Question:

Hi All, I just read a good article in the latest issue of  "Saltwater Flyfishing" magazine by veteran outdoor writer Bob Stearns. Bob says that 2 stroke outboard motor sales a slumping and 4 strokes will be taking over in many size categories. Keep this in mind when buying a new or used boat. — Bill Kiene

Response:

Also the stated goal of the EPA is the eventual extinction of the two stroke in all recreational motors both on and off the water. This as stated by an EPA rep at my last ABATE meeting (motorcycles).    Bill P.

Response:

Thanks Bill — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com Also the stated goal of the EPA is the eventual extinction of the two

stroke in all recreational motors both on and off the water. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This as stated by an EPA rep at my last ABATE meeting (motorcycles). Bill P.

Response:

cool, hate 2 cycle anyways (for outboards) "converted" my little one for my 14ft alum boat few years ago to a B/S 4hp It starts like a charm, and goes longer on fuel. no pollutants in water any more sinse it is air cooled, not water cooled, I ve sealed the water vents up, never fails me, no mixing , dont even have to choke the thing… wish I could get it to be quiet a little more…any suggestion on muffler will be appreciated..

Response:

Well, The bureaucrats might just do it, but they’ll be ripping my two stroke out of my fingers when the do.  In commercial, high stress environments, the four bangers have been less than impressive.  Boat motors for boats, car motors for cars.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I just read a good article in the latest issue of  "Saltwater Flyfishing" magazine by veteran outdoor writer Bob Stearns. Bob says that 2 stroke outboard motor sales a slumping and 4 strokes will be taking over in many size categories. Keep this in mind when buying a new or used boat. — Bill Kiene

Response:

Well, The bureaucrats might just do it, but they’ll be ripping my two stroke out of my fingers when the do.  In commercial, high stress environments, the four bangers have been less than impressive.  Boat motors for boats, car motors for cars.

I agree wholeheartedly with you Pat!  I was out on a boat that was "powered" by a Honda 130.  I thought that the lightly loaded boat was hard starting in cold weather, slow coming up on plane and a whole lot slower than the boat should have been with a 130 hp outboard.  The new EFI and Direct Injection systems are almost as fuel efficient and environmentally friendly with reduced emissions as the 4 strokes, with all the benefits of the 2 strokes superior horsepower to weight ratio. — Steve OutdoorFrontiers.com G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods   http://www.herefishyfishy.com

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Question:

A merry (year end festible of choice) to all of you. May the beer god smile apon you and your stockings be filled with bamboo rods, cool vests, waders, zingers and other tools of joy! Even you daytripper, get a bamboo ok? Flyfish — dave’s homepage madness http://www.ctel.net/~brooktrout flyfishing in Maine and more

Response:

A merry (year end festible of choice) to all of you. May the beer god smile apon you and your stockings be filled with bamboo rods, cool vests, waders, zingers and other tools of joy! Even you daytripper, get a bamboo ok? Flyfish

Bah! Humbug! If God had meant us to fish with cane, He’d have them grow with the guides and a UPS shipping label already attached… /daytripper (who actually owns four cane rods but prefers plastic)

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Question:

Hi there heading to cuba mid dec. Far west end Maria la Gorda. Any one out there have any info on this area, or other fly fishing destinations around thanks much bill

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If Ken F. has his way, you can flyfish in Cuba in Florida soon.. Herman Hi there heading to cuba mid dec. Far west end Maria la Gorda. Any one out there have any info on this area, or other fly fishing destinations around thanks much bill

–         Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

If Ken F. has his way, you can flyfish in Cuba in Florida soon.. Herman

It’ll cost 10 times as much, though<g. — Charlie…

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What.. Florida 10 times more expensive? Did they add ballottax? Herman If Ken F. has his way, you can flyfish in Cuba in Florida soon.. Herman It’ll cost 10 times as much, though<g. — Charlie…

–         Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

What.. Florida 10 times more expensive? Did they add ballottax?

If they haven’t already, they will<g. Somebody has to pay for all that overtime. — Charlie…

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Question:

snip Garry, how’s this????

snip I knew it was Spam, I just wanted Walt to have real chance at using his magic decoder ring.  Besides ER was kind of slow yesterday and I felt like playing. Cheers, Garry

Response:

Vision genesis Inc. runs an online article syndication service and is looking to add articles on the Fishing. If you’re an author and would like to submit articles for syndication please send samples to:

Oh Walt, go out to your yard and hook up the Meatloaf’s trailer to the truck and point her bow into the wind. Climb on board, and take a deep sniff and you will smellath Spamath. Here’s your first real change to use your magic anti-Spam tools. Garry

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Vision genesis Inc. runs an online article syndication service and is looking to add articles on the Fishing. If you’re an author and would like to submit articles for syndication please send samples to: Oh Walt, go out to your yard and hook up the Meatloaf’s trailer to the truck and point her bow into the wind. Climb on board, and take a deep sniff and you will smellath Spamath. Here’s your first real change to use your magic anti-Spam tools. Garry

Garry, how’s this???? Path: rQdQ!sn-xit-03!supernews.com!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!feed1.news.r cn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Newsgroups: alt.fishing.catfish,alt.fishing.minnesota,alt.fishing.walleye,rec.outdoors. fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing.bass,rec.outdoors.fishing.fly,rec.outdoors.fis hing.fly.tying,rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater Lines: 44 X-Trace: 2fnoBQBBEvqdDOwQBQnzwY9+ljYYIRzFizA0S2oVh+c= X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 Xref: rQdQ alt.fishing.catfish:6695 alt.fishing.minnesota:3273 rec.outdoors.fishing:82746 rec.outdoors.fishing.bass:68286 rec.outdoors.fishing.fly:203039 rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying:23727 rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater:58847 — All fishermen are liars ‘cept you n me, and I’m starting to have doubts about you! www.fishticker.com

Response:

Vision genesis Inc. runs an online article syndication service and is looking to add articles on the Fishing. If you’re an author and would like to submit articles for syndication please send samples to: Benefits This is a great way to drive traffic to your website, or increase subscriptions to your newsletters. With each article we include your author bylines and any links to your website, email addresses or newsletter links. Webmasters are adding our articles to their sites…your article could be syndicated to hundreds of websites. This is true viral marketing. This service is absolutely free. If you would like to see a few samples, visit: http://www.shoppinghagerstown.com/html/biz_art12.asp http://www.shoppinghagerstown.com/html/biz_art13.asp http://www.shoppinghagerstown.com/html/biz_art11.asp http://www.shoppinghagerstown.com/html/biz_art15.asp http://www.shoppinghagerstown.com/html/biz_art14.asp http://www.shoppinghagerstown.com/html/Dating.asp http://www.shoppinghagerstown.com/poetry/default.asp PLEASE NOTE that the banner advertising seen on these sample pages are not part of the uploaded articles – all that is uploaded is the article and bylines. Webmasters place the articles on in their page and format advertising around the articles. If you have articles consider contributing them now. Enjoy the benefits of having your articles seen all over the internet on fishing websites. Webmasters are eagerly waiting for new article categories to come online. Being auto-syndicated means that webmasters only have to embed a small snippet of code in their pages and the articles automatically update when we change them – usually on a weekly basis. This appeals to site owners because it’s cuts their maintenance time. You retain all rights to your articles, we only need permission to syndicate them. If you own a site check out our service – it’s absolutely free. We are adding new categories weekly. See: http://www.shoppinghagerstown.com/eContent/VisGenSynTerms.asp Thanks and regards Vision Genesis Inc. Syndication Services

Response:

Question:

Try rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying — Regards, Jeff Before you buy.

Response:

There is an excellent fly-tying course at http://www.flyanglersonline.com TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

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I sort of agree with the kit concept….granted some things are sub-par….but you have to have decided you want to tie and be getting ‘into’ it before you have the knowledge that the things ‘are’ sub par. there are different grades of kits, and you usually get a vidoe or book or two to help you get started….. To a person who knows they want to tie…..piecemeal…..to the curious or don’t forget the local groups like the one you missed…..there are usually more than just Trout Unlimited….. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is a catch 22 here…If you buy a beginners kit, it is cheap and if you decide tying is not for you, you only loose a few bucks.  However the tools are also cheap and that can make tying difficult and annoying.  On the other hand, good tools are a pleasure to use however they can be pricey. If possible, get a friend to let you tie or at your local fly shop.  If you like it, invest in a nice vice and bobbin. There is an excellent video series on PBS called "flytying, the anglers art".  You might try to hunt it down.  That’s how I learned to tie. gang, last fall I found out that our local TU chapter was going to offer a free fly tying course in the Jan/Feb time-frame and provide all the materials to anyone that was interested.  I asked them to email me when they finalized the dates and a couple of the guys that ran the meeting agreed.  To make a long story short, I never got an email and when I finally found out about the course, it was already in the 4th week so I figured I missed all the basic stuff and blew it off (my own fault, of course, I should have been checking on it instead of relying on being notified). Now that I’ve been fishing again for a month, I’m really regretting missing that course and wondering if I could teach myself with a tying kit and a good book or video.  I realize it would probably not be a good way to learn, but I don’t know anyone that ties and there are no scheduled courses anywhere near me that I’m aware of. Can anyone recommend a good learners kit and/or setup that would get me started?  If I’m just asking for trouble and should bag the idea please let me know that too! Tim

Response:

If it is a full coat of a reasonable ( light) colour, consider cutting it up and dyeing it. Mink makes excellent dubbing, and the guard hairs ( these are the longer hairs )  may be used for hair-wings etc.  Cut into strips they make excellent zonker patterns etc. It might however be a good idea to try selling the coat as it is, you may find that the proceeds will keep you in fly-dressing materials for a long time. By the way, mink skins are cheap and easy to come by, any furrier will give you a bundle of them for next to nothing, mink coats seldom are ! TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Response:

Buying materials separately is usually a much better and more economical idea. Have a look at my site, ( address is in the sig line) there is a little bit about starting fly-dressing there. TL MC

I printed your tool list and will take it shopping.  Makes sense to buy the correct amount of the right material.  Now I have to decide what to do with this full length mink coat.  I have had it for years and my new bride doesn’t want it.  She has already released it for tying material.  Maybe eel or leach patterns with mink strips?  Maybe I can make up a couple of mink reel pouches! — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

Decide what you want to tie, look up the materials necessary. Buy these. Buy a Thompson pro vice, a good pair of scissors, a ceramic bobbin holder and a pair of medium hackle pliers.  A needle glued into a piece of dowel with epoxy, makes a good dubbing needle, and is also used for applying varnish ( head cement) to flies.  Start with simple flies. There are some very good kits on the market, but these are invariably quite expensive, and will contain stuff you do not need. Also the amount of certain materials is usually less than you need for a couple of dozen flies. Buying materials separately is usually a much better and more economical idea. Have a look at my site, ( address is in the sig line) there is a little bit about starting fly-dressing there. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Response:

Can anyone recommend a good learners kit and/or setup that would get me started?  If I’m just asking for trouble and should bag the idea please let me know that too!

The Art of Fly Tying CD-ROM is only $20 these days (www.feather-craft.com).  You don’t need a kit.  Thompson Pro is a good beginner’s vise and will last a long time.  Many experienced tiers still use theirs.  You have fished for a year now so should have a good idea of what flies you commonly use.  Buy the materials you need for those flies and you will be in good shape.  Start with simple flies like wooly buggers or hare’s ear nymphs.  Do you trust the guys at the local fly shop?  They should be able to get you pointed in the right direction. Mu Mu

Response:

 Dr. Slick sounds familiar but I can’t place the name.

Cabela’s has them, as well as most fly shops. — Charlie…

Response:

Oh BTW I’ve found it very handy to also have a pair with a serrated edged for tougher stuff.  Mine are cheaper than my "fine" ones and work fine. YMMV — Regards, Jeff Before you buy.

