Question:

Why are you about to send them all to Italy?

I’ve taken a job with the Food and Agriculture Organization of the U.N. for a couple of years, in Rome. JR

Response:

I’ve taken a job with the Food and Agriculture Organization of the U.N. for a couple of years, in Rome. JR

U.N. Cool.  Go out and thump mellons for the "World Team."  I would contact U.S. Customs.  Many times in my moves around the world, I had a customs agent on site when they packed my goods up.  Its their job.  Explain the situation, and tell them what you have.  They will be able to tell you what to do.  The best thing to do is make sure the odd bits (polar bear, dodo, and such) are packaged in and American wrapper (Wapsi, Orvis…).  It then comes under the commercial products for personnal use heading vice "trapped or hunted furs and pelts."  The latter is a pain in the butt. Secondarily, when you ship, package it all together and label it "craft materials."  They understand crafts alot more than the nuances of fly tying. Cheers. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

Response:

I’ve taken a job with the Food and Agriculture Organization of the U.N. for a couple of years, in Rome. JR

Good luck and stay safe JR!  Hope you find some fishing opportunities! –Stan

Response:

Why are you about to send them all to Italy? I’ve taken a job with the Food and Agriculture Organization of the U.N. for a couple of years, in Rome. JR

Is there a relocation company handling matters for you? They should be able to help. Paul

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Good luck and stay safe JR!  Hope you find some fishing opportunities!

Thanks, Stan.  Compared to a lot of places I’ve lived, the greatest danger in Rome will be from all the beautiful women, and I reckon I can live with that.  A couple of weeks ago, a fellow named Bepo from Friuli posted here, and I’ve been grilling him by email about the fishing there.  Turns out he’s a freshwater fisheries biologist, so he knows a lot.  ROFF delivers yet again!!! JR

Response:

U.S. Customs.  Many times in my moves around the world, I had a customs agent on site when they packed my goods up.  Its their job.  Explain the situation, and tell them what you have.  They will be able to tell you what to do.  The best thing to do is make sure the odd bits (polar bear, dodo, and such) are packaged in and American wrapper (Wapsi, Orvis…).  It then comes under the commercial products for personnal use heading vice "trapped or hunted furs and pelts."  The latter is a pain in the butt. Secondarily, when you ship, package it all together and label it "craft materials."  They understand crafts alot more than the nuances of fly tying.

Good advice.  Fortunately, many of the more expensive items, that I’d least like to see confiscated, are Whiting capes and saddles still in their original, labeled zip-lock bags.  As you say, it turns out (according to Kaufmann’s) that products from commercially raised domesticated animals (chickens, rabbits, calves, etc.) are easier to deal with than products from wild animals (deer, elk, etc.), which, to be exported legally, require an inspection by USFW. JR

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Is there a relocation company handling matters for you? They should be able to help.

They were being all spacey for a while, alternating between confusion and breezy nonchalance ("Oh, probably there’ll be no problem…").  I’ve been pushing them about being sure to get the appropriate customs and fish and wildlife clearances leaving the U.S., based on what I’ve found out from Kaufmann’s, Hunter’s Angling, and other folks.  Now they’re coming around. JR

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John, have you inquired with the UN to see if you can get your stuff into Italy in something like a "diplomatic pouch"?  I should think UN personnel would have something like "diplomatic immunity." BTW, my younger duaghter lives in Terni, an hour or two north of Rome. She tells me a river flows through Terni that is full of fish, but she has no idea what kind.   She’s coming for Easter; I’ll see what more I can find out. vince

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John, have you inquired with the UN to see if you can get your stuff into Italy in something like a "diplomatic pouch"?  I should think UN personnel would have something like "diplomatic immunity." BTW, my younger duaghter lives in Terni, an hour or two north of Rome. She tells me a river flows through Terni that is full of fish, but she has no idea what kind. She’s coming for Easter; I’ll see what more I can find out.

Thanks, Vince.  Folks at my level in the organization have some very nice privileges and a quasi-diplomatic status, but not quite immunity.   The pouch is out of the question, but in fact things are shaping up.  It was the local moving company here that was at a loss; the shippers in DC that subcontracted them are pretty much on top of everything now that I’ve expressed my concern. I’d like to hear about waters close to Rome.  All the best trout water I’ve ID’d up til now is too far north for weekend jaunts, but I suspect there is some "lesser quality" water in the Apennines, and I don’t mind fishing for warm water species as well.  Plus, what with a gazillion and a half miles of coastline, there must be a saltwater fish or two that can be taken with a fly.  It’s been said here on ROFF before:  if you’re open-minded and a bit adventuresome, you can always find something worthwhile to fish for. BTW, have fun at the Penns ‘Clave. JR

Response:

I’d like to hear about waters close to Rome.

I was in Rome for about four months a few years back. I didn’t have my fishing gear, but I do recall there being a nice sporting goods store right near the Sisto bridge, across from Trastevere. It wasn’t on the main road that parallels the Tiber, but the "access road" that paralleled that. The exterior was non-descript but they had some very nice gear inside (including fly gear and some really nice shotguns, IIRC). Not much to go on, I realize, but there are worse ways to spend an afternoon than wandering that area looking for a flyshop . Have fun…I’m sure you will! – Sid …and buy your coffee for home brewing at Castroni…you won’t be sorry! …and, umm, you guys hiring?

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…… I do recall there being a nice sporting goods store right near the Sisto bridge, across from Trastevere. It wasn’t on the main road that parallels the Tiber, but the "access road" that

Now you’re talkin. …and buy your coffee for home brewing at Castroni…you won’t be sorry!

Now you’re REALLY talkin.  Thanks, Sid. JR

Response:

I’m about to ship all my fly tying materials to Italy.  Does anyone know what sort of documentation might be required to avoid problems getting bird and animal skins into Italy and then getting them eventually back into the U.S.? JR Why are you about to send them all to Italy?

Folks, we have the first bidder. Tim

Response:

I’m about to ship all my fly tying materials to Italy.  Does anyone know what sort of documentation might be required to avoid problems getting bird and animal skins into Italy and then getting them eventually back into the U.S.? JR

Response:

I’m about to ship all my fly tying materials to Italy.  Does anyone know what sort of documentation might be required to avoid problems getting bird and animal skins into Italy and then getting them eventually back into the U.S.? JR

Why are you about to send them all to Italy?

Response:

Question:

You can say that again!  I don’t suppose anyone gets out as much as they would like.  

I didn’t mean you, I meant daytripper. The HWMNBN stuff is probably hard to follow if you’re new around here (aka still sane). <g — Charlie…

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You can say that again!  I don’t suppose anyone gets out as much as they would like.   I didn’t mean you, I meant daytripper. The HWMNBN stuff is probably hard to follow if you’re new around here (aka still sane). <g

He’s even a little hard to follow if you’re grizzled and insane

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(HWMNBN won’t be able to trot *that* canard out anymore)…

Ah, the trotting of the canards… I used to be a fan until that night in Marseilles when I had a grand on a mallard to place at 12-1.  It was running neck and neck with the leader until the home stretch, where the goddam thing came up lame and couldn’t finish the race.  That’s when I realized the whole thing was fixed. Kevin, still disillusioned.

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(HWMNBN won’t be able to trot *that* canard out anymore)… Ah, the trotting of the canards… I used to be a fan until that night in Marseilles when I had a grand on a mallard to place at 12-1.  It was running neck and neck with the leader until the home stretch, where the goddam thing came up lame and couldn’t finish the race.  That’s when I realized the whole thing was fixed. Kevin, still disillusioned.

Still, it’s better than running with the canards at Pamplona……boy could get culled doing that.    :( Wolfgang

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That’s when I realized the whole thing was fixed.

