Question:

Is there any good coastal flyfishing in the Santa Barbara to Monterrey area in the autumn?  Maybe even at thanksgiving?   I’ve heard about good striper fishing in the Bay area, but I don’t know about farther south.   thanks, Plattelines

Response:

Is there any good coastal flyfishing in the Santa Barbara to Monterrey area in the autumn?  Maybe even at thanksgiving?  

Dan Blanton’s board is a good source for ffing the salt in California. Try your question at http://www.danblanton.com/bulletin.html.

Response:

Question:

<snip I understand what you’re saying Stan but your spin off my post doesn’t quite gel to what I was trying to say.  I will elucidate upon it a little more for media clarification here.

George: I’ll admit that I haven’t a clue what your point is most of the time. Like, for example, what the hell does the subject of this thread mean? So, elucidate some more: Were you referring to some particular magazine article or book reference or a posting here on roff or rofft that failed to use the original pattern and materials for some famous fly?  If so, a reference would have helped establish a context for your post.  Without a context, your post comes off as simple pontification and a plea for hero worship, both of which chafe. Apologies for failing to gel – it must be the pineapple. –Stan PS for Eugene Knapik: tie up all the traditional streamers you like.  It’s freedom of choice, man.  I love it.  Some of my Mickey Finns look like Mickey Finns too.

Response:

geez guys, I usually keep a box of streamers buried in my vest to play with when there isn’t much doing…some of them look a little like the patterns in that lovely Bates book….that being said, if I was tying streamers for sport, I’d be going after the classic look, original materials and the whole snotty bit…why not, its a fine tradition… Eugene Knapik Toronto

Eugene, I don’t recognize your "handle," so I’ll guess you are either an infrequent poster, a lurker, or new to ROFF.  If you don’t realize what’s up with Ginkles (Gehrke), only a google groups search, several hours of sometimes-humorous, sometimes-sad reading will truly bring you up to speed.  A by-no-means complete, albeit completely representative, selection of his greatest hits can be found at www.ginkstinks.com (I have nothing to do with this site, but I highly recommend it).  That said: Of course you should tie what pleases you and/or your target fish.  If you are tying flies for fishing, IMO, tie what works, regardless of materials – some of the now-classic patterns, and now-traditional patterns that were mods of "classics," started as bits of long johns, jacket lining, and other "non-traditional" materials.  If you are tying for your, or other people’s, enjoyment, such as for "display" or presentation flies, then, by all means, tie with what you feel is appropriate for that context.  Tying "classics" is, as you correctly point out, a fine tradition, and a fine hobby unto itself. TC, R

Response:

<snip You’re doing just fine Stan. You got the point and I’m sure your Bate’s style Mickey Finns will work great.

Nope.  Didn’t get your point, and you didn’t get mine.  I don’t tie anything in anybody’s style but mine. Fudd’s First Law of Opposition applies. My work is done. –Stan (off to Dr. Beddoes Pneumatic Institute)

Response:

rdean is crazier and loonier then Wolfgang on expresso!

An "instant classic" literary vignette on virtually every post….

Response:

rdean is crazier and loonier then Wolfgang on expresso! An "instant classic" literary vignette on virtually every post….

But not all for the same reasons.  This one has merit.    :) Wolfgang

Response:

rdean is crazier and loonier then Wolfgang on expresso! An "instant classic" literary vignette on virtually every post…. But not all for the same reasons.  This one has merit.    :)

My mistake – I didn’t know expresso was a legitimate variant of espresso. It’s funny how the more you make fun of people, the more you learn…

Response:

rdean is crazier and loonier then Wolfgang on expresso! An "instant classic" literary vignette on virtually every post…. But not all for the same reasons.  This one has merit.    :) My mistake – I didn’t know expresso was a legitimate variant of espresso. It’s funny how the more you make fun of people, the more you learn…

Somebody, (two people) out of 9000 Active & Inactive (stalkers of roff) finally got it!  Jeff?  You get a gold star next to your name this morning.  I’m so impressed,  you drew me out of semi retirement.  A+ my friend.  You get an A+! Imagine Wolfgang’s demeanor when onpresso?

Response:

Try staying up for a week, consuming nothing but double espresso until the 8th day, and then eating 4 pounds of anchovy paste and a box of dry Grape Nuts, all washed down with about a gallon of grain alcohol Thunderdog, and then, find a carnival and buy an hour on the Tilt-a-Whirl…come home and try to post, from memory, the entire "St Crispen’s Day" speech from Henry V, as "your good friend" Yogi Berra would have made it, embellished with a critique of the strategies used in the Battle of Agincourt….in the first person plural, of course… TA-DA!  Ginklespew!  Literary Ginklespew, but Ginklespew shall it be…

        And gentlemen in England now a-bed         Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,         And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks         That heard with us Saint Ginkle’s bray. TC, R who knows Ginkles just holds his manhood, such as it may be, cheap…

Cheap or dear, at least he does the job himself! Wolfgang as in who else would?

Response:

rdean is crazier and loonier then Wolfgang on expresso! George who is sipping club soda

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip I understand what you’re saying Stan but your spin off my post doesn’t quite gel to what I was trying to say.  I will elucidate upon it a little more for media clarification here. George: I’ll admit that I haven’t a clue what your point is most of the time. Like, for example, what the hell does the subject of this thread mean? So, elucidate some more: Were you referring to some particular magazine article or book reference or a posting here on roff or rofft that failed to use the original pattern and materials for some famous fly?  If so, a reference would have helped establish a context for your post.  Without a context, your post comes off as simple pontification and a plea for hero worship, both of which chafe.

Never strive to do this.  It could be your reading style?  :)))))))))) ! (just kidding) Apologies for failing to gel – it must be the pineapple. –Stan PS for Eugene Knapik: tie up all the traditional streamers you like.  It’s freedom of choice, man.  I love it.  Some of my Mickey Finns look like Mickey Finns too.

You’re doing just fine Stan. You got the point and I’m sure your Bate’s style Mickey Finns will work great. — George

Response:

You once said you live in a world we can only imagine.  Well, I have to agree with you there. Seems we are bound to disagree about everything.  Personally, I CANNOT imagine!    :) Wolfgang who has always prided himself on having a fair to horseshit imagination.

When it comes to you, "I can" imagine. I picture you sitting on a big boulder with fist sized rock in your hand over your head.  You’re naked because you cannot imagine wearing clothes in you’re imagination.  Imagine that!  Between your legs are three little, itty-bitty rocks you’re about to try and crack open.  One is a little stone and the other two rocks are you’re own.  You have this confused look on your face Wolfgang. Sitting beside you, on the boulder is a real walnut.  In fact, there are several of them.  In addition to this scene, beside you sits a chimpanzee and he has broken walnut shells scattered all around him.  The chimp has his hand over its’ mouth.  Next to the chimp sits LaCourse with both his hands over his eyes screaming, "I CAN’T LOOK!!" Imagine yourself finally getting up the nerve to hit one of those stones . . . This is really unimaginable.  Can you imagine that Wolfie? I can’t.

Response:

geez guys, I usually keep a box of streamers buried in my vest to play with when there isn’t much doing…some of them look a little like the patterns in that lovely Bates book….that being said, if I was tying streamers for sport, I’d be going after the classic look, original materials and the whole snotty bit…why not, its a fine tradition… Eugene Knapik Toronto

Yes, indeed, and why not when you’re able? g.g.

Response:

……Some of my Mickey Finns look like Mickey Finns too.