Response:

Equipment caveat:   Avoid the cheapo kits.   Get decent stuff.   If you buy a cheapo kit, your chances of having a positive result are reduced, and you’ll end up throwing it all out because nobody else wants it.   Spend twice as much on decent stuff, and if you don’t like it, you can sell it for half what you paid on Ebay.   You’re out the same amount of money either way.

Joe, I’m getting lots of good advice here and am leaning toward buying a kit just because I really don’t have anyplace closeby to buy it peice by peice and I can order one from somewhere like Orvis or Cabela’s. What would you consider to be a good kit and not a "cheapo" kit? I also really like the idea of the CD and am going to see if I can find it somewhere. Tim

Response:

At least one pair of fine top quality scissors is more or  less essential for fine work on the flies themselves.  For everything else normal scissors will do. Keep your fine scissors only for fine work, and do not cut any rough materials or wire with them, and they will last a long time. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Response:

Check out the Wiss scissors, which I’ve seen in other stores besides fly shops – made for sewers I guess.  There’s a picture on this page: http://www.mwflytying.com/tools/fav_tools.html *Disclaimer: I haven’t used them, I just think they look cool and I’m about to buy some myself.

I have a couple pair of Wiss scissors, a larger one I use for sewing projects and a small one I’ve used for fly tying for many years.  Very high quality at a reasonable price.

Response:

I have some but prefer Dr. Slick (scissors that is). — Charlie…

You find those at medical supply/pharmacy houses, fly tying material shops, hardware stores, or fabric shops?  Dr. Slick sounds familiar but I can’t place the name. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

A pharmaceutical fly shop?…..bet he’s got leaves from bushes to chew on to – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My top tip – get good scissors.   Nothing is worse that trying to make that close cut with dull, shitty scissors. Joe F. I just spent some time on Mike Connor’s site.  I think I’ll take up "fly dressing" instead of "fly tying", sounds much prettier.  Mike makes the same point about the scissors.  I’ll be dropping by Harry Murray’s fly shop tomorrow when Dianna and I are on the way up to Big Stoney Creek for trout.  Harry is a pharmacist and runs the fly shop and pharmacy together.  Perhaps I can compare surgical scissors and "fly dressing" scissors. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

Check out the Wiss scissors, which I’ve seen in other stores besides fly shops – made for sewers I guess.  There’s a picture on this page: http://www.mwflytying.com/tools/fav_tools.html *Disclaimer: I haven’t used them, I just think they look cool and I’m about to buy some myself.

I have some but prefer Dr. Slick (scissors that is). — Charlie…

Response:

We do have a question though.  What about the quality of the scissors being offered out there.  Do we need the speciality scissors or are there commonly available scissors doing the same or better job?

Check out the Wiss scissors, which I’ve seen in other stores besides fly shops – made for sewers I guess.  There’s a picture on this page: http://www.mwflytying.com/tools/fav_tools.html *Disclaimer: I haven’t used them, I just think they look cool and I’m about to buy some myself. Regards, Jeff

Response:

….What about the quality of the scissors being offered out there…..

I have no idea of what is offered with kits Wayne, and I suppose that there is a wide variety of types and quality sold in fly shops.  What really matters is that they have fine points, are well made of quality material, and that they fit your fingers.  The most convenient place to look for scissors that will meet these criteria is a fabric shop.  Sewers use a variety of scissors and they come in all sizes.  If you’re looking for something more specialized, your local veterinarian or a friend who works at a hospital can turn you on to a bewildering array.

Response:

Tim,      I have recently taught myself to tie.  I bought a kit, and I’m not upset that I did.  It gave me a vise, scissors, bobbin, threader, hooks and some materials.  Granted, this stuff isn’t the greatest quality but it got me started.  The next thing I did was purchase a book by Skip Morris, Fly Tying made Clear and Simple.  This book is great.  It can teach anyone to tie.  Now that I am better I am ready to upgrade my vise, but the one from the kit has done just fine.  When you catch your first fish on a fly you tied yourself, it is all worth it! I highly recommend the Skip Morris book, it has very thorough step by step instructions and great pictures for each step.  It is also spiral bound, so that it stays open easily.  What I did was bought the book, picked the first few patterns, went to my fly shop and bought the things I needed to tie those. Came home and worked on those few patterns, when I got them down, I  went on to the next few patterns, went to the shop for the materials  etc…That way I didn’t have to drop hundreds of dollars at once.  I have really enjoyed it and am sure you will too. Have fun with your new hobby, J. Day

Response:

My top tip – get good scissors.   Nothing is worse that trying to make that close cut with dull, shitty scissors. Joe F.

I just spent some time on Mike Connor’s site.  I think I’ll take up "fly dressing" instead of "fly tying", sounds much prettier.  Mike makes the same point about the scissors.  I’ll be dropping by Harry Murray’s fly shop tomorrow when Dianna and I are on the way up to Big Stoney Creek for trout.  Harry is a pharmacist and runs the fly shop and pharmacy together.  Perhaps I can compare surgical scissors and "fly dressing" scissors. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

Can anyone recommend a good learners kit and/or setup that would get me started?  If I’m just asking for trouble and should bag the idea please let me know that too!

I received a Christmas gift last year of a computer CD "The Art of Fly Tying" that has a lot of video clips and audio instruction on various techniques.   It’s actually pretty cool.   I’m a beginner myself, and I did take a short course from a local shop the year before, but I thought the CD showed a lot of the same stuff (more, actually) just as well, and in some cases better (close up shots).   There is no substitute for in-person instruction for feedback, evaluation, and troubleshooting; but if you have no other option, I’d recommend the CD. Equipment caveat:   Avoid the cheapo kits.   Get decent stuff.   If you buy a cheapo kit, your chances of having a positive result are reduced, and you’ll end up throwing it all out because nobody else wants it.   Spend twice as much on decent stuff, and if you don’t like it, you can sell it for half what you paid on Ebay.   You’re out the same amount of money either way.   My top tip – get good scissors.   Nothing is worse that trying to make that close cut with dull, shitty scissors. Joe F.