And why most just lope their mule… <g — Charlie…

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I can only say that nothing I have read would make me reluctant to post to ROFF.  As a matter of fact, I would expect any group interested in Fly fishing to have a disproportionate number of curmudgeons. Welcome, Jim!  Everyone here (with the exception of a troll) has been exceedingly kind and helpful to me, despite the fact I am very new to fly fishing

Geez! All of this good karma made me post again, after having nuked myself pretty much out of existence here other than lurking – Sandy, if you can put up with what you have, then I see no reason for me keep lurking, especially since the salmon and steelheading is going so well here in Southern Oregon – a buddy of mine landed a 33" (28lb +/-) hen chinook on a 6wt Saturday (#6 Beadhead CDC Prince), gave one of the flies to a guy just upstream, then helped that guy land what had to be a 32-35 lb jack… and they were fishing for steelhead. Jim, Welcome. -Gus http://gstrandesigns.tripod.com/flyfishing.htm

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Geez! All of this good karma made me post again, after having nuked myself pretty much out of existence here other than lurking – Sandy, if you can put up with what you have, then I see no reason for me keep lurking, especially since the salmon and steelheading is going so well here in Southern Oregon – a buddy of mine landed a 33" (28lb +/-) hen chinook on a 6wt Saturday (#6 Beadhead CDC Prince), gave one of the flies to a guy just upstream, then helped that guy land what had to be a 32-35 lb jack… and they were fishing for steelhead.

Cool!  Then we’ll expect TRs and maybe even photos posted to alt.binaries.pictures.fishing very soon.  :^)  Welcome back, Gus.  Don’t sweat the small stuff.  Fishing and fun and friends are what’s important, and there’s plenty of that here. Sandy — "…the sport and game of angling is the true means and cause that brings a man into a merry spirit, which…makes a flowering age and a long one." ~~ Dame Juliana Berners 1496

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here in Southern Oregon – a buddy of mine landed a 33" (28lb +/-) hen chinook

Whoa! That is a fat fish! Mu

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Kissass. — Citizen Fisherman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cool!  Then we’ll expect TRs and maybe even photos posted to alt.binaries.pictures.fishing very soon.  :^)  Welcome back, Gus.  Don’t sweat the small stuff.  Fishing and fun and friends are what’s important, and there’s plenty of that here. Sandy —

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I have only posted to this group once, so I guess it would be fair to say I am a newbie.  I guess I could also be considered a Lurker because I have continued to follow threads hear and there for the last couple months, as time permits, but I have not contributed. I can only say that nothing I have read would make me reluctant to post to ROFF.  As a matter of fact, I would expect any group interested in Fly fishing to have a disproportionate number of curmudgeons.  This is not meant as a slight, I enjoy and respect many crurmudgeons.  When someone takes heat on this group, they usually deserve it and the criticism teaches newbies, like me, simple lessons.  (Posting shamless marketing or large pictures is a no-no.)  The lessons are also entertaining. My position as a Lurker will probably erode over time.  At this point in time, my major limitation is time.  My kids keep me quite busy and it is fun to be with them.  I guess you could call them my primary hobby.  Reading a few post here and there is quick and I can do it at odd hours.  I sometimes cannot look at ROFF for weeks, so my contributions would be disjoint at best.  I really enjoy trip reports and many are truly works of art.  The only thing I find intimidating about ROFF would be to producing a a small whitefish trip report in a riffle loaded with quality trout. I have learned much from this group.  (For example: I need to give the Henry’s Fork another try and now I know why it appears that I catch more than twice the number of trout when I use a dropper.  I guess I can thank Bruce for both.) I will go fishing with my brothers in a few weeks and I hope the trip gives me enough material for a good report.  The thing I need most to contribute to ROFF is content.

Response:

I will go fishing with my brothers in a few weeks and I hope the trip gives me enough material for a good report.  The thing I need most to contribute to ROFF is content.

Actually, Jim, all you need is a Sage rod for sale and a couple of alter egos. But seriously, it’s nice to here from you! –Steve

Response:

"Jim …..Posting shamless marketing or large pictures is a no-no.

I, for one, don’t think shamless marketing is all that bad……best kind there is, as a matter of fact.     …The only thing I find intimidating about ROFF would be to producing a a small whitefish trip report in a riffle loaded with quality trout….

Pretty metaphor.  You got nuthin to worry about. Wolfgang oh yeah, welcome aboard!

Response:

Good post. Many will agree.  ;-) Seriously, thanks for the post, Jim. You’ve refuted the "popular opinion" (actually, held by just the one guy, afaik) that ROFF is an uninviting place. (HWMNBN won’t be able to trot *that* canard out anymore)… /daytripper (You’re off to a good start! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have only posted to this group once, so I guess it would be fair to say I am a newbie.  I guess I could also be considered a Lurker because I have continued to follow threads hear and there for the last couple months, as time permits, but I have not contributed. I can only say that nothing I have read would make me reluctant to post to ROFF.  As a matter of fact, I would expect any group interested in Fly fishing to have a disproportionate number of curmudgeons.  This is not meant as a slight, I enjoy and respect many crurmudgeons.  When someone takes heat on this group, they usually deserve it and the criticism teaches newbies, like me, simple lessons.  (Posting shamless marketing or large pictures is a no-no.)  The lessons are also entertaining. My position as a Lurker will probably erode over time.  At this point in time, my major limitation is time.  My kids keep me quite busy and it is fun to be with them.  I guess you could call them my primary hobby.  Reading a few post here and there is quick and I can do it at odd hours.  I sometimes cannot look at ROFF for weeks, so my contributions would be disjoint at best.  I really enjoy trip reports and many are truly works of art.  The only thing I find intimidating about ROFF would be to producing a a small whitefish trip report in a riffle loaded with quality trout. I have learned much from this group.  (For example: I need to give the Henry’s Fork another try and now I know why it appears that I catch more than twice the number of trout when I use a dropper.  I guess I can thank Bruce for both.) I will go fishing with my brothers in a few weeks and I hope the trip gives me enough material for a good report.  The thing I need most to contribute to ROFF is content.

Response:

"Jim" wrote My position as a Lurker will probably erode over time.  At this point in time, my major limitation is time.  My kids keep me quite busy and it is fun to be with them.  I guess you could call them my primary hobby.  Reading a few post here and there is quick and I can do it at odd hours.  I sometimes cannot look at ROFF for weeks, so my contributions would be disjoint at best. ……

Even the most curmudgeonly and cantankerous here won’t ever fault you for having your priorities so properly ordered.  Hope you find the time to post more often–maybe even a TR of the up-coming trip with your brothers.  ;) JR

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(HWMNBN won’t be able to trot *that* canard out anymore)… Uh, you don’t get out much do you. <g — Charlie…

You can say that again!  I don’t suppose anyone gets out as much as they would like.  Thats why I lurk around here and live vicariously though others.  It also gives me a chance to learn, although I would rather be learning on a river.

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(HWMNBN won’t be able to trot *that* canard out anymore)…

Uh, you don’t get out much do you. <g — Charlie…

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I will go fishing with my brothers in a few weeks and I hope the trip gives me enough material for a good report.  The thing I need most to contribute to ROFF is content.

You can always theorize or trivialize (?).  Keeps me busy in the long lulls between fishing trips

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(HWMNBN won’t be able to trot *that* canard out anymore)… Uh, you don’t get out much do you. <g

What was I thinking?!?

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He should definately cul that canard. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (HWMNBN won’t be able to trot *that* canard out anymore)… Uh, you don’t get out much do you. <g What was I thinking?!?

Response:

I can only say that nothing I have read would make me reluctant to post to ROFF.  As a matter of fact, I would expect any group interested in Fly fishing to have a disproportionate number of curmudgeons.

Welcome, Jim!  Everyone here (with the exception of a troll) has been exceedingly kind and helpful to me, despite the fact I am very new to fly fishing.  I don’t always have info to add to discussions, but I read every one and have learned a wealth of information here, and have made some very nice friends. I will go fishing with my brothers in a few weeks and I hope the trip gives me enough material for a good report.

