Question:

    It is now the a.m. where in I can actually recognize the keyboard as a keyboard, not a checkers board.  The FBI has left my door and life is getting back to normal (who knew that using a keyboard as a checker board would hit the right url and password to deploy the black helicopters to Stewart, Iowa?).     I want to wish you all a happy New Year.  This has been a tremendous year of growth in my fly fishing skill, due in no small part to ROFFians. The Pirate’s School of Fishing With Floaty Pieces of Yarn, followed by Mike Makela’s School of Stare at the Water and Will the Fish onto your Hook (Zen subdivision) taught me nymphing.  Petah and the Pirate, after watching me go fishless all day, telling me I’ve got too much bow in my line (‘cudda said something earlier).  Wayno threatening to beat me silly if I flexed my wrist on my back cast.  Tony Norton getting me out on skinny water so I could learn stealth.     Did I fish as much as I wanted to this year? No.  Did I more than make up for it with new friends that accept me as me? Yes.   Folks who open their homes like Dave and Jo, Wayne and Dianna.  Guys who haul me from spot to spot like Stan, and the whole Boston Massacre II Clave crew.  Not one had ever met me, but you all came out to fish with me.  To Penns and Rappahannock crew and to all of you I’ve yet to fish with, to those who put in the wonderful TR’s and advice, even to those who’ve added a bit of controversy the group, I wish you all the best in the coming year. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

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Frank, the pleasure was all mine.  I enjoyed your company and fishing with you.  I have named that pool on the Penns "The Frank Pool".    And, Jo and I are enjoying the quilt.   Best Wishes for a safe and wonderful New Year to you and yours, Frank.  Hope to see you at Penns. Dave

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Frank, the pleasure was all mine.  I enjoyed your company and fishing with you. I have named that pool on the Penns "The Frank Pool".    And, Jo and I are enjoying the quilt.   Best Wishes for a safe and wonderful New Year to you and yours, Frank.  Hope to see you at Penns. Dave

I’ll echo those comments – see you at Penns, beside the Frank Pool. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Question:

Sounds terrific but I do have a question. If i can’t see very well anyway do these still need to be tied in the dark. I’ll wait for your answer. Thanks Larry

Absolutely!  That is why the flys appear way out of proportion to a seasoned fly tier.  The wings are too long to aid in locating the hook eye via touch.  The tail is too long to let you know which end has the eye.  The clump of feathers is tied around the hook to allow the fly to float no matter which way it lands on the water.  It often floats side- ways anyway. — Wayne To Fish is Human….To Release Divine!

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Sounds terrific but I do have a question. If i can’t see very well anyway do these still need to be tied in the dark. I’ll wait for your answer. Meanwhile I am working to develop a fly that will penetrate up to 1 inch of ice to make the wait for spring a bit better. I am making progress but tend to snap the top 7 or 8 inches from my rods. Perhaps a smaller rod is the answer, I will keep you posted. Thanks Larry

A fourteen foot beachcaster, using a slightly modified pendulum cast, ( more or less straight up !! ), a  steel crash helmet and heavy kevlar shoulder padding, coupled with titanium reinforced body armour, ( in case "straight up" is taken too literally ),coupled with an eight ounce reversed squid pirk, with the tangs removed. Should do the trick. While practising at the week-end ( only with a six ounce reverse torpedo lead ), a guy from the local club, who reckoned he was a fair caster, asked to try my gear, as he had the pedulum cast which I was demonstrating to a few blokes from the local club, off to a fine art. Always willing to learn, I handed him my gear, warned him that the reel had neither magnetic nor air brakes, and that the bearings were oiled and adjusted for maximum free running, I handed him my gear, and moved to one side. One or two of the spectators, obviously acquainted with the talents of our worthy, made a few comments to the effect of "Give it some welly Dave", "Go on Dave, show him how its done", and similar encouraging remarks. Spurred on by this, and after a few moments of silent concentration, Dave reached out with the rod, rose to his full height, and began to whirl at considerable speed. Pirouetting with the consummate grace of a world class ballet dancer, rising up on his toes, and simultaneously heaving with the sheer brute force of a professional hammer thrower, issuing a long and ululating grunt which would have shamed a raging gorrila into immediate submission,  he blasted off a cast which would surely have been close to a world record, if only it had gone forwards, carrying the line with it.  However, due to a slight miscalculation on his part ( The technical term for this particular miscalculation,  is apparently, "F&%

Question:

Guiding is a very tough business and dealing with cranks who won’t do as they’re told to catch fish has to be frustrating. I mean, one of the ways that a guide evaluates his own job performance is to tally up the fish count and I don’t have a problem with that per se. But it will be a cold day in hell before Ken Fortenberry is caught using a gawdamn bobber on a fly line. Nothing against those who do, strictly a personal foible, but catching a fish just ain’t all THAT friggin’ important. — Ken Fortenberry- tired of arguing politics, but not tired of arguing

