Question:

This last weekend I was out fishing (float tubing) on a high altitude lake with a chilly wind (about 30mph and 38oF). The lake was white capping with 1-3 waves.  The water temp was 38o-40oF and I was out for 3 and half hours straight.  Came in when it got dark. I got quite a work out but it was kind of fun. Got some strikes and hook ups in the process. I was a bit exhausted and cold when I came in but all-in-all in pretty good shape.  I was dressed for the weather even though the wind and the cold water started to creep in after awhile.  I was with friends so they knew where I was at. More and more I find myself going fishing when it’s snowing, raining, or wind blowing hard.  I don’t mess with lightning.  The occasional nice day is usually when the fishing is slow.  Some people say I’m nuts.  I’ve read stories where that kind of fishing kind of normal for fly fishers.  I don’t (in my mind) take unnecessary risks. Is this about the norm for you guys?  What kind of float tube or fishing accidents have you experienced?  What were the conditions? Eric

Response:

be sure to know the symptoms of hypothermia Not a fishing story, but, I was duck hunting on the Chesapeake Bay and "felt fine"  I "wasn’t even cold anymore" the two guys that found me say  I was randomly moving decoys and my walking was very wobbly, my speech badly slurred, yet I still "argued" that I was just fine they forced me into a hut and got me warmed They told me a little about the dangers and after I read up, I realized they had saved my life …. I was probably minutes from collapse I’m nearly 40 years older now and don’t find the cold as much fun,  but I’m very aware of shivers, numbness and such. go out, damn right, but be careful and keep a clear margin of safety….. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

another one<g … this time the San Francisco Bay we went out of Alviso and got caught in a very powerful storm when we got back to the dock, I could NOT work the keys to open my car Thank god a guy drove up "checking on his boat in the Marina" and helped me get the car open and started and pull my buddy out of the boat ( he could get out under own power ) we left boat, motor, decoys, guns and all and went to Fremont for coffee and food it was all there when we got back, but we were VERY aware that we had been one small problem from losing everything … a stalled outboard would have killed us —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

was supposed to be get the car open and started and pull my buddy out of the boat ( he couldn’t get out under own power )

the waves and wind had filled his waders, he was too cold to get them off, alone  I had taken mine off when they were about half full, and a sinking boat seemed very likely.  I remember telling him why I was taking mine off and saying  "if this boat goes down, you won’t want them on"

Response:

Eric: Lately it seems like the "nastier" the conditions, the more I enjoy it. First of all, it does cut down on the crowds. Second, if you are prepared for it with the right gear (and the gear keeps getting better all the time), even "nasty" conditions aren’t too bad, within reason. I guess the key is that "within reason" thing.  And I have indeed caught my biggest fish in what I used to consider nasty conditions. Finally, biting insects are not a problem! A guide once told me "There is no such thing as "bad conditions", there is just "bad gear". Preparation and common sense are paramount. Jim Ray

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This last weekend I was out fishing (float tubing) on a high altitude lake with a chilly wind (about 30mph and 38oF). The lake was white capping with 1-3 waves.  The water temp was 38o-40oF and I was out for 3 and half hours straight.  Came in when it got dark. I got quite a work out but it was kind of fun. Got some strikes and hook ups in the process. I was a bit exhausted and cold when I came in but all-in-all in pretty good shape.  I was dressed for the weather even though the wind and the cold water started to creep in after awhile.  I was with friends so they knew where I was at. More and more I find myself going fishing when it’s snowing, raining, or wind blowing hard.  I don’t mess with lightning.  The occasional nice day is usually when the fishing is slow.  Some people say I’m nuts.  I’ve read stories where that kind of fishing kind of normal for fly fishers.  I don’t (in my mind) take unnecessary risks. Is this about the norm for you guys?  What kind of float tube or fishing accidents have you experienced?  What were the conditions? Eric

Response:

I leave out words too so I knew what you meant. I might have had a mild case of hypothermia.  I was a little dizzy and disoriented when I got out of the water but I thought was from bobbing around like cork for three hours.  Also, the wind was down about 10mph and the temp about 35o. It gets cold at sunset in the mountains.  Even though I have neoprene waders the wind on those wet waders made it feel bitter cold. The two things that crossed my mind that would have been a major bummer.  1) The main bladder of my float tube fail and 2) get broadside into the wind in a big wave and get flipped. For number 2, I kept my tube about 45 degrees into the wind so I wouldn’t capsize.  The other thing I found was that I could actually fin into the wind and go somewhere that way.  The wind was too strong to try kick straight into it.  I kind of zig-zagged like a sailboat does.  I had to go back across a cove against the wind to get out of the water.   was supposed to be   get the car open and started and pull my buddy out of the boat ( he couldn’t   get out under own power )     the waves and wind had filled his waders, he was too cold to get them off, alone    I had taken mine off when they were about half full, and a sinking boat seemed very likely.  I remember telling him why I was taking mine off and saying  "if this boat goes down, you won’t want them on"

Response:

I wear an CO2 inflatable vest or carry a regular life vest from my big boat, depending on conditions.   And, I don’t feel a bit "wimpy" doing so. Another "not fishing" story.   I train retrievers for field trials, and such.   One summer day a client was working his dog and I wanted to plant a "blind retrieve" for the animal.   I figured I’d go out 30 feet from shore and prop the dummy on a branch of a submerged tree, then run the dog from the other side of the lake.   So wearing blue jeans and a summer shirt I swam out the 30 feet and started back …. tell you what I BARELY made it …. those jeans soaked up water and I could just, …just … stay above the surface enough to breath.   I remember thinking, "F–k, I’m going to drown within 15 feet of shore, in sight of a dozen people."    Next summer try to swim a pool wearing soaked cold weather gear, it will open you eyes, I bet.

Response:

Is this about the norm for you guys?  What kind of float tube or fishing accidents have you experienced?  What were the conditions?

Went through a microburst on Rock Creek once. It got REAL interesting when 2′ to 3′ diameter Doug Fir started dropping into the river. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

Ain’t no gear to protect ya from that Brian.                    Handyman Mike           Standing in a river waving a stick

Response:

More and more I find myself going fishing when it’s snowing, raining, or wind blowing hard.  I don’t mess with lightning.  The occasional nice day is usually when the fishing is slow.  Some people say I’m nuts.  I’ve read stories where that kind of fishing kind of normal for fly fishers.  I don’t (in my mind) take unnecessary risks.

The hardest conditions make the most enduring memories. Is this about the norm for you guys?  What kind of float tube or fishing accidents have you experienced?  What were the conditions?

Last year I packed my float tube to a high lake in mid October. There was about 6" of snow that obiterated the "trail" (to use the term loosely), so I just followed my dogs through and over and under the downed timber, hoping for the best. The fresh snow was magical. I thought it meant fair weather, but a front moved in. By the time I reached the lake it was well below freezing, and the lake, which I’d never seen before, looked like an off-color POS. I was so cold that I had to build a fire, which took a couple of hours. After fortifying myself around the fire with some coffee, whiskey, M&Ms, and maybe one or two other substances, I put on my waders, blew up the float tube, rigged my rod, put on my fins, and set out for the drop off below the rock face near the inlet. Maybe another hour. It was the hottest lake fishing I’ve ever had, but I could only stand to be in the water for 45 minutes. Ice shelves were accreting along the shore. Then I had a two-hour hike back to the "trail" head, into a stiff wind. Great trip.

Response:

Eric More and more I find myself going fishing when it’s snowing, Eric raining, or wind blowing hard. I like that too, as long as I’m fishing in a place where a warm cabin is waiting for me at the end of the day. Makes you feel like you’re *really* alive. But if I’m staying in a tent, forget it. Gearwise, one of the worst things you can have is a pair of too small boots. My previous boots were too small for winter fishing. On the last day of the Baltic clave, I was fishing really hard (had not caught any fish, damn Marcel had picked them all up under our noses). Anyway, I was standing in the 5C (41F) water in the Baltic sea for hours. When I decided to quit, I couldn’t feel my feet anymore. They really had an out of body -experience, no tactile sense left whatsoever. — Jarmo Hurri address or apply rot13 to header email address.

