Question:

Actually grazing more animals than are allowed under the permit and grazing outside the boundaries of the permit are commonplace.  As enforcement by the government is almost nonexistant, that shouldn’t be surprising.  These common practices do constitute theft in anyone’s book.

Obviously, you’ve never spent any time in eastern Montana where a lot of grazing is done on BLM. I can recall many times having the BLM officer who monitors the grazing permits in our area come around to check grass conditions, number of cattle, water hole conditions, whether or not the ranchers are pulling there cows off public ground at the designated time, etc., etc., etc. I also know of ranchers (not many, though) who lost their grazing permits (and they should) for not following the stipulated conditions on their permit. This same scenario (the proper management of grazing permits) happens all across the American West on both National Forest System Lands and Bureau of Land Management lands. You,  sir, are clueless. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

FISHING RELATED POST?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You’re getting the lower price right now.  Jesus why do I even bother. christ.  I never met a cattleman who stole America’s grass lands and graze that I liked.  You’re right. Why should a nobody lbother? Mr.G. You never met a cattleman, period. —

Response:

Actually grazing more animals than are allowed under the permit and grazing outside the boundaries of the permit are commonplace.

Brian D. Nelson responded: I can recall many times having the BLM officer who monitors the grazing permits … I also know of ranchers (not many, though) who lost their grazing permits … You,  sir, are clueless.

Across the west you’ll find varying compliance with grazing permits. Ditto logging laws and so on. I regularily volunteer to help with multi-agency state/federal fish surveys in eastern Oregon, and it is not uncommon to find cattle grazing well outside their permitted range. In one case we were surveying for bull trout in a remote backcountry area where grazing permits had been eliminated several years before, and yet we still found cattle and signs of regular grazing activity *inside the former and still-fenced allotments*. Some of the agency folks were suppose to followup on that discovery. Thomas Gilg

Response:

eliminated several years before, and yet we still found cattle and signs of regular grazing activity *inside the former and still-fenced allotments*. Actually grazing more animals than are allowed under the permit and grazing outside the boundaries of the permit are commonplace.

I’m sure there are instances of illegal activity such as you described. However, from my experience, I don’t believe that these instances are "commonplace". — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

Even if they are, that just means more money needs to be spent on enforcing the current restrictions, not coming up with more.

And sadly the folks breaking the law are the same ones against any additional government enforcement of the law. Thomas Gilg

Response:

  George– This is Cindy… Brian’s wife writing now.  I cannot believe your comments regarding ranchers/cattlemen ripping off the consumer.  I grew up in Eastern Montana on a small ranch.  My father received 70-90 cents per pound for his calves sold every fall.  This fall the price given to cattlemen for their calves is still 70-75 cents per pound.  Not much of a raise over the past 20 years.

snipped: Just don’t like cattle on my Federal Lands stealing habitat that belongs to the American People’s wildlife inventories.  Cattle destroy much too much and are a financially bankrupting entity that needs to be removed from all our outdoor recreational lands. George Gehrke

Response:

Just don’t like cattle on my Federal Lands stealing habitat that belongs to the American People’s wildlife inventories.  Cattle destroy much too much and are a financially bankrupting entity that needs to be removed from all our outdoor recreational lands.

The American People’s wildlife inventories are not starving nor do they lack a home. So what I hear you saying is that multiple use on our public lands actually equates to ONLY recreation. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When you’re paying $9 a pound for beef you’ll be blaming that on Bush too I suppose. Getting screwed by Ranchers must stop.  When did YOU ever get a discount on a pound of beef for letting them steal grass and graze and destroying habitat in the past? Never? Your right!! Mr.G. You’re getting the lower price right now.  Jesus why do I even bother. christ.  I never met a cattleman who stole America’s grass lands and graze that I liked.  You’re right. Why should a nobody lbother? Mr.G. You don’t have to like them, you have that right, but they are not stealing anything. As long as they have grazing permits it is legal.

Actually grazing more animals than are allowed under the permit and grazing outside the boundaries of the permit are commonplace.  As enforcement by the government is almost nonexistant, that shouldn’t be surprising.  These common practices do constitute theft in anyone’s book. Jon

Response:

  When you’re paying $9 a pound for beef you’ll be blaming that on Bush too I suppose.

Getting screwed by Ranchers must stop.  When did YOU ever get a discount on a pound of beef for letting them steal grass and graze and destroying habitat in the past? Never? Your right!! Mr.G.

Response:

Getting screwed by Ranchers must stop.  When did YOU ever get a discount on a pound of beef for letting them steal grass and graze and destroying habitat in the past?

Boy, George, are you living in the netherworld if you think ranchers have ANY influence on the retail price of beef. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

What’s to do with FISHING anyways?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Boy, George, are you living in the netherworld if you think ranchers have ANY influence on the retail price of beef. What, are you suggesting that both ends are getting screwed by the large corporations in the middle? How un-American! Jon.

