Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » Government issued id?

Government issued id?

Question:

What other forms of government issued id except for passport, driver’s license or state id card are valid for boarding a plane? If I have a badge from a government agency that has my name and picture is that considered "governmnet issued"? Bob

Response:

In the past couple years I’ve flown with people from State, Justice, Homeland Security, and HHS and they’ve all managed with just their photo badge. If yours is from a satellite office of the Department of Collectible Miniatures Assessment or something then you might want to go ahead and dust off the driver’s license. miguel — See the world from your web browser: http://travel.u.nu/

Response:

This was before the 11th, but a Delta person explained it to me once (because my license was not with me at the time, I know, check before leaving home) that anything issued by any government would be OK. Voter Reg, passport, fishing license, library card etc. At the time if you didn’t have a photo ID then a government issued something and another piece of ID worked. I actually ended up using my car insurance ID card (had the state’s name on it and my name on it and another ID and they said OK to fly. Running back to get it from the lot stunk, but I got on the plane. So, I would assume you would be ok with a badge and picture. As an aside, the photo ID or one government issued non photo and one other still appears to be in place at the airlines, this is from one site, so the library card and credit card would in theory still work, though I wouldn’t want to test it. The Airline may use these guidelines to issue the ticket and boarding pass, though I don’t believe the TSA has anything other then a Photo ID in their policies. —-start All passengers over the age of 18 are required to provide positive identification for travel at check-in. A photo ID issued by a local, state or federal government agency, or two forms of non-photo ID (at least one issued by a local, state, or federal government agency, such as a Social Security card) are acceptable forms of identification to present at check-in. If traveling outside the country, please remember to keep your passport and/or travel documents on you or in your carry-on bag at all times. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What other forms of government issued id except for passport, driver’s license or state id card are valid for boarding a plane? If I have a badge from a government agency that has my name and picture is that considered "governmnet issued"? Bob

Response:

Just last week, a friend of mine got to the airport and discovered that he’d grabbed his wife’s passport instead of his own on his way out the door that morning. This friend doesn’t drive, so no license. He went through everything in his wallet. No picture cards or badges of any sort. The check-in agent was apparently satisfied that he was who he said he was, and she told him that security would give him the full inspection. So he got the total body wanding and had all his carry-ons searched. It was determined that he posed no threat to anyone and he got on the plane. His wife overnighted the right passport to his hotel. So the photo ID thing is mostly charade. Considering that any 16-year-old knows where to get a fake ID, it seems rather pointless.

Response:

For an authoritative answer, check with the airline. If you’re referring to a flight that originates in the United States, you can also probably find this information on the web at http://www.tsa.gov or perhaps at http://travel.state.gov

Response:

Short answer – yes.

Response:

In which country? Cheers, Jason.

Response:

Last year, my husband lost his driver’s license while we were down in Arizona. He didn’t realize it until he was checking in at the airport. The only thing with his picture on it was his Jury license from the International Bobsled and Skeleton Federation. He showed it and he was let through Security. Kitty Panza

Response:

Author: admin on
Category: Fly Fishing
Tags: Fly Fishing

Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing Flies » Distance Casting/Double Hauling Physics

Distance Casting/Double Hauling Physics

Question:

Are there any websites that show step-by-step PICTURES or better yet mpeg movie showing the double haul in action???

http://www.mysportsguru.com/CDA/Article/0,1093,1-1007-1672-2007,00.html is one. — Charlie…

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 5) There are three forward motions that must be in unison for the double haul. a) The rod hand that moves forward, toward the front of the ear. 1) This is the move that removes line slack behind the caster. b) The turn over of the wrist. c) The haul that occurs DURING the instant the wrist starts to turn over DURING the simultaneous forward thrust of the fist. In other words, the hand comes forward and as you pass your ear, the thumb starts to turn over, driving the bend of the rod farther into the butt at the same instant the haul is applied which drives all the power farther into the butt which collects more power, bending the rod even more. Here is where a micro-second is required to hold onto the fly line and not releasing it just then. The haul hand comes down and time is allowed in the fly rod to increase the line speed. As soon as the tip of the fly rod is about forward, the haul hand releases the fly line . . . and you let her fly! HINT: Keep the tip higher than you normally do for maximum distance. There is more, but this is as simple as I can make it right now. One demo is worth a thousand words. But! Let us all remember that fly lines are really weak rubber bands and stretching a fly line out first is paramount so one can make it as tight as possible before you can really increase fly line speed properly. Hope some of this helps, and yes, there is a difference between the single haul and the double haul.

Are there any websites that show step-by-step PICTURES or better yet mpeg movie showing the double haul in action??? Thanks in advance, dave

Response:

I believe you misspelled pathology. Wolfgang

As with your foot in mouth posts? A Pathobiology fact noted by many Roffians regarding your off subject howlings? hummmm? Casting is a pathology quirk, eh? guilty. — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html fine bamboo flyrods & blanks

Response:

______ You’re a hard working man Bill and deserve the best in all things. Plan on meeting me in Montana this year if you can find a ten day slot. My last stint at the Mayo Clinic and after hours in the operating room, is a wonderful success. I’m indeed a fortunate man. Again, Happy New Year Bill. George – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi George and the rest of you wonderful ROFFers out there, I am here in Nor Cal in my old boxer shorts with a cup of coffee. I have to go into the shop this morning after a couple of days off. Had a nice Christmas with the family. I hope you are all feeling strong and healthy. I hope 2001 is a great year for you all. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com I have a break here today, in between Morning Presents and a beautiful turkey with all the fixings soon to be presented to many friends and relatives. It is clear here today, crisp and bright as geese fly up and down the river looking for fresh graze. From the Book of Gink: AXIOMS 1) There is only one thing that determines how far anyone can cast. It is called, "Line Speed." The greater the line speed the farther one can cast. 2) Fly lines, like rubber bands, stretch. As long as this slack remains (WITHIN Fly lines) while fly casting, energy is required to remove it. That which is required to do so do NOT increase the line speed until the stretch is removed in all fly lines. The tighter the line, the greater the line speed can be applied into a tightly taunt line. 3) The greatest power that can be applied to a fly line is in the potential energy stored in the butt section of all fly rods. Getting to that power is the question. How do we do that? 4) Fly rods are also fulcrums. If one half a fly rod, from the tip to the mid section is bent during the forward cast, any applied power beyond these forward power curves is not unlike a long pole under a big rock with the fulcrum moved CLOSER to the weight. In this case, the butt section! 5) There are three forward motions that must be in unison for the double haul. a) The rod hand that moves forward, toward the front of the ear. 1) This is the move that removes line slack behind the caster. b) The turn over of the wrist. c) The haul that occurs DURING the instant the wrist starts to turn over DURING the simultaneous forward thrust of the fist. In other words, the hand comes forward and as you pass your ear, the thumb starts to turn over, driving the bend of the rod farther into the butt at the same instant the haul is applied which drives all the power farther into the butt which collects more power, bending the rod even more. Here is where a micro-second is required to hold onto the fly line and not releasing it just then. The haul hand comes down and time is allowed in the fly rod to increase the line speed. As soon as the tip of the fly rod is about forward, the haul hand releases the fly line . . . and you let her fly! HINT: Keep the tip higher than you normally do for maximum distance. There is more, but this is as simple as I can make it right now. One demo is worth a thousand words. But! Let us all remember that fly lines are really weak rubber bands and stretching a fly line out first is paramount so one can make it as tight as possible before you can really increase fly line speed properly. Hope some of this helps, and yes, there is a difference between the single haul and the double haul. Merry Christmas. — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html fine bamboo flyrods & blanks

– Mr.G. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html fine bamboo flyrods & blanks

Response:

Steve is a marvelous teacher and instructor. I can’t count the number of times he would watch me cast at a show and point out some new quirk I had picked up.