Response:

Went through a microburst on Rock Creek once.

It sounds like that’s a once in a lifetime type of experience.  I work for an electric utility and I’ve seen what microbursts can do to wood poles.  I can imagine what it would be like in the forest.

Response:

Went through a microburst on Rock Creek once. It sounds like that’s a once in a lifetime type of experience.  I work for an electric utility and I’ve seen what microbursts can do to wood poles. I can imagine what it would be like in the forest.

I pulled the photo and related newspaper article about this incident and put them on my website. There is a link to "Rock Creek Microburst". It will give an idea of what kind of damage it did. Be warned that my scans of the newspaper clippings are not great and seem to be rather large so the page may load slow. Anyone have any tips for scanning/posting these? — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

Went through a microburst on Rock Creek once. It sounds like that’s a once in a lifetime type of experience.  I work for an electric utility and I’ve seen what microbursts can do to wood poles. I can imagine what it would be like in the forest. I pulled the photo and related newspaper article about this incident and put them on my website. There is a link to "Rock Creek Microburst". It will give an idea of what kind of damage it did. Be warned that my scans of the newspaper clippings are not great and seem to be rather large so the page may load slow. Anyone have any tips for scanning/posting these?

Phbbtt! A mere bagatelle Took all of three seconds to load the full page (I love broadband!!) I stick a sheet of flat black paper behind newsprint when scanning, it greatly reduces that "bleed through" effect from the reverse side print. Aside from that, it’s hard to get around that artifacting when the compression is set so high. /daytripper

Response:

Question:

Hi everyone I have been a coarse angler for 40 years But now  I am switching to fly fishing I have recently purchased two fly rods a) 8-0 foot brook rod b) 9-1/2 foot reservoir rod can anyone advise me what type of lines I need and any other advice Thanks Dennis

Dennis, I am in the same place as you (just starting) and I found a great site that shows several of the knots that are needed in fly fishing.  Hope this helps. http://www.killroys.com/knots/knots.htm  I wish I could help with your line selection. — All fishermen are liars ‘cept you n me, and I’m starting to have doubts about you! www.fishticker.com

Response:

Hi everyone I have been a coarse angler for 40 years But now  I am switching to fly fishing I have recently purchased two fly rods a) 8-0 foot brook rod b) 9-1/2 foot reservoir rod  can anyone advise me what type of lines I need and any other advice Thanks Dennis

Response:

Dennis Walker writes: Hi everyone I have been a coarse angler for 40 years But now  I am switching to fly fishing I have recently purchased two fly rods a) 8-0 foot brook rod b) 9-1/2 foot reservoir rod can anyone advise me what type of lines I need and any other advice Thanks Dennis

Hi, Dennis.  You don’t give the line weight of the rods or how you will be fishing them (dries, nymphs, streamers).  For example, if you are going to fish streams with dry flies, a floating line (weight forward or double taper) would be in order.  The same for nymphing.  If, however, you are going to be casting streamers, a sinking line would be better. Dave LaCourse

Response:

Hi everyone I have been a coarse angler for 40 years But now  I am switching to fly fishing I have recently purchased two fly rods a) 8-0 foot brook rod b) 9-1/2 foot reservoir rod  can anyone advise me what type of lines I need and any other advice Thanks Dennis

Contact Tony Deacon, hire him for casting & fishing lessons as well as consulting.  As a beginner in England, you will need some hands-on expertise to show you the ropes.  It will save you money and frustration. — Wayne (Tony, remit referral fee in form of 1/2 day chit good for chalk stream fishing in England/Scotland) To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

First of all, don’t use the terms *hook* &  *worm* and flyfishin’ in the same post. There’s a great little book which covers novice info, put out by, "Trailside Adventure," titled Flyfishing.  You may be familiar with the PBS series. The book covers knots, casting, types of flyfishin’, flys, ect…  Orvis also has a great beginners book, don’t recall the name presently.  Should be on their web site! Hang around and much advice will likely follow.  I’d offer to help, but I don’t fish so good, so my advice is limited to books. Op

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can someone lead me to an informative source where i can learn the fundamentals of Fly Fishing I got a real nice rod and reel for a present but i’m not sure how put together the leader and the line and make it work.  Can somebody help me out here?  I love catching those little brookies but I have only done it on a hook and worm. I’m not a COMPLETE idiot , i just havent done a whole lot of fly fishing. Thanks for your time, Darrin

Response:

I love catching those little brookies but I have only done it on a hook and worm. I’m not a COMPLETE idiot , …

If catching is what you love, worms are the way to go. You’ll catch far more brookies with worms than with any other method save dynamite or rotenone. For flyfishing we generally recommend _The Curtis Creek Manifesto_ by Sheridan Anderson, Frank Amato Pubns; ISBN: 0936608064 Some think there’s more to flyfishing than catching, YMMV. Good luck. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Orvis also has a great beginners book, don’t recall the name presently.  Should be on their web site!

Also here http://www.crosswinds.net/~brbg/books/brbg-gen-ff.html.  This book is by Tom Rosenbauer, who wrote a couple other books I know of "Reading Troutstreams" and "Prospecting for Trout".  He’s a good writer and after you check out a basic book, you might want to look at one of these 2 next. Regards, Jeff

Response:

If catching is what you love, worms are the way to go. You’ll catch far more brookies with worms than with any other method save dynamite or rotenone. Some think there’s more to flyfishing than catching, YMMV. Ken Fortenberry

Ahmen Brother!!! Wayne & Dianna enjoying the flyfishing. To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

Some think there’s more to flyfishing than catching, YMMV.

Sometimes hiking is a pain I gotta go through to get to the fish, but then there are the times where I feel like carrying my fly rod is just good excuse for hiking up some beautiful paths and streams. Regards, Jeff

Response:

Can somebody help me out here?

You have received some good advice here. IMHO, once you have a good book and an idea of what the sport is about, seek out a flyfishing club and ask for their help getting started. In all likelihood someone will mentor you and explain the things that books and pictures can’t. If there are no clubs nearby, approach people you meet on the stream and ask questions. If you approach them in the same manner you entered ROFF, I’m sure they will help. Keep posting your questions here as well, and keep us informed as to your progress. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

Marge, I believe it is proper to identify yourself as an agent of the "suggested" business you are providing a link to. I’m surprised you just don’t use your normal isp address instead of an anonymous one. Just a friendly suggestion. Have a nice day, Walt ezflyfish.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here is a pretty good place to start. http://www.bluequillangler.com/learning_flyfishing.html Can someone lead me to an informative source where i can learn the fundamentals of Fly Fishing Before you buy.

Response:

Here is a pretty good place to start. http://www.bluequillangler.com/learning_flyfishing.html Can someone lead me to an informative source where i can learn the fundamentals of Fly Fishing

Before you buy.

Response:

www.troutfishing.co.za & click on lessons. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Can someone lead me to an informative source where i can learn the fundamentals of Fly Fishing I got a real nice rod and reel for a present but i’m not sure how put together the leader and the line and make it work. Can somebody help me out here?  I love catching those little brookies but I have only done it on a hook and worm. I’m not a COMPLETE idiot , i just havent done a whole lot of fly fishing. Thanks for your time, Darrin

Response:

Can someone lead me to an informative source where i can learn the fundamentals of Fly Fishing I got a real nice rod and reel for a present but i’m not sure how put together the leader and the line and make it work.  Can somebody help me out here?  I love catching those little brookies but I have only done it on a hook and worm. I’m not a COMPLETE idiot , i just havent done a whole lot of fly fishing. Thanks for your time, Darrin

Response:

I got a real nice rod and reel

At least you didn’t call it a pole. I’m not a COMPLETE idiot

Good!  Sometimes that helps.  :-) http://www.virtualflyshop.com/ Has a ton of good information, from basic to advanced. — Levi "So long, and thanks for all the fish."

