Question:

Response to stress signals put out by hooked fish, – to make a meal out of the hooked fish – to eat anything regurgitated – to eat the fly/lure if is visible – and perhaps, curiosity.

Reflexive schooling response?

Response:

Response to stress signals put out by hooked fish, – to make a meal out of the hooked fish – to eat anything regurgitated – to eat the fly/lure if is visible – and perhaps, curiosity. Reflexive schooling response?

Exactly.  Schooling is a behavior that has many rewards.  Thus, fish that school have survived to pass on the tendency to school. Trout are Darwinian.

Response:

I’ve seen spawners do that.  Lots of times there will be two males hanging around a female.  Of course I’ve only caught spawners by accident bruce h

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J. Butler writes: I noticed when I hooked a trout in a small stream that as it ran it was flanked on either side by two of its fellows.

(snip)   Land locked salmon and brook trout display the same behavior.  My theory:  the trout on the hook emits a distress signal of some sort and the other trout are there to pick up anything regurgitated.  I have seen bigger trout actually attack the hooked trout.  In waters that contain trout and pike, it is not unusual for a pike to come up and take the entire trout in its mouth. Dave

Response:

I have seen bigger trout actually attack the hooked trout.  In waters that contain trout and pike, it is not unusual for a pike to come up and take the entire trout in its mouth.

Was in the local shop last week listening to the owner’s stories about bonefishing in Abacos.   His boat was in the midst of a large school of bones, and large sharks were beginning to enter the school and snap off hooked fish.   He claims (and this is fishing shop talk) that if he watched his hooked fish and a shark came near, he could give the fish enough line to swim normally, and the shark would swim past and search other prey. Joe F.

Response:

He claims (and this is fishing shop talk) that if he watched his hooked fish and a shark came near, he could give the fish enough line to swim normally, and the shark would swim past and search other prey.

I have observed this with bass and hooked bluegill on several occasions. My own interpretation is that the big fish is looking for a wounded or ailing little fish to eat rather than trying to track down a healthy one, the latter being much harder to catch. –Steve

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -J. Butler writes: I noticed when I hooked a trout in a small stream that as it ran it was flanked on either side by two of its fellows. (snip)   Land locked salmon and brook trout display the same behavior.  My theory:  the trout on the hook emits a distress signal of some sort and the other trout are there to pick up anything regurgitated.  I have seen bigger trout actually attack the hooked trout.  In waters that contain trout and pike, it is not unusual for a pike to come up and take the entire trout in its mouth. Dave

Two years ago I was fishing the Thompson R. in N.W. Montana. While bringing in a small rainbow I had a bull trout (I assume) grab said fish and drop down to the stream bottom. Couldn’t budge him and he wouldnt let go. Eventually had to bust the 5x tippet. Have also seen smallmouth feed on minnows regurgitated by a hooked fish. G.Cleveland

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Zimbo writes: I have observed this with bass and hooked bluegill on several occasions. My own interpretation is that the big fish is looking for a wounded or ailing little fish to eat rather than trying to track down a healthy one, the latter being much harder to catch.

But, I have seen small fish follow the bigger hooked fish.  I had on a 20 inch brook trout and had 12 – 15 inch trout following its every move.  (????) Dave

Response:

George Cleveland writes: Two years ago I was fishing the Thompson R. in N.W. Montana. While bringing in a small rainbow I had a bull trout (I assume) grab said fish and drop down to the stream bottom. Couldn’t budge him and he wouldnt let go. Eventually had to bust the 5x tippet.

I got into a large bull trout on the East Fork of the South Fork of the Salmon River.  The guide got a "glimpse" of him as he raced by and went to the bottom of a fairly deep pool.  I too could not budge him and had to break the 5X FC . It is illegal to intentionally fish for the bull in Idaho.  It is a protected species.   I’ve caught Dolly Vardens on the Aleutians in Alaska, but they were’nt anywhere near as mean as the ones I saw in Idaho! Dave

Response:

I have observed this with bass and hooked bluegill on several occasions. My own interpretation is that the big fish is looking for a wounded or ailing little fish to eat rather than trying to track down a healthy one, the latter being much harder to catch.

No doubt about that.  But I imagined the OP was talking about fish the same size swimming with the hooked one.  I’m kind of curious about that too.

Response:

I have observed this with bass and hooked bluegill on several occasions. My own interpretation is that the big fish is looking for a wounded or ailing little fish to eat rather than trying to track down a healthy one, the latter being much harder to catch. No doubt about that.  But I imagined the OP was talking about fish the same size swimming with the hooked one.  I’m kind of curious about that too.

i believe the flee response of fish is often similar enough to a feeding response (especially for saltwater species)… also, i think some of it might be curiousity…. like wondering why the hooked fish is behaving so strangly… plus, often hooked fish will regurgitate food items… so a fish could be following picking off bits of food.  without being a fish it’s always gonna be guesses about the exact reason for their behavior. chris

Response:

 Has anyone else observed other fish accompanying a caught one?

I reckon they just see a mate in distress and attck him while he’s down. One less fish to have to fight about over food & sexual partners. But then that’s just what zoology drummed into me for years and years. They probably got it wrong. Ari Ari Bert                                        Gaelle Bert +27 (0) 83 232 9903                             +27 (0) 83 236 5308 Flyfishing Corner +27 (0) 11 447 7230                             Shop 94, Admirals Court +27 (0) 11 882 8537 (fax)                       Cnr Craddock & Tyrwhitt www.troutfishing.co.za                                Street, Rosebank P.O.Box 79067 Senderwood 2145 South Africa

Response:

I have observed this with bass and hooked bluegill on several occasions. My own interpretation is that the big fish is looking for a wounded or ailing little fish to eat rather than trying to track down a healthy one, the latter being much harder to catch. No doubt about that.  But I imagined the OP was talking about fish the same size swimming with the hooked one.  I’m kind of curious about that too.

