Question:
Thanks for the help, guys…. SpEEdo… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – He’s asking 17,500 on the side of it. It’s a helluva deal with that big tuna tower and all the fishing rigging. However, I’ve talked to 8 long-time sport fishermen about it and they told me Pacemaker had some I had one of these (1973) for sale two years ago. It is great for near coastal cruising.. It has a relatively low center of gravity making it very stable. It isn’t a full V hull as it is very flat in the stern. This allows it acess to shallower water, but makes it pound more in the steep chop. The flying bridge is fairly small. but adequate. The fellow who bought it uses it in the L.I. sound regularly, and loves it. There was no problem with blisters or delaminations. I think the $17,000 is a little high even rigged for offshore. I sold the one at my place for $12,000 with two near new engines. No fishing equiptment though. Boatbasin http://www.boatbasin.com
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<snip However, I’ve talked to 8 long-time sport fishermen about it and they told me Pacemaker had some AWFUL problems with blisters, delaminations and other ugly things that put the company out of business…..yecch.
What years were the eight? An old-time marine surveyor told me that boats made before the Arab oil embargo of the mid-seventies had few if any problems with blisters. Only after the embargo hit and oil prices went sky-high did manufacturers start tampering with resin formulations and unknowingly create blister city. The boat in question is a ‘72 model and may be perfectly blister-free. Bill, W7TI
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He’s asking 17,500 on the side of it. It’s a helluva deal with that big tuna tower and all the fishing rigging. However, I’ve talked to 8 long-time sport fishermen about it and they told me Pacemaker had some
I had one of these (1973) for sale two years ago. It is great for near coastal cruising.. It has a relatively low center of gravity making it very stable. It isn’t a full V hull as it is very flat in the stern. This allows it acess to shallower water, but makes it pound more in the steep chop. The flying bridge is fairly small. but adequate. The fellow who bought it uses it in the L.I. sound regularly, and loves it. There was no problem with blisters or delaminations. I think the $17,000 is a little high even rigged for offshore. I sold the one at my place for $12,000 with two near new engines. No fishing equiptment though. Boatbasin http://www.boatbasin.com
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There’s one for sale in Charleston I have to walk by every time I go to my bud’s sailboat. It had a little smoke damage from a fire in a home air conditioner he used but has been completely restored inside. It has radar/sonar/GPS/tv/microwave/Loran/2 alarms/lights/water/well, you get the idea. He’s asking 17,500 on the side of it. It’s a helluva deal with that big tuna tower and all the fishing rigging. However, I’ve talked to 8 long-time sport fishermen about it and they told me Pacemaker had some AWFUL problems with blisters, delaminations and other ugly things that put the company out of business…..yecch. Sure is tempting….it’s still floating, the new AC/heat pump is pumping and I see lights inside the stained-glass windows….(c; SpEEdo – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am considering a 30′ Pacemaker – 1972. The owner says the model is Sportfish, but it sure has a small cockpit. It has a fly bridge and lower helm station which behind the step down salon/galley. This open helm area extends quite a way into the cockpit and includes the engine hatches (it has a fighting chair) and the cockpit seems quite short. I wonder if this is more a Cruiser model than a SF and if I’d get a better fishing boat if I looked for a later model. Does anyone have any knowledge of these models? I have looked in the "Sportfishing Boats 28-82′" guide and the oldest Pacemaker they show is a 1973 that has a different layout. The boat is in very good condition with outriggers, 489 hrs on 220/hp chryslers, older electronics (no GPS or radar) – he is asking $19K. Does this sound reasonable?? Thanks!
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I am considering a 30′ Pacemaker – 1972. The owner says the model is Sportfish, but it sure has a small cockpit. It has a fly bridge and lower helm station which behind the step down salon/galley. This open helm area extends quite a way into the cockpit and includes the engine hatches (it has a fighting chair) and the cockpit seems quite short. I wonder if this is more a Cruiser model than a SF and if I’d get a better fishing boat if I looked for a later model. Does anyone have any knowledge of these models? I have looked in the "Sportfishing Boats 28-82′" guide and the oldest Pacemaker they show is a 1973 that has a different layout. The boat is in very good condition with outriggers, 489 hrs on 220/hp chryslers, older electronics (no GPS or radar) – he is asking $19K. Does this sound reasonable?? Thanks!