Response:

Good luck in a fun new "sport."  hit a local library and search fir fly fishing.. hell, if i learned how that way, you can too.  see if you can find some poor sucker around where you live to help you out.. and , get a bunch of flies, go to a stream, and practice.  you will need a bunc of flies cause you can expect to lose many of them your first time out. that will end, dont panic. edwin

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can someone lead me to an informative source where i can learn the fundamentals of Fly Fishing I got a real nice rod and reel for a present but i’m not sure how put together the leader and the line and make it work.  Can somebody help me out here?  I love catching those little brookies but I have only done it on a hook and worm. I’m not a COMPLETE idiot , i just havent done a whole lot of fly fishing. Thanks for your time, Darrin

Response:

Can someone lead me to an informative source where i can learn the fundamentals of Fly Fishing

Darrin,  You are going to need some supplies to get started.  I would take what you have and head to the nearest flyshop.  Tell them what is going on and they will most likely show you have to put the line together and attach a leader, tippet, ect.  Buy some stuff to let them know you are serious.  Maybe a flybox and some flies, tippet, ect.  Be ready to spend about $100 (I know I have a hard time leaving without spending at least $50 and that is being conservative). Ask about classes they offer.  Most shops offer beginner courses in casting, ect.  Some shops can be really helpful in getting a beginner started.  Not only will they obviously sell you what you need, but will give you enough advice to keep you coming back to spend more money.  Make a few friends with some people who fly fish as well.  It helps having someone around you can get some free advice from. Books and stuff are okay, but you cannot beat personal instruction, especially when it is free.  There are a lot of good websites out there with info on knots, ect.  Check them out and practice what you learn.  Practice casting on your lawn or at a park.  Sounds stupid, but lawn fishing can save you some frustration out on the water. HTH. Warren X#-[

Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

Response:

Question:

I’m looking for a description of the fishing itself.  I only ask this because you said I don’t need pay $ for a guide on my first day. Additionally, I’ve never fished the Madison River.  

Might not be so bad.  The guy is providing a boat and you will get to cover a lot of water.  You can come back on your own later and fish the spots that appeal to you (unless of course access is limited). Mu

Response:

Ah, the B-52s. I miss them no matter where I am. Great rock and roll dance music!

I was talking about the shot B-52 not the music.  I’m a blue grass man.  I had no idea that there was a band called the B-52. Vern

Response:

Ah, the B-52s. I miss them no matter where I am. Great rock and roll dance music! I was talking about the shot B-52 not the music.  I’m a blue grass man.  I had no idea that there was a band called the B-52.

I knew you weren’t referring to the band, Vern ;^)

Response:

 In fact, you can have seperate quarters away from the likes of Fortenberry, Waldo, Tripper, Wayno, and Jeffy Miller.  These types will corrupt you.

        you eat one little… wayno

Response:

I did not know they had been shot ! TL MC "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Yeah, and they all copied their name from the famous USAF droopy-winged B-52, many motored sumbitch that could carry enough bombs to drop from here to there.  We fondly called it the BUF, ie: Big Ugly F*cker.  I’ve been retired now for *30* years and that big sucker is still flying in the AF inventory.  It’s gonna outlast me fer sure. Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RETIRED – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ah, the B-52s. I miss them no matter where I am. Great rock and roll dance music! I was talking about the shot B-52 not the music.  I’m a blue grass man.  I had no idea that there was a band called the B-52. Vern

Response:

Yeah, and they all copied their name from the famous USAF droopy-winged B-52, many motored sumbitch that could carry enough bombs to drop from here to there.  We fondly called it the BUF, ie: Big Ugly F*cker.  I’ve been retired now for *30* years and that big sucker is still flying in the AF inventory.  It’s gonna outlast me fer sure.

I grew up in Wichita watching those bad boys fly around at Boeing and McConnell (my dad worked on them at Boeing). Awesome plane. — Charlie…

Response:

Frank Church writes: Yeah, and they all copied their name from the famous USAF droopy-winged B-52, many motored sumbitch that could carry enough bombs to drop from here to there.  We fondly called it the BUF, ie: Big Ugly F*cker.  I’ve been retired now for *30* years and that big sucker is still flying in the AF inventory.  It’s gonna outlast me fer sure.

Frank, I used to live within shouting distance of Westover AFB.  I can remember the B-47s taking off and landing.  But then came those bigger BUFs, the B-52 Speaking of droopy wings — the U-2 wasn’t exactly a stubby winged aircraft. One scared the hell out of me in Japan, landing without power, gliding about 100 feet off the ground, as I walked to work.  All I saw was a giant shadow whisking over me.  It was going into Atsugi Naval Air Station on the other side of the rice paddies. OBROFF:  There is probably still room for the Maine Clave next September. Great fishing, great food, great friends.  Consider it.  Fourteen attending so far. Dave L.

Response:

I grew up in Wichita watching those bad boys fly around at Boeing and McConnell (my dad worked on them at Boeing). Awesome plane.

B-52’s flew in and out of Hanscom Field in the town I grew up in, to get outfitted with the latest black boxes that the Charles Stark Draper and Mitre Labs folks cooked up over there. Flight path to the only runway that’d take those big mf’s went right over our house, but that wasn’t close enough for me and my friends, so we’d ride our bikes out to the perimeter fence at the end of the safety zone and watch them big bastids swoop in and out. Awesome. It’s a miracle I can still hear anything… /daytripper

Response:

of the safety zone and watch them big bastids swoop in and out. Awesome.

I saw one take off back in the 70s that must have been using water injectors and the whole deal; I don’t know what his angle of climb was but I was looking for the CONELRAD station on my dial<g. — Charlie…

Response:

Awesome.

"…fryin’ chickens in the barnyard!" General "Buck" Turgidson

Response:

<Snipped tribute to B-52’s & U-2’s.

Dave Years ago I used to work in the Oklahoma Panhandle which is pretty sparsely populated.  Unknown to me was the fact that there was a flyway for low altitude bombing runs that ran from Clayton, NM to somewhere in western OK.  I was driving down some dirt road trying to find a farmhouse when about 10 B-52’s flew over about 1,000 feet or less off the ground and at full bore.  These guys came one right after the other and just after you lost your  hearing , you could still feel to car and ground vibrate.  The F-111’s that came after them sounded like learjets.  This was when I started carrying toilet paper in my car.  You never know. DP

Response:

I did not know they had been shot !

The planes? They were shot _at_, but they got out unscathed. Opt out == cop-out. What’s so hard to understand?

Response:

 I was driving down some dirt road trying to find a farmhouse when about 10 B-52’s flew over about 1,000 feet or less off the ground and at full bore.  

The early B52’s had the tail gunner actually in the tail. When they modified the plane for low altitude operations they had to move the position to the flight deck after they almost killed one or two in test flights. — Charlie…

Response:

Yesterday I was searching the Internet for a guide in Ennis, Montana for the western conclave.  I thought it would be fun to pay for a day with a guide to familiarize me with the area before doing it alone.  I couldn’t find any in the Ennis area.  Yea, a few in Montana just not in the Ennis area. While in the middle of searching and getting discouraged the man in the brown truck knocked on my door. Remember the fly rod that had the tip snapped off in the car door?  Some suggested I contact the company and see if they would replace it.  I followed your suggestion and sent it off.  The UPS man brought it back yesterday.  Well, I thought he brought it back.  However, when I opened the box it was a completely different rod.  It was a nice and new rod without the river slime on the cork handle.  Cool! The UPS man asked me what it was and I told him the story.  I also told him that I’m going to Montana in July for a fly-fishing conclave.  I also told him that I was searching the Internet for a guide for a guide but couldn’t find one. He replied, "I don’t know what part of Montana your going.  But, if it’s near Ennis, my father in-law is a guide." I almost started laughing.  "Ennis!  That’s where were going," I said. He then informed me that his father in-law is currently in Las Vegas on vacation. What are the odds? To make a long story a little shorter, I talked to his father in-law.  His name is Bob Cleverley.  He’s currently retired but used to be a HS football coach.  He’s been a guide on the Madison River for over 15 years.  I think he said 17 years but not certain.  He has owned a fly shop in the past. However, running the shop, his guide service, and teaching at the local HS was to much for him so he got rid of the fly shop.  Now he’s retired.  How nice for him. Now back to the guide service, it’s a flat fee of $275 which includes transportation, a full day of fly-fishing, over 20 miles floating on the Madison in a 17 foot fiberglass drift-boat, food for the day, and all the local information a local lifetime fly-fisherman can provide.  The price is a flat fee per boat regardless of how many go.  However, only two fly-fisherman per boat.  He has three boats.  He also has other friends that provide guide service. I was hoping another ROFFian could split the price with me.  What I was thinking $150 each.  That would pay for the $275 fee and a $25 tip.  If the fishing is good I could tip him even more. I believe the western conclave is scheduled for July 21-31 in spite George’s desire for it to be around the 4th of July.  I will be taking 9 days off work.  Although, I’m driving and allowing 2 days up and 2 days back.  I have 2 options for my days off, the July18-26 or the July 25- Aug. 2.  That translates into my conclave days either July 21-24 or July 27-31.  I have to make that decision on the day my fly-fishing partner can take the guide service. Here it is, either a guide service on July 21 or July 27.  If you are interested on sharing a trip with me post it or send me an e-mail. Additionally, let me know what day is best for you.  I will schedule the trip.  I don’t have to put a deposit down at this point.  However, after the first of July if I need to cancel there is a $100 cancellation fee. Again, Bob Cleverley has three boats and can get more if needed.  The more ROFFians the better. Vern

Response:

Vern writes:

(lil snip) Since I’ve never been to a conclave before I don’t really know what goes on other than breakfast preparation in one’s BVDs, midnight fishing trips while hanging onto a wooden love, sleeping-in while others post to ROFF on their notebooks, lots of drinking and a lot more drinking, rowdy conversations, and really good fishing.  Can you please provide a standard description of a ROFF conclave so I know what to expect?  Warren’s not going to be the guide all ten day is he?

Vern, not to worry.  At an conclave, you can do just about as you please.  The organizers will have scouted out places to fish and will direct you to such places and perhaps even guide you seperately. There will probably be folks at the Western Clave who have fished those waters and they will help Warren in fishing assignments and guiding.  The main thing of any clave is to have fun fishing with buddies/friends, regardless how you met them.  The internet claves I have attended so far have been filled with juvenile antics, much joking, swearing, hard-assing, by a bunch of educated serious men on their way to go fly fishing. Stories about one’s bvds and night fishing etc. are bound to occur.  There will be more stories from the Western Clave and the Spring Fling for that matter. No one is forcing you to drink or smoke or stay up late. In fact, you can have seperate quarters away from the likes of Fortenberry, Waldo, Tripper, Wayno, and Jeffy Miller.  These types will corrupt you.  You could  hang around with Charlie Choc – go to bed early, wake up late, go fishing.  <g As I understand it, you would like to get to Ennis a day or so early and "scout" the place out, possibly even hire a guide for a day.  Arriving early and checking things out is ok, but I am sure Warren and the rest of the western roffians would be more than willing to help. Main thought here, Vern, is:  don’t worry about it.  You will be with friends. They may hard-ass ya, and joke with ya, but they love ya and will make sure you have a great time. I hope to fish with you.  I will have my grand-sons (15 and 16) with me. Dave L.

Response:

Since I’ve never been to a conclave before I don’t really know what goes on other than breakfast preparation in one’s BVDs, midnight fishing trips while hanging onto a wooden love, sleeping-in while others post to ROFF on their notebooks, lots of drinking and a lot more drinking, rowdy conversations, and really good fishing.  Can you please provide a standard description of a ROFF conclave so I know what to expect?

Given your opening paragraph, that’d be redundant. You nailed it! Warren’s not going to be the guide all ten day is he?

There should be at least a few people that have fished that area to allow the group to break up into smaller units. Nobody’s gonna want to fish the Madison for the entire duration – there are many other rivers to fish within 2 or 3 hours of Ennis. I should mention that I gave up alcohol and cigars around 3 to 4 years ago. I miss them at times, but I made a commitment and I can’t afford to break it.  If I do, I don’t think I could stop again.  I think I miss the cigars more than I do the B-52s, especially at the stream.

Ah, the B-52s. I miss them no matter where I am. Great rock and roll dance music! So, whatever description you provide, there’s no need to tempt me with explanations of liquid refreshment.

Normally I’d torture you by noting that you’re surely doomed to a week of depravity, moral turpitude, and Xtreme Liver Abuse. However, I’ll go easy on you and note that Le Duc Du Chocolate has escaped unscathed – repeatedly – with his facilities intact and his morals unmolested. Despite repeated attempts to torpedo same. I’m looking for a description of the fishing itself.  I only ask this because you said I don’t need pay $ for a guide on my first day. Additionally, I’ve never fished the Madison River.  I don’t know what to expect.  If others that have fished the Madison would be kind enough to describe what kind of river it is, I would be much appreciated.

The upper reaches – assuming the river below the Hebgen Lake hasn’t changed much – is a short set of small braids winding through the pucker brush. Short rod fishing works best there. These collect into a modest flow for about a mile if memory serves, then there’s a broad stretch (lake-ish) a few miles long – not really fishable on foot iirc – until you get below Rock Creek. Then you have about 10 miles of fishable water down to Kirby Ranch. From there down to Varney (about 25 miles I think) and beyond the river becomes broader and more boisterous – depending on how much water is coming down through a whole host of creeks – and the best (or at least easiest) fishing is from a drift boat. I’ve done the stretch from Kirby Ranch to the Varney bridge a few times in my life and caught some prodigiously large trout and white fish. There were lots of places to stop the boat and get out and wade gravel bars and cast to wonderful holes. The biggest trout I’ve ever hooked and lost was in the middle of that stretch. There was good fishing on foot along a lot of the river the last time I was out there – but that was before people started building goddamned houses along the banks and posting it, and of course the whirling disease has probably changed what’s in the river – so I’ll have to let others bring me up to date. But again, that’s just one river – and there are a handful of famous streams within 3 hours or so of Ennis. If this post doesn’t make much sense, it’s because I’m falling asleep after a long day.  It’s now 12:30 in Las Vegas.  So, please forgive any errors.

Wimp! It’s now 5:54 in Massachusetts and I’ve been up all night getting a newsletter published. Forget sleepin’ – it’d only make me feel even worse – so it’s direct-injected caffeine for me today! /daytripper (I’m getting too old for this shit!)

Response:

speaking of the western clave, where the hell is Warren?

