Question:

Our family just exchanged a few gifts early. My daughter helps run a local zoo (great source for peacock feathers) and has to go in early Christmas morning to make sure all the animals are okay, so we won’t have our usual early AM gift swap. My youngest son gave me an organizer for my tying stuff that is *awesome* and wasn’t even on my list. It’s about 1/4 the size of Frank Reid’s box, so it is HUGE. Now I just have to go out and buy some more stuff to fill it. Looks like I’ll have to wrangle some more $$ by the time the fly fishing show comes to town. Back to bonding with the family and drinking a little toast to them – single malt, of course. I’ll tip my glass to you all as well. I’ve said it before, and at the risk of going maudlin I’ll say it again: I’ve gotten a great amount of information from this group over the past few years that has vastly improved my on-stream enjoyment and performance, and I appreciate every bit of it. I’ve also met some people I’d never have met without ROFF, and would have been a poorer man for not meeting them. — TL, Tim

Response:

. I’ll tip my glass to you all as well. I’ve said it before, and at the risk of going maudlin I’ll say it again: I’ve gotten a great amount of information from this group over the past few years that has vastly improved my on-stream enjoyment and performance, and I appreciate every bit of it. I’ve also met some people I’d never have met without ROFF, and would have been a poorer man for not meeting them. — TL, Tim

    well, maudlin is a word for people who can’t feel what you have just expressed.  of course, that is just an opinion from yfitons wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Question:

The point is that when I type a string of ASCII characters, I expected (up until now) that my recipients would see that string of ASCII characters (font differences notwithstanding), and not some browser developer’s interpretation of it. Is it even possible to type accurately the character string "colon, hyphen, closing parenthesis" without the newfangled browser defaults converting it to a grinning jack-o-lantern?

Errr, you’re missing the big picture.  The display of emoticons as graphics is in *your* software.  Us text-only types still see them as the text they are (well, to be more accurate for the literal minded, as the standard text representation of the bit patterns they are).  You don’t send big yellow smileys, you only see them.  If you turn off the setting Willi mentioned, you will then see the same reality we all do. –Stan

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Errr, you’re missing the big picture.  The display of emoticons as graphics is in *your* software.  Us text-only types still see them as the text they are (well, to be more accurate for the literal minded, as the standard text representation of the bit patterns they are).  You don’t send big yellow smileys, you only see them.  If you turn off the setting Willi mentioned, you will then see the same reality we all do.

Stupid me! Of course! Why didn’t I see that the first time?! Thanks for clearing that up, Stan! — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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<SNIP Errr, you’re missing the big picture.  The display of emoticons as graphics is in *your* software.  Us text-only types still see them as the text they are (well, to be more accurate for the literal minded, as the standard text representation of the bit patterns they are).  You don’t send big yellow smileys, you only see them.  If you turn off the setting Willi mentioned, you will then see the same reality we all do. –Stan

"A big yellow smiley, came and confused my old man". TL MC

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When we had our discussion about "whining", I did a search and found a couple groups that also used "whining" in the same way you do. (I disagree with them too!)

Makes the score 3 to 1. This is turning out to be a good day after all What was interesting to me is that they had the same attitude toward the use of emoticons as they did to whining.

Will you be handing down *your* unique pronouncement on that issue in the near future, or do we have to use our imagination? /daytripper (This is getting…a bit weird….)

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[artwork snipped] Looks like Betty Boop after a shark attack…

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[artwork snipped] Looks like Betty Boop after a shark attack…

Naw, she was probably just….changed… ) …hmm…I wonder what rw’s program will do with this

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Gee what happen went from a nice trip report to slamming smilies go figure only on ROFF                    Handyman Mike           Standing in a river waving a stick

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After recently upgrading my browser I noticed something right away. Smileys no longer appear as strings of ASCII symbols. They appear as bright yellow images of maniacally smiling or frowning smiley creatures. They STAND OUT! This is a dramatic change. I’ve always thought of smileys as cover-your-ass devices — protection from literal-minded pedants with no sense of humor, but otherwise harmless cliches that all reasonable people ignored. Now they’re in my face. Two or three of the new, improved smileys distract from the actual content of the post.

Tough nuggies, just ‘cuz you’ve gone over to the Dark Mozilla Side I ain’t throwing away my winky dudes! /daytripper (Fix it or get over it! )

Response:

You can change them back to ASCII ynder preferences/mail and newsgroups/message display.

Sure, but them I’ll have to get everyone else to change them, too. The point is that when I type a string of ASCII characters, I expected (up until now) that my recipients would see that string of ASCII characters (font differences notwithstanding), and not some browser developer’s interpretation of it. Is it even possible to type accurately the character string "colon, hyphen, closing parenthesis" without the newfangled browser defaults converting it to a grinning jack-o-lantern? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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Tough nuggies, just ‘cuz you’ve gone over to the Dark Mozilla Side I ain’t throwing away my winky dudes! /daytripper (Fix it or get over it! )

When we had our discussion about "whining", I did a search and found a couple groups that also used "whining" in the same way you do. (I disagree with them too!) What was interesting to me is that they had the same attitude toward the use of emoticons as they did to whining. Willi

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After recently upgrading my browser I noticed something right away. Smileys no longer appear as strings of ASCII symbols. They appear as bright yellow images of maniacally smiling or frowning smiley creatures. They STAND OUT! This is a dramatic change. I’ve always thought of smileys as cover-your-ass devices — protection from literal-minded pedants with no sense of humor, but otherwise harmless cliches that all reasonable people ignored. Now they’re in my face. Two or three of the new, improved smileys distract from the actual content of the post. Tough nuggies, just ‘cuz you’ve gone over to the Dark Mozilla Side I ain’t throwing away my winky dudes! /daytripper (Fix it or get over it! )