I’ve seen this more than once and put it down to this: Response to stress signals put out by hooked fish, – to make a meal out of the hooked fish – to eat anything regurgitated – to eat the fly/lure if is visible – and perhaps, curiosity. It is unquestionably not top "help out" as fish do not have the brain capacity for altruism.  All their responses are evolved around, eat, avoid being eaten, and procreation. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

No doubt about that.  But I imagined the OP was talking about fish the same size swimming with the hooked one.  I’m kind of curious about that too. I’ve seen this more than once and put it down to this: Response to stress signals put out by hooked fish, – to make a meal out of the hooked fish – to eat anything regurgitated – to eat the fly/lure if is visible – and perhaps, curiosity.

Seems like a complete list to me. I can’t remember seeing this with trout. Maybe with stockers? It is more common with some other fishes. I’ve noticed it particularly with Smallmouth. The fish following generally appear VERY agitated. Smallmouth have a tendency to regurgitate when hooked.   It is unquestionably not top "help out" as fish do not have the brain capacity for altruism.   All their responses are evolved around, eat, avoid being eaten, and procreation.

There are a few others. For example, seeking a suitable temperature sometimes takes precedence over everything else. Willi

Response:

Could the fellows simply have accompanied the one they thought had found a meal and tried to chase the same source of food without seeing it?

That’s what my hypothesis is. This has happened to me numerous times. One time I had one hooked that got away, as soon as he swam off another took the hook. It was very cool to see. Was the trout you caught a rainbow? It seems to me RB’s exhibit this behaviour more than others. I might be mistaken though. Jim

Response:

I noticed when I hooked a trout in a small stream that as it ran it was flanked on either side by two of its fellows.  They did not follow just away from me, by towards me and in an arc the caught one swam.  Has anyone else observed other fish accompanying a caught one?  Does anyone have an hypothesis as to why other fish would accompany a caught one?  Could the accompanying fish been unaware the other had been caught and just exhibit schooling behavior?  Could the accompaning fish been aware their caught fellow was in distress and aiding it in some way?  Could the fellows simply have accompanied the one they thought had found a meal and tried to chase the same source of food without seeing it?  Did they simply respond to the caught one’s flight and accompany it away from danger?  Too bad I wasn’t fishing a dropper to pick up one of its mates!

Response:

Question:

I combine backpacking and flyfishing.  I have an old pair of very light weight wading shoes which are falling apart and I need to replace them.  Who sells the lightest wading shoes (barring sandels which do not protect the toes)?

Chota Brookies are the lightest I have seen. — Charlie…

Response:

Gary,   Get a pair of tennies, buy a felt re-sole kit, drive some aluminum nail through the felt, cut the nails off flush and cement it to the tennies with the nail heads against the shoe sole.  This isn’t the best foot protection, but provides economical, light weight, slip proof waders. Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I combine backpacking and flyfishing.  I have an old pair of very light weight wading shoes which are falling apart and I need to replace them.  Who sells the lightest wading shoes (barring sandels which do not protect the toes)? Thanks, Gary Connors

Response:

I like my "dan bailey lightweight wading shoes"  about $45, really light and durable for me anyway.  They smash really flat to fit in a backpack also. Patagonias look like the best lightweight felts to me, but i bet they’re big bucks. bruce h Before you buy.

Response:

… Patagonias look like the best lightweight felts to me, but i bet they’re big bucks.

They look that way to me too, Bruce. I too backpack & flyfish and after some scary, near death acrobatics while wading in Teva sandals, I’ve been hauling my heavy felt soled boots in the backpack. I got a good look at Steve’s Patagonia boots in North Carolina and while I have no first hand (foot) experience with them, I think they’ll be my next purchase in wading boots. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

I combine backpacking and flyfishing.  I have an old pair of very light weight wading shoes which are falling apart and I need to replace them.  Who sells the lightest wading shoes (barring sandels which do not protect the toes)? Thanks, Gary Connors

In addition to the other responses, you might want to check out Five-Ten water shoes. They are intended primarily for paddlers, but they will do in a pinch as lightweight, warm-water wading shoes. See http://www.fiveten.net/Product/water.html (no endorsement, liminable or subliminable, is intended or implied)

Response:

I combine backpacking and flyfishing.  … In addition to the other responses, you might want to check out Five-Ten water shoes. …

5.10 rubber soles may be OK for some wading, but if you’re wading on rocks you’ll want felt soles. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

I too backpack & flyfish and after some scary, near death acrobatics while wading in Teva sandals, I’ve been hauling my heavy felt soled boots in the backpack.

I glued felt to the bottoms of an old pair of Teva’s and they work pretty well.   Willi

Response:

Patagonia makes the best lightweight wading boots I know of. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Patagonias for me! I bought a pair last Fall and have never regretted it. They are very well built and lightweight to boot.

I wore out my pair last year, sent them back for new felt soles, and they sent me a brand new pair of boots. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

I combine backpacking and flyfishing.  I have an old pair of very light weight wading shoes which are falling apart and I need to replace them.  Who sells the lightest wading shoes (barring sandels which do not protect the toes)? Thanks, Gary Connors

Response:

My kid brother’s worn-out size 14 basketball shoes. Glue on felt soles. Use ‘em as camp shoes too, if you don’t mind wet feet. — "Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum" — Ambrose Bierce – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Who sells the lightest wading shoes

Response:

Patagonias for me! I bought a pair last Fall and have never regretted it. They are very well built and lightweight to boot. Drifter

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … Patagonias look like the best lightweight felts to me, but i bet they’re big bucks.

