Question:

. Cheap rod a child can use I should have mentioned, this is for a 2 year old. Rick

Depends on fishing habits and conditions. Your normal habits will of course have to change, mainly taking turns while the "sitter" of the moment explores nature, a little splashing, turning over rocks, touching moss-bark-worms-mud etc. a chest pak carrier (with the child facing forward) provides security, restraint, and mobility.  Of course the child will not remember it later but you will, as a most wondrous phase in your lives. I can tell you that as the family grows your fishing habits will continue change culminating with a trip with the grand children. Maybe if you are as lucky as me, Great grand children and the realization of how blessed your life has been and what fun fishing buddies you have.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Find another couple with the same problem. Their passion doesn’t have to be fishing, could be golf, tennis, whatever.  The couples take turns looking after the other’s child.  Since the visiting child gets to play with a new playmate and toys, interest should not be a problem. Peter Damn!  I hate it when people give sound and thoughtful advice. Opie  –Planning for the Past– Really.  I was waiting for some wag to suggest giving the kid a box of treble hooks the night before and then letting the doctors and your HMO take care of it from there, or something in equally poor taste…<G. Seriously, I liked the idea of taking the child, but the parents taking turns fishing.  Heck, by three or four, I was fishing – not quite with a fly yet, and not quite catching much (I’m not sure if I even had a complete hook – hey, if it’s not dynamite or electricity, it’s called _fishing_, not catching), but it taught me patience, etc. If that’s not practical, Peter’s idea seems pretty decent – maybe even find another couple in similar position (or even better, one non-fisher) and three can fish while one watches the kiddos. TC, R

BRAGGING RIGHTS::: At four my great grandson caught his first trophy large mouth, "gramps" cast,(we hadn’t known he was a lefty then) and lipped it. He did the rest. 21.5" of galloping bass, I’m surprised you didn’t hear me whooping.

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Will send you a video one day just to prove it )

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Admittedly I would never take my kids fishing they are obnoxious and annoying. LOL.  This is one of the funniest lines I’ve read on ROFF (I hope you intended it that way) and a sure candidate for Brutally Honest Comment of the Year. JR

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"Jo" < Admittedly I would never take my kids fishing they are obnoxious and annoying.

… Bad habits can be broken…… john

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You havent met my kids with a fishing rod 2 out of three are officially hyperactive and the other one is a budding self absorbed model god forbid any dirt attaching itself to that one. Fishing is actually stressful with them.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Jo" < Admittedly I would never take my kids fishing they are obnoxious and annoying. … Bad habits can be broken…… john

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not much will stop a fishing couple from fishing, but lack of child care will do it. I’m wondering how others have handled this at fishing destinations? Lodges with kids programs? Day cares in town? I know that it’s always possible to hire a local person as a sitter, but I’m thinking more about organized, professional care which will be more fun for the child. TIA, Rick

I’ve got an almost-two year old myself, and I went on two vacations in two months–Maui in December and Orlando in January. During the trip to Maui, my mother came up from Raleigh, NC to PA and stayed at our house with the baby.  Baby sleeps in her own bed, gets spoiled by grandma for 8 days, loves it.  Baby learns to say "Hawaii" and locate the islands on the globe.  Mom & Dad enjoy the islands for a week. During the trip to FL, my grandmother & aunt (both live practically next door) shared the same duties as my mom did a month earlier.  Baby sleeps in own bed, gets spoiled by auntie & great-grandma for a 4-day weekend.  Mom & Dad bring home ‘mouse ears’ for baby, in an effort to remove the mouse ears, baby snaps elastic chin strap against face, cries vigorously.  Mom & Dad supress laughter (mostly). My tactic so far has been simple:  don’t take the kid. I share your dilemma.  Life with two year old is not really the ideal situation for spending day after day astream, especially if Mom wants to go fishing as badly as Dad does… The ‘find a couple and share babysitting’ plan is a good one.  You could probably get 6 weekends/year from that plan.  One weekend/month/couple:  one month you babysit, one month they babysit. If your life is anything like mine (hectic), one weekend every other month is probably as often as you can get away. Basically, my advice is this:  FAMILY.  Grandparents, great- grandparents (if your child is so lucky) aunts & uncles, etc.  They’re the best babysitters money can buy (free), and they’ll treat your child like family–obviously.  And most kids think of grandma or a favorite aunt/uncle as being at least as fun as the county fair, if not better. If you can get a family member to staty at your house, so much the better.  Thell them to pay-per-view anything they’d like, give them some $$$ for ordering pizza, etc., and make sure they know where the local park is and how to get there. If you don’t have any family in driving distance, consider moving. Unless, that is, you live far from family by design. <g  In which case I have no worthwhile advice for you. Some weekends, I’d give anything for a few hours of privacy (wink wink, nod nod) with the spousal unit.  I don’t care if the baby lives on M&Ms and Potato Chips for the entire weekend–just make sure there’s no crying in the background when I call to see how things are and I’ll have a good time without baby. With the upcomping Penns Clave, the wife & I are considering buying a big cabin tent (we live less than an hour from Coburn) and taking baby camping for the first time.  I’ve got some misgivings about exposing wife and baby to ROFFians, but it’s a possibility.  Wife doesn’t fly fish (yet), and baby will probably want to throw rocks in creek all day, but I’ve yet to find a better way to spend lots of time at the Clave.  Since we’re less than an hour from home, the worst that could happen is that we all go home at night. Tom G constantly struggling to find time to fish

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Not only family but friends are good resources.  Last time we took boys fishing (one good ol’ boy and one city boy), we went with Ol’ Whiskerface’s buddy.  One day, I’d take the kids sightseeing (indian ruins, big rocks, A&W rootbeer), the next day one or both menfolks would take one or both boys fishing, while I caught dinner.  We kinda "spread the wealth."  Now both boys all groan up and never call their mother.  Enjoy the little beggers while you can. Bob’s Wife in El Paso. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m wondering how others have handled this at fishing destinations? Basically, my advice is this:  FAMILY.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Find another couple with the same problem. Their passion doesn’t have to be fishing, could be golf, tennis, whatever.  The couples take turns looking after the other’s child.  Since the visiting child gets to play with a new playmate and toys, interest should not be a problem. Peter Damn!  I hate it when people give sound and thoughtful advice. Opie  –Planning for the Past–

Really.  I was waiting for some wag to suggest giving the kid a box of treble hooks the night before and then letting the doctors and your HMO take care of it from there, or something in equally poor taste…<G. Seriously, I liked the idea of taking the child, but the parents taking turns fishing.  Heck, by three or four, I was fishing – not quite with a fly yet, and not quite catching much (I’m not sure if I even had a complete hook – hey, if it’s not dynamite or electricity, it’s called _fishing_, not catching), but it taught me patience, etc. If that’s not practical, Peter’s idea seems pretty decent – maybe even find another couple in similar position (or even better, one non-fisher) and three can fish while one watches the kiddos.   TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Life as you knew is over. Some good tips in this thread but none that will make it like it was.  One reason there is so many geezers in roff is they have to wait till the kids leave and the dog dies to get back to fly fishing.  Fish when you can enjoy the kid. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not much will stop a fishing couple from fishing, but lack of child care will do it.

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Not much will stop a fishing couple from fishing, but lack of child care will do it. I’m wondering how others have handled this at fishing destinations?      None of my exes ever minded being left back at the cabin to watch the kids. Ummm, let me reword that, umm oh cripes, I think I’m starting to understand something.                   Charlie,                   getting in touch with my feminine side

    I think I know what you’re saying. My wife, when annoyed one time after I came home from a six hour round, asked me if I ever wondered why the 3 other guys in my Sunday morning foursome are all divorced.                                     Kelly

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[snip]     I think I know what you’re saying. My wife, when annoyed one time after I came home from a six hour round, asked me if I ever wondered why the 3 other guys in my Sunday morning foursome are all divorced.                                     Kelly

the answers are: "Because I have a wonderful wife and their wives were real B^%$^s"  or "Now don’t go putting any silly ideas in my head"

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I was expecting to hear something about lodges with rivers and kid programs, but I’d forgotten the warmth, creativity and thoughtfulness of this list. Several of the responses had me roaring with laughter. Thanks. Rick

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I was expecting to hear something about lodges with rivers and kid programs, but I’d forgotten the warmth, creativity and thoughtfulness of this list. Several of the responses had me roaring with laughter. Thanks. Rick

All in a days work, Rick! As a single guy for 42 years, you damn sure don’t want a serious reply from me.  Besides, I wouldn’t have a clue what to suggest.  But I have heard that bears are nurturing critters, to a point. Opie  –Planning for the Past–

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Seriously I think the only thing that would come close is taking the kid,…I have a friend who had been fly fishing with her dad since the age of 3 she is now 50 and coaches top fly fishers herself. Some of us are really lucky to have understanding spouses, in fact mine cancelled a golf afternoon without a blink because I planned to go fishing away for a weekend and forgot to tell him. Admittedly I would never take my kids fishing they are obnoxious and annoying.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was expecting to hear something about lodges with rivers and kid programs, but I’d forgotten the warmth, creativity and thoughtfulness of this list. Several of the responses had me roaring with laughter. Thanks. Rick

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Admittedly I would never take my kids fishing they are obnoxious and annoying.

LOL.  This is one of the funniest lines I’ve read on ROFF (I hope you intended it that way) and a sure candidate for Brutally Honest Comment of the Year. JR

Response:

Not much will stop a fishing couple from fishing, but lack of child care will do it. I’m wondering how others have handled this at fishing destinations? Lodges with kids programs? Day cares in town? I know that it’s always possible to hire a local person as a sitter, but I’m thinking more about organized, professional care which will be more fun for the child. TIA, Rick

Response:

Cheap rod a child can use

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not much will stop a fishing couple from fishing, but lack of child care will do it. I’m wondering how others have handled this at fishing destinations? Lodges with kids programs? Day cares in town? I know that it’s always possible to hire a local person as a sitter, but I’m thinking more about organized, professional care which will be more fun for the child. TIA, Rick

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. Cheap rod a child can use I should have mentioned, this is for a 2 year old. Rick

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Not much will stop a fishing couple from fishing, but lack of child care will do it. I’m wondering how others have handled this at fishing destinations?

