Question:

Looking for pattern for streamer called Howdy Doody. I believe that is the name of the fly. Seen it on a fishing show, so I haven’t heard of it before.. Can anyone help me…..

Response:

I tried an internet search and found no references to it. So feel free to make up a pattern and name it "Howdy Doody" Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Looking for pattern for streamer called Howdy Doody. I believe that is the name of the fly. Seen it on a fishing show, so I haven’t heard of it before.. Can anyone help me…..

Response:

I tried an internet search and found no references to it. So feel free to make up a pattern and name it "Howdy Doody"

Be sure it has bright red dubbing, freckles, and big ears.

Response:

Question:

Ernie, I assume you are in eastern PA? I am new to flyfishing, but do know where you can do some awesome striper fishing if you aren’t too far east. Raystown Lake has great landlocked striper fishing. 20-30 pounders are the norm and 40+ pounders are caught every year. They do have a website, not sure of the url. Try a search. good luck, Matt

Response:

Hey Guys, Been Fishing the Salt with a fly rod and other tackle for a while now.  Always looking for people to go with.  Would be interested in hearing from any body close. I am in NW Montgomery county.  Any body interested shoot me an email. Ernie, I would suggest a 10WT for most of your fishing, and an intermediate shooting setup for most of your fishing in the surf.  Seems like you are doing battle with the wind most of the time.  Faster sinking lines are great from jetties and intlets.  Get a stipping basket.  Fishing the surf with a fly rod can be very productive for several species in NJ and north coast waters and sometimes it will out produce conventional and spin tackle. Experiment… Damian Damian NuWave Tackle Innovative products designed by fishermen for fishermen Fly Tying equip and matls., Tackle and more. http://www.nuwavetackle.com/

Response:

Thanks Paul              Ernie

Response:

Hello Ernie, Like any "species specific" fishing, you first have to know your quarry and then you must understand your quarry’s quarry.  Check out http://www.fishbelly.com , it’s a new web site that is loaded with great information on fishing for all species of fish.  However, to meet your needs, check out the article by Lefty Kreh on fishing his deceiver fly http://www.fishbelly.com/articles/lk110399.htm Bookmark the site because there’s a new article coming soon by Lou Tabory that deals with how to present your flies for best results.  We will also be highlighting the many different prey items that all species of game fish love.  We will include underwater images that will help you "match the hatch" so to speak, in salt water. I hope this info helps.  If you have any other questions, hop on the fishbelly message forum and I’ll be happy to try and answer them. Finally, if you’re looking for "in depth" — no pun intended — information on stripers, check out the selection of videos at Fishbelly.  As an underwater videographer who has spent over 40 years in the striper’s domain, I can promise you any of the Laptew Production videos will make you a better striper angler. Seize the day!  Go fishing. Mike

Response:

After many years of trouting I would like to give stripers a try. I live in Penna, and can easily get to NJ or the Cape , beforo I start calling guides, some basic info      (when, where, with who) would be appreciated                                                  Thanks,                                                            Ernie

Response:

After many years of trouting I would like to give stripers a try. I live in Penna, and can easily get to NJ or the Cape , beforo I start calling guides, some basic info      (when, where, with who) would be appreciated                                                  Thanks,                                                            Ernie

For equipment you’ll want a 9wt, a sinking line and a reel that’s doesn’t say freshwater only. You can use a 7wt but if it’s really windy or you catch a really big fish you’ll appreciate the 9wt. A few clouser and a a few decievers are all you’ll need for flies. The early season in MA chartruse is a good color. I can’t help with NJ. Check with a local shop for what colors are good. If you buy the flies at the same shop you’re likely to get better advice. Paul

Response:

Question:

Too late! You two would make a *perfect* couple. How ’bout a honeymoon to Yellowstone? congrats, Herman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wolfgang,    Plano is my choice also.  They come in a wide variety of sizes and shapes. Ernie Harrison Jesus Ernie!  We’ve got to stop agreeing on everything like this or people are gonna start thinking we’re…well….you know.  Besides, despite Mike’s eloquent plea for restraint and good fellowship I kinda like the usual Sturm und Drang which characterizes this place.  Can’t we find something to fight about?

Response:

Too late! You two would make a *perfect* couple. How ’bout a honeymoon to Yellowstone?

Hey, back off Wolfie, Ernie’s mine.   GRRRRR.   ,      - Ken —

Response:

Well Wolfgang,    We could fight about where we are going to meet tonight. Ernie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wolfgang,    Plano is my choice also.  They come in a wide variety of sizes and shapes. Ernie Harrison Jesus Ernie!  We’ve got to stop agreeing on everything like this or people are gonna start thinking we’re…well….you know.  Besides, despite Mike’s eloquent plea for restraint and good fellowship I kinda like the usual Sturm und Drang which characterizes this place.  Can’t we find something to fight about?

Response:

Too late! You two would make a *perfect* couple. How ’bout a honeymoon to Yellowstone?

me think about this for a while.

Response:

The risk of Wheatley boxes (and their clones) is the dreaded Wheatley hatch. Flip one of the covers while you’re in the stream, and chances are that you loose half of the content. Just my 0.02 Euro worth..

LOL! "Wheatley Hatch" – I love it! I had one of those with a tiny Wheatley (Wheatlette?) box which was crammed with minutiae (24’s and smaller), while standing at the Cable Pool on the SJ. I still don’t know how many critters found their freedom that morning… I have two of those shirt-pocket size boxes – all the rest of my W’s use the foam strips. Lesson learned… /daytripper

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi Odd question I know, but what is the best way to carry flies?  I have about 150 flys ranging from 22 gnats to size 6 streamers and am trying to find the best overall flybox. I just bought a perrine aluminum box which holds flys in a coil, this works for the size 10s-18s but is not quite so good for the larger flys and is useless for the 22s. Also, my flys are a mix of nymphs, drys and streamers. Should I put my drys in a compartmented fly box? or is the coil holder ok? Thanks KB

Plastic with ripple foam or compartments. 6 of em = 1 Wheatly. Joel Axelrad

Response:

Hi Mike

Hi Kevin, Suitable fly-boxes have always been a major problem, especially if you engage in several types of fly-fishing.( as I do ). I have found it impossible to find one fly-box suitable for all occasions, and I have tried every fly-boy available. The best ones (  apart from the Wheatleys ) are the ones I have made myself.  If the Wheatleys could be made in plastic ( Oh heresy !!!! ) and floated when dropped, and did not rot, and did not dent when  dropped on the only stone within half  a mile, they would be just about perfect. I started using the colour coded boxes fairly quickly, as the types and styles of fly I use increased beyond my capability of keeping track. There is nothing more annoying than trying to get a weighted nymph to float in the surface film !   I colour code my nymphs at the fly bench, depending on weight, but it is still a bloody nuisance picking them out of a full box, especially when the little red spot of varnish ( extra heavy, ten windings of lead  ! ) has worn off.  Colour coded boxes make the whole thing easier. I admit I am a fly freak, and carry anything up to ten thousand ( yes ! I mean it !!! ) flies on  any given trip, so I have a lot of experience. The magnetic solution is quite good, but still sometimes results in crushed hackles. The hooks are magnetised through contact with the magnets, and tend to spring into positions dependent on their intrinsic magnetic fields, which can be a nuisance, otherwise this method is about the best, especially for large flies. If you get the right shape of magnet, the flies are held securely without crushing. The display magnets I mentioned are very powerful, and will hold even large flies in a high wind. They will also hold tiny nymphs satisfactorily. You should have a look in a good stationary store ( artists supplies etc, ) they usually have wide selections of these magnets for pennies. Get the size and shape of magnets to suit your flies, you can glue several different magnets into one box if you wish, depending on how many types of flies you wish to carry. The reason I use the sandwich boxes is that the marabou and similar wings on large flies just will not fit in standard boxes without half the marabou or whatever, being trapped in the damn lid when you close the box. The sandwich boxes are much deeper.  One of the best boxes I have found is the "Curver" sandwich box. This is three inches deep, and carries pike and saltwater flies perfectly, without crushing, and without trapping stuff in the lid. I have several of these boxes ( they are cheap ) some lined with foam, and some with magnets, I have upwards of a thousand flies in each box. My "medium" size seatrout box contains over three thousand flies with ease. Have a good look round before you decide what to get. Half the fun is getting your gear together properly.  I have spent many a winter night "sorting" flies from one box to another, when I should have been tying. I enjoyed it just as much. I am sure you will get lots of advice on this theme here, and I am looking forward to hearing some of the replies myself. Fly containers are one of the biggest problems for the flyfisherman. TL MC

Response:

Line ??????  I think I just lost the drift ?    What the hell is the matter with you folks tonight ?  Or am I too many whiskies ahead ? Tight lines anyway, time for bed I think. MC

Response:

Nah! Nah! Nah! Nah Nah! Naaaaah! Well, maybe the nerve is the SECOND thing to go George! twitch twitch _______  I would not touch this line with a twenty foot fly rod. Self control George!  Self control! 1,2, 3 . . . pant, pant! I will not rise to this drift/troll.

– Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

The risk of Wheatley boxes (and their clones) is the dreaded Wheatley hatch. Flip one of the covers while you’re in the stream, and chances are that you loose half of the content.  Just my 0.02 Euro worth.. Cheers, Herman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Mike Thanks for your reply.  I’ll look around for the wheatley boxes you suggest. Hi Kevin, A knockoff of the Wheatley box (about  1/3 of the price) is the Okuma. Here is the link for an Okuma from my site. Be warned, it is a good box but it is not the quality of a Wheatley. http://www.ezflyfish.com/ezflyfish/okwinflybox.html For streamers, I like a saltwater style plastic compartmentalized boxes, they segregate the patterns well and it is easy to see what is in each box. an example: http://www.ezflyfish.com/ezflyfish/corunflybox1.html if you have any questions, feel free to ask me… apologies to the group… "John’s" e-mail address is fake. –Walt — Ezflyfish.com                 Blue Ridge Book Gallery Quality Gear & Service        Used & Out-of-Print Books http://www.ezflyfish.com      http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Hi Odd question I know, but what is the best way to carry flies?  I have about 150 flys ranging from 22 gnats to size 6 streamers and am trying to find the best overall flybox. I just bought a perrine aluminum box which holds flys in a coil, this works for the size 10s-18s but is not quite so good for the larger flys and is useless for the 22s. Also, my flys are a mix of nymphs, drys and streamers. Should I put my drys in a compartmented fly box? or is the coil holder ok? Thanks KB

Response:

. . .  am trying to find the best overall flybox.

I use transparent plastic boxes (Myran? Myrant?, something like that), except for a Wheatley swing-leaf given me as a gift.  In one, about 4×6" I keep all the dries I might be using.  The Wheatley gets all the nymphs for the day.  In several other divided plastic boxes I separate flies by dry or nymph, big and little, but these are pretty much for storage, and stay in the duffle.  Big streamers, nymphs, etc., live in their own box. I just bought a perrine aluminum box which holds flys in a coil

Mine got rusty years and years ago, the hooks got rusty too.  Am I a lazy slut, or what? Anglerboy — Trout fear me, Women want me.

Response:

Hi Mike Thanks for your reply.  I’ll look around for the wheatley boxes you suggest. I was trying to see if there was just one box I could carry (being the minimalist that I am), but I think that  you’re right, keeping them stored in color coded boxes probably makes more sense. That way I can get boxes that match the size of the hooks too. Using magnetic fly holders is a darn fine idea!  Do you find the hooks stick OK even when they are jossled around a bit? Do you have any bother with your streamers hanging out the sides of the boxes? I use lots of marabou so the flies are quite bulky. One of the problems I’ve had is finding a box big enough to store them without having to carry a suitcase. Thanks. It’s very helpful to get your advice. Otherwise I’d end up using trial and error and buying a bunch of boxes that are no good. Kevin

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A vexed question.   For dry flies and spiders I use Wheatleys compartment boxes. Not ideal, and expensive, but about the best I have used to date. For streamers and standard wet flies and nymphs in all sizes, I use scientific anglers ethafoam lined boxes colour coded so I know which is which, cheap and effective. Works great unless you use barbless hooks. For barbless hooks I use Sandwich boxes from my local supermarket, with strips of magnetic tape glued in. I coat the tape with epoxy to prevent it rusting. There are also various shaped magnets for display boards available, which may be glued into boxes and used for the same purpose. Coat with epoxy to prevent rusting. For small amounts of flies a used small  film canister of clear plastic is a great and cheap container. Just don’t put too many flies in one canister. The same canister drilled all around with small holes and affixed to a lanyard on your vest, jacket etc, makes a great drying box. TL MC

Response:

In one, about 4×6" I keep all the dries I might be using.  

Hmm, I was wondering if drys are better in compartments rather than clipped on. I found it tricky putting them in the coil without crushing the hackle. The Wheatley gets all the nymphs for the day.  In several other divided plastic boxes I separate flies by dry or nymph, big and little, but these are pretty much for storage, and stay in the duffle.  Big streamers, nymphs, etc., live in their own box.

So you don’t use any sort of clipping system at all? Just compartments? Is this easier to find the flys? I just bought a perrine aluminum box which holds flys in a coil Mine got rusty years and years ago, the hooks got rusty too.  Am I a lazy slut, or what?

Oh great! I just spent $26 on the damn thing! Said on the packaging that it won’t rust! Kevin Trout laugh at me, Women walk on me.

Response:

Hi Mike Thanks for your reply.  I’ll look around for the wheatley boxes you suggest.

Hi Kevin, A knockoff of the Wheatley box (about  1/3 of the price) is the Okuma. Here is the link for an Okuma from my site. Be warned, it is a good box but it is not the quality of a Wheatley. http://www.ezflyfish.com/ezflyfish/okwinflybox.html For streamers, I like a saltwater style plastic compartmentalized boxes, they segregate the patterns well and it is easy to see what is in each box. an example: http://www.ezflyfish.com/ezflyfish/corunflybox1.html if you have any questions, feel free to ask me… apologies to the group… "John’s" e-mail address is fake. –Walt — Ezflyfish.com                 Blue Ridge Book Gallery Quality Gear & Service        Used & Out-of-Print Books http://www.ezflyfish.com      http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

Response:

I just bought my 11 year old son a Cabela’s box with the nubby stuff instead of foam.  We got home and put some flies in it then pulled them out.  It works!  It holds well and lets them go when you pull.  I dropped it about 2 feet onto a table to see how many flies came loose and none did.  (I am pretty sure weighted streamers might pop out under those conditions.) I am thinking about picking some up for myself. (No association with Cabela’s other than as a paying customer.) — — Sherman Dunnam www.flyfishingjournal.com Stream Reports, Free Fishing Software & More

Response:

Whatever your name is AKA John Smith, I tried fooling around with different size boxes for sorting flys and it seemed like a damn fine idea.  What I discovered was the multiple boxes take up more room than a single larger box.  When I tried to create specialty boxes for different fishing situations (ie, small stream box) I always left out the flys I wanted when I got on stream.  I now carry two boxes, one for trout and one for smallmouth.  Bluegill and largemouth are fed from the smallmouth box.  The Millstream box with ripples on both sides worked better in the long run than the nubs in my Cortland box.  I’m going to drill a few holes to facilitate drying if I take a dunking (has happened a couple of times) as the boxes are not waterproof.  Most plastic boxes with ripple foam are manufactured by or knockoffs of the Millstream. Granddaddy always told me a man should be willing to sign his name to anything he writes.  If he’s not willing to sign his name then his word isn’t worth the paper its written on.  If you’re afraid of a little SPAM then get the hell off the internet.  You spend more time ducking it than deleting the crap. Wayne To fish is human…to release Divine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Odd question I know, but what is the best way to carry flies?  I have about 150 flys ranging from 22 gnats to size 6 streamers and am trying to find the best overall flybox. I just bought a perrine aluminum box which holds flys in a coil, this works for the size 10s-18s but is not quite so good for the larger flys and is useless for the 22s. Also, my flys are a mix of nymphs, drys and streamers. Should I put my drys in a compartmented fly box? or is the coil holder ok? Thanks KB

Response:

_______  I would not touch this line with a twenty foot fly rod. Self control George!  Self control! 1,2, 3 . . . pant, pant! I will not rise to this drift/troll.

Response:

A vexed question.   For dry flies and spiders I use Wheatleys compartment boxes. Not ideal, and expensive, but about the best I have used to date. For streamers and standard wet flies and nymphs in all sizes, I use scientific anglers ethafoam lined boxes colour coded so I know which is which, cheap and effective. Works great unless you use barbless hooks.  For barbless hooks I use Sandwich boxes from my local supermarket, with strips of magnetic tape glued in. I coat the tape with epoxy to prevent it rusting. There are also various shaped magnets for display boards available, which may be glued into boxes and used for the same purpose. Coat with epoxy to prevent rusting. For small amounts of flies a used small  film canister of clear plastic is a great and cheap container. Just don’t put too many flies in one canister. The same canister drilled all around with small holes and affixed to a lanyard on your vest, jacket etc, makes a great drying box. TL MC

Response:

Wolfgang,    Plano is my choice also.  They come in a wide variety of sizes and shapes. Ernie Harrison

Jesus Ernie!  We’ve got to stop agreeing on everything like this or people are gonna start thinking we’re…well….you know.  Besides, despite Mike’s eloquent plea for restraint and good fellowship I kinda like the usual Sturm und Drang which characterizes this place.  Can’t we find something to fight about?

