Question:

My wife and I are looking to fly fish on the white river.  can someone recomend a guide and a lodge that has cabins on the river? — Stay connected, Carl D. Sgro

Response:

My wife and I are looking to fly fish on the white river.  can someone recomend a guide and a lodge that has cabins on the river?

Try this one:  http://www.gastons.com Never been there myself, but it’s probably the best known place on the White. — http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/

Response:

Last Feb we stayed at Rim Shoals campground. They had some nice cabins, small but clean and nice place to sleep.  I generally day trip it over there and dont spend the night much . . it’s about a 3 hour drive. Bob Patton: Where are you from ? -wayne – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My wife and I are looking to fly fish on the white river.  can someone recomend a guide and a lodge that has cabins on the river? Try this one:  http://www.gastons.com Never been there myself, but it’s probably the best known place on the White. — http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/

Response:

Wayne: Me and a new buddy are heading up to the Norfork or White this Saturday for a daytrip.  Want to meet up with us Saturday morning? Memphis Jim (Inventor of the Impromptu Ozark Clave)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last Feb we stayed at Rim Shoals campground. They had some nice cabins, small but clean and nice place to sleep.  I generally day trip it over there and dont spend the night much . . it’s about a 3 hour drive. Bob Patton: Where are you from ? -wayne My wife and I are looking to fly fish on the white river.  can someone recomend a guide and a lodge that has cabins on the river? Try this one:  http://www.gastons.com Never been there myself, but it’s probably the best known place on the White. — http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/

Response:

My wife and I are looking to fly fish on the white river.  can someone recomend a guide and a lodge that has cabins on the river?

Norfork River Resort in Salesville, AR. Very nice, new cabins. Actually on the Norfork River, a tributary of the White, approximately 1 mile from the confluence. http://www.arkansas.com/attractions/attr_detail/r/Ozarks/id/90359/lr/…

Response:

Man I would love to but my daughter’s last fall soccer game is this saturday. I dont think it would be cool for me (also the head coach) to skip the game. Then right after it’s over I have to go to mother-in-laws birthday dinner . . . . so saturday’s booked . . . . Maybe we can hook up another time . . . -wayne – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wayne: Me and a new buddy are heading up to the Norfork or White this Saturday for a daytrip.  Want to meet up with us Saturday morning? Memphis Jim (Inventor of the Impromptu Ozark Clave) Last Feb we stayed at Rim Shoals campground. They had some nice cabins, small but clean and nice place to sleep.  I generally day trip it over there and dont spend the night much . . it’s about a 3 hour drive. Bob Patton: Where are you from ? -wayne My wife and I are looking to fly fish on the white river.  can someone recomend a guide and a lodge that has cabins on the river? Try this one:  http://www.gastons.com Never been there myself, but it’s probably the best known place on the White. — http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/

Response:

Excuses excuses. How can you become a flyfishing hermit when you are attentive to the needs of your loved ones? Memphis Jim

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Man I would love to but my daughter’s last fall soccer game is this saturday. I dont think it would be cool for me (also the head coach) to skip the game. Then right after it’s over I have to go to mother-in-laws birthday dinner . . . . so saturday’s booked . . . . Maybe we can hook up another time . . . -wayne Wayne: Me and a new buddy are heading up to the Norfork or White this Saturday for a daytrip.  Want to meet up with us Saturday morning? Memphis Jim (Inventor of the Impromptu Ozark Clave) Last Feb we stayed at Rim Shoals campground. They had some nice cabins, small but clean and nice place to sleep.  I generally day trip it over there and dont spend the night much . . it’s about a 3 hour drive. Bob Patton: Where are you from ? -wayne My wife and I are looking to fly fish on the white river.  can someone recomend a guide and a lodge that has cabins on the river? Try this one:  http://www.gastons.com Never been there myself, but it’s probably the best known place on the White. — http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/

Response:

I understand . . . LOL  . . . It looks like the first Sat I will be able to get away is going to be the 23rd.  . . . . wayne – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Excuses excuses. How can you become a flyfishing hermit when you are attentive to the needs of your loved ones? Memphis Jim Man I would love to but my daughter’s last fall soccer game is this saturday. I dont think it would be cool for me (also the head coach) to skip the game. Then right after it’s over I have to go to mother-in-laws birthday dinner . . . . so saturday’s booked . . . . Maybe we can hook up another time . . . -wayne Wayne: Me and a new buddy are heading up to the Norfork or White this Saturday  for a daytrip.  Want to meet up with us Saturday morning? Memphis Jim (Inventor of the Impromptu Ozark Clave) Last Feb we stayed at Rim Shoals campground. They had some nice  cabins, small but clean and nice place to sleep.  I generally day trip it over there and dont spend the night much . . it’s about a 3 hour drive. Bob Patton: Where are you from ? -wayne My wife and I are looking to fly fish on the white river.  can  someone recomend a guide and a lodge that has cabins on the river? Try this one:  http://www.gastons.com Never been there myself, but it’s probably the best known place on  the White. — http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/

Response:

Check out http://www.mtnhome.net/brf/ Dale Fulton owns a fine fly shop in Mountain Home, AR, has access to guides, and has cabins on the river.  Also see http://www.mtnhome.net/fultons/ I have no direct relationship with Dale, other than I’ve shopped there, stayed in his lodge, and generally endorse him as a fine guy. Best, John. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My wife and I are looking to fly fish on the white river.  can someone recomend a guide and a lodge that has cabins on the river? — Stay connected, Carl D. Sgro

Response:

Question:

<SNIP the eye, put marabou collars on them, and finished with a built-up epoxy head).   The fishhair stood up, but the marabou got creamed. What would be a good recipe for my needs and what would be a good collar substitute?  Thanks, Adam

Go to your local hardware store, have a  look at the synthetic cords.  They come in a whole range of colours, including fluorescents. When shredded and combed out, ( Use a wire brush),these make indestructible wings for flies. Use short bits for the collars. The stuff does not soak up water, and is easy to cast. TL MC

