Question:

RW No, I disagree. I think Deanbot stopped posting at just about the time it had become clear that Clinton/Gore’s release from the energy reserve was having the intended effect on prices and supplies. Deanbot was grossly wrong and not about to deal with it. Same old same old as far as the Clinton haters go: if the facts don’t hold up, fade; if you can cover it up it didn’t happen. If you can’t cover it up, say the Demo commies did it. Like Ive said before, it is time to take back the Republican Party from these clowns, and give the American people a good second centrist alternative; Now THAT would be truly conservative. Dave McCain was the one. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The way I see it, Ken, is that I needled Richard Dean so bad with the "Deanbot" stuff that he stopped posting for awhile. I get the feeling, though, that Richard has a sense of humor and doesn’t really hold a grudge about it.

Response:

Dave McCain was the one.

We do agree on something.  Would have liked to see him in.  Maybe next time, hopefully. Natty Before you buy.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yeah Edwin… I thought it was funny too and nothing more than that… if the NY officials take it as a serious attempt to defraud the system and keep people from voting, that seems pretty weak… I mean when was the last time election day WASN’T on the first Tuesday of November?? I also was amazed at the uproar here in California re the website that was offering to "trade votes"…. because Gore is expected to win in California, a lot of Nader supporters didn’t want to see their votes "wasted" and want to ensure the Green Party gets it’s 5% for federal matching funds…. so they were offering people in other states to sign up for "trade a vote"…. I’ll vote for YOUR candidate in MY state if you’ll vote for MY candidate in YOUR state… The State Attorney General shutdown the website saying that the process was illegal as it altered the voting process and was essentially "influencing vote outcome" … now the AG has come under fire for shutting down the site because that’s in violation of a federal law =) go figure….

I’d heard about that, and I actually wondered if the Nader people weren’t behind it.  I would think someone there would have realized the danger – even he got 5%, it would be charged (and possibly correctly) that it wasn’t a "real" 5%, and therefore, the Greens weren’t entitled to matching funds.   No matter who won, R’s or D’s, neither would be too amused with Nader, and both would likely enjoy seeing him get skewered on his own sword. As to the email, I’ve seen both variants, R’s vote Nov. 7th, and D’s the 8th, and vice-versa, so maybe it’s like "Suppose They Gave an Election and Nobody Voted…." <G TC, R

Response:

I’d heard about that, and I actually wondered if the Nader people weren’t behind it. …

What’s up with this, rw ? Not enough time before the election to implement all the new software ? I was hoping to see a little bit of flyfishing in the new release to make Dickybot appear more lifelike. Frankly, I don’t see that this version of Dickybot is any improvement over the last. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

I’d heard about that, and I actually wondered if the Nader people weren’t behind it. … What’s up with this, rw ? Not enough time before the election to implement all the new software ? I was hoping to see a little bit of flyfishing in the new release to make Dickybot appear more lifelike. Frankly, I don’t see that this version of Dickybot is any improvement over the last.

The way I see it, Ken, is that I needled Richard Dean so bad with the "Deanbot" stuff that he stopped posting for awhile. I get the feeling, though, that Richard has a sense of humor and doesn’t really hold a grudge about it. I do feel kind of bad about it, though, and I’d really like to move on if you don’t mind, or even if you do mind. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’d heard about that, and I actually wondered if the Nader people weren’t behind it. … What’s up with this, rw ? Not enough time before the election to implement all the new software ? I was hoping to see a little bit of flyfishing in the new release to make Dickybot appear more lifelike. Frankly, I don’t see that this version of Dickybot is any improvement over the last. The way I see it, Ken, is that I needled Richard Dean so bad with the "Deanbot" stuff that he stopped posting for awhile. I get the feeling, though, that Richard has a sense of humor and doesn’t really hold a grudge about it. I do feel kind of bad about it, though, and I’d really like to move on if you don’t mind, or even if you do mind.

I thought the "Deanbot" stuff was funny, hence my playing along.  I was, and still feel the name stuff is taking offensive liberties a they were politely asked not to do so, as I explained, but it is the who and not the what – I don’t mind friends _joking_ because it is not meant in a derogatory way, but _no one_ on ROFF is close enough as of yet to take such liberties.  I _stopped_ posting for a number of reasons, most having nothing whatsoever to do with particular people on ROFF – there are other demands on the time of a capitalist running dog…ecosystems to get out of balance, trees to cut, etc.<G, and I didn’t realize I needed to explain or "check out" <G.   Now, I will say, I almost didn’t but ROFF on the new system because of the reasons explained elsewhere, geeky wannabe verbal bullies like fartingfairy (my spell checker suggests "Farthingale"….hmm) and puppydog could no more drive me away from where I wanted to be than they could act like gentlemen…. TC, R PS – Farthingale might be a good name for him – although I know no one _named_ "Farthingale," I know some that _could_ be named Farthingale, and Fartingfairy sounds like one of them….

Response:

Now, I will say, I almost didn’t but ROFF on the new system because of the reasons explained elsewhere, geeky wannabe verbal bullies like fartingfairy (my spell checker suggests "Farthingale"….hmm) and puppydog could no more drive me away from where I wanted to be than they could act like gentlemen…. TC, R PS – Farthingale might be a good name for him – although I know no one _named_ "Farthingale," I know some that _could_ be named Farthingale, and Fartingfairy sounds like one of them….

Sir; In the interest of preserving the dignity of this august group, I am afraid I must refrain from telling just what I thi….mph……ahem, what I mphphphph….BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Response:

 Due to an anticipated voter turnout much larger than originally  expected, the polling facilities may not be able to handle the load all  at once.  Therefore, Democrats are requested to vote on Tuesday, November 7, and  Republicans on Wednesday, November 8.  Please pass this message along and  help us to make sure that nobody gets left out.

Response:

Larry, Last nite here in albany Ny, local media had mention of this kooky style email that if floating around. Personally, I think it is quite funny.  But I wondered why it would be mentioned onthe news? turns out NY authorities are taking a grimmer view of the email,even though it seems clearly to be a joke.  Keeping someone from voting is a felony. And Ny authorities are taking this email as an attempt to keep people form voting.  Efforts are afoot to track down the originator of the email. DO with that info what you will.. cheers edwin (apparently, ny authorities have even less of a sense of humor than is visible on ROFF)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Due to an anticipated voter turnout much larger than originally  expected, the polling facilities may not be able to handle the load all  at once.  Therefore, Democrats are requested to vote on Tuesday, November 7, and  Republicans on Wednesday, November 8.  Please pass this message along and  help us to make sure that nobody gets left out.

Response:

Yeah Edwin… I thought it was funny too and nothing more than that… if the NY officials take it as a serious attempt to defraud the system and keep people from voting, that seems pretty weak… I mean when was the last time election day WASN’T on the first Tuesday of November?? I also was amazed at the uproar here in California re the website that was offering to "trade votes"…. because Gore is expected to win in California, a lot of Nader supporters didn’t want to see their votes "wasted" and want to ensure the Green Party gets it’s 5% for federal matching funds…. so they were offering people in other states to sign up for "trade a vote"…. I’ll vote for YOUR candidate in MY state if you’ll vote for MY candidate in YOUR state… The State Attorney General shutdown the website saying that the process was illegal as it altered the voting process and was essentially "influencing vote outcome" … now the AG has come under fire for shutting down the site because that’s in violation of a federal law =) go figure….

Response:

The State Attorney General shutdown the website saying that the process was illegal as it altered the voting process and was essentially "influencing vote outcome" … now the AG has come under fire for shutting down the site because that’s in violation of a federal law =) go figure….

