Question:

This is rather long winded, but 5 days of fishing take a while to describe, and it was a great trip.  I’ll post another report on flies, leaders, and tactics in general.

[a toothy snip] After dinner it was time to fly out to Yellowknife and then home the next morning.  Despite the freak wind storm, this was a great trip.   Next year we’ll do it again. Chas A piker if there ever was one! See www.enodah.com for more info about the resort.

Chas, I hope you’re able to put this post, the tactics one, and the photos up on a website as this one is a keeper fer sure. Were you finding these fish mostly in the shallows and catching them mostly either on top or near the surface?  When I fished Blatchford Lake NWT, I found the pike ranged between tight up to the bank in barely enough water to cover their backs, all of the way down to 15′ or more.  The pike in your area definitely were larger than the ones at Blatchford and as pike are so slow growing up North, I wonder why these fish are consistently so large – did the lodge offer any opinions? Might want to also post this to can.rec.fishing – those boys need the help. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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 the wind increased to about 30mph,

Just 30?  A pleasant breeze… Sounds like you had a great trip; nice report. Kevin

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Having spent my career as a programmer, I’ve resisted building a web page, but maybe it’s time. This trip was during that post-post-spawn time when the fish have moved out of the shallows and are mostly resting in the middle depths.  If we had been a week earlier we’d have caught a lot of them in the shallows.  Another week and they’d be back in the shallows.  Maybe it was the storm that drove them out.  In any event, the North Arm is a large string of islands with almost no water as deep as 15 feet.  These fish were in 3 to 5 feet, out in the middle of the bay.   The large fish are a result of minimal fishing preasure for the size of the area.  The season is a couple months long, Ragnar has room for a max of 16 people, and only fills the resort for two or three prime weeks in June.  He only keeps a few fish a day for lunch, and those are 25 to 30 inches long.  Steve Probasco of Northwest Flyfishing had the same experience with the size of the fish, Great Slave Lake has the bigger fish. As for survival, one of the other guys caught a 38" fish with a healed whole in his head.  The guide, Frank, remembered the fish from a couple years ago when it was 36 inches.  One inch a year for this fish. As for can.rec.fishing, both of those guys should read r.o.f.f.   This is where the action is. Chas – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Chas, I hope you’re able to put this post, the tactics one, and the photos up on a website as this one is a keeper fer sure. Were you finding these fish mostly in the shallows and catching them mostly either on top or near the surface?  When I fished Blatchford Lake NWT, I found the pike ranged between tight up to the bank in barely enough water to cover their backs, all of the way down to 15′ or more.  The pike in your area definitely were larger than the ones at Blatchford and as pike are so slow growing up North, I wonder why these fish are consistently so large – did the lodge offer any opinions? Might want to also post this to can.rec.fishing – those boys need the help. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Pleasant breeze?  With that experience from Devil’s Lake, it wasn’t too hard to cast, but up there that wind is rare in the spring and summer.   I think we should move the clave north next year. Anybody interested? Chas – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  the wind increased to about 30mph, Just 30?  A pleasant breeze… Sounds like you had a great trip; nice report. Kevin

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Having spent my career as a programmer, I’ve resisted building a web page, but maybe it’s time. This trip was during that post-post-spawn time when the fish have moved out of the shallows and are mostly resting in the middle depths.  If we had been a week earlier we’d have caught a lot of them in the shallows. Another week and they’d be back in the shallows.  Maybe it was the storm that drove them out.  In any event, the North Arm is a large string of islands with almost no water as deep as 15 feet.  These fish were in 3 to 5 feet, out in the middle of the bay.   The large fish are a result of minimal fishing preasure for the size of the area.  The season is a couple months long, Ragnar has room for a max of 16 people, and only fills the resort for two or three prime weeks in June.  He only keeps a few fish a day for lunch, and those are 25 to 30 inches long.  Steve Probasco of Northwest Flyfishing had the same experience with the size of the fish, Great Slave Lake has the bigger fish. As for survival, one of the other guys caught a 38" fish with a healed whole in his head.  The guide, Frank, remembered the fish from a couple years ago when it was 36 inches.  One inch a year for this fish. As for can.rec.fishing, both of those guys should read r.o.f.f.   This is where the action is. Chas

Interesting as Blatchford Lake is hardly pressured by Southern standards however, the effects of killing just a few large, slow growing fish in a 14 mile long lake, would have an effect.  Most of the pike I saw, hooked, landed were in the 30" range.  I did play tag with a monster in the 40"+ range but never succeeded in setting a hook in her. I’m going to be shortening up the Yak flies that I’ve already tied plus tie up a few with stinger hooks.  The choice of the 2/0 was simply a matter of what I had handy – the 4/0 would be a better choice. About the hook problem – were you referring to loosing fish on hooks with an upturned eye? Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Pleasant breeze?  With that experience from Devil’s Lake, it wasn’t too hard to cast, but up there that wind is rare in the spring and summer. I think we should move the clave north next year. Anybody interested?

I’d be interested but staying at one of the fly-in resorts is beyond my budget. Great report, BTW. Willi

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I’ve been using saltwater hooks – straight eye and no offset.  I just have difficulty finding them in the right size.

Your #2 hooks had a better hooking percentage than the offset 2/0 hooks as near as I can tell.  My new favorite is the Owner super point hook, but the Mustad 3407 is so much cheaper that I use it more often.  4/0 is nice because it stays upright better than smaller hooks. Chas

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Pleasant breeze?  With that experience from Devil’s Lake, it wasn’t too hard to cast, but up there that wind is rare in the spring and summer. I think we should move the clave north next year. Anybody interested? I’d be interested but staying at one of the fly-in resorts is beyond my budget.

Check out the website for prices, they’re not as high as you might expect.  I think I could get a discount if we can get more than a couple guys interested. Thanks Chas

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I’m going to be shortening up the Yak flies that I’ve already tied plus tie up a few with stinger hooks.  The choice of the 2/0 was simply a matter of what I had handy – the 4/0 would be a better choice. The flies you sent me had #2, not #2/0 hooks.

Well, must’ve been the cheap booze that night or I was really scraping the bottom of the hook barrel – thought I had used 2/0. About the hook problem – were you referring to loosing fish on hooks with an upturned eye? I had straightened the turned up eye, but the difference is that the point is offset.  When you put a standard fly hook on a table, it lies flat.  These bait hooks aren’t bent in one plane, but have the point turned to one side a bit.  I had expected that to help, but I’m suspicious that it was a hinderance.  This is rather unscientific, I’d have to work on a way to test this idea and try it before I can push this as any more than anecdotal. Chas

I’ve been using saltwater hooks – straight eye and no offset.  I just have difficulty finding them in the right size. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Interesting as Blatchford Lake is hardly pressured by Southern standards however, the effects of killing just a few large, slow growing fish in a 14 mile long lake, would have an effect.  Most of the pike I saw, hooked, landed were in the 30" range.  I did play tag with a monster in the 40"+ range but never succeeded in setting a hook in her. I’m going to be shortening up the Yak flies that I’ve already tied plus tie up a few with stinger hooks.  The choice of the 2/0 was simply a matter of what I had handy – the 4/0 would be a better choice.

The flies you sent me had #2, not #2/0 hooks. About the hook problem – were you referring to loosing fish on hooks with an upturned eye?