Each of you fish half a day. There’ll be plenty of time for romance fishing when the kid’s older. –Steve (hey, you asked…)

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Children are God’s way of telling you that you have no business enjoying life. As toddlers they take up your time because they are helpless otherwise. As adolescents they must be shuttled to and fro from one activity to the next. As teenagers they are mean, nasty, vulgar little shits that may or may not require bail. As young adults they seem to have finally gotten their shit together, but will eventually destroy what is left of your sanity. As full grown adults they will fight with their siblings over some supposed fortune you are planning to leave, and then place you and your spouse in separate retirement homes. Realize of course that I speak from experience as a single guy.  BTW, mom and dad left me with nothing and they are presently communicating via the USPS, because I wouldn’t pay to have phone installed in their rooms at Shady Lake and Happy Trails Retirement Centers. Opie  –Bastard Son–

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not much will stop a fishing couple from fishing, but lack of child care will do it. I’m wondering how others have handled this at fishing destinations? Lodges with kids programs? Day cares in town? I know that it’s always possible to hire a local person as a sitter, but I’m thinking more about organized, professional care which will be more fun for the child. TIA, Rick

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not much will stop a fishing couple from fishing, but lack of child care will do it. I’m wondering how others have handled this at fishing destinations? Lodges with kids programs? Day cares in town? I know that it’s always possible to hire a local person as a sitter, but I’m thinking more about organized, professional care which will be more fun for the child. TIA, Rick

Find another couple with the same problem. Their passion doesn’t have to be fishing, could be golf, tennis, whatever.  The couples take turns looking after the other’s child.  Since the visiting child gets to play with a new playmate and toys, interest should not be a problem. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Find another couple with the same problem. Their passion doesn’t have to be fishing, could be golf, tennis, whatever.  The couples take turns looking after the other’s child.  Since the visiting child gets to play with a new playmate and toys, interest should not be a problem. Peter

Damn!  I hate it when people give sound and thoughtful advice. Opie  –Planning for the Past–

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Damn!  I hate it when people give sound and thoughtful advice. Opie  –Planning for the Past–

It’s a dirty job, but somebody’s gotta do it. Peter

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Not much will stop a fishing couple from fishing, but lack of child care will do it. I’m wondering how others have handled this at fishing destinations?

     None of my exes ever minded being left back at the cabin to watch the kids. Ummm, let me reword that, umm oh cripes, I think I’m starting to understand something.                   Charlie,                   getting in touch with my feminine side

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Question:

I didn’t see your original post so I don’tknow what your original questions were but I am pretty sure I can help you. — Capt Gordon Churchill http://www.flyfish-nc.com Guided flyfishing on the Roanoke River and the Crystal Coast of NC out of Atlantic Beach/Morhead City/Beaufort.

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THanks for the reply. My wife and I are coming to Harkers Island in late October for 2 days of Albie fishing with Sarah Gardner. We plan to come a day early and spend a day seeing the sights, fishing from shore, visiting tackle shops, etc. My question was asking about places to fish, sights to see, and generally what to do in the area. We have a 4×4. Any info will be terrific! Peter G. Aitken I didn’t see your original post so I don’tknow what your original questions were but I am pretty sure I can help you. — Capt Gordon Churchill http://www.flyfish-nc.com Guided flyfishing on the Roanoke River and the Crystal Coast of NC out of

Atlantic Beach/Morhead City/Beaufort.

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Thanks so much, Tony. We are heading down on Oct 23 so we still have time to plan. Any other info you can send will be terrific. Peter

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peter, I go to Harker’s Island every November for the ‘albert fishing and can offer some suggestions. 1. Places to eat: I always try the locally owned establishments. The Crab’s Claw and Sanitary Fish Market immediately come to mind. 2. All of the Core Banks is open to 4 wheel drive traffic, though you will have take one of the private commerical ferries over. I believe it cost me $120 for the vehicle and 2 people (round trip). Also there are a couple of services that will take you via boat to Core Banks (and I believe Shackleford Banks, wild horses on this one), for a small fee, maybe $25 or so. I know that one operates out of Harkers Island Marina.  This would allow you to walk the beaches, fish and  then be picked up in the afternoon. And I think the Park Service may operate one as well. I would also suggest you contact the guide or charter service you will be using, I’m sure they can provide you all of the information you need. I may be able to locate some of the info I originally dug up a few years ago when I started going there, if so I’ll let you know. Tony Minnick

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My wife and I will be doing a couple of days of charter fishing at Harker’s Island in late October. We have never been there and have some questions. 1. Recommendations on places to stay – or to avoid. 2. Restaurants. 3. We are considering going a day early to see the sights and do some from-the-shore fishing. What possibilities exist for this kind of fishing (either fly or surf casting)? Are there beaches that are open to trucks? Any and all information welcomed. THanks, Peter G. Aitken

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Check with Gordon Churchill at  http://www.flyfish-nc.com. Tom — Tom Brown Wake Forest, NC When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command.  Very often, that person is crazy.                                    …..Dave Barry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My wife and I will be doing a couple of days of charter fishing at Harker’s Island in late October. We have never been there and have some questions. 1. Recommendations on places to stay – or to avoid. 2. Restaurants. 3. We are considering going a day early to see the sights and do some from-the-shore fishing. What possibilities exist for this kind of fishing (either fly or surf casting)? Are there beaches that are open to trucks? Any and all information welcomed. THanks, Peter G. Aitken

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Peter, I go to Harker’s Island every November for the ‘albert fishing and can offer some suggestions. 1. Places to eat: I always try the locally owned establishments. The Crab’s Claw and Sanitary Fish Market immediately come to mind. 2. All of the Core Banks is open to 4 wheel drive traffic, though you will have take one of the private commerical ferries over. I believe it cost me $120 for the vehicle and 2 people (round trip). Also there are a couple of services that will take you via boat to Core Banks (and I believe Shackleford Banks, wild horses on this one), for a small fee, maybe $25 or so. I know that one operates out of Harkers Island Marina.  This would allow you to walk the beaches,  fish and  then be picked up in the afternoon. And I think the Park Service may operate one as well. I would also suggest you contact the guide or charter service you will be using, I’m sure they can provide you all of the information you need. I may be able to locate some of the info I originally dug up a few years ago when I started going there, if so I’ll let you know. Tony Minnick

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Question:

P.S.  after reading some of the postings, I hope that only those that can honestly help me reply to this posting. Well, they say hope springs eternal.  Just curious; when you go to the reference library do you ask them to keep all the red books covered? Wolfgang who can help….honestly….but declines, thank you.

Wolfie, you didn’t think she was REALLY going to skate by with that, did you?  Get Ready!!! — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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Joe, I have a GREAT idea!!  Come on down and pick up Lenny Young on the way.  We’ll head over to the Vally and fish our way up north toward Maryland. At the end of the day we’ll lay over in Berkley Springs WVa. Just south of town on 522 (north bound side of the road) is Bambi’s Massage.  The three of us will pile up in there, drink some Scotch, smoke some cigars, and have ol’e Bambi give us a nice relaxing rub- down.  In the meantime, we’ll give Monica a $10 gift certificate to Potomac Mills Outlet Mall, it’s the least we can do since she is footing the bill for our "fishing" trip!  We’ll be back Sunday evening, fished out and totally relaxed! Whadda’ya say guys!!

Sounds pretty good, but you may have tipped our hand by mentioning Bambi’s. No doubt you just happened to notice that place on the way to church. Why Monica, we’d NEVER take Lenny there, honest.   (Do you think she bought that?) Joe F.

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Dang Wayne, I might try that place myself.   (Now where can I leave the kids?   Say, how may bedrooms ya got?  <g) Joe F.

Joe, we’ll drop your kids at my place.  We’ll stock the fridge with pizza and Coke.  We have cable and a VCR.  The gutters need cleaning, the garden needs weeding, and the grass needs mowing.  Meadow Lane Lodge would be a great weekend getaway.  You bring the Special Edition Wild Turkey and I’ll bring the Macallan. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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Joe, I have a GREAT idea!!  Come on down and pick up Lenny Young on the way.  We’ll head over to the Vally and fish our way up north toward Maryland. At the end of the day we’ll lay over in Berkley Springs WVa. Just south of town on 522 (north bound side of the road) is Bambi’s Massage.  The three of us will pile up in there, drink some Scotch, smoke some cigars, and have ol’e Bambi give us a nice relaxing rub- down.  In the meantime, we’ll give Monica a $10 gift certificate to Potomac Mills Outlet Mall, it’s the least we can do since she is footing the bill for our "fishing" trip!  We’ll be back Sunday evening, fished out and totally relaxed! Whadda’ya say guys!! — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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Again, what is a getaway to you (or anyone besides the man in question) is not relevant.

Actually, I thought that was precisely the question:  "I would like to give him a gift of a fly fishing weekend getaway.   Anyone have any suggestions?" I hadn’t meant to whiz in anyone’s Wheaties; just trying to be helpful. Sorry if I offended. I don’t mean this snidely, but I’d be damned if someone is going to tell me how or where to teach my kids, and I extend the same courtesy to others. I do agree, however, that for most, it could be an issue.

I understand your point; and perhaps a weekend teaching his kids to flyfish would be the ideal fly fishing weekend getaway for him.   It would be a fine weekend activity for me as well, just not a "getaway". PS: Try setting your length to 80 characters.  I don’t how to do it in OE 5.0, but I’m sure you can.

It’s set to wrap outgoing messages at 76 characters.   Why? Joe F.

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In article Now, Now, gentlemen.(ladies?)….  I justed wanted some

suggestions. Hey! Watch your language!  There are no gentlemen here!  It’s virtually impossible to ask for suggestions here without an argument starting.  Don’t take it personally – it’s entertainment for some of us.  Looks like you have several suggestions to consider in any case * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Again, what is a getaway to you (or anyone besides the man in question) is not relevant. Actually, I thought that was precisely the question:  "I would like to give him a gift of a fly fishing weekend getaway.   Anyone have any suggestions?" I hadn’t meant to whiz in anyone’s Wheaties; just trying to be helpful. Sorry if I offended.