Hmm…I wonder what this’ll do to it…                       .                                :::::::….                `::                           .::::::::::::::::::..::::::::::::::.                    .:  .::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::                   ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::                   `:::::::::::::::“::::::::::: `::::::::::::::::::                    ::::::::::’zc$$$b`:’,cc,`:::’ :”“,c=`:::::::::::’                                `"""???$PFFF""    """"""""                         $$$$$P  `$.::::::::::::::::::         `"".$$$$$c               z$$$$$$"           .::::::::::::::::..:3$$$$P L               `?$$$"            ::::::::::::::::::::.?::: . $    .,,,,ccc$L ? ""             :::::::::::::::::::::::::::.c%  :$$ ?=?P$$$%                 ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::                              `:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::                               ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::                          :   :::::::::::::::::““,,,,zcc`””`                          :::::::::::’zc,,,,,cd$$ `???""""                               J$$$$$$"      $$$$$$F                               $$$$$P        ?$$$$$                              d$$$$F         <$$$$F                              $$$P"           $$$P                             J$$P            <$$$’                            .$$P             $$$$                           .$$$             `$$$L                          z$$$F            / "$$$                         $$$$%/           ( ;. "?.                        ;"?""            “  `.                          .- `                   `–’ ;-}…oops…<G…. R

Response:

After recently upgrading my browser I noticed something right away. Smileys no longer appear as strings of ASCII symbols. They appear as bright yellow images of maniacally smiling or frowning smiley creatures. They STAND OUT! This is a dramatic change. I’ve always thought of smileys as cover-your-ass devices — protection from literal-minded pedants with no sense of humor, but otherwise harmless cliches that all reasonable people ignored. Now they’re in my face. Two or three of the new, improved smileys distract from the actual content of the post. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After recently upgrading my browser I noticed something right away. Smileys no longer appear as strings of ASCII symbols. They appear as bright yellow images of maniacally smiling or frowning smiley creatures. They STAND OUT! This is a dramatic change. I’ve always thought of smileys as cover-your-ass devices — protection from literal-minded pedants with no sense of humor, but otherwise harmless cliches that all reasonable people ignored. Now they’re in my face. Two or three of the new, improved smileys distract from the actual content of the post.

You can change them back to ASCII ynder preferences/mail and newsgroups/message display. Willi

Response:

        Had a *real* need to fish today.  So, I decided to swing up the valley and hit the river just below the Upper Souris refuge dam.  Had heard some of the small panfish were hitting. Sounded like just what the doctor ordered.         Now is where the folly starts — I have an 8′ 4 wt. in the car for when the urge to sneak off hits.  Listen to the weather report, and they say wind gusting to 30 mph.  Oh well, I figure, I can perhaps set up on a sheltered section, out of the wind, and still be able to cast in a halfways alright manner.  Get out of the car and string up.  Wind is channeling quite efficiently down the river.  Walk to the bank anyhow, and proceed to flail away…         Ugh.  Head is not screwed on straight.  Attempt to muscle the 4 wt.  Leader system is also too long, and can’t even turn the weighted #10 scud over with a roll cast.   Situation heading downhill rapidly.  Pick up and head to the small fishing pier to attempt to jig the scud from on high.  This works, after a fashion, unless one is exposed to the wind or a gust comes along and lifts the whole assembly out of the water, to hover several feet above it.         Decide to proceed upstream to a point area where I think I can cast downwind.  Oh yeah, the forward cast is downwind, but backcasts are problematic.  Gusts collapse the loop going back.  Wind dies a bit, and I proceed to muscle the thing again.  Not paying a lot of attention to my backcast either.  Can feel the line almost straightening behind me, and give it a quick snap forward, just as a gust kicks up.         Snap is the operative phrase, as I hear the line crack behind me.  Line goes forward and falls nicely on the water, but I figure the scud went flying when I cracked the whip.  Strip in, and find that not only is the scud gone, but the leader, braided loop, and about 6-8" of my fly line as well.         Reel up in disgust with myself.  As I’m packing the rod back up, hear something across the bank from me, and see a nice whitetail buck looking at me.  He gives a snort and bounds off into the thick brush.  Sit down on the bank and look around.  See a female Bittern fishing down the far bank.  She has no luck either, and flies off.  Look upstream and see a Pellican floating my way. Watch it sail on by.    None of the preceeding folly seems to matter all that much.  Would be quite content to sit there for awhile, just taking it all in.  See a small fish take something off the top with a splashing rise.  Think it was a perch, but it really doesn’t matter.  Life is good when one is on the water.  Unfortunately, it was time for me to head back home.         Fixed the business end of my fly line when I got home, and am ready to go again.  Forecast says much less wind tomorrow, so perhaps I will head back in the afternoon for awhile.  Lots of grasshoppers about.  If the wind will allow me to unleash the 4 wt. again, I might try some dry fly fishing with a suitable hopper tie.  Will throw the 7 wt. in the car in case the breeze is too stiff.  And if it’s blowing a gale again, I might just sit on the bank and watch the world go by. Todd

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Question:

How many people?  Do you have a separate fly? Set out the ground cloth, set out the fly, work between them (it helps, but is not required, to have helpers stabilizing the fly). Depends a lot on specifics,such as tent style, etc. Practice at home. Dan — + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – "Science finds, Industry applies, Man conforms." motto of the 1933 Chicago World’s Fair + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + – + –

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Speaking of packing a wet tent:  If you’re on a trip where the heavens just pour on you for a couple days’ straight, does anyone have any tips for setting a tent up IN the rain, so as to avoid getting the INSIDE of the tent (very) wet? [I've never had to do it...yet] set up a tarp first. Penny S I’m trying to LOSE weight from my pack, not add to it!! Ruger9 Then leave the tent home.  It weighs a lot more than the tarp. I spent 5 nights in Yellowstone last fall with only a tarp and it rained 4 of those 5 nights.  One night, we had 3 hours of thunderstorms with heavy rain.  Pitch the tent right (pay attention to the weather before you pitch it) and you stay dry. The morning after the thunderstorms, the two of us who slept under the tarp were up and out of camp in less than an hour.  The two who slept in tents that night waited two hours for their tents to dry and then complained that they didn’t have any time for fishing…

Response:

I’m trying to LOSE weight from my pack, not add to it!! Ruger9

Then skip the tent and just take a tarp.  That’s what I do anyway. There are a few tents — like the Wanderlust Nomad — made of Sil-nylon which does not absorb any water.  Shaking it removes all water. My tarp is made of sil-nylon.  After a couple shakes it’s completely dry.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Speaking of packing a wet tent:  If you’re on a trip where the heavens just pour on you for a couple days’ straight, does anyone have any tips for setting a tent up IN the rain, so as to avoid getting the INSIDE of the tent (very) wet? [I've never had to do it...yet] set up a tarp first. Penny S I’m trying to LOSE weight from my pack, not add to it!! Ruger9

Then leave the tent home.  It weighs a lot more than the tarp. I spent 5 nights in Yellowstone last fall with only a tarp and it rained 4 of those 5 nights.  One night, we had 3 hours of thunderstorms with heavy rain.  Pitch the tent right (pay attention to the weather before you pitch it) and you stay dry. The morning after the thunderstorms, the two of us who slept under the tarp were up and out of camp in less than an hour.  The two who slept in tents that night waited two hours for their tents to dry and then complained that they didn’t have any time for fishing…

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Speaking of packing a wet tent:  If you’re on a trip where the heavens just pour on you for a couple days’ straight, does anyone have any tips for setting a tent up IN the rain, so as to avoid getting the INSIDE of the tent (very) wet? [I've never had to do it...yet]

You’re lucky: where & when I normally go is the rainy season, and 3-4 days of solid rain isn’t all that uncommon. The worst part isn’t the tent getting wet so much as that by the 3rd day or so *everything* is either wet or 100% saturated. It’s easier if you can stay at a base camp and leave everything set up, but often that’s not do-able. Bummer packing around 20 lbs of water and very few people can remain optimistic on day no.4 of being cold & wet. I know you leave the doors & windows zipped closed, but if you set up the tent body, which is permeable nylon, and it’s getting poured on while you get the poles connected to it, all that water is going to eventually end up inside the tent, I would think…

It depends on the tent. I can do that with the 1-man (actually I put the poles in position under the rainfly and then raise the tent with the rainfly laying on top of it). The 2-man or family tents need to have the windows or doors open -particularly if the fabric is wet- else they don’t want to go up at all. With them I just do it as quickly as possible and then mop up the floor when it’s up. Maybe unroll the tent, quickly put the whole mess under the fly, and do everything under the rain fly, as best as possible?

And that works if it’s not too windy. — JLG

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Single wall, tent (e.g., Stephensons) Popup Rainfly first (if so built) Tarp. Sulk inside your poncho until you get desperate enough. Pack a large sponge. Practice like NASCAR pitcrews do.  If they can change 4 tires, add 40 gal of fuel, clean the windshield, tweak the suspension, read the joke section of Playboy, and conduct an interview with a sports announcer in 17 secs, then it seems a simple matter to toss a tent up and get in it before getting too damp. But then it all goes to hell in a kitbag if there are big winds as well.

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just pour on you for a couple days’ straight, does anyone have any tips for setting a tent up IN the rain, so as to avoid getting the INSIDE of the tent (very) wet?

Waiting can help.  There are steady rains and there are downpours, but even a hurricane has an eye.  Eventually, rain lets up a little, even if it doesn’t stop.   Steve Silberberg Steve’s Tiny Book of Romance http://www.callipygianproductions.com/stbor/stbor.html "For man so feared his ignorance, that he created god in his image"-Eric 3:16

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Speaking of packing a wet tent:  If you’re on a trip where the heavens just pour on you for a couple days’ straight, does anyone have any tips for setting a tent up IN the rain, so as to avoid getting the INSIDE of the tent (very) wet? [I've never had to do it...yet] set up a tarp first. Penny S

I’m trying to LOSE weight from my pack, not add to it!! Ruger9

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| Speaking of packing a wet tent:  If you’re on a trip where the heavens | just pour on you for a couple days’ straight, does anyone have any | tips for setting a tent up IN the rain, so as to avoid getting the | INSIDE of the tent (very) wet? | [I've never had to do it...yet] | | I know you leave the doors & windows zipped closed, but if you set up | the tent body, which is permeable nylon, and it’s getting poured on | while you get the poles connected to it, all that water is going to | eventually end up inside the tent, I would think… | | Maybe unroll the tent, quickly put the whole mess under the fly, and | do everything under the rain fly, as best as possible? | | Ruger9 I pitch a tarp first, then the tent underneath it. — FlyingCoyote http://www.boarsgut.com —

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[ Ruger9 ] Speaking of packing a wet tent:  If you’re on a trip where the heavens just pour on you for a couple days’ straight, does anyone have any tips for setting a tent up IN the rain, so as to avoid getting the INSIDE of the tent (very) wet?