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Guiding is a very tough business and dealing with cranks who won’t do as they’re told to catch fish has to be frustrating. I mean, one of the ways that a guide evaluates his own job performance is to tally up the fish count and I don’t have a problem with that per se. But it will be a cold day in hell before Ken Fortenberry is caught using a gawdamn bobber on a fly line. Nothing against those who do, strictly a personal foible, but catching a fish just ain’t all THAT friggin’ important. — Ken Fortenberry- tired of arguing politics, but not tired of arguing

I’ve never been on a guided fishing (or hunting, or anything) trip, but if the client won’t listen, well, what can you do…  I have worked as a deckhand on Halibut charters in Alaska, and the first instruction to the clients (known affectionately as ‘pukers’) is to hold the weight when the hook is being baited.  It’s often a 2 lb. lead, and holding the hook doesn’t stop it from swinging.  Getting beaned by a 2 lb. lead can leave one hell of a goose egg on the ol’ noggin.  Still, there’s always a couple of pukers every year that don’t listen–and guess who pays the price… I’ve never used a strike indicator, as such.  This past summer, I had the privilege of fishing with Mark Faulkner on Spring Creek near Bellefonte, PA.  He introduced me to the ‘dry as an indicator’ method, which seems like a good idea and could catch fish now and then, too. I’ve got a friend who ties his own leaders and uses Stren HiVis Gold for some of the thicker sections of his leaders as a sort of ‘in-line indicator’. In general, though, I’ll have to agree.  Bobbers (by any other name, still a bobber) and fly fishing don’t mix. Tom G how about them Nittany Lions, eh? Before you buy.

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But it will be a cold day in hell before Ken Fortenberry is caught using a gawdamn bobber on a fly line.

Why would you use a bobber with a dry? You don’t mean you are nymphing, do you? Why, that’s just like using freeze dried bait<g. — Charlie…

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But it will be a cold day in hell before Ken Fortenberry is caught using a gawdamn bobber on a fly line. Nothing against those who do, strictly a personal foible, but catching a fish just ain’t all THAT friggin’ important.

Yeah but what about those bloody mud sucking fish who don’t show a trace of having taken the fly – or are you only talking about bobbers and not yarn strike indicators. — Ken Fortenberry- tired of arguing politics, but not tired of arguing

Ari Bert                                        Gaelle Bert +27 (0) 83 232 9903                             +27 (0) 83 236 5308 Flyfishing Corner +27 (0) 11 447 7230                             Shop 94, Admirals Court +27 (0) 11 882 8537 (fax)                       Cnr Craddock & Tyrwhitt www.troutfishing.co.za                        Street, Rosebank P.O.Box 79067 Senderwood 2145 South Africa

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I use a bivisible about 18" to 2′ up from a dry.  These old eyes just can’t see a #22 or #24 midge dry 30" away. Bob in El Paso – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But it will be a cold day in hell before Ken Fortenberry is caught using a gawdamn bobber on a fly line. Why would you use a bobber with a dry? You don’t mean you are nymphing, do you? Why, that’s just like using freeze dried bait<g. — Charlie…

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My, perhaps odd, definitions: strike indicator – anything that indicates a fish has taken a fly – leader, knots, line, floaties – and the fly! especially ones with wings to see for miles. Bobber – a device that suspends a fly at a fixed depth- leader, line, knots, floaties and a fly itself could be in that class (eg: parachute tied apart from body so it suspends body well below film) IMO, leaving floaties out of these groups still leaves a whole lot of strike indicators and bobbers that you are using. If you ever de/grease a leader … Steve (As ever – just tired – apologies if this shows up twice

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 There’s a whole range of "indicators" ranging from a "bobber" to a colored a colored leader link, that I seem to remember you use. The question is how far are you willing to go?  A colored leader butt, a smear of flor. putty on the leader knots, a dry fly as an indicator, yarn, cork, foam, etc. etc. etc. Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Guiding is a very tough business and dealing with cranks who won’t do as they’re told to catch fish has to be frustrating. I mean, one of the ways that a guide evaluates his own job performance is to tally up the fish count and I don’t have a problem with that per se. But it will be a cold day in hell before Ken Fortenberry is caught using a gawdamn bobber on a fly line. Nothing against those who do, strictly a personal foible, but catching a fish just ain’t all THAT friggin’ important. — Ken Fortenberry- tired of arguing politics, but not tired of arguing

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Ken Fortenberry writes: But it will be a cold day in hell before Ken Fortenberry is caught using a gawdamn bobber on a fly line. Nothing against those who do, strictly a personal foible, but catching a fish just ain’t all THAT friggin’ important.