Response:

Going to fly fish for big peacock bass in the Amazon this October.  Problem is that you have to throw flies all day long, using anywhere from an 8 to a 10/11 wt. rod.  Now, the traditional flies are usually at least 6-8" long and damn wind resistant.  So you get the idea about having your arm replaced at the end of each day. Anyway, I’d like to make up a mess of 6" streamers that will have a nice profile, but yet be not too wind resistant.  One suggestion was to pattern them after Deceivers, but without feathers (as the peacocks will rip them up pronto).  I’m not the greatest tyer and I look to make the flies pretty much down and dirty.  These fish are so aggressive that one doesn’t need to be fancy with their tying.  So, I’d like some help with the type of materials to use that will give me the profile and yet be easy to throw.  Also, I would imagine that if one was to make a deceiver sans feathers, once again certain materials would be better than others.  For example, I’ve fish the peacock in Venezuela (fish went up to 17#), and made relatively thin streamers out of fishhair or bozo hair (just tied on several different colors behind the eye, put marabou collars on them, and finished with a built-up epoxy head).   The fishhair stood up, but the marabou got creamed. What would be a good recipe for my needs and what would be a good collar substitute?  Thanks, Adam

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I seem to miss alot of posts these days, and am wondering how well my own posts go out. If you see this post directly, could you please email me? Also, up until about 4 replies, could you also reply on ROFF and include the full text? If you don’t receive my post directly but see it on ROFF included in someone else’s reply, could you please email me that you didn’t receive it? Thanks in advance, Jon.

Response:

I think I can see it… no wait, that’s not it. Nevermind. — SaltyWaders "Old eyes can’t see shit…"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I seem to miss alot of posts these days, and am wondering how well my own posts go out. If you see this post directly, could you please email me? Also, up until about 4 replies, could you also reply on ROFF and include the full text? If you don’t receive my post directly but see it on ROFF included in someone else’s reply, could you please email me that you didn’t receive it? Thanks in advance, Jon.

Response:

What post? Wolfgang

Response:

I seem to miss alot of posts these days, and am wondering how well my own posts go out. If you see this post directly, could you please email me? Also, up until about 4 replies, could you also reply on ROFF and include the full text? If you don’t receive my post directly but see it on ROFF included in someone else’s reply, could you please email me that you didn’t receive it? Thanks in advance, Jon.

I see it directly.  I just changed my ISP because of dropped messages and other newsgroups problems.

Response:

I saw it.                   Tom L

Response:

[This followup was posted to rec.outdoors.fishing.fly and a copy was sent to the cited author.] Saw it here. I seem to miss alot of posts these days, and am wondering how well my own posts go out. If you see this post directly, could you please email me? Also, up until about 4 replies, could you also reply on ROFF and include the full text? If you don’t receive my post directly but see it on ROFF included in someone else’s reply, could you please email me that you didn’t receive it? Thanks in advance, Jon.

– Charles Davis    K4SWB <I’m The NRA

Response:

If you see this post directly, could you please email me? Also, up until about 4 replies, could you also reply on ROFF and include the full text? If you don’t receive my post directly but see it on ROFF included in someone else’s reply, could you please email me that you didn’t receive it? Thanks in advance, Jon

I saw it.  Didn

Question:

It used to be that bucket-shop rtw’s had all the flexibility of open y-class tickets – travel when you like, but don’t plan on adding new destinations you hadn’t originally ticketed. Now there are some being offered with more restrictions. Call around – the deals on the Internet sometimes are much less attractive than you can get out of the San francisco or LA Sunday travel sections. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

It used to be that bucket-shop rtw’s had all the flexibility of open y-class tickets – travel when you like, but don’t plan on adding new destinations you hadn’t originally ticketed. Now there are some being offered with more restrictions. Call around – the deals on the Internet sometimes are much less attractive than you can get out of the San francisco or LA Sunday travel sections. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s

Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Take a look at http://www.airtreks.com I note that I have not booked through them, but have had discussions and we decided that my trips have not been long enough to warrant using their services.  Overall, I found them helpful and up-front about everything. Dave P.S.  I am not affiliated with AirTreks in anyway-just a consumer looking for the best deal.

Response:

Sounds like great fun.  I rely on www.travelocity.com for some great air fares.  I find you can even beat these fares if you actually call the airlines and seek special deals.  Korean Air has been very competative lately and my experience with all non-american airlines has been exceptional.  By the way, I suggest you bring along a few disposable surgical tools.  Both the people and the animals are very poor and suffer with ailments that just a little doctoring will help.  I brought several pairs of drug store reading glasses because I loose or break them often.  I discovered many older people who need simple eye glasses but can’t get them. I will tell you — few joys on earth equal watching a man who has not read for 10 years suddenly be able to see again.  So little to us; so much to them. By the way, Indonesia has some great climbs to volcanos.  Rhinjani on Lombok in Indonesia is a 3 day trek up and over the rim of a huge volcano.  For about $200 per person you get a guide and 3 porters who set up camp.  Trip includes wonderful waterfalls and hot springs, plus your usual monkeys, and other exotic animals.  For the best treking, you will need a guide.  They are put out when you deny a couple extra men the job of carrying food and camping equipment.  Carry your own pack, but enjoy the pleasure of a nice tent and good meals at night. Also, be prepared to cross or travel in steam beds.  Sometimes the only way up a trail is by walking in a stream.  Sneakers are great.  Waterproof camera bags also recommended; so is a big bandana around your neck.  You’ll need both. Great traveling, Greg – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We are going on a backpacking excursion through SE Asia (Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia, China, Brunei, Singapore) for about 6 months. We think that we would like to have a very open itinerary, i.e.-fly to Bangkok, get around however we see fit, and then fly home whenever we’ve had enough. Our options seem to be an open-jaw to a central place like Bangkok, or one of the around-the-world type flights (which may be too restrictive for us). We’re planning everything else well, but are having trouble deciding how to actually fly. Any help or ideas out there? There are so many bucket shops offering deals, it becomes overwhelming. Thanks for all the help we’ve recieved from this newsgroup! Kevin Oppenheimer, D.V.M. and Sandy Raders, D.V.M. To reply by email, please remove "NOSPAM" from address Once you go Mac, you’ll never go back. "The curious thing about fishing is that you never want to go home. If you catch something, you can’t stop. If you don’t catch anything, you hate to leave in case something might bite."

