Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Back when I worked for the fly shop, the guy that owned, John McLeod told me the same thing, the salmon that are born in/stay in the river have two traits, they tend to be darker and sometimes look like browns But enough like them for anyone very familiar with either to make a mistake? Well I wouldn’t put myself forth as an expert but I am very familiar with both browns and landlocked salmon, in a couple of cases I’ve had trouble telling very bright browns from landlocks. In waters that sport both atlantics and sea run browns, it can be so difficult to tell them apart that you need to check the volverine (sp?) teeth to be certain, but that’s really the opposite problem, the browns are bright like a salmon, rather than the salmon being dark like a brown. I’ve seen some of the Outlet’s ‘dark’ salmon and they do look a bit like browns, they’ve even got a slight yellowish tint, which is what I think makes most people mistake them for browns.

O.K., I see where the problem lies.  Since the discussion was about salmon born in the river it never occured to me that the browns in question were sea run.  I assumed we were talking about stream resident browns and that the salmon had coloring that matched theirs.  We have browns here that live in Lake Michigan and head up the streams only to spawn.  Having seen a few of these, I understand how one could have trouble distinguishing between them, when fresh from the lake, and salmon.  As a matter of fact, limited as my experience with them is, I’m sure I couldn’t tell them apart. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – and they taste muddy. Bearing in mind that the vocabulary of taste is woefully inadequate (and often misleading), I’d say that muddy is a term that applies to all the salmonids to one degree or another.  Don’t get me wrong, I like them myself and am particularly fond of both Atlantic and King (or Chinook) salmon, but they do have a flavor component that is definitely earthy compared to many other, and especially white fleshed, fishes. I once whacked and ate a very nice brookie from the outlet and it certainly seemed ‘muddy’ to me. My biased taste runs to brookies, to me nothing is finer as far as trout go. I dislike landlocks, browns and haven’t had a truely wild or acclimatized rainbow, only the pellet fed stockies that I fished 18 years ago in NH. I much prefer haddock, flounder and swordfish to any trout/salmon, perhaps that’s one of the reasons why I hardly ever keep a fish. I do recall having some smoked salmon in Ireland that was exceptional though. He called them "dirty" salmon. He needs to try a salmon out of the Root river in Racine, WI some time.      :) This made me chuckle. The Root river? Sounds mucky

Rather an apt name considering the focus of this discussion.  The Root is probably the most popular stream in the state for salmon fishing.  As far as I know it also the most productive…..for reasons that are a complete mystery to me.  It is nasty, as is also true of all the streams in the extreme southern Lake Michigan watershed.  Doubtless, they all ran clear 200 years ago when the native prairie plants stabilized the rich silty soil, but all that ended the day the first sodbuster arrived.  Some progress has been made in cleaning them up in the last decade or two but MUCH more needs to be done and it will never happen, land use patterns being what they are here. Some, like the Milwaukee, the Menomonee, and a few of the smaller streams will run fairly clear during extreme low water conditions but they are typically opaque.  Agricultural and urban runoff, industrial pollutants, and sewage combined with an unknowable quantity of point source pollution conspire to make eating anything caught from these waters border on suicidal and yet thousands of people do.  What’s even more perplexing is that there actually IS something to be caught and eaten. Wolfgang

Response:

I’ve seen some of the Outlet’s ‘dark’ salmon and they do look a bit like browns, they’ve even got a slight yellowish tint, which is what I think makes most people mistake them for browns.

This has been an interesting discussion for me; and since I was the one who apparently misidentified the fish, even all the more so.   By now, a week later, I’m no longer sure.   It’s my recollection that the fish I caught had the brownish coloring with the distinctive spots of a brown.   Not knowing there were no browns in the river, I had no doubt at the time that is was indeed a brown trout.   Do these small landlocks also have the spots of a brown, or is my memory going to hell? (knowing full well these are mutually exclusive positions.) Joe F.

Response:

I fished the EO last fall and caught a landlocked that very much resembled a brown in coloration. The guide explained that as the fish adapt to the river, their color changes (I guess like the so called "Black" Atlantics). I fished again this June, and all the landlocks were bright silver. HTH In all knowledge, consider the source. Jim Ray

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Great report, Joe.  One thing, however:  the brown trout was actually a land locked salmon that was born in the river.  My first trip up there I caught a couple of these strange looking fish – they looked like browns, but had salmon tails and heads.  I asked a passing guide about it and he told me they were salmon born in the river instead of in the lake.  Later, at a fly show in Wilmington, I asked a Maine Game Warden about the same thing.  He gave me the same info as the guide.  As the fish gets bigger, it loses this trait and becomes more like the rest of the landlocks.  The tail is the big give away – it is slender and more forked than a brown’s. There has been controversy on the Rapid about browns.  Some folks say they are in the river, but it is the same fish that I caught at East Outlet.  No browns in the Rapid. Glad the GRW worked.  It worked on the Rapid also, but in size 18 and with dubbing instead of larva lace. Dave

Response:

 or Gink- reaching Waldo

scott, you misspelt "gink-retching waldo." i’m a loon man…. a happy loonie. –waldo

Response:

Managed to hold onto a 12" landlock long enough to actually land one; and by 5:00, I headed back to the cabin for dinner.   I’m taking it easy; tomorrow is another day in paradise.

Fishing for landlocks in the north woods may not seem like paradise to some folks, but it’s close enough for me. Nice TR. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

This is intriguing.  Salmon bred in the river look enough like browns to fool experienced fishers and one can tell the difference only by shape and or size of head and tail?

Back when I worked for the fly shop, the guy that owned, John McLeod told me the same thing, the salmon that are born in/stay in the river have two traits, they tend to be darker and sometimes look like browns and they taste muddy. He called them "dirty" salmon. Flyfish

Response:

This is intriguing.  Salmon bred in the river look enough like browns to fool experienced fishers and one can tell the difference only by shape and or size of head and tail? Back when I worked for the fly shop, the guy that owned, John McLeod told me the same thing, the salmon that are born in/stay in the river have two traits, they tend to be darker and sometimes look like browns

But enough like them for anyone very familiar with either to make a mistake? and they taste muddy.

Bearing in mind that the vocabulary of taste is woefully inadequate (and often misleading), I’d say that muddy is a term that applies to all the salmonids to one degree or another.  Don’t get me wrong, I like them myself and am particularly fond of both Atlantic and King (or Chinook) salmon, but they do have a flavor component that is definitely earthy compared to many other, and especially white fleshed, fishes. He called them "dirty" salmon.

He needs to try a salmon out of the Root river in Racine, WI some time.      :) Wolfgang

Response:

Fishing for landlocks in the north woods may not seem like paradise to some folks, but it’s close enough for me. Nice TR.

Reminds me.  I have a reference which says that Gull Lake in southwestern Michigan (no secrets here…common knowledge) has landlock salmon in it.  Anybody here ever fished it? Wolfgang

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At the risk of revealing my appalling ignorance, what’s a GRW?

Goddamn RW

Response:

Back when I worked for the fly shop, the guy that owned, John McLeod told me the same thing, the salmon that are born in/stay in the river have two traits, they tend to be darker and sometimes look like browns But enough like them for anyone very familiar with either to make a mistake?

