Question:

We are approaching critical mass–and a dangerous time–that of sinking poll numbers for Bush, and the revelation of the proofs that the towers were hit by missles from specially outfitted planes, and the proof that the towers came down thru controlled demoliton. That’s more than enough proof.  The website http://www.letsroll911.org is ranked as among the top 25K downloaded sites on the Internet in the past month. But with these two events closing in on the Bush administration, the falling polls, and the complicity of 9/11 getting known, may trigger another attack, and the declaration of martial law, in order to cancel the election, shut down the Internet as we know it, and to clamp down on further discussion of 9/11. Some say we are already in a partial police state,  and some say we now more everything that has been said, the Congress, the military,  the media, does nothing.  Obviously they are persuaded to do nothing. http://www.911sharethetruth.com 9-11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB–OUR NATION IS IN PERIL       – A Call to All True Patriots –    We have actively studied the questionable nature of the official version of what happened to our nation on September 11, 2001. Throughout the first year after 9-11 we ignored and did not believe those who asked us to question the official story. Like millions of Americans we believed America had been attacked by terrorists from abroad. Sadly, we are now convinced that our government committed a vicious criminal act against its own citizens for the larger purpose of swaying us to support both domestic and foreign policies mapped out in the mid and late 1990’s. 9-11 was Hitler’s Reichstag fire of 1933 and Roosevelt’s Pearl Harbor masterfully coordinated to achieve the desired ends of an imperialistic role for America in the world, patriotic support at home and the erosion of our constitutional rights. In a nutshell, the war on terrorism is a cruel hoax by a misguided, out-of-democratic control small group of individuals sabotaging the best of American values. We are in the midst of a constitutional crisis combined with severe domination from an Orwellian corporate media knowingly or unknowingly being of service to the true powerbrokers behind the curtain. We feel like we are living in the "Matrix" where we can blend in, but knowing something is horribly wrong and must be exposed. The quality of life for all of our loved ones is at stake along with the hopes of millions of people for a world of peace, freedom and ecological sustainability. If just a few of you take the time to study a little more and become involved in the 9-11 truth movement we will be greatly appreciative. We strongly feel that people of all progressive movements should involve themselves in this effort to expose the truth about 9-11 and in the greatest push ever from the grassroots to nonviolently replace our current despotic leadership. It would have tremendous positive consequences to all of our progressive movements if similar to the fall of Nixon over Watergate that the Bush administration was exposed on this and replaced. This outrageous criminal act must be brought to justice and our freedoms restored. We need to reach out now to all those who may be willing to hear and break the silence. Go to site for posters, cassettes, buttons… http://www.911sharethetruth.com

Response:

We are approaching critical mass–and a dangerous time–that of sinking poll numbers for Bush, and the revelation of the proofs that the towers were hit by missles from specially outfitted planes, and the proof that the towers came down thru controlled demoliton. That’s more than enough proof.  The website http://www.letsroll911.org is ranked as among the top 25K downloaded sites on the Internet in the past month.

Yep, it was an inside job….the planes blew up INSIDE the buildings. Gee, you are so smart.  You are right about specially outfitted planes… aircraft slamming into the side of a building would go in just like a missle.  And correct again about the controlled demolition…those terrorists must have been really skilled to be able to CONTROL the way they demolished the buildings. By the way numbnuts, watch the footage again.  The buildings did not collapse starting from the bottom.  A controlled demolition would not have been done in the basement, but would have needed to take out at least a dozen floors with the size of the buildings and taken at least a week to plan, and implement.  I think people would have gotten just a mite suspicious with work crews cutting through the structural pilings, setting shaped charges and running primer cord throughout the buildings. The quality of the steel made back when the towers were constructed was poor compared to today.  The structural tolerance was quite low.  The intense heat would collapse the pilings.  And the weight exerted by the upper floors would and did cause the lower ones to fail, causing a cascade failure.  The only way the building would have toppled is if the lower pilings were strong enough to hold back the collapsing upper floors and deflect the path of the fall.  But, as we all saw, it did not. Cease and decist your trolling.  People are getting sick of your freakish extremist "moveon.orgism". GO AWAY!!!!     *PLONK*

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We are approaching critical mass–and a dangerous time–that of sinking poll numbers for Bush, and the revelation of the proofs that the towers were hit by missles from specially outfitted planes, and the proof that the towers came down thru controlled demoliton. That’s more than enough proof.  The website http://www.letsroll911.org is ranked as among the top 25K downloaded sites on the Internet in the past month. But with these two events closing in on the Bush administration, the falling polls, and the complicity of 9/11 getting known, may trigger another attack, and the declaration of martial law, in order to cancel the election, shut down the Internet as we know it, and to clamp down on further discussion of 9/11. Some say we are already in a partial police state,  and some say we now more everything that has been said, the Congress, the military,  the media, does nothing.  Obviously they are persuaded to do nothing. Yup – and yet the media still refuses to even question the wacko bush conspriracy explanation for 9-11.  Thank gof for the net or it would truly be hopeless.

What does gof have to do with anything. — Retired military and damn proud of it.

