Question:

It was good to meet you and great to fish with you. Hope you continue to post. Next year maybe a Colorado/New Mexico Clave? Willi

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Next year maybe a Colorado/New Mexico Clave? Willi

Now that that cat is out of the bag, I’ll tell you that I’ve started a list of potential locations for a CO/NM western clave 2001. A friend in the office showed me some pictures today, and after some coaxing i got the locations from him….  beautiful cutthroats…. lots of other nearby fishing….. WESTERN CLAVE 2001  in a secret town somewhere in southern colorado. bruiser Before you buy.

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Education & employment: Went to college in Lubbock, Tx at Texas Tech University.  Received a BBA in MIS/Finance and MBA with a concentration in MIS.  

Welcome to another Red Raider. As far as I know we are the only two on ROFF. Big Dale, Class of ‘77

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colorado. bruiser

Count me in. Any excuse to get to the mountains in the summertime. Big Dale

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Count me in!!! But whats this "next year" stuff?? Ain’t there fishin yet to be done this year, or do you suppose there’s so many claves going already there might be conflicts? (Conflicts??? on ROFF??? Tell me ain’t so !!!) Danl – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Next year maybe a Colorado/New Mexico Clave? Willi Now that that cat is out of the bag, I’ll tell you that I’ve started a list of potential locations for a CO/NM western clave 2001. A friend in the office showed me some pictures today, and after some coaxing i got the locations from him….  beautiful cutthroats…. lots of other nearby fishing….. WESTERN CLAVE 2001  in a secret town somewhere in southern colorado. bruiser Before you buy.

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With Big Dale and Dan’l, it’s a CLAVE already. We want time to plan, and time for everyone to restock their travel $ and hall passes.  Probably July 2001. Big Dale, we all missed you at the W Clave, although we know you’d have liked to go. We’ll get Jon Cook and Kelly roped into it also i’m sure.  Correct me if i’m wrong, jon, but it seems like you know your way around NM and CO pretty well. Before you buy.

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BIO name:  Kelly Rogers but I answer to a lot of things, depending upon the who’s yellin’ at me

<snipped a damn impressive BIO ’bout damn time there Kelly! <g  Enjoyed reading your 3 part post and look forward to reading mroe from you.  I was beginning to think you were going to wuss out. So did you do any fishin’ after the clave?  Feel free to email me the secret locations. I never did get a chance to stop in there and check on that girly, but I am planning on going for a weekend very soon and will no doubt have some free time. — Warren Findley Member of the Clavemeister Club Before you buy.

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rivers. Big Dale All we need is a clavemeister, Big Dale. I know at least one guy will show up.

It won’t be me. I have spent my whole life trying to stay out of west Texas and the decade I spent there was the worst flyfishing in my life. Big Dale

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I’m also thinking of a trip to southern Colorado/northern New Mexico sometime this September to check out some possible areas. Anyone interested in getting together?

   I’m up for that Willi, let’s synchonize our daytimers.    I’d been giving some thought to doing a clave in the North Park area, maybe even volunteering to be clavemeister. Wherever it is held, the bossman will need to be somebody with good knowledge of the local waters; me and Willi and probably a few others can find our way around North Park. Just an idea.

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   I’d been giving some thought to doing a clave in the North Park area, maybe even volunteering to be clavemeister. Wherever it is held, the bossman will need to be somebody with good knowledge of the local waters; me and Willi and probably a few others can find our way around North Park. Just an idea.

Dude, what about South Park?!?  Oh my god!  You killed Vern!  You bastard!!!! <g — Warren Findley Member of the Clavemeister Club Before you buy.

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It ain’t a hell of a lot of fun flyfishing in the land of dusty rivers. Big Dale

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It ain’t a hell of a lot of fun flyfishing in the land of dusty rivers. Big Dale All we need is a clavemeister, Big Dale. I know at least one guy will show up.

I don’t know.  Maybe a Vegas Clave with each member bringing a big roll of 20s.  Maybe Vern can give us some casting lessons and show us where the honey holes are <g — Warren Findley Member of the Clavemeister Club Before you buy.

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It ain’t a hell of a lot of fun flyfishing in the land of dusty rivers. Big Dale

All we need is a clavemeister, Big Dale. I know at least one guy will show up. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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I do have a question though.  What are the possiblities of having more than one Western Clave for 2001?  Maybe another in Montana, Idaho or Wyoming as well as the CO/NM clave.  Thoughts, ideas, suggestions anyone?

How about West Texas? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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(awesome plan clipped) WHAT HE SAID!!! bruiser Before you buy.

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Willi, September’s great i agree.  I’m into a remodeling job on a dump i just bought but maybe a day or two here and there… I am psyched now for next september. bruiser Before you buy.