It’s a very interesting situation. The question is whether the websites offer an "inducement" to vote a certain way, which is illegal. I think a case could be made either way. The ACLU is seeking a temporary restraining order on the Attorney General’s action against the web site on 1st Ammendment grounds. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Question:

One of the most valuable "how to" books on fly fishing I have had the pleasure of reading is "The Cast" by Ed Jaworski. He has recently published a new book, "Troubleshooting the Cast", a paper back book which addresses 32 common casting problems. The book is well written, and the diagrams are easy to follow and uncluttered. I got my copy in the mail this last week and have been using some of his techniques to work out some kinks on a pond here in Kansas, especially I problem I have casting weighted flies. I highly recomend those of you who might have a little casting kink check it out. Your friendly gear whore and singlemaltmeister. Wayne

Response:

How much was it and where can I get it on-line? — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One of the most valuable "how to" books on fly fishing I have had the pleasure of reading is "The Cast" by Ed Jaworski. He has recently published a new book, "Troubleshooting the Cast", a paper back book which addresses 32 common casting problems. The book is well written, and the diagrams are easy to follow and uncluttered. I got my copy in the mail this last week and have been using some of his techniques to work out some kinks on a pond here in Kansas, especially I problem I have casting weighted flies. I highly recomend those of you who might have a little casting kink check it out. Your friendly gear whore and singlemaltmeister. Wayne

Before you buy.

Response:

The back cover lists the price $12.95 and I bought mine at amazon.com Wayne

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How much was it and where can I get it on-line? — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html One of the most valuable "how to" books on fly fishing I have had the pleasure of reading is "The Cast" by Ed Jaworski. He has recently published a new book, "Troubleshooting the Cast", a paper back book which addresses 32 common casting problems. The book is well written, and the diagrams are easy to follow and uncluttered. I got my copy in the mail this last week and have been using some of his techniques to work out some kinks on a pond here in Kansas, especially I problem I have casting weighted flies. I highly recomend those of you who might have a little casting kink check it out. Your friendly gear whore and singlemaltmeister. Wayne Before you buy.

Response:

The back cover lists the price $12.95 and I bought mine at amazon.com

I just ordered one from there. My wife hates ‘one click’ ordering<g. — Charlie…

Response:

One of the most valuable "how to" books on fly fishing I have had the pleasure of reading is "The Cast" by Ed Jaworski.

Hey Walt, is this available at EZFlyfish? Joe F.

Response:

One of the most valuable "how to" books on fly fishing I have had the pleasure of reading is "The Cast" by Ed Jaworski. Hey Walt, is this available at EZFlyfish? Joe F.

Hi Joe, It will be indirectly available later today if my damn isp will properly function. I’ve started a "collection" of recommended books available through brbg/ez in association with amazon. Here’s the link to main page: http://users.boone.net/wgw/brbg-3.html Here’s the link to where this title will be located (if I can make a successful upload): http://users.boone.net/wgw/brbg-gen-ff.html Walt

Response:

Question:

My friends, lend me your eyes. But it WILL require EVERYONE to cooperate, or the effort is doomed to fail.

Definitely worth a try. George and Co. have never got under my skin (mind you I do see how they can), but I suspect a little tolerance and a big dose of common sense could see us get through. Like the trout we talk often about, we need to be more selective in the lures or baits that we take – and ignore the baits some Cheers JK

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(snipped)

Dave, Add a clause that I am to have all of my deposit retuned in FULL! If you would please. I would like this corrected before moving on. HT

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______  Not fair Mark.  Very undeserving, especially from someone that should be a fair minded attorney? sigh* MR. G. — http://www.gink.com/chat

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We’ll simply leave the past in the past – where it belongs – while implicitly forgiving the transgressions that may have taken place in that time. No apologies required by anyone; everyone saves face by default.

This would work if folks had learned anything from what happened in the past, but I don’t think that’s true in all cases. Forgetting the past is a dangerous thing, especially in this case which is in its’ umpteenth cycle in the little passion play called roff. My advice is to ignore the trolls but continue to be wary of the troller (the poetry could start again, you know<g). — Charlie…

Response:

What I’m proposing is the group allows George a fresh start – and that in turn, George not abuse that act of faith and trust.

Sounds good to me. Will it work? Unlikely, but let’s give it a shot. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Well said, Peter.  This is not a matter of anti-George or pro-George.  The guy has a screw loose, and as much as I enjoy picking on him occasionally it is not good for either of us.  Time to treat him like the meower. Mark Faulkner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [genuine, noble effort snipped] Sincerely – and with great hope, /dave tatosian (aka daytripper) Trip, I’ve met a few men like George in my life and in all the time I knew them, they never changed for the better.  After all, why change when you’re perfect.  :)  Anyway, for any peace to accrue in these parts, we simply have to give George’s spamming and trolling the same consideration as we’ve given the meower.  The most important thing in George’s life is to be the constant centre of everyone’s attention. Forty and fifty post threads with the subject "Mr. G." are his lifeblood.  George cannot post without taunting and boasting about his stuff anymore than I’d qualify for the clergy.  Given that, it’s up to the rest of us to take the pledge: I do solemnly swear to not respond to any of George’s spamming, trolling, baiting and taunting, no matter how serious the provocation, so help me ROFF. No doubt that as is the pledge becomes effective, the George spam-o-meter will go off the dial as he responds in the attempt to reassert himself as the centre of the universe, but within a reasonably short space of time if we stick to the pledge, peace will reign supreme on the G front. Peter

Response:

Dave, As one who just watched the thread, I hereby make a pledge and vow not to fall for his trolls in the future, no matter how strongly provoked. Gandhi once said, The weak can never forgive.  Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.

Happy New Year David.  I forgive you. ; ) Mr. G. — http://www.gink.com/chat

Response:

<good suggestions snipped Dave, As one who just watched the thread, I hereby make a pledge and vow not to fall for his trolls in the future, no matter how strongly provoked. Gandhi once said, The weak can never forgive.  Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong. Best Regards, Dave Blackett aka bc. — Angling may be said to be so like the mathematics that it can never be fully learnt — Izaak Walton

Response:

Wayne,    Of course you are correct about this.  He changed his sign from Mr. G to Mr Gink just for this purpose.  He seems to be a firm believer in "there is no such thing as bad publicity".  I for one do not welcome George back to ROFF because I am  a believer in the saying "a leopard can’t change it’s spots".  It won’t be long until he reverts back to the old George that he wants everyone to forget.  I am placing him back on my filter and I hope the members of ROFF don’t repeat too many of his posts in their posts. Happy New Year Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dave, in watching the current Nymphing ROFF thread a couple of things come to mind regarding your suggestions.  The very people attacking George most adamantly are performing for him a great service.  A primary tenent of marketing strategy is repeating your product name before the public.  Even though some people try to make it a negative conotation their comments still serve the strategy.  On the other hand, some of George’s posts seem to suggest he intentionally invites controversy (ie. twitch, twitch).  Given the possibility of an element of intentional provocation and the natural tendency in ROFF for detailed personal defense, I have doubts even the best devised guidelines will serve your intended purpose.  In any case, I’m afraid the horse has bolted the gate and is already on the course. Wayne

Response:

[genuine, noble effort snipped] Sincerely – and with great hope, /dave tatosian (aka daytripper)

Trip, I’ve met a few men like George in my life and in all the time I knew them, they never changed for the better.  After all, why change when you’re perfect.  :)  Anyway, for any peace to accrue in these parts, we simply have to give George’s spamming and trolling the same consideration as we’ve given the meower.  The most important thing in George’s life is to be the constant centre of everyone’s attention. Forty and fifty post threads with the subject "Mr. G." are his lifeblood.  George cannot post without taunting and boasting about his stuff anymore than I’d qualify for the clergy.  Given that, it’s up to the rest of us to take the pledge: I do solemnly swear to not respond to any of George’s spamming, trolling, baiting and taunting, no matter how serious the provocation, so help me ROFF. No doubt that as is the pledge becomes effective, the George spam-o-meter will go off the dial as he responds in the attempt to reassert himself as the centre of the universe, but within a reasonably short space of time if we stick to the pledge, peace will reign supreme on the G front. Peter