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Yup – and yet the media still refuses to even question the wacko bush conspriracy explanation for 9-11.  Thank gof for the net or it would truly be hopeless. Indeed.  Being uncensored,

Free press would also be uncensored.                                       the net provides the ideal soapbox for every paranoid conspiracy theorist who knows how to use a keyboard.

Which does not mean that everything on the net or in ng’s that does not conform to your beliefs is conspiracy theory. Expressions like "conspiracy theory" appeal to the irrational side of people, and so serve only to cloud the issues. The official story of 9/11 is also a conspiracy theory: several people conspired to execute the attacks; and the story is no more than a theory because there is only precious little evidence to support it. And of all the conspiracy theories so far presented, the official story is among the silliest. Matti P.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Which does not mean that everything on the net or in ng’s that does not conform to your beliefs is conspiracy theory. This is true.  Yet, just because it does not conform to my beliefs does not automatically mean that it is accurate. Expressions like "conspiracy theory" appeal to the irrational side of people, and so serve only to cloud the issues. The official story of 9/11 is also a conspiracy theory: several people conspired to execute the attacks; and the story is no more than a theory because there is only precious little evidence to support it. Perhaps then I should have used the full term "paranoid conspiracy theory" – addressing those ideas that attempt to explain facts that have already been explained, but in a far more bizarre and usually convoluted manner that reassures the wannabe Fox Mulder that The Truth Really Is Out There, and that THEY do not want you to know about it.  It is really only a desire on the part of the theorist to demonstrate their ability to outwit THEM, despite all the barriers THEY supposedly put in the theorists’ way.

I understood your point; just wanted to clarify terms. And of all the conspiracy theories so far presented, the official story is among the silliest. Oh, by no means.  In my experience, by far the silliest theory yet put forward is by the Paranoid Conspiracy Theorists (PCTs) themselves.

Please note: I said "among the silliest", not "the silliest". Matti P. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -This is the notion that the attack on the Pentagon was carried out not by a terrorist in a hijacked 767, but by a remote-controlled drone plane or missile, packed with explosives and painted (this is priceless) in American Airlines livery to fool onlookers (who presumably cannot tell the difference between a liner and a missile or fighter), whilst the actual 767 was landed at an airport nearby having been flown OVER the Pentagon in the confusion.  The passengers were later ‘disappeared’ by the CIA. There are more holes in this ludicrous ‘explanation’ than in a standard fishing net – and yet it is passed reverently from PCT to PCT as though it is some holy gospel of truth.  In comparison to that, at least to those who have even the slightest grip on the real world, the official line, whilst perhaps open to question in some areas, seems to make far more sense. — Midjis

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Which does not mean that everything on the net or in ng’s that does not conform to your beliefs is conspiracy theory. This is true.  Yet, just because it does not conform to my beliefs does not automatically mean that it is accurate. Expressions like "conspiracy theory" appeal to the irrational side of people, and so serve only to cloud the issues. The official story of 9/11 is also a conspiracy theory: several people conspired to execute the attacks; and the story is no more than a theory because there is only precious little evidence to support it. Perhaps then I should have used the full term "paranoid conspiracy theory" – addressing those ideas that attempt to explain facts that have already been explained, but in a far more bizarre and usually convoluted manner that reassures the wannabe Fox Mulder that The Truth Really Is Out There, and that THEY do not want you to know about it.  It is really only a desire on the part of the theorist to demonstrate their ability to outwit THEM, despite all the barriers THEY supposedly put in the theorists’ way. And of all the conspiracy theories so far presented, the official story is among the silliest. Oh, by no means.  In my experience, by far the silliest theory yet put forward is by the Paranoid Conspiracy Theorists (PCTs) themselves.  This is the notion that the attack on the Pentagon was carried out not by a terrorist in a hijacked 767, but by a remote-controlled drone plane or missile, packed with explosives and painted (this is priceless) in American Airlines livery to fool onlookers (who presumably cannot tell the difference between a liner and a missile or fighter), whilst the actual 767 was landed at an airport nearby having been flown OVER the Pentagon in the confusion.  The passengers were later ‘disappeared’ by the CIA. There are more holes in this ludicrous ‘explanation’ than in a standard fishing net – and yet it is passed reverently from PCT to PCT as though it is some holy gospel of truth.  In comparison to that, at least to those who have even the slightest grip on the real world, the official line, whilst perhaps open to question in some areas, seems to make far more sense. — Midjis

But there is conclusive physical evidence that no 767 hit the Pentagon, in fact no evidence of fusilage of any plane found.. The fact that two, one piece that does not match photographed on the lawn points to conspiracy. There was no American Airlines flight 77 scheduled to fly that day. There is conclusive physical evididence that no  passenger jet plane hit the 1st tower or penetrated it. {The film shown shown the following day  9/12, was  crudely edited.  You can see it by looking for the evidence "first plane")  There is only three small holes in the building, none greater that a few feet. There was no American Airlines flight 11 scheduled to fly that day.  What few eye witnesses say a very small plane, holding no more than 10-12 seats, or "a missle with wings".  Check out the examination of that flight and the photos  on thewebfairy.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The sheer volume of web articles devoted to the idea that there is ‘conclusive physical evidence’ of anything of the sort is absolutely staggering.  Particularly since there is no such evidence. Patently false. Yes, it is easy to say that, is it not?  But I would be interested to see you provide some of this supposed evidence – and try to do slightly better than the photos you directed me to in the other thread. — Midjis ~~ ama semper quisquis noces

Blow me.