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Willi, September’s great i agree.  I’m into a remodeling job on a dump i just bought but maybe a day or two here and there… I am psyched now for next september. bruiser

Bruiser, you know to just count me in.  How the hell could I say no after reading over half of this book in one night (p 104 of 142 btw)?!?! I do have a question though.  What are the possiblities of having more than one Western Clave for 2001?  Maybe another in Montana, Idaho or Wyoming as well as the CO/NM clave.  Thoughts, ideas, suggestions anyone? — Warren Findley Member of the Clavemeister Club Before you buy.

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I do have a question though.  What are the possiblities of having more than one Western Clave for 2001?  Maybe another in Montana, Idaho or Wyoming as well as the CO/NM clave.  Thoughts, ideas, suggestions anyone?

I like Willi’s idea for a September CO/NM ‘Clave. I’ve been mulling over the idea of a summer ‘Clave in the Park. If we got on it early enough we could rent cabins at Roosevelt and be a short drive from a wide variety of fishing. From the geezer accessible Lamar and Soda Butte to the real challenge of Hellroaring Creek and the canyon of the Yellowstone. Steve’s horses are welcome in the Park and of course there’s campgrounds for those that prefer to camp. Just a thought. — Ken Fortenberry

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I’m game if I can work out the time schedule. When do you have in mind? Danl

July 2001. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I vote for fall. Fishing is always good in September. Weather is usually great, tourists are gone etc. July fishing depends on snow pack and the tourists are out in force. I’m also thinking of a trip to southern Colorado/northern New Mexico sometime this September to check out some possible areas. Anyone interested in getting together? Willi

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restock their travel $ and hall passes.  Probably July 2001.

This sounds good, but a little naive. I don’t see my travel $ ever being restocked what with some talking of a meeting in The Big Easy ( I always spend WAY TOO MUCH in the big easy). I have never fishing in Penn and have always wanted to see a game in Happy Valley. I have always enjoyed fishing Northern New Mexico and Colorado. One area I go to as often as I can is around Gunnison, cause it has lots of different types of water. I happen to enjoy those little brookies and cutthroats in the high mountain meadows…they are small but the area is beautiful. The more I think about it I am tempted to load the truck and leave right now. Big Dale.

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With Big Dale and Dan’l, it’s a CLAVE already. We want time to plan, and time for everyone to restock their travel $ and hall passes.  Probably July 2001.

I vote for fall. Fishing is always good in September. Weather is usually great, tourists are gone etc. July fishing depends on snow pack and the tourists are out in force. Big Dale, we all missed you at the W Clave, although we know you’d have liked to go. We’ll get Jon Cook and Kelly roped into it also i’m sure.  Correct me if i’m wrong, jon, but it seems like you know your way around NM and CO pretty well.

I’m also thinking of a trip to southern Colorado/northern New Mexico sometime this September to check out some possible areas. Anyone interested in getting together? Willi

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BIO name:  Kelly Rogers but I answer to a lot of things, depending upon the who’s yellin’ at me vitals: 6′4", as recent as a couple of months ago 226 lbs but currently hoverin’ around 208 lbs. (who says lite beer diet doesn’t work) , 35 yrs old the early years:  Born in Irving, TX but moved to Big Spring, TX in 1972 when my Grand Pa  past away.  Moved there to take over the family cotton farm along with a small time (and I do mean small time, 25-30 head) cattle operation that was thrown in for good measure.  Had a great up bringing of hard work on the farm, chasing gals in the big city of Big Spring, and drinking beer (not necessarily in that order). Education & employment: Went to college in Lubbock, Tx at Texas Tech University.  Received a BBA in MIS/Finance and MBA with a concentration in MIS.  Went to work at Sandia National Labs in 1992 and currently still employed there which is my first and only job outside of the farm. marital stats:  Married 10 years in June but that will probably be done in about a month. fishin’ stats:  Started fishing early on mostly on lakes and stock ponds around the house.  Not much to choose from in west Texas.  In 1992, a co-worker introduced me to flyfishing and have looked back since. Other interest: bird hunting and up until 1992-93, competitive trapshooting. Started shooting in 1979 through 4-H.  Shot skeet for about 1 1/2 years before a friend invited me over to the trap range one Saturday.  Shot three rounds that day and the friend told my Dad that if he didn’t take me to San Angelo the next day to shoot in the Zone II shoot that he would.  Dad took me that next day where I won runner up in the handicap championship.  Used the prize money to buy my own BT-99 and finished out that year shooting only singles and handicap.  The next year I started shooting doubles in order to try and make the All-American team.  Made the junior team that year and the next.  After the second year on the team, the ATA sent me to the US Nationals for Olympic style shooting where I won the US Nationals. Over the next 3 years, I won the Nationals one more time and 3rd twice.  As a junior, I shot in two World Championships in 1983 (Canada) and 1985 (Italy).  Won 2nd in ‘83 and 4th in ‘85.  I quit Olympic style after ‘85 and went back to shooting ATA.  Shot for the next 6 years with my best year coming in the 91′ season where I ended up high-overall and doubles (at the time, my average was 8th highest on record but they’ve since kicked the livin’ snot outta that) average leader for the year.  Over the years, I shot a Browning BT-99, Gamba combo, Perazzi, Beretta (they made a matched set of combo’s for me when I was there in 85), and finally a Kreighoff K-80 from ‘89 on.  In ‘93, I was hitting pretty hard on the burnout factor when I suffered a 2.5-degree separation of my right shoulder playing softball.  Combine those two things with my new love of flyfishing, I decided to hang’em up.  I’m also an avid hacker, and I do mean hacker, of the golf ball. Jeez, pretty simple life I guess but that’s about it. Kelly