Response:

I have a pair of hodgeman bantam weights that are extremely light "dry"…some of the seams blew out after about 11 months use,(1 year warranty), just got a new pair on warranty. I agree with Ken, what works best for me is to hike them in. Tim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … Patagonias look like the best lightweight felts to me, but i bet they’re big bucks. They look that way to me too, Bruce. I too backpack & flyfish and after some scary, near death acrobatics while wading in Teva sandals, I’ve been hauling my heavy felt soled boots in the backpack. I got a good look at Steve’s Patagonia boots in North Carolina and while I have no first hand (foot) experience with them, I think they’ll be my next purchase in wading boots. — Ken Fortenberry

Before you buy.

Response:

Orvis has a tennis shoe type wading shoe

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I combine backpacking and flyfishing.  I have an old pair of very light weight wading shoes which are falling apart and I need to replace them. Who sells the lightest wading shoes (barring sandels which do not protect the toes)? Thanks, Gary Connors

Response:

In addition to the other responses, you might want to check out Five-Ten water shoes. They are intended primarily for paddlers, but they will do in a pinch as lightweight, warm-water wading shoes. See http://www.fiveten.net/Product/water.html (no endorsement, liminable or subliminable, is intended or implied)

I have a pair of the 5/10 shoes, with aqua-stealth soles.  They are sooooo good that I got my wife a pair.  They were on sale at REI for $50 (half off). For the first time, I was able to wade the E Walker with no slipping at all (bowling balls covered with snot). Bought ‘em a size big so they fit over my wader booties.   Good luck. Dick Weinkle

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I have a pair of the 5/10 shoes, with aqua-stealth soles.  They are sooooo good that I got my wife a pair.  They were on sale at REI for $50 (half off).

Going completely OT:   Michael Jackson went to K-Mart because he heard boys pants were half off.

Response:

Question:

Jim,     IMHO, I’d try fly fishing the ocean personally because there doesn’t seem to be many great streams/rivers in the SD area….   Oceanwise, you might get to hook up with some Bonita, Yellowtail etc… that would be great…. even a Mackeral on the fly would be a challenge, depending on the weight rod.       Otherwise, fly fishing in SoCal, alot of it is float-tubing the lakes down there, try Lake Miramar, or Lake Hodges,,    you have chances at the stocker Rainbows or record setting Largemouth Bass…..   Good Luck, have a great week fishing in SD. (good Marinas for 1 day fishing trips for Yellowtail, Sand Bass, Barracuda & Tuna are Seaforth & H&M Landing, they’re right down there by Seaworld, downtown, SD).                        Lizet

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Heading for San Diego for two weeks in December.  Any hints on where I can fly-fish as that is the only equipment I will be able to pack.  Also names of off-shore fishing companies that I can contact for 1 day trips.     Shad Man

Response:

Depends where you are staying in SD.  I rent a house in Mission Beach each year and fish out of Seaforth as it is nice and my wife can bike over and get the car later.  Most of the landings nearer downdown are all clustered around H&M and are West of the Airport. Flyfish the rocks at La Jolla.  2 links are http://www.sport-fish-info.com/counts/ for landings and http://www.sdsportsfishing.com For some tips and areas.  I also go to Squidco or SQC near downtown for an equipment trip.  Large warehouse tackle store. Bill

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Heading for San Diego for two weeks in December.  Any hints on where I can fly-fish as that is the only equipment I will be able to pack.  Also names of off-shore fishing companies that I can contact for 1 day trips.     Shad Man

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Heading for San Diego for two weeks in December.  Any hints on where I can fly-fish as that is the only equipment I will be able to pack.  Also names of off-shore fishing companies that I can contact for 1 day trips.     Shad Man

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Question:

I’ve driven all over the country and seen some mighty fine independent outdoor shops. Long-time owner-operated, hardwood floors, hand-picked stock, great stuff, great stories, multi-generation shops. Let’s wake up folks. These shops are going the way of the dodo. The chains and BAD shops are taking over. Maybe one way we can STOP this sad trend is to make a list of our favorite shops nationwide. Then stop by when we’re in the area. Maybe go on drives to see these treasures! One selfish reason of mine to do this is that I haven’t taken a big road trip lately and I’d like to go revisit some of those great ole shops. OK, I forgot where some of them were. Of course, you know that outdoor sport shops aren’t the only disappearing dodos in civilized retail. Quality independent restaurants, hardware stores and bookshops are in the same boat. Maybe there’s a way we can rescue them all at once? Putting the word out about where there are can’t be a bad way to start. — Jeff Potter   !.com   delete ‘DELETETHIS!’ to reply ***"Out Your Backdoor": Friendly Magazine of DIY Adventure and Culture        http://www.glpbooks.com/oyb … with a full line of books, bookstore & forum

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The chains and BAD shops are taking over. Maybe one way we can STOP this sad trend is to make a list of our favorite shops nationwide. Then stop by when we’re in the area.