Some of mine look more like Mickey Spillane……but it don’t matter……the fish hate ‘em…..like cops hate doughnuts. Wolfgang

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My life as a fly fisherman is a world in which I’m surrounded by books and of many things I’ve invented for fly fishing and its’ patrons. Most often I’m afield and learning by doing.  Sometimes, I will sit down and write a short article so as to give back a little of what I’ve learned, if just a little of that cloak which surrounds me and which was my life. You once said you live in a world we can only imagine.  Well, I have to agree with you there. Seems we are bound to disagree about everything.  Personally, I CANNOT imagine!    :)

Try staying up for a week, consuming nothing but double espresso until the 8th day, and then eating 4 pounds of anchovy paste and a box of dry Grape Nuts, all washed down with about a gallon of grain alcohol Thunderdog, and then, find a carnival and buy an hour on the Tilt-a-Whirl…come home and try to post, from memory, the entire "St Crispen’s Day" speech from Henry V, as "your good friend" Yogi Berra would have made it, embellished with a critique of the strategies used in the Battle of Agincourt….in the first person plural, of course… TA-DA!  Ginklespew!  Literary Ginklespew, but Ginklespew shall it be… TC, R who knows Ginkles just holds his manhood, such as it may be, cheap… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Wolfgang who has always prided himself on having a fair to horseshit imagination.

Response:

My life as a fly fisherman is a world in which I’m surrounded by books and of many things I’ve invented for fly fishing and its’ patrons. Most often I’m afield and learning by doing.  Sometimes, I will sit down and write a short article so as to give back a little of what I’ve learned, if just a little of that cloak which surrounds me and which was my life.

You once said you live in a world we can only imagine.  Well, I have to agree with you there.

Response:

My life as a fly fisherman is a world in which I’m surrounded by books and of many things I’ve invented for fly fishing and its’ patrons. Most often I’m afield and learning by doing.  Sometimes, I will sit down and write a short article so as to give back a little of what I’ve learned, if just a little of that cloak which surrounds me and which was my life. You once said you live in a world we can only imagine.  Well, I have to agree with you there.

Seems we are bound to disagree about everything.  Personally, I CANNOT imagine!    :) Wolfgang who has always prided himself on having a fair to horseshit imagination.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Somehow, I enjoy the names of such streamers as "The Black Nosed Dace, The Alaskan Mary Ann, or the classic Mickey Finn," which are explained in perfect detail without being bastardized by modern short cuts or tying techniques which can have a half dozen or more un-original opinions on how to tie the classics.  It’s sacrilege and the new versions of such flies changed in print really makes the art of fly tying these classics a polluted sport. <incessant droning snipped Use of new materials, modern shortcuts, variation, adaptation to local conditions are what tying your own flies is all about.  Only collectors care if a particular fly is tied according to some magical formula using eye of jungle cock and wing of argus.  Most of us only care about catching fish, and we tie flies that hopefully work on our home waters.  Trial and error experimentation is what drives the evolution of working flies, not magic formulas. There was a lengthy thread on rofft earlier this year about why people tie their own flies, and the ability to adapt a pattern over time to be more effective is probably the biggest reason.  It’s why I tie my own caddisses instead of buying the cookie cutter versions from a fly shop. Fly fishing and fly tying is not a hero worship contest.  The best fishermen and tyers I’ve met were not big name pros, but rather regular guys, carpenters, desk jockeys, doctors, computer geeks (gotta love the computer geeks), electricians and plumbers who just love the activity for it’s own sake.  We will tie our flies and go fishing regardless of the cult figures who try to make a living out of our sport. –Stan (tying for the hell of it)

I understand what you’re saying Stan but your spin off my post doesn’t quite gel to what I was trying to say.  I will elucidate upon it a little more for media clarification here. Let’s mention the Alaskan Mary Ann and Mickey Finn Streamers.  These are specific names of the original streamers.  If you, as a fly tier are going to write an article on the Mickey Finn, the literary world will assume you’re tying the original version per "Bates" recorded version. IF, on the other hand you’re going to write about the Mickey Finn using modern day artificial materials, then in my opinion, you cannot and should not refer to the fly as THE Mickey Fin but rather The Mickey Fin (AM Version).  This means, Artificial Materials Version, a modern day deviation.  It may be better than the original and then again it may not.   The short of it is this.  There is only one original way to tie the Mickey Finn. (as an example) If you deviate from that original version in any way, your fly has to (should) give notice or credit to "any" changes.  It would be the responsible thing to do if and when anyone writes about traditional patterns in the future. George Gehrke

Response:

        (self serving simpering snipped) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s sacrilege and the new versions of such flies changed in print really makes the art of fly tying these classics a polluted sport. <incessant droning snipped Big freaking deal. Fly fishing and fly tying is not a hero worship contest.  The best fishermen and tyers I’ve met were not big name pros, but rather regular guys, carpenters, desk jockeys, doctors, computer geeks (gotta love the computer geeks), electricians and plumbers who just love the activity for it’s own sake.  We will tie our flies and go fishing regardless of the cult figures who try to make a living out of our sport. –Stan (tying for the hell of it)

        stan, surely you see that the whole point of that pompous blathering was george’s attempt to have us peons recognize that he walks daily with the legends of the sport—and, ultimately, to demonstrate that he, too, is part of the same immortal pantheon.         yeah, i figured you understood. your friend in the old north state wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

geez guys, I usually keep a box of streamers buried in my vest to play with when there isn’t much doing…some of them look a little like the patterns in that lovely Bates book….that being said, if I was tying streamers for sport, I’d be going after the classic look, original materials and the whole snotty bit…why not, its a fine tradition… Eugene Knapik Toronto

