Question:

There are some theories based on comparative analysis of DNA from rainbows native to this region versus that from rainbows native further north which point at them possibly being genetically the least changed and therefore the oldest. This is alluded to by Loev in his book "Flyfishing For Sharks."

Someone once told me that rainbow trout originated on the Pacific coast of Siberia. This guy is an outfitter on the Kamchatka Peninsula, so I took it with a grain of salt (bullshit detectors at work, Wayno , but it’s an interesting idea. I’m pretty sure that rainbows are native to Siberia, so there’s no reason they might not have originated there rather than in North America. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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I’m pretty sure that rainbows are native to Siberia, so there’s no reason they might not have originated there rather than in North America.

Rainbows originated in the North Pacific basin, along with cutts and Pacific salmon. They were first classified by a Swedish scientist studying fish from Kamchatka, but there is no real evidence that they actually evolved there.

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Someone once told me that rainbow trout originated on the Pacific coast of Siberia. This guy is an outfitter on the Kamchatka Peninsula, so I took it with a grain of salt (bullshit detectors at work, Wayno , but it’s an interesting idea. I’m pretty sure that rainbows are native to Siberia, so there’s no reason they might not have originated there rather than in North America.

The Russians certainly think this.  There are even some that think there’s evidence Oncorhynchus sp. as a group originated there.  The evidence is purely phenotypic, though, and they concede the evidence admits other possibilities.  Go to: http://www.psmfc.org/workshops/shconf98.html and scroll down to the last abstract, "The Diversity of Pacific Trouts in Kamchatkan Water Bodies". A "final" answer will probably have to await complete sequencing of the DNA from a number of native populations across the entire range of the species.  That’s no doubt a long way off.  There’s a lot of research being done on the genetics of rainbow trout (a complete nucleotide sequence for mitochondrial DNA was published in ‘95).  Much, probably most, of it is on hatchery and/or introduced populations rather than native ones. JR

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… a complete nucleotide sequence for mitochondrial DNA was published in ‘95) …

Datapoint – within each cell of a human, there is one strand of mitochondrial DNA and 23 pairs (46 strands) of nuclear DNA. For salmon/trout, there is again just one strand of mitochondrial DNA but anywhere from ~26 to 39 pairs of nuclear DNA. The mitochondrial DNA is interesting because it is passed down maternally, so it is useful for tracking lineage. It is also the case that it is only ~16,500 base pairs (roughly letters) long and not highly variable. Nuclear DNA (also called genomic or genetic DNA) on the other hand is passed down from both parents, is constantly mixed up in each individual, and is really the stuff that controls who/what each of us is and or could be. In humans, genetic DNA represents roughly 3 billion base pairs, and in salmon/trout, roughly 2.4 billion base pairs. Many fish studies to date have tried to draw conclusions from the easier-to-work-with mitochondrial DNA, but the really interesting results will come from an in-depth study of the nuclear DNA.  As of last year, the more advanced studies going on in the Columbia Basin were drawing conclusions based on 17/1000 of 1% of the nuclear DNA. Thomas Gilg

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Steelhead trout originated in Southern California … or points south in Mexico. San Diego county drainages had steelhead and salmon runs as late as the 1940’s. Recently, steelhead were discovered in San Mateo creek, just north of Camp Pendleton in San Diego county, and efforts are underway to return this stream to a viable steelhead fishery.  (A very uphill battle!) If you live in the San Diego/Orange County area and would like to participate in a ‘Camping/Cleanup" being conducted on September 8 and 9 (no fishing, strictly a habitat improvement mission), send me email and I’ll send you the details. FiddleAway

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Steelhead trout originated in Southern California … or points south in Mexico.

?? JR

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Steelhead trout originated in Southern California … or points south in Mexico. ??

At least when the last ice age retreated 10-13,000 years ago, there were ice sheets on both sides of the Columbia River, hence the Columbia is where salmon held over during the last ice age, and once the ice retreated, those salmon spread north and south to their current range. Going back in time, it would be interesting where else salmon many have "held over" and "originated". –tg

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Steelhead trout originated in Southern California … or points south in Mexico. ?? JR

There are some theories based on comparative analysis of DNA from rainbows native to this region versus that from rainbows native further north which point at them possibly being genetically the least changed and therefore the oldest. This is alluded to by Loev in his book "Flyfishing For Sharks." Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories Phone: (650)-857-5491               Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971          

Response:

There are some theories based on comparative analysis of DNA from rainbows native to this region versus that from rainbows native further north which point at them possibly being genetically the least changed and therefore the oldest. This is alluded to by Loev in his book "Flyfishing For Sharks."

That’s interesting. I’ll steal a glance at that section of the book on my next visit to Borders, if they haven’t gone and sold it yet. (Sorry, Rich). Still, even if southern stocks of native rainbows are the oldest, it doesn’t necessarily mean that those stocks were the first to adopt anadromy. FiddleAway:  Do folks know where the steelhead "discovered" in Mateo Creek came from?  Are they strays or what?  Also, if you haven’t yet seen it, you might be interested in: http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/swcbd/species/steelhead/ JR

Response:

Michael McGuire There are some theories based on comparative analysis of DNA from rainbows native to this region versus that from rainbows native further north which point at them possibly being genetically the least changed and therefore the oldest. This is alluded to by Loev in his book "Flyfishing For Sharks."

One theory is that Colorado Cutts are the grandaddies of the west coast trout strains.  The theory is that seagoiong cutts migrated into the Sea of Cortez and down the east coast of Baja, when the latter had a much wetter climate. Eventually these strains migrated down around Cabo and up the Pacific Coast, becoming the Steelhead/Rainbows we know today. The sourthern steelhead eventually developed a tolerance for warmer waters and a life cycle that could tolerate their home streams not being open to the sea every year. As I said before, salmon and steelhead were caught in San Diego county through the 1940’s (maybe later).  There is currently a trout fishery in Mexico on the Pacific side of its central mountain range.  The Melling Ranch is a commercial outfit that caters to people who wish to try this fishery … these trout are not seagoing trout, however. Today, there are still a few steelhead that return to Malibu Creek just north of LA.  At one time, NMFS had set Malibu as the southernmost point for giving special protection status to the fishery.  They’ve balked at extending the protective unit as far as San Mateo creek on the border of Orange/San Diego county, but DNA evidence has shown the trout found there to be a unique strain of southern steelhead.  Not sure what the current legal status is.  I think NMFS is still dragging its heels, but local clubs and conservation associations are continuing to push for restoration of this fishery. Hence, the clean up. FiddleAway

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John Russell  wrote FiddleAway:  Do folks know where the steelhead "discovered" in Mateo Creek came from?  Are they strays or what?  Also, if you haven’t yet seen it, you might be interested in:

The folks I talked to pretty much subscribe to the theory I posted in another response. The study of the creek ensued after trout where caught in its upper reaches. Fin clippings from some 40 odd individuals showed that all of the trout were in the same, 2 year old, generation.  This fact correlated to a heavier winter, two years prior, that had opened up the mouth of the Creek to the ocean. DNA analysis ruled out any relation to stocked strains.  These were natural fish that chose to migrate into the creek from the ocean. FiddleAway

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John Russell  wrote FiddleAway:  Do folks know where the steelhead "discovered" in Mateo Creek came from?  Are they strays or what?  Also, if you haven’t yet seen it, you might be interested in: The folks I talked to pretty much subscribe to the theory I posted in another response.