Use a tent where you pitch the outer first, like Hilleberg or Helsport (the primary brand here in Norway). I’ve camped in too much bad weather to risk using one where the inner is pitched first. I see how using only the inner is nice in places with very stable weather and bugs, but I don’t trust the weather around here that much. Martin — "An ideal world is left as an exercise to the reader."                                                  -Paul Graham, On Lisp

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Speaking of packing a wet tent:  If you’re on a trip where the heavens just pour on you for a couple days’ straight, does anyone have any tips for setting a tent up IN the rain, so as to avoid getting the INSIDE of the tent (very) wet? [I've never had to do it...yet] I know you leave the doors & windows zipped closed, but if you set up the tent body, which is permeable nylon, and it’s getting poured on while you get the poles connected to it, all that water is going to eventually end up inside the tent, I would think… Maybe unroll the tent, quickly put the whole mess under the fly, and do everything under the rain fly, as best as possible? Ruger9

That generally is the way to go, but some designs are better for this than others. Ideal would be the ones where you can set up poles and fly, then open the groundsheet and body underneath. There are also designs from TNF and Walrus which have the poles pre-attached, which speeds up set up. Of course, with practice and teamwork, you can set up in a few minutes. Happy trails, Gary (net.yogi.bear) at the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom

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Speaking of packing a wet tent:  If you’re on a trip where the heavens just pour on you for a couple days’ straight, does anyone have any tips for setting a tent up IN the rain, so as to avoid getting the INSIDE of the tent (very) wet? [I've never had to do it...yet] I know you leave the doors & windows zipped closed, but if you set up the tent body, which is permeable nylon, and it’s getting poured on while you get the poles connected to it, all that water is going to eventually end up inside the tent, I would think… Maybe unroll the tent, quickly put the whole mess under the fly, and do everything under the rain fly, as best as possible? Ruger9

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Speaking of packing a wet tent:  If you’re on a trip where the heavens just pour on you for a couple days’ straight, does anyone have any tips for setting a tent up IN the rain, so as to avoid getting the INSIDE of the tent (very) wet? [I've never had to do it...yet]

set up a tarp first. Penny S

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Question:

I rec’d, in the mail today,  the August 7th issue of US News and World Report and on page 6 is states: Cheney is a passionate fly fisherman and an able wing shooter.  Former Secretary of State James Baker tells us that Cheney taught him to be a world-class fly-caster.  "Everything I know about fly-fishing I learned from Dick."  He tells of one trip when Cheney crawled on his belly up to a stream so as not to spook the fish. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<)))’    <)))’    <)))’    <’(((<    <)))’    <)))’

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  He tells of one trip when Cheney crawled on his belly up to a stream so as not to spook the fish.

        big deal.  after all, the guy is a career politician.         oh, well; i reckon he would do just fine up on slick rock creek. wayno(you see one, you’ve seen ‘em all)

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Question:

What is not good is your honesty.

Cheap shot George, remember our private email exchange a while back?…..You’re life is an open book and subject to much scrutiny. I expect that there will be an open and public apology for questioning my honesty over a contrary opinion to a rather insignificant product. Since your rather public apology a few months ago, I have tried to live and let live with you but you have now made another enemy George. Your former friend Wayne Knight

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… However, I still maintain that prior waterproofing of the fly and the use of drying crystals or amodou (spelling) is the way to go.

Agree with Louie on this one. Amadou is a fungus that dries flies instantly with just a touch. Touch the fly with the magic mushroom, and it’s dry. It was used extensively "in the old days", but it’s rather expensive, and low tech, so has fallen out of favor. — Ken Fortenberry- fond of natural, organic, low tech solutions

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____  All you need to do is whip dry and apply to surface of water.  If you need to reapply, I’d say you need to just rinse the fish slime off your fly and cast it again.  I only have to dress a fly once, while still dry and use it all day.  You may be using very heavy hooks in your dry flies. I’d have to see what your doing. Outside that, use any dry fly dressing you want. — MrG/American Sportsman You’re weasling George.  I use the same hooks most folks use,

including on dry flies I buy in reputable fly shops.  Face it, you engaged in Spam and made a false claim.  If a person uses Gink, and I may not in the future, one must reapply it several times during the day if you are catching fish, especially due to fish slime.  Just washing the slime off and whipping the fly still will not consistently float the fly high and dry without a reapplication.  Enough already. PatK http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html http://www.gink.com/rod_facts/bastardjun00.html  LATEST BAMBOO FACTS "the saga continues"

* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Hi All, Most companies sell a liquid solution that has Scotch Guard plus other ingredients that you can treat all your dry flies with after you tie or buy them or once a year. Some of them are Hydrostop, New Fly Kote and Water Shed. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s a silly question, but I have to ask… Does anybody have an opinion (that’s the silly part) regarding ‘Water Shed’ the so-called ‘Permanent Waterproofing Liquid’ or similar ‘permanent’ floatant products? I was looking at different fly dressings and found several references to this product.  One page has it listed with George Gehrke’s Gink & Xink products–all three at the same price.  Gink is sold as the "World’s Best Dry Fly Dressing" but is also advertised as providing ‘only’ hours of floatation. It seems that if Water Shed were truly permanent, that it would be quite the bargain. Looking forward to ensuing debate, Tom Before you buy.

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The best floatant is anything that is not Gink and has a cap that is attached to the bottle by a little plastic connection so it won’t fall in the river when you pop the top off. eric – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s a silly question, but I have to ask… Does anybody have an opinion (that’s the silly part) regarding ‘Water Shed’ the so-called ‘Permanent Waterproofing Liquid’ or similar ‘permanent’ floatant products? I was looking at different fly dressings and found several references to this product.  One page has it listed with George Gehrke’s Gink & Xink products–all three at the same price.  Gink is sold as the "World’s Best Dry Fly Dressing" but is also advertised as providing ‘only’ hours of floatation. It seems that if Water Shed were truly permanent, that it would be quite the bargain. Looking forward to ensuing debate, Tom Before you buy.

Response:

You are getting to be a real pain again. If you would stop changing your name, at least the filter would work.  You simply will not wash as an expert on honesty.  Just in case you still have not got it, even if gink was the best fly-floatant in the whole damn world, most people on here would not use it because you make it, and you are a bloody nuisance to say the least. It is a mystery to me that you simply do not realise what a fool you continuously make of yourself on here. Give it a bloody rest for God

Question:

Okay gang, what would be on your ideal fly fishing web site?  And what sites come close to your ideal? Jeff

Thosands of people should reveal their honey holes, and no one should be able to access the site but me. — Those who say do not know; those who know do not say. — Lao Tsu, who must have been a fisherman. something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Okay gang, what would be on your ideal fly fishing web site?  And what sites come close to your ideal? Jeff

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Okay gang, what would be on your ideal fly fishing web site?  

Tech stuff: 1. Smart technology design, made to maximize usability on different client configurations. No Frames, No Java, No Java script, No Banners, No animated gifs, No excessive graphics, No risky and non fail-gracefully code, No excessive tables, No overdoing lay-out with html – settle for structure. 2. Universal non-plattform specific readability in terms of fonts and colors. 3. Keep it simple! 99 of a hundred trying to be fancy end up looking like complete and utter imbeciles. Let your content speak for it self, don’t fuck it up with bad design decisions. 4. Do not split long pages into several small ones (common sense applies, though). 5. Make it fast and effortless for visitors to figure out the structure of your website, latest updates and contents (search-engine, what’s new-overview, site map). Do not make your site look cool for the uninterested drooling 7-year old who will visit your site once or twice. Make it functional for your frequent visitors. Read this: http://photo.net/wtr/thebook/ And check out http://www.w3.org/ as well. That is the easy part, now the hard stuff. Content guidelines: 1. Only do stuff you or your staff is knowledgeable on. 2. Do things well and complete, or don’t do them at all. You get no extra points for putting it on the web. The Internet is 20 years old and maturing every minute (ROFF excepted of course . Sucky things aren’t cool any longer just because they are on the web, they just suck. 3. Allow feedback and publicly available comments on everything (interactive). Share what you know, and let others share what they know related to your site. 4. Update regularly. Don’t suddenly take a 6 month absence without notice. Be committed, and stay that way. Content: Firstly, take a look at the major search engines, and see what sites are out there. A million or two. Find anything missing? Or a concept that could be substantially improved upon by you? 1. I couldn’t give a rat’s ass about another site set out to help newbies figure the most basic things. There are plenty of those already (I assume). 2. Neither do I pursue sites which focuses on technical fly fishing stuff, like hatches, insects, knots, rods, technique etc. Of course, an extensive site of this would be interesting, and definitively worthy of a bookmark, and be used as a reference. If the site is somewhat less then really really really great (which will require insane amounts of work), it’s not interesting to me at all. Remember, hundreds of books has been written on these subjects by very knowledgeable people. Be better, or be gone. 3. I want personal stuff. I like pictures and I enjoy stories. I want someone who is adept at writing to share his thoughts and experiences with me. I may be a weirdo, but I tremendously enjoy reading other people’s stories from fly fishing outings/trips. I want to know how they feel, what they are thinking, what happens etc, almost like a diary. Be willing to share. You can probably tell me very little about fly fishing, but you can probably tell me very much about yourself as a fly fisherman. Write a book about it, and put the chapters on your website. Offer intelligent and lengthy stuff. Screw those who gets a headache from reading more than a few minutes straight. Write it so good, that non-fly fishers will enjoy it as well. 4. Be humble, and expect nothing in return. 5. Write in Norwegian, so I can fully enjoy the subtle linguistic concept. (ok, this one is rather optional) That’s how the ideal fly fishing web site is to me. Quite easy, actually. Make one, and I’ll visit regularly, if I like your style. — Christian Figenschou – <URL: http://figen.com

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Question:

Jim: In addition to the excellent suggestions made by Bob, I would suggest you also look at Cortland and Reddington.  Both make rod/reel/line combos, probably falling somewhere in between the low and medium price range.  Cortland’s usually includes a video that may be helpful.  Also, the Sage Discovery series has a combo that is worth a look that isn’t exhorbitantly priced.  All of those manufacturers will have dealers somewhere that should allow you to try the rods before buying, to see what feels best for you.  On the mail order side, Cabela’s has a number of combos available. Of course, a good fly shop will be able to work with you and put together a package that works too. Once you’ve got all that stuff, you’ll need some flies.  They seem to run between $1 and $2 apiece for decent flies where I live.  Hopefully you’ve already got some waders and wading shoes/boots. URL’s Cortland  <http://www.lightlink.com/cortland Cabela’s  <http://www.cabelas.com While looking at the combo packages, don’t think that because they are less expensive than the top of the line they are junk.  On the contrary. You may eventually want to move up in quality, but a good package from a good manufacturer should serve you in good stead for quite some time (until you just gotta have that high end Winston, Loomis, T & T etc. <grin) Good luck and happy shopping. Ron.