Response:

We are going on a backpacking excursion through SE Asia (Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia, China, Brunei, Singapore) for about 6 months. We think that we would like to have a very open itinerary, i.e.-fly to Bangkok, get around however we see fit, and then fly home whenever we’ve had enough. Our options seem to be an open-jaw to a central place like Bangkok, or one of the around-the-world type flights (which may be too restrictive for us). We’re planning everything else well, but are having trouble deciding how to actually fly. Any help or ideas out there? There are so many bucket shops offering deals, it becomes overwhelming. Thanks for all the help we’ve recieved from this newsgroup! Kevin Oppenheimer, D.V.M. and Sandy Raders, D.V.M. To reply by email, please remove "NOSPAM" from address Once you go Mac, you’ll never go back. "The curious thing about fishing is that you never want to go home. If you catch something, you can’t stop. If you don’t catch anything, you hate to leave in case something might bite."

Question:

Just read an article in my local paper about the NY DEC stocker trucks dumping their annual loads of browns and bows into the local rivers. 8" one year olds and up to 16" two year olds. i welcome a discussion on this program. i’ve heard a lot of pros and cons on this issue. one point is that is provides a lot of fun (if you like to catch dumb stockers), and that fishing pressure neccesitates the stocking program. the counterpoint (which i agree with), is that the inferior stocker fish dilute the gene pool and compete with wild fish for food. the solution seems to be more no kill zones on rivers so the population is not deleted in a single season. i’ve seen this work on rivers in the west where i used to live, and the result was a healthy population of wild fish that were a little harder to catch, but worth the result. in the state of washington where i used to live, the state’s policy is put and take, and they spend millions of dollars and employ thousands of state workers to dump gujillions of fish into the state’s waters. in more enlightened states (MT for example), its been shown that reasonable management of wild fish can result in a plentiful and healthy population. personally i’m not crazy about catching trout with raw noses from living in such tight quarters in the breeding tanks. the wild fish are much healthier and prettier. comments and complaints please. stephen in ny

Response:

As a fellow New Yorker, I pretty much concur with Stephen.  With the vast financial resources of NY State, I think the fishery can do a much better job. While I’m strongly in favor of better stream/river management–a la "no kill/artificial only" to help build healthier and more ‘wild’ trout bases, I also believe that keeping some ‘Put and Take’ spots is critical.  NY should continue to heavily stock parts of streams/rivers near significant population bases where young kids can still have an opportunity to catch fish with worms and bring ‘em home for dinner.   This is what gets kids interested in the outdoors.  Sooner or later they appreciate the ’sport’ of fly fishing, just like the rest of us did, and don’t have a need to keep everything.   For example, I live in the Albany area.  There’s a ton of chatter about state of the Battenkill.  I think the DEC should stock the stream with healthy browns, and then restrict the ENTIRE river in NY to catch and release/artificial only.  Over the next few years, assuming people don’t keep anything, this river ought to bounce back.  Most of the Battenkill winds through very rural areas, so there isn’t a huge population base thats really affected by the change in policy. At the same time, the DED should continue stocking the Kaydeross and Geyser Creeks, understanding that ninety percent of those fish are going to be fried for dinner. The Battenkill becomes the classic trout tream it once was, and the Kaydeross is the stream we all grew up with… My two cents, but NY, has large opportunities for improvement. Pete

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Question:

Yes and no. ) Frank (it ain’t me in Elkhart) Church – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The good Senator and I were not related and didn’t share the same politics either. Of course that’s JUST what we could expect you to say under the circumstances! Got any ID bub?  Would you agree to a DNA analysis?    

Response:

This post was posted to a UK fishing group.  I thought it might interest some of you.  I am sure the original posters will not mind me copying it, as I have corresponded with them both in the past. TL MC I realize this is a bit off-topic, but my daughter saw this and asked me to ask ‘the nice British fisherman’ about it. The Canadian News has picked up a story about a journalist who was literally branded by the "ALF" (Animal Liberation Front?) . Is this true? Are these the same nutters who attack fisherman and throw bricks at their floats, smash their rods, etc? If they are, it’s very chilling. It’s one thing to disagree. Another to actually take hot iron to a man’s back for disagreeing.

Peter, Sadly it’s true The journalist in question had written, exposing some of the more extremist members of the ALF.  He was kidnapped and held in fear of his life.  Hooded with a hesian sack, he expected execution.  When he felt the pain, and smelled the burning flesh, he realised he had been branded.  A.L.-F across his back in very large letters.  I guess that the perpetuators felt that this was only a small payback for the pain and suffering caused daily to animals in laboratories etc.  Sick, sick, sick and twisted people The extremists in the Animals Rights and Anti-angling circles tend to be the same small group of people, surrounded both by harmless nutters and well-meaning (we would think misguided) people.

Response:

Anbody wishing to see the original article: Click on the following link and then ‘Britain’: http://www.the-times.co.uk/news/pages/Times/frontpage.html?999 The article is about a quarter of the way down the page. TL MC

Response:

This post was posted to a UK fishing group.  I thought it might interest some of you.  I am sure the original posters will not mind me copying it, as I have corresponded with them both in the past. TL MC

ALF is a terrorist group, no debate about it.  I find if utterly shocking that these people seem to think that animals are equal or more important than humans.  I can’t imagine where these people get their convictions, but they can’t possibly be healthy, IMO. — Levi Always do sober what you said you’d do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut. –Ernest Hemingway

Response:

ALF is a terrorist group, no debate about it.  I find if utterly shocking that these people seem to think that animals are equal or more important than humans.  I can’t imagine where these people get their convictions, but they can’t possibly be healthy, IMO.