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I wouldn’t trust the reliability of the hourmeter. You need both a survey and a mechanic to check out your boat to decide if 19K is a good price. — — Jim Proud, but feeble minded Regal Owner Three can keep a secret, if two of them are dead.
| I am considering a 30′ Pacemaker – 1972. The owner says the model is | Sportfish, but it sure has a small cockpit. It has a fly bridge and lower | helm station which behind the step down salon/galley. This open helm area | extends quite a way into the cockpit and includes the engine hatches (it has | a fighting chair) and the cockpit seems quite short. | | I wonder if this is more a Cruiser model than a SF and if I’d get a better | fishing boat if I looked for a later model. Does anyone have any knowledge of | these models? I have looked in the "Sportfishing Boats 28-82′" guide and the | oldest Pacemaker they show is a 1973 that has a different layout. | | The boat is in very good condition with outriggers, 489 hrs on 220/hp | chryslers, older electronics (no GPS or radar) – he is asking $19K. Does this | sound reasonable?? | | Thanks! |
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Question:
Joel, you are a man after my own heart. About the only difference is I fish dry flies and I do have a #1 Hoffman grizzly saddle which ties magnificent dry flies, and each hackle will tie 4 to 7 flies. Ernie Harrison I’ve learned to become an ecconomical tyer over the years. I have a real
difficult time spending $60 plus on a chicken skin, so when I fish dries it usually comparaduns,
sparkle duns, LaFontaine – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Emergers, terrestrials, etc. They all work and float great and there’s no expensive hackle involved. jka
Response:
Discounting my time, I figure a fly costs me $0.05-0.10 each to make.
Where do you buy your hooks? I pay over 10 cents each buying them in 100 packs? Willi
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve learned to become an ecconomical tyer over the years. I have a real difficult time spending $60 plus on a chicken skin, so when I fish dries it usually comparaduns, sparkle duns, LaFontaine Emergers, terrestrials, etc. They all work and float great and there’s no expensive hackle involved. <Snip If you got to have all the bells and whistles and if you refuse to improvise a little, sure, you’ll spend a fortune on this hobby. But at this point in the game I spend far less a year on materials than I would on "quality" flies at $1.75 or more each. jka Have you tried the Tom Thumb? It is THE dry fly in British Columbia. Can be fished as a caddis or mayfly imitation and uses three materials: hook, working thread, and deer hair. It is described in The Gilly. — Vic Brockett Vic’s Fly-By-Night http://www.navicom.com/~vic I’ve learned to become an ecconomical tyer over the years. I have a real difficult time spending $60 plus on a chicken skin, so when I fish dries it usually comparaduns, sparkle duns, LaFontaine Emergers, terrestrials, etc. They all work and float great and there’s no expensive hackle involved. <Snip If you got to have all the bells and whistles and if you refuse to improvise a little, sure, you’ll spend a fortune on this hobby. But at this point in the game I spend far less a year on materials than I would on "quality" flies at $1.75 or more each. jka
Have you tried the Tom Thumb? It is THE dry fly in British Columbia. Can be fished as a caddis or mayfly imitation and uses three materials: hook, working thread, and deer hair. It is described in The Gilly. — Vic Brockett Vic’s Fly-By-Night http://www.navicom.com/~vic
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<Bulk of excellent reply snipped Then there are the "secret" patterns, a few of which are not available anywhere but on my vice and that of a couple close friends. Discounting my time, I figure a fly costs me $0.05-0.10 each to make. The time is no big deal, I usually tie on those slow Sundays when I’m actively not watching some sports megaevent on TV, or during the long cold winters here in Maine. tight lines!
Dave I think you hit it right on the head. Tying gives you the ability to produce exactly what you need to catch fish on a consistant basis on your local streams/rivers. Plus it’s fun, plus, what do you do in Wisconsin when it’s -30 with wind chill in Wisconsin in February???? 