No offense taken, and I hope the same, but I guess it hit me strangely for some reason.  I still believe if a kid is old enough to show genuine interest, they are old enough to start to learn, but JMO. I don’t mean this snidely, but I’d be damned if someone is going to tell me how or where to teach my kids, and I extend the same courtesy to others. I do agree, however, that for most, it could be an issue. I understand your point; and perhaps a weekend teaching his kids to flyfish would be the ideal fly fishing weekend getaway for him.   It would be a fine weekend activity for me as well, just not a "getaway". PS: Try setting your length to 80 characters.  I don’t how to do it in OE 5.0, but I’m sure you can. It’s set to wrap outgoing messages at 76 characters.   Why?

Well, it originally had to do with early terminals (and tins can and string…hey, you old farts, chime on in…<G), but now most people use things that can easily handle at least 80 characters, and I’ve found it seems to be the optimum setting as I never get that annoying "wrap" of a word or two.  I’ve seen varying recommendations, so YMMV. Joe F.

TC, R

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Now, Now, gentlemen.(ladies?)….  I justed wanted some suggestions. Please don’t misunderstand me, I Want him to getaway!!!  I really don’t want to go.  I would rather send him and a friend.  He would rather take a family trip.  I’m looking for something that would allow the kids and I to do something entertaining while he does his thing and that’s if he prefers to have us along.  I’m sorry, but I hate fishing. But I like to bike ride, walk, swim, and hike. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My husband loves to fish and recently mentioned about a friend who received a gift to go fly fishing for the weekend.  As father day is coming (and he is such a good father), I would like to give him a gift of a fly fishing weekend getaway. Anyone have any suggestions?  We live in the Washington DC area and don’t want to travel to far (maybe to PA).  He may want the whole family to go, so it must be a kid friendly place.  (two boys 3 and 5). Also, I don’t know the first thing about fly fishing (or fishing period) and have no idea what equipment he would need. P.S.  after reading some of the postings, I hope that only those that can honestly help me reply to this posting. Peace Monica

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P.S.  after reading some of the postings, I hope that only those that can honestly help me reply to this posting.

Well, they say hope springs eternal.  Just curious; when you go to the reference library do you ask them to keep all the red books covered? Wolfgang who can help….honestly….but declines, thank you.

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(snip)

When I "get away" I enjoy taking my family.  I don’t get away from them.  I get away from my job, the city, and all of the stuff I have to do every day.  When I get away I love to take my family because I love my family. Jeff, is it hard to think that some men want to be with their family? — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html "Wilderness needs no defense, only more defenders"                             quote by Edward Abbey Before you buy.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Now, Now, gentlemen.(ladies?)….  I justed wanted some suggestions. Please don’t misunderstand me, I Want him to getaway!!!  I really don’t want to go.  I would rather send him and a friend.  He would rather take a family trip.  I’m looking for something that would allow the kids and I to do something entertaining while he does his thing and that’s if he prefers to have us along.  I’m sorry, but I hate fishing. But I like to bike ride, walk, swim, and hike. message My husband loves to fish and recently mentioned about a friend who received a gift to go fly fishing for the weekend.  As father day is coming (and he is such a good father), I would like to give him a gift of a fly fishing weekend getaway. Anyone have any suggestions?  We live in the Washington DC area and don’t want to travel to far (maybe to PA).  He may want the whole family to go, so it must be a kid friendly place.  (two boys 3 and 5). Also, I don’t know the first thing about fly fishing (or fishing period) and have no idea what equipment he would need. P.S.  after reading some of the postings, I hope that only those that can honestly help me reply to this posting. Peace Monica

Sounds like you have a good man.  It also sounds as though you are a loving wife.  It’s nice to see a family like this.  :-) — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html "Wilderness needs no defense, only more defenders"                             quote by Edward Abbey Before you buy.

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Now, Now, gentlemen.(ladies?)….  I justed wanted some suggestions. Please don’t misunderstand me, I Want him to getaway!!!  I really don’t want to go.  I would rather send him and a friend.  He would rather take a family trip.  I’m looking for something that would allow the kids and I to do something entertaining while he does his thing and that’s if he prefers to have us along.  I’m sorry, but I hate fishing. But I like to bike ride, walk, swim, and hike.

Why be sorry?  That’s why there is chocolate and vanilla.  It sounded like Wayne Hart provided an excellent suggestion, and I’m sure your situation is not unique, so I’m sure you’ll find a happy blend if you decide (or forced…<G) to go.  For what it’s worth, fly fishing is generally done in some rather nice locations, and maybe you can tag along.  Also, for what it’s worth, if this is his first time with a fly rod, it is likely that neither of you will have a lot of fish to deal with…<G.  Further, my SO hated fishing until she tried it, so if you’ve never tried it, you never know…of course, I’ve never tried a fertilizer malt, so I don’t know if I’d like ‘em.  However, I do know I’m not going to find out. As to the thread, I doubt asking for the time here would get a simple answer, what with time zones, philosophy, analog v. digital, automatic, self-winding, and quartz, etc.  In other words, don’t sweat it, and in fact, it is what makes ROFF, well, ROFF. TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My husband loves to fish and recently mentioned about a friend who received a gift to go fly fishing for the weekend.  As father day is coming (and he is such a good father), I would like to give him a gift of a fly fishing weekend getaway. Anyone have any suggestions?  We live in the Washington DC area and don’t want to travel to far (maybe to PA).  He may want the whole family to go, so it must be a kid friendly place.  (two boys 3 and 5). Also, I don’t know the first thing about fly fishing (or fishing period) and have no idea what equipment he would need. P.S.  after reading some of the postings, I hope that only those that can honestly help me reply to this posting. Peace Monica

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My husband loves to fish and recently mentioned about a friend who received a gift to go fly fishing for the weekend.  As father day is coming (and he is such a good father), I would like to give him a gift of a fly fishing weekend getaway. Anyone have any suggestions?  We live in the Washington DC area and don’t want to travel to far (maybe to PA).  He may want the whole family to go, so it must be a kid friendly place.  (two boys 3 and 5). Also, I don’t know the first thing about fly fishing (or fishing period) and have no idea what equipment he would need.

I’ve given this some deep and honest thought, and I think you need to reconsider.   If it is to be a true "getaway", then he should be able to get away.   I’m sure you love him and he loves you; but no offense, "getaway" means away from you and the kids.   Otherwise, he’s not getting away, he’s just taking it with him somewhere else. Firstly, the 3 and 5 year old can’t fly fish and shouldn’t be anywhere near where sharp hooks are flying through the air.   Secondly, if your husband will be learning this for the first time, his stress level will be greatly reduced if he isn’t worrying about where else he should be or what else he should be doing or where are the kids.   Just cut him loose for the weekend and don’t expect to see him until Sunday night.   He’ll love it.   Trust me. Alternatively (and this is a good idea too), stash the kids, go with him, and learn fly fishing yourself.   You may love it and you may be a natural; there’s nothing inherently macho about it.   It’s graceful, it’s beautiful, it’s relaxing.   Giving your husband a good fishing "buddy" would be a great gift. Sorry, but I don’t see the kids fitting into this at their age.   If he really wants to fly fish, great; but if it’s just a "load the Evian into the Lexus and head over to the Orvis store because it’s kind of cool and Robert Redford made a movie about it" kind of thing; I’d say just go to Great Adventure.   It’ll cost less and everybody will have more fun. One last suggestion (I’m on a roll.)   Does it have to be fly fishing? You’re quite close to the Chesapeake, and it’s possible (depending on your budget) to charter a boat for a day of fishing on the Bay (out of Annapolis or Kent Island).   Everybody could go, you’ll probably have fun and catch a lot of fish, and you won’t need to buy anything new. P.S.  after reading some of the postings, I hope that only those that can honestly help me reply to this posting.

That would certainly be a first. Good luck, Joe F.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Firstly, the 3 and 5 year old can’t fly fish and shouldn’t be anywhere near where sharp hooks are flying through the air. Um, no.  As I’m sure you’ll soon discover, a 5 Y.O. can fish, although he might not have an interest.  A 3 YO is admittedly a little young, but if so disposed, he can watch and enjoy.  Of course, this depends on the boys, but as a blanket statement, you are flat wrong.  As to flying hooks, jeez, they are not machettes, and, likely, ya gonna get hooked sooner or later, anyway. It may be possible to teach a 5-yr.-old boy to fly fish; but if you try, it will be far from a "fly fishing getaway" for you, which I presumed was the point of the gift. Joe F.

Again, what is a getaway to you (or anyone besides the man in question) is not relevant.  I don’t mean this snidely, but I’d be damned if someone is going to tell me how or where to teach my kids, and I extend the same courtesy to others. I do agree, however, that for most, it could be an issue. As to age, I would offer it could be easier to teach an interested 5 yo (boy or girl) as they don’t have learned habits, theories, and likely, haven’t read every word Lefty Kreh has written.  They just want to learn to do it. TC, R PS: Try setting your length to 80 characters.  I don’t how to do it in OE 5.0, but I’m sure you can.  HTH?   R

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Monica, try Meadow Lane Lodge in Warm Springs VA.  Nice country Inn with 2 miles of private Jackson River trout water.  Beautiful place, kid friendly, stuff to do at the Inn and surroundings.  Makes a romantic getaway if you have a baby-sitter.  Check out the URL http://www.meadowlanelodge.com/

Dang Wayne, I might try that place myself.   (Now where can I leave the kids?   Say, how may bedrooms ya got?  <g) Joe F.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My husband loves to fish and recently mentioned about a friend who received a gift to go fly fishing for the weekend.  As father day is coming (and he is such a good father), I would like to give him a gift of a fly fishing weekend getaway. Anyone have any suggestions?  We live in the Washington DC area and don’t want to travel to far (maybe to PA).  He may want the whole family to go, so it must be a kid friendly place.  (two boys 3 and 5). Also, I don’t know the first thing about fly fishing (or fishing period) and have no idea what equipment he would need. I’ve given this some deep and honest thought, and I think you need to reconsider.   If it is to be a true "getaway", then he should be able to get away.   I’m sure you love him and he loves you; but no offense, "getaway" means away from you and the kids.   Otherwise, he’s not getting away, he’s just taking it with him somewhere else. Firstly, the 3 and 5 year old can’t fly fish and shouldn’t be anywhere near where sharp hooks are flying through the air.  