You don’t suppose that they take into account man’s inhumanity to man on this planet and have decided animals act better towards each other?  You know the old saying, "The more I know about people the more I love my cat/dog/sheep/etc etc."  That same feeling creeps up on me more and more often these days. Frank (stirring the pot in Elkhart) Church

Response:

You don’t suppose that they take into account man’s inhumanity to man on this planet and have decided animals act better towards each other?  You know the old saying, "The more I know about people the more I love my cat/dog/sheep/etc etc."  That same feeling creeps up on me more and more often these days. Frank (stirring the pot in Elkhart) Church

Your ommission of Louie LaPlac’s goat, affectionately known as Mildred, will be noted as the insult it is. Mark Faulkner

Response:

Louie, please relay my apologies to Mildred as I would never intentionally insult someone who is obviously adored by you.  Sorry. (think that’ll do it Mark?) Frank (goatbreath) Church – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You don’t suppose that they take into account man’s inhumanity to man on this planet and have decided animals act better towards each other?  You know the old saying, "The more I know about people the more I love my cat/dog/sheep/etc etc."  That same feeling creeps up on me more and more often these days. Frank (stirring the pot in Elkhart) Church Your ommission of Louie LaPlac’s goat, affectionately known as Mildred, will be noted as the insult it is. Mark Faulkner

Response:

Don’t some animals eat their young?  I am also waiting for some Animal Rights Activist to show me a hospital built by animals. Weren’t you a Senator from Idaho before you died? DP – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ALF is a terrorist group, no debate about it.  I find if utterly shocking that these people seem to think that animals are equal or more important than humans.  I can’t imagine where these people get their convictions, but they can’t possibly be healthy, IMO. You don’t suppose that they take into account man’s inhumanity to man on this planet and have decided animals act better towards each other?  You know the old saying, "The more I know about people the more I love my cat/dog/sheep/etc etc."  That same feeling creeps up on me more and more often these days. Frank (stirring the pot in Elkhart) Church

Response:

You don’t suppose that they take into account man’s inhumanity to man on this planet and have decided animals act better towards each other?  You know the old saying, "The more I know about people the more I love my cat/dog/sheep/etc etc. That same feeling creeps up on me more and more often these days.

I guess the fact that many animals routinely kill and eat other animals for sustenance, (sometimes including the young of their own species), doesn’t enter into the equation. George "turning up the fire a notch" Adams

Response:

Don’t some animals eat their young?

Yes, some animals do eat their young, sows can lay on their piglets and suffocate most or all of them, a tomcat will kill every kitten in the litter if he can whup mama cat first, and on and on, but that’s nature’s way, in no way can it be equated with with mans actions.  Screw PETA, ALF and all the rest of these wackos. Weren’t you a Senator from Idaho before you died?

I see you remember Senator Frank Church of Idaho.  Evidently he wasn’t too popular in some quarters in Idaho.  One time I stopped for gas in a small town there, gave the guy my credit card, whereupon after seeing the name on the card, gave me a squinty-eyed look and asked, "are you related to Senator Frank Church?"  I’m not, and said so, but might have denied it in any case as he looked ready to dump sugar in my gas tank or some other dastardly deed.  The good Senator and I were not related and didn’t share the same politics either.

Response:

Absolutely not George, as I stated in an earlier post, equating the animal kingdom which operates on inborn instinct to do what is necessary to survive, to "man" is bogus.  Ascribing human traits to animals is a mistake. So if a tomcat kills the litter of kittens he finds, we are horrified.  But he does that for a reason…..he is "offing" future competition for breeding the available female cats.  But if humans do that, it is mass murder.  The two don’t equate at any level.  My favorite pussy cat, who purrs on my lap and nuzzles me, and makes me feel all warm and fuzzy, will sneak out in the yard and try to kill a bird….she is living in two worlds, ours and hers. If I catch her eating a bird do I beat the shit out of her…no way.  I recognize she still has that hunter instinct of her breed.  We, on the other hand, are supposed to be "civilized," whatever the hell that means in this day and age. Frank (trying to piss on George’s fire) Church

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You don’t suppose that they take into account man’s inhumanity to man on this planet and have decided animals act better towards each other?  You know the old saying, "The more I know about people the more I love my cat/dog/sheep/etc etc. That same feeling creeps up on me more and more often these days. I guess the fact that many animals routinely kill and eat other animals for sustenance, (sometimes including the young of their own species), doesn’t enter into the equation. George "turning up the fire a notch" Adams

Response:

Ascribing human traits to animals is a mistake.

Frank, I guess I misunderstood your your post, because I thought that was exactly what you were doing. (i.e. "good" animals vs. "bad" humans) Animals are niether good nor bad…..they are just animals. A rattlesnake can kill you, and a dog can be your faithful companion for many years, but is the dog "better" than the rattlesnake? I don’t think so….they are what they are. Humans are subject to many failings, and because we have free will we can be held accountable for our actions, and judged by our peers to be good or bad. As more people populate the earth, we will see more of the bad, especially since the media will show it to us at every opportunity.  On the whole, are animals "better" than humans? I say no. George Adams

Response:

I see you remember Senator Frank Church of Idaho.  Evidently he wasn’t too popular in some quarters in Idaho.  One time I stopped for gas in a small town there, gave the guy my credit card, whereupon after seeing the name on the card, gave me a squinty-eyed look and asked, "are you related to Senator Frank Church?"  I’m not, and said so, but might have denied it in any case as he looked ready to dump sugar in my gas tank or some other dastardly deed.  The good Senator and I were not related and didn’t share the same politics either.

