Question:

Its been a very wet, cold spring so far, here in Wisconsin. But I finally got a chance to fish some moving water. With the river in town still running high I decided to check out some smaller water about 45 minutes from Merrill. The forecast called for rain and thunderstorms in the late afternoon so I left home about 10 am. Ended up on the little stream I have nicknamed the "Mayfly", due its very strong and dependable hatches. It too was running high but not as bad as the Prairie.  Got suited up, set up the rod and waded in. The water felt cold through my waders and checking the temp I found that it was 50deg.. There was a strong south wind which was mitigated somewhat by the surrounding streamside brush. After watching the surface for risers and seeing none I tied on a #12 Gold Ribbed H.E. nymph. The fishing was very slow. Only one very small brookie took,in what usually is a sure fire stretch of riffles and glides.  Working my way upstream I noticed a few #18 BWOs coming off but no rises. Checked the temp again and found it was up to 52deg. (Aren’t new toys fun?)Tried a #18 Adams and didn’t get a look from the trout. Being too lazy to rerig for nymphs again I tied on a #14 Royal Trude and promptly caught two fish, the biggest being 9", about average for this water. Thought I had hit paydirt but then didn’t get another fish to even splash at the fly for several hundred more yards upstream.  As I approached a deep fast run that has given up large fish for me in the past I rigged up with a green yarn indicator supporting a GRHE nymph with a Copper John nymph for a dropper. Promptly found out that casting a leader with three attachments of different densities was a major challenge. For every two or three casts that I got off successfully there was one that tangled the flies and indicator together. No fish came from the run but just upstream I noticed a few Hendrickson mayflies struggling at the surface and then taking flight. Even better I began to pick up fish. Two 9" brookies in fine color came to hand on the GRHE. The Copper John was ignored.  The first splashy rises brought a change in terminal tackle again. A #14 Hendrickson was bent on but ignored by the fish. A brown emerger was tried but no luck. And it began to rain. There were still a few flies on the water but the rises had quit. Struggled into my rain gear (i.e. an emergency rain poncho aka glorified garbage bag with a hood).  Made the decision to head downstream for the car. Cinched on a #12 Hares Ear soft hackle. A few bumps and one small brookie later found me at the head of a small pool. Went to a Royal Coachman streamer. After a few casts I noticed a couple of quiet rises behind an alder branch across the stream from me. As I was lifting the streamer from the water there was a strong swirl and the biggest fish of the trip came to my net, an 11" brookie. The rises behind the alder had stopped but a couple of pools down saw another fish feeding. Tied on the Hendrickson again and a few casts later a brook trout responded to the float. At the tail of the pool there was a pod of fish feeding on the still sporadically hatching Hendricksons. Reached into my pocket to check the water temp and….came up empty. In my contortions to get into the cheap rain poncho I had knocked my new thermometer loose and it was lying somewhere upstream amongst the rocks and trout. Oh well, there were still fish to cast to. The Hendrickson took three more brookies on downstream drifts until another, harder rain shower put the fish down again. Almost back to the car, I tied on a Partridge and Green soft hackle (with flourescent green floss for the abdomen) and immediately hooked the hottest fish of the trip, a fast, jumping 10" brown. A few yards farther down brought its twin to hand. With the rain coming even harder, thunder in the distance and a deadline in town I decided to call it a day. Other than the lost thermometer it was a most successful first day on the water. No big fish but enough action to keep me satisfied with my efforts.  And, as usual, the "Mayfly" lived up to its nickname. G.Cleveland

Response:

Its been a very wet, cold spring so far, here in Wisconsin. But I

<SNIP Very nice report, of what sounds like a very nice trip. Most enjoyable. TL MV

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Question:

Goto www.africanfishing.com and click on "articles" and then "pain of cane". My experiences with silk are there.

Haven’t seen the recent improvements you made to your site.  Nice work. So you’re married to someone who catches bigger fish than you?  Looks like she’s not afraid to handle a tigerfish.  What did you do to deserve this fortunate curse?  BTW, I thought you had mentioned catching mullet a while back.  Do you pursue mullet? Mu

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Not my wife (Gaelle), lest she kill me. Just a co-presenter (Taryn McCann) who catches bigger fish. My curse? Having to fire her pretty ass before she catches more! I ain’t caught no mullet. Sudesh Pursad has (I think) www.bamba.co.za. Ari Goto www.africanfishing.com and click on "articles" and then "pain of cane". My experiences with silk are there. Haven’t seen the recent improvements you made to your site.  Nice work. So you’re married to someone who catches bigger fish than you?  Looks like she’s not afraid to handle a tigerfish.  What did you do to deserve this fortunate curse?  BTW, I thought you had mentioned catching mullet a while back.  Do you pursue mullet? Mu

Ari & Gaelle Bert                                   +27 (0) 83 232 9903 & +27 (0) 83 236 5308 +27 (0) 11 443 9984 / +27 (0) 11 882 8537 (fax)                 www.troutfishing.co.za www.africanfishing.com Physical Address: 72 Swemmer Rd, Sunningdale, 2192 Postal Address: P.O.Box 79067, Senderwood, 2145, South Africa

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I would like to have comments of Silk Fly lines by someone who has used one. And, anyone know of a source in the U.S. for same? Michael

Mike, I love casting a silk line, they really bring old bamboo rods to life. they need fussing with but it’s worth it when using the older rods with small line guides. and it floats well when fresh. when it gets waterlogged around lunch time just spread it out between a couple trees to air dry, finish lunch and retreat with Mucilin Red Label- don’t use the Green Label, it has silicone which is BAD for silk. or you can do what i do and buy two half lines – Thebault makes them – and switch lines when one gets waterlogged. you can find Phoenix and Thebault lines at www.wagnerrods.com at a good price. the Phoenix is a more polished line right out of the box, the Thebault will take a little breaking in. both are beautiful to look at and hit the water so softly and quietly….try it , you’ll like it cheers, Bob please visit my site at http://www.bluecollarcane.com

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I would like to have comments of Silk Fly lines by someone who has used one. And, anyone know of a source in the U.S. for same?

I use a Phoenix silk DT5 on an old bamboo rod. They’re a match made in flyfishing heaven. Have never tried it on a modern rod. The only place I know of to get a NEW silk line is to mail order from Phoenix in France. http://www.phoenixlines.com/ You can find used silk in the US, but be careful, and make sure you’re getting silk and not nylon. Reed Curry has an excellent article on his web site about purchasing and cleaning old silk lines. http://www.overmywaders.com/articles/cleaningsilk.html HTH — Ken Fortenberry

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Goto www.africanfishing.com and click on "articles" and then "pain of cane". My experiences with silk are there. Ari I would like to have comments of Silk Fly lines by someone who has used one. And, anyone know of a source in the U.S. for same? Michael

Ari & Gaelle Bert                                   +27 (0) 83 232 9903 & +27 (0) 83 236 5308 +27 (0) 11 443 9984 / +27 (0) 11 882 8537 (fax)                 www.troutfishing.co.za www.africanfishing.com Physical Address: 72 Swemmer Rd, Sunningdale, 2192 Postal Address: P.O.Box 79067, Senderwood, 2145, South Africa

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I would like to have comments of Silk Fly lines by someone who has used one. And, anyone know of a source in the U.S. for same? Michael

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Question:

Mike,   I think I was in Charlotte, coming from Miami heading for Dayton….no wait a minute I was in Miami. Anyhow, transferred in Charlotte and left for Dayton. Anyhow, when I left Miami, I could see my bags and rod case on the cart. The plane was full and my bags and rod case did not get loaded. they were left in Miami. My bags and rod case were on the turnstile when I got to Dayton. This causes a pain between my ears which I do not understand. john

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Going down to Venezuela for peacock bass in January, and I’m planning on taking all my gear in one carry-on bag (plus two travel rod tubes), but the airline tells me NO HOOKS, which means no flies.  Now, when I travel to fishing destinations, I never check anything, you guys know why.  Any suggestions on how to overcome the chances of not having any flies when I get there?  Thanks, Adam A bunch of guys from my club going down to Baja post 9/11 were not allowed to take hooks in their carryon going down. They were not allowed to even carry rods on board coming back. I have done quite a bit of international traveling with scuba gear which was way to much to carry on. I have had only one incident of a bag being delayed. There are a couple of things that I am sure help. Go for the easily identifiable luggage that doesn’t advertise that there is expensive sports equipment inside. Know the three letter airport code of your destination and make sure that is on the tag that is attached when you check in. Make sure the tag is attached to something secure on the luggage. Put your name and address inside as well as on the tag you are required to have outside. Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories Phone: (650)-857-5491               Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971

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Any suggestions on how to overcome the chances of not having any flies when I get there?  Thanks, I’ve never lost luggage on an international flight, so I’d check my bags – but I’d carry at least one rod and reel on just in case it’s the first time. <g They can’t take off with your bags without you on the plane these days, either. Or, you could try to sneak them on and take the chance of being held up in security while your plane does take off sans you. FWIW

Um…Right now, I’d recommend doing absolutely nothing that gives very jumpy airport security crews reason to give one any "special attention". A member of my design team was virtually strip-searched yesterday in Denver while changing planes on his way to San Jose, apparently the unlucky winner of a random selection process… /daytripper (He decidedly did not enjoy the experience)

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I saw a demonstration once on the use of everyday items as weapons.  I think the newspaper is actually deadlier than the Bic razor!!

Perhaps it’s not wise to publicize even the possibility in a public forum, but there’s some evidence that a properly cured pair of waders, carried aboard in a hermetically sealed bag, then opened once aloft, could render the entire cabin unconscious.   JR

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… there’s some evidence that a properly cured pair of waders, carried aboard in a hermetically sealed bag, then opened once aloft, could render the entire cabin unconscious.

I thought Waldo had his old waders carted off to a Superfund Site. — Ken Fortenberry- pray that bin Laden never gets his hands on Waldo’s waders

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Several years ago my company was working on a project in Venezuela.  Fed-X subcontracts delivery.  It took two weeks for them to get a package there.  DHL was much better, however customs in Venezuela is always a crap shoot. Things do not understand drive them nuts.   Put the hooks/flys in checked baggage if you really want any chance of them being there with you.  Have a great trip. Chuck W. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We’ve had better luck with DHL-Intenational.  Cheaper than UPS generally, and simpler customs clearance issues. — Jim —      http://www.westernsportshop.com Western Sport Shop Discussion forums –      http://www.westernsportshop.com/forums.html Western Sport Shop Email Newsletter Signup –      http://lists.westernsportshop.com/mailman/listinfo/wss-newsletter

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Thanks anyway.

It’s your call. I’ve taken 3 international trips since 9/11 and I would take my chances with checked baggage over trying to carry anything sharp on the plane. — Charlie…

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I’ve made my decision, I’m checking the hooks.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks anyway. It’s your call. I’ve taken 3 international trips since 9/11 and I would take my chances with checked baggage over trying to carry anything sharp on the plane. — Charlie…

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I’ve made my decision, I’m checking the hooks.

Best of luck both traveling and fishing! — Charlie…

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I saw a demonstration once on the use of everyday items as weapons.  I think the newspaper is actually deadlier than the Bic razor!!   Scott – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Remember, the airline people are not the screeners….Chances are the person you spoke to was thinking more along the lines of a hook for a baleen whale, We had a good customer who attempted to board a plane with a disposable BIC razor in his carry-on.  Thankfully, the screeners stopped him cold, taking his weapon.  Once through the security checkpoint, he went into the newstand and bought a newspaper and a 3-pack of BIC disposable razors…. ;^) Until things get more sane, I’d probably ship ‘em down early, or pack some into your checked luggage – maybe both… — Jim

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Good idea, but the place I’m going to is really out of the way, and I’ve heard that stuff often doesn’t get there.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you have a contact point in Venezuela like an outfitter or lodge you could arrange to have Fed-x or UPS worldwide to ship your flies down in advance and have them waiting for you. Kinda pricey, but if you’re spending that kind of money to go down there, it might be just another vacation related expense. Going down to Venezuela for peacock bass in January, and I’m planning on taking all my gear in one carry-on bag (plus two travel rod tubes), but the airline tells me NO HOOKS, which means no flies.  Now, when I travel to fishing destinations, I never check anything, you guys know why.  Any suggestions on how to overcome the chances of not having any flies when I get there?  Thanks, Adam

Response:

I’ve never lost any stuff on an international flight, either (probably because I carry on).  But, during my last trip to Venezuela, one of the folks at the camp didn’t get his stuff until the 7th day of a 9 day stay. He’d been going done there for 10 years, but shit is bound to happen. Thanks anyway.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any suggestions on how to overcome the chances of not having any flies when I get there?  Thanks, I’ve never lost luggage on an international flight, so I’d check my bags – but I’d carry at least one rod and reel on just in case it’s the first time. <g They can’t take off with your bags without you on the plane these days, either. Or, you could try to sneak them on and take the chance of being held up in security while your plane does take off sans you. FWIW — Charlie…

Response:

If you have a contact point in Venezuela like an outfitter or lodge you could arrange to have Fed-x or UPS worldwide to ship your flies down in advance and have them waiting for you. Kinda pricey, but if you’re spending that kind of money to go down there, it might be just another vacation related expense.

We’ve had better luck with DHL-Intenational.  Cheaper than UPS generally, and simpler customs clearance issues. — Jim —      http://www.westernsportshop.com Western Sport Shop Discussion forums –      http://www.westernsportshop.com/forums.html Western Sport Shop Email Newsletter Signup –      http://lists.westernsportshop.com/mailman/listinfo/wss-newsletter

Response:

Remember, the airline people are not the screeners….Chances are the person you spoke to was thinking more along the lines of a hook for a baleen whale,

We had a good customer who attempted to board a plane with a disposable BIC razor in his carry-on.  Thankfully, the screeners stopped him cold, taking his weapon.  Once through the security checkpoint, he went into the newstand and bought a newspaper and a 3-pack of BIC disposable razors…. ;^) Until things get more sane, I’d probably ship ‘em down early, or pack some into your checked luggage – maybe both… — Jim —      http://www.westernsportshop.com Western Sport Shop Discussion forums –      http://www.westernsportshop.com/forums.html Western Sport Shop Email Newsletter Signup –      http://lists.westernsportshop.com/mailman/listinfo/wss-newsletter

Response:

Post 9/11 I went from West Palm Beach-Houston-South padre Isl for red fish. As my guide was supplying the flies, I just took 2 travel rod in aluminum tubes, and my gear bag (sans flies and knives).  However, I was stopped at the x-ray machine and my 51/2" forceps were confiscated.  Luckily I had time to bring them to the check-in counter and they kept them until I got back. I think that the bottom line is that we are all at the mercy of the examiners and not the airlines.  What may be one guy’s interpretation of a weapon, may be another guy’s harmless nose hair picker.  I think that I’ll just check the flies in a non-descript bag and hope they arrive in Caracas with me. By the way, I’m going back to a Peacock bass camp on the banks of the Cinaruco River (about 300 miles south of Caracas).  Let me highly recommend this destination as a place to go if you want a lot of action with al very tough fish.  My first time there, last year in January, I met up with 3 other fly rodders and for 9 days we boated between 20 and 59 fish/each per day.  They averaged around 5#, and I was lucky to catch the biggest of the trip, a 10 and 12 pounded.  This is not the Lake Guri deal.  It is more rustic, the food is good-OK, drinks on the house, there are all three species of peacocks int he water, the biggest goes to around 16-17# (the only negative for those who want the bigger fish).  I normally go to the Caribbean for sight fishing, which I will continue to do, but the action here was so good that I had to do it again.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Going down to Venezuela for peacock bass in January, and I’m planning on taking all my gear in one carry-on bag (plus two travel rod tubes), but the airline tells me NO HOOKS, which means no flies.  Now, when I travel to fishing destinations, I never check anything, you guys know why.  Any suggestions on how to overcome the chances of not having any flies when I get there?  Thanks, Adam A bunch of guys from my club going down to Baja post 9/11 were not allowed to take hooks in their carryon going down. They were not allowed to even carry rods on board coming back. I have done quite a bit of international traveling with scuba gear which was way to much to carry on. I have had only one incident of a bag being delayed. There are a couple of things that I am sure help. Go for the easily identifiable luggage that doesn’t advertise that there is expensive sports equipment inside. Know the three letter airport code of your destination and make sure that is on the tag that is attached when you check in. Make sure the tag is attached to something secure on the luggage. Put your name and address inside as well as on the tag you are required to have outside. Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories Phone: (650)-857-5491               Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971

Response:

Going down to Venezuela for peacock bass in January, and I’m planning on taking all my gear in one carry-on bag (plus two travel rod tubes), but the airline tells me NO HOOKS, which means no flies.  Now, when I travel to fishing destinations, I never check anything, you guys know why.  Any suggestions on how to overcome the chances of not having any flies when I get there?  Thanks, Adam

Response:

If you have a contact point in Venezuela like an outfitter or lodge you could arrange to have Fed-x or UPS worldwide to ship your flies down in advance and have them waiting for you. Kinda pricey, but if you’re spending that kind of money to go down there, it might be just another vacation related expense.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Going down to Venezuela for peacock bass in January, and I’m planning on taking all my gear in one carry-on bag (plus two travel rod tubes), but the airline tells me NO HOOKS, which means no flies.  Now, when I travel to fishing destinations, I never check anything, you guys know why.  Any suggestions on how to overcome the chances of not having any flies when I get there?  Thanks, Adam

Response:

Any suggestions on how to overcome the chances of not having any flies when I get there?  Thanks,

I’ve never lost luggage on an international flight, so I’d check my bags – but I’d carry at least one rod and reel on just in case it’s the first time. <g They can’t take off with your bags without you on the plane these days, either. Or, you could try to sneak them on and take the chance of being held up in security while your plane does take off sans you. FWIW — Charlie…

Response:

Adam, let me ask exactly where you are going… I’ve had no problems heading south, but the last time was before 9-11. Remember, the airline people are not the screeners….Chances are the person you spoke to was thinking more along the lines of a hook for a baleen whale, or maybe one of the narwhale things that made the mermaid legends.  Which, considering what the mores of society have been in the none to recent past and present, doesn’t really surprise me that there might have been a sexual attraction. I AM surprised that there was no viable offspring. john You could always send a package to the guide a couple of weeks before. They generally have good connections in town.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Going down to Venezuela for peacock bass in January, and I’m planning on taking all my gear in one carry-on bag (plus two travel rod tubes), but the airline tells me NO HOOKS, which means no flies.  Now, when I travel to fishing destinations, I never check anything, you guys know why.  Any suggestions on how to overcome the chances of not having any flies when I get there?  Thanks, Adam

Response:

Going down to Venezuela for peacock bass in January, and I’m planning on taking all my gear in one carry-on bag (plus two travel rod tubes), but the airline tells me NO HOOKS, which means no flies.  Now, when I travel to fishing destinations, I never check anything, you guys know why.  Any suggestions on how to overcome the chances of not having any flies when I get there?  Thanks, Adam

A bunch of guys from my club going down to Baja post 9/11 were not allowed to take hooks in their carryon going down. They were not allowed to even carry rods on board coming back. I have done quite a bit of international traveling with scuba gear which was way to much to carry on. I have had only one incident of a bag being delayed. There are a couple of things that I am sure help. Go for the easily identifiable luggage that doesn’t advertise that there is expensive sports equipment inside. Know the three letter airport code of your destination and make sure that is on the tag that is attached when you check in. Make sure the tag is attached to something secure on the luggage. Put your name and address inside as well as on the tag you are required to have outside. Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories Phone: (650)-857-5491               Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971          

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Question:

if there’s one extra person we could have there, bar none, it’d be you.  and if it helps, we’re all jealous of you 100% of the time.  let me quote (loosely) the great jimmy buffett: you got your pickup washed and you just got paid, with any luck at all you might even get laid, rockin and a rollin on a livingston saturday night. there’s that, the yellowstone, madison, gallatin, bighorn, and bridger bowl and big sky also. bruce h

        i’ll be damned if i don’t think i see some tar heel in you goddam cowboys!  good thinkin, and good talkin, bruce! your friend in the old north state wayno

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<snipped I’ll get tying some up for us. bc. — Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -Benjamin Franklin

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It is working again.

thanks warren, i thought i’d done something miraculous when the treads started coming up readable again. Wish I was able to make it.  I am getting really jealous right now.

if there’s one extra person we could have there, bar none, it’d be you.  and if it helps, we’re all jealous of you 100% of the time.  let me quote (loosely) the great jimmy buffett: you got your pickup washed and you just got paid, with any luck at all you might even get laid, rockin and a rollin on a livingston saturday night. there’s that, the yellowstone, madison, gallatin, bighorn, and bridger bowl and big sky also. bruce h — bare your soul let your spirit burn out along the road to no return – r.e. keen Before you buy.

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Let me know what size the grey ones are, and I’ll tie some up.

i’m not sure but i think they’re slightly larger.  use a tiemco 2488 size 24 and grey thread.  black thread for the rib and a crystal flash emerger wing.  black thread head. i bet we just see continued hatches of those tiny black midges, but who knows. bruce h — bare your soul let your spirit burn out along the road to no return – r.e. keen Before you buy.

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I didn’t get your original post on my news server, I had to go to Deja to read it.

   I can’t get anything on the web today, just e-mail and newsgroups. Do you think Al Gore got so mad he turned off the internet?

Response:

yes, absolutely.  100% tiny black midges as far as i could tell.  with that black midge, the hatch goes quickly and the fish don’t take emergers for very long.

I have some black midges that I tied for the Green earlier this year. I’ll remember to bring them for this trip. the other midge i see a lot is grey with a black rib.  when those bugs hatch it seems like the hatch lasts longer and that the fish really get going on emergers.  just a theory though.

Almost sounds like a Grey RS2.  What size? and i’m told there are many other common midge hatches up there, it just seems like i either see black ones or grey ones with the black rib.

Let me know what size the grey ones are, and I’ll tie some up. bc. — Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -Benjamin Franklin

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Are they the tiny little black midges?

yes, absolutely.  100% tiny black midges as far as i could tell.  with that black midge, the hatch goes quickly and the fish don’t take emergers for very long. the other midge i see a lot is grey with a black rib.  when those bugs hatch it seems like the hatch lasts longer and that the fish really get going on emergers.  just a theory though. and i’m told there are many other common midge hatches up there, it just seems like i either see black ones or grey ones with the black rib. bruce h — bare your soul let your spirit burn out along the road to no return – r.e. keen Before you buy.

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<excellent scouting report snipped

Bruce, Thanks for the report. I didn’t get your original post on my news server, I had to go to Deja to read it. I’m hoping this spell of good weather we’re having lasts for the Juan get together. Willi

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Willi, I did not get the original post either.   Bruce, Awesome report. Thanks for the selfless act of doing some recon for our benefit. I am sure the other fellow clavers thank you as well. You said people were using dry flies.  Are they the tiny little black midges? bc. — Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -Benjamin Franklin

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<excellent scouting report snipped 1.  I can’t get email right now, and i’m actually having trouble with deja.com – when i get into the newsgroup the posts aren’t grouped into threads and the latest posts are from 11/21.  If anyone can help me here, i’d appreciate it.  In the meantime, if you need to reach me, call me at work 800-776-5973.  (bruce hopper’s my full name).

It is working again.  They were doing some maintenence on Deja and that was why it pulled up the weird format for the newsgroups.  When it puts a ‘*’ in the search section it means they are doing some work on the system. always wears breathables, but i switched to neoprenes at lunch and i was much more comfy after that, except when i stepped in a little deep and felt that awful feeling of water inside the waders.

There is a product called Simmseal (sp?) that works wonders for leaky neoprenes.  It is a liquid neoprene and you just pour a drop on the leak, spread it around a little and let it set.  Very easy fix once you find the leak. Wish I was able to make it.  I am getting really jealous right now. — Warren Before you buy.

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I made it up to the SJ saturday to try to figure out where the fish are before everyone shows up.  Here’s a list of mostly unrelated observations: 1.  I can’t get email right now, and i’m actually having trouble with deja.com – when i get into the newsgroup the posts aren’t grouped into threads and the latest posts are from 11/21.  If anyone can help me here, i’d appreciate it.  In the meantime, if you need to reach me, call me at work 800-776-5973.  (bruce hopper’s my full name). 2.  It’s certainly tougher to see into the water with the sun so low, but when the fish are making rise forms, either taking emergers or dries, they’re easy to see.  I used several tricks to spot fish holding deeper, because sight fishing with nymphs is one of the most productive methods for me up there.  I stood on the bank, varied my angle, squinted, etc.  Early in the day, you can see into the water well from the north side of the river.  The rest of the day it help to face north and get the sun at your back. 3.  There was maybe 2.5 hrs during the day where the fish were taking dries.  I saw lots of fish on dries out in the current about 200 yards below texas hole – also a good place to get some water to yourself.  I caught fish by just putting emergers on the surface.  When i actually picked out a single fish and used a few different dry fly/tippet combos, all i got was refusals.  Tough customers. 4.  Knowing where the fish are is so important now, so i scouted the area right below the dam where the fish are known to be plentiful, large, and very selective.  They mostly take the tiny midge patterns close to the dam, although lots of folks fish leeches, worms, and eggs up there also.  I picked up only two fish there after lots of work. Both on size 24 red larva.  All day i landed 10 fish and that counts two smaller ones. 5.  Overall it was a bit of a frustrating day.  Ten fish isn’t bad, but i caught about 4 in the last half hour, nymphing deep in the main channel, blind casting where i knew there were fish.  It was cold all day and i dropped 4 or 5 flies before tying them on.  When you drop a size 24 ufo, don’t bother looking for it.  I’m one of those guys who always wears breathables, but i switched to neoprenes at lunch and i was much more comfy after that, except when i stepped in a little deep and felt that awful feeling of water inside the waders. 6.  I fish there a lot and i’ve got all the patterns and equipment, etc, but getting advice from me is a lot different than fishing with a guide.  For some reason they’ve just got it dialed in, and I think it’s mostly knowing where the fish are holding at that particular time. I’ve only fished with a guide four times up there, and each time i’ve caught far more fish than i would’ve on my own.  If anyone wants a guide for a day, i’d recommend Chris Guikema http://www.sanjuanworm.com – he is friendly and an excellent guide.  Craig at Float n Fish said he’d guide for this group (he knows we’re coming) and fishing with him would be a treat also.  Float n Fish has no website, but they can be reached at 505-632-5385 – Craig or Ray will usually answer the phone. 7.  The water was still clear, lake turnover hasn’t started yet.  Every day that goes by clear increases our chances of encountering cloudy water 8.  Something i’ve noticed lately:  Lots of guys enter the river carrying two rods, one set up for dries, one for nymphs.  At first i thought "give me a break" but when i think about it it makes some sense.  Lots of times i see fish surfacing so i quickly pull the yarn out of my leader and pop the indicator knot out and switch to emergers or a dry and by the time i’ve made the change, maybe three minutes, the fish aren’t rising any more.  So, i switch back to a deep rig and re rig and indicator (5 min) only to find the fish surfacing again. Either i’m real dumb (very likely) or these "two rod" guys have a good idea. I’m really looking forward to seeing/meeting everyone. bruce h — bare your soul let your spirit burn out along the road to no return – r.e. keen Before you buy.

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Question:

Greetings. I made a reference to Chatham being the only GREAT flyfishing writer alive today (please, this is NOT a John Gierach troll….). I have a specific honest and open-minded question that I ask at the bottom of this post…. Someone responed (I need to go see whom)…"What about Thomas McGuane ?" Well, I wasn’t really sure and hadn’t read any T. McGuane recently, so I read "The Longest Silence" yesterday. I must say that what I read really got me in a lather, it was difficult for me to even get off page one and I recalled my previous feeling for the man. It was not GREAT writing, far from it. The problem was that he made reference to meat hunters and their gunnysack full mentality and how if he hears one more person ask him "is they good to et ?" he would go nuts (which is fine and dandy, he is allowed to have an opinion) but then he went on to (discussing the pursuit of permit) say that "if you have one mounted….", (what you could expect), etc. So I read (in no uncertain terms)… 1) Hunting for meat is beyond reproach. 2) Hunting for a trophy is acceptible. And, as far as I’m concerned….McGuane can pound sand… But that was just the tip…I felt like he was bragging the whole time…about his fearless hauling ass in his overpowered skiff and ricking life and limb in the process. Actually "Bragging" describes his writing farily accurately to me (kind of the way I feel when I read Wulff). Does he write well ?  Perhaps, if you would call inflammatory remarks and bragging ‘writing well’.  A GREAT fishing writer should not rely on this sort of thing, IMO, however popular with his constituents.  It simply is never necessary in the telling of any story by a GREAT writer. I immediately reread Chathams "No Wind in the Willows" (both short stories are in Sports Afield "A Flyfishers Reader") and was brought back to a semblance of calm. Not unlike the transient calmness brought on by the writings in "Waterlog" In fact, if you want me to mellow out entirely, pool together and buy me a subscription to this, the best fishing periodical in the world (Gray’s Sporting News excepted). I guess if asked to surmise… Chatham took me fishing. McGuane took me with him while he fished. Chatham had ’soul’. McGuane only spouted. What can I say, I loved the former but loathed the latter. I’d hate to formulate an opinion on one short story…thus my question…. Can someone point me to "good" McGuane ? Or maybe they meant Thomas Macintyre ? — TimW – Halfordian Golfer Guilt replaced the creel…

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And no-one could accuse you of making "inflammatory remarks" could they Tim??? — Regards Peter (Please also reply by email, my server "loses" posts. Remove nospam to email) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Greetings. Does he write well ?  Perhaps, if you would call inflammatory remarks and bragging ‘writing well’.  A GREAT fishing writer should not rely on this

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And no-one could accuse you of making "inflammatory remarks" could they Tim???

But, uh…with all due respect… We were discussing GREAT fishing author’s and not… "The Efficacy of Beligerance in an Internet Flyfishing Newsgroup…". But if you wanna start that thread….go for it ! — TimW – Halfordian Golfer Guilt replaced the creel…

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Moe asked: <Can someone point me to "good" McGuane ? Impossible.  Go reread Hemingway.

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It’s supposed to be funny!  I think he’s as cynical as they come and I tend to like that sort of thing.  Have you read the Sporting Club?  It makes a lot of fun of the "sports" and they (we) deserve it– in a good way.

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I am willing to wager that any one sentence chosen at random from McGuane’s "Essays On Sport" is more worthy of our attention than anything that will ever pop into your pea brain.  (For example, unlike you, he knows how to spell the word "acceptable.")   If you fish no better than you write, I doubt you’ll ever pose a serious threat to permit.

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It’s a bit harsh to pull someone up for a spelling mistake. Not using the spell checker yes, fair enough but not for a spelling mistake! — Regards Peter (Please also reply by email, my server "loses" posts. Remove nospam to email)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I am willing to wager that any one sentence chosen at random from McGuane’s "Essays On Sport" is more worthy of our attention than anything that will ever pop into your pea brain.  (For example, unlike you, he knows how to spell the word "acceptable.")   If you fish no better than you write, I doubt you’ll ever pose a serious threat to permit.

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I made a reference to Chatham being the only GREAT flyfishing writer alive today (please, this is NOT a John Gierach troll….). I have a specific honest and open-minded question that I ask at the bottom of this post….

Wait a minute, I seem to recall a post not so long ago where you maintained a certain writer (whose name I won’t mention) couldn’t possibly be a GREAT fly fishing writer because eighth graders wouldn’t ever be required to read his work (creating a situation where there might only be five "great" writers in all the history of man). Is Chatham required reading in junior high? Tight lines, TC

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Moe asked: <Can someone point me to "good" McGuane ? Impossible.  Go reread Hemingway.

if there is one thing I hate it’s people using Hemingway as an example of a great FF writer. A great writer he was, perhaps the best of a great lot the US of A produced this century. But as a fisherman and a writer about FF he was just a duffer; a mere pedestrian. Most who fished with him ( and lived to regret the experience) – remarked he wasn’t much of a fisherman.Much of his reputation was thanks to his talent for bragging and fabrication (he was a writer of fiction after all!) Hemmingway publically admitted to admiring Haig-Brown – enough said. Ralph H note spurious hyperbole, insults and ‘personal attacks’ made by the author are meant to honour "the Soul of Cicero" and are not intended as personal slights. Please don’t take offense as none is intended. remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

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Read McGuane’s short story "Molly" in an Outside Chance. If you have ever owned a bird dog you will laugh your ass off.

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Excellent point on McGuane’s rehashing of the same plot line and though he can make his rehash interesting sometimes, Nothing but Blue Skies was barely readable.  To this day, it remains 80 pages short of unread for me with no intent to ever pick it back up. To interject a new arguement though, I can’t say enough though about David James Duncan.  The section of The River Why discussing the weight of a scientist’s frozen brain was absolute comedic brilliance. Cheers, Ivan

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Excellent point on McGuane’s rehashing of the same plot line and though he can make his rehash interesting sometimes, Nothing but Blue Skies was barely readable.  To this day, it remains 80 pages short of unread for me with no intent to ever pick it back up. To interject a new arguement though, I can’t say enough though about David James Duncan.  The section of The River Why discussing the weight of a scientist’s frozen brain was absolute comedic brilliance.

I read "The River Why" not long ago and thoroughly enjoyed it. It was actually assigned to one of my sons’ high school english class to read. — Charlie…

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: I read "The River Why" not long ago and thoroughly enjoyed it. It was : actually assigned to one of my sons’ high school english class to : read. Beautiful stuff indeed.  So good, I can’t bring myself to read Duncan’s other work in case it doesn’t match up.  I guess I’m losing my optimistic side… — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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Question:

I am relocating to the Boston area (North Shore) and I am looking for good trout spots as well as some hotspots for Bluefish and Strippers. Any ideas are most appreciated. Mike

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I am relocating to the Boston area (North Shore) and I am looking for good trout spots as well as some hotspots for Bluefish and Strippers. Any ideas are most appreciated. Mike

My web site has links to the area fish finder reports, including Reel-Time, for whom I write the Metropolitan Boston report. Additionally, I carry stocking reports and fishing reports from local anglers.  I’m in the midst of updating the page, but you’ll find plenty of info that can get you started.  Feel free to e-mail me with any questions. Welcome to the area. — Mark Cahill For E-mail remove the _Remove_This from the reply to address. http://www.geocities.com/Baja/3297/fishing.htm Mark Cahill’s Fishing New England – Daily Fishing News http://www.reel-time.com/ The Internet Journal of Saltwater Fly Fishing – Metropolitan Boston Regional Editor

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: I am relocating to the Boston area (North Shore) and I am looking for good : trout spots as well as some hotspots for Bluefish and Strippers. : Any ideas are most appreciated. : Mike For trout try the Nissitissit C&R area in Pepperill. For SW try southern ME and Plum I and Crane’s Beach in Ipswitch.

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Question:

Here in ROFF I have learned the following: Trolling a fly from a float tube is not flyfishing Using a strike indicator is almost flyfishing Using more than one fly is really flyfishing Presenting dry flies upstream is the only true flyfishing Eating trout is OK (and tasty) Eating trout is not OK, but perch taste better anyway Tailwaters are bad Tailwaters are fabulous Tim is a funny guy Ralph really likes Tim Many people want to flyfish Colorado needs hatcheries Hatcheries ultimately hurt anadromous species It ain’t the way it used to be And I agree with all of these things……. JE

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Here in ROFF I have learned the following: Tim is a funny guy Ralph really likes Tim

like him? I absolutley adore the big neurotic lug! Ralph H remove "take_this_out" for email reply

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Question:

I`m going for a week to Nahville Tenn. and Want to Know of any Flyfishing for central Tenn. L.J.`s Eastrn web site is great but its 3 hours from where I will be based.  Any help would be welcome…Tight Lines…Trouter1

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I`m going for a week to Nahville Tenn. and Want to Know of any Flyfishing for central Tenn. L.J.`s Eastrn web site is great but its 3 hours from where I will be based.  Any help would be welcome…Tight Lines…Trouter1

Wasn’t last years TU annual meeting in Nashville?  I think there are some great tailwater opportunities in the area… — Chris Schmelzer, NREMT-P Duluth, Minnesota

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Question:

Standing up in a canoe is like anything else.  Doing it right requires practice.  I’ve done it but I don’t like to stand in a canoe.  When I was looking for the boat I have now, a kayak, I received many recommendations saying that I should get a canoe.  The main point was that I could pole a WW canoe up a shallow run when, with a kayak, I’d have to get out and wade.  They had a good point and I have had to wade some chutes that I could have poled a boat up.  However, my kayak offers many advantages for a solo paddler and I normally use it for transportation to a place and then I get out and do whatever I’m going to do. Bob — —– Bob Perkins, Director of Institutional Research and Planning Methodist College Fayetteville, NC  28311                          Office: 910-630-7037

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I am considering purchasing a canoe or kayak for quick trips to the lakes, rivers and bays for fly fishing and recreation around Houston.  Most of the time I will be fishing alone, but would like to take my son or another friend at times.  Day trips only, no overnight or long journeys anticipated.   Suggestions as to canoe vs kayak and other details would be appreciated.  Size, composition, design, etc. would all be helpful.

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I am considering purchasing a canoe or kayak for quick trips to the lakes, rivers and bays for fly fishing and recreation around Houston.  Most of the time I will be fishing alone, but would like to take my son or another friend at times.  Day trips only, no overnight or long journeys anticipated.   Suggestions as to canoe vs kayak and other details would be appreciated.  Size, composition, design, etc. would all be helpful.I bought a 13 foot Navarro canoe that I like a lot.  It’s pretty light

at 58 pounds, 38 inches wide with a pretty flat bottom (flattened arch is what the brochure calls it) which gives it enough initial stability that you can actually stand up in it to cast, though I don’t very often. It’s built with resin impregnated cherry wood ribs and a fiberglass skin. It’s quite pretty to look at if that’s important to you…about $900.  It’s not designed for white water but handles very nicely on lakes and slower moving water with one or two anglers aboard. E-mail me if you have any questions…We-No-Nah makes a canoe with similar configuration, size and weight.  No wood but it’s about $150 cheaper, and they also make a good canoe.  Happy hunting. Dean Henry

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: I am considering purchasing a canoe or kayak for quick trips to the lakes, rivers and bays for I’ve never owned or tried a kayak, but my guess is they would not be a comfortable general-purpose fishing platform. I used to own a 12ft canoe that was absolutley great alone, but really could not handle two people. For two, I wouldn’t go smaller than 15ft. We have an Old Town Discovery 15"8", and like it alot. I handle it alone (car-top) always, and I’m a small guy; its 80lbs, but if you’re willing to spend more you can get much lighter canoes. Just go to a shop and pick up all the canoe maker’s sales booklets. These will explain different hull shapes, etc., and I think you’ll see what you want pretty quickly. If not, then talk to a salesperson. I don’t know how much time you’ve spent in boats or in canoes, but if you have no experience, you might find canoes a bit nervous. I think some people get used to it and some don’t; I’m not sure you can ever tell ahead of time. Just gotta try it, I guess. good luck, Jon Cook.

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Canoe probably your best bet. Its only draw back is the extra weight. I have a poke boat which is a semi covered deck, very light, kayak like boat. Its great for getting around, but forget even kneeling in it. In a canoe you could, with care, stand to cast. I. Clair

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I second the Aquaterra Keowee.  I bought the single seat model early this year and I love it.  It’s actually a pretty good fly fishing platform, but I use it mostly for getting to where I want to fish and then wading if possible.  It’s stable, lightweight, and floats in anything, but you have to sit in it, no kneeling.   Doug

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David, I e-mailed you the other day, but I think I forgot to send it. Duhh! Anyway, I’ll repeat what I wrote and you can ignore this if I did send. If you are planning to take two kids along you will need a canoe. It is challenging for three people to fly fish from a canoe. You’ll have to take turns casting. If you want to have a real blast fishing solo, try a Keowee. It is a 9 foot long, 30-40 pound heavy duty plastic molded recreational kayak. No whitewater for this baby, but it is great for poking around in places that even a canoe can’t easily get into and out of. It has just enough room for a small amount of gear and is very stable – not `tippy’ like most kayaks. Once you are in, it is nearly untippable. It takes a wee while to get used to getting in and out – not a easy as a canoe – but I love mine. My fishing friend and I each have one and we just pop them on the roof racks and off we go. They are made in the U.S. by a company called Aguaterra. They make many models, so specify the Keowee. It comes in several colours, including camo I think, and costs about $300 US. I think LL Bean sells it and maybe even Eddy Bauer. I bought mine in Maine from Maine Sport near Camden. I’ve also seen it in Kittery Maine at a large outfitter (can’t remember the name) and at the LLBean store in Freeport, Maine. In New Hampshire I have seen it in Littleton at the LaHouts Sports Store. I believe I’ve seen it in the LLBean catalog. I also use a canoe sometimes and own a float tube. I enjoy them all. Have fun with whatever you end up buying. Sandy

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I have something very similar – it’s a Creek Boat. It’s a one man, sit down low, fishing boat. It has a small livewell and a mounting block for a trolling motor and a foot steering system built in. Mine has oarlocks added also. Price is in the same range. It is a little lighter, but it is not indestructible. -Andy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I second the Aquaterra Keowee.  I bought the single seat model early this year and I love it.  It’s actually a pretty good fly fishing platform, but I use it mostly for getting to where I want to fish and then wading if possible.  It’s stable, lightweight, and floats in anything, but you have to sit in it, no kneeling.  

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In a canoe you could, with care, stand to cast.

Careful here. That is sort of like saying "in an automobile you could, with care, enter the Pikes Peak road rally".   You’d best not stand in a canoe with a rounded bottom and no keel, such as typical for whitewater.  Pick one with a wide beam, flat or shallow vee bottom and tumblehome – wider at or just above the waterline than at the gunwales. The manufacturers offer different models for various purposes. Pick one made for fishing or cargo or family use, not whitewater or fast cruising. Mark Vinsel http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.html

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – David, I e-mailed you the other day, but I think I forgot to send it. Duhh! Anyway, I’ll repeat what I wrote and you can ignore this if I did send. If you are planning to take two kids along you will need a canoe. It is challenging for three people to fly fish from a canoe. You’ll have to take turns casting. If you want to have a real blast fishing solo, try a Keowee. It is a 9 foot long, 30-40 pound heavy duty plastic molded recreational kayak. No whitewater for this baby, but it is great for poking around in places that even a canoe can’t easily get into and out of. It has just enough room for a small amount of gear and is very stable – not `tippy’ like most kayaks. Once you are in, it is nearly untippable. It takes a wee while to get used to getting in and out – not a easy as a canoe – but I love mine. My fishing friend and I each have one and we just pop them on the roof racks and off we go. They are made in the U.S. by a company called Aguaterra. They make many models, so specify the Keowee. It comes in several colours, including camo I think, and costs about $300 US. I think LL Bean sells it and maybe even Eddy Bauer. I bought mine in Maine from Maine Sport near Camden. I’ve also seen it in Kittery Maine at a large outfitter (can’t remember the name) and at the LLBean store in Freeport, Maine. In New Hampshire I have seen it in Littleton at the LaHouts Sports Store. I believe I’ve seen it in the LLBean catalog. I also use a canoe sometimes and own a float tube. I enjoy them all. Have fun with whatever you end up buying. Sandy

VISUALLY SPEAKING, from an outsider’s point of view.  Visual Pollution is just as real as many other forms.  I imagine, to someone of your generation, fly fishing out of a kayak, to many of us would be like seeing a whale turd in a party punch-bowl.  You not only don’t like looking at it, you wouldn’t use it either.  Yet, float tubes are another matter and I cannot explain to you why.  Go for a canoe, my friend. nuff said. George Gehrke

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Go with a canoe.  The Keowee is a nice platform, but its carrying capacity is limited.  I know a guy who fishes out of a sea kayak, but he paddles 2-5 times a week and normally doesn’t fly fish.  It’s theoretically possible for me to fly fish out of my Prijon Taifun (kayak), but if I’m going to fly fish I’ll use the boat to get where I’m going and then wade. Bob — —– Bob Perkins, Director of Institutional Research and Planning Methodist College Fayetteville, NC  28311                          Office: 910-630-7037

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One important consideration in chosing a craft for flyfishing is comfort. I have a 16′ Greenland style kayak that I use in the ocean. I also spend some time in the surf on a sit_on_top style kayak (you wouldn’t believe how many stripers hang out in that surf). Of the two, the sit on top is probably more stable for casting and fighting fish, and is certainly a better surf boat, but it is much less efficient to paddle and for me, is very uncomfortable. The one I’ve been using, ocean kayaks ‘frenzy’, has ribs built into it to give multiple places for bracing your feet. I suppose if you are 2" shorter or taller than me it would probably be a comfortable fit, but no matter how much I adjust the seat I can’t get a comfortable fit. Thus, I can’t imagine spending a lot of time trying to cast from it. Most conventional kayaks have internal foot braces that are adjustable. So if you decide to go plastic/sit on top I’d recommend spending at least one hour sitting in the boat to see if it is comfortable for you. Casting when your legs are cramping up can be a drag.                                                         jc

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I recently went through the canoe vs. kayak dilemma and settled with a kayak–a folding kayak. Although I had wanted a platform I could stand in, the seaworthiness and the portability of the folding kayak ruled out.  Obviously it’s nice to have easy access to my gear, food, etc. and even bring along someone else, but a kayak was a much better choice for me as I do most of my flyfishing is saltwater and I often travel by air to fish. The kayak I bought, a Feathercraft K Light Plus folds into a backpack and weighs only 32 pounds; it takes only 15 minutes to assemble; my rod fits under the deck bungees and I can take it out easily. The best thing is that I can take the kayak out into open ocean and not be concerned about being swamped over and I can fight a current quite easily.  I’ve been in big rips and paddled right back-up the beach to my car and fished in four foot swells–no problem. In a canoe in current I’d be swept away. I’m sure I will take it to the Everglades for redfishing and  the Keys and Bahamas for bonefishing just as I took it to Martha’s Vineyard for stripers, blues, and bonito. The kayak is fast, too.  If getting to a destination is your objective, you will expend much less energy and have more time for fishing if you use kayak rather than a canoe. As far as casting from the kayak goes it has yet to be a problem–I just keep the backcast high–no need to stand. As far as storage goes, I keep most of what I need in a waterproof deck bag and waterproof bags in the hull. Folding kayaks are not inexpensive; but for the ability to take it wherever I want to fish, it’s worth it. Good luck, Darren Lew New York, NY

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It is actually pretty hard to tip a family/fishing type canoe. The first thing you should do is go out and tip yours on purpose (or tip a demo model before you buy). Learn how it reacts, and what it takes to tip it. Do this with two people – have one stand and the other make some sudden moves.

I used to stand up while surfing waves in my Blue Hole in my wilder days of youth ;- In my experience, in most cases the canoe stays upright when someone standing in it falls out. The canoe gets "pushed out of the way" rather than capsizing, or the person loses footing and trips trying to regain it in the confines of a canoe (most come with rather small dance floors). In a wide keeled boat, this is less likely to happen, but it still is a risk. Even small jon boats exhibit this "snatch-the-rug" behavior. The pedestals in bass boats are there largely for stability; people aren’t that good at standing in small areas without something to lean on for any length of time. Try marking off a small rectangle and stand in it casting for a while without stepping outside of it. I would plan on sitting to cast most of the time. If (big if when you are as sloppy as I am) you have a nice tight loop it doesn’t need to drop below shoulder level anyway. -Andy

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writes: Canoe probably your best bet. Its only draw back is the extra weight. I have a poke boat which is a semi covered deck, very light, kayak like boat. Its great for getting around, but forget even kneeling in it. In a canoe you could, with care, stand to cast. I. Clair

Alot depends on the canoe. I have a mad river winoski that I have no problem standing in however, the tradoff for that stabality is speed. Other models are faster than my boat some are more durable, less durable, lighter or heavier. Boats vary alot in what they are designed for, you may want to take a look at rec.boats.paddle. Also get a honest idea of what you want from a boat, then go talk to a dealer that knows boats. Canoes are canoes in the same way cars are cars, if you need a pickup you will never be satisfied with a civic. Lastly, the main item that keep me away from a Poke is I need the versitility that a canoe offers. I can carry two adults ,my lab and decoys. Yet, it is not too much boat for one person to fish from solo. Charles

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David…I would recommend a canoe based on your intended use. I currently have two We-No-Nah canoes which are incredible for their intended use, the c-1 for racing and the tandem for backcountry touring. For your use a basic Coleman or Old Town would be fine, why spend the bucks for weight savings or paddling efficiency when you can get what you need for a quarter of the cost? Since you are not going to do any major carries or long distance paddling stick with the basics. By the way if you do go with a canoe I still wouldn’t advise on standing to cast. Good luck with your decision. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am considering purchasing a canoe or kayak for quick trips to the lakes, rivers and bays for fly fishing and recreation around Houston.  Most of the time I will be fishing alone, but would like to take my son or another friend at times.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – David, I e-mailed you the other day, but I think I forgot to send it. Duhh! Anyway, I’ll repeat what I wrote and you can ignore this if I did send. If you are planning to take two kids along you will need a canoe. It is challenging for three people to fly fish from a canoe. You’ll have to take turns casting. If you want to have a real blast fishing solo, try a Keowee. ……. VISUALLY SPEAKING, from an outsider’s point of view.  Visual Pollution is just as real as many other forms.  I imagine, to someone of your generation, fly fishing out of a kayak, to many of us would be like seeing a whale turd in a party punch-bowl.  You not only don’t like looking at it, you wouldn’t use it either.  Yet, float tubes are another matter and I cannot explain to you why.  Go for a canoe, my friend. nuff said. George Gehrke

So far, great responses and advice, and all is appreciated.  At this point, I will approach the purchase by several methods, all tempered with everyone’s input (even George’s – more later).  In Houston, we have REI and Sun & Ski Sports stores, as well as others that will rent kayaks and canoes.  I intend to try several.  Also, I have found several kayak and canoe clubs that give demonstrations and/or lessons.  Knowledge is a powerful tool, especially when so cheaply obtained!  To George – I not only explained to my 9 year old son the visual nuances and social faux pax of a "whale turd in a party punch bowl", but also of some peoples’ intolerance to the lifestyles of others.  Gee, I am in my mid forties with gray hair, yet you seem to believe I am some twenty year old doing an endo and scaring the trout – although whitewater kayaking is on my to-do list. Imagine the visual pollution of the first bamboo rod to a greenheart rod holder, the first fiberglass rod to a bamboo holder, the first graphite rod to a fiberglass rod holder!  Is your mode of transportation a horse, a Model T, a `57 Chevy, a bicycle, a Viper, a bus??!!?  Yet, ornithopters are another matter, and I cannot explain to you why, my friend. "Strive to leave for our children a better world, then they will do the same for theirs."     – David Hinners

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Hikers need to understand something. Hiking boots are not made to walk in concrete. The soles are usually to soft. The concrete eats them up. If you plan to do some street hiking, go with a Timberland boot or somehing like that. If you really want a ‘hiking boot’, go with the Sundowners, Newbriers, or Skywalks. That way, WHEN you wear down the soles, you can get them resoled. Hal Why is misuse of a product the responsibility of the manufacturer? : My Vasque Hiker II’s lasted for 11 years and my Montagna’s for ten.  I : thought I’d never wear any other brand.  But the new styles seem to be : narrower and I’ve now switched to Raichle for fit.  I’d use caution : with the lightweight (leather/fabric) styles.  I bought a pair of : Vasque Clarion hiking shoes and destroyed them in six months on the : streets.

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Anyone have Vasque boots.  How are they made are they durable?  Thanks.

Vasque (at least a couple of years ago) had a policy that if the leather uppers start to come appart before the sole is completely worn, they would repair or replace the boots at no charge. I bought a pair of discontinued all leather Vasque boots at a rock bottom sale price of $75 several years ago.  When the sole began to seperate from one boot a few years later, I took them back to the store to get them repaired. (at the time I was unaware of the policy, loved the boots, and was willing pay to have the boots repaired).  The store sent the boots back to Vasque and a few weeks later the store called and said that Vasque was willing to give me a $130 credit (the original retail price of the boots) towards another pair.  I took them up on the offer and picked up a pair of $190 New Briers. My current roommate had the same experience with the same type of Vasque boots (I think they were "Libertys") and he used his credit to purchase Sundowners.

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I waterproofed the leather on my Sundowners (which have been fantastic) just in case, but remember that even if the boot is waterproof, you can still get wet feet from water/snow coming in the top of the boot.  Don’t forget gaiters if you’re hiking in snow or in cold rain!  :)

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Newbriers, or Skywalks. That way, WHEN you wear down the soles, you can get them resoled.

My mileage varried!  On my 4 pairs of Skywalks, Sundowners and Newbriers the soles all came off before I had a chance to wear them down!  Luckily they stood behind their product and replaced them.  I have since grown tired of that game and got a pair of Raichles with a real stitched sole. Good Luck,                 Whitney

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Re: Vasque boots Over rocks, through streams, over snow, over dirt, over anything, my Vasque Sundowners have been _fantastic_.  I go up to people trying them on in stores and tell these total strangers that my boots have saved my life on winter hikes (since I have never gotten wet feet while wearing these boots, even on eight hour hikes through wet snow,etc.)  I have never gotten a blister, never slipped off a wet rock, never had any reason except to recommend these boots!!!  I say thumbs up!  Buy ‘em!

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Anyone have Vasque boots.  How are they made are they durable?  Thanks.

I have had my Vasque Sundowners for three years now.  Great boots.  Sturdy one piece upper construction.  Solid yet flexible sole. They break in IMHO quickly.  They are my winter boots (NYC), hiking, and allaround  walking shoes from Oct-April.  I have gone flyfishing with them-a few hours in waist deep H2O- came homw cleaned them and waxed them a week later– they came back with great flexibility.  I just spent a week out west, Zion, Bryce, GC. One hike was in Bryce-900 feet down and up during a 3 hour hike, on some quite steep trails.  Never had a blister, actually since I bought them.  I can’t say enough about them. I will definitely buy a new pair, if they are still made when I need to do such- in about six years, after having been resoled a few times. That reminds me, I have to clean them again and get the red Utah dirt off of them. Hope this sways your decision. Brian CHarles — Brian Charles

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        I just bought a new pair of sundownsers also.  I got them for pretty cheap ($160 on sale).  They fit the best out of all the boots I tried.  I would recommend them also, just make sure to try on several brands and pick the ones that fit the best. (Look at http://io.datasys.swri.edu/PATC/startout.html for boot fitting info.)         Does anyone use snoseal on their sundowners?  Or do you trust the gortex? Josh — —  Senior M.E. Student & Computer Aided Engineering          – —      Laboratory Partner                                      – —  Engineering School – The hardest four years or the        – —                       easiest six years of your life.      –

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        Does anyone use snoseal on their sundowners?  Or do you trust the gortex?

I didn’t have time to seal them before I left on their first trip (I know, I know, I just didn’t *make* the time…), but they were quite waterproof nonetheless.  The leather did suffer quite a bit, however, from scuffing — I was in canyon country, very rocky.  Sealing them later has helped the scuffing, I think.  And I’m sure it has increased the waterproof-ness of the boots — but as I said, I never had any problems in the first place. Still, I think it would be irresponsible not to seal them.

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Their cheaper models are for light hiking. Their midrange models are for heavy hiking/light backpacking. And their high end are for heavy backpacking. If you used the ‘cheap model’ for heavy use, I’m not at all surprised. If you told your sales person that you needed them for heavy use, he should have recommended a better pair. I work at an outdoor shop that sells Vasque and I know that any knowledgable salesperson should know the uses for the different levels of boots. Hal

: I hate to disagree with all the others, but I’ve had two pairs of Vasque : boots and neither lasted worth beans.  One was a cheap model and it wore : out VERY quickly (two months hard use).  I ascribed this to the cost of : the model — since I’d also heard Vasques were good — and bought an

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –         I just bought a new pair of sundownsers also.  I got them for pretty cheap ($160 on sale).  They fit the best out of all the boots I tried.  I would recommend them also, just make sure to try on several brands and pick the ones that fit the best. (Look at http://io.datasys.swri.edu/PATC/startout.html for boot fitting info.)         Does anyone use snoseal on their sundowners?  Or do you trust the gortex? Josh — —  Senior M.E. Student & Computer Aided Engineering          – —      Laboratory Partner                                      – —  Engineering School – The hardest four years or the        – —                       easiest six years of your life.      –

I use Nikwax cleaner/conditioner and then apply a layer of Nikwax aqueous wax. The bottle says apply 2 or 3 layers for best results but one protects the leather well and provides for an easy clean up and retreat. The only time my feet have gotten wet in my Sundowners (4 years, great shape) is when the water is deeper than the boots are tall. Great boots! — Thanx for your interest. Tom "The thinner the air gets, the clearer my head gets."

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I like the Vasque boots I’ve owned better than any others.  My only negative observation:  in Scotland in December, walking on cold and very slippery beach stones in the western islands, I tended to slip more often than my friends, who wore boots with harder soles.  My Vasques now are the lightweight type with canvas plus leather uppers and fairly spongy soles, and the soles are now fairly smooth (I’ll need a new pair soon).  I found that in Scotland the cold made the soles a bit stiff and because they were smooth they were also slick. That’s not a complaint with Vasque boots, though!         Una Smith —         Una Smith               Department of Biology – OML                                 Yale University

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Anyone have Vasque boots.  How are they made are they durable?  Thanks.

I like them quite a bit.  They tend to run wide, which fits my feet.  My younger son has similar feet and he’s gone through a couple of pairs of Vasques over the years.  Mine have worn quite well.

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My Sundowners have never let me down.

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I wear my Vasque in the same Utah scree fields and don’t have much of a problem.  (All leather) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone have Vasque boots. Yes, lots of people do–otherwise they wouldn’t be in business How are they made I don’t know how they are made. Presumably there’s some sort of factory like set up… are they durable?   Yes, if you never hike in rocks while wearing them.  I was going to get a pair of their $180ish (I can’t remember the name) boots but everyone I talked to who also hikes reccomended against them.  In the scree fields of the Utah mountains (where I walk most of the time), Vasque got a definite thumbs down. your milage may vary, mike.

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My Vasque Hiker II’s lasted for 11 years and my Montagna’s for ten.  I thought I’d never wear any other brand.  But the new styles seem to be narrower and I’ve now switched to Raichle for fit.  I’d use caution with the lightweight (leather/fabric) styles.  I bought a pair of Vasque Clarion hiking shoes and destroyed them in six months on the streets.

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I hate to disagree with all the others, but I’ve had two pairs of Vasque boots and neither lasted worth beans.  One was a cheap model and it wore out VERY quickly (two months hard use).  I ascribed this to the cost of the model — since I’d also heard Vasques were good — and bought an expensive pair (all leather) at a local shop.  These lasted a bit longer, but I’ve certainly had MUCH better durability with other brands. The Vasques were, I must admit, totally hip and extremely comfortable though. — "Die young late in life!!!"                           http://www.unm.edu/~pflo

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        You say your boots `wore out’. What wore out, the leather         portion or the sole? If it was the leather I’m surprised; mine         have lasted many years and I wear them every day. If it was the         sole that wore down, why don’t you have them resoled? I know         the last time I had mine done (by Morin Boots, Evergreen CO.         fyi) I was able to choose between a Vasque sole or soles from         other big name manufactures. I decided to stay with Vasque         because the softer material seems to grip very well.                 Scott   Marquette Electronics    8200 West Tower Avenue    Milwaukee, WI 53223             As anyone here will tell you: I speak for myself.        

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Anyone have Vasque boots.  How are they made are they durable?  Thanks.

I love my Vasques – have used them for 4 years now – first in Nepal and now at home in Vermont.  Mine are the Gore-tex sided.  They were recommended by the outfitting shop over all the others they stocked and I have never been disappointed.  I have a friend who has the more expensive all-leather Vasques and he is equally satisfied.  One thing – I have always worn my boots with Thorlo Trekking-weight socks.  This may be key.

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I believe Vasque all-leather Gore-tex boots are issue for National Park Rangers.  I don’t wear them because they don’t fit me comfortably.   That’s the most important aspect of any boot.  I wear a comparable Asolo which is very comfortable for me.  When you buy boots, make very sure they fit properly.  Fit varies according to manufacturer.

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: Anyone have Vasque boots.  How are they made are they durable?  Thanks.         I bought my first pair of Vasque boots in 1990.  Since then I have put them through quite a bit of wear and tear and they still remain in good shape.  Since I bought those boots so many years ago, my feet have grown AND Vasque has redesigned their boots, so I thought it was time to get a new pair.  About a year ago I bought a pair of Vasque Clarion Impacts for $105. I love them!  My little brother still wears my first pair of Vasque Clarions.         In all, I hear that Vasque makes good boots, and I totally agree!  I have also heard good things about the Vasque Sundowners and the Gore-tex Clarion Impact. -David B. Buckingham dbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbd bdbdb  UofL, Speed Scientific School                                         TIP#1836                             David Bryan Buckingham                              (502)397-5496 (pager)  Triangle Fraternity                                         HSC Lab Consultant dbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbd bdbdb

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Anyone have Vasque boots.  How are they made are they durable?  Thanks.

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Anyone have Vasque boots.

Yes, lots of people do–otherwise they wouldn’t be in business How are they made

I don’t know how they are made. Presumably there’s some sort of factory like set up… are they durable?  

Yes, if you never hike in rocks while wearing them.  I was going to get a pair of their $180ish (I can’t remember the name) boots but everyone I talked to who also hikes reccomended against them.  In the scree fields of the Utah mountains (where I walk most of the time), Vasque got a definite thumbs down. your milage may vary, mike.

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