Man, you’ll say just about *anything* to get in an argument.  <g So, tell me, old wise one, how are you going to detect strikes?  You *could* watch the end of your floating line, that’ll work.  But then you are using *it* as a strike indicator.  So, to be a purist, you can not watch your line — it’s a strike indicator.  Aha, you will go by feel, right?  Well, for every fish you feel take the nymph, 99 have preceeded him.  And if you *feel* it, the fish has caught itself; you had nothing to do with it.  That ain’t fishing.  That’s hookin’!   <g Best to stay home and fish parachute Adams.  But I am looking forward to seeing you on the SJ.  Should be a great time. Dave L.

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Best to stay home and fish parachute Adams.  But I am looking forward to seeing you on the SJ.  Should be a great time.

We should be able to find some fish midging on the surface or feeding on midge clusters. Willi

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Bob Instead of the #22-24 midges . . . why not go to a Griffets Knat in a 16 or 18. The rationale is that the midges are hatching from egg clusters just under the surface. The GK mimics the dimple of the egg cluster in the meniscus, the fish are usually slurping the egg clusters anyway (not the midges) and ITS BIG EFUFF to SEE. There is no way that #24 is going to look like anything real with the tippit and knot, with any daylight at all. Dave

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Bob Instead of the #22-24 midges . . . why not go to a Griffets Knat in a 16 or 18. The rationale is that the midges are hatching from egg clusters just under the surface. The GK mimics the dimple of the egg cluster in the meniscus, the fish are usually slurping the egg clusters anyway (not the midges) and ITS BIG EFUFF to SEE.

My understanding of midge clusters is that they hatch as individuals and then the clusters are formed when the adults gather in groups in the slow water near the banks.  These masses of midges can be VERY large in fertile waters. Current wind etc. will break off parts of these masses and the fish will take these clusters. Sometimes there aren’t enough clusters around for the fish to key into them.  Often the fish will key into feeding on individual pupas either in or just under the film. Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is no way that #24 is going to look like anything real with the tippit and knot, with any daylight at all. Dave

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But it will be a cold day in hell before Ken Fortenberry is caught using a gawdamn bobber on a fly line. Nothing against those who do, strictly a personal foible, but catching a fish just ain’t all THAT friggin’ important.

I’m on the fence on this one. I far prefer to fish without an indicator, but I will use when I feel it’s warranted. My home water contains a large number of fish that feed on midge larvae. Their take is extremely subtle, and I do often fish for them with an indicator. On the other hand, I fished in Northern New Hampshire for a week, using mainly nymphs, and was quite successful without once using an indicator. Faster water, larger flies, more aggressive fish, all make a difference. I definitely agree that guides rely far to much on using indicators, especially when teaching beginners. Many newbies I’ve observed the past few years never remove the indicator, even when attempting to fish dry. One afternoon in New Hampshire, I was fishing across the stream from a couple who had hired a guide as an instructor. He was spending most of his time with the wife, (big surprise), and had her casting reasonably well with a huge indicator about 3′ above some sort of nymph. After about a half hour, fish began to rise, I tied on a #14 Usual, and caught three or four fish in short order. The guide asked me what I was using, but never once suggested that either one of his sports switch over to a dry. Too bad, because the woman was in a perfect position for a long drift over several good fish. Would have been an ideal opportunity to introduce her to the joys of catching fish on a dry. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

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But it will be a cold day in hell before Ken Fortenberry is caught using a gawdamn bobber on a fly line. Nothing against those who do, strictly a personal foible, but catching a fish just ain’t all THAT friggin’ important.

I’ve always liked the fact that you and I have similar fishing tastes and likes. However on your upcoming trip to the Juan, and IF the fish are not keying on the emergers in the surface film, you will more than likely be fishing midges in the 22-26 range, a bobber is almost a requirement, along with ability to mend, mend, mend, and then mend again. I spent an entire morning ignoring my guide and a more experienced Juan fisherman, only when I acquiensed and used the indicator could I detect the strikes. — Wayne Knight Expert in creating tailing loops and windknots Otherwise Fishless in Kansas Before you buy.

Response:

Willi writes: We should be able to find some fish midging on the surface or feeding on midge clusters.

I’m planning on it, Willi.  But, after tying some of these iddybiddythingies, I doubt I’ll be able to see ‘em on the water! <g Now, a big old yarn indicator — easy to see!!!!!   d;0) Dave

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Willi, Some of my recent tying attempts are #18 Griffith’s Gnats. Are these small enough for the San Juan? I’ve got some #20 and #22 hooks on order just in case. Danl (home today with back spasms. its hell gettin old) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We should be able to find some fish midging on the surface or feeding on midge clusters. Willi

Response:

Guiding is a very tough business and dealing with cranks who won’t do as they’re told to catch fish has to be frustrating. I mean, one of the ways that a guide evaluates his own job performance is to tally up the fish count and I don’t have a problem with that per se. But it will be a cold day in hell before Ken Fortenberry is caught using a gawdamn bobber on a fly line. Nothing against those who do, strictly a personal foible, but catching a fish just ain’t all THAT friggin’ important. — Ken Fortenberry- tired of arguing politics, but not tired of arguing

I’m going to be indelicate again (but not irrelevant) – weren’t you using one of the Muskegon.  <g  But we drew the line at egg flies, eh? BTW – the P. Charles distinction between bobbers and strike indicators. === A bobber will float your rig, a strike indicator won’t. Peter – the honest broker who admits to using a bobber ’cause he can’t nymph fish worth a shit, especially without one.