Response:

holy shit tripper…whatever it is that induced this, can ya send me a shipment? i’ve a bunch of clients that need a dose (toke?) immediately! seriously though – nice thought and hope it works.   jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My friends, lend me your eyes. This constant warring between the pro- and anti- George factions is taking a toll on my karma. And I don’t like it. And I don’t see a need for it to continue. There CAN be peace on roff in my time, if everyone could simply make an investment in faith and trust. But it WILL require EVERYONE to cooperate, or the effort is doomed to fail. As one participant in this group who was the target of a series of slanderous attacks last fall from the same person that I had previously defended in this place, I think I have the right to make the following proposal. I’m willing to forgive and forget, without anyone having to apologize to me, and move on with life. I’d appreciate it if you all would read this, and consider it. At this point you should all know that I certainly don’t have any stake in this, outside of the desire to establish the peace and maintain some sense of decorum. I am hereby proposing that a deal be struck between George and those who so far just can’t seem to forgive mistakes made in the past. If faithfully followed, the group will regain a gregarious fellow with a long and interesting flyfishing background and experience. In return the group won’t be forced to endure further onslaughts of unsolicited advertisements and suspect product endorsements. Here’s the deal. It’s damned simple: Part 1. The parties of the first part – George Gehrke, his employees, his partners, resellers, and anyone else with a financial interest in George’s business interests – will refrain from unsolicited merchandizing of his various products in this forum, just like the conduct expected of any other commercial interest. Part 2. All other parties will refrain from continuing their relentless attacks on George for any perceived transgression(s) presumed to have been perpetrated by George in the past. Further, if said parties have nothing meaningful to contribute to any ongoing topic or thread in this conference where George is a contributor, they should post nothing at all. What I’m proposing is the group allows George a fresh start – and that in turn, George not abuse that act of faith and trust. Reasonable people may disagree with what constitutes "suitable context" – but if someone comes looking for stuff that makes things sink or float – or are shopping for cane rods or blanks – I would consider those instances to be proper context where George could suggest that he has a solution worth considering. This doesn’t give George a green light to insult the intelligence or sensibilities of the group with over-the-top advertisements. Nor should a follow-up post by George suggesting that he has a product that will solve a problem constitute a red flag waving at those who currently have a penchant to attack each and every post that George makes. I believe that this would be a worthwhile project for this group – and George – to take on, with the advent of the new year. I offer it as a way for everyone to make a peace – and hopefully a long lasting one – without anyone having to apologize, confess, or otherwise atone for past mistakes of judgement or passion. We’ll simply leave the past in the past – where it belongs – while implicitly forgiving the transgressions that may have taken place in that time. No apologies required by anyone; everyone saves face by default. Could this work? Yes, if the group is committed to peace. Please consider it. Sincerely – and with great hope, /dave tatosian (aka daytripper)

Response:

(Well thought and balanced guidelines snipped) Dave, in watching the current Nymphing ROFF thread a couple of things come to mind regarding your suggestions.  The very people attacking George most adamantly are performing for him a great service.  A primary tenent of marketing strategy is repeating your product name before the public.  Even though some people try to make it a negative conotation their comments still serve the strategy.  On the other hand, some of George’s posts seem to suggest he intentionally invites controversy (ie. twitch, twitch).  Given the possibility of an element of intentional provocation and the natural tendency in ROFF for detailed personal defense, I have doubts even the best devised guidelines will serve your intended purpose.  In any case, I’m afraid the horse has bolted the gate and is already on the course. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

Amen and amen. However, I think it should only pertain to posts from George and his employees.  George might have influence but not control over others that have a financial interest in his products.  It is true that George could influenced other people that have a "financial interest" in his products to make an advertizing post.  However, it is also possible that the other person is acting independently.  If we then baroque Mr. G, we are in the wrong.  Maybe my suggestion is more long-suffering than yours, but I think it’s truly the most fair one.  Let’s give Mr. G. the benefit of the doubt when we can. Mr. G. will either hang or prove himself.  We just need to give him enough rope to tie a noose or pull himself ashore. Vern – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Part 1. The parties of the first part – George Gehrke, his employees, his partners, resellers, and anyone else with a financial interest in George’s business interests – will refrain from unsolicited merchandizing of his various products in this forum, just like the conduct expected of any other commercial interest. Part 2. All other parties will refrain from continuing their relentless attacks on George for any perceived transgression(s) presumed to have been perpetrated by George in the past. Further, if said parties have nothing meaningful to contribute to any ongoing topic or thread in this conference where George is a contributor, they should post nothing at all.

Response:

daytripper, thanks for expressing my feelings . BUT: Imho it’s a bit short-sighted to build a wall solely against George and partners/customers. What would be more appropriate is a guideline for spam and misconduct in general. We’ve all been assoles here, and most have been forgiven, others left. I don’t believe George is the personalized evil. No one is. If someone is out of line, he or she can be addressed to that. Plain and simple. Herman

In the Big Picture(tm) you’re correct, Herman. But there are already Usenet guidelines that address the broader constructs for discussion groups under the Big 8 hierarchy. Clearly these guidelines have been ignored for some time in this case… This is not legislation that I’ve proposed, it’s a "serving suggestion" that addresses a specific concern in as gentle a fashion as possible while still providing some substance to chew on. Take it or leave it on its own merits. And thanks for your support. /daytripper

Response:

Why not.  It cant do any harm to try.  While admitting to some reservations about the wisdom of "forgiving and forgetting" in some circumstances, and also about the necessity for having separate regulatory agreements, which are basically unenforceable in any case, apart from the intrinsic regulatory factors which govern the groups individual behaviour in any case, such as the good sense, good manners, good taste, and propriety of the individuals concerned,  if peace is the only objective, then perhaps the end justifies the means in this case.  I will refrain from any posts at all concerning the material mentioned, until such time as the tacit agreement you suggest, ( or actual, should it be agreed to by all parties , which I doubt ), is broken, or flagrantly misused.

LOL! Ok, Mike, I appreciate your cooperation, if not enthusiastic support. "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible"

That’s ^^^^ profoundly appropriate. /daytripper (saving my dogma from being run over by my karma)

Response:

daytripper, thanks for expressing my feelings . BUT: Imho it’s a bit short-sighted to build a wall solely against George and partners/customers. What would be more appropriate is a guideline for spam and misconduct in general. We’ve all been assoles here, and most have been forgiven, others left. I don’t believe George is the personalized evil. No one is. If someone is out of line, he or she can be addressed to that. Plain and simple. Herman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My friends, lend me your eyes. This constant warring between the pro- and anti- George factions is taking a toll on my karma. And I don’t like it. And I don’t see a need for it to continue. There CAN be peace on roff in my time, if everyone could simply make an investment in faith and trust. But it WILL require EVERYONE to cooperate, or the effort is doomed to fail. As one participant in this group who was the target of a series of slanderous attacks last fall from the same person that I had previously defended in this place, I think I have the right to make the following proposal. I’m willing to forgive and forget, without anyone having to apologize to me, and move on with life. I’d appreciate it if you all would read this, and consider it. At this point you should all know that I certainly don’t have any stake in this, outside of the desire to establish the peace and maintain some sense of decorum. I am hereby proposing that a deal be struck between George and those who so far just can’t seem to forgive mistakes made in the past. If faithfully followed, the group will regain a gregarious fellow with a long and interesting flyfishing background and experience. In return the group won’t be forced to endure further onslaughts of unsolicited advertisements and suspect product endorsements. Here’s the deal. It’s damned simple: Part 1. The parties of the first part – George Gehrke, his employees, his partners, resellers, and anyone else with a financial interest in George’s business interests – will refrain from unsolicited merchandizing of his various products in this forum, just like the conduct expected of any other commercial interest. Part 2. All other parties will refrain from continuing their relentless attacks on George for any perceived transgression(s) presumed to have been perpetrated by George in the past. Further, if said parties have nothing meaningful to contribute to any ongoing topic or thread in this conference where George is a contributor, they should post nothing at all. What I’m proposing is the group allows George a fresh start – and that in turn, George not abuse that act of faith and trust. Reasonable people may disagree with what constitutes "suitable context" – but if someone comes looking for stuff that makes things sink or float – or are shopping for cane rods or blanks – I would consider those instances to be proper context where George could suggest that he has a solution worth considering. This doesn’t give George a green light to insult the intelligence or sensibilities of the group with over-the-top advertisements. Nor should a follow-up post by George suggesting that he has a product that will solve a problem constitute a red flag waving at those who currently have a penchant to attack each and every post that George makes. I believe that this would be a worthwhile project for this group – and George – to take on, with the advent of the new year. I offer it as a way for everyone to make a peace – and hopefully a long lasting one – without anyone having to apologize, confess, or otherwise atone for past mistakes of judgement or passion. We’ll simply leave the past in the past – where it belongs – while implicitly forgiving the transgressions that may have taken place in that time. No apologies required by anyone; everyone saves face by default. Could this work? Yes, if the group is committed to peace. Please consider it. Sincerely – and with great hope, /dave tatosian (aka daytripper)

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Why not.  It cant do any harm to try.  While admitting to some reservations about the wisdom of "forgiving and forgetting" in some circumstances, and also about the necessity for having separate regulatory agreements, which are basically unenforceable in any case, apart from the intrinsic regulatory factors which govern the groups individual behaviour in any case, such as the good sense, good manners, good taste, and propriety of the individuals concerned,  if peace is the only objective, then perhaps the end justifies the means in this case.  I will refrain from any posts at all concerning the material mentioned, until such time as the tacit agreement you suggest, ( or actual, should it be agreed to by all parties , which I doubt ), is broken, or flagrantly misused. TL MC "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

My friends, lend me your eyes.

<SNIP

Response:

My friends, lend me your eyes. This constant warring between the pro- and anti- George factions is taking a toll on my karma. And I don’t like it. And I don’t see a need for it to continue. There CAN be peace on roff in my time, if everyone could simply make an investment in faith and trust. But it WILL require EVERYONE to cooperate, or the effort is doomed to fail. As one participant in this group who was the target of a series of slanderous attacks last fall from the same person that I had previously defended in this place, I think I have the right to make the following proposal. I’m willing to forgive and forget, without anyone having to apologize to me, and move on with life. I’d appreciate it if you all would read this, and consider it. At this point you should all know that I certainly don’t have any stake in this, outside of the desire to establish the peace and maintain some sense of decorum. I am hereby proposing that a deal be struck between George and those who so far just can’t seem to forgive mistakes made in the past. If faithfully followed, the group will regain a gregarious fellow with a long and interesting flyfishing background and experience. In return the group won’t be forced to endure further onslaughts of unsolicited advertisements and suspect product endorsements. Here’s the deal. It’s damned simple: Part 1. The parties of the first part – George Gehrke, his employees, his partners, resellers, and anyone else with a financial interest in George’s business interests – will refrain from unsolicited merchandizing of his various products in this forum, just like the conduct expected of any other commercial interest. Part 2. All other parties will refrain from continuing their relentless attacks on George for any perceived transgression(s) presumed to have been perpetrated by George in the past. Further, if said parties have nothing meaningful to contribute to any ongoing topic or thread in this conference where George is a contributor, they should post nothing at all. What I’m proposing is the group allows George a fresh start – and that in turn, George not abuse that act of faith and trust. Reasonable people may disagree with what constitutes "suitable context" – but if someone comes looking for stuff that makes things sink or float – or are shopping for cane rods or blanks – I would consider those instances to be proper context where George could suggest that he has a solution worth considering. This doesn’t give George a green light to insult the intelligence or sensibilities of the group with over-the-top advertisements. Nor should a follow-up post by George suggesting that he has a product that will solve a problem constitute a red flag waving at those who currently have a penchant to attack each and every post that George makes. I believe that this would be a worthwhile project for this group – and George – to take on, with the advent of the new year. I offer it as a way for everyone to make a peace – and hopefully a long lasting one – without anyone having to apologize, confess, or otherwise atone for past mistakes of judgement or passion. We’ll simply leave the past in the past – where it belongs – while implicitly forgiving the transgressions that may have taken place in that time. No apologies required by anyone; everyone saves face by default. Could this work? Yes, if the group is committed to peace. Please consider it. Sincerely – and with great hope, /dave tatosian (aka daytripper)

Response:

Question:

I’ve been gone for a couple of weeks.  When I left, the discussion was Indians. I come back and it’s the Chinese. This is rec.outdoors.fishing. fly not racial.opinions.foolish.farcical. Willi

Response:

Hey, look on the bright side, 10 years from now the chinks and the yanks will have a great big mushroom throwing contest and Canada and Lichtenstein will be the next world powers. Kinda reassuring, don’t you think? KB – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been gone for a couple of weeks.  When I left, the discussion was Indians. I come back and it’s the Chinese. This is rec.outdoors.fishing. fly not racial.opinions.foolish.farcical. Willi

Response:

Kevin: It is absolutely outrageous of you to use such racist terms in your posting. Such language is not welcomed or wanted by the majority of the people here. I am not amused by your sarcastic comment here at all.  Trying to be funny? Try much harder. Actually,  it would be much better if you were just to shut your loud mouth. Usage of such term shows us that you are beyond the word ignorant can ever describe you as a person. I do not know you personally but from the short comment I see posted here, you are a useless piece of work. Go to hell, you asshole. jimmy chang

+AD4-Hey, look on the bright side, 10 years from now the chinks and the yanks +AD4-will have a great big mushroom throwing contest and Canada and Lichtenstein +AD4-will be the next world powers. +AD4- +AD4-Kinda reassuring, don’t you think? +AD4- +AD4-KB +AD4- +AD4APg- I’ve been gone for a couple of weeks.  When I left, the discussion was +AD4APg- Indians. I come back and it’s the Chinese. This is rec.outdoors.fishing. +AD4APg- fly not racial.opinions.foolish.farcical. +AD4APg- +AD4APg- Willi +AD4APg- goldens+AEA-frii.com +AD4- +AD4-

Response:

It is absolutely outrageous of you to use such racist terms in your posting. Such language is not welcomed or wanted by the majority of the people here. I am not amused by your sarcastic comment here at all.

I too thought Kevin’s choice of words (the "c" word) was inappropriate and ruined what may have been an otherwise humorous intent.   I don’t disagree with you, but I would also point out that few things will draw more criticism here that nominating yourself as the voice of the majority. Go to hell, you asshole.

In your own words, such language is not welcomed or wanted by the majority of the people here. Chill dude. Joe F.

Response:

Kevin: It is absolutely outrageous of you to use such racist terms in your posting. Such language is not welcomed or wanted by the majority of the people here. I am not amused by your sarcastic comment here at all.  Trying to be funny? Try much harder. Actually,  it would be much better if you were just to shut your loud mouth.