He’s doing fine. I got an email from him a few days ago. Everything is on track for the Western Clave. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

You don’t need to pay hard-earned money for guide, Vern, Warren’s the guide. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Since I’ve never been to a conclave before I don’t really know what goes on other than breakfast preparation in one’s BVDs, midnight fishing trips while hanging onto a wooden love, sleeping-in while others post to ROFF on their notebooks, lots of drinking and a lot more drinking, rowdy conversations, and really good fishing.  Can you please provide a standard description of a ROFF conclave so I know what to expect?  Warren’s not going to be the guide all ten day is he? I should mention that I gave up alcohol and cigars around 3 to 4 years ago. I miss them at times, but I made a commitment and I can’t afford to break it.  If I do, I don’t think I could stop again.  I think I miss the cigars more than I do the B-52s, especially at the stream.  So, whatever description you provide, there’s no need to tempt me with explanations of liquid refreshment. I’m looking for a description of the fishing itself.  I only ask this because you said I don’t need pay $ for a guide on my first day. Additionally, I’ve never fished the Madison River.  I don’t know what to expect.  If others that have fished the Madison would be kind enough to describe what kind of river it is, I would be much appreciated. If this post doesn’t make much sense, it’s because I’m falling asleep after a long day.  It’s now 12:30 in Las Vegas.  So, please forgive any errors. Vern – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You don’t need to pay hard-earned money for guide, Vern, Warren’s the guide. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Probably sick of George dominating the news group. Big Dale

Response:

Probably sick of George dominating the news group. Big Dale

Big D, Have you been getting any ‘gills this winter? There’s a nice lake up here that has bass and gills in it. It also has yours and my name on it one afternoon in May. Stay loose big guy, Walt — Ezflyfish.com:  http://www.ezflyfish.com For Book & Print Auctions: http://www.amazon.com/seller/mariebooks Blue Ridge Book Gallery: http://www.bibliofind.com/cgi-bin/texis.exe/s/search/dhome.html?id=33… P.O. Box 5112, Banner Elk, NC 28604

Response:

speaking of the western clave, where the hell is Warren? — Levi Always do sober what you said you’d do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut. –Ernest Hemingway

According to Dave L. he’s been busy with hunting and his work. Darin

Response:

speaking of the western clave, where the hell is Warren? — Levi Always do sober what you said you’d do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut. –Ernest Hemingway

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Darin Minor writes: speaking of the western clave, where the hell is Warren? — Levi Always do sober what you said you’d do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut. –Ernest Hemingway According to Dave L. he’s been busy with hunting and his work. Darin

Yeah, but that was about two weeks ago that I heard from him.   Dave L.

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A.P.Dryden schrieb in Nachricht … Okay, I’ll fess up, too. I suck at drinking The Famous Grouse. I’m self-taught, from books. Never had a drinking lesson. :-O -<=== (me, drinking straight from the bottle of life) — A.P. Dryden A Loyal Explorer of The Famous Grouse Share a Wee Dram and a Tall Tale at http://www.famousgrouse.com/explorers Considering my well known and widely praised lyrical laudations of your esteemed beverage, and following a whim, basically engendered by being referred to as a salon fixture, failed  poet and a dumb popcorn fuelled farting ox, which caused me to imbibe freely of the aforementioned excellent beverage, probably due to fear of instant withering, and as a form of preventive medication, I had occasion to wander into your hallowed halls and was shocked to discover a flagrant case of discrimination, as opposed to a fragrant case of whiskey. In order to alleviate the almost fatal shock resulting from this discovery of unquieting enormity, I was obliged to partake of a further half bottle in order to steady my shattered faith in humankind, and restore my constitution and strengthen my unwavering resolve to continue my explorations. How is it sir that only colonials are admitted to your illustrious ranks, by whose decree is one of the highest possible honours ever to be bestowed on a grateful and undeserving multitude only available to members of a formal penal colony ? That juveniles may not be admitted to the glorious ranks is clear, and requires no further enlightenment, but I sir am an Englishman ! I beg you to reconsider your decision, as otherwise I will be forced to send her most regal majesties official diapproval, a tanker load of freeze dried tea,  and an expeditionary force to convince you of our basically peaceful intentions. We ask, nay sir we demand ! that these unjust and unecessarily cruel discriminations cease forthwith, otherwise sir the consequences may be grave indeed, and might well otherwise result in many wantonly resorting to the uncontrolled use of port and brandy. Yours sincerely Michael A.B.Connor  Class of ROFF 99 ( failed ).

   Huh! (didn’t talk till 6, pointen worked jest fine)                                                                John Popp                                                           in Sanford Fl.

Response:

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– While in non-compliance with local decency ordinances the world over, We ask, nay sir we demand ! that these unjust and unecessarily cruel discriminations cease forthwith, otherwise sir the consequences may be grave indeed, and might well otherwise result in many wantonly resorting to the uncontrolled use of port and brandy.

Truly the act of a desperate man. My gawd, I’ve got scotch like nobody’s business, but none of it’s the bird. Anything more expensive than Pete Dawson’s messes me up the morning after. Want some? —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNrB40ZdiUzdLFqlpAQEtvgf/RxrzL00kA35+K1jREtq+eN3IsCfj/EtD Z/F5e5+LjTkNmcMx/ztVxWqlmh7Eiw+yTbeeD1BOXaoFwlqRag8vbAUfHcmXT87A q6PTzOfrU20si/S8sJlYPmwr60mZrfwvlcrMTi5n97qLneppSQrG/lF2dPm0VL3I Bjh4TA4iS62MMx7ouBVWnGE/QQso1anrwSu33JfVHlKGfLQyTiGWM94r2SkOEg2z E1IrQFJCHWpL2cO49udHzsNc55+EVRWqGJyf/VNnMZpT9kxjw+Bk63+DW9EhfPMm aYifNpyGpHzfBQ55/1e9nNO37BeOvSwq0dh/rzzubp0jVg7/xnO0FA== =T2BU —–END PGP SIGNATURE—– Mike S. Medintz, http://www.grapevine.net/~medintz "I’m a liberal conservative. I believe in keeping things the way that  they should have been in the first place." -anon.

Response:

Mike Medintz: <<—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– While in non-compliance with local decency ordinances the world over, We ask, nay sir we demand ! that these unjust and unecessarily cruel discriminations cease forthwith, otherwise sir the consequences may be grave indeed, and might well otherwise result in many wantonly resorting to the uncontrolled use of port and brandy.

Truly the act of a desperate man. My gawd, I’ve got scotch like nobody’s business, but none of it’s the bird. Anything more expensive than Pete Dawson’s messes me up the morning after. Want some? —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNrB40ZdiUzdLFqlpAQEtvgf/RxrzL00kA35+K1jREtq+eN3IsCfj/EtD Z/F5e5+LjTkNmcMx/ztVxWqlmh7Eiw+yTbeeD1BOXaoFwlqRag8vbAUfHcmXT87A q6PTzOfrU20si/S8sJlYPmwr60mZrfwvlcrMTi5n97qLneppSQrG/lF2dPm0VL3I Bjh4TA4iS62MMx7ouBVWnGE/QQso1anrwSu33JfVHlKGfLQyTiGWM94r2SkOEg2z E1IrQFJCHWpL2cO49udHzsNc55+EVRWqGJyf/VNnMZpT9kxjw+Bk63+DW9EhfPMm aYifNpyGpHzfBQ55/1e9nNO37BeOvSwq0dh/rzzubp0jVg7/xnO0FA== =T2BU —–END PGP SIGNATURE—– Mike S. Medintz, http://www.grapevine.net/~medintz "I’m a liberal conservative. I believe in keeping things the way that  they should have been in the first place." -anon. Mike, just curious, but what the hell is all the stuff between "Begin PGP Signature"  and "End PGP Signature"?  And, why is it there? Dave LaCourse

Response:

Okay, I’ll fess up, too. I suck at drinking The Famous Grouse. I’m self-taught, from books. Never had a drinking lesson. :-O -<=== (me, drinking straight from the bottle of life)

A.P., that’s what we need to really get ROFF going, and further irritate those who are complaining about content – drinking lessons. Based on your vast experience, I think you should start with a post or two about techniques for attacking the famous grouse. Mark Faulkner

Response:

A.P.Dryden schrieb in Nachricht … Okay, I’ll fess up, too. I suck at drinking The Famous Grouse. I’m self-taught, from books. Never had a drinking lesson. :-O -<=== (me, drinking straight from the bottle of life) — A.P. Dryden A Loyal Explorer of The Famous Grouse Share a Wee Dram and a Tall Tale at http://www.famousgrouse.com/explorers

Considering my well known and widely praised lyrical laudations of your esteemed beverage, and following a whim, basically engendered by being referred to as a salon fixture, failed  poet and a dumb popcorn fuelled farting ox, which caused me to imbibe freely of the aforementioned excellent beverage, probably due to fear of instant withering, and as a form of preventive medication, I had occasion to wander into your hallowed halls and was shocked to discover a flagrant case of discrimination, as opposed to a fragrant case of whiskey. In order to alleviate the almost fatal shock resulting from this discovery of unquieting enormity, I was obliged to partake of a further half bottle in order to steady my shattered faith in humankind, and restore my constitution and strengthen my unwavering resolve to continue my explorations. How is it sir that only colonials are admitted to your illustrious ranks, by whose decree is one of the highest possible honours ever to be bestowed on a grateful and undeserving multitude only available to members of a formal penal colony ? That juveniles may not be admitted to the glorious ranks is clear, and requires no further enlightenment, but I sir am an Englishman ! I beg you to reconsider your decision, as otherwise I will be forced to send her most regal majesties official diapproval, a tanker load of freeze dried tea,  and an expeditionary force to convince you of our basically peaceful intentions. We ask, nay sir we demand ! that these unjust and unecessarily cruel discriminations cease forthwith, otherwise sir the consequences may be grave indeed, and might well otherwise result in many wantonly resorting to the uncontrolled use of port and brandy. Yours sincerely Michael A.B.Connor  Class of ROFF 99 ( failed ).