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The sheer volume of web articles devoted to the idea that there is ‘conclusive physical evidence’ of anything of the sort is absolutely staggering.  Particularly since there is no such evidence. Patently false. Yes, it is easy to say that, is it not?  But I would be interested to see you provide some of this supposed evidence – and try to do slightly better than the photos you directed me to in the other thread.

http://www.aeronautics.ru/img/img006/sweetdeal_title.jpg This one doesn’t NECCESARILY prove anything, other than that a KC-767 prototype did in fact exist, but it’s very telling nevertheless. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Midjis ~~ ama semper quisquis noces

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Question:

I know this isn’t the right group to post this on, but I’m too impatient to go through the hassle of subscribing to another newsgroup just for one (for now) question.  And a lot of you do regreational flying, so might be more familiar with this issue. I have read FAR 73 here: http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/cfrhtml_00/Title_14/14cfr73_00.html and cannot find where it describes, specifies, or even implies what sorts of areas are restricted or prohibited.  Am I missing something? This came up in a discussion at work on fishing remote lakes.  The fisherman in question thinks it’s illegal to fly in to certain remote lakes, say in designated wilderness areas, wildlife refuges, National parks, etc.  I think he’s right, but where can I see what specifically is allowed, and what areas specifically are restricted or prohibited? David

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That information is depicted graphically on the aviation charts, and temporary restrictions are published in the NOTAMS (notices to airmen). Best regards, Rob Housman

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know this isn’t the right group to post this on, but I’m too impatient to go through the hassle of subscribing to another newsgroup just for one (for now) question.  And a lot of you do regreational flying, so might be more familiar with this issue. I have read FAR 73 here: http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/cfrhtml_00/Title_14/14cfr73_00.html and cannot find where it describes, specifies, or even implies what sorts of areas are restricted or prohibited.  Am I missing something? This came up in a discussion at work on fishing remote lakes.  The fisherman in question thinks it’s illegal to fly in to certain remote lakes, say in designated wilderness areas, wildlife refuges, National parks, etc.  I think he’s right, but where can I see what specifically is allowed, and what areas specifically are restricted or prohibited? David

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Check with the manageing agency for the area you want to fly into.  The BLM, Forest Service, etc.  These governmental agencies set the regs for use within their holdings.  I don’t think the FAA has an interest in your question. To partially answer though, no motorized vehicles or even bicycles are allowed in designated USFS wilderness areas.  This would include aircraft landing or taking off.  Some refuges are restricted, some aren’t, an example being some located in Alaska.  Anyway, for specific restrictions, check with the managment.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know this isn’t the right group to post this on, but I’m too impatient to go through the hassle of subscribing to another newsgroup just for one (for now) question.  And a lot of you do regreational flying, so might be more familiar with this issue. I have read FAR 73 here: http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/cfrhtml_00/Title_14/14cfr73_00.html and cannot find where it describes, specifies, or even implies what sorts of areas are restricted or prohibited.  Am I missing something? This came up in a discussion at work on fishing remote lakes.  The fisherman in question thinks it’s illegal to fly in to certain remote lakes, say in designated wilderness areas, wildlife refuges, National parks, etc.  I think he’s right, but where can I see what specifically is allowed, and what areas specifically are restricted or prohibited? David

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Question:

Hi All, September kicks off the Fall season in a few fisheries. The Pit River has the Isonychia mayfly hatch in September and is the best trout stream fishing in California. The Klamath River has a good run of Halfpounder Steelhead in September too. Either of these fisheries could be great places for a Clave. Not much else gets going till October which is one of the top months of the year. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone interested in a Norhtern California Clave in early September? Drop me a line, Dustin Rocksvold

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Keep me up to date… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone interested in a Norhtern California Clave in early September? Drop me a line, Dustin Rocksvold

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Anyone interested in a Norhtern California Clave in early September? Drop me a line, Dustin Rocksvold

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Anyone interested in a Norhtern California Clave in early September?

All depends on whether or not I switch jobs.  That’s the begining of the school year so I won’t be able to get someone to teach for me.  But NorCal is close enough that I might be able to show up for the weekend. Mu

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Question:

Anyone ever read the Randall Kaufmann book  "Lake Fishing with a Fly" or the Deke Meyer book "Float Tube Fly Fishing"?  What do you think?  Are they useful books?