You’ll have to excuse me if I seem dense, but in your response to Michael (which is the only other one I’ve seen on my server, and I’m assuming is the one you mean), you only say that "DNA evidence has shown the trout found there to be a unique strain of southern steelhead."   The study of the creek ensued after trout where caught in its upper reaches. Fin clippings from some 40 odd individuals showed that all of the trout were in the same, 2 year old, generation.  This fact correlated to a heavier winter, two years prior, that had opened up the mouth of the Creek to the ocean. DNA analysis ruled out any relation to stocked strains.  These were natural fish that chose to migrate into the creek from the ocean.

So you’re saying that these are resident San Mateo rainbows that two years ago, for the first time in decades (or longer) migrated to sea–which is not at all impossible.  Or, in other words, that they are *not* strays from a neighboring population (either wild or stocked). Here’s the reason I asked (taken from the comments of the Southern California Steelhead Recovery Coalition to NMFS proposed extension of the S. Cal Steelhead ESU): "Although steelhead are known to have well-developed homing abilities (see P. B. Moyle, Inland fishes of California, [1976]), it is also known that southern steelhead commonly stray from their natal streams. This straying may be selectively advantageous because it would allow spawners to opportunistically utilize more favorable streams when their natal streams dried up or were blocked.  (See P. Higgins, Southern California Steelhead Recovery Assessment [1991]). An additional feature of southern steelhead is that they ‘miraculously’ reappeared in large spawning runs when flows became suitable in streams that had been dry or otherwise inaccessible during the previous one or more years. The implication is that streams within the historic range of the Southern California Steelhead ESU that are currently unoccupied may be rediscovered by steelhead at anytime. These unoccupied streams are likely to be discovered when habitat conditions in currently occupied streams are less favorable, indicating that all of the historical range of the Southern California Steelhead ESU is essential for the survival and recovery of this ESU." There’s a larger issue at stake here than the fate of the San Mateo population, as important as that is. JR

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So you’re saying that these are resident San Mateo rainbows that two years ago, for the first time in decades (or longer) migrated to sea–which is not at all impossible.  Or, in other words, that they are *not* strays from a neighboring population (either wild or stocked).

No.  I haven’t heard of any evidence for that.  The DNA evidence shows that these trout are related to other southern steelhead. However, I’d be surprised if there aren’t at least anecdotal reports of people catching steelhead in San Mateo creek earlier in the century when all of the drainages in San Diego county were less impacted by development.  This would be consistent with the passage you quoted from the SCSRC. There’s a larger issue at stake here than the fate of the San Mateo population, as important as that is.

I agree, if you are talking about Southern Steelhead in general as the ‘larger issue’. FiddleAway

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One theory is that Colorado Cutts are the grandaddies of the west coast trout strains.  … An interesting theory…I have not read that one.  

I haven’t either.  I have to admit, I am passing on information I got from someone I know who I take to be well informed on the subject. FiddleAway

Response:

One theory is that Colorado Cutts are the grandaddies of the west coast trout strains.  The theory is that seagoiong cutts migrated into the Sea of Cortez and down the east coast of Baja, when the latter had a much wetter climate. Eventually these strains migrated down around Cabo and up the Pacific Coast, becoming the Steelhead/Rainbows we know today.

An interesting theory…I have not read that one.  My understanding is that the rainbow and cutthroat ancestral lines diverged perhaps as long ago as the Pliocene, and then each ancestral line diverged again to become the species/subspecies that we find today (redband and coastal rainbows and the various subspecies of cutts). Interestingly enough, the southernmost known species of salmonids occurring in watersheds that drain to the Pacific (the Mexican Golden Trout, Apache Trout, and Gila Trout) all appear to be more closely related to rainbows than to cutts.  I would expect the reverse to be true if Colorado River cutts represent the ancestral strain.

Response:

At least when the last ice age retreated 10-13,000 years ago, there were ice sheets on both sides of the Columbia River, hence the Columbia is where salmon held over during the last ice age, and once the ice retreated, those salmon spread north and south to their current range. Going back in time, it would be interesting where else salmon many have "held over" and "originated".

Actually, there appear to have been perhaps 4 evolutionary lines of Rainbow (or Rainbow ancestors) in the Sea of Cortez during the four Pleistocene glacial maxima.  These evolutionary lines are thought to be the source of Apache trout, Gila trout, Mexican Golden trout, and several other unclassified strains (if not distinct species) in the Sierra Madre Occidental range in Mexico.

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Question:

Check with Fish First Fly shop in Chico. 167 E 3rd St. Chico CA 95928 Tel (530) 343-8300 Fax (530) 343-8934 Their web site is www.fishfirst.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just resently moved to Chico and I love to flyu fish.  I’m don’t know where any good local fishing spots are near by.  If anyone could help me with some streams to fish and some flys to use here in Butte County I would appreciate it Thank you.

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I just resently moved to Chico and I love to flyu fish.  I’m don’t know where any good local fishing spots are near by.  If anyone could help me with some streams to fish and some flys to use here in Butte County I would appreciate it Thank you.

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Question:

I have been an avid, die hard fly fisherman for many years now, and now my three sons are also addicted to the sport. I recently decided to try using barbless hooks on some of my mini leech and damselfly patterns. I seem to be betting the same hook set, but 90% of the fish are long line released and I see nothing wrong with what I am doing. Any Ideas??

Response:

I have been an avid, die hard fly fisherman for many years now, and now my three sons are also addicted to the sport. I recently decided to try using barbless hooks on some of my mini leech and damselfly patterns. I seem to be betting the same hook set, but 90% of the fish are long line released and I see nothing wrong with what I am doing. Any Ideas??

