Question:

Hi ROFF people, I heard that there was an article, recently, in here, about a fly to catch mullet. But I can’t find it !! Can anybody please help me. I live in holland and know some places where there are really thousands of big mullets. I can approche them very good, ( and cast my fly betwen them ) but NEVER EVER was able to catch one. I can cleary see, that they are feeding ! Thanks in advance, Hans Bock.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi ROFF people, I heard that there was an article, recently, in here, about a fly to catch mullet. But I can’t find it !! Can anybody please help me. I live in holland and know some places where there are really thousands of big mullets. I can approche them very good, ( and cast my fly betwen them ) but NEVER EVER was able to catch one. I can cleary see, that they are feeding ! Thanks in advance, Hans Bock.

You can try these; http://www.mikeladle.com/tackle/tackle3.html http://globalflyfisher.com/global/denmark/species/mullet.html http://www.hartflyfishing.demon.co.uk/mullet_fishing.html TL MC

Response:

I had this strange vision of you casting for Randy Johnson… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi ROFF people, I heard that there was an article, recently, in here, about a fly to catch mullet. But I can’t find it !! Can anybody please help me. I live in holland and know some places where there are really thousands of big mullets. I can approche them very good, ( and cast my fly betwen them ) but NEVER EVER was able to catch one. I can cleary see, that they are feeding ! Thanks in advance, Hans Bock.

– Jeff, TASCAM Guy:  "Dude, you’re on rec.audio.pro…everyone hates everything."

Response:

Try this http://makeashorterlink.com/?Z2C4323F I caught a mullet back in February and hooked several more but could not land them.  I was using 8 lb tippet.  The one I caught was 5 lbs (2.3 kg) and most of the fish that I saw were about the same size.  I was fishing in heavy surf and the fish were using the waves to their advantage.  The fish I managed to land made 15 runs before I finally dragged it onto shore with the help of a big wave.  It is not typical to catch mullet using any sort of means around this area.  However, on that particular day they were actively chasing a school of smelt.  There are many species of small fish that are called smelt so I am quite sure that smelt that you might be familiar with are not the same fish.  However, mullet is a mullet.  Some mullet species are larger than others but all of them (in the literature that I have seen) are closely related.  Although the smelt were silvery and typically 5 inches long, the mullet definitely seemed to like a small brownish fly.  My friend hooked one on a brown marabou fly but the fish broke off.  He couldn’t hook any more after that and he had no more brown flies.  I kept hooking and losing fish so finally I offered him one of my flies (which was a combination of burnt-orange llama and black & red squirrel tail).  So the color definitely seemed to be the trigger (as both of our flies were tied with similar materials and similar styles).  It may be that this color closely imitates the color of seaweed in this area. Even though the mullet were chasing baitfish, I think that a kelp imitation was able to trigger a response while they were in a mood to actively feed.  Good luck. Mu

Response:

http://anglersnet.co.uk/images/articles/leon24.jpg Just to whet your appetite! TL MC

Response:

Question:

.  You post right here and now what plagiarism you’re talking about? Anything I wrote I have permission from that author or poster to pass on or use.  All I need is a verification in my records.

But, George, you put your own copyright on it and gave no author credit.  You can not, legally or morally, copyright someone else’s work in your own name.   — rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless remove invalid or hit reply to email. Though I’m very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Response:

Anything I wrote I have permission from that author or poster to pass on or use.

That charming little anecdote is listed on hundreds of web sites.   Which one is the "real" one?   I’d be surprised if you could even name the author, much less produce credible verification of permission. Joe F.

Response:

Michael Hegerfeld writes: Seriously everyone, what’s with this Gehrke fellow? He is obviously as crazy as a loon and needs to be locked away in a rubber room.

Look up "bi-polar disease".   Dave

Response:

Michael Hegerfeld writes: Seriously everyone, what’s with this Gehrke fellow? He is obviously as crazy as a loon and needs to be locked away in a rubber room. Look up "bi-polar disease". Dave

LOL, good one Pirate.  Hang around Michael, you will learn to sort the wheat from the chaff, and Gherke comes and goes (we all wish he’d go, but that’s another matter)  Just put him in your bozo filter.  There *is* a lot to learn from this bunch and it would be a shame to leave because of him.  If you do leave, *he* wins and we can’t have that, now can we?  Stick around and learn from some of the best ff’rs around. Frank Church in Elkhart, IN

Response:

All right! Who lied? I was promised that "I" would be the only asshole here. Drew

Response:

How about the innocent people who’s drinks have been spiked with LSD and who were innocent, law abiding citizens who ended up shot by power crazed cops? 30 November, 1996

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What the hell are you talking about?  LaCourse?  This lying of yours is another example of your childish behavior.  You post right here and now what plagiarism you’re talking about?  I’ve never belonged to alt.playwriters in my life.  Kiss my royal behind you chicksucker! Anything I wrote I have permission from that author or poster to pass on or use.  All I need is a verification in my records.  You, on the other hand, are nothing more then a cowardly twit.  Go stick your head in a sack and go back to breathing your glue. You dumb m.fr’

Response:

   Aw hell George, Louie is just jealous because the voices only talk to you.   What the hell are you talking about?  LaCourse?  This lying of yours is   another example of your childish behavior.  You post right here and now   what plagiarism you’re talking about?  I’ve never belonged to   alt.playwriters in my life.  Kiss my royal behind you chicksucker!     Anything I wrote I have permission from that author or poster to pass on   or use.  All I need is a verification in my records.  You, on the other   hand, are nothing more then a cowardly twit.  Go stick your head in a   sack and go back to breathing your glue.     You dumb m.fr’  

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Michael Hegerfeld writes: Seriously everyone, what’s with this Gehrke fellow? He is obviously as crazy as a loon and needs to be locked away in a rubber room. Look up "bi-polar disease". Dave LOL, good one Pirate.  Hang around Michael, you will learn to sort the wheat from the chaff, and Gherke comes and goes (we all wish he’d go, but that’s another matter)  Just put him in your bozo filter.  There *is* a lot to learn from this bunch and it would be a shame to leave because of him.  If you do leave, *he* wins and we can’t have that, now can we?  Stick around and learn from some of the best ff’rs around.