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I will state right off the bat that I am biased by having Randall as a close and valued friend. Lake Fishing with a fly is an excellent book, in my opinion, as it peels away some of the layers of mystery many anglers have concerning "Stillwater". (Misnomer of a term, but anyway) Many anglers are intimidated by a seemingly large flat expanse of water in front of them and the idea of "reading’ water is often the biggest challenge.. simply just knowing where to start the biggest challenge. As a result most just sort of give up and flail away at the nearest section of lake shore awaiting a hungry fish. Lake Fishing with a fly provides invaluable information that breaks down lakes and explains them so we can understand them in a way akin to a stream or river. There is a wealth of information and closely followed the book will help any angler be more successful in catching trout in lakes. I highly recommend it. The Mike Stidham illustrations are outstanding too. Just my thoughts, others may disagree. I haven’t read Deke Meyers Book. Clark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone ever read the Randall Kaufmann book  "Lake Fishing with a Fly" or the Deke Meyer book "Float Tube Fly Fishing"?  What do you think?  Are they useful books?

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Anyone ever read the Randall Kaufmann book  "Lake Fishing with a Fly" or the Deke Meyer book "Float Tube Fly Fishing"?  What do you think?  Are they useful books?

Greetings Rob:   I’ve read Kaufmann’s _Lake Fishing with a Fly_, and I think it’s a pretty good read.  Good basic information, and written in a style I enjoy.  I also like Kaufmann’s fly tying books, FWIW. ‘Sorry, I’m not familiar with the other book.   Cheers, and happy reading.  -Mark

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I have read them both. They are both good books, but I think serve different niches. Just a point, "Lake Fishing With A Fly" was written by Ron Cordes and Randall Kaufmann. The Deke Meyer book has some good informaiton on alpine fishing. It covers a lot of species I never fish for, such as bass and bluegill (we don’t have ‘em up here), so it use is somewhat limited for me. Also, it has a pretty limited section on flies. It does have some good tips on useing float tubes. The Cordes and Kaufmann boolk has more information about trout. Very limited informaiton on float tubes, but good general infomation on fishing techniques. It has some color plates, a good discussion of trout food, etc. If trout is what you are after, this would be the better book. My personal preference for a stillwater fishing book is Morris and Chan on Fly Fishing Trout Lakes. Tjhis has very good information, the infomation is organized well, and the book has very nice color photos. It has very good inforamtion on water craft, and lots of nice fly patterns. This book has become my personal favorite for lake fishing. Tim Lysyk

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone ever read the Randall Kaufmann book  "Lake Fishing with a Fly" or the Deke Meyer book "Float Tube Fly Fishing"?  What do you think?  Are they useful books?

Response:

If you can find a copy in your area "The Ghillie" has become the bible of still water trouting in British Columbia. It has excellent sections on fishing all of the still water hatches. Al.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have read them both. They are both good books, but I think serve different niches. Just a point, "Lake Fishing With A Fly" was written by Ron Cordes and Randall Kaufmann. The Deke Meyer book has some good informaiton on alpine fishing. It covers a lot of species I never fish for, such as bass and bluegill (we don’t have ‘em up here), so it use is somewhat limited for me. Also, it has a pretty limited section on flies. It does have some good tips on useing float tubes. The Cordes and Kaufmann boolk has more information about trout. Very limited informaiton on float tubes, but good general infomation on fishing techniques. It has some color plates, a good discussion of trout food, etc. If trout is what you are after, this would be the better book. My personal preference for a stillwater fishing book is Morris and Chan on Fly Fishing Trout Lakes. Tjhis has very good information, the infomation is organized well, and the book has very nice color photos. It has very good inforamtion on water craft, and lots of nice fly patterns. This book has become my personal favorite for lake fishing. Tim Lysyk Anyone ever read the Randall Kaufmann book  "Lake Fishing with a Fly" or the Deke Meyer book "Float Tube Fly Fishing"?  What do you think?  Are they useful books?

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Question:

I use a Madriver Tahoe(14Ft). Weighs 52 pounds-easy enough to handle by myself. This is a recreational canoe-wide,and with good primary stability- really good for trips with small children and dogs.

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can somebody recomend a good canoe 12′-15′ long and really light under $600 primarily used for fishing thanks chris

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can somebody recomend a good canoe 12′-15′ long and really light under $600 primarily used for fishing thanks chris

Chris,  You want some initial stability…to give you that casting platform. I’d go with a light kevlar or some kind of composite in a wide hull. I love dynamically designed hulls, but I just haven’t paddled anything       lightweight in a medium to narrow width with the secondary stability that’s necessary to avoid hair-raising adventures with any sudden movements or just wind.  Kevlar, or anything else that would be light is just not cheap_$$$, I’d go the USED route.  Be energetic in your search…and you should find something via the web. $.02, Steve

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can somebody recomend a good canoe 12′-15′ long and really light under $600 primarily used for fishing thanks chris

I use an Old Town Pack, 12 foot long, 33 pounds, on lakes and slow rivers.  New they are near $600, but I got mine used for <$300, including a lovely bent shaft paddle.  I have not had a problem with primary or secondary stability for fishing (YMMV).  I use it for both casting and trolling, while my husband has used it for flyfishing (but not as successfully).  I have found that me, 6 Ft or shorter rods work best in small canoes or kayaks.  Get a nice anchor and a brush anchor too.  Enjoy. Pam in Iowa

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Question:

If you try "aggressive wading" where I fish in England, you will either be ejected by a very angry bailiff or you will drown within 3 feet of the bank.