Just do more of the same Mike.  If you’re losing fish, you have been letting slack get in the line and when they jump, you’re not bowing to the fish.  Chances are you’re stripping in real fast to get the slack out but you must have too much slack laying on the ground.  Try fishing with less slack and get on the reel ASAP would be my advice.   Another thing you must remember is "which side of the fishes mouth" are you hooked up in?  You hook up with the fish FACING the current.  When they are fighting and turn away from the current, you need to go easy. Only pull harder when they are facing the current and the hook is on your side of the jaw. Hope this helps Mike, — MrG/American Sportsman "the saga continues"

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Keep a tight line! Ernie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been an avid, die hard fly fisherman for many years now, and now my three sons are also addicted to the sport. I recently decided to try using barbless hooks on some of my mini leech and damselfly patterns. I seem to be betting the same hook set, but 90% of the fish are long line released and I see nothing wrong with what I am doing. Any Ideas??

Response:

Don’t feel like the lone ranger! I had the same problem day before yesterday on the Conejos River in south central Colorado. Great fly fishing with 12 to 18 inch browns and some larger that I lost either with the  long line release (I like that) or a few cases of snap the 6X tippet. It was great fun nonetheless! Damn, now I’m back in Dallas… Graham – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been an avid, die hard fly fisherman for many years now, and now my three sons are also addicted to the sport. I recently decided to try using barbless hooks on some of my mini leech and damselfly patterns. I seem to be betting the same hook set, but 90% of the fish are long line released and I see nothing wrong with what I am doing. Any Ideas??

Response:

I have been an avid, die hard fly fisherman for many years now, and now my three sons are also addicted to the sport. I recently decided to try using barbless hooks on some of my mini leech and damselfly patterns. I seem to be betting the same hook set, but 90% of the fish are long line released and I see nothing wrong with what I am doing. Any Ideas??

I have days like that.  Other days, it doesn’t happen.  Could be any number of things going on.  Smaller hooks are made of thinner wire which necessarily equates with sharper hooks…..large hooks are more likely to fail to penetrate deeply.  Some days fish are more sluggish; others, more active.  A lot of line in or on the water is more difficult to control.  A long or light tippet stretches more.  There are a host of other factors which might come into play.  At any rate, barbless hooks suggest you are planning to release them anyway, no?  A little earlier is better than a little later for the fish.

Response:

I have been an avid, die hard fly fisherman for many years now, and now my three sons are also addicted to the sport. I recently decided to try using barbless hooks on some of my mini leech and damselfly patterns.

Is there a chance that in your anticipation of having to keep the pressure on the hook that you are setting up too quickly and not getting solid hookups? I’ve been crushing the barbs off my hooks for years now and it seems like at first, when I was concerned about the hook staying in place, that I may have done just that. It doesn’t seem to be a problem anymore. Flyfish

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Mr. G. made some great points.  Like FlyFish, I’ve been using barbless hooks or flattening barbs for a few years now and when I lose a fish most times it’s due to having too much line on the water and not getting the fish on the real quickly enough. GL…and tight lines! Natty

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Question:

    I’m looking for plans for a small plywood flat- bottomed flyfishing pram. Something well thought out but easy to build by a ham handed handyman. Is there anything available on the net? Al.

Response:

Try http://www.glen-l.com/ . I haven’t used them, but am seriously considering. They have a nice selection of plans, pictures, and instructions. Tim Lysyk

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     I’m looking for plans for a small plywood flat- bottomed flyfishing pram. Something well thought out but easy to build by a ham handed handyman. Is there anything available on the net? Al.

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Question:

>From: Gidget >urf wrote: >> Speaking and acting with love in one’s heart for others is an ideal that I >> would follow to the extent that I am able to. >I wouldn’t go that far.  The love in my heart is reserved for those who’ve >earned it for whatever reason.  But speaking and acting with compassion and >respect for others is, to me, a very reasonable ideal.

Ditto.  This goes back to the thread on what we need.  I think that when others are treated respectfully, it is not necessarily coming from a place of love…moreso from a place of caring. No bird soars too high, if he soars with his own wings. -William Blake

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>Minus 10 points for political correctness…

You butt. ) No bird soars too high, if he soars with his own wings. -William Blake

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Speaking and acting with love in one’s heart for others is an ideal that I would follow to the extent that I am able to. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Oceanmomma wrote in message <19990309112015.28004.00000…@ng134.aol.com>… >>From: urf <nos…@erols.com> >>Judgment is unavoidable. People have opinions and should be able to >>express them. There should be no "political correctness" here. No one >>should say anything they don’t mean to gain favor. The one thing I >>have trouble with is condemnation. >>But I’m not condemning anyone for that. >I agree that people should be able to express their opinion.  If they choose to >do it disrespectfully, or judgmentally, that speaks loudly of who they are. >There is a difference between being politically correct and just showing some >plain old respect.  Why not speak to members of this group as lovingly as one >would speak to their spouse?  Doesn’t all personkind deserve respect?  Or does >it only apply at home? >No bird soars too high, if he soars with his own wings. >-William Blake

Response:

Semantics again. The people with whom I disagree are "judgmental". The people with whom I agree are "insightful". Or so it seems to me. — Sourdough sez: "We would worry a lot less about what other people think of us, if we realized how seldom they do." Oceanmomma wrote in message

<19990308203922.14376.00003…@ng18.aol.com>… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>From: urf <nos…@erols.com> >>I agree, Gidget. One should be free to say anything without fear here. >I agree Urf.  It would be really nice if there were an atmosphere of >non-judgement.  However, the reality is that there is plenty of judgement in >here. >And please let’s not get started on what reality is  Pretty please???? >No bird soars too high, if he soars with his own wings. >-William Blake

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urf wrote: > Speaking and acting with love in one’s heart for others is an ideal that I > would follow to the extent that I am able to.

I wouldn’t go that far.  The love in my heart is reserved for those who’ve earned it for whatever reason.  But speaking and acting with compassion and respect for others is, to me, a very reasonable ideal.

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Nobody wrote: > Gidget, I agree 100%.  I think its a troll, but the guy sounds like > he’s into power games.  I also would guess that his wife is mildly > interested in the power games as well, seeing that she responded > with the "Yes, Master" he wanted to hear instead of, "Shove it, > you fool."  There are a lot more people into the power game thing > than you might think.

Not only that, but I have a hard time believing that this guy all of a sudden woke up one day and decided he wanted his wife to go w/o underwear or play kinky sex games. This kind of thing, if the person is interested, would be kind of difficult to conceal for 29 years of marriage.