I don’t think it’s bi-polar.  I’ve known several bi-polars.  While they have all been assholes, they’re only like him when they’re in manic phase.  Megalomania might be more like it.  And it can’t be schizophrenia, because I’e liked almost all the schizos I’ve met (except some of the extremely unhappy ones and the way too paranoid ones, both of which are, in my experience, rather rare.).   Borderline Personality Disorder is a possibility, too.   — rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless remove invalid or hit reply to email. Though I’m very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Response:

"Ridge Hall computer assistance; may I help you?" "Yes, well, I’m having trouble with WordPerfect." "What sort of trouble?" "Well, I was just typing along, and all of a sudden the words went away." "Went away?" "They disappeared." "Hmm. So what does your screen look like now?" "Nothing." "Nothing?" "It’s blank; it won’t accept anything when I type." "Are you still in WordPerfect, or did you get out?" "How do I tell?" "Can you see the C: prompt on the screen?" "What’s a sea-prompt?" "Never mind, can you move your cursor around the screen?" "There isn’t any cursor: I told you, it won’t accept anything I type." "Does your monitor have a power indicator?" "What’s a monitor?" "It’s the thing with the screen on it that looks like a TV. Does it have a little light that tells you when it’s on?" "I don’t know." "Well, then look on the back of the monitor and find where the power cord goes into it. Can you see that?" "Yes, I think so." "Great. Follow the cord to the plug, and tell me if it’s plugged into the wall." "Yes, it is." "When you were behind the monitor, did you notice that there were two cables plugged into the back of it, not just one?" "No." "Well, there are. I need you to look back there again and find the other cable." "Okay, here it is." "Follow it for me, and tell m e if it’s plugged securely into the back of your computer." "I can’t reach." "Uh huh. Well, can you see if it is?" "No." "Even if you maybe put your knee on something and lean way over?" "Oh, it’s not because I don’t have the right angle –it’s because it’s dark." "Dark?" "Yes, the office light is off, and the only light I have is coming in from the window." "Well, turn on the office light then." "I can’t." "No? Why not?" "Because there’s a power failure." "A power…A power failure? Aha! Okay, we’ve got it licked now. Do you still have the boxes and manuals and packing stuff your computer came in?" "Well, yes, I keep them in the closet." "Good. Go get them, and unplug your system and pack it up just like it was when you got it. Then take it back to the store you bought it from." "Really? Is it that bad?" "Yes, I’m afraid it is." "Well, all right then, I suppose. What do I tell them?" "Tell them you’re too stupid to own a computer — George Gehrke  

Question:

Anyone know where is the best fishing place in Vancouver?

Response:

Anyone know where is the best fishing place in Vancouver?

Deer Lake and Pacific Ocean donaldduck

Response:

Anyone know where is the best fishing place in Vancouver?

Deer Lake and Pacific Ocean. donaldduck

Response:

Granville Island Market

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone know where is the best fishing place in Vancouver? Deer Lake and Pacific Ocean donaldduck

Response:

Anyone know where is the best fishing place in Vancouver?

Vancouver Island renee

Response:

http://www.predatorcharters.com http://www.thefishingclub.com/ http://www.guidebc.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone know where is the best fishing place in Vancouver? Deer Lake and Pacific Ocean. donaldduck

Response:

Try Fred’s Fishing Adventures out of Chilliwack.  Outstanding for Sturgeon, Salmon and Steelhead.  Fished with him last Sunday, great trip.  Fly fishing for Pinks a little later in the summer should be outstanding!!! http://www.freds-bc.com/ — <*))))< Paul Phillips Director of Operations Fintastic Fish Mounts http://www.fintastic.com/ spam block x

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone know where is the best fishing place in Vancouver?

Response:

Question:

Michael,    I think this group has determined that fly size is more important than color.  Of course presentation is important but that is not a characteristic of the fly. Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What do you think??   We need a good, ON-TOPIC bloodbath on this group, and we haven’t had one in quite a while. Michael Roegner

Response:

Dave,    I would rather have a glass of beer.  We know that colors darken when wet, and that the fish is usually looking at a back lighted object.  We are not certain what light spectrum the fish sees.  The impression the fly makes when sitting on the water or trapped bubbles on a rising insect are probably more important than the exact shade of the insect.  The more you know about the insect the more likely you are to tie a good imitation.  The beer is handy for sipping while tying.  The real test of the fly will come when you present it to the fish. Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I guess that from a lot of posts on here lately (thanks for all the great info) that I should include a glass of water at my bench when I tie. And a specimen of the fly itself. Dave

Response:

I would use a photo, the colors of bugs disappear in minutes after death.   I guess that from a lot of posts on here lately (thanks for all the great info) that I should include a glass of water at my bench when I tie. And a specimen of the fly itself. Dave "M

Harry Mason www.Troutflies.com

Response:

Dale –         You’re not nuts at all, although I suspect that the reason why they turn the color of the rocks doesn’t really derive from the "rocks they eat".  

I was wondering if anyone would else would comment on this. This conjured up the image of some robotic like insects chewing up rocks.           That having been said – I’m going to drop a pretty major bombshell here in the hopes of sparking some discussion.  I have found that precise pattern, precise coloration, etc., is generally pointless in most (if not all) flyfishing.   What I’ve generally found is that just about ANY fairly representative pattern will catch as many, and as large, fish as the most perfectly colored, precisely matched pattern.  