Hello Peter, Thanks for the moral support. We Brits must stick together:-) — Bill

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Bill No problem. Maybe we should start our own NG, maybe call it "uk.rec.fishing.game"?? — Regards Peter (Please also reply by email, my server "loses" posts. Remove nospam to email)

 Hello Peter, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Thanks for the moral support. We Brits must stick together:-) — Bill

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Cigars or cigarettes are a strictly a no-no on the stream!   If you really want to "put on the dog" and fool the other flyfishermen into thinking that you know what you’re doing out on the stream, it is absolutely mandatory that you smoke a pipe.

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Cigars or cigarettes are a strictly a no-no on the stream!… …it is absolutely mandatory that you smoke a pipe. Negative. Chew tobacco or snuff. No smoke.

I would, but that Copenhagen keeps clogging my bong. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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  Well, I just had to add my 2 cents. Ain’t free speech wonderful?   JonCook.

Yeah, but it sounds to me like you’re jonesin’ for a butt. -tgades — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html NOTICE: DO NOT ADD MY NAME TO _ANY_ MAILING LISTS.  

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -: Cigars or cigarettes are a strictly a no-no on the stream!… : …it is absolutely mandatory that you smoke a pipe. : : Negative. Chew tobacco or snuff. No smoke. Yeah, yeah, they’re all the *cool* thing to do. You ain’t a *cool* flyfisherman without it. That is, until you can’t wade ’cause you’re draggin’ an oxygen bottle, or speakin’ through an electro-voice, or half your lower lip is missin’. (snip) . There is no form that is safe. The corporations that sell tobacco pursue highly deceitful campaigns designed to addict you to their product and to make large profits off of you for the rest of your albeit shorter life." Well, I just had to add my 2 cents. Ain’t free speech wonderful? JonCook.

OK Jon, you’re right.  That having been said, I am in the snuff catagory.   Can’t fish without it.  Besides, think how much I’ll save Medicare when I croak earlier than the other baby-boomers. Mark Faulkner

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OK Jon, you’re right.  That having been said, I am in the snuff catagory. Can’t fish without it.  Besides, think how much I’ll save Medicare when I croak earlier than the other baby-boomers. Mark Faulkner

Yup.  I’ve got to have a big chaw of Beechnut Wintergreen every other trip or so.   All that spitting cleanses the soul.   Now as for those trendy yuppies who like to wrap their lips around a big, fat, long cigar….  uh… never mind.   I think a certain Brian Keith covered that one already.   Bob Scott

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As a nonsmoker, I was just kidding about the pipe thing, but you have to admit that pipesmoking fly fisherman have that air about them.                To all you 15 year olds who may have read my post and then got the urge to light up, all I can say is "Just say no".

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Cigars or cigarettes are a strictly a no-no on the stream!   If you really want to "put on the dog" and fool the other flyfishermen into thinking that you know what you’re doing out on the stream, it is absolutely mandatory that you smoke a pipe.

LOL!   Reminds me of an oft quoted saying my sis and I used during the huge influx of yuppie fly fishers a few years ago: "It doesn’t matter if you catch fish, as long as you look good." Max

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : : Cigars or cigarettes are a strictly a no-no on the stream!… : …it is absolutely mandatory that you smoke a pipe. : : Negative. Chew tobacco or snuff. No smoke. Yeah, yeah, they’re all the *cool* thing to do. You ain’t a *cool* flyfisherman without it. That is, until you can’t wade ’cause you’re draggin’ an oxygen bottle, or speakin’ through an electro-voice, or half your lower lip is missin’. This isn’t directed at you, Jim, but at the whole thread. Geez, fellas, I thought we left this kinda talk back in high school. "Mandatory"? Give me a break. If you want to go smoke a pipe, fine, but there’s probably some 15-year olds reading this thread. For their sake, I’m going to add, "Tobacco, in any form, is highly addictive and cancerous. There is no form that is safe. The corporations that sell tobacco pursue highly deceitful campaigns designed to addict you to their product and to make large profits off of you for the rest of your albeit shorter life." Well, I just had to add my 2 cents. Ain’t free speech wonderful? JonCook.

   Yeah and cheap too. At least you know the value of your comments.

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Mr. Robert R. Hergan wrote Cigars or cigarettes are a strictly a no-no on the stream!   If you really want to "put on the dog" and fool the other flyfishermen into thinking that you know what you’re doing out on the stream, it is absolutely mandatory that you smoke a pipe.

I’m sorry I don’t know the author of the following, but it’s a clever little ditty I encountered years ago and seems apropos. Tobacco is a filthy weed …I like it! It satisfies no common need …I like it! It’ll make ya fat    It’ll make ya lean It’ll take the hair right off your bean It’s the worst darn stuff I’ve ever seen …. …. …I like it!

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Fri, 24 Apr 1998 in rec.outdoors.fishing.fly, A. Gades Yeah, but it sounds to me like you’re jonesin’ for a butt.