I had straightened the turned up eye, but the difference is that the point is offset.  When you put a standard fly hook on a table, it lies flat.  These bait hooks aren’t bent in one plane, but have the point turned to one side a bit.  I had expected that to help, but I’m suspicious that it was a hinderance.  This is rather unscientific, I’d have to work on a way to test this idea and try it before I can push this as any more than anecdotal. Chas

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This is rather long winded, but 5 days of fishing take a while to describe, and it was a great trip.  I’ll post another report on flies, leaders, and tactics in general. My son Glen (22) and I drove to Vancouver BC, and then flew to Yellowknife NWT by way of Edmonton Alberta.  Since there aren’t many flights we wound up leaving the house at 2:30 AM to catch the 7:00 departure in Vancouver.  No time to sleep after packing.  We arrived in Yellowknife a little after noon and goofed around town until the 7:00 PM flight to Trout Rock Lodge.  It’s only 30 or 40 miles by air, and the twin Otter got us there in a hurry.  We talked to the party of 10 from Minnesota that was leaving as we arrived.  It turns out they fished for 7 days and caught 133 fish over 40 inches with the biggest being 49.5 inches.  That fish was probably over 30#.  Those fish probably averaged 22 pounds or more, and weighed a total of one and a half tons.  Many more fish were caught that were under 40", that’s the size they measure before releasing. The resort has nice cabins that sleep 4 comfortably.  They’re a tad bigger than the ones at Devil’s Lake ND, and they have a sink.  The bathroom is not as fancy as the ones in ND, there is an outhouse, a single shower with hot water, and a regular toilet in the lodge building.  All the meals are provided, breakfast and dinner in the lodge, and pike cooked many different ways for shore lunch. Our first day started with eggs cooked to order and then we were off to find the pike.  Our guide, Mike, was new to the area this year, but had been guiding at Great Bear Lake for Plummer’s for the last few years so he knew his stuff.  There are three native guides, Jonas, Frank, and Eddie, who grew up in the area and know all the rocks. Since I’d been at the resort three times before, Ragnar thought I’d be able to work with the new guy and maybe even show him some spots he hadn’t been shown yet.  That worked nicely and we were delighted with his service. The first day Glen caught the big one at 43", and another one 40".  My biggest was 41".  We didn’t count the rest of the fish, but I’m sure there were more than 30 each averaging 5 to 10 pounds.  Some of my favorite spots were not well populated, the fish seemed to be in 3-7 feet of water instead of the shallows where we hoped to sight fish.   Glen’s fly was a blue and white fish hair tube fly about 6 inches long.  I was using a green and white seabait fly about 4 inches long.  Both flies had 4/0 hooks.  Dinner was charcoal grilled pork chops with mashed potatoes, salad, veggies, and a home baked cake for desert.  All this was washed down with a couple bottles of Ragnar’s private label G.G.G red wine.   That’s Granite Grown Grapes.  A nice flavor somewhere between Lambrusco and Bordolino.  I went out on the dock later, and was treated to a fine sunset.  A pair of loons swam by about 30 feet out, as they got about 50 yards up the shore, suddenly a pair of ducks scooted out onto the lake, and then an eagle flew out of the same spot and right at me.  He went by about 20 feet over my head, an immature golden eagle. The second day we awoke at 6:30, 3 hours after sunrise, to clouds and wet ground.  The fishing was slow today, we found lots of smaller fish, but nothing over 32 inches.  We could feel that a storm was brewing, and the fish seemed to know too.  About 2:00 the wind picked up and the fishing tapered off some more.  We smelled smoke, and discovered that a small fire had started on the island where we’d had lunch.  Apparently they hadn’t put the fire out carefully enough and the strong wind had blown some coals out of the fire ring and started some brush on fire.   We got some buckets and put it out as the wind increased to about 30mph, and fog and rain moved in.  No mosquitoes today, the wind had them holed up nicely. The third day we had the same wind.  It had persisted through the night, and it looked pretty ugly out there.  The group of 4 from California opted to stay home, but Ron and Dave and Glen and I decided to have a go at it.  It was tough casting, and the fish were hard to find, but we managed a couple lunch fish of 8 pounds or so, and were glad to be out instead of stuck at the resort.  Ron managed a 39" fish on a spoon, but that was the only large fish caught that day. The fourth day the wind had settled back to 10 mph or so, and it was clear.  We started the day with a nice 32" fish in an area that hadn’t produced before, and then we moved back to the "Bowling Alley" where the big fish had been caught the week before.  I hooked into the biggest one so far, 44" and nice and fat.  We each caught 30 to 40 fish, again averaging near 10 pounds, but no others over 40".  Dinner was caribou shis-ka-bob, very tasty. Our last day looked even better than the day before.  The wind was down to 2 mph, the water was clearer, in all it looked like a great day.  It was Glen’s day for big fish.  He landed a 43" fish that probably outweighed my 44" fish from yesterday.  We both caught a couple fish of 38 or 39 inches, and then the wind started picking up.  Fred, the grandpa of the California group caught a 42" pike despite the fact he could only cast about 25 feet.  It was great fun to watch an 80+ year old man so excited catching a big fish.  It was his biggest fish ever.   Then Glen hooked a fish that was bigger than any we’d seen so far.  He brought it to the surface next to the boat several times, but it just charged off and he clearly didn’t have it under control yet.  As he was adjusting the drag the crank on his reel got caught in his vest and the fish took off on another strong run.  It broke the leader at the nail knot.  The 40# butt material broke in the knot, and the fish took off with the fly and the leader.  If Glen hadn’t had a particularly strong grip, the fish would have just ripped the rod from his hand.  Amazing power in these fish. After dinner it was time to fly out to Yellowknife and then home the next morning.  Despite the freak wind storm, this was a great trip.   Next year we’ll do it again. Chas A piker if there ever was one! See www.enodah.com for more info about the resort.

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Question:

The panga fishing is much more fun for flyfishing.  Cruisers are for offshore marlin and such.  We went with Beto Nunez on Pangas a couple months ago and had a grand time with Sierra Mackeral.  I used my 10wt becuase it could cast farther. This time of year the roosterfish should be available.  You’ll want the 10wt and lots of backing for these guys. They’re good folks who speak English and catch fish. Chas – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Group! This message is also crossposted to rec.outdoors.fishing, and rec.outdoors.fishing.fly I’m headed to Los Cabos for a few days in early June with my brothers. Of the three attending, none are really fishermen. What would be a good experience for them- catching fish but not necessarily spending all day ion a boat offshore? Now for me: Can anyone define the experiences of  panga vs. cruiser? How’s the inshore fishing? Should I take along a 10 wt? Would it do me any good? I like to catch fish, they don’t necessarily have to monsters, in fact I prefer a light tackle for spirited light fish rather than cranking a coffee can with a behemoth  attached 10 miles out- although I enjoy that as well. That said, I know marlin and billfish are the real sportsmen’s game in Cabo – what else completes the Cabo fishing experience? We really only have two full days, so any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks Cow

Fix underscore in address to reply

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Hi Group! This message is also crossposted to rec.outdoors.fishing, and rec.outdoors.fishing.fly I’m headed to Los Cabos for a few days in early June with my brothers. Of the three attending, none are really fishermen. What would be a good experience for them- catching fish but not necessarily spending all day ion a boat offshore? Now for me: Can anyone define the experiences of  panga vs. cruiser? How’s the inshore fishing? Should I take along a 10 wt? Would it do me any good? I like to catch fish, they don’t necessarily have to monsters, in fact I prefer a light tackle for spirited light fish rather than cranking a coffee can with a behemoth  attached 10 miles out- although I enjoy that as well. That said, I know marlin and billfish are the real sportsmen’s game in Cabo – what else completes the Cabo fishing experience? We really only have two full days, so any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks Cow

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I’ve been to East Cape, 3 times and have only used the super pangos because they have a canvas top and room for 2 fishermen. You’ll fry in the heat without a top. A lot depends on your guide, they all seem to want to fish for marlin, it’s the macho thing plus they like to sell the meat. I release mine. By the way, I haven’t fly fished there. I prefer to fish for dorado (dolphin) and I think it would be a blast to fish for them with a fly rod, but I haven’t been back since I took up fly fishing. I’ve caught rooster fish using bait and fishing deep. In the morning you can see them working bait fish in the surf, you might be able to do a little shore fishing for them. I tried with rubber lures and the needle fish tore them up on every cast. I don’t know how a fly would hold up. Your friends could stay on shore and get drunk, play in the pool, if your hotel has one, and snorkel. East Cape is more remote than Cabo with only fish camps and no shopping. Ron