Response:

I sort of agree with the kit concept….granted some things are (snip)

Due to a happy turn of events my wife and I have recently begun to look at fly tying.  We will be picking up some basic beginner books and canvassing some local tiers for "hands on" assistance.  At least one local fly shop offers "custom kits" made to suit your skill level and the type of fly you wish to tie.  They even offer "specialty kits" to tie specific flys.  I think we will read and watch and try a few basic flys.  This winter we will attend one of the many fly tieing classes being offered. We do have a question though.  What about the quality of the scissors being offered out there.  Do we need the speciality scissors or are there commonly available scissors doing the same or better job? — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

Hi Tim, I bought a kit when I first started to learn to tie, that was a mistake. Go down to your local shop and buy a vice, scissors, and a bobbin. You can add to your tools as you see fit. Then ask the guy behind the counter what materials you need to tie the types of flies that you use most, and buy the materials to tie them. Also ask him to recommend a book. I taught myself how to tie and while I’m not the greatest, I do catch fish (occasionally) on my flies. When you buy a kit, you get materials that you may never use. I still have some stuff from my kit and I’ve been tying for about 8 years now. HTH, Darin

Response:

There is a catch 22 here…If you buy a beginners kit, it is cheap and if you decide tying is not for you, you only loose a few bucks.  However the tools are also cheap and that can make tying difficult and annoying.  On the other hand, good tools are a pleasure to use however they can be pricey.  If possible, get a friend to let you tie or at your local fly shop.  If you like it, invest in a nice vice and bobbin. There is an excellent video series on PBS called "flytying, the anglers art".  You might try to hunt it down.  That’s how I learned to tie.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – gang, last fall I found out that our local TU chapter was going to offer a free fly tying course in the Jan/Feb time-frame and provide all the materials to anyone that was interested.  I asked them to email me when they finalized the dates and a couple of the guys that ran the meeting agreed.  To make a long story short, I never got an email and when I finally found out about the course, it was already in the 4th week so I figured I missed all the basic stuff and blew it off (my own fault, of course, I should have been checking on it instead of relying on being notified). Now that I’ve been fishing again for a month, I’m really regretting missing that course and wondering if I could teach myself with a tying kit and a good book or video.  I realize it would probably not be a good way to learn, but I don’t know anyone that ties and there are no scheduled courses anywhere near me that I’m aware of. Can anyone recommend a good learners kit and/or setup that would get me started?  If I’m just asking for trouble and should bag the idea please let me know that too! Tim

Response:

My uncle gave me his 1950 Herters fly set-up a couple a years ago.  I have been learnin’ ever since.  But a starter kit, a few books on the subject, and just start tryin’. Op

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – gang, last fall I found out that our local TU chapter was going to offer a free fly tying course in the Jan/Feb time-frame and provide all the materials to anyone that was interested.  I asked them to email me when they finalized the dates and a couple of the guys that ran the meeting agreed.  To make a long story short, I never got an email and when I finally found out about the course, it was already in the 4th week so I figured I missed all the basic stuff and blew it off (my own fault, of course, I should have been checking on it instead of relying on being notified). Now that I’ve been fishing again for a month, I’m really regretting missing that course and wondering if I could teach myself with a tying kit and a good book or video.  I realize it would probably not be a good way to learn, but I don’t know anyone that ties and there are no scheduled courses anywhere near me that I’m aware of. Can anyone recommend a good learners kit and/or setup that would get me started?  If I’m just asking for trouble and should bag the idea please let me know that too! Tim

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – gang, last fall I found out that our local TU chapter was going to offer a free fly tying course in the Jan/Feb time-frame and provide all the materials to anyone that was interested.  I asked them to email me when they finalized the dates and a couple of the guys that ran the meeting agreed.  To make a long story short, I never got an email and when I finally found out about the course, it was already in the 4th week so I figured I missed all the basic stuff and blew it off (my own fault, of course, I should have been checking on it instead of relying on being notified). Now that I’ve been fishing again for a month, I’m really regretting missing that course and wondering if I could teach myself with a tying kit and a good book or video.  I realize it would probably not be a good way to learn, but I don’t know anyone that ties and there are no scheduled courses anywhere near me that I’m aware of. Can anyone recommend a good learners kit and/or setup that would get me started?  If I’m just asking for trouble and should bag the idea please let me know that too! Tim

Response:

gang, last fall I found out that our local TU chapter was going to offer a free fly tying course in the Jan/Feb time-frame and provide all the materials to anyone that was interested.  I asked them to email me when they finalized the dates and a couple of the guys that ran the meeting agreed.  To make a long story short, I never got an email and when I finally found out about the course, it was already in the 4th week so I figured I missed all the basic stuff and blew it off (my own fault, of course, I should have been checking on it instead of relying on being notified). Now that I’ve been fishing again for a month, I’m really regretting missing that course and wondering if I could teach myself with a tying kit and a good book or video.  I realize it would probably not be a good way to learn, but I don’t know anyone that ties and there are no scheduled courses anywhere near me that I’m aware of. Can anyone recommend a good learners kit and/or setup that would get me started?  If I’m just asking for trouble and should bag the idea please let me know that too! Tim

Response:

Question:

Try Sunset crater the area if really nice, and if I’m not mistaken… It is where some of the Lunar Apollo astronauts trained for a while back in the 60’s. Not too far from Flagstaff either. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I had so much success in my last post asking for this info for the Santa Fe area, that since my travel plans have now changed I thought I’d try again.  I’ll now be in the Sedona/Flagstaff area for 2 weeks in mid-October, instead of the Santa Fe area.  While there I’d like to do some backpacking – I don’t mind wandering some reasonable distance from the area to do it – S. Utah would be OK, too, for example. Does anyone have any tips?  I’m interested in something physically rigorous and wild.  I would think that I’ll have time for a couple of trips in the 3-5 day range, and may have time for a couple of day-hikes or overnighters also.  Have been to Superstition Wilderness before, so some other recommendation would be appreciated.  Ideally, I could fly-fish there, too. Any advice would be gratefully received – thanks, all.

