Question:

Wow—I’ve been reading some great trip reports here recently.  My contribution isn’t as exotic as some, but our party had a great time anyhow. As this is still my first full season of fly fishing, our annual Sierra trek was to be an opportunity to test all that I’ve learned on some of my favorite waters.  Intimidated by the topo of the Pine Creek trail, our group opted to hire a packer to get us to the pass.  As diehard backpackers, none of us had ridden before, and I have to admit that a couple of us had less-than-favorable attitudes towards pack animals.  Five hours later, though, we were deposited at a spot that would have taken us two days to reach…no more snotty attitudes towards horses! Our base camp was at a bench lake on the south side of French Canyon.  From this temporary home surrounded by 13,000 foot peaks we had access to more than a dozen lakes that hold healthy populations of golden trout.  The days were sunny but verrrry windy, and casting was often a challenge for this FF newbie.  We experimented with a variety of patterns, but the fish seemed most eager for terrestrials, at least during daylight hours.  Hoppers, ants, and attractors like stimulators and royal trudes (12 – 16) were universal hits.  The fish we caught certainly weren’t trophy size, running perhaps 9", but they were very worthy fighters.  Besides, golden trout are so beautiful that we really didn’t mind.  I must have missed three strikes for each one that I connected with, but greater skill will surely come with practice.  On two evenings we were lucky enough to witness what I believe were midge hatches that brought every fish in the lake to the surface.  An honest description of the numbers of leaping fish would never be believed…the water was simply boiling with trout.  Amazing. We hiked out on the fifth day, and I had the chance to give my 4wt a workout in Pine Creek for small rainbows to 8".  I pieced this outfit together based on what several ROFFians have said in their posts, and I absolutely love it for small creeks.  A Redington CT 3/4 (praised by Willi, I believe), on a 7′6" Cabela’s PT rod (I went to the archives for this).  The DT4 line (Mike Conner) is a cheapie Dorber (suggested by many here).  I mention this only to thank everyone for the wealth of good information that finds its way to the group.  It has been an immense help to me.  I’ll try to post a couple of pictures to ABPF when the film gets back.  Thanks for the forum! Cheers, Bill

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Wow—I’ve been reading some great trip reports here recently.  My contribution isn’t as exotic as some, but our party had a great time

anyhow. <snip Great report. Thanks, Bill. — TL, Tim

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Wow—I’ve been reading some great trip reports here recently.  My contribution isn’t as exotic as some, but our party had a great time anyhow. …. Cheers, Bill

Bill Thanks for a great report. Count me among the former purists in the matter of using pack stock. Back Country fly selection is pretty non-critical. My usual answer to what patterns to take is "Yes take flies." However when they start springing for the midges in evening hatch, something in the size 20 range can be helpful, but again just what is not critical. Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories Phone: (650)-857-5491               Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971

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Question:

In other words, if you’ve made the moral decision to use a nymph, you might as well use all the weight you need to get it where it needs to be.

"the moral decision to use a nymph"??? I always considered it a tactical decision. What is the morality involved here?  Should we get Dr. Laura involved? George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

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"the moral decision to use a nymph"??? I always considered it a tactical decision. What is the morality involved here?  Should we get Dr. Laura involved?

Hold on, Forty should be here momentarily… Kevin

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In other words, if you’ve made the moral decision to use a nymph, you might as well use all the weight you need to get it where it needs to be. "the moral decision to use a nymph"??? I always considered it a tactical decision. What is the morality involved here?  Should we get Dr. Laura involved?

Oh fer cryin’ out loud George, why don’t you tip your nymph with a piece of corn while you’re at it?

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… So the question is: do you or don’t you tie/use weighted nymphs? I’d just as soon toss in a stick of dynamite or a gallon of Clorox as to use a fucking nymph, weighted or unweighted.

That is a red herring.  Is the dynamite weighted or unweighted?

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If it were me Danl, the answer is no.  You will catch fish if you weight your nymphs but what will you use, lead?  Not necessary.  You can use Zinc or copper if you want but there is a downside.  Your nymphs won’t flow along with the current drag free.  This is where 99% of all nymph fishermen mess up.  Trout are selective under water just as much as they are when coming to dry flies.  Drag free drifts is paramount if you’re going to be a savvy and serious nymph fisherman.  It’s difficult enough as it is and those who need to use bobbers while fly fishing is testimony to that fact.   Lead in a size #22 nymph isn’t going to do you any more good than weight inside a size 14 nymph or wet fly.  What you want to always maintain is a natural drift without lead and use nymphs as sparsely dressed as possible.  This is one of the reasons I make my own hand tied leaders because I would rather have weight on the knots above the main tippet and I use as much as is necessary to get the knot where the tippet is attached to the taper section, not the nymph itself.  I use a minimum of 24 inches of nymphing tippet material between the fly and the first knot.  If the weight (I use soft copper wire or zinc) for weight, if needed) and I use Xink on all my nymphs which will put my nymphs right along the same level as my tippet will be.  If your nymph is tumbling and turning and flowing along as naturally as possible, the amount of takes you’re going to get will triple compared to anyone who uses weight dragging nymphs. There is a zone of a foot or less right on the bottom of all rivers that is current free.  This is where resting fish lay as they watch food go drifting by.  As a dry fly rising fish will rise out of the current to take a fly on the surface, nymphing fish often rise from the very bottom to take a nymph passing by in the current.  You do not want your nymph ticking along the bottom as most profess you should be doing.  You want only the first weighted knot to be ticking along the bottom (every once in a while) and not the hook.  The fish that are caught with weighted nymphs are mostly force fed.  What I mean by this is the angler happens to be lucky enough to hit the fish almost right in the face.   I want to catch trout that are actively feeding on nymphs flowing along with the current because these are the fish that will swing left or right a foot or two.  There are feeding stations under water just as there are on the surface for dry fly fishermen. There is a lot more to this than what I have time to write here now, but to answer your question, you don’t need weighted flies as much as you do need more "Drag Free" drifts. George Gehrke Nymphomaniac Fly Fisherman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Owing to the fact the I lost most of my collection of PT nymphs (to a group of rapscallionous willows, aided and abetted by an army of cattails on steroids and a navy of submerged logs) a couple of weeks ago on the Owens, I need to replenish my supply. At least that’s my excuse for spending hours at the tying bench, busily not doing other chores. So the question is: do you or don’t you tie/use weighted nymphs? Danl That’s the best straight line I can serve up tonight…….

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I generally use weighted nymphs, but I prefer to use bead-heads, when practical, to weight them. Bead-head pheasnat tail nymphs are one of my most productive flies.

Mostly because of the "Apex Flash" on the round globe of the bead, not because of the extra weight which is mostly mute in its ability to influence a fishes’ attention Tim. George Gehrke Nymph maniac Fly Fisherman

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I’d just as soon toss in a stick of dynamite or a gallon of Clorox as to use a fucking nymph, weighted or unweighted. — Ken Fortenberry

Okay?!  So why do you say and feel like this about nymph fishing Ken?   George Gehrke "interested"

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… So the question is: do you or don’t you tie/use weighted nymphs? I’d just as soon toss in a stick of dynamite or a gallon of Clorox as to use a fucking nymph, weighted or unweighted. That is a red herring.  Is the dynamite weighted or unweighted?

that, will you please? jesus! my sides hurt . . .

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Seems to me that it really depends on the water you’re fishing. Clearly, an unweighted nymph casts better and makes more elegant presentations,  and a heavy nymph is pretty ugly in the air, but if the water is fast and deep it’s hard to get an unweighted fly down near the bottom. I suppose one solution would be to use a sinking line, but in the small streams that I usually fish I’ve never been able to see much value in using it. And I don’t like having to carry a floating line for dries and a sinking line for nymphs. In other words, if you’ve made the moral decision to use a nymph, you might as well use all the weight you need to get it where it needs to be. — Bob Patton

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Owing to the fact the I lost most of my collection of PT nymphs (to a group of rapscallionous willows, aided and abetted by an army of cattails on steroids and a navy of submerged logs) a couple of weeks ago on the Owens, I need to replenish my supply. At least that’s my excuse for spending hours at the tying bench, busily not doing other chores. So the question is: do you or don’t you tie/use weighted nymphs? Danl That’s the best straight line I can serve up tonight…….