Response:

  When you’re paying $9 a pound for beef you’ll be blaming that on Bush – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – too I suppose. Getting screwed by Ranchers must stop.  When did YOU ever get a discount on a pound of beef for letting them steal grass and graze and destroying habitat in the past? Never? Your right!! Mr.G. You’re getting the lower price right now.  Jesus why do I even bother.

christ.  I never met a cattleman who stole America’s grass lands and graze that I liked.  You’re right. Why should a nobody lbother? Mr.G.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When you’re paying $9 a pound for beef you’ll be blaming that on Bush too I suppose. Getting screwed by Ranchers must stop.  When did YOU ever get a discount on a pound of beef for letting them steal grass and graze and destroying habitat in the past? Never? Your right!! Mr.G. You’re getting the lower price right now.  Jesus why do I even bother. christ.  I never met a cattleman who stole America’s grass lands and graze that I liked.  You’re right. Why should a nobody lbother? Mr.G.

You don’t have to like them, you have that right, but they are not stealing anything. As long as they have grazing permits it is legal.

Response:

I never met a cattleman who stole America’s grass lands and graze that I liked.  You’re right. Why should a nobody lbother?

In this country, you are entitled to your own opinion…. even when it’s an incorrect one. Maybe if you’d actually get out there and meet a real cattleman, you’d change your tune. George– This is Cindy… Brian’s wife writing now.  I cannot believe your comments regarding ranchers/cattlemen ripping off the consumer.  I grew up in Eastern Montana on a small ranch.  My father received 70-90 cents per pound for his calves sold every fall.  This fall the price given to cattlemen for their calves is still 70-75 cents per pound.  Not much of a raise over the past 20 years.  Your accusations against the ranchers holds no water.  You are basically talking out of your rear-end.  If you would do some research and cared about your country, you would see that the family ranches are unable to support their families.  Any help we can give the ranchers in the use of public lands is money put back into our economy and assistance to families who are trying to make a living providing food for your table.  And just in case you are a vegetarian, don’t forget those ranchers who graze cattle on public land can then use the land they own to grow grain and barley for your bread.  Don’t be such a twit. Boy, George… did you ever step in it!! When Cindy reads over my shoulder and kicks me off the keyboard…. well, you get the drift. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

I was listening to a recent NPR program, discussing the problems of depopulation in rural communities back east – sorry, can’t remember the exact state, possibly one of the Dakotas. The program talked about how more people are getting college education and moving away to city jobs, leaving rural life. As a result some farmers are converting their land back to prairie. What little I know of the Eastern states, I’d guess this is some pretty decent farm land being lost.  I also recently read about farm land in Wisconsin being converted back to forest. I know that here in the Southwest, we are enduring one of the worst droughts ever. Phoenix has had just 2.24 inches of rain this year, and may get no more rain until February or March. People are leaving the East and moving out West in huge numbers, and so people & agriculture are competing for many natural resources. So, it doesn’t sound so bad to me, when  "Hard-line environmentalists" are simply helping to maximize the reward to the taxpayers, from the business use of  Federal land. In a free market economy the cost for federal grazing rights should b e"all the market will bear". I know that there is an argument that this policy will reduce domestic beef production & increase imports. Well……perhaps we should consider the most efficient way this country feeds its’self. As a taxpayer and an eater, I want the cheapest (safe) beef I can get. This allows me to spend more of my income on other (US-made) products. It’s a tough life being a farmer. My grandfather was a successful farmer in England. He changed & correctly predicted the trends and made a profit – he didn’t need subsidies. He changed a farm that was widely diversified (sugarbeet, chickens, barley & milk, were just some of the products) to a farm that was specialized – he was one of the first in the area to see the demand for oil seed rape. As a farmer it doesn’t seem fair that a successful way of life is being changed. But all forms of business change over time – including farming.

|         www.sfgate.com        Return to regular view | In the old West, a tense showdown over federal lands | JIM CARLTON, The Wall Street Journal | Monday, November 11, 2002 |

Question:

You want to explain this one. When did  O’Meara let Tiger’s friendship start dictating his tournament schedule? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – O’Meara respects his good friend Tiger way too much to show up at Hilton Head this week.

Response:

You missed all those NAACP folks picketing outside the Worldcom? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You want to explain this one. When did  O’Meara let Tiger’s friendship start dictating his tournament schedule?

Response:

O’Meara respects his good friend Tiger way too much to show up at Hilton Head this week. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I happened to be in line behind Mark O’Meara and 2 of his fishing friends this morning at the coffee and bagel store this morning. They were ready to head out and do some fly fishing.  Don’t know about their mental state, though.  Who would want to go wading in a freezing river in 30 degree weather with snow showers when you could be in warm and sunny Hilton Head! He has a place up here in Park City, UT. I’ve seen him around town every now and again. Kitty

Response:

I happened to be in line behind Mark O’Meara and 2 of his fishing friends this morning at the coffee and bagel store this morning. They were ready to head out and do some fly fishing.  Don’t know about their mental state, though.  Who would want to go wading in a freezing river in 30 degree weather with snow showers when you could be in warm and sunny Hilton Head! He has a place up here in Park City, UT. I’ve seen him around town every now and again. Kitty

Response:

Actually, my son got me up in Montana once and the trout were rising throughout the snow showers.  After the first bite, I didn’t notice the weather at all.  Heck, you are standing in 34 degree water all day anyhow! — regards,  RichG .