Response:

I had so much success in my last post asking for this info for the Santa Fe area, that since my travel plans have now changed I thought I’d try again.  I’ll now be in the Sedona/Flagstaff area for 2 weeks in mid-October, instead of the Santa Fe area.  While there I’d like to do some backpacking – I don’t mind wandering some reasonable distance from the area to do it – S. Utah would be OK, too, for example.

At Peak to Peak Trail and Wilderness Links (http://home.earthlink.net/~swfry/pk2pk/p2p.html) you will find 15 web sites listed for Arizona and 11 for Utah – each with trip reports and trail descriptions! Does anyone have any tips?  I’m interested in something physically rigorous and wild.  I would think that I’ll have time for a couple of trips in the 3-5 day range, and may have time for a couple of day-hikes or overnighters also.  Have been to Superstition Wilderness before, so some other recommendation would be appreciated.  Ideally, I could fly-fish there, too. Any advice would be gratefully received – thanks, all.

–      Peak to Peak Trail and Wilderness Links   http://home.earthlink.net/~swfry/pk2pk/p2p.html

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I had so much success in my last post asking for this info for the Santa Fe area, that since my travel plans have now changed I thought I’d try again.  I’ll now be in the Sedona/Flagstaff area for 2 weeks in mid-October, instead of the Santa Fe area.  While there I’d like to do some backpacking – I don’t mind wandering some reasonable distance from the area to do it – S. Utah would be OK, too, for example. Does anyone have any tips?  I’m interested in something physically rigorous and wild.  I would think that I’ll have time for a couple of trips in the 3-5 day range, and may have time for a couple of day-hikes or overnighters also.  Have been to Superstition Wilderness before, so some other recommendation would be appreciated.  Ideally, I could fly-fish there, too. Any advice would be gratefully received – thanks, all.

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12 Sept 97 To hike and include fly fishing, try the Lake Poweel area with a day the North Rim of the Grand Canyon is always spectacular. Normally, I’d say spend a few days in Supai, 8 miles into the Canyon with the only Native Americans still living in the Canyon.But flash flooding makes that a bad idea just now. You might give some thought to hiking in Bryce Canyon, Zion (though they might be having flash floods too), and through the Rim country in Sedona. Lots of variety and weather conditions. Usually this would be a great time of year to come here, but the very late monsoons have made every afternoon a potential thunderstorm nightmare. In fact, yesterday, NE of Flagstaff by 60 miles there were 4 funnel clouds spotted while 2 hikers were caught in a flash flood in the Canyon. Perhaps another month will bring some sanity to our weather. Have a great time. If you need books, maps, or equipment let us know. // – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I had so much success in my last post asking for this info for the Santa Fe area, that since my travel plans have now changed I thought I’d try again.  I’ll now be in the Sedona/Flagstaff area for 2 weeks in mid-October, instead of the Santa Fe area.  While there I’d like to do some backpacking – I don’t mind wandering some reasonable distance from the area to do it – S. Utah would be OK, too, for example. Does anyone have any tips?  I’m interested in something physically rigorous and wild.  I would think that I’ll have time for a couple of trips in the 3-5 day range, and may have time for a couple of day-hikes or overnighters also.  Have been to Superstition Wilderness before, so some other recommendation would be appreciated.  Ideally, I could fly-fish there, too. Any advice would be gratefully received – thanks, all.

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Question:

Anyone from New Brunswick that could tell me where on the Miramachi is a good place for fly fishing?   Have wheels, will travel, FAR  :-) — TRAIL BLAZER Webpage – http://www.trailblazerproducts.com

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Anyone from New Brunswick that could tell me where on the Miramachi is a good place for fly fishing?  

The Miramichi system comprises more than 1,000 miles of salmon water therefore under special controls.  So FF is good almost anywhere but access is the main problem for visitors.  In NB you must also employ a licensed guide on salmon rivers. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Question:

Great responses from all

Question:

Hans T.H. Beernink, Department of Biochemistry, University of Vermont

<snip: LOTS of good golden trout info deleted…   Ob Philosophical rantings (optional):   It seems that there is quite a mystique about the California golden   trout.  Californians like to say that it is the only trout truely native   to CA.  I know that most of the Western waters that can support goldens were   stocked with Kern goldens at one time or another (including those in Wyoming,   Colorado, and Utah), and the DFG has been hatching goldens at the foot of   Mt. Whitney for years..  There is also some debate over the different strains   of golden, in particular the small rosy fish found in the little Kern.     I’ve also heard that the golden is merely a uniquely colored rainbow, and   in fact is not a different species at all.  Whatever your angle on the   golden, it doesn’t really matter.  It’s a beautiful little fish, and fun   to catch.  Unfortunately, it’s also one of the most sensitive of the   trout.  The golden requires very clean water that is relatively   pristine.  There are lots of lakes and streams that at one time or   another held goldens, but are now incapable.  Between the effects of acid   rain, garbage from campers and hikers, and the cattle industry’s use of   the high meadows in the golden trout’s habitat, the trout are showing   signs of decline.  The fish are smaller, probably due to the lack of   food, and the waters capable of supporting goldens are fewer in number.     Let’s hope the trout are still here in a hundred years……       Best regards,   Hans   Greetings, Hans, and THANK YOU for the excellent post on golden trout.     Another problem besides habitat degredation, which DFG & others are finally realizing, has to do with the introduction of brook trout by the DFG  into Sierra lakes:  For years I have seen the brook trout spread from these lakes into the streams and rivers below them, displacing the golden (and rainbow) trout as they went.  Now finally the DFG has that "limit plus 5" or some-such program allowing you to keep an additional five brook trout beyond       the regular bag limit.  I have long made it a practice to never keep anything BUT brook trout to eat when a fresh meal of fish is in order. (Yummy, now where did I put ‘ole Mark Vinsel’s trout burrito recipe?)  In fact, I needed to buy new topo maps this year because my old ones were getting too beat up to read any more, and I was suprised to read in my new USDA Forest Service topo map the following:   "FISHING"   <SEVERAL PARAGRAPHS DELETED   "Brook trout are the most common fish in the wilderness.  They are easy to   catch and provide good trail-side meals.  A new fishing regulation allows   a larger bag -limit of small brook trout than in previous seasons!   Harvesting brook trout can improve angling by keeping the population in   check and reducing the numbers of small fish." I sure hope it isn’t too late – brook trout really do a number on the populations of golden and rainbow.     Thanks again for your informative post. Tight lines and happy trails!   -Mark Anderson

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In this newsgroup about two weeks ago there was a thread about goldens and we decided that there was no such thing as a golden over 16" in CA. In montano there are places to catch big goldens but its not the same as a CA golden.