Um, no.  As I’m sure you’ll soon discover, a 5 Y.O. can fish, although he might not have an interest.  A 3 YO is admittedly a little young, but if so disposed, he can watch and enjoy.  Of course, this depends on the boys, but as a blanket statement, you are flat wrong.  As to flying hooks, jeez, they are not machettes, and, likely, ya gonna get hooked sooner or later, anyway. Secondly, if your husband will be learning this for the first time, his stress level will be greatly reduced if he isn’t worrying about where else he should be or what else he should be doing or where are the kids.   Just cut him loose for the weekend and don’t expect to see him until Sunday night.   He’ll love it.   Trust me.

Well, now here you _may_ have something here, but you sure are making a lot of decisions for someone else.  Do you know these people?  If so, why are you posting instead of just calling and chatting about it.  As I don’t know him, I won’t presume he doesn’t enjoy learning _with_ his family.  I, for one, actually like doing such things with kids.  They aren’t jaded, and they don’t presume a whole lot…plus, they leave my Scotch the hell alone, never need to bum tobacco products, and are useful for errands. Alternatively (and this is a good idea too), stash the kids, go with him, and learn fly fishing yourself.   You may love it and you may be a natural; there’s nothing inherently macho about it.   It’s graceful, it’s beautiful, it’s relaxing.   Giving your husband a good fishing "buddy" would be a great gift. Sorry, but I don’t see the kids fitting into this at their age.   If he really wants to fly fish, great; but if it’s just a "load the Evian into the Lexus and head over to the Orvis store because it’s kind of cool and Robert Redford made a movie about it" kind of thing; I’d say just go to Great Adventure.   It’ll cost less and everybody will have more fun.

I’ll just let this stand (or rather, wobble) on its own… One last suggestion (I’m on a roll.)   Does it have to be fly fishing? You’re quite close to the Chesapeake, and it’s possible (depending on your budget) to charter a boat for a day of fishing on the Bay (out of Annapolis or Kent Island).   Everybody could go, you’ll probably have fun and catch a lot of fish, and you won’t need to buy anything new.

Hey, so am I…when you’re finsihed wizzing in this lady’s Wheaties, why not just plan the trip, send them a schedule and timetable (and your credit card), and be done with it. As to the original post, Monica: I don’t presume to know you, your husband, or boys, and Joe’s point regarding your husband learning, etc., is valid.  As to the safety of the boys, there is normally no danger associated with fly fishing common sense won’t handle. (Bears Au Poivre, Cottonmouthed Water Rattlers with Uzis, Molotov UPS trucks, and half-dressed, fully hung over ROFFians excluded).  If he doesn’t reply, send an is generally helpful without being a jerk, unlike much of the rest of us… HTH? TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – P.S.  after reading some of the postings, I hope that only those that can honestly help me reply to this posting. That would certainly be a first. Good luck, Joe F.

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"Ken Fortenberry" wrote… There are prodigies in everything I suppose, but I wouldn’t try to teach flyfishing to any child under the age of 10 or 11. I’m inclined to agree with Ken. My almost-three year old loves to try to cast a fly rod on the front lawn, generally making a rat’s nest out of the line–but despite her apparent interest it’s going to be several years until I’d feel safe putting a hook on. –Steve

Steve, If it matters, my mother did the same thing, and was a (unaged) casting champion by 13 or 14. She, and then I started with a little 6 footer and a 1494 Medalist about 4 or 5, and at least a dozen other similarly-aged kids did the same with the same rod – we still have it.   I don’t know your daughter, but I’ve seen 40 year-olds do worse than your description of her, and give up in a temper tantrum.  May I suggest tying her some bright whiffs (so she can track them), setting a hula hoop out and letting her go as she will, instructing if you see any bad habits forming?  If you need a few bright tips and hair, I’ll be happy to drop some in the mail. HTH? TC, R

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"Ken Fortenberry" wrote… There are prodigies in everything I suppose, but I wouldn’t try to teach flyfishing to any child under the age of 10 or 11.

I’m inclined to agree with Ken. My almost-three year old loves to try to cast a fly rod on the front lawn, generally making a rat’s nest out of the line–but despite her apparent interest it’s going to be several years until I’d feel safe putting a hook on. –Steve

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Firstly, the 3 and 5 year old can’t fly fish and shouldn’t be anywhere near where sharp hooks are flying through the air. Um, no.  As I’m sure you’ll soon discover, a 5 Y.O. can fish, although he might not have an interest.  A 3 YO is admittedly a little young, but if so disposed, he can watch and enjoy.  Of course, this depends on the boys, but as a blanket statement, you are flat wrong.  As to flying hooks, jeez, they are not machettes, and, likely, ya gonna get hooked sooner or later, anyway.

It may be possible to teach a 5-yr.-old boy to fly fish; but if you try, it will be far from a "fly fishing getaway" for you, which I presumed was the point of the gift. Joe F.

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I learned to fly fish when I was 4.  I received my first rod when I was 5. Perhaps 3 is a bit too young, but 5 certainly is not.

There are prodigies in everything I suppose, but I wouldn’t try to teach flyfishing to any child under the age of 10 or 11. — Ken Fortenberry

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Joe: The next time my wife is looking for ideas for my birthday can I have her contact you for suggestions? –Stan I’ve given this some deep and honest thought, and I think you need to reconsider.   If it is to be a true "getaway", then he should be able to get away.   I’m sure you love him and he loves you; but no offense, "getaway" means away from you and the kids.   Otherwise, he’s not getting away, he’s just taking it with him somewhere else.

<and lots of excellent cetera snipped

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Firstly, the 3 and 5 year old can’t fly fish and shouldn’t be anywhere near where sharp hooks are flying through the air.

I learned to fly fish when I was 4.  I received my first rod when I was 5. Perhaps 3 is a bit too young, but 5 certainly is not.

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My husband loves to fish and recently mentioned about a friend who received a gift to go fly fishing for the weekend.  As father day is coming (and he is such a good father), I would like to give him a gift of a fly fishing weekend getaway. Anyone have any suggestions? …

http://www.coldspringanglers.com/guides.html — Ken Fortenberry

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My husband loves to fish and recently mentioned about a friend who received a gift to go fly fishing for the weekend.  As father day is coming (and he is such a good father), I would like to give him a gift of a fly fishing weekend getaway. Anyone have any suggestions?  We live in the Washington DC area and don’t want to travel to far (maybe to PA).  He may want the whole family to go, so it must be a kid friendly place.  (two boys 3 and 5). Also, I don’t know the first thing about fly fishing (or fishing period) and have no idea what equipment he would need. P.S.  after reading some of the postings, I hope that only those that can honestly help me reply to this posting. Peace Monica

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My husband loves to fish and recently mentioned about a friend who received a gift to go fly fishing for the weekend.  As father day is coming (and he is such a good father), I would like to give him a gift of a fly fishing weekend getaway. Anyone have any suggestions?  We live in the Washington DC area and don’t want to travel to far (maybe to PA).  He may want the whole family to go, so it must be a kid friendly place.  (two boys 3 and 5). Also, I don’t know the first thing about fly fishing (or fishing period) and have no idea what equipment he would need. P.S.  after reading some of the postings, I hope that only those that can honestly help me reply to this posting. Peace Monica

Monica, try Meadow Lane Lodge in Warm Springs VA.  Nice country Inn with 2 miles of private Jackson River trout water.  Beautiful place, kid friendly, stuff to do at the Inn and surroundings.  Makes a romantic getaway if you have a baby-sitter.  Check out the URL http://www.meadowlanelodge.com/ For a "further afield" fly-fishing only place try West Branch Anglers along the PA-NY border on the West Branch of the Deleware.  Not very kid-friendly but has a great restaurant and the drift boat trips are great fishing if you catch the water levels right.  I think we have a poster here who guides in the area. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – says… : Alagnak 1998 I will not be jealous. I will not be jealous. I will not be jealous. JonCook. Easier for you to say than I! (I *am* jealous. I AM jealous. I am SOOOOO jealous! ;^) Great story, Andrew! /daytripper I agree, i’m so damn jealous my skin’s a turnin’ green. great report…. –Wataugan Walt

I betcha he never left his house.  I betcha he invented all of this just to piss us off. . . .    It’s working, it’s working, I’m pissed.   Great trip, Andrew.  We all desreve at least one of these per lifetime. Peter Peter        Merry Christmas

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I betcha he never left his house.  I betcha he invented all of this just to piss us off. . . .    It’s working, it’s working, I’m pissed.   Great trip, Andrew.  We all desreve at least one of these per lifetime. Peter

I just want to say, right here, right now, that I have the best wife in the world, not least because she lets me do this more than once in a lifetime.   Now, about that "Betcha he never left the house" stuff, try these on for size…  http://www.aa.net/~andrewbr/alagnak/ The jpegs are a little big, so it’s kinda slow to load, but it’ll give you a nice sense of what the trip was like.   Lest any of you think this was some big bucks, Gucci trip,  this cost us less than $600/apiece, not counting airfare to King Salmon and malt beverages.  Start saving your pennies, men. — Andrew Brunette

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I just want to say, right here, right now, that I have the best wife in the world, not least because she lets me do this more than once in a lifetime.   Now, about that "Betcha he never left the house" stuff, try these on for size…  http://www.aa.net/~andrewbr/alagnak/ The jpegs are a little big, so it’s kinda slow to load, but it’ll give you a nice sense of what the trip was like.   Lest any of you think this was some big bucks, Gucci trip,  this cost us less than $600/apiece, not counting airfare to King Salmon and malt beverages.  Start saving your pennies, men. — Andrew Brunette

Andrew Nice site and pix.  Actually this is a great idea as we all like to talk about our trips and stuff.  Building a simple site combines the pix with the text for a better story.   Looks like some of us (me) will have to brush up on our HTML skills. Peter Peter        Merry Christmas

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: : Now, about that "Betcha he never left the house" stuff, try these on for : size…  http://www.aa.net/~andrewbr/alagnak/ Andrew, please let me know where you bought those pictures, I’d like to see if they’ll put together a "saltwater flats" trip for me…

Rite-Aid photo counter.  They have the plastic bushes, blow up fish, everything.  They even told me, "you don’t look like a good enough fisherman to use the big fish dummies, use these middlesized ones instead."   Didn’t even charge me more than the normal 6.95 a roll for the Pix.  Is it great living in the age of the service economy or what? — Andrew Brunette

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Alagnak 1998 It was a hot, buggy afternoon when we landed in King Salmon.  One of our party was already missing, having been marooned in a hostile check-in line in Anchorage.  We had stopped there to see some friends, pick up licenses and stimulate the late summer business of the local fly shop economy.  

Hi Andrew, This reminded me of my first AK trip. I floated the Togiak River with Bus Bergman, Jim and Kitty Vincent (Rio Line Company) and my cousin in 1976. It was a wonderful trip and was the real AK experience. Float trips are great. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

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says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : Alagnak 1998 I will not be jealous. I will not be jealous. I will not be jealous. JonCook. Easier for you to say than I! (I *am* jealous. I AM jealous. I am SOOOOO jealous! ;^) Great story, Andrew! /daytripper

I agree, i’m so damn jealous my skin’s a turnin’ green. great report…. –Wataugan Walt

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Great report Andrew … thanks for the post.

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: Alagnak 1998 I will not be jealous. I will not be jealous. I will not be jealous. JonCook.

Easier for you to say than I! (I *am* jealous. I AM jealous. I am SOOOOO jealous! ;^) Great story, Andrew! /daytripper

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Great report – thanks. Thomas Gilg

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: Alagnak 1998 I will not be jealous. I will not be jealous. I will not be jealous. JonCook.

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Alagnak 1998 It was a hot, buggy afternoon when we landed in King Salmon.  One of our party was already missing, having been marooned in a hostile check-in line in Anchorage.  We had stopped there to see some friends, pick up licenses and stimulate the late summer business of the local fly shop economy.   After trying to locate the bush carrier that we were to use, we found out that we had a couple of hours to kill, so while waiting for Dave, we loaded up on the supplies that were too heavy to fly in from Seattle, notably Milwaukee

Question:

[deleted] Dont kid your self my FFing kin Peta hates you catch and release types as much as the tournament pros. But they have no defensible position against subsistence fishing or hunting or these as a component of wildlife management. Man shall have dominion over the beasts.

True, but they do have money and money buys influence and power. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Marty P.E.T.A   People for the Ethical Termination of Antihunters If we are not supposed to eat animals…then why are they made out of meat?

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– — TimW Halfordian Golfer [deleted] Dont kid your self my FFing kin Peta hates you catch and release types as much as the tournament pros. But they have no defensible position against subsistence fishing or hunting or these as a component of wildlife management. Man shall have dominion over the beasts. True, but they do have money and money buys influence and power.

They do not have as much money as The Church does and that is where I’ll take the case when I am banned from harvesting God’s bounty. TimW

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Man didn’t make it to the top of the food chain to eat grass!!!!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [deleted] Dont kid your self my FFing kin Peta hates you catch and release types as much as the tournament pros. But they have no defensible position against subsistence fishing or hunting or these as a component of wildlife management. Man shall have dominion over the beasts. True, but they do have money and money buys influence and power. — TimW Halfordian Golfer Marty P.E.T.A   People for the Ethical Termination of Antihunters If we are not supposed to eat animals…then why are they made out of meat?

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They do not have as much money as The Church does and that is where I’ll take the case when I am banned from harvesting God’s bounty.

So the Religious Right takes on the AR Wacko’s? Here’s a preview: RR: Man was given dominion over the beasts of the field,        and the birds of the air, and of the fish that swim in the        sea.  They’re ours to use for our benefit, by authority        of Holy Writ. AR: Didn’t someone say, "Thou shalt not kill?".  Nothing was        said about which species, was it?  Huh?  Huh? RR: Don’t get smart with me, tofu-breath!  May I point out that        mankind was cast out of the Garden for eating, not meat,        but an APPLE! AR: Hey, who died and made you God?!?  I don’t have to take that        kind of crap from any wild-eyed, Bible-quotin’ Bambi-blaster! RR: Defiler of Gods Word! AR:  Devourer of the innocent! RR:  Tofu-sucking worm!! AR:  Meat-eating carnivore!! RR:  Slime!!! AR:  Pig!!! <sound of fisticuffs.  Divers alarums and excursions I’ll bring the popcorn.  :-) — Bob Jarvis Mail address hacked to foil spammers!

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Hello, Under "Fishin’ is Fishin’ " this suggestion, that I could tell, brought no support, so I’m trying it under this heading:  "Support each other." Would anybody else care to urge that, in this new year, we all support fish, fishing, and. . .each other?  Your way, his way, her way, their way–of fishing?  Isn’t it all great?  Isn’t it all, after all, OUR WAY? Regards, Jess Thompson

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Jesse: fishin’ is fishin’ and I agree we should support each other even when we disagree ;^). Ralph H – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hello, Under "Fishin’ is Fishin’ " this suggestion, that I could tell, brought no support, so I’m trying it under this heading:  "Support each other." Would anybody else care to urge that, in this new year, we all support fish, fishing, and. . .each other?  Your way, his way, her way, their way–of fishing?  Isn’t it all great?  Isn’t it all, after all, OUR WAY? Regards, Jess Thompson

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Great sentiment but it doesn’t generate much interaction or reaction.  It’s just like the news on TV or in the papers, never any good news like how someone saved another persons life, how a policeman came to the aid of a harrassed citizen, how a ghetto kid scored the highest on his SATs etc.  All we get is bad news & the more sensational the better.  It seems that good news just bores people. Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, Under "Fishin’ is Fishin’ " this suggestion, that I could tell, brought no support, so I’m trying it under this heading:  "Support each other." Would anybody else care to urge that, in this new year, we all support fish, fishing, and. . .each other?  Your way, his way, her way, their way–of fishing?  Isn’t it all great?  Isn’t it all, after all, OUR WAY? Regards, Jess Thompson

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Hello, Under "Fishin’ is Fishin’ " this suggestion, that I could tell, brought no support, so I’m trying it under this heading:  "Support each other."

Sorry, but it’s just too sappy a subject to get much followup, IMO. I mean, really, where do you want it to go ? "I love you Ralph !" "I love you too Moe !" Conflict is *good*, man, it preceeds real progress. Would anybody else care to urge that, in this new year, we all support fish, fishing, and. . .each other?  Your way, his way, her way, their way–of fishing?  Isn’t it all great?  Isn’t it all, after all, OUR WAY?

No… No way in hell will I ever support: 1) Bassmasters 2) Jackson Hole One Fly (or any fishing competition, with the exception of the Martha’s Vineyard Derby) 3) Fern Bar fly shops 4) Wet Golfing 5) Fishermen that do not like to eat fish — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No… No way in hell will I ever support: 1) Bassmasters 2) Jackson Hole One Fly (or any fishing competition, with the exception of the Martha’s Vineyard Derby) 3) Fern Bar fly shops 4) Wet Golfing 5) Fishermen that do not like to eat fish — TimW Halfordian Golfer

I regard to point #5. I’m allergic to fish; does that count? John Knight Sydney FlyRodders’

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No… No way in hell will I ever support: 1) Bassmasters 2) Jackson Hole One Fly (or any fishing competition, with the exception of the Martha’s Vineyard Derby) 3) Fern Bar fly shops 4) Wet Golfing 5) Fishermen that do not like to eat fish — TimW Halfordian Golfer

I do so want you to like me.  I’m safe on 1 to 4 but do I qualify for point 5 if I went to the Thistle yesterday and had fish & chips with a pint of Tartan? Peter

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Absolutely support each other on the water.  Share the pop or beer, give away patterns that are working, occaisionally tell of a relatively well known spot that is fishing well.         But in here, let the melting and melding of ideas and emotion flow freely.  The back and forth of opposing views is a big part of a news group like this.  If this was nothing more than the exchange of information it would lose it’s appeal for me – probably alot of us. JE

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I do so want you to like me.  I’m safe on 1 to 4 but do I qualify for point 5 if I went to the Thistle yesterday and had fish & chips with a pint of Tartan?

Do you practice Zero Retention for Cod ? — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I do so want you to like me.  I’m safe on 1 to 4 but do I qualify for point 5 if I went to the Thistle yesterday and had fish & chips with a pint of Tartan? Do you practice Zero Retention for Cod ? — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Tim Only after a bowel movement. Peter

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Amongst our fellow anglers we may quarrel and disagree at length.  But when it comes to animal rights types (PETA, fund for animals, Pieces etc.) we must stand with the worm dunker and the Bassmaster or shurly we will all fall.  Dont kid your self my FFing kin Peta hates you catch and release types as much as the tournament pros.     Hello, Under "Fishin’ is Fishin’ " this suggestion, that I could tell, brought no support, so I’m trying it under this heading:  "Support each other."

snip

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[deleted] Dont kid your self my FFing kin Peta hates you catch and release types as much as the tournament pros.

But they have no defensible position against subsistence fishing or hunting or these as a component of wildlife management. Man shall have dominion over the beasts. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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Tim W. wrote But they have no defensible position against subsistence fishing or hunting or these as a component of wildlife management.

they dont need a defensible position, there nuts! They think everyone should live a strict vegan lifestyle. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Man shall have dominion over the beasts. Amen. — <snip

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i’m searching for a flyfishing desination that offers opportunity for large trout and stuff thats nearby for family to do while i fish. please email me with any idea you may have. thanks, mp Dear mp, You might consider the Jackson, Wyoming area. There are locations for larger trout and plenty of things to do for the rest of the family. — Bruce E. James, Webmaster Jack Dennis Outdoor Shop http://www.jacksonwy.com/jackdennis/

It depends where you want to go.  Ennis MT has a number of family recreation spots available while you fish the Madison River for big brown trout.  The family can visit Virginia City, MT, a turn of the century restoration; Lewis & Clark Caverns, a wonderful cave complex with tours; Yellowstone, which is about an hour away; etc.

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For my money and time, I’d fish the Green downstream from the Flaming Gorge damn in Utah. I fished there in May and July and had my best fishing experience there. Big and plentiful fish. Jerry G.

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i’m searching for a flyfishing desination that offers opportunity for large trout and stuff thats nearby for family to do while i fish. please email me with any idea you may have. thanks, mp

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This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit very good destinations are always depending on the season. Scotland (U.K.) has some magnificant flyfish rivers. Check out the Spey river in june or july …or the Tweed, Tay and Nith in the autumn. D.de Jong Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for "Drs. D. de Jong" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin:          vcard fn:             "Drs. D. de Jong" n:              ;"Drs. D. de Jong" x-mozilla-cpt:  ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE end:            vcard

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Please don’t feed the this monster of a thread.  Mr. Wieser is just waiting to pounce.  Check out his page, wage legal war with him via. e-mail, but please, we beg of you, don’t get him started on r.b.p… – Bill Herring – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Scott Weiser Wrote Irrelevant. If you float through private property without permission, you are trespassing.  There are only two navigable waters in Colorado, and the Cache La Poudre is not one of them. That is absolutely untrue.  That river gets "navigated" every year by hundreds if not thousands of people.  Stating that boaters are trespassing is like saying the folks who walk down the sidewalk in your front yard are trespassing–blatantly false.  Actually they probably cross the street in front of your house to avoid the possibility of armed conflict with a maniac.  

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Many boaters have a bad habit of trashing the shoreline and than loudly proclaiming their rights to continue to navigate.

I must rise in protest! While it no doubt happens on rare occasion, I have NEVER seen a boater trash a shoreline ( I do not regard foot and butt prints as "trashing", and that’s about all we might leave behind)

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Many boaters have a bad habit of trashing the shoreline

I don’t any who trash the shoreline, matter of fact most I know stay in their boats.  When I talked to a Ranger down on the Ark last year, he said boaters were pretty good, almost all the trash he picked up was fishing trash.  Since this issue came up, I’ve checked places like Sunshine in the Royal Gorge, the scouts and put-in at Gore, and other high traffic areas everytime I’m there, and there has never been anything in the way of trash. Matter of fact I challenge you or anyone to show me a place that is dominated by boaters, and is trashed out (at least in Colorado). –Chris

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While land owners may own the land and riparian rights to the waters bottom, they do not in fact, own the water itself and I’m almost positive that any river can be "navigated" through private property.  It would certainly be nice to have the owners permission to avoid any misunderstandings and asking in advance could only help relations between the land owner and boaters.  Regardless of the legal issue here, I think I’d be inclined to opt for not trespassing if that’s what the land owner wished.  I can imagine if there was a pristine river running across my land I’d not want a bunch of canoes and kayaks traversing it every day. Many boaters have a bad habit of trashing the shoreline and than loudly proclaiming their rights to continue to navigate.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Scott Weiser Wrote Irrelevant. If you float through private property without permission, you are trespassing.  There are only two navigable waters in Colorado, and the Cache La Poudre is not one of them. That is absolutely untrue.  That river gets "navigated" every year by hundreds if not thousands of people.  Stating that boaters are trespassing is like saying the folks who walk down the sidewalk in your front yard are trespassing–blatantly false.  Actually they probably cross the street in front of your house to avoid the possibility of armed conflict with a maniac.   tdq

Yesssss!  And SET the hook!  Now, let the little bugger run till he tires and reel him in… Sorry, you are quite wrong.  Floating through private property in Colorado without the permission of the landowner is a criminal trespass.  Just because people get away with it doesn’t make it legal. You might want to check out my website for a discussion of this issue. http://spot.Colorado.EDU/~weisers I guess it’s time for yet another round of this ongoing discussion.   Let the games begin! — Regards, Scott Weiser ****** "I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend upon my friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" ****** The opinions expressed are my own.  If I were a lawyer, you’d be paying big bucks for this.  All complaints should be Copyright 1996 by Scott Weiser All rights of reproduction or distribution are retained by the author. PGP 2.62 public key fingerprint: A6 BD 79 21 A4 24 7B 10  F1 4C 2E BF D1 40 2A 0A

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. . . what’s concensus for fisher-paddler etiquette?

Well, we’re both very polite to each other while we trespass along stream banks. — Richard Culpeper "Hour after hour, day after day, far from sight of shore, We laughed and sang and slept under the hot sun on the northern ocean, Wanting never to return."         — Kimosippi ‘95 —

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. . . what’s concensus for fisher-paddler etiquette? Well, we’re both very polite to each other while we trespass along stream banks. — Richard Culpeper "Hour after hour, day after day, far from sight of shore, We laughed and sang and slept under the hot sun on the northern ocean, Wanting never to return."         — Kimosippi ‘95 —

Paddlers usually aren’t trespassing along stream banks!!!  They are merely in transit from the put-in to the take-out!! terry dq

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I read this on the fly-fishing site and pass it on for comment.  Obviously, the people who slammed his fishing spot were jerks but what’s concensus for fisher-paddler etiquette?   Hi everyone, This weekend I had some bad experiences with kayakers while fishing the Cache La Poudre River in Colorado.  The river was full of kayakers and whitewater rafters.  To my surprise, the whitewater rafters were usually pretty courteous when passing my way (going well away from where I was fishing and coasting by as quietly as possible), but the kayakers were another story – they’d cruise by close to me, splashing each other, talking loudly – one group of four kayakers even stopped in the section I was fishing to perform maneuvers!   I understand that the river is for everyone, and because of that I don’t cast when kayakers are around.  But I’d like to think they could show the same type of courtesy by moving through the area slowly and quietly.

Tom Visnius had a nice take on this issue as part of a story about a high-water descent of the Pigeon River Dries (NC).  The story was printed first in Messing About, the newsletter of the Western Carolina Paddlers.  Tom has since placed it in his homepage.  Read it at http:\www.cs.unca.edu/~johnsonk/club/pigeon.html. — Chris The relevant passage (by Tom Visnius): Phil and I were the only kayakers hanging out at the campground for a little while. As we waited, I asked a fly-fisherman about an etiquette issue that had been bothering me since my trip down Cataloochee Creek. On creeks in the Park, there’s not a lot of room for both hunter and boater, so it is crucial to communicate to each other how you would like to commingle. Does a boater give the fisher a wide berth, thereby floating directly over the trout that he has been sneaking up on? Or does a boater float right next to the fisher’s knees and risk an assault from a surprised sportsman? This result is not unlikely, so regardless of your right-of-way philosophy, it is worth noting that there are many fishermen who visit Smoky Mountain National Park, and boaters should attempt to communicate with them. Then proceed with caution. The fellow I talked to preferred the idea of boaters paddling close to him so as not to spook the trout.

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I fished alot on the Arkansas and Animas river in Colorado.  The Animas is big enough that if your standing a few feet from one shore the rafter can go to the other side.  Most of the time I am nymphing fairly close to where I’m standing.  In the Arkansas case, its a little narrower and sometimes, if I notice them soon enough, I will step out of the water and let the kyaker or rafter float right over, or better yet to the shore side, of where I was standing. They are usually very willing to remove their feet and oars from the water as they pass by.  Most of them are quite willing to accomodate my directions if the water depth is OK. But you run into jerks in any endeavor. I wouldn’t let it ruin my day.   When it does happen I do get a little agitated and probably verbalize it but I try not to let it linger. Bill A.

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People kayak the Big South occasionally, but they have keepers who take them back to the Home directly from the takeout so that they won’t be a danger to society.

I resemble…I mean resent that remark…. –Chris

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – . . . what’s concensus for fisher-paddler etiquette? Well, we’re both very polite to each other while we trespass along stream banks. — Richard Culpeper "Hour after hour, day after day, far from sight of shore, We laughed and sang and slept under the hot sun on the northern ocean, Wanting never to return."         — Kimosippi ‘95 — Paddlers usually aren’t trespassing along stream banks!!!  They are merely in transit from the put-in to the take-out!! terry dq

Irrelevant. If you float through private property without permission, you are trespassing.  There are only two navigable waters in Colorado, and the Cache La Poudre is not one of them. — Regards, Scott Weiser ****** "I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend upon my friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" ****** The opinions expressed are my own.  If I were a lawyer, you’d be paying big bucks for this.  All complaints should be Copyright 1996 by Scott Weiser All rights of reproduction or distribution are retained by the author. PGP 2.62 public key fingerprint: A6 BD 79 21 A4 24 7B 10  F1 4C 2E BF D1 40 2A 0A

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Scott, Do us all a big favor and go crawl back under the rock you’ve been hiding under (or was that bloated mass you were cowering under your mother?). Your recent absence from this newsgroup has been wonderful. If you really were stupid enough to cast toward and snag someone (and from your posts, it seems likely you are), you would be entirely deserving of the beating your pathetic corpse received.

So sorry, I’ll try to interject more often, it certainly spices things up doesn’t it. Like I said, civil is as civil does. I just cast, if you happen to be in the way, too damned bad, you had plenty of time to see where I was fishing and avoid it, or at least do the polite thing and pass quietly behind me so as not to put the fish down for a half hour by your antics. If you act like a jerk, you get treated like a jerk.   — Regards, Scott Weiser ****** "I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend upon my friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" ****** The opinions expressed are my own.  If I were a lawyer, you’d be paying big bucks for this.  All complaints should be Copyright 1996 by Scott Weiser All rights of reproduction or distribution are retained by the author. PGP 2.62 public key fingerprint: A6 BD 79 21 A4 24 7B 10  F1 4C 2E BF D1 40 2A 0A

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. . . what’s concensus for fisher-paddler etiquette? Well, we’re both very polite to each other while we trespass along stream banks.

Er, actually, you are probably trespassing when you are *in* the river, boaters and fisherpersons alike, unless you are on Forest Service land or other public land. — Regards, Scott Weiser ****** "I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend upon my friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" ****** The opinions expressed are my own.  If I were a lawyer, you’d be paying big bucks for this.  All complaints should be Copyright 1996 by Scott Weiser All rights of reproduction or distribution are retained by the author. PGP 2.62 public key fingerprint: A6 BD 79 21 A4 24 7B 10  F1 4C 2E BF D1 40 2A 0A

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Scott Weiser Wrote Irrelevant. If you float through private property without permission, you are trespassing.  There are only two navigable waters in Colorado, and the Cache La Poudre is not one of them.