Jimmy Chang, I’ve lurked through this post from the start, and it seems to me that the one throwing around the most insults is you. Try to remove yourself from your self appointed throne, unwrap yourself from the "poor little minority flag" for a minute, take a breath and read into what some of the other posters have been telling you. You may not realize it, but most of them  are actually on your side. Nobody needs more enemies but you seem to be doing your level best to create them out of allies. Oh and if you want to throw a few racist comments my way to make yourself feel better I am 1/2 English, 1/4 Scottish, 1/8 Scandinavian and 1/8 Blackfoot Indian (native American). So "Pommy Bastard" works as does "Chug", "Mick", "Tomahawk", or "Honky". Or if you would prefer call me four eyes, that works too. Or if you want, call me another name that rhymes with my last name Cooper. when I was a kid, everyone thought pooper was pretty funny, and stooper was right up there as well. In other words stop taking yourself so fucking seriously. Usage of such term shows us that you are beyond the word ignorant can ever describe you as a person. I do not know you personally but from the short comment I see posted here, you are a useless piece of work. Go to hell, you asshole.

Truly said from the exhaulted leader  himself

Response:

[deleted] In other words stop taking yourself so fucking seriously.

[deleted] Careful Stooper or you’ll have to answer to David Jones. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Response:

[deleted] In other words stop taking yourself so fucking seriously. [deleted] Careful Stooper or you’ll have to answer to David Jones. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

  As long as he doesn’t make me dance like he used when he was with the monkeys I think I can handle it. Stevo the "sewer-mouth"

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [deleted] In other words stop taking yourself so fucking seriously. [deleted] Careful Stooper or you’ll have to answer to David Jones. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"  As long as he doesn’t make me dance like he used when he was with the monkeys I think I can handle it. Stevo the "sewer-mouth"

Now THAT is freakin’ (somewhat polite way of saying f***in’) funny. I can just hear it now.  David Jones coming to get you guys singing  "Hey, hey I’m one of the monkeys and I’m not f**king around…" Aw, what the fuck.  There I said it. Warren

Response:

Steve Cooper: Jimmy Chang, I’ve lurked through this post from the start, and it seems to me that the one throwing around the most insults is you. Try to remove yourself from your self appointed throne, unwrap yourself from the "poor little minority flag" for a minute, take a breath and read into what some of the other posters have been

telling you. I have NEVER seen myself as a "poor little minority" and for you to use such term is again insulting and ignorant. I bet that you can’t see that.  You may not realize it, but most of them  are actually on your side. Nobody needs more enemies but you seem to be doing your level best to create them out of

allies. I am not looking enemies but if I object to the things I hear, see or read, I react to it, just as you have reacted to my message.  And I would appreciate it if you do not  tell me otherwise. Oh and if you want to throw a few racist comments my way to make yourself feel better I am 1/2 English, 1/4 Scottish, 1/8 Scandinavian and 1/8 Blackfoot Indian (native American). So "Pommy Bastard" works as does "Chug", "Mick", "Tomahawk", or "Honky". Or if you would prefer call me four eyes, that works too. Or if you want, call me another name that rhymes with my last name Cooper. when I was a kid, everyone thought pooper was pretty funny, and stooper was right up there as well.

Seems to me that you really like to be verbally abused and "throwing a few racist comments your way" will certainly NOT make me feel better. I have better things to to, like, tying a big wooley bugger.  Find someone else that knows you well enough to do that for you.  There is really no need for you to describe yourself in detail:  I am really NOT interested in knowing you. I am sorry that people called you names when you were a kid and I promise you that I won’t do that to you. I only objected to Kevin Bennett’s use of the "c" word in his joke.  I might find it funny if I have known him personally.  But the use the "c" word,  as you like it or not, is inappropriate and I do not appreciate it.  There is no way I will sit quietly so that others can insult me. gone fishing

Response:

Hey Jimmy sorry about the c word.  I was playing off the comment "This is rec.outdoors.fishing.fly not racial.opinions.foolish.farcical". by making an obviously racial, opinionated, foolish and farcical joke.  It was way funnier when I had six pints of Caplilano Ale in me. I’m not all that bad a guy, and I’m not racist. I hate ‘em all equally <joke Back to fly fishing…… KB

Response:

Question:

Hi Shaun, here’s a trick I learned that works for me….take the male ferrule of each section and lay it along side your nose while twisting it and rubbing it back and forth a few times.  The natural oil in your skin will lube the ferrules sufficiently.  Also, if you have problems taking it apart after setting the sections really tight, put the rod behind your legs with a firm grip on the section to be pulled apart, then spread your knees apart, thereby letting your leg muscles do the work.  I keep a non-skid piece of rubber matting in my vest to help get a grip on the rod when it wants to be stubborn.  I have the same rod as you and all this works for me. Regards,

Guys: I’ve got the same rod, same problems, same solution.  Good advice.  One little detail:  When you use your legs to separate the rod, place your hands, and grip the rod on the OUTSIDE of your knees.  I know this seems really obvious, but I actually saw someone attempt it the other way. Oh, and one other piece of advice: If you live in blackfly country, and you use Deet products, make sure you don’t rub deet from your nose crease  onto the rod.  I’m guessing you’d end up with a one-piece rod. brent

Response:

I have a St. Croix 8.5′ 5wt 4pc travel rod and I’m having some trouble taking the sections apart.  Is there a standard method for lubricating the joints of rods? Also, I find the action of this rod superb if I jam the sections in pretty hard (hence the problem!), but pretty sluggish if not.  Am I doing anything wrong?  Should I go to a 6wt line? Appreciate any help. Shaun

  Rub the male end with parafin. Many rods load well with a line size higher than spec. It’s a matter of choice. I’d give it a try if you’re not satisfied with the action with a #5 line. Raalph H

Response:

If you want to try 6wt line you might check out hookhack.com . Under specials this month they list a Climax double taper line that is 5wt on one end and 6wt on the other.                                                                   Doug Campbell – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many rods load well with a line size higher than spec. It’s a matter of choice. I’d give it a try if you’re not satisfied with the action with a #5 line. Raalph H

Response:

I assume you are talking about graphite rods.   A friend uses a little bow string wax which make the rod easier to take apart but also prevents wear from putting the rods together and taking them apart so often

Response:

Hi, A friend uses a little bow string wax which make the rod easier to take apart but also prevents wear from putting the rods together and taking them apart so often

PMFJI, but I learned a trick while fishing in MT a few years back. Just lay the male part of the rod against your cheek next to your nose and below your eye.  Now twist the rod to wipe the oil from your skin onto the rod.  That has always worked for me. Best, Bill

Response:

My spouse, Rachel (a/k/a "she who must be obeyed"), asked me what i was doing…told her i had logged on a newsgroup of flyfishermen and was reading discussions about "jungle cock capes", "joint lubrication", and "nymphs"…i’m sure you know what she said next… jeff (now with cyber nanny filter in full operation)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Shaun, here’s a trick I learned that works for me….take the male ferrule of each section and lay it along side your nose while twisting it and rubbing it back and forth a few times.  The natural oil in your skin will lube the ferrules sufficiently.  Also, if you have problems taking it apart after setting the sections really tight, put the rod behind your legs with a firm grip on the section to be pulled apart, then spread your knees apart, thereby letting your leg muscles do the work.  I keep a non-skid piece of rubber matting in my vest to help get a grip on the rod when it wants to be stubborn.  I have the same rod as you and all this works for me. Regards, Guys: I’ve got the same rod, same problems, same solution.  Good advice.  One little detail:  When you use your legs to separate the rod, place your hands, and grip the rod on the OUTSIDE of your knees.  I know this seems really obvious, but I actually saw someone attempt it the other way. Oh, and one other piece of advice: If you live in blackfly country, and you use Deet products, make sure you don’t rub deet from your nose crease  onto the rod.  I’m guessing you’d end up with a one-piece rod. brent

Hi Guys, I took Mike Maxwell Speycasting course and the 3pc or 4 pc rods are hard to take apart. What Mr. Maxwell recommends is white candle wax on the male end and line the ferrule a 1/4 turn offset, then twist it in alignment. This eliminates taping your ferrules with electrical tape. After fishing all day the rod get worked pretty hard, the ferrule does not come apart very easy, so he recommends cooling your rod under tap water or in the river and untwist the opposite way you turn to put it on. Believe me it works, after a friend just about put his shoulder out pulling it apart and nearly tearing the guides off, I told him to put under the garden hose and it came apart with no problem. Note: Make sure the female end is clean, with no grit or sand or it will dig into the male end and destroy you rod.

Response:

Don’t use nose oil, it is acidic and will corrode the metal ferrules.  Other products such as candle wax or silicone grease will not destroy the metal, and are often recommended by the manufacture.  A collector I used to know, said he could tell the rods that had been nose oiled and showed the resultant corroded metal ferrules.

Response:

I have a St. Croix 8.5′ 5wt 4pc travel rod and I’m having some trouble taking the sections apart.  Is there a standard method for lubricating the joints of rods? Also, I find the action of this rod superb if I jam the sections in pretty hard (hence the problem!), but pretty sluggish if not.  Am I doing anything wrong?  Should I go to a 6wt line? Appreciate any help. Shaun

What you need is a bottle of Gehrke’s Slink, the best damn joint lubricator money can buy. Once you’ve tried this you’ll never use parafin again. It’s a little more expensive at $5 a bottle, but it will make your rod feel like a brand new top-of-the-line Sage. — something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

well might as well put my two cents in. Rub the male ends on your nose or forhead, seriously the little bit of oil from your skin is just enough to do the trick. And pull the sections apart by placing them behind your knees and hold them tight and spread your legs slightly and they should pull apart without twisting them off.An older gentleman showed me this trick on a bamboo rod i have that i’m afraid of breaking and they wrere on there good jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If this a graphite rod, then rub a candle on the male end of the ferrule to give a thin coat of wax once every 3 months or so, and the joint will be good shape. I have a St. Croix 8.5′ 5wt 4pc travel rod and I’m having some trouble taking the sections apart.  Is there a standard method for lubricating the joints of rods? Also, I find the action of this rod superb if I jam the sections in pretty hard (hence the problem!), but pretty sluggish if not.  Am I doing anything wrong?  Should I go to a 6wt line? Appreciate any help. Shaun

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – well might as well put my two cents in. Rub the male ends on your nose or forhead, seriously the little bit of oil from your skin is just enough to do the trick. And pull the sections apart by placing them behind your knees and hold them tight and spread your legs slightly and they should pull apart without twisting them off.An older gentleman showed me this trick on a bamboo rod i have that i’m afraid of breaking and they wrere on there good jim If this a graphite rod, then rub a candle on the male end of the ferrule to give a thin coat of wax once every 3 months or so, and the joint will be good shape. I have a St. Croix 8.5′ 5wt 4pc travel rod and I’m having some trouble taking the sections apart.  Is there a standard method for lubricating the joints of rods? Also, I find the action of this rod superb if I jam the sections in pretty hard (hence the problem!), but pretty sluggish if not.  Am I doing anything wrong?  Should I go to a 6wt line? Appreciate any help. Shaun

_______  Everyone has failed "Ferrules 201"  (Lubrication Course) The Metallics of Nickel Silver dictates that the metal itself is its own best lubricant and smoothness of inserting (this sounds sexy) is determined by polish and/or the micro finish that is put on with a finish of 1500 Grit. What everyone needs to do is keep their male and female parts of their ferrules clean.  Grit and grime are your worst enemy excepting of course, yourselves for not keeping your male and female parts clean. Keep all lubricants off of your ferrules altogether.  It is dirt that wears ferrules out and it is dirt that makes them stick together and difficult to take apart.  If this occurs, use a cotton swab and a little ivory (a very mild, neural PHfactor soap to lean out your female ferrules) soap.  This product does not affect any of the varnish, epoxy, or thread finishes.  The female ferrule has a plug inside, so no solutions will get into the end of your fly rod inside and swell or rot bamboo woods over time.  The same holds true with graphite fly rod ferrules in that graphite is its own best lubricant. You don’t want to try and help fly rods to come apart.  It they fly apart while fly fishing, you may  have very dirty ferrules and you are not getting an airtight fit.  Or!  Your ferrules may be worn out and need replacing. This is the end of ‘rod joint lubrication 201.’ Any questions? — Mr. G.

Question:

Let’s go fishin soon, It’s been wonderfully nice here in Illinoise. Maybe we could meet up somewhere and just cast at whatever will take a fly. Up here toward rockford, there are quite a few dams with warm run off, we could maybe try to get some smallies. Let me know what you think. Tim Apple " Always one step closer to going Postal! "

Response:

Let’s go fishin soon, It’s been wonderfully nice here in Illinoise. Maybe we could meet up somewhere and just cast at whatever will take a fly. Up here toward rockford, there are quite a few dams with warm run off, we could maybe try to get some smallies. Let me know what you think.

Tim: After all these years, my own thread. I can do smallies by my house in Geneva in the Fox River if that’s what you want to do. Joel and I tried to track you down a few weeks ago. We’re thinking a mini trip to the Madison area either weekend of March 13th or March 27th. Early season opens March 1 for troutlets. You know, I never bought an Illinois fishing license. Email me with what you think you want to do. Wayne Knight Geneva IL                            

Response:

Let’s go fishin soon, It’s been wonderfully nice here in Illinoise.

        if you think it’s been nice in illinoise, you ought to get a taste of north caroliner. no malice, timmy. wayno

Response:

Wayne, You can get your Illinois license instantly on the Internet.  Go the the DNR site and links will take you to the license site (run by a contractor). I’ve done this the last two years.  I wish more states would put licenses online, it seems a simple thing to do. Also you might try the DuPage between the dam in Warrenville and the one in Naperville.  There are some really nice smallmouths in that stretch. — — Sherman Dunnam www.flyfishingjournal.com Stream Reports, Free Classifieds & More – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let’s go fishin soon, It’s been wonderfully nice here in Illinoise. Maybe we could meet up somewhere and just cast at whatever will take a fly. Up here toward rockford, there are quite a few dams with warm run off, we could maybe try to get some smallies. Let me know what you think. Tim: After all these years, my own thread. I can do smallies by my house in Geneva in the Fox River if that’s what you want to do. Joel and I tried to track you down a few weeks ago. We’re thinking a mini trip to the Madison area either weekend of March 13th or March 27th. Early season opens March 1 for troutlets. You know, I never bought an Illinois fishing license. Email me with what you think you want to do. Wayne Knight Geneva IL

Response:

writes: Also you might try the DuPage between the dam in Warrenville and the one in Naperville.  There are some really nice smallmouths in that stretch.

Thanks, I think I know where that’s at. Wayne Knight Geneva IL                            

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    Well, don’t forget Bryce that this fellow described himself as a newbie, and I got the sense that he was tooling around his local waters out East somewhere. Thus, I figured that he was not talking about tangling with 10 lb+ bass and pike regularly, and I guess it seemed to me that a lighter rod would be easy to handle for the guy and thus more enjoyable at this stage. He did not describe his gear all that well, and I thought I’d try to steer him to something that would not require too bad an outlay of funds but which would still be suited enough so that he could get a taste of how much fun it can be with (roughly) appropriately sized gear.     Of course once we suck him more fully into the sport *that’s* when we start revealing that what he *really* needs is 4 or 5  rods. Let’s see, a light 5 wt. for small bass and a stiff 6 wt. for the heavier (and, of course, the 7 or 8 wt. for when he gets for Florida for those potbellied ones), then an 8 wt for standard pike complimented by a 9 wt. for when he gets up to No. Canada for the real torpedos, and maybe then even a 10 wt. in case he ever gets to one of those vague lakes one hears about in Scotland or the deep Yugoslav mountains where the pike look like crocodiles and….    At any rate, my advice was kinda geared to my mental picture of the poster as a "typical" new guy, who just wants some simple but non-intimidating steers, and thus I tried to keep the talk about rods, leaders, tippits, wire tippits, etc. as "clean" as possible without making him shake his head over a lengthy exegesis on the relative merits of a stiff 7 wt. as opposed to a softer 8 wt., or picking lines by reference to how many grams of its weight are in its forward 10% of length. TB

I have to say it is a bit technical. I do get into tiny technicalities often. Thinking that he is a newbie, your response was better. I do think that a 9wt is a bit better but it is just your preference. Bryce

Response:

Gee Bryce, sounds like you’re worried one of those fish might escape the freezer:^). Was that intended for a little sarcasm or are you trying to say my harvesting is wrong? I can deal with both. BryceC

Don’t see the need for such heavy artillery for bass and an occaisional (read not monster) pike. Just sayin’ with the rod and terminal tackle  you describe and a serious hook set, most of those bass will be comin’ one hop into the cooler.

Response:

Gee Bryce, sounds like you’re worried one of those fish might escape the freezer:^).

Was that intended for a little sarcasm or are you trying to say my harvesting is wrong? I can deal with both. BryceC

Response:

 Thus, if you wanted a rig you could reasonably use for both bass and pike I think a moderate to stiff action, 9 foot long 7 weight rod could serve you very well. Rig with bass or "pike" taper line size 7 of course.

With that combo plus a sinking leader such as the type made by Airflow you should be able to cover most pike and large mouth situations.  For smallies if your fishing a large lake you may need a full sinking line  or long sinking tip if you are fishing over 15′ deep. John Hughes Norflok, VA

Response:

 Thus, if you wanted a rig you could reasonably use for both bass and pike I think a moderate to stiff action, 9 foot long 7 weight rod could serve you very well. Rig with bass or "pike" taper line size 7 of course.

I disagree. For bass and pike, I would use an 8 or 9 wt 9′ fast action rod. I agree on the line, get a bass taper. The difference between a bass line and a trout line is the length of the belly. A WF bass line may have a belly of only 25 feet while WF trout may be 40′ you can use tapered leaders. For pike,use an 7′ leader that ends in 12 or 14 lbs test with a 1′ piece of 40 lb hard mono as a bite gaurd. instead of the hard mono, you can use looped bite gaurds. Orvis has some good ones. For bass, omit the bite gaurd. A good reel is necessary. Have 200 yards of 30lb backing. You need disk drag. A good selection of flies include dahlburg divers, poppers, large fur streamers like zonkers, poppers, standard baitfish imitating streamers, and poppers. That will get you started. hope it helps. BryceC

Response:

 Thus, if you wanted a rig you could reasonably use for both bass and pike I think a moderate to stiff action, 9 foot long 7 weight rod could serve you very well. Rig with bass or "pike" taper line size 7 of course. I disagree. For bass and pike, I would use an 8 or 9 wt 9′ fast action rod

.<snip.  A good reel is necessary. Have 200 yards of 30lb backing. You need disk drag .<snip BryceC

Gee Bryce, sounds like you’re worried one of those fish might escape the freezer:^).

Response:

In response to a fellow describing himself as a "newbie" asking about  Thus, if you wanted a rig you could reasonably use for both bass and pike I think a moderate to stiff action, 9 foot long 7 weight rod could serve you very well. Rig with bass or "pike" taper line size 7 of course….

I disagree. For bass and pike, I would use an 8 or 9 wt 9′ fast action rod…. (SNIP)

        Well, don’t forget Bryce that this fellow described himself as a newbie, and I got the sense that he was tooling around his local waters out East somewhere. Thus, I figured that he was not talking about tangling with 10 lb+ bass and pike regularly, and I guess it seemed to me that a lighter rod would be easy to handle for the guy and thus more enjoyable at this stage. He did not describe his gear all that well, and I thought I’d try to steer him to something that would not require too bad an outlay of funds but which would still be suited enough so that he could get a taste of how much fun it can be with (roughly) appropriately sized gear.          Of course once we suck him more fully into the sport *that’s* when we start revealing that what he *really* needs is 4 or 5  rods. Let’s see, a light 5 wt. for small bass and a stiff 6 wt. for the heavier (and, of course, the 7 or 8 wt. for when he gets for Florida for those potbellied ones), then an 8 wt for standard pike complimented by a 9 wt. for when he gets up to No. Canada for the real torpedos, and maybe then even a 10 wt. in case he ever gets to one of those vague lakes one hears about in Scotland or the deep Yugoslav mountains where the pike look like crocodiles and….         At any rate, my advice was kinda geared to my mental picture of the poster as a "typical" new guy, who just wants some simple but non-intimidating steers, and thus I tried to keep the talk about rods, leaders, tippits, wire tippits, etc. as "clean" as possible without making him shake his head over a lengthy exegesis on the relative merits of a stiff 7 wt. as opposed to a softer 8 wt., or picking lines by reference to how many grams of its weight are in its forward 10% of length. TB

Response:

I think I have the knots straight, but on the weekend a guy said I need a shooting line. What is that? I also need some fly advice. I will be buying a fly tieing book but so far I’ve had no luck in finding one with bass flies. I love bass. I’ve only ever caught one on my fly rod using a little white popper (styraphome with square front and feather out the back). I want to catch more. What length & weight of tippet (the mono that ties to my fly) do I need? I would be greatfull for any suggestions, tips or whatever. Anything to get me another bass on my line. I’ve also tried for pike with no luck. Used streamers (I think that’s what they are called). They are long with lots of hair and a big hook and stay on the surface. What a bugger to cast. Is this fly the right one to be using?

Response:

John:         I don’t think you need a "shooting" line, not as that term has traditionally been used at least (also called a "shooting head") with all the modern regular fly lines out there today.         A "shooting" line/head traditionally was a very heavy short piece of flyline that attached to mono on a flyrod and, it’s my understanding, was (and perhaps still is) used for stuff like surfcasting to really get your lure out there. Never very heavily used as I understood it, and very much a specialty thing. Might still be used by some in some instances, but for bass and pike there are many many lines now on the market that will get you all the distance you need with the heavy bugs and stuff you need to throw for these. Check out Cortland’s lines for instance, they have "Bass Taper" lines, and even a "Pike and Muskie" line.         Used to be that fly lines basically came in three basic configurations: Level, tapered, and weight-forward. Level lines of course were a holdover from the old days when technology simply did not allow making a good quality taper on a line. I suppose they are not all that bad. A tapered line has, of course, a taper so that the line gets thinner and lighter at the end where the leader attaches. It allows a more delicate presentation of your fly. A weight-forward taper is reversed, it gets heavier towards the end so as to allow you to more easily throw heavier flies because, of course, what you are *really* throwing in fly casting is not the fly but only the loop formed by your cast, and so the heavier fly you throw the more this interferes with throwing that loop and the heavier the loop is the better, right? A "bass" or "pike" taper is just an exaggerated form of a weight-forward line. For pike I think most folks would say an 8 or 9 weight rod and line is just fine, and will handle almost any pike you can imagine. A 7 weight rig is a tad light for pike if you are really tying into big ones, but it can be done. For bass, I sense that a 7 weight rod/line is pretty prevalent, though lots of guys who know they ain’t going to catch any 10 pounders go with 6 or 5 weight setups to have a bit more fun with smaller, more prevalent fish.         Thus, if you wanted a rig you could reasonably use for both bass and pike I think a moderate to stiff action, 9 foot long 7 weight rod could serve you very well. Rig with bass or "pike" taper line size 7 of course.         As to leaders, you don’t need much length for either fish. For the most part a leader exists so as to separate the potentially scary fly line from your lure so as to not spook your quarry, right? Bass and pike are not very spooky, and that’s good because it’s also easier to throw the kind of lures they like with short leaders. Many pre-made 6 foot tapered knotless leaders are made specifically for bass. They work nice without knots because they don’t collect weeds in the knots. As to the size to get

Question:

Hi I am looking for a few pages of diagrams showing basic knot patterns for tying thick line to leader, leader to fly, etc. Anyone have any ideas? Leon

Response:

Hi I am looking for a few pages of diagrams showing basic knot patterns for tying thick line to leader, leader to fly, etc. Anyone have any ideas? Leon

Leon: Try this site: http://www.tika.on.ca/multi.html?where=Yahoo&what=BERKLEY%20TRILENE It’s Berkeley’s "Tips, Tricks and Techniques" and shows some of the better knots with diagrams. DAMN ALL SPAM!! To send me an e-mail, remove NOSPAM in my address.

Response:

Hi I am looking for a few pages of diagrams showing basic knot patterns for tying thick line to leader, leader to fly, etc. Anyone have any ideas? Leon

there was a web page with several knots and tech info on each.  do a search , especially for the orvis knot.  i remember that one for sure on that page.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi I am looking for a few pages of diagrams showing basic knot patterns for tying thick line to leader, leader to fly, etc. Anyone have any ideas? Leon Leon: Try this site: http://www.tika.on.ca/multi.html?where=Yahoo&what=BERKLEY%20TRILENE It’s Berkeley’s "Tips, Tricks and Techniques" and shows some of the better knots with diagrams. DAMN ALL SPAM!! To send me an e-mail, remove NOSPAM in my address.

Whoops, sorry, I gave you the wrong URL.  It should have been:         http://www.fishingworld.com/Berkley/Tips-n-Tricks/ and includes some info on knots, rigs, and spooling reels. DAMN ALL SPAM!! To send me an e-mail, remove NOSPAM in my address.

Response:

Hi I am looking for a few pages of diagrams showing basic knot patterns for tying thick line to leader, leader to fly, etc. Anyone have any ideas? Leon

G’day Leon, You’ll find a description and diagram for fishing knots at the following URL at Fishinternet Australia, http://www.fishnet.com.au/fishylinks.html Just go to the FISHING INFORMATION section. Also Geoff Wilson outlines a knot each month in his web page at, http://www.fishnet.com.au/GW.html Regards, David —  Webmaster Fishinternet Australia           http://www.fishnet.com.au  Phone: 0417 343 242                  GET Netted Australia Web Design

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Question:

I am considering the purchase of Gortex waders (simms guide model) and I was wondering what people’s experience has been regarding the durability of these waders as compared with neoprene.  I have heard that they are very subject to developing leaks,  I am very tough on equipment and would crawl over glass and through barb wire to get to fish.  I am most interested in what your actual experince has been with these products and not what somebody said. Thanks for input, T. Frank

Response:

I am considering the purchase of Gortex waders (simms guide model) and I was wondering what people’s experience has been regarding the durability of these waders as compared with neoprene.  I have heard that they are very subject to developing leaks,  I am very tough on equipment and would crawl over glass and through barb wire to get to fish.  I am most interested in what your actual experince has been with these products and not what somebody said. Thanks for input, T. Frank

Although I don’t have any, the reason I don’t is my friends who do all had leaks. Some soon, some later, but all have had leaks so far. One friend has returned his waders 3 times, but they were an earlier model of a popular but unmentioned muanufacturer. (their service in exchanging them has been quite good.) The Simms guide model looks and fits great in extended sizes, but I have resisted the temptation so far. Don’t know anyone who has them yet. For now I’m sticking to nylon or supplex and neoprene. Kevin Williams

Response:

I am considering the purchase of Gortex waders (simms guide model) and I was wondering what people’s experience has been regarding the durability of these waders as compared with neoprene. I have heard that they are very subject to developing leaks,  I am very tough on equipment and would crawl over glass and through barb wire to get to fish.  I am most interested in what your actual experince has been with these products and not what somebody said.

I’ve got a pair of Simms Gortex with about 150 hours on them with no problems but I’m real easy on equipment.  OTOH, I developed a leak in a pair neoprenes in the first 10 hours of use. John Johnson Atlanta, GA

Response:

I have been using the Simms Gor-Tex for about 1 year. They are the most comfortable wader I’ve worn. If you walk thru briars, barbed wire, etc. you are going to get leaks. Mine have been of the pinhole variety and are easily patched on the inside. I think they are not as durable as neoprene but the are certainly a lot more comfortable. GL. Jack.

Response:

I am considering the purchase of Gortex waders (simms guide model) and I was wondering what people’s experience has been regarding the durability of these waders as compared with neoprene. I have heard that they are very subject to developing leaks,  I am very tough on equipment and would crawl over glass and through barb wire to get to fish.  I am most interested in what your actual experince has been with these products and not what somebody said. Thanks for input, T. Frank

Hi I’m on my second season guiding with a pair of Simms Gortex.  They are the best investment I’ve ever made in the direction of my personal comfort.  Even in 100 degree heat I’m as comfortable as if I were wearing a pair of jeans. Regarding leaks:  The fine Goretex lining is subject pin hole leeks caused by nettles, thistles, etc.  The type of pointy objects that that will slip between the fibers on the outside protecting fabric and puncture the inner membrane.  The outside fabric is really quite tough so glass and barbed wire are less of a problem than the real fine pointed things I just mentioned. When I got my waders I bought a repair kit.  It’s real easy to use even on the stream if need be but the pin hole leeks are not like a leek in a regular wader.  They just kind of seep.  When I notice a wet spot on my jeans when I remove the waders at the end of the day I wait until I get home to fix them.  At home I reverse the waders and fill the reversed leg with water from a hose and mark the leek with a felt tip pen, empty the waders and hang them up to dry.  About an hour later I put on the goop and 20 minutes after that the patch and the waders are ready to go.  I consider this a very small price to pay for the incredible comfort I get as a result.  No more sweat soaked poly long handles for me, thank you. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

Response:

Question:

I am going to Cozumel, Mexico at the end of January and would like to find a guide or advice on where to fish there. I do not scuba dive. I would like to wade fish for bonefish if there are fishable flats. Anyone know a relable guide? Do I need a license in advance? Any other advice would be great… Thanks, Bill Schrader Baylor College of Medicine, Houston TX

Response:

| I am going to Cozumel, Mexico at the end of January and would like to find | a guide or advice on where to fish there. I do not scuba dive. | | I would like to wade fish for bonefish if there are fishable flats. | | Anyone know a relable guide? | | Do I need a license in advance? | | Any other advice would be great… | | Thanks, | Bill Schrader | Baylor College of Medicine, Houston TX |         Haven’t been to Cozumel in a few years, but here are a couple of insights. When I was there shore fishing was permitted on the north side of the island, but much of the south side was a marine sanctuary. Anyways, from shore I found the best fishing to happen at night from the ‘Cabanas del Caribe’ (which may or may not still exist) north.I was using a fly rod and a white 1/0 deceiver, and had a blast with baby tarpon and horse eyed jacks (they’ll pull your arm off!) I saw some snappers further north, but didn’t have my rod at the time. I saw one bonefish, which I spooked, at the northernmost point of the beach, where everything turns to jungle. There are supposedly flats on either end of the island. The book "Fishing Atlas of the World" a big coffee table type book has some details on finding these flats as I recall. You are supposed to have a fishing license, which I believe is free for shore fishing, but I never could find the oficina de pesca and nobody gave me any trouble about it. The boat fishing is supposed to be great, but I didn’t try it. Oh, I was there in mid march. Not sure what January will bring, but it will definitely be better than the -10F I got up to this morning :-                                         john cloyd

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