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Gidget, Then what does it make them? I’m curious as to how you would characterize them. Arnie In article <36E3BE68.9EF8…@hotmail.com>, Gidget – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<gidgetoli…@hotmail.com> wrote: > He does sound trollish, but the truth is… a husband that wants his wife to go > without underwear or wants to be called "Master", is not all that bizarre.  Lots > of people have some kind of fetish that they like to indulge in, and while their > practices may seem "weird" to you and me, it hardly makes them "sick > motherfuckers."

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Arnie wrote: > Gidget, > Then what does it make them? I’m curious as to how you would characterize them.

Assuming the original poster is not just a foolish troll… I would characterize him as a person with a fetish (the desire for his mate to go w/o underwear) and a taste for "alternative" sexual practices (the dominance/submission games).

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In article <36E3BE68.9EF8…@hotmail.com>,   Gidget <gidgetoli…@hotmail.com> wrote: > Lots of people have some kind of fetish that they like to indulge in, and > while their practices may seem "weird" to you and me, it hardly makes them >"sick motherfuckers."

If an individual had an Oedipus complex and they followed through on their feeling then I think that they would qualify.  Dont you Gidget? garyz We cannot direct the wind but we can adjust the sails. ———–== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==———- http://www.dejanews.com/       Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own    

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ga…@my-dejanews.com wrote: > If an individual had an Oedipus complex and they followed through on their > feeling then I think that they would qualify.  Dont you Gidget?

Obviously… so would a pedophile.

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C’mon, now!  What goes on between ‘consenting adults’ is none of our business! Really, I’m kidding. Amused – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -ga…@my-dejanews.com wrote in message <7c1cs5$nj…@nnrp1.dejanews.com>… >In article <36E3BE68.9EF8…@hotmail.com>, >  Gidget <gidgetoli…@hotmail.com> wrote: >> Lots of people have some kind of fetish that they like to indulge in, and >> while their practices may seem "weird" to you and me, it hardly makes them >>"sick motherfuckers." >If an individual had an Oedipus complex and they followed through on their >feeling then I think that they would qualify.  Dont you Gidget? >garyz >We cannot direct the wind but we can adjust the sails. >———–== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==———- >http://www.dejanews.com/       Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own

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I agree, Gidget. One should be free to say anything without fear here. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Gidget wrote: > Gail Warnings wrote: > > I really hope this is a troll, not just some sick motherfucker who likes to > > do weird things to some woman who is probably 60 years old.  This reminds me > > of the rape guy– and not in a good way. > He does sound trollish, but the truth is… a husband that wants his wife to go > without underwear or wants to be called "Master", is not all that bizarre.  Lots > of people have some kind of fetish that they like to indulge in, and while their > practices may seem "weird" to you and me, it hardly makes them "sick > motherfuckers."

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Judgment is unavoidable. People have opinions and should be able to express them. There should be no "political correctness" here. No one should say anything they don’t mean to gain favor. The one thing I have trouble with is condemnation. But I’m not condemning anyone for that. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Oceanmomma wrote: > >From: urf <nos…@erols.com> > >I agree, Gidget. One should be free to say anything without fear here. > I agree Urf.  It would be really nice if there were an atmosphere of > non-judgement.  However, the reality is that there is plenty of judgement in > here. > And please let’s not get started on what reality is  Pretty please???? > No bird soars too high, if he soars with his own wings. > -William Blake

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Minus 10 points for political correctness… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Oceanmomma wrote in message <19990309112015.28004.00000…@ng134.aol.com>… >Doesn’t all personkind deserve respect

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>From: urf <nos…@erols.com> >Judgment is unavoidable. People have opinions and should be able to >express them. There should be no "political correctness" here. No one >should say anything they don’t mean to gain favor. The one thing I >have trouble with is condemnation. >But I’m not condemning anyone for that.

I agree that people should be able to express their opinion.  If they choose to do it disrespectfully, or judgmentally, that speaks loudly of who they are. There is a difference between being politically correct and just showing some plain old respect.  Why not speak to members of this group as lovingly as one would speak to their spouse?  Doesn’t all personkind deserve respect?  Or does it only apply at home? No bird soars too high, if he soars with his own wings. -William Blake

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Did he also have a diamond in his belly button? lol – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Amused wrote: > I saw him last week living under a bridge, eating Billy-goats and fly > fishing. > Amused > Gail Warnings wrote in message <7buhgj$o6…@camel18.mindspring.com>… > >Richard Terry wrote in message <7bu94a$6i…@ash.prod.itd.earthlink.net>… > >.  I want my wife to stop wearing > >>underwear.  I positively had bras and for a time hid all her bras and made > >>her wear bralettes, which provide minimum support and maximum view. > >>I’ve told her that when our youngest son (a senior in high school) goes to > >>college I want her to go around the house without clothes.  .  It turns me > >on to think of > >>inflicting mild pain on my wife.  I have wrist restraints that I just > >bought > >>that I would like to use and a riding crop that I bought in hopes of tying > >>her up after a few weeks post op rest as well as nipple clamps.  I don’t > >>really want to hurt her, it just turns me on for her to be submissive. > >I really hope this is a troll, not just some sick motherfucker who likes to > >do weird things to some woman who is probably 60 years old.  This reminds > me > >of the rape guy– and not in a good way. > >Gail

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>From: urf <nos…@erols.com> >I agree, Gidget. One should be free to say anything without fear here.

I agree Urf.  It would be really nice if there were an atmosphere of non-judgement.  However, the reality is that there is plenty of judgement in here. And please let’s not get started on what reality is  Pretty please???? No bird soars too high, if he soars with his own wings. -William Blake

Response:

Call Dr. Popoola.  He helped you before according to your other posting in alt.support.obesity. _____________________________________________________________________ Rich here.  10 months ago I weighed 300 pounds, today 3/1/99 I weight 207. After years of trying to diet I finally realized that my weight problem did not have to do with lack of will power, but a genetic problem passed down from generation to generation. Dr. Dapo Popoola, of the Surgilite Medical Group of North Hollywood, CA. performed a Vertical Ring Gastric Bypass on me and since that day my entire life has changed.  I was diabetic, I am no longer diabetic.  While I am still hypertensive I have cut my medications in half.  I am healther than I have ever been running up to 18 miles a week and doing a full body work out 3 days a week.  If you’re interested in knowing more, I have created a website for Surgilite at surgilite.hypermart.net and you can find out whatever your need to know by visiting that site.  Goodluck. ______________________________________________________ garyz Never mistake motion for action. –Ernest Hemingway ———–== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==———- http://www.dejanews.com/       Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own    

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"Richard Terry" <rwte…@earthlink.net> wrote: >Short of going to a psychiatrist I am looking for some help.  Perhpas this >is the place.  Please bear with me as I explain.