Response:

(Frogspritz) writes: Based on your vast experience, I think you should start with a post or two about techniques for attacking the famous grouse.

I’ll start. How to serve Famous Grouse. 1. Open Bottle 2. Get appropriate glass. 3. Pour Famous Grouse down the sink. 4. Pour into the glass an appropiate single malt scotch. 5. Enjoy! Wayne Knight Geneva IL                            

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A.P.Dryden schrieb in Nachricht … Okay, I’ll fess up, too. I suck at drinking The Famous Grouse. I’m self-taught, from books. Never had a drinking lesson. :-O -<=== (me, drinking straight from the bottle of life) — A.P. Dryden A Loyal Explorer of The Famous Grouse Share a Wee Dram and a Tall Tale at http://www.famousgrouse.com/explorers Considering my well known and widely praised lyrical laudations of your esteemed beverage, and following a whim, basically engendered by being referred to as a salon fixture, failed  poet and a dumb popcorn fuelled farting ox, which caused me to imbibe freely of the aforementioned excellent beverage, probably due to fear of instant withering, and as a form of preventive medication, I had occasion to wander into your hallowed halls Yours sincerely

(snip of hilarious stuff) Michael A.B.Connor  Class of ROFF 99 ( failed ).

        wonderfully done, michael!         damn near enough to turn you into an anglophile, isn’t it, taffy ol friend? wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

I figure now is the time to fess up, before you all meet me in NC. Besides the fact that i’m the youngest buck in the group, I suck at flyfishing. I’m self taught, from books. Never had a casting lesson, tying lesson, or any other type of lesson. So you guys leave me alone when I start snagging your clothes and tying masturful blobs of dubbing! Tim Apple P.S. I am very proficient at drinking the Famouse Grouse though.

Response:

I figure now is the time to fess up, before you all meet me in NC. Besides the fact that i’m the youngest buck in the group, I suck at flyfishing. I’m self taught, from books. Never had a casting lesson, tying lesson, or any other type of lesson. So you guys leave me alone when I start snagging your clothes and tying masturful blobs of dubbing! Tim Apple P.S. I am very proficient at drinking the Famouse Grouse though.

Tim, you actually believe we know how to fish? hell wayno’s gonna be cryin in his cabin most of the time mumbling "how did waldo sink that 30′ putt" between gulps of vodka. i’m gonna be runnin to the bank to deposit my winnings and george is gonna be screamin from his cabin "c’mon guys let me out" after we spike his door. some other nameless person will be tending to his animal husbandry. matt will be hungover, won’t be able to fish at all. tom will be playing with his loran equipment. mark will be chasing his southern dreams and wayne will be chasing other game. let’s see, that leaves big al and charlie…. imnsho, probaly damn good fishing pardners fer ya. apologies for any ruffled feathers and especially if i inadvertantly left someone out. –Wataugan "let the clave begin" Walt

Response:

What the hell was that! Speak American, damn it! TWL         Big Al – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I figure now is the time to fess up, before you all meet me in NC. Besides the fact that i’m the youngest buck in the group, I suck at flyfishing. I’m self taught, from books. Never had a casting lesson, tying lesson, or any other type of lesson. So you guys leave me alone when I start snagging your clothes and tying masturful blobs of dubbing! Tim Apple P.S. I am very proficient at drinking the Famouse Grouse though. Tim, you actually believe we know how to fish? hell wayno’s gonna be cryin in his cabin most of the time mumbling "how did waldo sink that 30′ putt" between gulps of vodka. i’m gonna be runnin to the bank to deposit my winnings and george is gonna be screamin from his cabin "c’mon guys let me out" after we spike his door. some other nameless person will be tending to his animal husbandry. matt will be hungover, won’t be able to fish at all. tom will be playing with his loran equipment. mark will be chasing his southern dreams and wayne will be chasing other game. let’s see, that leaves big al and charlie…. imnsho, probaly damn good fishing pardners fer ya. apologies for any ruffled feathers and especially if i inadvertantly left someone out. –Wataugan "let the clave begin" Walt

Response:

I figure now is the time to fess up, before you all meet me in NC. Besides the fact that i’m the youngest buck in the group, I suck at flyfishing. I’m self taught, from books. Never had a casting lesson, tying lesson, or any other type of lesson. So you guys leave me alone when I start snagging your clothes and tying masturful blobs of dubbing! Tim Apple P.S. I am very proficient at drinking the Famouse Grouse though.

*twitch!* ignore. *twitch, twitch* ignore I’m not biting! This monster is drifting down stream. the G fish —

Question:

I do a lot of inshore and offshore ffing in the Gulf of Mexico.  The following are my observations: As far as ease of purchasing, changing and using, go Orvis – may not be the absolute best but certainly the easiest with the most options Use 1 line weight heavier than your rod weight The floating lines shoot ok, but the sinking lines will really get out there Don’t expect gentle presentation – these lines are typically not very stealthy Don’t expect to replace your need for regular fly lines with the shooting heads – they are good for some circumstances – not all I consider myself something of a saltwater ffing purist (if there is such a thing) and I have found a lack of desire to use the shooting lines – I dislike the feel and presentation so much that I have quit using them unless I am fishing in a veritable gale.  However, the best thing to do is set a spool up for shooting heads and see if they are for you.  You can switch around between varieties of heads and line weights with such ease that if you remotely like them, it will be well worth it. Anchor Boy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve never used shootling lines. Does anyone have any opinions or advice? Also, what’s the best running line to use? Thanks, Randall Kadish Randy,    Check out: http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Rapids/3853/heads.html this should help other good info on this web site as well -paul

Response:

I’ve never used shootling lines. Does anyone have any opinions or advice? Also, what’s the best running line to use? Thanks, Randall Kadish

Hi Randy, I don’t recommend shooting heads for all fly fishing, but for certain things they are tops. If you are using a shooting head, then you can use lots of different types of running line. 1) Monofilament is very popular, cheap and gives lots of distance. It can tangle and is hard to hold onto. 2) Braided mono shooting line is another choice. 3) Floating fly line running lines are nice because they are easier to hold onto and they don’t tangle as much as mono. They don’t usually cast as far as mono. These all come in different brands and diameters. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

Response:

I’ve never used shootling lines. Does anyone have any opinions or advice? Also, what’s the best running line to use? Thanks, Randall Kadish

Randy,         Check out: http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Rapids/3853/heads.html this should help other good info on this web site as well -paul

Response:

I’ve never used shootling lines. Does anyone have any opinions or advice? Also, what’s the best running line to use? Thanks, Randall Kadish

Try RIO shooting line (Slick shooter)

Response:

writes Also, what’s the best running line to use?