My experience so far is that the typical chain store doesn’t carry the best outdoor gear… i.e. they will have Timberland boots but not Vasque or Asolo… But in Birmingham Alabama I would recommend Alabama Outdoor and Roger’s Trading Co.  I have to say, though, that one of my favorite things to do in Atlanta is visit REI, and I think they are a great place to get gear. cordwood

Response:

In the Dallas Texas Area, look to: Backwoods  (corner of Coit and Campbell roads, Richardson) <–also carry flyfishing gear, woohoo! Mountain Hideout Lover’s Lane, just a block West of the Dallas North tollway We have an REI in town, but I like these stores better, they go out of their way for you, whether you are asking for an expensive tent, a pair of $18 socks, or even $2 zipper pulls. In Dayton, Ohio, go to General Surplus, don’t have the address. — Matt Blickensderfer * A Grouchy German is a Sour Kraut! *

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’ve driven all over the country and seen some mighty fine independent outdoor shops. Long-time owner-operated, hardwood floors, hand-picked stock, great stuff, great stories, multi-generation shops. Let’s wake up folks. These shops are going the way of the dodo. The chains and BAD shops are taking over. Maybe one way we can STOP this sad trend is to make a list of our favorite shops nationwide. Then stop by when we’re in the area. Maybe go on drives to see these treasures! One selfish reason of mine to do this is that I haven’t taken a big road trip lately and I’d like to go revisit some of those great ole shops. OK, I forgot where some of them were. Of course, you know that outdoor sport shops aren’t the only disappearing dodos in civilized retail. Quality independent restaurants, hardware stores and bookshops are in the same boat. Maybe there’s a way we can rescue them all at once? Putting the word out about where there are can’t be a bad way to start. — Jeff Potter   !.com   delete ‘DELETETHIS!’ to reply ***"Out Your Backdoor": Friendly Magazine of DIY Adventure and Culture       http://www.glpbooks.com/oyb … with a full line of books, bookstore

& forum

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Question:

I would like some advice on bite tippets for Blue Fish and other toothy critters – both fresh and saltwater.  I have used various wire type leaders for spin fishing but have no experience with fly fishing for northerns, blue fish etc. Thanks Jim

Response:

For bluefish smaller than 4 pounds you can get away with 30 pound mason or similar hard mono.  Anything bigger and you will wnat singlestrand wire. Cehck out any of the good knot books (Mclane or whoever) for ways to join wire to mono. For spanish mackerel heavy mono is fine.  King macs wire.   Northern pike will let you get away with mono.  there are some who say wire is better because it is thinner.  In my experience it just scares the fish due to shine.  Use clear Mason. Do no use braided wire.  No good at all.

I would like some advice on bite tippets for Blue Fish and other toothy critters – both fresh and saltwater.  I have used various wire type leaders for spin fishing but have no experience with fly fishing for northerns, blue fish etc. Thanks Jim — Flyfish NC                                                   Gordon Churchill http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Rapids/3853                                                                    

Response:

I would like some advice on bite tippets for Blue Fish and other toothy critters – both fresh and saltwater.  I have used various wire type leaders for spin fishing but have no experience with fly fishing for northerns, blue fish etc. Thanks Jim

Hi Jim, I think most fly fishers use wire for Barracudas, Northern Pike, Sharks and Bluefish. For Billfish, Tarpon, Snook and Jacks most use heavy/hard mono. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

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Question:

We’re looking to go fishing in Spain next spring. Having given up on the guide books I am keen to find out if anyone has been or knows of  any places to go to etc. Thanks James

Response:

We’re looking to go fishing in Spain next spring. Having given up on the guide books I am keen to find out if anyone has been or knows of  any places to go to etc. Thanks James

James… I met a Spanish trout fishermen on the internet who may be able to give you some leads. His name is Paco…and he can be reached at If you go, let me know. Bob

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The thing of it is, all this competitive junk we heap upon our pursuits more often than not will keep us from enjoying them fully. Don’t worry about your ‘level’, answer the question ‘Am I having fun ?’ If yes, then keep doing it ! An interesting aside, I was recently approached to run a FFing school and was kind of uneasy about it, though I didn’t know why. This string answered my question, think I’ll pass !                                               jc COME ON!    jeeze!   you guys are relentless!  The level thing was obviously (to me) a tongue in cheek post concerning the realization that that you really *are* here to be in the moment and enjoy your surroundings : 5)just go fishing and soak in the experience, catching fish just a plus…   If you guys would stop trying to be so damned elitist, you would see that half the posts you flame are posts you would agree with if you would take the time to read them.

Congratulations, You have demonstrated a command of the language which may be unobtainable by the "elitists".  Words do have meaning.  Reading is such hard work. Dennis

Response:

: I’ve been flyfishing for more than a decade, and a couple of years ago I : realized I had reached the fifth level of flyfishing. The levels are: : 1) catch a fish with this hard to operate equipment : 2)catch lots of fish : 3)catch a large fish : 4)catch lots of large fish : 5)just go fishing and soak in the experience, catching fish just a plus… I’m at all these levels, I love to fish and catch fish, whether it’s tarpon in Florida or bluegill down the road, or just watching a trout feed and not wetting a line.  Why limit yourself.  I will fish for anything, anywhere, anytime and enjoy it. John

Well said! Jack

Response:

How many of you were ever new to flyfishing? Do you remember that first stike, how the excitement surged as you "swung and missed". And that rush as you clumsily horsed in you first fish. And what about the satifaction as you let that first big brute go after a battle well fought. Let us not loose sight of why we fish…That big chess game we play with Mother Nature. Instead of limiting the players, why not educate them on how the "game" is played. Anyone who wants to enjoy this wonderfull sport of Flyfishing should be able to WITHOUT the harassment of others. Maybe a helping hand should be extended instead of a judgemental finger. Dana Clark