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I happened to be in line behind Mark O’Meara and 2 of his fishing friends this morning at the coffee and bagel store this morning. They were ready to head out and do some fly fishing.  Don’t know about their mental state, though.  Who would want to go wading in a freezing river in 30 degree weather with snow showers when you could be in warm and sunny Hilton Head! He has a place up here in Park City, UT. I’ve seen him around town every now and again. Kitty

Response:

Question:

Sierra Trading Post has some good prices right now on winter time clothes. I got some silk long johns, marino woolshirts etc. Shipping was prompt etc. I’ve always stopped in their store when I was in Casper but I just found their website. They carry quality outdoor clothing at substantial discounts. I’m not affiliated with them at all just like the quality and price on what they carry.     http://www.sierratradingpost.com/ Willi

Response:

Just got an "Ott Light" for my tying table.  Been using my wife’s for a few months.  I love this thing.  The light is more natural that incandescent or florescent bulbs and I find I don’t need the magnifier on some of the flies that I used to use.  If you know a tyer, its a great gift (or put one on your own list.).       Frank Reid – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sierra Trading Post has some good prices right now on winter time clothes. I got some silk long johns, marino woolshirts etc. Shipping was prompt etc. I’ve always stopped in their store when I was in Casper but I just found their website. They carry quality outdoor clothing at substantial discounts. I’m not affiliated with them at all just like the quality and price on what they carry. http://www.sierratradingpost.com/ Willi

Response:

Gentlemen, I would sincerely appreciate any advice for purchasing a winter "all – around"  but primarily fly fishing Gore-Tex type rain jacket.  It does not need to be Gore-Tex name brand just something similar and would like it to be an outdoor color, either solid brown, tan or camo would be suffice,  I would also like it to be more than just a shell so it will not only keep me dry but warm as well.  I do already layer properly with thinsulate and fleece but need something a little heavier for the very coldest of days in winter.  I live and fish primarily in Maryland and will begin shortly to fish in PA and WV.  I would also be glad to hear of any other suggestions for staying comfortable through the winter season. (Besides staying indoors) Sadly I can not afford top of the line products but anything in the $150.00 to $200.00 would be great. Thanks in advance, Tony Norton

Response:

Tony I have the old Bare sharkskin and it works fine.  The newer Bare models are olive and may be a bit higher than your price range but worth checking out. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Being in that part of the country it should be easy to get a military issue gortex field jacket WITH a liner.  I live in Ky and we can usually get them at Fort Knox for about 150.00 dollars.  I guess the key to this is knowing someone in the military who can get you this stuff. Being close to Ft. Meade and various other places it shouldnt be to hard for you.  If you know someone in the reserves they can get it for you.  I got all the clothing that I needed just before I got out except for the Gortex field jacket and I wish I would have gotten one myself. Roger – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gentlemen, I would sincerely appreciate any advice for purchasing a winter "all – around"  but primarily fly fishing Gore-Tex type rain jacket.  It does not need to be Gore-Tex name brand just something similar and would like it to be an outdoor color, either solid brown, tan or camo would be suffice,  I would also like it to be more than just a shell so it will not only keep me dry but warm as well.  I do already layer properly with thinsulate and fleece but need something a little heavier for the very coldest of days in winter.  I live and fish primarily in Maryland and will begin shortly to fish in PA and WV.  I would also be glad to hear of any other suggestions for staying comfortable through the winter season. (Besides staying indoors) Sadly I can not afford top of the line products but anything in the $150.00 to $200.00 would be great. Thanks in advance, Tony Norton

Response:

   I live about 3 miles from Ft. Meade and have found quite a few places where one can get the military gortex (mostly in Glen Burnie). I love the stuff.  Super durable and is relatively comfortable.  Gotex makes a spray that can reseal the gortex if its getting old.  A used jacket and the spray will be about half the price of the new.  Try Sunnies stores, there’s one on Richie Hwy north of 100.   If you don’t buy the military, make sure the seams are double stitched and sealed.  All pocket zippers should zip down to close and have a weather flap over the top.  If there is a hood, ensure that the hood is attached about halfway up the colar.  This will keep the wet off your neck when you take the hood off.  Make sure it is lined.  Gortex can be like a tent, if you touch it with your hand on the inside while it is wet, the damp can come through.  I don’t like the net linings, a good nylon taffeta inner is good.        Frank Reid – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Being in that part of the country it should be easy to get a military issue gortex field jacket WITH a liner.  I live in Ky and we can usually get them at Fort Knox for about 150.00 dollars.  I guess the key to this is knowing someone in the military who can get you this stuff. Being close to Ft. Meade and various other places it shouldnt be to hard for you.  If you know someone in the reserves they can get it for you.  I got all the clothing that I needed just before I got out except for the Gortex field jacket and I wish I would have gotten one myself. Roger Gentlemen, I would sincerely appreciate any advice for purchasing a winter "all – around"  but primarily fly fishing Gore-Tex type rain jacket.  It does not need to be Gore-Tex name brand just something similar and would like it to be an outdoor color, either solid brown, tan or camo would be suffice,  I would also like it to be more than just a shell so it will not only keep me dry but warm as well.  I do already layer properly with thinsulate and fleece but need something a little heavier for the very coldest of days in winter.  I live and fish primarily in Maryland and will begin shortly to fish in PA and WV.  I would also be glad to hear of any other suggestions for staying comfortable through the winter season. (Besides staying indoors) Sadly I can not afford top of the line products but anything in the $150.00 to $200.00 would be great. Thanks in advance, Tony Norton