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We should be able to find some fish midging on the surface or feeding on midge clusters.

That’s my understanding as well, and one of the reasons I decided to make the trip. Somewhere between France and Urbana is a silk flyline with my name on it. It will be here in time to be spooled up on a Hardy Princess for use on an old Granger Aristocrat. Can’t think of a better place to wet a new flyline for the first time than with a bunch of ROFFians on a world famous trout stream. — Ken Fortenberry

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But it will be a cold day in hell before Ken Fortenberry is caught using a gawdamn bobber on a fly line. Nothing against those who do, strictly a personal foible, but catching a fish just ain’t all THAT friggin’ important.

Ken, please ask Mr. Fortenberry to define "strike indicator" for us if he wouldn’t mind. –Steve

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: So, tell me, old wise one, how are you going to detect strikes?   [...] : feel take the nymph, 99 have preceeded him.  And if you *feel* it, Ya know, the best of ‘em simply *know* when a fish has taken… JonCook. — Not that I’m one of them, but I bet Willi is

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1. all the pins are down 2. you cross a picket line 3. your nose is bleeding 4. there are lines through all of your letters 5. the player is walking back to the dugout —

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I’m going to be indelicate again (but not irrelevant) – weren’t you using one of the Muskegon.  <g

Yes, that was a gift from Herman Nijland, an ingenious piece of work involving a very small metal ring and a piece of yarn, a "hinged leader system" I believe he called it. I still have it somewhere, but it’s not really my cup of tea and I didn’t use it for the steelhead, those I dredged up with a small black stonefly nymph and no indicator. But we drew the line at egg flies, eh?

And the poor guide looked to be close to tears when we told him so. BTW – the P. Charles distinction between bobbers and strike indicators. === A bobber will float your rig, a strike indicator won’t.

As good a distinction as any. If I’m gettin’ skunked and the guide is taking it personally, I could probably be convinced to catch a fish using whatever flyfishing method is legal in that locale. I’m not impervious to a guide’s discomfort, but someone coined a phrase one time about the customer always being right. — Ken Fortenberry

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Regarding the SJ:  You’ve got to be pretty damn slick up there to NEVER use an indicator because  1.  sometimes the fish are deep and/or the water’s not clear enough to see them  2.  their take is notoriously subtle. I use everything from a big yarn ball 11 ft from my flies to a small foam one to a dry fly to nothing, watching for my leader/tippet to straighten.  And yes i fish plenty of dries. Hopefully Channer will be there to provide tips to those who don’t want any lead or yarn on their leader.  Less discriminating flyfishers can cut a "lifetime supply" of yarn from my spool and follow me.  I fish nymphs, dries, and emergers there and with nymphs and emergers and even sometimes dries i’ll have an indicator of some type. Dave, a size 22 with a knot and everything still looks like a midge, and on some days on that river you’ll catch twice as many fish with a 24 and even more on a 26, no kidding. bruce h Before you buy.

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That’s my understanding as well, and one of the reasons I decided to make the trip. Somewhere between France and Urbana is a silk flyline with my name on it. It will be here in time to be spooled up on a Hardy Princess for use on an old Granger Aristocrat. Can’t think of a better place to wet a new flyline for the first time than with a bunch of ROFFians on a world famous trout stream.

Ah, the irony! Striking a blow for Piscatorial Purity — the silk line, the venerable rod and reel, the death-before-strike-indicators stance — on the banks of the San Juan river, a place where flyfishing for trout wouldn’t even exist were it not for that big ole dam and its tailwaterrific releases! Course, I usually wear plus-fours to the mini-golf course , – sid

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Ah, the irony! …

How true. Must be something in the air this fall. Ds arguing for states rights, R’s looking to the federal courts for injunctive relief and yours truly fishin’ a tailwater. Can the apocalypse be far behind ? — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Willi writes: We should be able to find some fish midging on the surface or feeding on midge clusters. I’m planning on it, Willi.  But, after tying some of these iddybiddythingies, I doubt I’ll be able to see ‘em on the water! <g Now, a big old yarn indicator — easy to see!!!!!   d;0)

