Question:

Hi folks, I’m Kenny.  Absent for several years, but previously pretty active on the ROFF (my 5 digit compuserve id dates me). Anyway, looks like the same eclectic mix of passionate people can be found here, piscator to PETA. Almost a time warp. I was wondering  if Tim from Colorado was still around?  You out there Tim you silver tongued devil you? Hopefully, I’ll hook up with some old friends and make some new ones. Best regards, K

Response:

Hi folks, I’m Kenny.  Absent for several years, but previously pretty active on the ROFF (my 5 digit compuserve id dates me). Anyway, looks like the same eclectic mix of passionate people can be found here, piscator to PETA. Almost a time warp.

Yup…same ol’, same ol’…. I was wondering  if Tim from Colorado was still around?  You out there Tim you silver tongued devil you?

No, he and Ginkles (Gehrke) ran off together, and are running a combination guide service, rod factory, and Dale Carnegie franchise in Bangkok.  Last they posted here, Tim was "deliriously happy with his life choice, the cuts on his ass have healed, and he finally got the whore piss smell out of his eyebrows and hair" and Ginkles said, "Berzie manngy candelazorp FUCK YOU DAVE CHOCOLETBURY!! semmeldug zoom-zoom lefty loves me trignomomitry giometry and we was a enginner until someone took our gloves.  Me go fly plane now…I’m cold, timmy….can I have a baht for some hooch…." Hopefully, I’ll hook up with some old friends and make some new ones.

Likely as not… TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Best regards, K

Response:

I was wondering  if Tim from Colorado was still around?  You out there Tim you silver tongued devil you?

Timmy’s still around, check alt.flyfishing. — Charlie…

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi folks, I’m Kenny.  Absent for several years, but previously pretty active on the ROFF (my 5 digit compuserve id dates me). Anyway, looks like the same eclectic mix of passionate people can be found here, piscator to PETA. Almost a time warp. I was wondering  if Tim from Colorado was still around?  You out there Tim you silver tongued devil you? Hopefully, I’ll hook up with some old friends and make some new ones. Best regards, K

Tim? Is that you? Talk to me. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

rw asks: Tim? Is that you? Talk to me.

He’s out back, pickling radishes. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

Response:

Question:

Lets hope he doesn’t also "teach" her how to wade.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s exciting Dave – I hope you can guide my girlfriend into a couple of those fish in September!  Looking forward to it…. Regards, Jeff

Response:

Yeah that’s a good point , she truly does not like swimming. Lets hope he doesn’t also "teach" her how to wade. That’s exciting Dave – I hope you can guide my girlfriend into a couple of those fish in September!  Looking forward to it…. Regards, Jeff

Regards, Jeff

Response:

He has to save you some fish. The rapid is no-kill on brook trout. Why do you think there are such big fish. Also at the time we’ll be there it’s no-kill on salmon also. Paul

i guess that means t-bone ain’t coming. waldo

Response:

He has to save you some fish. The rapid is no-kill on brook trout. Why do you think there are such big fish. Also at the time we’ll be there it’s no-kill on salmon also. Paul

What a great report Dave. Good luck in Labrador, you lucky son-of-a-gun. I can’t wait to join ya up there in Sept…. save us some fish! Walt

[snip]

Response:

Great report. I’d love to get into some big brookies like that but Maine is SO far.

That is what’s so great about Maine! — — MrG/American Sportsman http://www.gink.com/rod_facts/bastardjun00.html  LATEST BAMBOO FACTS "the saga continues"

Response:

Willi Loehman writes: Do you see this over population and stunting in your smaller waters?  

Yes.  But the Rapid is a large stream with very swift water.  It’s elevation drop is very steep, and because it is a tailwater, it is cold.  It has plenty of food, so the brookies thrive in its waters.  Five years ago you rarely saw a fish bigger than 15 inches, but since C and R has been  enforced, 3 pounders are common.   On the smaller streams in NH, VT and ME, you will see native brookies that are stunted for the reasons you state.  Pond brookies tend to be a little bigger than the small stream brookies.  I fished ponds in the Allagash Wilderness Area of Maine last year and caught many 15 – 18 inch fish.  An interesting aside:  I am used to the trout coming up directly under the fly for the "take".  The pond brookies that I fished for  came out of the water and took the fly on the way down.  Screws up your timing, that’s for sure!  <g Dave LaCourse

Response:

 For bigger brookies try fishing near the large boulder that is on the south side of Echo lake on Mt Evans.12-15 inch is not uncommon. —  Don Thompson  Zoomie(BushBug)  ACA#3460  TLCB#335  Any Time, Any Place  Pull the chocks, lets get this kite in the air. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Great report. I’d love to get into some big brookies like that but Maine is SO far. I assume the river you’re describing is a large one?  In the Rockies, for the most part, Brookies are confined to the smaller headwater streams.  Except for those streams that have beaver ponds on them, these stream Brookies are very small. Many of the streams and some of the ponds and lakes, tend to be over populated. The result is that the fish are stunted. Often 5 and 6 inch large headed fish are sexually mature and may be the largest that the stream produces. This is PARTLY due to the size and fertility of the streams. However, comparable streams with Browns, Rainbows or Cutts tend to have larger fish. Do you see this over population and stunting in your smaller waters? Willi

Response:

Great report. I’d love to get into some big brookies like that but Maine is SO far. I assume the river you’re describing is a large one?  In the Rockies, for the most part, Brookies are confined to the smaller headwater streams.  Except for those streams that have beaver ponds on them, these stream Brookies are very small. Many of the streams and some of the ponds and lakes, tend to be over populated. The result is that the fish are stunted. Often 5 and 6 inch large headed fish are sexually mature and may be the largest that the stream produces. This is PARTLY due to the size and fertility of the streams. However, comparable streams with Browns, Rainbows or Cutts tend to have larger fish. Do you see this over population and stunting in your smaller waters?   Willi

Response:

when the revolution comes, when all us peons will extract our revenge.  

You can have all the revenge you want; meanwhile I’ll be collecting their stuff<g. — Charlie…

Response:

What a great report Dave. Good luck in Labrador, you lucky son-of-a-gun. I can’t wait to join ya up there in Sept…. save us some fish! Walt

You took the words right off my screen.  The old bugger will have ‘em all before we get there. Peter good luck in Labrador

Response:

That’s exciting Dave – I hope you can guide my girlfriend into a couple of those fish in September!  Looking forward to it…. Regards, Jeff

Response:

Monday, June 20. Jeff, Brian and I arrived at Lakewood and had a wonderful lunch

        great report, laplac!         your indulgence in the paradise that you described, together with the wretched excess of the labrador trip, *plus* having that angel to come home to has placed you soundly at the side of stephen barnes when the revolution comes, when all us peons will extract our revenge.  if i were you, i’d practice my blindfolded cigarette smoking technique.         wayno, long time student of madame defarge

Response:

Monday, June 20. Jeff, Brian and I arrived at Lakewood and had a wonderful lunch before "suiting up" and heading to the river. Jeff was using an Orvis Rocky Mountain 6 weight, and Brian a Courtland 8 1/2 ft. 5 weight. I settled for my 4 weight Sage 9 footer. Instead of going down river, we settled on the dam and immediately were into some nice salmon (15+ inches). Neither Jeff nor Brian have a landing net, so they learned a trick or two on safely releasing big fish. Christmas is coming….. Tuesday morning we headed down-river and had the place to ourselves. Two locals  walked in about 9, but fished downstream from us. Both boys caught and landed 18 and 19 inch brookies on a size 20 bubble emerger. I stood by and took the fish off the hook and safely released them. What marvelous examples of brook trout! We fished the wing dam and first and second current all day and never caught a big salmon. Most were in the 10 – 12 inch range. Wednesday we again went down-river, and again, both boys got into some big trout using the same emerger. We discovered a new "holding area" for the brookies, fished it steadily for a couple of hours, but without success. These fish were difficult to catch. I watched a "regular" to the river, a terrific fly fisherman  who lives nearby and walks in a couple of days a week. He tried every trick and  fly he knew, but failed in getting even a small one to take his lure. We finished the day by going to the dam after lunch. I landed a 22 inch salmon  that broke the water 8 times — a guest at the camp counted, I didn’t. It was a terrific afternoon with all three of us landing several salmon in the 16+ range. Thursday morning, back to the wing dam and the large brookies. I took a 20 incher and Brian an 18 incher. Jeff wasn’t feeling well and spent the morning in bed. He did, however, go to the dam with us after lunch. I found my way out to my favorite "perch" and took about 20 salmon from 12 – 20 inches, all on a cream colored caddis worm, size  16 and 18 fished slow and deep. About 5 o’clock, I went after brookies that I knew were holed-up in the white bubbly water at the bottom of one of the dam shutes. The boys had heavily fished this spot on previous days, but were unsuccessful in raising any of the behemouths that live in the bubbles. It would have been easier if I had a ten foot rod, because I really couldn’t reach the current and bubbled water with my 9 footer. I wasn’t casting — dabbing would be a more accurate description. To get closer, I got in the water — mistake #1!  I had a senior moment when I slipped and went head first into a pool about 6 feet deep. Well, now that I was completely soaked, there was no sense in "taking it easy". I managed to get upon the rock I wanted, and on my second "dab" a giant, monster of a brookie took the emerger. He took two laps of the small pool and headed into the fast water. And I imagine he is still there, laughing at me. I fished for another 20  minutes before I attempted to leave. Not thinking, I had my second senior moment of the day, and went into the same pool backwards. Does Orvis sell water-wings? Friday was slow, both down-river and at the dam. Very few fish were being taken.  All three of us did manage to get our brookies on the wing-dam, but they were small ones – about 14 inches. We went to what I have named the "V" current, and stood within five feet of the largest brookie I have ever seen in these waters. It was at least 24 inches long. And it was feeding — the boys watched it for several minutes as it moved a couple of inches one way and then the other to pick up morsels of  food floating down stream. I was using the cream colored caddis in a size 18, hoping that small was what he wanted. I set the hook on a take, and saw that it was a six inch chub. I didn’t bother to put it on the reel — I wanted him off as quickly as possible, so I stripped in the few feet of line, only to have it ripped from my hand. Jeff yelled that the big brookie had taken my chub. He could see the head of the chub sticking out of the trout’s mouth. Off he went, ripping off line like there wasn’t any drag. The "fight" lasted about 30 seconds before he let go.  I landed the small chub and it had teeth marks on both sides right behind its gills. There was some blood. The same thing happened to Brian within an hour — he wanted to "fish" with the fish. An ethics conversation followed. I have always fished this river using 75% dries and 25% nymphs.  However, this week it was almost exclusively nymphs.  I think I caught two salmon on traditional dry fly patterns.  Although there were several hatches during the week, the fish were not actively rising to them.  I watched several emerging caddis struggling to get airborne, safely drifting over water that I knew contained both trout and salmon.  Friends in camp, traditionally dry fly fishermen, were at a loss as to what to do.  I convinced a couple to try nymphing and gave them a couple of successful patterns.  Voila!  They caught fish.   Emergers and nymphs — the only way to travel!  Don’t leave home without them. It was a great week of fishing — not because I caught some wonderful fish on flies that I tied ,but because I saw my grandsons have such a memorable time catching big brookies and salmon, nymphing like their grandpa showed them. It doesn’t get much better than that. Jeff and I fly out of Logan next Thursday for 8 days in Labrador.  And it is all dry fly fishing, including a mouse pattern for *really* big brookies.  <g Dave LaCourse

Response:

What a great report Dave. Good luck in Labrador, you lucky son-of-a-gun. I can’t wait to join ya up there in Sept…. save us some fish! Walt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Monday, June 20. Jeff, Brian and I arrived at Lakewood and had a wonderful lunch before "suiting up" and heading to the river. Jeff was using an Orvis Rocky Mountain 6 weight, and Brian a Courtland 8 1/2 ft. 5 weight. I settled for my 4 weight Sage 9 footer. Instead of going down river, we settled on the dam and immediately were into some nice salmon (15+ inches). Neither Jeff nor Brian have a landing net, so they learned a trick or two on safely releasing big fish. Christmas is coming….. Tuesday morning we headed down-river and had the place to ourselves. Two locals  walked in about 9, but fished downstream from us. Both boys caught and landed 18 and 19 inch brookies on a size 20 bubble emerger. I stood by and took the fish off the hook and safely released them. What marvelous examples of brook trout! We fished the wing dam and first and second current all day and never caught a big salmon. Most were in the 10 – 12 inch range. Wednesday we again went down-river, and again, both boys got into some big trout using the same emerger. We discovered a new "holding area" for the brookies, fished it steadily for a couple of hours, but without success. These fish were difficult to catch. I watched a "regular" to the river, a terrific fly fisherman  who lives nearby and walks in a couple of days a week. He tried every trick and  fly he knew, but failed in getting even a small one to take his lure. We finished the day by going to the dam after lunch. I landed a 22 inch salmon  that broke the water 8 times — a guest at the camp counted, I didn’t. It was a terrific afternoon with all three of us landing several salmon in the 16+ range. Thursday morning, back to the wing dam and the large brookies. I took a 20 incher and Brian an 18 incher. Jeff wasn’t feeling well and spent the morning in bed. He did, however, go to the dam with us after lunch. I found my way out to my favorite "perch" and took about 20 salmon from 12 – 20 inches, all on a cream colored caddis worm, size  16 and 18 fished slow and deep. About 5 o’clock, I went after brookies that I knew were holed-up in the white bubbly water at the bottom of one of the dam shutes. The boys had heavily fished this spot on previous days, but were unsuccessful in raising any of the behemouths that live in the bubbles. It would have been easier if I had a ten foot rod, because I really couldn’t reach the current and bubbled water with my 9 footer. I wasn’t casting — dabbing would be a more accurate description. To get closer, I got in the water — mistake #1!  I had a senior moment when I slipped and went head first into a pool about 6 feet deep. Well, now that I was completely soaked, there was no sense in "taking it easy". I managed to get upon the rock I wanted, and on my second "dab" a giant, monster of a brookie took the emerger. He took two laps of the small pool and headed into the fast water. And I imagine he is still there, laughing at me. I fished for another 20  minutes before I attempted to leave. Not thinking, I had my second senior moment of the day, and went into the same pool backwards. Does Orvis sell water-wings? Friday was slow, both down-river and at the dam. Very few fish were being taken.  All three of us did manage to get our brookies on the wing-dam, but they were small ones – about 14 inches. We went to what I have named the "V" current, and stood within five feet of the largest brookie I have ever seen in these waters. It was at least 24 inches long. And it was feeding — the boys watched it for several minutes as it moved a couple of inches one way and then the other to pick up morsels of  food floating down stream. I was using the cream colored caddis in a size 18, hoping that small was what he wanted. I set the hook on a take, and saw that it was a six inch chub. I didn’t bother to put it on the reel — I wanted him off as quickly as possible, so I stripped in the few feet of line, only to have it ripped from my hand. Jeff yelled that the big brookie had taken my chub. He could see the head of the chub sticking out of the trout’s mouth. Off he went, ripping off line like there wasn’t any drag. The "fight" lasted about 30 seconds before he let go.  I landed the small chub and it had teeth marks on both sides right behind its gills. There was some blood. The same thing happened to Brian within an hour — he wanted to "fish" with the fish. An ethics conversation followed. I have always fished this river using 75% dries and 25% nymphs.  However, this week it was almost exclusively nymphs.  I think I caught two salmon on traditional dry fly patterns.  Although there were several hatches during the week, the fish were not actively rising to them.  I watched several emerging caddis struggling to get airborne, safely drifting over water that I knew contained both trout and salmon.  Friends in camp, traditionally dry fly fishermen, were at a loss as to what to do.  I convinced a couple to try nymphing and gave them a couple of successful patterns.  Voila!  They caught fish.   Emergers and nymphs — the only way to travel!  Don’t leave home without them. It was a great week of fishing — not because I caught some wonderful fish on flies that I tied ,but because I saw my grandsons have such a memorable time catching big brookies and salmon, nymphing like their grandpa showed them. It doesn’t get much better than that. Jeff and I fly out of Logan next Thursday for 8 days in Labrador.  And it is all dry fly fishing, including a mouse pattern for *really* big brookies.  <g Dave LaCourse