Response:

Tony check out the Solitude "Ultima" jacket. I picked one up and it’s worked great for me I do a bit a fishing in the winter and I try to catch the ice-outs up north so I’ve worn it in some pretty crappy weather. It runs about $200, the compant compares it to the Simms model priced a bit higher. You can check it out at their sight http://www.solitude.com. Good luck, Bill

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gentlemen, I would sincerely appreciate any advice for purchasing a winter "all – around"  but primarily fly fishing Gore-Tex type rain jacket.  It does not need to be Gore-Tex name brand just something similar and would like it to be an outdoor color, either solid brown, tan or camo would be suffice,  I would also like it to be more than just a shell so it will not only keep me dry but warm as well.  I do already layer properly with thinsulate and fleece but need something a little heavier for the very coldest of days in winter.  I live and fish primarily in Maryland and will begin shortly to fish in PA and WV.  I would also be glad to hear of any other suggestions for staying comfortable through the winter season. (Besides staying indoors) Sadly I can not afford top of the line products but anything in the $150.00 to $200.00 would be great. Thanks in advance, Tony Norton

Response:

Question:

Keith,    Try the Leader Link, much better than loops and just as easy.  No splashy presentations, no moss hang up and no drag.  You should use a figure 8 knot to attach it because of you are using a 4 wt. line. Eagle Claw Country Store Phone 1-800-628-0108 4245 East 46th Avenue Denver Colorado 80216 Leader Link For tapered lines (LL1) For level lines     (LL2) There are 3 links per package and cost $2.83 per pack. Ernie Harrison See Ernie’s Fly-Fishing Stuff:   http://home.pacbell.net/ernie2 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If I’m using a DT 4 wt floating line, will putting a braided loop on the end of the line (like the type Cortland and Orvis sell) destroy any chance of delicate presentation? They do appear to change the taper of the line somewhat.  Will it mess up the weight distribution of the fly line train? I’m using a Dai-Riki 5x leader with a hand-tied loop to attach to the fly line. It sure does make changing leaders easy but would I be better off from a technical and presentation standpoint tying the leader directly to the fly line? Thanks for the advice in advance.

Response:

If I’m using a DT 4 wt floating line, will putting a braided loop on the end of the line (like the type Cortland and Orvis sell) destroy any chance of delicate presentation? They do appear to change the taper of the line somewhat.  Will it mess up the weight distribution of the fly line train? I’m using a Dai-Riki 5x leader with a hand-tied loop to attach to the fly line. It sure does make changing leaders easy but would I be better off from a technical and presentation standpoint tying the leader directly to the fly line? Thanks for the advice in advance.

Response:

If I’m using a DT 4 wt floating line, will putting a braided loop on the end of the line (like the type Cortland and Orvis sell) destroy any chance of delicate presentation? They do appear to change the taper of the line somewhat.  Will it mess up the weight distribution of the fly line train? I’m using a Dai-Riki 5x leader with a hand-tied loop to attach to the fly line. It sure does make changing leaders easy but would I be better off from a technical and presentation standpoint tying the leader directly to the fly line? Thanks for the advice in advance.

Keith, I recently started using the braided loop made by Cortland.  I see no difference in my presentation….it’s always terrible! Tim

Response:

I tried using these for a while and found it more difficult to cast.  I used them with sink tips and it really changed how I attempted to cast.  When I switched to floating line, the loops seemed to get caught in my guides more often then a nail knot ever did.  I still use them for my sink tips but I gave up on them for a floating line. Rooster – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If I’m using a DT 4 wt floating line, will putting a braided loop on the end of the line (like the type Cortland and Orvis sell) destroy any chance of delicate presentation?

Response:

Question:

After carefully weighing all the evidence, and hours of heart wrenching deliberation, I have come to the conclusion, that Walt just tripped over his "tackle" and was too modest/ashamed/proud/disgusted/afraid of incredulity, to admit it. TL MC

Response:

After carefully weighing all the evidence, and hours of heart wrenching deliberation, I have come to the conclusion, that Walt just tripped over his "tackle" and was too modest/ashamed/proud/disgusted/afraid of incredulity, to admit it. TL MC

jeez mike…don’t encourage ‘em. waldo the anaconda — Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This reminded me of an extremely puerile school rhyme I heard a long time ago, I don’t know who wrote it.  It is short, in contrast to it

Question:

Why not check out the tremendous striped bass/bluefish fly fishing up here in New England? June and July are two of the best months especially on Cape Cod and the Islands – check out Monomoy Island for flats fishing for stripers very similar to bonefishing in the FLA keys. Check out www.reel-time.com for additional info.