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Group! This message is also crossposted to rec.outdoors.fishing, and rec.outdoors.fishing.fly I’m headed to Los Cabos for a few days in early June with my brothers. Of the three attending, none are really fishermen. What would be a good experience for them- catching fish but not necessarily spending all day ion a boat offshore? Now for me: Can anyone define the experiences of  panga vs. cruiser? How’s the inshore fishing? Should I take along a 10 wt? Would it do me any good? I like to catch fish, they don’t necessarily have to monsters, in fact I prefer a light tackle for spirited light fish rather than cranking a coffee can with a behemoth  attached 10 miles out- although I enjoy that as well. That said, I know marlin and billfish are the real sportsmen’s game in Cabo – what else completes the Cabo fishing experience? We really only have two full days, so any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks Cow

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Golf the Nicklaus coures. Go to the Giggling Marlin. Get a taco from one of the little places. Go to The Office and sit outside for happy hour. Huge fried shrimp and a bucket of cold ones to go with amazing scenery on many levels.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Group! This message is also crossposted to rec.outdoors.fishing, and rec.outdoors.fishing.fly I’m headed to Los Cabos for a few days in early June with my brothers. Of the three attending, none are really fishermen. What would be a good experience for them- catching fish but not necessarily spending all day ion a boat offshore? Now for me: Can anyone define the experiences of  panga vs. cruiser? How’s the inshore fishing? Should I take along a 10 wt? Would it do me any good? I like to catch fish, they don’t necessarily have to monsters, in fact I prefer a light tackle for spirited light fish rather than cranking a coffee can with a behemoth  attached 10 miles out- although I enjoy that as well. That said, I know marlin and billfish are the real sportsmen’s game in Cabo – what else completes the Cabo fishing experience? We really only have two full days, so any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks Cow

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Question:

    Earlier today I e-mailed Willi a picture of an attractive young lady in a library, wearing thick glasses and little else (see last weeks Boulder library thread). Willi hasn’t answered or posted anything to roff since then, so I can only assume Susan opened the e-mail and promptly killed the poor guy.              (snif)

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    Earlier today I e-mailed Willi a picture of an attractive young lady in a library, wearing thick glasses and little else (see last weeks Boulder library thread). Willi hasn’t answered or posted anything to roff since then, so I can only assume Susan opened the e-mail and promptly killed the poor guy.              (snif)

Not something that Susan would give a shit about, well maybe if she found us in bed together, but a picture? You mentioned fishing.  Think you could get us on one of those stretches you have "ins" on just outside of town?  When there’s water flowing, the lower Poudre has been very good.  Lots of midges out with the fish feeding all day. The trout in the canyon although catchable are icecubes already. Willi

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You mentioned fishing.  Think you could get us on one of those stretches you have "ins" on just outside of town?

Hah! Now she is after you Charlie.  You’re next on the endangered fly fisherman’s list! — Warren www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

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You mentioned fishing.  Think you could get us on one of those stretches you have "ins" on just outside of town? Hah! Now she is after you Charlie.  You’re next on the endangered fly fisherman’s list!

   Yup, I wasn’t fooled for a second. I wonder if Sue’s a very good fly fisher?

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Not something that Susan would give a shit about, well maybe if she found us in bed together, but a picture?

   Well I, for one, hope she never finds us in bed together.

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Not something that Susan would give a shit about, well maybe if she found us in bed together, but a picture?    Well I, for one, hope she never finds us in bed together.

ME too!!!! When I reread it after posting, I knew it didn’t sound right. Willi

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You mentioned fishing.  Think you could get us on one of those stretches you have "ins" on just outside of town? Willi

  Careful, Willi.  I had the pleasure of spending last Friday evening with Charlie & Pat for a visit and supper (and a fine cigar).  The next day, Charlie took me to one of his secret fishing holes.  I caught giant bluegill, crappie, a largemouth and a couple of different species of trout.  All on streamers.  What a beautiful day.  Must have caught 20 fish (to Charlie’s 40?).  But, my shoulder may never be the same.  Put a "hitch" in it setting the hook so many times.  I tried an ice pack but the only thing that seems to relieve the hurt is some ‘ol Mil. Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

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Question:

I have been an avid, die hard fly fisherman for many years now, and now my three sons are also addicted to the sport. I recently decided to try using barbless hooks on some of my mini leech and damselfly patterns. I seem to be betting the same hook set, but 90% of the fish are long line released and I see nothing wrong with what I am doing. Any Ideas??

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I have been an avid, die hard fly fisherman for many years now, and now my three sons are also addicted to the sport. I recently decided to try using barbless hooks on some of my mini leech and damselfly patterns. I seem to be betting the same hook set, but 90% of the fish are long line released and I see nothing wrong with what I am doing. Any Ideas??

Just do more of the same Mike.  If you’re losing fish, you have been letting slack get in the line and when they jump, you’re not bowing to the fish.  Chances are you’re stripping in real fast to get the slack out but you must have too much slack laying on the ground.  Try fishing with less slack and get on the reel ASAP would be my advice.   Another thing you must remember is "which side of the fishes mouth" are you hooked up in?  You hook up with the fish FACING the current.  When they are fighting and turn away from the current, you need to go easy. Only pull harder when they are facing the current and the hook is on your side of the jaw. Hope this helps Mike, — MrG/American Sportsman "the saga continues"

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Keep a tight line! Ernie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been an avid, die hard fly fisherman for many years now, and now my three sons are also addicted to the sport. I recently decided to try using barbless hooks on some of my mini leech and damselfly patterns. I seem to be betting the same hook set, but 90% of the fish are long line released and I see nothing wrong with what I am doing. Any Ideas??

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Don’t feel like the lone ranger! I had the same problem day before yesterday on the Conejos River in south central Colorado. Great fly fishing with 12 to 18 inch browns and some larger that I lost either with the  long line release (I like that) or a few cases of snap the 6X tippet. It was great fun nonetheless! Damn, now I’m back in Dallas… Graham – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been an avid, die hard fly fisherman for many years now, and now my three sons are also addicted to the sport. I recently decided to try using barbless hooks on some of my mini leech and damselfly patterns. I seem to be betting the same hook set, but 90% of the fish are long line released and I see nothing wrong with what I am doing. Any Ideas??

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I have been an avid, die hard fly fisherman for many years now, and now my three sons are also addicted to the sport. I recently decided to try using barbless hooks on some of my mini leech and damselfly patterns. I seem to be betting the same hook set, but 90% of the fish are long line released and I see nothing wrong with what I am doing. Any Ideas??

I have days like that.  Other days, it doesn’t happen.  Could be any number of things going on.  Smaller hooks are made of thinner wire which necessarily equates with sharper hooks…..large hooks are more likely to fail to penetrate deeply.  Some days fish are more sluggish; others, more active.  A lot of line in or on the water is more difficult to control.  A long or light tippet stretches more.  There are a host of other factors which might come into play.  At any rate, barbless hooks suggest you are planning to release them anyway, no?  A little earlier is better than a little later for the fish.

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I have been an avid, die hard fly fisherman for many years now, and now my three sons are also addicted to the sport. I recently decided to try using barbless hooks on some of my mini leech and damselfly patterns.

Is there a chance that in your anticipation of having to keep the pressure on the hook that you are setting up too quickly and not getting solid hookups? I’ve been crushing the barbs off my hooks for years now and it seems like at first, when I was concerned about the hook staying in place, that I may have done just that. It doesn’t seem to be a problem anymore. Flyfish

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Mr. G. made some great points.  Like FlyFish, I’ve been using barbless hooks or flattening barbs for a few years now and when I lose a fish most times it’s due to having too much line on the water and not getting the fish on the real quickly enough. GL…and tight lines! Natty

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Question:

I’m a farmer from the midwest, and I have seen this behavior many times before.  In a hoglot (it can happen with cattle also) when one pig is picked on and shows too much weakness, often many other pigs will jump in and attack it.  They will often continue until they kill the weak pig. Now the article is gone so I cannot even read it, much less respond to it.  Usually when something stinks, it needs to be aired out.