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Question:

central PA. Third week of July. Need guide and/or boat rental info,

http://www.billsguideservice.com/ RichZ

Question:

Reminds me of another local "snack" I came across a few years back touring the Canadian Maritimes.   It was basically (as I understand it) seaweed harvested off rocks at low tide & dried.   It smelled like low tide.   It was salty and strangely tasty though.   The name escapes me. Joe F.

        i aint gonna do it.  i thought about it, but i aint gonna do it. wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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i aint gonna do it.  i thought about it, but i aint gonna do it.

LOL.   Best laugh I’ve had from someone *not* telling a joke. Upon reading my inadvertant straight line, I must commend your admirable restraint. Joe F.

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Me to, but licketysplit I just got hold of myself and stopped. Dave

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Joe It’s called Dulse and my impression is that it is sold more to tourists than locals! I was on Grand Manan island last summer (Canada, just N of Maine)and they claim to be the Dulse capital of the world (I get the distinct impression that it is a very small world!). In my home country of Wales we eat Laverbread which is basically a sea lettuce sort of seaweed that is normally pan fried with bacon. I love it, but my English wife hates it.  OTH we both find Dulse a bit dry, salty and strong, but with a beer – now you’re talking! David – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – guess it’s like smoked oysters, either you like em or you don’t! Reminds me of another local "snack" I came across a few years back touring the Canadian Maritimes.   It was basically (as I understand it) seaweed harvested off rocks at low tide & dried.   It smelled like low tide.   It was salty and strangely tasty though.   The name escapes me. Joe F.

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Joe,    You reminded me of a time when I was taking my mother to dinner at Fisherman’s Wharf.  We had just gotten off the cable car and were walking down to the restaurant when we got a whiff of the bay.  Mom said "Whew, smells like the ocean" then paused and in a quieter tone said, "farted".  I almost rolled the rest of the way down the hill. Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Reminds me of another local "snack" I came across a few years back touring the Canadian Maritimes.   It was basically (as I understand it) seaweed harvested off rocks at low tide & dried.   It smelled like low tide.   It was salty and strangely tasty though.   The name escapes me. Joe F.

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…it is a very small world!

Easy for you to say Davie, you never had to paint it! Wolfgang <who couldn’t care less about context under the circumstances

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… A well stocked icebox full of white fleshed California peaches, oversized Concord grapes and plenty of squid jerky kept me happy in spite of the slow fishing.

Squid jerky ? Sounds fascinating, please expound. — Ken Fortenberry Illini 1 – Tar Heels 0

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Nice report Mu.  I’m starting to think that unless we get some rain here in Michigan, we aren’t going to have any water left in our streams. Glad you could make the most of it while out there!  Did you say squied jerkey?? Jeff Boks Fly Fishing~~~~~Just Do It

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Thursday morning I left home around 5AM to catch a plane to Los Angeles. Besides a quick lunch in the city, that was the last time I would set foot in LA until my return to the airport this morning.  Most of the extended Labor Day vacation was spent in Ventura and Santa Barbara counties which lie northwest of Los Angeles. First off, the food was amazing. Quality, variety and freshness which is completely unavailable where I live (it also didn’t hurt that my hosts were magicians in the kitchen who could whip up gourmet meals upn a whim).   Went up to Lake Cachuma and rented a little motorboat.  This is stocked trout lake with plenty of bass and panfish.  I didn’t expect any trout since it’s still technically summer.  The water was very choppy and all had I brought with me was 4 wt travel rod which was rendered completely useless by the constant gusting wind.  I put the rod away and became a full time boatsman at the mercy of the whims of a four year old niece. Next day was spent searching the Los Padres National Forest for fishable water.  My friend told me that many streams in this part of California typically have little or no flow by the time July rolls around. Nevertheless, a good map, a lovely lady and a well muscled vehicle were sufficient incentive to explore quite a bit of the nearby highlands.  I did find one stream that had enough flowing water to hold fish.  We bounced around from boulder to boulder and scaled craggy rocks to safely negotiate the hike along and through the creek.  It was more of a hiking trip with a few incidental pokes of my leader into some of the likely looking holes.  I only had three solid strikes and landed one plump rainbow trout on a prince nymph out of the deepest hole.   The last day was spent surf casting with "bloodworms" for ocean perch near Vandenberg Air Force base.  My girlfriend’s dad told me these were his secret baits that a supplier flies in daily from the east coast.  They weren’t the bloodworms I was used to from childhood flounder trips on the Long Island Sound, the ones with the big black pincers that come out of the sphincter on one end when you squeezed them.  These were what we used to call sandworms.  I caught one surf perch on a worm and later caught one on a sand flea that had accidentally impaled itself on my hook as my rig was tumbling in the waves.  Neither fish were worth keeping for the grill so I let them go.  The old fella caught nothing but at least he wasn’t doubled over in sea-sickened vomit position like the last time we went fishing together.  A well stocked icebox full of white fleshed California peaches, oversized Concord grapes and plenty of squid jerky kept me happy in spite of the slow fishing.  On the way home we stopped at the Channel Islands Harbor in a port town called Oxnard for some fresh dungeness crab, no utensils necessary. This wasn’t a hard core fishing weekend but a tour of some of the hills and beaches of the central California coast.  All streams, beaches, roads, turnouts, restaurants and vineyards were carefully logged in my mind for the inevitable return visit. Mu