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Jim, It’s likely you may want to get more than one rod/reel combo to "cover the bases".  I don’t know exactly what you’re after, but I’d suggest a 5-weight and a 9-weight.  The 5 is incredibly versatile for trout and other freshwater fish, while the 9 will give you a great saltwater rod for bluefish, stripers, bonefish and permit, as well as offering you the opportunity to pull in some big steelhead.  You can get the whole nine yards from Orvis for around $400 for each rod/reel combo–and that includes the line and cases.  Of course, you’ll also want to invest in a good pair of waders, a vest, flies, etc…my advice would be to talk to a guide in the area where you will be doing most of your fishing. Enjoy. E

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Jim, It’s likely you may want to get more than one rod/reel combo to "cover the bases".  I don’t know exactly what you’re after, but I’d suggest a 5-weight and a 9-weight…

Jim, This is the beginning of the end. Once you’ve got the five weight and the nine weight, and a reel and line to go with each, and the jacket and the bags, and the flies and the boxes, you’ll be in too deep to get out. Like the rest of us. Andrew                     The History of Fly Fishing             http://www.elisis.com/Fly.fishing.history/

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jim, It’s likely you may want to get more than one rod/reel combo to "cover the bases".  I don’t know exactly what you’re after, but I’d suggest a 5-weight and a 9-weight… Jim, This is the beginning of the end. Once you’ve got the five weight and the nine weight, and a reel and line to go with each, and the jacket and the bags, and the flies and the boxes, you’ll be in too deep to get out. Like the rest of us. Andrew                    The History of Fly Fishing            http://www.elisis.com/Fly.fishing.history/

        Dear new found friends- I really wanted to thank all of you for your generosity of time and advise- I’ve quite frankly been amazed at the number of you in the NG that were willing to spend the amount of time you have to help a total neophyte.  Of course I realized after receiving some response that I was too ignorant to have given you all any pertinent info about what the heck I might be trying to catch-Dah!!         So let me fill you in about who you were trying to help         I’m a 55 yr old about to retire dentist- and before any of you start to wonder about why I shoul give a darn about how much this stuff costs- I must add that I’m also in possesion of the first dollar I ever made- enough said.  I’m in Ohio and plan to fish local waters for smallmouth and panfish.  I also wish to fish for trout around the Petoskey, MI area and to accompany my 82 yr old uncle ( who is still an avid trout guy) out west.         The real reason for the post was that I had heard(my ignorance) stories about $2000 outfits.  So I went to the local sportschain store to see for myself what a flyrod actually looked and felt like. They had complete outfits that really looked to me to be kind of junky and the personnel had NOT a clue about flyfishing- even I figured that out.         So although I pretty much knew I didn’t want the junk I also wasn’t real keen on walking into a REAL shop and being talked into $2000 worth of stuff without any knowledge of the alternatives.  You guys have been so kind as to give me inumerable sorces of quqlity gear at reasonable getting started prices and for that I am very grateful!!         So thanks again for the input and you should be proud of your knowledge and the "art" that you share so willingly with others.                 With kindest personal regards,                                 Jim PS.  And Dr. Andrew- Sorry but I fear that I got in "too deep" several weeks ago in Michigan.  I stood on the banks of a small stream for quite a while watching entranced as one of your compatriots plied his magic with fly rod on the stream- it was very close to a spirtual experience that I believe I want to share beside all of you.

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   Could you please, if you have the time and inclination, list some tackle and gear combinations in perhaps three general price combinations- Low,Med, Top of the line.  I’d be interested in specific brand recommendations so that I can research these.

The gear market is quite a varied lot right now, so I’ll just give you some average rod/reel/line combo prices, okay? Bargain Basement End:   (Shakespeare, etc. ) $50 Low End:  (Orvis Clearwater, Bean Angler, etc.)  $150 Middle Ground:  $300 High End:  $600+ Ridiculous End: (custom bamboo, etc.)  $1500+ Depending upon your financial situation with your pending retirement, I’d recommend you jump in on the Low to Middle Ground.  I’m not sure what you’re fishing for, but for a standard trout rig, I’d recommend that you buy a decent rod, a top-end flyline, and a reel….in that order of importance.  (IMHO).  For fish under 6 lbs, with a reasonably stout tippet/leader, a click-pawl style reel will serve you nicely. For larger fish or lighter tippets, consider upgrading to a disc-drag style reel.  The more popular manufacturers/retailers in the industry today are Sage, Loomis, Orvis, LL Bean for rods.   I’d highly recommend trying a few rod/reel combinations from a local flyshop to see what type of action/length, etc. that you prefer.  The shop owners will also be able to point you to the other "necessities" which you’ll need.      Also, could you point me toward URL’s that have online catalog pricing or that I can order printed catalogs.

Here’s a couple that will start you on your research. www.llbean.com      (L.L. Bean….ask for a FFing Spec. Catalog) www.orvis.com     (Orvis….same as above) There are others online too , but both of these retailers have a range of products to illustrate the price ranges mentioned above. Good Luck! Bob Skehan

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   I’d be interested in some kind folks giving me some input as to the general start up costs involved in starting out on this adventure.  My it is very difficult- not to mention TIME consuming-to reply to- so I wouldn’t be suprised if I don’t catch anything from this post- we all have our time consrtaints- but let me thank you in advance if you are kind enough to reply.    Again, thank you for you kind consideration,            Regards, Jim