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… So the question is: do you or don’t you tie/use weighted nymphs? I’d just as soon toss in a stick of dynamite or a gallon of Clorox as to use a fucking nymph, weighted or unweighted.

personally, i like fucking nymphs…… but what the hell ken, whatever floats yer boat <g –waldo

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I like to use a heavily weighted Copper John along with an unweighted nymph, or maybe two. The Copper John takes the place of splitshot, but has fish-catching capability. I still haven’t figured out whether it’s better to put the weighted fly on the top or the bottom. Any opinions on that? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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personally, i like fucking nymphs…… but what the hell ken, whatever floats yer boat <g

Past tense, right Walt ? — Ken Fortenberry

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… So the question is: do you or don’t you tie/use weighted nymphs? I’d just as soon toss in a stick of dynamite or a gallon of Clorox as to use a fucking nymph, weighted or unweighted. personally, i like fucking nymphs……

Weighted or unweighted?

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Ken Fortenberry wrote… I’d just as soon toss in a stick of dynamite or a gallon of Clorox as to use a fucking nymph, weighted or unweighted.

Oh you dry fly snob! Joel Axelrad **DFD**

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well, if there is really nothing doing on dries, and I can’t spark some action with soft-hackles, sure, I have some weighted nymphs in my boxes. Mostly I’ll go with bead-heads or in some places weighted stone-fly nymphs. I don’t much like casting heavy flies, nor flies with split-shot, but I’ll do what it takes.  I tend to fish places where I can get by just fine without resorting to heavy stuff. Eugene – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Owing to the fact the I lost most of my collection of PT nymphs (to a group of rapscallionous willows, aided and abetted by an army of cattails on steroids and a navy of submerged logs) a couple of weeks ago on the Owens, I need to replenish my supply. At least that’s my excuse for spending hours at the tying bench, busily not doing other chores. So the question is: do you or don’t you tie/use weighted nymphs? I seldom weight nymphs and I just don’t like the way beadheads look. (I know they catch fish but……) I prefer weight on the leader to weight on the fly in most situations. The only nymphs that I consistant tie with weight are large stoneflies. Willi

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I still haven’t figured out whether it’s better to put the weighted fly on the top or the bottom. Any opinions on that?

I think the unweighted fly "swims" better, more naturally, if it’s on the bottom.  The weighted fly serves the same function as a split shot, but lets the other fly drift more or less freely. JR

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I still haven’t figured out whether it’s better to put the weighted fly on the top or the bottom. Any opinions on that?

I put the weighted fly on top with the unweighted fly on the bottom (point). Just seems to be a logical arrangement, and I have had  success using it. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

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Owing to the fact the I lost most of my collection of PT nymphs (to a group of rapscallionous willows, aided and abetted by an army of cattails on steroids and a navy of submerged logs) a couple of weeks ago on the Owens, I need to replenish my supply. At least that’s my excuse for spending hours at the tying bench, busily not doing other chores. So the question is: do you or don’t you tie/use weighted nymphs?

I seldom weight nymphs and I just don’t like the way beadheads look. (I know they catch fish but……) I prefer weight on the leader to weight on the fly in most situations. The only nymphs that I consistant tie with weight are large stoneflies. Willi

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… So the question is: do you or don’t you tie/use weighted nymphs? I’d just as soon toss in a stick of dynamite or a gallon of Clorox as to use a fucking nymph, weighted or unweighted.

I would certainly prefer to use dries all the time, but western tailwaters generally require small(sz 20-26) midge larva patterns.  Over the past few years I would guess that I use nymphs nearly 85% of the time.  This includes dropping a nymph from a dry or using a two nymph rig.     Regarding the use of weighed nymphs.  I have started to stay away from weighted nymphs.  I prefer to use weight directly on the tippet, generally 12 to 18 inches above the point fly.  A tailwater guide in Colorado recently pointed out how weighted nymphs simply don’t float naturally through the water column and he always uses unweighted nymphs.   He also pointed out how BH patterns generally don’t look realistic and more often than not many BH(bead heads) are too big for the hook size.   Especially when dealing with sz 24 midge patterns! For weight, I use that green coated stuff from England.  Can’t think of the name right now…. — remove all x’s for reply email. To worry is folly so let us be jolly.

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    I do indeed tie weighted nymphs.  I use a red thread head on my weighted ones to indicate the difference from non-weighted.  I find arsenic-core lead solder to be a good weighting material as I don’t even have to use a priest, not that I ever would.  I do like the feel of those apache or golden trout flopping around in the creel, so some times I use the unweighted flies with the black-thread or beadheads.     By the way, for all those folk looking for a replacement for Gink, got an old transformer sitting out in the back yard and the liquid in that is great.  Keeps a fly floating forever.  I can ship a quart or two to anyone that needs it.  Might not want to hold your floatant bottle in your teeth, though.     Oh, by the way, for all you pissy C&R folks, I do practice it.  I got a latch on the bottom of the creel that lets me empty that sucker real quick if I see a ranger.  All he’ll find in there is a digital camera and an invite to the Elks Club Fly Tie. Danl,    I’ve gotten away from lead wire sinking nymphs and have found the ease of use of bead heads.  If I need to sink a nymph without a bead, I have found that the split-shot works great. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

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… So the question is: do you or don’t you tie/use weighted nymphs?

I’d just as soon toss in a stick of dynamite or a gallon of Clorox as to use a fucking nymph, weighted or unweighted. — Ken Fortenberry

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So the question is: do you or don’t you tie/use weighted nymphs? That’s the best straight line I can serve up tonight…….

Keeps the ball rolling anyway. The only weight I’ll add to a PT is a copper beadhead,  a small one (3/32" for #14, 5/64" for #16, nothing on smaller sizes).  I like a slim silhouette on PTs and think wrapping weight on the shank ruins that.   The flies I most often weight (other than winter steelhead flies) are woolly buggers.  I’ll also weight Prince and stonefly nymphs, which I frequently fish together with a smaller unweighted fly on a dropper. JR

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8< . So the question is: do you or don’t you tie/use weighted nymphs?

yes. –waldo

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I generally use weighted nymphs, but I prefer to use bead-heads, when practical, to weight them. Bead-head pheasnat tail nymphs are one of my most productive flies. Tim Lysyk

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Owing to the fact the I lost most of my collection of PT nymphs (to a group of rapscallionous willows, aided and abetted by an army of cattails on steroids and a navy of submerged logs) a couple of weeks ago on the Owens, I need to replenish my supply. At least that’s my excuse for spending hours at the tying bench, busily not doing other chores. So the question is: do you or don’t you tie/use weighted nymphs? Danl That’s the best straight line I can serve up tonight…….

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Owing to the fact the I lost most of my collection of PT nymphs (to a group of rapscallionous willows, aided and abetted by an army of cattails on steroids and a navy of submerged logs) a couple of weeks ago on the Owens, I need to replenish my supply. At least that’s my excuse for spending hours at the tying bench, busily not doing other chores. So the question is: do you or don’t you tie/use weighted nymphs? Danl That’s the best straight line I can serve up tonight…….

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Question:

7)  Why do geese have those white cheeks? Mr. G.

Why is it when geese make those long " Vs" to fly north and south each year one side of the "V" is longer than the other? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ans: There’s more geese on that   side.

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Duh… Water would get in their buttholes otherwise…

That’s why salmon don’t use Japanese toilets, too… — Charlie…

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Ari?  You’re question which is only a few words is like asking, "Why is an orange?"

Or, "you are question" — Gary (Email address is munged with x’s)

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If I were a "smart" salmon I’d just stay in the ocean and grow to a gargantuan size. Unfortunately, I wouldn’t pass my "smart"" genes on to any more salmon.