Sen. Frank Church was one of the all-time great national figures. He did more for conservation anyone else in politics I can think of, with the possible exception of Teddy Rooseveldt. The Frank Church Wilderness in Idaho is named after him. It’s spectacular, enclosing the finest wilderness river in the lower 48 — the Middle Fork of the Salmon. I’m just sickened by the cast of disreputable characters that have taken over Idaho politics at the national level. I miss you, Frank, and I miss Sen.Chafee of Rhode Island, a Republican who wasn’t afraid to stand up for the public interest. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

You’re right of course, and Sen. Church should have been recognized with having a wilderness area named in his honor, at the least.  I didn’t mean to denigrate him, and hope you didn’t take it that way.  

Of course I didn’t, Frank. I’m sorry to have implied that. The FCWA is some spectacular country that I’d love to see up close and personal, like say, astride a horse on a pack-in flyfishing trip.

What you have to do is to take a week-long raft trip down the Middle Fork. There are other ways to see this country, but a raft (or drift boat) trip is the best. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I see you remember Senator Frank Church of Idaho.  Evidently he wasn’t too popular in some quarters in Idaho.  One time I stopped for gas in a small town there, gave the guy my credit card, whereupon after seeing the name on the card, gave me a squinty-eyed look and asked, "are you related to Senator Frank Church?"  I’m not, and said so, but might have denied it in any case as he looked ready to dump sugar in my gas tank or some other dastardly deed.  The good Senator and I were not related and didn’t share the same politics either. Sen. Frank Church was one of the all-time great national figures. He did more for conservation anyone else in politics I can think of, with the possible exception of Teddy Rooseveldt. The Frank Church Wilderness in Idaho is named after him. It’s spectacular, enclosing the finest wilderness river in the lower 48 — the Middle Fork of the Salmon. I’m just sickened by the cast of disreputable characters that have taken over Idaho politics at the national level. I miss you, Frank, and I miss Sen.Chafee of Rhode Island, a Republican who wasn’t afraid to stand up for the public interest. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

They named the north loop in Dallas the LBJ Freeway in honor of LBJ because they stole all of the land.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sen. Frank Church was one of the all-time great national figures. He did more for conservation anyone else in politics I can think of, with the possible exception of Teddy Rooseveldt. The Frank Church Wilderness in Idaho is named after him. It’s spectacular, enclosing the finest wilderness river in the lower 48 — the Middle Fork of the Salmon. I’m just sickened by the cast of disreputable characters that have taken over Idaho politics at the national level. I miss you, Frank, and I miss Sen.Chafee of Rhode Island, a Republican who wasn’t afraid to stand up for the public interest.

You’re right of course, and Sen. Church should have been recognized with having a wilderness area named in his honor, at the least.  I didn’t mean to denigrate him, and hope you didn’t take it that way.  The FCWA is some spectacular country that I’d love to see up close and personal, like say, astride a horse on a pack-in flyfishing trip. That will probably never happen but at least it’s nice to know it’s there, and waiting. Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RETIRED – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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They named the north loop in Dallas the LBJ Freeway in honor of LBJ because they stole all of the land.

        in view of the fact that "land stealing" is a well known core component of successful capitalism, i should think that lbj would occupy a prime space in your pantheon of heroes, david.         not that i, too, am *not* a capitalist; it just seems that if one is labeled a "democrat" (whatever that is), you refuse to believe that he can also be a capitalist.  i think you will have to admit that materialism is no respecter of political labels. wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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   in view of the fact that "land stealing" is a well known core component of successful capitalism, i should think that lbj would occupy a prime space in your pantheon of heroes, david.

Not to mention the fact that LBJ was a *serious* poon hound<g. — Charlie…

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LBJ because they stole all of the land. My parents house was just a couple of miles north of where they built the LBJ Freeway and in our house it was always refered to as the SOB Freeway. Big Dale

But there was no one better at getting out the cementary vote than LBJ. Whether you were a republican or democrat…if you were dead…you always casted your vote for Lyndon. obroff (this one should be fun): How many believe that LBJ had a hand in the Dallas assassination of JFK? Waldo — Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

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LBJ because they stole all of the land.

My parents house was just a couple of miles north of where they built the LBJ Freeway and in our house it was always refered to as the SOB Freeway. Big Dale

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obroff (this one should be fun): How many believe that LBJ had a hand in the Dallas assassination of JFK? Waldo

Just a note Waldo, the MOSAD ran a full scale scenario of the Dallas shooting with their best marksmen and could not duplicate the event. Their official report said that Oswald didn’t do it.  The KGB didn’t do it and the Kremlin believed Kennedy to be the one man in Washington they could trust to some degree.  I wonder if they have the same faith in Clinton? Remember the quote from the Navigator in Dune?  "…plots within plots, within plots…" — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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Remember the quote from the Navigator in Dune?  "…plots within plots, within plots…"

Wayne, for an old feller you sure seem rather adept with pop culture references. Mu

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In article <Pine.SOL.4.10.9911101035150.17986- Wayne, for an old feller you sure seem rather adept with pop culture references. Mu

Mu, I’ve never been too bashful to steal the good stuff from anybody’s culture!! — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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The good Senator and I were not related and didn’t share the same politics either.

Of course that’s JUST what we could expect you to say under the circumstances! Got any ID bub?  Would you agree to a DNA analysis?    

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How many believe that LBJ had a hand in the Dallas assassination of JFK?

Dallas assassinated an airport?  Huh?  Where was I in ‘63?

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Question:

Why is anyone bothering to answer questions about catfish BAIT? This is FLYFISHING. We don’t use BAIT.

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I have found that a ball of chicken liver on a medium size treble hook works well in most situations.