Tight lines, Steve Hering
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I notice that the responses to this original post are now starting to take on the notion of defending fly tying for its own sake. A cause which I believe I showed support for in the original post. Please understand that I love tying flies and that I think it worth every penny I’ve ever spent (and will continue to spend) in the future. Also, I’m not surprised that some of you out there who fish more often actually do manage to get a ‘volume discount’ on your flies by tying them yourselves. My original intent was meant to coax a wry smile from fellow tiers who are still ‘over capitalized’ with regard to their supply of fly tying materials….and probably will remain so for some time. My hats off to all of you who have managed to tie economically. (Actually, I don’t envy you so much for your money saving acumen as I do for the fact that you are probably saving because you go fishing a lot more than I do!)– -dnc- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here’s one in the "jokes-on-me" category. How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? (Don’t get me wrong. I get a lot of fun out of tying, and it’s hard to think of anything better than site casting a dry you tied to a fish and having him get fooled. But I still have to laugh at myself about my initial misconception about tying.) -dnc-
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D., You obviously haven’t bought your first #1 neck yet. It’ll more than double your initial $60 outlay. (And getting that vise for free is cheating!). If you really get into tying, and you are interested in tying many different patterns, let me know how it all works out, a couple years from now (after your s.o. has left you for a more frugal s.o.). The $10000 may be an exaggeration (or maybe not, maybe the guy bought some Dodo feathers???), but I have spent at least $500 so far, and I’m not nearly as well set up as some of the really good tyers I know. If you are economically able to tie a variety of flies, and you aren’t lucky enough to have your buddies give you all the necessary materials, I’d be more than happy to suffer the slings and arrows of a ‘told-you-so’ from you (just as long as it’s accompanied by some useful hints on how I might likewise economize)– -dnc- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – < 10k in equipment? Not saving money tying flies? Where you guys shopping? Just started tying. …. [snip] have a total investment of 60 bucks.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? …….But I still have to laugh at myself about my initial misconception about tying.) -dnc- I completely disagree with you. I figure it costs me less than 50 cents per fly, and I have a less than $10,000 in equipment and materials. Paul < 10k in equipment? Not saving money tying flies? Where you guys shopping? Just started tying. Vise was free, used, but holds a hook no problems. Bobbin, couple types of scissors, thread, tinsel, wire, dubbing, herl, shaved a few bunnies at a friends ranch, mask, pheasant tail, etc…. I have a total investment of 60 bucks. I have tied about 40 flies so far. Where I live 40 flies = 40 bucks, at least. How could you not save money, even eventually as Paul (10k ??? are you serious? Nah, can’t be.) pointed out. I spend about 15 bucks avg on flies each trip, at least. Figure30-40 trips a year of varying degrees and I save lots of money every year. Ok, I’m ready to justify that Renzetti to my s.o. D. Howell
Denial!!! Plus, "I’m ready to justify that Renzetti to my s.o."… That’s a sure sign that there’s another one hooked pretty good…. You should save your note and review it and your inventory of tying stuff in five years…. Greg
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– dave’s homepage madness http://www.ime.net/~dbottom Discounting my time, I figure a fly costs me $0.05-0.10 each to make. Where do you buy your hooks? I pay over 10 cents each buying them in 100 packs? Willi
I got hooks coming out my ears for most styles…but the last box of hooks I bought, 94840’s were about $5.50 so maybe the estimate was slightly low..given that those hooks cost 5.5 cents each, 10 cents is still pretty close on the cost dave — dave’s homepage madness http://www.ime.net/~dbottom
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve learned to become an ecconomical tyer over the years. I have a real difficult time spending $60 plus on a chicken skin, so when I fish dries it usually comparaduns, sparkle duns, LaFontaine Emergers, terrestrials, etc. They all work and float great and there’s no expensive hackle involved. <Snip If you got to have all the bells and whistles and if you refuse to improvise a little, sure, you’ll spend a fortune on this hobby. But at this point in the game I spend far less a year on materials than I would on "quality" flies at $1.75 or more each. jka
Have you tried the Tom Thumb? It is THE dry fly in British Columbia. Can be fished as a caddis or mayfly imitation and uses three materials: hook, working thread, and deer hair. It is described in The Gilly. — Vic Brockett Vic’s Fly-By-Night http://www.navicom.com/~vic
Response:
How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money?
Initially, I thought that I would save some money. And in fact, I do (or I will after I tie many more flies). My problem is that I enjoy tying new and different flies, therefore, I am always adding new materials that keeps the cost per fly high. I have found that tying my own flies adds a dimension to my fishing. Every time I tie one, I end up imagining where and what I will catch with it. Most of all, I enjoy the satisfaction of tying a good fly. The response from others to what I do has been phenomenal. I love to see the look on people’s faces when I show them a good fly and tell them that I have tied it. It makes for some great conversation. All in all it is unbeatable M. Richardson
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Good point. Actually, given a moderate inflation rate, you may actually break even a few years earlier. Me too. Gosh. I guess I don’t feel so bad now! — -dnc- Here’s one in the "jokes-on-me" category. How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money?