– Walter G. Winter Ezflyfish.com:  http://www.ezflyfish.com Blue Ridge Book Gallery: http://www.crosswinds.net/~brbg/books/brbg-2.html

Response:

Question:

Got into Boiling Springs around 8:00 and decided to try the easy access to Yellow Breeches at the Allenberry Playhouse.  Turns out Joe Humphreys was having a FF school, starting that very night, through Sunday noon.  Well, I’m a Joe Humphreys "fan" I guess you could say, having met him a couple times and read his book and liked what I got out of it.  Ed Shenk was teaching with him (originator of the Letort Cricket, Letort Hopper, Shenk’s Sculpin, etc.)  About 120 years of experience there.  Even though I thought it was kind of pricey ($365) and I had already missed a couple hours, I decided to sign up on a whim.  My "review" of the school is a mixed one, as is my opinion of the stream (keep in mind this is the first time I ever fished there, and only a small stretch at that.) The catch and release stretch behind Allenberry gets unbelievable pressure.  At least I’m not used to that much pressure.  Friday evening there were about 8 people in sight within a hundred yard stretch or so.  They were flailing the water, but I never saw anyone catch anything.  This is a well stocked area by the way.  They were getting record heat, and the water temp was up to about 70, despite the cold spring flow from Boiling Springs.  Well, Joe walks out into the middle of all that to demo to us: "This is how you fish a wet fly", and he pulls out 2 trout in 10 minutes.  "This is how you fish a nymph", and pulls out 3 trout in 15 more minutes.  I guess the other fishermen are used to seeing that because no one raised an eyebrow.  Looked easy enough to me. Class was supposed to start 8:00 the next morning (at the breakfast table – not enough fishing time for me!)  So I got on the stream at 6:15 and fished the same area he did, with nymphs.  I was not alone, but had some elbow room.  By 8:00 I had caught 4, as well as foul hooked 2 more, which tells me they really must have been stacked in some of those feeding lanes.  These were stocked fish of about 9-11".  I thought it would be an easy weekend to fish (boy was I wrong.)  When I left, the stream was packed again. To make a long story short about the class, Joe and Ed are obviously good and experienced fishermen.  They went over all the stuff you would think, and with the obvious problems.  There were 5 beginners (4 had never cast a fly rod), and 3 of us who had fished at least a year.  The 3 of us had to hear a lot of things we already knew, while the raw beginners didn’t get the intro on some topics they needed.  While Ed was showing blood knots for tying tippet to leader, someone would lean over and ask me what a tippet was.  While Joe was talking about terrestrial dries, someone would ask me if they were called terrestrials because they float on the surface instead of sink. On the other hand, some of the casting and just plain fishing information was very informative in a sort of piecemeal way.  They each brought their own unique ideas on how to do things, and it didn’t always jibe with the traditional, popular ways.  Part of the fun was eating meals and just hanging out with these guys, and hearing stories, etc.  e.g. Joe mentioned that sometimes trout are right or left hand feeders.  Ed gave him shit about the "one-eyed trout".  Seems Joe had some students at a stream obsrerving a trout feeding to one side.  He explained why it might feed only to that side because of various conditions, and he cast to the other side repeatedly and couldn’t catch it.  Then he cast to the correct side, and hooked and landed it.  When showing the trout, it turns out it’s left eye was injured and completely blind.  I learned Joe used to coach wrestling, and I used to wrestle.  As we walked away from the table once he went to put his hand on my shoulder, and as a joke I threw in an arm lock.  He immediately wrenched me right back and said "You’ll never get it."  I got the distinct impression he could have ground me into the mat.  Not bad for a 71 year old guy.  Ed guides the area streams, such as the Letort (for a very reasonable rate by the way) and said we could give him a call if we wanted to go sometime.  I asked if he had an email address, at which point he called me "one of those wiseass computer guys."  (he does not have email, but email me and I’ll give you his phone number if you think you’d like to hire him.)  When I would make a bad double haul, Joe said he was gonna kick my ass.  Point being, they seemed to know what kind of ribbing each person could take, as each person seemed to feel like they got treated well by them in terms of instruction.  They were much gentler to the newbies Joe seems to have a competitive attitude toward fishing.  He considers every set of conditions a challenge, and he fishes with raw determination and will power when "the chips are down".  As I alluded to earlier, the fishing was tough.  Other than Joe and Ed, I only saw a few fish caught that weekend. Those fish were tough.  The highlight for me was fishing for about 2 hours on Sunday with various dries without getting so much as a look from a fish.  Joe took 3 of us fishing down the stream and it turned into us basically looking over his shoulder as he fished.  He really worked every pocket, every cast.  He caught 3 fish in 45 minutes, and 2 really left an impression on me.  The last one I never even saw, and I don’t know how he found it, but once he showed us we could just *barely* see it.  He could not raise the fish with about 10 drifts.  He said "You wanna see how to catch a fish like that?"  He cut off the dry and tied on a grey scud.  His cast was perfect the first time, about 3 feet ahead of the fish *directly* in its lane.  I never saw the fish take it, and neither did the other 2 guys, so we were surprised when he set the hook.  Yet he hooked it square inside the jaw.  That’s just one example we saw, but after having watched him for the weekend, I think the guy can just flat out *fish*. At one point during this period, we counted FIFTEEN other fishermen within view.  I really can’t say I cared much for this stream.  So much hard work for very fished over, finicky fish that when all was said and done were still just 8-12" stocked fish.  Again, I’m just talking about a quarter mile or so stretch at the Allenberry, and maybe other stretches would be better.  Also, as I said the water temps were getting up there and maybe the fish were just getting a bit stressed.  If it hadn’t been for my early morning jaunt I wouldn’t have caught a fish.  In fact only 1 guy (or maybe 2) in the group did, and I don’t think that’s a very good introduction for beginners.  On the other hand, the accomodations and food and easy stream access were pluses. As I left town, I stopped in the Yellow Breeches Fly Shop.  I thought this was a very nice shop, and the 2 guys in there were very helpful and personable. They also had a very impressive book collection – the biggest I’ve ever seen in one store, in fact.  I added a few to my collection – "In the Ring of the Rise" is of course a classic, and a couple chapters were what I expected, but that sure is a strange book.  Also got a nice Montana guide and map book (one more month!) Regards, Jeff

Response:

Yellow Breeches, PA and Allenberry FF school report

hello- please e-mail direct for some advice on trout streams near Allenberry where there is little or no pressure and lots of trout. A day after the stocking truck leaves, and the truck followers leave, the streams are mostly wide open.Cumberland county (Allenberry) has lots of mountain streams and lots of good fishing.I’d be pleased to give out info.