BBBbbbbbbut chicken liver flies right off the hook when you’re fly fishing.  Fresh pork skin is the best way for the fly fisherman —  * Center for Computational Biology  * Montana State Bozeman  (406) 994-7061  * http://www.nervana.montana.edu/~sandy */

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Hey…. Martha Stuart of Flyfishing <g <g <g Yuk Yuk Yuk !!! Are you still using the Hot Glue gun to tie your flies (I just came across your article from the Disco era) ?. I (obviously) found it amusing as hell….sorry…<g I also saw your foam nymphs in the Umpqua book…congratulations… — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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We don’t use BAIT.

Gary C. "Lie ? Me ? Never!  No, no, no, the truth is far too much fun !" – Captain Hook

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Why is anyone bothering to answer questions about catfish BAIT? This is FLYFISHING. We don’t use BAIT.

    Some of us not only flyfish, but on occasion I personally enjoy sitting down on the old river bank and do some bait chucking while relaxing on a lawn chair…..     For catties, a ball of Valetta cheese works pretty good.  Nothing however beats the good old nightcrawler though for catching the greatest variety of all fish in local streams, lakes, and rivers…..     I guess I should thank who started this thread, the water is a little unwadeable at my favorite flyfishing stream, maybe I’ll have to get my spinning outfits out today and grab a can of worms and go drown some worms this weekend ) –Randy

Response:

Beginning angler, need advice: What would be best live/artificial Baits to catch Catfish & Bass? What should be the best locations in the streams (no current, fast current, ponds, depths, etc…) where Catfish or Bass are concentrated? Thank you very much indeed.

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Brian, I haven’t done alot of catfishing but I ran across a guy the other day and he said he uses a product called junnies (do a search on the web). he said he bought the stuff off the internet and that a catfish guide told him about it he stated that the guide had the maker come fishing with him and they caught 10 to 1 (maker vs. guide). I do alot of creek fishing and catch alot of bass. I use a lure by rebel called a creek hopper. On a good day I catch and relese about 30 (1/2lb to 1 1/2lds) bass and no telling how many sunfish. you can also check: <A HREF="http:www.tn-outdoors.comtn-outdoors.com</A for other fishing and hunting articles. happy fishing Larry

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I have found that a ball of chicken liver on a medium size treble hook works well in most situations. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Beginning angler, need advice: What would be best live/artificial Baits to catch Catfish & Bass? What should be the best locations in the streams (no current, fast current, ponds, depths, etc…) where Catfish or Bass are concentrated? Thank you very much indeed.

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I have a question:  how do you get the chicken livers to stay on the hook.  I got some fresh chicken livers to use for bait and they were the consistancy of mush.  I would have had a better chance of trying to put grape jelly on the hook.  I have heard you can freeze them but this seems like a messy job.   Any suggestions you can give would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have found that a ball of chicken liver on a medium size treble hook works well in most situations. Beginning angler, need advice: What would be best live/artificial Baits to catch Catfish & Bass? What should be the best locations in the streams (no current, fast current, ponds, depths, etc…) where Catfish or Bass are concentrated? Thank you very much indeed.

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Question:

Am planning a family trip to Oahu and keep wondering if I should take along a saltwater outfit. Haven’t been able to find out anything about the practicality of doing so. (Although I know that in some places they do some blue water flyfishing.) Anyway, I would appreciate any info. — Larry

Response:

Hi Larry, Fishing around Oahu is bad.  We have too many fishermen and not enough fish.  This morning’s paper summed it up:

Question:

GRAND CANYON TRIP REPORT (a fictitious account)

 Nicely written/related.  Reading your account makes me yearn for the Canyon.  Hmmmm, wait 17 years, pay $700 plus in fees and risk the no-mercy permit system, or go now, avoid the inane bureaucracy and risk $3000-4000 Happy Boating, Chris Donohue WSU – Pullman, WA "I used up all my sick days, so I’m calling in dead."                                                         – Anonymous

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GRAND CANYON TRIP REPORT (a fictitious account)

Great story;  what an adventure!  But, if the following is true: If one is to plan a clandestined run of the Canyon, best to do it during the off-season when not many people are likely to be encountered.  And of course, don’t get caught.  I hear the fine for running the Canyon without a permit is in the $3000-4000 range!!!   WOWWW!

why not just get a "cancellation permit" and run the river legal? Are there not plenty of open slots off season? — Chris

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GRAND CANYON TRIP REPORT (a fictitious account)

Hummm!!! "Fictitious account"????  Sounds fishy to me.  A few months ago Rocky wants to know from this group how to avoid rangers with radios on the Grand and now this story??!!!?  :-)

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| GRAND CANYON TRIP REPORT (a fictitious account) | | | Hummm!!! "Fictitious account"????  Sounds fishy to me.  A few months ago | Rocky wants to know from this group how to avoid rangers with radios on | the Grand and now this story??!!!?  :-) He was prob’ly just researchin’ the story just like any other fiction writer would. Of course, perhaps there was _other_ research involved in ensuring the story had dramatic impact and audience appeal with a feeling of truth. Let’s see what other tales Rocky comes up with. SYITP (see you in the pool) Ken

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why not just get a "cancellation permit" and run the river legal? Are there not plenty of open slots off season? — Chris

Actually I tried calling over 40 times last fall and didn’t get a cancellation.  They can be had, but it’s getting tougher and tougher to get them.  I don’t think it’s any easier getting cancellations in winter than in other months, because they reserve so few for the off-season anyway. -Rocky

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What would the probablity of success be? ;-

Response:

What would the probablity of success be? ;-

Probability best if you go November or December.  Good if you go January or February, or October.  Next time I hear Joe plans on going in October because there’s no motorized rafts permitted that month and the weather is still pretty warm (highs 80s).   -Rocky

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: why not just get a "cancellation permit" and run the river legal? : Actually I tried calling over 40 times last fall and didn’t get a            ^ : cancellation. : -Rocky Ummm, don’t you mean ‘Joe’ called? Steve — Steve Cramer                     Test Scoring & Reporting Services      Sometimes you never can University of Georgia                    always tell what you Athens, GA 30602-5593                      least expect the most.