Paul Wilson responded – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I completely disagree with you. I figure it costs me less than 50 cents per fly, and I have a less than $10,000 in equipment and materials. What the heck, after the age of 150, I’ll be saving money buddy!
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Its not about saving money!! If that were the case we wouldn’t be in this sport. It’s about fooling the bass (trout) into believing that what you tied is for real. It’s about relaxing and expounding you horizons – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here’s one in the "jokes-on-me" category. How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? (Don’t get me wrong. I get a lot of fun out of tying, and it’s hard to think of anything better than site casting a dry you tied to a fish and having him get fooled. But I still have to laugh at myself about my initial misconception about tying.) -dnc-
Response:
I’ve learned to become an ecconomical tyer over the years. I have a real difficult time spending $60 plus on a chicken skin, so when I fish dries it usually comparaduns, sparkle duns, LaFontaine Emergers, terrestrials, etc. They all work and float great and there’s no expensive hackle involved. Actually, I fish nymphs about 70% or better of the time. You can tie a lot of Pheasant Tails and Hare’s Ears for next to nothing. I figure each fly probably cost me 10-20 cents. The main kicker is that once you a become proficient tyer, you can tye a heck of a lot better fly than you buy I also refuse to spend the extra money for Tiemco hooks. Mustad’s quality and the styles offered have improved over recent years and they’re a heck of a lot more reasonably priced. If you got to have all the bells and whistles and if you refuse to improvise a little, sure, you’ll spend a fortune on this hobby. But at this point in the game I spend far less a year on materials than I would on "quality" flies at $1.75 or more each. jka
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Sandman, When I got into fly fishing it wasn’t expensive. My entire outfit cost less than $100, and that included fly tying equipment. I still have much of it today and still use it. Of course the addiction today is the same as it was then. Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Its not about saving money!! If that were the case we wouldn’t be in this sport. It’s about fooling the bass (trout) into believing that what you tied is for real. It’s about relaxing and expounding you horizons
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How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? …….But I still have to laugh at myself about my initial misconception about tying.) -dnc-
Well I did. over the past 15 years I’ve paid out probably between $600-800 for tools and materials, and at an average cost of $1.50 a fly I’ve probably saved alot. I now have most materials in abundance, perhaps more than I’ll use for the rest of my life. About all I purchase now are hooks, head cement, and occasional spool of thread and hackle every few years, though I do lust after a really good rotating vice, maybe this year…. I go through 50-100 flies a year, and usually give a bunch away to some budding angler, which makes their day. I Also feel that the quality of my flies is much higher than commercial flies, even those bought at premium shops like LL Beans. I have also modified many patterns to fit the local hatches better, and as a result I believe that I catch more and bigger fish. Tying gives you the option to experiment with materials like white skunk, which is very straight and translucent when wet, or to tie up maribou versions of popular streamers like a grey ghost that work much better in moving waters. Then there are the "secret" patterns, a few of which are not available anywhere but on my vice and that of a couple close friends. Discounting my time, I figure a fly costs me $0.05-0.10 each to make. The time is no big deal, I usually tie on those slow Sundays when I’m actively not watching some sports megaevent on TV, or during the long cold winters here in Maine. tight lines!
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In tying, unlike fishing, if you do everything just right, you will definitely be rewarded – with a nice fly! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? D. Howell
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? …….But I still have to laugh at myself about my initial misconception about tying.) -dnc- I completely disagree with you. I figure it costs me less than 50 cents per fly, and I have a less than $10,000 in equipment and materials. Paul < 10k in equipment? Not saving money tying flies? Where you guys shopping? Just started tying. Vise was free, used, but holds a hook no problems. Bobbin, couple types of scissors, thread, tinsel, wire, dubbing, herl, shaved a few bunnies at a friends ranch, mask, pheasant tail, etc…. I have a total investment of 60 bucks. I have tied about 40 flies so far. Where I live 40 flies = 40 bucks, at least. How could you not save money, even eventually as Paul (10k ??? are you serious? Nah, can’t be.) pointed out. I spend about 15 bucks avg on flies each trip, at least. Figure30-40 trips a year of varying degrees and I save lots of money every year. Ok, I’m ready to justify that Renzetti to my s.o. D. Howell
Response:
Here’s one in the "jokes-on-me" category. How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money?