Richard, It sounds like you’re going to need that psychiatrist.  It doesn’t sound like your wife is into these sex games you are playing.  If she isn’t,  you need help and plenty of it.

Response:

Gail Warnings wrote: > I really hope this is a troll, not just some sick motherfucker who likes to > do weird things to some woman who is probably 60 years old.  This reminds me > of the rape guy– and not in a good way.

He does sound trollish, but the truth is… a husband that wants his wife to go without underwear or wants to be called "Master", is not all that bizarre.  Lots of people have some kind of fetish that they like to indulge in, and while their practices may seem "weird" to you and me, it hardly makes them "sick motherfuckers."

Response:

Richard Terry wrote in message <7bu94a$6i…@ash.prod.itd.earthlink.net>…

.  I want my wife to stop wearing >underwear.  I positively had bras and for a time hid all her bras and made >her wear bralettes, which provide minimum support and maximum view. >I’ve told her that when our youngest son (a senior in high school) goes to >college I want her to go around the house without clothes.  .  It turns me on to think of >inflicting mild pain on my wife.  I have wrist restraints that I just bought >that I would like to use and a riding crop that I bought in hopes of tying >her up after a few weeks post op rest as well as nipple clamps.  I don’t >really want to hurt her, it just turns me on for her to be submissive.

I really hope this is a troll, not just some sick motherfucker who likes to do weird things to some woman who is probably 60 years old.  This reminds me of the rape guy– and not in a good way. Gail

Response:

I saw him last week living under a bridge, eating Billy-goats and fly fishing. Amused – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Gail Warnings wrote in message <7buhgj$o6…@camel18.mindspring.com>… >Richard Terry wrote in message <7bu94a$6i…@ash.prod.itd.earthlink.net>… >.  I want my wife to stop wearing >>underwear.  I positively had bras and for a time hid all her bras and made >>her wear bralettes, which provide minimum support and maximum view. >>I’ve told her that when our youngest son (a senior in high school) goes to >>college I want her to go around the house without clothes.  .  It turns me >on to think of >>inflicting mild pain on my wife.  I have wrist restraints that I just >bought >>that I would like to use and a riding crop that I bought in hopes of tying >>her up after a few weeks post op rest as well as nipple clamps.  I don’t >>really want to hurt her, it just turns me on for her to be submissive. >I really hope this is a troll, not just some sick motherfucker who likes to >do weird things to some woman who is probably 60 years old.  This reminds me >of the rape guy– and not in a good way. >Gail

Response:

Gidget wrote: > He does sound trollish, but the truth is… a husband that wants his wife to go > without underwear or wants to be called "Master", is not all that bizarre.  Lots > of people have some kind of fetish that they like to indulge in, and while their > practices may seem "weird" to you and me, it hardly makes them "sick > motherfuckers."

Gidget, I agree 100%.  I think its a troll, but the guy sounds like he’s into power games.  I also would guess that his wife is mildly interested in the power games as well, seeing that she responded with the "Yes, Master" he wanted to hear instead of, "Shove it, you fool."  There are a lot more people into the power game thing than you might think. Drew

Response:

Short of going to a psychiatrist I am looking for some help.  Perhpas this is the place.  Please bear with me as I explain. I have been married to the same woman for 29 years.  I love her beyond words, but for 29 years we have struggled with a problem that seems to be getting worse and I need some objective input for disinterested third parties.  So here goes. As I said I love my wife, but I have a desire to control her, Oh, not in the conventional way.  I want her to have her own live, but I want to control what she wears under her clothes.  My wife says I just want to control her, if so, after you read this tell me so.  I want my wife to stop wearing underwear.  I positively had bras and for a time hid all her bras and made her wear bralettes, which provide minimum support and maximum view.  She is getting read to have a hysterectomy and after the surgery I do not want her to wear panties any more.  It turns me on to think of my wife, out in public, without underwear.  I’ve never asked her to do anything that she would consider immoral, only that she not wear underwear. On occasions she has gone without a bra, and several yeas ago, on one of our anniverseries, she went without bra and panties and I can’t describe how it made me feel.  I have a strong sex drive, but she does not.  I want sex every night, she wants it every week or month (I’m no exaggerating).  I dream about her every night. I dream about her being naked in front of other men and women and being ordered to allow the men to make love to her to for her to provide oral sex to the women. I’ve told her that when our youngest son (a senior in high school) goes to college I want her to go around the house without clothes.  I don’t want sex 24/7 I just like to look at my wife’s beautiful body. I do have one other "hang up" if you please.  It turns me on to think of inflicting mild pain on my wife.  I have wrist restraints that I just bought that I would like to use and a riding crop that I bought in hopes of tying her up after a few weeks post op rest as well as nipple clamps.  I don’t really want to hurt her, it just turns me on for her to be submissive. Last night we had a fight, afterwards I ordered her to remove all her clothes and as I made love to her I told her that she was to address me, at all times with "Yes, Sir" and when it was just she and I she was to address me as "Master".  I can’t begin to tell you how it turned me on when I asked "Do you understand what I’m saying" and she replied "Yes master." I love my wife and want help. After love making I feel so guilty.  I don’t want to hurt her, but at the same time I get so turned on by her submissiveness.  Does anyone have any suggestions that might help me to control my passions and range.   Please reply to me privately and not on this list because I need to hear from you as soon as possible. thanx for listening, I hope you can help. RWT mailto:rwte…@earthlink.net

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Question:

Looking for info for group trip of about 12-18 people for fishing in August & Sept.

Response:

You can’t do better than Mike Lawson’s at Henry’s Fork.  He and his guys can take you into Montana, Yellowstone and fish the better parts of easter ID. Wonderful guides, all of them.  Henry’s Fork Lodge can handle your group in very nice style.  The best fishing I’ve done in years. SAB – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Looking for info for group trip of about 12-18 people for fishing in August & Sept.