Response:

Got into Boiling Springs around 8:00 and decided to try the easy access to Yellow Breeches at the Allenberry Playhouse.  Turns out Joe Humphreys was

Very nice report again. Keep them coming Jeff. TL MC — "In order to know what is possible one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de "

Response:

I’ve fished two weekends with Joe Humphreys, trying to catch the Green Drake hatch on Pine Creek.  He’s not a startling distance caster.  But he is amazing with placement, on the water and around obstacles.  And he is beyond compare with tight line nymphing, which takes care of 90% of a trout’s diet.   In a place (Cedar Run?) where I had caught two little native Brook Trout, one still with parr marks, by approaching a little pool on my knees, he banged in three casts and took two 9" Brookies and a 14" Brown.   He did it by casting under a branch from more than 25 feet away, landing at the foot of the pool twice in the feeding lanes of trout that had spooked away when I approached the pool and then casting another 5 feet up the pool against a ledge where the dominant trout in the pool was hiding.  In an area where I couldn’t find room for a 15 foot backcast. On the Yellow Breeches, Herb Weigel of Cold Spring Anglers (717-245-2646) guided me into 5 or 6 well conditioned, bright colored holdovers or stockers while the rest of the assembly line of flyfishers in the special regulations area seemed to be coming up dry.  Bright dot midge dry fly.  I found the experience gratifying (I looked like I knew what I was doing) but I’d rather spook a merganser on a lesser stream than hit a crowd of fellow fishers. My 2 cents worth. GKT

Response:

Question:

My own opinion is that the future of the sport lies in lotteries or tickets for limited access to the most popular waters, and encouraging fishermen to spread their days over a diversity of waters, and to limit their days fishing if need be. Right now, I don’t think people really fish too often, just that they concentrate those days on the few well-publicized "gold medal" waters…

I whole heartedly support limited access. I don’t know how the change the pattern of high concentration on a few select waters in any other way. Willi

Response:

….what was the guy thinking when he did this? I hadn’t heard a single word about it till you posted this.  Now, I might look it up.  What were you thinking? I did think about this and hesitated about posting. However, the stream has been discussed on ROFF in the past, the RMN has a circulation of over half a million readers who live in proximity to the stream, the stream is not and never will be a destination water, etc. etc.

O.K., so you aren’t worried about ME coming to fish there.  It’s only the residents of Denver and it’s immediate environs that you wish to EXCLUDE in this particular instance; only anyone who is likely to want to go there.  And this comes to us from a man just coming down off a week long rant about the exclusionary atmosphere in ROFF.  The same man, by the way, who thinks it is a good idea to exclude human beings altogether from certain areas.  So, we are all required to be nice to the newbies and tell them everything they need to know about HOW to fish, but not let anyone know about Willi’s favorite spots in Colorado.  And I’ll bet a shiny new nickel that anytime someone tells you about a SECRET stream you make a point of staying away from it in order to keep the pressure down, right?  You sir, are a monumental hypocrite.

Response:

My own opinion is that the future of the sport lies in lotteries or tickets for limited access to the most popular waters, and encouraging fishermen to spread their days over a diversity of waters, and to limit their days fishing if need be. Right now, I don’t think people really fish too often, just that they concentrate those days on the few well-publicized "gold medal" waters… I whole heartedly support limited access. I don’t know how the change the pattern of high concentration on a few select waters in any other way.

Publicize less popular waters?  I think if Colorado were actually worried about it, the first step would be to stop publicizing the "gold-medal" waters.  Since they continue, I have trouble believing that they find the crowding to be as big a problem as those here on ROFF do.      - Ken

Response:

I whole heartedly support limited access.

What about a minimum age requirement, say 50? Give the youngsters something to look forward to. — Charlie…

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ….what was the guy thinking when he did this? I hadn’t heard a single word about it till you posted this.  Now, I might look it up.  What were you thinking? I did think about this and hesitated about posting. However, the stream has been discussed on ROFF in the past, the RMN has a circulation of over half a million readers who live in proximity to the stream, the stream is not and never will be a destination water, etc. etc. O.K., so you aren’t worried about ME coming to fish there.  It’s only the residents of Denver and it’s immediate environs that you wish to EXCLUDE in this particular instance; only anyone who is likely to want to go there.  And this comes to us from a man just coming down off a week long rant about the exclusionary atmosphere in ROFF.  The same man, by the way, who thinks it is a good idea to exclude human beings altogether from certain areas.  So, we are all required to be nice to the newbies and tell them everything they need to know about HOW to fish, but not let anyone know about Willi’s favorite spots in Colorado.  And I’ll bet a shiny new nickel that anytime someone tells you about a SECRET stream you make a point of staying away from it in order to keep the pressure down, right?  You sir, are a monumental hypocrite.

Isn’t that the mantra of all the hypocrites here?   "I want less crowds…all the rest of you stop fishing" Hey, I’m as selfish as the next person, but at least I admit it.       – Ken

Response:

I whole heartedly support limited access. What about a minimum age requirement, say 50? Give the youngsters something to look forward to. — Charlie…

Sounds like a good idea Charlie except the minimum age for the prime spots should be 70. Ernie

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Sounds like a good idea Charlie except the minimum age for the prime spots should be 70.

Let’s implement it gradually so that is true in about 18yrs<g. — Charlie…

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I really like that idea a bunch! I whole heartedly support limited access. What about a minimum age requirement, say 50? Give the youngsters something to look forward to.

Harry Mason www.troutflies.com

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Isn’t that the mantra of all the hypocrites here? "I want less crowds…all the rest of you stop fishing" Hey, I’m as selfish as the next person, but at least I admit it.       – Ken

Absolutely.  It’s highly ironic that everyone professes to want to promote the sport while at the same time decrying the numbers of people found on the water.  The jealous secrecy attached to particular hallowed favorite waters is especially telling.  I’m not fond of encountering crowds on the waters I fish either, but it’s easy enough to find something secluded.  As for the health of the waters themselves, individual bodies only remain popular so long as there are sufficient numbers of fish to maintain a high level of interest; not many people are going to stay for long on a stream with no fish in it.  So, a favorite stream gets written up in a magazine.  Everybody goes there and pretty soon all the fish are dead.  Everybody stops going.  A few years later the stream has recovered and in the meantime everybody is busy doing the same thing to another.  Or, thousands of people converge on a stream, the stream maintains high fish populations and life goes merrily on. Anyone TRULY interested in reducing fishing pressure on their favorite streams (or any other for that matter) should immediately do three things:  1.  Stop fishing NOW!  2. Stay OFF this news group.  3. Encourage anyone who plans to stay in ROFF to roast EVERY newbie who comes along.

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<< .. I did email the guy with my opinions about it, but what was the guy thinking when he did this?

I have been dealing with the same thing here in Spokane.  The local outdoor writer, who by the way happens to be an old time fly fisher, has taken to talking non stop about the blue ribbon lakes up in my hometown area.   He is vague when he talks about his own favorite waters but brags up these alpine lakes to no end.  As a result, there were over 200 fly fisherman on my favorite lake this opening weekend when two years ago there were only 40 people. Mike

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Maybe the guy was thinking that responsibility for stream-use management belongs to the DWR.