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FAOL made a public relations mistake by censoring opposing points of view in the public message forums and guest book.

Exactly right. I have been hearing a lot about how MC ‘censored’ Ole Rupe’s article when, in fact, FAOL censored any and all opposing comments, and based on Deanna’s reply to MC, she still doesn’t see why this was wrong. If opposing views had been allowed from the beginning, this whole debate would have been conducted on FAOL, where it belonged. Just imagine if Time magazine, for instance, published this article and refused to acknowledge any opposing views, but published a weak disclaimer a few issues later. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down" ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

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Geez, bc, the anti-defamation league? Isn’t that overkill?   I don’t know why any responsible publisher (even on the net) would publish such crap but I guess I would just desub.  Seems like everbody wants to censor.  What a pain in the ass.

He incited killing people based on race.   Funniest thing, the author apparently doesn’t know anything about his subject, first-hand.  "If I lived" kinda makes you wonder about what he really would do if he did live there.  My guess would be hide under a rock.

He would be the last person I would invite on a hunting trip bc.

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Folks Racists and their closet brethren are uniformly cowards and depend on easy prey and a wimpy defense. When they get challenged they generally run for cover. When they get their ass kicked they cry foul. When they are on top they kill and incite others to kill.  Civilized people who refuse to accept the inconvenience of the fight are walking shaky ground. Anyone feeling sorry for these assholes might try to consider how  Native American kids who accessed Ole Rupe’s racist shit felt. One of the most important lessons of the 20th Century is that racists and Nazis will use the hood at night, the gas chamber when they can get away with it and a cynical intellectualized stance when it suits them, and further, that the only effective way to fight them is to make them pay a high price for their bullshit. Good riddance, F*** Rupe and the horse he rode in on Dave

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Why don’t you just email the author and ask for a copy?<

Who the fuck is the author?   And that’s not the point, anyway.  However, valiant ROFFians have provided me with this "tempest in a teapot"  piece of shit. Waste of good bandwidth to even discuss it.

Response:

I certainly have no tolerance for censorship. Had I been able to read the article perhaps I would have reacted differently, but thanks to all you "right thinkers" I do not have that opportunity. Expressing an opinion and attempting to force other expressions off the net are two different things.  I trust you can see that.

I am not condoning censorship.  FAOL made the decision to publish the article unedited in its original form.  The article would have been just as effective with out the racial overtones.  FAOL made a public relations mistake by censoring opposing points of view in the public message forums and guest book.  It was only after this censorship took place, did I start my letter campaign making sponsors and organizations like the Anti-Defamation League aware of that article. bc.

Response:

It was only after this censorship took

place, did I start my letter campaign making sponsors and organizations like the Anti-Defamation League aware of that article.< Geez, bc, the anti-defamation league?   Isn’t that overkill?  I don’t know why any responsible publisher (even on the net) would publish such crap but I guess I would just desub.  Seems like everbody wants to censor.  What a pain in the ass. Funniest thing, the author apparently doesn’t know anything about his subject, first-hand.  "If I lived" kinda makes you wonder about what he really would do if he did live there.  My guess would be hide under a rock.

Response:

Why don’t you just email the author and ask for a copy?< Who the fuck is the author?   And that’s not the point, anyway.  However, valiant ROFFians have provided me with this "tempest in a teapot"  piece of shit. Waste of good bandwidth to even discuss it.

I believe the whole thing started because Mike didn’t want articles he had written in the same ‘publication’ as that one, which is his right as an author. You were complaining that the result of his actions deprived you of your opportunity to read the article. FWIW. — Charlie…

Response:

I believe the whole thing started because Mike didn’t want articles he

had written in the same ‘publication’ as that one, which is his right as an author. You were complaining that the result of his actions deprived you of your opportunity to read the article. FWIW.< In spite of the recent Ct of Appeals decision, whether or not it’s his right is still up in the air IMO.  But yeah, I was complaining about that.   Now that I’ve read it, I wish I had had the opportunity to read it BEFORE I got into this thread.  And that’s the closest thing to an apology anyone is going to get from me. <g

Response:

Isn’t that overkill?  I don’t know why any responsible publisher (even on the net) would publish such crap but I guess I would just desub.  Seems like everbody wants to censor.  What a pain in the ass.

Good point Harry. I raised a stink precisely because I do appreciate FAOL and have no desire to "unsubscribe". If the publication were of no value and little read, there would have been no outcry. I said as much to Deanna in reply to an email, I hope she takes it to heart. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

I do not regret any of my actions, and would do the same thing again if necessary.  I do regret the damage caused to the site, or to people connected with it, but this is in no way my responsibility.  This is purely the result of their own actions. The decision to close is up to the publishers alone, and I have no influence in the matter.

Mike certainly doesn’t need validation from me, but I do agree with the way he handled the whole mess. He removed himself from a publication he didn’t agree with, and told people why. The situation got a bit excessive, but the publisher’s actions and responses seemed to be as bizarre as the author’s, including shutting down the site and the ‘enjoy your victory’ bullshit. Sounds like one bad association (Rupe, Deanna, the public, and Mike) just waiting to flame out…and it did. — Jeff Cook http://www.cookstudios.com Washington DC area

Response:

What’s with this "closure" of FAOL? Does that mean they’re shutting it down altogether? Why? Is this a case of the publisher "eating worms"? Will she have second thoughts? Or have all her sponsors deserted her? Tune in at 11. Seriously, folks, this is what they call a perverse result. I don’t think anyone in ROFF who was offended by the article wanted FAOL to cease to exist. Maybe a letter-writing campaign to their ex-sponsors along these lines would be called for: "I am satisfied by FAOL’s apology and retraction of the offensive article. Please continue your sponsorship of this fine web site." Not that it will do much good. One more thing. Before you start letter-writing campaigns to sponsors when you see something you don’t like on an otherwise excellent website, think about perverse effects. Wait at least of few days. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

HR, Like a spoiled little boy, he demanded that they return his ball.  If you don’t do what I want, I’ll take my ball (those precious "articles") and go home.

The analogy to the spoiled little boy and his ball is something of a stretch.  Mike’s contributions were more than a ball.  They could easily be construed as an endorsement of the site and, once the site stepped over a line to which Mike is sensitive, it’s understandable that Mike would no longer want his name associated with that site. Thanks to Mike and others of his ilk, I have not read the article.  

Mike and his ilk aren’t the only problem, here.  As I understand it, their opposing views were censored before they took additional steps. We can now only speculate how things might have turned out had opposing views been given prompt and equally prominent exposure. But even if I had, and found it racist,  I would not have demanded it’s removal.

I also wish the whole affair had been handled differently.  You may recall that I was one who opposed Mr. G’s remarks about Indians/fishing on ROFF.

Sorry.  I didn’t see those posts… But noooo, apparently I and others are not to be allowed that privilege.

It doesn’t seem possible that you believe the site in question is/was the only place on earth you could read that article.  Assuming Rupe is willing, it may be posted elsewhere.  You might even hunt Rupe up and request a copy if you’re as passionate as you sound about wanting to read it yourself.  It might even be that one of the article’s antagonists grabbed a copy and could email it to you.  But you gotta ask. The CENSORS have had their way.