Ya wouldn’t get any sex either Darin

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Not all salmon do travel upstream. Chum salmon spawn in the lower reaches of the streams. Darin

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is the urge to spawn upstream all about? Ari?  You’re question which is only a few words is like asking, "Why is an orange?" Do your really expect anyone here to give you the full biological aspects and possibilities on "Why Do Salmon Spawn Way Up Rivers?" There are a thousand reasons why and control mechanisms that determine not only the why of it but the who, where, when, and how of it. There are the following controlling and/or influencing aspects that can and do affect all mammals on this earth. 1)  The phases of the moon. 2)  The position of the earth around the sun which is a seasonal aspect 3)  Earth temperatures 4)  Length of the day that sunshine baths this planet in the hemispheres. 5)  Magnetic lines of incidence 6)  Magnetic declination 7)  Why do geese have those white cheeks?  Water temperatures 9)  Water scents and/or minerals that salmon smell and home in on. 10) Those god awful dams that used to NOT be there. 11) All those stinking chemicals man puts in water today salmon are expected to overcome. 12) Your toilet and your bowels and that it all goes down hill. 13) Clearcutting and over sedimentation of your stream beds. 14) The  lowering of the water tables that stop springs from bubbling UP in streams anymore where REDDS ‘used’ to be. 15) The long liners and Japanese fishing theives in you Gulf of Alaska and over fishing. 16) No natural, UNRESTRICTED fish ladders AROUND ALL dams. 17) Over commericial fishing. 18) Those greedy, Indian Gill Nets that choke all the rivers from the ocean so the big ones don’t get by. 19) This causes the weakening of the species becausze the strong genes are destroyed for money. 20) I hate you for asking this unresponsible question because it serves no purpose and you’re not going to do a thing about it. 21) I hope termites eat your house up. 22) The monkey barks at midnight. 23) The dog ate my homework. 24) Que sera sera. 25) Kay Ballard 26) Wanna buy some redhots? 27) Oompa loompa doompety do. Wolfgang more to come……betcha a shiny new nickel.    

28) The temperature inside the Little Brown Trucks 29) How much Gink could a Dumb Dink Drink if a Dumb Dink Could Drink Gink? 30) The Trilateral Commission /daytripper (Ha hah! Bet you didn’t see that last one coming

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If I were a "smart" salmon I’d just stay in the ocean and grow to a gargantuan size. Unfortunately, I wouldn’t pass my "smart"" genes on to any more salmon. Ya wouldn’t get any sex either

So basically things would be the same for him if he were a salmon. <g — Warren Findley www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

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28) The temperature inside the Little Brown Trucks 29) How much Gink could a Dumb Dink Drink if a Dumb Dink Could Drink Gink? 30) The Trilateral Commission

31) They’re trying to smoke what is in Daytripper’s peace pipe. 32) They want to take away Wolfgang’s dictionary! 33) Waldo wading in the surf and so they ran to the rivers to get away from the smell! 34) They are trying to come and watch LaCourse play with his goat 35) They heard that RW would try and snag them on the redds and thought it was an urban legend so came anyways — Warren Findley www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

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If I were a "smart" salmon I’d just stay in the ocean and grow to a gargantuan size. Unfortunately, I wouldn’t pass my "smart"" genes on to any more salmon. Ya wouldn’t get any sex either So basically things would be the same for him if he were a salmon. <g

Well, maybe that, but look on the bright side. I wouldn’t be slowly dying in shallow water, being eaten alive by eagles and crows, and dogs wouldn’t be rolling in my stinking carcass. (BTW, we had a big salmon run this year and I’ve had to wash Arlo with tomato juice frequently.) When you get out to Stanley next time, Warren, there’s a fat chick I want to set you up with. Bring some hip boots if you have them, and I suspect you do, if you know what I mean.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is the urge to spawn upstream all about? Ari?  You’re question which is only a few words is like asking, "Why is an orange?" Do your really expect anyone here to give you the full biological aspects and possibilities on "Why Do Salmon Spawn Way Up Rivers?" There are a thousand reasons why and control mechanisms that determine not only the why of it but the who, where, when, and how of it. There are the following controlling and/or influencing aspects that can and do affect all mammals on this earth. 1)  The phases of the moon. 2)  The position of the earth around the sun which is a seasonal aspect 3)  Earth temperatures 4)  Length of the day that sunshine baths this planet in the hemispheres. 5)  Magnetic lines of incidence 6)  Magnetic declination 7)  Why do geese have those white cheeks?  Water temperatures 9)  Water scents and/or minerals that salmon smell and home in on. 10) Those god awful dams that used to NOT be there. 11) All those stinking chemicals man puts in water today salmon are expected to overcome. 12) Your toilet and your bowels and that it all goes down hill. 13) Clearcutting and over sedimentation of your stream beds. 14) The  lowering of the water tables that stop springs from bubbling UP in streams anymore where REDDS ‘used’ to be. 15) The long liners and Japanese fishing theives in you Gulf of Alaska and over fishing. 16) No natural, UNRESTRICTED fish ladders AROUND ALL dams. 17) Over commericial fishing. 18) Those greedy, Indian Gill Nets that choke all the rivers from the ocean so the big ones don’t get by. 19) This causes the weakening of the species becausze the strong genes are destroyed for money. 20) I hate you for asking this unresponsible question because it serves no purpose and you’re not going to do a thing about it. 21) I hope termites eat your house up.

22) The monkey barks at midnight. 23) The dog ate my homework. 24) Que sera sera. 25) Kay Ballard 26) Wanna buy some redhots? 27) Oompa loompa doompety do. Wolfgang more to come……betcha a shiny new nickel.    

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What is the urge to spawn upstream all about?

Ari?  You’re question which is only a few words is like asking, "Why is an orange?" Do your really expect anyone here to give you the full biological aspects and possibilities on "Why Do Salmon Spawn Way Up Rivers?" There are a thousand reasons why and control mechanisms that determine not only the why of it but the who, where, when, and how of it. There are the following controlling and/or influencing aspects that can and do affect all mammals on this earth. 1)  The phases of the moon. 2)  The position of the earth around the sun which is a seasonal aspect 3)  Earth temperatures 4)  Length of the day that sunshine baths this planet in the hemispheres. 5)  Magnetic lines of incidence 6)  Magnetic declination 7)  Why do geese have those white cheeks?  Water temperatures 9)  Water scents and/or minerals that salmon smell and home in on. 10) Those god awful dams that used to NOT be there. 11) All those stinking chemicals man puts in water today salmon are expected to overcome. 12) Your toilet and your bowels and that it all goes down hill. 13) Clearcutting and over sedimentation of your stream beds. 14) The  lowering of the water tables that stop springs from bubbling UP in streams anymore where REDDS ‘used’ to be. 15) The long liners and Japanese fishing theives in you Gulf of Alaska and over fishing. 16) No natural, UNRESTRICTED fish ladders AROUND ALL dams. 17) Over commericial fishing. 18) Those greedy, Indian Gill Nets that choke all the rivers from the ocean so the big ones don’t get by. 19) This causes the weakening of the species becausze the strong genes are destroyed for money. 20) I hate you for asking this unresponsible question because it serves no purpose and you’re not going to do a thing about it. 21) I hope termites eat your house up. Mr. G.

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Duh… Water would get in their buttholes otherwise… — TBone

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Fish head in all sorts of directions. * Anadromous – natal-rear/spawn in freshwater, adult-rear in sea – eg, salmon * Catadromous – natal-rear/spawn in sea, adult-rear in freshwater – eg, eels * Potadromous (aka Adfluvial) – natal-rear/spawn in headwater    streams, adult-rear in lakes – eg, bull trout, rainbow * Fluvial – natal-rear/spawn in headwater streams, adult-rear in mainstem    stream – eg, bull trout, rainbow, cutthroat * Resident – natal-rear/adult-rear/spawn in stream, no migration * Panadromous – natal-rear/adult-rear somewhere, caught and cooked in frying pan Thomas Gilg

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I currently live in a fairly large city in a fairly flat area, yet I yearn to be back in my home of the mountains. The pull is great. I consider that instinct and love for my homeland. Drew

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The other thing is that the Smolts must live in the river in their early stages. The further up the river they hatch the more mature and robust they should be when they hit the perils of the Ocean. Clark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Also flooding in such areas would be less severe and of shorter duration, possibly helping the redds stay in tact. Clark I would suspect that it has to do with better spawning habitat being found in the headwaters of salmon rivers. The gradient would usually be greater meaning better oxygenation, less siltation, better egg protecting substrate (gravel and cobble)  and cooler water temps. Just my opinion though. G.Cleveland What is the urge to spawn upstream all about? Zoologically speaking of course, allthough very obviously it’s to feed the bears of course – don’t you watch National Geographic? Jokes aside though, I recently discovered that we have our own upstream migration of Yellowfish every spring, even leaping over man made weirs and other natural structures. Surely the higher you go, the less water you will encounter. Also the further you have to swim downstream, the worse your chance of success, as chance of meeting predators or other dangers become. Also the further you have to swim upstream, the less chance you have of having enough energy to mate and spawn. Or is it a case of, the further you have to swim downstream, the more chance you will have of picking up food along the way and thus being better equipped to handle and survive the dangers of the final? destination. Or maybe a female will prefer a mate who is "fitter" than the rest and has proved that by making an more arduous journey? Does anybody out there know – we didn’t quite study salmon & trout ecology down in this part of the world, and I had never known about our own yellowfish habits until now. Ari Ari Bert Gaelle Bert +27 (0) 83 232 9903 +27 (0) 83 236 5308 Flyfishing Corner +27 (0) 11 447 7230 Shop 94, Admirals Court +27 (0) 11 882 8537 (fax) Cnr Craddock & Tyrwhitt www.troutfishing.co.za         Street, Rosebank P.O.Box 79067 Senderwood 2145 South Africa