I’ve brought this topic up in the past and not much interest was generated. In fact one poster said he couldn’t think of anything more boring. (I guess talking about someone’s underwear etc. has more interest to this person) I pretty much agree with you. Presentation is where it’s at. Fly size however, is VERY important. Pattern type is next i.e.. up wing, down wing, emerger, etc. Color is not very important. An exception to this is with heavily fished C&R waters, especially in tailwaters with their limited range of insect types. Some fish in these places can become hyperselective to pattern and color. This is just one of the peculiarities these fish exhibit.         What does make a difference?   Presentation is a major issue, being careful not to spook the fish,  observation of their feeding patterns,  ability to spot fish, knowledge of where they’re likely to hold, and patience.   If you cover those items, you’ll usually find that you can catch fish just fine with a pattern that doesn’t do such a precise job of matching the naturals.

My advice to new anglers is to spend less time on changing flies and more time on making a good presentation. Stalk a fish to get closer, change position, make more or different mends, change tippet length or size, add or remove weight etc. etc. etc. Correct presentation is a very broad and complex topic. It’s the most difficult of the skills in flyfishing.         I have a theory about all this – the myth that you have to match the naturals so precisely was created primarily to catch FISHERMEN rather than FISH.  And it has worked well, primarily because its always easier to tell yourself that "If I only had color X, or pattern Y, I’d be catching fish"  than it is to recognize that your own skills are what need improvement.

I also think that searching for the "perfect" fly is futile. I’ve never run into the situation where there was a "right" fly although some other posters here swear they have been in this situation. I fish mainly a range of different styles of flies in a range of sizes rather than specific patterns. I probably use about 4 different styles 90% of the time. Willi

Response:

Some may think I’m nuts about this also, but I think some of the color of the bugs is determined by the color of rocks they eat.

Bugs eat rocks? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Good points Ernie and Harry, and some of the best looking dry fly’s on the water IMHO that I tie are Compara-dun’s out of "Compara-hatch" booklet by Caucci/Nasatsi. Easier to tie than the traditional ones for me, what is the consensus on compare vs. traditional here, besides the traditional might be better on slower water?

I like Compara dun style better for slower water.  I especially like them using CDC for the wing instead of deer. It’s my usual choice for mayfly feeding fish on flat water. They can also be changed to an emerger at streamside by flattening the wing along the back.  You can fish them dry, damp or wet. Versital fly. Willi

Response:

How many feathers do you use for the wing ? What kind of tailing, now that I’m ask a million questions.;-)   I like this pattern as well but it floats for only a short period, in my experence. I think the tailing is very important  with slow water bugs and CDC. I like Compara dun style better for slower water.  I especially like them using CDC for the wing instead of deer. It’s my usual choice for mayfly feeding fish on flat water. They can also be changed to an emerger at streamside by flattening the wing along the back.  You can fish them dry, damp or wet. Versital fly. Willi

Harry Mason www.Troutflies.com

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – On those that I’ve examined, the thorax is sort of a cream with dun mixed in and the abdomen is an olive with rust and the wings definitely a medium to dark dun. Like I’ve always said, nothing in nature is monotone… it’s always a mixture of colors and that’s why the best dubbing is blended from different materials and colors.  You never get exact matches and day-to-day, you’ll find the naturals in differing shades, depending on the weather, natural lighting conditions, time of day they hatch and other variables. Also keep in mind, the color of your imitation is influenced by reflected light, how wet the materials get and other factors as well, so what comes off the vise is likely to look drastically different when it’s on the water….. and especailly when it’s viewed from beneath the water by a creature with a highly different vision system. Others? Larry #:)#

______  You make an excellent point Larry and its the same one I’ve offered for many years.  The wise fly tier will always "test-dress" a bit of sample dubbing or a fly at the fly tying bench with the fly dressing of their choice.  There is no sense in having a Light Cahill turning into a Dark Cahill after it gets wet beyond the desired shade required.  Of course my favorite choice shows the shade changes perfectly because it duplicates how the fly will look on the water to a finicky trout, and lets face it, there are more and more finicky, experienced, trout then ever before. Again Larry, I agree with you.  If it isn’t perfect at the bench, it won’t be perfect astream. Mr.G.

Response:

Some may think I’m nuts about this also, but I think some of the color of the bugs is determined by the color of rocks they eat. For an example if the rocks are primaily granite their main color might take on a light pink effect as well as all the other colors. Big Dale

Response:

Dale –         You’re not nuts at all, although I suspect that the reason why they turn the color of the rocks doesn’t really derive from the "rocks they eat".   I would expect that it has more to do with protective coloration – an insect has a much better chance of surviving to reproduce if their predators can’t pick them out against the background colors.         That having been said – I’m going to drop a pretty major bombshell here in the hopes of sparking some discussion.  I have found that precise pattern, precise coloration, etc., is generally pointless in most (if not all) flyfishing.   What I’ve generally found is that just about ANY fairly representative pattern will catch as many, and as large, fish as the most perfectly colored, precisely matched pattern.  This is an area of special interest for me, and I frequently test it by switching patterns to a off-color or more general pattern while my buddies obsess on "matching the hatch".   There doesn’t seem to be any difference at all.             What does make a difference?   Presentation is a major issue, being careful not to spook the fish,  observation of their feeding patterns,  ability to spot fish, knowledge of where they’re likely to hold, and patience.   If you cover those items, you’ll usually find that you can catch fish just fine with a pattern that doesn’t do such a precise job of matching the naturals.         I have a theory about all this – the myth that you have to match the naturals so precisely was created primarily to catch FISHERMEN rather than FISH.  And it has worked well, primarily because its always easier to tell yourself that "If I only had color X, or pattern Y, I’d be catching fish"  than it is to recognize that your own skills are what need improvement.           What do you think??   We need a good, ON-TOPIC bloodbath on this group, and we haven’t had one in quite a while.                                         Michael Roegner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Some may think I’m nuts about this also, but I think some of the color of the bugs is determined by the color of rocks they eat. For an example if the rocks are primaily granite their main color might take on a light pink effect as well as all the other colors. Big Dale

Response:

…         What do you think??  