Really.  Ralph Cutter claims in the "Sierra Trout Guide" that the California record for the Volcano Creek Golden Trout is 9 pounds, 8 ounces. That must have been one fat fish. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems  Ithaca, NY

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<snip :   :   Greetings, Hans, and THANK YOU for the excellent post on golden trout. :   :     Another problem besides habitat degredation, which DFG & others are : finally realizing, has to do with the introduction of brook trout by the : DFG  into Sierra lakes:  For years I have seen the brook trout spread from : these : lakes into the streams and rivers below them, displacing the golden (and : rainbow) trout as they went.  Now finally the DFG has that "limit plus 5" : or some-such program allowing you to keep an additional five brook trout : beyond       the regular bag limit.  I have long made it a practice to : never keep anything BUT brook trout to eat when a fresh meal of fish is in : order. (Yummy, now where did I put ‘ole Mark Vinsel’s trout burrito : recipe?)  In fact, I needed to buy new topo maps this year because my : old ones were getting too beat up to read any more, and I was suprised to : read in my new USDA Forest Service topo map the following: :   <snip :   : I sure hope it isn’t too late – brook trout really do a number on the : populations of golden and rainbow.   this is, of course, true.  Unfortunately, the DFG is responsible for the decline in "native" golden populations in the high sierras.  The brookie is not a native fish in the west.  It was, as you pointed out, introduced by the DFG, and only recently have they tried to make ammends.  In fact, some of the branches of the Kern were "poisoned" in a forced fish kill in an effort to replant the native goldens.  I don’t know if this was the correct approach, but they seem to be trying. Best regards, Hans — "The worst monotonous drone coming from a lectern or the most eye-splitting textbook written in turgid English is nothing in comparison to the psychological Sahara that starts right in your bedroom and spurns the horizon."         -Joseph Brodsky, from "In praise of Boredom"          delivered as a commencement address at Dartmouth College. Hans T.H. Beernink, Department of Biochemistry, University of Vermont

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<Regarding Golden Trout The biggest fish will be in rich lakes with limited spawning access. Lakes directly in a cirque receive sterile water, while lakes a step or two down in the chain receive water enriched by the lakes or meadows above. Lakes with more shallows and weedbeds are richest, though there has to be some deep water to protect against winterkill. The final criteria is the lack of a trail. The ideal would be a lake two steps down the chain, long and narrow, backing up into a meadow, with a single feeder stream with a falls a hundred yards above and below.  

Another reason Goldens are typically found in a chain of lakes is that, unlike cutthroat which like to spawn in inlets, Goldens spawn in lake outlets.  If there is not a lake below, the fry will wash downstream. With a chain of lakes, the fry will wash into a lower lake, where they can grow a few years, and then swim back up to their parents’ lake. — -Wayne Trzyna

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The biggest fish will be in rich lakes with limited spawning access. What do you mean?  Goldens spawn in streams.

I suspect he’s talking about the tendency of fish to overpopulate and stunt in high lakes with abundant spawning habitat but limited food. I’ve found lakes where this has happened to Goldens, as well as Cutts, and especially Brookies.  Since the original poster was looking for a trophy, he should avoid lakes with prolific spawning, unless the food supply can support it, which is rare in the types of high lakes in which Goldens are found. — -Wayne Trzyna

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All this talk about Golden trout raises another issue: patterns. What are some patterns with which folks have caught Goldens? I read somewhere that Goldens do not eat smaller fish and therefor won’t chase streamers.  Can anyone contradict this?   I personally have caught them on variaous small nymphs and dries.  At one lake, small attractors were especially effective, like a size 18 humpy. — -Wayne Trzyna

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Although it has been a long time ago–maybe 30 years–I fished one of the "sterile" lakes.  It was on the trail from Kearsearge pass to Glenn pass. Although you could swear there were no fish in it, all of a sudden, I couldn’t keep the fish from hitting the fly on the surface.  They would chase each other to get to it.  That lasted for about half an hour, and then, the lake appeare dead again. I should point out that this was in the early days of my fly fishing and sinking the fly never entered my mind. William Buchman

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: All this talk about Golden trout raises another issue: patterns. : What are some patterns with which folks have caught Goldens? : I read somewhere that Goldens do not eat smaller fish and therefor : won’t chase streamers.  Can anyone contradict this?   : I personally have caught them on variaous small nymphs and dries.  At one : lake, small attractors were especially effective, like a size 18 humpy. I’ve found that goldens in the high sierras are generally opportunists.   i.e., the high sierras have relatively little to offer in the way of mayflies/caddis/stoneflies etc., so the trout will generally eat whatever comes thier way.  Most dries will raise fish, but the bigger ones tend to like bushy attractors and terrestrials.  Try a small ‘hopper or a cricket.  Streamers *do* work too, but you generally need to put in right in front of the fish.  Smaller, flashy streamers like the micky finn or grey ghost work.  Hey, what about a wet fly?  The parmachene belle is one of my favorites, and works very well for larger goldens…. Best regards, Hans — "The worst monotonous drone coming from a lectern or the most eye-splitting textbook written in turgid English is nothing in comparison to the psychological Sahara that starts right in your bedroom and spurns the horizon."         -Joseph Brodsky, from "In praise of Boredom"          delivered as a commencement address at Dartmouth College. Hans T.H. Beernink, Department of Biochemistry, University of Vermont

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We hope to seek out California’s golden trout (catch & release) but are looking for a trophy sized fish.  We have combed the Sierra– catching goldens from 6 to 16 inches & resturned then safely back to the waters. Any suggestions for catching a golden over 16 inches.  We are not timid not without energy to go to the highest or most remote Sierra lakes. Thanking you in advance for advice. Denny

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In this newsgroup about two weeks ago there was a thread about goldens and we decided that there was no such thing as a golden over 16" in CA. In montano there are places to catch big goldens but its not the same as a CA golden. TimFLYFISH Dream of flyfishing, but also let the fish dream. C & R

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In this newsgroup about two weeks ago there was a thread about goldens and we decided that there was no such thing as a golden over 16" in CA.

