Question:

I have several week-long gigs coming up in February in Colorado Springs, CO.  It’s a 5 or 6 hour drive from ABQ.  I could also cram my fat butt into a RJ and it is a 1 hour flight (Mesa), or I could take a more comfortable (for me) 737 from ABQ-DEN-COS (United), or ABQ-PHX-COS (America West) and it would take 5 or 6 hours. Of course, that does not include the time spent driving to the airport, parking, checking in, going through security, and then waiting on my half-moons for departing flights / connections. You know what?  I’m driving a rental car.  No revenue for the airlines.  You can blame the TSA – final straw.  If the time spent is more-or-less equal, I’ll drive from now on.  Far less hassle. Of course, I’ll still be flying a lot – some places are just too far away to drive to reasonably.  But when I can, I’ll drive.  Screw the TSA. Best Regards, Bill Mattocks

Response:

fat butt into a RJ and it is a 1 hour flight (Mesa), or I could take a more comfortable (for me) 737 from ABQ-DEN-COS (United), or ABQ-PHX-COS (America West) and it would take 5 or 6 hours.

Or you could make an even bigger statement and take Amtrak Depart Albuquerque at 13:00, arrive Raton at 17.53, leave Raton by bus at 18:00 arrive Colorado Springs at 21:00 Yeah, longer than by car, but on the train ride, you get to travel in a long-haul train with all its services (dining car etc), and I believe that the coach to Cos is a garanteed connection. And your added business to amtrak will be noticed by the government much more than just riding your car which won’t show up in any real statistic. Greyhound  code-shares on T.N.N & O Coaches on a direct Albuquerque -Colorado Springs service with a few departures per day. But they take about the same time as the train. (about 8 hours). I am curious, when you say 5 or 6 hours, does that involve seriously going over the speed limit without any stops ? I am curious as to why a bus would take so much longer (it doesn’t have many stops, check www.greyhound.com) Another option you may consider is to drive around the ABQ airport to get a list of private charter operators (the small planes/airlines nobody knows about). perhaps they run some taxi services or low cost charters which might be feasable for you.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have several week-long gigs coming up in February in Colorado Springs, CO.  It’s a 5 or 6 hour drive from ABQ.  I could also cram my fat butt into a RJ and it is a 1 hour flight (Mesa), or I could take a more comfortable (for me) 737 from ABQ-DEN-COS (United), or ABQ-PHX-COS (America West) and it would take 5 or 6 hours. Of course, that does not include the time spent driving to the airport, parking, checking in, going through security, and then waiting on my half-moons for departing flights / connections. You know what?  I’m driving a rental car.  No revenue for the airlines.  You can blame the TSA – final straw.  If the time spent is more-or-less equal, I’ll drive from now on.  Far less hassle. Of course, I’ll still be flying a lot – some places are just too far away to drive to reasonably.  But when I can, I’ll drive.  Screw the TSA.

   Yup.  Went to Savannah in Dec.  Someone asked why we weren’t flying. It’s a 5 hour trip tops.  To fly means a half hour drive to the airport.  Getting there 1.5 hours prior to departure.  An hour gate to gate.  half hour to collect baggage.  Ya gotta arrange transport to your hotel.  Tops you save maybe an hour flying, and you have to travel on their schedule.  Ya drive, you leave when you want to leave.  You have a car when you get there.  No air traffic delays or weather holds.  No one groping you up and down unless you want them too.  You can carry your swiss army knife with you.  The only really down side is the drive is dull as hell.       For me break even is somewhere around 5 hours.  7 hours is a tad long but in certian situations, preferable.

Response:

I have several week-long gigs coming up in February in Colorado Springs, CO.  It’s a 5 or 6 hour drive from ABQ.  I could also cram my fat butt into a RJ and it is a 1 hour flight (Mesa), or I could take a more comfortable (for me) 737 from ABQ-DEN-COS (United), or ABQ-PHX-COS (America West) and it would take 5 or 6 hours.

No big deal… Twice in the last 15 months, we’ve driven from Central Texas to the castle Rock area North of COS.  850 miles, a really long day’s run, but split between two drivers, not bad, and both times stimulated by the amount "stuff" (and two dogs) we were taking. In late August/early September, Central Texas-Ocala-Orlando- Cocoa-Jax and back, after fuguring projected rental car and air travel costs and considering two weeks worth of luggage including both beach and some rerquiried "dress-up", a decent tradeout. To the coast fishing once a month, a five hundred mile RT, to a destination unserved by air, and why would anybody fly on a business trip that required more than two flights each way yet was less than 4-500 miles away, easy and comfortable one day drives. I suspect that I’m not alone and that a number of business travelers have increased their driving.  Certainly, pleasure travel seems to have to some extent returned to the "car".  The cruise line folks certainly admit to it when they begin to berth cruise ships around the Gulf instead of all in Florida. …and cars are not unlike airlines.  Give me AA economy seat pitch and a larger more comnfortable vehicle. Reductions in service and potential delays now make it very difficult and often very costly for me to get to Chicago, a 4 times a year jaunt, in time to do any business or make an afternoon meeting (except by getting up long pre-dawn and driving 100+ miles to DAL or DFW, not worth the effort), so like Bill, I’ve "slowed" my trips, adding an extra day, leaving late AM and not arriving until the cocktail hour, a less stressful approach. TMO

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You know what?  I’m driving a rental car.

Why a rental car instead of your own car? — Timothy J. Lee Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome. No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.

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You know what?  I’m driving a rental car. Why a rental car instead of your own car?

I am on an expense account.  I get reimbursed for money spent to rent a car, not for driving my own.  And yes, I know I could declare my milage on my income tax return, but my itemized deductions come out WAY less than the standard deduction.  So, best deal for me is to rent.  Plus, I don’t want to wind the miles onto my old beater. Best Regards, Bill Mattocks

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I am curious, when you say 5 or 6 hours, does that involve seriously going over the speed limit without any stops ? I am curious as to why a bus would take so much longer (it doesn’t have many stops, check www.greyhound.com)

Speed limit out here in the Wild West is 75 mph.  For cars.  Trucks and busses have a 65 mph limit.  I set the cruise control at 80 and away I go. Bus?  Um, no.  Train I could do, and have in the distant past.  But no to the bus. I tend to stop in Raton for lunch, get to the Springs by dinner. Works great! Plus, in New Mexico one can carry loaded guns concealed in the car legally.  Considered an extension of hearth and home.  I have to unload and lock it away at the Colorado border, or alternatively keep it in plain sight. Best Regards, Bill Mattocks

Response:

I have several week-long gigs coming up in February in Colorado Springs, CO.  It’s a 5 or 6 hour drive from ABQ.  I could also cram my fat butt into a RJ and it is a 1 hour flight (Mesa),

you sure ’bout that, Bill?  I’d assume that if you flew Mesa ABQ-COS, which would NOT be an HP code-share, but under Mesa’s own code (YV), your fat butt would get to experience the aerial joys of a lovely 19-passenger Beech 1900D rather than a CRJ. On the upside, you’d get to leave ABQ from one of the ground-level commuter gates, which upon my last trip to your home airport seemed to have much less of the TSA, er, ‘presence’.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am curious, when you say 5 or 6 hours, does that involve seriously going over the speed limit without any stops ? I am curious as to why a bus would take so much longer (it doesn’t have many stops, check www.greyhound.com) Speed limit out here in the Wild West is 75 mph.  For cars.  Trucks and busses have a 65 mph limit.  I set the cruise control at 80 and away I go. Bus?  Um, no.  Train I could do, and have in the distant past.  But no to the bus. I tend to stop in Raton for lunch, get to the Springs by dinner. Works great! Plus, in New Mexico one can carry loaded guns concealed in the car legally.  Considered an extension of hearth and home.  I have to unload and lock it away at the Colorado border, or alternatively keep it in plain sight. Best Regards, Bill Mattocks

That’s real good about being able to conceal the gun in New Mexico. You never know when someone may be fucking with you and then you can blast them away to oblivion. John

Response:

What time "going through security"? I haven’t had a security wait of longer than 5 minutes in months. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have several week-long gigs coming up in February in Colorado Springs, CO.  It’s a 5 or 6 hour drive from ABQ.  I could also cram my fat butt into a RJ and it is a 1 hour flight (Mesa), or I could take a more comfortable (for me) 737 from ABQ-DEN-COS (United), or ABQ-PHX-COS (America West) and it would take 5 or 6 hours. Of course, that does not include the time spent driving to the airport, parking, checking in, going through security, and then waiting on my half-moons for departing flights / connections. You know what?  I’m driving a rental car.  No revenue for the airlines.  You can blame the TSA – final straw.  If the time spent is more-or-less equal, I’ll drive from now on.  Far less hassle. Of course, I’ll still be flying a lot – some places are just too far away to drive to reasonably.  But when I can, I’ll drive.  Screw the TSA. Best Regards, Bill Mattocks

Response:

That’s real good about being able to conceal the gun in New Mexico. You never know when someone may be fucking with you and then you can blast them away to oblivion. John

Mr. Novicki, People who live in glass houses should not throw stones. Best Regards, Bill Mattocks

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That’s real good about being able to conceal the gun in New Mexico. You never know when someone may be fucking with you and then you can blast them away to oblivion. John Mr. Novicki, People who live in glass houses should not throw stones. Best Regards, Bill Mattocks

Geez, Bill. That sounds ominous. Does that mean you are coming after me? John

Response:

Traveled in the area a couple months ago; traffic gets heavy around Pueblo, stop and go, with long stop stretches, from south of Colorado Springs to Fort Collins.  According to the local folks, I-25 clears a bit between Fort Collins and Cheyenne, and below Pueblo, the rest is very heavy to stop and go. Bus?  Um, no.  Train I could do, and have in the distant past.  But no to the bus. I tend to stop in Raton for lunch, get to the Springs by dinner. Works great!

– wf. Wayne Flowers Randee Greenwald

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Geez, Bill. That sounds ominous. Does that mean you are coming after me? John

Of course not.  Go on being the angry, vulgar old man you’ve always been, and I’ll go on ignoring you as I did in the past. Best Regards, Bill Mattocks

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Question:

It sounds like that fish needed to be caught like he needed a hole in his head!!! ARG… Eric

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This summer, I either caught or witnessed being caught the same fish 7 different times from the same pool, once each on 7 different fishing trips. The trout had a very unique circular hole in its head, looked like it had been pecked at by a heron. Every visit I made to that pool, either on my own, with a friend, or with a client, resulted in that same fish getting caught. Tim Lysyk timlysyk at telus dot net

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<SNIP. Now the real dilemma. What to do with a dead fish right in front of our campsite knowing that there’s a griz in the area. I slid it back into the water and had a sleepless night.

Its only a dead fish.  There are a lot of other reasons for sleepless nights. Few of them have to do with fish. TL MC

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I don’t have a story to add, but I wanted to write-in to say that this is a darned interesting thread. Keep them coming. Memphis Jim

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – recent threads…. what is the strangest, perhaps the weirdest trout you have caught on the fly? one that always amuses me, and provides fond memories, is a brookie that was taken on up high on the spine of grandfather mountain, up high on boone’s fork… a few years ago… i approached the curvaceous body with eager anticipation. every nerve on edge, every move forsaken, every breath…. well, bated. the body of my desire being that of waterworn, finely sanded granite, obviously the design of a female god…. hence the sexuality….. and obviously, the desire to fondle the trout that lay at the artistic granitic turn in the clear pristine waters beneath the ever-present, prevalent growth of rhododendron. a few here at roff have fished this forlorn yet gorgeous pool…. i have taken them there…. i digress… the cast was adequate. the tippet turned over to present the fly. it stuck….. adhered in a spider’s web strung between some low-riding rhodo branches….  the fly dangling about six inches above the surface of the crisp cool mountain water. shit. i’m flummoxed as to how to loosen the fly without spooking the fish i just know is residing below. i try a soft twitch of my rod, transmitting a soft and gentle energy via the line to the leader, through the hewn tippet knots, onward, ever so craftily to the tippet. the fly sveltely dances, as it precariously dangles from the web…. but does not dislodge. whoosh…. sweet baby jesus…. a take. the brookie has leapt from the depths like a submarine launched missile and taken the fly. once hooked, the darling was brought to hand rather easily, as he was shy of a foot by a few inches. i have never caught a trout like that again, but whenever i see a spider web spun close to the water, i try to recreate the –waldo

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While the legal requirement to return a mortally wounded fish if it’s undersized, or caught in a C&R area, or otherwise "illegal" to keep seems nonsensical at first, but the reason is logical and actually rather obvious. Without the requirement, it would be impossible to enforce the regulations. Also, like Ken and and Jim point out, it also doesn’t do any great harm (although I’m pretty sure Tbone is extremely offended by the practice). I will very occasionally keep a doomed fish caught in C&R waters, but only when I’m damned sure I won’t be caught with it. It does feel somehow ethically wrong to release it, even if it’s legally right.

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  I’ve thought about this a bit since it happened. My first thought was   that it’s pretty damn silly to "waste" a fish that’s already dead   regardless of Park regulations to the contrary. Why not just fry it up   and eat it, especially since putting it back could be considered tempting   fate in grizzly country. But I’ve come around to the position that   considering ME not eating the fish to be the equivalent of "wasting" the   fish is wrongheaded. There are many organisms, from the microscopic to the   aforementioned griz that would consider that carcass a feast. I did the   right thing.   For me, it’s a tough call. Fish dying and returning to the ecosystem is how they evolved, but not returning fish that were killed by angling. I think it’s a weakness of C&R regulation. I think you should keep and eat a fish that’s badly hooked, but like RW said, if that were allowed the regulation would be unenforceable. Willi

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My wife and I fished with a guide in Maine last year. We both made it clear that we were C&R only – something the guide practiced as well. My wife hooked a 10" Brookie as we sailed through some white water. No way to stop, we could only drag the fish behind us. By the time we were through, the rapids had gotten the best of the little Brookie (that and the fact that the fish had taken the fly very deeply for some reason). Then the debate was on – do we keep the little guy (he was under the size limit as I recall) illegally and at least he serves some purpose, or put him back to float down stream. Decided quickly to return him to the ecology. Plenty of things feasted on him. Never regreted it a bit. Course, not the same as a 22" Cutty, but I don’t believe it would have changed my decision. I’m with you Ken. Jim Ray

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … What to do with a dead fish … Shoulda kept it in your tent. Unethical. I’ve thought about this a bit since it happened. My first thought was that it’s pretty damn silly to "waste" a fish that’s already dead regardless of Park regulations to the contrary. Why not just fry it up and eat it, especially since putting it back could be considered tempting fate in grizzly country. But I’ve come around to the position that considering ME not eating the fish to be the equivalent of "wasting" the fish is wrongheaded. There are many organisms, from the microscopic to the aforementioned griz that would consider that carcass a feast. I did the right thing. — Ken Fortenberry

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… What to do with a dead fish … Shoulda kept it in your tent.

Unethical. I’ve thought about this a bit since it happened. My first thought was that it’s pretty damn silly to "waste" a fish that’s already dead regardless of Park regulations to the contrary. Why not just fry it up and eat it, especially since putting it back could be considered tempting fate in grizzly country. But I’ve come around to the position that considering ME not eating the fish to be the equivalent of "wasting" the fish is wrongheaded. There are many organisms, from the microscopic to the aforementioned griz that would consider that carcass a feast. I did the right thing. — Ken Fortenberry

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Now the real dilemma. What to do with a dead fish right in front of our campsite knowing that there’s a griz in the area. I slid it back into the water and had a sleepless night.

Shoulda kept it in your tent.