Pardon me…? — Phil Jones

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Fri, 24 Apr 1998 in rec.outdoors.fishing.fly, A. Gades Yeah, but it sounds to me like you’re jonesin’ for a butt. Pardon me…?

A FAG Phil….?  Or does that also have a *peculiar* connotation? — Bill

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Which is worse, kid flyfishing smoking a cigar, or kid standing on street corner selling and using crack? Its coming to something when the original poster can’t ask a question (free speech??) without an anti jumping down his throat! — Regards Peter (Please also reply by email, my server "loses" posts. Remove nospam to email)

 This isn’t directed at you, Jim, but at the whole thread. Geez, fellas, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I thought we left this kinda talk back in high school. "Mandatory"? Give me a break. If you want to go smoke a pipe, fine, but there’s probably some 15-year olds reading this thread. For their sake, I’m going to add, "Tobacco, in any form, is highly addictive and cancerous. There is no form that is safe. The corporations that sell tobacco pursue highly deceitful campaigns designed to addict you to their product and to make large profits off of you for the rest of your albeit shorter life." Well, I just had to add my 2 cents. Ain’t free speech wonderful? JonCook.

Response:

If you try "aggressive wading" where I fish in England, you will either be ejected by a very angry bailiff or you will drown within 3 feet of the bank. Whilst I would agree that distance casting isn’t always necessary, it is an extremely useful tool to have at your disposal when required. Get some casting tuition so that you can cover the fish without extensive destruction of the river bed and fauna. If a fish is rising 25 yards out in a lake, unless you can walk on water you need to be able to cast to it. — Regards Peter Kay (Remove "nospam" to email)

:writes :aggressive wading :as being one of the basics to successful fly fishing. :In unfamliar water this activity is both dangerous and unnecessary. If :you intend wading deep, consider an automatically inflating vest – they :save lives! The further out you wade the further out go the fish! : :Tight lines :– :Bill

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writes aggressive wading as being one of the basics to successful fly fishing.

In unfamliar water this activity is both dangerous and unnecessary. If you intend wading deep, consider an automatically inflating vest – they save lives! The further out you wade the further out go the fish! Tight lines — Bill

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Hi Ken, If you are moderately serious about fly fishing (meaning you have gone enough times to become addicted and know that this isn’t a passing fad!) I too recommend the Sage DS II starter set.  I bought one several years ago after upgrading from fiberglass.   I have been fly fishing 25+ years and it was a great rod to transition into the world of graphite with.  The price was right too.  At the time, it was $225 but I think it runs about $275 now.  This is a rod that you will be able to use all of your fishing life and I think that is an important variable to consider.   Another rod to look at if the above is more then you want to spend is the St. Croix line of rods.  Good stuff for less money.

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writes aggressive wading as being one of the basics to successful fly fishing. In unfamliar water this activity is both dangerous and unnecessary.

[deleted] pussy. — TimW Halfordian Golfer & Expert at removing water from 35mm SLR’s.

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Aggressive wading, I love it – a few less fishermen – a few more fish. Love to get you down here in a couple of rivers I know to go aggressive wading, better wrap your cigar in something waterproof first. — Tony Bishop Fish with Bish Taupo, New Zealand http://bishfish.co.nz – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes aggressive wading as being one of the basics to successful fly fishing. In unfamliar water this activity is both dangerous and unnecessary. [deleted] pussy. — TimW Halfordian Golfer & Expert at removing water from 35mm SLR’s.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My name is Ken Hochdanner, from Columbus, Ohio.  I’m new to fly fishing and would appreciate some advise as to the rod and reel to start with.  Also, I need some advise with respect to waders/hip boots.  Which should I consider buying.  I listen to you guys talk, and I hear a lot about aggressive wading as being one of the basics to successful fly fishing. Thanks in advance for the reply.  Oh, one more thing. Is it OK to smoke a cigar or two along with fly fishing? Thanks, Ken

     First things first, smole em if you gotem, if it were up to me it would be required. Next, rod reel. Agood starter setup from one of the mail order houses such as Cabela’s, L.L.Bean, or Orvis in the 6 to 8 wt class should get you started without hocking the wife and kids and give you a chance to see if you REALLY like it. That weight range in a 7 to 9′ rod is easy to learn with and most beginner sets are complete enough to add leader and fly (everything but fish). They all have websites.                                                           John Popp                                                         in Sanford Fl.

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pussy.