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I regard Bates book on streamers a classic for modern times mainly because the materials are logged accurately.  I find myself going back to Bates tying instructions more and more since I purchased the NOR Vise because with it, the materials are spun better and the shapes are well honed due to this rotary’s smooth nature.  Self control can’t be better. Does NOR make a keyboard? Somehow, I enjoy the names of such streamers as "The Black Nosed Dace, The Alaskan Mary Ann, or the classic Mickey Finn," which are explained in perfect detail without being bastardized by modern short cuts or tying techniques which can have a half dozen or more un-original opinions on how to tie the classics.  It’s sacrilege and the new versions of such flies changed in print really makes the art of fly tying these classics a polluted sport. DAMN STRAIGHT!  Let’s get back to the original twelve of Walton…except his were derivative of the _Treatyse_….so let’s get back to those twelve…anybody got a source for "rotty wull" and "redde hakyll?"  But shucks, that won’t work, because the "Dame" was apparently a 15th century Ginkles – a mostly made up, derivative plagiarism, added to sell stuff (in this case, books, and while looking to the _Treatyse_ for contextual historic info is useful, it is what it is…).  What are we to do? Now, don’t misunderstand me No danger of that…SPLORK VANG MU to the nTH power… between what I like and dislike when it comes to relieving fly tying material pressures upon the creatures of our realm.  For instance, there just isn’t enough Polar Bears to go around to supply the fur to tie enough Alaskan Mary Ann’s should the Streamer Fly Fishing Public rediscover just how deadly a fly this old mainstay is.  Besides being beautiful just to look at, The Alaskan Mary Ann isn’t known very well today.  If it wasn’t for the fact that the majority of today’s fly fishermen are just as happy to use an artificial substitute to replace the iridescent qualities of Polar Bear Hair, it wouldn’t be a good idea to state this flies praises.  Consider, for instance, that one has to kill one, very large, very wild, very remote living, very uncooperative, animal that wants to do just one thing.  Eat you! Is it any wonder that any of us (self included)should be able to figure something else out jus to tie ONE FLY out of one very unusual hide?  The price is just too, too much. But..but..but you said…so, let’s recap: if you don’t use the original material, it’s "sacrilege" that "pollutes" the sport, but you yourself do it…oh, wait, I see it’s a confession…well, carry on, then… However! I don’t like where this is heading – a confession, but with an excuse… Some of us still have some Polar Bear from over fifty years ago and with us, the original Alaskan Mary Ann still lives, via Bates’ versions taken directly from his wonderful classic.  (Today, new materials replace the need to kill Polar Bears) Sacrilege!  Pollution, I say… Polar Bear is a very difficult fur to duplicate artificially because some of it has a certain gold tinge to it.  I’ve been able to duplicate that in the series of fly tying materials we manufacture. AHA!  It’s not just a confession with an excuse, it’s SPAM! (name-dropping section edited for space) …Bates…Today’s Masters,  such as Dan Byford of Zonker fame… Dave Whitlock and unsung to most…is the fact that Ernest Schwiebert has magic, artistic hands…such as Doug Swisher… Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, Joe DiMaggio, Jackie Robinson…hey, I wrote the names so I’m a famous dead baseball legend, too!  Boy, this is cool! Cookie Monster, Big Bird, Oscar, Gink…hey, you’re a Muppet! To become a fly fisherman and to be known "as a fly fisherman" is not a gift that is handed to us.  It requires work and if not years of work, Sorta like "Ginkles," "jehrke," "putz," and one of my personal favs, "Muppethead"… for some, its a lifetime of study and dedication.  If any of us thought we knew it all, most would stop fly fishing for it has become boring for them. So you’ve quit fishing?  Oh, clever – you wrote "most"… My life as a fly fisherman is a world in which I’m surrounded by books and of many things I’ve invented for fly fishing and its’ patrons. Um, invented?  Well, OK, to be fair, maybe the combination flyrod, tomato stake, and tiki torch is all yours, but I don’t know if that will get you a place in the history books, Ginkles…I mean, someone will point out the damn things shoulda been burnt anyway, and about all they’re good for is plant-staking, and it sorta knocks the cache of ownership from your "invention"… Most often I’m afield and learning by doing. And you’ll never wizz on an electrified fence again, right? Sometimes, I will sit down and write a short article so as to give back a little of what I’ve learned, I agree: Nothing gained, nothing ventured…. if just a little of that cloak which surrounds me and which was my life. Have you considered using mothballs in the cloakroom, Ginkles?

Response:

I regard Bates book on streamers a classic for modern times mainly because the materials are logged accurately.  I find myself going back to Bates tying instructions more and more since I purchased the NOR Vise because with it, the materials are spun better and the shapes are well honed due to this rotary’s smooth nature.  Self control can’t be better.

Does NOR make a keyboard? Somehow, I enjoy the names of such streamers as "The Black Nosed Dace, The Alaskan Mary Ann, or the classic Mickey Finn," which are explained in perfect detail without being bastardized by modern short cuts or tying techniques which can have a half dozen or more un-original opinions on how to tie the classics.  It’s sacrilege and the new versions of such flies changed in print really makes the art of fly tying these classics a polluted sport.

DAMN STRAIGHT!  Let’s get back to the original twelve of Walton…except his were derivative of the _Treatyse_….so let’s get back to those twelve…anybody got a source for "rotty wull" and "redde hakyll?"  But shucks, that won’t work, because the "Dame" was apparently a 15th century Ginkles – a mostly made up, derivative plagiarism, added to sell stuff (in this case, books, and while looking to the _Treatyse_ for contextual historic info is useful, it is what it is…).  What are we to do? Now, don’t misunderstand me

No danger of that…SPLORK VANG MU to the nTH power… between what I like and dislike when it comes to relieving fly tying material pressures upon the creatures of our realm.  For instance, there just isn’t enough Polar Bears to go around to supply the fur to tie enough Alaskan Mary Ann

Question:

I believe that extinction is good in some cases of animal life.  The "Muslim Fundamentalist Terrorist" comes to mind.  I think I will dream of "smoking holes" in Afghanistan tonight.

Bear in mind, David, that the Taliban’s conquered victims are trapped in Afghanistan and imprisoned by the civil war and terrorism in their own villages.  Take care not to paint all Arabs or Muslims with the same brush. Most of them are decent people and are undoubtedly horrified by what’s taken place today.  This evil act flies in the face of Islam’s tenets. My great fear right now is that Arab Americans will be victimized as Japanese Americans were during World War II. Sandy

Response:

. My great fear right now is that Arab Americans will be victimized as Japanese Americans were during World War II. Sandy

A legitimate concern but the analogy is wrong. No offense taken. john

Response:

My great fear right now is that Arab Americans will be victimized as Japanese Americans were during World War II. Sandy A legitimate concern but the analogy is wrong. No offense taken. john

In what way, John?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Exactly what the fuck are you saying? Dave Astounding pictures on the TV of the twin towers, to any of the fishing fraternity caught up or affected comiserations from this side of the pond .Terrible it looks like warfare. The best of luck to the fire fighters . John I have no right or mandate to speak on behalf of anyone else here in the U.K. but I am sure that many of us feel for our American cousins at this time.  Remember, we have felt the bombs, the killing and maiming many times in these islands. Even to those of you who have supported our terrorists – God bless you. Jeff

It would appear, David, that the words "…many of us feel for our American cousins at this time.", are an expression of sympathy.  "Remember, we have felt the bombs, the killing and maiming many times in these islands.", suggests a basis beyond a shared humanity for that sympathy.  "Even to those of you who have supported our terrorists – God bless you.", is, presumably, a reminder that Jeff (along with many others) feels his country is also a victim of terrorists (the Provisional IRA, I assume).  He is also reminding us that many in the U.S. support the activities of that group. The situation in northern ireland is complex enough that there is a great deal of controversy over whether the IRA should be viewed as terrorists or freedom fighters.  I won’t presume to pretend that I can offer a valuable opinion on this matter, but it occurs to me that under the circumstances even our resident idologue could take the stick out of his ass long enough to sit down and reflect. Wolfgang and god bless even you, i guess

Response:

Your comments are inflammatory, and in extremely poor taste…..