 Try "Stren" or "Amnesia" — Bill

Response:

I’ve never used shootling lines. Does anyone have any opinions or advice? Also, what’s the best running line to use? Thanks, Randall Kadish

Response:

Question:

Jim: In addition to the excellent suggestions made by Bob, I would suggest you also look at Cortland and Reddington.  Both make rod/reel/line combos, probably falling somewhere in between the low and medium price range.  Cortland’s usually includes a video that may be helpful.  Also, the Sage Discovery series has a combo that is worth a look that isn’t exhorbitantly priced.  All of those manufacturers will have dealers somewhere that should allow you to try the rods before buying, to see what feels best for you.  On the mail order side, Cabela’s has a number of combos available. Of course, a good fly shop will be able to work with you and put together a package that works too. Once you’ve got all that stuff, you’ll need some flies.  They seem to run between $1 and $2 apiece for decent flies where I live.  Hopefully you’ve already got some waders and wading shoes/boots. URL’s Cortland  <http://www.lightlink.com/cortland Cabela’s  <http://www.cabelas.com While looking at the combo packages, don’t think that because they are less expensive than the top of the line they are junk.  On the contrary. You may eventually want to move up in quality, but a good package from a good manufacturer should serve you in good stead for quite some time (until you just gotta have that high end Winston, Loomis, T & T etc. <grin) Good luck and happy shopping. Ron.

Response:

Jim, It’s likely you may want to get more than one rod/reel combo to "cover the bases".  I don’t know exactly what you’re after, but I’d suggest a 5-weight and a 9-weight.  The 5 is incredibly versatile for trout and other freshwater fish, while the 9 will give you a great saltwater rod for bluefish, stripers, bonefish and permit, as well as offering you the opportunity to pull in some big steelhead.  You can get the whole nine yards from Orvis for around $400 for each rod/reel combo–and that includes the line and cases.  Of course, you’ll also want to invest in a good pair of waders, a vest, flies, etc…my advice would be to talk to a guide in the area where you will be doing most of your fishing. Enjoy. E

Response:

Jim, It’s likely you may want to get more than one rod/reel combo to "cover the bases".  I don’t know exactly what you’re after, but I’d suggest a 5-weight and a 9-weight…

Jim, This is the beginning of the end. Once you’ve got the five weight and the nine weight, and a reel and line to go with each, and the jacket and the bags, and the flies and the boxes, you’ll be in too deep to get out. Like the rest of us. Andrew                     The History of Fly Fishing             http://www.elisis.com/Fly.fishing.history/

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jim, It’s likely you may want to get more than one rod/reel combo to "cover the bases".  I don’t know exactly what you’re after, but I’d suggest a 5-weight and a 9-weight… Jim, This is the beginning of the end. Once you’ve got the five weight and the nine weight, and a reel and line to go with each, and the jacket and the bags, and the flies and the boxes, you’ll be in too deep to get out. Like the rest of us. Andrew                    The History of Fly Fishing            http://www.elisis.com/Fly.fishing.history/

        Dear new found friends- I really wanted to thank all of you for your generosity of time and advise- I’ve quite frankly been amazed at the number of you in the NG that were willing to spend the amount of time you have to help a total neophyte.  Of course I realized after receiving some response that I was too ignorant to have given you all any pertinent info about what the heck I might be trying to catch-Dah!!         So let me fill you in about who you were trying to help         I’m a 55 yr old about to retire dentist- and before any of you start to wonder about why I shoul give a darn about how much this stuff costs- I must add that I’m also in possesion of the first dollar I ever made- enough said.  I’m in Ohio and plan to fish local waters for smallmouth and panfish.  I also wish to fish for trout around the Petoskey, MI area and to accompany my 82 yr old uncle ( who is still an avid trout guy) out west.         The real reason for the post was that I had heard(my ignorance) stories about $2000 outfits.  So I went to the local sportschain store to see for myself what a flyrod actually looked and felt like. They had complete outfits that really looked to me to be kind of junky and the personnel had NOT a clue about flyfishing- even I figured that out.         So although I pretty much knew I didn’t want the junk I also wasn’t real keen on walking into a REAL shop and being talked into $2000 worth of stuff without any knowledge of the alternatives.  You guys have been so kind as to give me inumerable sorces of quqlity gear at reasonable getting started prices and for that I am very grateful!!         So thanks again for the input and you should be proud of your knowledge and the "art" that you share so willingly with others.                 With kindest personal regards,                                 Jim PS.  And Dr. Andrew- Sorry but I fear that I got in "too deep" several weeks ago in Michigan.  I stood on the banks of a small stream for quite a while watching entranced as one of your compatriots plied his magic with fly rod on the stream- it was very close to a spirtual experience that I believe I want to share beside all of you.

Response:

   Could you please, if you have the time and inclination, list some tackle and gear combinations in perhaps three general price combinations- Low,Med, Top of the line.  I’d be interested in specific brand recommendations so that I can research these.

The gear market is quite a varied lot right now, so I’ll just give you some average rod/reel/line combo prices, okay? Bargain Basement End:   (Shakespeare, etc. ) $50 Low End:  (Orvis Clearwater, Bean Angler, etc.)  $150 Middle Ground:  $300 High End:  $600+ Ridiculous End: (custom bamboo, etc.)  $1500+ Depending upon your financial situation with your pending retirement, I’d recommend you jump in on the Low to Middle Ground.  I’m not sure what you’re fishing for, but for a standard trout rig, I’d recommend that you buy a decent rod, a top-end flyline, and a reel….in that order of importance.  (IMHO).  For fish under 6 lbs, with a reasonably stout tippet/leader, a click-pawl style reel will serve you nicely. For larger fish or lighter tippets, consider upgrading to a disc-drag style reel.  The more popular manufacturers/retailers in the industry today are Sage, Loomis, Orvis, LL Bean for rods.   I’d highly recommend trying a few rod/reel combinations from a local flyshop to see what type of action/length, etc. that you prefer.  The shop owners will also be able to point you to the other "necessities" which you’ll need.      Also, could you point me toward URL’s that have online catalog pricing or that I can order printed catalogs.

Here’s a couple that will start you on your research. www.llbean.com      (L.L. Bean….ask for a FFing Spec. Catalog) www.orvis.com     (Orvis….same as above) There are others online too , but both of these retailers have a range of products to illustrate the price ranges mentioned above. Good Luck! Bob Skehan

Response:

   I’d be interested in some kind folks giving me some input as to the general start up costs involved in starting out on this adventure.  My it is very difficult- not to mention TIME consuming-to reply to- so I wouldn’t be suprised if I don’t catch anything from this post- we all have our time consrtaints- but let me thank you in advance if you are kind enough to reply.    Again, thank you for you kind consideration,            Regards, Jim

I think you’re making a good choice to get involved if flyfishing.  If nothing else, your retirement won’t be boring.   I don’t have any sage advice to pass on, but; I do have a short story. I read all of the books and learned to flyfish basically by myself.  I had been actively flyfishing (mostly once or twice a month) for about ten years.  We were visiting Reno NV. for a few months and I was really injoying the fishing in the Truckee River there.  I’d come home in the evening and tell my wife all of the great stuff I’d done and what a wonderful day I’d had.  After a while, she wanted to join in the fun.  She asked me if she minded if she learned to fish and came fishing wiht me.  I told her I would love it she joined me but, I was unsure of my ablilty to teach her to fish (I was also a little worried about the friction me teaching her to fish would cause). Being a very smart woman, she understood my position.  She got on the phone and called the fly shop in Reno (I don’t recall thier name but I think it’s the only one in town).  She explained her situation to them, and asked for help.  What they offered was simple, two days with and veteran guide and the use of thier equipment.  The first half of the first day was inside she learned the knots and terminology she needed.  After lunch, she learned to cast.  The next day, they fished. I don’t remember what she paid for this but it seems if was just a regular guide fee for two days.  After fishing, she was hooked and bought an outfit they recommended to her (actually a bargain clearout model they happened to have). After those two days of concentrated instruction, she could fish as well as I after all of my years of reading and trial and error.   It worked out perfectly for me.  I got a good fishing partner I enjoy being with and didn’t screw up a good marriagre trying to teach how to fish.  Not only that, her  being good has pushed me to learn more and take advice from everyone I see.  Since then (thats been about 12 years ago)  we have taken guided trips together and gone to classes that have interested us.  And of course, we have fished together and had some great times. So, I guess the morale of my story.  Hire someone that knows the sport to learn the basics.  Take thier advice on equipment.  If you fish in a new area hire a guide for a day and pick his brain as much as you can.  And above all, don’t get big headed and think you know more than the next guy you meet on the water.  His advice may be the one thing you need to have a good day.   Well hope my rambling didn’t go on too long, and good luck. Steve Russell