Response:

Hi: I second the recomendation to Mike Lawson’s shop.  I took a trip with Mike Smith, Smitty, this summer and had a great time.  However, the shop is more expensive than any of the others in the area, so be aware.  The shop has a web site, I don’s know the url but know it is listed at www.davisbrown.com/fflnk.html Chris Brown

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Question:

Bob, While not in the Akron area, I can give some advice re:  fly fishing in Ohio. Recommend you fish a stream in the tailwaters downstream from a dam.    Barring that, get in the middle of any rocky stream with riffles and fish the pools right up against the bank.  My fishing buddies and I are doing well with a 4 or 5 wt. rod with floating line.  We’re catching smallmouth bass, sunfish and crappie with size 6 or 8 surface pan poppers, Sneaky Pete’s and crickets.  I also have had some luck with a size 6 minnow streamer.  Best time is from sunup ’till late morning. Largemouth don’t appear to be at all active in this summer heat; you can try but I wouldn’t spend a lot of time on them.  It’s not Montana or Wyoming, but we’re having a lot of fun!  Forget the lakes; they’re for boat and bait fishing.  And contrary to what the shops tell you (remember, they sell bait), we fly flingers appear to be the only ones catching fish this summer!  The bait people aren’t doing so hot (unless you like catfish and carp), and people going for the big stuff are walking away empty handed.  Even a lot of the big, bad bass fishermen with their 4 quadrillion horsepower motors are docking their boats during July and August.  The only trout stream is the Mad River west of Columbus in the springtime and steelhead up by Lake Erie in the late Fall.  Good luck and good fishing. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – On my way to ohio for a week 1 Aug, anyone know of any flyfishing to be done there?  I have made some phone calls and the shops all seem to say bring my spinning outfit, which I don’t want to do.  I will be around the Akron area but I will travel to get to a good spot.  Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Bob

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On my way to ohio for a week 1 Aug, anyone know of any flyfishing to be done there?  I have made some phone calls and the shops all seem to say bring my spinning outfit, which I don’t want to do.  I will be around the Akron area but I will travel to get to a good spot.  Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Bob

Response:

If you mean fly-fishing for trout, check out the Clear Fork (south of Mansfield) of the Mad River (around Urbana).  You can find a good write-up of both on the Virtual Flyshop at http://www.flyshop.com/Centers/Midwest/7-98Mad/index.html : On my way to ohio for a week 1 Aug, anyone know of any flyfishing to be done : there?  I have made some phone calls and the shops all seem to say bring my : spinning outfit, which I don’t want to do.  I will be around the Akron area but : I will travel to get to a good spot.  Any info would be greatly appreciated. : Thanks Bob —                        http://members.tripod.com/~trunculo/index

Response:

Sorry to follow-up my own post, but I meant to say Clear Fork *or* Mad River. : If you mean fly-fishing for trout, check out the Clear Fork (south of : Mansfield) of the Mad River (around Urbana).  You can find a good              ^^ —                        http://members.tripod.com/~trunculo/index

Response:

The Mad river is said to be one of the finest trout rivers in the state, however it is a several hour drive to get to it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – On my way to ohio for a week 1 Aug, anyone know of any flyfishing to be done there?  I have made some phone calls and the shops all seem to say bring my spinning outfit, which I don’t want to do.  I will be around the Akron area but I will travel to get to a good spot.  Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Bob

Response:

On my way to ohio for a week 1 Aug, anyone know of any flyfishing to be done there?  I have made some phone calls and the shops all seem to say bring my spinning outfit, which I don’t want to do.  I will be around the Akron area but I will travel to get to a good spot.  Any info would be greatly

appreciated. For trout your best shot in the near-Akron area would be the Clear Fork of the Mohican, down around Mansfield.  I’d guess that’s about 50 miles from Akron, though, so it’d be a long haul. Lately the pond and small lake fishing hasn’t been too good.  Bluegills will still bite, but of course bluegills will *always* bite.  The water has warmed up and the largemouths have developed lockjaw, although you might get lucky.  Try some of the ponds in the Cuyahoga Valley National Recreation Area north of Akron.  Stay OUT of the lower Cuyahoga River – too polluted to mess with. If you can get into the upper Cuyahoga (anywhere upstream of the dam in Cuyahoga Falls) you can probably do alright.  Best of luck. — Bob Jarvis Mail address hacked to foil spammers!

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Question:

I have two $69.00 caddis tubes that I use for striped bass fly fishing here in CA.. My 8 year old daughter and 10 year old son have no problems at all using them as neither do I. I find the lighter and less expensive the better…One of the responses to you mentioned being "pee" friendly either way you still have wadders on. good luck.  

Response:

One thing to consider is where you will be using the tube or pontoon boat.  I have used both and when conditions permit a pontoon boat is easier to fish from for the reasons others have listed, but I often enjoy backpacking into lakes, and my tube weighs far less than a pontoon boat, which would be too cumbersome for such a trip.  Good luck with your decision.

Response:

There is a pontoon boat that addresses the needs of the backpacker and the river fisherman. Try the Supercat. —                    "One Fish is Worth a Thousand Lies"                             http://Flyfish.Com

Response:

There is a pontoon boat that addresses the needs of the backpacker and the river fisherman. Try the Supercat.

I just tried out a Supercat yesterday and it was great. I’ll be ordering one soon. I guess I shouldn’t have bought that float tube a couple of weeks ago. Brad

Response:

Hello, I am going to make a purchase of either a float tube, or a pontoon float. If you have had experience in any of the above, I sure would like to hear your opinion as the database of information is pretty scarce. If you have a pontoon float, how are they in the wind?  U shape verses V shape verses Round?  How about brand names, general price, etc, good or bad? Sure would appreciate your input. Thanks. Mike

Response:

I just replaced my tube with a JW Outfitters Kingfisher 4 pontoon.  I like it alot better because 1) casting is much easier, 2) sight-fishing is much better, 3) it is faster and more manuverable, 4) ingress-egress MUCH nicer, 5) it is certainly more pee-friendly, and 6) it is lighter.  As to the wind, not a problem.  You can kick out real easily.

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Pontoon boat more comfortable, drier, covers more area. But nothying like fightinhg  a big fish from a float tube. if you gert a flaoat tube-go u or v -boat design only.

Response:

Hello, I am going to make a purchase of either a float tube, or a pontoon float. If you have had experience in any of the above, I sure would like to hear your opinion as the database of information is pretty scarce. If you have a pontoon float, how are they in the wind?  U shape verses V shape verses Round?  How about brand names, general price, etc, good or bad? Sure would appreciate your input. Thanks.