He could have made this point without naming the stream itself. I also don’t think that was his slant. He is pretty much of the opinion that C&R is THE solution to all of Colorado’s problems. The numerous public meetings he mentioned that are scheduled to discuss upcoming regs for a number of our waters should be well attended, hotly debated affairs. Willi

Response:

but what was the guy thinking when he did this? He was thinking about selling newspapers.

About two years ago, Fly Fisherman magazine did an issue with two articles on small trout streams, located only minutes away from Los Angeles and Phoenix.  I wonder how many fish were left a month or so after they hit the newsstands. If you scan through the back issues of FFM from the early ’80’s onward, you notice that practically every issue mentions the Bighorn River — at first with titles like "America’s Greatest Trout River," but they start turning into "Over-crowding on the Bighorn."  I have yet to see any sort of mea culpa or any other sign of self-consciousness from the editorial staff though. Kevin

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….what was the guy thinking when he did this? I hadn’t heard a single word about it till you posted this.  Now, I might look it up.  What were you thinking?

I did think about this and hesitated about posting. However, the stream has been discussed on ROFF in the past, the RMN has a circulation of over half a million readers who live in proximity to the stream, the stream is not and never will be a destination water, etc. etc. Willi

Response:

he wasn’t thinking, at all.  this brings to the forefront my primary concern regarding the present and future state of this sport.  there are too damn many people who fish, and those who do fish, fish too often.

The situation here in Colorado is that although there have been fewer licenses sold over the last few years, but there are now many more fly fishermen who fish many more days per year.  The result is historically high pressure on our streams and rivers. anyone who exposes a fragile resource such as the one willi describes should be banned from fishing for a substantial time, after a severe ass whipping.     and yeah, this is the primary reason why i don’t get enthused over making certain that the sensibilities of newbies are massaged.  there’s a gracious plenty of us out there as it is.

Although I definitely DON’T think that’s an excuse for being an asshole toward people, I agree that we don’t need more people fishing the streams and rivers. We are in a unique position, in that with most endeavors, if there is more interest, more facilities can be built to accommodate them. You can’t build a trout stream. Willi

Response:

… I did email the guy with my opinions about it, but what was the guy thinking when he did this?

Outdoor writers have to walk a fine line between being vague and therefore irrelevant to their readers and "spilling the beans" so to speak and perhaps harming the spots they write about. I basically agree it’s a bad idea to publicize places that are best left well enough alone but I do have some sympathy for the dilemma outdoor writers face too. — Ken Fortenberry

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….what was the guy thinking when he did this?

I hadn’t heard a single word about it till you posted this.  Now, I might look it up.  What were you thinking?

Response:

there are too  damn many people who fish, and those who do fish, fish too often.

Hey speak for yourself Mr. "I live only a few short hours away from heaven on Earth" Harrison. The only fishing I’m doing these days is in my dreams. But in heartfelt agreement on the punishment due that writer. —- Wayne Knight Expert in creating tailing loops and windknots Otherwise Fishless in Kansas Before you buy.

Response:

but what was the guy thinking when he did this?

He was thinking about selling newspapers. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

   he wasn’t thinking, at all.  this brings to the forefront my primary concern regarding the present and future state of this sport.  there are too damn many people who fish, and those who do fish, fish too often.  anyone who exposes a fragile resource such as the one willi describes should be banned from fishing for a substantial time, after a severe ass whipping.    and yeah, this is the primary reason why i don’t get enthused over making certain that the sensibilities of newbies are massaged.  there’s a gracious plenty of us out there as it is.

Yeah!!  You tell it.  Anyone who wasn’t fishing pre-1974 (chosen so that I just barely meet the requirement) shouldn’t be allowed on the water at all.  And all you who do meet that requirement can’t take your kids with to even let them see the water.  It’s a special club dontcha know. Hey, here’s a thought, since it’s all you boomers out there that are causing the crowds, why don’t we just regulate you all off the water? It’d get rid of the crowds…      - Ken

Response:

The point is that this is a small stream that can’t sustain a great deal of pressure. It could be easily fished out and even with C&R, crowds are totally inappropriate on such a small stream. Denver has a large population of fishermen. I did email the guy with my opinions about it, but what was the guy thinking when he did this? Willi

    he wasn’t thinking, at all.  this brings to the forefront my primary concern regarding the present and future state of this sport.  there are too damn many people who fish, and those who do fish, fish too often.  anyone who exposes a fragile resource such as the one willi describes should be banned from fishing for a substantial time, after a severe ass whipping.     and yeah, this is the primary reason why i don’t get enthused over making certain that the sensibilities of newbies are massaged.  there’s a gracious plenty of us out there as it is.     wayno

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The point is that this is a small stream that can’t sustain a great deal of pressure. It could be easily fished out and even with C&R, crowds are totally inappropriate on such a small stream. Denver has a large population of fishermen. I did email the guy with my opinions about it, but what was the guy thinking when he did this?

Maybe the guy was thinking that responsibility for stream-use management belongs to the DWR. –Steve

Response:

In the Rocky Mountain News today, there is an article by Ed Dentry discussing fishing on a small stream in the foothills of Denver. The stream actually runs through some of Denver’s suburbs. The article was about how the stream was ignored by fishermen on their way to more distant waters and that some of the landowners in the area were attempted to put C&R regs on the stream. It’s been 15 years since I lived in the Denver area, but when I did, this stream was my local favorite. It was VERY lightly fished and held some nice fish, especially in the urban sections. A guy who has posted trip reports to ROFF about the stream, lives in an apartment right next to it and echoes my memories of it. The point is that this is a small stream that can’t sustain a great deal of pressure. It could be easily fished out and even with C&R, crowds are totally inappropriate on such a small stream. Denver has a large population of fishermen. I did email the guy with my opinions about it, but what was the guy thinking when he did this? Willi

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Question:

Great idea rw, except think of the following scene; – Attractive divorcee in slinky outfit with a cocktail at the Captain Cook Hotel to young rich good looking FF guy; – " Hey, it’s the last night of our trip and we got on so well together, I thought we could have dinner and get to know each other a little better". -Rich good looking FF guy; – "Gee, I’d sure like to do that, but maybe some othertime, leave your home number for me at reception, I’ve got to respool my Abel and get some flies ready, you know it’s high tide in 30 minutes – my last chance to get a really *big* bone!"

Well, SHE wants a big bone, too. If he’s not up to the task, too bad. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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rw writes: If I were looking for a woman, which I’m not, I’d take dance classes.

Tap or ballet?  <g Dave L.

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Have you mentioned to her the Ennis Montana destination.  Say around July 21st to the 31st? Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I advised her to book vacations at elite destination fishing resorts in Alaska, the Carribean, Christmas Island, Chile, and so on. I assured her that she’d have men (single and otherwise) falling all over her, <snip

Response:

… If I were looking for a woman, which I’m not, I’d take dance classes.

One of the world’s foremost experts in this field, our own Indian Joe, recommends the produce section of the grocery store as the best place to meet women. — Ken Fortenberry

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<snipped some … Hey, by the end of our conversation I had her interested in bonefish!

and i thought vern had the january "asadi award" wrapped up… jeff

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Well, SHE wants a big bone, too. If he’s not up to the task, too bad.