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recent threads…. what is the strangest, perhaps the weirdest trout you have caught on the fly? …

Slough Creek circa 1980 something, I caught a 22" cutthroat and when I brought it to hand the hopper was impaled on the OUTSIDE of the gill plate. I went to pluck it off only to realize that the fish had inhaled the hopper. The fly had gone in its mouth, out the gills, and then attached itself to the outside. Needless to say, when I plucked at the fly the tippet, which was still in the fishes mouth, sliced through the gills. A bloody mess and I knew I had a dead fish on my hands. My wife, who is normally off doing photography while I fish, was looking on because she was afraid to get off by herself. The rangers had warned us about a female griz in the area. I had to sheepishly admit that I’d killed the fish despite my rather pompous pontificating about C&R around the campfire the night before. Now the real dilemma. What to do with a dead fish right in front of our campsite knowing that there’s a griz in the area. I slid it back into the water and had a sleepless night. — Ken Fortenberry

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recent threads…. what is the strangest, perhaps the weirdest trout you have caught on the fly?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Almost caught…. I was fishing on the N.F. Clearwater below Kelly Forks, casting across a deep pool to a little riff, up comes a 6 inch rainbow. I started pulling the little guy toward me and it dove down about 10 feet away, all of the sudden this 6 inch rainbow was stripping line off my reel. I fought the fish for a few minutes and got it within sight. A bull trout had latched onto the side of the rainbow, I pulled the two fish up and tried to net them, as I went down with the net and the bull trout let go. I stood there with a puzzled look on my face explaining the story to my friend down the way. During out conversation the 6 inch trout was up at the surface swimming around, once again the bull trout came back and latched on. I fought the pair, this time almost netting the fish. Wish I had, the bull trout looked to be in the 25 inch range. I release the rainbow, he seemed to be okay despite the teeth marks in his side. I had read a similar story however, never thought I would experience it first hand.

Had a customer hook a 14" cutthroat on the Blackfoot once. As he was bringing it in a very large pike took the trout and held on for a good ten minutes. We worked him into an eddy but couldn’t even begin to get him even half into the net (which will hold fish in the 18" to 22" range without difficulty). He finally let go after several attempts just to scoop him up onto the bank. We didn’t want to scoop him into the inflatable raft we were drifting in. The trout was trashed but, due to catch-and-release regs, we had to release it. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

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This summer, I either caught or witnessed being caught the same fish 7 different times from the same pool, once each on 7 different fishing trips. The trout had a very unique circular hole in its head, looked like it had been pecked at by a heron. Every visit I made to that pool, either on my own, with a friend, or with a client, resulted in that same fish getting caught. Tim Lysyk timlysyk at telus dot net

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— Fly fishing is the most fun you can have … standing up.   Greg

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – recent threads…. what is the strangest, perhaps the weirdest trout you have caught on the fly? one that always amuses me, and provides fond memories, is a brookie that was taken on up high on the spine of grandfather mountain, up high on boone’s fork… a few years ago… i approached the curvaceous body with eager anticipation. every nerve on edge, every move forsaken, every breath…. well, bated. the body of my desire being that of waterworn, finely sanded granite, obviously the design of a female god…. hence the sexuality….. and obviously, the desire to fondle the trout that lay at the artistic granitic turn in the clear pristine waters beneath the ever-present, prevalent growth of rhododendron. a few here at roff have fished this forlorn yet gorgeous pool…. i have taken them there…. i digress… the cast was adequate. the tippet turned over to present the fly. it stuck….. adhered in a spider’s web strung between some low-riding rhodo branches….  the fly dangling about six inches above the surface of the crisp cool mountain water. shit. i’m flummoxed as to how to loosen the fly without spooking the fish i just know is residing below. i try a soft twitch of my rod, transmitting a soft and gentle energy via the line to the leader, through the hewn tippet knots, onward, ever so craftily to the tippet. the fly sveltely dances, as it precariously dangles from the web…. but does not dislodge. whoosh…. sweet baby jesus…. a take. the brookie has leapt from the depths like a submarine launched missile and taken the fly. once hooked, the darling was brought to hand rather easily, as he was shy of a foot by a few inches. i have never caught a trout like that again, but whenever i see a spider web spun close to the water, i try to recreate the –waldo

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is that what they call guiness out yer way? ;^) –waldo

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snip< i have never caught a trout like that again, but whenever i see a spider web spun close to the water, i try to recreate the

You recreated the scene nicely IMHO.  :-) Joe F.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – recent threads…. what is the strangest, perhaps the weirdest trout you have caught on the fly? one that always amuses me, and provides fond memories, is a brookie that was taken on up high on the spine of grandfather mountain, up high on boone’s fork… a few years ago… i approached the curvaceous body with eager anticipation. every nerve on edge, every move forsaken, every breath…. well, bated. the body of my desire being that of waterworn, finely sanded granite, obviously the design of a female god…. hence the sexuality….. and obviously, the desire to fondle the trout that lay at the artistic granitic turn in the clear pristine waters beneath the ever-present, prevalent growth of rhododendron. a few here at roff have fished this forlorn yet gorgeous pool…. i have taken them there…. i digress… the cast was adequate. the tippet turned over to present the fly. it stuck….. adhered in a spider’s web strung between some low-riding rhodo branches….  the fly dangling about six inches above the surface of the crisp cool mountain water. shit. i’m flummoxed as to how to loosen the fly without spooking the fish i just know is residing below. i try a soft twitch of my rod, transmitting a soft and gentle energy via the line to the leader, through the hewn tippet knots, onward, ever so craftily to the tippet. the fly sveltely dances, as it precariously dangles from the web…. but does not dislodge. whoosh…. sweet baby jesus…. a take. the brookie has leapt from the depths like a submarine launched missile and taken the fly. once hooked, the darling was brought to hand rather easily, as he was shy of a foot by a few inches. i have never caught a trout like that again, but whenever i see a spider web spun close to the water, i try to recreate the –waldo

This shouldn’t count, but I was fishing a sulfur nymph, and got caught on bottom.  When I checked the hook after I got it unstuck, there was a natural sulfur nymph nicely threaded on the hook — Scott Reverse first field of address to reply

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I also caught the same fish that previously broke off but it wasn’t a trout but a pike.  I was fishing for trout though.  I got my fly back  when I caught the pike again. Next best one is my son caught a fish (cutthroat)  that was attached to a bait fisherman’s bobber (without the bait fisherman) that was swimming around the lake.  He used his fly rod to snag the bobber and bring the fish in. Eric

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – about a 15 inch pod Bow at Silver Creek He ate the exact same pattern I had broken off in his mouth about 5, no more than 10 minutes earlier … the fly was still there and a unique pattern, so I’m sure it was the same fish. I was very surprised that he was still feeding, let alone that he would take the same fly … he broke off after a decent fight, and I figured he was sulking somewhere.. Ditto, a small brown on the Onion just outside Sheboygan, WI.  Took a Pass Lake and broke me off under a bridge just as we started fishing. Coming back an hour and a half later, I got my fly back. Stranger still (though by no means all that rare….in some waters anyway) are the brookies that pounce from the sky.  DAMNED hard to get used to! Wolfgang

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Very detailed writing….ever consider writing for Penthouse?  :) The weirdest thing I’ve caught with a fly is,… well…, my brother. Double weird, considering he is a major league entaphobic.  "It kinda makes it worse when you keep slapping the damn thing like it is alive." Twice on the same lake I caught two bass on a bait with two treble hooks. And once, on the same lake, I caught a bass by it being "lipped" between the split ring of the lure and the lure’s diving lip. Scott