I’m not arguing that point.  As I said before, I had concerns about the "censorship" aspect of the issue.  Censorship, though, isn’t always a dirty word.  You could say that I censored Larry Flint by keeping Hustler Magazine out of my house.  There were kids around. Was that kind of "censorship" a bad thing? We’ve long had laws on the books to discourage uncivil speech in public places.  It hasn’t been that long ago that a dunked boater was busted and prosecuted for cussing up a blue streak around women and kids.  Certainly you can argue that such laws infringe freedom of speech. But when you can walk into any supermarket and run a good chance of finding yourself — and your kids — in the checkout line behind somebody wearing a tee-shirt emblazoned with all manner of obscenites — you have to wonder… If we now find ourselves so enlightened that such laws are an embarrasment, what remedies do you propose for those who prefer not to be accosted by uncivil speech?  Are we to reduce them to staying indoors and keeping their mouths shut?  If that’s the answer, haven’t we censored them? One of my points to which you didn’t respond was the issue of all of us using our influence to affect the world around us.  What I’m wondering about is something like this: Remember when the Exxon Valdez ran aground?  Remember Exxon’s grudging responses?  Suppose somebody had succeeded in motivating a large number of Exxon customers to protest by buying their petrol elsewhere. Would that have been dirty pool or economic terrorism? Don’t us mere citizens have a right to prod and push our world about to shape it into something we think would be better? The way I see it, freedom of speech is a door that swings both ways. That is, say what you like, but be prepared for others to respond by saying what _they_ like.  And sometimes they say it _very_ loudly. Which is what Mike did. Wes Peterson LexCraft Data Services

Response:

I have always had a pretty good opinion of you Mike but I must say that I understand now why you live in Germany.  Who the fuck put you in charge of anything, much less in charge of deciding what should and should not appear on the net?  You have come out of this looking like a pretentious asshole IMO. But now I guess you can write some of your famous doggerel and everything will be all right.

Blaine, First of all, country of origin as nothing to do with expressing you’re own point of view. Mike did not put himself in charge of anything.  He has the legal right to express his opinion.  The publishers of the site made a business decision to put that article unedited on their commercial site.  The article would have been just as effective without those comments. When opposing points of view were expressed, they were quickly censored and removed from the public areas of the site.  Their justification was that they were off topic and inflammatory. If I go to a bookstore and pick up the latest issue of a fly fishing magazine, I can make a fair assumption that the articles enclosed will contain material relevant to the sport.  That the articles will not be intertwined with racial comments, incitement to kill someone and that 30/06 rifle rounds is inexpensive.  The same assumption should be made of an online magazine dedicated to fly-fishing. As far as I am concerned the staff of FAOL could have handled the entire situation better. The article in its original form had no business being on a commercial venue like FAOL. Based on the responses that I have received from sponsors when I sent out my email, I could surmise that they agree.   You and FAOL lack one thing: tolerance bc.

Response:

Presumably you think its OK for people to voice their hatred and poisonous

viewpoints, but not OK to do anything actively to oppose them ?< I have no knowledge of what was written and thanks to you and others like you, I will apparently have no opportunity to.  What I do oppose is censorship in any way shape or form.   No doubt you will live to censor another day.  And I’m glad I distressed you.  Certainly you have distressed me.

Response:

You and FAOL lack one thing: tolerance< I certainly have no tolerance for censorship. Had I been able to read the article perhaps I would have reacted differently, but thanks to all you "right thinkers" I do not have that opportunity. Expressing an opinion and attempting to force other expressions off the net are two different things.  I trust you can see that.

Would you like a copy of it?  I kept a copy for reference. Peter

Response:

You and FAOL lack one thing: tolerance<

I certainly have no tolerance for censorship. Had I been able to read the article perhaps I would have reacted differently, but thanks to all you "right thinkers" I do not have that opportunity. Expressing an opinion and attempting to force other expressions off the net are two different things.  I trust you can see that.

Response:

I have no knowledge of what was written and thanks to you and others like you, I will apparently have no opportunity to.  What I do oppose is censorship in any way shape or form.   No doubt you will live to censor another day.  And I’m glad I distressed you.  Certainly you have distressed me.

Why don’t you just email the author and ask for a copy? — Charlie…

Response:

Would you like a copy of it?  I kept a copy for reference.<

Thanks, Peter but Christian sent me one.   Is THIS really what all the fuss is about? "With regard to native American fishing rights I hold the politically incorrect view that the only good Indian is a dead Indian. If I lived  where they gill netted steelhead I would be on the 6 p.m. news. Uncle Sam taught me how to remove problems at 300 meters." Stupid?  Yes.  Disgusting that someone would put this onto the net (or anyplace, for that matter)?  Absolutely.   I disagree totally with the ideas expressed there.  Would I bitch about them?  Hell yes.   Do I believe that Rupe (or whatever the hell his name is) has a right to express them.  Yes, I do.   On a fly fishing site?  While I disagree violently with him, his comments are related to fishing.  So why not?  It’s not like his ideas, however unpalatable, are apt to have the impact of, say, shouting "fire" in a crowded theatre, now are they. With all the horrible examoles of racism that we see and have seen, frankly, this appears to me to be a tempest in a teapot. There are a lot better ways of fighting evil than writing about it on the net. But then, we’re writers, not doers, eh?

Response:

<long "final" rant snipped I have always had a pretty good opinion of you Mike but I must say that I understand now why you live in Germany.  Who the fuck put you in charge of anything, much less in charge of deciding what should and should not appear on the net?  You have come out of this looking like a pretentious asshole IMO. But now I guess you can write some of your famous doggerel and everything will be all right.

You are entitled to your opinion, good or bad.  Your insulting generalised implications of why I live where I live are unnecessary, unfortunate, unfounded, unworthy and not a little distressing. I am not in charge of anything at all. I simply voiced a perfectly normal protest at a particularly crass example of racism, in a place and under circumstances which where extremely upsetting. Your opinion of my person is also not particularly nice, but you have every right to voice it. I will doubtless survive nevertheless. Presumably you think its OK for people to voice their hatred and poisonous viewpoints, but not OK to do anything actively to oppose them ? Let

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A.P.Dryden schrieb in Nachricht … Okay, I’ll fess up, too. I suck at drinking The Famous Grouse. I’m self-taught, from books. Never had a drinking lesson. :-O -<=== (me, drinking straight from the bottle of life) — A.P. Dryden A Loyal Explorer of The Famous Grouse Share a Wee Dram and a Tall Tale at http://www.famousgrouse.com/explorers Considering my well known and widely praised lyrical laudations of your esteemed beverage, and following a whim, basically engendered by being referred to as a salon fixture, failed  poet and a dumb popcorn fuelled farting ox, which caused me to imbibe freely of the aforementioned excellent beverage, probably due to fear of instant withering, and as a form of preventive medication, I had occasion to wander into your hallowed halls and was shocked to discover a flagrant case of discrimination, as opposed to a fragrant case of whiskey. In order to alleviate the almost fatal shock resulting from this discovery of unquieting enormity, I was obliged to partake of a further half bottle in order to steady my shattered faith in humankind, and restore my constitution and strengthen my unwavering resolve to continue my explorations. How is it sir that only colonials are admitted to your illustrious ranks, by whose decree is one of the highest possible honours ever to be bestowed on a grateful and undeserving multitude only available to members of a formal penal colony ? That juveniles may not be admitted to the glorious ranks is clear, and requires no further enlightenment, but I sir am an Englishman ! I beg you to reconsider your decision, as otherwise I will be forced to send her most regal majesties official diapproval, a tanker load of freeze dried tea,  and an expeditionary force to convince you of our basically peaceful intentions. We ask, nay sir we demand ! that these unjust and unecessarily cruel discriminations cease forthwith, otherwise sir the consequences may be grave indeed, and might well otherwise result in many wantonly resorting to the uncontrolled use of port and brandy. Yours sincerely Michael A.B.Connor  Class of ROFF 99 ( failed ).

   Huh! (didn’t talk till 6, pointen worked jest fine)                                                                John Popp                                                           in Sanford Fl.

Response:

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– While in non-compliance with local decency ordinances the world over, We ask, nay sir we demand ! that these unjust and unecessarily cruel discriminations cease forthwith, otherwise sir the consequences may be grave indeed, and might well otherwise result in many wantonly resorting to the uncontrolled use of port and brandy.