Hmmmm… Y’know I love this sport and all but that’s would not be too difficult a choice (panting). The fish will always be there but when her particular tide turns then it may never come back… I don’t thinks there’s a one here who would argue that fact… "MEN will do ANYTHING for sex (well withing reason)." I got that from a comedy routine… I dunno the actual commedian… — Michael Era

Question:

I’m looking for a fresh water fly fishing buddy.  I live in Fairfax county.

Response:

OK weevee66.  You wanna fish for trout and smallmouth or are shad, carp, largemouth, catfish and other trash fish your main quarry?  When were you born and what is your real name?  Many of us posted brief Bios awhile back. Care to do the same?  Send me a private e-mail with a detailed listing of all your best secret fishing holes and we will talk.  I’m just outside of Fredericksburg. Wayne To fish is human…to release divine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m looking for a fresh water fly fishing buddy.  I live in Fairfax county.

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Question:

Howdy FFers, I was planning on a 3 day float trip with an outfitter in Oregon in September with some friends.  Has anyone been on one of these trips in September?  Which river could give the best experience for some "inexperienced"  Flyfishers…

snip John I would opt for floating the Deschutes from Mack’s Canyon to the mouth.  Should be excellent steelhead fishing at that time of the year.  I highly reccommend the crew at the Fly Fishing Shop at Welches, Or.  Excellent guides and great company.  They only run three guides and two of them are the owners.   Try www.teleport.com/~flyfish/ for a description of their trips or call them at 503-622-4607.  I think they also have a 1-800 number.  800-266-3971 but have never used it so can’t swear it’s still a valid number.   No finicial relationship just a satisfied customer. Jim Jones For e-mail reply replace spam with sns Jim Jones For e-mail reply replace spam with sns

Response:

Howdy FFers, I was planning on a 3 day float trip with an outfitter in Oregon in September with some friends.  Has anyone been on one of these trips in September?  Which river could give the best experience for some "inexperienced"  Flyfishers… Best wilderness?  Best outfit?  We could do trout, steelhead, or smallmouth for fun.   Any suggestions? Thanks in advance for your help, -John —        My Policy is to ALWAYS Blame the Computer

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Question:

: :Is it really possible-as our friend with his first boat seems to think it :is-for  any  GPS to "steer" a boat running WOT around all these hazards?   no, the accuracy is only good to 50ft or so under ideal conditions. — george jefferson

Response:

| Now, the question: | | Is it really possible-as our friend with his first boat seems to think it | is-for  any  GPS to "steer" a boat running WOT around all these hazards?   | Seems to me it would take a complete map of the bottom and more waypoints | than any  device could handle. | | Peggie Hall/Peal Products | Specializing in marine toilet systems since 1987 | (And should prob’ly stick to giving plumbing advice only!) | | Peggie, If your boating friends make such wide-sweeping assumptions that you do, then I can understand why they would run aground in the middle of a channel! Actually, many ocean-going boats have much more advanced guidance and navigation systems than most of the lake-trailers that you see on Lake Lanier. Auto-pilots and GPS combined are used by many fishing and scuba outfits to drop almost dead-on a target with minimal search. I’ve seen it done many times. Please read what I have written again. If I was looking for a target, why would I run WOT? However, if I was heading for a fishing spot on, say, Lake Hiwassee, and I knew the GPS co-ordinates, then why do you fail to see the value in inland lake GPS? Actually, there are GPS maps of many lakes available, with features pre-programmed. Plug and play, as it were. I doubt that any electronics, whether it be GPS or marine radios, can replace the instrument between your ears. Now, you want to talk useless. With a toilet at every ramp, who needs a marine toilet?

Response:

I doubt that any electronics, whether it be GPS or marine radios, can replace the instrument between your ears.

Absolutely true. You mentioned going fast, night running, unfamiliarity with powerboats, unfamiliarity with the lake (which has a nasty habit of changing week to week)…and spoke of using a GPS to do your navigating. But from your above comments, it’s obvious I misread your intent to use it to navigate going fast at night…Sorry!  However,  when you’ve heard as many stories as I have about some of the ideas new boat owners have, it’s understandable.  The best one recently was a dealer who told me about a first time buyer who wanted GPS and an autopilot on his new houseboat so it could take him back to his slip at night if he was too drunk to do it himself! I see bass boats hauling all over the lake at night at WOT (more often than not with no lights showing BTW)… occasionally hear of  tragic consequences….I just don’t want you to be  one of  ’em. Now, you want to talk useless. With a toilet at every ramp, who needs a marine toilet?

Anyone who has a boat with enough privacy for one who doesn’t  want to go find a toilet on land every time his wife has to pee! <gg Bring that shiny new toy up my way one of these days and I’ll buy you a beer…it’s the least I can do after insulting your intelligence! Peggie Hall/Peal Products Specializing in marine toilet systems since 1987

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WARNING – This post will have little content. I picked up my first bass boat on Saturday and I am gleaming from ear to ear.

Welcome to boating!  I plan to add a Bimini top, fishfinder(s), bilge pump (not included!), and a tachometer, once the checkbook balances out. I even have to add tie-down cleats! I put in another 6 gallon tank.

Welcome to the reality of owning (and dumping money into) a boat . . .

Response:

For one thing, you’ll learn that GPS isn’t a speedometer…it stands for Global Positioning System…it’s a computerized satellite navigation system that tells you where you are and what course to steer in latitude/longitude terms. Since you can always see the shore on all sides, you don’t need one to find your way home on Lanier!

Gee, my GPS displays current course and speed. (In knots, statute miles per hour, or km per hour) If you go over the the sci… groups, you can debate whether the speed is calculated based on delta-t / delta-d or doppler shift. Lee Lindquist     lindquist ‘at’ ibm.net "Only 2 more years until people stop telling me when the millenium REALLY ends."

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For one thing, you’ll learn that GPS isn’t a speedometer…it stands for Global Positioning System…it’s a computerized satellite navigation system that tells you where you are and what course to steer in latitude/longitude terms. Since you can always see the shore on all sides, you don’t need one to find your way home on Lanier! Gee, my GPS displays current course and speed. (In knots, statute miles per hour, or km per hour) If you go over the the sci… groups, you can debate whether the speed is calculated based on delta-t / delta-d or doppler shift.

So I’ve heard from a dozen people via e-mail!  Since there’s no real practical use for ‘em on an inland lake, the only ones I’ve seen were on friends’ sailboats on the Chesapeake Bay….and those only showed course and position. The owners  all have separate knotmeters. How ’bout expanding  my learning curve a bit more…first, the lake conditions: Lanier is a river in the foothills of the Smokies that was dammed and spread out over hills & valleys…around 260′ deep at the dam, but as little as 15′ deep up "creeks" out of the main channel. The water level fluctuates as much as 13′…what’s  6′ below the surface-and no problem–at full pool can "rise" to 2′ below it in a  matter of a week or two,  much of  it in the middle of  channels.  And the shoreline "moves" as a result.  In fact, the shoreline is "expanding" and islands  are shrinking–some have disappeared –due primarily to wake…Lanier is the most-used Corps of Engineers lake in the country. While the areas that are always shallow, many of which are passable when the lake is at full pool, but not when it’s down as little as 2′,  are marked,  it’s impossible to mark the ones that appear and disappear with fluctuating water levels as fast as often happens …and markers get knocked down. "Local knowledge" of the reefs and shoal waters is  essential…prop and outdrive repair accounts for a major percentage of the marine repair  business around the lake…even seasoned boaters who’ve been on the lake for more than a decade fall victim, proceeding VERY cautiously even in the daytime, and especially at night. Just last fall a friend who’s had a houseboat on the lake for more than 20 years lost an outdrive on an unmarked shoal in the main  channel of the lake, more than 100 yds from the shore…running at about  1200 rpms, but not paying enough attention to his course. Now, the question: Is it really possible-as our friend with his first boat seems to think it is-for  any  GPS to "steer" a boat running WOT around all these hazards?   Seems to me it would take a complete map of the bottom and more waypoints than any  device could handle. Peggie Hall/Peal Products Specializing in marine toilet systems since 1987 (And should prob’ly stick to giving plumbing advice only!)