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – recent threads…. what is the strangest, perhaps the weirdest trout you have caught on the fly? one that always amuses me, and provides fond memories, is a brookie that was taken on up high on the spine of grandfather mountain, up high on boone’s fork… a few years ago… i approached the curvaceous body with eager anticipation. every nerve on edge, every move forsaken, every breath…. well, bated. the body of my desire being that of waterworn, finely sanded granite, obviously the design of a female god…. hence the sexuality….. and obviously, the desire to fondle the trout that lay at the artistic granitic turn in the clear pristine waters beneath the ever-present, prevalent growth of rhododendron. a few here at roff have fished this forlorn yet gorgeous pool…. i have taken them there…. i digress… the cast was adequate. the tippet turned over to present the fly. it stuck….. adhered in a spider’s web strung between some low-riding rhodo branches….  the fly dangling about six inches above the surface of the crisp cool mountain water. shit. i’m flummoxed as to how to loosen the fly without spooking the fish i just know is residing below. i try a soft twitch of my rod, transmitting a soft and gentle energy via the line to the leader, through the hewn tippet knots, onward, ever so craftily to the tippet. the fly sveltely dances, as it precariously dangles from the web…. but does not dislodge. whoosh…. sweet baby jesus…. a take. the brookie has leapt from the depths like a submarine launched missile and taken the fly. once hooked, the darling was brought to hand rather easily, as he was shy of a foot by a few inches. i have never caught a trout like that again, but whenever i see a spider web spun close to the water, i try to recreate the –waldo

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Almost caught…. I was fishing on the N.F. Clearwater below Kelly Forks, casting across a deep pool to a little riff, up comes a 6 inch rainbow. I started pulling the little guy toward me and it dove down about 10 feet away, all of the sudden this 6 inch rainbow was stripping line off my reel. I fought the fish for a few minutes and got it within sight. A bull trout had latched onto the side of the rainbow, I pulled the two fish up and tried to net them, as I went down with the net and the bull trout let go. I stood there with a puzzled look on my face explaining the story to my friend down the way. During out conversation the 6 inch trout was up at the surface swimming around, once again the bull trout came back and latched on. I fought the pair, this time almost netting the fish. Wish I had, the bull trout looked to be in the 25 inch range. I release the rainbow, he seemed to be okay despite the teeth marks in his side. I had read a similar story however, never thought I would experience it first hand. JRT – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – recent threads…. what is the strangest, perhaps the weirdest trout you have caught on the fly? one that always amuses me, and provides fond memories, is a brookie that was taken on up high on the spine of grandfather mountain, up high on boone’s fork… a few years ago… i approached the curvaceous body with eager anticipation. every nerve on edge, every move forsaken, every breath…. well, bated. the body of my desire being that of waterworn, finely sanded granite, obviously the design of a female god…. hence the sexuality….. and obviously, the desire to fondle the trout that lay at the artistic granitic turn in the clear pristine waters beneath the ever-present, prevalent growth of rhododendron. a few here at roff have fished this forlorn yet gorgeous pool…. i have taken them there…. i digress… the cast was adequate. the tippet turned over to present the fly. it stuck….. adhered in a spider’s web strung between some low-riding rhodo branches….  the fly dangling about six inches above the surface of the crisp cool mountain water. shit. i’m flummoxed as to how to loosen the fly without spooking the fish i just know is residing below. i try a soft twitch of my rod, transmitting a soft and gentle energy via the line to the leader, through the hewn tippet knots, onward, ever so craftily to the tippet. the fly sveltely dances, as it precariously dangles from the web…. but does not dislodge. whoosh…. sweet baby jesus…. a take. the brookie has leapt from the depths like a submarine launched missile and taken the fly. once hooked, the darling was brought to hand rather easily, as he was shy of a foot by a few inches. i have never caught a trout like that again, but whenever i see a spider web spun close to the water, i try to recreate the –waldo

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recent threads…. what is the strangest, perhaps the weirdest trout you have caught on the fly?

Walt, The weirdest trout I ever caught was a pike  =) To make short sentence, like the above, a bit longer story: I had noticed a feeding trout picking spent spinners on the neck of a riffle for about five minutes. This was in Savar Creek outside Umea in northern Sweden. After seing the trout rise for its fifth or sixth time I decided to give it a try. The trout looked as if it could be of some nicer size and I did everything I could to get it right. After a diagonal downstream cast with a reach mend I saw the fish rise and take my fly. I striked and felt a heavy weight at the end of my line. To my surprise the initial rush that so often comes when hooking trout was totally absent. I called out to my friend Fred that I had hooked a relly nice trout, but that it was acting a bit strange. Fred, who of course got interested, hurried over to watch the fight. I shouldn’t have called out to him……he makes me eat my words every now and then, and if I actually do hook a trout he usually makes remarks about a lb3 pike ( /Roger

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recent threads…. what is the strangest, perhaps the weirdest trout you have caught on the fly? one that always amuses me, and provides fond memories, is a brookie that was taken on up high on the spine of grandfather mountain, up high on boone’s fork… a few years ago… i approached the curvaceous body with eager anticipation. every nerve on edge, every move forsaken, every breath…. well, bated. the body of my desire being that of waterworn, finely sanded granite, obviously the design of a female god…. hence the sexuality….. and obviously, the desire to fondle the trout that lay at the artistic granitic turn in the clear pristine waters beneath the ever-present, prevalent growth of rhododendron. a few here at roff have fished this forlorn yet gorgeous pool…. i have taken them there…. i digress… the cast was adequate. the tippet turned over to present the fly. it stuck….. adhered in a spider’s web strung between some low-riding rhodo branches….  the fly dangling about six inches above the surface of the crisp cool mountain water. shit. i’m flummoxed as to how to loosen the fly without spooking the fish i just know is residing below. i try a soft twitch of my rod, transmitting a soft and gentle energy via the line to the leader, through the hewn tippet knots, onward, ever so craftily to the tippet. the fly sveltely dances, as it precariously dangles from the web…. but does not dislodge. whoosh…. sweet baby jesus…. a take. the brookie has leapt from the depths like a submarine launched missile and taken the fly. once hooked, the darling was brought to hand rather easily, as he was shy of a foot by a few inches. i have never caught a trout like that again, but whenever i see a spider web spun close to the water, i try to recreate the –waldo

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recent threads…. [slightly disturbing scenic snipped] i digress… the cast was adequate. the tippet turned over to present the fly. it stuck….. adhered in a spider’s web strung between some low-riding rhodo branches….  the fly dangling about six inches above the surface of the crisp cool mountain water.

A nymph under a Royal Wulff, a backwater edged with grassy tussocks, the flys just beyond one in the water one over it, a fish rose to the Wulff missed, landed on the tippett with the nymph dropper, flipped the nymph over its back and caught the tippett in the bend. This noose tightened on the fish behind the pecs and in front of the dorsal. My first and probably last lassooed fish – don’t do droppers much now. Steve (Look ma! no hands!)

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about a 15 inch pod Bow at Silver Creek He ate the exact same pattern I had broken off in his mouth about 5, no more than 10 minutes earlier … the fly was still there and a unique pattern, so I’m sure it was the same fish. I was very surprised that he was still feeding, let alone that he would take the same fly … he broke off after a decent fight, and I figured he was sulking somewhere.. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

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about a 15 inch pod Bow at Silver Creek He ate the exact same pattern I had broken off in his mouth about 5, no more than 10 minutes earlier … the fly was still there and a unique pattern, so I’m sure it was the same fish. I was very surprised that he was still feeding, let alone that he would take the same fly … he broke off after a decent fight, and I figured he was sulking somewhere..