Well I wouldn’t put myself forth as an expert but I am very familiar with both browns and landlocked salmon, in a couple of cases I’ve had trouble telling very bright browns from landlocks. In waters that sport both atlantics and sea run browns, it can be so difficult to tell them apart that you need to check the volverine (sp?) teeth to be certain, but that’s really the opposite problem, the browns are bright like a salmon, rather than the salmon being dark like a brown. I’ve seen some of the Outlet’s ‘dark’ salmon and they do look a bit like browns, they’ve even got a slight yellowish tint, which is what I think makes most people mistake them for browns. and they taste muddy. Bearing in mind that the vocabulary of taste is woefully inadequate (and often misleading), I’d say that muddy is a term that applies to all the salmonids to one degree or another.  Don’t get me wrong, I like them myself and am particularly fond of both Atlantic and King (or Chinook) salmon, but they do have a flavor component that is definitely earthy compared to many other, and especially white fleshed, fishes.

I once whacked and ate a very nice brookie from the outlet and it certainly seemed ‘muddy’ to me. My biased taste runs to brookies, to me nothing is finer as far as trout go. I dislike landlocks, browns and haven’t had a truely wild or acclimatized rainbow, only the pellet fed stockies that I fished 18 years ago in NH. I much prefer haddock, flounder and swordfish to any trout/salmon, perhaps that’s one of the reasons why I hardly ever keep a fish. I do recall having some smoked salmon in Ireland that was exceptional though. He called them "dirty" salmon. He needs to try a salmon out of the Root river in Racine, WI some time.      :)

This made me chuckle. The Root river? Sounds mucky Wolfgang

Flyfish

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Back when I worked for the fly shop, the guy that owned, John McLeod told me the same thing, the salmon that are born in/stay in the river have two traits, they tend to be darker and sometimes look like browns But enough like them for anyone very familiar with either to make a mistake? Well I wouldn’t put myself forth as an expert but I am very familiar with both browns and landlocked salmon, in a couple of cases I’ve had trouble telling very bright browns from landlocks. In waters that sport both atlantics and sea run browns, it can be so difficult to tell them apart that you need to check the volverine (sp?) teeth to be certain, but that’s really the opposite problem, the browns are bright like a salmon, rather than the salmon being dark like a brown. I’ve seen some of the Outlet’s ‘dark’ salmon and they do look a bit like browns, they’ve even got a slight yellowish tint, which is what I think makes most people mistake them for browns.

Caught a few of them on the Rapid – very brown-like but the shape was wrong – Dave explained the difference.  Funny thing, you can catch them in the same water, surrounded by regular landlocks.   Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Back when I worked for the fly shop,

Did you work at MGFS in Greenville?  Damn fine looking lady in there the days I went in.   SWMBO noticed also. Joe F.

Response:

Enough! Enough! Black Flies be Damned! I want – NEED- to go back! Great TR. By the way, what was the flow rate? There in early june it went from 2900 cfs (almost unfishable) to 1200 cfs by the time we left 4 days later. 1200 is much better for wading. Jim Ray

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am often frustrated by my shortage of fishing time; and when an opportunity arises, the stress of impatience can take a lot of fun out of the trip.  So sitting about the cabin in the morning, I planned to take it as leisurely as possible.   The fish would be there when I got there or they wouldn’t; and my determined sloth got me to the river by 2:30 in the afternoon.  Happy kids, happy wife, relaxed daddy. I was heading down to the East Outlet, where the Kennebec is born from the waters of Moosehead Lake.  The river plunges through the dam and immediately becomes a beautiful river, flowing under a steel truss RR bridge, then highway 15, before continuing south through Skowhegan to the ocean.   A dam or two slow the river farther south, and smallies abound, but here below the East Outlet, it flows free through the beautiful, North Woods region and offers big brookies and landlocked salmon. Three other guys were standing around in the parking lot when I arrived, and in a short chat, I found that one of them was a guide, though I’m not sure if the other two were sports.   The guide took them up on the bridge to point out good runs to fish while I rigged up the nice 4 wt. I got from some guy in Germany <g.   The two sports went on upstream, and the guide came back & chatted some more, offering a tip or two on where I should go between the road & the dam.   It’s a big enough river, but I wasn’t keen on sharing the tourist pools with two other fishermen; and thanking him, I headed downriver through the forest. Over dinner in Foxboro a few nights earlier, Dave had shared the location of a deep run a ways downstream; and I managed to see my way through the black flies & mosquitoes to find my way down to the landmark he described. Nice spot.   I’ll fish here.  (In truth, I’d have fished almost anywhere to get out of the woods by then.) Reports from every source had said caddis were the bug du jour.   I scanned the air & water, but saw none, so I went straight for the GRW.   Instead of working on my swap flies, I tied up a dozen or so the day before, and I was ready.   The water level was down from the previous day, but still fast & deep, and a split shot was needed to get the fly to the bottom.   Starting at the tail end of the run, I drifted deep, covering the run, but nary a strike.   Finally snagged & lost the fly, a good time to re-evaluate what you have on.   I knew the GRW was a good fly, so I dropped down a size on both the fly (#16) & tippet (6x) and went back at it, moving upstream a bit. It didn’t take long before I hooked up to a small fish, which to my surprise turned out to be about an 8" brown.  I didn’t know there were browns up that far.   Moving up the run a bit, I was casting into a slick behind a large rock and was soon fast to a definitely larger fish.   15" of silver leapt in front of me, ran briefly out into the river, then allowed himself to be reeled in.  It was seemingly too easy when he took off again downstream. I had a lot of slack water downstream, so, chasing him wasn’t a concern. The thought of him coming off never occurred to me until he did a quick rolling jump and was gone in an instant.  Okay, that was fun. Moving up & out, I set the hook on another nice fish, who showed me his dark back as he leapt vertically to spit me out almost as fast as I hooked him. Hard to say, but probably in the 16" range again.   Short but sweet. Managed to hold onto a 12" landlock long enough to actually land one; and by 5:00, I headed back to the cabin for dinner.   I’m taking it easy; tomorrow is another day in paradise.

Response:

At the risk of revealing my appalling ignorance, what’s a GRW? I suppose it’s a gold-ribbed something or other. I could tell you, but then I’d have to kill you. <g See Louie’s submission for the 2000 ROFF fly swap. http://www.paul.goodwinweb.com/flyswap2000/grw.jpg

OK, got it. I think that’s a free-swimming caddis larva pattern. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

OK, got it. I think that’s a free-swimming caddis larva pattern.

At one of the claves LaPlac gave away a whole set of them in various stages. It was pretty cool (I just saw it, I didn’t win it). — Charlie…

Response:

Glad the GRW worked.  It worked on the Rapid also, but in size 18 and with dubbing instead of larva lace.

I was going to tie some 18’s but didn’t have the hooks when I sat down at the vise.   For 14’s, I used the larva lace you sent me a while back, but for the 16’s, the larva lace seemed too bulky & I used V-rib.   Never got around to the dubbing versions (couldn’t find the right color in the box, then dinner was ready, etc.) Joe F.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Great report, Joe.  One thing, however:  the brown trout was actually a land locked salmon that was born in the river.  My first trip up there I caught a couple of these strange looking fish – they looked like browns, but had salmon tails and heads.  I asked a passing guide about it and he told me they were salmon born in the river instead of in the lake.  Later, at a fly show in Wilmington, I asked a Maine Game Warden about the same thing.  He gave me the same info as the guide.  As the fish gets bigger, it loses this trait and becomes more like the rest of the landlocks.  The tail is the big give away – it is slender and more forked than a brown’s. There has been controversy on the Rapid about browns.  Some folks say they are in the river, but it is the same fish that I caught at East Outlet.  No browns in the Rapid.

This is intriguing.  Salmon bred in the river look enough like browns to fool experienced fishers and one can tell the difference only by shape and or size of head and tail? There are numerous references….McClane’s "Encyclopedia" comes readily to mind….which detail the differences among various strains of a given species taken from waters where they have long been established.  From what I’ve seen of such illustrations it seems that some of the differences among and between such strains can be greater than what you’ve described above. Makes me wonder just how closely related the land locked salmon and the brown trout are.  Is this a missed opportunity for the lumpers and splitters to thump on one another? Wolfgang

Response:

OK, got it. I think that’s a free-swimming caddis larva pattern.