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It reminds me of my weekend Clark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why do you pay for dinner on a date? Salmon spawn in shallow, well-oxygenated, gravel-bottomed, flowing water. The farther upstream they go the more of it they find. As to "why" they do it, the salmon aren’t "thinking" about "why" they do it. They just do it. And then they die. It seems to work for them. If I were a "smart" salmon I’d just stay in the ocean and grow to a gargantuan size. Unfortunately, I wouldn’t pass my "smart"" genes on to any more salmon. The most remarkable thing about spawning salmon and steelhead, to me, is just how single-minded they are about spawning. It reminds me of my youth.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It also seems likely that there would be an evolutionary drive to get further upstream to reduce competition.  If you get further up than any of the other salmon, your offspring will have all the food in their neighborhood to themselves. Reasonable enough. Then too, the further upstream, the smaller the potential predators. Quite possibly less of them too. Only those in the river.   I’d be willing to bet one of your shiny nickels that the grizzlies, otters, & eagles are the same size upstream as down. Further (not farther), traveling upstream may expose the salmon to more predators than if he/she stayed put.

I wasn’t thinking of the mama and the papa salmon, but rather the itty bitty babies.  Neither and eagle nor a grizzly is going to get too excited over a quarter inch long fish.  Nor would I for that matter.     Wolfgang

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Why do you pay for dinner on a date? Salmon spawn in shallow, well-oxygenated, gravel-bottomed, flowing water. The farther upstream they go the more of it they find. As to "why" they do it, the salmon aren’t "thinking" about "why" they do it. They just do it. And then they die. It seems to work for them. If I were a "smart" salmon I’d just stay in the ocean and grow to a gargantuan size. Unfortunately, I wouldn’t pass my "smart"" genes on to any more salmon. The most remarkable thing about spawning salmon and steelhead, to me, is just how single-minded they are about spawning. It reminds me of my youth.

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It is a survival thing.  Salmon will try to occupy the whole river as a hedge against any particular part of the river having problems (drought, flood, predators etc).   It is similar to the Atlantic salmon’s strategy of returning at different times and the resultant offspring becoming spring (multi-seawinter) fish, grilse or summer/autumn (fall) fish. It is in order to maximise survival of the species.  Hope this helps. Martin. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is the urge to spawn upstream all about? Zoologically speaking of course, allthough very obviously it’s to feed the bears of course – don’t you watch National Geographic? Jokes aside though, I recently discovered that we have our own upstream migration of Yellowfish every spring, even leaping over man made weirs and other natural structures. Surely the higher you go, the less water you will encounter. Also the further you have to swim downstream, the worse your chance of success, as chance of meeting predators or other dangers become. Also the further you have to swim upstream, the less chance you have of having enough energy to mate and spawn. Or is it a case of, the further you have to swim downstream, the more chance you will have of picking up food along the way and thus being better equipped to handle and survive the dangers of the final? destination. Or maybe a female will prefer a mate who is "fitter" than the rest and has proved that by making an more arduous journey? Does anybody out there know – we didn’t quite study salmon & trout ecology down in this part of the world, and I had never known about our own yellowfish habits until now. Ari Ari Bert     Gaelle Bert +27 (0) 83 232 9903    +27 (0) 83 236 5308 Flyfishing Corner +27 (0) 11 447 7230    Shop 94, Admirals Court +27 (0) 11 882 8537 (fax)   Cnr Craddock & Tyrwhitt www.troutfishing.co.za            Street, Rosebank P.O.Box 79067 Senderwood 2145 South Africa

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Also flooding in such areas would be less severe and of shorter duration, possibly helping the redds stay in tact. Clark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would suspect that it has to do with better spawning habitat being found in the headwaters of salmon rivers. The gradient would usually be greater meaning better oxygenation, less siltation, better egg protecting substrate (gravel and cobble)  and cooler water temps. Just my opinion though. G.Cleveland What is the urge to spawn upstream all about? Zoologically speaking of course, allthough very obviously it’s to feed the bears of course – don’t you watch National Geographic? Jokes aside though, I recently discovered that we have our own upstream migration of Yellowfish every spring, even leaping over man made weirs and other natural structures. Surely the higher you go, the less water you will encounter. Also the further you have to swim downstream, the worse your chance of success, as chance of meeting predators or other dangers become. Also the further you have to swim upstream, the less chance you have of having enough energy to mate and spawn. Or is it a case of, the further you have to swim downstream, the more chance you will have of picking up food along the way and thus being better equipped to handle and survive the dangers of the final? destination. Or maybe a female will prefer a mate who is "fitter" than the rest and has proved that by making an more arduous journey? Does anybody out there know – we didn’t quite study salmon & trout ecology down in this part of the world, and I had never known about our own yellowfish habits until now. Ari Ari Bert Gaelle Bert +27 (0) 83 232 9903 +27 (0) 83 236 5308 Flyfishing Corner +27 (0) 11 447 7230 Shop 94, Admirals Court +27 (0) 11 882 8537 (fax) Cnr Craddock & Tyrwhitt www.troutfishing.co.za         Street, Rosebank P.O.Box 79067 Senderwood 2145 South Africa

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@news.worldonline.co.za: Because they’ve done all there is to do downstream Scott

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I would suspect that it has to do with better spawning habitat being found in the headwaters of salmon rivers. The gradient would usually be greater meaning better oxygenation, less siltation, better egg protecting substrate (gravel and cobble)  and cooler water temps. Just my opinion though.

It also seems likely that there would be an evolutionary drive to get further upstream to reduce competition.  If you get further up than any of the other salmon, your offspring will have all the food in their neighborhood to themselves. Then too, the further upstream, the smaller the potential predators.  Quite possibly less of them too. Wolfgang

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It also seems likely that there would be an evolutionary drive to get further upstream to reduce competition.  If you get further up than any of the other salmon, your offspring will have all the food in their neighborhood to themselves.

Reasonable enough. Then too, the further upstream, the smaller the potential predators. Quite possibly less of them too.

Only those in the river.   I’d be willing to bet one of your shiny nickels that the grizzlies, otters, & eagles are the same size upstream as down. Further (not farther), traveling upstream may expose the salmon to more predators than if he/she stayed put. IMHO, I have absolutely no idea *why* they do it, but I’d expect that the farther (not further) a fish makes it upstream would be directly proportional to its health & strength. Joe F.

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I would suspect that it has to do with better spawning habitat being found in the headwaters of salmon rivers. The gradient would usually be greater meaning better oxygenation, less siltation, better egg protecting substrate (gravel and cobble)  and cooler water temps. Just my opinion though. G.Cleveland   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -What is the urge to spawn upstream all about? Zoologically speaking of course, allthough very obviously it’s to feed the bears of course – don’t you watch National Geographic? Jokes aside though, I recently discovered that we have our own upstream migration of Yellowfish every spring, even leaping over man made weirs and other natural structures. Surely the higher you go, the less water you will encounter. Also the further you have to swim downstream, the worse your chance of success, as chance of meeting predators or other dangers become. Also the further you have to swim upstream, the less chance you have of having enough energy to mate and spawn. Or is it a case of, the further you have to swim downstream, the more chance you will have of picking up food along the way and thus being better equipped to handle and survive the dangers of the final? destination. Or maybe a female will prefer a mate who is "fitter" than the rest and has proved that by making an more arduous journey? Does anybody out there know – we didn’t quite study salmon & trout ecology down in this part of the world, and I had never known about our own yellowfish habits until now. Ari Ari Bert                                    Gaelle Bert +27 (0) 83 232 9903                         +27 (0) 83 236 5308 Flyfishing Corner +27 (0) 11 447 7230                         Shop 94, Admirals Court +27 (0) 11 882 8537 (fax)                   Cnr Craddock & Tyrwhitt www.troutfishing.co.za                            Street, Rosebank P.O.Box 79067 Senderwood 2145 South Africa