Ditto, a small brown on the Onion just outside Sheboygan, WI.  Took a Pass Lake and broke me off under a bridge just as we started fishing. Coming back an hour and a half later, I got my fly back. Stranger still (though by no means all that rare….in some waters anyway) are the brookies that pounce from the sky.  DAMNED hard to get used to! Wolfgang

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anyway) are the brookies that pounce from the sky.  DAMNED hard to get used to! Wolfgang

dang …not a trout …but was a fly trying to shoot a small hair Bass bug under a bush tight to the bank I missed and the bug hung up in the bush … I fiddled and fiddled trying to get it loose.  It was "weedless" and I moved it from limb to limb.  It was a good foot out of the water …. when a Bass came out and grabbed it <g not a big Bass but it made me shout and whoop ( and I hate it when guys shout when they hookup, very annoying   —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

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recent threads…. what is the strangest, perhaps the weirdest trout you have caught on the fly?

a few The Greediest – on Snowbird using the NC dry, dropper, I had a nice brookie on the dry and as I lift and reach for him, he wiggles off the dry, drops into the water only to be lifted back out by the dropper stuck firmly inside his jaw.  The greedy little bugger had taken the dropper on the way up to the dry. The Ugliest – A brown on Penns of about 14" whose lower jaw had been broken at the point early in its life and it had grown into an "X". The Best Jumper – A baby steelie of about 8" that I noticed jumping and taking mayflies on the wing.  I stood upstream and upwind of him, letting the dry bounce around in the wind – he leapt clean out of the water and took it. The Most Persistent – A Grand River brown of about 12" who chased, swirled and missed my mini-brown three times, covering the full width of the pool in his chase, only to be hooked on his fourth lunge. The Fastest – That JATO equipped steelie at Altmar. No sex in the pool though.   Damn southern guys get all the sexy pools.  :( Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Question:

Certainly does sound as if you were snorting something or other! A most attractive Aardvark lives just across the way, and being polite I sometimes stop, to pass the time of day. she has some awkward habits though, she likes snorting ants, but when you find aardvarks attractive, this just tightens up your pants. One takes more care in ones appearance, sports dentures and toupee and a surgically lengthened nose of course, is a real hit right away. I really wanted to be an orca, but my paltry fishing skills will not suffice, its very difficult to cast with fins as well, and the operation has its price. And so I am stuck with aardvarks, and am sometimes moved to prose, when a large and  juicy termite is sucked loudly up my nose, this often makes my poor eyes water, and you need a lot of wipes, zebras have it better, but its just too hard to transplant stripes. I have been approached by possums too, invited to their lair, but I think this may be mainly due, to my artificial hair, Gummy bears have also been sniffing around of late, but I just take out my dentures then, and leave them on the plate. This discourages such advances, and is really quite a lark, but when I forget to put them in again, it upsets my aardvark. I am proud of my proboscis now, it cost a pretty penny too, the only disadvantage now, is that I live in the local zoo. TL MC — "If you have tried everything you know, and nothing works, then perhaps it is time to accept that you don

Question:

Hi Indy; I live in Wisconsin.  While some folks here may disapprove of fishing for gills on the redds, it’s certainly not true of all of us.  Most of the people I know do it.  The limit for bluegills has been reduced to 25 per day in Wisconsin; still more than enough, I think.  I can’t fault anything else you have to say on the subject, but personally I prefer to use lighter tippet…2 or 3 lb.  I believe it spooks the fish less and makes it easier to use tiny flies effectively.  I also like to gut and scale the fish rather than filleting because you always lose some of the meat when you fillet, and I want it all!

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Hi Indy; I live in Wisconsin.  While some folks here may disapprove of fishing for gills on the redds, it’s certainly not true of all of us.  Most of the people I know do it.  The limit for bluegills has been reduced to 25 per day in Wisconsin; still more than enough, I think.  I can’t fault anything else you have to say on the subject, but personally I prefer to use lighter tippet…2 or 3 lb.  I believe it spooks the fish less and makes it easier to use tiny flies effectively.  I also like to gut and scale the fish rather than filleting because you always lose some of the meat when you fillet, and I want it all!

Hi Wolfgang, I sometimes go to 4 lb. but that 2 to 3 lb. line breaks too often on big gills, especially here in Florida.  I had to go to my 8 weight fly rod and 6 lb. leader just to get those big ones out of the weeds. The lighter leader just doesn’t get it.  Those big gills are bedding here right now, by the way, and I’m going out this morning.  Fried a mess of fillets on Sunday night.  Tres bon!  There are some excellent big bluegill holes in Badger State up in Douglas Co. where I formerly lived.  Sorry I got the ‘gill limit wrong.  Things change.  Best wishes. — Don Jordan "The Real Indiana Jones" http://realindy.com

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Hi all. Just wondering when do you like to fish for gills. I live in West Michigan.  Please give me a tip. Thank you.

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my best gills are caught in mid may to end of june

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Anytime, anywhere!  Here in Wisconsin (and in Michigan, I believe) there is no closed season on bluegills.  A lot of people like to fish for them through the ice and they get a lot of them that way.  Personally, I don’t care for hard water fishing…too cold standing out on the ice…but to each his own.  I started fly fishing about fifteen years ago and quickly discovered that it is THE best method for catching bluegills; they LOVE bugs.  The best fishing is in the early mornings and late evenings during the spawning season.  Bluegills are very aggressive about protecting their redds.  I have seen them come up off the nest and bite ducks who happened to swimming nearby.  Apparently even small bugs are seen as a threat and are vigorously attacked.  For reasons unknown to me the average size of fish I catch is considerably greater during the spawn too.  Maybe because it’s the biggest that do most of the breeding.  Here in Southern Wisconsin the gills spawn early, starting sometime in May most years, though it varies a bit according to the weather.  When I lived up in the central part of the state a few years ago it was usually late May or early June.  And of course, in the northern reaches of WI and MI it will be later yet. The hot fishing lasts until the beginning of the hot weather of summer, at which time things taper off somewhat, though there are still days when the action can be phenomenal. All in all, I think the best policy is to get out and fish whenever possible.  Regardless of all other considerations, the people who catch the most fish are the ones who spend the most time fishing.  If you have never used a fly rod for bluegills, do so as soon as possible!  It’s about the most fun I’ve ever had without being naked, and as a matter of fact…..uh…..hm….maybe we won’t go there. Good luck. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all. Just wondering when do you like to fish for gills. I live in West Michigan.  Please give me a tip. Thank you.

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I grew up in LaPorte, Indiana (somewhat close to West Michigan). In LaPorte, we have a lot of lakes.  I don’t live there now unfortunately or I’d be fishing every weekend! When I grew up, my father, grandfather and I used to fish all the time…we caught bluegill and perch from March all the way through to October.  The best times seemed to be spring and fall. And, we found that the best nearly always tended to be worms dug up from the garden or there were times when grubs were the best. Ted Hi all. Just wondering when do you like to fish for gills. I live in West Michigan.  Please give me a tip. Thank you.

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Hi all. Just wondering when do you like to fish for gills. I live in West Michigan.  Please give me a tip. Thank you.

Hi Trudude, The absolute very best time to catch bluegill is when they are bedding. I know some guys up north may abhor this practice, but it is the standard approach everywhere from Illinois to Florida.  They bed in shallow water and their nests are usually visible.  The most fun is to catch them on a fly rod.  If you’re in a lake with huge gills in the 10 plus inch category, you will want at least a no.5 weight rod and at least 6 lb. test leader.  I like small poppers and foam body spiders,,,green, white, black, yellow.  Sometimes a sinking fly will work better.  I have had great sucess on a standard trout nymph with just a tiny, tiny bit of weight on it.  If you aren’t a fly guy, get an ultralight spinning outfit and cast 1/32nd jigs or 1/32nd oz. spinner baits.  If you’re a live bait guy, crickets are best during spawn, but anything will work.  Redworms when it is slow, on the bottom. Go to http://realindy.com/Previous.htm  read about casting jigs and spinners for bluegill.  Good pix too. Bluegill spawn from Florida to Ontario, beginning in April in the South, but probably peak out in May/June at your lattitude with emphasis on June.  They are the most active during the full moon. Bluegill are far and away the best eating fish extant, in my opinion, and most ‘gill anglers like them filleted rather than beheaded,scaled and gutted, etc.  There are no bag limits on them in the South, but Wisconsin had a 50-fish limit when I lived there. Catching big bluegill on light tackle is the most fun I have every year, and that’s counting fly fishing for trout in the Rockies and muskies in northern Wisconsin.  A 10-inch bluegill puts up an incredible fight and if you ever hit those 11 and 12 inch hogs, buddy they will flat whip your butt! I hope you catch a big mess of ‘em this spring.  Happy dining! — Don Jordan "The Real Indiana Jones" http://realindy.com

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Sorry about the 2 messages, but, bluegill aren’t hard to catch, as a matter of fact they’re quite easy.

When they’re biting. There are times when they’re just not interested. —  << << << << << << << <<  << << << << << << << <<

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About you r bluegill fishing.