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Pavlov) writes: : : tim:  look, why don’t you cut folks like the originator of this thread : a little slack.  he did nothing to deserve your relentless sarcasm, … : Maybe everyone is getting a little touchy.  I don’t see how Tim’s posts reflected on the originator of the thread.  The one that you quoted was a response to someone else altogether.  greg pavlov

It never fails to amaze me that regardless of the hobby, there are those who use their proficiency as a weapon to downgrade those who are less accomplished.  When I first got into photography (prior to the wonders of the internet) I ran into the same smug and demeaning attitude I find on this forum on occasion.  Let’s face it, after A River Ran Through It was released thousands of newcomers became enamoured with flyfishing.  Some of these people are just trendy types who confuse fishing with ownership of all the toys.  They will never really appreciate the joy of standing in a stream and taking it all in. Most of these people will fish awhile and then put their equipment in the closet along with the remains of their other short-term obsessions.  On the other hand, there are those who seriously enjoy the experience and who plan on spending the next several years learning flyfishing and being responsible in what they do.  Oldbies should take the time to learn the difference. Bo Johnson

Response:

Dear Gentlemen;         If I may expand this idea of "the clothes make the man": Sure, there are a lot of middle-aged and younger flyfisherman with the newer more technologically developed gear, but look at where 4-wheel drives have gone.  Who would have ever though a uper-mid. class house wife would lust after a Chevy Blazer, for heaven’s sake!  There are a lot of established F.Fisherman here in the east who don’t have a lot of money and who persue their sport with the single-midedness of an olympic athelete.  They welcomed me to thier waters, (if not thier ranks, yet), and gave me the info I neede to catch fish.  None of these guys act in a demeaning way if you do not have the best equipment.  If you have the *right* equip., that is important.  They know what will catch trout.  They also know that just having the right equip. guarantees nothing.  Stuff works or it doesn’t.  Sometimes, no matter how good you rod is, well, trout can’t read, and they have no concept of money.  Some fantastic F.Fisherman from my home area, NW PA, have rather inexpensive glass rods and cheap reels.  They learned long ago that the flyline and the presentation of a fly which the trout *might* take are the most important factors.  We cannot get on people’s cases about equipment.  Technique will be lost.  I honestly need better technique.  I know I don’t do what I should as well as I should, but expensive equipment (or new) will not help me.  Overall, I have found that the oldest of the order are the most accepting of new blood.  They are less competetive for fish.  I owe them tremendously.                   Sincerely;                 Jason Beary

Response:

Another level altogether: when you take your neighbor’s kid out because he/she looks a little down.  You leave your rod behind so you can concentrate on helping this youngster have the best time he/she possibly can. — Laboratory for Applied Logic    Dept. of Computer Science University of Idaho             www: http://www.cs.uidaho.edu/~foster —–BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK—– Version: 2.6.2 mQCNAzDtvLEAAAEEAKAC21G2Be0K0DMgjLpxrwLmsYfCz8rWcfgyABjr3Ryfk1dO nV7fFFpUF3xohR7die+/B2V9oqRQzTLeSF2ECKlsTY/yUyw2kn+P2ju1umh4Fwzd cVTvc+H69q1+Ft3kmw/PE0Pan+g0PUGGJ43stw3q4OgBHdixbRd/f9giJFDxAAUR tCZKYW1lcyBBLiBGb3N0ZXIgPGZvc3RlckBjcy51aWRhaG8uZWR1PokAlQMFEDD8 ReEXf3/YIiRQ8QEBFrAD/2AFuRWcD/3MENC3qJMC/Or1qxknjkK7Uv+TDf2LHPOY GHBbG9PyWuXQ8of0Dd+JYwf/tzlO9Yk1s1zTdikfriak21FW0bCokxDIhA3myppZ IZDWVA9CyvDYHuP5Ii1NkBvocab813JzDLZA+0iVN5sebGb9zSXR4Za47hlriHeP =RDHK —–END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK—–

Response:

"Another level altogether: when you take your neighbor’s kid out because he/she looks a little down.  You leave your rod behind so you can concentrate on helping this youngster have the best time he/she possibly can." This person is a "master" fly fisher. We all concentrate on our equipment, where we fish, how many fish we catch and so on. After many years we reach a level where we own fine quality equipment, we’ve fished all of the popular waters for a variety of species, and we’ve caught more fish than we can remember – and probably fewer than we sometimes profess. At this time we are regarded by our peers and ourselves as accomplished and notable fly fishers. But, until you take the time to pass along you knowledge, in a gentle and patient manner, you have not mastered the sport. Congratulations on reaching this ultimate plateau.

Response:

I’ve been flyfishing for more than a decade, and a couple of years ago I realized I had reached the fifth level of flyfishing. The levels are: 1) catch a fish with this hard to operate equipment 2)catch lots of fish 3)catch a large fish 4)catch lots of large fish 5)just go fishing and soak in the experience, catching fish just a plus…

Is it possible that there is a (6) Be near water dreaming of the fishes with no intention of doing anything to them, but knowing that you could, if you wanted to..? Rowing my little dory on trappers lake and seeing all of the cutts in the gin clear water with no desire for… Dooo Dooo Dooo…. …ripping lips. Tim Walker

Response:

: (6) Be near water dreaming of the fishes with no intention of doing : anything to them, but knowing that you could, if you wanted to..? Tim, maybe you should start an RFD for "rec.outdoors.stop-fishing" because that’s what you seem to advocate nowadays. — Jeff Smith                                     Graduate student http://www.msc.cornell.edu/~jeffs         Cornell University, Ithaca, NY