Is this Adult Sex spam? Re the deep wading, I advise caution on the basis of an observed recent total immersion, redeemed by the employment of an automatically inflated vest. The unfortunate angler regrettably made no coherent notes of the fish population while he was submerged! Best wishes Mr Walker, — Bill

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Hi, Ken. Yes indeed there are many variables. Since you’re new, you probably don’t know what kind of fishing you’ll be doing. Take a class and try different rods to get a sense of it all. Even, here, though, you may not get a good sense of what you want out of fishing. I do some instructing, and my usual advice is to buy a starter set, particularly the sage starter, which is a 9 foot, 5 weight system in the Discovery Series of rods. This is an EXCELLENT rod that you can use anywhere, rivers, lakes, even stealhead (if they aren’t too big), some saltwater (wash the reel afterwards, and look out for kings). The line isn’t terrific, buy you probably won’t know this until you wear out the line and year from now. The reel is OK. The store person will set up the line, backing, leader, tippet for you (but you should eventually learn how to do this yourself). The whole set is something like $300, which in modern flyfishing terms is a good deal considering all the different components you fish. Everyone who has taken my advice have been very happy with the decision. In fact, when my rod breaks, I’ll probably buy the DS rod myself (and I’ve played with nearly all of them). This sport is ripe with marketing hype, myth and related BS–meaning you don’t need to spend a lot of money to be successful and happy with the sport. And, I forgot, spend a bunch of time in the library soaking up books on fish and fish habitats and less on your gear. In the end you’ll be smarter and happier fisher. The end, toney

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My name is Ken Hochdanner, from Columbus, Ohio.  I’m new to fly fishing and would appreciate some advise as to the rod and reel to start with.  Also, I need some advise with respect to waders/hip boots.  Which should I consider buying.  I listen to you guys talk, and I hear a lot about aggressive wading as being one of the basics to successful fly fishing. Thanks in advance for the reply.  Oh, one more thing. Is it OK to smoke a cigar or two along with fly fishing? Thanks, Ken

Response:

My name is Ken Hochdanner, from Columbus, Ohio.  I’m new to fly fishing and would appreciate some advise as to the rod and reel to start with.  Also, I need some advise with respect to waders/hip boots.  Which should I consider buying.  I listen to you guys talk, and I hear a lot about aggressive wading as being one of the basics to successful fly fishing. Thanks in advance for the reply.  Oh, one more thing. Is it OK to smoke a cigar or two along with fly fishing?

Ken, …and then I’ll tell you the story of the world in five minutes:-) There are SOOOO many variables that it’s hard to start.   What are you fishing for?   How much do you have to spend?   How much time do you plan to spend on it?   Are you really into fishing in other ways, or is this something totally new to you? Waders vrs hip boots.    I’d go with waders AND SOS suspenders, or the equivalent, for safety.   The only thing I’ve used my hip boots for in the last ten years is putting my boat in and taking it out. "…aggressive wading…"   As you’ve seen, there’s been a lot of discussion about that term.    Suffice it to say that what the author most likely meant was that one should do a lot of repositioning and wading to get into a good spot to cast, rather than make long casts.   (Not all of us agree, or only agree partially.) Smoking: due more to 35+ years of experience than any natural talent, it’s a rare day when I, my sister and my brother-in-law don’t catch more fish than anyone else on the stream or lake, and we each smoke about a pack of cigarettes a day.   My biggest problem with it is having my leader or tippet hit the coal of my smoke…instant break.   Another problem is that it is almost axiomatic that when you’re taking it easy in a float tube, the fish wait until you’re busy lighting up to strike…I guess that’s some kind of fish humor…   (I sometimes put a bit of shrimp oil on nymphs, but haven’t seen that much difference in results.) There are lots of fishing web sites, including ones in your area, with tons of advice, but feel free to email me with questions.   I’m sure you’ll get a lot of response from those in this newsgroup. Max http://www.inetarena.com/~mwi "…there are only two things in life worth getting excited about, fly fishing is the other one…"

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Question:

Does anyone have contact information for the NY State Guides Association? I would like to find out what the requirements are for certification.

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Does anyone have contact information for the NY State Guides Association? I would like to find out what the requirements are for certification.

Michael, The phone number for NYSOGA is 518 798 1253.  Good luck. James Ehlers NYSOGA Member Uncle Jammer’s Guide Service 1997 Guide of the Year Vermont Fly Fishing, Hunting, River and Woodland Outings http://pobox.com/~uncle

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Mike – Contact the DEC in Raybrooke, NY (area code 518) and they can refer you to the proper office which will mail out an aplication form as well as requirements. What is required for the Backpacking/Hiking & Camping Licence: (If I remember correctly) -Passing a Physical Exam from your Doctor, -Basic First Aid AND Water Safety Course OR  Advanced First Aid (Includes Water Safety course) -Taking a 2 or 3 hour test at your Regional DEC Office (Core plus area of  specialty  -Climbing/Hiking & Backpacking/Canoeing/Camping…) -Fee of around $50-$75 Good Luck Rick Does anyone have contact information for the NY State Guides Association? I would like to find out what the requirements are for certification.

– ***NOTICE*** Do not use autosend with the spam defeater  Rick Story

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Question:

Ask Kiene about Shad. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’d love some suggestions for locations to fly fish near Sacramento or Napa….. I’m forced to be in the area in the evenings and have all of my fishing gear, but just don’t have the time to make it to the redding area. Thanks for the help, tight lines. Marc! assistants at 800/4000 FLYor better visit the  Kiene’s Fly Shop, 2654 Marconi Avenue, Sacramento, and they will tell you all you need to know. They are great fellows, they know the area and it’s one of the nicest fly shops i have visited! //Thorsten

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I’d love some suggestions for locations to fly fish near Sacramento or Napa….. I’m forced to be in the area in the evenings and have all of my fishing gear, but just don’t have the time to make it to the redding area. Thanks for the help, tight lines.