Personally, I find them to be neither.  Beyond that, I can’t disagree with anything else you say in your post, which I have snipped to conserve bandwidth. And thank you. Wolfgang

Response:

I believe that extinction is good in some cases of animal life.  The "Muslim Fundamentalist Terrorist" comes to mind.  I think I will dream of "smoking holes" in Afghanistan tonight. Big Chief

It’s too soon to jump to that conclusion. If it turns out, in the fullness of time, that Bin Laden is behind this, then (in the words of a State Dept. official) don’t plan your next vacation in Afghanistan. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

My thoughts are with the US today. Have strength through your grief and courage and honor in your justice. Clark

Response:

I believe that extinction is good in some cases of animal life.  The "Muslim Fundamentalist Terrorist" comes to mind.  I think I will dream of "smoking holes" in Afghanistan tonight. Big Chief – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Astounding pictures on the TV of the twin towers, to any of the fishing fraternity caught up or affected comiserations from this side of the pond .Terrible it looks like warfare. The best of luck to the fire fighters . John

Response:

I think of the lyrics of Bob Dylan. A hard rain’s a’gonna fall. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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Astounding pictures on the TV of the twin towers, to any of the fishing fraternity caught up or affected comiserations from this side of the pond .Terrible it looks like warfare. The best of luck to the fire fighters . John

Just spoke to the Pirate at Lakewood – the clave continues.  To do otherwise would be to let the bastards win.  We’re leaving tomorrow morning for Lakewood at 4 am. God bless America Peter

Response:

 I have no right or mandate to speak on behalf of anyone else here in the U.K. but I am sure that many of us feel for our American cousins at this time.  Remember, we have felt the bombs, the killing and maiming many times in these islands. Even to those of you who have supported our terrorists – God bless you. Jeff

Your comments are inflammatory, and in extremely poor taste. It is to be hoped that the animals responsible for this outrage against humanity will be rooted out and destroyed. The sooner the better.  This is purely a matter of self defence. They could strike anywhere. This must be done with care and precision, and as much effort as it takes to achieve.  Ill-considered reactions, are best avoided. Human beings who perpetrate such acts, have relinquished their right to be considered even human, or be treated as such.. A tragedy of this magnitude requires the solidarity of decent people with the victims, as indeed any tragedy does. It is a terrifying lesson to everybody what fanatics may achieve, and where hate and fanaticism leads. The loss of one single life to these animals is a matter of concern to every living person.  Cold blooded and calculated mass murder on this scale is a new dimension of terror. This is not simply a strike against America, but against civilisation. America requires our support, not condemnation, or snide remarks, at this time. MC

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Early reports of AAA and ground explosions in Afganistan. Dave

Response:

Exactly what the fuck are you saying?

I believe he refers to US (popular) support for the Provisional IRA. — Gary (Email address is munged with x’s)

Response:

Exactly what the fuck are you saying? Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Astounding pictures on the TV of the twin towers, to any of the fishing fraternity caught up or affected comiserations from this side of the pond .Terrible it looks like warfare. The best of luck to the fire fighters . John I have no right or mandate to speak on behalf of anyone else here in the U.K. but I am sure that many of us feel for our American cousins at this time.  Remember, we have felt the bombs, the killing and maiming many times in these islands. Even to those of you who have supported our terrorists – God bless you. Jeff

Response:

Astounding pictures on the TV of the twin towers, to any of the fishing fraternity caught up or affected comiserations from this side of the pond .Terrible it looks like warfare. The best of luck to the fire fighters . John

 I have no right or mandate to speak on behalf of anyone else here in the U.K. but I am sure that many of us feel for our American cousins at this time.  Remember, we have felt the bombs, the killing and maiming many times in these islands. Even to those of you who have supported our terrorists – God bless you. Jeff

Response:

Welcome to the 21st Century.  ;-(      - Ken

Driving to Logan this morning I cursed the heavy traffic. Took every back road I knew and in the end gave up and got on the Pike. I realized that after 2hrs for trying to make the 40 mile trip that I was not going to make my flight to NYC. I cursed the world, the overpopulation, lack of public transport, Fastlane, wasting gasoline and, oh, who knows what else. I rebooked myself on the 9.30am Delta shuttle to NYC , which was cancelled about 9:05am with an ominous announcement. I had 3 meetings in and around the WTC. How the minor gripes and annoyances distort our perspective. Superimposed, as it was for me, against what happened, that flight 11 passed overhead as I drove to the airport, that I drove and walked the same path of terrorists and victims alike, I am thankful to God, or Bog, or I Ching or luck to be alive. My prayers and thoughts to the undoubted thousands who are dead. — Gary (Email address is munged with x’s)

Response:

Thank you Sandy.  Any support is appreciated.  Give us Americans time.  We will deal with it. All’s Fair With Fur or Feather gg

Response:

Astounding pictures on the TV of the twin towers, to any of the fishing fraternity caught up or affected comiserations from this side of the pond .Terrible it looks like warfare. The best of luck to the fire fighters . John

Astonishing news. Do the lunatic extremists who did this really expect sympathy? I add my best wishes to the USA, a great country which will surely bounce back. Chris

Response:

Astounding pictures on the TV of the twin towers, to any of the fishing fraternity caught up or affected comiserations from this side of the pond ..Terrible it looks like warfare. The best of luck to the fire fighters . John

I second that  and I hope I never see anything like it again. My family and I send our heartfelt sympathies to everybody who has lost friends or relations. My usual sig. just doesn’t seem appropriate for this post. Sandy (in Scotland)

Response:

Astounding pictures on the TV of the twin towers, to any of the fishing fraternity caught up or affected comiserations from this side of the pond .Terrible it looks like warfare.   It is.

Welcome to the 21st Century.  ;-(      - Ken — "Mere human beings can’t afford to be fanatical about anything. Not even  about justice or loyalty. The fanatic for justice ends by murdering a  million helpless people to clear a space for his law-courts. If we are to  survive on this planet, there must be compromises."         – Storm Jameson

Response:

I say that we take out any group stupid enough to take credit for it…. Dustin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Astounding pictures on the TV of the twin towers, to any of the fishing fraternity caught up or affected comiserations from this side of the pond .Terrible it looks like warfare. The best of luck to the fire fighters . John No one anywhere in the world escapes the horrible effects of terrorism. This is especially sickening — I’m watching the news right now. This, clearly, is an act of war, as the Pentagon has been hit, and many more will become involved before it’s over. Thanks for your thoughtful post, John. I’ll add my prayers for the victims, their friends and families, and emergency workers. Sandy

Response:

Astounding pictures on the TV of the twin towers, to any of the fishing fraternity caught up or affected comiserations from this side of the pond .Terrible it looks like warfare. The best of luck to the fire fighters . John

Response:

Astounding pictures on the TV of the twin towers, to any of the fishing fraternity caught up or affected comiserations from this side of the pond .Terrible it looks like warfare.

  It is. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The best of luck to the fire fighters . John

Response:

yea….amazing what some folks will do to bring attention to their "causes".. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Astounding pictures on the TV of the twin towers, to any of the fishing fraternity caught up or affected comiserations from this side of the pond .Terrible it looks like warfare. The best of luck to the fire fighters . John

Response:

Astounding pictures on the TV of the twin towers, to any of the fishing fraternity caught up or affected comiserations from this side of the pond .Terrible it looks like warfare. The best of luck to the fire fighters . John

No one anywhere in the world escapes the horrible effects of terrorism. This is especially sickening — I’m watching the news right now. This, clearly, is an act of war, as the Pentagon has been hit, and many more will become involved before it’s over. Thanks for your thoughtful post, John. I’ll add my prayers for the victims, their friends and families, and emergency workers. Sandy

Response:

Question:

 Thanks for the great post! -Muskie

Response:

Thanks Sid, I could use a little fishing too. This was almost as good. Herman

<great report snipped —         Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Work sucks. I mean, let’s face it — unless you’re…. 8<

Thanks Sid for making my first cup of coffee this morning taste so damn good! Tight lines, Walt

Response:

Thanks Sid. I needed that. Big Dale

Response:

Good way to start my day Sid…are you by any chance a "published" writer? Frank (I wuz published once, on a wanted poster) Church – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Work sucks. I mean, let’s face it — unless you’re…. 8< Thanks Sid for making my first cup of coffee this morning taste so damn good! Tight lines, Walt

Response:

I didn’t need that. I’ve got a pile of things to do today and I’m gonna be thinking about this trip all day and not get a damn thing done. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks Sid. I needed that. Big Dale

Response:

Absolutely excellent.  Hope it earns you more time on the river too ! TL MC — "Where fishing is concerned, most anglers are basically manic excessives" http://www.mikeconnor.de – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Work sucks. I mean, let’s face it — unless you’re Tiger Woods or actively employed by Van Halen, work pretty much just sucks. Oh, sure, I suppose you could be one of those namby-pamby "fulfilled" people you read about sometimes — you know, the ones who read that "Do What You Love, The Money Will Follow" book and are now out there carving handsome duck decoys that cleverly double as toilet paper dispensers, selling them out of their RVs at craft festivals up and down the coast. Sadly, those people never saw the subtitle for that book: "Do What You Love, The Money Will Follow That Guy In The Suit On The Way To His Job At Salomon Brothers, Leaving You Penniless And Hungry And With No Toilet Paper To Put On Your Handsome Duck Decoys.. .Dumbass." Hmm. What, if any, was my point? Merely this, I suppose — today, I went fishing. Not just any fishing, either. This was the kind of fishing born of resolute necessity. The kind of fishing that nourishes the soul, makes full the heart, and kindles the spirit. The kind of fishing that sings John Denver songs with nary the faintest trace of irony. The kind of fishing you do when the only thing that’s gonna make things right is the sound of moving water, the crispness of a winter’s afternon, and the absolute certitude that your 4x leader spool is gonna be in your vest’s right front pocket ’cause that’s by god where you keep it. Do you ever set aside trips to the river for experiments? Say to yourself things like, "Today, I will only fish soft hackles downstream regardless of the outcome," or, "Today, I will restrict myself to dries larger than a #8," just to see what happens? I do half-assed versions of this all the time, usually caving in when I see that it would be only too easy to catch fish with techniques I’ve foresworn for the day. I usually rationalize the whole thing by saying things like, well, shit, you still haven’t read the complete novels of Tolstoy…how the hell are you supposed to stop using a strike indicator? This particular tactic works surprisingly well and will undoubtedly always be there as my go-to rationalization. Russians write some big-ass books. Still, my resolve seemed to be steady today. Halfway to the river, Townes Van Zandt on the stereo, and I’m still sticking to my original intention of fishing traditional steelhead tactics on the Yuba. Hmm. Maybe I should backtrack. See, I’m a transplanted Washingtonian, recently relocated to the foothills of the Sierra Nevada. Nevada City, to be exact. California. A place where traditional steelhead tactics are pretty much reserved to coastal streams (the Smith, the Klamath, the Mad, Mattole, Gualala, and so on).  Here in the foothills, whatever steelhead are lucky enough to swim their way through San Francisco Bay, up the Sac, taking a left at the Feather, and then a right at the Yuba (with a fish ladder on the way), are usually treated to a barrage of trout tactics — smallish nymphs, floated drag-free under an indicator. I miss the traditional steelhead tactics of my native Northwest. I miss booming out big casts, quartered downstream with sink-tips or shooting heads, and swinging chunky marabou flies through holding water. I miss the ruminative reverie of cast, swing, step…cast, swing, step. I believe it was either Nigel Tufnel from Spinal Tap or Tom McGuane who said something along the lines of "All that is required of flyfishing for steelhead is a room temperature IQ and a capacity for repetition." This is missing the point — the beauty is in the repetition. It’s mantra, koan, and enigmas wrapped in riddles all in one…pure therapy. So, today’s escape from the workplace was to be performed as an experiment. I fish the Yuba fairly regularly — living in Nevada City, it’s my home waters — and have always marveled at some of the absolutely classic steelhead runs it features. You take away the mining tailings, and the runs are straight out of a Trey Combs book. So, today was to be the day I put aside the #18 flashback pheasant tail nymphs and picked up a #6 Skykomish Sunrise and put it on the business end of a 25 foot sinktip. At least that’s what it was supposed to be. When I finally arrived at the Yuba, blissfully free from work for a hard-earned two hours, there were only two cars parked at the usual pullout. Much to my chagrin, each of these fellows had decided to fish the very run I had my sights on — the most cherry run in the area for traditional steelhead tactics, and a run that is rarely fished at all on the Yuba. Quoting lines from "War and Peace" in my head, I decided to leave my floating line on and head up to the usual trout holes instead, nymph box in hand. A couple trout and a Dostoevsky later, the sun was nearly gone and I was ready to head home. Walking past the now-empty run I’d meant to fish earlier, I couldn’t help but think to myself things like, "Carver is way better than Chekhov, "Somebody oughta bitchslap that punk Raskolnikov," and, most importantly, "Well, shit, it ain’t that dark." Off with the small stuff and on with the large. Time was too short to switch spools, so I left my floating line on and just hitched on a fat Comet, instead. I’ve always liked Comets — they used to be very popular in the Northwest for steelhead flyfishing but have fallen out of favor. Too bad — they get down like Rick James on a two-day crack binge. The first two casts produced nothing but the sweet feeling of anachronism — reward enough in of itself — but the third produced a solid, undeniable take. Reverie over. Ten minutes of cathected concentration later, it was over — the steelhead back in the water, and me blissfully free of mind for a lovely moment, thoughtless, weightless, and just ever so slightly slipped of these earthly bonds. Steelhead will do that to you. more time on the river to all of you, – sid —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Thanks Sid, Especially in the Winter, a good report is a great release. Willi

Response:

<snip Awesome prose Sid! Wolfgang breathless

Response:

Work sucks. I mean, let’s face it — unless you’re Tiger Woods or actively employed by Van Halen, work pretty much just sucks.

Great story Sid; thanks. Joe F.

Response:

Work sucks. I mean, let’s face it — unless you’re Tiger Woods or actively employed by Van Halen, work pretty much just sucks. Oh, sure, I suppose you could be one of those namby-pamby "fulfilled" people you read about sometimes — you know, the ones who read that "Do What You Love, The Money Will Follow" book and are now out there carving handsome duck decoys that cleverly double as toilet paper dispensers, selling them out of their RVs at craft festivals up and down the coast. Sadly, those people never saw the subtitle for that book: "Do What You Love, The Money Will Follow That Guy In The Suit On The Way To His Job At Salomon Brothers, Leaving You Penniless And Hungry And With No Toilet Paper To Put On Your Handsome Duck Decoys.. .Dumbass." Hmm. What, if any, was my point? Merely this, I suppose — today, I went fishing. Not just any fishing, either. This was the kind of fishing born of resolute necessity. The kind of fishing that nourishes the soul, makes full the heart, and kindles the spirit. The kind of fishing that sings John Denver songs with nary the faintest trace of irony. The kind of fishing you do when the only thing that’s gonna make things right is the sound of moving water, the crispness of a winter’s afternon, and the absolute certitude that your 4x leader spool is gonna be in your vest’s right front pocket ’cause that’s by god where you keep it. Do you ever set aside trips to the river for experiments? Say to yourself things like, "Today, I will only fish soft hackles downstream regardless of the outcome," or, "Today, I will restrict myself to dries larger than a #8," just to see what happens? I do half-assed versions of this all the time, usually caving in when I see that it would be only too easy to catch fish with techniques I’ve foresworn for the day. I usually rationalize the whole thing by saying things like, well, shit, you still haven’t read the complete novels of Tolstoy…how the hell are you supposed to stop using a strike indicator? This particular tactic works surprisingly well and will undoubtedly always be there as my go-to rationalization. Russians write some big-ass books. Still, my resolve seemed to be steady today. Halfway to the river, Townes Van Zandt on the stereo, and I’m still sticking to my original intention of fishing traditional steelhead tactics on the Yuba. Hmm. Maybe I should backtrack. See, I’m a transplanted Washingtonian, recently relocated to the foothills of the Sierra Nevada. Nevada City, to be exact. California. A place where traditional steelhead tactics are pretty much reserved to coastal streams (the Smith, the Klamath, the Mad, Mattole, Gualala, and so on).  Here in the foothills, whatever steelhead are lucky enough to swim their way through San Francisco Bay, up the Sac, taking a left at the Feather, and then a right at the Yuba (with a fish ladder on the way), are usually treated to a barrage of trout tactics — smallish nymphs, floated drag-free under an indicator. I miss the traditional steelhead tactics of my native Northwest. I miss booming out big casts, quartered downstream with sink-tips or shooting heads, and swinging chunky marabou flies through holding water. I miss the ruminative reverie of cast, swing, step…cast, swing, step. I believe it was either Nigel Tufnel from Spinal Tap or Tom McGuane who said something along the lines of "All that is required of flyfishing for steelhead is a room temperature IQ and a capacity for repetition." This is missing the point — the beauty is in the repetition. It’s mantra, koan, and enigmas wrapped in riddles all in one…pure therapy. So, today’s escape from the workplace was to be performed as an experiment. I fish the Yuba fairly regularly — living in Nevada City, it’s my home waters — and have always marveled at some of the absolutely classic steelhead runs it features. You take away the mining tailings, and the runs are straight out of a Trey Combs book. So, today was to be the day I put aside the #18 flashback pheasant tail nymphs and picked up a #6 Skykomish Sunrise and put it on the business end of a 25 foot sinktip. At least that’s what it was supposed to be. When I finally arrived at the Yuba, blissfully free from work for a hard-earned two hours, there were only two cars parked at the usual pullout. Much to my chagrin, each of these fellows had decided to fish the very run I had my sights on — the most cherry run in the area for traditional steelhead tactics, and a run that is rarely fished at all on the Yuba. Quoting lines from "War and Peace" in my head, I decided to leave my floating line on and head up to the usual trout holes instead, nymph box in hand. A couple trout and a Dostoevsky later, the sun was nearly gone and I was ready to head home. Walking past the now-empty run I’d meant to fish earlier, I couldn’t help but think to myself things like, "Carver is way better than Chekhov, "Somebody oughta bitchslap that punk Raskolnikov," and, most importantly, "Well, shit, it ain’t that dark." Off with the small stuff and on with the large. Time was too short to switch spools, so I left my floating line on and just hitched on a fat Comet, instead. I’ve always liked Comets — they used to be very popular in the Northwest for steelhead flyfishing but have fallen out of favor. Too bad — they get down like Rick James on a two-day crack binge. The first two casts produced nothing but the sweet feeling of anachronism — reward enough in of itself — but the third produced a solid, undeniable take. Reverie over. Ten minutes of cathected concentration later, it was over — the steelhead back in the water, and me blissfully free of mind for a lovely moment, thoughtless, weightless, and just ever so slightly slipped of these earthly bonds. Steelhead will do that to you. more time on the river to all of you, – sid —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Question:

All apologies if the answer is in an FAQ…I couldn’t find on for this NG. I’ll be on the Rogue river in OR this month, and would like to try fly fishing.  I’m a fairly learned baitcasting guy. Problem is, I’ve no equipment.  I’d like to buy a starter combo, and am looking at a Cortland (http://www.cbsmall.com/cgi-bin/webc.exe/discountfishinginc/st_prod.ht… rodid=130&p_catid=16&sid=4Wi2mP01630e2xz-27100614880.92) for $150 and this Cahill (http://thestore.alloutdoors.com/productfamily.asp?dept=1&category=103… cat=10325&pf=40193&sid=&shopperid=F2R1KL5P97S92LPH00A3HLDGRM5A3TBD) for $65. Any suggestions about brands, what to look for, how much is reasonable to spend would be appreciated.  I’m going to the local Galyan’s tomorrow.  I’d like to think I could try the hobby for $150…is that reasonable? Thanks! Scott

Response:

Yes it is entirely reasonable Scott. St Croix has the Legend series of fly rods for around $100, I own 3 of them and entirely satisfied with them all. There are several of us on this NG who have "discovered" Cabela’s 3 Forks and Stowaway series flyrods. I can tell you that I have extensively tested all my 3 Forks and Stowaways and they are well worth the money. Probably the best dollar for dollar buy on fly rods anywhere. Since you are new at this flyrodding business, a slower action rod would be the best choice for you, and the Cabela’s rods are slow action rods.  You will be fishing for trout on the Rogue (presumably) I would recommend a 5 wt 9 footer.  St Croix carries this in One other piece of advice, you can get a good reel these days for around $40 and up, and that’s really all you need, but get a decent quality line.  Hope this helps. Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RETIRED – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All apologies if the answer is in an FAQ…I couldn’t find on for this NG. I’ll be on the Rogue river in OR this month, and would like to try fly fishing.  I’m a fairly learned baitcasting guy. Problem is, I’ve no equipment.  I’d like to buy a starter combo, and am looking at a Cortland (http://www.cbsmall.com/cgi-bin/webc.exe/discountfishinginc/st_prod.ht… p rodid=130&p_catid=16&sid=4Wi2mP01630e2xz-27100614880.92) for $150 and this Cahill (http://thestore.alloutdoors.com/productfamily.asp?dept=1&category=103… b cat=10325&pf=40193&sid=&shopperid=F2R1KL5P97S92LPH00A3HLDGRM5A3TBD) for $65. Any suggestions about brands, what to look for, how much is reasonable to spend would be appreciated.  I’m going to the local Galyan’s tomorrow.  I’d like to think I could try the hobby for $150…is that reasonable? Thanks! Scott

Response:

Welcome to flyfishing Scott.  If you want a very economical starter set, I would suggest a Pflueger Purist 5 or 6 wt 8 1/2′ rod from Kmart or GI Joe’s for about $45 and a Pflueger Medalist reel (about $30?) or an Okuma Sierra (for $39 from www.Ezyflyfish.com), and a Cortland Fair Play fly line to match the rod.  All for well under a $100.  The rods are surprisingly good performers compared to anything I’ve tried for under $100.  I agree with the idea of renting or borrowing some equipment first, if possible, and also taking some flycasting lessons. Good Luck flyfishing, Pat K * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

John, I got the beer, but where’s my steak? — Opie  –Planning for the Past–

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …this is by far the best……spend three c-notes on a half a day’s fishing with a lot of instruction and a person in your frame of mind will save a lot of money in the long run…..buy the guide a beer and a sandwich or steak afterwards and keep you ears open!……john Problem is, I’ve no equipment.  I’d like to buy a starter combo, You know, there is another possibility here.  A lot of fly shops out here have rental equipment.  I would check around and find a fly shop that offers some rentals and go in there.  Chances are that you can rent equipment and perhaps get some free casting lessons while you try out rods.  That would free up some money for flies, tippet, ect while keeping the costs down to a minimum in case you don’t like fly fishing. Warren X#-[ Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

Response:

I’ve been watching this thread pretty close and it has come to my attention that more well thought out posts are now being offered. There are a great many more posts that recommend low cost great for beginners starter kits like the Cabelas line and a lot less of the "what do you want to fish for and where" along with the "get what fits you" and "The better you learn with, the better you’ll be (meaning spend a bundle on a fast long rod.) The last of which is pure BS. A beginner needs a rod that will let him feel loading and allow him time to react, is forgiving of off timing and minor foepas. Is not expensive to buy leaving enough for vet flys etc. is short enough not to tangle in tree limbs. Last but not least is a combination that is still of use even after the graduation up to the faster longer rods as expertise grows. The best advice is to amass all the mail order catalogs you can get. Study them, Then purchase a starter combo that is slow, short , and pleases your eye. By the way the reel is important unless you are fishing for shinners. John Popp

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Problem is, I’ve no equipment.  I’d like to buy a starter combo, You know, there is another possibility here.  A lot of fly shops out here have rental equipment.  I would check around and find a fly shop that offers some rentals and go in there.  Chances are that you can rent equipment and perhaps get some free casting lessons while you try out rods.  That would free up some money for flies, tippet, ect while keeping the costs down to a minimum in case you don’t like fly fishing. Warren X#-[ Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

Response:

The FAQ page can be found on the new ROFF page.  The link is bellow.  A lot of other good ROFF information is also on the page.  Enjoy.  :-) BTW, I like the Cabela’s rods for the buck.  Check out http://www.cabelas.com/texis/scripts/store/+/CatalogDisplay/displayPOD/C abFALL1998/CabFALL1998AVATAA/IA495C They are in your price range and would be a good starting point. However you should know that after you’re hooked, you might want something that cost a little bit more and that fits your particular fishing style. — Vern The new ROFF page: http://home.earthlink.net/~flyfishing4fun "Wilderness needs no defense, only more defenders"                             quote by Edward Abbey All apologies if the answer is in an FAQ…I couldn’t find on for this NG. (snip) Problem is, I’ve no equipment.  I’d like to buy a starter combo, and am looking at a Cortland for $150 and this Cahill (snip)… I’d like to think I could try the hobby for $150…is that reasonable?

YES Thanks! Scott

Before you buy.

Response:

…this is by far the best……spend three c-notes on a half a day’s fishing with a lot of instruction and a person in your frame of mind will save a lot of money in the long run…..buy the guide a beer and a sandwich or steak afterwards and keep you ears open!……john

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Problem is, I’ve no equipment.  I’d like to buy a starter combo, You know, there is another possibility here.  A lot of fly shops out here have rental equipment.  I would check around and find a fly shop that offers some rentals and go in there.  Chances are that you can rent equipment and perhaps get some free casting lessons while you try out rods.  That would free up some money for flies, tippet, ect while keeping the costs down to a minimum in case you don’t like fly fishing. Warren X#-[ Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

Response:

All apologies if the answer is in an FAQ…I couldn’t find on for this NG.

There is a FAQ somewhere, but the best advice on ROFF is "DUCK!" and "Be afraid, be very afraid…"  <G.  Seriously, a FAQ on this would be kinda useless, as there are many opinions.  You know what they say about opinions and assholes?   Well, ROFF is ground zero…<G. I’ll be on the Rogue river in OR this month, and would like to try fly fishing.  I’m a fairly learned baitcasting guy.

Oregon?  There are some here that will be a great help, I’m sure. Problem is, I’ve no equipment.  I’d like to buy a starter combo, and am looking at a Cortland (http://www.cbsmall.com/cgi-bin/webc.exe/discountfishinginc/st_prod.ht… rodid=130&p_catid=16&sid=4Wi2mP01630e2xz-27100614880.92) for $150 and this Cahill (http://thestore.alloutdoors.com/productfamily.asp?dept=1&category=103… cat=10325&pf=40193&sid=&shopperid=F2R1KL5P97S92LPH00A3HLDGRM5A3TBD) for $65.

JMO, but I wouldn’t buy your first rod via mail order.  Trying to buy a rod/reel this way is like saying "I like blue.  Please send blue pants." You really need to actually feel, handle, and optimally, cast the rod, especially as a novice. Any suggestions about brands, what to look for, how much is reasonable to spend would be appreciated.  I’m going to the local Galyan’s tomorrow.  I’d like to think I could try the hobby for $150…is that reasonable?

Well, again, JMO, but you did ask:  Is that reasonable?  Yes.  Possible? Yes.  Likely?  Depends.  Confused?  Sorry.  Seriously, it is related to the advice above in that you need to find a rod you like, and you might like a 20.00 rod or you might like a 2000.00 rod.   If your situation is such that money is no object, then buy what you like, period, be it 20.00 or 2000.00.  IMO, any synthetic rod over about 200.00 is priced for reasons other than "cost," i.e. seat and handle hardware, finish, guides, name, handwork, warranty, etc., and is a "value to buyer" situation.  This is OK, just understand what your money is buying. If you need/want to stay on a budget (or just have a frugal streak), go get a cheapo rod and reel (if you buy a "Starter Set," you will likely need another line) at WalMart/KMart or get something used, like at a pawn shop, in the appropriate size.  Why?  Simple: you likely don’t know what you like, and having no experience to go on, won’t know cheap from expensive, or even if you like the sport, so why risk any more than needed to check it out?  I’ll say JMO, but I’d doubt any could prove me wrong: A 20.00 flyrod can have, and usually does have, more in common with a 1000.00 rod than a novice would think, same for a 15.00 versus a 600.00 reel (learning, practice, freshwater, and, generally, fish under 15ish pounds), but a 15.00 line is not likely even close to 40.00 line. A 1500.00 rig will not be easier or faster to learn on, nor will it necessarily be "better" for a particular person.  Buy a good DT (Double Taper) line for practice because when you wear one end out _practicing_(hint, hint), you can reverse it and have a "new line."  A WF (Weight Forward) would seem a waste here, but YMMV. Also, JMO: you can teach yourself, but lessons from a pro or experienced flyrodder can be invaluable and will likely speed things up.  This is where some "budgeting" might come in: If a shop you like and feel you trust offers free classes for new customers, but charges for non-customers, that might figure into the above "cheapo" advice, and would likely be worth figuring in. HTH? TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Scott

Response:

Problem is, I’ve no equipment.  I’d like to buy a starter combo,

You know, there is another possibility here.  A lot of fly shops out here have rental equipment.  I would check around and find a fly shop that offers some rentals and go in there.  Chances are that you can rent equipment and perhaps get some free casting lessons while you try out rods.  That would free up some money for flies, tippet, ect while keeping the costs down to a minimum in case you don’t like fly fishing. Warren X#-[

Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

Response:

Question:

I would also ask you and the others that would read this thread (because I know that the hard core guys will read it)  what is the one casting hint to give a flyfisherman. (I.E. in golf "Keep your damn head down")

"Aim for the water"

Response:

Water Who said anything about water damnit!!!!  You guys never sid anything about that.  Does this mean i have to start all over again.  Water!!!!!! That stuff is wet and can be cold!

Response:

Mike, You da man

My pleasure sir, glad you enjoyed it. The single most effective tip I could give anybody that would actually be of any use, is  "Do not break your wrist".  This is probably the single most widespread cause of casting faults generally. However, as you so politely requested, and praise, even when wildly exaggerated, ( you could have left Homer out ! ), inspires me to almost superhuman efforts, here goes: When learning how to cast a fly, you will soon cast with grace and pride, if you keep your wrist stiff, and your elbow tucked tight to your side, the muscles in your shoulder should do all the necessary work, keep your movements smooth and gentle, don’t overpower or jerk. Don’t wave your arm about, just move your forearm normally straight up and down, to start your cast, your line keep tight, and your rod level with the ground your casting hand should never go above your  shoulder height Your back cast should be straight behind, a small loop high and tight. The forward cast is just the same, a smooth and gentle easy throw, and the rod tip should not deviate from its path, and the line not drop below, the arc the tip describes, until at last you flick and  gently follow through practise this quite simple cast at first, until it

Question:

I’ve driven all over the country and seen some mighty fine independent outdoor shops. Long-time owner-operated, hardwood floors, hand-picked stock, great stuff, great stories, multi-generation shops. Let’s wake up folks. These shops are going the way of the dodo. The chains and BAD shops are taking over. Maybe one way we can STOP this sad trend is to make a list of our favorite shops nationwide. Then stop by when we’re in the area. Maybe go on drives to see these treasures! One selfish reason of mine to do this is that I haven’t taken a big road trip lately and I’d like to go revisit some of those great ole shops. OK, I forgot where some of them were. Of course, you know that outdoor sport shops aren’t the only disappearing dodos in civilized retail. Quality independent restaurants, hardware stores and bookshops are in the same boat. Maybe there’s a way we can rescue them all at once? Putting the word out about where there are can’t be a bad way to start. — Jeff Potter   !.com   delete ‘DELETETHIS!’ to reply ***"Out Your Backdoor": Friendly Magazine of DIY Adventure and Culture        http://www.glpbooks.com/oyb … with a full line of books, bookstore & forum

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The chains and BAD shops are taking over. Maybe one way we can STOP this sad trend is to make a list of our favorite shops nationwide. Then stop by when we’re in the area.

My experience so far is that the typical chain store doesn’t carry the best outdoor gear… i.e. they will have Timberland boots but not Vasque or Asolo… But in Birmingham Alabama I would recommend Alabama Outdoor and Roger’s Trading Co.  I have to say, though, that one of my favorite things to do in Atlanta is visit REI, and I think they are a great place to get gear. cordwood

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In the Dallas Texas Area, look to: Backwoods  (corner of Coit and Campbell roads, Richardson) <–also carry flyfishing gear, woohoo! Mountain Hideout Lover’s Lane, just a block West of the Dallas North tollway We have an REI in town, but I like these stores better, they go out of their way for you, whether you are asking for an expensive tent, a pair of $18 socks, or even $2 zipper pulls. In Dayton, Ohio, go to General Surplus, don’t have the address. — Matt Blickensderfer * A Grouchy German is a Sour Kraut! *

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’ve driven all over the country and seen some mighty fine independent outdoor shops. Long-time owner-operated, hardwood floors, hand-picked stock, great stuff, great stories, multi-generation shops. Let’s wake up folks. These shops are going the way of the dodo. The chains and BAD shops are taking over. Maybe one way we can STOP this sad trend is to make a list of our favorite shops nationwide. Then stop by when we’re in the area. Maybe go on drives to see these treasures! One selfish reason of mine to do this is that I haven’t taken a big road trip lately and I’d like to go revisit some of those great ole shops. OK, I forgot where some of them were. Of course, you know that outdoor sport shops aren’t the only disappearing dodos in civilized retail. Quality independent restaurants, hardware stores and bookshops are in the same boat. Maybe there’s a way we can rescue them all at once? Putting the word out about where there are can’t be a bad way to start. — Jeff Potter   !.com   delete ‘DELETETHIS!’ to reply ***"Out Your Backdoor": Friendly Magazine of DIY Adventure and Culture       http://www.glpbooks.com/oyb … with a full line of books, bookstore

& forum

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Question:

On casting in the surf.. A long rod helps (I use a 9 1/2 foot 7 weight, a 10 footer would be better) and a stripping basket is a necessity.  I also tend towards pretty stout weighted eyes on streamers an lead-head charlies (Texas coast selection here) to keep the surf from knocking them around too much.  Be sure you hang around cuts through the bars even if you’re in the wash.. Good luck, Andy Schreckenghost

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Anybody fly fish from the beach?  

There are two magazines, "Fly Fishing in Saltwater" and "Saltwater Fly Fishing", both have had articles on flyfishing from the beach.  There have also been articles detailing fly fishing from the California coast.  Fly Fishing in Saltwater also has a web site at: www.flyfishinsalt.com. While the site does not give all the information I would like about saltwater flyfishing, it is a good start.  Another web site is www.reel-time.com.  This is the Reel-Time, The Journal of Saltwater Fly fishing.  This is a pretty good site.  They have some good articles and an archive of articles that may just answer your fishing from the beach questions

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[ Article crossposted from rec.outdoors.fishing ] [ Author was David Neils ]  Last July, my wife and I spent a fabulous week at a wilderness  outpost cabin in the heart of British Columbia.  Our hosts were  Rhonda and Duncan Stewart of Stewart’s Lodge and Camps.  This is  a fantastic lodge with access to over 20 lakes and streams from  the main lodge on Nimpo Lake.  They also have several wilderness  outpost locations.  We chose the wilderness outpost location for  our honeymoon.  Everything was perfect.  The rainbows averaged  1-3 pounds and were anxious to devour several well-known flies.  We had the entire lake to ourselves for 4 days.  There were no  trails or roads into this place.  The Stewart’s have erected a  wonderful cabin that is more than comfortable.  We enjoyed  hiking, canoeing, backpacking, and lots of fishing.  I’d like to  go back and catch the huge rainbows in the river locations.  Stewart’s lodge is located near Tweedsmuir Provincial Park.  This  is a beautiful park with plenty of great hiking opportunities.  It reminded me of Glacier Park with one exception…no people.  You virtually have most areas to yourself.  Stewart’s Lodge and Camps is a great place for fisherman and  non-fisherman alike.  I know that we will go back soon.  I’ll be  happy to answer any questions about our experience.  You can also  find out more information at their WWW site:  http://www.on-the-fly.com  Sincerely,    David Neils            3919 Benthaven Drive  Fort Collins, Colorado 80526 — Software Usability Engineer – HP SESD HP E-Mail Mentor Program – Administrator – http://mentor.external.hp.com 3404 East Harmony Rd., Fort Collins, CO 80525 voice: 970-229-4742 fax: 970-229-7734

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:  Last July, my wife and I spent a fabulous week at a wilderness :  outpost cabin in the heart of British Columbia.  Our hosts were :  Rhonda and Duncan Stewart of Stewart’s Lodge and Camps.  This is …stuff deleted You can also call Rhonda or Duncan for a full color brochure/newsletter. This is great reading. Call 1-800-ON-THE-FLY Tell them I sent you.       — Software Usability Engineer – HP SESD HP E-Mail Mentor Program – Administrator – http://mentor.external.hp.com 3404 East Harmony Rd., Fort Collins, CO 80525 voice: 970-229-4742 fax: 970-229-7734

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Question:

check out the fly fishing page at this site.  The fly fishing info changes on a monthly basis. http://www.accelerated.com  ::::::::::::::::::::<<< INTERNETWORKING THE DESKTOP ::::::::::::::::::::  John Loschky  SPRY, Inc.                          Phone: (206) 442-8225  316 Occidental Avenue South         FAX:   (206) 447-9008      Seattle, WA  98104                  http://www.spry.com  :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

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check out the fly fishing page at this site.  The fly fishing info changes on a monthly basis. http://www.accelerated.com

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