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: why not just get a "cancellation permit" and run the river legal? : Actually I tried calling over 40 times last fall and didn’t get a           ^ : cancellation. : -Rocky Ummm, don’t you mean ‘Joe’ called? Steve —

Oh, NO, Rocky didn’t mean "I" as in the first person.  He meant "I" as in an *initial*.  Another initial that Joe uses is "G". Isn’t that right, Rocky? Jackie                                  _                        _   _        _   _                     \                      / /       / /                     \                        "          "                         `                                        ,sSSs,,                         )w/(       ,sSS..)/{)                       <<..       sSSS_v)/                      )<*      sSS[(_]___         o                                                 o                             \     o      o                                              \  o            o                                  `                                                    o           o               o                                                  o GASP! – A forum for Gulf (of Mexico) Area Sea Paddlers http://www.intelenet.net/clubs/gasp/

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GRAND CANYON TRIP REPORT (a fictitious account)      The Grand Canyon is perhaps the finest river trip in the world.  A minimum of 225 miles must be traversed through the canyon to be able to put-in and take-out on roads.  The Colorado runs through the National Park in this area, and a permit is required.  It is a BIG DEAL.  Only approximately 350 private permits are issued per year.  If you put your name on the waiting list last year, you go behind 6000 other permit seekers.  That translates to 6000/350=17 YEARS before you get your permit!!!  Granted, for each permit you can have 20 people and stay in the canyon 14-30 days, but is there a place for the non-wealthy person that wants to go on a shorter trip, alone, or with only one or two others?  Should he/she just wait 17 years for such a permit, and then put to waste all those people spots and extra time that the permit allows?  For some, this is just too outrageous.  Better to become an outlaw and do the run without a permit.      Such was the attitude of one adventure seeker I know ("Joe").   Sometime in December, when a week could be taken off, the trip was planned.  Carefully -mind you.  Timing is critical.  No motorized craft are permitted in the canyon from September 15-December 15.  One doesn’t want a ranger speeding up behind you and catching you.  Such an event happened to me in Canyonlands National Park in 1994 when I was doing a solo trip from Loma to Hite through Cataract Canyon.  It would be nice to be able to locate rangers in the canyon to avoid any contact.  A CB radio was brought along.  At the South Rim, the rangers would not tell Joe what frequency they used.  All he got out of them was "the radios don’t work down in the canyon."  Perhaps they use special frequencies reserved for law enforcement people.  Hence the CB was not taken on the river.  How about put-ins?  Lees Ferry is the normal spot swarming with rangers, though Joe, having never done the Canyon before, didn’t know what the Lees Ferry area looked like.  Instead, he tried to put in 15 miles upstream at Glen Canyon Dam.  Upon arrival at Glen Canyon Dam, he noticed that there was no road down to the river there, and the walls are nearly vertical.  In the Dam visitor center, a kind woman informed Joe that there was a trail down to the river on river left just below the dam, but it was treacherous and takes about a half hour down.  Joe decided that this wasn’t the best idea, so decided to take his chances at Lees Ferry, perhaps launching at night when nobody could see.  Joy entered Joe’s heart when the lady informed him that they were releasing 13000-19000 cfs from the dam.  He had thought there would only be 8000 cfs in the river (as stated on the Colorado Flow Page).   More water = faster travel and funner rapids!      Off to Lees Ferry he went, arriving in the afternoon about 2 pm.   From the highway, a road several miles long leads down to the river at Lees Ferry.  It seemed terribly easy to get down to the river without anybody spotting him.  He settled on a spot by the Paria Riffle, just downstream of the Paria River, by some mobile home type areas, but right next to the water.  There was a nice large parking area and lots of shrubs/trees that the clandestined activitiy of loading the kayak could be accomplished at.  The normal put-in spot could be viewed about a half mile upstream.  The plan was to get everything out/off of the truck (the kayak as quickly as possible, since such a sight is a dead give-away), load up everything into the kayak, then drive back up to the little town of Marble Canyon and find somebody to drive the truck to near the take-out – Las Vegas.  Joe was thinking of finding a party of two or more going to Las Vegas, and having them leave his truck in the Excaliber (or Luxor) parking lot.  Joe would then return to the boat at dusk and launch.  At the takeout (Temple Bar on Lake Mead), he would get a lift into Las Vegas, drive back and pick up the kayak.  Such was the plan.  As he was loading the kayak, a car drove by and then down to the same spot Joe was at.  Very apprehensive at first, Joe hid everything that might give away his planned activity and approached the vehicle.   The Gods were in Joe’s favor!  The vehicle contained three foreigners – an Aussie, an Englishwoman, and an Israeli all in their 20s-early 30s.   Joe asked, "Sightseeing?" and so began a productive conversation.  The three were staying at the hostel in Page and just mosying around seeing whatever there was to see.  Just PERFECT!  Out of Joe’s mouth came the plan to run the river and the need for someone to drive his truck to Las Vegas.  He offered them $40 if they’d do it.  It turns out the Israeli, named Udi, actually was not with the other two, but was just bumming rides from people going around the country.  He had to get to LA in the next couple weeks to fly home.  After about a half hour of thought, Udi agreed to take the truck.  Joe told Udi he’d give him $60 if he went so far as to leave the truck at the take-out (Temple Bar on Lake Mead) instead of Las Vegas, and this he agreed to.  Joe planned 7 more days on the river, and told Udi, "you must have the truck at Temple Bar by dusk eight days from now."    So Joe took off into the wild, still anxious about a ranger spotting him in the first few miles.        Having launched around 3:30 pm the first day, not much distance could be made.  The days are short in December (10 hours of light), so every daylight hour is precious.  Passing the Navajo Bridge after several miles with no signs of rangers, Joe knew he was out of danger.   It grew dark after he had paddled 8 or 9 miles.  Badger Creek rapid was run in twilight.  The next four miles were quite exciting in the dark. Coming up on Soap Creek he noticed a couple lights.  Afraid it might be the law, he avoided contact with the campers, but paddled just past them as the Soap Creek rapid began, pulling over to the side to camp.   Paddling though a rapid such as Soap Creek was not smart in the dark – espially never having seen it before.  Quickly setting up his tent, he settled in for a fine meal of split-pea soup, bread, and cheese (to be had the next two nights as well), with hot chocolate to top it off.   Laying in the sleeping bag, he quickly fell asleep starting to read (around 8 pm).  In the night he heard what sounded like people walking around his tent.  Waking up at 4 am, he continued to read his recently purchased book by JW Powell, "The Exploration of the Colorado and Its Canyons".  In it he read about Powell’s group travelling through Marble Canyon and then reaching the Grand Canyon.  He also brought along "Cadillac Desert" which contained an abundance of information on the politics of water control in the West.        Before the first sign of light, Joe got up and stalked over to where the other campers were.  They must have hiked in, for there was no raft by the river.  And there was only one tent, so not very many people were there.  He wasn’t worried anymore.  He went back and started on a run up Soap Creek Canyon for almost an hour (getting up the canyon probably  2 miles or so before returning).  The water had dropped during the night – he’d be paddling on 13000 cfs today.  Joe went over to meet the camping couple, who were trying their luck at fishing.  He asked if they’d take some video of him going through Soap Creek Rapid, which they obliged him.  He was off at 9 am.   The boat he paddled was an old fiberglass Phoenix, something of a hybrid sea/whitewater kayak – probably about 90 gallons, 14 ft.  It was banged up from other rivers, and had been patched a year ago.  It leaked horribly, the outfitting was falling out (in particular a loose right hip pad), but it was fast.   Luckily Joe brought a sponge and bilge pump, which he had to use every half hour to remove the inch of water that accumulated on the bottom of the kayak.  Such a large boat is not great for playing, but since Joe wasn’t planning on much of that, the Phoenix was an ideal kayak for the journey.  If he had one, a nice sea kayak would have been preferred.   Paddling most of the time he was on the water, very good time was made on the journey.  The second day he made it to Nankoweap (about 42 miles from Soap Creek), passing House Rock Rapid, Stanton’s Cave, and the beautiful Vasey’s Paradise on the way.  Initially he had trouble finding Stanton’s Cave, looking up a gully that was actually just upstream of it.  Giving up after almost an hour of searching, he continued on paddling, only to spot the cave clearly from the river.  It is fenced off inside to help promote the BLACK Bat to roost in there once more.   In the side canyons above Nankoweap several deer were spotted among the mesquite bushes.  Around mile 40 a group of 5-6 rafts was passed (clearly a private party), though no contact was made.  At Nankoweap the guidebook states there is a long rapid (Grand Canyon class 3), but which is really not more than a class one.  Joe tried to camp at side canyons with fun hikes that he would do in the morning, and also ones with driftwood that he could build a small fire for warmth with.  Such was Nankoweap.  Fires are only permitted in the off-season (October through March), and all traces must be removed.  Joe didn’t take out the ashes (very minor amounts), but usually threw them in the river.  Of course Joe did pack out all solid human waste and trash.      The next morning he rose before dawn and started on the run/hike to see the springs a few miles up the canyon, and also the Indian ruins.   The stream here is perennial, with fresh, clear, cold water running down it.  It all originates up at the springs which are a good hike away.   The water seeps out of the ground in several spots up there, and there are many reeds growing around the springs.  Going fast, running much of