Any surface fishing will probably be to individual fish in slow water areas.  It’s best to fish these from upstream letting the fly drift down before the tippet. Even if you can’t see the fly, you have a pretty good idea where it is and you can strike on the take. I’ve only fished the Juan a couple of times but when I did, I found that you could drag your fly directly into the correct feeding lane several feet above the rising fish without disturbing it. The rest is timing the drift, getting a drag free one and having an acceptable fly. The fish don’t get put down easilly and they will give you many chances (which you’ll probably need.) Willi

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Question:

I’m thinking real hard about incorporating a two-weight into my fly rod arsenal, and I’d like some opinions on their versatility. Is it a "perfect conditions" only rod, or can you get out in a little wind or water on the higher side? Can it handle mid-range flies, small streamers, weighted nymphs, maybe a smallish wooly bugger? Or is it limited to small dries and wets? What about small poppers? I fish more for warm water fish than trout, and I know a two-weight would be adequate for our stream trout in Pennsylvania, but I would use this a lot for bluegill and crappie and my "experimenting" in ponds and coves from my float tube. I also like to push the envelope and challenge all my rods, so I’d see what I could do on bass and steelhead in Lake Erie tribs in the fall. Right now, I’m looking at either Orvis Silver Label two-weight, either the 7′ 9" or 8′ 4" model. Are the Trident models worth twice as much? Any other brands I should consider? Thanks for all opinions! John Scherrer http://www.cianow.com "Courage is being scared to death…and saddling up anyway." – John Wayne

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–MS_Mac_OE_3043294664_217493_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable <HTML <HEAD <TITLETwo-weight opinions please!</TITLE </HEAD <BODY I’m thinking real hard … I also like to push the envelope and challenge all my r= ods, so I’d see what I could do on bass and steelhead in Lake Erie tribs in = the fall.<BR … Thanks for all opinions!<BR <BR John Scherrer<BR <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"<Uhttp://www.cianow.com<BR </U</FONT<BR <FONT SIZE=3D"4"&quot;Courage is being scared to death…and saddling up any= way.&quot; <BR – <IJohn Wayne</I</FONT </BODY </HTML Be careful what you ask for, someone around here may give you their opinion on using a 2wt for steelhead and on posting in html. Hint: Wear asbestos. — Ken Fortenberry

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This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. I’m thinking real hard about incorporating a two-weight into my fly rod arsenal, and I’d like some opinions on their versatility. Right now, I’m looking at either Orvis Silver Label two-weight, either the 7′ 9" or 8′ 4" model. Are the Trident models worth twice as much? Any other brands I should consider? Thanks for all opinions! John Scherrer

John, when you post to a newsgroup NEVER post in MIME format.  Use basic plain text.  Your post is jibberish to a lot of people and wastes time and money for some. Back to your question.  What is the point of adding the 2 wt.? Basically, you are asking if you should use a 2 wt. rod for all the applications you should not use a 2 wt. rod.  I’m not sure what your question really is.  If you want ultra-light line strength, use lighter tippet. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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    Many of us here, Frank Church and myself to name a few use the 3wt. Cabelas 3 forks for panfish. Being 7.5′ it is ideal for bank fishing of species within it’s range. Because of it’s low cost, there is nothing lost if it is only used sporaticaly. It also is easy to store due to the 3piece take down. I often recommend it as an addition. The cost of rod, reel, line, and 7X tippets (I feel) of one of the premium makers does not justify the limited use of the smaller weight rods. John Popp

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m thinking real hard about incorporating a two-weight into my fly rod arsenal, and I’d like some opinions on their versatility. Is it a "perfect conditions" only rod, or can you get out in a little wind or water on the higher side? Can it handle mid-range flies, small streamers, weighted nymphs, maybe a smallish wooly bugger? Or is it limited to small dries and wets? What about small poppers? I fish more for warm water fish than trout, and I know a two-weight would be adequate for our stream trout in Pennsylvania, but I would use this a lot for bluegill and crappie and my "experimenting" in ponds and coves from my float tube. I also like to push the envelope and challenge all my rods, so I’d see what I could do on bass and steelhead in Lake Erie tribs in the fall. Right now, I’m looking at either Orvis Silver Label two-weight, either the 7′ 9" or 8′ 4" model. Are the Trident models worth twice as much? Any other brands I should consider? Thanks for all opinions! John Scherrer http://www.cianow.com "Courage is being scared to death…and saddling up anyway." – John Wayne

Response:

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

First off, please turn off the HTML and MIME. I’m thinking real hard about incorporating a two-weight into my fly rod arsenal, and I’d like some opinions on their versatility.

They are not versatile, but can be a useful and fun rod in the right conditions and for the right fish. Is it a "perfect conditions" only rod, or can you get out in a little wind or water on the higher side? Can it handle mid-range flies, small streamers, weighted nymphs, maybe a smallish wooly bugger? Or is it limited to small dries and wets? What about small poppers?