Truly the act of a desperate man. My gawd, I’ve got scotch like nobody’s business, but none of it’s the bird. Anything more expensive than Pete Dawson’s messes me up the morning after. Want some? —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNrB40ZdiUzdLFqlpAQEtvgf/RxrzL00kA35+K1jREtq+eN3IsCfj/EtD Z/F5e5+LjTkNmcMx/ztVxWqlmh7Eiw+yTbeeD1BOXaoFwlqRag8vbAUfHcmXT87A q6PTzOfrU20si/S8sJlYPmwr60mZrfwvlcrMTi5n97qLneppSQrG/lF2dPm0VL3I Bjh4TA4iS62MMx7ouBVWnGE/QQso1anrwSu33JfVHlKGfLQyTiGWM94r2SkOEg2z E1IrQFJCHWpL2cO49udHzsNc55+EVRWqGJyf/VNnMZpT9kxjw+Bk63+DW9EhfPMm aYifNpyGpHzfBQ55/1e9nNO37BeOvSwq0dh/rzzubp0jVg7/xnO0FA== =T2BU —–END PGP SIGNATURE—– Mike S. Medintz, http://www.grapevine.net/~medintz "I’m a liberal conservative. I believe in keeping things the way that  they should have been in the first place." -anon.

Response:

Mike Medintz: <<—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– While in non-compliance with local decency ordinances the world over, We ask, nay sir we demand ! that these unjust and unecessarily cruel discriminations cease forthwith, otherwise sir the consequences may be grave indeed, and might well otherwise result in many wantonly resorting to the uncontrolled use of port and brandy.

Truly the act of a desperate man. My gawd, I’ve got scotch like nobody’s business, but none of it’s the bird. Anything more expensive than Pete Dawson’s messes me up the morning after. Want some? —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNrB40ZdiUzdLFqlpAQEtvgf/RxrzL00kA35+K1jREtq+eN3IsCfj/EtD Z/F5e5+LjTkNmcMx/ztVxWqlmh7Eiw+yTbeeD1BOXaoFwlqRag8vbAUfHcmXT87A q6PTzOfrU20si/S8sJlYPmwr60mZrfwvlcrMTi5n97qLneppSQrG/lF2dPm0VL3I Bjh4TA4iS62MMx7ouBVWnGE/QQso1anrwSu33JfVHlKGfLQyTiGWM94r2SkOEg2z E1IrQFJCHWpL2cO49udHzsNc55+EVRWqGJyf/VNnMZpT9kxjw+Bk63+DW9EhfPMm aYifNpyGpHzfBQ55/1e9nNO37BeOvSwq0dh/rzzubp0jVg7/xnO0FA== =T2BU —–END PGP SIGNATURE—– Mike S. Medintz, http://www.grapevine.net/~medintz "I’m a liberal conservative. I believe in keeping things the way that  they should have been in the first place." -anon. Mike, just curious, but what the hell is all the stuff between "Begin PGP Signature"  and "End PGP Signature"?  And, why is it there? Dave LaCourse

Response:

Okay, I’ll fess up, too. I suck at drinking The Famous Grouse. I’m self-taught, from books. Never had a drinking lesson. :-O -<=== (me, drinking straight from the bottle of life)

A.P., that’s what we need to really get ROFF going, and further irritate those who are complaining about content – drinking lessons. Based on your vast experience, I think you should start with a post or two about techniques for attacking the famous grouse. Mark Faulkner

Response:

A.P.Dryden schrieb in Nachricht … Okay, I’ll fess up, too. I suck at drinking The Famous Grouse. I’m self-taught, from books. Never had a drinking lesson. :-O -<=== (me, drinking straight from the bottle of life) — A.P. Dryden A Loyal Explorer of The Famous Grouse Share a Wee Dram and a Tall Tale at http://www.famousgrouse.com/explorers

Considering my well known and widely praised lyrical laudations of your esteemed beverage, and following a whim, basically engendered by being referred to as a salon fixture, failed  poet and a dumb popcorn fuelled farting ox, which caused me to imbibe freely of the aforementioned excellent beverage, probably due to fear of instant withering, and as a form of preventive medication, I had occasion to wander into your hallowed halls and was shocked to discover a flagrant case of discrimination, as opposed to a fragrant case of whiskey. In order to alleviate the almost fatal shock resulting from this discovery of unquieting enormity, I was obliged to partake of a further half bottle in order to steady my shattered faith in humankind, and restore my constitution and strengthen my unwavering resolve to continue my explorations. How is it sir that only colonials are admitted to your illustrious ranks, by whose decree is one of the highest possible honours ever to be bestowed on a grateful and undeserving multitude only available to members of a formal penal colony ? That juveniles may not be admitted to the glorious ranks is clear, and requires no further enlightenment, but I sir am an Englishman ! I beg you to reconsider your decision, as otherwise I will be forced to send her most regal majesties official diapproval, a tanker load of freeze dried tea,  and an expeditionary force to convince you of our basically peaceful intentions. We ask, nay sir we demand ! that these unjust and unecessarily cruel discriminations cease forthwith, otherwise sir the consequences may be grave indeed, and might well otherwise result in many wantonly resorting to the uncontrolled use of port and brandy. Yours sincerely Michael A.B.Connor  Class of ROFF 99 ( failed ).

Response:

(Frogspritz) writes: Based on your vast experience, I think you should start with a post or two about techniques for attacking the famous grouse.

I’ll start. How to serve Famous Grouse. 1. Open Bottle 2. Get appropriate glass. 3. Pour Famous Grouse down the sink. 4. Pour into the glass an appropiate single malt scotch. 5. Enjoy! Wayne Knight Geneva IL                            

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A.P.Dryden schrieb in Nachricht … Okay, I’ll fess up, too. I suck at drinking The Famous Grouse. I’m self-taught, from books. Never had a drinking lesson. :-O -<=== (me, drinking straight from the bottle of life) — A.P. Dryden A Loyal Explorer of The Famous Grouse Share a Wee Dram and a Tall Tale at http://www.famousgrouse.com/explorers Considering my well known and widely praised lyrical laudations of your esteemed beverage, and following a whim, basically engendered by being referred to as a salon fixture, failed  poet and a dumb popcorn fuelled farting ox, which caused me to imbibe freely of the aforementioned excellent beverage, probably due to fear of instant withering, and as a form of preventive medication, I had occasion to wander into your hallowed halls Yours sincerely

(snip of hilarious stuff) Michael A.B.Connor  Class of ROFF 99 ( failed ).

        wonderfully done, michael!         damn near enough to turn you into an anglophile, isn’t it, taffy ol friend? wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

I figure now is the time to fess up, before you all meet me in NC. Besides the fact that i’m the youngest buck in the group, I suck at flyfishing. I’m self taught, from books. Never had a casting lesson, tying lesson, or any other type of lesson. So you guys leave me alone when I start snagging your clothes and tying masturful blobs of dubbing! Tim Apple P.S. I am very proficient at drinking the Famouse Grouse though.

Response:

I figure now is the time to fess up, before you all meet me in NC. Besides the fact that i’m the youngest buck in the group, I suck at flyfishing. I’m self taught, from books. Never had a casting lesson, tying lesson, or any other type of lesson. So you guys leave me alone when I start snagging your clothes and tying masturful blobs of dubbing! Tim Apple P.S. I am very proficient at drinking the Famouse Grouse though.