BTW, while doing some nymph collecting a week or so ago I found green free-swimming caddis larva in my homewater. I had no idea they were there — I’d just assumed that all the caddis larva were of the cased variety, which are numerous. I’m going to have to try some GRWs. I’ve noticed that some fish I keep have stomachs full of what I can only describe as "green goo." I wonder if it’s GRWs? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

I am often frustrated by my shortage of fishing time; and when an opportunity arises, the stress of impatience can take a lot of fun out of the trip.  So sitting about the cabin in the morning, I planned to take it as leisurely as possible.   The fish would be there when I got there or they wouldn’t; and my determined sloth got me to the river by 2:30 in the afternoon.  Happy kids, happy wife, relaxed daddy. I was heading down to the East Outlet, where the Kennebec is born from the waters of Moosehead Lake.  The river plunges through the dam and immediately becomes a beautiful river, flowing under a steel truss RR bridge, then highway 15, before continuing south through Skowhegan to the ocean.   A dam or two slow the river farther south, and smallies abound, but here below the East Outlet, it flows free through the beautiful, North Woods region and offers big brookies and landlocked salmon. Three other guys were standing around in the parking lot when I arrived, and in a short chat, I found that one of them was a guide, though I’m not sure if the other two were sports.   The guide took them up on the bridge to point out good runs to fish while I rigged up the nice 4 wt. I got from some guy in Germany <g.   The two sports went on upstream, and the guide came back & chatted some more, offering a tip or two on where I should go between the road & the dam.   It’s a big enough river, but I wasn’t keen on sharing the tourist pools with two other fishermen; and thanking him, I headed downriver through the forest. Over dinner in Foxboro a few nights earlier, Dave had shared the location of a deep run a ways downstream; and I managed to see my way through the black flies & mosquitoes to find my way down to the landmark he described.   Nice spot.   I’ll fish here.  (In truth, I’d have fished almost anywhere to get out of the woods by then.) Reports from every source had said caddis were the bug du jour.   I scanned the air & water, but saw none, so I went straight for the GRW.   Instead of working on my swap flies, I tied up a dozen or so the day before, and I was ready.   The water level was down from the previous day, but still fast & deep, and a split shot was needed to get the fly to the bottom.   Starting at the tail end of the run, I drifted deep, covering the run, but nary a strike.   Finally snagged & lost the fly, a good time to re-evaluate what you have on.   I knew the GRW was a good fly, so I dropped down a size on both the fly (#16) & tippet (6x) and went back at it, moving upstream a bit. It didn’t take long before I hooked up to a small fish, which to my surprise turned out to be about an 8" brown.  I didn’t know there were browns up that far.   Moving up the run a bit, I was casting into a slick behind a large rock and was soon fast to a definitely larger fish.   15" of silver leapt in front of me, ran briefly out into the river, then allowed himself to be reeled in.  It was seemingly too easy when he took off again downstream.   I had a lot of slack water downstream, so, chasing him wasn’t a concern.  The thought of him coming off never occurred to me until he did a quick rolling jump and was gone in an instant.  Okay, that was fun. Moving up & out, I set the hook on another nice fish, who showed me his dark back as he leapt vertically to spit me out almost as fast as I hooked him. Hard to say, but probably in the 16" range again.   Short but sweet. Managed to hold onto a 12" landlock long enough to actually land one; and by 5:00, I headed back to the cabin for dinner.   I’m taking it easy; tomorrow is another day in paradise.

Response:

At the risk of revealing my appalling ignorance, what’s a GRW? I suppose it’s a gold-ribbed something or other.

Green rock worm? — Charlie…

Response:

Great report, Joe.  One thing, however:  the brown trout was actually a land locked salmon that was born in the river.  My first trip up there I caught a couple of these strange looking fish – they looked like browns, but had salmon tails and heads.  I asked a passing guide about it and he told me they were salmon born in the river instead of in the lake.  Later, at a fly show in Wilmington, I asked a Maine Game Warden about the same thing.  He gave me the same info as the guide.  As the fish gets bigger, it loses this trait and becomes more like the rest of the landlocks.  The tail is the big give away – it is slender and more forked than a brown’s. There has been controversy on the Rapid about browns.  Some folks say they are in the river, but it is the same fish that I caught at East Outlet.  No browns in the Rapid.   Glad the GRW worked.  It worked on the Rapid also, but in size 18 and with dubbing instead of larva lace.   Dave

Response:

By the way, what was the flow rate? There in early june it went from 2900 cfs (almost unfishable) to 1200 cfs by the time we left 4 days later. 1200 is much better for wading.

I confess I don’t have the numbers.  The guide with whom I chatted mentioned them, but I don’t remember.   I believe it had been over 2,000 the previous day, but was well under that the days I fished there.   All I can say is that the river was very wadeable, and I was able to reach spots in the center that would probably be suicidal at higher flows. Joe F.

Response:

Reports from every source had said caddis were the bug du jour.   I scanned the air & water, but saw none, so I went straight for the GRW. At the risk of revealing my appalling ignorance, what’s a GRW? I suppose it’s a gold-ribbed something or other.

My guess is green rock worm, but it might be great rice wine, or Gink- reaching Waldo Scott

Response:

Reports from every source had said caddis were the bug du jour.   I scanned the air & water, but saw none, so I went straight for the GRW.  

At the risk of revealing my appalling ignorance, what’s a GRW? I suppose it’s a gold-ribbed something or other. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

At the risk of revealing my appalling ignorance, what’s a GRW? I suppose it’s a gold-ribbed something or other.

I could tell you, but then I’d have to kill you. <g See Louie’s submission for the 2000 ROFF fly swap. http://www.paul.goodwinweb.com/flyswap2000/grw.jpg Joe F.

Response:

Question:

I got the Champion today and had a tournament tonight, so my first ride was blasting out of the gates as my number was called.  Not a pretty sight.  I punch it and the jumped on plane then cavitated and sunk a$s end into the water. Never had a boat with a hydrofoil on it before, is this common? Ok, I eased it onto plane trimmed up the motor boat and away we go.  Get to the spot I want to start at, ok, how do I get the troll motor in the water (Its an Autopilot with cordless foot pedal and I never had one of these either).  So I start pushing buttons but nothing is happening.  So I kick the motor and it pops into the water.  Ok, now how do I steer this thing! Ok, the pedal doesn’t rock forward or backwards but it does rock side to side and the motor turns.  Has a rocker switch for continuous and another rocker switch for intermittent.  Ok, by this time I am ready to drift right into someone’s dock.  This non-cable troll motor is actually easier to use once you get use to it (but it took me about 2 hours to get fully adjusted to using it).  But in the mean time, I look at all the electronics.  I have a Lowrance X5 on the console, a Lowrance 2260 Flasher on the bow and a 400TX Hummingbird LCD.  Of course I never had any of these units either so I’m trying to learn them on the fly as I’m fishing in a tournament. I have made enough noise in this area that I decide to move to my next area. Ok, how do I get the troll motor up?  Grab the head and pull it and it turns and stores itself away.  Trim the motor down, Punch it, the boat pops out of the water instantly – cavitates and sinks as$ end into water (is this caused by that hydro foil?).  Ease it up onto plane and away I go, trim up the motor and I’m flying.  The steering is a little stiffer than I’m use to and I have to fight it to make a left.  Turns right on a dime.  Handles rough water very nice. — Craig Baugher Belleville, Michigan Website: http://gl3loomis.home.att.net/