Please do post when you get back.  All the trout in Arizona streams seem to be boiled from the extended summer heat and I’m living vicariously through trip reports on ROFF until conditions improve.  <g Sandy — "…the sport and game of angling is the true means and cause that brings a man into a merry spirit, which…makes a flowering age and a long one." ~~ Dame Juliana Berners 1496

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Question:

Assuming that you didn’t set the rod in a corner or leave it in its aluminum tube in your car, I’d say that it sounds like insufficient heat-treating of the bamboo.  (Is the rod a "blonde" bamboo or darker?)  I’d say you should contact the manufacturer. George

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently purchased a fairly expensive 7′  3wt.custom bamboo rod.  After a few careful fishing excursions I noticed a slight curve has developed between the tip of the rod and the second eye from the top.  Is this a normal characteristic of bamboo or a quality or workmanship issue. Any advice greatly appreciated Tom Bogdan

Response:

I recently purchased a fairly expensive 7′  3wt.custom bamboo rod.  After a few careful fishing excursions I noticed a slight curve has developed between the tip of the rod and the second eye from the top.  Is this a normal characteristic of bamboo or a quality or workmanship issue. Any advice greatly appreciated Tom Bogdan

Response:

It is completly normal and is called a "fishing set" or just a "set". Ways to avoid them is to occasionally turn the rod over when fighting a fish and make sure the rod is dry before putting it back in the tube. If you want to correct it you can heat the section with a hair dryer and hold the section straight until it cools or go fishing and catch a few fish playing them with the rod turned 180 degrees. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently purchased a fairly expensive 7′  3wt.custom bamboo rod.  After a few careful fishing excursions I noticed a slight curve has developed between the tip of the rod and the second eye from the top.  Is this a normal characteristic of bamboo or a quality or workmanship issue. Any advice greatly appreciated Tom Bogdan

Response:

I recently purchased a fairly expensive 7′  3wt.custom bamboo rod.  After a few careful fishing excursions I noticed a slight curve has developed between the tip of the rod and the second eye from the top.  Is this a normal characteristic of bamboo or a quality or workmanship issue.

The first couple of rods I built have both shown a proclivity towards a tip set. I think it was a combination of three things (1) poor workmanship (i.e. insufficient heat treating), (2) excessively long sections–both rods were 5 feet long with no ferrule, and (3) improper storage–I live in a very humid climate and I did not take steps to make sure the rods were kept dry. Since then I’ve built several rods with improvements in all three of the above shortcomings. So far none of those rods is any less straight today that it was when it was new (which is to say in some cases that they didn’t start out arrow straight to begin with–but that’s another topic . Assuming you haven’t horsed fish in (and it sounds like you’ve been careful), I would see if the builder would be willing to restraighten the rod for you at his expense. It might not stay straight, but the builder’s reaction will tell you a lot. As Paul mentioned in a different reply, you can do it yourself using a hair dryer and gentle pressure in the opposite direction of the set. The bottom line: if I were one day to start making rods professionaly, I would consider a tip set after only a couple of careful uses (assuming the rod is being stored correctly) to be a shortcoming in my heat-treating technique. –Steve

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It’s a quality and workmanship issue, return it! Vern – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently purchased a fairly expensive 7′  3wt.custom bamboo rod.  After a few careful fishing excursions I noticed a slight curve has developed between the tip of the rod and the second eye from the top.  Is this a normal characteristic of bamboo or a quality or workmanship issue. Any advice greatly appreciated Tom Bogdan

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s a quality and workmanship issue, return it! Vern I recently purchased a fairly expensive 7′  3wt.custom bamboo rod.  After a few careful fishing excursions I noticed a slight curve has developed between the tip of the rod and the second eye from the top.  Is this a normal characteristic of bamboo or a quality or workmanship issue. Any advice greatly appreciated Tom Bogdan

_______  You may be too hasty here.  This is what you need to do.  Look at the tip closely and make sure it has a good varnish finish on it, protecting the rod from getting wet inside. Sets in bamboo fly rods can be caused the same way as with graphite. Setting it in an upright position leaning against a corner or wall or having a bend in the tip over a long period of time.  Heat in the summer, beating down on any fly rod can cause tips or rods to take a set. With bamboo Tom, if you’re satisfied the finish is well done and the fly rod is not wet inside,  you can do this.  Set a hair dryer up to blow hot air.  Heat that section of the fly rod gently until the rod gets not warm, but hot.  Yet, not hot enough to burn it.  Hot enough to make it pliable.  Simply remove from heat and torque the bend or set out into opposite direction and hold it there until rod cools.  All bamboo fly rods are straightened like this Tom.  A master fly rod maker can’t pick up a fly rod without tweaking it time and again until it is finally finished and ready for delivery.   The heat will soften the glue enough so it will move molecularly.  It makes no difference it your have a $7,000 Bamboo Fly Rod or a Production Line fly rod – they all will take sets sooner or later. Permit me to offer you some sage advice.  Store your tip tops of your tips to the top of your tube next to the cork handle.  Regarding the bag with a cord to wrap them with?  DON’T use them.  Simply insert the rod with sock loosely into the tube.  Always try and keep your bamboo fly rods laying flat or straight and apart over long periods of time.  If you make a mental error regarding your tips and you get a set because they got too hot in the sun when under car glass, etc.  You can now fix the problem yourself. If you are not sure, send it too me and I will fix it for you for nothing.  What brand fly rod  it is, isn’t important. — George Gehrke/American Sportsman http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html http://www.gink.com/rod_facts/bastardjun00.html  LATEST BAMBOO FACTS "the saga continues"

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have an Uncle who recently showed me a fly rod that he has had for 20 yrs. I have never heard of the name of the maker and I was hoping that someone out there could maybe help me find out what its worth and where it came from. I have searched the internet and haven’t found anything. Here is a list of what the rod says on it: Made by T. C. Ivens "The Ivens Farstrike" Made in London 9′ 4"     6# That is all the markings that are on the rod. Any help would be GREATLY appreciated. Please email me with any responses as I do not have a chance to check this newsgroup very often. Thanks for any help. Mark Blanks

Contact this web sit.  They may be able to answer your bamboo question.    http://www.gorp.com/bamboo.htm Good luck. Joel Axelrad Joel Axelrad

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Made by T. C. Ivens "The Ivens Farstrike" Made in London 9′ 4"     6#

Tom Ivens was not really a rod manufacturer but a well-known English angling writer (born 1922, author of Still Water Fly Fishing etc.)  Rods with his name are probably discussed in British magazines of the 1960s e.g. Trout and Salmon. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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I have an Uncle who recently showed me a fly rod that he has had for 20 yrs. I have never heard of the name of the maker and I was hoping that someone out there could maybe help me find out what its worth and where it came from. I have searched the internet and haven’t found anything. Here is a list of what the rod says on it: Made by T. C. Ivens "The Ivens Farstrike" Made in London 9′ 4"     6# That is all the markings that are on the rod. Any help would be GREATLY appreciated. Please email me with any responses as I do not have a chance to check this newsgroup very often. Thanks for any help. Mark Blanks

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While picking the brain of a more experienced fly fisherman today I was puzzled by a remark he made about bamboo rods.  He said the reason for two tips was to permit a tip to "rest".  According to him bamboo begins to lose power in the tip section after several hours of fishing and must be "rested" for a time. I find this improbable but would like to hear about the behavior of bamboo as a fly-rod material and any special care required. Wayne To fish is human…to release devine.

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Wayne wrote While picking the brain of a more experienced fly fisherman today I was puzzled by a remark he made about bamboo rods.  He said the reason for two tips was to permit a tip to "rest".  According to him bamboo begins to lose power in the tip section after several hours of fishing and must be "rested" for a time. I find this improbable but would like to hear about the behavior of bamboo as a fly-rod material and any special care required. Wayne To fish is human…to release devine.

The tip section gets what is known as a "set" a curve downward.  Especially if you catch a lot of big fish or have the rod overlined.  This curve (set) remains in the tip and would have to be straightened by a rod builder or person who is expert in the process.  If you have a twin tip rod it’s best to rotate the tips.  Resting them will not straighten them! Joel Axelrad

Response:

The tip section gets what is known as a "set" a curve downward.  Especially if you catch a lot of big fish or have the rod overlined.  This curve (set) remains in the tip and would have to be straightened by a rod builder or person who is expert in the process.  If you have a twin tip rod it’s best to rotate the tips.  Resting them will not straighten them! Joel Axelrad

As well, one should consciously (and conscientiously) avoid applying prolonged unidirectional pressure on the tip section of your favorite cane rod, and rotate the rod about its long axis while playing in your catch (ie: half the time the reel should be below the rod, the other half it should be above). Awkward for certain, but every little bit will help keep your cane healthy and avoid the dreaded set. /dave

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Wayne wrote While picking the brain of a more experienced fly fisherman today I was puzzled by a remark he made about bamboo rods.  He said the reason for two tips was to permit a tip to "rest".  According to him bamboo begins to lose power in the tip section after several hours of fishing and must be "rested" for a time. I find this improbable but would like to hear about the behavior of bamboo as a fly-rod material and any special care required.