Oh??? — -Wayne Trzyna

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We hope to seek out California’s golden trout (catch & release) but are looking for a trophy sized fish.  We have combed the Sierra– catching goldens from 6 to 16 inches & resturned then safely back to the waters. Any suggestions for catching a golden over 16 inches.  We are not timid not without energy to go to the highest or most remote Sierra lakes. Thanking you in advance for advice.

OY – by trophy do you mean something to put on the wall?   If you are you should understand that large goldens usually don’t have the brilliant colors that the whappers have.  I’m assuming not so I’ll offer some advice. You will have no satisfaction unless you do the work yourself. Here’s the general idea: The biggest fish will be in rich lakes with limited spawning access. Lakes directly in a cirque receive sterile water, while lakes a step or two down in the chain receive water enriched by the lakes or meadows above. Lakes with more shallows and weedbeds are richest, though there has to be some deep water to protect against winterkill. The final criteria is the lack of a trail. The ideal would be a lake two steps down the chain, long and narrow, backing up into a meadow, with a single feeder stream with a falls a hundred yards above and below.   Now get out your topos and go prospecting. Mark Vinsel Visit my gallery: http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.HTML

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: We hope to seek out California’s golden trout (catch & release) but are : looking for a trophy sized fish.  We have combed the Sierra– catching : goldens from 6 to 16 inches & resturned then safely back to the waters. : Any suggestions for catching a golden over 16 inches.  We are not timid : not without energy to go to the highest or most remote Sierra lakes. : Thanking you in advance for advice. I’ve spend a good deal of time in the Golden Trout Wilderness and the surrounding wilds of Inyo, etc., and I’ve spend most of that time fishing for Goldens. If you want a "trophy" trout, don’t fish for goldens.  Most of the fish are in the 10-12" range, and you’ll catch scads of them on almost anything.  BTW, Tim is wrong when he says that Goldens over 16" aren’t caught in CA.  In fact, I’ve caught quite a few.  They are very difficult to find, however, and it’s more luck than skill.   Most of the streams in the parks are packed with small goldens, but a fish over 12" is considered big in the streams.  The high lakes hold the big fish, but you need to be careful where you go, as some of these lakes are used as hatcheries (previously discussed….).  Most of the fry are planted in surrounding lakes, and this is often (or *was* often) done by airdropping the fry.  The fish then populate adjoining streams, etc.   It takes a hell of a long time for a golden to get big (over 18"): thus they are quite rare.   Best course of action?  Get the map, hike out for a week, and try some lakes.  Don’t dredge the bottom of the lakes, as they are generally lifeless.  Most of the fish will be in about 3-10′ water, near submerged rocks and glacial boulders.  Sometimes, the larger fish will cruise near an overhanging patch of grass if one is available. Flies?  Don’t go without a sierra red dot.  Basically its a red/orange floss body and a grizzly hackle at both the eye and bend of the hook.   Also bring the adams, humpies, some terrestrials (big ants are great, but beetles too…) and maybe a royal wulff.  I’d also try some wet flies and bright streamers.  Nymphs work, especially with some krystal flash, or other bright material (try some Z-lon..).  The bigger fish won’t rise as easily as the little ones, and expect to catch lots of fingerlings…. Ob Philosophical rantings (optional): It seems that there is quite a mystique about the California golden trout.  Californians like to say that it is the only trout truely native to CA.  I know that most of the Western waters that can support goldens were stocked with Kern goldens at one time or another (including those in Wyoming, Colorado, and Utah), and the DFG has been hatching goldens at the foot of Mt. Whitney for years..  There is also some debate over the different strains of golden, in particular the small rosy fish found in the little Kern.   I’ve also heard that the golden is merely a uniquely colored rainbow, and in fact is not a different species at all.  Whatever your angle on the golden, it doesn’t really matter.  It’s a beautiful little fish, and fun to catch.  Unfortunately, it’s also one of the most sensitive of the trout.  The golden requires very clean water that is relatively pristine.  There are lots of lakes and streams that at one time or another held goldens, but are now incapable.  Between the effects of acid rain, garbage from campers and hikers, and the cattle industry’s use of the high meadows in the golden trout’s habitat, the trout are showing signs of decline.  The fish are smaller, probably due to the lack of food, and the waters capable of supporting goldens are fewer in number.   Let’s hope the trout are still here in a hundred years…… Best regards, Hans  – "The worst monotonous drone coming from a lectern or the most eye-splitting textbook written in turgid English is nothing in comparison to the psychological Sahara that starts right in your bedroom and spurns the horizon."         -Joseph Brodsky, from "In praise of Boredom"          delivered as a commencement address at Dartmouth College. Hans T.H. Beernink, Department of Biochemistry, University of Vermont

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Randall Kaufmann of Kaufmann’s Streamborn is something of an expert on golden trout.  He usually spends multiple weeks per year in the high Sierra, and the Wind River area of WY.  I was just looking through his latest fly tying book and there are some great photos of Goldens.  If Also Kaufmann’s Streamborn has  a great color catalog that you can full color photos of lots of travel destinations.  They’ve got a new web page at http://www.teleport.com/~kman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We hope to seek out California’s golden trout (catch & release) but are looking for a trophy sized fish.  We have combed the Sierra– catching goldens from 6 to 16 inches & resturned then safely back to the waters. Any suggestions for catching a golden over 16 inches.  We are not timid not without energy to go to the highest or most remote Sierra lakes. Thanking you in advance for advice. Denny

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We hope to seek out California’s golden trout (catch & release) but are looking for a trophy sized fish.