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Sorry about the 2 messages, but, bluegill aren’t hard to catch, as a matter of fact they’re quite easy. That’s just about the only thing I catch. All you have to do is find a school of bluegill, put a bobber on and a small jig. (Make sure your bobber is situated right. They feed by the bottom or in the middle of the water). cast out in the school and wait. ( oh yes I forgot the most important part : Hook a Berkley "smelly" plastic worm on the jig. they come in swirly tails and grug. use the swirly tails.

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Question:

Does this mean I need new rings or pistons? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Unless the motor was rebuilt it has high ring pistons. Johnson/evin used these ring from 1977 thru part of 1980 The problem they often self distruct.

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Well many say don’t fix if not broke. I would run the motor myself, if it did snap a ring down the road i would then decide what to do. I would get the motor out for a run before putting much into it. Make sure carbs are clean fuel pump is good water pump is good.  Check oil in lower unit and change. MAKE SURE YOU DON"T BURN 3 YEAR OLD GAS. Out of all the motors I have torn down old gas/oil seems to be the #1 cause of death. You can tell what pistons you have by pulling the bypass covers.

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!!  200 HP Evenrude Rehab, am I an Idiot? I just picked up a 1978 200 hp evenrude outboard.  Am I an idiot? looks very ugly. I think a family of mice has been living in it for about five years. On the positive side the guy packed it up each year with oil ingested through the carbs. The fly wheel turns freely. Any opinions? I’m looking for some cheep power for my 22 ft fishing boat. What are the chances this motor will work out?  Any suggestions for rehabbing procedure? Rick Pickford

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Hi Rick,   You might take a compression test, check the fuel filter, lower unit and so forth but when all is said and done try it out! Hopefully you might be  happily surprised.  Good Luck      Jake

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Unless the motor was rebuilt it has high ring pistons. Johnson/evin used these ring from 1977 thru part of 1980 The problem they often self distruct.

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!!  200 HP Evenrude Rehab, am I an Idiot? I just picked up a 1978 200 hp evenrude outboard.  Am I an idiot? looks very ugly. I think a family of mice has been living in it for about five years. On the positive side the guy packed it up each year with oil ingested through the carbs. The fly wheel turns freely. Any opinions? I’m looking for some cheep power for my 22 ft fishing boat. What are the chances this motor will work out?  Any suggestions for rehabbing procedure? Rick Pickford

I would run the motor until it blows up.  It could last you ten minutes or ten years; you won’t know until you try it.  There are still plenty of motors of that vintage still purring away. Before sinking a bunch of cash in it, check the compression on each cylinder.  I don’t know what the specs are, but I would imagine somewhare between 85 and 115 pounds per hole.  Remember to have the throttle wide open when you do this.  If the compression varies by more than 10 pounds per hole you probably have some internal problems (stuck rings, burned piston, …). Then it is up to you if you should proceed further or just junk it for parts. Assuming that you want to proceed:b Before you crank it up, do this: 1) Take all the carbs off and clean them/rebuild them.  This might be a job for professional if you don’t know what you are doing. If one of the carbs gets junked up, which it probably did after setting for a gazillion years it may run semi-decent, but run lean in a cylinder and hence fry a hole. Change the lower unit lube. Pull the lower unit, clean and grease the drive shaft spline and replace the water pump. Grease all the other fitings; swivel bracket, tilt-tube, throttle and shifter linkage, …. Pull the starter, remove the bendix, clean, regrease. Pull the prop, clean and grease the spline. Check all the electrical connections on the powerhead for corrosion, being loose and just plain where they are supposed to be. In short, go through the typcial pre-season drill.  Any sort of OMC service shop should be able to do this for you for a reaonable amount of cash. Put extra fresh gas in it.  I would run more than 50:1 for the first tank; go with somewhare between double the oil and the recommended amount just to make sure that everything is lubed up properly. Fire it up and see what she does. Good luck.

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Question:

I read somewhere that using Armour-All will make your line more susceptible to UV damage.  I can’t remember the source, but it stuck in my head. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some old fart (hope he doesn’t read this NG) here in Boulder taught me this one: When your line gets grungy and needs some TLC, soak a soft cloth in Armour-all and wipe the grime off. This not only cleans your fly line, but it lubes it up so it slides through the guides with ease. Ben Holmes Boulder, CO

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I thought that this NG decided about 12 months ago that Amour-all wasn’t the best thing for fly lines Okay, so we’ve decided that Armour-All sucks. Now… what about Murphy’s Oil-Soap. It cleans every thing else known to man. Why not clean fly lines?

Don’t know about Murphy’s specifically, but what I’ve seen is that the best line cleaner is soap and water.  YMMV. — Bob Jarvis Mail address hacked to foil spammers!

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I’ve used Armor-all on my fly lines too, and it works well. BUt, there are ecological factors to think about when using such a product.  Armor-all doesn’t have alcohol or solvents, but I’m sure there are trace elements of toxins to fish. I’d much rather be safe than sorry.   Tim: Nobody told me that. I’ve been doing this to my 444 lines for three seasons (years) now and I have to report that I’m on my 4th season (year) with two of them. They still float, they slide like grease through a goose through my guides, and they are in one nice shiny piece. Armour All is a water based silicone solution, not at all unlike other dressings that cost much more. If the NG has decided that it is bad for my lines, well, someone should have told that to my lines.

John W. Kramer                           Clearwater Outfitters                   WE ENDORSE CATCH AND RELEASE (717) 938-3423

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Ohhh NOOOOOOOO,  Here we go again – this thread comes up all the time !!! DO NOT use Armour All – use soapy (read dish detergent) water and then just dry the line – like by casting it a few times. AA will build up and wreck your line’s finish after a while and if you live where there is no year round fishing it will gum up on the reel after time. That’s all I’m gonna say this time (see I can restrain myself gang) Bill Some old fart (hope he doesn’t read this NG) here in Boulder taught me this one: When your line gets grungy and needs some TLC, soak a soft cloth in Armour-all and wipe the grime off. This not only cleans your fly line, but it lubes it up so it slides through the guides with ease. Ben Holmes Boulder, CO

– Bill Curry Tight Lines Guide Service Lockeport, Nova Scotia, Canada http://www.tightlines.ns.ca

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I thought that this NG decided about 12 months ago that Amour-all wasn’t the best thing for fly lines

Okay, so we’ve decided that Armour-All sucks. Now… what about Murphy’s Oil-Soap. It cleans every thing else known to man. Why not clean fly lines? Bryce

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Tim: Nobody told me that. I’ve been doing this to my 444 lines for three seasons (years) now and I have to report that I’m on my 4th season (year) with two of them. They still float, they slide like grease through a goose through my guides, and they are in one nice shiny piece. Armour All is a water based silicone solution, not at all unlike other dressings that cost much more. If the NG has decided that it is bad for my lines, well, someone should have told that to my lines. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This thread again? I thought that this NG decided about 12 months ago that Amour-all wasn’t the best thing for fly lines — Tim Wohlford header return goes to a nasty spammer…. Uh Oh!  Here we go again! Bob Scott  (guilty in the past)

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I thought that this NG decided about 12 months ago that Amour-all wasn’t the best thing for fly lines

Yes, for only the third or fourth time since ‘94 that I’m aware of. Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools Mt. Shasta Fly Fishing Schools http://www.thegrid.net/flyfish

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Jesus H. Christ on a crutch!!  I’m on Social Security and that definitely  puts me in the old fart category, which By God, I worked for, and am proud  of!  Why is it these politically correct weenies feel they have to step in  "mind our manners for us?"  Enough of this crap already!!  Chances are,   that old fart Ben alludes to couldn’t care less that moniker is applied   to him, and if he did, isn’t it HIS place to make the admonishment? And   I’m sure you PC weenies noticed I took the Lord’s name in vain, at this   age, I’ll do anything I damn well please, PC’ers can stuff it. Get a life!   There, I feel better now. Where the hell are my crutches?   Frank (politically incorrect) in Elkhart, IN – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Ben, Some manners, please?   A great many in this group fall into what you seem to think is an age group to insult. Everybody is heading for that time of life.  Take a look forward, if you can. When you say you hope "he" doesn’t read this NG, you show that you realize you’re using a derisive term. How about if we all try to make the world, and especially the flyfishing world, a better world? If you appreciate what "he" taught you, why not call him "some nice old guy?" Regards, Jess Some old fart (hope he doesn’t read this NG) here in Boulder taught me this one: When your line gets grungy and needs some TLC, soak a soft cloth in Armour-all and wipe the grime off. This not only cleans your fly line, but it lubes it up so it slides through the guides with ease. Ben Holmes Boulder, CO