Tim, you actually believe we know how to fish? hell wayno’s gonna be cryin in his cabin most of the time mumbling "how did waldo sink that 30′ putt" between gulps of vodka. i’m gonna be runnin to the bank to deposit my winnings and george is gonna be screamin from his cabin "c’mon guys let me out" after we spike his door. some other nameless person will be tending to his animal husbandry. matt will be hungover, won’t be able to fish at all. tom will be playing with his loran equipment. mark will be chasing his southern dreams and wayne will be chasing other game. let’s see, that leaves big al and charlie…. imnsho, probaly damn good fishing pardners fer ya. apologies for any ruffled feathers and especially if i inadvertantly left someone out. –Wataugan "let the clave begin" Walt

Response:

What the hell was that! Speak American, damn it! TWL         Big Al – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I figure now is the time to fess up, before you all meet me in NC. Besides the fact that i’m the youngest buck in the group, I suck at flyfishing. I’m self taught, from books. Never had a casting lesson, tying lesson, or any other type of lesson. So you guys leave me alone when I start snagging your clothes and tying masturful blobs of dubbing! Tim Apple P.S. I am very proficient at drinking the Famouse Grouse though. Tim, you actually believe we know how to fish? hell wayno’s gonna be cryin in his cabin most of the time mumbling "how did waldo sink that 30′ putt" between gulps of vodka. i’m gonna be runnin to the bank to deposit my winnings and george is gonna be screamin from his cabin "c’mon guys let me out" after we spike his door. some other nameless person will be tending to his animal husbandry. matt will be hungover, won’t be able to fish at all. tom will be playing with his loran equipment. mark will be chasing his southern dreams and wayne will be chasing other game. let’s see, that leaves big al and charlie…. imnsho, probaly damn good fishing pardners fer ya. apologies for any ruffled feathers and especially if i inadvertantly left someone out. –Wataugan "let the clave begin" Walt

Response:

I figure now is the time to fess up, before you all meet me in NC. Besides the fact that i’m the youngest buck in the group, I suck at flyfishing. I’m self taught, from books. Never had a casting lesson, tying lesson, or any other type of lesson. So you guys leave me alone when I start snagging your clothes and tying masturful blobs of dubbing! Tim Apple P.S. I am very proficient at drinking the Famouse Grouse though.

*twitch!* ignore. *twitch, twitch* ignore I’m not biting! This monster is drifting down stream. the G fish —

Question:

Hi, Lets get a thread going on various tactics for fishing streams and rivers. Casting considerations Anti Skating techniques Are some examples for topics of discussion. Regards – Michael

Response:

Hi, Lets get a thread going on various tactics for fishing streams and rivers. Casting considerations Anti Skating techniques Are some examples for topics of discussion. Regards – Michael

Well fishing small streams is what i do best and most (those usually correspond).  As far as casting goes i like to dap a lot and also flip my fly to a different spot on the stream intead of a full pickup.  this usually is best because it doesn’t spook the natives.

Response:

Hi, Lets get a thread going on various tactics for fishing streams and rivers. Casting considerations Anti Skating techniques Are some examples for topics of discussion. Regards – Michael

   Well fishing small streams is what i do best and most (those usually correspond).  As far as casting goes i like to dap a lot and also flip my fly to a different spot on the stream intead of a full pickup.  this usually is best because it doesn’t spook the natives.

Response:

Yeah, I’ve found in small streams that usual rules of fly presentation often don’t apply.  An elk hair caddis that starts out as a dry fly, even when palmered, will often quickly get sucked under and pulled along as a wet and still seems to attract fish.  Dragging the fly all over the top and bouncing it over white water will get hits very commonly , sometimes even in relatively smooth water, when otherwise the slightest drag will spook fish.  Doodle bugs and Renegades also show this kind of "versatility". — Ken Brown Satis elequontiae, sapientiae parum.

Response:

Yeah, I’ve found in small streams that usual rules of fly presentation often don’t apply.  An elk hair caddis that starts out as a dry fly, even when palmered, will often quickly get sucked under and pulled along as a wet and still seems to attract fish.  Dragging the fly all over the top and bouncing it over white water will get hits very commonly , sometimes even in relatively smooth water, when otherwise the slightest drag will spook fish.  Doodle bugs and Renegades also show this kind of "versatility". — Ken Brown Satis elequontiae, sapientiae parum.

  I found the same thing in other waters.  Often it takes alittle action or sometimes alot of drag on dry caddis to get a response, and this is on fish that will be put down with just a small amount of drag when feeding on Mayfly duns. Overall, Mayflies are sedate, Caddis aren’t. Willi

Response:

While I was

wading out to a good spot at the head of a riffle, I had my fly drifting in the water when Wham! a nice 14" brown gobbled it up.  Now I purposely let my caddis dry bounce on the surrface of a riffle for a good minute or more.  Seems as though the fish see it as a caddis laying eggs and bouncing up and down on the surface.

Andrew, One might conclude (incorrectly) that one needs to have ones fly in the  water to catch fish from this… and sometimes not in the manner one would  normally use… Well, I saw a fish rising along the far bank of the Yellow Breeches some 30  feet away and cast a Letort cricket size 14 to it…. leader wrapped a small  branch of a leafy plant, causing the Letort cricket to be suspended 6" above  the water.  A rainbow leaped, nailed the cricket, broke off the leafy branch  still wrapped around the leader.   Netted ‘em both.   So… just get your fly  near a fish is sometimes good enough. tightlines, Alan E. Hoover Anglers’ Rest Powhatan, Va        *the trout teach many, lessons*

Response:

Re bouncing dry bouncing caddis in a riffle- I have done this in the dark with an elk hair sedge with rubber legs, and also let it drift dry down a glide till it reaches the end of its travel, then allowed the current to drag it across (presumably making a big vee -too dark to see!) The brownies will take at any stage of this technique, and produces bigger fish than during daylight or the dusk too. This is on a stream in N.Ireland, though I live in Scotland now! Gillaroo. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sure, I’ll bite.  Here’s one of my favorite techniques.  While I was wading out to a good spot at the head of a riffle, I had my fly drifting in the water when Wham! a nice 14" brown gobbled it up.  Now I purposely let my caddis dry bounce on the surrface of a riffle for a good minute or more.  Seems as though the fish see it as a caddis laying eggs and bouncing up and down on the surface. Anyone else try this? Andrew Hi, Lets get a thread going on various tactics for fishing streams and rivers. Casting considerations Anti Skating techniques Are some examples for topics of discussion. Regards – Michael

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Lets get a thread going on various tactics for fishing streams and rivers.

How about this one.  I’m standing on the bank, I’ve just finished a cast and my fly is trailing downstream in the current.  I tuck the rod under my elbow, and light up a smoke.  Right about the time I get the thing lit, a fish hits, pops the rod out and pulls it into the water, as I stumble around after it. Similarly, I use this cast to look at water ouzels, deer, bears and clouds. Anglerboy — Trout fear me, Women want me. http://www.midtown.net/~angler/

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How about this one.  I’m standing on the bank, I’ve just finished a cast and my fly is trailing downstream in the current.  I tuck the rod under my elbow, and light up a smoke.  Right about the time I get the thing lit, a fish hits, pops the rod out and pulls it into the water, as I stumble around after it.

I had this same experince. Managed to hold on the rod though. Huge fish too. Brad

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  Lets get a thread going on various tactics for fishing streams and rivers. How about this one.  I’m standing on the bank, I’ve just finished a cast and my fly is trailing downstream in the current.  I tuck the rod under my elbow, and light up a smoke.  Right about the time I get the thing lit, a fish hits, pops the rod out and pulls it into the water, as I stumble around after it. Similarly, I use this cast to look at water ouzels, deer, bears and clouds. Anglerboy

I do this to fool the fish into thinking that I am unprepared.

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I think of low and slow conditions during the hot summer dregs on small streams and offer the following advice:  Terrestrials.  Change flies a lot. Try some weird stuff, the trout will surprise you.  If all else fails, ah-ooooga, Dive!  Dive! with a good bead head marabou bugger. — KennyM "I fish because I love to…" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Lets get a thread going on various tactics for fishing streams and rivers. Casting considerations Anti Skating techniques Are some examples for topics of discussion. Regards – Michael

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Umm, I just found a bunch of tips from Buzz Ramesy and Tim Rajeff on the trophy rivers web site  covering flyfishing http://www.sierra.com/titles/rivers/trivers.html         "Salmon and steelhead gather                  near the river mouth before                 moving upstream to spawn.                They

Question:

– Now booking Cape Cod, MA inshore fly fishing wading trips for stripers for the 97 season. I supply all tackle and flies as well as casting instructions if needed. If you don’t score stripers, I don’t get paid. Fair enough? $125/single $200/two anglers for a full day wading trip. Email me http://www.flyfishing-the-salt.com. Email references given upon request. Good fishing…Ted Bobetsky

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– Now booking Cape Cod, MA inshore fly fishing wading trips for stripers for the 97 season. I supply all tackle and flies as well as casting instructions if needed. If you don’t score stripers, I don’t get paid. Fair enough? $125/single $200/two anglers for a full day wading trip. Email me http://www.flyfishing-the-salt.com. Good fishing…Ted Bobetsky

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Question:

Could anyone tell me what you think is the least expensive 3 weight rod?  I would also be willing to build it.  I’ve looked at the Sage 386 LL as well as some different G-Loomis rods and come to the conclusion that I don’t want or need a fast high tech rod for my small stream pack trips and would settle for a less expensive one.  