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What is the urge to spawn upstream all about? Zoologically speaking of course, allthough very obviously it’s to feed the bears of course – don’t you watch National Geographic? Jokes aside though, I recently discovered that we have our own upstream migration of Yellowfish every spring, even leaping over man made weirs and other natural structures. Surely the higher you go, the less water you will encounter. Also the further you have to swim downstream, the worse your chance of success, as chance of meeting predators or other dangers become. Also the further you have to swim upstream, the less chance you have of having enough energy to mate and spawn. Or is it a case of, the further you have to swim downstream, the more chance you will have of picking up food along the way and thus being better equipped to handle and survive the dangers of the final? destination. Or maybe a female will prefer a mate who is "fitter" than the rest and has proved that by making an more arduous journey? Does anybody out there know – we didn’t quite study salmon & trout ecology down in this part of the world, and I had never known about our own yellowfish habits until now. Ari Ari Bert                                        Gaelle Bert +27 (0) 83 232 9903                             +27 (0) 83 236 5308 Flyfishing Corner +27 (0) 11 447 7230                             Shop 94, Admirals Court +27 (0) 11 882 8537 (fax)                       Cnr Craddock & Tyrwhitt www.troutfishing.co.za                                Street, Rosebank P.O.Box 79067 Senderwood 2145 South Africa

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Question:

My own opinion is that the future of the sport lies in lotteries or tickets for limited access to the most popular waters, and encouraging fishermen to spread their days over a diversity of waters, and to limit their days fishing if need be. Right now, I don’t think people really fish too often, just that they concentrate those days on the few well-publicized "gold medal" waters…

I whole heartedly support limited access. I don’t know how the change the pattern of high concentration on a few select waters in any other way. Willi

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….what was the guy thinking when he did this? I hadn’t heard a single word about it till you posted this.  Now, I might look it up.  What were you thinking? I did think about this and hesitated about posting. However, the stream has been discussed on ROFF in the past, the RMN has a circulation of over half a million readers who live in proximity to the stream, the stream is not and never will be a destination water, etc. etc.

O.K., so you aren’t worried about ME coming to fish there.  It’s only the residents of Denver and it’s immediate environs that you wish to EXCLUDE in this particular instance; only anyone who is likely to want to go there.  And this comes to us from a man just coming down off a week long rant about the exclusionary atmosphere in ROFF.  The same man, by the way, who thinks it is a good idea to exclude human beings altogether from certain areas.  So, we are all required to be nice to the newbies and tell them everything they need to know about HOW to fish, but not let anyone know about Willi’s favorite spots in Colorado.  And I’ll bet a shiny new nickel that anytime someone tells you about a SECRET stream you make a point of staying away from it in order to keep the pressure down, right?  You sir, are a monumental hypocrite.

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My own opinion is that the future of the sport lies in lotteries or tickets for limited access to the most popular waters, and encouraging fishermen to spread their days over a diversity of waters, and to limit their days fishing if need be. Right now, I don’t think people really fish too often, just that they concentrate those days on the few well-publicized "gold medal" waters… I whole heartedly support limited access. I don’t know how the change the pattern of high concentration on a few select waters in any other way.

Publicize less popular waters?  I think if Colorado were actually worried about it, the first step would be to stop publicizing the "gold-medal" waters.  Since they continue, I have trouble believing that they find the crowding to be as big a problem as those here on ROFF do.      - Ken

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I whole heartedly support limited access.

What about a minimum age requirement, say 50? Give the youngsters something to look forward to. — Charlie…

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ….what was the guy thinking when he did this? I hadn’t heard a single word about it till you posted this.  Now, I might look it up.  What were you thinking? I did think about this and hesitated about posting. However, the stream has been discussed on ROFF in the past, the RMN has a circulation of over half a million readers who live in proximity to the stream, the stream is not and never will be a destination water, etc. etc. O.K., so you aren’t worried about ME coming to fish there.  It’s only the residents of Denver and it’s immediate environs that you wish to EXCLUDE in this particular instance; only anyone who is likely to want to go there.  And this comes to us from a man just coming down off a week long rant about the exclusionary atmosphere in ROFF.  The same man, by the way, who thinks it is a good idea to exclude human beings altogether from certain areas.  So, we are all required to be nice to the newbies and tell them everything they need to know about HOW to fish, but not let anyone know about Willi’s favorite spots in Colorado.  And I’ll bet a shiny new nickel that anytime someone tells you about a SECRET stream you make a point of staying away from it in order to keep the pressure down, right?  You sir, are a monumental hypocrite.

Isn’t that the mantra of all the hypocrites here?   "I want less crowds…all the rest of you stop fishing" Hey, I’m as selfish as the next person, but at least I admit it.       – Ken

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I whole heartedly support limited access. What about a minimum age requirement, say 50? Give the youngsters something to look forward to. — Charlie…

Sounds like a good idea Charlie except the minimum age for the prime spots should be 70. Ernie

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Sounds like a good idea Charlie except the minimum age for the prime spots should be 70.

Let’s implement it gradually so that is true in about 18yrs<g. — Charlie…

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I really like that idea a bunch! I whole heartedly support limited access. What about a minimum age requirement, say 50? Give the youngsters something to look forward to.

Harry Mason www.troutflies.com

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Isn’t that the mantra of all the hypocrites here? "I want less crowds…all the rest of you stop fishing" Hey, I’m as selfish as the next person, but at least I admit it.       – Ken

Absolutely.  It’s highly ironic that everyone professes to want to promote the sport while at the same time decrying the numbers of people found on the water.  The jealous secrecy attached to particular hallowed favorite waters is especially telling.  I’m not fond of encountering crowds on the waters I fish either, but it’s easy enough to find something secluded.  As for the health of the waters themselves, individual bodies only remain popular so long as there are sufficient numbers of fish to maintain a high level of interest; not many people are going to stay for long on a stream with no fish in it.  So, a favorite stream gets written up in a magazine.  Everybody goes there and pretty soon all the fish are dead.  Everybody stops going.  A few years later the stream has recovered and in the meantime everybody is busy doing the same thing to another.  Or, thousands of people converge on a stream, the stream maintains high fish populations and life goes merrily on. Anyone TRULY interested in reducing fishing pressure on their favorite streams (or any other for that matter) should immediately do three things:  1.  Stop fishing NOW!  2. Stay OFF this news group.  3. Encourage anyone who plans to stay in ROFF to roast EVERY newbie who comes along.

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<< .. I did email the guy with my opinions about it, but what was the guy thinking when he did this?

I have been dealing with the same thing here in Spokane.  The local outdoor writer, who by the way happens to be an old time fly fisher, has taken to talking non stop about the blue ribbon lakes up in my hometown area.   He is vague when he talks about his own favorite waters but brags up these alpine lakes to no end.  As a result, there were over 200 fly fisherman on my favorite lake this opening weekend when two years ago there were only 40 people. Mike

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Maybe the guy was thinking that responsibility for stream-use management belongs to the DWR.

He could have made this point without naming the stream itself. I also don’t think that was his slant. He is pretty much of the opinion that C&R is THE solution to all of Colorado’s problems. The numerous public meetings he mentioned that are scheduled to discuss upcoming regs for a number of our waters should be well attended, hotly debated affairs. Willi

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but what was the guy thinking when he did this? He was thinking about selling newspapers.

About two years ago, Fly Fisherman magazine did an issue with two articles on small trout streams, located only minutes away from Los Angeles and Phoenix.  I wonder how many fish were left a month or so after they hit the newsstands. If you scan through the back issues of FFM from the early ’80’s onward, you notice that practically every issue mentions the Bighorn River — at first with titles like "America’s Greatest Trout River," but they start turning into "Over-crowding on the Bighorn."  I have yet to see any sort of mea culpa or any other sign of self-consciousness from the editorial staff though. Kevin

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….what was the guy thinking when he did this? I hadn’t heard a single word about it till you posted this.  Now, I might look it up.  What were you thinking?

I did think about this and hesitated about posting. However, the stream has been discussed on ROFF in the past, the RMN has a circulation of over half a million readers who live in proximity to the stream, the stream is not and never will be a destination water, etc. etc. Willi

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he wasn’t thinking, at all.  this brings to the forefront my primary concern regarding the present and future state of this sport.  there are too damn many people who fish, and those who do fish, fish too often.