Response:

The cheapest and a very effective example is a plastic box lined with foam.  You can buy a Wheatley if you have the extra money to spend. Forrest Arakawa Forrest – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A vexed question.   For dry flies and spiders I use Wheatleys compartment boxes. Not ideal, and expensive, but about the best I have used to date. For streamers and standard wet flies and nymphs in all sizes, I use scientific anglers ethafoam lined boxes colour coded so I know which is which, cheap and effective. Works great unless you use barbless hooks.  For barbless hooks I use Sandwich boxes from my local supermarket, with strips of magnetic tape glued in. I coat the tape with epoxy to prevent it rusting. There are also various shaped magnets for display boards available, which may be glued into boxes and used for the same purpose. Coat with epoxy to prevent rusting. For small amounts of flies a used small  film canister of clear plastic is a great and cheap container. Just don’t put too many flies in one canister. The same canister drilled all around with small holes and affixed to a lanyard on your vest, jacket etc, makes a great drying box. TL MC

Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Wolfgang,    Plano is my choice also.  They come in a wide variety of sizes and shapes. Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For the past ten years or so I have used Plano mini (or is it micro?) magnum boxes exclusively.  These boxes are about 3×4 inches and open on both top and bottom.  There are several sizes of compartments which will accommodate all sizes of flies with the exception of mammoth salt water or pike and musky patterns.  I know it is heresy to suggest that one keep one’s delicate dries in a loose jumble but it has never done mine any damage.  These boxes have the added advantage of being transparent allowing you to see what you’ve got without opening.  They are also VERY cheap; in the neighborhood of two to three bucks a piece. Good luck.

Response:

Hi Odd question I know, but what is the best way to carry flies?

John; For the past ten years or so I have used Plano mini (or is it micro?) magnum boxes exclusively.  These boxes are about 3×4 inches and open on both top and bottom.  There are several sizes of compartments which will accommodate all sizes of flies with the exception of mammoth salt water or pike and musky patterns.  I know it is heresy to suggest that one keep one’s delicate dries in a loose jumble but it has never done mine any damage.  These boxes have the added advantage of being transparent allowing you to see what you’ve got without opening.  They are also VERY cheap; in the neighborhood of two to three bucks a piece. Good luck.

Response:

If there is any possibility of loss of flies due to spill or wind you must leave these on the mantel at home. They have no place astream. Your pal, – TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Response:

I’m afraid you’re too many whiskeys behind. Line ??????  I think I just lost the drift ?    What the hell is the matter with you folks tonight ?  Or am I too many whiskies ahead ? Tight lines anyway, time for bed I think. MC

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Question:

Geeze, could you html-prone people switch back to plain text?

[snip] – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – torn my face!&nbsp; You are indeed talented beyond the finest thesaursis.’s ssssssssssssss&nbsp; I.e. PLURAL BABY!&nbsp; Plural. <br&nbsp; <p– <brMr. G. <br’all’s fair with fur or feather’ <p<A HREF="http://www.gink.com"http://www.gink.com</A <br<A HREF="http://www.rodbuilding.com"http://www.rodbuilding.com</A <br<A HREF="http://www.xink.com"http://www.xink.com</A <br509-243-4100 or 5500 <br&copy; 1999 by George Gehrke <br&nbsp;</html

Response:

For the traditionalists among you. As I was walking all alane, a heard twa anglers a makkin mane, the ane unto the ither did say oh, whaur shal we gang and fish the day oh, whaur shall we gang and fish the day, A dinna care whaur we seek delight, wi ma Black Raven as black as night, yon fush may rise so sly it may oh, this night a

Question:

Jim Do you have another tune or will you carry on repeating the same quote ad infinitum?? (Latin, save you looking it up!). — Regards Peter (Please also reply by email, my server "loses" posts. Remove nospam to email) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Catch some brookies and clean them, removing the heads. That said, I *am* an unabashed Animal Rights supporter. Moe, please explain how you an AR-loon like yourself can advocate eating fish while at the same time supporting the view that that fish have "rights". You cannot have it both ways.

Response:

Nah, it’s the same thing that Tim does (or did).  Same thing time after time.  Apparently there’s some bad blood between the two. Although I think it’s a very good question.  The two statements do seem to be at odds with each other. Later,      - Ken — Not speaking for anyone but myself – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jim Do you have another tune or will you carry on repeating the same quote ad infinitum?? (Latin, save you looking it up!). — Regards Peter (Please also reply by email, my server "loses" posts. Remove nospam to email) Catch some brookies and clean them, removing the heads. That said, I *am* an unabashed Animal Rights supporter. Moe, please explain how you an AR-loon like yourself can advocate eating fish while at the same time supporting the view that that fish have "rights". You cannot have it both ways.

Response:

Me to fish: "You have the right to live. You have the right to try to eat my flies. You have the right to try to escape. You have the right to be released sometimes. You have the right to be my meal." "Some mornings I wonder if it was worth it to gnaw through the leather straps."  – E. Philips

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Catch some brookies and clean them, removing the heads. That said, I *am* an unabashed Animal Rights supporter. Moe, please explain how you an AR-loon like yourself can advocate eating fish while at the same time supporting the view that that fish have "rights". You cannot have it both ways.

Hey Powlesland Ever hear of the food chain? your an imbecilic dweeb….. –Walt

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Catch some brookies and clean them, removing the heads. That said, I *am* an unabashed Animal Rights supporter. Moe, please explain how you an AR-loon like yourself can advocate eating fish while at the same time supporting the view that that fish have "rights". You cannot have it both ways. Hey Powlesland Ever hear of the food chain? your an imbecilic dweeb…..

Walt, I think you missed his point…and lighten up.      - Ken — Not speaking for anyone but myself

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone have a good trout recipe?  I’ll be heading into the Bob Marshall Wilderness later this summer and a frying pan (or a tinfoil baking) full of trout would be quite yummy.   Take some Spam and put the trout back for next time. — Lloyd Fortney http://www.phy.duke.edu/~fortney/ has links to my garden, flower, flyfishing, and travel JPEG images as well as teaching, research, and stuff like that

1. Lite a fire 2. Fill gut cavity with small amount of brown sugar and salt 3. Wrap fish in foil 4. Put wrapped fish in embers and wait ten minutes 5. Have cigarette and beer 6. EAT

Response:

Take some Spam and put the trout back for next time. Lloyd Fortney

Another argument for cannibalism. — TimW – Halfordian Golfer Guilt replaced the creel…

Response:

I hope thats humor, because I thought it funny. Who in the hell would pass up Trout for dinner to eat a can of "processed" meat? Love them Trout,

Spam (the national food of Hawaii, no joke) is a damned good backup if the fish aren’t on the bite…it will sustain you AND make you try a little harder the next day… — TimW – Halfordian Golfer Guilt replaced the creel…

Response:

In all seriousness… If you’re backpacking, all you’ll need is to take an empty spice container and whup up some TBone’s Backpacking Spice (80% salt, 10% pepper, 9% Onion Powder, 1% Garlic powder). Catch some brookies and clean them, removing the heads.  Now, take a regulation weiner stick and slide it between the spine and skin and expose the belly to some ready coals.  As it cooks it will open up.  When ready to eat (use your fingers) sprinkle some TBS on the flesh and enjoy.   If God decides he needs you on the spot, you’ll be ready to go buddy.   Have a great trip. — TimW – Halfordian Golfer Guilt replaced the creel… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone have a good trout recipe?  I’ll be heading into the Bob Marshall Wilderness later this summer and a frying pan (or a tinfoil baking) full of trout would be quite yummy.

Response:

I would rather carry Ramen noodles. Very light, cheap, easy, full of carbos, and a good side dish with the Trout. I can not identify nor stomache SPAM. Sam – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I hope thats humor, because I thought it funny. Who in the hell would pass up Trout for dinner to eat a can of "processed" meat? Love them Trout, Spam (the national food of Hawaii, no joke) is a damned good backup if the fish aren’t on the bite…it will sustain you AND make you try a little harder the next day… — TimW – Halfordian Golfer Guilt replaced the creel…

Response:

Take some spam…ok, I’ll kill a pig instead of a trout. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Take some Spam and put the trout back for next time. Lloyd Fortney Another argument for cannibalism. — TimW – Halfordian Golfer Guilt replaced the creel…

Response:

Does anyone have a good trout recipe?  I’ll be heading into the Bob Marshall Wilderness later this summer and a frying pan (or a tinfoil baking) full of trout would be quite yummy.   Take some Spam and put the trout back for next time.

Yikes, I tried that last year and it seriously depleted my supply of Mr.Softy. (being in a Ponderosa Pine forest, I couldn’t resort to Sargent Scratchy-Yow!). To restore my well-being I went back to the tried and true Trout Burritos. Take a frying pan, a small vial of olive oil, an onion or garlic and some flour tortillas.  A campstove vs. a campfire will diminish your impact in high country more significantly than the release of one or two trout.   Saute the onion and/or garlic in olive oil, then stuff this in the trout and lay it in the pan. Turn the heat low and cover with four tortillas. Turn the trout once and rotate the tortillas to warm them all. Remove the bones and fins and roll up in the tortillas with the onions.   Mark Vinsel

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Animal rights…..hmmm…I bet our native prairies wish they had had rights before they were plowed under for food crops.  Ever rip a living plant out of the ground, or twist an ear off a corn plant? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Catch some brookies and clean them, removing the heads. That said, I *am* an unabashed Animal Rights supporter. Moe, please explain how you an AR-loon like yourself can advocate eating fish while at the same time supporting the view that that fish have "rights". You cannot have it both ways.