A set can happen for a lot of reasons, playing big fish or overlining the rod are but two fo them.  Leaning the rod in a corner, hanging it like a rifle, even the way the rod was made and the glue used could cause the tips or any section of the rod to take a set, especially if there was a weak flat in the section. As for two tips so that you can rotate them, well, that is partly true, but it very much depends on the rod.  A great many of the older, and even some newer rods are made with two tips to do various things.  Some had a Wet Fly action tip and a Dry Fly action tip.  Some were and are even produced to handle different line weights – say a 5 and a 7. As for bamboo losing power after a time, that happens after many years of fishing.  There is no need to rest a tip after a day of fishing. One other point about two tips comes up often, and that is that the second tip is an insurance policy against breakage.  Nice to have a spare tip when you are at a remote camp for a few days. Lastly, should a rod take a set, you can have it removed.  But chances are that the set will reapear in time.

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While picking the brain of a more experienced fly fisherman today I was puzzled by a remark he made about bamboo rods.  He said the reason for two tips was to permit a tip to "rest".  According to him bamboo begins to lose power in the tip section after several hours of fishing and must be "rested" for a time. I find this improbable but would like to hear about the behavior of bamboo as a fly-rod material and any special care required.

Hi Wayne, Bamboo is an organic material which does soften up and wear out over time with hard use, but a few hours of casting is a bit of a stretch.  Also, because the material is no longer alive, It can’t repair itself or get stronger form resting.   The two tips were supplied because the tip  flexes the most and wears out the quickest. If you alternate the tips everytime you go out fishing it will typically take 50 years of hard fishing to soften them up to the point that you need to use a lighter line than the rod originally cast.  If you use the same tip all the time, it takes ~25 years of hard fishing to reach this point. this is a slow process and happens so gradually that the fly fisher rarely realizes it’s happened. It’s possible for the butt section to also soften up, but there is so much more material in the butt section, it is rare. Most people who used bamboo rods in their heyday, didn’t alternate the tips every time they went out.  They used one until they broke it (typically in a door of some kind)  and then used the other tip. If the rod was used a lot and fished with the same tip, using the other tip on makes the rod cast entirely differently.   When you look at such a rod, it’s usually pretty easy to determine which tip was used the most. Dependant upon what type of glue was used to make the rod, you can also put a set (or permanent bend) in the rod by fighting particulalry large fish for extended periods of time.  To counteract this, many who use bamboo rods will turn the rod over during the fight, and fight the fish with the reel above the rod instead of below it.  The idea was to even out the stress on the tip and keep it straight.  Still others will point to the set in their rod as a battle scar and saythings like, "You should have seen the fish that put that set in my rod — monster!!".  Most old, well used,  bamboo rods have some evidence of a set in them.  If the set gets bad enough to inhibit casting, it can be taken out with the judicious use of dry heat, preferably done by an experienced bamboo rod builder.                                  Hope this helps,                                        Dan Dan Gracia Orvis

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The answer to both of your questions is YES…..

Along with Larry’s good advice, in using cane pay attention to the varnish and other details. If there are nicks and problems moisture can get in and delaminate it so touch it up with spar varnish.  If you hear clicking from a ferrule take care of it before it works loose and causes a break. When playing a good sized fish turn the rod around so it’s not always bending the same direction, to prevent putting a permanent bend in it. And never ever put it away damp.  It is better for it to be out in the rain overnight than in a damp cloth sleeve in a closed tube. I am gradually switching to cane for most of my fishing. I enjoy the slower pace of casting. I enjoy the more substantial heft of the solid cane in the light rods compared to hollow rods that feel weightless. Solid cane is more rugged than hollow graphite when you step on it. You feel the line load the rod and the way the rod springs back to fling it.  Someone spent as much time to make the rods as I had to work to pay for them.  You can buy great cane rods that collectors shun for $100-200 because maybe someone broke an inch off the tip or rewrapped them without regard for color matching. Friday I used an old 8 wt. Granger on the North Umpqua and caught a 10 lb. wild steelhead. That rod might be too heavy to cast all day but I sit and watch a river half the time anyway, the best technique of all for success and enjoyment. My modern reel backlashed so I had to play it by hand and hold tight when it tried to run. I should have used a pflueger.  The rod had backbone to spare. The smile will last for months, regardless of how the Raiders play. I am more hoping we can get the Oakland A’s back in a few years. Mark Vinsel Oakland, CA www.vinsel.com

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Sorry but I just have to comment on the Traitor Raiders. Don’t watch them anymore, don’t care. Let them move back to LA. When a team can fill the stands and the owner still moves them because of pure greed, that team should no longer be supported by those that care. Same thing should have happened to the Baltimore Colts when they moved. Although football teams are privately owned, they take on the name of the city where they play, it wasn’t the A. Davis Raiders, It was the Oakland Raiders, in using the name, they owe something to the city and fans that supported them so well Jerry in Lodi (close to Oakland) http://www.softcom.net/users/dorado — ——- Hope you always have time to go fishing, Jerry in Lodi      Al & Jerry’s Excellent Adventures           http://www.softcom.net/users/dorado     Member: Save Our Stripers          http://www.softcom.net/users/dorado/sos.htm

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Yes, bamboo requires a much slower stroke than graphite. A good caster adjusts to the rod instead of finding a rod that he can cast. There are no more REAL Raiders.  It’s like the old saying "you can’t go home again".  Al Davis really stuck it to the taxpayers of Alameda County and we didn’t even get a chance to vote on the money we are paying for the pleasure of watching them loose.  It looks like they are going to repeat their loosing performance again this year. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-Mail Selling my Fly Fishing Books Go to: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The answer to both of your questions is YES….. Naturally, you’ll need to carefully inspect the rods for splits between the cane sections, tight ferrules, no unraveling wraps on the eyes and a tight reel seat. You need to handle the rod carefully, not to load it too much, make some nice gentle casts, say up to 30′ with it at first and then lengthen the line…..you will likely be surprised how smooth it feels and how well you feel the line straighten out behind you as opposed to graphite. The REAL Raiders had a glorious existence in OAKLAND, CALIFORNIA until their bonehead owner decided to "fool with Mother Nature"…he wasn’t making enough money, made ridiculous demands on the city and county who owned th estadium the Raiders played and won super bowl championships from and move the team to Los Angeles….they went into the former LA Coliseum which had ben renovated for the 84 olympics, never could fill it and failed to have much success playing there…..a few years back, they lied to the former city and county in which they won lots of fans and games, convinced them to rebiuld the stadium, sell "seat licenses"

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Well when you reach my age the first thing to go is your memory and I forgot what the second thing is. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-Mail Selling my Fly Fishing Books Go to: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Errol Mann is my investment broker….he doesn’t fish I remember George Blanda,I don’t remember Don.

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As a follow-up question to the group: Is it realistic to expect to use a 30 to 70 year old bamboo  rod for day to day fishing.  Even if in otherwise good condition would the moisture loss and case hardening of bamboo occur as in wood to reduce flexibility and increase internal friction damage? Thanks to the group for the excellent information about bamboo. Was there a football team called Raiders? Wayne To fish is human…to release devine.

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The answer to both of your questions is YES….. Naturally, you’ll need to carefully inspect the rods for splits between the cane sections, tight ferrules, no unraveling wraps on the eyes and a tight reel seat. You need to handle the rod carefully, not to load it too much, make some nice gentle casts, say up to 30′ with it at first and then lengthen the line…..you will likely be surprised how smooth it feels and how well you feel the line straighten out behind you as opposed to graphite. The REAL Raiders had a glorious existence in OAKLAND, CALIFORNIA until their bonehead owner decided to "fool with Mother Nature"…he wasn’t making enough money, made ridiculous demands on the city and county who owned th estadium the Raiders played and won super bowl championships from and move the team to Los Angeles….they went into the former LA Coliseum which had ben renovated for the 84 olympics, never could fill it and failed to have much success playing there…..a few years back, they lied to the former city and county in which they won lots of fans and games, convinced them to rebiuld the stadium, sell "seat licenses"

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I remember George Blanda,I don’t remember Don.