That is absolutely untrue.  That river gets "navigated" every year by hundreds if not thousands of people.  Stating that boaters are trespassing is like saying the folks who walk down the sidewalk in your front yard are trespassing–blatantly false.  Actually they probably cross the street in front of your house to avoid the possibility of armed conflict with a maniac.   tdq

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I read this on the fly-fishing site and pass it on for comment.  Obviously, the people who slammed his fishing spot were jerks but what’s concensus for fisher-paddler etiquette?   Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Organization: DirecPC   Lines: 23 NNTP-Posting-Host: host-37.customer.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Hi everyone, This weekend I had some bad experiences with kayakers while fishing the Cache La Poudre River in Colorado.  The river was full of kayakers and whitewater rafters.  To my surprise, the whitewater rafters were usually pretty courteous when passing my way (going well away from where I was fishing and coasting by as quietly as possible), but the kayakers were another story – they’d cruise by close to me, splashing each other, talking loudly – one group of four kayakers even stopped in the section I was fishing to perform maneuvers!   I understand that the river is for everyone, and because of that I don’t cast when kayakers are around.  But I’d like to think they could show the same type of courtesy by moving through the area slowly and quietly. I guess the easy solution to my problem is to find a section of the river that is kayaker/rafter free.  Does anyone know of any such section of the Poudre?  How about flyfishing only sections and/or catch and release sections? Any help/comments appreciated!  Thanks for reading this. Mike Stephens

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I read this on the fly-fishing site and pass it on for comment. Obviously, the people who slammed his fishing spot were jerks but what’s concensus for fisher-paddler etiquette?  

I, fortunately, have had better experiences than this, being both a fisherman and a paddler on a river at different times. I think most fishermen & paddlers can peacefully co-exist most of the time. The biggest thing paddlers have to remember is that fish like to hang out in eddies also. Fortunately though, most good paddling areas are too strong to fish effectively. Paddle On… -Tom McIntire

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I read this on the fly-fishing site and pass it on for comment.  Obviously, the people who slammed his fishing spot were jerks but what’s concensus for fisher-paddler etiquette?  

(snip) It sucks. If I were fishing and someone pulled this on me, I’d tie on a #10 weighted Wooly Bugger on 15 lb. test tippet and thwack them smartly on the head.  With any luck, I’d even snag an expensive Goretex jacket and rip a great big hole in it, and maybe them. In fact, I did manage to puncture a polycheapo raft with a drunken lout in it on the Rogue River a couple of weeks ago who did exactly that. When I’m fishing, you’d better be polite, or stay out of range. — Regards, Scott Weiser ****** "I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend upon my friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" ****** The opinions expressed are my own.  If I were a lawyer, you’d be paying big bucks for this.  All complaints should be Copyright 1996 by Scott Weiser All rights of reproduction or distribution are retained by the author. PGP 2.62 public key fingerprint: A6 BD 79 21 A4 24 7B 10  F1 4C 2E BF D1 40 2A 0A

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I read this on the fly-fishing site and pass it on for comment.  Obviously, the people who slammed his fishing spot were jerks but what’s concensus for fisher-paddler etiquette?   (snip) It sucks. If I were fishing and someone pulled this on me, I’d tie on a #10 weighted Wooly Bugger on 15 lb. test tippet and thwack them smartly on the head.  With any luck, I’d even snag an expensive Goretex jacket and rip a great big hole in it, and maybe them. In fact, I did manage to puncture a polycheapo raft with a drunken lout in it on the Rogue River a couple of weeks ago who did exactly that. When I’m fishing, you’d better be polite, or stay out of range. Scott Weiser

I see the hugely entertaining Mr. Wieser has once again blessed our humble piece of bandwidth with his presence. The above sounds like a great idea.  Someone is rude or comes too close, so you try to put a hook in them.  A very civil solution.  Or you could just "shoot to wound".  That’ll teach ‘em! – Bill Herring "Can’t we just all get along?" – Rodney King

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Can anyone tell me if they are happy with Nautiraid? I am thinking of a folding boat purchase but have not heard much about Nautiraid.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I read this on the fly-fishing site and pass it on for comment.  Obviously, the people who slammed his fishing spot were jerks but what’s concensus for fisher-paddler etiquette?   (snip) It sucks. If I were fishing and someone pulled this on me, I’d tie on a #10 weighted Wooly Bugger on 15 lb. test tippet and thwack them smartly on the head.  With any luck, I’d even snag an expensive Goretex jacket and rip a great big hole in it, and maybe them. In fact, I did manage to puncture a polycheapo raft with a drunken lout in it on the Rogue River a couple of weeks ago who did exactly that. When I’m fishing, you’d better be polite, or stay out of range. Scott Weiser I see the hugely entertaining Mr. Wieser has once again blessed our humble piece of bandwidth with his presence. The above sounds like a great idea.  Someone is rude or comes too close, so you try to put a hook in them.  A very civil solution.  Or you could just "shoot to wound".  That’ll teach ‘em!

Hey, *some* people are so dense they require operant conditioning and aversion therapy to get the message. Civil is as civil does. — Regards, Scott Weiser ****** "I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend upon my friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" ****** The opinions expressed are my own.  If I were a lawyer, you’d be paying big bucks for this.  All complaints should be Copyright 1996 by Scott Weiser All rights of reproduction or distribution are retained by the author. PGP 2.62 public key fingerprint: A6 BD 79 21 A4 24 7B 10  F1 4C 2E BF D1 40 2A 0A

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What is a #10 Wooly Bugger?  Sounds like what my brother’s girlfriend used to call his… Whoops!  Sorry, gotta get back to work… Ed

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly This weekend I had some bad experiences with kayakers while fishing the Cache La Poudre River in Colorado.  The river was full of kayakers and whitewater rafters.  To my surprise, the whitewater rafters were usually pretty courteous when passing my way (going well away from where I was fishing and coasting by as quietly as possible), but the kayakers were another story – they’d cruise by close to me, splashing each other, talking loudly – one group of four kayakers even stopped in the section I was fishing to perform maneuvers! My personal opinion is that you should discreetly suggest that they move on…try a subtle suggestion… "GET THE HELL OUTTA MY DRIFT YOU YUPPIE BASTARD OR I’LL CREASE YOUR NOODLE" (Stolen without permission from "Fear of Flyfishing"). TimW (Only kidding, violence is not a good suggestion…now, letting the air out of the tires of their shuttle vehicle, THAT can be VERY effective and satisfying).

My thoughts exactly!  I’ve  had similar problems lately on the small river I fish in southwestern Michigan.  It’s quite popular with tubers.   Right now, the window of opportunity for a flyfisherman is limited to approx. a half hour to an hour before dark.  I was out on Sunday and didn’t see a soul until just before dark.  Guess what?  I didn’t see any other fisherman but two separate groups of tubers floated by just as the fish were getting active.  While on the of the tubers was courteous enough to ask where I was fishing, his partner ignored me and floated right over a rising fish.  Then, the second group floated by a few minutes later and showed no consideration whatsoever.  There’s no way they could have finished their float trip by dark.  They have all damn day to float yet they choose to recreate at dusk showing no respect for anyone else.  It puts evil thoughts in your mind.  Of course, the obligatory floatilla of bobbing beer cans followed in close pursuit. BFisher

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Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly This weekend I had some bad experiences with kayakers while fishing the Cache La Poudre River in Colorado.  The river was full of kayakers and whitewater rafters.  To my surprise, the whitewater rafters were usually pretty courteous when passing my way (going well away from where I was fishing and coasting by as quietly as possible), but the kayakers were another story – they’d cruise by close to me, splashing each other, talking loudly – one group of four kayakers even stopped in the section I was fishing to perform maneuvers!

My personal opinion is that you should discreetly suggest that they move on…try a subtle suggestion… "GET THE HELL OUTTA MY DRIFT YOU YUPPIE BASTARD OR I’LL CREASE YOUR NOODLE" (Stolen without permission from "Fear of Flyfishing"). TimW (Only kidding, violence is not a good suggestion…now, letting the air out of the tires of their shuttle vehicle, THAT can be VERY effective and satisfying).

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(snip) If I were fishing and someone pulled this on me, I’d tie on a #10 weighted Wooly Bugger on 15 lb. test tippet and thwack them smartly on the head.  With any luck, I’d even snag an expensive Goretex jacket and rip a great big hole in it, and maybe them. In fact, I did manage to puncture a polycheapo raft with a drunken lout in it on the Rogue River a couple of weeks ago who did exactly that. When I’m fishing, you’d better be polite, or stay out of range.

Scott, Do us all a big favor and go crawl back under the rock you’ve been hiding under (or was that bloated mass you were cowering under your mother?). Your recent absence from this newsgroup has been wonderful. If you really were stupid enough to cast toward and snag someone (and from your posts, it seems likely you are), you would be entirely deserving of the beating your pathetic corpse received. Regards, Andy The opinions expressed above are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I read this on the fly-fishing site and pass it on for comment.  Obviously, the people who slammed his fishing spot were jerks but what’s concensus for fisher-paddler etiquette?   Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly This weekend I had some bad experiences with kayakers while fishing the Cache La Poudre River in Colorado.  The river was full of kayakers and whitewater rafters.  To my surprise, the whitewater rafters were usually pretty courteous when passing my way (going well away from where I was fishing and coasting by as quietly as possible), but the kayakers were another story – they’d cruise by close to me, splashing each other, talking loudly – one group of four kayakers even stopped in the section I was fishing to perform maneuvers!   I understand that the river is for everyone, and because of that I don’t cast when kayakers are around.  But I’d like to think they could show the same type of courtesy by moving through the area slowly and quietly. I guess the easy solution to my problem is to find a section of the river that is kayaker/rafter free.  Does anyone know of any such section of the Poudre?  How about flyfishing only sections and/or catch and release sections?