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Question:

Sounds like you need a chill pill.If you don’t want to read it don’t click on it. Sometimes I see some new or even good Things that has been posted by Manufacters or Tackle shops.I don’t guess it was you that posted the following.      FLY FISHIN’ LURE FOR SALE! Newsgroups:   rec.outdoors.fishing [More Headers] [Subscribe to rec.outdoors.fishing]<Picture make offer. never been used. nothin’ wrong with it. refunds available email me you adress if you interested ill deal with you the amount your willing to pay danyrat  TRYING TO SELL SOMETHING  IN THE NEWS GROUP ARE YOU!!!   GEEZE GET A LIFE <’(((<  Work is for people that don’t like to fish <’(((<

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DITTO!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sounds like you need a chill pill.If you don’t want to read it don’t click on it. Sometimes I see some new or even good Things that has been posted by Manufacters or Tackle shops.I don’t guess it was you that posted the following.      FLY FISHIN’ LURE FOR SALE! Newsgroups:   rec.outdoors.fishing [More Headers] [Subscribe to rec.outdoors.fishing]<Picture make offer. never been used. nothin’ wrong with it. refunds available email me you adress if you interested ill deal with you the amount your willing to pay danyrat  TRYING TO SELL SOMETHING  IN THE NEWS GROUP ARE YOU!!!   GEEZE GET A LIFE <’(((<  Work is for people that don’t like to fish <’(((<

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I don’t know about Danyrat, but some of the best vendors I’ve found have come from the newsgroups. The lure manufacturers who do sales over the Internet make stuff about 999% better than the mass market junk. Matthew Carter "Fishing with Matt" http://www.albany.net/~buzzbait/fishing/index.htm

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Thanks Buzzbait, I guess its us little folk that really keep things going. After all if it weren’t for us ,where would those big companies come from.Hell everything starts out as an idea. Oh yea while yer at it, how bout stoppin by The RodCrafters Journal. Wer’e small and trying to grow. http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Gorge/2865 The RodMaker

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Question:

Greetings, Wow, I’ve been monitoring this newsgroup for a couple of weeks and never knew how many of my fellow flyfishers were on the net.  I’ve been a computer professional for most of my adult life, but never though much about computers and flyfishing until recently.  Well, anyway, here’s my question. 1) Are there any members of this group who are interested in FFing West Virginia?  If so, I have info, etc. 2) Are there any members who live or fish WV regularly that might like to provide info about WV FFing to fellow members of this newsgroup? 3) Is there interest in seeing a West Virginia FFing Web Page?  I have the technical skills to put it up(at my cost-this is no solicitation!), but before going to the trouble, would like to try to gauge interest. 4)  Is anyone aware of any other pages, etc. that deal with West Virginia fishing.  I have spent a lot of time on Yahoo, et al with no results. 5)  If anyone has info on guides & lodging in WV, I would also be interested in that. Thanks, Keith Comstock

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2) Are there any members who live or fish WV regularly that might like to provide info about WV FFing to fellow members of this newsgroup? 3) Is there interest in seeing a West Virginia FFing Web Page?  I have the technical skills to put it up(at my cost-this is no solicitation!), but before going to the trouble, would like to try to gauge interest.

Hi Keith, I live in Montana and still would be interested in a WV Web Page. Keep us posted on your progress. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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Does anyone know the web address for the West Virginia Trout Unlimited page? Thanks in advance for any help

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The address for the West Virginia Council of Trout Unlimited and our fantastically good web page (for a non-profit) is: http://members.aol.com/WVTU/wvtu.html I hope this helps. PS- I am the currrent pres of the Cherrry River Chapter.  We’ve been bad and don’t have our own page yet. Keith Comstock Cranberry Wilderness Outfitters web – http://www.wvoutfitters.com

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I think you can  get the WVTU link from the TU homepage.   John W. Kramer                           Clearwater Outfitters                   WE ENDORSE CATCH AND RELEASE (717) 938-3423

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Question:

        I recently posted an ad for some Orvis gear I have for sale. In the ad, I  blasted some of the company’s corporate people…pretty strongly, I guess,  judging from the response….         In retrospect, I realize that my feelings towards them probably should not  have been posted in a public, albeit small, forum. I believe, therefore, that  I should make the following apologies…..         1. To the members of the group…I apologize.         2. To those few (damn few) at the company who were upfront…I apologize.         3. Finally, to M_ _ _ at Orvis, who apparently took exception to my reference  of "ratdick corporate suckups". So much so, in fact, that he took time out  from his busy schedule (of signing up guides who use live bait on their ‘fly  poles’), to call me at home and threaten to ‘kick my ass’ the next time he is  in Louisiana. My sincerest apologies to rats everywhere for any feelings of  inadequacy my comparison may have caused. Trust me, fellas, you got nothing to  worry about….. By the way, thanks to all of you who wrote expressing support and similar  stories…. Calm Seas…. Capt. Briant Smith

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CaptBriant has a point.  Look what’s happening to our sport.  Before the MOVIE came out, the industry was looking for talented people, preferably college graduates, who could proficiently instruct persons in the art of fly fishing.  Folks like CaptBriant were considered the next Lefty Kreh. Along comes the MOVIE, and just about every joker who thinks he can fly cast goes out soliciting to make a name for himself.  Suddenly, the companies get this great idea: rather than deal with intellectuals like CaptBriant who think independently and want us to compensate THEM – let’s take a bunch of these baitchunking, fly fish "wannabes" put logos on their shirts like BASS pros, and have them compensate us in some form or fashion.  Or better yet, make them do as we command!   Problem is that a lot of these yahoos could care less about the aesthetics of our sport, the art, the literature, the need for conservation, the importance of passing ideals and morals that we learn from fishing on to our young people.  As a result, the "art" of fly fishing has become almost all sport. Granted there are still more good guides and instructors under these programs than bad ones, but I’m concerned.   More and more, I find myself having to reteach some of my students out of the bad habits and incorrect methods they learn from such yahoos. Go on, CaptBriant, and preach the word.  The multitudes hear your voice and it speaks the truth!

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – CaptBriant has a point.  Look what’s happening to our sport.  Before the MOVIE came out, the industry was looking for talented people, preferably college graduates, who could proficiently instruct persons in the art of fly fishing.  Folks like CaptBriant were considered the next Lefty Kreh. Along comes the MOVIE, and just about every joker who thinks he can fly cast goes out soliciting to make a name for himself.  Suddenly, the companies get this great idea: rather than deal with intellectuals like CaptBriant who think independently and want us to compensate THEM – let’s take a bunch of these baitchunking, fly fish "wannabes" put logos on their shirts like BASS pros, and have them compensate us in some form or fashion.  Or better yet, make them do as we command! Problem is that a lot of these yahoos could care less about the aesthetics of our sport, the art, the literature, the need for conservation, the importance of passing ideals and morals that we learn from fishing on to our young people.  As a result, the "art" of fly fishing has become almost all sport. Granted there are still more good guides and instructors under these programs than bad ones, but I’m concerned.   More and more, I find myself having to reteach some of my students out of the bad habits and incorrect methods they learn from such yahoos. Go on, CaptBriant, and preach the word.  The multitudes hear your voice and it speaks the truth!

  Good post. I agree completely. Willi

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What MOVIE are we talking about??  If you’re talking about A River Runs Trough it, I agree and disagree.  You made some good points in this post.  However, so what if a beautiful movie comes along and glorifies our sport, and gets more people into flyfishing (for a little while anyhow).  While you may think it’s a bummer to see more people fishing your favorite pools and runs, I think it’s great that some medium has influenced people to get outdoors, have fun, and respect the planet. It’s like saying, "damn that man on the moon airing!! Now every Tom, Dick, and Harry wants to be an astronaut and study more in science class!"  Just my two cents. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – CaptBriant has a point.  Look what’s happening to our sport.  Before the MOVIE came out, the industry was looking for talented people, preferably college graduates, who could proficiently instruct persons in the art of fly fishing.  Folks like CaptBriant were considered the next Lefty Kreh. Along comes the MOVIE, and just about every joker who thinks he can fly cast goes out soliciting to make a name for himself.  Suddenly, the companies get this great idea: rather than deal with intellectuals like CaptBriant who think independently and want us to compensate THEM – let’s take a bunch of these baitchunking, fly fish "wannabes" put logos on their shirts like BASS pros, and have them compensate us in some form or fashion.  Or better yet, make them do as we command! Problem is that a lot of these yahoos could care less about the aesthetics of our sport, the art, the literature, the need for conservation, the importance of passing ideals and morals that we learn from fishing on to our young people.  As a result, the "art" of fly fishing has become almost all sport. Granted there are still more good guides and instructors under these programs than bad ones, but I’m concerned.   More and more, I find myself having to reteach some of my students out of the bad habits and incorrect methods they learn from such yahoos. Go on, CaptBriant, and preach the word.  The multitudes hear your voice and it speaks the truth!

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Question:

Horrocks-Ibbotson was one of the most prolific rod makers, making rods at a variety of quality levels and price points. I’m not familiar with the Thunderbird model, but if you can describe the inscriptions, decals, wraps, reel seat, etc in detail, I might be able to give you some more information. — Best regards, Dave Visit Dave Teffeteller’s Fly Fishing Guides Home Page http://www.olfart.com

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Hello all ,  I am relatively new to fly fishing and fly tying . Maybe someone can help . I recently picked up a fly rod at a yard sale and I’m looking for help identifying it or the builders . It’s about 6 1/2 ft and looks handmade . On the rod it has written , chrome plated stainless steel guides. It says thermo weld process and then the name Thunderbird with a picture of it looks like an indian or aztec bird.Just above the grip it says tournement taper, rigid butt-sensitive tip . Then it has what I assume to be the co. that built it – looks like Harrocks-Ibberson Co.utica NY made in USA and under that the #1464XL . All this writing looks to be done by hand .If anyone can help me track down the company that made it or give me any information at all ,  I would be grateful . Thanks

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Question:

Someone posted a really nice list of web sites for flyfishing within the last week, but I inadvertantly deleted it.  Could you be so kind as to re-post it?

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Try http://www.eaglenet.com/PaxP/mstrs/fishing.html

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Question:

I’m new to the Newsgroup and there must be a story here. Who is Tim Walker?

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I have no idea who Tim Walker is, but I thought he was kinda funny. .02

: A pest. He dominated this newsgroup with rhetoric and opinions, all : designed to induce argument. He is one of only a few people on this : newsgroup that are not polite. He says he’s gone. Let’s hope. : John Nesselrode : Shawnee, KS — Burnaby, BC

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A pest. He dominated this newsgroup with rhetoric and opinions, all designed to induce argument. He is one of only a few people on this newsgroup that are not polite. He says he’s gone. Let’s hope. John Nesselrode Shawnee, KS

Just what are newsgroups supposed to be all about? It would seem that thought provoking dialogs should be they are all about. I for one could stand a fewer ads for alarm clocks and more of Tim’s opinions that make me stop and think a little. I admit that I came into this newsgroup in the middle of the Tim Walker era but what was "not polite" about his posts? Seemed to me that he was simply trying to sort some things out regarding our sport.  The fact that he generated such confrontational and heated responses would indicate he struck some raw nerves. He was only a pest if you let him get under your skin. If we don’t have people presenting us with difficult topics to think about then this newsgroup won’t be worth stopping at.

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I’m new to the Newsgroup and there must be a story here. Who is Tim Walker?

Well,I’ve been watching this group for a couple of years.First thing I saw was Tim Walker enjoying for creation of this group.Ever since I’ve been enjoying his postings -not that i agreed everything he claimed- because his capability of making us see things from another view.If you’re a C&R fanatic and don’t think flyfishing is basically about killing fish,you could’ve found him irritating and offending (wouldn’t have been the first one…),but now he’s been gone(i hope not for permanently) me for sure i feel this group has lost something vital, some sort of counterforce to all this commercial,forgetting-the-real-thing flyfishing that has been coming so popular these days.All right,I’ve never fished in U.S. and do not know very much about your conditions,but if it’s anything like here in Finland,i think our sport is going to be something else what it used to be.Even C&R can not make it what it used to be,and maybe we should forget all those beautiful imag es that the film "the river runs through it" painted for us.We have to accept us being a part of flyfishing industry, sponsored by hi-tech manufacturers. Sorry I didn’t answer your question precisely,but was merely sharing my feelings. As a famous finnish author (J.Aho) once wrote some 80 years ago: "first time the trout took my fly,I knew it was me hooked,not the fish." I wish I could have been fishing with him. And answerig your questions,i sure kill my fish.Last summer i killed two trouts (both about 16 inches) and some arctic graylings (about same size). And no sign of guilty.         no matter how you’re fishing,tight lines.                 -Pekka-

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A pest. He dominated this newsgroup with rhetoric and opinions, all designed to induce argument. He is one of only a few people on this newsgroup that are not polite. He says he’s gone. Let’s hope. John Nesselrode Shawnee, KS Just what are newsgroups supposed to be all about? It would seem that thought provoking dialogs should be they are all about. I for one could stand a fewer ads for alarm clocks and more of Tim’s opinions that make me stop and think a little.

Tim’s postings were often very poorly thought out.  He had a habit of ignoring points that showed where he had contradicted himself while while trumpeting irrelevant non sequiturs.  He had some good points, but you had to wade through a lot of chaff to get to the good stuff. I admit that I came into this newsgroup in the middle of the Tim Walker era but what was "not polite" about his posts? Seemed to me that he was simply trying to sort some things out regarding our sport.  The fact that he generated such confrontational and heated responses would indicate he struck some raw nerves. He was only a pest if you let him get under your skin.

Tim accused fisherfolk in general, and C&Rers in particular, of being cruel and disrespectful of fish.  This is a serious charge, and it is difficult to make it without being impolite.  Tim was not always up to the challenge. I sometimes found Tim tiresome because he often seemed to be more interested in heat than in light.  It is not enough to start an argument. If a discussion is to be satisfying, then there should be a considered, reasoned exchange.  Tim frequently sidestepped perceptive replies, apparently preferring to inflame when he should have ceded a point and thanked the other poster for their insight. If we don’t have people presenting us with difficult topics to think about then this newsgroup won’t be worth stopping at.

Tim is not a bad person, and he certainly did make a contribution, but sometimes he was also a pest.   — Keep your stick on the ice.

Response:

Be thankful that he is gone. Yippi tie one on! AuSable1  

Response:

I have tied 6 Elk Hair Caddis size 14 from one Hoffman saddle hackle. In fact, that is about average for the longer hackles. Of course, I usually palmer the hackle rather heavily.

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Rick Fletcher in a recent post said Newsgroups were created to promote honest discussion and argument; keep in mind networks were created mainly by academics and scientists and arguing is how we spend a good amount of our time.  If you don’t want to argue, fine, don’t join in.  But don’t complain because it happens.   Learn to use a kill file or a capable newsreader.  

One of the things that one likes to see is reasoned, open minded discussion.  Tim often did not provide this.  He often sidestepped relevant points.  Instead, he would counter by starting a new, unrelated, and irrelevant line of argument.  A string of non sequiturs is not an enlightening discussion.  Unfortunately, Tim did not flag his dopey posts, so we had to wade through a lot of nonsense to get to the interesting bits. In other words, I objected to many of Tim’s posts for the same reason that other people are incensed by ads; they waste my time by filling up bandwidth with undodgeable drivel.  Some of Tim’s stuff was good, but so much of it was nonsense.  It does not matter that Tim was here in the good old days when there were few people who had to suffer through his bad posts.  The fact is, regardless of Tim’s history or credentials, he posted a lot of time wasting nonsense.  That is pesty, no matter who does it. — Keep your stick on the ice.

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Tim Walker sends me email – and he fishes for trout sometimes.  That makes him OK with me. Oliver Inverness-shire;  Scotland "Lead me not into temptation – I can do it myself"

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What is HUAC, BTW? — Jim Powlesland                  | OFFICE:  403-220-7937 University Computing Services   | MESSAGE: 403-220-6201 University of Calgary           | FAX:     403-282-9199 Calgary, Alberta CANADA T2N 1N4 | URL: http://www.ucalgary.

ca/~powlesla/ HUAC=House Unamerican Activities Committee, a lovely little group set up during the McCarth era (not Gene) to investigate commie pinko radical and maybe even in the current time frame environmental types.  As a Canadian, you weren’t blessed with such a fine use of governmental resources.  The fact that Pavlov could even reference it (HUAC) means that he is either an historian or an old fart like me. Mike in PDX      "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                                                Tom McGuane

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OBroff: We have had massive flooding throughout Northern Idaho.  Can anyone comment on how we should expect this to affect the fishing come spring? — Rick

Don’t expect the sandbars to be where you left them last season! :^) Charley

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : A pest. He dominated this newsgroup with rhetoric and opinions, all : designed to induce argument. He is one of only a few people on this : newsgroup that are not polite. He says he’s gone. Let’s hope. (snip) Newsgroups have mellowed considerably over the past year and a half…a lot of current readers don’t seem to be comfortable with intellectual challenge.  Before the "discovery" of the net by the general public, that is what the newsgroups were all about, so don’t be offended because it continues.  This is not a polite and cordial backyard barbecue. (snip) — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Mr. Fletcher, I get the feeling that when you say: "Before the discovery of the net

by the ge neral public", you mean the general public is anyone without "edu" in their addr ess. Are you one of the dreaded elitist? Regards, Cedro Wooley Hear, hear!  Touche’, Mr. Wooley.  Stick around, please. Ed Hunsaker

–     It is obvious that the two of you (maybe others) do not know Mr. Fletcher or Mr.Walker.  I’m sure you don’t. I do. No, not personally. I have been reading there posts for years now.  In fact, I have even written directly to  them for info and advice.     You have missed Mr. Fletcher’s point.  Actually, there is really no possible way for you to get it. You see, Mr. Fletcher has been on this board for years.  In fact, I’m sure I’ve seen him on alt. fishing .fly when that was being read.  To help make his point, let me inform you of this.  As little as two years ago there were very few people on the net.  In fact, there was a list of the users of rec. flyfishing.  It was only a couple pages long.  It hasn’t been too difficult to notice the changes that have taken place on this board. Was it better two years ago? Probably yes. No, there weren’t as many people or potential resources on the net but , it was much more personal and in depth.  There weren’t any mundane discussions about wader odor, proper hat color,or the Orvis wonder wagon.  That’s not to say there weren’t heated discussions.  Tim started his share of them then, too.     You see, it’s like comparing the country to cities.  The more people you have in one area, the more assholes there are likely to be.  Well, there are more and more people using the net.  Fortunately,there are alot of great new people on it. Unfortunately, there are alot of new assholes as well. It just so happens that most of these people (both kinds) are coming from aol., prodigy, etc.. And, access to the internet     Here’s to the new communications bill!     Jason         By the way, yes, my adress ends in edu.  However, I am a nymph fisherman.                                               Hardly an elitist venture.