Hi Mike I’ve had a lot of experience with float tubes and pontoon boats.  The float tube will cost you less than a pontoon boat (tube = $100 or so, pontoon = $400 – $1600 or so) Personally I would use a pontoon boat over a float tube no matter what the cost difference is.  After I reached the age of 45 whenever I got my crotch in cold water it was an immediate trip to the bank for a nature call.  Also as I got older staying warm in a tube became a problem.  Also I never felt comfortable floating a river in a tube although I’ve done quite a bit of it.   In the wind you can kick your heart out in a tube and progress on you way very slowly.  With a pontoon craft you can kick and row at the same time and really scoot.  My wife and I use our boats here in Montana on streams like the Big Horn.  When we float through a section that is particularly productive, we pull over to the soft side of the river and kick and row our way back up stream to the top end of the pool and float through it again.  I’ve had my craft in rapid up to grade #3 and did not feel in jeopardy (I have had a lot of experience in white water so that could be part of the reason).  By the way I’m in the fly fishing business but do not sell pontoon boats. For what it’s worth, that’s my belief.  I’m sure you will get other responces with different oppinions.  Which ever way you go, ENJOY! Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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Question:

Will someone please post the materials list for a Pheasant Tail nymph.  I can’t believe it but my three tying books don’t list the pattern! Thanks, Johnny

Response:

Will someone please post the materials list for a Pheasant Tail nymph.  I can’t believe it but my three tying books don’t list the pattern! Thanks, Johnny

Thread – tan Tail – pheasant tail tips Body – pheasant tail fibers wrapped like herl Ribbing – thin copper wire Thorax – copper wire (for bulk and added weight) over-wrapped with peacock               herl Wing case – pheasant tail with fibers divided at the head and turned back on               either side as "legs" (trimmed to 2/3 body length) – can be tied as bead head or with variations (flashback, mylar ribbing, etc.) Good fishing!  J. Rice

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materials: cock ring-neck pheasant tail, peacock herl, fine copper wire, black thread, 1X nymph hooks (pretty fancy, huh?) tie thread base, tie tail using 4-8 barbules from tails feather depending on size equal to 1/2 length of hook shank (no longer) with 3-4 wraps of thread; tie in copper wire, wrap tail fibres forward to midpoint; counter wrap copper wire rib, tie off and trim (your thread is now just forweard of the midpoint of the shank); fold back fibres over top of fly and tie down with a couple of wraps; tie in peacock herl and wrap a full thorax; fold fibers forward over the herl forming the case, tie down with 3-4 wraps of thread; divide fibres and fold back along the sides to form legs, tie down and whip finish. I don’t think I left anything out. A little practice and you should be able to tie 16-20 flies per hour with a rotary vice. Personal variations permitted. Hope this helps. — Ken Clark Ft. Lupton, CO

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I’m not sure what a book might say, but I’ve tied thousands with the following: cooper wire Pheasant Tail Fibers Peacock Herl Lead underbody (if allowed) Tie in tail of 3-6 tail fibers, Tie in a length of pheasant tail fibers 1/8′ or so wide and 1 1/2 times the length of hook shank and wrap fibers forward to 2/3 point of shank (do not cut butts)  rib with wire forward tie down with thread wrap peacock in for thorax and bring pheasant over top of hook for wing case tie down pull a few fiber out to side as legs tie off your done. Good luck, Great Nymph

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Pheasant tails, peacock hurl, fine copper, hook and thread. John Nesselrode Shawnee, KS

Response:

Will someone please post the materials list for a Pheasant Tail nymph.  I can’t believe it but my three tying books don’t list the pattern!

The original English tie by Frank Sawyer uses only PT herl and fine copper wire (i.e. no thread.)  If your wire is fine enough, it’s all you need. (A cheap source is transformers from broken electrical gadgets.) — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Will someone please post the materials list for a Pheasant Tail nymph.  I can’t believe it but my three tying books don’t list the pattern! Thanks, Johnny

Hi Johnny Here is the dressing as written by Frank Sawyer in the 1950s.  Sawyer was a river keeper and is the man credited with the invention of the PTN. This dressing may not be what you were expecting as it uses fine copper wire rather than thread.  Although that sounds difficult, I have dressed some of these myself and it wasn’t that hard.  They were also VERY effective.  Good luck. Russ         Now as to the dressings.  The materials used are quite easy for         most, who are interested, to obtain.  To represent the several         olive nymphs my pattern of the pheasant tail can be constructed         on three different hook sizes, No 00, No 0 and No 1*, and I         make no claim that the use of pheasant tail fibres for the body         of nymphs or flies is original.  But what I do claim is the         manner of the base building, ballasting, and the tying in of         the pheasant tail fibres with fine copper wire, of a colouring         to suit and tone in which the general dressing.  Artificial         nymphs tied in my way are not difficult to make, and the simple         instruction I am able to give should be sufficient for anyone         with nimble fingers to follow.         First grip the selected hook firmly in the vice and then give         the hook an even covering from bend to eye with fine         red-coloured copper wire.  The wire we use is little thicker         than a human hair and this one can obtain at little cost from         various sources.  It is used for the windings in small         transformers, dynamos, or electric motors.  After the hook has         been covered and the wire locked so that it cannot spin around         the hook shank, wind the wire in even turns to the point where         the thorax of the nymph is to be constructed, and there build         up a hump.  Then wind the wire back to the hook bend and let it         dangle.  Wire is much easier to use than silk as it will not         spin off or loosen if the tension is relaxed.         The wire with its red colour forms the base for the dressing         and at the same time gives additional weight to the hook.  I         dispense entirely with the use of silk and use the fine wire to         tie in the dressing.  The wire is now dangling from the hook         bend.  Take the four centre fibres of the browny-red cock         pheasant tail feather.  Hold the fibres by the tips and then         tie them on the with the wire so that the fine ends stand out         about one eighth of an inch from the hook bend.  They form the         tails, or the set of the nymph.  Then spin the four fibres of         the pheasant tail on to the wire so that they are reinforced,         and then lap fibres and wire evenly to the hook eye.  Hold the         wire firmly, separate the fibres from it and then wind the wire         to the point behind which the thorax is to be made.  Bend the         fibres back and fasten for the first lap of the thorax, then         forward to the eye of the hook again.  Fasten here securely         with half a dozen turns of wire and then cut away spare         fibres.         Our finished effort should have a very pronounced thorax which         suggests the bulging wing cases, and a body which tapers neatly         to the tail.  With the tail fibres spread, all is complete.         It will be noted by those who follow these instructions that         the upper part of the thorax which imitates the wing cases is         much darker than the rest of the body.  This is brought about         by the lapping back and forth of the butt ends of the pheasant         tail fibres.  If wire and fibres are wound evenly on the hook,         the spare ends should have the dark tone which is a feature in         the butts of these fibres.  This gives a very natural         appearance to the thorax.  The fibres of pheasant tail vary in         length, and indeed texture, from the butt of the feather to the         tip, so when dressing a nymph one can select lengths most         suitable for the size of the hook, bearing in mind that when         the body is made the dark part is ready to use for lapping.         When wet this pattern has a translucent effect and one can see         the red of the wire showing through the pheasant tail fibres.         The artificial, so constructed, has a very good entry to water         and will sink deeply when required.  The hook point is not         muffled or guarded in any way by hackles or by the dressing,         and a slight lift of the rod will drive it home. * Modern sizes 14, 15 and 16