Response:

Craig, Take that stupid hydrofoil p.o.s. off that boat, it doesn’t need it.  Please email me with specifics on Model, motor, HP, prop etc.  We’ll get that rig lined out right for you.  Every Champion made should have a 3 second hole shot without some barnyard hardware hanging off of it. Pat

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I got the Champion today and had a tournament tonight, so my first ride was blasting out of the gates as my number was called.  Not a pretty sight.  I punch it and the jumped on plane then cavitated and sunk a$s end into the water. Never had a boat with a hydrofoil on it before, is this common? Ok, I eased it onto plane trimmed up the motor boat and away we go.  Get to the spot I want to start at, ok, how do I get the troll motor in the water (Its an Autopilot with cordless foot pedal and I never had one of these either).  So I start pushing buttons but nothing is happening.  So I kick the motor and it pops into the water.  Ok, now how do I steer this thing! Ok, the pedal doesn’t rock forward or backwards but it does rock side to side and the motor turns.  Has a rocker switch for continuous and another rocker switch for intermittent.  Ok, by this time I am ready to drift right into someone’s dock.  This non-cable troll motor is actually easier to use once you get use to it (but it took me about 2 hours to get fully adjusted to using it).  But in the mean time, I look at all the electronics.  I have a Lowrance X5 on the console, a Lowrance 2260 Flasher on the bow and a 400TX Hummingbird LCD.  Of course I never had any of these units either so I’m trying to learn them on the fly as I’m fishing in a tournament. I have made enough noise in this area that I decide to move to my next area. Ok, how do I get the troll motor up?  Grab the head and pull it and it turns and stores itself away.  Trim the motor down, Punch it, the boat pops out of the water instantly – cavitates and sinks as$ end into water (is this caused by that hydro foil?).  Ease it up onto plane and away I go, trim up the motor and I’m flying.  The steering is a little stiffer than I’m use to and I have to fight it to make a left.  Turns right on a dime.  Handles rough water very nice. — Craig Baugher Belleville, Michigan Website: http://gl3loomis.home.att.net/

Response:

First off.. WOW!! NICE RIG!! I am *very* envious of you .  From what I know, and it ain’t alot mind you, that sinking problem doesn’t sound right. I would recommend taking that Hydrofoil off, as I don’t know the specifics of your boat, but I’m pretty sure it doesn’t need it.  I’ve seen a Champion with a 150 Johnson do a holeshot in the time it took me to go to full throttle!  Maybe try playing with your trim on your holeshot some, when the ass end starts heading into the water, start trimming your motor in, that may help.   Just out of curiosity, what model/HP is it? Good luck, and good fishin’!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I got the Champion today and had a tournament tonight, so my first ride was blasting out of the gates as my number was called.  Not a pretty sight.  I punch it and the jumped on plane then cavitated and sunk a$s end into the water. Never had a boat with a hydrofoil on it before, is this common? Ok, I eased it onto plane trimmed up the motor boat and away we go.  Get to the spot I want to start at, ok, how do I get the troll motor in the water (Its an Autopilot with cordless foot pedal and I never had one of these either).  So I start pushing buttons but nothing is happening.  So I kick the motor and it pops into the water.  Ok, now how do I steer this thing! Ok, the pedal doesn’t rock forward or backwards but it does rock side to side and the motor turns.  Has a rocker switch for continuous and another rocker switch for intermittent.  Ok, by this time I am ready to drift right into someone’s dock.  This non-cable troll motor is actually easier to use once you get use to it (but it took me about 2 hours to get fully adjusted to using it).  But in the mean time, I look at all the electronics.  I have a Lowrance X5 on the console, a Lowrance 2260 Flasher on the bow and a 400TX Hummingbird LCD.  Of course I never had any of these units either so I’m trying to learn them on the fly as I’m fishing in a tournament. I have made enough noise in this area that I decide to move to my next area. Ok, how do I get the troll motor up?  Grab the head and pull it and it turns and stores itself away.  Trim the motor down, Punch it, the boat pops out of the water instantly – cavitates and sinks as$ end into water (is this caused by that hydro foil?).  Ease it up onto plane and away I go, trim up the motor and I’m flying.  The steering is a little stiffer than I’m use to and I have to fight it to make a left.  Turns right on a dime.  Handles rough water very nice. — Craig Baugher Belleville, Michigan Website: http://gl3loomis.home.att.net/

Response:

ROFL! Wish all of my competition was so prepared! We’ve all been there. Want to get the new toys goin ASAP. You didn’t mention if you also got plauged with the new boat jinx? Any fish? Dan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I got the Champion today and had a tournament tonight, so my first ride was blasting out of the gates as my number was called.  Not a pretty sight.  I punch it and the jumped on plane then cavitated and sunk a$s end into the water. Never had a boat with a hydrofoil on it before, is this common? Ok, I eased it onto plane trimmed up the motor boat and away we go.  Get to the spot I want to start at, ok, how do I get the troll motor in the water (Its an Autopilot with cordless foot pedal and I never had one of these either).  So I start pushing buttons but nothing is happening.  So I kick the motor and it pops into the water.  Ok, now how do I steer this thing! Ok, the pedal doesn’t rock forward or backwards but it does rock side to side and the motor turns.  Has a rocker switch for continuous and another rocker switch for intermittent.  Ok, by this time I am ready to drift right into someone’s dock.  This non-cable troll motor is actually easier to use once you get use to it (but it took me about 2 hours to get fully adjusted to using it).  But in the mean time, I look at all the electronics.  I have a Lowrance X5 on the console, a Lowrance 2260 Flasher on the bow and a 400TX Hummingbird LCD.  Of course I never had any of these units either so I’m trying to learn them on the fly as I’m fishing in a tournament. I have made enough noise in this area that I decide to move to my next area. Ok, how do I get the troll motor up?  Grab the head and pull it and it turns and stores itself away.  Trim the motor down, Punch it, the boat pops out of the water instantly – cavitates and sinks as$ end into water (is this caused by that hydro foil?).  Ease it up onto plane and away I go, trim up the motor and I’m flying.  The steering is a little stiffer than I’m use to and I have to fight it to make a left.  Turns right on a dime.  Handles rough water very nice. — Craig Baugher Belleville, Michigan Website: http://gl3loomis.home.att.net/

Response:

Kill the hydrofoil Craig, it’s keeping you down.  You’ll see the difference instantly.  Why would anyone put that stupid thing on the Champion? Warren2

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I got the Champion today and had a tournament tonight, so my first ride was blasting out of the gates as my number was called.  Not a pretty sight.  I punch it and the jumped on plane then cavitated and sunk a$s end into the water. Never had a boat with a hydrofoil on it before, is this common? Ok, I eased it onto plane trimmed up the motor boat and away we go.  Get to the spot I want to start at, ok, how do I get the troll motor in the water (Its an Autopilot with cordless foot pedal and I never had one of these either).  So I start pushing buttons but nothing is happening.  So I kick the motor and it pops into the water.  Ok, now how do I steer this thing! Ok, the pedal doesn’t rock forward or backwards but it does rock side to side and the motor turns.  Has a rocker switch for continuous and another rocker switch for intermittent.  Ok, by this time I am ready to drift right into someone’s dock.  This non-cable troll motor is actually easier to use once you get use to it (but it took me about 2 hours to get fully adjusted to using it).  But in the mean time, I look at all the electronics.  I have a Lowrance X5 on the console, a Lowrance 2260 Flasher on the bow and a 400TX Hummingbird LCD.  Of course I never had any of these units either so I’m trying to learn them on the fly as I’m fishing in a tournament. I have made enough noise in this area that I decide to move to my next area. Ok, how do I get the troll motor up?  Grab the head and pull it and it turns and stores itself away.  Trim the motor down, Punch it, the boat pops out of the water instantly – cavitates and sinks as$ end into water (is this caused by that hydro foil?).  Ease it up onto plane and away I go, trim up the motor and I’m flying.  The steering is a little stiffer than I’m use to and I have to fight it to make a left.  Turns right on a dime.  Handles rough water very nice. — Craig Baugher Belleville, Michigan Website: http://gl3loomis.home.att.net/