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I’d love some suggestions for locations to fly fish near Sacramento or Napa….. I’m forced to be in the area in the evenings and have all of my fishing gear, but just don’t have the time to make it to the redding area. Thanks for the help, tight lines.

Marc! assistants at 800/4000 FLYor better visit the  Kiene’s Fly Shop, 2654 Marconi Avenue, Sacramento, and they will tell you all you need to know. They are great fellows, they know the area and it’s one of the nicest fly shops i have visited! //Thorsten

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I’d love some suggestions for locations to fly fish near Sacramento or Napa….. I’m forced to be in the area in the evenings and have all of my fishing gear, but just don’t have the time to make it to the redding area. Thanks for the help, tight lines.

Marc! Kiene’s Fly Shop, 2654 Marconi Avenue, Sacramento, or call him or his assistants at 800/4000 FLY and they will tell you all you need to know. //Thorsten

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Question:

I planted creeping phlox 3 yrs. ago and for the first two yrs it did great its not looking that great anymore any suggestions on what to do? Should I fertilize it cut it back pull it out and replant I never realy touched what I have I just let it grow and its real thick but it looks like a lot of it is dying.

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I planted creeping phlox 3 yrs. ago and for the first two yrs it did great its not looking that great anymore any suggestions on what to do? Should I fertilize it cut it back pull it out and replant I never realy touched what I have I just let it grow and its real thick but it looks like a lot of it is dying.

I have only had mine one year, so take it with a grain of salt, but I READ that sometimes you have to trim off the dead looking parts, mulch it well in winter, not let it stay too wet, and occasssionally divide it.  Anything there sound useful? — Signed,    Kellie My Karma Ran Over My Dogma.  It was a catastrophe! Now my dogma’s dead and my karma’s out of alignment. Get in "Knee Deep"!     The Internet Pond Society      http://w3.one.net/~rzutt/newsletter.html

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Funny that you brought this up.  I too planted creeping phlox about 3-4 years ago.  I recieved a bounty of pink flowers and an evergreen spread.  It years that passes, at this time of year, large areas start dying out.  To date I have done nothing.  I have similar beds of phlox planted elsewhere and also soffer some die-out.  Just a perusal of my garden this morning made me want to cry.  Over half of the Phlox is turning brown and turning to dust (while a few weeks ago it was still green).   What should I do?  At present I shall continue to due nothing.  What is the problem … soil conditions, nematode infestation, blight … age of the culture.  I am tempted to go in and ‘thin’ it out. TTrue in RTP "Seek simplicity … then distrust it" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I planted creeping phlox 3 yrs. ago and for the first two yrs it did great its not looking that great anymore any suggestions on what to do? Should I fertilize it cut it back pull it out and replant I never realy touched what I have I just let it grow and its real thick but it looks like a lot of it is dying.

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Can’t say for sure what the phlox problem is, but I’d suspect it could be die out due to poor drainage. This year has been particularly bad. Phlox subulata like well-drained conditions- folks often grow them in rock gardens and on slopes. The foliage seems to do best when allowed to scramble over rocks.  

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  I’ve grown Phlox Sublata for years on the south facing slope of a well drained rock garden and have also suffered an unusually severe die-back this season (mostly last fall and early winter).  However, this isn’t the first time and it strongly depends on phlox color and/or foliage characteristics.  I have a blue that rarely shows any die-back but after blooming it has the least impressive foliage.  The new Candy Stripe regularly blooms then flops for me and I have a bright pink-red that has barely clung to life for years.   My plan is to rebuild the rock garden with lots of compost, sand, and manure additives to my basic clay.  That’s worked before and lasts for many years.  By all means pull out the deader sections after flowering. Often you’ll find the ends of mostly brown branches have rooted near the ends and will start new and healthy plants.  If you’ve got long mostly dead branches with green growth at the ends, you might be able to encourage rooting by pinninge one or more of these branches to the a nicely prepared bit of soil with a piece of bent wire and covering it with a little soil. — Lloyd Fortney http://www.phy.duke.edu/~fortney/ has links to my garden, flower, flyfishing, and travel JPEG images as well as teaching, research, and stuff like that

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I’ve read that Phlox should be divided every 3(?) years to keep it from dying out.  The parent plant should be removed and you can replant it. Otherwise it can choke itself.  I’m not sure if this applies to all varieties, but at least some you should also cut back in winter. J.

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Question:

I need to wash my Simms waders.  There are no fly shops where I live in Texas.  What is a good safe detergent to use on waders?                                 Chuck

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I need to wash my Simms waders.  There are no fly shops where I live in Texas.  What is a good safe detergent to use on waders?                            Chuck

Hi Chuck I always use the same liquid soap I have for washing dishes, not the powder stuff for the dish washing maching.  Be sure to get the inside rinsed thoroughly or you can get a real bad rash when you wear them if the soap residue is not removed. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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