Response:

Any opinions regarding the best place for wading saltwater flyfishing destination in late June and July.  I am thinking about the West coast of Florida or the Texas coast. PK

Response:

Any opinions regarding the best place for wading saltwater flyfishing destination in late June and July.  I am thinking about the West coast of Florida or the Texas coast. PK

     You might also give a thought to the east coast of central florida. Things should be back to normal by then. If youve never fly fished the surf you ought to try it, it’s a hoot. A bunch of years ago I caught a flounder (exactly 3′ long) on a 7 wt. with #4 tippet on a streamer, it seems like yesterday. Any how from central florida you still have the gulf close enough plus indian river flats, surf, and fresh water in the St.John’s. Don’t you just feel so sorry for us guys who have to live here ?                                                            John Popp                                                           in Sanford Fl.

Response:

Question:

Hello all,

[much snipped] Years ago I read, "Smoke is only smoke to me, now that I am old."  So, Fishing is fishing.  Like the Water Rat said in The Wind in the Willows: Come along over some time.  We’ll drop down to the river and make a day of it. Jess Thompson

Jesse Debate is healthy and often fun, providing it doesn’t degenerate into the slinging about of low grade insults.  I wouldn’t sweat it too much.  Fishing is about fun, especially shared fun.  Hopefully, some of that fun gets shared in ROFF too.  But I’ve noticed that it’s the contentious issues that get all the ink.  I post a couple of flyfishing stories and they’re barely noticed, but my whining about rod prices generated about 200 repsonses when you count in the derivatives.  I guess it’s just human nature.   Anyway. I had a great year of fishing, and I hope everyone else that reads this ng, did too.  Hopefully, in the new year, we’ll catch that big brown that spurned all our offerings last summer. Peter

Response:

Well Peter, perhaps you whine better than you write. Just kidding, I enjoyed your stories. — Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail Ernie Harrison <snip I’ve noticed that it’s the contentious issues that get all the ink.  I

post a couple of flyfishing stories and  they’re barely noticed, but my whining about rod prices generated about 200 repsonses when you count in the derivatives.  I guess it’s just human nature.   <snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peter

Response:

Hello all, Please believe that I stumbled quite innocently into the fracus of C & E versus C & R.  And quite tardily.  Believe me also when I say that though I am old, I am not to old to learn, and to re-learn.  I should retract the statement  that I "slanted {the article Catch and Eat} purposely to arouse debate."   Talking over the pros and cons of a question, in a friendly fashion, I enjoy, but not dispute and name-calling.   It’s more correct to say that I wrote it rather, partly, in defense of those who received venomous messages for their positions.  And, because I had seen at times, on TV, what appeared to be careless C & R; and, because I think it’s okay to eat a fish now and then.  And surely, in the heat of reaction, I got a bit carried away.  If I had let the article cool longer, I would have toned down some of the more inflammatory passages.   The kind of fishing that’s done, C & E, C & R, fly, spoon, plug, bait–it all depends on who when what where and why.  The conditions, the fishing pressure, the fish populations, the locale. . . . But no matter what, we all like to fish; we all want to protect fish and fishing.   Mark Kelly, Steve Dsrt Traveler, Peter Charles, Moe, Ralph, Ernie, others (I don’t have all the names in front of me) have made good points–but it comes down to what Mark said–we all like to fish, we ought all,  finally, to support each other, and that’s exactly what I want to come back to. I’ve eaten  fish, I’ve  released fish, I’ve caught ‘em through the long years on worms, eggs, spoons, plugs, flies, treble hooks, barbless hooks, tiny hooks, big hooks, wild fish, hatchery fish, in pretty places, mucky places, and all of it,  any of it, well, "if it ain’t fun" I don’t know what is.  And the older you get, the more pleasant the memories of it all are.  Like all of us, I just wish we could all do more of it.   It’s fun if you catch fish or don’t catch fish, fun to watch others fish, to watch others catch fish.  I think it was Mark who fetched me up, properly, to remember that if we fight among ourselves, we don’t do the fishing world any good at all, but rather harm.   So I don’t want to rub sores, nor much care any more to wander off into the realms of mythology or animalism or primitivism or anthropology or philosophy. . .fishin’ is fishin’.   When we come down to earth, we know that.  In our better selves, we all know it:   Fishin’ is fishin’.   Exactly that. Years ago I read, "Smoke is only smoke to me, now that I am old."  So, Fishing is fishing.  Like the Water Rat said in The Wind in the Willows: Come along over some time.  We’ll drop down to the river and make a day of it. Jess Thompson

Response:

Hello all, Please believe that I stumbled quite innocently into the fracus of C & E versus C & R.  And quite tardily.  Believe me also when I say that though I am old, I am not to old to learn, and to re-learn.  I should retract the statement  that I "slanted {the article Catch and Eat} purposely to arouse debate."   Talking over the pros and cons of a question, in a friendly fashion, I enjoy, but not dispute and name-calling.