Response:

Did you catch any fish? Lakeland Florida

Response:

If I was fishing a Musky tournament I would have won.  But not one bass, not even a dink! — Craig Baugher Belleville, Michigan Website: http://gl3loomis.home.att.net/

Response:

Question:

attend the clave at that time of the year. It’s *the* busy season for me. Tearfully, please scrub my name from the list….. Walt Sorry th hear that you won’t be able to attend due to work. Please don’t forget to send your lovely wife to represent the Winter family. Big Dale

how the hell did wayno get on to yer machine bd? waldo

Response:

attend the clave at that time of the year. It’s *the* busy season for me. Tearfully, please scrub my name from the list….. Walt

Sorry th hear that you won’t be able to attend due to work. Please don’t forget to send your lovely wife to represent the Winter family. Big Dale

Response:

Sorry th hear that you won’t be able to attend due to work. Please don’t forget to send your lovely wife to represent the Winter family. Big Dale

And Big Dale being the consumate Southern Gentleman that he is will be sure Marie does not lack in frozen alcoholic concoctions with paper umbrellas and all manor of Cajun inspired culinary contrivances. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

1.  Likely dates and number (Wife, SO, kids, etc.) of attendance.

Just me and the dates you suggest, I will be there. 2.  Desired "target" (Fresh, Salt, Both, Whatever’s there – also, indicate any interest in "bluewater" offshore game fishing.)

I would love both fresh and salt water, but I have not salt water gear….ummm honey, Richard wants to talk with you…Would it be possible to rent salt water fly equipment or would my 7 weight and old Pflueger work OK? I could get the maid to rinse it out each night for me. 3.  If you wish assistance on travel, let me know your location and nearby airports (or ones you can live with).

My closest airport is Portland, Oregon PDX… 4.  Contact information.

If I die, send my ashes to my current spouse of 26 years at: (360) 944-7601 5.  Where you prefer to stay if you want assistance in this area.

A dirt cheap hotel/motel would be great, but not rented by the hour if you know what I mean… As to where we all go, I think you should decide, Oh Clavemaster.  Besides I don’t speak the local language anyway, I will need an interpretor.  How do you say "No Budweiser, por favor" in the local tongue. I would love a budget suggestion for motel, car rental (do I need one?), licenses, equipment rental (if applicable), stuff like that… Chris Fanning

Response:

The current name is: Crawlin’ in N’Awlins 2000: Toasted on the Coast My suggestions for the name: Mardi Clave Clavi gra

The Fat Clave?  Er, is that in Kilobrandos?  <G  I suspect some atttendees might not like that…. Clave Slogan: "Show us your tips!"

Now that is good!  I like it…. Clave Mission Statement: "Sure, we could have chosen any number of world-renowned fly fishing venues, but getting smashed in the Quarter is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity."

Or I could just rewrite "Tubthumper"… "We’ll be drinkin’ And some fishin’ But mainly drinkin’ We’ll fall down, but we’ll get up again, Ain’t no one gonna keep us down…" Wayne Harrison has kindy offered to serve as a "Co-ClaveMeister," This does not suprise me.

It so unnerved me I said yes…<G.  Seriously, as I had no experience and limited time, his help is appreciated.  Plus, it gives me a scapegoat…<G. TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text —Steve    2025

Response:

Richard, Upon reflection, sadly, thar ain’t no way in hades that I can attend the clave at that time of the year. It’s *the* busy season for me. Tearfully, please scrub my name from the list….. Walt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As it appears this is developing into a shore ’nuff clave, here are some further details.  I will be gathering further info, such as specifics on hotels, fishing and general info websites, etc. this week and will keep y’all informed. The current name is: Crawlin’ in N’Awlins 2000: Toasted on the Coast but suggestions are welcome…<G. The dates will be from basically Dec. 1, 2000 until December 8, 2000. The locations will be New Orleans, LA and Biloxi/Gulfport, MS.  Wayne Harrison has kindy offred to serve as a "Co-ClaveMeister," and we are asking all interest parties who have not yet done so to email me with the following infomation: 1.  Likely dates and number (Wife, SO, kids, etc.) of attendance. 2.  Desired "target" (Fresh, Salt, Both, Whatever’s there – also, indicate any interest in "bluewater" offshore game fishing.) 3.  If you wish assistance on travel, let me know your location and nearby airports (or ones you can live with). 4.  Contact information. 5.  Where you prefer to stay if you want assistance in this area.  Those wishing to camp on our land may do so, but there will likely be no plumbed water or electric hookups – more on this later – if you wish to camp, PLEASE let me know ASAP.  Of course, there are many public campgrounds available, and if we have campers interested and need help here, let me know.  Also, if you have budgetary concerns, let me know, and I’ll keep that in mind with recommendations. I had originally thought about half the time in the NO area, and half on the MS coast, with a possible side trip to AL, but the distances are such that it is possible for one to stay in either location and participate (about 1.5 hr. from NO to Gulf Coast) in many of the activities. There are several charter airline companies that offer discount packages to the MS Coast, and several casinos offer them as well, with the Grand Biloxi – Grand Gulfport and Beau Rivage likely offering the most.  I will have more info on this as well. Another welcome addition is the participation of the Mississippi Coast Fly Fishers.  I have talked to their President, and we will work together to plan at least some group activities.  This would allow a larger circle of potential new friends, and attendees to have access to local guides and boats. These are the people I am aware of currently expressing an interest.  If you are interested and missing, or added in error, please email me. Walt Winter Wayne Harrison Jeff Miller Tom Brown John Lever (LEEver) Charlie Choc Chris Fanning Frank Reid ? Big Dale ? Those with question marks have expressed an interest via post, but I have not received an email.  Please let me know… TC, R

– Walter G. Winter Ezflyfish.com:  http://www.ezflyfish.com Blue Ridge Book Gallery: http://www.crosswinds.net/~brbg/books/brbg-2.html

Response:

The current name is: Crawlin’ in N’Awlins 2000: Toasted on the Coast

My suggestions for the name: Mardi Clave Clavi gra Clave Slogan: "Show us your rods!!" or "Show us your tips!" Clave Mission Statement: "Sure, we could have chosen any number of world-renowned fly fishing venues, but getting smashed in the Quarter is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity." Wayne Harrison has kindy offered to serve as a "Co-ClaveMeister,"

This does not suprise me. –Steve    2025

Response:

As it appears this is developing into a shore ’nuff clave, here are some further details.  I will be gathering further info, such as specifics on hotels, fishing and general info websites, etc. this week and will keep y’all informed. The current name is: Crawlin’ in N’Awlins 2000: Toasted on the Coast but suggestions are welcome…<G. The dates will be from basically Dec. 1, 2000 until December 8, 2000. The locations will be New Orleans, LA and Biloxi/Gulfport, MS.  Wayne Harrison has kindy offred to serve as a "Co-ClaveMeister," and we are asking all interest parties who have not yet done so to email me with the following infomation: 1.  Likely dates and number (Wife, SO, kids, etc.) of attendance. 2.  Desired "target" (Fresh, Salt, Both, Whatever’s there – also, indicate any interest in "bluewater" offshore game fishing.) 3.  If you wish assistance on travel, let me know your location and nearby airports (or ones you can live with). 4.  Contact information. 5.  Where you prefer to stay if you want assistance in this area.  Those wishing to camp on our land may do so, but there will likely be no plumbed water or electric hookups – more on this later – if you wish to camp, PLEASE let me know ASAP.  Of course, there are many public campgrounds available, and if we have campers interested and need help here, let me know.  Also, if you have budgetary concerns, let me know, and I’ll keep that in mind with recommendations. I had originally thought about half the time in the NO area, and half on the MS coast, with a possible side trip to AL, but the distances are such that it is possible for one to stay in either location and participate (about 1.5 hr. from NO to Gulf Coast) in many of the activities. There are several charter airline companies that offer discount packages to the MS Coast, and several casinos offer them as well, with the Grand Biloxi – Grand Gulfport and Beau Rivage likely offering the most.  I will have more info on this as well. Another welcome addition is the participation of the Mississippi Coast Fly Fishers.  I have talked to their President, and we will work together to plan at least some group activities.  This would allow a larger circle of potential new friends, and attendees to have access to local guides and boats. These are the people I am aware of currently expressing an interest.  If you are interested and missing, or added in error, please email me. Walt Winter Wayne Harrison Jeff Miller Tom Brown John Lever (LEEver) Charlie Choc Chris Fanning Frank Reid ? Big Dale ? Those with question marks have expressed an interest via post, but I have not received an email.  Please let me know… TC, R

Response:

Question:

Anyone know why this wonderful show is no longer carried by the "Toronto Sports Network" (TSN). I think one would be hard pressed to find a better show in the genre and I am sooo sick of the current offerings, really almost totally void of any quality fly fishing programs – I think if I see Henry and Italio again I’m going to take hostages! You have to wonder that if the CRTC was abolished tommorrow, most of the fishing shows currently we are forced to watch would not last one season. Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Anyone know why this wonderful show is no longer carried by the "Toronto Sports Network" (TSN). I think one would be hard pressed to find a better show in the genre and I am sooo sick of the current offerings, really almost totally void of any quality fly fishing programs – I think if I see Henry and Italio again I’m going to take hostages! You have to wonder that if the CRTC was abolished tommorrow, most of the fishing shows currently we are forced to watch would not last one season.

Bill Ya, the show just disappeared off the tube and I haven’t seen a trace of it.  Speaking of hostages and H & I, these shows are total hostages of the sponsors, they have to work in the product constantly to the point that the show is a 30 minute commercial.  IBFF never once mentioned the product and concentrated on fishing, maybe that was their downfall? Peter

Response:

The show was finded by OLF and was not renewed after it’s second season was completed last year. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone know why this wonderful show is no longer carried by the "Toronto Sports Network" (TSN). I think one would be hard pressed to find a better show in the genre and I am sooo sick of the current offerings, really almost totally void of any quality fly fishing programs – I think if I see Henry and Italio again I’m going to take hostages! You have to wonder that if the CRTC was abolished tommorrow, most of the fishing shows currently we are forced to watch would not last one season. Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Question:

Hi I

Question:

_______ I spent so much money today . . . buying the final Bastard Assembly Line Items, I don’t know how MUCH the Certified Check was for, but just the ink on it weighted 3 pounds.  (From what Gladys says)  The postage to send it Priority Mail cost her $22! I do know this.  Bastards are going to be worth every bit of $1800 – $2400 dollars right out of the starting blocks.  That I’m crazy enough to offer them for $300 as an introductory challenge to the world of fly fishing, does NOT mean I’m forced to hold these prices forever. Why don’t you guys move the conclave to here and help me build your fly rods? Today it is a steady, cold, spring rain.  My fax machine blew up.  Had to buy a new one.  Just now finished hooking it up. This was AFTER we mailed that BIG check. See your Grand American & Bastard Updates.  Order a reel with that Bastard Beauty that you have coming.  You only live once.  This is what a lot of you are doing. Visit: http://www.gink.com I’m looking for a good golf ball wax for this one golf ball I have.  Any suggestions Walt?  It is, by the way, beginning to look its age.  I’ve only played 112 rounds of golf with it.  Wayne will make it 113 which will be his spook number.  Possibly we should write a book about this one.  "How to Play With One Ball," by F. Burywood?  Forward by:  Wayne Harrison? Mr. G.

Response:

_______ I spe I’m looking for a good golf ball wax for this one golf ball I have.  Any suggestions Walt?  It is, by the way, beginning to look its age.  I’ve only played 112 rounds of golf with it.  Wayne will make it 113 which will be his spook number.  Possibly we should write a book about this one.  "How to Play With One Ball," by F. Burywood?  Forward by:  Wayne Harrison? Mr. G.

 George…you’re askin the wrong guy. I lose more damn balls than a schizoid squirel loses nuts. Hell, last time out I lost 18 damn balls in one round. I’d smack my tee shot and lose sight of the dang thing. After ’bout 4 hours of this crap I headed for the bar.  About 15 minutes later this guy walked in with his wife and gave me my damn 18 titleists back. He said, it’s proper golf ettiquette to remove the ball from the holes after you sink ‘em. Go figure. Waldo —          The Blue Ridge Book Gallery      P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604       http://www.mercury.net/~wgwinter to view our ongoing auctions at Ebay, click below… http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=blue…

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – _______ I spe I’m looking for a good golf ball wax for this one golf ball I have.  Any suggestions Walt?  It is, by the way, beginning to look its age.  I’ve only played 112 rounds of golf with it.  Wayne will make it 113 which will be his spook number.  Possibly we should write a book about this one.  "How to Play With One Ball," by F. Burywood?  Forward by:  Wayne Harrison? Mr. G.  George…you’re askin the wrong guy. I lose more damn balls than a schizoid squirel loses nuts. Hell, last time out I lost 18 damn balls in one round. I’d smack my tee shot and lose sight of the dang thing. After ’bout 4 hours of this crap I headed for the bar.  About 15 minutes later this guy walked in with his wife and gave me my damn 18 titleists back. He said, it’s proper golf ettiquette to remove the ball from the holes after you sink ‘em. Go figure. Waldo

Mr.  G.

Response:

Question:

I’m looking for a fresh water fly fishing buddy.  I live in Fairfax county.

Response:

OK weevee66.  You wanna fish for trout and smallmouth or are shad, carp, largemouth, catfish and other trash fish your main quarry?  When were you born and what is your real name?  Many of us posted brief Bios awhile back. Care to do the same?  Send me a private e-mail with a detailed listing of all your best secret fishing holes and we will talk.  I’m just outside of Fredericksburg. Wayne To fish is human…to release divine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m looking for a fresh water fly fishing buddy.  I live in Fairfax county.

Response:

Question:

One of my favorite fishing spots has been lost forever due to trash left by other fisherman.