The situation here in Colorado is that although there have been fewer licenses sold over the last few years, but there are now many more fly fishermen who fish many more days per year.  The result is historically high pressure on our streams and rivers. anyone who exposes a fragile resource such as the one willi describes should be banned from fishing for a substantial time, after a severe ass whipping.     and yeah, this is the primary reason why i don’t get enthused over making certain that the sensibilities of newbies are massaged.  there’s a gracious plenty of us out there as it is.

Although I definitely DON’T think that’s an excuse for being an asshole toward people, I agree that we don’t need more people fishing the streams and rivers. We are in a unique position, in that with most endeavors, if there is more interest, more facilities can be built to accommodate them. You can’t build a trout stream. Willi

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… I did email the guy with my opinions about it, but what was the guy thinking when he did this?

Outdoor writers have to walk a fine line between being vague and therefore irrelevant to their readers and "spilling the beans" so to speak and perhaps harming the spots they write about. I basically agree it’s a bad idea to publicize places that are best left well enough alone but I do have some sympathy for the dilemma outdoor writers face too. — Ken Fortenberry

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….what was the guy thinking when he did this?

I hadn’t heard a single word about it till you posted this.  Now, I might look it up.  What were you thinking?

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there are too  damn many people who fish, and those who do fish, fish too often.

Hey speak for yourself Mr. "I live only a few short hours away from heaven on Earth" Harrison. The only fishing I’m doing these days is in my dreams. But in heartfelt agreement on the punishment due that writer. —- Wayne Knight Expert in creating tailing loops and windknots Otherwise Fishless in Kansas Before you buy.

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but what was the guy thinking when he did this?

He was thinking about selling newspapers. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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   he wasn’t thinking, at all.  this brings to the forefront my primary concern regarding the present and future state of this sport.  there are too damn many people who fish, and those who do fish, fish too often.  anyone who exposes a fragile resource such as the one willi describes should be banned from fishing for a substantial time, after a severe ass whipping.    and yeah, this is the primary reason why i don’t get enthused over making certain that the sensibilities of newbies are massaged.  there’s a gracious plenty of us out there as it is.

Yeah!!  You tell it.  Anyone who wasn’t fishing pre-1974 (chosen so that I just barely meet the requirement) shouldn’t be allowed on the water at all.  And all you who do meet that requirement can’t take your kids with to even let them see the water.  It’s a special club dontcha know. Hey, here’s a thought, since it’s all you boomers out there that are causing the crowds, why don’t we just regulate you all off the water? It’d get rid of the crowds…      - Ken

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The point is that this is a small stream that can’t sustain a great deal of pressure. It could be easily fished out and even with C&R, crowds are totally inappropriate on such a small stream. Denver has a large population of fishermen. I did email the guy with my opinions about it, but what was the guy thinking when he did this? Willi

    he wasn’t thinking, at all.  this brings to the forefront my primary concern regarding the present and future state of this sport.  there are too damn many people who fish, and those who do fish, fish too often.  anyone who exposes a fragile resource such as the one willi describes should be banned from fishing for a substantial time, after a severe ass whipping.     and yeah, this is the primary reason why i don’t get enthused over making certain that the sensibilities of newbies are massaged.  there’s a gracious plenty of us out there as it is.     wayno

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The point is that this is a small stream that can’t sustain a great deal of pressure. It could be easily fished out and even with C&R, crowds are totally inappropriate on such a small stream. Denver has a large population of fishermen. I did email the guy with my opinions about it, but what was the guy thinking when he did this?

Maybe the guy was thinking that responsibility for stream-use management belongs to the DWR. –Steve

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In the Rocky Mountain News today, there is an article by Ed Dentry discussing fishing on a small stream in the foothills of Denver. The stream actually runs through some of Denver’s suburbs. The article was about how the stream was ignored by fishermen on their way to more distant waters and that some of the landowners in the area were attempted to put C&R regs on the stream. It’s been 15 years since I lived in the Denver area, but when I did, this stream was my local favorite. It was VERY lightly fished and held some nice fish, especially in the urban sections. A guy who has posted trip reports to ROFF about the stream, lives in an apartment right next to it and echoes my memories of it. The point is that this is a small stream that can’t sustain a great deal of pressure. It could be easily fished out and even with C&R, crowds are totally inappropriate on such a small stream. Denver has a large population of fishermen. I did email the guy with my opinions about it, but what was the guy thinking when he did this? Willi

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Question:

NEED HELP WITH POWERED PARACHUTES January 22,1997 Hi Folks,         My wife and I need all the help we can get–ideas?-advise-tips, etc. We are planning an environmental expedition into some uncharted jungles of Central America.  After four expeditions over the last nine years of trying to reach this particular area on foot we are seriously considering the use of back pack powered parachutes.         First, perhaps a little of our background would be helpful.  We are forty and fiftyish and in reasonable shape. We are both professionals-my wife is an Arthur and amateur photographer and one the best bushpersons I have ever met. She grew up on a farm where her father taught her hunting, fishing, and trapping. I am not big into guns but I’ve seen her shoot a six inch pattern at thirty yards (with a 44 magnum revolver!)  I have degrees in education, English, and Industrial Technology.  I am a licensed pilot (SEL) and have flown a paraplane trike. Spelunking is a hobby and I worked as a commercial diver a few years back(definitely a youngmans job).  I’ve worked in Mexico, the Caribbean, and we lived full time in Central America for a couple of years recently. (Stayed as long as the money and the luck held out).  We are back here in the States, in suburbia, working our tails off try to save or raise the money to get back South of the border and back to our work.  We have a non-profit tax exempt scientific and educational corporation and our Federal   tax exempt status for those that donate to the cause(we can furnish the 501 forms for tax purposes). Staying as independent as possible we have financed most of our expeditions out of our own pockets. So, who are we and what do we do?  Even though the term is about a hundred years out of date, perhaps the US Ambassador was the closest when he introduced at a banquet as Explorers.  Believe it or not there are still a few places left on this Earth that are still uncharted and unexplored.           Now a little about our work.  The area that we have tried (unsuccessfully) to reach overland has only been mapped from the air and some of those photographs were taken by Charles Lindberg in the thirties! So the Topo maps that do exist are notoriously wrong.  While cutting our way into this area we have in the past taken GPS readings, and collected samples of unusual plant life. (There is one vine that when boiled tastes just like coffee and another that if beaten into a pulp and put into relatively still waters will stun the fish enough to bring them to the surface and then when you gotten what you need you pull the vine out and stir the waters and the other fish revive).  Any archaeological ruins that we come across we get coordinates (GPS) sometimes do preliminary surveys and report to the authorities when we come out.  We don’t dig or loot.  Our next expedition is planned for the dry season in 1998 (February through April).  We will establish a base camp accessible by road and fly out of it.  We are currently working on a drag net that can be deployed and opened in the air and then retrieved while still in the air.  We will use this for the collection of insects above the canopy and up the river and stream valleys where we can.  If the back pack powered chutes work as I hope they will we should be able to land and take off from sand bars, clearings etc.  I’ve flown the valleys in a Cessna and am well aware of the variable winds, especially ridge drafts.  After almost being inverted twice I got back to altitude (prayerfully at that).  However, mornings and evenings are often calm-so if you don’t get stupid you might get away with it.         Now for the real reason for this E-mail.  Many questions??  We are considering building our first unit to train on here in the States as we don’t have the finances for a new or used unit at this time.  Has anyone had any experience with a company called "Easy Up".  They offer plans and recommend sources for new and used equipment.  I have also heard that there were tandem units on the market.  Not that we would fly tandem, but it would add a great measure of safety if a parachute, engine, or pilot were disabled.  What about climbing radius after take off (I’m sure it varies with thrust and chute design). My weight should be at about two hundred and my wives about a hundred and thirty.         What about Corporate sponsorship.  Any ideas on fundraising? There will obviously be a video produced.  Anyone know of anyone that has a unit stored that they would like to take a tax write-off on (or am I dreaming). Or a Patron or person of means who would fund the project-They might get a new bug or plant species named after them-Yeah, I know doesn’t seem like much incentive does it.  We will consider taking a few folks with us, but at this point it would have to be on a voluntary basis with them picking up their own expenses.  Experience and attitude would also be a very important considerations.   Well, thanks for taking the time to read this.  If you can’t help please pass it along to someone who may have suggestions or ideas. Thanks, John

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Trevor, YOu could always try the news group rec.aviation.powerchutes. R. Williams – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – G’day I am looking for information on paramotoring. I can find plenty on paragliding but less or even nil on the powered para. Any info on clubs, competition or buying/selling would be appreciated especially in but not restricted to Australia . I travel to the USA and British Isles regularly with work too so any info from these countries would be welcome cheers Trev Mac —

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I suggest you to read Big Air ’s Accident Reports. There are a few Paramotor accident reports which can be benefitial to you. Regards, Kinsley Wong Big Air Paragliding http://www.web-partners.com/paragliding

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Hi Klaus, here is an other german paramotor pilot. Name here is Oscar and I am located near the city of Ulm. I fly a Fresh Breeze paramotor with Paratech wing…. Any other paramotor pilots from Germany here ??? Best regards, Oscar

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if you come to scotland try phil.