Well Jess, that whole subject is something of a sore spot around here. You can’t even mention it without starting a huge rucus. It’s more correct to say that I wrote it rather, partly, in defense of those who received venomous messages for their positions.  And, because I had seen at times, on TV, what appeared to be careless C & R; and, because I think it’s okay to eat a fish now and then.  And surely, in the heat of reaction, I got a bit carried away.  If I had let the article cool longer, I would have toned down some of the more inflammatory passages.

Ah!  Not to worry. <snip So I don’t want to rub sores, nor much care any more to wander off into the realms of mythology or animalism or primitivism or anthropology or philosophy. . .fishin’ is fishin’.   When we come down to earth, we know that.  In our better selves, we all know it:   Fishin’ is fishin’. Exactly that.

I agree whole-heartedly.  I seems though, that there is a rather curious factor involved.  It seems that FFing is taking on a religious quality complete with orthodoxy, traditions, dogma, and theology.  It schmecks of fundamentalism with the "our way or no way" attitude you see on our trout streams.  A blinkered ideology that leaves little or no room for ideas outside strict adherance to the status quo. But you sir are right.  Fishin’ is Fishin’.  No more no less.  I can’t save the world, hell it won’t even save the rivers.  Better to enjoy it for what it is, rather than what we may want it to be. Years ago I read, "Smoke is only smoke to me, now that I am old."  So, Fishing is fishing.  Like the Water Rat said in The Wind in the Willows: Come along over some time.  We’ll drop down to the river and make a day of it. Jess Thompson

Well said sir. </c — </chaz Chaz Clover The Paved Earth Society http://www.rmi.net/~clover/pave_the_earth   "Why Not Just Get On With It?"

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Question:

:   : Fishing Company and we have the Fly Tech waders in our online catalog at : I have been hearing good things about these waders and suspect that they I bought a pair of Fly-Techs 2 summers ago, looking for low-cost, light wieght pack waders. These were *junk*! The seam broke on the second use — the store took them back and said every one they sold ripped rightaway. They sent what they had left back, and will not stock FlyTech stuff again. I definitely wouldn’t buy these mail-order. But I’m just relating my experience; perhaps others have had better. Because of the boot-foot’s popularity in hunting, etc., you can get decent (though heavy) boot-foot waders at a reasonable price (my Red Balls are still going strong). But I’m still searching for some stocking-foot waders FRU (For the Rest of Us)… JonCook.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – :   : Fishing Company and we have the Fly Tech waders in our online catalog at : I have been hearing good things about these waders and suspect that they I bought a pair of Fly-Techs 2 summers ago, looking for low-cost, light wieght pack waders. These were *junk*! The seam broke on the second use — the store took them back and said every one they sold ripped rightaway. They sent what they had left back, and will not stock FlyTech stuff again. I definitely wouldn’t buy these mail-order. But I’m just relating my experience; perhaps others have had better. Because of the boot-foot’s popularity in hunting, etc., you can get decent (though heavy) boot-foot waders at a reasonable price (my Red Balls are still going strong). But I’m still searching for some stocking-foot waders FRU (For the Rest of Us)… JonCook.Jammerlab

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Rich, In response to your inquiry about boot foot vs stocking foot waders I prefer the bootfoot waders since my waders pull double duty for waterfowl hunting. I am always concerned about losing a boot when encoutering the muck associated with waterfowling. I am a representative of Champion Fishing Company and we have the Fly Tech waders in our online catalog at http://championfishing.com I have been hearing good things about these waders and suspect that they will be a good seller for us. Both stocking foot and boot foot waders are offered in both 3.5 and 5 mm weights as well as wading boots for the stocking foot waders. If you are interested in the Champion Fishing Company business opportunity check out my website at http://members.aol.com/blind10691/index.htm or e mail me for more info and a copy of our 200 page print catalog. Happy Fishing, Brett Lindsey

Brett,      I just pulled up "http://championfishing.com" and I was at the "Kerrville Telephone Company’s I-NET service" web page.  You may want to have someone look into this. However:    http://www.championfishing.com seems to work fine. Brian

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Hi Rich, In response to your inquiry about boot foot vs stocking foot waders I prefer the bootfoot waders since my waders pull double duty for waterfowl hunting. I am always concerned about losing a boot when encoutering the muck associated with waterfowling. I am a representative of Champion Fishing Company and we have the Fly Tech waders in our online catalog at http://championfishing.com I have been hearing good things about these waders and suspect that they will be a good seller for us. Both stocking foot and boot foot waders are offered in both 3.5 and 5 mm weights as well as wading boots for the stocking foot waders. If you are interested in the Champion Fishing Company business opportunity check out my website at http://members.aol.com/blind10691/index.htm or e mail me for more info and a copy of our 200 page print catalog. Happy Fishing, Brett Lindsey