I kayak sections of the Poudre below the Narrows regularly.  The water has indeed come down enough so that fishermen (and women) are starting to appear on sections that boaters use.  Earlier in the season, these sections are not really fishable, and much of it still cannot be waded. Commercial rafters on the Poudre usually don’t conflict with fisherpeople because they don’t eddy out very often.  They sail on by _everything_, and to give their customers the most exciting ride, they tend to look for the fastest current and the biggest waves, which will take them away from fisherpeople.  This search for excitement, however, sometimes causes inexperienced guides to flip rafts on otherwise inoccuous sections of the river, and they have been known to literally run over kayakers.  We generally sit in the eddies as they go by because of this. Reasonable kayakers usually stay away from fisherpeople.  The river, after all, is to be shared, and most kayakers do their playing in territory which is not very good for fishing.  Several possiblities for conflict on the Poudre do arise, however: 1.  The Filter Plant run has good holding and wading water and is quite     fishable.  Novice kayakers still use it, though, and they may not     yet be properly "socialized." 2.  The well-known pop-up hole on the Bridges run has an eddy immediately     below it where kayakers wait their turn to attempt enders.  I have     heard that a couple of fishermen have decided that they need to fish     that particular eddy, and they will attempt to drive kayakers away.     Sometimes they will appear when kayakers are there and demand that     they leave.  I have not personally observed this behavior. 3.  I encountered a fisherman at the bottom of PineView Falls who was     casting into an eddy on the far side of the river.  The area is not     wadeable, although the eddy may have held some fish.  The river is     narrow at that point, so the cast was easy, but the presence of his     line all the way across the river created a problem for any kayak or     raft running PineView. Other possibilities for conflict exist anywhere there is an eddy.  By the way, when communicating with fisherpeople, kayakers should be aware that they may refer to an eddy as a "hole," a term which has a different meaning for us! As for good fishing, a couple of places come to mind.  As I mentioned, much of the Filter Plant run is pretty good, and has reduced kayak traffic when the water is low.  Keep #1 above in mind, however.  What traffic there is may be irritating because they don’t know any better. The section above the low bridge below Rustic is rumored to be excellent trout water, and the flatwater curves below the fish hatchery (the Indian Meadows area) are well-known for providing excellent fishing. Indian Meadows is wild trout water, with special restrictions on what you can keep.  No problem for catch-and-release. The Big South fork has some nice fishing water about half a mile from the highway.  People kayak the Big South occasionally, but they have keepers who take them back to the Home directly from the takeout so that they won’t be a danger to society.      John Cooley

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Question: while in Victoria, BC, I purchased an antique Wheatly box with about 50 wet flys (mostly Peter Ross and Montreal). Is anyone on the west coast (esp California) still using wet flys with any results or have they been wiped out by nymphs?

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Question: while in Victoria, BC, I purchased an antique Wheatly box with about 50 wet flys (mostly Peter Ross and Montreal). Is anyone on the west coast (esp California) still using wet flys with any results or have they been wiped out by nymphs?

I am still using wet flies (I live in Montana).  My favorite flies are Peter Ross, Grizzly King, Silver March Brown, Soft Hackles etc.  I ususally use them when I can’t see dry flies in late evening and when fish are taking something at subsurface (I use either emerger flies or wet flies in this case).  Wet flies work very well.  Therefore, I always carry dry, nimph, and wet fly boxes in my vest. NK

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Is anyone on the west coast (esp California) still using wet flys with any results or have they been wiped out by nymphs?

I tie and fish traditional winged wets and soft hackles all the time, and they still work on the Oregon coast streams.  –Roger

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 Is anyone on the west coast (esp California) still using wet flys with any results or have they been wiped out by nymphs?

Hi Doug, Fish the traditional wet fly is still one of my favorite fishing methods. The only real change I’ve made over the years is my wet flies are much smaller than they used to be.  In years past my average wet fly was a #8 or #10.  Today they are mostly #14 or #16.  I think they are more deadly today than years past especially when fished over "hard pressed" fish.   These fish have seen everything ten times a day and a wet fly is something different. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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Do you fish a wet fly like a nymph? i.e. split shot 6-8" above the fly? I am new to this, have gotten pretty good at tying my own flys, and like to tie many of the wet fly patterns, but honestly don’t know how to fish them. Someone let me know please? DLowe

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Dear DLowe,     The traditional way of fishing wets was to cast across and downstream and let the line and leader swing around in a large, slow arc, take a step downstream, cast again, etc covering as much water as possible.  Flies were unweighted and usually fished two or three at a time.  Twitching the flies as they swung around and/or mending to slow the swing were common additions to the technique.  This method has been declared extinct several times over the last hundred years, first by the dry fly purists of the turn of the century, more recently by nymph specialists.  It still works, it is a very relaxing and pleasant way to fish, and it is a good way for a novice to learn to read water.      I highly recommend the book Wet Flies by Dave Hughes.  –  Roger

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -(KilchsGray) writes: Dear DLowe,    The traditional way of fishing wets was to cast across and downstream and let the line and leader swing around in a large, slow arc, take a step downstream, cast again, etc covering as much water as possible.  Flies were unweighted and usually fished two or three at a time.  Twitching the flies as they swung around and/or mending to slow the swing were common additions to the technique.  This method has been declared extinct several times over the last hundred years, first by the dry fly purists of the turn of the century, more recently by nymph specialists.  It still works, it is a very relaxing and pleasant way to fish, and it is a good way for a novice to learn to read water.     I highly recommend the book Wet Flies by Dave Hughes. —  Roger

Ditto on the Dave Hughes book. Dave just did a presentation to our club on wet flies. Don Burns

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Question:

 I think I have to decide between an Orvis Western Freestone (Rocky  Mountain Series) and the Sage GFL 590 DS.  Any suggestions as to the  better pole/value? I own a 9′- 5wt. Orvis Freestone, and although I don’t have a Sage Discovery, I do own several Sage RPL’s and without a doubt I would recommend a Sage. I find the Orvis rod very tip-heavy w/ a "clubby" feel. My son won’t even use my Orvis rod anymore, I had to build a Sage for him from a "second " blank.         Don’t worry about the warranties. My friend broke the tip on his Sage and they replaced it very swiftly for about $25. Most people find Sage’s customer service to be very good.

  EVERYONE,     Different strokes for different folks…..!  Is there a *best* airplane, automobile, computer, flyrod…..? tight_lines_&_clean_waters_in_95′ steve drossel advocate for the AOFFI (Atlantic Ocean FlyFishing Initiative)

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 I [gulp] work for an Orvis dealer. Frank, the above being the case, perhaps you could enlighten me about the new series due out from Orvis in the spring.  It’s supposed to be on the cheapo side, to compete with the Cortland 444 packages, maybe $150. What’s the word on it? thanks floete

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Bryant) writes: I think I have to decide between an Orvis Western Freestone (Rocky Mountain Series) and the Sage GFL 590 DS.  Any suggestions as to the better pole/value?

I’ve had  a Sage Discovery 6-7 weight for 4 years, and just bought a 4-wt RPL.  I think the world of Sage, comparing friend’s Cortlands and Loomis rods in similar weights, the Sages seem quicker and much less strain to cast.   I wouldn’t put too much weight on Orvis’s 25-year guarantee unless you plan on breaking one.  The key thing is, how do they compare when you cast them?  And some fly shops will even let you take out a loaner.  I found a fly shop that let me take out a loaner Sage RPL for a few days, even though their Sage rep said he’d never of anyone doing that.  Good luck, Bill Uyeki

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 (Robert Bryant) writes:  I think I have to decide between an Orvis Western Freestone (Rocky  Mountain Series) and the Sage GFL 590 DS.  Any suggestions as to the  better pole/value? I own a 9′- 5wt. Orvis Freestone, and although I don’t have a Sage Discovery, I do own several

Sage RPL’s and without a doubt I would recommend a Sage. I find the Orvis rod very tip-heavy w/ a "clubby" feel. My son won’t even use my Orvis rod anymore, I had to build a Sage for him from a "second " blank.          Don’t worry about the warranties. My friend broke the tip on his Sage and they replaced it very swiftly for about $25. Most people find Sage’s customer service to be very good. Yours virtually, Gary W. Godden

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I think I have to decide between an Orvis Western Freestone (Rocky Mountain Series) and the Sage GFL 590 DS.  Any suggestions as to the better pole/value? The comparisons are below.         Orvis                           Sage         $230                            $180         9′                              9′         3 1/8 oz.                       3 3/8 oz.         2 pc                            2 pc         25 yr. replacement              Standard warranty Please help me make this decision.  If you have either of these poles, please, how do you like it/them.  My local dealer, who sells both, likes the Sage pole.  I like the 25 year replacement promise of the Orvis.  My wife likes whatever is cheaper! Thanks for any help you can give me. —           Bob                   "Computers will reduce the amount of           Moss Landing, Ca.       paper consumed."

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -(Robert Bryant) writes: I think I have to decide between an Orvis Western Freestone (Rocky Mountain Series) and the Sage GFL 590 DS.  Any suggestions as to the better pole/value? The comparisons are below.    Orvis                           Sage    $230                            $180    9′                              9′    3 1/8 oz.                       3 3/8 oz.    2 pc                            2 pc    25 yr. replacement              Standard warranty Please help me make this decision.  If you have either of these poles, please, how do you like it/them.  My local dealer, who sells both, likes the Sage pole.  I like the 25 year replacement promise of the Orvis.  My wife likes whatever is cheaper!

The cost difference is $50.  If the Sage rod breaks, it can be fixed, at a price, and then you are left with a broken Sage rod that has been repaired. The broken Sage rod that has been repaired may, after the repair, cast as before, but generally not. I don’t care how good the repair job is- break=repair=a weakness that won’t go away and that may break again. Not to mention the worry associated with not having a 25 year rod breakage warranty. On the other hand, if the Orvis rod breaks, it is sent back to Orvis who generally replaces the entire broken section rather than ‘repair’ the break. I know because I [gulp] work for an Orvis dealer.  I’ve even seen dealers swap out new rods right off the rack for broken ones.  The Orvis rod repair receipts that I see cover costs in the range of $10-$50+. All the customer pays for is shipping back to the dealer, or the cost of shipping to Orvis if you don’t have a dealer in your area. It’s funny, but it seems that flyfishers east of the Mississippi choose Orvis rods and those to the west choose Sage. I’ve casted both in similar line weight, length and taper and I like them both for particular reasons-like maybe the Sage finish is nicer or the Orvis handle is better or whatever. Bottom line is that breakage factor and Orvis offers a nice escape hatch and Sage does not.  But you have to buy the rod that suits you and performs correctly for the things you want to do with it. Frank

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