Response:

Will someone please post the materials list for a Pheasant Tail nymph.  I can’t believe it but my three tying books don’t list the pattern! Thanks, Johnny

The nymph is tied with copper wire as thread.  Leaving a long tag, wrap to the bend.  Tie in about 6 pheasant tail fibers, leaving the tips for the tail.  Wrap the wire to the start of the thorax (2/3 up the shank), then create a body by wrapping the butts of the pheasant tail.  Tie them off with the wire, then use the long tag to rib the body.  Tie off the copper ribbing with the copper "thread" then trim everything.  Tie in a larger bunch of pheasant tail fibers, with the tip length about hook shank length, then some peacock herl (2-3).  Wrap the wire almost to the eye, then back to the herl, then forward again.  This weights the nymph, so wrap according to what you want.  Wrap the herl to create a plump thorax, tie it off, and trim it.  Pull the fibers over the herl to create a wing case, then pull about three to each side and create legs.  Wrap a copper head, and finish. BTW, this nymph REALLY works if fished deep.

Response:

Thanks to everyone for the help on the pattern! Johnny Johnson

Response:

Thanks to everyone for the help on the pattern! Johnny Johnson

This is just funny enough that I’ve got to share it with ya’ll. I’ve long been a collector of road kills, much to the chagrin of both my wife and my oldest son, Michael.  Well, last month, while riding my bicycle to work…. you guessed it– I found a road kill. Well, sort of.  It was a coil that some technician had probably set on top of his car before pulling out of the parking lot.  And, it had been run over a few times.  It was definitely dead! Then, along comes this whole discussion of the original PT pattern. Lo and behold, the coil is just the thing for the wire component of the original PT pattern.  To make it even better, a hunter friend gave me two pheasant hides this year.  I’m tying nymphs for the price of the hook! So, my question is:  Has our sport gotten a little out of hand when the HOOK is over 99% of the cost of a fly?  :^) Tight pants^h^h^h^hlines! Charley

Response:

Speaking of personal variations: For the thorax, I like to dub.  I use a dubbing loop, and stuff a couple of small bunches of selected fur in.  I keep the guard hairs in with the soft underfur.  Then I twist up the loop and wrap.  Then pull the butt ends of the PT over top as a wing case and tie off.  The guard hairs in the dub look like legs/assorted appendages and give the fly a bit more life. Another variation: Don’t put a wing case on.  I.E., tie it "in the round".  This is a philosophical thing.  In the vise, we’re always thinking of the top and bottom of the fly, but this may not be how it will behave in the water.  There is a philosophy that suggests that an upside down nymph is as upsetting to a trout as any other "error" when tying, for example some type of pure "match the hatch" dry fly. Bob Lundy IWFFC Mississauga, ON http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rlundy/

Response:

Will someone please post the materials list for a Pheasant Tail nymph.  I can’t believe it but my three tying books don’t list the pattern!

Hi Johnny, The Pheasant Tail is included in my fly tying web site. If you’d like, it can be found at… WWW Fly Tyer:    http://www.ns.net/~barnard (this is a non-commercial site)  :-) Look in the category "modern nymph". You will find both a recipe and step-by-step instructions. I hope this helps,    Alan.

Response:

So, my question is:  Has our sport gotten a little out of hand when the HOOK is over 99% of the cost of a fly?  :^)

That’s the way it should be; it’s out of hand when it’s the other way around ! One a similar subject, I regularly donate trout to a friend and he regulary brings me cock pheasant centre tail feathers from his father-in-law’s shoot.  I now have ~150 of the damn things. I’d like to get into dyeing or bleaching them so I have some choice over colour; does anyone have any experience of this please ?  Where do I start ? Thanks in advance Russ

Response:

One a similar subject, I regularly donate trout to a friend and he regulary brings me cock pheasant centre tail feathers from his father-in-law’s shoot.  I now have ~150 of the damn things. I’d like to get into dyeing or bleaching them so I have some choice over colour; does anyone have any experience of this please ?  Where do I start ? Thanks in advance Russ

Well, Russ, it just so happens I know the answer to this because I found it today while researching an article for my fly fishing club newsletter. American Angler ran a five part series of articles called "Modern Dyes and Dyeing for Fly Tiers", by Wm. T. Roubal, from May, ‘94 through Jan, ‘95.  The one on bleaching was the last one, Jan. ‘95. Charley

Response:

Thanks to everyone for the help on the pattern! Johnny Johnson

One other suggestion.  Have had good results using PT tied with greyish-brown dubbing for the thorax instead of peacock herl.  Might even try that with flashabou wing casing.  Whatever way you tie it, the PT just never stops producin!!! g

Response:

One other suggestion.  Have had good results using PT tied with greyish-brown dubbing for the thorax instead of peacock herl.  Might

PT inventor Frank Sawyer also made a similar nymph using grey goose herls (improvised on the spot in N. Sweden, if I remember right). — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

Question:

oh come on !!! We all now how handy a 9 foot 8 weight comes in at a Klan Rally !   Tim Walker

Response:

Some people bring so much baggage to every sport they miss the very point! If you believe that flyfishing is a white-man elitist sport you are confusing social issues with angler-fish issues,for example. But why do we flyfish ? There are times when spinners, jigs, bait, etc. are far more successful in bringing a fish to the net. In reality flyfishing gear is the most versatile , capable of handling the obvious as well  as spinners, small jigs,  and bait ( sometimes the casting is not so pretty), offers nearly absolute lure control, and provides both visual and tactile strike detection. Finally , hooking, fighting, and landing a fish on a long, light rod with the fish and the angler connected through the line is magical and the guts of the sport. Flyfishing  masters ( even after 30 years / over 3000 fishing trips I am not one)  have used every tool at their disposal and have blurred the edges between flyfihing and spinning in the quest for this magic.

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