 There’s an area in Utah where I’ve fished for years, with my Grandpa, and dad.. This is just a farmers field, where the Weber river cuts off, but really good fishing…  The owner started charging 10$ per, due to garbage left by others.. It seems that those who were littering don’t feel like paying, so it’s clean now.. But still costs… And I skipped ahead.. I agree, I did get the main point… My dad’s ALWAYS taught us to leave the areas we go cleaner than when we got there…

Response:

Hey wake up,,, most states have these rules.  This IS why beer cans are tossed over…… why carry around evidence.  In Illinois it is that way……. Texas is apparently still civilized. kw – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you pick up someone’s beer cans, then you could get arrested for suspicion of having consumed alcohol on the water and that is likely why the cans are in the water in the first place….. Well, I live in Texas USA not in Canada.. There are no laws here in Texas which govern the amount of beer cans you have in possesion as long as you are not boating intoxicated…So there is NO excuse for littering our waters at all!!! I have witnessed guides in Canada sinking cans in the lakes as soon as the beer is consumed for just this reason. Well, if this is true then good luck to the future Canadian fishermen because there wont be any clean fishing areas left & that is very sad….    .  +  * _    *   + .  *   + .      . *    )O/(     *    .  *   + .                                        . + . . (o o)     + .  *   + .   . * .         . *.  /._. ***STAR*** ~ .                                             + .  ~~~  . * . +

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey wake up,,, most states have these rules.  This IS why beer cans are tossed over…… why carry around evidence.  In Illinois it is that way……. Texas is apparently still civilized. kw If you pick up someone’s beer cans, then you could get arrested for suspicion of having consumed alcohol on the water and that is likely why the cans are in the water in the first place….. Well, I live in Texas USA not in Canada.. There are no laws here in Texas which govern the amount of beer cans you have in possesion as long as you are not boating intoxicated…So there is NO excuse for littering our waters at all!!! I have witnessed guides in Canada sinking cans in the lakes as soon as the beer is consumed for just this reason. Well, if this is true then good luck to the future Canadian fishermen because there wont be any clean fishing areas left & that is very sad….    .  +  * _    *   + .  *   + .    . *    )O/(     *    .  *   + .  . + . . (o o)     + .  *   + .   . * .     . *.  /._. ***STAR*** ~ .     + .  ~~~  . * . +

bullshit……. canadian take more pride in their waters than most ever visit the great white north????? well youcan still drink the water out of most of the lakes and rivers there….. as for polluters.. maybe we should look more at the american mine companies in northern ontario for what is really polluting our waters?//

Response:

I have picked up other people’s garbage numerous times!! It’s just pure outright laziness!!!! One of my favorite fishing spots has been lost forever due to trash left by other fisherman. The landowner even posted signs warning people that he would close the area if the littering continued. The next signs he put up were " No Trespassing- Violaters will be Prosecuted". I have talked to him and tried to get permission to fish. His response " blame it on your fellow fisherman".

   I was out paddling a canoe this past spring looking for spawning grounds, saw a few beds, also many sunken beer cans. Really sucks.

Response:

Cutam281 Writes: There are alot of lazy ass people whom continue to carelessly polute our rivers & lakes…I have picked up other people’s garbage numerous times!! It’s just pure outright laziness!!!!

KEW Writes: you could get arrested forsuspicion of having consumed alcohol on the water and that is likely why the cans are in the water in the first place….. I have witnessed guides in Canada sinking cans in the lakes as soon as the beer is consumed for just this reason. kw

Cutam281 Writes: Well, I live in Texas USA not in Canada.. There are no laws here in Texas which govern the amount of beer cans you have in possesion as long as you are not boating intoxicated…So there is NO excuse for littering our waters at all!!! I have witnessed guides in Canada sinking cans in the lakes as soon as the beer is consumed for just this reason. Well, if this is true then good luck to the future Canadian fishermen because there wont be any clean fishing areas left & that is very sad….

KEW Writes: Hey wake up,,, most states have these rules.  This IS why beer cans are tossed over…… why carry around evidence.  In Illinois it is that way……. Texas is apparently still civilized. kw

NO!! You wake up "KEW"!!!   The way you keep comming up with excuse after excuse to sink beer cans leads me to believe that YOU are most likely one of those whom do the sinking… If the laws in Illinois and elsewhere are strict on beer being comsumed while on water, then you and others should find another beverage to drink while boating and obey your state laws!!  If you must have your alcohol then wait till you get back on dry land & drink…As I said, "There is NO excuse for littering our water AT ALL!!!!    .  +  * _    *   + .  *   + .      . *    )O/(     *    .  *   + .                                            . + . . (o o)     + .  *   + .   . * .         . *.  /._. ***STAR*** ~ .                                             + .  ~~~  . * . +

Response:

bullshit……. canadian take more pride in their waters than most ever visit the great white north????? well youcan still drink the water out of most of the lakes and rivers there….. as for polluters.. maybe we should look more at the american mine companies in northern ontario for what is really polluting our waters?//

Hey Mark, Try telling this to "KEW"… He seems to have accused Canadian guides of sinking beer cans… Hey KEW, Are you sure you witnessed them sinking the cans?? Maybe what you actually saw was the guide pulling some sunken cans OUT of the water.. Hahahahahaha!!!!!! ~    .  +  * _    *   + .  *   + .      . *    )O/(     *    .  *   + .                                            . + . . (o o)     + .  *   + .   . * .         . *.  /._. ***STAR*** ~ .                                             + .  ~~~  . * . +

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – NO!! You wake up "KEW"!!!   The way you keep comming up with excuse after excuse to sink beer cans leads me to believe that YOU are most likely one of those whom do the sinking… If the laws in Illinois and elsewhere are strict on beer being comsumed while on water, then you and others should find another beverage to drink while boating and obey your state laws!! If you must have your alcohol then wait till you get back on dry land & drink…As I said, "There is NO excuse for littering our water AT ALL!!!!    .  +  * _    *   + .  *   + .      . *    )O/(     *    .  *   + .                                        . + . . (o o)     + .  *   + .   . * .         . *.  /._. ***STAR*** ~ .                                             + .  ~~~  . * . +

reason why you see beer cans strewn along the highways too…but do I care…. no way.  I offered an analysis…. you offered — WHAT? kw – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Hey Mark, Try telling this to "KEW"… He seems to have accused Canadian guides of sinking beer cans… Hey KEW, Are you sure you witnessed them sinking the cans?? Maybe what you actually saw was the guide pulling some sunken cans OUT of the water.. Hahahahahaha!!!!!! ~    . *    )O/(     *    .  *   + .                                        . + . . (o o)     + .  *   + .   . * .         . *.  /._. ***STAR*** ~ .                                             + .  ~~~  . * . +

///// I was not accusing "Canadian guides" ……. at least not in general.  In fact, I didn’t accuse anyone.  I simply pointed out a direct observation.. You don’t have to believe it…. why would I care?. kw – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey wake up,,, most states have these rules.  This IS why beer cans are tossed over…… why carry around evidence.  In Illinois it is that way……. Texas is apparently still civilized. kw That excuse doesn’t hold beer.  Some states have such laws while others don’t but you wouldn’t be able to tell which is which from the beer can litter on the water, or anywhere else, for that matter.  Personally, I think that states should raise beer can deposits to $2 per can. Then, if the drinkers are still too lazy, there will at least be a substantial incentive for others to pick up after them.  Who knows, someone might even get a franchise going, something like "Surrogate Mothers of America", with the slogan "We’re still picking up after you !" greg pavlov  [not affiliated with Canisius College]

I share the same sentiments of raising the deposits on beer/liquor containers up in the "$$$" range. This would make people think twice about chucking their cans anywhere.

Response:

WAS FLY FISHING I COUNTED A NUMBER OF POP AND BEER CANS WHICH WERE FLOATING DOWN SREAM FROM THE DAM.

I can totaly relate to your post…. There are alot of lazy ass people whom continue to carelessly polute our rivers & lakes…I have picked up other people’s garbage numerous times!! It’s just pure outright laziness!!!!    .  +  * _    *   + .  *   + .      . *    )O/(     *    .  *   + .                                            . + . . (o o)     + .  *   + .   . * .         . *.  /._. ***STAR*** ~ .                                             + .  ~~~  . * . +

Response:

I have picked up other people’s garbage numerous times!! It’s just pure outright laziness!!!!

One of my favorite fishing spots has been lost forever due to trash left by other fisherman. The landowner even posted signs warning people that he would close the area if the littering continued. The next signs he put up were " No Trespassing- Violaters will be Prosecuted". I have talked to him and tried to get permission to fish. His response " blame it on your fellow fisherman".