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Does anyone have a good trout recipe?  I’ll be heading into the Bob Marshall Wilderness later this summer and a frying pan (or a tinfoil baking) full of trout would be quite yummy.

All these recipes are sounding great.    A tip: if you happen to run into some  ’muddy’ tasting trout (you probably won’t in the Bob Marshall), try skinning them before cooking.   Most of the muddy taste in trout is in the fat on the inside of the skin, and transfers to the meat while cooking.   (Not true with catfish.) Max http://www.inetarena.com/~mwi

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Does anyone have a good trout recipe?  I’ll be heading into the Bob Marshall Wilderness later this summer and a frying pan (or a tinfoil baking) full of trout would be quite yummy.

Just a little warning. The regulations in the Bob Marshall are rather strange. You can only take three fish *under* 12", and you can’t take several restricted species. (Basically, anything but Cutthroats and Rainbows.) You might think this is never enforced in a wilderness area, but the last time I was there (last July) we encountered three extremely aggressive and well-armed fish and game wardens. Fortunately, we were in full compliance. One more thing. Some watersheds have a lot of whitefish. There is no limit on them, and they’re pretty tasty, but rather boney. There’s no excuse for releasing a whitefish, as they compete with trout. It you don’t want to eat it then throw it on the bank for the critters.         Steve Barnard

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Why should it? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nova Scotia standard fry your catch recipe: Clean trout, (we NEVER fillet trout) Roll in corn meal Fry in bacon fat (from three slices done up just before, or use oil) 7 min per side per pound Heaven I eat some, I put most back – selective catch and release – depends on hunger!!!!! Bill Does anyone have a good trout recipe?  I’ll be heading into the Bob Marshall Wilderness later this summer and a frying pan (or a tinfoil baking) full of trout would be quite yummy. — Bill Curry Tight Lines Guide Service Lockeport, Nova Scotia, Canada Phone or Fax :  902-656-3329 http://www.tightlines.ns.ca

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Does anyone have a good trout recipe?  I’ll be heading into the Bob Marshall Wilderness later this summer and a frying pan (or a tinfoil baking) full of trout would be quite yummy.

Place trout on a sheet of foil large enough to totally wrap.  Place alternating slices of onions and tomatos on top.  Squeeze juice from one lemon over the trout, then add several thin slices of butter on top. Wrap it up with the foil and throw it on the fire.  Also great in the oven too.  Eat with slices of French bread to soak up the juices.     Or…. salt and pepper the trout, then roll in cornmeal and fry away. Gotta go now… getting hungry.                                                               Spy in Hi.

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Nova Scotia standard fry your catch recipe: Clean trout, (we NEVER fillet trout) Roll in corn meal Fry in bacon fat (from three slices done up just before, or use oil) 7 min per side per pound Heaven I eat some, I put most back – selective catch and release – depends on hunger!!!!! Bill Does anyone have a good trout recipe?  I’ll be heading into the Bob Marshall Wilderness later this summer and a frying pan (or a tinfoil baking) full of trout would be quite yummy.

– Bill Curry Tight Lines Guide Service Lockeport, Nova Scotia, Canada Phone or Fax :  902-656-3329 http://www.tightlines.ns.ca

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Cooked over hot coals in open air is great. In foil w/ salt, pepper and garlic is good under the coals is good.  (Put buttered white bread in the body cavity to add flavor and soak up juices — discard the bread after cooking.) Broiled is good. Sauteed in butter is good. Poached in white wine is good. Smoked is good. Boiled with old socks is not good. "Some mornings I wonder if it was worth it to gnaw through the leather straps."  – E. Philips

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Does anyone have a good trout recipe?  I’ll be heading into the Bob Marshall Wilderness later this summer and a frying pan (or a tinfoil baking) full of trout would be quite yummy. Fillet a decent sized trout.  Roll the fillets in some Ritz cracker crumbs and fry in a mixture of a little butter and olive oil.  When the fish is nearly done, drip some soy sauce on top of the fish.  Um um good.

That does sound good! Personally, I like the smaller fish, 12" or under, not filleted, that can be fried crispy enough so you can eat the fins and the tail. Actually, panfish from brackish water are much better eating.         Steve Barnard

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Does anyone have a good trout recipe?  I’ll be heading into the Bob Marshall Wilderness later this summer and a frying pan (or a tinfoil baking) full of trout would be quite yummy.

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Does anyone have a good trout recipe?  I’ll be heading into the Bob Marshall Wilderness later this summer and a frying pan (or a tinfoil baking) full of trout would be quite yummy.

  Take some Spam and put the trout back for next time. — Lloyd Fortney http://www.phy.duke.edu/~fortney/ has links to my garden, flower, flyfishing, and travel JPEG images as well as teaching, research, and stuff like that

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I hope thats humor, because I thought it funny. Who in the hell would pass up Trout for dinner to eat a can of "processed" meat? Love them Trout, Sam – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone have a good trout recipe?  I’ll be heading into the Bob Marshall Wilderness later this summer and a frying pan (or a tinfoil baking) full of trout would be quite yummy.   Take some Spam and put the trout back for next time. — Lloyd Fortney http://www.phy.duke.edu/~fortney/ has links to my garden, flower, flyfishing, and travel JPEG images as well as teaching, research, and stuff like that

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Does anyone have a good trout recipe?  I’ll be heading into the Bob Marshall Wilderness later this summer and a frying pan (or a tinfoil baking) full of trout would be quite yummy.

Fillet a decent sized trout.  Roll the fillets in some Ritz cracker crumbs and fry in a mixture of a little butter and olive oil.  When the fish is nearly done, drip some soy sauce on top of the fish.  Um um good.

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Question:

I would view pure C&R as a really mean act in this situation, wouldn’t you ? No. You would not view the practice of C&R on starving fish a mean act ?   Really ?

What would anyone do with a ’starving’ fish –  bury it in their garden to fertilize the tomatoes? Feed it to the cat? Cat might not eat it! Ralph H

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I would view pure C&R as a really mean act in this situation, wouldn’t you ? No. You would not view the practice of C&R on starving fish a mean act ?   Really ? You would throw a starving dog a rubber bone ? You are a mean man Mr. Tatosian, IMO.

Tim, that was clearly a sarcastic remark in as short a form as I could provide, in response to this totally contrived troll of yours (which didn’t merit the response you would like to have received)… Yours is a tiresome routine – starting one thread after another all aimed at repeating your philosphy ad nauseum – and self-sanctified as being preferable to more civilized/less contentious topics of discussion… To what ends, I ask? Frankly I’m surprised you have any time left to actually fish – if you actually *do* fish… /dave

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For all that we praise the "intelligence" of trout (mostly because sometimes we can’t catch them) they are really creatures of habit. Research studies (not fairy tales or anecdotes) have shown that trout may take several days to switch to a larger (hence more energy efficient), equally abundant, prey after several days of feeding on smaller prey.         Also, sorry to insult anyone, there has been some serious c**p thrown out in this thread. Atlantic salmon ascend long rivers, take no food and undergo physiological changes (requiring energy) related to spawning, spawn, spend an entire winter under the ice, and then head back to sea. In the process they lose from 1/3 to 1/2 their body weight. On the way out they feed, take flies well, often fight as hard as a bright fish, and recover quickly (studies show well over 90% survival, probably because of the cold oxygen-rich water). Based on this I seriously doubt that trout are harmed by being caught providing they are landed quickly and THE WATER TEMPERATURES ARE LOW. Paul Marriner

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For all that we praise the "intelligence" of trout (mostly because sometimes we can’t catch them) they are really creatures of habit. Research studies (not fairy tales or anecdotes) have shown that trout may take several days to switch to a larger (hence more energy efficient), equally abundant, prey after several days of feeding on smaller prey.         Also, sorry to insult anyone, there has been some serious c**p thrown out in this thread. Atlantic salmon ascend long rivers, take no food and undergo physiological changes (requiring energy) related to spawning, spawn, spend an entire winter under the ice, and then head back to sea. In the process they lose from 1/3 to 1/2 their body weight. On the way out they feed, take flies well, often fight as hard as a bright fish, and recover quickly (studies show well over 90% survival, probably because of the cold oxygen-rich water). Based on this I seriously doubt that trout are harmed by being caught providing they are landed quickly and THE WATER TEMPERATURES ARE LOW.