I did save a lot of money. The first year I lost so many flies in the trees and bushes that I found they had started their own hatch when I went back the next year.
You are the man, Ernie! Do you give classes?
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How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? …….But I still have to laugh at myself about my initial misconception about tying.) -dnc- I completely disagree with you. I figure it costs me less than 50 cents per fly, and I have a less than $10,000 in equipment and materials. Paul
< 10k in equipment? Not saving money tying flies? Where you guys shopping? Just started tying. Vise was free, used, but holds a hook no problems. Bobbin, couple types of scissors, thread, tinsel, wire, dubbing, herl, shaved a few bunnies at a friends ranch, mask, pheasant tail, etc…. I have a total investment of 60 bucks. I have tied about 40 flies so far. Where I live 40 flies = 40 bucks, at least. How could you not save money, even eventually as Paul (10k ??? are you serious? Nah, can’t be.) pointed out. I spend about 15 bucks avg on flies each trip, at least. Figure30-40 trips a year of varying degrees and I save lots of money every year. Ok, I’m ready to justify that Renzetti to my s.o. D. Howell
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Here’s one in the "jokes-on-me" category. How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money?
I did save a lot of money. The first year I lost so many flies in the trees and bushes that I found they had started their own hatch when I went back the next year. Ernie Harrison
Response:
Here’s one in the "jokes-on-me" category. How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? (Don’t get me wrong. I get a lot of fun out of tying, and it’s hard to think of anything better than site casting a dry you tied to a fish and having him get fooled. But I still have to laugh at myself about my initial misconception about tying.) -dnc-
I completely disagree with you. I figure it costs me less than 50 cents per fly, and I have a less than $10,000 in equipment and materials. What the heck, after the age of 150, I’ll be saving money buddy! Paul
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Here’s one in the "jokes-on-me" category. How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? (Don’t get me wrong. I get a lot of fun out of tying, and it’s hard to think of anything better than site casting a dry you tied to a fish and having him get fooled. But I still have to laugh at myself about my initial misconception about tying.) -dnc-
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Question:
Geez, Folks, this topic has used too many ergs and is getting mighty boring. It has digressed from flyfishing and descended into the pit of insult, confrontational commentary, and foolishness. Once the useful comments and opinions have been "voiced," you can let the thread die …. please. I’ve tried to block the subject, but I guess I’ll have to create a broader "twit filter" and block authors. Is this a flyfishing newsgroup or not?
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Geez, Folks, this topic has used too many ergs and is getting mighty boring. It has digressed from flyfishing and descended
Look at the subject list today man…you want BORING ? "For Sale, ex-Wifes wader suspenders", "should i fish upstream or down", "how many split shots blah blah..", "removing the smell from the glove compartment of my 1964 rambler", etc. etc. etc. ad nauseum. Just like the magazines these days…SOS regurgitated…only a forum for ads, newbies and places for the rich to go on vacation. I’ve cancelled all of my subscriptions. Now, look at the net man. Instant ‘letters and feedback to the editors’…discussions, arguments, points of view…way cool… and PETA ? Christ almighty man, NOTHING is more relevant to the sport than a group of people who would piss out the flyfishing flame with their manhatten breed of fish coddling piss. And the beauty of it all is…*YOU* can decide to read it or not. This morning, personally, I read the lone PETA article and marked the rest as read… You say… Is this a flyfishing newsgroup or not?
and I say, it most certainly is…and it’s perfect. Tim Walker
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Geez, Folks, this topic has used too many ergs and is getting mighty boring. It has digressed from flyfishing and descended Look at the subject list today man…you want BORING ? Now, look at the net man. Instant ‘letters and feedback to the editors’…discussions, arguments, points of view…way cool… and PETA ? Christ almighty man, NOTHING is more relevant to the sport than a group of people who would piss out the flyfishing flame with their manhatten breed of fish coddling piss. And the beauty of it all is…*YOU* can decide to read it or not. This morning, personally, I read the lone PETA article and marked the rest as read… You say… Is this a flyfishing newsgroup or not? and I say, it most certainly is…and it’s perfect. Tim Walker
Tim, I have no disagreement with you that PETA is an important topic. And, I was following it daily. My coment was that the interaction had gotten away from the topic and dipped into unrelated confrontational commentary. If the respondents maintain the topic – that’s great…. When it turns to idiocy – that’s worthless ….
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