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : (6) Be near water dreaming of the fishes with no intention of doing : anything to them, but knowing that you could, if you wanted to..? Tim, maybe you should start an RFD for "rec.outdoors.stop-fishing" because that’s what you seem to advocate nowadays. Nah… But I’d like to see… rec.outdoors.flyfishing.lets-put-the-fishing-back-in-flyfishing rec.outdoors.flyfishing.is_fashionable rec.outdoors.flyfishing.natural_order_is_extinct rec.outdoors.flyfishing.C&R.might_as_well_stock_the_olympic_sized_pool rec.outdoors.flyfishing.pensive rec.outdoors.flyfishing.binaries.pictures.erotica.trout.tasteless Tim Walker

tim:  look, why don’t you cut folks like the originator of this thread a little slack.  he did nothing to deserve your relentless sarcasm, which is simply becoming tiresome to many of us who might even agree with some of your positions.  if you want to engage in competitive verbal abuse, pick on someone your own size.  just email me or fletcher or jeff smith, etc., when you feel froggy.  meanwhile, let the newbies and the innocents alone to do their walden/thoreau thing in peace. a. wayne harrison

Response:

: : : (6) Be near water dreaming of the fishes with no intention of doing : : anything to them, but knowing that you could, if you wanted to..? : : Tim, maybe you should start an RFD for "rec.outdoors.stop-fishing" : because that’s what you seem to advocate nowadays. : : Nah… <blah, blah, blah : Tim Walker Tim… *yawn* oh, nevermind. -chuck o. —

Response:

I’ve been flyfishing for more than a decade, and a couple of years ago I realized I had reached the fifth level of flyfishing. The levels are: 1) catch a fish with this hard to operate equipment 2)catch lots of fish 3)catch a large fish 4)catch lots of large fish 5)just go fishing and soak in the experience, catching fish just a plus… Am I alone, or have others experienced this with their own fishing?? Oh yeah, I’m the guy who started the thread about discovering "slower" rods and increasing my enjoyment of the sport 10 fold… Dennis

Response:

: I’ve been flyfishing for more than a decade, and a couple of years ago I : realized I had reached the fifth level of flyfishing. The levels are: : 1) catch a fish with this hard to operate equipment : 2)catch lots of fish : 3)catch a large fish : 4)catch lots of large fish : 5)just go fishing and soak in the experience, catching fish just a plus… : Am I alone, or have others experienced this with their own fishing?? : Oh yeah, I’m the guy who started the thread about discovering "slower" : rods and increasing my enjoyment of the sport 10 fold… : Dennis Yea, I’ve reached level 5 too… But I skipped levels 2, 3, and 4. -chuck o. (not joanne b.) OST, maybe I did attain level 3 (w/o attaining level 2, of course)… depens on your definition of "large." —

Response:

: (6) Be near water dreaming of the fishes with no intention of doing : anything to them, but knowing that you could, if you wanted to..? Tim, maybe you should start an RFD for "rec.outdoors.stop-fishing" because that’s what you seem to advocate nowadays.

Nah… But I’d like to see… rec.outdoors.flyfishing.lets-put-the-fishing-back-in-flyfishing rec.outdoors.flyfishing.is_fashionable rec.outdoors.flyfishing.natural_order_is_extinct rec.outdoors.flyfishing.C&R.might_as_well_stock_the_olympic_sized_pool rec.outdoors.flyfishing.pensive rec.outdoors.flyfishing.binaries.pictures.erotica.trout.tasteless Tim Walker

Response:

: But I’d like to see… : rec.outdoors.flyfishing.binaries.pictures.erotica.trout.tasteless What would be in this group… the 4 inchers or the 10 inchers? — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

Congratulations on attaining that state.  Welcome to the group of flyfishers that see the spiritual aspect of flyfishing.  Not only see it, but practice it. I too progressed through the process. Level 5.  Jonathan Livingston Seagull wondered what level is next. JJ

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : : : (6) Be near water dreaming of the fishes with no intention of doing : : anything to them, but knowing that you could, if you wanted to..? : : Tim, maybe you should start an RFD for "rec.outdoors.stop-fishing" : because that’s what you seem to advocate nowadays. : : Nah… <blah, blah, blah : Tim Walker Tim… *yawn* oh, nevermind. -chuck o. —

Go Tim! Go!

Response:

WHAT IS IT WITH SOME OF YOU GUYS/GALS?  You were new to the sport at one time so why not give a lot of newbies a little slack?  We may be newer to it than you but we certainly do not come to it with any less honorabel intentions.  We too love the outdoors and the total experience.  We too love the idea of learning to excel at the sport.  SO, PLEASE forgive us if we take a spot on the water once in awhile.

It’s concepts like being at a "level" that make me feel like joining Tim Walker sometimes. There seems to be this "karate school" mentality about; white belt, yellow belt, black belt etc. that people need to attach to everything. It’s as if we need a constant reassurance of our self worth. The twisted thing is, fishing has traditionally been a place to get AWAY from this crap, it’s a mental state where you just exist as a part of the water. It’s inner peace. If it’s there for you, it’s there regardless of your ability. When I started FFing it was like 1967, and I used to fish in the ocean for pollock, mackerel, cod and the occasional sea raven, when is like a sea robin that inflates when out of the water, we used to call them ‘grubbies’. It was a delight for me to catch anything then. I never thought of a grubbie as being inferior to a striper, and had never heard of tarpon, bones, etc. Now I catch mostly stripers & blues, but this summer I was standing on the dock at our marina just dangling a clouser in a couple feet of water and up comes this mass of weeds – no it’s a grubbie! and arcs under the fly, returning to the piling he lived at. I was thrilled, by a ‘trash’ fish. The thing of it is, all this competitive junk we heap upon our pursuits more often than not will keep us from enjoying them fully. Don’t worry about your ‘level’, answer the question ‘Am I having fun ?’ If yes, then keep doing it ! An interesting aside, I was recently approached to run a FFing school and was kind of uneasy about it, though I didn’t know why. This string answered my question, think I’ll pass !                                                 jc