Paul, Would the same hold true in a non-anadromous population with a sparser food base ?  Please accept that the high altitude freestone creeks are not the big food suppliers as an oceanic watershed, almost barren in some cases.   I do so wish that you would not call the postings of myself and our friends ‘c**p’.   Also, you have compared this to one of the most strenuous acts of reproduction in nature.  A required one and one of major literary & philosophical meaning.  The desparate act of a fish NOT making it over the falls in some cases.  The desparate act of an old cock on its last trip upstream. The desparateness of losing 1/2 of their body weight in this struggle. Not really on the same plane as hooking and playing it for fun, is it ? Respectfully, TimW

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Fish have to dash away from predators all the time; they have energy stores that help them deal with that. Trout, steelhead and salmon go through frequent and often lengthy periods when they feed little or not at all. You’d have us believe that a "sprint around the block" followed by a fast lasting a few hours will lead to death by starvation.

But… When you’re fishing a hatch, you play the fish buring one of those *brief* periods when food is abundant.  If the sprint around the block is always at diinertime, and the food is gone by the time you return, it can add up. I’m not saying, "don’t fish," I’m just saying that there are impacts involved in c&r, just like any style of fishing.   (Besides, during a heavy hatch, it can be a lot of fun to lean the rod against a tree and watch the fish work, without trying to catch them. Can improve your fishing, too.) CQ

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A fish feeding selectively is a fish wallowing in luxury, isn’t it?  I mean, you’re more likely to find a selective fish in some rich, artificial tailwater than you are in a high-county lake or stream, aren’t you?  

Not when a hatch is on.  High country fish can be very selective then. It makes sense for a trout to become selective when mayflies are hatching because it’s a temporary abundance.   The nymphs, baitfish, et al, will still be there after the hatch is over. CQ

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For all that we praise the "intelligence" of trout (mostly because sometimes we can’t catch them) they are really creatures of habit. Research studies (not fairy tales or anecdotes) have shown that trout may take several days to switch to a larger (hence more energy efficient), equally abundant, prey after several days of feeding on smaller prey.         Also, sorry to insult anyone, there has been some serious c**p thrown out in this thread. Atlantic salmon ascend long rivers, take no food and undergo physiological changes (requiring energy) related to spawning, spawn, spend an entire winter under the ice, and then head back to sea. In the process they lose from 1/3 to 1/2 their body weight. On the way out they feed, take flies well, often fight as hard as a bright fish, and recover quickly (studies show well over 90% survival, probably because of the cold oxygen-rich water). Based on this I seriously doubt that trout are harmed by being caught providing they are landed quickly and THE WATER TEMPERATURES ARE LOW. Paul, Would the same hold true in a non-anadromous population with a sparser food base ?  Please accept that the high altitude freestone creeks are not the big food suppliers as an oceanic watershed, almost barren in some cases.   I do so wish that you would not call the postings of myself and our friends ‘c**p’.   Also, you have compared this to one of the most strenuous acts of reproduction in nature.  A required one and one of major literary & philosophical meaning.  The desparate act of a fish NOT making it over the falls in some cases.  The desparate act of an old cock on its last trip upstream. The desparateness of losing 1/2 of their body weight in this struggle. Not really on the same plane as hooking and playing it for fun, is it ? Respectfully, TimW

Sorry Tim I think this little bit of work from your imagination is a clunker. But then nobody bats 100. I posted my reponses previously so won’t repeat them. hope you don’t mind me asking but did you base this on any study or work that shows fish in those alpine streams you fish are so stressed by lack of food? BTW a fish with a big head and small body isn’t starving it’s just lean like a marathon runner or a cheetah. Starving fish have shrunken concave bellies. You wouldn’t want to eat one either. Ralph H

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For all that we praise the "intelligence" of trout (mostly because sometimes we can’t catch them) they are really creatures of habit. Research studies (not fairy tales or anecdotes) have shown that trout may take several days to switch to a larger (hence more energy efficient), equally abundant, prey after several days of feeding on smaller prey.         Also, sorry to insult anyone, there has been some serious c**p thrown out in this thread. Atlantic salmon ascend long rivers, take no food and undergo physiological changes (requiring energy) related to spawning, spawn, spend an entire winter under the ice, and then head back to sea. In the process they lose from 1/3 to 1/2 their body weight. On the way out they feed, take flies well, often fight as hard as a bright fish, and recover quickly (studies show well over 90% survival, probably because of the cold oxygen-rich water). Based on this I seriously doubt that trout are harmed by being caught providing they are landed quickly and THE WATER TEMPERATURES ARE LOW. Paul, Would the same hold true in a non-anadromous population with a sparser food base ?  Please accept that the high altitude freestone creeks are not the big food suppliers as an oceanic watershed, almost barren in some cases.   I do so wish that you would not call the postings of myself and our friends ‘c**p’.   Also, you have compared this to one of the most strenuous acts of reproduction in nature.  A required one and one of major literary & philosophical meaning.  The desparate act of a fish NOT making it over the falls in some cases.  The desparate act of an old cock on its last trip upstream. The desparateness of losing 1/2 of their body weight in this struggle. Not really on the same plane as hooking and playing it for fun, is it ? Respectfully, TimW

Sorry time but IMO this work from your imagination is a clunker. I’ve posted my responses elsewhere and won’t repeat them. However let me ask did you base this post on any kind of study on the alpine streams in your area that indicated the fish were so stressed by lack of food? BTW a fish with a big head and small body isn’t starving; it’s just lean like a marathon runner or a cheetah. Starving fish have concave shrunken bellies. You wouldn’t want to eat one either. Ralph H

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: That the fish is feeding selectively speaks to the difficulties of : being a fish.   : A fish feeding selectively is a fish wallowing in luxury, isn’t it?   I have to agree here; the arguments being made of the average fish fight being so life-threatening is kindof ridiculous. This "1/2 energy/wieght/whatever lost" being mispresented. As (I think) another poster said, think of it as a sprint. Even if you are out of shape, a sprint won’t kill you — in fact, 10 minutes later you won’t even feel the effects. Same for the trout. You use up your short-term energy — sugar in the cells — but this doesn’t effect your fat reserves or anything to any large degree. Now, a prolonged fight, and environmental stresses (such as warm water) are worse, but I don’t think from an energy loss standpoint its much worse — the problems come from the fish needing more time to recuperate and can’t orient itself during this time (unlike us, who would just lay down on the ground and *breathe*; a fish can’t do that). We’ve all had hard releases — I held a fish for 20 minutes one time (actually stopped him from swimming away a couple of times), and eventually he looked just fine, swam away and took a position behind a rock — was still there later in the day. I don’t think the energy loss hurt him one bit. I’ll second that a big-head/little-bodied fish mean there’s too many fish for the food base, and you should keep it anyways. JonCook.

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A guy who works in a fly shop just told me this evening about a guy who said he played a steelhead for 3 and a half hours.  I asked him how big it was and he told me the guy claimed 8 pounds.  Slightly less than a

Good Grief!  What kind of rod could he have been using.  I have landed steelhead this size on a 4 wt. rod in less than 20 minutes.  Three and a half hours is torture! -Burton

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While you guys are debating C&R vs.C&K and skinny fish, and how much time landing a fish is too much time…THEY ARE BUILDING A GOLD MINE ON THE BLACFOOT RIVER IN MONTANA….and it has the potential to render all your arguments moot… I have taken the liberty of changing the thread title for you, if you want a serious discussion of the mine possibility and its detriment. This is a different thread… TimW

 Nah…I just wanted to remind you that there are bigger fish to fry.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : That the fish is feeding selectively speaks to the difficulties of : being a fish. : A fish feeding selectively is a fish wallowing in luxury, isn’t it? I have to agree here; the arguments being made of the average fish fight being so life-threatening is kindof ridiculous. This "1/2 energy/wieght/whatever lost" being mispresented. As (I think) another poster said, think of it as a sprint. Even if you are out of shape, a sprint won’t kill you — in fact, 10 minutes later you won’t even feel the effects. Same for the trout. You use up your short-term energy — sugar in the cells — but this doesn’t effect your fat reserves or anything to any large degree. Now, a prolonged fight, and environmental stresses (such as warm water) are worse, but I don’t think from an energy loss standpoint its much worse — the problems come from the fish needing more time to recuperate and can’t orient itself during this time (unlike us, who would just lay down on the ground and *breathe*; a fish can’t do that). We’ve all had hard releases — I held a fish for 20 minutes one time (actually stopped him from swimming away a couple of times), and eventually he looked just fine, swam away and took a position behind a rock — was still there later in the day. I don’t think the energy loss hurt him one bit. I’ll second that a big-head/little-bodied fish mean there’s too many fish for the food base, and you should keep it anyways.