I think you’re making a good choice to get involved if flyfishing.  If nothing else, your retirement won’t be boring.   I don’t have any sage advice to pass on, but; I do have a short story. I read all of the books and learned to flyfish basically by myself.  I had been actively flyfishing (mostly once or twice a month) for about ten years.  We were visiting Reno NV. for a few months and I was really injoying the fishing in the Truckee River there.  I’d come home in the evening and tell my wife all of the great stuff I’d done and what a wonderful day I’d had.  After a while, she wanted to join in the fun.  She asked me if she minded if she learned to fish and came fishing wiht me.  I told her I would love it she joined me but, I was unsure of my ablilty to teach her to fish (I was also a little worried about the friction me teaching her to fish would cause). Being a very smart woman, she understood my position.  She got on the phone and called the fly shop in Reno (I don’t recall thier name but I think it’s the only one in town).  She explained her situation to them, and asked for help.  What they offered was simple, two days with and veteran guide and the use of thier equipment.  The first half of the first day was inside she learned the knots and terminology she needed.  After lunch, she learned to cast.  The next day, they fished. I don’t remember what she paid for this but it seems if was just a regular guide fee for two days.  After fishing, she was hooked and bought an outfit they recommended to her (actually a bargain clearout model they happened to have). After those two days of concentrated instruction, she could fish as well as I after all of my years of reading and trial and error.   It worked out perfectly for me.  I got a good fishing partner I enjoy being with and didn’t screw up a good marriagre trying to teach how to fish.  Not only that, her  being good has pushed me to learn more and take advice from everyone I see.  Since then (thats been about 12 years ago)  we have taken guided trips together and gone to classes that have interested us.  And of course, we have fished together and had some great times. So, I guess the morale of my story.  Hire someone that knows the sport to learn the basics.  Take thier advice on equipment.  If you fish in a new area hire a guide for a day and pick his brain as much as you can.  And above all, don’t get big headed and think you know more than the next guy you meet on the water.  His advice may be the one thing you need to have a good day.   Well hope my rambling didn’t go on too long, and good luck. Steve Russell

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        I’d be interested in some kind folks giving me some input as to the general start up costs involved in starting out on this adventure.  My background is some infrequent spinner baiting for bass and, of course, I’ve drowned a few worms in my time.  But I’m about to retire and want to enjoy some of the finer things in life- fly fishing has always appealed to my sense of imagination as the ultimate art form regarding a combination of sport mingled with a satisfying environmental experience- so I’d like to at least try my hand at it.         I have a general understanding from years of hard experience, that in many cases using inferior equiptment may NOT give me the degree of satisfaction that is possible when you have the finest- but there is a degree of practicality involved in jumping into anything new , so what I would really be interested in is this-         Could you please, if you have the time and inclination, list some tackle and gear combinations in perhaps three general price combinations- Low,Med, Top of the line.  I’d be interested in specific brand recommendations so that I can research these.         Also, could you point me toward URL’s that have online catalog pricing or that I can order printed catalogs.         I am quite aware that this is such an open ended question that it is very difficult- not to mention TIME consuming-to reply to- so I wouldn’t be suprised if I don’t catch anything from this post- we all have our time consrtaints- but let me thank you in advance if you are kind enough to reply.         Again, thank you for you kind consideration,                 Regards, Jim

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Question:

Hey fisherfolks! I will be going fishing for steelhead for the first time on the Pere Marquette River in Michigan in mid-November. I would like to tie some flies before I go. I realize that I can buy them from a local fly shop, but it is always more fun to catch a fish on fly that I have tied myself. Can anyone point me to a good source for tying instructions for great lakes steelhead flies? Thanks! Steve Rosenblum Ann Arbor, MI

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Hey fisherfolks! I will be going fishing for steelhead for the first time on the Pere Marquette River in Michigan in mid-November. I would like to tie some flies before I go. I realize that I can buy them from a local fly shop, but it is always more fun to catch a fish on fly that I have tied myself. Can anyone point me to a good source for tying instructions for great lakes steelhead flies? Thanks! Steve Rosenblum Ann Arbor, MI

Purple yarn eggs.  They work sweet.

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I’ve never seen anyone use anything but yarn.  Orange and/or chartreuse in small egg patterns.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey fisherfolks! I will be going fishing for steelhead for the first time on the Pere Marquette River in Michigan in mid-November. I would like to tie some flies before I go. I realize that I can buy them from a local fly shop, but it is always more fun to catch a fish on fly that I have tied myself. Can anyone point me to a good source for tying instructions for great lakes steelhead flies? Thanks! Steve Rosenblum Ann Arbor, MI Purple yarn eggs.  They work sweet.

PURCHASE "Flies for Steelhead" by Dick kStewart and Farrow Allen.  Full retail is a nickle short of $35.  It is an excellent book and exactly what you’re looking for Steve. Michigan Steelhead waters are usually very low and slow regarding current.  Concentrate on light wire Partidge Hooks.  And yes, they are also expensive but it beats spending your money in a bar. You don’t have much time left to get going on this fly tying business as Mid-November will be here before you know it.  You’re asking a lot, so I kid you not on EXACTLY what book to get.  Don’t be surprised, since the book is not over 3/8 inch thick or slightly over 1/4 inch.  It is packed with nothing but Steelhead patterns.  A must, for your library if you are a serious fly tyer.  (This is spelled two ways, ‘Tyer & Tier’) Again, don’t forget your GINK.  It will skate your flies with a vengence! George Gehrke/Mr. Gink

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If you want to buy a book check out Fly Fishing for Great Lakes Steelhead,  The fly patterns are not as good as a book on just flies but it’s got load of info on other places in other states to fish. I find that an egg with a Nymph Dropper works better than anything else. (ham and eggs as we call it).  Tie on an egg fly (size 6-10, if fish move out of the way of your fly drop down in size) and then 8-20 inches of tippet tied of eye or shank of egg hook to a PM Caddis or Greem Rock worm (Rycaphelia) (don’t flame my lack of correct spelling).  Or try Kaufmann Stones Black or Golden (6-10). Egg Sucking Leeches in black olive or purple,  Green Butt Skunks,  and just about anything buggy or nymph looking on a stout hook. Position yourself slightly upstream, quarter your cast slightly upstream, use enough weight to ‘tick’ along the bottom and hope they inhale your fly while they are yawining or something.  Good  Luck T. Frank BUFF – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hey fisherfolks! I will be going fishing for steelhead for the first time on the Pere Marquette River in Michigan in mid-November. I would like to tie some flies before I go. I realize that I can buy them from a local fly shop, but it is always more fun to catch a fish on fly that I have tied myself. Can anyone point me to a good source for tying instructions for great lakes steelhead flies? Thanks! Steve Rosenblum Ann Arbor, MI

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I’ve never seen anyone use anything but yarn.  Orange and/or chartreuse in small egg patterns.