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Errol Mann is my investment broker….he doesn’t fish – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I remember George Blanda,I don’t remember Don.

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Larry, I remember Don Blanda, he used to fill in for Ken Stabler.  He was the oldest quarterback playing at that time, but normally was the Raiders place kicker.  Those were the good old days. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-Mail Selling my Fly Fishing Books Go to: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The 3 canes I have, all having two tips at least at ONE time, have tips of differing composition…I mean one of them being of a stouter material. There is/was a marked difference in the performance of the rods dependent on the tip used…I had always thought of it as a "nymphing tip" and a "dry fly tip", that’s how different the action of the rods were. I still take one cane out each trip, and get it maybe a half hour of action, but then they go back to rest, with a brandy and a cigar…..=8^) I refer to them as my "Blanda Rods" for those of you with remembrances of Raiders football in the late 60s – early 70s. Larry #:)#

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The 3 canes I have, all having two tips at least at ONE time, have tips of differing composition…I mean one of them being of a stouter material. There is/was a marked difference in the performance of the rods dependent on the tip used…I had always thought of it as a "nymphing tip" and a "dry fly tip", that’s how different the action of the rods were. I still take one cane out each trip, and get it maybe a half hour of action, but then they go back to rest, with a brandy and a cigar…..=8^) I refer to them as my "Blanda Rods" for those of you with remembrances of Raiders football in the late 60s – early 70s. Larry #:)#

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I always thought the idea of two tips was that the tip is the most likely the section to get  broken. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-Mail Selling my Fly Fishing Books Go to: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – While picking the brain of a more experienced fly fisherman today I was puzzled by a remark he made about bamboo rods.  He said the reason for two tips was to permit a tip to "rest".  According to him bamboo begins to lose power in the tip section after several hours of fishing and must be "rested" for a time. I find this improbable but would like to hear about the behavior of bamboo as a fly-rod material and any special care required. Wayne To fish is human…to release devine.

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While picking the brain of a more experienced fly fisherman today I was puzzled by a remark he made about bamboo rods.  He said the reason for two tips was to permit a tip to "rest".  According to him bamboo begins to lose power in the tip section after several hours of fishing and must be "rested" for a time.

I can’t speak as to bamboo rods (mine having only one tip each, but not normally used continuously for more than a couple of hours) — but fibreglass rods seemed to become "fatigued" after a day’s continuous use.  I first noticed this in cold weather (air temp 30 to 40 deg. F.) fishing for Great Lakes steelhead with a Fenwick fibreglass rod about 1970.  It seemed important enough that when I got a second state-of-the-art glass rod I used to swap after 3 or 4 hours. This fatigue phenomenon has not been observed in graphite rods (Loomis and no-brand IM6.)  But then I have not for 20 years flogged the water continuously all day long when fishing for fall steelhead, being physically weaker and more experienced . . . . — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Question:

Eric was quick to say he thought whirling disease was a bad deal, that it undoubtedly played a significant part. But he (and others, increasingly) also pointed out that whirling disease seems to coincide with poor stream conditions: overly silted streambeds below damns or in badly cattle-tromped creeks, like lower Hound Creek and/or the Ruby.

You may have something with the contributing factors involved with WD. It seems to follow here in CO, the areas I know of that are hardest hit by WD are silted areas. Maybe silt is needed in the parasites life cycle. Anyone know if there’s been any research on this? One of the stretches of the Colorado that has lost almost all of its rainbow s under sixteen inches has numerous silty areas. It was an extremely good rainbow fishery before WD.  The remaining rainbows have been spawning successfully but are dying when young. Browns have started to fill in the void. Does anyone know if Cutts are as susceptible to WD as rainbows? Willi

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What is the current thought on taking fish that are obviously infected? Is it in any way our responsibility to kill fish that are deformed and doomed to a slow miserable death? Is there a mechanism for reporting infected fish that are caught? I have no idea what the answers to my questions should be, can anyone pipe in and clear this up for me? Ben Holmes Boulder, CO

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Sandy, I will not list your long post on why no rainbow in the Madison and is it/Isn’t it whirling disease…. just want to comment .. first of all their is an outstanding site on Whirling disease kept by the montana folks, which is easy to find with a search engine on "W… D… montana".   From this and following our local parasite problem … Piscacida (spelling???) something…. a dinoflagellant (again spelling???)…. seems they may both have some common elements… like nutrients, water flow and temperature AND the pest to make an impact…  Meaning some watersheds  without all of the other elements don’t necessarily kill fish… takes the whole package of things… might explain the logic… Anyway locally, we are Zeroing in on hog farms and chicken farms which at low water and high summer temps cause of a "bloom" and changes in the parasite and result in somewhat localized fish kills…  visit the WD site and read the stuff there…. truly first rate research …. for some good insight…. Alan E. Hoover       to quote one of my favorite authors: "Fly fishing is such great fun, it really ought to be done in bed"  John Voelker, aka Robert Traver

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It’s my understanding that trout can only be infected during the first six months of their life cycle and as long as they make it to a year they will survive even with deformities. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Silt is important in the parasites life cycle. The WD organism uses a tubifex worm as an intermediate host. It cycles between these worms and the trout. The tubifex worms are a small earthworm-like creature that occurs in silty bottoms of streams. Siltation has been identified as one major factor contributing to the incidence of whirling disease in an area. Cutthroat are susceptible. I think most salmonids are, except for coho salmon and slpake. The disease causes most damage when very young fish (newly hatched) are infected, so any species that has oyung present at the time the free-living, infective stage of the parasite is in the water is at risk. Damage decreases with  fish age since the parasite mostly destroys cartilage. Fish that are a few years old tend to be less damaged by the parasite. Eric was quick to say he thought whirling disease was a bad deal, that it undoubtedly played a significant part. But he (and others, increasingly) also pointed out that whirling disease seems to coincide with poor stream conditions: overly silted streambeds below damns or in badly cattle-tromped creeks, like lower Hound Creek and/or the Ruby. You may have something with the contributing factors involved with WD. It seems to follow here in CO, the areas I know of that are hardest hit by WD are silted areas. Maybe silt is needed in the parasites life cycle. Anyone know if there’s been any research on this? One of the stretches of the Colorado that has lost almost all of its rainbow s under sixteen inches has numerous silty areas. It was an extremely good rainbow fishery before WD.  The remaining rainbows have been spawning successfully but are dying when young. Browns have started to fill in the void. Does anyone know if Cutts are as susceptible to WD as rainbows?

– Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm

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Silt is important in the parasites life cycle. The WD organism uses a tubifex worm as an intermediate host. It cycles between these worms and the trout. The tubifex worms are a small earthworm-like creature that occurs in silty bottoms of streams. Siltation has been identified as one major factor contributing to the incidence of whirling disease in an area. Cutthroat are susceptible. I think most salmonids are, except for coho salmon and slpake. The disease causes most damage when very young fish (newly hatched) are infected, so any species that has oyung present at the time the free-living, infective stage of the parasite is in the water is at risk. Damage decreases with  fish age since the parasite mostly destroys cartilage. Fish that are a few years old tend to be less damaged by the parasite. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Eric was quick to say he thought whirling disease was a bad deal, that it undoubtedly played a significant part. But he (and others, increasingly) also pointed out that whirling disease seems to coincide with poor stream conditions: overly silted streambeds below damns or in badly cattle-tromped creeks, like lower Hound Creek and/or the Ruby. You may have something with the contributing factors involved with WD. It seems to follow here in CO, the areas I know of that are hardest hit by WD are silted areas. Maybe silt is needed in the parasites life cycle. Anyone know if there’s been any research on this? One of the stretches of the Colorado that has lost almost all of its rainbow s under sixteen inches has numerous silty areas. It was an extremely good rainbow fishery before WD.  The remaining rainbows have been spawning successfully but are dying when young. Browns have started to fill in the void. Does anyone know if Cutts are as susceptible to WD as rainbows? Willi