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I fish exclusively in southern chile. I used to fish with boots. not anymore. shoes are far more pleasant to use than boots. I use Hodgman shoes and like them. That is my experience. Others may disagree. Mario http://www.inteligente.cl/Clientes/Sur_de_Chile/sur.html

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Fished in bootfoot wader for years and its time for a new pair.   Before I make the plunge for new ones would like to hear some of your opinions on which kind to buy (boot or stocking) as I can only afford one pair.  Also any comments on brands, types and/or styles would be appreciated. Thanks Rich

Hi Rich, Boot foot waders are very fast and easy to put on and are warmer in extreme cold. Great for certain situations. Stocking foot with lace up boots give you better foot protection and stability for hiking on streams. In our store in California we sell  99% stocking foot waders. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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How about durability ? I have owned a pair of Orvis stockingfoot for 5 years, I have used them a lot, and as a result there is still some neoprene between the patches and the aquaseal, I believe. Anyway, I have notices that even though I use gravel cuffs, I tend to get leaks in the foot area, because of friction between the boot and the wader (it is unavoidable, the shoe is flexible, thus there is friction). I am wondering if bootfoot waders are better from the viewpoint of leaks, or if they develop leaks at the joint between the wader and the boot. -Vittorio – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Fished in bootfoot wader for years and its time for a new pair. Before I make the plunge for new ones would like to hear some of your opinions on which kind to buy (boot or stocking) as I can only afford one pair.  Also any comments on brands, types and/or styles would be appreciated. Thanks Rich Hi Rich, Boot foot waders are very fast and easy to put on and are warmer in extreme cold. Great for certain situations. Stocking foot with lace up boots give you better foot protection and stability for hiking on streams. In our store in California we sell  99% stocking foot waders. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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Fished in bootfoot wader for years and its time for a new pair.   Before I make the plunge for new ones would like to hear some of your opinions on which kind to buy (boot or stocking) as I can only afford one pair.  Also any comments on brands, types and/or styles would be appreciated. Thanks Rich

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Fished in bootfoot wader for years and its time for a new pair. Before I make the plunge for new ones would like to hear some of your opinions on which kind to buy (boot or stocking) as I can only afford one pair.  Also any comments on brands, types and/or styles would be appreciated. Thanks Rich

i think that it depends on what time of year you do most of your fishing and how much walking you do in them.  i would never be without my bootfoots for winter fishing (they keep your feet so much toastier, and are so easy to get in and out of)  since you already own a pair you know the one major drawback is that they are a pain to dry out, from taking a cold water dunking or sweat.  in warmer weather i wear stocking foots, but am thinking of getting some bootfoots, because they are so much easier to get in and out of.  one other thing, if you have bad or weak ankles, bootfoots may not provide you with enough ankle support.  i would recommend quiet sport or bare waders.  both have great reputations.

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Best advise don’t buy rotten/cheap wading shoes….get the Borger shoe company that makes them ….sorry no address in WI somewhere…Millwaukee? Anyway once in awhile they have seconds which are of the high end boots like Simms, Streamline as they won’t wear any better or worse than any of the others. use a pair of nlyon Hodgeman’s about $40…..again 3 years old just died due to barb wire…….Cabela’s neoprenes are $90 aren’t bad……Mike — Enter the WWW fly tying contest by visiting my web site:http://www.commonlink.com/~Midwestflytying

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Fished in bootfoot wader for years and its time for a new pair. Before I make the plunge for new ones would like to hear some of your opinions on which kind to buy (boot or stocking) as I can only afford one pair.  Also any comments on brands, types and/or styles would be appreciated. Thanks Rich

I find that stockingfoot/boot combo feels more secure and gives me better ability to cope with uneven river bottoms in the current. However, I keep my first pair of bootfoots around for use in the salt, so I don’t have to worry about corrosion of grommets, etc. on the boots. By the way, I got a pair of Danners, which are kind of pricey, but certainly not as much as a good pair of hiking boots. If you like to get into strong current from time to time, I would highly recommend trying a pair on. The Danners feel like good athletic shoes compared to some of the stiffer wading boots. I have seen an ad for a wading shoe by Bare that looks very similar in construction to the Danner, and may have the same benefits. Fish on, Allen

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Question:

Does anyone know if you can fly to Karluk and just camp on the beach there and fish?  There is a lodge there; I wonder if they have any monopoly on fishing in the Karluk river. This is on the southwest coast of Kodiak Island, in Alaska. Appreciate any feedback anyone can give.  

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I would always be careful about camping on the beach in any location where there are substantial numbers of brown bears.  You can fly into Brooks River, for example, and camp in a USFS camp site as well as stay at the lodge.  But in the camp site, just a little way off the beach, all the food has to be cached.  And all the fish have to be cleaned in a single building, far away from the camp site. I’d check with locals on the available faciltiies at Karluk river.

04:57:08 GMT – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Does anyone know if you can fly to Karluk and just camp on the beach there and fish?  There is a lodge there; I wonder if they have any monopoly on fishing in the Karluk river.