I’ll pull out the weasel words on this one. While I tend to agree most of the time, I’ve been in situations, rarely, where a precise match would catch fish and no other fly would. I don’t remember the name of the stream but it’s just outside Jackson, WY. One of the toughest places I’ve ever fished. They were taking Callibaetis spinners and that was IT. Another data point is fishing Joe’s Hoppers on Slough Creek. So long as the fly was whole I had no trouble catching those big, dumb cutts but as soon as the turkey wing got just the least bit separated it was like turning off the lights. Put on a new hopper and the lights come back on. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

I guess that from a lot of posts on here lately (thanks for all the great info) that I should include a glass of water at my bench when I tie. And a specimen of the fly itself. Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – On those that I’ve examined, the thorax is sort of a cream with dun mixed in and the abdomen is an olive with rust and the wings definitely a medium to dark dun. Like I’ve always said, nothing in nature is monotone… it’s always a mixture of colors and that’s why the best dubbing is blended from different materials and colors.  You never get exact matches and day-to-day, you’ll find the naturals in differing shades, depending on the weather, natural lighting conditions, time of day they hatch and other variables. Also keep in mind, the color of your imitation is influenced by reflected light, how wet the materials get and other factors as well, so what comes off the vise is likely to look drastically different when it’s on the water….. and especailly when it’s viewed from beneath the water by a creature with a highly different vision system. Others? Larry #:)# ______  You make an excellent point Larry and its the same one I’ve offered for many years.  The wise fly tier will always "test-dress" a bit of sample dubbing or a fly at the fly tying bench with the fly dressing of their choice.  There is no sense in having a Light Cahill turning into a Dark Cahill after it gets wet beyond the desired shade required.  Of course my favorite choice shows the shade changes perfectly because it duplicates how the fly will look on the water to a finicky trout, and lets face it, there are more and more finicky, experienced, trout then ever before. Again Larry, I agree with you.  If it isn’t perfect at the bench, it won’t be perfect astream. Mr.G.

Response:

Good points Ernie and Harry, and some of the best looking dry fly’s on the water IMHO that I tie are Compara-dun’s out of "Compara-hatch" booklet by Caucci/Nasatsi. Easier to tie than the traditional ones for me, what is the consensus on compare vs. traditional here, besides the traditional might be better on slower water? Dave (Harry great photo’s on your site) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would use a photo, the colors of bugs disappear in minutes after death. I guess that from a lot of posts on here lately (thanks for all the great info) that I should include a glass of water at my bench when I tie. And a specimen of the fly itself. Dave "M Harry Mason www.Troutflies.com

Response:

On those that I’ve examined, the thorax is sort of a cream with dun mixed in and the abdomen is an olive with rust and the wings definitely a medium to dark dun. Like I’ve always said, nothing in nature is monotone… it’s always a mixture of colors and that’s why the best dubbing is blended from different materials and colors.  You never get exact matches and day-to-day, you’ll find the naturals in differing shades, depending on the weather, natural lighting conditions, time of day they hatch and other variables. Also keep in mind, the color of your imitation is influenced by reflected light, how wet the materials get and other factors as well, so what comes off the vise is likely to look drastically different when it’s on the water….. and especailly when it’s viewed from beneath the water by a creature with a highly different vision system. Others? Larry #:)#

Response:

______  Dear Pete: I suppose, one of the main flies in my arsenal is indeed various sizes of the "Blue Winged Olive Dun."  In fact, the majority of my finest flies that I tie are from the exact patterns as described in Ernie Scwiebert’s masterful work, "Matching The Hatch."  I personally think no fly fisherman would find themselves wanting on any stream in the United States if he tied up a half dozen of every fly in this magnificent book.  It is the base of my entire fly collection that I carry in my vest for the last 44 years! The Blue Winged Olive Duns along with the Iron Duns are perhaps the mainstay of a starting line on most streams, early in the season, especially the Iron Blue Dun on a river such as the Frying Pan, Gunnison, Blue River, Fire Hole, and the list goes on.  The Blue Winged Olive Dun has a total range across the United States from New York State, westward beyond Montana. I would suggest that these ‘Steak and Potato’ flies be best researched and tied out of the classic volume I have just mentioned.  I don’t think any fly fisherman could do better regarding descriptions and the basic history of some of the finest flies used on the American Continent. To wit:  Thank You Mr. Ernie Schwiebert. Mr. G.

Response:

Funny – we’re using the same name for different insects. In Europe the Blue Winged Olive is the anglers name for the Ephemerella ignita. From May to September – don’t leave home without it! Some nice pics at: http://www.fishing-in-wales.co.uk/wildlife/insects/upwing/bwolive.htm Herman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … From what I understand, BWO is a fisherman’s term that describes a number of different species of mayflies. … Bluewinged Olive is the fishermen’s name for the subimago of several Baetis spp. and Pseudocloeon spp. and the subimago Ephemerella flavilinea. What I call "the little grey ones". — Ken Fortenberry

–         Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

[snip] Also keep in mind, the color of your imitation is influenced by reflected light, how wet the materials get and other factors as well, so what comes off the vise is likely to look drastically different when it’s on the water….. and especailly when it’s viewed from beneath the water by a creature with a highly different vision system.

Is he talking about Louie?

Response:

Excellent book and excellent fly.  Perfect for Colorado and New Mexico streams. Well said, Mr. G DP – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ______  Dear Pete: I suppose, one of the main flies in my arsenal is indeed various sizes of the "Blue Winged Olive Dun."  In fact, the majority of my finest flies that I tie are from the exact patterns as described in Ernie Scwiebert’s masterful work, "Matching The Hatch."  I personally think no fly fisherman would find themselves wanting on any stream in the United States if he tied up a half dozen of every fly in this magnificent book.  It is the base of my entire fly collection that I carry in my vest for the last 44 years! The Blue Winged Olive Duns along with the Iron Duns are perhaps the mainstay of a starting line on most streams, early in the season, especially the Iron Blue Dun on a river such as the Frying Pan, Gunnison, Blue River, Fire Hole, and the list goes on.  The Blue Winged Olive Dun has a total range across the United States from New York State, westward beyond Montana. I would suggest that these ‘Steak and Potato’ flies be best researched and tied out of the classic volume I have just mentioned.  I don’t think any fly fisherman could do better regarding descriptions and the basic history of some of the finest flies used on the American Continent. To wit:  Thank You Mr. Ernie Schwiebert. Mr. G.

Response:

Aside from the "bad weather fly" part (must be a western thing – we get ‘em all the way up through Maine even on really nice days)

It might be an altitude/sun thing ie. sun more intense at higher altitude. Out West cloud cover really makes a difference. They will hatch out on sunny days but much better with cloud cover.  If you’re on the stream on a sunny day and you get a period of cloud cover, even for a relatively short period of time, the hatch intensifies and the fish will start feeding.  When the sun comes out the whole thing stops. I’ve been on the river during partly cloudy days and have see this cycle repeated all day long. Willi

Response:

Hi Guys, I was on the Lower Kings River the other day and I picked up what was defined to me as a BWO or blue wing olive.  This was the first actual specimen I had ever seen.  Upon close examination, the thorax showed up to be what I would describe as a light yellowish olive or even a very light lime green color.  The wings were the standard gray which I believe is also called dun color. I tied up a few in the same color (from memory) using the parachute style, and they came out pretty nice after a few tries.  In speaking with a bud regarding this fly, he stated that he thought the thorax is often other colors such as gray, bluish or yellow.  Not that I doubt him, but I have not found any materials which show me other variations of the blue wing olive. I don’t see blue wing yellows or blue wing grays either. <g Any thoughts on this topic? Pete

Response:

BWO’s do vary in the color of the body as well as the shade of gray of the wing. They also vary in size. On a given river, these differences are usually seasonal. As a whole they tend to get smaller as the season goes on. In the Spring, they will be of a size 16 or 18. By late Fall and Winter they will be down to a 20 or 22. Different watersheds also have different BWO’s. From what I understand, BWO is a fisherman’s term that describes a number of different species of mayflies. The commonality is a gray wing and a body with some olive tones in it. The body often has other colors in it including: gray, yellow, rust, brown. cream etc. When tying them I generally blend an olive with several other colors. Most of the time, I prefer a parachute or paradun style. BWO’s are a "bad weather" fly.  They hatch heaviest on overcast days. In the Rockies, the BWO’s are the most consistent Mayfly.  They will hatch every month, even in mid Winter during a warm spell. Just before runoff, there are some very strong hatches on cloudy days that provide some excellent surface fishing. The hatches also seem to get stronger again in the Fall. Most of the time, I prefer a parachute or paradun style. Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Guys, I was on the Lower Kings River the other day and I picked up what was defined to me as a BWO or blue wing olive.  This was the first actual specimen I had ever seen.  Upon close examination, the thorax showed up to be what I would describe as a light yellowish olive or even a very light lime green color.  The wings were the standard gray which I believe is also called dun color. I tied up a few in the same color (from memory) using the parachute style, and they came out pretty nice after a few tries.  In speaking with a bud regarding this fly, he stated that he thought the thorax is often other colors such as gray, bluish or yellow.  Not that I doubt him, but I have not found any materials which show me other variations of the blue wing olive. I don’t see blue wing yellows or blue wing grays either. <g Any thoughts on this topic? Pete

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And I always thought it meant "Budwiser With Onionrings" I guess I’ll have more room in my vest next time out for flies Dave ( the book is on my wish list, thanks George) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ______  Dear Pete: I suppose, one of the main flies in my arsenal is indeed various sizes of the "Blue Winged Olive Dun."  In fact, the majority of my finest flies that I tie are from the exact patterns as described in Ernie Scwiebert’s masterful work, "Matching The Hatch."  I personally think no fly fisherman would find themselves wanting on any stream in the United States if he tied up a half dozen of every fly in this magnificent book.  It is the base of my entire fly collection that I carry in my vest for the last 44 years! The Blue Winged Olive Duns along with the Iron Duns are perhaps the mainstay of a starting line on most streams, early in the season, especially the Iron Blue Dun on a river such as the Frying Pan, Gunnison, Blue River, Fire Hole, and the list goes on.  The Blue Winged Olive Dun has a total range across the United States from New York State, westward beyond Montana. I would suggest that these ‘Steak and Potato’ flies be best researched and tied out of the classic volume I have just mentioned.  I don’t think any fly fisherman could do better regarding descriptions and the basic history of some of the finest flies used on the American Continent. To wit:  Thank You Mr. Ernie Schwiebert. Mr. G.

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I was told by an entomologist/flyfisherman that there were twenty different species called BWO that he was aware of. He felt that there probably was really close to a hundred. Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … From what I understand, BWO is a fisherman’s term that describes a number of different species of mayflies. … Bluewinged Olive is the fishermen’s name for the subimago of several Baetis spp. and Pseudocloeon spp. and the subimago Ephemerella flavilinea. What I call "the little grey ones". — Ken Fortenberry

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – BWO’s do vary in the color of the body as well as the shade of gray of the wing. They also vary in size. On a given river, these differences are usually seasonal. As a whole they tend to get smaller as the season goes on. In the Spring, they will be of a size 16 or 18. By late Fall and Winter they will be down to a 20 or 22. Different watersheds also have different BWO’s. From what I understand, BWO is a fisherman’s term that describes a number of different species of mayflies. The commonality is a gray wing and a body with some olive tones in it. The body often has other colors in it including: gray, yellow, rust, brown. cream etc. When tying them I generally blend an olive with several other colors. Most of the time, I prefer a parachute or paradun style. BWO’s are a "bad weather" fly.  They hatch heaviest on overcast days. In the Rockies, the BWO’s are the most consistent Mayfly.  They will hatch every month, even in mid Winter during a warm spell. Just before runoff, there are some very strong hatches on cloudy days that provide some excellent surface fishing. The hatches also seem to get stronger again in the Fall. Most of the time, I prefer a parachute or paradun style.

Aside from the "bad weather fly" part (must be a western thing – we get ‘em all the way up through Maine even on really nice days) you provided some solid information on this pattern, William. I don’t have enough fingers and toes to count all the body color variations I’ve seen used on BWOs – though the wings, hackles, and tails are nearly always a medium blue dun (and I wouldn’t tie ‘em with anything else). Anyone making the Y2K Maine Conclave should have a bunch of these at the ready, size 16-20 (particularly 18-20)… /daytripper

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… From what I understand, BWO is a fisherman’s term that describes a number of different species of mayflies. …

Bluewinged Olive is the fishermen’s name for the subimago of several Baetis spp. and Pseudocloeon spp. and the subimago Ephemerella flavilinea. What I call "the little grey ones". — Ken Fortenberry

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Question:

Jim W. http://www.telusplanet.net/public/mechanic – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Absolutely amazing.  I checked the newsgroups using "test" and got 411 hits.  Using "alt.test" I got the following.  And you come here to do your "test"?  That is just amazing. alt.test alt.test.a alt.test.abc.xyz.lmn alt.test.big.al alt.test.binaries alt.test.cjc alt.test.control-message alt.test.d alt.test.dana alt.test.ds alt.test.fest alt.test.fishing   alt.test.flyfishing alt.test.group alt.test.hello-world alt.test.hulabaloo alt.test.ignore.yes.its.that.easy alt.test.io alt.test.mis3 alt.test.my.new   alt.test.not-r alt.test.obi-wan alt.test.one alt.test.only alt.test.test   alt.test.testing alt.test.test2 alt.test.tickle alt.test.two alt.test.wombat alt.test.yer.posts alt.test.z Never underestimate stupid people in large groups. Read the rec.woodworking FAQ at:  http://www.robson.org/woodfaq/ (It explains SWMBO, its origin; where to get free plans)

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Question:

I purchased a pair of GoreTex waders a couple years ago from LL Bean. The price was much more reasonable than some, and the Bean service is excellent. I haven’t exposed them to a great degree of abuse, but the material appears quite durable. They are well made, double thickness at the knees. The suspenders are adequate, but could be sturdier. John Nesselrode Shawnee, KS

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I bought a pair of the Clearwater waders.  I fished in the early season (read cold) here in Minnesota and found that they erformed very well with fleece pants underneath.  They are truly awsome on a 80 degree day with 80% humidity.  However, after around 65 days on the water the seam tape on both feet started to come off.  Although they never leaked, I took them to my Orvis dealer as I was going to Montana and didn’t want them to start leaking.  I walked out with a new pair for free, now that’s service.   Anyway, the new pair has been fine so far.  I think I am harder on my gear than most.  I fish 3-4 times a week on small streams and am often crashing through brush in the dark with no flashlight. Long Live Hay Creek MikeH

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They’re great!!!

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I remember seeing a thread about Gore-Tex waders a while back. Would anyone be willing to put forth their $.02 again, for I’m interested in these waders. Thanks, — Don Pisinski C.C.S. Digital Equipment Corporation (When replying remove the "x" from the e-mail address) My opinions are not reflective of the opinions of my employer, my  cat, dog, or goldfish.

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Don, I finally broke down and got some goretex waders but not before an outfitter/shop did me a huge favor.  They let me try out the Clearwater and Bulletproof waders by Orvis and I was stoked.  Then they ruined me by letting me try out the Simms Guide models.  The Simms’s were the most comfortable and the quietest in my experience (fishing them each for a day in warm temps and cold water) but at $350.00, I balked.  My wife, in a rare display of toy-encouragement, thought that since I believed they were the ones to get and I didn’t come out of them all stinky and wet, said go ahead.  I can’t comment on their long term wear and tear, others will though, but I think it was a good decision for me even though I had to use money from the "Bamboo savings". Try them out if you can and I must say that the Clearwaters color is the most pleasant if only because EVERY outdoors-wear maker uses sage or light green/olives in all their clothes.(Fashion tip courtesy the beautiful Stephanie). Good Luck, Bob

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I remember seeing a thread about Gore-Tex waders a while back. Would anyone be willing to put forth their $.02 again, for I’m interested in these waders. Thanks, — Don Pisinski C.C.S. Digital Equipment Corporation (When replying remove the "x" from the e-mail address) My opinions are not reflective of the opinions of my employer, my  cat, dog, or goldfish.

Hi Don I’ve been guiding and fishing in Simms GoreTex waders for several years now and find they are great. The comfort of being able to fish in light weight breathable waders is one of the nicest things I’ve done for myself in years. The downside of any of these waders is minute pin holes that wild roses, nettles, thistles, etc can cause in the membrane of the waders. I just accept this will happen and patch the waders when needed. It’ real simple to do and a minor inconvienience when compared to the comfort. Take care & … — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Catalog,Tips & Tricks, Fishing Reports, & NeverSink at: http://www.btsflyfishing.com

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I remember seeing a thread about Gore-Tex waders a while back. Would anyone be willing to put forth their $.02 again, for I’m interested in these waders. Thanks,

Don, I recently bought a pair of Orvis 3mm neoprenes to fish the cold waters of Labrador.  When I got there, all the guides were wearing Orvis’ Gore-tex $300 + waders.  This was their 2nd or 3rd year with them, and they were wearing like stainless steel.  The guides were in them from 8 in the morning til 6 every day.  They said that the neoprenes they used to wear wore out too quickly.  They swore by the Gore-tex. Upon my return, I went to my Orvis dealer and jokingly told him that I had purchased the wrong waders — I should have bought the Gore-tex.  Long story short — he took back the 3mm neoprenes and I paid the difference (<$100) for the Gore-tex.  Now, *that’s* what I call a guarantee!!  BTW, the Gore-tex are famulous in cold water or warm air. Dave L.

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Question:

Anyone ever rigged a dropper for smallmouth? For example, a humpy with a shenk’s minnow on a dropper. Is this a dumb idea? What other combinations might you suggest?

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Anyone ever rigged a dropper for smallmouth? For example, a humpy with a shenk’s minnow on a dropper. Is this a dumb idea? What other combinations might you suggest?

A combination of a #8 or #10 muddler, a #8 or #10 Wooly Bugger, and a sneaky little orange #10 or #12 Teeny Nymph dangling off the rear is always a reliable combo for lots of things, smallmouth included.   Early spring with higher than normal water flows, use a short sinking tip or, do like I do and cheat with a small split shot a couple of feet ahead of the first fly.  Let it drift more or less naturally.  No need to strip it.  The fish will find it. As the water runs off and clears up towards early summertime levels, go a size or two smaller on the flies and eliminate the extra weight. Best Regards,          Trent Roberson            Rx F Fish  For Your Good Health, Fly Fish URL=http://www.xnet.com/~rxffish

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Question:

How and where should you put a strike indicator. thanks

J.P., your request will probably cause lots of debate as a lot of flyfisherman do not consider the use of a strike indicator to be sporting.  These types look at the end of their fly line for any indication of a strike.  They are in effect using their fly lines as strike indicators. Most authorities estimate that the majority of strikes are missed if strike indicators are not used.  I usually place my strike indicator about 2-3 times the water depth up from the fly.  I also prefer the ball type and peg it with a toothpick.  There are all types of indicators on the market that will twist onto the leader.  This is not bobber fishing as the fly is not suspended directly below the strike indicator.  You merely watch the indicator and strike when it moves "funny".  It takes experience.  Hope this helps.

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How and where should you put a strike indicator. thanks

Somewhere between the tip of your fly line and your fly. Where exactly is dependent on e.g. on the depth you are fishing. The indicator should be at least 2-3 times the water depth you are fishing. Under conditions where fish are extremely spoky even more, often directly in front of the fly line, in fast water closer to the fly will show you more strikes. Hope that helps                  Thomas — JP Dorris Hunting and Fishing it’s all so relaxing

– Thomas Urbig

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How and where should you put a strike indicator. thanks — JP Dorris Hunting and Fishing it’s all so relaxing

Fred may be right, in a way.  But, the norm is to put it one and one half times a far above the fly as the water you’re fishing is deep.  In other words, six feet up the leader if the water is four feet deep. Tight Lines, Charley

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How and where should you put a strike indicator. thanks — JP Dorris Hunting and Fishing it’s all so relaxing

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How and where should you put a strike indicator. thanks — JP Dorris Hunting and Fishing it’s all so relaxing

Back on the shelf at Walmart with the rest of the red and white bobbers.   Sorry, couldn’t resist the take. Best, Fred Rickson

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How and where should you put a strike indicator. thanks — JP Dorris Hunting and Fishing it’s all so relaxing

JP, I used to pride myself on being able to sense when a trout had picked up my nymph and never used one…. as age set in and reflexes slowed, and eyesight dimmed, I use a very small piece of yarn or other about 4 to 8 feet above the nymph on the leader, especially in medium to slow water. Don’t use one in fast water as it drowns and also is not needed, as the strike is evident without it. Tightlines, Alan E. Hoover Anglers’ Rest Powhatan, Va        *the trout teach many, lessons*

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How and where should you put a strike indicator. thanks — JP Dorris Hunting and Fishing it’s all so relaxing

The genral rule is twice the depth of the palce you are fishing.  A tip for you is to drive past the fly shop and go to a non-FFinf shop and pick up some pickerel (walleye) floats aka little corkies, worm floats etc for pennies a piece and then get some tooth picks .  Cut the tooth picks short and peg the indicator where you want it on your line by running the line through the center etc… Ian

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Question:

Who knows the secret formula for homemade floatant.  There was this guide in Montana who had some incredible stuff, but he wouldn’t tell me what the contents were.

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Who knows the secret formula for homemade floatant.  There was this guide in Montana who had some incredible stuff, but he wouldn’t tell me what the contents were.

I’ve found that disolving some bees wax in alcohol or naptha and then soaking your fly in it after you tie it will give it some excellent floating characteristics.  Don’t know about re-constituting the fly on the stream with the same stuff.  You can get bees wax by buying some ‘Sno Seal’, a product for waterproofing shoes.

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Who knows the secret formula for homemade floatant.  There was this guide in Montana who had some incredible stuff, but he wouldn’t tell me what the contents were.

Hi Ron For years I used unscented Albolene liquifying cleanser available in the beauty aids section of most drug stores.  A 6oz tub cost about $4.00.   The ingredients are listed as follows: Mineral oil, petrolatum, paraffin, ceresin, carotene Instead of buying all that stuff to make your own, why not just buy a many years supply alread mixed? Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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Question:

My brother wants to buy a Renzetti Traveller.  Should I try to talk him out of it?  If so, should he get a Regal or a more expensive Renzetti?

IMO, no, its a very good vice for the money unless of course he has the money to buy the more expensive vice. (Regals ARE nice) Then just on principal he should get the more exensive vice. After all this is fly fishing <vbseg. Right now he is suffering with one of those $13 Indian vises, so he does need a new vise.

Yes he does I am bothered a little bit by the fact that the Traveller’s rotation does not lock.

If you don’t want to use the rotary feature (I don’t), just tighten the rotary mechanism against the post and it will lock. Is this a real handicap, or am I rationalizing my fidelity to my

Thompson Pro? You’re just rationalizing Wayne Knight Marietta GA                                              

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writes: My brother wants to buy a Renzetti Traveller.  Should I try to talk him
out of it?  If so, should he get a Regal or a more expensive Renzetti? Right now he is suffering with one of those $13 Indian vises, so he does
need a new vise.
I am bothered a little bit by the fact that the Traveller’s rotation does
not lock.  Is this a real handicap, or am I rationalizing my fidelity to
my Thompson Pro?

I’ve used a Renzetti Traveller for more than three years now and love it! It should be noted that I got no real experience with any other vices, except a few Indian ones that didn’t last me long. I guess the locking could be an handicap, but I’ve never missed it for my tying (mostly saltwater and salmon). And it travels real well! Inge

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: It should be noted that I got no real experience with any other vices, : except a few Indian ones that didn’t last me long. A good vice should last a lifetime, I always say. (Sorry, couldn’t resist…) — BW Brad Williams —

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… I am bothered a little bit by the fact that the Traveller’s rotation does not lock.  Is this a real handicap, or am I rationalizing my fidelity to my Thompson Pro?

You can in fact, adjust the drag (to the point of locking) on the renzetti’s rotation using the 2 friction wheels. It’s not the most convenient system though. Personally, I use the traveller as my only vise. I do travel alot and often bring my tying case with me. The size and weight of the traveller are great for this. Otherwise, the traveller is a great vise for the money. Good jaws, large range and very functional, at 1/3rd the price of the rest of the renzetti line. rick

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I’ve used everything from the Thompson A vise through the Renzetti, HMH, and Regal, and I’ve ended up with the Regal…it’s an absolutely foolproof vise,provides resting place for the left hand, is perfectly rotatable, esp. if Ingeset it up horizontally, can be used right-= or left- handed, has interchangeable heads, and can be had for a reasonable price.  The other vises are wonderful, too, but nothing beats the Regal in my view (for what it’s worth), and I’ve been tying flies for more than fifty years. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: My brother wants to buy a Renzetti Traveller.  Should I try to talk him out of it?  If so, should he get a Regal or a more expensive Renzetti? Right now he is suffering with one of those $13 Indian vises, so he does need a new vise. I am bothered a little bit by the fact that the Traveller’s rotation does not lock.  Is this a real handicap, or am I rationalizing my fidelity to my Thompson Pro? I’ve used a Renzetti Traveller for more than three years now and love it! It should be noted that I got no real experience with any other vices, except a few Indian ones that didn’t last me long. I guess the locking could be an handicap, but I’ve never missed it for my tying (mostly saltwater and salmon). And it travels real well! Inge

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I have responded several times to questions about the Renzetti Traveller. It is wonderful.  The issue of the rotation not locking is a non issue. What makes the Renzetti system so nice is that the rotation of the hook shaft is central, due to the offset jaws.  Therefore, there is no tendency for the vice to rotate under load.  The other thing that is very nice about the Traveller that is not true of the higher priced Renzettis; it will rotate in both directions.  This is very useful if you tie ribbing reverse-wrapped over palmered hackle, such as in a Spey salmon or steelhead fly.   Crashjibe

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writes: My brother wants to buy a Renzetti Traveller.  Should I try to talk him out of it?  If so, should he get a Regal or a more expensive Renzetti? Right now he is suffering with one of those $13 Indian vises, so he does need a new vise.

I have both a Regal and a Renzetti Traveller. I love the Renzetti. It works very well, is very well designed, and weighs only 8 ounces! Steve Rosenblum

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I’m relatively new to tying.  After breaking my beginner $13 Indian vise, I bought a Renzetti Traveller.  I really like the Traveller–but admitedly I don’t have much experience for comparisons.   By the way, you CAN lock the rotation by increasing the drag sufficiently, although it’s not overwhelmingly convenient.

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The Traveller is the BEST vise for someone upgrading from a beginners-type vise. The price is right, and it will be years before he outgrows the vise and feels he needs a more sophisticated one. And then he will have one for traveling and one for the home base!!!

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My brother wants to buy a Renzetti Traveller.  Should I try to talk him out of it?  If so, should he get a Regal or a more expensive Renzetti? Right now he is suffering with one of those $13 Indian vises, so he does need a new vise. I am bothered a little bit by the fact that the Traveller’s rotation does not lock.  Is this a real handicap, or am I rationalizing my fidelity to my Thompson Pro? — Keep your stick on the ice.

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I really enjoy tying with mine, it’s all I need in a vise.  

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I really enjoy tying with mine, it’s all I need in a vise.  

Have you tried a Regal vise yet?  I have an Inex (their cheapest model) and I love it.  Sometimes I wish it were a rotary, but that’s only once and a while.  The spring loaded clamping method they use is really neat.  Just work the handle and insert a hook. One problem though.  If you don’t put the hook in enough, it may pop out and chip the tip of the jaws.  I did that twice then sent it back.  They fixed it for free, but made it clear that the next time I do that it will cost $25 for a new set of jaws.  Plus I have kids, so I have to find every hook I drop.  One flew over 10 feet out into the hall.  Thank goodness hooks are made out of ferrous (sp?) metal. I was wondering if other cam-type vises do this too?   A sunny day,      a box of midges,         and a wandering stream…   Man, this MUST be heaven!   <    Steve Kulpa    <<

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