Response:

| Congratulations!  You’re about to find out why B.O.A.T. stands for Break | Out Another Thousand! <gg | | However…. | | I am new to powered boats, but have driven friend’s boats. This boat | will fly! I am not sure how fast, though – no GPS, yet. I plan to add… | | But first do the rest of us on Lanier–and yourself–a HUGE favor: take | a Coast Guard Auxiliary or US Power Squadron boating safety course! | | For one thing, you’ll learn that GPS isn’t a speedometer…it stands for | Global Positioning System…it’s a computerized satellite navigation | system that tells you where you are and what course to steer in | latitude/longitude terms. Since you can always see the shore on all | sides, you don’t need one to find your way home on Lanier! | | You DO need a VHF radio, however…so you can call for help when you run | out of gas. <GG | | A boating safety course costs nothing but the time to do it. You’ll | learn the rules of the road, correct VHF procedure, how to read a chart, | how to recognize when weather is building and get to shelter before the | storm hits (I’ve been on Lanier in sudden squalls packing 45 knot | winds–NOT where someone in a 17′ open boat wants to be!)…safety gear | and how to use it–what’s required…a whole BUNCH of information that | could save your life–or mine. <g | | Have fun and be safe!  When you get the radio (and learn how to use it), | call SOLITAIRE…I’d love to see your boat. | | Peggie Hall/Peal Products | Specializing in marine toilet systems since 1987 | | Peggie | Thanks Peggy, I am reading a boating safety manual right now, which is probably more than most boaters do as a minimum. It is not my first time on the water, just my first power boat. I’ve have four other boats under the deck. Thanks, too, for the info on the GPS. I was trying to head off the corrective comments about speedometers not being accurate. GPS is a lot more useful than just finding your way back to the dock, in my estimation. It can be a safety device in tough boating conditions such as inclement weather or just being in the dark. Shorelines can be tricky to read in the dark, and one might not want to run next to waterway markers if there is a boat anchored nearby. Last, but not least, GPS can be used to re-locate positions, whether it be underwater cover, building foundations (my wife and I are divers, as well), and submerged islands, particularly on the distant lakes where I plan to trailer my boat. Not too sure I need a VHF radio, though. I’ve got twelve gallons of gas and I am an awful cautious. I switch over a tank leaving enough to get back on in the empty. I prefer to have a HONKIN’ bilge pump with a redundant back-up to buy me enough time to get to safety or shore. I have been in a thirteen foot Ghenoe on a river when it was raining so hard and the boat was filling with water so fast that I couldn’t stop bailing long enough to set the gear out of the boat on the bank! I’ve also paddled the Ocoee river in my kayak a few of times and gotten chewed up by Double Trouble and Diamond Splitter, as well as Hell Hole and Double Suck, but I’ll say this…it wasn’t as thrilling as cruising the lake in MY BASS BOAT!!! See you on the water.

Response:

Congratulations!  You’re about to find out why B.O.A.T. stands for Break Out Another Thousand! <gg However…. I am new to powered boats, but have driven friend’s boats. This boat will fly! I am not sure how fast, though – no GPS, yet. I plan to add…

But first do the rest of us on Lanier–and yourself–a HUGE favor: take a Coast Guard Auxiliary or US Power Squadron boating safety course! For one thing, you’ll learn that GPS isn’t a speedometer…it stands for Global Positioning System…it’s a computerized satellite navigation system that tells you where you are and what course to steer in latitude/longitude terms. Since you can always see the shore on all sides, you don’t need one to find your way home on Lanier! You DO need a VHF radio, however…so you can call for help when you run out of gas. <GG A boating safety course costs nothing but the time to do it. You’ll learn the rules of the road, correct VHF procedure, how to read a chart, how to recognize when weather is building and get to shelter before the storm hits (I’ve been on Lanier in sudden squalls packing 45 knot winds–NOT where someone in a 17′ open boat wants to be!)…safety gear and how to use it–what’s required…a whole BUNCH of information that could save your life–or mine. <g Have fun and be safe!  When you get the radio (and learn how to use it), call SOLITAIRE…I’d love to see your boat. Peggie Hall/Peal Products Specializing in marine toilet systems since 1987 Peggie

Response:

I think its great that you got you’re first boat. I bought my first boat as well last week. Its an old boat a ‘72 Starcraft with a small motor (35 HP). We took it out Sunday and ran around a local lake. Sonce i was a kid I’ve wanted a boat. Someday, I’ll upgrade, but I’m just in heaven from this boat. I did not catch any fish my first time out, but I did not really try. Have fun and be safe. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – WARNING – This post will have little content. I picked up my first bass boat on Saturday and I am gleaming from ear to ear. I bought a 17ft Grumman with console steering with a 50HP Johnson with pwr trim/ tilt. Two casting decks, aerated livewell, and a Johnson foot-operated trolling motor. My wife and I went out both Saturday and Sunday on Lake Lanier (north of Atlanta) and just had a blast. I caught a small spotted bass (about 1-1/4#) and she made me bring him home and clean him, since it was the inaugural bass, in the first 15 minutes of fishing! I am new to powered boats, but have driven friend’s boats. This boat will fly! I am not sure how fast, though – no GPS, yet. I plan to add a Bimini top, fishfinder(s), bilge pump (not included!), and a tachometer, once the checkbook balances out. I even have to add tie-down cleats! I put in another 6 gallon tank. This boat sips fuel, though. My wife loves it and the dogs were great for their first trip out. Got to get that bimini top on, though, for everyone’s sake. There was hardly anybody on the lake, especially yesterday. Although, it was partly sunny, we saw only a dozen boats. Great time for us to try out our new baby. The name of our new boat? Well, I guess we’re getting silly as we age, but we call our new Ford truck the "Golden Boy" (after the "Seinfeld" episode), so our aluminum boat is called the "Silver Queen", after the corn we love to pick out of our teeth. See you on the water…

Response:

This is what it is all ABOUT!!! Tear it up Tom & family…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – WARNING – This post will have little content. I picked up my first bass boat on Saturday and I am gleaming from ear to ear. I bought a 17ft Grumman with console steering with a 50HP Johnson with pwr trim/ tilt. Two casting decks, aerated livewell, and a Johnson foot-operated trolling motor. My wife and I went out both Saturday and Sunday on Lake Lanier (north of Atlanta) and just had a blast. I caught a small spotted bass (about 1-1/4#) and she made me bring him home and clean him, since it was the inaugural bass, in the first 15 minutes of fishing! I am new to powered boats, but have driven friend’s boats. This boat will fly! I am not sure how fast, though – no GPS, yet. I plan to add a Bimini top, fishfinder(s), bilge pump (not included!), and a tachometer, once the checkbook balances out. I even have to add tie-down cleats! I put in another 6 gallon tank. This boat sips fuel, though. My wife loves it and the dogs were great for their first trip out. Got to get that bimini top on, though, for everyone’s sake. There was hardly anybody on the lake, especially yesterday. Although, it was partly sunny, we saw only a dozen boats. Great time for us to try out our new baby. The name of our new boat? Well, I guess we’re getting silly as we age, but we call our new Ford truck the "Golden Boy" (after the "Seinfeld" episode), so our aluminum boat is called the "Silver Queen", after the corn we love to pick out of our teeth. See you on the water…