– Tim Lysyk http://www.telusplanet.net/public/timlysyk http://www.telusplanet.net/public/cnangler/html

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A few years ago–when the news about whirling disease in Montana’s Madison river first broke–I remember getting in    He was angry at the Montana Fish and Game. He agreed that whirling disease existed in the river, and thought it played a role in the dramatic rainbow population decline. But he thought it was a minor role, and suspected that whirling disease may well have been present for years: even during the years of plenty. He attributed the dramatic decline to a major loss of spawing habitat in Slide Inn area, where shallow spawing runs had been whiped out in a high water year some 5-6 years back….and to too many fishermen trompling the few remaining spawing beds during the early season spawn. I was pissed off at him, because I liked (still do) Dick Vincent and his cohorts at the Fish and Game department. So we exchanged poison email for a while, and then we both took a powder. spent yesterday skiing with an old friend: Eric Shores, who has been guiding the madison forever (doesn’t seem like too long ago that Eric and Randy and George and George and Paul and a host of other guides were the young interlopers, and now we’re all 40-50 or more, and the old vets, it seems). Anyway, back to the main point. Eric said "yes, it’s true" the rainbow fishing is way off up the river. But says it’s as good or better than it ever was below Varney bridge. That section of the river has always been mostly browns anyway, but there were and are plenty of good rainbows too. ..that spawn in the channels above Ennis lake. And Eric pointed out how bad the Slide Inn area looks. I can’t deny it. What once was a series of dandy little side channels below Quake Lake has been a deep-fast flood channel for years. Even more interesting is the fact that whirling disease has been discovered in a dozen or more other locations across Montana–but without the dramatic drop in rainbow populations. Eric was quick to say he thought whirling disease was a bad deal, that it undoubtedly played a significant part. But he (and others, increasingly) also pointed out that whirling disease seems to coincide with poor stream conditions: overly silted streambeds below damns or in badly cattle-tromped creeks, like lower Hound Creek and/or the Ruby.   It’s also interesting to note that it’s hard to raise money in a cattle state for stream-bank habitat improvement projects, and a hell of a lot easier to raise (big) money for researching whirling disease. I still like and respect most of the people I know at Montana Fish and Game. But I don’t necessarily swallow their line. At least not completely. Not any more. I’d like to hear what others think, especially if they think they have something new to say about this subject. —  * Center for Computational Biology    * Montana State Bozeman  (406) 994-7061  * http://www.nervana.montana.edu/~sandy */

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 It is interesting that the flow data from MT. Power at Hebgen lake is missing for the years that the Slide area was scoured by flood like flows that changed the upper river. WD was  "discovered" shortly there after. The idea that the spawning beds where washed away is not new , just not put forth as much. I do think that the flooding had a tremendous effect that has been minimized .   Harry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -A few years ago–when the news about whirling disease in Montana’s Madison river first broke–I remember getting in   He was angry at the Montana Fish and Game. He agreed that whirling disease existed in the river, and thought it played a role in the dramatic rainbow population decline. But he thought it was a minor role, and suspected that whirling disease may well have been present for years: even during the years of plenty. He attributed the dramatic decline to a major loss of spawing habitat in Slide Inn area, where shallow spawing runs had been whiped out in a high water year some 5-6 years back….and to too many fishermen trompling the few remaining spawing beds during the early season spawn. I was pissed off at him, because I liked (still do) Dick Vincent and his cohorts at the Fish and Game department. So we exchanged poison email for a while, and then we both took a powder. spent yesterday skiing with an old friend: Eric Shores, who has been guiding the madison forever (doesn’t seem like too long ago that Eric and Randy and George and George and Paul and a host of other guides were the young interlopers, and now we’re all 40-50 or more, and the old vets, it seems). Anyway, back to the main point. Eric said "yes, it’s true" the rainbow fishing is way off up the river. But says it’s as good or better than it ever was below Varney bridge. That section of the river has always been mostly browns anyway, but there were and are plenty of good rainbows too. ..that spawn in the channels above Ennis lake. And Eric pointed out how bad the Slide Inn area looks. I can’t deny it. What once was a series of dandy little side channels below Quake Lake has been a deep-fast flood channel for years. Even more interesting is the fact that whirling disease has been discovered in a dozen or more other locations across Montana–but without the dramatic drop in rainbow populations. Eric was quick to say he thought whirling disease was a bad deal, that it undoubtedly played a significant part. But he (and others, increasingly) also pointed out that whirling disease seems to coincide with poor stream conditions: overly silted streambeds below damns or in badly cattle-tromped creeks, like lower Hound Creek and/or the Ruby.   It’s also interesting to note that it’s hard to raise money in a cattle state for stream-bank habitat improvement projects, and a hell of a lot easier to raise (big) money for researching whirling disease. I still like and respect most of the people I know at Montana Fish and Game. But I don’t necessarily swallow their line. At least not completely. Not any more. I’d like to hear what others think, especially if they think they have something new to say about this subject.

Response:

You may have something with the contributing factors involved with WD. It seems to follow here in CO, the areas I know of that are hardest hit by WD are silted areas. Maybe silt is needed in the parasites life cycle. Anyone know if there’s been any research on this? One of the stretches of the Colorado that has lost almost all of its rainbow s under sixteen inches has numerous silty areas. It was an extremely good rainbow fishery before WD.  The remaining rainbows have been spawning successfully but are dying when young. Browns have started to fill in the void. Does anyone know if Cutts are as susceptible to WD as rainbows?

Hi, The silt is the medium that supports the tubifex worms which carry the whirling disease spores.   Whenever you have whirling disease in a river you will find the biggest problem around areas with a lot of silt.  The tubifex worms carry the spores and live in the silt, the trout eat the worms, the spores infect the trout, the trout dies and spreads more of the spores, the worms feed on the decaying trout and the cycle starts all over again.  The spores do not become active until they are introduced into the trouts system.   The disease orignally came over from Europe with some infected brown trout.  It is a hatcery disease and is not naturally ocurring in the wild in the US, but is almost impossible to eliminate once it gains a foothold.  The sores can lie dormant for 30 years until they are ingested and are impervious to bleach and other cleansers which have been used in the hatchery races to try to eliminate them.  One report quoted a hatchery in Russia that was dried out for 30 years, then re-used and the fish all became infected. Montana was running a test program where they were trying to re-introduce the native cutthroat into the Madison river.  They have kept the native strain alive in a few hatcheries since in the wild both rainbows and brown trout out-compete them.  The idea was to identify some tributaries to the Madison with little or no siltation (and population of tubifex worms) and hopefully no evidence of WD.  They would plant the native Cuts in these tributaries. Cutthroat have exhibited the behavior of staying in their spawning tributaries for at least a year or two after hatching which may be the key to their survival.  Rainbows on the other hand return to the main stem much sooner after hatching.  WD attacks, deforms and kills young fish (older fish can survive an infestation) and the hope was that they would stay in the tribs long enough to escape the early infestation that can devestate rainbow populations.   By the time they return to the main stem which carries the disease, they are old enough to be able to survive it. Haven’t heard anything on this recently and lost the url of Montana’s fish and game site.  Would be worth doing a search on for more info, or perhaps someone on the ng has the url handy and will post it.                        Hope this helps,                                 Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

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Question:

M.W. Thank you for your insight.  You have some great ideas!  I know almost everybody is in to the $$$ side of fishing, but I prefer to get started without getting soaked.  Wow a $15 rod.  Although it’s glass, what a price.  I’m headed to WalMart and Kmart today to check out their stock. FYI, almost everybody has recommended a 8 1/2 5/6wt rod, then some good line and going cheap on the reel.  BTW, a couple of people have recommend the St Croiz ProGraphite rod ($70).  They say it’s a super rod that I won’t have to throw away. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For Jimmy D. Geek, From what I have experienced, you don’t have to spend alot of money to get into fly fishing.  I started with a Shakespear 9′ glass rod, with a Martin 61 real loaded with #7 floating line. The reel was only about $9-10, but did everything it needed to do, hold line when its not in the water.  I "upgraded" last year, with a 8′ Diawa graphite composite rod ($15) and another Martin 61’s. I loaded # 5 floating line on this reel. I fish the small streams and rivers of Missouri. If you don’t have alot to spend, or don’t want to get in very deep at first you might try this approach. Check out what is included in the combos, refer to some basic books, and maybe talk to an expert about a good balance between rod length an line weight. Then maybe you can find less expensive alternatives to the pricer models.  A good mid range combo that you will likely see mentioned for a range of conditions, is a 5 or 6 weight line on a 81/2-9′ rod.  I have caught some nice fish and spent some nice time in the water while(with the help of a few books) teaching myself to cast. This was done often to the disgust of a few very decked out fellow fly fishers down the way who were coming up dry.  You might try a book by Joseph F. Petralia, called Flyfishing, First Cast to First Fish!  Its a good step by step how to guide. Good luck and good fishing. M. W. Hensley

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For Jimmy D. Geek, From what I have experienced, you don’t have to spend alot of money to get into fly fishing.  I started with a Shakespear 9′ glass rod, with a Martin 61 real loaded with #7 floating line. The reel was only about $9-10, but did everything it needed to do, hold line when its not in the water.  I "upgraded" last year, with a 8′ Diawa graphite composite rod ($15) and another Martin 61’s. I loaded # 5 floating line on this reel. I fish the small streams and rivers of Missouri. If you don’t have alot to spend, or don’t want to get in very deep at first you might try this approach. Check out what is included in the combos, refer to some basic books, and maybe talk to an expert about a good balance between rod length an line weight. Then maybe you can find less expensive alternatives to the pricer models.  A good mid range combo that you will likely see mentioned for a range of conditions, is a 5 or 6 weight line on a 81/2-9′ rod.  I have caught some nice fish and spent some nice time in the water while(with the help of a few books) teaching myself to cast. This was done often to the disgust of a few very decked out fellow fly fishers down the way who were coming up dry.  You might try a book by Joseph F. Petralia, called Flyfishing, First Cast to First Fish!  Its a good step by step how to guide. Good luck and good fishing. M. W. Hensley

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Question:

I know nothing about fly fishing or tying, but own a bead business and have recently begun to get inquiries about beads suitable for use in tying flies. I’d be most appreciative of any info you could pass my way–are beads often used in tying flies? Any book suggestions? Please email me. Thanks! Barry Kahn — web site:  http://caravanbeads.com Caravan Beads Inc 449 Forest Ave Portland, ME 04101 207-761-2503 fax: 207-874-2664

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I know nothing about fly fishing or tying, but own a bead business and have recently begun to get inquiries about beads suitable for use in tying flies. I’d be most appreciative of any info you could pass my way–are beads often used in tying flies? Any book suggestions? Please email me. Thanks! Barry Kahn — web site:  http://caravanbeads.com Caravan Beads Inc 449 Forest Ave Portland, ME 04101 207-761-2503 fax: 207-874-2664

Hi Barry, Beads are added to flies used under the water’s surface. This practice has been around for years but regained popularity several years ago. Bead sizes vary from about 3/32" to about 3/16". By the way, are you a bead distributor or retailor? Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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Question:

Geez, Folks, this topic has used too many ergs and is getting mighty boring. It has digressed from flyfishing and descended into the pit of insult, confrontational commentary, and foolishness. Once the useful comments and opinions have been "voiced," you can let the thread die …. please.  I’ve tried to block the subject, but I guess I’ll have to create a broader "twit filter" and block authors. Is this a flyfishing newsgroup or not?  

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Geez, Folks, this topic has used too many ergs and is getting mighty boring. It has digressed from flyfishing and descended

Look at the subject list today man…you want BORING ? "For Sale, ex-Wifes wader suspenders", "should i fish upstream or down", "how many split shots blah blah..", "removing the smell from the glove compartment of my 1964 rambler", etc. etc. etc. ad nauseum. Just like the magazines these days…SOS regurgitated…only a forum for ads, newbies and places for the rich to go on vacation. I’ve cancelled all of my subscriptions.   Now, look at the net man.  Instant ‘letters and feedback to the editors’…discussions, arguments, points of view…way cool… and PETA ? Christ almighty man, NOTHING is more relevant to the sport than a group of people who would piss out the flyfishing flame with their manhatten breed of fish coddling piss. And the beauty of it all is…*YOU* can decide to read it or not. This morning, personally, I read the lone PETA article and marked the rest as read… You say… Is this a flyfishing newsgroup or not?  

and I say, it most certainly is…and it’s perfect. Tim Walker

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Geez, Folks, this topic has used too many ergs and is getting mighty boring. It has digressed from flyfishing and descended Look at the subject list today man…you want BORING ? Now, look at the net man.  Instant ‘letters and feedback to the editors’…discussions, arguments, points of view…way cool… and PETA ? Christ almighty man, NOTHING is more relevant to the sport than a group of people who would piss out the flyfishing flame with their manhatten breed of fish coddling piss. And the beauty of it all is…*YOU* can decide to read it or not. This morning, personally, I read the lone PETA article and marked the rest as read… You say… Is this a flyfishing newsgroup or not?   and I say, it most certainly is…and it’s perfect. Tim Walker

Tim, I have no disagreement with you that PETA is an important topic. And, I was following it daily.  My coment was that the interaction had gotten away from the topic and dipped into unrelated confrontational commentary. If the respondents maintain the topic – that’s great…. When it turns to idiocy – that’s worthless ….

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Question:

I find it amazing that the "dead-solid ugly" water in the reservoir was transformed into "clear, cold and gorgeous" water by passing through the dam.

Not hard to do.  They divert most of the water from the McCloud reservoir to the Pit River hydro-electric generators.  The water below is amazing! It’s cold because it comes from the bottom of the damn.  Water clarity varies.  In truth the water in the reservoir is fairly clear but has glacial silt in it from Mt. Shasta and is usually a turquiose blue. Personally, I like it.                                                    Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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Reservoir: dead-solid ugly (in the water). Some boaters/trollers were taking fish and filling in the bottom with beer cans. River below: about as incredible as one could imagine. No litter, almost no trails (tough to get to the water), no other fisherpersons to compete with for the resource- or to spook them either. Water was clear, cold and gorgeous. Lots of insects. Fished 9/23 in the first 1000 yds below the dam, landed a mixed bag of browns and rainbows to 14", and enjoyed losing several tailwalkers on the required barbless hooks. No sea-monsters on this trip… gotta pay my dues: & learn from the river.

   Most years the water is a light blue green-almost torquorse  (sp) ,this time of year because of the glacier’s on Shasta’s NE side.I always found it beautiful.   Harry

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d….

  I thought that it was algae bloom in the reservoir that caused it……. That very well could be , It really is a nice color.The big browns like it as well G<. Any sculpin pattern will get them going !!   Harry

Response:

Reservoir: dead-solid ugly (in the water). Some boaters/trollers were taking fish and filling in the bottom with beer cans. River below: about as incredible as one could imagine. No litter, almost no trails (tough to get to the water), no other fisherpersons to compete with for the resource- or to spook them either. Water was clear, cold and gorgeous. Lots of insects. Fished 9/23 in the first 1000 yds below the dam, landed a mixed bag of browns and rainbows to 14", and enjoyed losing several tailwalkers on the required barbless hooks. No sea-monsters on this trip… gotta pay my dues: & learn from the river.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Beautiful spot this time of year.  Water is high running at 200cfs (McCloud Reservoir is full to the brim) and extremely clear.  Water temps running 52 to 56 degrees. Fish are holding in the deeper runs and chutes and around structure in spots typically 5′ deep. Fishing is a little tough but with diligence you will get one fish where there ought to be 2 or 3. Good news, many of them are quite large.  Largest landed a rainbow a little over 20", largest lost, a brown between 22" &  24".  Most of the fish I hooked were in the 14"-17" range.   Brown trout came up for a Dan’s Hopper (my own fly).  Few browns in the river and few spawners up from the lake.  Evening hatch was sporadic with very few rises. Lots of poison oak and watch out for rattlesnakes on trail during heat of day. Flies that worked best:                 anything with a rust color or orange in it.                 Rust beadheads in size 16 (ran out first evening)                 Orange Soft Hackle size 14 & 16 fished dead drift. (tied up 12 used 6)                 Hoppers  size 8 or 10 (middle of the day)                                                   Dan Dan Gracia                                                                 Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools                                                       /                                                      /                                                     / If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