Big deal, we’ve been pointing out your quirks – old and new – for years. Not much of a challenge, either…

Response:

I believe you misspelled pathology. Wolfgang always glad to be of service

Response:

Tony, Don’t forget that loop size also determines how far the cast will go. Ernie "Tony Bishop" wrote <snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is only one thing that determines how far anyone can cast, it is called **line acceleration** the rate of change in line speed. Tony Bishop

Response:

Hello, I chanced upon a reference to a scientific paper which might be of interest to those technically inclined: John Robson The Physics of Flycasting American Journal of Physics, 1990 I made a note of it but have not looked for it in a library and read it (yet) so I don’t know if it is relevant to your discussion. Regards, Yuji Sakuma – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – George, I pretty much agree with all you said, except the very first point, I rthink it should read: There is only one thing that determines how far anyone can cast, it is called **line acceleration** the rate of change in line speed. Loading the rod, using haul(s), wrist snaps, etc. evrything you and others have listed, all should contribute to increasing line acceleration during the casting stroke. If the line is not accelerating at the end of the casting stroke and when the rod unloads, the line will immediately begin to fall. I find that once a client understands feeling the weight on the backcast, and then adds the little tweaks on the way to the end of the casting stroke, the quicker they learn to maiximise distance and accuracy. Just by the by, I rarely use a double haul, only occasionally using a single haul, and that is when using 9 weights in the big rivers with big flies or heavy nymphs, or in the saltwater. And leaving my modesty behind I can toss out most of a flyline when I have to, without hauling. I go along with Lefty Kreh who said something along the lines of, hauling and such too often teaches someone to cast their mistakes further. — Tony Bishop New Zealand http://bishfish.co.nz

Response:

There’s other things than line speed that effect distance, such as aerodynamics. e.g. It’s easy to cast a number 20 GRHE than a bundel of flank feathers. You also have differences in changes in Center of Gravity (tight loop vs. open loop) to name a few. Also the forward and backward motion of the shoulder plays a big part. Lou – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a break here today, in between Morning Presents and a beautiful turkey with all the fixings soon to be presented to many friends and relatives. It is clear here today, crisp and bright as geese fly up and down the river looking for fresh graze. From the Book of Gink: AXIOMS 1) There is only one thing that determines how far anyone can cast. It is called, "Line Speed." The greater the line speed the farther one can cast. 2) Fly lines, like rubber bands, stretch. As long as this slack remains (WITHIN Fly lines) while fly casting, energy is required to remove it. That which is required to do so do NOT increase the line speed until the stretch is removed in all fly lines. The tighter the line, the greater the line speed can be applied into a tightly taunt line. 3) The greatest power that can be applied to a fly line is in the potential energy stored in the butt section of all fly rods. Getting to that power is the question. How do we do that? 4) Fly rods are also fulcrums. If one half a fly rod, from the tip to the mid section is bent during the forward cast, any applied power beyond these forward power curves is not unlike a long pole under a big rock with the fulcrum moved CLOSER to the weight. In this case, the butt section! 5) There are three forward motions that must be in unison for the double haul. a) The rod hand that moves forward, toward the front of the ear. 1) This is the move that removes line slack behind the caster. b) The turn over of the wrist. c) The haul that occurs DURING the instant the wrist starts to turn over DURING the simultaneous forward thrust of the fist. In other words, the hand comes forward and as you pass your ear, the thumb starts to turn over, driving the bend of the rod farther into the butt at the same instant the haul is applied which drives all the power farther into the butt which collects more power, bending the rod even more. Here is where a micro-second is required to hold onto the fly line and not releasing it just then. The haul hand comes down and time is allowed in the fly rod to increase the line speed. As soon as the tip of the fly rod is about forward, the haul hand releases the fly line . . . and you let her fly! HINT: Keep the tip higher than you normally do for maximum distance. There is more, but this is as simple as I can make it right now. One demo is worth a thousand words. But! Let us all remember that fly lines are really weak rubber bands and stretching a fly line out first is paramount so one can make it as tight as possible before you can really increase fly line speed properly. Hope some of this helps, and yes, there is a difference between the single haul and the double haul. Merry Christmas. — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html fine bamboo flyrods & blanks

Response:

Hi George and the rest of you wonderful ROFFers out there, I am here in Nor Cal in my old boxer shorts with a cup of coffee. I have to go into the shop this morning after a couple of days off. Had a nice Christmas with the family. I hope you are all feeling strong and healthy. I hope 2001 is a great year for you all. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a break here today, in between Morning Presents and a beautiful turkey with all the fixings soon to be presented to many friends and relatives. It is clear here today, crisp and bright as geese fly up and down the river looking for fresh graze. From the Book of Gink: AXIOMS 1) There is only one thing that determines how far anyone can cast. It is called, "Line Speed." The greater the line speed the farther one can cast. 2) Fly lines, like rubber bands, stretch. As long as this slack remains (WITHIN Fly lines) while fly casting, energy is required to remove it. That which is required to do so do NOT increase the line speed until the stretch is removed in all fly lines. The tighter the line, the greater the line speed can be applied into a tightly taunt line. 3) The greatest power that can be applied to a fly line is in the potential energy stored in the butt section of all fly rods. Getting to that power is the question. How do we do that? 4) Fly rods are also fulcrums. If one half a fly rod, from the tip to the mid section is bent during the forward cast, any applied power beyond these forward power curves is not unlike a long pole under a big rock with the fulcrum moved CLOSER to the weight. In this case, the butt section! 5) There are three forward motions that must be in unison for the double haul. a) The rod hand that moves forward, toward the front of the ear. 1) This is the move that removes line slack behind the caster. b) The turn over of the wrist. c) The haul that occurs DURING the instant the wrist starts to turn over DURING the simultaneous forward thrust of the fist. In other words, the hand comes forward and as you pass your ear, the thumb starts to turn over, driving the bend of the rod farther into the butt at the same instant the haul is applied which drives all the power farther into the butt which collects more power, bending the rod even more. Here is where a micro-second is required to hold onto the fly line and not releasing it just then. The haul hand comes down and time is allowed in the fly rod to increase the line speed. As soon as the tip of the fly rod is about forward, the haul hand releases the fly line . . . and you let her fly! HINT: Keep the tip higher than you normally do for maximum distance. There is more, but this is as simple as I can make it right now. One demo is worth a thousand words. But! Let us all remember that fly lines are really weak rubber bands and stretching a fly line out first is paramount so one can make it as tight as possible before you can really increase fly line speed properly. Hope some of this helps, and yes, there is a difference between the single haul and the double haul. Merry Christmas. — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html fine bamboo flyrods & blanks

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – George, I pretty much agree with all you said, except the very first point, I rthink it should read: There is only one thing that determines how far anyone can cast, it is called **line acceleration** the rate of change in line speed. Loading the rod, using haul(s), wrist snaps, etc. evrything you and others have listed, all should contribute to increasing line acceleration during the casting stroke. If the line is not accelerating at the end of the casting stroke and when the rod unloads, the line will immediately begin to fall. I find that once a client understands feeling the weight on the backcast, and then adds the little tweaks on the way to the end of the casting stroke, the quicker they learn to maiximise distance and accuracy. Just by the by, I rarely use a double haul, only occasionally using a single haul, and that is when using 9 weights in the big rivers with big flies or heavy nymphs, or in the saltwater. And leaving my modesty behind I can toss out most of a flyline when I have to, without hauling. I go along with Lefty Kreh who said something along the lines of, hauling and such too often teaches someone to cast their mistakes further. — Tony Bishop New Zealand http://bishfish.co.nz

that has more casting mistakes than any of them and frankly, shouldn’t be teaching casting until he gets his errors corrected by a master. However; Lefty is very popular but it is no excuse to promote incorrect casting techniques. I like Lefty, but there is a limit to condoning the public’s jaundiced eye. Much better teachers are probably everyone else that does so in the industry but the best of the lot, in my opinion is D.Swisher. Another is E. Schwiebert if and when he is available, but the best in the world is Steve Rajif. This is the man Kreh all fly casting teachers should see on occasion. Steve is a marvelous teacher and instructor. I can’t count the number of times he would watch me cast at a show and point out some new quirk I had picked up. By the way, there is going to be a FLY FISHING SHOW IN DENVER this coming January, on the 6th & 7th. I plan to be there with a booth. — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html fine bamboo flyrods & blanks

Response:

George, I pretty much agree with all you said, except the very first point, I rthink it should read: There is only one thing that determines how far anyone can cast, it is called **line acceleration** the rate of change in line speed. Loading the rod, using haul(s), wrist snaps, etc. evrything you and others have listed, all should contribute to increasing line acceleration during the casting stroke. If the line is not accelerating at the end of the casting stroke and when the rod unloads, the line will immediately begin to fall. I find that once a client understands feeling the weight on the backcast, and then adds the little tweaks on the way to the end of the casting stroke, the quicker they learn to maiximise distance and accuracy. Just by the by, I rarely use a double haul, only occasionally using a single haul, and that is when using 9 weights in the big rivers with big flies or heavy nymphs, or in the saltwater. And leaving my modesty behind I can toss out most of a flyline when I have to, without hauling. I go along with Lefty Kreh who said something along the lines of, hauling and such too often teaches someone to cast their mistakes further. — Tony Bishop New Zealand http://bishfish.co.nz

Response:

I have a break here today, in between Morning Presents and a beautiful turkey with all the fixings soon to be presented to many friends and relatives. It is clear here today, crisp and bright as geese fly up and down the river looking for fresh graze. From the Book of Gink: AXIOMS 1) There is only one thing that determines how far anyone can cast. It is called, "Line Speed." The greater the line speed the farther one can cast. 2) Fly lines, like rubber bands, stretch. As long as this slack remains (WITHIN Fly lines) while fly casting, energy is required to remove it. That which is required to do so do NOT increase the line speed until the stretch is removed in all fly lines. The tighter the line, the greater the line speed can be applied into a tightly taunt line. 3) The greatest power that can be applied to a fly line is in the potential energy stored in the butt section of all fly rods. Getting to that power is the question. How do we do that? 4) Fly rods are also fulcrums. If one half a fly rod, from the tip to the mid section is bent during the forward cast, any applied power beyond these forward power curves is not unlike a long pole under a big rock with the fulcrum moved CLOSER to the weight. In this case, the butt section! 5) There are three forward motions that must be in unison for the double haul. a) The rod hand that moves forward, toward the front of the ear. 1) This is the move that removes line slack behind the caster. b) The turn over of the wrist. c) The haul that occurs DURING the instant the wrist starts to turn over DURING the simultaneous forward thrust of the fist. In other words, the hand comes forward and as you pass your ear, the thumb starts to turn over, driving the bend of the rod farther into the butt at the same instant the haul is applied which drives all the power farther into the butt which collects more power, bending the rod even more. Here is where a micro-second is required to hold onto the fly line and not releasing it just then. The haul hand comes down and time is allowed in the fly rod to increase the line speed. As soon as the tip of the fly rod is about forward, the haul hand releases the fly line . . . and you let her fly! HINT: Keep the tip higher than you normally do for maximum distance. There is more, but this is as simple as I can make it right now. One demo is worth a thousand words. But! Let us all remember that fly lines are really weak rubber bands and stretching a fly line out first is paramount so one can make it as tight as possible before you can really increase fly line speed properly. Hope some of this helps, and yes, there is a difference between the single haul and the double haul. Merry Christmas. — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html fine bamboo flyrods & blanks

Response:

Author: admin on
Category: Fly Fishing Flies
Tags: Fly Fishing Flies

Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fish » Turn the Sage

Turn the Sage

Question:

Turn the Sage (with apologies to Bob Seager *and* Metallica): Here I am, On the road again, There I am, Totin’ the Sage, Here I go, Fishing afar again, There I go, Off to Maine. –Steve

Response:

See ya there buddy….leaving tomorrow night…will be arriving with DT and SF…I know you check the web on the road ( I think )… ND#1 ( good song )

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Turn the Sage (with apologies to Bob Seager *and* Metallica): Here I am, On the road again, There I am, Totin’ the Sage, Here I go, Fishing afar again, There I go, Off to Maine. –Steve

Response:

Sage doesn’t make a bamboo… I was thinking more along the lines… On the road again I just can’t wait to get on the road again. The life I love is fly fish’n with my friends, And I can’t wait to get on the road again T-14 hours and counting. Paul

Response:

There I go, Off to Maine. –Steve

me, too, zimbo…that is, if i can even *find* raleigh, nc, at this time of the morning. i plan to plant the regimental flag of the 55th north carolina, army of northern virginia, further north than it has ever been. wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Ditto…….T 1 1/2 hours ND#1

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sage doesn’t make a bamboo… I was thinking more along the lines… On the road again I just can’t wait to get on the road again. The life I love is fly fish’n with my friends, And I can’t wait to get on the road again T-14 hours and counting. Paul Turn the Sage (with apologies to Bob Seager *and* Metallica): Here I am, On the road again, There I am, Totin’ the Sage, Here I go, Fishing afar again, There I go, Off to Maine. –Steve

Response:

… i plan to plant the regimental flag of the 55th north carolina, army of northern virginia, further north than it has ever been.

How quaint. Reminds me of another regimental flag of the treasonous states captured by a Minnesota regiment of the Army of the Potomac and recently found in the vaults of the Minnesota Historical Society. Some bunch of history minded Johnnie Rebs from Ole Virginny wanted Minnesota to return their flag. Gov. Jesse Ventura, bless his pointy little head, told ‘em to forget about it, "we took it fair and square" was his official response. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Some bunch of history minded Johnnie Rebs from Ole Virginny wanted Minnesota to return their flag. Gov. Jesse Ventura, bless his pointy little head, told ‘em to forget about it, "we took it fair and square" was his official response.

That’s why I really like Jesse. No mealy-mouthed pussy footing around the issues. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

the issues.

I bet he didn’t even have to take a poll before that response either. Damn I miss Barry Goldwater. Big Dale

Response:

. Damn I miss Barry Goldwater.

No shit. He was a true conservative, the kind that made me a R in my younger days. He had crazy ideas like the government staying out of people’s bedrooms, fiscal responsibility, stuff like that. And he was a pretty comitted environmentalist. Oh, no, wait. That’s not the Republican platform. Goldwater must’ve been just another damn liberal! — "Number 3: Put education first." – from Geo. W.’s campaign website, list of his top ten concerns

Response:

. Damn I miss Barry Goldwater. No shit. He was a true conservative, the kind that made me a R in my younger days. He had crazy ideas like the government staying out of people’s bedrooms, fiscal responsibility, stuff like that. And he was a pretty comitted environmentalist. Oh, no, wait. That’s not the Republican platform. Goldwater must’ve been just another damn liberal!

Don’t forget, towards the end the conservatives talked about kicking him out for his stance on abortion. — Charlie…

Response:

bedrooms, fiscal responsibility, stuff like that. And he was a pretty comitted environmentalist. Oh, no, wait. That’s not the Republican platform. Goldwater must’ve been just another damn liberal!

I prefer to think that he was a liberterian before the tern was invented. He made points with me when he said that he thought Buchanen was a good democrat. Big Dale

Response:

Yeah, though a libertarian won’t do anything to protect the environment (actually, won’t do anything to stop any private citizen from doing anything bad to any other private citizen short of the classic nine common-law felonies). P.S. Free bicentennial brownie button to anyone who can name those nine felonies. Here’s a hint (prepare for nostalgia, you law docs): mr and mrs lamb. Even more extra credit for anyone who remembers the two apple-stealing cases. — "If you want to live like a Republican, vote Democratic" — Harry S. Truman

Response:

Author: admin on
Category: Fly Fish
Tags: Fly Fish

Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » River Fly Fishing » NEED MAILING ADDRESSES FOR ALL CLAVE ATTENDEES

NEED MAILING ADDRESSES FOR ALL CLAVE ATTENDEES

Question:

without regard to where you are staying, in or out of cabins, i need your mailing addresses, asap. i know some of you have sent same earlier, but i am lazy, and need them organized in a single source. in return you will receive an incredibly informative package concerning clave geography and itinerary, prepared at a nominal charge by the vast and efficient staff of little wayno’s outfitters (we never close). thanks for the firm wayno

Response:

http://www.rodbuilder.com ______ Mr. George Gehrke / President Gehrke’s Fly Fishing Products Snake River – Hell’s Canyon Asotin, WA 99402 509-243-4100 or 5500 FAX-243-4644 Your place or mine?

Response:

Wayno wrote :i need your mailing addresses, asap. Big Dale Dale Wilkinson 6533 Caddo Court Plano, Texas 75023-2902

Response:

Author: admin on
Category: River Fly Fishing
Tags: River Fly Fishing

Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » River Fly Fishing » Canoe advice for beginner?

Canoe advice for beginner?

Question:

I recommend a 16 ft Mad River Explorer.

Me too. I don’t know how far around the block this conversation has gone, but for my way over 2-cents worth of experience goes, there is NO better all around boat (considering performance, versatility, cost, looks, maintenance, etc) than the 16 foot MR Explorer. Period. Anyone buying a canoe should plan an spending a little more for this boat as a starter, then expect to never need to buy another all-around canoe again. See my sig file. — riverman I think, therefore I thwim. Carpe ropum. "There is NO better all around boat (considering performance, versatility, cost, looks, maintenance, etc) than the 16 foot MR Explorer. Period."

Response:

I love Mad River boats BUT one might get a little argument about the Explorer being the best all rounder from Swift Kipawa fans. who would suggest that the Kipawa is more stable more speedy (and faster too) more capacious more maneuverable more white water capable more seaworthy and more perttier. — Lyle

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recommend a 16 ft Mad River Explorer. Me too. I don’t know how far around the block this conversation has gone, but for my way over 2-cents worth of experience goes, there is NO better all around boat (considering performance, versatility, cost, looks, maintenance, etc) than the 16 foot MR Explorer. Period. Anyone buying a canoe should plan an spending a little more for this boat as a starter, then expect to never need to buy another all-around canoe again. See my sig file. — riverman I think, therefore I thwim. Carpe ropum. "There is NO better all around boat (considering performance, versatility, cost, looks, maintenance, etc) than the 16 foot MR Explorer. Period."

Response:

I recommend a 16 ft Mad River Explorer. Me too. I don’t know how far around the block this conversation has gone, but for my way over 2-cents worth of experience goes, there is NO better all around boat (considering performance, versatility, cost, looks, maintenance, etc) than the 16 foot MR Explorer. Period. Anyone buying a canoe should plan an spending a little more for this boat as a starter, then expect to never need to buy another all-around canoe again. See my sig file.

If you want one boat that will do everything, I agree (though I haven’t tried the Swift). If you want a boat for primarily or exclusively flatwater, then there are better choices out there in composite/fiberglass/kevlar — Andrew

Response:

I recommend a 16 ft Mad River Explorer.

It’s been a while since I purchased my first boat, and I don’t know much about what’s out there, but my general comment would be buy the best boat you can afford. Don’t spare the horses. Talk to people in a local canoe and kayak club, and get their recommendations on brands. Tell them what you want to do with the boat–that’s the important part.

Response:

I recommend a 16 ft Mad River Explorer. It’s been a while since I purchased my first boat, and I don’t know much about what’s out there, but my general comment would be buy the best boat you can afford. Don’t spare the horses. Talk to people in a local canoe and kayak club, and get their recommendations on brands. Tell them what you want to do with the boat–that’s the important part.

I’ve been a kayaker for a while now, but just recently my new girlfriend wanted a canoe for us. Have been looking for a used Royalite, or Royalex canoe for a couple months — just today we found it! I consulted with other canoe-types in the club, and this Mohawk Nova 16 (or other similar brands/models) seemed to do it all. It is Royalex. This is the exact one we got today, used for $500 with four float bags. Boats like this are sort of "Do It All" dealies. Each time some new person asks "Which Canoe should i get?" i always say ‘Buy a used, decent brand’ and this is the first time i’ve had to try it out. We like this boat!

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I recommend a 16 ft Mad River Explorer. I own both an Old Town Discovery and the Explorer, and find the Old Town is too heavy to carry any distance (not to mention lift). The Explorer is lighter, handles better, and yes, it’s easier on the eyes. The Discovery might plow through rocks better, but takes on water in the slightest chops. I used to own a Coleman, I’m glad it died an ugly rocky death long ago. http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Rapids/5189/index.htm Reach out and touch a rock – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello! I realize that this has probably been beaten to death until some are sick of it, but being new to this group, thought I’d seek some advice anyway. Am going to buy a canoe this spring, & am in a quandry about the wisest choice, while still keeping to a reasonable price. Having seen very few used canoes for sale in my area, so looks like it might be a new canoe. I plan to use the canoe for hitting some lakes in my region with my sons….do some fly fishing, canoe camp occasionally, that type of thing. If the canoe I end up getting is worthy, the canoe might see some river use (probably nothing worse than Class II, possibly a little Class III, but maybe not), & might also make it to such places as Bowron Lakes & Myrtle Lake in B.C. for more extended canoe camping & paddling (with more portages, a person should start looking at weight….now the cost of the lighter canoes jumps up & introduces itself). I’ve looked at Old Town, Wenonah, Mad River, etc. A person could spend $1000 – $1400 for one of their lighter canoes, or could pay ~$700 for an Old Town Discovery that would suit the bill, but is somewhat heavier. Might also look at a Marathon, Grumman, Osagian, or Alumaweld aluminum canoe as well in that price range. Money being an object here, the price of a Coleman canoe (go ahead, let me have it!) locally is $269 – $319 looks pretty attractive. I know the Coleman would be a rugged, durable canoe. Trying to decide if it’s wiser to get a lighter, more quality designed canoe that would be more versatile in the long term, even if I have to charge !/2 of it or more, or pay cash for something like a Coleman since I’m fairly new to the sport, & would welcome advice from those who have already made such decisions. Would also welcome info about used canoes for sale where freight to eastern Washington wouldn’t be a deterrant. Thanks!

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The coleman is a good boat for short paddles around a quiet lake once in a while

With a dang, clanging Coleman, the lake’s not going to stay quiet for long. It’s practically a percussion instrument Eddy "Colemans are for keeping beer cool" Rapid.

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It sounds like you’ve been doing your research. I agree with all your points. About three years ago, I faced the same question. Like you, I wanted the best for the least. I purchased a OT Disco158. I like it fine but if I had the opportunity to make that decision again, I would save a little more money and by the lighter boat with a more efficient hull. I use it mostly for day paddling with my wife or fishing with my children. I’ve run a class III in it but don’t suggest it. I’ve paddled it 32 miles through the Okeefenokee swamp and camped out of it. I am not interested in getting rid of it but, would not buy another. I understand the Disco169 has a more efficient hull but, it weighs in at a hefty 85lbs. You will find that weight makes more of a difference than you think. I can car-top my 80lb canoe by myself but "it ain’t pretty." The yolk makes it easier to carry but it still weighs 80lbs. A lighter canoe will respond better to corrections/steering and may even be a little faster. If you can stand to wait, I’d recommend it. You’ll just end up wanting to buy different one in a few years. I would have by now but I am discovering both sea and whitewater kayaks! Oh yeah, one other thing. If you really think you’re going to enjoy the sport, don’t give the Coleman too much thought. You really DO get what you pay for in a canoe. Eric da Grate – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello! I realize that this has probably been beaten to death until some are sick of it, but being new to this group, thought I’d seek some advice anyway. Am going to buy a canoe this spring, & am in a quandry about the wisest choice, while still keeping to a reasonable price. Having seen very few used canoes for sale in my area, so looks like it might be a new canoe. I plan to use the canoe for hitting some lakes in my region with my sons….do some fly fishing, canoe camp occasionally, that type of thing. If the canoe I end up getting is worthy, the canoe might see some river use (probably nothing worse than Class II, possibly a little Class III, but maybe not), & might also make it to such places as Bowron Lakes & Myrtle Lake in B.C. for more extended canoe camping & paddling (with more portages, a person should start looking at weight….now the cost of the lighter canoes jumps up & introduces itself). I’ve looked at Old Town, Wenonah, Mad River, etc. A person could spend $1000 – $1400 for one of their lighter canoes, or could pay ~$700 for an Old Town Discovery that would suit the bill, but is somewhat heavier. Might also look at a Marathon, Grumman, Osagian, or Alumaweld aluminum canoe as well in that price range. Money being an object here, the price of a Coleman canoe (go ahead, let me have it!) locally is $269 – $319 looks pretty attractive. I know the Coleman would be a rugged, durable canoe. Trying to decide if it’s wiser to get a lighter, more quality designed canoe that would be more versatile in the long term, even if I have to charge !/2 of it or more, or pay cash for something like a Coleman since I’m fairly new to the sport, & would welcome advice from those who have already made such decisions. Would also welcome info about used canoes for sale where freight to eastern Washington wouldn’t be a deterrant. Thanks!

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Hello! I realize that this has probably been beaten to death…

~* s n i p *~ If you don’t mind the $65 or so shipping charge, try calling one of the companies someone mentioned else mentioned earlier: Rutabaga in Madison, Wisconsin sells LOTS of boats. They always have new Old Town blems on hand at a greatly reduced rate. Not a bad deal for a first boat. They will be getting lots of used boats in another month after their annual "Canoecopia" show; many people will be trading in their boats for something new. Give them a call at 800-472-3353 (800-I-PADDLE) or check out their website: www.paddlers.com Tell Darren I sent ya. Good luck. — To reply by email, remove mapson. from the edress Check out the links page at this site: www.paddlers.com

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Thank you all for the replies & advice. I realize that researching a purchase like this, then even trying out different boats would be the best of all worlds, but hearing from folks that have been there is also a definite help. Thanks again!

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If the Coleman is the only way you are going to get on the water, do it! If you want a boat, get one of the others. Go demo some boats. The newsgroups cannot tell you how you will feel in a boat. you need to try them. Borrow a Coleman and then you can feel the pain in your lower back as you haul it to the water. Then you will be informed. Try a lake boat with a keel in a moving river and learn why a keel is not too swell in moving water. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello! I realize that this has probably been beaten to death until some are sick of it, but being new to this group, thought I’d seek some advice anyway. Am going to buy a canoe this spring, & am in a quandry about the wisest choice, while still keeping to a reasonable price. Having seen very few used canoes for sale in my area, so looks like it might be a new canoe. I plan to use the canoe for hitting some lakes in my region with my sons….do some fly fishing, canoe camp occasionally, that type of thing. If the canoe I end up getting is worthy, the canoe might see some river use (probably nothing worse than Class II, possibly a little Class III, but maybe not), & might also make it to such places as Bowron Lakes & Myrtle Lake in B.C. for more extended canoe camping & paddling (with more portages, a person should start looking at weight….now the cost of the lighter canoes jumps up & introduces itself). I’ve looked at Old Town, Wenonah, Mad River, etc. A person could spend $1000 – $1400 for one of their lighter canoes, or could pay ~$700 for an Old Town Discovery that would suit the bill, but is somewhat heavier. Might also look at a Marathon, Grumman, Osagian, or Alumaweld aluminum canoe as well in that price range. Money being an object here, the price of a Coleman canoe (go ahead, let me have it!) locally is $269 – $319 looks pretty attractive. I know the Coleman would be a rugged, durable canoe. Trying to decide if it’s wiser to get a lighter, more quality designed canoe that would be more versatile in the long term, even if I have to charge !/2 of it or more, or pay cash for something like a Coleman since I’m fairly new to the sport, & would welcome advice from those who have already made such decisions. Would also welcome info about used canoes for sale where freight to eastern Washington wouldn’t be a deterrant. Thanks!

patrickatcyberhighwaydotnet

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Hello!

Well hello to you! I know the Coleman would be a rugged, durable canoe.

Actually, they aren’t. Not compared to Old Town, Mad RIver, Mohawk, etc. I wouldn’t want to hit too many rocks with a coleman. Aluminum canoes are extremely durable, but, and this is a BIG BUTT, it’s hard to keep the suckers quiet. Each and every time you place your paddle in the boat, you and every fish within 300 feet will hear the ‘thud’. I hear the Boy Scouts using them all the time at Upper Priest lake in Idaho…very noisy. already made such decisions. Would also welcome info about used canoes for sale where freight to eastern Washington wouldn’t be a deterrant. Thanks!

You live around here in Spokane? You join the Spokane Canoe and Kayak Club yet? I’m the newsletter editor. We’re having our largest meeting/auction/potluck of the year come February 26th — next friday. If you wanna see a LOT of activity, come see it. Email me if you want more info.

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For the money you’re looking to spend, I would suggest you test paddle an OT Penobscot 17. I’ve used mine quite a bit on lakes in minneapolis and in the BWCA. It’s got moderate initial stability, fantastic secondary stability. It has no rocker so it tracks like a arrow, but turns like a pig. Leaning into a turn can give you a good bit of effective rocker. Its a great tripping boat.

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Tom, I was in your position a few years ago, let me tell you what I bought. I found that the best tradeoff for weight, durability, and cost, for lake and occasional class I/II rivers is fiberglass. Not the cheap chopper gun variety, but a canoe made up of decent sheet materials. I chose a Wenonah, largely because I have a great local dealer who sells them (as well as Mad River). Fiberglass advantages are hull stiffness without bulk which = paddling efficiency, no flex while paddling, easily repairable if it does become damaged, etc. Fiberglass slips across rocks in a low water condition much better than aluminum – avoid that material at all costs if you plan on running low water. About the only disadvantage is that the gel coat looks beautiful when new, and quickly gets scraped up pretty bad – but that means you’re actually USING the boat, doesn’t it? Your ideal boat in a plastic would be royalex – much lighter than the Old Town crosslink. It’s well worth the upgrade cost. I see tons of the Discovery boats for sale – and no royalex boats for sale!! You don’t find many (good) canoes for sale, because most people have no reason to sell them! They’re not that expensive, and last a lifetime with reasonable care. Good luck! Lou – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello! I realize that this has probably been beaten to death until some are sick of it, but being new to this group, thought I’d seek some advice anyway. Am going to buy a canoe this spring, & am in a quandry about the wisest choice, while still keeping to a reasonable price. Having seen very few used canoes for sale in my area, so looks like it might be a new canoe. I plan to use the canoe for hitting some lakes in my region with my sons….do some fly fishing, canoe camp occasionally, that type of thing. If the canoe I end up getting is worthy, the canoe might see some river use (probably nothing worse than Class II, possibly a little Class III, but maybe not), & might also make it to such places as Bowron Lakes & Myrtle Lake in B.C. for more extended canoe camping & paddling (with more portages, a person should start looking at weight….now the cost of the lighter canoes jumps up & introduces itself). I’ve looked at Old Town, Wenonah, Mad River, etc. A person could spend $1000 – $1400 for one of their lighter canoes, or could pay ~$700 for an Old Town Discovery that would suit the bill, but is somewhat heavier. Might also look at a Marathon, Grumman, Osagian, or Alumaweld aluminum canoe as well in that price range. Money being an object here, the price of a Coleman canoe (go ahead, let me have it!) locally is $269 – $319 looks pretty attractive. I know the Coleman would be a rugged, durable canoe. Trying to decide if it’s wiser to get a lighter, more quality designed canoe that would be more versatile in the long term, even if I have to charge !/2 of it or more, or pay cash for something like a Coleman since I’m fairly new to the sport, & would welcome advice from those who have already made such decisions. Would also welcome info about used canoes for sale where freight to eastern Washington wouldn’t be a deterrant. Thanks!

Response:

Hello! I realize that this has probably been beaten to death until some are sick of it, but being new to this group, thought I’d seek some advice anyway. Am going to buy a canoe this spring, & am in a quandry about the wisest choice, while still keeping to a reasonable price. Having seen very few used canoes for sale in my area, so looks like it might be a new canoe. I plan to use the canoe for hitting some lakes in my region with my sons….do some fly fishing, canoe camp occasionally, that type of thing. If the canoe I end up getting is worthy, the canoe might see some river use (probably nothing worse than Class II, possibly a little Class III, but maybe not), & might also make it to such places as Bowron Lakes & Myrtle Lake in B.C. for more extended canoe camping & paddling (with more portages, a person should start looking at weight….now the cost of the lighter canoes jumps up & introduces itself). I’ve looked at Old Town, Wenonah, Mad River, etc. A person could spend $1000 – $1400 for one of their lighter canoes, or could pay ~$700 for an Old Town Discovery that would suit the bill, but is somewhat heavier. Might also look at a Marathon, Grumman, Osagian, or Alumaweld aluminum canoe as well in that price range. Money being an object here, the price of a Coleman canoe (go ahead, let me have it!) locally is $269 – $319 looks pretty attractive. I know the Coleman would be a rugged, durable canoe. Trying to decide if it’s wiser to get a lighter, more quality designed canoe that would be more versatile in the long term, even if I have to charge !/2 of it or more, or pay cash for something like a Coleman since I’m fairly new to the sport, & would welcome advice from those who have already made such decisions. Would also welcome info about used canoes for sale where freight to eastern Washington wouldn’t be a deterrant. Thanks!

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Yes, it has been done a lot, infact I bet a search on dejanews (www.dejanews.com) would answer most if not all your questions. The coleman is a good boat for short paddles around a quiet lake once in a while, or for giving to a scout troop to learn in (cheap and nigh on industructible). I have an old town discovery 164 which is about the same as the penobscott, just weighs more… a lot more on a long portage. Personally I’d look around for a used good boat, and stay away from the colemans. Hope this helps Rich Johnson Enfield Nova Scotia Canada

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For flatwater, class I and Class II a good quality fiberglass (cloth, not spray in chopper gun) canoe would be the best bet. I’d look for a used one, some places (like Rutabaga in Madison, WI and Piragis in ELY, MN) sell a number of used boats like that. A new We-No-Nah in Tufweave (fiberglass like) can be had for $8-900. Western Canoeing has similar boats. Used Kevlar could be in the same range, used fiberglass less. These would work for Class I, not good for Class III, Class II depends on skill level. For mostly whitewater, Royalex is a better choice, but maybe you can borrow a canoe for those infrequent forays? It will be heavier and harder to paddle. Coleman’s are a poor design, Discovery’s are (in the 16′ 9" and 17′ 4" versions) an okay design, but overy heavy and don’t have the long term durability of Royalex. Aluminum is a fine material for flatwater, as good or better than plastic, but can be dangerous in whitewater and a pain in shallow rivers as it tends to stick to rocks, so it’s easy to get stuck and broach. I’d rather (actually I do) have a 17′ Grumman than a Coleman or Discovery. I’d look for a quality fiberglass or used Kevlar boat from We-No-Nah, Mad River, Western, Sawyer. — Andrew Gooding

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Author: admin on
Category: River Fly Fishing
Tags: River Fly Fishing

Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing Flies » How well can trout REALLY see?

How well can trout REALLY see?

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve read about a trouts field of view and its ability to sense vibration/disturbance through its lateral line. Does anyone know how well a trout can distinguish one object from another? Where I fish there are a lot of boulders and laurel. If I’m wearing subdued clothing and not splashing around, can a trout pick me out from the surrounding terrain? Find a copy of "In the Ring of the Rise" (Vincent Marinaro). More than you’ll ever want to know about trout vision… Cheers! /dave

Hi Dave I sure agree, V.Marinaro explains things very well. I especially remember him explaining about "one" hackle fiber on a pattern making the difference on catching or not catching fish. As I remember the hackle fiber was misplaced and extended over the eye of the hook or some-such. Good tying &… — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

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I’ve read about a trouts field of view and its ability to sense vibration/disturbance through its lateral line. Does anyone know how well a trout can distinguish one object from another? Where I fish there are a lot of boulders and laurel. If I’m wearing subdued clothing and not splashing around, can a trout pick me out from the surrounding terrain?

Find a copy of "In the Ring of the Rise" (Vincent Marinaro). More than you’ll ever want to know about trout vision… Cheers! /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp. Alpha Server Engineering < < Parker Street Campus Maynard, Massachusetts < < Charter Member of "Curmudgeons Unlimited" < <<<<<<<<<<<< AMA 548313 <<<<<<<<<<<< Disclaimer: Opinion and content is mine alone, and unlikely to be shared by my employer, etc…

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I am of the belief that if I can see a fish, the actual fish spots ‘n all, not shadows or riseforms, then they can definately see me. The problem then becomes one of threatening behaviour ie moving

I think you’ve got it about right there, Steve. Andrew

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How well can trout REALLY see?

Too damn well! -AR

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How well can trout REALLY see? Too damn well! -AR

After 15+ years of testing how well wild brown trout see…here are some basic conclusions IMHO: 1) they react to objects no farther than 45 feet left, right, and front in ideal visibility conditions 2) they react to objects (birds) as high as 80 ft. overhead in ideal visibility conditions 3) their optimum eyesight is about 8X that of a human’s from 4 ft. to 1 inch. BobE.

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92 degree window of vision….the deeper they are, the bigger this window gets. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How well can trout REALLY see? Too damn well! -AR

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I’ll tell you what…I’m planning on taking a dark brown magic marker to those damned white letters on the waders I got for christmas. TimW

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Re: How well can trout REALLY see? How well can trout REALLY see? Too damn well! -AR

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TimW — Ha! Ha! Just stay downstream…no need to worry. Seriously, I’d like to apologise to those who read my previous post about 8x vision…while I truly believe that *wild* browns (at least in my home waters) have this effective vision, the techniques I used to "prove" this to myself are not based on the kind of scientific procedure that I’d be willing to defend in public. I have done many of my own tests over the last 15 years to satisfy myself that the 8x figure is the accurate *effective* vision of a wild brown in certain (if not, most) feeding conditions…the theory has served me well, because using this principle my catch rate dramatically improved when I was actively fishing browns from 1982-1990, especially in spring creek and clear water habitates. It’s a long and complicated story that many flyfishers more knowledgeable than me (especially Dr. Bachman, TimW, Mr. Zink, Al Beatty, and a whole bunch more) could shoot a lot of holes thru. (Even I can shoot holes thru it.) When all is said and done, I don’t know for certain what and how well brown trout see. I just use the 8x as a rule of thumb to gage the quality of all brown trout flies I tie. Simply stated, I believe that if all tyers considered the 8x as a standard measurement to gage the quality of their flies they would catch a lot more trout …but only Seth Green knows this for sure. And, all of us have stories about the biggest trout we ever caught hitting a ragged and torn fly that looked terrible. From now on, I’ll be a little more cautious about spewing me theories. Thanks for your understanding. BobE. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ll tell you what…I’m planning on taking a dark brown magic marker to those damned white letters on the waders I got for christmas. TimW

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I’ll tell you what…I’m planning on taking a dark brown magic marker to those damned white letters on the waders I got for christmas. TimW

No Tim, Those white letters are called Christmas cards. All you need do is unstick them from your waders. If you have any further problems I am sure that there is a club nearby who hold beginners evenings and would be willing to help. Cheers Bruce….<g

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How well can trout REALLY see?

Really well, but not nearly as acutely as human’s. There is evidence that trout see farther into the ultraviolet and infrared at least while fingerlings and again during spawning. If Ralph Cutter happens to read this, he could probably give you the specifics of the color spectrum studies. No one can really tell you exactly what they see though, because no one has ever come back from being a fish – at least not with any memory of it. However, based on the biological make-up of their eyes we have some good guesses. On the human eye, the fovea (sp?) is a small indentation "" on the back of the retina that is covered with cone cells (color receptors). They are in a very high concentration in this spot with very few rod cells (black and white or low-light receptors) in evidence. The lens of the human eye focuses light on this fovea and that’s what gives us the visual acuity (sharp & clear vision) we enjoy – at least for a while. In low light the rod cells expand allowing us to see in black & white. Because there are few rod cells in the fovea, you will often see an object more clearly in low light if you look slightly off to the side of it. This puts more light on the surrounding rod cells and allows you to see the target better even if it is with your peripheral vision. Trout’s eyes have both rod cells and cone cells on the retina of their eye. During normal light conditions the cone cells are expanded – during low light, the cone cells recede and the rod cells expand allowing them to see by starlight. The retina does not however have a fovea, nor does the lens of the eye focus the light on any one small spot on the retina. Best guess is that although trout can see color all around and can judge distances well within a 30 degree cone in front of them (binocular vision) everything is still blurry even from 2" away. Acuity is somewhat lacking. This is perhaps one of the reasons why they take a fly that has an otherwise obvious hook hanging from it. Also helps explain why impressionist or imitative flies usually work much better than "realistic flies" which may match the natural perfectly. Hope this helps, Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

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, I know that I’ve seen trout streak 8-10 feet, from deep down, to take a small dry fly in moving water. I’ve also seen one rise to a cigarette butt. And I’ve scattered them from just far enough away for a good cast. Suffice to say, that a trout’s vision in water is analogous to your vision in air–they’ve adapted to survive and flourish, as have we (assuming I’m a human and not a fish). I can’t tell you if trout have 20/20 vision, what we think they see is just the best guess, only the trout know for sure. I don’t pay much attention to what I wear under my vest, but I am careful about moving slowly and casting shadows. Anglerboy

And don’t forget they can see behind underwater objects like rocks and tree branches by using the reflective mirror of the surface film outside the ‘window’, where they see through the surface. Avoid heavy footfalls on the river bank or when wading as their lateral line vibration sense is acute. I think that may be how seatrout (anadromous browns) can detect my size 14 black pennel on a pitch black night…. Pete Marrow work: http://www.gsrg.nmh.ac.uk/ play: http://www.gorp.com/gorp/activity/scottish_ff_faq.htm

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There have been a number of recent posts presuming to know how well trout see. My guess is that they are all WRONG! Who can tell us about *experiments* that increase the liklihood of any of these assertions to be true. There are optical effects produced by a small flies that may attract trout even if they cannot see the fly clearly. Certainly, even small dry flies dimple the surface of water causing light to refract in strange ways and cast fairly large shadows. Glints off of peacock and various reflective materials may also attract attention. A selective fish does not have to see the fly clearly. It can wait until it gets close before making an eat or flee response. I make no assertions about how trout see or process information. William Buchman

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Well put – no one really knows (and hence the vendors can sell us anything…). However, I DO know that a golf ball has eyes and a brain. Having tried to play golf I do know that balls that I find in the woods while looking for my ball soon will return there. It would seem that these "wild" balls differ in their genetic makeup from the store-bought put-n-putt cousins… but I digress….. — Tim Wohlford, DO NOT SEND JUNK E-MAIL: "By US Code Title 47, Sec.227(a)(2)(B), a computer/modem/printer meets the definition of a telephone fax machine. By Sec.227(b)(1)(C), it is unlawful to send any unsolicited advertisement to such equipment. By Sec.227(b)(3)(C), a violation of the aforementioned Section is punishable by action to recover actual monetary loss, or $500, whichever is greater, for each violation." – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There have been a number of recent posts presuming to know how well trout see. My guess is that they are all WRONG! Who can tell us about *experiments* that increase the liklihood of any of these assertions to be true. There are optical effects produced by a small flies that may attract trout even if they cannot see the fly clearly. Certainly, even small dry flies dimple the surface of water causing light to refract in strange ways and cast fairly large shadows. Glints off of peacock and various reflective materials may also attract attention. A selective fish does not have to see the fly clearly. It can wait until it gets close before making an eat or flee response. I make no assertions about how trout see or process information. William Buchman

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Though clothing is definetely a big consideration, I wouldn’t worry too much. You see, apparently even today’s most advanced trout can’t see well enough to detect the bend, point and barb of a hook. It’s amazing how these cunning, fabled creatures we pursue -which can supposedly detect the most microscopic details in color and size of the insects they are feeding on- somehow, time and time again, fail to notice the large, metallic-brown, bent, nasty-looking organ that is protruding from the crotch of every artificial fly that has ever been created. Fly fishing or lock-picking… Spinolio

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: I’ve read about a trouts field of view and its ability to sense : vibration/disturbance through its lateral line. Does anyone know how : well a trout can distinguish one object from another? Where I fish there : are a lot of boulders and laurel. If I’m wearing subdued clothing and : not splashing around, can a trout pick me out from the surrounding : terrain? : : Thanks in advance. Yes, no and maybe All the following occurred in bright sunny conditions about mid-day: Anecodote 1: at least 40 feet downstream of a fish tailing in 12" water … waved a fly away from my face, bow wave … one annoyed fish. Anecdote 2: next to, standing, a fish picking tasty morsels off a submerged log for 5 minutes. Approached from downstream *verrrry* slowly with the sun behind and casting shadows away from the fish, probably could have tailed it if I’d been that way inclined, moved my rod arm something caught his eye … gone. Anecdote 3: fish hard against a bank in a riffly run, I’m within a rod length, a birds shadow made it change position then return after a minute or so. Watching it feed, yup taking nymphs, scratched my nose … Gone. All three have a common thread, sudden or unexpected movement. I am of the belief that if I can see a fish, the actual fish spots ‘n all, not shadows or riseforms, then they can definately see me. The problem then becomes one of threatening behaviour ie moving Steve Still in Melbourne, Australia.

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Does anyone know how well a trout can distinguish one object from another?

G & A, I know that I’ve seen trout streak 8-10 feet, from deep down, to take a small dry fly in moving water. I’ve also seen one rise to a cigarette butt. And I’ve scattered them from just far enough away for a good cast. Suffice to say, that a trout’s vision in water is analogous to your vision in air–they’ve adapted to survive and flourish, as have we (assuming I’m a human and not a fish). I can’t tell you if trout have 20/20 vision, what we think they see is just the best guess, only the trout know for sure. I don’t pay much attention to what I wear under my vest, but I am careful about moving slowly and casting shadows. Anglerboy

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Trout have excellent vision, especially character recognition. I’ve found that they usually read the fishing regulations before the season opens, and on opening day take an extended vacation to parts unknown. el coyotero was here

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writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know how well a trout can distinguish one object from another? G & A, I know that I’ve seen trout streak 8-10 feet, from deep down, to take a small dry fly in moving water. I’ve also seen one rise to a cigarette butt. And I’ve scattered them from just far enough away for a good cast. Suffice to say, that a trout’s vision in water is analogous to your vision in air–they’ve adapted to survive and flourish, as have we (assuming I’m a human and not a fish). I can’t tell you if trout have 20/20 vision, what we think they see is just the best guess, only the trout know for sure. I don’t pay much attention to what I wear under my vest, but I am careful about moving slowly and casting shadows. Anglerboy

They can see better in smooth water vs. rippled water so you are more likely to spook trout in pools. Their eyes are placed on the sides of their heads so they have a wider angle of vision than we do. They can pick out a size #28 nymph without any problems. My best guess is that they see movement much better than we do. Their natural enemies (birds etc.) strike from above and food is also often found on the surface so they’re tuned into motion from above. Also they hear very well with a band of "ears" along their sides and can easily hear you stomping around on the banks long before they can see you in some cases. Good thing their brain is only the size of a pea. <G Don Burns

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Category: Fly Fishing Flies
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Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing Tying » Michigan Flyfishing Clubs

Michigan Flyfishing Clubs

Question:

I’m brand new to flyfishing and was wondering if getting involved in a club was the best way to get started. I live in the "Thumb" of Michigan. Any comments would be helpful. Thank you. Jeff.

Response:

I’m brand new to flyfishing and was wondering if getting involved in a club was the best way to get started. I live in the "Thumb" of Michigan.

Club membership is the best way for beginners. There are probably locals in your state of both Trout Unlimited and the Federation of Fly Fishermen. Your quickest line would be to ask at a specialist FF store as near as possible to either your home or your likely fishing region. There is a famous store and lodge run by "Rusty" Gates on the Ausable at Grayling, another at Traverse City etc.: browse this newsgroup for phone numbers. — | Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs, | | Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734 |

Response:

I’m brand new to flyfishing and was wondering if getting involved in a club was the best way to get started. I live in the "Thumb" of Michigan. Any comments would be helpful. Thank you. Jeff.

Hi Jeff, A club is a great way to learn from friends – either casting, fishing, and tying. To locate a club near you call the Federation of Fly Fishers at 800-618-0808 and ask about a FFF club near you. A local fly shop is also another source for this information. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

Response:

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Category: Fly Fishing Tying
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Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Flyfishing » Who is…………Tim Walker?

Who is…………Tim Walker?

Question:

I’m new to the Newsgroup and there must be a story here. Who is Tim Walker?

Response:

I have no idea who Tim Walker is, but I thought he was kinda funny. .02

: A pest. He dominated this newsgroup with rhetoric and opinions, all : designed to induce argument. He is one of only a few people on this : newsgroup that are not polite. He says he’s gone. Let’s hope. : John Nesselrode : Shawnee, KS — Burnaby, BC

Response:

Just what are newsgroups supposed to be all about? It would seem that thought provoking dialogs should be they are all about. I for one could stand a fewer ads for alarm clocks and more of Tim’s opinions that make me stop and think a little. I admit that I came into this newsgroup in the middle of the Tim Walker era but what was "not polite" about his posts? Seemed to me that he was simply trying to sort some things out regarding our sport. The fact that he generated such confrontational and heated responses would indicate he struck some raw nerves. He was only a pest if you let him get under your skin. If we don’t have people presenting us with difficult topics to think about then this newsgroup won’t be worth stopping at.

Response:

I’m new to the Newsgroup and there must be a story here. Who is Tim Walker?

Well,I’ve been watching this group for a couple of years.First thing I saw was Tim Walker enjoying for creation of this group.Ever since I’ve been enjoying his postings -not that i agreed everything he claimed- because his capability of making us see things from another view.If you’re a C&R fanatic and don’t think flyfishing is basically about killing fish,you could’ve found him irritating and offending (wouldn’t have been the first one…),but now he’s been gone(i hope not for permanently) me for sure i feel this group has lost something vital, some sort of counterforce to all this commercial,forgetting-the-real-thing flyfishing that has been coming so popular these days.All right,I’ve never fished in U.S. and do not know very much about your conditions,but if it’s anything like here in Finland,i think our sport is going to be something else what it used to be.Even C&R can not make it what it used to be,and maybe we should forget all those beautiful imag es that the film "the river runs through it" painted for us.We have to accept us being a part of flyfishing industry, sponsored by hi-tech manufacturers. Sorry I didn’t answer your question precisely,but was merely sharing my feelings. As a famous finnish author (J.Aho) once wrote some 80 years ago: "first time the trout took my fly,I knew it was me hooked,not the fish." I wish I could have been fishing with him. And answerig your questions,i sure kill my fish.Last summer i killed two trouts (both about 16 inches) and some arctic graylings (about same size). And no sign of guilty. no matter how you’re fishing,tight lines. -Pekka-

Response:

A pest. He dominated this newsgroup with rhetoric and opinions, all designed to induce argument. He is one of only a few people on this newsgroup that are not polite. He says he’s gone. Let’s hope. John Nesselrode Shawnee, KS Just what are newsgroups supposed to be all about? It would seem that thought provoking dialogs should be they are all about. I for one could stand a fewer ads for alarm clocks and more of Tim’s opinions that make me stop and think a little.

Tim’s postings were often very poorly thought out. He had a habit of ignoring points that showed where he had contradicted himself while while trumpeting irrelevant non sequiturs. He had some good points, but you had to wade through a lot of chaff to get to the good stuff. I admit that I came into this newsgroup in the middle of the Tim Walker era but what was "not polite" about his posts? Seemed to me that he was simply trying to sort some things out regarding our sport. The fact that he generated such confrontational and heated responses would indicate he struck some raw nerves. He was only a pest if you let him get under your skin.

Tim accused fisherfolk in general, and C&Rers in particular, of being cruel and disrespectful of fish. This is a serious charge, and it is difficult to make it without being impolite. Tim was not always up to the challenge. I sometimes found Tim tiresome because he often seemed to be more interested in heat than in light. It is not enough to start an argument. If a discussion is to be satisfying, then there should be a considered, reasoned exchange. Tim frequently sidestepped perceptive replies, apparently preferring to inflame when he should have ceded a point and thanked the other poster for their insight. If we don’t have people presenting us with difficult topics to think about then this newsgroup won’t be worth stopping at.

Tim is not a bad person, and he certainly did make a contribution, but sometimes he was also a pest. — Keep your stick on the ice.

Response:

Be thankful that he is gone. Yippi tie one on! AuSable1

Response:

I have tied 6 Elk Hair Caddis size 14 from one Hoffman saddle hackle. In fact, that is about average for the longer hackles. Of course, I usually palmer the hackle rather heavily.

Response:

Rick Fletcher in a recent post said Newsgroups were created to promote honest discussion and argument; keep in mind networks were created mainly by academics and scientists and arguing is how we spend a good amount of our time. If you don’t want to argue, fine, don’t join in. But don’t complain because it happens. Learn to use a kill file or a capable newsreader.

One of the things that one likes to see is reasoned, open minded discussion. Tim often did not provide this. He often sidestepped relevant points. Instead, he would counter by starting a new, unrelated, and irrelevant line of argument. A string of non sequiturs is not an enlightening discussion. Unfortunately, Tim did not flag his dopey posts, so we had to wade through a lot of nonsense to get to the interesting bits. In other words, I objected to many of Tim’s posts for the same reason that other people are incensed by ads; they waste my time by filling up bandwidth with undodgeable drivel. Some of Tim’s stuff was good, but so much of it was nonsense. It does not matter that Tim was here in the good old days when there were few people who had to suffer through his bad posts. The fact is, regardless of Tim’s history or credentials, he posted a lot of time wasting nonsense. That is pesty, no matter who does it. — Keep your stick on the ice.

Response:

Tim Walker sends me email – and he fishes for trout sometimes. That makes him OK with me. Oliver Inverness-shire; Scotland "Lead me not into temptation – I can do it myself"

Response:

What is HUAC, BTW? — Jim Powlesland | OFFICE: 403-220-7937 University Computing Services | MESSAGE: 403-220-6201 University of Calgary | FAX: 403-282-9199 Calgary, Alberta CANADA T2N 1N4 | URL: http://www.ucalgary.

ca/~powlesla/ HUAC=House Unamerican Activities Committee, a lovely little group set up during the McCarth era (not Gene) to investigate commie pinko radical and maybe even in the current time frame environmental types. As a Canadian, you weren’t blessed with such a fine use of governmental resources. The fact that Pavlov could even reference it (HUAC) means that he is either an historian or an old fart like me. Mike in PDX "When the trout are lost, smash the state." Tom McGuane

Response:

OBroff: We have had massive flooding throughout Northern Idaho. Can anyone comment on how we should expect this to affect the fishing come spring? — Rick

Don’t expect the sandbars to be where you left them last season! :^) Charley

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : A pest. He dominated this newsgroup with rhetoric and opinions, all : designed to induce argument. He is one of only a few people on this : newsgroup that are not polite. He says he’s gone. Let’s hope. (snip) Newsgroups have mellowed considerably over the past year and a half…a lot of current readers don’t seem to be comfortable with intellectual challenge. Before the "discovery" of the net by the general public, that is what the newsgroups were all about, so don’t be offended because it continues. This is not a polite and cordial backyard barbecue. (snip) — Rick T. Rick Fletcher – http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Mr. Fletcher, I get the feeling that when you say: "Before the discovery of the net

by the ge neral public", you mean the general public is anyone without "edu" in their addr ess. Are you one of the dreaded elitist? Regards, Cedro Wooley Hear, hear! Touche’, Mr. Wooley. Stick around, please. Ed Hunsaker

– It is obvious that the two of you (maybe others) do not know Mr. Fletcher or Mr.Walker. I’m sure you don’t. I do. No, not personally. I have been reading there posts for years now. In fact, I have even written directly to them for info and advice. You have missed Mr. Fletcher’s point. Actually, there is really no possible way for you to get it. You see, Mr. Fletcher has been on this board for years. In fact, I’m sure I’ve seen him on alt. fishing .fly when that was being read. To help make his point, let me inform you of this. As little as two years ago there were very few people on the net. In fact, there was a list of the users of rec. flyfishing. It was only a couple pages long. It hasn’t been too difficult to notice the changes that have taken place on this board. Was it better two years ago? Probably yes. No, there weren’t as many people or potential resources on the net but , it was much more personal and in depth. There weren’t any mundane discussions about wader odor, proper hat color,or the Orvis wonder wagon. That’s not to say there weren’t heated discussions. Tim started his share of them then, too. You see, it’s like comparing the country to cities. The more people you have in one area, the more assholes there are likely to be. Well, there are more and more people using the net. Fortunately,there are alot of great new people on it. Unfortunately, there are alot of new assholes as well. It just so happens that most of these people (both kinds) are coming from aol., prodigy, etc.. And, access to the internet Here’s to the new communications bill! Jason By the way, yes, my adress ends in edu. However, I am a nymph fisherman. Hardly an elitist venture.

Response:

: Newsgroups have mellowed considerably over the past year and a half…a : lot of current readers don’t seem to be comfortable with intellectual : challenge. Before the "discovery" of the net by the general public, : that is what the newsgroups were all about, so don’t be offended because : it continues. This is not a polite and cordial backyard barbecue. : I get the feeling that when you say: "Before the discovery of the net : by the general public", you mean the general public is anyone without : "edu" in their address. Are you one of the dreaded elitist? One doesn’t need to be using an .edu machine in order to access the newsreader on that machine. Perhaps I prefer the newsreader on my .edu account. Some providers claim it is impossible, but there is this thing called telnet. How would you prefer I describe the growth in use of Usenet? Prior to 2 years ago, the number of folks with access was limited…now it is less so. I don’t mean to offend, but I’m at a loss for another way to mention the change. For example, I teach a class for tuition paying students one semester, then I offer it to the general public during summer. Does this indicate elitism? Or the opposite… I did engage in an ugly personal attack against one reader who called a friend a pest. I think it is a big stretch from that action to elitist. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher – http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry | That’s Idaho, not Iowa. | ad hominem University of Idaho | Upper Left Hand Corner. | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343 | No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

Hear, hear! Touche’, Mr. Wooley. Stick around, please. Ed Hunsaker —

Response:

Jim, you didn’t perchance work for HUAC back in the 50’s and 60’s, did you ???

I think Jim picked up his technique (and accuracy) by studying McCarthyism. M

Response:

OBffing: I just purchased another Hoffmann #2 and I’ve yet to tie "12 flys from one feather". Is this folklore? — Rick

Rick, Was it a neck or a saddle? :^) Charley

Response:

Rick Fletcher writes: OBroff: We have had massive flooding throughout Northern Idaho. Can anyone comment on how we should expect this to affect the fishing come spring?

I’d love to comment on this, Rick, but since I’m a pesky AOL user I doubt you would see any merit in my insights :^) I’m probably going to be checking out of this newsgroup pretty soon, myself. Too many advertisements; too many elitists. In this sense, rec.outdoors.fishing.fly has become a true mirror of the sport of flyfishing and everything that is ruining it. Besides, it’s too damn nice outside to be sitting in here! Happy trails, Steve

Response:

(snip) Newsgroups have mellowed considerably over the past year and a half…a lot of current readers don’t seem to be comfortable with intellectual challenge. Before the "discovery" of the net by the general public, that is what the newsgroups were all about, so don’t be offended because it continues. This is not a polite and cordial backyard barbecue.

Mr. Fletcher, I get the feeling that when you say: "Before the discovery of the net by the general public", you mean the general public is anyone without "edu" in their address. Are you one of the dreaded elitist? Regards, Cedro Wooley <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

It is the nature of Man to conserve within himself traces of ancient hatreds and battles. - BonFar

Author: admin on
Category: Flyfishing
Tags: Flyfishing

Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » Colorado – Rio Grande River

Colorado – Rio Grande River

Question:

I will be fly fishing the area between Creed and South Fork July 1st through the 7th. Any information on hatches, water conditions, or recommendations will be greatly appreciated. Joe H. Green

Response:

I will be fly fishing the area between Creed and South Fork July 1st through the 7th. Any information on hatches, water conditions, or recommendations will be greatly appreciated.

Hed upstream to 4th of Jult Canyon (accesible by car) for some really good beaver pond fishing. There are some large brookies in the area. Bob McDuffee Network Services Manager, WICHE Office:303.541.0299 Fax:303.541.0291

Response:

I will be fly fishing the area between Creed and South Fork July 1st through the 7th. Any information on hatches, water conditions, or recommendations will be greatly appreciated. I’m afraid you may find conditions less than ideal. The Rio Grande, along w/ most other Colo. rivers at the

moment, is running extremely high and roily and will probably not drop and clear until late July. Denver, Colorado ftp.rmii.com/pub2/gwgodden

Response:

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Category: Fly Fishing
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Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » Fly fishing question…again…

Fly fishing question…again…

Question:

While looking through some fishing catalogs that have recently made it to my mailbox, a question came to mind… I know that a tapered leader is an option…and so is a knotted taper… my question is, can I use "regular" monofilament for the taper or even the tippet for that matter…I mean, isn’t it all essentially the same stuff? Also, I stumbled across a "Hobbs Creek Combo" in the Bass Pro catalog… it’s a 8-1/2 ft 7 wt w/ a rod bag, wf-7-f line, 100 yd backing and a tapered leader thrown in…all for the unbelievably low price of $94.95…that’s right, only 94.95…so call now…uh, sorry…sales pitc mode…does anyone have any experience with this combo? or any other combos in this "super-cheapy" range? There’s also a graphite rod combo for $179.94 that might be a better "investment"…anyhow, if you have the catalog, look on page 50 and 51 and let me know if any of these are worth looking at… Fish on!, JC

Response:

Yes, it’s "all the same stuff". However, remember that the taper relates to the diameter of the material, not its breaking strength. And since manufacturers don’t necessarily produce a uniform diameter to strength product, you have to watch it. Four pound test may not be thinner than six pound test from a different manufacturer. Charley

Response:

Yeah it’s all the same stuff. Unless you buy a tapered leader the mono you buy is all level. There are pros & cons to buying as well as tying your own leaders, but as a general rule I would stick to buying tapered. They are certainly more convenient and easier to deal with and I havn’t found a situation where they wouldn’t work. Save yourself the effort of tying, unless you really need a specialized leader (long & fine for drys…etc.). As per the rod you probably should try to decide how serious you want to be before you buy. Save yourself the money of buying two outfits (a cheap one now & an upgrade later)esp. if you intend to persue the sport for life. I recommend a Sage 590 RPL and a Ross Gunnison reel. This outfit will cover you for 90% of the freshwater fishing you will encounter and will last a lifetime. If you are still concerned about the price check out the Sage Discovery Series (rod, reel, and line) for around $250 the extra investment is definately worth the enjoyment of fishing with better equipment. TIEFLIE

Response:

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Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki

Government issued id?

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