Ok then.  What I am hearing… Our [flyfishermen's] definition of the ethics of catch and release… "We may cause indiscriminate harm to a wild animal, so long as the animal does not normally  die as a result, in our search for happiness.  Our metric will only include mortality and  will not include incidental suffering or non-fatal injury" Or, something like that… I laugh at our free usage of the term ‘respect’ for a wild animal.  It is really, really laughable (if it weren’t so sad).   Wham !!! Set the Hook !!!! Wham, Lay the rod into it !! she’s runnin’ for the rapids…then this thoughtful ‘respectful’ release…sometimes with an accompanying little kiss on the lips.  Respect ?  I don’t think so.  Cause for self-congratulation, perhaps. TimW

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While you guys are debating C&R vs.C&K and skinny fish, and how much time landing a fish is too much time…THEY ARE BUILDING A GOLD MINE ON THE BLACFOOT RIVER IN MONTANA….and it has the potential to render all your arguments moot…

Finally the real meat of the issues. Isn’t it time we humans get a little more ,NO! a lot more involve with the issues of rectifying and push for the preservation of our current watersheds. When their all gone who will be there to make new ones? The issues may vary from state to state, but they are the sum of all the parts. Trout are a good indicator for water quality and the quality of life to which we an ultimately attached. Seems to me that a new thread needs to be started here. Our fingers are dancing on the very tools that could start a very positive movement. What do you say guys? How about it, Tim, George, and Al? On another sad note, my ISP really sucks and I only receive less than half of the news posting and feel like a mushroom on lost thread portions. If anybody felt like CC me on your postings I would sure appreciate it. — Doug Knight                           metalfab<atefaxinc.com Junk e-mail, solicitation, sales, products and services gladly accepted at $50.00 per mailing and billed directly to your ISP.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would view pure C&R as a really mean act in this situation, wouldn’t you ? No. You would not view the practice of C&R on starving fish a mean act ? Really ? You would throw a starving dog a rubber bone ? You are a mean man Mr. Tatosian, IMO. Tim, that was clearly a sarcastic remark in as short a form as I could provide, in response to this totally contrived troll of yours (which didn’t merit the response you would like to have received)… Yours is a tiresome routine – starting one thread after another all aimed at repeating your philosphy ad nauseum – and self-sanctified as being preferable to more civilized/less contentious topics of discussion… To what ends, I ask?

I’ll be happy when the popularity of the sport subsides by say, 80%.  I’ll be patting myself on the back all the way down to the deep run behind Pat’s rock, which will be devoid of people and clogged with fish. TimW

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While you guys are debating C&R vs.C&K and skinny fish, and how much time landing a fish is too much time…THEY ARE BUILDING A GOLD MINE ON THE BLACFOOT RIVER IN MONTANA….and it has the potential to render all your arguments moot… I have taken the liberty of changing the thread title for you, if you want a serious discussion of the mine possibility and its detriment. This is a different thread… TimW

OK Tim, You were reading my mind. What are we playing with here, threads, fish, or environmental action? Isn’t it time we all get involved. Where do I sign up? It’s time to give something back. Please make note to CC, my ISP really sucks. — Doug Knight                           metalfab<atefaxinc.com Junk e-mail, solicitation, sales, products and services gladly accepted at $50.00 per mailing and billed directly to your ISP.

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Tim pardon me but this is vapour ware to the nth degree. You’re expounding proifically on a hypothetical situation about which nothing is known. Fish have to dash away from predators all the time; they have energy stores that help them deal with that. Trout, steelhead and salmon go through frequent and often lengthy periods when they feed little or not at all. You’d have us believe that a "sprint around the block" followed by a fast lasting a few hours will lead to death by starvation. If you’re going to fabricate something please at least make it credible and believable. from Your Biggest fan Ralph H – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The pinnacle of our sport is catching a wild trout feeding selectively on dries. That the fish is feeding selectively speaks to the difficulties of being a fish.  It is important that the energy expended to consume an insect must not exceed the energy gained by this insects consumption. It is tough row to hoe for a fish eating this minutae.  What percentage of fish even make it to this stage ? Along comes, O.M.I. Gudd the world famous dry fly man with his 2 wt and and exact imitation.  Bingo.  Fish On.  The fight lasts 10 minutes, and the fish is going…"damned, now I gotta eat an additional 1000 midges just to get back to my fighting weight !"…well we don’t really know WHAT Mr. Brown thinks, but it would be true that he is now in an energy deficit situation…this could kill him…have you ever caught a starving fish ? Big head, tiny emaciated snake like body ? Now you tell me…how many days will it take for that fish to get to where it was before you hooked, played and released it ?  Considering that it was possibly very nearly starving when you laid that Adams out. Maybe in the unnatural tailwaters where food is abundant this is less of a problem then a freestone creek at 12,000 ft., but I would view pure C&R as a really mean act in this situation, wouldn’t you ? TimW

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The pinnacle of our sport is catching a wild trout feeding selectively on dries. That the fish is feeding selectively speaks to the difficulties of being a fish.  

A fish feeding selectively is a fish wallowing in luxury, isn’t it?  I mean, you’re more likely to find a selective fish in some rich, artificial tailwater than you are in a high-county lake or stream, aren’t you?   Along comes, O.M.I. Gudd the world famous dry fly man with his 2 wt and and exact imitation.  Bingo.  Fish On.  The fight lasts 10 minutes, and the fish is going…"damned, now I gotta eat an additional 1000 midges just to get back to my fighting weight !"…well we don’t really know WHAT Mr. Brown thinks, but it would be true that he is now in an energy deficit situation…this could kill him…have you ever caught a starving fish ? Big head, tiny emaciated snake like body ?

(I remember reading that a trout uses something like half of its stored energy in 15 seconds when it’s at full throttle.) Now you tell me…how many days will it take for that fish to get to where it was before you hooked, played and released it ?  Considering that it was possibly very nearly starving when you laid that Adams out. Maybe in the unnatural tailwaters where food is abundant this is less of a problem then a freestone creek at 12,000 ft., but I would view pure C&R as a really mean act in this situation, wouldn’t you ?

It seems like the folks fishing the rich tailwaters are more likely to be using too light of a rod for the fish that live there, so the benefit of plentiful food could be offset by the fish being played way longer than it should have been.  It may die anyway. The starving fish in the sterile alpine creek can’t be underpowered, but there is hardly any food for it to eat once it’s released. What?   If it was an overcrowded stream, you’re right.  If there are so many fish in the creek that the one you just caught is starving, kill and eat it.   That population sounds like it needs to be thinned, in my no-expert opinion.  A lot of the higher streams I’ve fished have what seem to be normal numbers of fish – they are healthy, active, and not swarming all over each other.  I’d imagine that at least some of them have native fish, and they *are* all wild fish.  There seems to be plenty of food. The only fish I’ll take out of a small, highish creek around here are brook trout or the rare brown; no cutts or rainbows.  I don’t feel bad about that, because these fish aren’t monsters and they are generally not starving.  The fight is quick and one-sided, and they are undoubtedly more stunned than exhausted when it’s over.  Of any trout, these are the ones I like to lay eyes on the most.  C&K seems like a bad idea to have catch on when it comes to these streams.   If you fish a heavier rod while practicing C&R, you release a healthier fish but probably shouldn’t call it ’sport.’  If you fish a really light, sporting rod; play the trout for ten minutes; kill, keep, and eat it, you have a fish that tastes bad. I don’t call what I do with those little cutts and redsides ’sport,’ and the brook trout I keep are delicious. The part of C&R that bugs me is hearing of 15# steelhead caught on four-weight rigs, people fishing for huge trout with two-weights, etc.   Small, alpine trout are probably bothered by C&R the least, and they are the ones that need it the most.  In my opinion. Dave DeLacey Corvallis, Or. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – TimW

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I would view pure C&R as a really mean act in this situation, wouldn’t you ?

No.

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The hypothesis goes (it isn’t even ‘theory’) that the fish becomes selective to cope with abundance. It makes it more efficient to focus om midges in Tim’s example so it doesn’t get distracted by say a sculpin on the bottom. I don’t get it.  Why would it be better for a trout to concentrate on midges and ignore a juicy sculpin, as long as it was big enough to eat one?

because the midges are abundant thr fish gains more calories than it expends by feeding exclusively on midges and ignoring the sculpin. It’s a hypothesis used to explain selectivity Also, why would the fish have to concentrate if there was a lot of food in the water?  Isn’t that where the phrase ‘easy pickins’ comes from?  You don’t mean that trout are easily confused, do you?!?

It’s not my idea. No I don’t mean they are confused. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (I remember reading that a trout uses something like half of its stored energy in 15 seconds when it’s at full throttle.) what exactly is it’s stored energy? The energy you store in your body is fat. Do you mean to say a trout burns up half it’s stored fat  swimming at full throttle for 15 seconds? Sounds proposterous. It is proposterous if you watch salmon moving up stream or jumping a falls Consider many stocks migrate hundreds of miles without feeding for months I think this whole line of reasoning falls on it’s keester. But a tip of the hat to Tim for trying. You’re right, that didn’t make any sense.  It’s the stored glycogen in the muscle that they use up so fast.  The book I just checked that in claims that the white muscle used for burst speed may take up to 18 hours to get rid of the lactic acid that results from the gas-guzzling, while the muscles used for regular, sustained swimming do it in an hour or less.   So you probably can’t compare swimming vs. fighting fish and then say that there isn’t any truth to what Tim Walker was saying. Also, salmon are making a one-way trip.  They don’t have to budget their energy, really.  I wouln’t be supprised at all to hear that salmon use more energy trying to get over a single tough falls than a typical trout does in a month of dodging predators, but the salmon probably dies sooner for doing it.