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WARNING – This post will have little content. I picked up my first bass boat on Saturday and I am gleaming from ear to ear. I bought a 17ft Grumman with console steering with a 50HP Johnson with pwr trim/ tilt. Two casting decks, aerated livewell, and a Johnson foot-operated trolling motor. My wife and I went out both Saturday and Sunday on Lake Lanier (north of Atlanta) and just had a blast. I caught a small spotted bass (about 1-1/4#) and she made me bring him home and clean him, since it was the inaugural bass, in the first 15 minutes of fishing! I am new to powered boats, but have driven friend’s boats. This boat will fly! I am not sure how fast, though – no GPS, yet. I plan to add a Bimini top, fishfinder(s), bilge pump (not included!), and a tachometer, once the checkbook balances out. I even have to add tie-down cleats! I put in another 6 gallon tank. This boat sips fuel, though. My wife loves it and the dogs were great for their first trip out. Got to get that bimini top on, though, for everyone’s sake. There was hardly anybody on the lake, especially yesterday. Although, it was partly sunny, we saw only a dozen boats. Great time for us to try out our new baby. The name of our new boat? Well, I guess we’re getting silly as we age, but we call our new Ford truck the "Golden Boy" (after the "Seinfeld" episode), so our aluminum boat is called the "Silver Queen", after the corn we love to pick out of our teeth. See you on the water…

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I have been fly fishing for awhile now and I always hear that chirnomids are the key.  Any info on how to fish these little creatures would be most helpful!

Depends on whether you’re fishing them in rivers or lakes. In rivers generally I like to fish them dead drift (both pupa and larval imitations).   I fish them under an indicator with 6x (hopefully) or 7x (if I must) tippet set to the depth of the water and a small split shot about 6" above the fly.  In spring creeks the indicator will only move once out of every 4 strikes or so and you’re better off watching the fish for a feeding move if you can see him when the ‘cator gets close.  If the fish’s head snaps from the side to center, STrike! If the fish moves over and stops, STRike!  If you see the white flash of the fish’s mouth opening, wait until it closes and STRIke!   If you think it might be your fly but you’re not sure, STRIKe!!   You have nothing to lose and if it was you and you didn’t strike, the fish may not pick it up again and you’ve lost out.  If in doubt, STRIKE!! You can also fish a pupa imitation in the film by putting some fly floatant only on the thorax).  This will allow it to hang down from the suface just like the natural does (this only works on a fresh fly not a waterlogged one).  You’ll see the strike as a sipping rise. If they are taking the fully emerged adults, fish the midge on the surface.  If you get a refusal – the fish turns away or the water just bulges under your fly, trim the hackle off the bottom of the fly and cut the tail in half. This will drop it slightly into the film and will usually take the fish that just refused it.  If you don’t see a small bubble in the riseform, then the fish is not breaking the surface and hanging it an inch under the water sometimes works real well.  Treat your leader with fly floatant up to about 1"-2" away from the fly but not on the pupa itself.  This will hang the fly just under the surface.  Sometimes the take is visible as a rise and sometimes the take just looks like a bulge in the water – STRIKE! In lakes I also often use an indicator with my pupa imitations to more accurately imitate the manner in which  they approach the surface.  Attach the indicator about 5′ above the fly and a small split shot about 6" from the fly.  Cast the fly out and allow it to sink for 10 seconds or so. Strip the fly back to you in 6-7" strips with the rod tip in the water so that when you pull on the line you are pulling on the fly.  Strip it just fast enough to make a small wake with the indicator.  This method makes the fly swim up to the surface more vertically than without an indicator and makes a big difference in success.  Watch the ‘cator closely as the fish will often take the fly as it stops moving and sinks a little before the next strip.  Even if the fish takes it as you have it under tension, the indicator will twitch slightly before you feel it.  These are most effectively fished over weedbeds (chironomid hotels). I set up dries and emergers in lake the same way I outlined for rivers, but I try to give them a little twitch from time to time since there is no current. Helps attract the fish’s attention and adds a little more realism to the presentation.  Remember this is a twitch not a 1 or 2" pull – would have to be super midge to move that far.  If you get the slack out of the line and get your rod tip slightly under water you can do this twitch pretty effectively. Don’t overdo it.                            Hope this helps,                                    Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Schools Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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Question:

That’s true. Starting with the RPL+ rods, at least that’s what my flyshop guys said. Gerhard

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"Sage rods, reels and blanks carry an unconditional, original-owner guarantee. Regardless of cause, Sage will promptly repair or replace any rod, reel or blank that is defective or damaged free of charge. In addition, we promise to give you the best service and repair in the industry and we will return ship your rod, reel or blank within 7 working days" That is right off of the back cover of the 1996 Sage catalog. The same warranty also applies to Lamson reels. Clay

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Summary: Sage Unconditional Lifetime Warrenty?  A tackle shop guy told me that next year Sage rods will have an unconditional lifetime warrenty. So if your dog chews up the Sage years from now Sage will fix or replace it free with no questions asked. Can anyone confirm or deny this statement? -regards Wayne V Ohh.. the tackle guy also stated the price will be increasing 7%.

Wayne, your source was correct.  The rods will have an unconditional warranty.  Prices are going up and they have a new series of rods the Rpl +.  They look really good.  We have found that they cast better with more control than the Rpl’s.  The Rpl 4 pieces have been dropped so if you want one better grab it now. Ken

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That’s true. Starting with the RPL+ rods, at least that’s what my flyshop guys said. Gerhard

I’ve also heard the warranty applies to blanks as well. Very good news. Bob Petti Endwell, NY

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(SNIP) That is right off of the back cover of the 1996 Sage catalog. The same warranty also applies to Lamson reels.

Which are now owned by Sage, right? Bob Petti Endwell, NY

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   The "lifetime replacement guarantee" on the label doesn’t tell the whole story. Most manufacturer’s will replace a broken rod for relatively little money.    We break many rods in our flyfishing classes. For fun we sent back a broken rod each to SAGE, LOOMIS, FENWICK, WINSTON and SCOTT. We used a friends letterhead and return address so the companies wouldn’t have incentive to treat us any better than their regular rod repair/replacement.    SAGE: We sent the rod in on Monday and had a new one on Thursday (Blue Label UPS). We have broken several Sage rods, and all of them have been replaced within a week. Incredible service like this should be rewarded.    LOOMIS: They sent us reciept of our broken rod and had us verify shipping address. Total turn around was 8 working days and cost was $30.00 for a new tip.    FENWICK: They sent us a new rod in three weeks but it was the wrong rod. We called them and they arranged for us to pick up a new one off a local dealer’s shelf.    WINSTON: This was the only rod sent with a defect (The internal ferrule fell out). They took 6 weeks to repair the rod then charged us $30.00. We made a complaint on plain stationary and they stood by their charge. We made a second complaint on our flyfishing school letterhead and they not only reversed the charge but sent us a couple of hats.    SCOTT: It took 5 months and two phone calls to get the rod back. I hate to say this because I love Scott rods and am good friends with many of their staff. Tight lines, Ralph Cutter —

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  A tackle shop guy told me that next year Sage rods will have an  unconditional lifetime warrenty. So if your dog chews up the Sage  years from now Sage will fix or replace it free with no questions  asked.  Can anyone confirm or deny this statement?  -regards  Wayne V  Ohh.. the tackle guy also stated the price will be increasing 7%.

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