… read more »

Response:

    GRAND CANYON TRIP REPORT (a fictitious account)                     <big ol’ snip         realated by Rocky Contos               Thanks for the great story!  Too bad "Joe" is fictictious, sounds like     a hell of a paddler!

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Question:

Will be in Colorado Springs area the 2nd week of May. Some of the literature on the subject seems to suggest that the run-off will be in full swing at that time, and that it will be much more severe than I had assumed it to be. Is this gonna be a "wash-out"?

Response:

Will be in Colorado Springs area the 2nd week of May. Some of the literature on the subject seems to suggest that the run-off will be in full swing at that time, and that it will be much more severe than I had assumed it to be. Is this gonna be a "wash-out"?

If the runoff is high…GO FISHING ! 1) Put some rocks in your pockets (to keep from being swept away). 2) Put on a big ugly bug with eyeballs and rubber legs. 3) Keep the BB sized shot close at hand. Use a lot. 4) Fish the banks. 5) Rid yourself of the mental block that all flyfishing is done in    clear waters. 6) Enjoy the river in its swollen glory.   7) Avoid tailwaters as the crowds and attitudes eventually will ruin it for you. TW

Response:

If the runoff is high…GO FISHING ! 1) Put some rocks in your pockets (to keep from being swept away). 2) Put on a big ugly bug with eyeballs and rubber legs. 3) Keep the BB sized shot close at hand. Use a lot. 4) Fish the banks. 5) Rid yourself of the mental block that all flyfishing is done in   clear waters. 6) Enjoy the river in its swollen glory.   7) Avoid tailwaters as the crowds and attitudes eventually will ruin it for you. TW

Excellant advise T-bone!!  I like someone who can find a reason to fish no matter what.  As my grandfather used to say: "… which would you rather do… or go fishing?" Jack Wheeler

Response:

o  What are the major rivers/other opportunities

You’ll be nearest the upper Colorado River in the Kremmling/Hot Springs area. o  How far are they from Winter Park

Roughly 30 or 45 minutes. o  What are the likely conditions

Runoff varies from year to year.  If the rest of the Winter’s mild, late June should be OK.  Check river conditions at: http://www.infosphere.com/rof/yp/RFAnglers/rfa.htm That’s Glenwood Springs, but it should give you some idea (there are other river flow sources on the Web). o  Who’s the leading outfitter/guide service

Sorry, I’m not familiar with outfitters in that area. o  What’s worth traveling to for an overnight

Again, check out the website above… M

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