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| | Does anyone know if you can fly to Karluk and just camp on the beach | there and fish?  There is a lodge there; I wonder if they have any | monopoly on fishing in the Karluk river. | Hello, I was on the Karluk for a week this fall. Drifted to the mouth and camped on the beach. There are bears (big bears !) and you do need to be careful. Limited cabins (primitive) are availble at Portage. The real monopoly if you want to call it that is access. Very interesting and productive river. Regards, Jeff

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Question:

Jensen) writes: Looking for foul weather gear

I would not look too hard for a bargin when looking for raingear, you will regret it later.  Get yourself some Grundens, Guy Cottons, or as a last resort some Helly Hansons(although Hellys have really gone down hill lately).  I work in the seafood industry in Alaska, and I have found that Grundens makes the best raingear out there.  And you can get it in day glow colors if you want to.  Look at comercial fishing outlets for them.

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: I would not look too hard for a bargin when looking for raingear, you will : regret it later.  Get yourself some Grundens, Guy Cottons, or as a last : resort some Helly Hansons(although Hellys have really gone down hill : lately).  I work in the seafood industry in Alaska, and I have found that : Grundens makes the best raingear out there.  And you can get it in day : glow colors if you want to.  Look at comercial fishing outlets for them. faulies, not me. But I would like to check out a commercial supplier in LA or OC, just to see what’s there.  Anyone know where to find one?

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-    I’m looking for foul weather gear but don’t want to pay the high prices – that the local stores charge.  Is there a good mail order place for this – stuff? I recently found a Helly Hansen mfg’s outlet store near Kenosha, Wisconsin.  I think they were just trying to sell yuppie sweaters and similar trendy stuff and they had their real foul weather gear on the shelf just to impress people. Never the less, they did have everything from their low end, $120 suits, to their high end, $900 suits.  They also had a hand written tag that explained in detail why each item was a mfg defect.  If I didn’t already have a suit I would have been very tempted to buy a $270 suit for $180 because they got their name embrodered on the wrong corner of the pocket. G. Jackson

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        I postedthis elsewhere so I’ll post it here.  Don’t get sucked in by all that expensive sailing oriented shit.  Read on.      On my first ocean cruise in 1981, I bought some "Offshore" foul weather gear at R.E.I. in Seattle.  Total piece of shit. After some pretty rough usage (we lost a rudder) and 31 days at sea, the seams leaked.  I took them back to R.E.I.  They said that they wern’t meant for the kind of sailing I do, but for the "weekend" sailor." I said "Well why the fuck! do you call it "Offshore"? To make a long story short, they wouldn’t refund my money and it just confirmed my opinion of R.E.I. as a fashion house for frustrated yuuppies. Growing up in Seattle, I have resisted the R.E.I Clone look mightily although I have to admit, Pile Jackets are great for me as I’m allergic to wool.      Where is this leading to?      Buy Helly Hansen fisherman foul weather gear. No seams, no fly, no pockets, NO LEAK!!!!  I’ve worn mine for 10 years fishing in Alaska and California and on many trans ocean sails.  Still wearing them.  My mother is borrowing them for a river rafting trip this month.  About $80 last time I bought (I have two pair) — — Turn off ascii capture on the personal computer 4;1H Press the <Return Key to return to mail … —

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     On my first ocean cruise in 1981, I bought some "Offshore" foul weather gear at R.E.I. in Seattle.  Total piece of shit. After some pretty rough usage (we lost a rudder) and 31 days at sea, the seams leaked.  I took them back to R.E.I.  They said that they wern’t meant for the kind of sailing I do, but for the "weekend" sailor."I said "Well why the fuck! do you call it "Offshore"? To make a long story short, they wouldn’t refund my money and it just confirmed my opinion of R.E.I. as a fashion house for frustrated yuuppies. Growing up in Seattle, I have resisted the R.E.I Clone look mightily although I have to admit, Pile Jackets are great for me as I’m allergic to wool.      Where is this leading to?      Buy HELLY HANSEN fisherman foul weather gear. No seams, no fly, no pockets, NO LEAK!!!! And they are tough as steel and easy to patch. I’ve worn mine for 10 years fishing in Alaska and California and on many trans ocean sails.  Still  wearing them.  My mother is borrowing them for a river rafting  trip this month.  About $80 last time I bought (I have two pair) —

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     I’m looking for foul weather gear but don’t want to pay the high prices that the local stores charge.  Is there a good mail order place for this stuff?                                      we suck!"

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:      I’m looking for foul weather gear but don’t want to pay the high prices : that the local stores charge.  Is there a good mail order place for this : stuff? I wouldn’t do it.  I would rather have something that fits.  I ended up with a "Grotto" jacket from Boat/US and Explorer trousers from West Marine because each fit properly.  (I can hear them fighting in the closet.) It’s kind of hit and miss because everything is S/M/L/XL. My biggest disapointment was the lack of rad colors. And my BIG IDEA, now placed in the public domain, is glow-in-the-dark zippers – so you can get them on at 3 am.

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