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I strongly recommend that you contact Eric at East Branch Rods. 1-800-337- EROD.  They make a sweet, moderate action rods in wts 1 thru 5.  A finished 8" 3wt 2pc is $235, a kit is $165 and a blank is $80.  Good luck.  (And, no, I’m not affiliated with them in any way.) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Could anyone tell me what you think is the least expensive 3 weight rod? I would also be willing to build it.  I’ve looked at the Sage 386 LL as well as some different G-Loomis rods and come to the conclusion that I don’t want or need a fast high tech rod for my small stream pack trips and would settle for a less expensive one.  

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I have a St. Croix Imperial 7′ 3/4 which cost about $95.  I really like the way it casts, though its cosmetics could be better

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I strongly recommend that you contact Eric at East Branch Rods. 1-800-337- EROD.  They make a sweet, moderate action rods in wts 1 thru 5.  A finished 8" 3wt 2pc is $235, a kit is $165 and a blank is $80.  Good luck. (And, no, I’m not affiliated with them in any way.) Could anyone tell me what you think is the least expensive 3 weight rod? I would also be willing to build it.  I’ve looked at the Sage 386 LL as well as some different G-Loomis rods and come to the conclusion that I don’t want or need a fast high tech rod for my small stream pack trips and would settle for a less expensive one.  

Diawa makes a 3-4 wt. 7′6" 5 pc. pack rod that sells for $200.00 CDN. I don’t know what it would retail for in the U.S. but it is cheap!  I have the 4-5 wt. version of the same rod and it has an excellent dry fly action, very cane like.  Great for short to medium casting distances.  Over the years I’ve owned Sage, Orvis, Thomas & Thomas, and Fisher rods.  The Diawa is no slouch. Peter

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writes: Could anyone tell me what you think is the least expensive 3 weight rod? I would also be willing to build it.  I’ve looked at the Sage 386 LL as well as some different G-Loomis rods and come to the conclusion that I don’t want or need a fast high tech rod for my small stream pack trips and would settle for a less expensive one.

Curtis, You can get the Orvis Rocky Mountain version of their "Tippet" rod (7 1/2′ 3wt.) with the 25 yr. no-fault guarantee for $230.  This is the same blank as the premium version without the fancy cosmetics.  You can buy the blank for $135.  It is a full flex (slow action) rod for delicate presentations and good protection of fine tippets.  If you want a faster rod (medium-fast action) that will cast better in the wind look at the HLS RM "Trico" ($240).  Not quite as easy on the tippets but definitely better in the wind.  Unfortunately, no blank is currently available for the Trico.                                                  Check it out,                                                         Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Schools Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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I have several 3 weight G. Loomis rods available for sale. Please These are IMX from 8 1/2′ through 9′. Also offering fly casting classes in WA and OR. I am a certified FFF instructor and past Orvis Asst.School Director and have worked with over 5,000 students. Please E. Mail for

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Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Moving to Detroit in a Week or so. Can you recommend me some good fly fishing in the area. Prefer areas that are around 1 to 2 hrs drive. No more. As far as I know there are no quality fly fihing areas within 1-2 hrs of Detroit. 3 hours will take you to the Au Sable and Manistee rivers which are quality fisheries. There is a very good book on fishing in Michigan. I think the author is Linnsman. I will get more specific info to you. Steve Rosenblum, Ann Arbor Steve Rosenblum Ann Arbor, Michigan Actually there is good brook trout FFishing within an hour of Detroit.   Try the Huron River.  There are several Metroparks along the river that provide access.  I haven’t fished it myself (because I didn’t have my gear with me at the time), but I saw several other FFisherpersons and I saw the 10"-16" fish.  The river is wadeable.  Try either the Hudson Mills Metropark or Dexter Huron Metropark.  On a AAA map of "Detroit and Southeast MI" you will find them at roughly coordinates 8K and 8L respectively (just west of Ann Arbor).  Good Luck.

  Actually, those fish you were seeing were probably smallies, cause I don’t think the Huron is clear or cool enough to sustain trout.

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Moving to Detroit in a Week or so. Can you recommend me some good fly fishing in the area. Prefer areas that are around 1 to 2 hrs drive. No more. As far as I know there are no quality fly fihing areas within 1-2 hrs of Detroit. 3 hours will take you to the Au Sable and Manistee rivers which are quality fisheries. There is a very good book on fishing in Michigan. I think the author is Linnsman. I will get more specific info to you. Steve Rosenblum, Ann Arbor Steve Rosenblum Ann Arbor, Michigan

Actually there is good brook trout FFishing within an hour of Detroit.   Try the Huron River.  There are several Metroparks along the river that provide access.  I haven’t fished it myself (because I didn’t have my gear with me at the time), but I saw several other FFisherpersons and I saw the 10"-16" fish.  The river is wadeable.  Try either the Hudson Mills Metropark or Dexter Huron Metropark.  On a AAA map of "Detroit and Southeast MI" you will find them at roughly coordinates 8K and 8L respectively (just west of Ann Arbor).  Good Luck.

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You are quite right Jay.  Those were smallmouth bass and the water is too warm to support trout.  I checked with the DNR and learned that the 5 mile stretch of the Huron River below Dexter is catch and release.  This has helped to improve the smallmouth population.  According to the DNR, they shock the river each spring for reasearch.  They have found smallies up to 21 inches along with rock bass, creek chubs and hog suckers.  In addition, I learned that they stock Proud Lake (within an hour of Detroit) with rainbows and browns.

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: Moving to Detroit in a Week or so. Can you recommend me some good fly : fishing in the area. Prefer areas that are around 1 to 2 hrs drive. No : more. : As far as I know there are no quality fly fihing areas within 1-2 hrs of : Detroit. 3 hours will take you to the Au Sable and Manistee rivers which : are quality fisheries. There is a very good book on fishing in Michigan. I : think the author is Linnsman. I will get more specific info to you. There are scores of quality fly fishing areas within an hour’s drive…unless you’re the sort who thinks ‘quality’ necessarily implies ‘trout’ I know of a number of great bluegill spots within 30 minutes of home, and as one fisherman I met put it, bluegills are ‘gram for gram, the fightingest fish there are!" And there are plenty of bass, pike, carp and many other species that are great fun on a fly, all close enough for after work fishing. Matter of fact, tonight a friend (who belongs to a very nice trout club with a private stream) and I are off to one of our favorite ponds to match wits with the wiley bluegill- and it’s only 20 minutes from home. –mike

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Moving to Detroit in a Week or so. Can you recommend me some good fly fishing in the area. Prefer areas that are around 1 to 2 hrs drive. No more. — Dasu Baregala 123 E 8th St Moscow ID 83843-3009 (208) 883 – 9538

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Moving to Detroit in a Week or so. Can you recommend me some good fly fishing in the area. Prefer areas that are around 1 to 2 hrs drive. No

more. As far as I know there are no quality fly fihing areas within 1-2 hrs of Detroit. 3 hours will take you to the Au Sable and Manistee rivers which are quality fisheries. There is a very good book on fishing in Michigan. I think the author is Linnsman. I will get more specific info to you. Steve Rosenblum, Ann Arbor Steve Rosenblum Ann Arbor, Michigan

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