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if you come to scotland try phil.

I like that "Coudbusters" !

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Here’s another: http://www.poweredparaglider.com/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – G’day I am looking for information on paramotoring. I can find plenty on paragliding but less or even nil on the powered para. Any info on clubs, competition or buying/selling would be appreciated especially in but not restricted to Australia . I travel to the USA and British Isles regularly with work too so any info from these countries would be welcome cheers Trev Mac —

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G’day I am looking for information on paramotoring. I can find plenty on paragliding but less or even nil on the powered para. Any info on clubs, competition or buying/selling would be appreciated especially in but not restricted to Australia . I travel to the USA and British Isles regularly with work too so any info from these countries would be welcome cheers Trev Mac —

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zum Thema "Re: paramotor": anyone here who is paragliding with paramotor ? I flied more than one hundred times powered PG.  When you tried to fly by Powered PG, you should never use high performance PG because it is difficult to take off.  Additionally, the high performance PG is easy to collapse, sometimes recovery of collapsed PG is difficult in the case of powered PG.

I want to use my old parachute for flying with paramotor. I gave it back   to the company for changing to stronger ropes. For normal fly I want to buy a new modern high performance PG. I think that your have much experience in PG.  If not, you should learn how to control PG by PG flyer.  Powered PG is very intresting, but it is danger to fly without basic experience and knowledge about PG.  In Japan, there is one fatal accident in powered PG.  He was a ultralight flyer. Anyway, best way to safety flying is to learn how to control PG by PG (or Powered PG) flyer.

I spent lots of hours flying conventional PG, some hours Ultralight and in   past lots of hours soaring. But it is always a new experience to start flying in spring mfg KMW —   ,–.__,-.__,—-.__,-.__,–.  // Klaus Michael Weinreich

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Try this: http://hometown.aol.com/skybrake/brakeindex.html

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – G’day I am looking for information on paramotoring. I can find plenty on paragliding but less or even nil on the powered para. Any info on clubs, competition or buying/selling would be appreciated especially in but not restricted to Australia . I travel to the USA and British Isles regularly with work too so any info from these countries would be welcome cheers Trev Mac —

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good innit? he’s a very clever man.

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anyone here who is paragliding with paramotor ? I have bought one, second hand, but I still have no experience at all with   flying this funny thing, although I have licence for Ultralight etc. mfg KMW

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Try     rec.aviation.powerchutes R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – G’day I am looking for information on paramotoring. I can find plenty on paragliding but less or even nil on the powered para. Any info on clubs, competition or buying/selling would be appreciated especially in but not restricted to Australia . I travel to the USA and British Isles regularly with work too so any info from these countries would be welcome cheers Trev Mac —

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Question:

This group makes me think about where things are going in our sport. I like to pick out trends I see, fantasize about them and follow them to their extreme conclusions.  Below is one of the perverted, but maybe not too far fetched, scenarios I came up with. Jim and Bob arrived at the Neiman Marcus Orvis shop and met up with Rod, their guide for the day.  They were looking forward for a chance to get away from it all and rip some lips on the famous Turquoise river. A short ride took them to the base of the massive dam. While they were waiting for the Ranger directing traffic to give them the OK to launch, Rod started checking out their equipment. It was the latest and still showroom fresh. "I’m going to replace that 20X tippet you have on for some 15X. 20X is good enough for the little 10 or 15 pounders but when we get into some good fish you’ll be glad you have the 15X," He said. "What’s the new, hot fly?" Jim asked. "Rod’s Killer Krill (patent pending)," Rod replied, "Since they engineered the krill to live in fresh water and stocked the reservoir with them, that’s all the hogs will eat. They won’t even open their mouths for any of the insects that fishermen used to imitate. The fly is tied with Natural Scent Dubbing, so it smells and tastes just like krill, as well as looks like it. It’s the only fly you’ll need." The Ranger signaled to them that their turn had come and they quickly launched their boat and proceeded down stream. Rod skillfully maneuvered the craft to maintain the mandated 20′ between them and other boats. After a short drift, they arrived at the first hole and Rod switched to auto pilot to maintain distance and keep their place in line. He then started his instruction, "These fish are something special. By combining DNA from extinct species, they engineered a Super Trout that fights like an Atlantic Salmon, grows huge like a King and has the beauty of a Greenback Trout. They’re sterile, so all they think about is food and with the dam regulated temperatures and flows, all they do is eat all day, everyday." "They line up all across the bottom, gobbling up every krill that passes. All you need to do is cast up stream and with your Indi-glasses you’ll be able to follow the electro-indicator in your fly as it drifts along the bottom.  When your fly disappears, set the hook because it’s been eaten." The guys started casting.  Jim had fished a little when he was a kid and was having some trouble because he kept fighting the rod by trying to cast on his own. Rod said, "Just let the rod and reel do their job, quit fighting them. Throw a short length of line behind you, hold the rod straight up and let its molecular memory do the rest.  The reel will keep feeding out line and when your cast is far enough, drop the rod tip." The advice helped Jim and after his third decent cast, he got the first hook up. Rod cheered him on, praising Jim’s skill while knowing full well that with the 100 lb. test 15X tippet and the "smart" rod, Jim could land a truck. Fishing was great, as usual, and either Jim or Bob had on a fish every 20 or so casts. They made slow, steady progress down stream, filling in the spot vacated by the boat just below them. After releasing another 30 pounder, Rod reminded them, "This is a restricted take, Trophy river. The first fish caught under 4 pounds must be kept and the fishing for that angler stopped for the day." Rod knew that the state only stocked "Super" trout over 4 pounds in the upper river but in "Keeper Hole", just above the take out, they stocked plenty of old fashion stockers. This was a perfect arrangement for the outfitters, their clients could C&R hogs for a couple of hours, then catch their dinner just before take out. Things, as usual, went according to plan. Jim and Bob caught lots of fish that Rod recorded on Stereo Tape before releasing them. Jim and Bob each caught their dinner and Rod got his tip. That evening while eating their trout dinner and drinking their favorite tiny-mini-micro brew, Trout Sweat, Jim turned to Bob and said, "You know, it just doesn’t get any better than this." Willi

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Willi Thats not a fantasy; its a nightmare. But you do have the writer’s touch. How about another scenario;  one where Jim and Bob remember how the fisheries Dr. Frankensteins had been making great progress on the supertrout, and Bob and Jim had even caught a few in the experimental river, but the whole technology had been lost when some crazed old coot from an island somewhere near Seattle had burned their lab to the ground, hunted down every last one of the technologists, but finally succumbed to the authorities screaming something about deconstructing the meniscus. Dave

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Actually, the guys at Macrohard are working on a virtual reality fly fishing kit. You can plug it in any time,any where. Choose the type of fishing you want (small stream, lake, saltwater, etc.), level of difficulty, wind direction/speed, if the fish are easy or hard to land, etc. The game comes with a virtual fly rod that you wave around…if you present the fly well and you tie your virtual fly onto your virtual tippet ok, the virtual fish will take. What a kick. Also, you can choose if you want Cindy Crawford as your guide. If you choose Cindy, she gives you a kiss everytime you land a fish. You get the sensation of the fish fighting through the virtual rod. Sorry, I couldn’t resist. Bob E., Rochester, NY

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What is ya? Ignernt?

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Question:

I need help on how to catch a bullfrog…any suggestions? I mean serious suggestions.

Get a fishing fly.  One with a hook in it.  Tie it to a piece of monofiliment.  Tie the other end to a long pole.  Twitch it in front of him.  When he grabs it, jerk the pole to set the hook.  Then unhook him and let him go.         Bill

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I need help on how to catch a bullfrog…any suggestions? I mean serious suggestions. We bought this thing as a tadpole when he was all cute and cuddly(and quiet). Seeing as how we have poststamp size lots where I live, this frog is becoming hated by the neighborhood(along with me). I don’t want to here how nice they sound and I won’t kill him. He will go to a wetland where he belongs. Thanks Faith H.

 The flashlight should work. It does blind them and if your quiet, you should be able to catch him. Steve Johnson http://lornet.com/~alside

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I need help on how to catch a bullfrog…any suggestions? I mean serious suggestions. We bought this thing as a tadpole when he was all cute and cuddly(and quiet). Seeing as how we have poststamp size lots where I live, this frog is becoming hated by the neighborhood(along with me). I don’t want to here how nice they sound and I won’t kill him. He will go to a wetland where he belongs. Thanks

Don’t worry!  I doubt if you’ll get flamed for wanting to relocate a recalcitrant bullfrog.  Although this technique is usually used by people who intend to eat the bullfrog, therefore gentleness is not an issue, the method I’ve heard is to "blind" them with a flash light.   Then you could slap a net over it.  I’m not saying this will be easy!! — Signed- Kellie  USDA zone 7/8, Sunset Zone 33 My Karma Ran Over My Dogma.  It was a Catastrophe. Now my Dogma’s Dead and my Karma’s out of alignment. Get in KNEE DEEP!  <http://w3.one.net/~rzutt/newsletter.html

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I need help on how to catch a bullfrog…any suggestions? I mean serious suggestions. We bought this thing as a tadpole when he was all cute and cuddly(and quiet). Seeing as how we have poststamp size lots where I live, this frog is becoming hated by the neighborhood(along with me). I don’t want to here how nice they sound and I won’t kill him. He will go to a wetland where he belongs. Thanks Faith H.

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I need help on how to catch a bullfrog…any suggestions? I mean serious suggestions.

Get a fishing fly.  One with a hook in it.  Tie it to a piece of monofiliment.  Tie the other end to a long pole.  Twitch it in front of him.  When he grabs it, jerk the pole to set the hook.  Then unhook him and let him go.         Bill

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I need help on how to catch a bullfrog…any suggestions? I mean serious suggestions. We bought this thing as a tadpole when he was all cute and cuddly(and quiet). Seeing as how we have poststamp size lots where I live, this frog is becoming hated by the neighborhood(along with me). I don’t want to here how nice they sound and I won’t kill him. He will go to a wetland where he belongs. Thanks Faith H.

 The flashlight should work. It does blind them and if your quiet, you should be able to catch him. Steve Johnson http://lornet.com/~alside

Response:

I need help on how to catch a bullfrog…any suggestions? I mean serious suggestions. We bought this thing as a tadpole when he was all cute and cuddly(and quiet). Seeing as how we have poststamp size lots where I live, this frog is becoming hated by the neighborhood(along with me). I don’t want to here how nice they sound and I won’t kill him. He will go to a wetland where he belongs. Thanks

Don’t worry!  I doubt if you’ll get flamed for wanting to relocate a recalcitrant bullfrog.  Although this technique is usually used by people who intend to eat the bullfrog, therefore gentleness is not an issue, the method I’ve heard is to "blind" them with a flash light.   Then you could slap a net over it.  I’m not saying this will be easy!! — Signed- Kellie  USDA zone 7/8, Sunset Zone 33 My Karma Ran Over My Dogma.  It was a Catastrophe. Now my Dogma’s Dead and my Karma’s out of alignment. Get in KNEE DEEP!  <http://w3.one.net/~rzutt/newsletter.html

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I need help on how to catch a bullfrog…any suggestions? I mean serious suggestions. We bought this thing as a tadpole when he was all cute and cuddly(and quiet). Seeing as how we have poststamp size lots where I live, this frog is becoming hated by the neighborhood(along with me). I don’t want to here how nice they sound and I won’t kill him. He will go to a wetland where he belongs. Thanks Faith H.

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Question:

i did not know so many people liked bone fishing!!

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i did not know so many people liked bone fishing!!

Actually, I think it is only the ones that have tried it. It is very exciting. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

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Question:

About a month ago I asked for info about fishing in N. Georgia.  The response was very good and I thank everyone.   Well, we just got back from the trip to Ga., and I have to tell ya, if I didn’t see it with my own eyes, I wouldn’t believe it.  I discovered the Chatooga River, infamous for being the river where "Deliverence" was filmed.  What an absolutely beautiful piece of water!  I thought I was back in New England.  Fast, cold (61), free stone, clear trout water. There was a hatch of very small caddis, but didn’t see too many rises.  In NE I use a cased caddis fly called the Strawman; just spun deer hair trimmed short.  Gink it up so it floats.  Ga trout like it too.  Only had two days on the Chatooga, but managed a couple of nice browns (10-14 in) down-stream from the Rt 76 bridge.  Caught a few small rainbows downstream and upstream from the Rt 28 bridge.  Great river.  I also tried the Chatahootchi ( The Hootch) below Buford Dam.  Super cold – like 53; no hatches.  But lotsa fog!  Dragged a nymph or two, and lobbed a few streamers, but got zilch.  The rocks on this river are the slimiest, most slippery I’ve ever encountered!  I checked out the Hootch above the lake (iat next trip.  Also, I’d like to try the Chatooga just below the NC border.  Anyone know how to get there? The roads in Georgia are also terrific, and gas was $1.07 a gallon (it’s $1.50 here in Mass)!  Georgia’s not NH or Maine, but it’s great!   Good drifts, Dave LaCourse

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[snip] The rocks on this river are the slimiest, most slippery I’ve ever encountered!

You don’t even want to ask what that slick stuff is! Also, I’d like to try the Chatooga just below the NC border.  Anyone know how to get there?

Go east from the river on Hwy 28 .  Hwy 107 will enter from the left. Take 107 north until you pass the state park on the right.  Start looking for the sign on the left for Burrells Ford road.  It’s a couple of miles down this road to the river.  When you get to the river the NC state line is about 4-4 1/2 miles upstream.  This part of the river is mainly brown trout water and is not stocked.  A good trail goes upstream on the east (South Carolina) side of the river. You can fish on the South Carolina side of the river with a Georgia license, just don’t go up any feeder streams.  As an alternate go west from the river on hwy 28.  Take the first gravel road to the right. That will bring you in to the opposite side of Burrells Ford. The roads in Georgia are also terrific, and gas was $1.07 a gallon (it’s $1.50 here in Mass)!  Georgia’s not NH or Maine, but it’s great!  

We don’t tax gas heavy but did you check the price of beer and cigs? Got to make those sinners pay! See ya, John Johnson Atlanta, GA

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Question:

I plan on going fishing this weekend in Farmingham, Ct.  Any suggestions about where to eat, sleep. fish and drink.  Thanking you in advance for your help

I’ve lived in Connecticut for some 40 years, and haven’t encountered Farmingham, but then I’m always learning a new name for the 169 towns and hundreds more villages in this State.. However, I suspect you mean Farmington, and refer to the Farmington River, not the town located somewhat to the west of Hartford. The river has a trout management (catch and release) area extending about 5 miles north of the town of New Hartford which has some of the best fishing in Connecticut at this time of year because it is a cool-running tailwater. In my experience and because of that, it gets pounded at this time of year. However, it holds good fish and they are often catchable.   Check with the Classic and Custom FLy Shop in New Hartford for conditions, etc. (203) 738-3597. Good luck.

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I usually stay at the Hillside Motel, eat breakfast (blueberry pancakes) at Six-Ds and dinner at Athena pizzeria near Satan’s Kingdom. Custom and Classic is a good shop for fishing supplies but don’t call — the fishing is always great. They don’t sell licenses but can direct you to the hunting/fishing shop about a mile away. Definitely buy the Farmington River Anglers Association book and call their hotline (203) 738-7327 before your next trip. The catch and release TMA is crowded weekends but I go because I never get skunked. Caught a bunch of 11-12 inch browns last trip by rollcasting #18 ants on 7x Orvis fluorocarbon out to steady risers at the boneyards but they are EXTREMELY leader and micro-drag shy. The minature salmon are everywhere and can actually be a nuisance. Doug Johnson Stratus Computer, Marlborough, MA

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