So when are we going? And you will clear the trail first, won’t you. BTW, at 2200 cps, I want to tie a rope to a tree when in that stream. Actually I’m going to fall River, the end of September and may spend a day or two on the Upper Sac. What do you hear? George Berns Trout Live in Beautiful Places

Response:

Beautiful spot this time of year.  Water is high running at 200cfs (McCloud Reservoir is full to the brim) and extremely clear.  Water temps running 52 to 56 degrees. Fish are holding in the deeper runs and chutes and around structure in spots typically 5′ deep. Fishing is a little tough but with diligence you will get one fish where there ought to be 2 or 3. Good news, many of them are quite large.  Largest landed a rainbow a little over 20", largest lost, a brown between 22" &  24".  Most of the fish I hooked were in the 14"-17" range.   Brown trout came up for a Dan’s Hopper (my own fly).  Few browns in the river and few spawners up from the lake.  Evening hatch was sporadic with very few rises. Lots of poison oak and watch out for rattlesnakes on trail during heat of day. Flies that worked best:                  anything with a rust color or orange in it.                  Rust beadheads in size 16 (ran out first evening)                  Orange Soft Hackle size 14 & 16 fished dead drift. (tied up 12 used 6)                  Hoppers  size 8 or 10 (middle of the day)                                                    Dan Dan Gracia                                                                 Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools                                                        /                                                       /                                                      / If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

Response:

Question:

: — : Netters..I am going home to Harrisburg Pa this coming  (2/3&2/4) weekend and I would like to try some fishing in the area.  I was thinking of the Yellow Breaches.  Could anyone recommend what I should use on this stream?  I figure that if the FF isn’t any good for me I would head on down to Gettysburg and tour the battlefield.  So, if anyone could recommend streams in between New Cumberland and Gettysburg..I would sure appreciate it!!..BTW.. Any good fly shops in the area that would be patient with a new bie??..Thanks..Dan : — :   : Dan Roberts : BRISTOL-MYERS SQUIBB PHARM. RES. CENTER      "Nature is last at Bats" : PRINCETON, NEW JERSEY U.S.A. PLANET EARTH, MILKY-WAY GALAXY

Response:

Netters..I am going home to Harrisburg Pa this coming  (2/3&2/4) weekend and I would like to try some fishing in the area.  I was thinking of the Yellow Breaches.  Could anyone recommend what I should use on this stream?  I figure that if the FF isn’t any good for me I would head on down to Gettysburg and tour the battlefield.  So, if anyone could recommend streams in between New Cumberland and Gettysburg..I would sure appreciate it!!..BTW.. Any good fly shops in the area that would be patient with a newbie??..Thanks..Dan —

Well, I don’t have any information, per se, but I do know a great book.   I think it is by Charles Meck, or Ed Shenk, but it is called Penn. Trout Streams and Their Hatches (or Something like that).  I read it, and it is great!  I plan to buy it because, as you, I intend to do some fly fishing in Penn.  Good luck. -Paul P.S.  Try Bob Clouser’s Shop.  I think it is near Harrisburg and E-town. *                       *    "To catch a river unguarded is less a        * * Paul "Cousin" Graham   *    matter of where to look than of when, and   * *                          *  I have a secret time."-Ted Leeson           *

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Dan,   I just booked a cabin and a guide for a float down the Delaware at West Branch.  My favorite fly shop near you is Brandywine Outfitters in Exton, PA. Give ‘em a try.  They are very helpful to newbies and provide guide services near where you are going to be…. Mad Dog P.S. my favorite fly shop name is the "Evening Rise" in Intercourse, PA…. —

Response:

– Netters..I am going home to Harrisburg Pa this coming  (2/3&2/4) weekend and I would like to try some fishing in the area.  I was thinking of the Yellow Breaches.  Could anyone recommend what I should use on this stream?  I figure that if the FF isn’t any good for me I would head on down to Gettysburg and tour the battlefield.  So, if anyone could recommend streams in between New Cumberland and Gettysburg..I would sure appreciate it!!..BTW.. Any good fly shops in the area that would be patient with a newbie??..Thanks..Dan — Dan Roberts BRISTOL-MYERS SQUIBB PHARM. RES. CENTER      "Nature is last at Bats" PRINCETON, NEW JERSEY U.S.A. PLANET EARTH, MILKY-WAY GALAXY

Response:

Question:

I just would like to see names of rivers, lakes included in some of this mail.  … I just am tired of this attitude of hiding even the name of the place.  Yes, you are right in that you can get pretty close from the description, but then why not just tell the name outright.

Names of rivers, dates, and specific "how, when and where" information is just what the magazine editors want too. Thank god they don’t get it, most of the time. The late Norman Strung, of Field and Stream, or Outdoor Life…I’m not sure which one… made a living out of giving secrets away. He was a Bozeman Montana area writer who had a lot of friends. There were a lot of people who didn’t like him very much too. Especially those who still had secrets they wanted to keep….fishing holes they didn’t want overrun. Secrets are for sharing with close friends. Not for broadcast news to the whole universe. —

Response:

I just would like to see names of rivers, lakes included in some of this mail.  … I just am tired of this attitude of hiding even the name of the place.  Yes, you are right in that you can get pretty close from the description, but then why not just tell the name outright.   Very few will make this arduous journey.

As a general rule, the smaller or more fragile a fishery is, the more reluctant I am to draw large-scale attention to it.  There are several reasons for my attitude: 1. Probably everyone has that one special place, a slice of heaven they    consider their own, that they would prefer keep secret.  If someone    works hard to discover such a place, and takes a personal interest in    its long term health, more power to them; and the right to keep it    a secret should be their’s – they deserve it. 2. Small fisheries, especially small creeks and small lakes (~15 acres)    can be severely impacted by sudden intense fishing pressure.  I’m    not concerned about telling everyone that the Siletz River has great    searun cutthroat and steelhead fishing.  It’s so damn big, it takes    years to figure out a few good holes.  Small waters on the other hand    are a different story.    I’ll add that "arduous" journeys or remote places do *not* guarantee    protection.  Heck, those are the places I’m attracted to, and    everyone else I know. 3. People who draw large-scale attention to secret fishing spots they’re    told about tend to be frowned upon.  If Wayne for example was told    about the lake in question by someone else, it’s wrong and certainly    awkard for Wayne to be expected to tell all for our benefit. 4. There’s more to fishing than being told which water to hit, which    fly to use, which hole to cast in, etc.   Half the fun should be    figuring it out for yourself. Thomas Gilg

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just would like to see names of rivers, lakes included in some of this mail.  … I just am tired of this attitude of hiding even the name of the place.  Yes, you are right in that you can get pretty close from the description, but then why not just tell the name outright.   Names of rivers, dates, and specific "how, when and where" information is just what the magazine editors want too. Thank god they don’t get it, most of the time. The late Norman Strung, of Field and Stream, or Outdoor Life…I’m not sure which one… made a living out of giving secrets away. He was a Bozeman Montana area writer who had a lot of friends. There were a lot of people who didn’t like him very much too. Especially those who still had secrets they wanted to keep….fishing holes they didn’t want overrun. Secrets are for sharing with close friends. Not for broadcast news to the whole universe. —

I think it’s upto the person who knows to tell if he wants to or not. I know I spend a fair bit of time spotting  pools/areas to fish and there are others who do the same. I wouldn’t want the place I’m fishing to be on some fishing show or the local newspaper because it brings out alot of people who wouldn`t come otherwise! I’m still pissed off at that Canadian Sportsfishing show where the two idiots (Henry and Italo) named the creek on a steelhead show. They caught fish after fish but didn’t tell anyone that they were fishing a private land area that the general public has no access to and they fished it the one year where they was a huge late run. There were so many people at the public areas with very few fish. It has taken about 4 years for the crowd to go away because they didn’t catch anything at all. If I ever see them out fishing one day, I’m going to give them a piece of my mind!!!!

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