Response:

WAS FLY FISHING I COUNTED A NUMBER OF POP AND BEER CANS WHICH WERE FLOATING DOWN SREAM FROM THE DAM.

If you pick up someone’s beer cans, then you could get arrested for suspicion of having consumed alcohol on the water and that is likely why the cans are in the water in the first place….. I have witnessed guides in Canada sinking cans in the lakes as soon as the beer is consumed for just this reason. kw

Response:

If you pick up someone’s beer cans, then you could get arrested for suspicion of having consumed alcohol on the water and that is likely why the cans are in the water in the first place…..

Well, I live in Texas USA not in Canada.. There are no laws here in Texas which govern the amount of beer cans you have in possesion as long as you are not boating intoxicated…So there is NO excuse for littering our waters at all!!! I have witnessed guides in Canada sinking cans in the lakes as soon as the beer is consumed for just this reason.

Well, if this is true then good luck to the future Canadian fishermen because there wont be any clean fishing areas left & that is very sad….    .  +  * _    *   + .  *   + .      . *    )O/(     *    .  *   + .                                            . + . . (o o)     + .  *   + .   . * .         . *.  /._. ***STAR*** ~ .                                             + .  ~~~  . * . +

Response:

I think all of you missed my point!!! It’s not just beer cans it’s garbage in general. the point I was trying  to make is that we all have to do our part to clean things up!!!  You can’t blame people….You have to take action. Next time you see some garbage PICK IT UP!!! Set an example that it’s the IN thing to do!!! Show kids it’s cool to clean up even if it’s not yours!! TEACH BY EXAMPLE!!!! It is easy to sit here and write about it. DO IT!!!! So enough said, I thought I’d get a positive response, not a blame it on someone else session. THANK YOU TO ALL WHO READ THIS AND UNDERSTOOD WHAT I SAID AND PICKED UP  SOME GARBAGE THE LAST TIME THEY FOUND SOME!

Response:

I STOOD IN MY WADERS THIS EVENING IN A RIVER NOT FAR FROM MY HOUSE. IT IS A RIVER NOTED FOR SMALL MOUTH BASS, CATFISH, WALLEYE, MUSKIE , PIKE , PANFISH, ALL WHICH ARE ABUNDANT. AS I WAS FLY FISHING I COUNTED A NUMBER OF POP AND BEER CANS WHICH WERE FLOATING DOWN SREAM FROM THE DAM. THERE WAS A  GROUP OF FISHERMAN WHO WERE NEAR THE DAM FISHING UNDER THE FROTH FOR CATFISH I SUPPOSE. I’M NOT HERE TO BLAME ANYONE…… BUT I STARTED TO THINK OF HOW FAR THE RIVER HAS COME FROM WHAT IT WAS. I USED TO HEAR ABOUT THE RIVER AND HOW DIRTY IT WAS. THERE WERE NO FISH AND SO ON. TODAY THE RIVER IS A TROPHY FISHERY THANKS TO THE WORK OF MANY VOLUNTEERS AND PEOPLE LIKE YOU AND ME. SO THIS IS JUST A REMINDER TO LEAVE THE AREA YOU FISH BETTER THAN THE WAY YOU FOUND IT. PICK UP SOME TRASH AND THROW IT AWAY….EVEN IF IT’S NOT YOURS. REMEMBER TO EDUCATE THE YOUNG AND SHOW THEM BY EXAMPLE LIKE MY FATHER DID. LET’S TRY TO MAKE AN EXTRA EFFORT TO CONTINUE TO MAKE OUR RIVERS, LAKES , PONDS AND STREAMS BETTER PLACES TO FISH FOR EVERYONE!!                                                        BECAUSE I LOVE TO FISH!!

Response:

Question:

I do alot  of backpacking in NM. As in most of my trips I try to hit a lake, any lake small, big, it does not matter. Every time I go I see fish that are worth catching! I’m looking for gear that  is lite, compactable and tha does no take up room. Any ideas?

Drew,  3-6pc flyrods are a hot market….Scott, Sage, Winston..etc. I’ve probably left out a half-dozen brands… Nice rods out there…that CAN be packed small.       have fun, steve d.      

Response:

 I do alot  of backpacking in NM. As in most of my trips I try to hit a lake, any lake small, big, it does not matter. Every time I go I see fish that are worth catching! I’m looking for gear that  is lite, compactable and tha does no take up room. Any ideas?

I just disassemble (2 pieces) my 5-foot Daiwa lightweight (8-10 lb test) rod, remove the reel (my favorite lucky Shimano Maglight baitcaster), stuff the 2 rod lengths in my tentpole bag, stored in a vertical pouch on the side of my Camp Trails Wilderness frame pack.  The reel goes in the pack along with a small Plano lurebox.  The pole lengths are about 8-10 inches longer than the tentpoles so they extend that much above the pack, though they’re protected along the back frame and behind whatever rolled gear (tent, bag, pad) is packed on top of the pack. Always ready to fish, Dave

Response:

Try a four piece "Pack Rod", they are most popular for flyfishing.  You can pack them in a 2 foot tube and strap it to your pack frame.  A reel and a few flies dont weigh much and take up very little space. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  I do alot  of backpacking in NM. As in most of my trips I try to hit a lake, any lake small, big, it does not matter. Every time I go I see fish that are worth catching! I’m looking for gear that  is lite, compactable and tha does no take up room. Any ideas? I do a lot of fishing from my kayak.  I have a collapsible telescoping pole…goes down to 14 inches long.  While i’d imagine this would break if i caught Walter (any fish over 4 LBS), i have landed a 2.5 LB German Brown. Has a spinning reel.  I also have two Plano plastic lure organizers.  One is for bass, while the other is for trout.  Though, i could easily compact them into one box if needed.  I keep everything in creel.  Though i could get along with the pole, reel, one lure box, and pliers.

Response:

 I do alot  of backpacking in NM. As in most of my trips I try to hit a lake, any lake small, big, it does not matter. Every time I go I see fish that are worth catching! I’m looking for gear that  is lite, compactable and tha does no take up room. Any ideas?

Response:

 I do alot  of backpacking in NM. As in most of my trips I try to hit a lake, any lake small, big, it does not matter. Every time I go I see fish that are worth catching! I’m looking for gear that  is lite, compactable and tha does no take up room. Any ideas?

I do a lot of fishing from my kayak.  I have a collapsible telescoping pole…goes down to 14 inches long.  While i’d imagine this would break if i caught Walter (any fish over 4 LBS), i have landed a 2.5 LB German Brown. Has a spinning reel.  I also have two Plano plastic lure organizers.  One is for bass, while the other is for trout.  Though, i could easily compact them into one box if needed.  I keep everything in creel.  Though i could get along with the pole, reel, one lure box, and pliers.

Response:

Question:

Fly fishermen (more properly fly fisherpersons, wow, ain’t nothing sacred anymore)  you probably will be interested in a very new newsgroup rec.outdoors.fishing.fly devoted exclusively to fly fishing interests. Tight lines Mike Griffith —

Response:

MGFly fishermen (more properly fly fisherpersons, wow, ain’t nothing MGsacred anymore)  you probably will be interested in a very new newsgroup MGrec.outdoors.fishing.fly devoted exclusively to fly fishing interests. How do I ask my friendly sysop to access rec.outdoors.fishing.fly?  I think he’ll want to know who it comes from, anticipated message volume and such.  Thanks for helping out a novice computer user and soon to be novice flyfisherperson! Message written at 8:40pm, on Wednesday, May 25, 1994. —