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I have to confess, I’m a little surprised at the simplistic ideology being embraced in this thread.  To believe that any pursuit in life is a straight-line progression from crude to intellectually and spiritually superior is a little naive.  I have fished for 35+ years, 24 of those as a fly-fisher, and I have days when I just want to be out in the environs and every- thing else is secondary and days when catching a fish is almost a holy quest.   It depends on a lot of factors.  How long since the last time I was out?  Who am I with?  Have I ever fished this body of water before?  What kind of reputation does this water have?  Did I get a chance to tie any of those secret weapon flies I’ve been telling all my friends ‘can’t miss’?  How good am I feeling about myself this week?  It’s too complex to reduce to "I went though stage 1 in 1974, stage 2 in 1976, etc." I guess, to me, fishing is a form of play.  The child in me wants to be mature and philosophically superior.  But, it’s just a child and is too busy enjoying the pursuit to spend the time and energy analyzing its motives.  When it all comes together and I rise to that ‘higher plateau’, I enjoy the smug feeling.  And, when I’m in my neanderthal frame of reference, I enjoy that too. Just so there is no mistake– I always protect the resource to the best of my knowledge and ability.  I have removed many thousands of yards of monofilament from streams and beaches in my 35+ years. I never go into the woods that I don’t take a trash container and return with any trash I see, can reach, and can carry.  My sons were a little upset when they realized not everyone had a dad that made them pick up trash in the woods.  But, that’s just one of the rules of the game, as I play it! Tight lines and Happy times! Charley

Response:

WHAT IS IT WITH SOME OF YOU GUYS/GALS?  You were new to the sport at one time so why not give a lot of newbies a little slack?  We may be newer to it than you but we certainly do not come to it with any less honorabel intentions.  We too love the outdoors and the total experience.  We too love the idea of learning to excel at the sport.  SO, PLEASE forgive us if we take a spot on the water once in awhile.

Response:

: I’ve been flyfishing for more than a decade, and a couple of years ago I : realized I had reached the fifth level of flyfishing. The levels are: : 1) catch a fish with this hard to operate equipment : 2)catch lots of fish : 3)catch a large fish : 4)catch lots of large fish : 5)just go fishing and soak in the experience, catching fish just a plus… I’m at all these levels, I love to fish and catch fish, whether it’s tarpon in Florida or bluegill down the road, or just watching a trout feed and not wetting a line.  Why limit yourself.  I will fish for anything, anywhere, anytime and enjoy it. John

Response:

The thing of it is, all this competitive junk we heap upon our pursuits more often than not will keep us from enjoying them fully. Don’t worry about your ‘level’, answer the question ‘Am I having fun ?’ If yes, then keep doing it ! An interesting aside, I was recently approached to run a FFing school and was kind of uneasy about it, though I didn’t know why. This string answered my question, think I’ll pass !                                            jc

COME ON!    jeeze!   you guys are relentless!  The level thing was obviously (to me) a tongue in cheek post concerning the realization that that you really *are* here to be in the moment and enjoy your surroundings : 5)just go fishing and soak in the experience, catching fish just a plus…  

If you guys would stop trying to be so damned elitist, you would see that half the posts you flame are posts you would agree with if you would take the time to read them.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have to confess, I’m a little surprised at the simplistic ideology being embraced in this thread.  To believe that any pursuit in life is a straight-line progression from crude to intellectually and spiritually superior is a little naive.  I have fished for 35+ years, 24 of those as a fly-fisher, and I have days when I just want to be out in the environs and every- thing else is secondary and days when catching a fish is almost a holy quest.   I guess, to me, fishing is a form of play.  The child in me wants to be mature and philosophically superior.  But, it’s just a child and is too busy enjoying the pursuit to spend the time and energy analyzing its motives.  When it all comes together and I rise to that ‘higher plateau’, I enjoy the smug feeling.  And, when I’m in my neanderthal frame of reference, I enjoy that too.

Dear Sir, You have summed up quite elonquently what I meant by spirituality.  I don’t recall writing the word "Superior".  I must clarify that my intention was not to convey a sense of superiority.  But, wanted to convey that the whole process represents spiritual growth.  There is no elitism here…..elitism has made me puke for years. JJ

Response:

Question:

One thing to consider if you want to FF from a canoe is that you’ll be only marginally higher out of the water than if you are in a float tube; you can stand up in a cartopper, but a canoe …. Consequently, you might want to consider a longer rod (as the tubers often pack). A 10ft rod will keep your backcast drier than an 8ft one. Or, preferably, work on your casting to keep the back cast out of the water.   Sitting in a canoe you’re at least as high out of the water as you typically are when wading.  So, if you’re hitting the water behind you in a canoe, you’re almost certainly doing the same thing when wading–i.e., you casting could use some help. And improving your casting is cheaper than buying another, longer rod. Emil

I would have to agree there.  Canoes are great.  I use one on Lake Cayuga in NY, and I dont know about anyone else, but if you are somewhat able, I have never had any problems standing. Jon