It doesn’t have to be perfect conditions, I take mine out in light wind, but generally when the water is on the high side I bring a different rod. I use small to mid-sized flies, no streamers, nothing weighted, haven’t fished with poppers so I wouldn’t know. I fish more for warm water fish than trout, and I know a two-weight would be adequate for our stream trout in Pennsylvania, but I would use this a lot for bluegill and crappie and my "experimenting" in ponds and coves from my float tube.

A 2-weight is a blast with bluegill and crappie. I also like to push the envelope and challenge all my rods, so I’d see what I could do on bass and steelhead in Lake Erie tribs in the fall.

I’d pass on the bass and steelhead though, the tippet size usually used with a 2-weight would snap right quick.  You could use a heavier tippet and fight the fish from the reel, but then what’s the point of the 2-weight. Right now, I’m looking at either Orvis Silver Label two-weight, either the 7′ 9" or 8′ 4" model. Are the Trident models worth twice as much? Any other brands I should consider?

I have the 7′9" equivalent of the silver label (was called something different back then).  Personally I don’t think the non-silver labels are worth the price, but if you are into asthetics they might be. You might want to consider what type of action you prefer since the 7′9" model is a really slow action and the tridents are relatively fast action.   Later,      - Ken

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Is there any concern about how much protection the rod can provide ?  Or is that not a concern among fly fisherpeople ?

I have found that Trojans and seat belts provide far better protection than any fishing rod could ever give. If I’m ever attacked by a rabid trout, I will be quite willing to re-evaluate. Vegetables aren’t food. Vegetables are what the food eats.

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These are supposed to be close-in rods so don’t buy some fast 2 wt. in the belief it adds to it’s versatility.  Here’s my preferences in no particular order. Orvis 7′ 9" T&T 7′ XL Sage LL 279 Winston IM6 7′

I will be picking up an Orvis Silver Label 792 this weekend.  The local Orvis shop here is willing to let me try it out for a week or two with no obligation to buy…now that is customer service (I purchased my 4wt. from the same shop 2 years ago)!  Apparently, the Silver Label 792 is the same blank as the Superfine/Ultra Fine model with the only real difference being the Silver Label has a walnut, uplocking  reel seat as opposed to the Ultra Fine’s cork, banded seat.  And of course, the price…the Silver Label is about $75.00 USD less than the Ultra Fine.  Actually, it was you Peter who tipped me off about this….thx.  :-) I’ll also be trying out a T&T LPS 802.  I’m sure they are both excellent rods and I will reserve my final judgment until I’ve had a chance to use them both.  Having said that, I will say that the T&T has got to be one helluva rod and really stand out for me to justify spending the extra $$$$ ($380.00 for TT vs. $230.00 for Orvis).  We will see. Also..great tip on the leader..thx again Peter. Natty

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Never felt the need to use my rod for protection. I have, on occasion, used protection on my rod though. Does that count?

  Nope. Before you buy.

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What weight would you need to feel comfortable, Big Dale? I’m pretty good at around 165 myself.  I suspect Dale prefers to pack just a bit more.    :)

125 is adequate for those with steady hands and a steely eye. OBROFF Depends on the two weight.  One of the biggest problems with two is the use of factory leaders.  The little line just can’t turn over a 024 thou butt.  So make your own leaders with .013 to .015 butt sections and the versatility of your little rod goes way up. These are supposed to be close-in rods so don’t buy some fast 2 wt. in the belief it adds to it’s versatility.  Here’s my preferences in no particular order. Orvis 7′ 9" T&T 7′ XL Sage LL 279 Winston IM6 7′ Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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rod can provide ?  Or is that not a concern among fly fisherpeople ?

I do not consider a 2 weight rod an adequate substitute for a Ruger or a twelve gauge. Big Dale. Big Dale

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Wow! I see you’re from Buffalo!!!! One of my favorite places in the world. Been thru a few times, and came out on do-it-yourself hunt at Bud Love back in the mid-80’s (seems like yesterday!) Taking the family out next month for Badlands, Rushmore, Devil’s Tower, 2/3 nights at Buffalo to see the Bighorns and Custer’s battlefield, then over to Cody, Yellowstone and Jackson Hole. Fishing will be incidental, not the purpose of the trip, if you know of any day trips or float trips or do-it-yourself areas, let me know! John Scherrer http://www.cianow.com

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Made in Duntons shop in Mass.  Before haveing his own shop Dunton was at Montague(just before WWII). They were sold under his own label and under the name of a fly shop in Manhattan(Bob Zwirz?) They were rather low end rods, drawn ferrules as an example, rather than machined. They were supposed to be rather fast with firm butts and quick tips but the ones I have seen(3 or 4) and cast seemed a bit wimpy and light in the tip.  Dunton sold his shop and machinery to Tom Dorsey and Tom Maxwell and it became Thomas and Thomas.  They went on to produce a line of superb high quality rods.  You see Dunton rods on the used lists from time to time and they don’t command much of a price.  IMHO they have some minor historical value but not much to recommend them as a fishing tool. Hi, I am interested in Sewell Dunton bambo rod. Anyone knows the magazie article or something written about it? Thanks in advance. Mikio Sugiyama