Didn’t catch the first article here but I think I ge tthe jist of the question.  My adivce is to visit the salmon river homepage at http://www.salmon-river.com. Not only is it a great page for anyone who fly fishes the great lakes tribs it has an entire section on flys to use for salmon and trout.  My personal favorite for fresh run steelhead is a frammus pattern (orange body with chartruse wing or just the opposite).  This fly satisfies all the criteria ( ie.  easy to tie, cheap to tie and very effective fished on both a dead drift and a swing ). Easy and cheap are important because you tend to loose alot of flies.  Remember in the cold water if your not ticking the bottom your probably not fishing deep enough.   For steelhead who have been holding over in the stream a while ( Late Fall/Winter time )I try and use dark nymphs ( gray or brown are my favorites ) in around a size 10. Good Luck, PCR

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Hey fisherfolks! I will be going fishing for steelhead for the first time on the Pere Marquette River in Michigan in mid-November. I would like to tie some flies before I go. I realize that I can buy them from a local fly shop, but it is always more fun to catch a fish on fly that I have tied myself. Can anyone point me to a good source for tying instructions for great lakes steelhead flies? Thanks! Steve Rosenblum Ann Arbor, MI

Steve, Try tying Glow Bugs or Egg patterns in a variety of colors: I use a size 6 or 8 hook and try them pretty small, (a little larger that a real egg). I feel this is the best winter pattern. Colors to tie-up: white, pink salmon egg light orange orange pink red They are fast easy and effective. Try the little Manistee when you are in the area. Also contact Frank Lendzion at the Wellston Inn, Wellston, MI. 616-848-4163. Tell him I sent you. He is a guide in the area that could be a valuable source of information. Since it is your first time on new water, I suggest you hire someone to get you started and you help you get into fish. Tighten ‘em up, then release them Tom Steele

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey fisherfolks! I will be going fishing for steelhead for the first time on the Pere Marquette River in Michigan in mid-November. I would like to tie some flies before I go. I realize that I can buy them from a local fly shop, but it is always more fun to catch a fish on fly that I have tied myself. Can anyone point me to a good source for tying instructions for great lakes steelhead flies? Thanks! Steve Rosenblum Ann Arbor, MI Purple yarn eggs.  They work sweet.

If you can tie a wooley bugger, You’ve mastered the great lakes steelhead fly.  Black, Black, BLack…. Beyond the wooley bugger, egg sucking leeches are most likely my best fly.  THe type we (ontario) use is a black wooley buger with a colored head.  Chartreuse is the best in the fall, but also stock pink, orange, and some "milk" colours.  Size 8 and 10… Also stoneflies, I make a modified Kaufmann’s using raffia folded for the wingcase instead of turkey.  Pheasent Tails in traditional and black work welll, try varing the the color of the thorax..  Same for the stones.   Chartreuse or red works well. Some guys have been doing o.k. with eggs and double egg or spermflies lately.. As for rigging… You will need lots of lead!!!, and flies for that matter.  If your not loosing flies your not in the right spot.  I use a good size float indicator.  However, instead of buying those expensive ones, go to a walleye or hardware trout shop and by some rig floats, a few tooth picks and you set.. Ian

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Question:

I have a kit that we have put together to help you make your own hand held fish net. Ideal for the wader or float tuber.  These nets come in a kit with a net, line to attach the net, formed loop and handle.  You glue them together, file, sand and finish the net. This is as much fun as making your own pole.  If you want more information, or a Kit, please e-mail me and I will send you the information.   The Kits sell for 24.99 plus shipping.

For $25, and I provide the labor, it better be made of zebra wood with a black walnut insert!  Fish through. Charley

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I have a kit that we have put together to help you make your own hand held fish net. Ideal for the wader or float tuber.  These nets come in a kit with a net, line to attach the net, formed loop and handle.  You glue them together, file, sand and finish the net. This is as much fun as making your own pole.  If you want more information, or a Kit, please e-mail me and I will send you the information.   The Kits sell for 24.99 plus shipping.

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Question:

Just got two RPL+ blanks does anyone use these and is their a big differance from the Rpl that I usually use thanks Frank                     /                            /                   /                   Frank Healy            O_ /o         Its so hard to tie those           /|                    flies to the hooks

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Hi Frank, Just got two RPL+ blanks does anyone use these and is their a big differance from the Rpl that I usually use thanks Frank

Well, they’re different, but not *that* different. To over simplify, they made them a bit softer in the tip and a bit stiffer in the butt. They are still, most definitely, RPLish. Best regards,   Alan.   Alan Barnard   Kiene’s Fly Shop   Sacramento, Ca.   WWW Fly Tyer   http://www.ns.net/~barnard

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Hi Frank, Just got two RPL+ blanks does anyone use these and is their a big differance from the Rpl that I usually use thanks Frank

Hi-   Check out the unbiased and candid comparison of RPL+ and RPL III rods at http://www.flyline.com   We used the rods in a variety of conditions ranging from tiny cutthroat streams to large steelhead waters and gave them a pretty stiff, unsubjective analysis. You might be suprised at the result.    Ralph —

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