A valid goal.  :) The biggest fish will be in rich lakes with limited spawning access.

What do you mean?  Goldens spawn in streams.  Limited access lakes such as Chicken Spring, or Funston Lake are actually dependant upon plants from DF & G.  Lakes with tributaries have the better prospects for a wild fish of size. Lakes directly in a cirque receive sterile water, while lakes a step or two down in the chain receive water enriched by the lakes or meadows above. Lakes with more shallows and weedbeds are richest, though there has to be some deep water to protect against winterkill.

I agree there.  The larger lakes have the larger fish.  Depth seems to be most important.  Shallow lakes in the High Sierra are usually sterile.  The Lake in the Eastern Sierra which has (according to Cal Fish and Game, anyway) without tributaries.  It is probably dependant upon stocking for new fish but the ones that survive get to about 20" over a period of ten or so years. The final criteria is the lack of a trail.

That is probably the *most* important factor of all.  The above mentioned lake is above timberline, about 10 miles of switchbacks from the trailhead. The last 3 miles is a rock climb.  That is why there are 20" Goldens in it. Now get out your topos and go prospecting.

Hear, hear!  I think the best part of finding those trout is fishing the ten or twenty lakes that look right but fail to produce.  Once you find the lake that you have personally prospected and sampled it becomes your personal find.  Good luck.  Take a long hard look at those topos, get out your flyrod and sample your fish! Tight lines, John Mark Vinsel Visit my gallery: http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.HTML

–                Six strings…                Nineteen frets…                Fourty four notes…                And a solid top.  What else do you need?

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Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: Suggest you try just below the "Glory Hole," where Putah Creek exits Lake Berryessa, (that is to say, below the damn dam), fishing nymphs down and across the broken water, merrily, merrily.  Some years (10?) ago, I was fishing here in the rain on a cold day in midwinter, got skunked, but did see a lure-slinger  walking out with fish the size of my leg.  Wondered why he would kill such a fine trout, ‘less he was skared of it!  But I would be wary of anybody who tells you Putah Creek is a "Trophy Trout Stream."  It’s just the only semblance of a moving-water trout-type flyfishing option close-in to the Bay Area, and for that, I guess we must be grateful. Sorry to disagree but there are lots of folks (none tyros) who would classify Putah Creek a trophy fishery. Its a tailwater stream that holds many fish, many large, few  pushovers. I don’t know if that qualifies as a "trophy" fishery but it ain’t a muddy, put-and-take slough.

Last I heard, Putah was officially classified as a "Trophy Trout Stream" by the state of California.  This qualifies it for special environmental protection, and special fishing regs.  They stock "put and take" rainbows down in the Solano Lake end, and there is a resident population of browns and land locked steelhead living from the head of lake Solano to the dam at lake Berryessa.  I’ve never gotten one of the giants, but I’ve seen several trout over 25" there in the water.         Putah is an interesting creek.  From Berryessa to Solano it is a great peice of water.  Cold water, good oxygenation, nice holes large bouldered bottom providing plenty of pocket water.  Lake Solano is a big evaporation pond.  There is a dam at the lower end of the lake, and during the summer, in dry years, there is no flow from it.  I’ve found the stream below Solano bone dry in some summers.  In a wet year, the creek flows on and eventually spreads out and sinks into the ground in the middle of the Sacramento cosway.  When you drive from Davis to Sac across the cosway, look to your right across the rice fields.  There is a peculiar patch of trees and scrub.  That is the termination point of Putah creek!         It’s been a while since I lived in Cali, but Putah was my training ground.  Don’t badmouth it just because your not competent enough to catch any of the multitude of giant (but extremely selective) trout that live there. Enjoy this gift of nature and preserve it for future generations. . Lenny Bloksberg . .

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writes: Suggest you try just below the "Glory Hole," where Putah Creek exits Lake Berryessa, (that is to say, below the damn dam), fishing nymphs down and across the broken water, merrily, merrily.  Some years (10?) ago, I was fishing here in the rain on a cold day in midwinter, got skunked, but did see a lure-slinger  walking out with fish the size of my leg.  Wondered why he would kill such a fine trout, ‘less he was skared of it!  But I would be wary of anybody who tells you Putah Creek is a "Trophy Trout Stream."  It’s just the only semblance of a moving-water trout-type flyfishing option close-in to the Bay Area, and for that, I guess we must be grateful.

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writes: Suggest you try just below the "Glory Hole," where Putah Creek exits Lake Berryessa, (that is to say, below the damn dam), fishing nymphs down and across the broken water, merrily, merrily.  Some years (10?) ago, I was fishing here in the rain on a cold day in midwinter, got skunked, but did see a lure-slinger  walking out with fish the size of my leg.  Wondered why he would kill such a fine trout, ‘less he was skared of it!  But I would be wary of anybody who tells you Putah Creek is a "Trophy Trout Stream."  It’s just the only semblance of a moving-water trout-type flyfishing option close-in to the Bay Area, and for that, I guess we must be grateful.

Sorry to disagree but there are lots of folks (none tyros) who would classify Putah Creek a trophy fishery. Its a tailwater stream that holds many fish, many large, few  pushovers. I don’t know if that qualifies as a "trophy" fishery but it ain’t a muddy, put-and-take slough.

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I hear Putah creek is a trophy trout stream.  I fished it about 1 month ago with some success on 18-20 prince nymphs.  I saw no fish over 8". Steam side brush made casting near impossible.  There were few pockets from which to cast from.  Wading was difficult due to the changing deapth of water and varying stream flows throughout the length of the creek starting just outside of Winters.  Does anyone know how and where to fish this water?

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