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jesus H. Christ on a crutch!!  I’m on Social Security and that definitely  puts me in the old fart category, which By God, I worked for, and am proud  of!  Why is it these politically correct weenies feel they have to step in  "mind our manners for us?"  Enough of this crap already!!  Chances are,   that old fart Ben alludes to couldn’t care less that moniker is applied   to him, and if he did, isn’t it HIS place to make the admonishment? And   I’m sure you PC weenies noticed I took the Lord’s name in vain, at this   age, I’ll do anything I damn well please, PC’ers can stuff it. Get a life!   There, I feel better now. Where the hell are my crutches?   Frank (politically incorrect) in Elkhart, IN

       Three cheers; I rather refer to myself as an oldy but goody, however if refered to affectionatly as an old fart I’ll take that. Weuns older guys, by reason of survival and longevity have earned the right to accept any name we choose. That said, this farts for you.                                                       John Popp                                                      in Sanford Fl.

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I think there is confusion here about Armour All. I am confused too. Isnt there a bunch of stuff in spray bottles called Armour All? The cleaners are solvents and bad on lines. The preservatives are water based and don’t clean but rather make plastic etc shine. I’m sure there is more then one product. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tim: Nobody told me that. I’ve been doing this to my 444 lines for three seasons (years) now and I have to report that I’m on my 4th season (year) with two of them. They still float, they slide like grease through a goose through my guides, and they are in one nice shiny piece. Armour All is a water based silicone solution, not at all unlike other dressings that cost much more. If the NG has decided that it is bad for my lines, well, someone should have told that to my lines. This thread again? I thought that this NG decided about 12 months ago that Amour-all wasn’t the best thing for fly lines — Tim Wohlford header return goes to a nasty spammer…. Uh Oh!  Here we go again! Bob Scott  (guilty in the past)

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Ummmm, Jesse, no harm meant – the old fart is my dad. Fact is he did read it, and it was his advice for you to lighten up just a bit. But, to keep from rubbing you into a chaffe I’ll refer to him as "some nice old guy" from this day forward. Regards, Ben – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Ben, Some manners, please?   A great many in this group fall into what you seem to think is an age group to insult. Everybody is heading for that time of life.  Take a look forward, if you can. When you say you hope "he" doesn’t read this NG, you show that you realize you’re using a derisive term. How about if we all try to make the world, and especially the flyfishing world, a better world? If you appreciate what "he" taught you, why not call him "some nice old guy?" Regards, Jess Some old fart (hope he doesn’t read this NG) here in Boulder taught me this one: When your line gets grungy and needs some TLC, soak a soft cloth in Armour-all and wipe the grime off. This not only cleans your fly line, but it lubes it up so it slides through the guides with ease. Ben Holmes Boulder, CO

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Some old fart (hope he doesn’t read this NG) here in Boulder taught me this one: When your line gets grungy and needs some TLC, soak a soft cloth in Armour-all and wipe the grime off. This not only cleans your fly line, but it lubes it up so it slides through the guides with ease. Ben Holmes Boulder, CO

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Uh Oh!  Here we go again! Bob Scott  (guilty in the past)

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Some old fart (hope he doesn’t read this NG) here in Boulder taught me this one: When your line gets grungy and needs some TLC, soak a soft cloth in Armour-all and wipe the grime off. This not only cleans your fly line, but it lubes it up so it slides through the guides with ease.

So being an old fart: 1.  He probably had a secret stash of ancient Armorall of "classic formulation."  After long debate, posters seem to agree the Armorall you can buy nowadays damages the finish on the fly lines you can buy nowadays. 2.  He did not think of soap.  The best way to clean normal angling dirt off fly lines is to wash them with dilute liquid detergent. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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This thread again? I thought that this NG decided about 12 months ago that Amour-all wasn’t the best thing for fly lines — Tim Wohlford header return goes to a nasty spammer…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some old fart (hope he doesn’t read this NG) here in Boulder taught me this one: When your line gets grungy and needs some TLC, soak a soft cloth in Armour-all and wipe the grime off. This not only cleans your fly line, but it lubes it up so it slides through the guides with ease. Ben Holmes Boulder, CO

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Hi Ben, Some manners, please?   A great many in this group fall into what you seem to think is an age group to insult.   Everybody is heading for that time of life.  Take a look forward, if you can. When you say you hope "he" doesn’t read this NG, you show that you realize you’re using a derisive term. How about if we all try to make the world, and especially the flyfishing world, a better world? If you appreciate what "he" taught you, why not call him "some nice old guy?" Regards, Jess – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some old fart (hope he doesn’t read this NG) here in Boulder taught me this one: When your line gets grungy and needs some TLC, soak a soft cloth in Armour-all and wipe the grime off. This not only cleans your fly line, but it lubes it up so it slides through the guides with ease. Ben Holmes Boulder, CO

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Question:

I recently moved to a place where I’ve got some decent smallmouth fishing very close by.  Hooked a few before the cold set in, but I don’t feel like I have a sense of how to fish for them.  This river–the Fox, in northern Illinois–is fairly slow and shallow with

David     I have been flyfishing for Delaware River smallmouth for over thirty years and I am possessed  …. and you can find me wet wading ( I really hate waders) 4 to 5 days a week every week until the  water gets too damn cold to wade  ( ~ first week in October). My experience has been that if it is too cold to wet wade… the smallmouth are too cold to bite… You catch a few  but nothing like in warm water coditions. In fact I have had 60 fish days with the water temp in the mid 80’s during the day fishing the riffle areas…. and wet wading under these conditions is almost like sex. Sometimes you just lay in the rapids on your back and cast or swim /float from rock to rock….. Can’t do that with waders ! My favorite smallmouth fishing is late  May and then late summer when the caddis flies hatch. The smallies lign up in fairly shallow, not too swift water and dimple.. You can no way judge the size of the fish by it’s tiny dimple… You would swear you were trout spotting.. I tie all my own flies and have found the following work the best.  caddis flie imitations work well as well as muddlers but sometimes matching the hatch is necessary. During summer the fish like wooly buggers etc. better , except towards evening then go on top with pencil poppers , snaeky pete types ~ 1 1/2 long ( including tail). I tie my pencil poppers with Maribou tails because they have better action. . give it a go !                                                                            Jody

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David,     I would have to agree with Keith — Wooly Buggers seem to be my all around best producer.  I live between the Missisippi and Rum rivers north of Minneapolis, MN and fish the rivers regularly through the summer and early fall months.  I would add that I’ve had good success in late spring (and again in early fall) with frog patterns fished along the shore during their breeding migration.  Kind of like a midwestern version of splatting hoppers…. Zach

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Dave, I’m on the SW side of the Chicago burbs and fish the Kanakakee a lot. Clousers wna Woolies work well as does a SMALL crayfish pattern.  The Kank is not as flat bottomed as the Fox.  Haven’t fished the Fox much so I can’t really say – when I did I used Clousers and did well.  I, too, have been tying like crazy.  One pattern I use a lot also is a variant of the Thunder Creek series – I tie in an olive saddle hackle or two matuka style before adding the deer tail.  Gives a little more action and works well. Kevin

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Two quick comments: don’t stop tying Muddlers, best smallie fly I’ve ever used; when the weather turns colder, don’t be afraid to use big nymphs around ledges, rocks, weed edges etc. Paul Marriner