Response:

        I’d be interested in some kind folks giving me some input as to the general start up costs involved in starting out on this adventure.  My background is some infrequent spinner baiting for bass and, of course, I’ve drowned a few worms in my time.  But I’m about to retire and want to enjoy some of the finer things in life- fly fishing has always appealed to my sense of imagination as the ultimate art form regarding a combination of sport mingled with a satisfying environmental experience- so I’d like to at least try my hand at it.         I have a general understanding from years of hard experience, that in many cases using inferior equiptment may NOT give me the degree of satisfaction that is possible when you have the finest- but there is a degree of practicality involved in jumping into anything new , so what I would really be interested in is this-         Could you please, if you have the time and inclination, list some tackle and gear combinations in perhaps three general price combinations- Low,Med, Top of the line.  I’d be interested in specific brand recommendations so that I can research these.         Also, could you point me toward URL’s that have online catalog pricing or that I can order printed catalogs.         I am quite aware that this is such an open ended question that it is very difficult- not to mention TIME consuming-to reply to- so I wouldn’t be suprised if I don’t catch anything from this post- we all have our time consrtaints- but let me thank you in advance if you are kind enough to reply.         Again, thank you for you kind consideration,                 Regards, Jim

Response:

Question:

Try Sunset crater the area if really nice, and if I’m not mistaken… It is where some of the Lunar Apollo astronauts trained for a while back in the 60’s. Not too far from Flagstaff either. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I had so much success in my last post asking for this info for the Santa Fe area, that since my travel plans have now changed I thought I’d try again.  I’ll now be in the Sedona/Flagstaff area for 2 weeks in mid-October, instead of the Santa Fe area.  While there I’d like to do some backpacking – I don’t mind wandering some reasonable distance from the area to do it – S. Utah would be OK, too, for example. Does anyone have any tips?  I’m interested in something physically rigorous and wild.  I would think that I’ll have time for a couple of trips in the 3-5 day range, and may have time for a couple of day-hikes or overnighters also.  Have been to Superstition Wilderness before, so some other recommendation would be appreciated.  Ideally, I could fly-fish there, too. Any advice would be gratefully received – thanks, all.

Response:

I had so much success in my last post asking for this info for the Santa Fe area, that since my travel plans have now changed I thought I’d try again.  I’ll now be in the Sedona/Flagstaff area for 2 weeks in mid-October, instead of the Santa Fe area.  While there I’d like to do some backpacking – I don’t mind wandering some reasonable distance from the area to do it – S. Utah would be OK, too, for example.

At Peak to Peak Trail and Wilderness Links (http://home.earthlink.net/~swfry/pk2pk/p2p.html) you will find 15 web sites listed for Arizona and 11 for Utah – each with trip reports and trail descriptions! Does anyone have any tips?  I’m interested in something physically rigorous and wild.  I would think that I’ll have time for a couple of trips in the 3-5 day range, and may have time for a couple of day-hikes or overnighters also.  Have been to Superstition Wilderness before, so some other recommendation would be appreciated.  Ideally, I could fly-fish there, too. Any advice would be gratefully received – thanks, all.

–      Peak to Peak Trail and Wilderness Links   http://home.earthlink.net/~swfry/pk2pk/p2p.html

Response:

I had so much success in my last post asking for this info for the Santa Fe area, that since my travel plans have now changed I thought I’d try again.  I’ll now be in the Sedona/Flagstaff area for 2 weeks in mid-October, instead of the Santa Fe area.  While there I’d like to do some backpacking – I don’t mind wandering some reasonable distance from the area to do it – S. Utah would be OK, too, for example. Does anyone have any tips?  I’m interested in something physically rigorous and wild.  I would think that I’ll have time for a couple of trips in the 3-5 day range, and may have time for a couple of day-hikes or overnighters also.  Have been to Superstition Wilderness before, so some other recommendation would be appreciated.  Ideally, I could fly-fish there, too. Any advice would be gratefully received – thanks, all.

Response:

12 Sept 97 To hike and include fly fishing, try the Lake Poweel area with a day the North Rim of the Grand Canyon is always spectacular. Normally, I’d say spend a few days in Supai, 8 miles into the Canyon with the only Native Americans still living in the Canyon.But flash flooding makes that a bad idea just now. You might give some thought to hiking in Bryce Canyon, Zion (though they might be having flash floods too), and through the Rim country in Sedona. Lots of variety and weather conditions. Usually this would be a great time of year to come here, but the very late monsoons have made every afternoon a potential thunderstorm nightmare. In fact, yesterday, NE of Flagstaff by 60 miles there were 4 funnel clouds spotted while 2 hikers were caught in a flash flood in the Canyon. Perhaps another month will bring some sanity to our weather. Have a great time. If you need books, maps, or equipment let us know. // – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I had so much success in my last post asking for this info for the Santa Fe area, that since my travel plans have now changed I thought I’d try again.  I’ll now be in the Sedona/Flagstaff area for 2 weeks in mid-October, instead of the Santa Fe area.  While there I’d like to do some backpacking – I don’t mind wandering some reasonable distance from the area to do it – S. Utah would be OK, too, for example. Does anyone have any tips?  I’m interested in something physically rigorous and wild.  I would think that I’ll have time for a couple of trips in the 3-5 day range, and may have time for a couple of day-hikes or overnighters also.  Have been to Superstition Wilderness before, so some other recommendation would be appreciated.  Ideally, I could fly-fish there, too. Any advice would be gratefully received – thanks, all.

–           *NEXT GENERATION SuperStores* http://Music4All.com – 165,000 CDs  & Cassettes http://Video4All.com –   20,000 VHS, LDs, & DVDs http://Outdoors4All.com – Wear & Gear & Surplus http://WallHangings.com – Art & Book Galleria

Response:

Question:

Considering a 3-day solo (not counting dog) backpack trip mid june somewhere in the sierras.   Anyone with good experiences or heard of good areas for fishing and scenery?  Remote is good. thanks eric

Response:

Hi Eric-    I agree, remote is good; however, with only three days remote won’t be very. For most of the range the season will be on your side. You’ll find lots of snow, many lakes will be frozen, and not many people will be hanging out.    Try the southern Sierra northeast of Bakersfield. Hike into the Golden Trout Wilderness near the Quaking Aspen campground and hike up the Kern River (either fork). Probably not much snow, nice scene, the fishing is okay and the terrain is easy enough to cover some distance in three days. Take a snake bite kit, I was bit while fishing the area a few years back and was greatful for the kit.    -Ralph Considering a 3-day solo (not counting dog) backpack trip mid june somewhere in the sierras.   Anyone with good experiences or heard of good areas for fishing and scenery?  Remote is good. thanks eric

Ralph Cutter, California School of Flyfishing. http://www.flyline.com

Response:

Question:

I will be travelling to Michigans’ Upper Peninsula in early July and am looking for good trout rivers/streams near Ironwood (Western UP on the Wisconsin border).  Also, What are the predominant hatches in the area? Thanks in advance, DJ

Response:

I will be travelling to Michigans’ Upper Peninsula in early July and am looking for good trout rivers/streams near Ironwood (Western UP on the Wisconsin border).  Also, What are the predominant hatches in the area? Thanks in advance,

DJ – I don’t have the answers to your questions, but there is a classic book about fly-fishing the UP 50 years ago.  If you read it, you might find the trip more interesting.  It’s called Trout Madness by Robert Travers.  Have a great trip.       Gene

Response: