Question:

says… [snip] anyone who knows Jeff knows that this is roughly equivalent to Martha Stewart declaring that she’s too tired to make real mashed potatoes and that [snip] I can’t imagine anyone who hangs out in this group would appreciate being compared with Martha Stewart

I guess Jeff doesn’t like being compared to Martha Stewart any more than he likes being too tired to fish

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…actually, just thinkin ’bout martha gives me a woody… uh ken… you ain’t puttin any of this stuff in your articles are you? jeff (schwing king) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – says… [snip] anyone who knows Jeff knows that this is roughly equivalent to Martha Stewart declaring that she’s too tired to make real mashed potatoes and that [snip] I can’t imagine anyone who hangs out in this group would appreciate being compared with Martha Stewart

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… uh ken… you ain’t puttin any of this stuff in your articles are you?

Nah, ROFFians are safe for the time being. Nobody wants to buy trip reports, or not mine at any rate. — Ken Fortenberry

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rw wrote… I can’t imagine anyone who hangs out in this group would appreciate being compared with Martha Stewart That’s Fortenberry’s wet dream.

I thought Martha Stewart was just his pseudonym.  You mean there is a real Martha Stewart??  ;-) — Warren Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

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says… [snip] anyone who knows Jeff knows that this is roughly equivalent to Martha Stewart declaring that she’s too tired to make real mashed potatoes and that [snip] I can’t imagine anyone who hangs out in this group would appreciate being compared with Martha Stewart

You’ve obviously never seen Ken and Martha cast.  I have – both of ‘em.  No wonder he looks up to her.  <G — Ken Fortenberry nice TR! Winter is slowly settling into central NJ.  The most fun we’re having around here is scouring a local waterway for signs of searun brown trout.

Could be worse.  you could be stuck on a computer, dreaming about trout.  (sigh) Thanks for sharing it. Rob

Great TR BTW, but don’t let it go to your head. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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… You’ve obviously never seen Ken and Martha cast.  I have – both of ‘em.  No wonder he looks up to her.  <G

Yeah, yeah, go ahead and yuk it up about my casting but it wasn’t ME who had our poor guide wishin’ for a football helmet while piloting our drift boat down the Muskegon. Great TR BTW, but don’t let it go to your head.

Not to worry dahling, I won’t forget the little people. — Ken Fortenberry

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says… [snip] anyone who knows Jeff knows that this is roughly equivalent to Martha Stewart declaring that she’s too tired to make real mashed potatoes and that [snip]

I can’t imagine anyone who hangs out in this group would appreciate being compared with Martha Stewart — Ken Fortenberry

nice TR! Winter is slowly settling into central NJ.  The most fun we’re having around here is scouring a local waterway for signs of searun brown trout. Thanks for sharing it. Rob

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I can’t imagine anyone who hangs out in this group would appreciate being compared with Martha Stewart

That’s Fortenberry’s wet dream. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

I was headed west on I-40 early Sunday morning when I saw the sign for the Blue Ridge Parkway. In a moment of inspired spontaneity caused in no small measure by the clear blue Carolina sky and the remembrance of the past two days fishing with Zimbo and Wayno, I quickly decided to postpone my trip to Alabama one more day and fish in the Park. I’d thought about fishing with Jeff and Waldo on Sunday hoping to be shown another of their Grandfather Mountain gems but they’d both been fishing since Thursday and Jeff said he was too tired to fish another day. Now, anyone who knows Jeff knows that this is roughly equivalent to Martha Stewart declaring that she’s too tired to make real mashed potatoes and that instant mashed potato flakes are a "good thing". Simply astonishing. So when Waldo called, (and speaking of Waldo and Martha Stewart, his upscale, yuppie, downtown Morganton flyshop looks like something straight out of Martha’s design book , we decided to call it a weekend. But the Blue Ridge Parkway beckoned and I pointed the Forester towards the Park. Arrived at Oconaluftee to find the Newfound Gap Road closed for construction. So much for inspired spontaneity. I drove around the south side of the Park and fished Twenty Mile Creek that afternoon instead. The solitary hike up the Twenty Mile Creek trail on a glorious Sunday in December afforded me an opportunity to reflect on the previous days fishing and on flyfishing in general. To bowdlerize Camus, flyfishing represents, even in the depths of the impending winter, that invincible summer within me. Flyfishing challenges my intellect with its arcana of ephemeral bugs, and the contrasting physical challenges of deftly flicking a delicate stick and boulder hopping in the Blue Ridge Mountains of North Carolina nourishes my soul in ways I can hardly comprehend. That Friday with Zimbo was our first time fishing together. It was a grey, warm day and the woods around Upper Creek had the smell of moldy, fecund winter. So different from the crisp, sterile smell of a midwestern winter. Funny how different people approach a stream. We climbed down from the trail to a big rock face where we could see three trout feeding in, by Upper Creek standards, a pretty big pool. While I sat on the rock studying the pool looking for an approach, Zimbo grew impatient and slid off the rock to give it a go. It was definitely a spot for an upstream cast but short of taking a swim there was no way to get downstream of the pool. And so we fished. I with a 6′3" 3wt Hamilton ‘boo and Steve with a Cabela’s stowaway. We fished our part of the stream in precisely the three hours Waldo had predicted and then tried to return to that first pool from the downstream side but darkness intervened and we called it a day. It was a real pleasure to finally get to fish with Steve. Wayno had locked us out of the cabin and was already well into the Balvenie when we got home to Beech Mountain. Dinner was necessarily carry-out as the tourist services on Beech Mountain are dependent on the (non-existent) snow. Jeff drove off the mountain at some ungodly hour of the morning to fish with Walt while Wayno and I did the civilized thing and ate a leisurely breakfast down in Banner Elk. The weather continued to cooperate, despite assurances of rain from the weather man, and we hiked down the Elk River in the chardonnay light of late fall in the mountains. No winter here, not just yet. How in the hell do I describe fishing with Wayno ? It’s beyond my poor power. There is a joy, a mischievous, boyish glee in the way he throws himself onto a trout stream. It’s an infectious joy and you just cannot help but get caught up in the delight of flyfishing writ large upon the personal history of that Rowan County rogue. Wayno left to get back in time for the LSU-Tennessee game and Jeff and I had a large time cooking for ourselves back at Zimbo’s cabin. Remember Zimbo’s cabin ? That’s the title of this post. — Ken Fortenberry

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Question:

Check out this link for paddlefish info: http://fishing.miningco.com/recreation/fishing/cs/paddlefshsturgeon/i… m V.B. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Looking into doing some paddflishing in the glendive, MT area and wonder if anyone can give some tips.  I have checked the web site that offers ideas about tackle and equipment, just wonder the method of snagging or how one goes about it, Is this done from shore mostly? Does one cast and retrieve ? Depth of water? Time of Day?  Season as in early or late? Things of this nature. Would be much appreciated.  Thank you.  Dave

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Looking into doing some paddflishing in the glendive, MT area and wonder if anyone can give some tips.  I have checked the web site that offers ideas about tackle and equipment, just wonder the method of snagging or how one goes about it, Is this done from shore mostly? Does one cast and retrieve ? Depth of water? Time of Day?  Season as in early or late? Things of this nature. Would be much appreciated.  Thank you.  Dave

I am more familiar with a couple of areas north of Glendive.  Intake is about 35 mile north and the Confluence of the Yellowstone and Missouri is farther yet (N. Dakota fishing license required there). Also near the bridge at Sidney MT.  {If they ever give the state of Montana an enema, Sidney is where they will stick the hose.  Hell, even the birds fly over Sidney upside-down because there isn’t anything there worth shittin on.}  The fishing is done from shore. You cast out so far that you have to call the Tower for Clearance to Launch first, then "whip" your rod back, stop, retrieve the slack and repeat.  Water depth is anywhere from 2 to 15-20 feet.  Time of day doesn’t really matter.  I am not sure on when the legal season starts, but I was in that area during the last week of May last year, and fish were being caught!  I lived in that part of the country during the 80s (drove tanker trucks in the oil patch), and paddlefishing was the first riverside party of the year.  In fact, it always seemed like most of the people that were at Intake, were there more for the party than fishing.  Whatever you do, DO NOT get caught doing anything illegal, including having an un-tagged fish in your possession.  The local Judge is an avid outdoorsman and throws the book at game violations….No, I never had to appear in his court for anything – he is a good friend of mine and I know his attitude. — All fishermen are liars ‘cept you n me, and I’m starting to have doubts about you!

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Looking into doing some paddflishing in the glendive, MT area and wonder if anyone can give some tips.  I have checked the web site that offers ideas about tackle and equipment, just wonder the method of snagging or how one goes about it, Is this done from shore mostly? Does one cast and retrieve ? Depth of water? Time of Day?  Season as in early or late? Things of this nature. Would be much appreciated.  Thank you.  Dave

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Question:

I figure tying your own pays around $3 per hour.  It has to be a labor of love.

Well, it is.  And flies tied with the local knowledge angle are nearly always better.  Way better. bruce h

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4. Green Butt Skunks (If you want you can collect about 3 dozen of these, from me, by looking at low hanging branchs on the Clackamas in OR)

Hehee…Christian, if you’re interested, I’ll work out a swap with you.  I’ll send you directions to a collection of great flies hanging on the BWO-eating Boxwood, which is right upstream of the Hendrickson-eating Hardwoods and slightly west of the Adams-eating Ash (not to be confused with the Cahill-chewing Conifer) directly across from the…. Zippy Who decorates trees year round regardless of which holiday season is in effect

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On the glow bugs, I was taught my Jeff at Kaufmanns how to do that and my is it easy.  You tie the material on just like you would bar bell eyes and wind your thread as tight as you can underneath the materia, getting it to stand up as straight as you canl.  Cut it to the desired length and presto it is a ball that wraps around the hook…neat as hell…(I guess you would have to see it done, but it is very easy) Padishar Creel — who ties all his own flies except those he buys and those that actually catch fish…<g

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Do you guys tend to buy or tie your own flies?

I tie my own flies and only fish with flies I tied. No synthetic material on those flies, no CDC, no foam. Bamboo rod built by hand in my garage. Horse hair leaders. No sinkers or strike indicators, ever. Silk line, no plastic allowed. Click-n-pawl reel; disc drag is an abomination. I always put the fish on the reel, no matter how small the fish. Dry flies only, fished upstream, thank you very much. My floatant is wind and wind alone. To do anything less or anything different would be ungentlemanly. I am a gear jingo. –Steve

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<quite right and me too , snipped I am a gear jingo.

BY JOVE ! I think he’s got it ! — Ken Fortenberry

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While it’s true that most of the flies I tie wouldn’t win any prizes, the fish don’t seem to give a damn. FiddleAway

Same here.  The fish is the best judge IMHO. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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[snip] To do anything less or anything different would be ungentlemanly. I am a gear jingo.

Please keep this crap off of roff. There are streamer fishermen here who find it offensive. — Charlie…

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do you guys tend to buy or tie your own flies? I tie my own flies and only fish with flies I tied. No synthetic material on those flies, no CDC, no foam. Bamboo rod built by hand in my garage. Horse hair leaders. No sinkers or strike indicators, ever. Silk line, no plastic allowed. Click-n-pawl reel; disc drag is an abomination. I always put the fish on the reel, no matter how small the fish. Dry flies only, fished upstream, thank you very much. My floatant is wind and wind alone. To do anything less or anything different would be ungentlemanly. I am a gear jingo. –Steve

Good one Steve but CDC is natural. Willi

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Good one Steve but CDC is natural.

Regardless. Clearly you are no gentleman –Steve

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I have tied about 200 flies for the SJ in January and they’ll all fit easily in one film container  Everything for that river is easy to tie except the tiny dries, which I usually buy.  $1.50 for a size 24 single adult midge seems like a bargain.  $1.50 for a UFO on the other hand… bruce h

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when i travel, i buy locally tied flies to support local tiers and also when i see patterns i don’t know that turn my crank…but i love to tie and i tie maybe 75-80% of my flies…a few of them I even tie well. Eugene Knapik Toronto

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have tied about 200 flies for the SJ in January and they’ll all fit easily in one film container  Everything for that river is easy to tie except the tiny dries, which I usually buy.  $1.50 for a size 24 single adult midge seems like a bargain.  $1.50 for a UFO on the other hand… bruce h

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Do you guys tend to buy or tie your own flies?

Common flies (e.g. wooly buggers, royal coachmen) can be purchased on eBay or from gofishin.com for around 50 cents each. More unusual ones go as high as 75 cents.  The same White Wulffs I paid $2.75 each for at a fly shop were 75 cents on eBay. Frogs, mice, crabs, big streamers are a little more (around $1.25). I figure tying your own pays around $3 per hour.  It has to be a labor of love. Ken (to reply via email remove "zz" from address)

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Bruiser– I’m thinking of getting into tying  just save a little on foam humpies, foam black ants  and midges. Your note sounds as if midges {24} are difficult and you perfer to buy.  If I am reading you right–why are midges harder to tie if you use some type of  magnifier?Indian Joe

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Bruiser– I’m thinking of getting into tying  just save a little on foam humpies, foam black ants  and midges. Your note sounds as if midges {24} are difficult and you perfer to buy.  If I am reading you right–why are midges harder to tie if you use some type of  magnifier?Indian Joe

When tying the same pattern, small flies are much more difficult, IMO. There is very little room on the shank of the hook and a very light touch is needed. It isn’t just seeing what you are doing. Your fingers are VERY large when tying a size 24 fly. Willi

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I tie my own flies and only fish with flies I tied. … … To do anything less or anything different would be ungentlemanly. I am a gear jingo.

Steve, I have some cork, a natural product, should you ever run out. FiddleAway

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IJ,  What I meant was, I buy the tiny dries (except maybe comparadun and griffiths) and tie all the nymphs and emergers, which are super easy once you get the hang of it.  Yes I use magnification. The little dries, like tiny parachute adams, bwo parachute, and single adult midge patterns are impossible for me. bruce h

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While it’s true that most of the flies I tie wouldn’t win any prizes, the fish don’t seem to give a damn. FiddleAway

true with me as well…I don’t catch many fish whether they’re my own or store bought!

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Do you guys tend to buy or tie your own flies?

I do both. I do a bit of both, but seems like I buy quite of few of the patterns that I can’t create worth a damn.

I’m not sure of your point (or question).  The only way to get better is practice, but if you don’t want to get better (or even tie, and there’s nothing wrong with either), I see nothing "wrong" with buying. If you only use a few flies of "quite (a) few..patterns," you’re probably better off cost-wise in buying them, esp. if they are patterns that utilize the more-expensive materials.  IMO, tying is more a related "hobby" as opposed to a cost-saving measure (there are a few exceptions).  Plus, it gives you a good, relatively inexpensive excuse to frequent fly shops in that you truly are buying essential FF’ing items – whether you buy ‘em or tie ‘em, you gotta have ‘em. TC, R

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Do you guys tend to buy or tie your own flies? I do a bit of both, but seems like I buy quite of few of the patterns that I can’t create worth a damn.

While it’s true that most of the flies I tie wouldn’t win any prizes, the fish don’t seem to give a damn. FiddleAway

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I tie all my flies except in these situations: 1. I do not have the materials ( I have been collecting alot of material so this does not happen often ) 2. I have never tied that fly, but hear it’s the ‘go to’ fly for my next fishing adventure. I’ll buy one to copy. 3. Egg patterns ( I have not figured out glo-bugs and I’m not pouring plastics) Flies I really enjoy tying: 1. Soft Hackles (that and they work great) 2. Balsa wood bass poppers 3. Spun deer hair flies Flies I end up tying most of the time: 1. Soft Hackles 2. Adams 3. Wolly Buggers 4. Green Butt Skunks (If you want you can collect about 3 dozen of these, from me, by looking at low hanging branchs on the Clackamas in OR)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do you guys tend to buy or tie your own flies? I do a bit of both, but seems like I buy quite of few of the patterns that I can’t create worth a damn.

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I tie virtually all my own flies and love doing so, there are occasions in the peak of the season where I am unable to keep up and need to restock from commercial supplies. Clark Guided Flyfishing in paradise! http://www.dryflynz.cjb.net

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I tie most flys I use often, like bead heads and wooly buggers..I buy most dries, i’m not a very good tyer. Tim Apple Do you guys tend to buy or tie your own flies? I do a bit of both, but seems like I buy quite of few of the patterns that I can’t create worth a damn.

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Do you guys tend to buy or tie your own flies? I do a bit of both, but seems like I buy quite of few of the patterns that I can’t create worth a damn.

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I tie most flys I use often, like bead heads and wooly buggers..I buy most dries, i’m not a very good tyer. Tim Apple

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do you guys tend to buy or tie your own flies? I do a bit of both, but seems like I buy quite of few of the patterns that I can’t create worth a damn.

Response:

Do you guys tend to buy or tie your own flies?

Personally, I tie my own. I do a bit of both, but seems like I buy quite of few of the patterns that I can’t create worth a damn.

I buy one as an example to take home as an aid so that I can tie my own. I have this thing about not fishing with flies I didn’t tie myself.  I seldom use flies that were either bought or given to me by a friend unless I am totally out of the pattern and have nothing that will substitute. When I met Lou Teletski in Yellowstone we had a little "mini-fly swap" which was pretty cool.  It was fun seeing some of the patterns I have heard many of the ROFFians back east talk about that are not popular out here.  I stuck the flies in my collection of patterns, which I keep as examples, and have since tied a few of my own duplicates.  It is kind of nice doing it this way because you always have the original example pattern and still get the pleasure of tying/using your own flies.  The more I practice, the better the pattern turns out and eventually I can make a halfway decent replica. — Warren www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

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Harry Mason: For one thing the big bugs show the mistakes in a much larger format  :-) Proportion is displayed in all its glaring reality much more in larger bugs. One can cheat on big flies.

Don’t you mean "one can NOT cheat on big flies"?  After receiving a book on Carrie Stevens, I went out and bought all the feathers and stuff to tie her flies.  Boy, do little mistakes show up as big ones when you are tying a size 2  8x.  I am keeping the 1st Grey Ghost and Rapid River that I have tied. Hopefully, somewhere down the line, I will improve, especially with the proportions.  But, right now, I am struggling.  I want these to be perfect, and I doubt I have the knowledge/skill at this point. Dave LaCourse

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Anything with knotted Pheasant tail legs. I have to have a few Islay malts first. Maybe that’s the problem.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know we all would rather tye our flies than buy them for a  number of reasons, but…… What six bugs would you  like  to purchase because you find tying them a hassle or time consuming or both or what ever ?  I’ll start… 1   Royal Wullf 2   Kauffman stones 3   small humpy 4   no hackles 5   prince….my fav 6   muddler style flies Harry Mason www.troutflies.com

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When I go on an extended trip, I always take along my tieing gear. When I get there (wherever) there always seems to be one fly or another  that’s hot that week, and it’s usually something I don’t have in my 500+ on-hand.   The question is generally, "Do I want to tie flies, or do I want to fish?"   Since I usually fish from dawn to dusk, I end up buying them, regardless of how easy they may be to tie. There’s nothing that I buy instead of tie because of the difficulty. That doesn’t mean mine will turn out as well, however… As a germane aside, my sister is an expert fly tier, as well as an excellent fly fisher.  She tied every evening for years, while watching t.v., tackling some of the most difficult for the challenge.   Then her house burned up in the Oakland fire and she lost over 4,000 unfished flies.   The insurance comany tried to pay her for the hooks, feathers, etc., but finally did settle up for replacement value. Max Before you buy.

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I know we all would rather tye our flies than buy them for a  number of reasons, but…… What six bugs would you  like  to purchase because you find tying them a hassle or time consuming or both or what ever ?

I’m pretty new at this tying thing, so for me it comes down to anything with hackle, anything with wings, and anything with dubbing.  :-)   I’m getting better, though (I’ve just about got this GRW thing <g). Joe F.

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What six bugs would you  like  to purchase because you find tying them a hassle or time consuming or both or what ever ?  

spun deer hair flies microfibbet tails extended bodied mayflies Mu

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How ’bout #20 Tricos?  I bought a bunch from Trout Fitters in Fergus. The things are so small, I had one sitting here on my desk, and it just disappeared on me…  I have never had any success with them mind you, but they sure are neat to look at!  

Response:

Mike;   I found a few tyers like that in England.  Incredible flies at a great price.  Unfortunately, I’m pretty tight-fisted right now and can’t buy a fly unless I’m using it as a model.  Flies that I would rather have made  -    Tupp’s Indespensible (I don’t have a good source for a ram’s (tupp) scrotum hairs.    Frank’s Fightin’ Craw – I get tired when I’m on the 60th fly of the evening.  Can’t we just ship them off to Thailand for production?    Classic salmon flies – I got to sit down and watch Poul Jorgensen tie at a Partridge of Redditch event for 2 hours.  It was awesome.  I tried to replicate his efforts and felt woefully inadequate.    First flies on the new water – need model flies to figure out the pattern.  What does a White Miller Caddis look like if you’ve never seen it and have to get ready for the hatch?    Burnt wing flies – you know how many decent wings I’ve torched trying to do this?  You know what this smells like?    "The fly that the guy at the bottom of the pool is cleaning up with while I’m being skunked."  If some one came along the bank and said "hey, want what he’s using?  20 bucks!"  I would be on him like buzzards on the renderin’ wagon.  Its a testosterone thing.  Why did you buy that new Ford 350 pick’em-up wid da V-8 and when your wife would have been happy with a new Ford Focus?  Its a testosterone thing.  Why do you have tools in your work room that most people just rent?  Its a testosterone thing.  Why do you wanna jump Anna Nichole Smith’s bones?  Hell with testosterone, if you don’t you be dead.               Frank "stream of conciousness" Reid Before you buy.

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How ’bout #20 Tricos?  I bought a bunch from Trout Fitters in Fergus. The things are so small, I had one sitting here on my desk, and it just disappeared on me…  I have never had any success with them mind you, but they sure are neat to look at!

______  Probably kidnapped and raped by real Tricos.  Those little bugs are real gang bangers. Those little suckers can catch you the largest trout of your life on a dry Ian.  I wish we could get together on a river or three I have in mind regarding these little devils. It is perhaps the most exciting kind of dry fly fishing any man could hope for, my friend. — Mr.Gink "the saga continues"   http://www.gink.com/

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For me, anything smaller that 18, I would rather buy, my ole eyes can’t take it much any more.  I love fishing the tiny fly in the tiny stream. chris

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I know we all would rather tye our flies than buy them for a  number of reasons, but…… What six bugs would you  like  to purchase because you find tying them a hassle or time consuming or both or what ever ?    I’ll start… 1   Royal Wullf 2   Kauffman stones 3   small humpy 4   no hackles 5   prince….my fav 6   muddler style flies Harry Mason www.troutflies.com

Response:

1.  Dave’s Hopper, 2. Dave’s Hopper…6. Dave’s Hopper Lou

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know we all would rather tye our flies than buy them for a  number of reasons, but…… What six bugs would you  like  to purchase because you find tying them a hassle or time consuming or both or what ever ?  I’ll start… 1   Royal Wullf 2   Kauffman stones 3   small humpy 4   no hackles 5   prince….my fav 6   muddler style flies Harry Mason www.troutflies.com

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Response:

Those of us that do tye and there lots of reasons not to  :-) do have patterns that we just hate . Clipped  Deer hair seems to head the list. Small bugs are intimidating to some but IMO they can and usually are a  easier to build than the big ones. For one thing the big bugs show the mistakes in a much larger format  :-) Proportion is displayed in all its glaring reality much more in larger bugs. One can cheat on big flies. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -How ’bout #20 Tricos?  I bought a bunch from Trout Fitters in Fergus. The things are so small, I had one sitting here on my desk, and it just disappeared on me…  I have never had any success with them mind you, but they sure are neat to look at!  

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<< I know we all would rather tye our flies than buy them for a  number of reasons, but…… I guess I am an odd duck in the world of fly fishing but I hate tying flies.  I love building rods and wrapping the guides but fly tying drives me nuts.   For years I forced myself to tie due to the high prices in the fly shops but I finally found a store that sells high quality flies for .50 each.  For the first time in years, my fly box is full of dry flys of every size shape and color.  I have enjoyed fishing this a lot more because I don’t go through the pre-trip tying grind. So I guess my vote is for all of them. Mike

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Easy, anything with stacked, compressed and clipped deer hair.  I hate spinning and clipping deer hair – the fly usually ends up looking like shit.  I can never get it compressed enough without bending the hook or breaking something and when I clip it, it looks like it just lost a fight with a chainsaw. Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Question:

You might want to fish Cliff and Wade lake from that float tube. Schuh-fly

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Brian Nelson writes:

(snip good info) With closer inspection, one will find the seams and riffles just like any other freestone, only on a larger, more subtle, scale.

Thank you, Brian.  You have confirmed what I thought they might be like.  I am sure there are raging rivers out there, especially during run-off.  Thanks again. Dave LaCourse

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers, ranging from small to large.   The absence of rapids is obvious.  In fact, in most of the pix, the water looks like it could be a pond or lake. Now, I am sure there is a current, otherwise it wouldn’t be a river <g.  But I get the impression that they are slow moving. Western Montana topography is characterized by what is called the Broad Valley Rockies. These glacially-carved u-shaped valleys are actually fairly easy gradient (not too steep). This results in rivers which typically are not raging torrents as some people may envision the northern Rockies. The Clark Fork (the largest of the rivers) and the Big Hole, with exceptions, are fairly ‘flat’ rivers. They are still freestone and

subsequently do flood and get scary during runoff, but during the low flow times, are great rivers for getting LONG drifts with a fly. The water is moving at 3 to 5 miles an hour but it is deceiving when it is a flat stretch. With closer inspection, one will find the seams and riffles just like any other

freestone, only on a larger, more subtle, scale. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm 406-626-4022

Any time you want to floattube rivers just remember how much of you is underwater!! * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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The absolute, definitive, conclusive answer is, "It depends."  I have fished all of the rivers that you mentioned (not that it makes me an expert or anything), and I have to say that it depends on where you look and when you look there.  Henry’s Fork is a big open flat down on the Railroad Ranch section, but is whitewater a few miles upstream in Box Canyon.  Similarly, the Big Hole is pretty easy to wade in August, but is a raging torrent in June.  I fished the Stillwater last August, and it was a pretty gentle river at the time, but has a reputation for killing even expert whitewater kayakers during higher water. This is a broad generalization, but seems to be true for most of the rivers that I fish:  The downstream section is big, flat, and slow;  flows through a wide flat valley with a major highway running nearby, produces the biggest fish, and attracts the most fishermen, and is featured regularly in the flyfishing magazines.  The land is mostly privately owned, but there is usually good public access. The upper section is steeper, faster, and has more whitewater.  It is probably on Forest Service land, but it may be tricky finding a public access point. The fish are smaller and easier to catch, and you have to drive on some bad gravel road and possibly do some hiking to get to the river, so not as many fisherman (or photographers) get there. So anyway, if whitewater is what you like, you can find it on most of the rivers if you know where to look. Kevin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers, ranging from small to large.   The absence of rapids is obvious.  In fact, in most of the pix, the water looks like it could be a pond or lake.  Now, I am sure there is a current, otherwise it wouldn’t be a river <g.  But I get the impression that they are slow moving.  You can even float tube some of them.  If you float tubed the Rapid River in Maine, site of this year’s roff Maine Clave, you probably would die!  <g  On much  of the Rapid, a drag free drift will last but a few seconds, but on some of this Montana water, it *looks* like you can get a big long drift.  The difference is even greater when you consider a nymph drift.  Some of the pix show riffles and moderate "fast water", but nothing like I am used to. Now, I don’t mean to start a fight — this ain’t no flame baited post.  I would like to hear from you folks that fish these waters.  I will be at the Western Clave and will probably have my youngest grandson.  I am planning on fishing all of this water, and more if we can fit it in. Dave LaCourse

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I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers, ranging from small to large.  

Dave, The only one I can talk about is the Henry’s Fork a.k.a. the North Fork (of the Snake).  It is a widely varying river.  It is true that there are places with slow moving water, such as on the Railroad Ranch section and much of the water upstream to Last Chance.  Above this, in Box Canyon, the water is considerably faster.  The water below Ashton Dam is not fast, but is very braided with little foam bubbles that are hard to distinguish from a white post on a parachute Adams <g.  In between these two locations you have Upper and Lower Mesa Falls, which are definitely fast!  They also provide an outstanding view, well worth the drive to see them.  There is a scenic loop off the highway between Island Park and Last Chance which will take you to the falls. I know this isn’t a definitive "fast"or "slow" answer, but the nature of the river changes frequently, depending mostly on the elevation gradient.  Much of the Henry’s Fork is wadeable, unlike the South Fork of the Snake which is a big, deep river.  If you come down to Island Park, Take a side trip to Big Springs, which is the headwaters of the Henry’s Fork.  You can drive to where the water bubbles out of the ground.  There are usually some very large trout there that you can throw worms to (no fishing allowed).  If you have any questions I can answer, let me know. Jeff

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Dave,    After the rivers in Montana leave the mountains the gradient is fairly low as they flow east  Many of the rivers in Idaho have cut such deep canyons with sheer walls it scares the hell out of you when you drive over an old wooden bridge and look down. Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers, ranging from small to large.   The absence of rapids is obvious.  In fact, in most of the pix, the water looks like it could be a pond or lake.  Now, I am sure there is a current, otherwise it wouldn’t be a river <g.  But I get the impression that they are slow moving.  You can even float tube some of them.  If you float tubed the Rapid River in Maine, site of this year’s roff Maine Clave, you probably would die!  <g  On much  of the Rapid, a drag free drift will last but a few seconds, but on some of this Montana water, it *looks* like you can get a big long drift.  The difference is even greater when you consider a nymph drift.  Some of the pix show riffles and moderate "fast water", but nothing like I am used to. Now, I don’t mean to start a fight — this ain’t no flame baited post.  I would like to hear from you folks that fish these waters.  I will be at the Western Clave and will probably have my youngest grandson.  I am planning on fishing all of this water, and more if we can fit it in. Dave LaCourse

Response:

I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers, ranging from small to large.   The absence of rapids is obvious.  In fact, in most of the pix, the water looks like it could be a pond or lake.  Now, I am sure there is a current, otherwise it wouldn’t be a river <g.  But I get the impression that they are slow moving.  You can even float tube some of them.  If you float tubed the Rapid River in Maine, site of this year’s roff Maine Clave, you probably would die!  <g  On much  of the Rapid, a drag free drift will last but a few seconds, but on some of this Montana water, it *looks* like you can get a big long drift.  The difference is even greater when you consider a nymph drift.  Some of the pix show riffles and moderate "fast water", but nothing like I am used to. Now, I don’t mean to start a fight — this ain’t no flame baited post.  I would like to hear from you folks that fish these waters.  I will be at the Western Clave and will probably have my youngest grandson.  I am planning on fishing all of this water, and more if we can fit it in. Dave LaCourse

Response:

Jeff Shriver writes:

(good descriptions deletes for brev) If you have any questions I can answer, let me know.

Thanks, Jeff.  I am facinated by what I am seeing in these books.  I’ve had them for years and never really looked at them.  Again, thanks.   Dave LaCourse

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I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers, ranging from small to large.

You’ve already got the right response on the Henry’s Fork from other postings.  The Madison River below Quake Lake is known as the "50 mile riffle."   It is very swift and can be difficult to wade.   The Clark Fork is a free stone river, too.  I’d say keep the float tube in the car, except for Quake Lake and Henry’s Lake.

Response:

I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers, ranging from small to large. You’ve already got the right response on the Henry’s Fork from other postings. The Madison River below Quake Lake is known as the "50 mile riffle."   It is very swift and can be difficult to wade.

I was about to post the same. I’ve fished the Madison a few times, always well past any sort of seasonal runoff, and once you get past the campground down to around Rt87 and the old Stagger Ranch section, there’s miles of bubbly stuff that can make drifting a fly a challenge. Trying to think of a section of the Rapid to compare it to…the closest I can think of is the water directly below Lower Dam up to the turn at the Summer House (and not the chub water along the north bank – I mean the roily stuff along the south bank). btw: If you don’t have one of those SOSuspenders Dave, I’d think seriously about investing in the larger one before you try wading the Madison… /daytripper

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I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers …You can even float tube some of them.

Montana rivers are slow moving? Well maybe.   Dangerously fast white water is seldom good trout habitat. But that doesn’t mean drifting or float tubing Montana rivers is is safe for beginners. Nearly every river on your list does have dangerous stretches you need to know about. Log jams and irrigation dams kill more amateur floaters than white water. Note too that drifting a river is often more dangerous at low water that at high water because you have so little room to maneuver when drifting past tangles of cottonwood logs. I see more inexperienced, fool-hardy floaters every year. During the salmon fly hatch on the Big Hole in 1979 close to 20 driftboats where sunk and bashed to shreds at Brown’s Bridge alone. — /* Sandy Pittendrigh                  –oO0  * http://montana-riverboats.com  */

Response:

writes: Montana rivers are slow moving? Well maybe.   Dangerously fast white water is seldom good trout habitat.

Uh, where did I say it WAS good trout habitat.  From what I have seen in the River Journal books, the water IS slow moving, meadering thru meadows without very many rapids.   But that doesn’t mean drifting or float tubing Montana rivers is is safe for beginners.

Never said it was, Sandy. Never even said I was going to float tube.  If I bring my float tubes, I will used them on ponds/lakes.  What I did say was that the books show float tubers in very placid water.  Three are shown on the Clark Fork in what looks like a pond, not a raging river. Nearly every river on your list does have dangerous stretches you need to know about.

That’s why I have Warren.  <g Log jams and irrigation dams kill more amateur floaters than white water. Note too that drifting a river is often more dangerous at low water that at high water because you have so little room to maneuver when drifting past tangles of cottonwood logs. I see more inexperienced, fool-hardy floaters every year. During the salmon fly hatch on the Big Hole in 1979 close to 20 driftboats where sunk and bashed to shreds at Brown’s Bridge alone.

Dave L.  (not planning on floating anything except a home-tie)      —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free Usenet News via the Web  —–      —–  http://newsone.net/ —  Discussions on every subject. —–    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts

Response:

I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers, ranging from small to large.   The absence of rapids is obvious.  In fact, in most of the pix, the water looks like it could be a pond or lake.  Now, I am sure there is a current, otherwise it wouldn’t be a river <g.  But I get the impression that they are slow moving.

Western Montana topography is characterized by what is called the Broad Valley Rockies. These glacially-carved u-shaped valleys are actually fairly easy gradient (not too steep). This results in rivers which typically are not raging torrents as some people may envision the northern Rockies. The Clark Fork (the largest of the rivers) and the Big Hole, with exceptions, are fairly ‘flat’ rivers. They are still freestone and subsequently do flood and get scary during runoff, but during the low flow times, are great rivers for getting LONG drifts with a fly. The water is moving at 3 to 5 miles an hour but it is deceiving when it is a flat stretch. With closer inspection, one will find the seams and riffles just like any other freestone, only on a larger, more subtle, scale. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm 406-626-4022

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Question:

They will maul rabbit strip flies that act like sluggos–tubers and sluggo flies and double-bunnies–as well as buck-n-bunnies.  I’d keep my dahlbergs for something a bit less toothy. We catch a lot of pickerel on flies here even after the hardware anglers have been through because the neutral-bouyancy fly seems to bring them on.  Good luck. d

Response:

I’m brand new to fly-fishing, so I’ve only been lurking at this ng for a month or so (hadda wait for Jon Ernst to leave before I even *dared* make a post).  Anyway, I live right by a nasty little pond in Northern Florida, said pond dominated by some pretty large chain pickerel and Florida gar.  I’m very interested in tangling with these thugs, so I’m looking for some recommendations on the type of fly I should use, as well as sage words about leaders/tippets.  

In one of his books, John Geirach writes about catching gar on flyrods. Apparently, some guys make "flies" made up of frayed out pieces of nylon rope – no hooks!  It seems that you can’t "hook" a gar – their jaws are too bony.  If they strike the frayed rope, it will tangle around their teeth and you can haul them in.  What you do after you haul them in, I can’t say.  I actually tried this in the Outer Banks (yes, their are gar there) but I didn’t get any strikes.  Oh, well, John didn’t catch any either.

Response:

Try Dalberg Divers. I’m brand new to fly-fishing, so I’ve only been lurking at this ng for a month or so (hadda wait for Jon Ernst to leave before I even *dared* make a post).  Anyway, I live right by a nasty little pond in Northern Florida, said pond dominated by some pretty large chain pickerel and Florida gar.  I’m very interested in tangling with these thugs, so I’m looking for some recommendations on the type of fly I should use, as well as sage words about leaders/tippets.  

Divers would probably be as good as anything – and just about anything *large* would probably work. While actually fishing for smallies, I’ve caught pickerel on everything from wool headed rabbits to deer hair mice. With them damn gar around, a bite guard of some kind would probably be warranted. 100 pound Mason, or even plastic coated stranded stainless wire might be a good idea – if you want to get through the day without losing too many of those large flies… Cheers! /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.               Alpha Server Engineering < < Parker Street Campus                      Maynard, Massachusetts < < !!NOTE: Remove the "XX" from my address to respond by email!!  < <<<<<<<<<<<<<< AMA 548313 <<<<<<<<<<<<<< Disclaimer: Opinion and content is mine alone, and unlikely to be                     shared by my employer, etc…

Response:

Try Dalberg Divers. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Howdy, I’m brand new to fly-fishing, so I’ve only been lurking at this ng for a month or so (hadda wait for Jon Ernst to leave before I even *dared* make a post).  Anyway, I live right by a nasty little pond in Northern Florida, said pond dominated by some pretty large chain pickerel and Florida gar.  I’m very interested in tangling with these thugs, so I’m looking for some recommendations on the type of fly I should use, as well as sage words about leaders/tippets.   TIA, Mark to reply, remove "killuce" from address.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Howdy, I’m brand new to fly-fishing, so I’ve only been lurking at this ng for a month or so (hadda wait for Jon Ernst to leave before I even *dared* make a post).  Anyway, I live right by a nasty little pond in Northern Florida, said pond dominated by some pretty large chain pickerel and Florida gar.  I’m very interested in tangling with these thugs, so I’m looking for some recommendations on the type of fly I should use, as well as sage words about leaders/tippets.   TIA, Mark to reply, remove "killuce" from address.

Used to catch all kinds of pickerel all kinds of ways as a kid, including on fly.  I don’t think there is anything they won’t hit.  Try a Wooly Bugger or a bass  popper.  Use about 30 pound clear mono for a bite guard (stay away from wire, they won’t hit) and don’t be afraid to move it around a bit. Good Luck — Gordon Churchill Flyfish NC http://www.planet-nc.com/flyfishnc/ Striped Bass on the Roanoke River, Hybrids on Jordan Lake, Largemouths on surface.  Pickup and dropoff in Research Triangle Park

Response:

Howdy, I’m brand new to fly-fishing, so I’ve only been lurking at this ng for a month or so (hadda wait for Jon Ernst to leave before I even *dared* make a post).  Anyway, I live right by a nasty little pond in Northern Florida, said pond dominated by some pretty large chain pickerel and Florida gar.  I’m very interested in tangling with these thugs, so I’m looking for some recommendations on the type of fly I should use, as well as sage words about leaders/tippets.   TIA, Mark to reply, remove "killuce" from address.

Response:

Question:

Vinsel) writes: This brings up the question for the cane rod builders: what was the impregnating that was popular on many rods in the seventies – Orvis, Leonard, Powell…  Was that a pressurized epoxy system?  Why do so few makers do this today?  I would expect that it takes large and expensive equipment and would also stiffen the action of the rod. Anyone with more info?

The impregnation system that Orvis used and still uses is a phenolic resin.  Originally it was bakelite, in fact some of the rods from 1946 said "Bakelite Impregnated".  It’s changed a little since then, but not much.   Wes Jordan was the first rod maker to successfully apply impregnation to bamboo rods in 1946.  It drove him nuts during World War II that Orvis could make impregnated bamboo ski poles for the ski troops for the war effort that were impervious to heat and moisture and yet could not produce a bamboo rod with predictable action with the same process.  He finally figured out that by flaming the rod to remove most of the moisture content, building the rod completely and by cooking it at precisely controlled temperatures in the phenolic resin for a couple of days he could impregnate the rod with the resin and achieve predictable results. Then, to demonstrate that the impregnated rod was impervious to weather and for advertisement purposes, he would freeze a rod in a 50 lb. block of ice and then pour boiling water over the ice until the it melted away from the rod.  In 1946 there were no varnishes that could withstand this treatment. If the impregnation process was improperly done it could make the rod heavy and "loggy".  Properly done, the impregnation goes into the cane a few thousandths of an inch and replaces the residual moisuture usually found in the power fibers.The heat curing process (originally flamed, now done with a heat box) makes the rod stiffer and allows it to be impregnated with the resin.  Without the heat curing process, there is too much moisture in the bamboo to impregnate the rod successfully. Impregnating the rod is an extra step and although it eliminates the varnishing process, it is more time consuming than varnishing and  If you don’t control the heat of the phenolic resin precisely, you ruin the rod. Action of the rod is more dependant on the design of the rod not the impregnation of it.  If you pick up an Orvis "Wes Jordan era" rod it will be almost mahogany in color from the flaming and faster in action than the rods currently produced.  This is due in large part to the preference of the rod designer Wes Jordan.  Howard Steare, who worked with Wes and took over rod production after Wes Jordan retired, preferred a higher moisture content in the bamboo which resulted in a slower action.  Howard retired a couple of years ago and for the first time in many years Orvis is producing 3 new bamboo rods for 1997 with reportedly crisper and quicker actions.  I’ll be curious to get them in my hands. You can find some more info on this at the Orvis web site (www.orvis.com) under the "timeline" part of the Orvis story section.  You can jump right to it at the following url "http://www.alloutdoors.com/orvis/Story/Impregbamb.html"  There is also a book out about Wes Jordan from Centennial Press that has a lot more info.                                         Hope this helps,                                                Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

Response:

[stuff deleted] This brings up the question for the cane rod builders: what was the impregnating that was popular on many rods in the seventies – Orvis, Leonard, Powell…  Was that a pressurized epoxy system?  Why do so few makers do this today? Impregnating the rod is a way a few manufacturers finish their rods, but in general, impregnation slows down the action of a rod. The air spaces get filled with epoxy, adding to the weight, thus slowing down the action. There is a saying that Orvis makes their rods to last, not to cast.

Well, almost.  I worked for Leonard in the late 70s.  The Duracane impregnated rod blanks were made for Leonard to their specs in England. The stuff used was bakelite, if I remember correctly.  I’m pretty sure it wasn’t epoxy.  As for weight, the impregnated rods were pretty close to the weight of the varnished rods, they just didn’t have as complex tapers, as thin tips, or as fancy reelseats, although they did have silk wraps, very nice wood reelseats, and the same nickel- silver ferrules.  I always sort of wished I had bought a Duracane 7′ 4 wt. since they cast beautifully.  In fact, the entire Duracane line was very, very nice. As for impregnation, it only soaks in a few thousands of an inch, hardly enough to affect the action in any really meaningful way. As for Orvis, if you don’t like the way their rods cast, it’s because of the design, not because of the impregnating.  Orvis rods have very slow tapers.  This is because that’s how they want them.  It would take a little more work to make a rod with a very thin tip, but in general, Orvis cane rods have slow actions because that’s how they were designed. Barry Smith

Response:

I don’t think epoxy varnish is correct. I am not familiar with epoxy varnish but in general epoxies are two-part systems that you mix, and when they solidify they are very difficult to remove. Most epoxies are clouded and weakened by UV light so I don’t think this is right for an overall coating, unless you were going to varnish over the epoxy (getting pretty thick by now…)

You are right, most epoxies are unsuitable for coating, although as coating for guide wraps they work fine. I think you want a marine-grade spar varnish, which would be phenolic or polyurethane based, with a UV inhibitor.  That way you can remove it with alcohol and steel wool to restore every twenty years or so.

There are several ways to finish a cane rod. Tung oil, spar varnish, or polyurethane varnish can be used. Polyurethane is probably the most resistant to water, solvents, weather, etc., but the hardest to refinish if it ever becomes neccesary to do so. About the only way to remove polyurethane is to sand it off. This brings up the question for the cane rod builders: what was the impregnating that was popular on many rods in the seventies – Orvis, Leonard, Powell…  Was that a pressurized epoxy system?  Why do so few makers do this today?  I would expect that it takes large and expensive equipment and would also stiffen the action of the rod. Anyone with more info?

Impregnating the rod is a way a few manufacturers finish their rods, but in general, impregnation slows down the action of a rod. The air spaces get filled with epoxy, adding to the weight, thus slowing down the action. There is a saying that Orvis makes their rods to last, not to cast. Darryl Hayashida

Response:

… you can improve the stick’s water resistance by a couple of thin coats of epoxy varnish…

I don’t think epoxy varnish is correct. I am not familiar with epoxy varnish but in general epoxies are two-part systems that you mix, and when they solidify they are very difficult to remove. Most epoxies are clouded and weakened by UV light so I don’t think this is right for an overall coating, unless you were going to varnish over the epoxy (getting pretty thick by now…) I think you want a marine-grade spar varnish, which would be phenolic or polyurethane based, with a UV inhibitor.  That way you can remove it with alcohol and steel wool to restore every twenty years or so. This brings up the question for the cane rod builders: what was the impregnating that was popular on many rods in the seventies – Orvis, Leonard, Powell…  Was that a pressurized epoxy system?  Why do so few makers do this today?  I would expect that it takes large and expensive equipment and would also stiffen the action of the rod. Anyone with more info? Mark Vinsel http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.html

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I found an old cane rod that hasn’t much care recently.  One wrap is starting to loosen.  What solution does one use on the wraps to hold them and what does one put on the cane to waterproof it? Thanks

Response:

I found an old cane rod that hasn’t much care recently.  One wrap is starting to loosen.  What solution does one use on the wraps to hold them and what does one put on the cane to waterproof it?

Don’t put adhesives on loose wrap.  Carefully cut the old whipping off and redo it afresh.  (If one has already loosened, another is going to soon, and every handy angler needs to know how to make a neat whipping.  It’s not difficult.) If you know this is a good stick, you might as well refinish it throughout, whipping on new (rustproof) guides correctly spaced and sized.  If you remove everything except ferrules and handle, you can improve the stick’s water resistance by a couple of thin coats of epoxy varnish, before you reattach guides (at least 2 weeks later, to be sure the varnish is totally dry.) — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Question:

I am going to the Glacier Park area the 1st week of August. I will be on the west side near Polebridge for 3 days, and then move to a spot near East Glacier.  I wonder if anyone who has fished these areas can give me a hint as to what to expect, where to fish, what to use, etc. I will be wading, but will bring my float tube as well. Many thanks, Mark

Response:

I am going to the Glacier Park area the 1st week of August. I will be on the west side near Polebridge for 3 days, and then move to a spot near East Glacier.  I wonder if anyone who has fished these areas can give me a hint as to what to expect, where to fish, what to use, etc. I will be wading, but will bring my float tube as well.

Hi Mark Good fishing in the North Fork of the Flathead.  Also if you are going to be in the East Glacier area you should go fish the lakes on the Blackfeet Indian Reservation near Browning.  They are awesome. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

Response:

check with people at http://www.cyberport.net/ecs/wwater/gnwwater.html or http://www.cyberport.net/ecs/troutski/troutski.html These people will know — Electronic Cottage Services http://www.cyberport.net/ecs/lakeco/business/ecs/ecshome.html PO Box 81 Polson, MT 59860 406-887-2899

Response:

Question:

I am a commercial fisherman. I fish 8 hours a day in Naples, Florida. Recently, I found a product that has helped my commercial fishing. KAILUME LIGHTSTICKS (http://www.lightsticks.com) has developed a product that will blow your mind away. My daily catch has tripled since I’ve used Kailume’ 1 inch and 6 inch lightsticks. Check out the site and see for yourself…YOU WILL NEVER FISH THE SAME AGAIN!! Happy fishin’ fellas!! Brian Isn’t fishing with lights illegal in most states? Dan

Isn’t fishing for customers inappropriate in most news groups? Jim

Response:

I am a commercial fisherman. I fish 8 hours a day in Naples, Florida. Recently, I found a product that has helped my commercial fishing. KAILUME LIGHTSTICKS (http://www.lightsticks.com) has developed a product that will blow your mind away. My daily catch has tripled since I’ve used Kailume’ 1 inch and 6 inch lightsticks. Check out the site and see for yourself…YOU WILL NEVER FISH THE SAME AGAIN!! Happy fishin’ fellas!! Brian

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I am a commercial spamerman. I spam 8 hours a day in Naples, Florida. Recently, I found a product that has helped my commercial spaming. KAILUME SPAM (http://www.spam.com) has developed a product that will blow your mind away. My daily catch has tripled since I’ve used Kailume’ 1 inch and 6 inch spamsticks. Check out the site and see for yourself…YOU WILL NEVER SPAM THE SAME AGAIN!! Happy spamin’ fellas!! Brian

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: I am a commercial fisherman. I fish 8 hours a day in Naples, Florida. : Recently, I found a product that has helped my commercial fishing. : KAILUME LIGHTSTICKS (http://www.lightsticks.com) has developed a : product that will blow your mind away. My daily catch has tripled since : I’ve used Kailume’ 1 inch and 6 inch lightsticks. Check out the site : and see for yourself…YOU WILL NEVER FISH THE SAME AGAIN!! Okay, genius, tell me a good fly that uses a 6" Cyalume stick…

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I am a commercial fisherman. I fish 8 hours a day in Naples, Florida. Recently, I found a product that has helped my commercial fishing. KAILUME LIGHTSTICKS (http://www.lightsticks.com) has developed a product that will blow your mind away. My daily catch has tripled since I’ve used Kailume’ 1 inch and 6 inch lightsticks. Check out the site and see for yourself…YOU WILL NEVER FISH THE SAME AGAIN!! Happy fishin’ fellas!! Brian

Isn’t fishing with lights illegal in most states? Dan

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: : Isn’t fishing for customers inappropriate in most news groups? : : Jim : Not if you use a LIGHTSTICK, and a little spam.   just kidding  :) : : : : : : : : : : — — Bruce Barnard

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…YOU WILL NEVER FISH THE SAME AGAIN!! Okay, genius, tell me a good fly that uses a 6" Cyalume stick…

See above. . . Jim Boise

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am a commercial fisherman. I fish 8 hours a day in Naples, Florida. Recently, I found a product that has helped my commercial fishing. KAILUME LIGHTSTICKS (http://www.lightsticks.com) has developed a product that will blow your mind away. My daily catch has tripled since I’ve used Kailume’ 1 inch and 6 inch lightsticks. Check out the site and see for yourself…YOU WILL NEVER FISH THE SAME AGAIN!! Happy fishin’ fellas!! Brian Isn’t fishing with lights illegal in most states? Dan

How does one fish with a lightstick? (assuming it is legal in your state) In the water, on your person, boat, etc??

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Dan How does one fish with a lightstick? (assuming it is legal in your state) In the water, on your person, boat, etc??

I find lightsticks real handy when doing an all nighter going after threshers. Just take one and stuff it up a mackeral’s ass and let him swim around. mmmmm   mmmmmm  goood!! University Computing Services                           71533,1011 University of Southern California I love the smell of Netware in the morning.  Smells like…victory!!

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  How does one fish with a lightstick? (assuming it is legal in your   state) In the water, on your person, boat, etc?? Well Frank, just in case you’re not trolling, I’ll mention a couple of ways. Here in the Northwest we get to go after steelhead in the Snake River every fall. The impoundments behind the dams hold a lot of slack water and a lot of people fish from shore with sliding bobbers. At night it’s pretty common for people to rubber band a 1" light stick to their bobbers so they can see them. If the light disappears, set the hook! It beats going to bed… Also, I’ve used commercial jigs that had a short piece of surgical tubing tied onto the hook shaft. Insert a lightstick and jig away… I’ve never caught a steelhead with that setup, but it looked interesting. On a side note, I put a used light stick back into it’s foil wrapper and store till the next night in my camper’s freezer because I’m a cheap sob and can get several hours of night fishing for two nights using one lightstick.

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: :   How does one fish with a lightstick? (assuming it is legal in your :   state) In the water, on your person, boat, etc?? A story I often repeat that is relevant with the above topic. Seems I was pier fishing for salmon some years back. A bunch of us were out an hour or so before dawn. Everyone was using glow-in-dark type lures. Charging them up next to a lantern and then throwing them out for the salmon to bite. I asked in a rather loud voice "Hey does it make any of you guys nervous to eat a fish that likes to eat things that glow in the dark?" It got very quiet on the pier that morning. Good fishing, All About Computers      | (810) 456-3894 (work) 2887 Pontiac Ct.         | (810) 373-6865 (home) Auburn Hills, Michigan   | Single and not taking applications. 48326                    | Interviews maybe.

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Brian, you need to tell us the technique. Do you put a hook on the lightstick? or a reel?  Or…just hang it over the side of the boat to attract minnows/smaller fish??? Sam – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am a commercial fisherman. I fish 8 hours a day in Naples, Florida. Recently, I found a product that has helped my commercial fishing. KAILUME LIGHTSTICKS (http://www.lightsticks.com) has developed a product that will blow your mind away. My daily catch has tripled since I’ve used Kailume’ 1 inch and 6 inch lightsticks. Check out the site

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: :   How does one fish with a lightstick? (assuming it is legal in your :   state) In the water, on your person, boat, etc??

Frankly, if you need to use light sticks or a lantern to lure fish…you are a crappy fisherman. I asked in a rather loud voice "Hey does it make any of you guys nervous to eat a fish that likes to eat things that glow in the dark?"

Ooh…that’s nasty. S.

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: :   How does one fish with a lightstick? (assuming it is legal in your :   state) In the water, on your person, boat, etc?? Frankly, if you need to use light sticks or a lantern to lure fish…you are a crappy fisherman.

That’s spelled crappie  ;-) . You don’t have to use bait or a fly either; in both cases, you just might catch more fish if you do! — Richard W. (Dick) Lander; sportsman, Macintosh devotee, proponent of personal liberty. *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * *  *

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – about,  Re: Fishing With LIGHTSTICKS!!: Frankly, if you need to use light sticks or a lantern to lure fish…you are a crappy fisherman. Is that crappy or crappie? A white perch by any other name. — R. E. Harmon National Rifle Association Life Member Texas State Rifle Association Life Member

Fishing at night with lightsticks is the accepted way of catching broadbills off the South African coast.  In fact, it is only since the discovery of this form of fishing that the area has been identified as one of the worlds prime broadbill terratories.

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Frankly, if you need to use light sticks or a lantern to lure fish…you are a crappy fisherman.

I use them, but not to lure fish. I use small ones (Lunker Lite brand) that come with a small piece of clear plastic tubing. I put the light stick on the end of a pencil bobber, and use that so I can see my bobber at nite. I know in Washington it’s illegal to use light as an attractant. I guess I’m not sure how a game warden would view what I do, but it’s not my intent to use the light as an attractant. It’s a very small stick, only an inch or so long. It’s on the top of the bobber, sticking out of the water. I usually run several feet of line down to my hook, sometimes to where my bait is on the bottom, so I really doubt the fish are taking my bait because of the light stick. I don’t see any increase of my catch when I use the light sticks, it’s just a hell of a lot easier than using lanterns, flashlights, etc. to see the bobber. You get that same little thrill of seeing your bobber go down, except this way you just watch the light stick, and when it dissappears under the surface, you know it’s time to set the hook! Try it, you’ll like it! Pete               "Now go away, or I shall taunt you a second time."                                 Monty Python     Pete LaPlant                     *       http://nwlink.com/~pete/             *

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Frankly, if you need to use light sticks or a lantern to lure fish…you are a crappy fisherman.

Is that crappy or crappie?

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about,  Re: Fishing With LIGHTSTICKS!!: Frankly, if you need to use light sticks or a lantern to lure fish…you are a crappy fisherman. Is that crappy or crappie?

A white perch by any other name. — R. E. Harmon National Rifle Association Life Member Texas State Rifle Association Life Member

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Don’t know ’bout that, but I’d recommend ultra-light sticks for crappie.

Or maybe put a dimmer on it.

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: : Frankly, if you need to use light sticks or a lantern to lure : fish…you are a crappy fisherman. : : Or you could be a crappie fisherman.  Or a crappy crappie fisherman. Or a crappy crappie fisherman that couldn’t catch crap. —      Mario de Sales               |      Pro patria mori".   Wilfred Owen

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Brian, you need to tell us the technique. Do you put a hook on the lightstick? or a reel?  Or…just hang it over the side of the boat to attract minnows/smaller fish??? Sam I am a commercial fisherman. I fish 8 hours a day in Naples, Florida. Recently, I found a product that has helped my commercial fishing. KAILUME LIGHTSTICKS (http://www.lightsticks.com) has developed a product that will blow your mind away. My daily catch has tripled since I’ve used Kailume’ 1 inch and 6 inch lightsticks. Check out the site

Do these light sticks have a fuse?

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : :   How does one fish with a lightstick? (assuming it is legal in your :   state) In the water, on your person, boat, etc?? Frankly, if you need to use light sticks or a lantern to lure fish…you are a crappy fisherman. That’s spelled crappie  ;-) . You don’t have to use bait or a fly either; in both cases, you just might catch more fish if you do! —

Don’t know ’bout that, but I’d recommend ultra-light sticks for crappie.

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Question:

Can anyone provide information of good fly fishing spots in and around Ithaca New York?   Thanks GDO

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Can anyone provide information of good fly fishing spots in and around Ithaca New York?   Thanks GDO

I have made the three – plus hour trip out to Ithaca from Albany a few times to fish for landlocked salmon, brown trout, and rainbow trout in the spring and fall.  Mostly I have stuck to Fall Creek, but I have also fished Salmon Creek which is a short drive from Ithaca.  Fall Creek flows right through Ithaca, and some of the best fishing can be in the large pool at the base of the magnificent waterfall about 1.5 miles upstream from where the creek pours into Cayuga Lake.  For info on what when where why etc. I suggest the book "Good Fishing in Western New York"…I think it is available from Countryman Press. Right now it may be a little early for the rainbows, but browns and salmon may be in.  It’s been a dry fall around here, though, and I haven’t heard anything great about the fishing in the Finger Lakes tribs.  Of course, if you live in the area it’s no big deal to check it out…if you hear anything about the salmon run, please post it.  I am desperate to catch a landlock on my flyrod!!! Paul DiConza     NY Capital District Angler

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Question:

I am a begining fly fisherman and I am going to be working in canon city, co for the summer. I will be there from May 15- August 15. I would appreciate any suggestions on good places to fish, shops for flys, and approximate times of good hatches. In other words any help would be appreciated. thanks in advance. Paul

You’ll be living right by the headwaters of the Arkansas River, which has some decent trout (so I’ve heard, haven’t gotten down there yet). Also, you won’t be too far from the South Platte, which is pretty famous for awesome catch & release only, artificial flies & lures (barbless hooks) only fishing. The South Platte will be about 1.5 to 2 hours drive from Canon City, either north into Colorado Springs and then West on route 24 to Woodland Park, and north on route 67 to Deckers, or continue through Woodland Park to Lake George, and go up Elevenmile Canyon road (3 dollar access fee you pay at a self-serve station), to the river. I’m still new at the insect hatches, so can’t give you anything of value in that area. Pick up a copy of the Colorado Angling Guide when you get here, or before if you can find it. It’s got a nice collection of Forest Service maps of the areas. As for shops, I know the Angler’s Covey on 8th and West Colorado Ave in Colorado Springs is a great place for fly fishing supplies and advice, although you should be able to find something in Canon City as well, use the yellow pages. — Scott Ferguson                               My views are not necessarily Cray Computer Corporation                    those of Cray Computer Corp.

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I am a begining fly fisherman and I am going to be working in canon city, co for the summer. I will be there from May 15- August 15. I would appreciate any suggestions on good places to fish, shops for flys, and approximate times of good hatches. In other words any help would be appreciated. thanks in advance. Paul

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