Salmon don’t always make a one way trip. Atlantics and steelhead usually return to the sea. Also salmon don’t stare to death they are genetically programed to die after spawning. Some stocks that are as sea fat as other go only a few yrds above tide water. Pacific salmon die of multiple organ failure that can’t simply be explain by starvation. Also genetically they can make the switch from salt to fresh water only once. The die off could be an adaption to transfer rich ocean nutrients to their native streams and enhance their offsprings chances for survival. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – if it were nearly starving and being caught put it at death’s door the whole stock in the stream simply wouldn’t last long. The first good drought or flood or an unusually hard winter would wipe them out. That’s true.  It’s strange that some of the more obviously-overcrowded lakes that I’ve seen are also shallow.  If any lake was going to winter-kill, it seems like they’d be the ones. Dave DeLacey Corvallis, Or. Ralph H

Ralph H – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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I would view pure C&R as a really mean act in this situation, wouldn’t you ? No.

You would not view the practice of C&R on starving fish a mean act ?  Really ? You would throw a starving dog a rubber bone ? You are a mean man Mr. Tatosian, IMO. TimW

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : That the fish is feeding selectively speaks to the difficulties of : being a fish. : A fish feeding selectively is a fish wallowing in luxury, isn’t it? I have to agree here; the arguments being made of the average fish fight being so life-threatening is kindof ridiculous. This "1/2 energy/wieght/whatever lost" being mispresented. As (I think) another poster said, think of it as a sprint. Even if you are out of shape, a sprint won’t kill you — in fact, 10 minutes later you won’t even feel the effects. Same for the trout. You use up your short-term energy — sugar in the cells — but this doesn’t effect your fat reserves or anything to any large degree. Now, a prolonged fight, and environmental stresses (such as warm water) are worse, but I don’t think from an energy loss standpoint its much worse — the problems come from the fish needing more time to recuperate and can’t orient itself during this time (unlike us, who would just lay down on the ground and *breathe*; a fish can’t do that). We’ve all had hard releases — I held a fish for 20 minutes one time (actually stopped him from swimming away a couple of times), and eventually he looked just fine, swam away and took a position behind a rock — was still there later in the day. I don’t think the energy loss hurt him one bit. I’ll second that a big-head/little-bodied fish mean there’s too many fish for the food base, and you should keep it anyways. JonCook.

While you guys are debating C&R vs.C&K and skinny fish, and how much time landing a fish is too much time…THEY ARE BUILDING A GOLD MINE ON THE BLACFOOT RIVER IN MONTANA….and it has the potential to render all your arguments moot…

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The hypothesis goes (it isn’t even ‘theory’) that the fish becomes selective to cope with abundance. It makes it more efficient to focus om midges in Tim’s example so it doesn’t get distracted by say a sculpin on the bottom.

I don’t get it.  Why would it be better for a trout to concentrate on midges and ignore a juicy sculpin, as long as it was big enough to eat one?  Also, why would the fish have to concentrate if there was a lot of food in the water?  Isn’t that where the phrase ‘easy pickins’ comes from?  You don’t mean that trout are easily confused, do you?!? (I remember reading that a trout uses something like half of its stored energy in 15 seconds when it’s at full throttle.) what exactly is it’s stored energy? The energy you store in your body is fat. Do you mean to say a trout burns up half it’s stored fat  swimming at full throttle for 15 seconds? Sounds proposterous. It is proposterous if you watch salmon moving up stream or jumping a falls Consider many stocks migrate hundreds of miles without feeding for months I think this whole line of reasoning falls on it’s keester. But a tip of the hat to Tim for trying.

You’re right, that didn’t make any sense.  It’s the stored glycogen in the muscle that they use up so fast.  The book I just checked that in claims that the white muscle used for burst speed may take up to 18 hours to get rid of the lactic acid that results from the gas-guzzling, while the muscles used for regular, sustained swimming do it in an hour or less.   So you probably can’t compare swimming vs. fighting fish and then say that there isn’t any truth to what Tim Walker was saying. Also, salmon are making a one-way trip.  They don’t have to budget their energy, really.  I wouln’t be supprised at all to hear that salmon use more energy trying to get over a single tough falls than a typical trout does in a month of dodging predators, but the salmon probably dies sooner for doing it. if it were nearly starving and being caught put it at death’s door the whole stock in the stream simply wouldn’t last long. The first good drought or flood or an unusually hard winter would wipe them out.

That’s true.  It’s strange that some of the more obviously-overcrowded lakes that I’ve seen are also shallow.  If any lake was going to winter-kill, it seems like they’d be the ones. Dave DeLacey Corvallis, Or. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ralph H

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Now you tell me…how many days will it take for that fish to get to where it was before you hooked, played and released it ?  

A guy who works in a fly shop just told me this evening about a guy who said he played a steelhead for 3 and a half hours.  I asked him how big it was and he told me the guy claimed 8 pounds.  Slightly less than a half hour a pound… Phil

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A fish feeding selectively is a fish wallowing in luxury, isn’t it?  

The hypothesis goes (it isn’t even ‘theory’) that the fish becomes selective to cope with abundance. It makes it more efficient to focus om midges in Tim’s example so it doesn’t get distracted by say a sculpin on the bottom. You’re right a starving fish is unlikley to be selective. (I remember reading that a trout uses something like half of its stored energy in 15 seconds when it’s at full throttle.)

what exactly is it’s stored energy? The energy you store in your body is fat. Do you mean to say a trout burns up half it’s stored fat  swimming at full throttle for 15 seconds? Sounds proposterous. It is proposterous if you watch salmon moving up stream or jumping a falls Consider many stocks migrate hundreds of miles without feeding for months I think this whole line of reasoning falls on it’s keester. But a tip of the hat to Tim for trying. very nearly starving when you laid that Adams out.

if it were nearly starving and being caught put it at death’s door the whole stock in the stream simply wouldn’t last long. The first good drought or flood or an unusually hard winter would wipe them out. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -It seems like the folks fishing the rich tailwaters are more likely to be using too light of a rod for the fish that live there, so the benefit of plentiful food could be offset by the fish being played way longer than it should have been.  It may die anyway. The starving fish in the sterile alpine creek can’t be underpowered, but there is hardly any food for it to eat once it’s released. What?   [snip] The part of C&R that bugs me is hearing of 15# steelhead caught on four-weight rigs, people fishing for huge trout with two-weights, etc.

This bugs me too and I think many have pushed the light tackle envelope too far, way too far. Small, alpine trout are probably bothered by C&R the least, and they are the ones that need it the most.  In my opinion. Dave DeLacey Corvallis, Or.

Ralph H

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The pinnacle of our sport is catching a wild trout feeding selectively on dries. That the fish is feeding selectively speaks to the difficulties of being a fish.  It is important that the energy expended to consume an insect must not exceed the energy gained by this insects consumption. It is tough row to hoe for a fish eating this minutae.  What percentage of fish even make it to this stage ? Along comes, O.M.I. Gudd the world famous dry fly man with his 2 wt and and exact imitation.  Bingo.  Fish On.  The fight lasts 10 minutes, and the fish is going…"damned, now I gotta eat an additional 1000 midges just to get back to my fighting weight !"…well we don’t really know WHAT Mr. Brown thinks, but it would be true that he is now in an energy deficit situation…this could kill him…have you ever caught a starving fish ? Big head, tiny emaciated snake like body ? Now you tell me…how many days will it take for that fish to get to where it was before you hooked, played and released it ?  Considering that it was possibly very nearly starving when you laid that Adams out. Maybe in the unnatural tailwaters where food is abundant this is less of a problem then a freestone creek at 12,000 ft., but I would view pure C&R as a really mean act in this situation, wouldn’t you ? TimW

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Question:

Anyone know a decent flyshop in the Berkshires…for local advice and flytying materials.

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If you are in the northern Berkshires, you might try the Smith and Morey shop on Route 2 in Charlemont.  The proprietor is a friendly guy and, along with one of his buddies, gave me some advice on the Deerfield last weekend.  The shop is a combination of hunting and fishing supplies, so the flyfishing/tying merchandise is not dazzling.  He said he would only be open on weekends after Christmas, but you can also check his main outdoor store (same name) just off of Route 2 in Shelburn Falls on the main street about a block away from the bridge crossing the Deerfield. Good luck! Rob Foster

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Question:

I’m considering buying a pair of stream cleats. Are they worthwhile ??? Better than the felt soles ??? There are a number of different types ranging from stubs that look like football cleats to long metal "V" shaped irons…is there any advantage to which type is best ??? Any info is much appreciated.