– Mike in PDX "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                          Tom McGuane

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Hi, I am interested in Sewell Dunton bambo rod. Anyone knows the magazie article or something written about it? Thanks in advance. Mikio Sugiyama

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Hi.  I’m fairly new to southern Erie County, NY.  I’ve heard that there is nice salmon fishing in Eighteen Mile Creek in the fall, and I’d like to prepare.  Is anyone out here familiar with this water?  I am interested in when, where, and how (with what).  I am fairly familiar with it from Lake Erie to the big fork.  Would really appreciate any advice or even a partner.  (have chests wades and a small 4wd)  Could do either fly/spin/livebait).  Thanks again for any help.                                         Michael Kankiewicz                                         Business / Government Documents                                         Lockwood Memorial Library                                         University at Buffalo

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Hi Mike, I take it you attend U.B since your sending this from the grad library . 18 mile is nit really a good chinook salmon tributary. actually the chinook salmon  population is fairly limited in all of lake erie. You will some coho salmon in 18 and other lake erie tributaries but most of all you will find steelhead. The primary tackle on 18 is egg sacks for steelhead,power bait. I float fish for steelhead with a 13 ft rod and a centerpin float reel as they do in canada. i also fly fish . if you fly fish on 18 i suggest small flies size 8 thru 10 egg sucking leaches,  size 8 glow bugs. at time the current can be slow esp in winter and water gin clear you may want to use a small float for strike indicator.Since your new to the area i suggest you go to the book store to pick up the sanders guide -which will give you all the spots in the area. If your still interest in chinook try oak orachard creek in orleans county,18 mile creek in niagara county or the lower niagara itself–lake ontario has larger population of chinooks-which proably will show up by end of september.If you dont mind taking a long ride say for a weekend there is the salmon river north of syracuse–you proably already know about that RIVERS REPUTATION AS WORLD CLASS. I hope this helps e mail if you have more questions.

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Hey, I’m new to fly fishing, and I’ve got a realatively inexpensive outfit that I use for grayling up here in Alaska. Now, it’s my understanding that to make the dry flys float, you spray them with a silicon type sealer and rub it in, right?  Now, I have a jar of Aladdin Magic Lube II silicone lube/sealant in a clear, jelly form. Can I use this? thanks Timothy Murphrey North Pole Alaska

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that I use for grayling up here in Alaska. Now, it’s my understanding that to make the dry flys float, you spray them with a silicon type sealer and rub it in, right?  Now, I have a jar of Aladdin Magic Lube II

1.  No.  Dry flies made sparsely on lightweight hooks with good hackle or dubbing should float by themselves:  and when soaked should dry to float again with one crack of the whip.  (Beware this!  Every crack weakens the nylon tippet.  That’s why you deliberately avoid this in casting.) 2.  Silicone or other waterproofing treatments help flies float in non-standard conditions, e.g. big bushy flies on broken water.  There are now so many chemicals, from ancient wax in naphtha to modern Scotchgard that you can use whatever you like.  But avoid excessive complications, i.e. use no chemicals unless necessary. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Little Grizzly Creek Ranch is accepting reservations for summer flyfishing at the head waters of the North Platte, near Walden, Colorado.  New accommodations, gourmet meals, guides, instruction, hosted bar and over ten miles of virgin streams never before fished by the public.  Five varieties of trout to 24".  For a free brochure, e-mail your regular address to:

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Please send a free brochure to; Chuck Rementer 20198 East Aintree Ct Parker, CO 80134 fish

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Jay, One of the problems you might be having is that the mailing list stuff is all taken care of at TU National.  I’d try a call to national TU to see if they have you on the mailing list of the local chapter.  I don’t think many local chapters maintain there own lists.  They use labels they get from national.  I know that this problem has occurred with my local chapter.  Dave

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Such is the way of small groups. "That which belongs to all is cared for by none" I have been involved in a number of small groups (industry, alumni, etc.). Everyone wants more out of the group and have plenty of suggestions but nobody wants to do the work. In the rare insrtance that you do get a volunteer you’ve got a pretty high fallout rate.  I would assume different TU chapters have varying levels of activity depending on the amount of effort put in by the people. You’re looking at the most consistent method I’ve found for communicating with individuals about fly fishing.

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  I’m from Arizona and have had trouble on where to fish,when to fish,and what to use.  Sorry about the stupid questions, but I’m new to this sport.

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  I’m from Arizona and have had trouble on where to fish,when to fish,and what to use.  Sorry about the stupid questions, but I’m new to this sport.

