Question:

You guys have to check out "The Bug" from the recent fly swap.  It looks like a red soft hackle indicator.  I can’t wait to fish it.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Unfortunately this does not work on "single fly only" waters ! Yes, but I’m thinking I might squeak through the loophole if I slip a hook into my strike indicator

Response:

Unfortunately this does not work on "single fly only" waters !

Yes, but I’m thinking I might squeak through the loophole if I slip a hook into my strike indicator

Response:

I have never used a bite indicator, nor have I used a dry fly for this purpose.  I do use Mucilin to make the leader float,  and use a Water knot appropriately. I have noticed these days on the local pond that BI’s are all the rage; virtually everyone uses one when fishing buzzers. I have also noticed (from watching a few people) that the BI seems to impede the long distance presentation of the fly:  is this the case? Is there any merit with the BI over the tin of Mucilin (apart from the extreme visibility of the BI)?

Response:

I have never used a bite indicator, nor have I used a dry fly for this purpose.  I do use Mucilin to make the leader float,  and use a Water knot appropriately.

Okay mate, I don’t care what you call them over there but they are called strike indicators.  SI instead of BI.  You can understand the implications of that I hope <g I have noticed these days on the local pond that BI’s are all the rage; virtually everyone uses one when fishing buzzers.

Probably because they work. I have also noticed (from watching a few people) that the BI seems to impede the long distance presentation of the fly:  is this the case?

Yes and no.  Once you become accustomed to them,  you will learn how to read them. Is there any merit with the BI over the tin of Mucilin (apart from the extreme visibility of the BI)?

Yes, it takes more to twitch them than it does with just a greased line.  If you are dragging the bottom this could help eliminate false indications.  Also, I find that they do not sink as often as the end of a fly line.  I fish with one more often than without when nymphing. The reason is simple, I do not like the big blob of material on the surface, but it does help in visibility, helps keep the fly or flies at a constant depth, is easy to change instead of changing the length of leader or tippet, and also is not as prone to being drug under the surface as a fly line. There is my analysis and is only my personal opinion.  Some people would rather be burned at the stake than use a strike indicator (KEN F!) <g — Warren Findley Can the Spam! Send Muskie complaints to:

Response:

0] : I have never used a bite indicator, nor have I used a dry fly for : this : purpose.  I do use Mucilin to make the leader float,  and use a : Water knot : appropriately. : Okay mate, I don’t care what you call them over there but they are : called strike indicators.  SI instead of BI.  You can understand the : implications of that I hope <g : I have noticed these days on the local pond that BI’s are all the : rage; : virtually everyone uses one when fishing buzzers. : Probably because they work. : I have also noticed (from watching a few people) that the BI seems : to impede : the long distance presentation of the fly:  is this the case? : Yes and no.  Once you become accustomed to them,  you will learn how : to read them. : Is there any merit with the BI over the tin of Mucilin (apart from : the : extreme visibility of the BI)? : Yes, it takes more to twitch them than it does with just a greased : line.  If you are dragging the bottom this could help eliminate false : indications.  Also, I find that they do not sink as often as the end : of a fly line.  I fish with one more often than without when nymphing. : The reason is simple, I do not like the big blob of material on the : surface, but it does help in visibility, helps keep the fly or flies : at a constant depth, is easy to change instead of changing the length : of leader or tippet, and also is not as prone to being drug under the : surface as a fly line. : There is my analysis and is only my personal opinion.  Some people : would rather be burned at the stake than use a strike indicator (KEN : F!) <g : — : Warren Findley : Can the Spam! : Send Muskie complaints to: If your have the hook, the fake bait and the indicator all in one package it’s called a dry fly, and it’s just dandy, but if you consider separating any of these elements, some people seem to get pretty upset. Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories  (remove x’s from email if not      Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971   a spammer) Phone: (650)-857-5491              

Response:

bobbers. Start insulting strike indicators and I will change the subject to smelly old waders . . . .;-) Warren

hell, that’s something i know nothing about.    d;^) –walt

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–waldo

At last someone is calling them what they are. Thanks Waldo!!! Big Dale

Response:

Start insulting strike indicators and I will change the subject to smelly old waders . . . .;-) hell, that’s something i know nothing about.    d;^)

I thought not <g Warren

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bobbers.

Start insulting strike indicators and I will change the subject to smelly old waders . . . .;-) Warren

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Unfortunately this does not work on "single fly only" waters ! TL MC – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – He didn’t ask about using a dry fly as an indicator is my defense <g I do love summer and fall because I use dries as the indicator.  If you need an indicator it might as well be something that can catch fish!  I just forget about this during the winter. . .

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He didn’t ask about using a dry fly as an indicator is my defense <g I do love summer and fall because I use dries as the indicator.  If you need an indicator it might as well be something that can catch fish!  I just forget about this during the winter. . . Thanks for picking up the slack. Warren

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nice to see there are more pragmatic people here. My thoughts _exactly_. Thanks, Herman <snip If your have the hook, the fake bait and the indicator all in one package it’s called a dry fly, and it’s just dandy, but if you consider separating any of these elements, some people seem to get pretty upset. Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories Rd.)  (remove x’s from email if not      Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971   a spammer) Phone: (650)-857-5491 — Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

I have never used a bite indicator, nor have I used a dry fly for this purpose.  I do use Mucilin to make the leader float,  and use a Water knot appropriately. Okay mate, I don’t care what you call them over there but they are called strike indicators.  SI instead of BI.  You can understand the implications of that I hope <g

bobbers. –waldo

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Nice to see there are more pragmatic people here. My thoughts _exactly_. Thanks, Herman

<snip If your have the hook, the fake bait and the indicator all in one package it’s called a dry fly, and it’s just dandy, but if you consider separating any of these elements, some people seem to get pretty upset. Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories  (remove x’s from email if not      Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971   a spammer) Phone: (650)-857-5491

–         Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Question:

(Finland is bigger than it looks on the map!!)

I certainly hope so! On my map it looks like it’s about two square inches. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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Anybody knows if there are any good flyfishing possibilities in Finland ? Robbie

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Finland is a great place to fish. Not been there (yet), but a good Finnish friend of mine keeps pushing me to visit him. So no first hand experience, but sure hope to be able to provide you with some! From what I gathered from his fishing stories there are very good possibilities to fish for trout, seatrout and salmon. If you need some more specific info, and know in what part of the country you’ll be staying (Finland is bigger than it looks on the map!!) I could inquire up north. Some links: http://gamma.nic.fi/~outdoor/ http://www.kotka.fi/~huusko/index2.html Anybody knows if there are any good flyfishing possibilities in Finland ? Robbie

–         Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

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Question:

One of the most valuable "how to" books on fly fishing I have had the pleasure of reading is "The Cast" by Ed Jaworski. He has recently published a new book, "Troubleshooting the Cast", a paper back book which addresses 32 common casting problems. The book is well written, and the diagrams are easy to follow and uncluttered. I got my copy in the mail this last week and have been using some of his techniques to work out some kinks on a pond here in Kansas, especially I problem I have casting weighted flies. I highly recomend those of you who might have a little casting kink check it out. Your friendly gear whore and singlemaltmeister. Wayne

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How much was it and where can I get it on-line? — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One of the most valuable "how to" books on fly fishing I have had the pleasure of reading is "The Cast" by Ed Jaworski. He has recently published a new book, "Troubleshooting the Cast", a paper back book which addresses 32 common casting problems. The book is well written, and the diagrams are easy to follow and uncluttered. I got my copy in the mail this last week and have been using some of his techniques to work out some kinks on a pond here in Kansas, especially I problem I have casting weighted flies. I highly recomend those of you who might have a little casting kink check it out. Your friendly gear whore and singlemaltmeister. Wayne

Before you buy.

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The back cover lists the price $12.95 and I bought mine at amazon.com Wayne

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How much was it and where can I get it on-line? — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html One of the most valuable "how to" books on fly fishing I have had the pleasure of reading is "The Cast" by Ed Jaworski. He has recently published a new book, "Troubleshooting the Cast", a paper back book which addresses 32 common casting problems. The book is well written, and the diagrams are easy to follow and uncluttered. I got my copy in the mail this last week and have been using some of his techniques to work out some kinks on a pond here in Kansas, especially I problem I have casting weighted flies. I highly recomend those of you who might have a little casting kink check it out. Your friendly gear whore and singlemaltmeister. Wayne Before you buy.

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The back cover lists the price $12.95 and I bought mine at amazon.com

I just ordered one from there. My wife hates ‘one click’ ordering<g. — Charlie…

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One of the most valuable "how to" books on fly fishing I have had the pleasure of reading is "The Cast" by Ed Jaworski.

Hey Walt, is this available at EZFlyfish? Joe F.

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One of the most valuable "how to" books on fly fishing I have had the pleasure of reading is "The Cast" by Ed Jaworski. Hey Walt, is this available at EZFlyfish? Joe F.

Hi Joe, It will be indirectly available later today if my damn isp will properly function. I’ve started a "collection" of recommended books available through brbg/ez in association with amazon. Here’s the link to main page: http://users.boone.net/wgw/brbg-3.html Here’s the link to where this title will be located (if I can make a successful upload): http://users.boone.net/wgw/brbg-gen-ff.html Walt

Response:

Question:

I’m leaning toward the Spring Creek because it’s a DT line, so you get two lines for price of one. Anyone here used a Spring Creek?

I have a Spring Creek in DT5. My only complaint is it has a lot of memory and so coils up worse than most. It’s relatively old though, ‘93 I think, so perhaps Orvis has improved that since then. — Ken Fortenberry

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Since I am in Kansas <g, the season is closed in WI, and just because I like you, email your snail address to me and I’ll ship you my 2 wt to try out, then you can ship it back to me.

Excellent ! Did you make it to Crane Creek last weekend ? You know, trip reports are mandatory in January. Thanks, Wayne. — Ken Fortenberry

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… SA still makes the Ultra 3 in a buckskin (like the one I sent you.)  Keep them in mind.

I assume it’s a 2wt, is it a WF or a DT ? I’ve never had it off the spool, I’ll have to give it a try. You are right about the long front taper not being appropriate for close in work. You know some of the places where I want to fish with the 2 & 3 wt and there’s rarely a time when you have more than 20′-25′ of line out. — Ken Fortenberry

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Anyone have experience with or observations about Sage Quiet Taper Fly Lines ?

My favorite rod/line combo is the Sage 484-3 SPL with the 4 wt. Quiet Taper line. With this combo I can cast all of the line easily, and indeed roll cast most of the line! I find it fishes in close well also. The other added advantage to this thinner line is a very quiet presentation, very important for places like Washington’s Rocky Ford creek or Wyoming’s Flat Creek where delicacy is a must. I think the main key is matching it with the rod you are fishing. The SPL series are medium action rods and these are the rods Sage designed the lines to match. Cheers, Ian McAllister Rodworks Seattle, WA Before you buy.

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I assume it’s a 2wt, is it a WF or a DT ? I’ve never had it off the spool, I’ll have to give it a try. You are right about the long front taper not being appropriate for close in work. You know some of the places where I want to fish with the 2 & 3 wt and there’s rarely a time when you have more than 20′-25′ of line out. — Ken Fortenberry

Ken It’s a DT-2-F Mastery Ultra 3 with something like a 7′ front taper. That’s the line I used routinely on that rod and it short casted just fine. Peter Peter email is spam blocked – remove first ’s’

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That’s the line I used routinely on that rod and it short casted just fine.

And a short cast for you is what, 100′<g. — Charlie…

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Anyone have experience with or observations about Sage Quiet Taper Fly Lines ? I currently have Cortland Clear Creeks on my 2 & 3 wts and I’m not real happy with them. It’s catalog season in the great white north and in perusing the catalogs these sound nice for close, delicate casting and they couldn’t possibly roll cast any worse than a Clear Creek. — Ken Fortenberry

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Anyone have experience with or observations about Sage Quiet Taper Fly Lines ? I currently have Cortland Clear Creeks on my 2 & 3 wts and I’m not real happy with them. It’s catalog season in the great white north and in perusing the catalogs these sound nice for close, delicate casting and they couldn’t possibly roll cast any worse than a Clear Creek. — Ken Fortenberry

Ken I don’t know about the Quiet Tapers but the Clear Creeks aren’t a close in type of line.  Did some checking a while back and the front taper is quite long.  SA still makes the Ultra 3 in a buckskin (like the one I sent you.)  Keep them in mind. Peter

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I like the Clear Creeks for the long thin front taper but also have some performance issues and wear issues with them.  In looking around, the two other lines I came up with that have a similar long, thin front taper are the Sage Quiet Taper and the Orvis Spring Creek. I’m leaning toward the Spring Creek because it’s a DT line, so you get two lines for price of one. Anyone here used a Spring Creek? PS I don’t think any conventional line with this type of front taper is going to be very good at roll casts. Their strength will be a delicate presentation with a sacrifice in casting performance. A silk line was recommended to me as probably the ideal for delicate presentation while still having good casting performance.  Since they float in a different manner than conventional lines, a silk line in an equal weight is much thinner than a conventional line. I’m hard on my equipment and know I would never do the maintance necessary with a silk line. Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone have experience with or observations about Sage Quiet Taper Fly Lines ? I currently have Cortland Clear Creeks on my 2 & 3 wts and I’m not real happy with them. It’s catalog season in the great white north and in perusing the catalogs these sound nice for close, delicate casting and they couldn’t possibly roll cast any worse than a Clear Creek. — Ken Fortenberry

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writes: Anyone have experience with or observations about Sage Quiet Taper Fly Lines ?

It works as advertised with the Sage SPL rods. I get good distance and good presentation with mine. Since I am in Kansas <g, the season is closed in WI, and just because I like you, email your snail address to me and I’ll ship you my 2 wt to try out, then you can ship it back to me. Wayne Wayne Knight (remove nospam to respond via mail) Expert in the creation of  wind knots and tailing loops.

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The quiet taper lines are recommended for the SPL series as they were designed around the taper of that rod.  Also, the lines only come in weight forward,  Try a DT line. Regards, Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone have experience with or observations about Sage Quiet Taper Fly Lines ? I currently have Cortland Clear Creeks on my 2 & 3 wts and I’m not real happy with them. It’s catalog season in the great white north and in perusing the catalogs these sound nice for close, delicate casting and they couldn’t possibly roll cast any worse than a Clear Creek. — Ken Fortenberry

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oooooowowee, Ken, I guess Dave Whitlock had a lot to do with designing the Sage Quite Taper lines for the new ultra light/soft Sage SPL series. I heard that they designed the line first and then worked on the rods. I guess it has a special core and is tapered to preform best at 10 to 30 feet? I think the Sage ‘Quiet Taper’ and the Mastery ‘XPS’ DT  are the top choices around our shop for short casting for trout? — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA http://www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I had mentioned that I wasn’t real happy with the Cortland Clear Creek Taper for fishing in close, less than 30-35 ft., and was wondering if the Sage Quiet Taper might be a better choice for fishing in close with light rods. ROFF’s ultimate gear whore just happened to have a Sage Quiet Taper WF2 already rigged up on an Orvis CFO 1, beautiful little reel BTW, and he sent it along via snail mail for me to try. Thanks, Wayne. I put it on the Peter Charles 1 wt and walked across the street to the retention pond with Kipper the hound to test it out. Cutting right to the chase, I couldn’t tell much difference between the Clear Creek Taper and the Quiet Taper in WF2. Both seem to have long, fine front tapers that would be nice and delicate at 35-40 ft but don’t load a 1 wt very well at less than 30 ft. Forget roll casting. The small mountain streams of western North Carolina require short casts and roll casts more often than long, delicate spring creek type casts. I’ll take Peter’s advice and rig up the SA Ultra 3 for a test cast on the ice. Speaking of the ice, it is really quite refreshing to do something incredibly stupid and have a good long belly laugh at yourself. After testing the two lines for in close casting I decided to see how far I could cast. My back cast hit the chain link fence of the tennis court at about 45 ft or so. Now a person with an IQ bigger than his shoe size would have just moved to the other side of the pond away from the tennis court. Not your dumb ass correspondent, no I decided the thing to do was to step out onto the ice a few feet. You ever seen a hound dog laugh ? Kipper the hound looked at me like he’d be forever embarrassed to be associated with such a stupid dog, and he was right. But what the hell, if you survive it, doing something stupid now and then can be sort of amusing. That was the end of the casting comparison, I was wet, the hound was dry and we hurried back across the street so that the dumber of the two could dry off. — Ken Fortenberry

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let’s see… the 3dt mastery is on a Winston Perfect, the 3dt courtland 444 is on a Princess the 3/4 tt is on the TR1 the 3wf mastery is on a golden JLH,   the 3wf spring creek is on a LP1.5,,, the 3dt silk is on a St. George Nope sorry no more CFO I’s in the bin <g, in a fit of lust for some new cane I sold my CFO 123 to Peter, cheaply I might add. Wayne Knight (remove nospam to respond via mail) Expert in the creation of  wind knots and tailing loops.

I thought I was a gear whore. Now it appears I am just a gear whore in training. Big Dale – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

I’ll take Peter’s advice and rig up the SA Ultra 3 for a test cast on the ice.

You got one laying around or do you want me to mail you one of those too? <g But what the hell, if you survive it, doing something stupid now and then can be sort of amusing.

Great little story, thanks. — Wayne Knight Expert in creating tailing loops and windknots Otherwise Fishless in Kansas Before you buy.

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(gear report and self-inflicted casualty report snipped) LOL, Forty.  I’m sure the hound had a good laugh. Mark Faulkner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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I’ll take Peter’s advice and rig up the SA Ultra 3 for a test cast on the ice. You got one laying around or do you want me to mail you one of those too? <g

Peter sent one, but I don’t have it rigged up. You could send another one of those beautiful little Orvis CFO’s if you want. Great little story, thanks.

Thanks, … I think. — Ken Fortenberry

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writes: Peter sent one, but I don’t have it rigged up. You could send another one of those beautiful little Orvis CFO’s if you want.

Let’s see… the 3dt mastery is on a Winston Perfect, the 3dt courtland 444 is on a Princess the 3/4 tt is on the TR1 the 3wf mastery is on a golden JLH,   the 3wf spring creek is on a LP1.5,,, the 3dt silk is on a St. George Nope sorry no more CFO I’s in the bin <g, in a fit of lust for some new cane I sold my CFO 123 to Peter, cheaply I might add. Wayne Knight (remove nospam to respond via mail) Expert in the creation of  wind knots and tailing loops.

Response:

I had mentioned that I wasn’t real happy with the Cortland Clear Creek Taper for fishing in close, less than 30-35 ft., and was wondering if the Sage Quiet Taper might be a better choice for fishing in close with light rods. ROFF’s ultimate gear whore just happened to have a Sage Quiet Taper WF2 already rigged up on an Orvis CFO 1, beautiful little reel BTW, and he sent it along via snail mail for me to try. Thanks, Wayne. I put it on the Peter Charles 1 wt and walked across the street to the retention pond with Kipper the hound to test it out. Cutting right to the chase, I couldn’t tell much difference between the Clear Creek Taper and the Quiet Taper in WF2. Both seem to have long, fine front tapers that would be nice and delicate at 35-40 ft but don’t load a 1 wt very well at less than 30 ft. Forget roll casting. The small mountain streams of western North Carolina require short casts and roll casts more often than long, delicate spring creek type casts. I’ll take Peter’s advice and rig up the SA Ultra 3 for a test cast on the ice. Speaking of the ice, it is really quite refreshing to do something incredibly stupid and have a good long belly laugh at yourself. After testing the two lines for in close casting I decided to see how far I could cast. My back cast hit the chain link fence of the tennis court at about 45 ft or so. Now a person with an IQ bigger than his shoe size would have just moved to the other side of the pond away from the tennis court. Not your dumb ass correspondent, no I decided the thing to do was to step out onto the ice a few feet. You ever seen a hound dog laugh ? Kipper the hound looked at me like he’d be forever embarrassed to be associated with such a stupid dog, and he was right. But what the hell, if you survive it, doing something stupid now and then can be sort of amusing. That was the end of the casting comparison, I was wet, the hound was dry and we hurried back across the street so that the dumber of the two could dry off. — Ken Fortenberry

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Question:

I’m looking for a description of the fishing itself.  I only ask this because you said I don’t need pay $ for a guide on my first day. Additionally, I’ve never fished the Madison River.  

Might not be so bad.  The guy is providing a boat and you will get to cover a lot of water.  You can come back on your own later and fish the spots that appeal to you (unless of course access is limited). Mu

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Ah, the B-52s. I miss them no matter where I am. Great rock and roll dance music!

I was talking about the shot B-52 not the music.  I’m a blue grass man.  I had no idea that there was a band called the B-52. Vern

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Ah, the B-52s. I miss them no matter where I am. Great rock and roll dance music! I was talking about the shot B-52 not the music.  I’m a blue grass man.  I had no idea that there was a band called the B-52.

I knew you weren’t referring to the band, Vern ;^)

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 In fact, you can have seperate quarters away from the likes of Fortenberry, Waldo, Tripper, Wayno, and Jeffy Miller.  These types will corrupt you.

        you eat one little… wayno

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I did not know they had been shot ! TL MC "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Yeah, and they all copied their name from the famous USAF droopy-winged B-52, many motored sumbitch that could carry enough bombs to drop from here to there.  We fondly called it the BUF, ie: Big Ugly F*cker.  I’ve been retired now for *30* years and that big sucker is still flying in the AF inventory.  It’s gonna outlast me fer sure. Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RETIRED – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ah, the B-52s. I miss them no matter where I am. Great rock and roll dance music! I was talking about the shot B-52 not the music.  I’m a blue grass man.  I had no idea that there was a band called the B-52. Vern

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Yeah, and they all copied their name from the famous USAF droopy-winged B-52, many motored sumbitch that could carry enough bombs to drop from here to there.  We fondly called it the BUF, ie: Big Ugly F*cker.  I’ve been retired now for *30* years and that big sucker is still flying in the AF inventory.  It’s gonna outlast me fer sure.

I grew up in Wichita watching those bad boys fly around at Boeing and McConnell (my dad worked on them at Boeing). Awesome plane. — Charlie…

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Frank Church writes: Yeah, and they all copied their name from the famous USAF droopy-winged B-52, many motored sumbitch that could carry enough bombs to drop from here to there.  We fondly called it the BUF, ie: Big Ugly F*cker.  I’ve been retired now for *30* years and that big sucker is still flying in the AF inventory.  It’s gonna outlast me fer sure.

Frank, I used to live within shouting distance of Westover AFB.  I can remember the B-47s taking off and landing.  But then came those bigger BUFs, the B-52 Speaking of droopy wings — the U-2 wasn’t exactly a stubby winged aircraft. One scared the hell out of me in Japan, landing without power, gliding about 100 feet off the ground, as I walked to work.  All I saw was a giant shadow whisking over me.  It was going into Atsugi Naval Air Station on the other side of the rice paddies. OBROFF:  There is probably still room for the Maine Clave next September. Great fishing, great food, great friends.  Consider it.  Fourteen attending so far. Dave L.

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I grew up in Wichita watching those bad boys fly around at Boeing and McConnell (my dad worked on them at Boeing). Awesome plane.

B-52’s flew in and out of Hanscom Field in the town I grew up in, to get outfitted with the latest black boxes that the Charles Stark Draper and Mitre Labs folks cooked up over there. Flight path to the only runway that’d take those big mf’s went right over our house, but that wasn’t close enough for me and my friends, so we’d ride our bikes out to the perimeter fence at the end of the safety zone and watch them big bastids swoop in and out. Awesome. It’s a miracle I can still hear anything… /daytripper

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of the safety zone and watch them big bastids swoop in and out. Awesome.

I saw one take off back in the 70s that must have been using water injectors and the whole deal; I don’t know what his angle of climb was but I was looking for the CONELRAD station on my dial<g. — Charlie…

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Awesome.

"…fryin’ chickens in the barnyard!" General "Buck" Turgidson

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<Snipped tribute to B-52’s & U-2’s.

Dave Years ago I used to work in the Oklahoma Panhandle which is pretty sparsely populated.  Unknown to me was the fact that there was a flyway for low altitude bombing runs that ran from Clayton, NM to somewhere in western OK.  I was driving down some dirt road trying to find a farmhouse when about 10 B-52’s flew over about 1,000 feet or less off the ground and at full bore.  These guys came one right after the other and just after you lost your  hearing , you could still feel to car and ground vibrate.  The F-111’s that came after them sounded like learjets.  This was when I started carrying toilet paper in my car.  You never know. DP

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I did not know they had been shot !

The planes? They were shot _at_, but they got out unscathed. Opt out == cop-out. What’s so hard to understand?

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 I was driving down some dirt road trying to find a farmhouse when about 10 B-52’s flew over about 1,000 feet or less off the ground and at full bore.  

The early B52’s had the tail gunner actually in the tail. When they modified the plane for low altitude operations they had to move the position to the flight deck after they almost killed one or two in test flights. — Charlie…

Response:

Yesterday I was searching the Internet for a guide in Ennis, Montana for the western conclave.  I thought it would be fun to pay for a day with a guide to familiarize me with the area before doing it alone.  I couldn’t find any in the Ennis area.  Yea, a few in Montana just not in the Ennis area. While in the middle of searching and getting discouraged the man in the brown truck knocked on my door. Remember the fly rod that had the tip snapped off in the car door?  Some suggested I contact the company and see if they would replace it.  I followed your suggestion and sent it off.  The UPS man brought it back yesterday.  Well, I thought he brought it back.  However, when I opened the box it was a completely different rod.  It was a nice and new rod without the river slime on the cork handle.  Cool! The UPS man asked me what it was and I told him the story.  I also told him that I’m going to Montana in July for a fly-fishing conclave.  I also told him that I was searching the Internet for a guide for a guide but couldn’t find one. He replied, "I don’t know what part of Montana your going.  But, if it’s near Ennis, my father in-law is a guide." I almost started laughing.  "Ennis!  That’s where were going," I said. He then informed me that his father in-law is currently in Las Vegas on vacation. What are the odds? To make a long story a little shorter, I talked to his father in-law.  His name is Bob Cleverley.  He’s currently retired but used to be a HS football coach.  He’s been a guide on the Madison River for over 15 years.  I think he said 17 years but not certain.  He has owned a fly shop in the past. However, running the shop, his guide service, and teaching at the local HS was to much for him so he got rid of the fly shop.  Now he’s retired.  How nice for him. Now back to the guide service, it’s a flat fee of $275 which includes transportation, a full day of fly-fishing, over 20 miles floating on the Madison in a 17 foot fiberglass drift-boat, food for the day, and all the local information a local lifetime fly-fisherman can provide.  The price is a flat fee per boat regardless of how many go.  However, only two fly-fisherman per boat.  He has three boats.  He also has other friends that provide guide service. I was hoping another ROFFian could split the price with me.  What I was thinking $150 each.  That would pay for the $275 fee and a $25 tip.  If the fishing is good I could tip him even more. I believe the western conclave is scheduled for July 21-31 in spite George’s desire for it to be around the 4th of July.  I will be taking 9 days off work.  Although, I’m driving and allowing 2 days up and 2 days back.  I have 2 options for my days off, the July18-26 or the July 25- Aug. 2.  That translates into my conclave days either July 21-24 or July 27-31.  I have to make that decision on the day my fly-fishing partner can take the guide service. Here it is, either a guide service on July 21 or July 27.  If you are interested on sharing a trip with me post it or send me an e-mail. Additionally, let me know what day is best for you.  I will schedule the trip.  I don’t have to put a deposit down at this point.  However, after the first of July if I need to cancel there is a $100 cancellation fee. Again, Bob Cleverley has three boats and can get more if needed.  The more ROFFians the better. Vern

Response:

Vern writes:

(lil snip) Since I’ve never been to a conclave before I don’t really know what goes on other than breakfast preparation in one’s BVDs, midnight fishing trips while hanging onto a wooden love, sleeping-in while others post to ROFF on their notebooks, lots of drinking and a lot more drinking, rowdy conversations, and really good fishing.  Can you please provide a standard description of a ROFF conclave so I know what to expect?  Warren’s not going to be the guide all ten day is he?

Vern, not to worry.  At an conclave, you can do just about as you please.  The organizers will have scouted out places to fish and will direct you to such places and perhaps even guide you seperately. There will probably be folks at the Western Clave who have fished those waters and they will help Warren in fishing assignments and guiding.  The main thing of any clave is to have fun fishing with buddies/friends, regardless how you met them.  The internet claves I have attended so far have been filled with juvenile antics, much joking, swearing, hard-assing, by a bunch of educated serious men on their way to go fly fishing. Stories about one’s bvds and night fishing etc. are bound to occur.  There will be more stories from the Western Clave and the Spring Fling for that matter. No one is forcing you to drink or smoke or stay up late. In fact, you can have seperate quarters away from the likes of Fortenberry, Waldo, Tripper, Wayno, and Jeffy Miller.  These types will corrupt you.  You could  hang around with Charlie Choc – go to bed early, wake up late, go fishing.  <g As I understand it, you would like to get to Ennis a day or so early and "scout" the place out, possibly even hire a guide for a day.  Arriving early and checking things out is ok, but I am sure Warren and the rest of the western roffians would be more than willing to help. Main thought here, Vern, is:  don’t worry about it.  You will be with friends. They may hard-ass ya, and joke with ya, but they love ya and will make sure you have a great time. I hope to fish with you.  I will have my grand-sons (15 and 16) with me. Dave L.

Response:

Since I’ve never been to a conclave before I don’t really know what goes on other than breakfast preparation in one’s BVDs, midnight fishing trips while hanging onto a wooden love, sleeping-in while others post to ROFF on their notebooks, lots of drinking and a lot more drinking, rowdy conversations, and really good fishing.  Can you please provide a standard description of a ROFF conclave so I know what to expect?

Given your opening paragraph, that’d be redundant. You nailed it! Warren’s not going to be the guide all ten day is he?

There should be at least a few people that have fished that area to allow the group to break up into smaller units. Nobody’s gonna want to fish the Madison for the entire duration – there are many other rivers to fish within 2 or 3 hours of Ennis. I should mention that I gave up alcohol and cigars around 3 to 4 years ago. I miss them at times, but I made a commitment and I can’t afford to break it.  If I do, I don’t think I could stop again.  I think I miss the cigars more than I do the B-52s, especially at the stream.

Ah, the B-52s. I miss them no matter where I am. Great rock and roll dance music! So, whatever description you provide, there’s no need to tempt me with explanations of liquid refreshment.

Normally I’d torture you by noting that you’re surely doomed to a week of depravity, moral turpitude, and Xtreme Liver Abuse. However, I’ll go easy on you and note that Le Duc Du Chocolate has escaped unscathed – repeatedly – with his facilities intact and his morals unmolested. Despite repeated attempts to torpedo same. I’m looking for a description of the fishing itself.  I only ask this because you said I don’t need pay $ for a guide on my first day. Additionally, I’ve never fished the Madison River.  I don’t know what to expect.  If others that have fished the Madison would be kind enough to describe what kind of river it is, I would be much appreciated.

The upper reaches – assuming the river below the Hebgen Lake hasn’t changed much – is a short set of small braids winding through the pucker brush. Short rod fishing works best there. These collect into a modest flow for about a mile if memory serves, then there’s a broad stretch (lake-ish) a few miles long – not really fishable on foot iirc – until you get below Rock Creek. Then you have about 10 miles of fishable water down to Kirby Ranch. From there down to Varney (about 25 miles I think) and beyond the river becomes broader and more boisterous – depending on how much water is coming down through a whole host of creeks – and the best (or at least easiest) fishing is from a drift boat. I’ve done the stretch from Kirby Ranch to the Varney bridge a few times in my life and caught some prodigiously large trout and white fish. There were lots of places to stop the boat and get out and wade gravel bars and cast to wonderful holes. The biggest trout I’ve ever hooked and lost was in the middle of that stretch. There was good fishing on foot along a lot of the river the last time I was out there – but that was before people started building goddamned houses along the banks and posting it, and of course the whirling disease has probably changed what’s in the river – so I’ll have to let others bring me up to date. But again, that’s just one river – and there are a handful of famous streams within 3 hours or so of Ennis. If this post doesn’t make much sense, it’s because I’m falling asleep after a long day.  It’s now 12:30 in Las Vegas.  So, please forgive any errors.

Wimp! It’s now 5:54 in Massachusetts and I’ve been up all night getting a newsletter published. Forget sleepin’ – it’d only make me feel even worse – so it’s direct-injected caffeine for me today! /daytripper (I’m getting too old for this shit!)

Response:

speaking of the western clave, where the hell is Warren?

He’s doing fine. I got an email from him a few days ago. Everything is on track for the Western Clave. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

You don’t need to pay hard-earned money for guide, Vern, Warren’s the guide. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Since I’ve never been to a conclave before I don’t really know what goes on other than breakfast preparation in one’s BVDs, midnight fishing trips while hanging onto a wooden love, sleeping-in while others post to ROFF on their notebooks, lots of drinking and a lot more drinking, rowdy conversations, and really good fishing.  Can you please provide a standard description of a ROFF conclave so I know what to expect?  Warren’s not going to be the guide all ten day is he? I should mention that I gave up alcohol and cigars around 3 to 4 years ago. I miss them at times, but I made a commitment and I can’t afford to break it.  If I do, I don’t think I could stop again.  I think I miss the cigars more than I do the B-52s, especially at the stream.  So, whatever description you provide, there’s no need to tempt me with explanations of liquid refreshment. I’m looking for a description of the fishing itself.  I only ask this because you said I don’t need pay $ for a guide on my first day. Additionally, I’ve never fished the Madison River.  I don’t know what to expect.  If others that have fished the Madison would be kind enough to describe what kind of river it is, I would be much appreciated. If this post doesn’t make much sense, it’s because I’m falling asleep after a long day.  It’s now 12:30 in Las Vegas.  So, please forgive any errors. Vern – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You don’t need to pay hard-earned money for guide, Vern, Warren’s the guide. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Probably sick of George dominating the news group. Big Dale

Response:

Probably sick of George dominating the news group. Big Dale

Big D, Have you been getting any ‘gills this winter? There’s a nice lake up here that has bass and gills in it. It also has yours and my name on it one afternoon in May. Stay loose big guy, Walt — Ezflyfish.com:  http://www.ezflyfish.com For Book & Print Auctions: http://www.amazon.com/seller/mariebooks Blue Ridge Book Gallery: http://www.bibliofind.com/cgi-bin/texis.exe/s/search/dhome.html?id=33… P.O. Box 5112, Banner Elk, NC 28604

Response:

speaking of the western clave, where the hell is Warren? — Levi Always do sober what you said you’d do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut. –Ernest Hemingway

According to Dave L. he’s been busy with hunting and his work. Darin

Response:

speaking of the western clave, where the hell is Warren? — Levi Always do sober what you said you’d do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut. –Ernest Hemingway

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Darin Minor writes: speaking of the western clave, where the hell is Warren? — Levi Always do sober what you said you’d do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut. –Ernest Hemingway According to Dave L. he’s been busy with hunting and his work. Darin

Yeah, but that was about two weeks ago that I heard from him.   Dave L.

Response:

Question:

I have used both the drying patch on my vest and a ripple foam pin-on fly holder for keeping wet flys after changeouts astream.

Great review snipped. I have used one of these now for a year and agree with the above review. There are two sizes of Fly Trap, I think both same price. I have the smaller one. Cheers Peter

Response:

I attached the Fly Trap to my mesh vest and it works admirably.

And a contrary review…I attached a fly trap to my vest and the lid came off at the hinge in the middle of the Hiwassee River. Will never use one again. Wayne Knight (remove nospam to respond via mail) Expert in the creation of  wind knots and tailing loops.

Response:

Wayne Knight: <<And a contrary review…I attached a fly trap to my vest and the lid came off at the hinge in the middle of the Hiwassee River. Will never use one again. As did mine after about 3 days of fishing.  I threw the damn thing in the trash.  Good idea.  Bad execution. Dave L.

Response:

0] : Wayne Knight: : <<And a contrary review…I attached a fly trap to my vest and the lid came off : at the hinge in the middle of the Hiwassee River. Will never use one again. : As did mine after about 3 days of fishing.  I threw the damn : thing in the trash.  Good idea.  Bad execution. : Dave L. Much to be preferred is Mike Connor’s two cent version of the same. It’s a 35mm film can with a bunch of holes punched in it. A cord passes thru a hole in the lid and is attached to the can. The other end of cord is attached to vest. Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories  (remove x’s from email if not      Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971   a spammer) Phone: (650)-857-5491              

Response:

Wayne Knight: <<And a contrary review…I attached a fly trap to my vest and the lid came off at the hinge in the middle of the Hiwassee River. Will never use one again. As did mine after about 3 days of fishing.  I threw the damn thing in the trash.  Good idea.  Bad execution. Dave L.

hmmm, maybe I have one of the three good ones, I’ve had mine for 3 seasons now and haven’t had a speck of trouble with it. I hardly use a regular fly box any more, I only tie a few flies at a time, usually the night before I go fishing and they go right in the Fly Trap, between those and the ones left in it from the last time I went, there are always enough to get me thru a day. John Before you buy.

Response:

Wayne Knight: <<And a contrary review…I attached a fly trap to my vest and the lid came off at the hinge in the middle of the Hiwassee River. Will never use one again. As did mine after about 3 days of fishing.  I threw the damn thing in the trash.  Good idea.  Bad execution.

My wife and I both have one.  They’ve worked well for us for the past couple years.  I’ll have a look at ours to see if the hinge pins seem to be working loose. — Bob Jarvis Mail address hacked to foil spammers!

Response:

I have used both the drying patch on my vest and a ripple foam pin-on fly holder for keeping wet flys after changeouts astream.  I have found the pin-on gets in the way of everything and both the pin-on and drying patch have lost flys before they could be returned to the fly box.  I recently acquired a Fly Trap from Ezflyfish and gave it a try last week.  This is an interesting device as it consists of ripple foam on a fold-out shelf.  The little black box attaches to the vest, shirt, or jacket with an interesting spring clip which holds firmly and positively without damaging the material.  It is easy to attach and detach for moving between outer garments.  The front of the box drops down and sticks out at a 90 degree angle like a shelf.  It is easy to pick flys off of the ripple foam shelf or add flys to the shelf.  Vents along the sides expedite drying.  Flys closed up in the trap are secure from loss and dry effectively.  The drawbacks are the additional bulk and weight (minimal but minimalist would scrutinize every gadget)and the cost (about $20).  Certainly a ventilated film canister would work also but I think not as effectively as the Fly Trap.  A canister bottom could be dropped and lost with its cargo.  The Fly Trap could also be loaded with a dozen favorite flys and carried alone as a small stream box very effeciently.  Dropping the shelf down and looking down at a glance shows you your flys without holding the box in your hand.  Come to think about it, a vest could be made up with several of these arranged to suit the wearer.  A customizable vest so to speak. The black, non-glare finish helps small stream stealth and its overall light weight and compactness favors small stream fishing as well.  I attached the Fly Trap to my mesh vest and it works admirably. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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Question:

[deleted] Don’t get too hung up on graphite specs.

Good call Dan !. *Much* better to buy based on more *useful* information such as: MVR (Maximum Vibration Technology) <g — TimW – Halfordian Golfer Guilt replaced the creel…

Response:

writes: Good call Dan !. *Much* better to buy based on more *useful* information such as: MVR (Maximum Vibration Technology) <g

Hi Tim, The point I was trying to make was that yes, there is a lot of different technology out there (including Orvis’ Maximum Vibration Reduction), but the whole point of the tech is to make a rod that works well and feels good to the individual.    It doesn’t matter what the technology is behind it if it doesn’t feel good (or make a difference) to the person buying it.  Got to keep that horse in front of the cart.<g                              Good Fishing,                                     Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools Mt. Shasta Fly Fishing Schools http://www.thegrid.net/flyfish

Response:

I’ve heard the designation IM6 used when describing rods. It seems as though this is some "grade" of graphite. Can someone enlighten me as to what it means? Thanks, Scott Wilkinson

Hi Scott, There are four generations of graphite compositions that rod makers use today. The original or first generation called graphite #1 is ~30 million modulus The second generation called graphite #2 or IM6 is ~40 million modulus The third generation called graphite #3 is ~ 50 million modulus The fourth generation called graphite #4 is ~ 64 million modulus The later generations are usually lighter and more efficient, but I am really more concerned about how they cast. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

Response:

Snip, snip….Don’t get too hung up on graphite specs.  Try out the rod and

see how it worksfor your needs.  Just because a rod says it is IM6 does not necessarily mean it is a better rod than one made out of the older graphite, or a worse rod than a rod made out of a newer graphite formula.  It allows the rod designer more design options than the old graphite and not as many options as the newestgraphite.  The result depends a lot on the skill of the rod designer and how he utilises those capabilities. Hope this helps,

I didn’t raise the question, but that’s about as good an answer as anybody could ask for. Cleared things up for me, anyway. Thanks. From the minute we’re born we all start dying;some of us just take longer than others. Me? I’ve been dragging my feet, but it doesn’t seem to help much.

Response:

I’ve heard the designation IM6 used when describing rods. It seems as though this is some "grade" of graphite. Can someone enlighten me as to what it means?

It stands for "Intermediate Modulus 600" and is a graphite specification that is used to make fly rods.  It is typically known as second generation graphite and was pretty much the standard for many rod companies prior to the higher modulus graphites (third and fourth generation) currently used.  Lots of good fly rods were/are made from this material although it is no longer the standard of the industry. I believe  Winston still makes all of their rods out of this material and they make some very nice (and expensive) fly rods from it. Don’t get too hung up on graphite specs.  Try out the rod and see how it works for your needs.  Just because a rod says it is IM6 does not necessarily mean it is a better rod than one made out of the older graphite, or a worse rod than a rod made out of a newer graphite formula.  It allows the rod designer more design options than the old graphite and not as many options as the newest graphite.  The result depends a lot on the skill of the rod designer and how he utilises those capabilities.                     Hope this helps,                           Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools Mt. Shasta Fly Fishing Schools http://www.thegrid.net/flyfish

Response:

I’ve heard the designation IM6 used when describing rods. It seems as though this is some "grade" of graphite. Can someone enlighten me as to what it means? Thanks, Scott Wilkinson

Response:

there was an excellent posting on all the types of graphite a couple of months back. I suggest you search Dejanews if you want the straight goods as I am sure I have muddled it up in my memory a tad; graphite as a raw material is available from a number of manufacturers. The original graphite had a modulus of 33 million or so ( 33 million what?) About 10 years ago "2nd generation" graphite appeared with a modulus of 42 million: IM6 and Sage’s graphite II were part of this crowd. 3rd generation followed (ie Graphite III), modulus of maybe 50 million etc etc. So IM6 refers to a 2nd generation graphite fibre from a particular manufacturer. It’s been used a long while, it’s proven, rod designers know it’s qualities and a lot of people like rods made from it. Ralph H note spurious hyperbole, insults and ‘personal attacks’ made by the author are meant to honour "the Soul of Cicero" and are not intended as personal slights. Please don’t take offense as none is intended. remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

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Question:

I recently inherited a split cane fly rod and would like to identify its source and possible age.  It is a 3 piece, 10′6", with spare top section, has screw type ferrules, cork grip, and wrappings approx. every inch along its length. I always thought it was a salmon rod but the last time I was allowed to use it was about 1950 in England, so my memory is a bit hazy.

It would be unlikely (though not impossible) that it’s primary function was as a salmon rod. Even today salmon in Britain are normally fished for with two-handed rods, from 12 to 15 or more feet long. You may fish for summer fish with a shorter rod but you’ll then be said to be fishing with a trout rod. It might well be one of two things: a sea-trout rod (in other words trout that migrate to sea like steelhead) and are fished for on rivers – that is if the action is quite tight and fast, or, I think more likely,  a boat rod,  for fishing for trout from a boat drifiting along on a lake with the prevailing wind. In this fashion, casts are quite short, and very soft rods were used – very often around this length. I still have one my father inherited in the 1920s from a major Irish fisherman, but I must say that I find it unfishable. I fish with split cane on the English chalkstreams, but anything of ten foot I would find very hard going

Response:

I recently inherited a split cane fly rod and would like to identify its source and possible age.  It is a 3 piece, 10′6", with spare top section, has screw type ferrules, cork grip, and wrappings approx. every inch along its length. I always thought it was a salmon rod but the last time I was allowed to use it was about 1950 in England, so my memory is a bit hazy. The only identifying mark is on the brass butt piece and that has partially worn off.  It has the inscription  " CA??ER and CO.  London  ". I’m not expecting it to be of any value, other than sentimental, but I would like to know its age and origins. Also I intend to fish with it so could somebody give me some idea of the possible line weight used with these rods.   Thanks  Ed — Ed Fenton Burlington, Ontario, Canada

Response:

Ed, I think this rod was made by (or for ?) Carter & Co., London that appears to have been a tackle store (??) that existed from 1853 till 1969. The company changed it’s name from Alfred Carter to Carter & Co. in 1901, so your rod is definitely post 1901. This is all I could find out from my books. regards Inge Solberg Houston, TX – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I recently inherited a split cane fly rod and would like to identify its source and possible age. It is a 3 piece, 10′6", with spare top section, has screw type ferrules, cork grip, and wrappings approx. every inch along its length. I always thought it was a salmon rod but the last time I was allowed to use it was about 1950 in England, so my memory is a bit hazy. The only identifying mark is on the brass butt piece and that has partially worn off.  It has the inscription  " CA??ER and CO.  London  ". I’m not expecting it to be of any value, other than sentimental, but I would like to know its age and origins. Also I intend to fish with it so could somebody give me some idea of the possible line weight used with these rods.   Thanks  Ed — Ed Fenton Burlington, Ontario, Canada

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently inherited a split cane fly rod and would like to identify its source and possible age.  It is a 3 piece, 10′6", with spare top section, has screw type ferrules, cork grip, and wrappings approx. every inch along its length. I always thought it was a salmon rod but the last time I was allowed to use it was about 1950 in England, so my memory is a bit hazy. The only identifying mark is on the brass butt piece and that has partially worn off.  It has the inscription  " CA??ER and CO.  London  ". I’m not expecting it to be of any value, other than sentimental, but I would like to know its age and origins. Also I intend to fish with it so could somebody give me some idea of the possible line weight used with these rods. Thanks  Ed — Ed Fenton Burlington, Ontario, Canada

Heck, I’m no expert (for sure) but I may be able to point you in the right direction.  It does sound like a salmon rod, probably taking about an 8 to 10 weight line.  The wraps every inch or so were called "intermediate wraps" and were originally used when glues weren’t very good.  However, UK-built rods seem to value tradition and rods with intermediate wraps were available in the 1970’s (I believe from Clifford Constable — or was it J.Sharpe?).  In my web wanderings I found a site that frequently auctions cane rods in the UK (I think it is www.auctions-on-line.com, if that doesn’t work e-mail me and I’ll find it) with descriptions, etc.  Sorry I can’t help with the name of the actual maker — I only know of companies that were on the scene in the 1970’s or later (i.e., Hardy, Constable, Farlow, Sharpe, Partridge, etc.). BTW–If you do find out exactly what it is, please post a follow-up. George (Irish descent, not living in Ireland)

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Question:

my only complaint is that he and his wife giggle like morons every

time they hook a fish.  Can anybody shed any light on this?<<<   Drives me into the trees as well ! Harry

Response:

my only complaint is that he and his wife giggle like morons every time they hook a fish.  Can anybody shed any light on this?<<<  Drives me into the trees as well ! Harry

  Yea, I hate to complain about the only show dedicated to our beloved pastime, however, the giggling drives me NUTS and I can’t figure out why after so many guided trips they would not be able to come up with some places to go on thier own!!! ( Maybe cause the plug for thier own travel service is at the end of the show )              /Leave nothing but your footprints                                               /                                              /                                             /                                            /                                           /                                       O  /                                       |_/o                                       |                                      / |

Response:

I do not know these people but I ran into them on the Big Horn and they seemed like nice people trying to make a living from the kinds of people who buy videos about flyfishing (I guess in hopes they will become better flyfishers).  I guess if you paid a lot of money for the video you have a right to bitch — otherwise it sounds just like jealousy to me.

Response:

Harry  Yea, I hate to complain about the only show dedicated to our beloved pastime, however, the giggling drives me NUTS and I can’t figure out why after so many guided trips they would not be able to come up with some places to go on thier own!!! ( Maybe cause the plug for thier own travel service is at the end of the show )                                      Jay

Jay: I only recently noticed this thread.  Is "this guy and his wife" by any chance Jim and Kelly Watt who produce a fishing show for ESPN? Ed —

Response:

OK, ok.  I started all of this hoping to find out if this Watt was related to the rape and pillage Watt of the ’80’s interior dept.  I’m sorry about the giggling remark, but it is a bit excessive, if perfectly sincere in appreciation for the exhilaration of hooking a fish on a fly.  I believe the show is top notch (anything’s better than Bill Dance).  If Jim and Kelly are in on this thread, I hereby invite them to a full day’s guided fly fishing for smallmouth bass on the beautiful upper Potomac near Harper’s Ferry, WVA–two custom whitewater fishing rafts, two guides, and lunch for the whole crew.  Laugh all you want, and catch triple-digits of smallies.  

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I only recently noticed this thread.  Is "this guy and his wife" by any chance Jim and Kelly Watt who produce a fishing show for ESPN? Yup, the same Giggle Twins…Say what you want, they make the sanctimonious blatherings of John Barrett in his Fly Fishing The World look good by comparison… Thank god for ESPN, VCRs, and the fast forward button – because I can’t see waking up early on a Saturday morning to listen to the flyfishing equivalent to Beavis and Butthead (hee! tee hee!…YUCK!) /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.    Alpha Server Engineering  < <         "Read this and nobody gets hurt ;^)"         < <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Yeah…YEAH… and another thing… Fortunately I don’t get cable, but I’ve seen a couple of the Watt’s videos and can’t imagine how you guys don’t find it absolutely charmning when Kelly talks baby talk while fighting a tarpon. "Ooooh I tink I wost it". Give me a break. What these shows need are real people doing this fishing, people who haven’t shaved in a couple days, cussin and fartin’ in their waders. Yeah. Me for example. Yeah and Wayne too, they can send us off to all the great fishing locations. And we’ll have guests too : jc : "Well Wayne, looks like we’re ready to fish for barramundi here in Australia." wt : "Yes we are John, and here comes our special guest, Ingrid Newkirk!" etc. no laughing, no newage music, no tarponwear. jez fishun.                                                         jc

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If Jim & Kelly can’t make it, I’d like to volunteer, and I’ll even giggle if it’s absolutely necessary. bob vorel

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I only recently noticed this thread.  Is "this guy and his wife" by any chance Jim and Kelly Watt who produce a fishing show for ESPN? Yup, the same Giggle Twins…Say what you want, they make the sanctimonious blatherings of John Barrett in his Fly Fishing The World look good by comparison… Thank god for ESPN, VCRs, and the fast forward button – because I can’t see waking up early on a Saturday morning to listen to the flyfishing equivalent to Beavis and Butthead (hee! tee hee!…YUCK!) /dave

YeeeeeeeeeeHaaaaaaaaaaa!  Ride ‘em, Dave! — "Are the crows calling to me?" Asked Caw.

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Good idea about turning down the sound.  I have their videos in my shop, and they are good references if you are planning a trip to one of those destinations.  However, listening to them for too long is akin to water torture.  Dave

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be critical of jim watt all you want…we’re all stuck at work on our computers and he’s out in the boat with kelly…fishing no less.

 True Story !!.   Harry

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be critical of jim watt all you want…we’re all stuck at work on our computers and he’s out in the boat with kelly…fishing no less…

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Question:

Hi everyone, I just started fly tying (a X-Mas gift) and I like it very much. I’m astounded at what I can do with my ten thumbs. I was wandering if there was any flies database? A database that would include pattern, variance, region for fishing the fly and an image of the fly to see it before tying it. If this databse exist, where? Thank you for your time and patience. Dep. Sc.Education           FrancoMedia: 101:190/600 U.Q.T.R.                    FidoNet    : 1:167/420 C.P.500                     Fax        : (819) 376-5127 Trois-Rivieres, Que.        Phone      : (819) 376-5095 (messages) CANADA   G9A 5H7             ~~~ * VbReader 2.22 #67 * Diner non pret: (A)vorter (R)eessayer (P)izza

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There is a very good IBM program which I think is called Flybase that does what you describe. There is a company in Boston called Hypercomplete Angler that sells a mac based program as well. Computer based fishing programs were covered in one of last year’s Fly Fisherman magazines. The Flybase program is now carried by many fly shops. I know Gates Au Sable Lodge in Grayling Michigan carries it.  Good Luck–Steve Rosenblum, Ann Arbor.

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