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently moved to a place where I’ve got some decent smallmouth fishing very close by.  Hooked a few before the cold set in, but I don’t feel like I have a sense of how to fish for them.  This river–the Fox, in northern Illinois–is fairly slow and shallow with a hard bottom.  The couple of times I was on it early in the fall I was fishing Clouser Minnows, cast across stream into the edge of a riffle, for instance, drifted and then swung, with a little action. Around bridge pilings, etc.  Worked okay, but you never know… I’ve been tying like crazy–too damn cold around here to do anything else–including a variety of muddlers that I plan on trying.  I’m hoping to hear some more from you smallmouth fanatics out there about fav patterns and especially techniques. How about it, you basstards? Cheers, David (freezing my butt section off in the midwest)

David, I fish for smallmouth on the Shenandoah and Potomac Rivers. Smallmouth are often found feeding right alongside trout in this area. They are primarily structure fish, and will hang near undercut banks, deeper pools, near rocks and logs, but move around during the course of the season. Here in Virginia in the spring they’re caught with Wooley Buggers, Clousers, and other streamer patters. They are in the heads of most of the pools with back currents, and they take the fly with an "electric" tug. As the water warms, they tend to cruise to the shallows in search of minnows and other food, then back to the faster water for security. The surface action takes off here in June, and lasts through August and early September. They love poppers, hoppers, damsel flies, terrestrials, and streamers through the summer months, although as the water level here drops and gets clear, they become VERY wary and you may need to lengthen the leader and approach them with stealth. In the fall they tend to get particular, and may go for steamers one day, and the next take nothing but poppers. They often move into tails of pools, hug the banks and hide under rocks and stumps. My favorite pattern for the fall is not a bass fly at all, but the Adams Irrisistable! It’s a killer here, and they seem to love it when they’ve seen one popper too many. They love dries. Once you’ve been bitten by the Smallie bug, it’s too late. They jump like hell and fight like mules. And they don’t stop fighting when you get them out of the water to try and set them free. Because of this I think they’re one of the toughest fish to handle and de-hook. I can’t wait for this cold weather to get out of here. I want to go fishing!!! Keith in Waterford, VA

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently moved to a place where I’ve got some decent smallmouth fishing very close by.  Hooked a few before the cold set in, but I don’t feel like I have a sense of how to fish for them.  This river–the Fox, in northern Illinois–is fairly slow and shallow with a hard bottom.  The couple of times I was on it early in the fall I was fishing Clouser Minnows, cast across stream into the edge of a riffle, for instance, drifted and then swung, with a little action. Around bridge pilings, etc.  Worked okay, but you never know… I’ve been tying like crazy–too damn cold around here to do anything else–including a variety of muddlers that I plan on trying.  I’m hoping to hear some more from you smallmouth fanatics out there about fav patterns and especially techniques.   How about it, you basstards? Cheers, David (freezing my butt section off in the midwest)

Try an off white wooly bugger tied on a size 2 long shank hook. if the fish are shallow don’t use any weight.  If they are deep tie in a little silver thread.  Adding a little green to the tail also works well. Rick.

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I recently moved to a place where I’ve got some decent smallmouth fishing very close by.  Hooked a few before the cold set in, but I don’t feel like I have a sense of how to fish for them.  This river–the Fox, in northern Illinois–is fairly slow and shallow with a hard bottom.  The couple of times I was on it early in the fall I was fishing Clouser Minnows, cast across stream into the edge of a riffle, for instance, drifted and then swung, with a little action. Around bridge pilings, etc.  Worked okay, but you never know… I’ve been tying like crazy–too damn cold around here to do anything else–including a variety of muddlers that I plan on trying.  I’m hoping to hear some more from you smallmouth fanatics out there about fav patterns and especially techniques.   How about it, you basstards? Cheers, David (freezing my butt section off in the midwest)

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Question:

Wow! George and Tim-Bone have done it time and time again. Lets give each other a chance. I believe they are good folks, but haven’t met either. I have never fished a nymph, but tied a few. I’ve fished worms, soft shelled crabs, minnows, etc. when I was little and didnt know about fly fishing. At the age of 12 I mowed lawns to earn $12 for my first fly rod, a bamboo, and still have it. One of my most enjoyable times was in Wisconsin Muskie fishing. Another was on the Mc Kinzie in Qregon with my wife. The Muskie fishing was with live shiners and the Oregon trip was dry flies. A point I would like to make about fishing is that it isn’t what you use that memories are made of it is the stream, lake, fish caught (kept or released) and the _moment_ of excitement at the time. What you used doesn’t matter, it is the memory that you will keep. So let’s give some slack to the folks who use INDICATORS, droppers or otherwise, and remember the memories. keep ‘em dry lukn4fish Bob Madden San Jose, Ca

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wow! George and Tim-Bone have done it time and time again. Lets give each other a chance. I believe they are good folks, but haven’t met either. snip A point I would like to make about fishing is that it isn’t what you use that memories are made of it is the stream, lake, fish caught (kept or released) and the _moment_ of excitement at the time. What you used doesn’t matter, it is the memory that you will keep. So let’s give some slack to the folks who use INDICATORS, droppers or otherwise, and remember the memories. keep ‘em dry lukn4fish Bob Madden San Jose, Ca

And don’t forget the enjoyment fishing with the right partner can add. Steve

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You had better be careful…your post sounds an awful lot like good, old, common sense…something that is often missing from some of the rhetoric I see in this group.  Ever think of applying for a moderators position? JIM WARD

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Good comments!  It’s really about how you internalize the experience, not so much the tools that you use. -Burton (p.s., I love the McKenzie) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wow! George and Tim-Bone have done it time and time again. Lets give each other a chance. I believe they are good folks, but haven’t met either. I have never fished a nymph, but tied a few. I’ve fished worms, soft shelled crabs, minnows, etc. when I was little and didnt know about fly fishing. At the age of 12 I mowed lawns to earn $12 for my first fly rod, a bamboo, and still have it. One of my most enjoyable times was in Wisconsin Muskie fishing. Another was on the Mc Kinzie in Qregon with my wife. The Muskie fishing was with live shiners and the Oregon trip was dry flies. A point I would like to make about fishing is that it isn’t what you use that memories are made of it is the stream, lake, fish caught (kept or released) and the _moment_ of excitement at the time. What you used doesn’t matter, it is the memory that you will keep. So let’s give some slack to the folks who use INDICATORS, droppers or otherwise, and remember the memories. keep ‘em dry lukn4fish Bob Madden San Jose, Ca

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Question:

I ve in northern MA. I would like to try fly fishing for shad. I would drive to Holyoke or Enfield Ct and fish the dams there, which, I understand, are both hot spots. But, does anyone have any thoughts or current info about the Merrimack or North Rivers or anywhere else? joe hardman

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Hey Joe, Where ya been hidin’?   Under a snow drift? <G I hear the shad have moved up the Merrimack and should be up to the Essex dam in downtown Lawrence any time now.  I talked to a guy at my TU meeting tonight who got a lot of shad last weekend at the Rocks Village Bridge in Haverhill.   There will probably be some schoolies mixed in with them.  I hope to get down there and try it within the week.   Tight Lines, Gerry Crow

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I ve in northern MA. I would like to try fly fishing for shad. I would drive to Holyoke or Enfield Ct and fish the dams there, which, I understand, are both hot spots. But, does anyone have any thoughts or current info about the Merrimack or North Rivers or anywhere else? joe hardman

Ran into a guy at the Seabrook estuary yesterday who told me he did real well on shad this week at Rock Village in Haverhill. Incoming tide, sinking line, small flies. have fun,                 jc

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Question:

I saw in another post that there is a fly fishing digest on he net.  Does anyone know how to subscribe to this or whaever it takes to find it. sounds real interesting.  please post any info on this fly fishing digest. thanks ken fritts

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I saw in another post that there is a fly fishing digest on he net.  Does anyone know how to subscribe to this or whaever it takes to find it. sounds real interesting.  please post any info on this fly fishing digest. thanks

Please let me know too – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -ken fritts

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