Dear Filthyfly:         This is not a stupid.  The best advise I can give you is find a local flyfishing shop in your area.  Give them a call, get to know them.  If there isn’t a local speciality shop find the nearest sporting goods store.  They should have someone who can help you find areas to fish in and be able to give you information on what to use.  If neither of these is an option, there are listings in the back of the flyfishing magaqines for outfitters and shops. Many of these offer a toll free 800 service.  Give them a call and see if they can steer you in the right direction.           Good luck.  If you ever get up to Utah and are looking for places to go drop me a line and we’ll get you to some great places.   Tight Lines-Steve

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  I’m from Arizona and have had trouble on where to fish,when to fish,and what to use.  Sorry about the stupid questions, but I’m =

new to this sport. Dear Flyfisherman, I’d also look up a local chapter of Trout Unlimited in your area.  I am vice Pres of the Rapidan Chapter in Virginia and there is de= cades of experience in any chapter that will be absolutely free.  If you decide to join it will only cost $20/yr.   Besides teaching you how to fish they will also help you to understand how to protect and preserve what we have. Bill Althoff Flyfishing is Life; the rest is just details.

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  I’m from Arizona and have had trouble on where to fish,when to fish,and what to use.  Sorry about the stupid questions, but I’m = new to this sport. Dear Flyfisherman, I’d also look up a local chapter of Trout Unlimited in your area.  I am vice Pres of the Rapidan Chapter in Virginia and there is de= cades of experience in any chapter that will be absolutely free.  If you decide to join it will only cost $20/yr.   Besides teaching you how to fish they will also help you to understand how to protect and preserve what we have. Bill Althoff Flyfishing is Life; the rest is just details.

    Maybe I’m out of line here, but I am a little curious as to what I should expect from TU. I joined my local chapter about six months ago with high expectations of getting in touch with many fellow ffishers in my area.Looking forward to meetings and was even interested in attending weekend river restoration retreats.   Short of receiving a couple of old issues of the local newsletter which I had to call and request, and getting the usual package which contained the LOGO sticker (which BTW has since deteriated from my Suburban’s window), I have heard nothing. Now, I don’t expect any hand holding or certainly would not appreiciate a barage a calls, however, I would think that some sort of communication from my chapter regarding monthly meetings or such. Am I whinning to much???                                                             Jay

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    Maybe I’m out of line here, but I am a little curious as to what I should expect from TU. I joined my local chapter about six months ago with high expectations of getting in touch with many fellow ffishers in my area.Looking forward to meetings and was even interested in attending weekend river restoration retreats.  Short of receiving a couple of old issues of the local newsletter which I had to call and request, and getting the usual package which contained the LOGO sticker (which BTW has since deteriated from my Suburban’s window), I have heard nothing. Now, I don’t expect any hand holding or certainly would not appreiciate a barage a calls, however, I would think that some sort of communication from my chapter regarding monthly meetings or such. Am I whinning to much???

Jay, Various chapters of TU have differing amounts of activity, but TU’s forte has always been on a national basis.  That’s the biggest reason that Caltrout became such a force in California.  Most of the $ for TU from CA were leaving the state for projects elsewhere (national).  Caltrout spends all in CA and nowhere else (regional or local).  We need both types of organisations.  If your chapter is not active enough for your tastes, either get involved by finding projects (such as stream restoration) that need doing and start pushing from the bottom to get it started (I should warn you that you will probably be put in charge of such a project when you do) or contact the Federation of Fly Fishers and see if there is an affiliated club in the area.  Most of the fly fishing clubs in my area are affiliated with the FFF and often sponsor local projects.  Fly fishing clubs are great repositories of skill, knowledge, and bullshit.  They religiously have monthly meetings and feature skills, projects, fishouts, etc.  Give it a shot.                                                            Dan                                                        Dan Gracia                                                        Schools Coordinator                                                        Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

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Question:

Fabulous blue, striper and false albacore fly rod fishing at the point. Huge schools of blues hitting all day long (4-10 lbs.), bass averaging about 10-15 lbs with some as large as 35 lbs,  Albacore in and out of the blue schools hitting like  subway trains.  Incredible fly rod fishing both off the surf, jetties and especialy from small boats just outside the surf line.  Should get even better in the next few weeks.

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10/10 I was at Montauk Point yesterday and it was incredibly crowded. For safety sake, I kept my 9wt  out of the action. Stripers and blues were around all day, largely within reach of only the longest surfcasters. When they came in close, it was a free for all. I watched one guy hook a 30 inch striper and then get hooked himself by an errant surfcaster as he fought the fish. It was wild as usual!  Flyfishers in boats were getting their gas money’s worth of action Nothing much was doing at Gin Beach, Ditch Plains or Fort Pond Bay during daylight hours. Where have you had your luck? David

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