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: Newsgroups have mellowed considerably over the past year and a half…a : lot of current readers don’t seem to be comfortable with intellectual : challenge.  Before the "discovery" of the net by the general public, : that is what the newsgroups were all about, so don’t be offended because : it continues.  This is not a polite and cordial backyard barbecue. : I get the feeling that when you say: "Before the discovery of the net : by the general public", you mean the general public is anyone without   : "edu" in their address. Are you one of the dreaded elitist? One doesn’t need to be using an .edu machine in order to access the newsreader on that machine.  Perhaps I prefer the newsreader on my .edu account.  Some providers claim it is impossible, but there is this thing called telnet. How would you prefer I describe the growth in use of Usenet?  Prior to 2 years ago, the number of folks with access was limited…now it is less so.  I don’t mean to offend, but I’m at a loss for another way to mention the change. For example, I teach a class for tuition paying students one semester, then I offer it to the general public during summer.  Does this indicate elitism?  Or the opposite… I did engage in an ugly personal attack against one reader who called a friend a pest.  I think it is a big stretch from that action to elitist. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : A pest. He dominated this newsgroup with rhetoric and opinions, all : designed to induce argument. He is one of only a few people on this : newsgroup that are not polite. He says he’s gone. Let’s hope. (snip) Newsgroups have mellowed considerably over the past year and a half…a lot of current readers don’t seem to be comfortable with intellectual challenge.  Before the "discovery" of the net by the general public, that is what the newsgroups were all about, so don’t be offended because it continues.  This is not a polite and cordial backyard barbecue. (snip) — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Mr. Fletcher, I get the feeling that when you say: "Before the discovery of the net by the general public", you mean the general public is anyone without "edu" in their address. Are you one of the dreaded elitist? Regards, Cedro Wooley

Hear, hear!  Touche’, Mr. Wooley.  Stick around, please. Ed Hunsaker —

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Jim, you didn’t perchance work for HUAC back in the 50’s and 60’s, did you ???

I think Jim picked up his technique (and accuracy) by studying McCarthyism. M

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OBffing: I just purchased another Hoffmann #2 and I’ve yet to tie "12 flys from one feather".  Is this folklore? — Rick

Rick,     Was it a neck or a saddle? :^) Charley

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Rick Fletcher writes: OBroff: We have had massive flooding throughout Northern Idaho.  Can anyone comment on how we should expect this to affect the fishing come spring?

I’d love to comment on this, Rick, but since I’m a pesky AOL user I doubt you would see any merit in my insights :^) I’m probably going to be checking out of this newsgroup pretty soon, myself. Too many advertisements; too many elitists. In this sense, rec.outdoors.fishing.fly has become a true mirror of the sport of flyfishing and everything that is ruining it. Besides, it’s too damn nice outside to be sitting in here! Happy trails, Steve

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: A pest. He dominated this newsgroup with rhetoric and opinions, all : designed to induce argument. He is one of only a few people on this : newsgroup that are not polite. He says he’s gone. Let’s hope.

(snip) Newsgroups have mellowed considerably over the past year and a half…a lot of current readers don’t seem to be comfortable with intellectual challenge.  Before the "discovery" of the net by the general public, that is what the newsgroups were all about, so don’t be offended because it continues.  This is not a polite and cordial backyard barbecue.

(snip) — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Mr. Fletcher, I get the feeling that when you say: "Before the discovery of the net by the general public", you mean the general public is anyone without "edu" in their address. Are you one of the dreaded elitist? Regards, Cedro Wooley <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

It is the nature of Man to conserve within himself traces of ancient hatreds and battles.                                          - BonFar

Question:

Will be in Utah this month or next (June). Seeking advice on best places near Orem. Also pointers to good guide books. Thanks!

Response:

Will be in Utah this month or next (June). Seeking advice on best places near Orem. Also pointers to good guide books. Thanks!

A couple of hours (maybe 3) south on I-15 is the town of Beaver.  Abt 10 miles (paved) west of town is Minersville Resovoir. It’s catch & release, last weekend we caught fis in the 18-21 inch range.  BTW, a busy day on the lake is maybe 15 people. Regards, KBC

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You will be 5 miles from the Provo River and if you are a serious Fly Fisherman you will be there.  Ask any fishing store, or sports store in orem for more info of the Provo. The other guy mentioned driving 3 hours to some lake down south??? If your willing to drive 3 Hours you can get to the Green River, and ask anybody online, the Green is simply the Best! Good Luck!

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I would opt for the Provo. Although be prepared for crowded conditions on the weekends. I would second the previous post, if your going to drive south 3 hours, play golf, if you want fish hit the Green River, I can almost guarentee you won’t be sorry.

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