One thing you should keep in mind is that if you are wearing cleats you must be aware of where your line is .As in don’t step on your line.I have ruined many a line . The cleats will cut right into the line. Good fishin to you,and watch your step.           Lou H.

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The Surfcaster in Connecticut offers an new design in korkers that does not slip off.  ….bought a pair this past winter and have been quite pleased. DBZ

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I have a pair of the felt soled sandles that I’m not too proud of They don’t stay on the boots too well and flop around out of the water.  I have used the "V-cleats" that were on a slip-on rubber shoe…looked like the rubbers your grandpa wore over his sunday best shoes.  They worked great…would recommend them to anyone. Cleats or swimmin?, an easy decision for me Bill

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Kiene) writes: They are a little heavy and tend to come off in the water if your not careful.

They’re more than a little heavy, but if laced across the top of the boot correctly they never come off.  Back in the mid 80’s folks would lace them around the edges (old directions used to suggest that as the proper way) instead of crossing the laces like a regular pair of shoes and that’s where the problem came from.  I specifically bought mine because I fished the North Umpqua a lot, and you don’t even want to think about wading that river without some kind of cleats.  On a scale of 1 to 10 in wading difficulty, it’s a solid 9.  Even with cleats I would often end up swimming at least once a day.                                                              Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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One thing you should keep in mind is that if you are wearing cleats you must be aware of where your line is .As in don’t step on your line.I have ruined many a line . The cleats will cut right into the line.

This is true with the stream cleats that are bent aluminum bars set in rubber galoshes. The edges are real sharp when new and will cut your line in a flash.  After they’ve been distorted a bit from use they don’t eat lines quite so quickly but watch your step.  The Korkers (sandals with carbide tipped steel studs) won’t cut the line but are a lot heavier.                                                     Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

Response:

I’m considering buying a pair of stream cleats. Are they worthwhile ??? Better than the felt soles ??? There are a number of different types ranging from stubs that look like football cleats to long metal "V" shaped irons…is there any advantage to which type is best ???

I have used the original Korker sandals from Oregon.  They are a little heavy and tend to come off in the water if your not careful. They have carbide tipped,  replaceable studs and grip very well. They were made famous buy steel headers on the North Umpqua river in Oregon. The original ones had nylon laces, but they have a new model with adjustable web straps with buckles.   Dan Bailey’s Stream Cleats from Montana are rubber goulashes with aluminum grids.  They work well and slip on and off easily.  The rubber can tear and the aluminum wears out,  but the are effective on large rivers. Today, most people use wadding shoes with studded felt soles for large rivers.  They are all one piece and wear well.  Not everyone likes metal on the bottom of the wadding boots.  Some still prefer felt.

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I’ve used korkers and they’re fine- a bit expensive and heavy but they work well in very slick streams.    I dont like the extra weight, so I’ve taken to placing a couple of dozen small hex headed sheet metal screws in the boot felt.  (the exact size escapes me but they are about 3/8" long +/-)   I’ve set some in expoy but to be honest it didnt seem to make any difference.  Most of the screws will last a season before they wear off or pull out.   All things considered, its a 50 cent and five minute solution.

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   I bought a pair of "CORKERS" yes that’s the brand name. 40.00 per pair, but I love-em !!!  Never had a slip problem, and the tie right onto your existing boots. (i leave em tied right onto the boots all the time).  I bought them for fishing for steelies in the winter time up in pulaski N.Y. on the salmon river. (all the river banks are frozen big time, and They’re steel tipped, so I never slip.  Look em up, they’re worth every penny.                        Hugh

Response:

I’m considering buying a pair of stream cleats. Are they worthwhile ??? Better than the felt soles ??? There are a number of different types ranging from stubs that look like football cleats to long metal "V" shaped irons…is there any advantage to which type is best ??? Any info is much appreciated.

I fished for several years with aluminum cleated overshoes (from Dan Bailey, I believe).  Excellent traction; much better than felt.  They look really goofy, though.  I now have been using Orvis wading boots with felt soles and boron tips.  Best of all worlds and a little snugger fit overall.  Price is just about the same; the shoes are a bit more expensive but last longer (I’d rip the hell out of the overshoe).  Most importantly, with the shoes on I look like a FF poster child  :-)

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Stream cleats and spikes are incredibly effective on some rivers and streams, particularly for aggressive waders who end up needing the equivalent of four-wheel drive to get out of trouble. One piece of river etiquette that is forgotten all too often, however:  if you are floating, your guide or host would appreciate being asked whether or not it’s appropriate to wear cleats or spikes in the boat, since they can make quite a permanent mess on someone’s floorboards or non-scuff paint. As an alternative you might look at either the removable kind (sort of like shoe rubbers) or a folding wading staff. Good Luck, Peter Yoakum, Editor Flyfishers Online — Flyfishers Online at http://flyfishers.com

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I’m considering buying a pair of stream cleats. Are they worthwhile ??? Better than the felt soles ??? There are a number of different types ranging from stubs that look like football cleats to long metal "V" shaped irons…is there any advantage to which type is best ??? Any info is much appreciated.

   Depends on what you do and where you go. Cleats are hell on a drift boat or raft, useless in sand, mud or gravel and tend to trip you up (especially when they’re new and sharp).  On the other hand felts on slick grassy banks, polished granite boulders or when it’s below freezing are not much fun.    Hardened steel studs or Korkers are the best for walking around on pock marked volcanic substrate or when walking on slimy logs. For hard slick stuff like polished granite or marble, aluminum is best because it smears against the rock to provide traction where hard points skid.    -Ralph —

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Corkers for Wading Yes, they’re great but here’s a couple of tips: Put a wood screw horizontally through the corker into the heel of your wader or wading boot from each side. ( 2 on each boot, # 8 x1 1/4 " wood screw  works O.K. ) This will save replacing corkers lost in fast water. Say a prayer before descending a steep snow-covered hill, corkers are like skis on snow.

Response:

I’m considering buying a pair of stream cleats. Are they worthwhile ??? Better than the felt soles ??? There are a number of different types ranging from stubs that look like football cleats to long metal "V" shaped irons…is there any advantage to which type is best ??? Any info is much appreciated.

Response:

I’m considering buying a pair of stream cleats. Are they worthwhile ??? Better than the felt soles ??? There are a number of different types ranging from stubs that look like football cleats to long metal "V" shaped irons…is there any advantage to which type is best ??? Any info is much appreciated.

Since I’ve first worn ‘Korkers’ 15 years ago Salmon fishing..I never go into a stream without them unless it’s a sandy bottom or like that. I’ve gotten so used to being able to worry less about my footing and concentrating more on the fishing that I feel uncomfortable in the stream without them. The Korkers brand by far is the best as they use carbide caulks that outlast any of the others I’ve tried. A good investment…. Tight Lines!! JAPPLE

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Question:

I am wondering if there are any tricks to tying backing onto my reel then to my floating fly line?  It seems pretty straightforward, but I have noticed alot of talk about different fishermen’s reliance upon and use of backing. What’s the process.  Thanks for any troubleshooting tips.

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I am wondering if there are any tricks to tying backing onto my reel then to my floating fly line?  It seems pretty straightforward, but I have noticed alot of talk about different fishermen’s reliance upon and use of backing. What’s the process.  Thanks for any troubleshooting tips.

You should ask this in rec.outdoors.fishing.fly, it will likely touch off a major discussion! First off, you definitely need backing, unless you plan to spend your time catching 4" trout that are 15ft away. What you use as backing is another matter. Some guys like to lay out $$$ for custom designed fly rod backing – I prefer to use an el cheapo alternative, black dacron line. It costs about 1/4 as much as real backing and is pretty much the same thing. The backing knot is another question entirely. The folks in r.o.f.f will talk about everything from nail knots at the high end down to modified versions of a sheet bend / figure eight combination called a backing knot. Best to do some reading at the library to see what’s the best for your purposes (ie what can you be bothered tying, and how important you think it is to your type of fishing). Good luck Rod

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Question:

Aren’t they the ones that eat their own young?

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Not only will they eat their young they will also take a #28 Adams on 8X …. give it a try…. Thats how I get over cabin fever.  by the way make sure to use barbless hooks, guppies don’t seem to recover well from

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Well, I was down in Louisianna and stopped off on the side of the road at a creek.  Little minnows were swimming around on the surface.  I had some #14 hooks and some little pieces of worm.  The water was about 6 feet down from where my gf and I were standing.  We let our lines down and the minnows would grab the worm, not able to get the hook in their mouth.   They would hold onto it just enough that you could sling them out of the water.  We flicked them high enough that they went flying in the air and we would catch them in our hands.  We kept them in a bucket for some catfishing that night.  They did not seem to be harmed too much by their sudden flights into the air.  Guess its another way to catch fish.

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