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I’ve found that if you’re right-handed, it helps to cast from the right side of the canoe, parallel with its length, i.e. not across the beam. And try not to let the stripped line get tangled up in the paddle, float jacket and six-pack and/or your ankle in the bottom of the boat. When the mother of all basses hits, you don’t want to be pulled overboard to your doom like some freshwater Captain Ahab. Course, I could think of worse ways to go…. Sent Via SportsNet On-Line Services Toronto’s Premier Sports and Recreation Service Modem: 416-223-2463    Phone: 416-223-2250 Ext. 33

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Good for you!  I’m convinced float tubes became popular when folks no longer had time to lean to paddle.  For range, keeping dry and all-round fun canoes are are wonderful.  now if you want to get really frisky learn to pole upstream. — ** Louis Bignami, Publisher         http://www.finefishing.com Fine Fishing Internet Magazine                "largest fishing mag on the Net" **

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best thing about fishing from a canoe…even if the fish aren’t bitin’ you’re, well, in that canoe… Tim Walker

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Personally, I love canoes too,they are just prettier and much more versatile than any other watercraft, especially when you add options to a standard canoe. Consider these advantages: -Canoes are inherently more hydrodynamic than a john boat, and move through the water with less effort (how much less depends on hull shape.) -Because they’re streamlined at both ends, canoes move forward easily yet still easily "hold" in a good spot against a swift river current hitting the stern. -A kneeling canoeist can be as stealthy as a float tuber and cover much more water. (Though admittedly, a float tuber can move without having to put the rod down.) – A long, narrow, fast canoe can be converted to a "john boat like"  slow, stable craft by adding solid foam or inflatable sponsons (aka swimmies or water wings). These canoe ‘training wheels’ install in seconds and may not add much drag at all.  They’re a God send when you want to stand up to spot fish or when running unfamiliar big rapids. -Adding gunnel mounted oarlocks or a rowing frame to an already fast canoe will get the lone angler across the lake or up the river faster than any other non-motorized fishing craft (including a kayak). – There are "collapsible canoes" available from Ally and ScanSports which can store in a closet, or travel in the trunk of compact car, a float plane or as checked baggage on an airliner. -You can add a motor mount to almost any canoe for long hauls against wind or current. I could go on, but if you’re only going to get one craft to handle every possible fly fishing situation, get a canoe.  This doesn’t rule out the possibility that for the type of fishing you do most, another craft may be just as good or better.  You be the judge. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When considering a canoe for fishing, make sure you can easily paddle it. Beamy boats are great for short hauls but if you’re going to where the fish are and the other guys in the beamy boats aren’t get a boat that you can paddle.  A solo boat is okay if you don’t have or don’t want any friends.  Suggest a boat in the 14 to 15 foot range that could handle a center paddling position ( add a seat yourself) and then you’d have a boat that could get you there. Good tumblehome to make paddling a little easier.  Suggest learning to fish from the seated or kneeling position…or if you’re real good try standing on the gunwhales 8/]) TK

Response:

: When considering a canoe for fishing, make sure you can easily paddle it. : Beamy boats are great for short hauls but if you’re going to where the : fish are and the other guys in the beamy boats aren’t get a boat that you : can paddle.  A solo boat is okay if you don’t have or don’t want any : friends.  Suggest a boat in the 14 to 15 foot range that could handle a : center paddling position ( add a seat yourself) and then you’d have a boat : that could get you there. Good tumblehome to make paddling a little : easier.  Suggest learning to fish from the seated or kneeling : position…or if you’re real good try standing on the gunwhales 8/]) One thing to consider if you want to FF from a canoe is that you’ll be only marginally higher out of the water than if you are in a float tube; you can stand up in a cartopper, but a canoe …. Consequently, you might want to consider a longer rod (as the tubers often pack). A 10ft rod will keep your backcast drier than an 8ft one. — 3798 Woodland Drive     voice: (604) 368-9315 Trail, BC               data:  (604) 368-9341

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : When considering a canoe for fishing, make sure you can easily paddle it. : Beamy boats are great for short hauls but if you’re going to where the : fish are and the other guys in the beamy boats aren’t get a boat that you : can paddle.  A solo boat is okay if you don’t have or don’t want any : friends.  Suggest a boat in the 14 to 15 foot range that could handle a : center paddling position ( add a seat yourself) and then you’d have a boat : that could get you there. Good tumblehome to make paddling a little : easier.  Suggest learning to fish from the seated or kneeling : position…or if you’re real good try standing on the gunwhales 8/]) One thing to consider if you want to FF from a canoe is that you’ll be only marginally higher out of the water than if you are in a float tube; you can stand up in a cartopper, but a canoe …. Consequently, you might want to consider a longer rod (as the tubers often pack). A 10ft rod will keep your backcast drier than an 8ft one.

Or, preferably, work on your casting to keep the back cast out of the water.   Sitting in a canoe you’re at least as high out of the water as you typically are when wading.  So, if you’re hitting the water behind you in a canoe, you’re almost certainly doing the same thing when wading–i.e., you casting could use some help. And improving your casting is cheaper than buying another, longer rod. Emil Department of Education Phone:  (607) 255-2267 419 Kennedy Hall                Fax:    (607) 255-7905 Cornell University Ithaca, NY 14853

Response:

‘Course, I just think that canoes are wonderful so I’m biased. I can also cast 50′ easily from a sitting position, about as far as I need

to. Any recomemndations for the best 1 person canoe for streams and rivers? Thanx, Mike

Response:

‘Course, I just think that canoes are wonderful so I’m biased. I can also cast 50′ easily from a sitting position, about as far as I need to. Any recomemndations for the best 1 person canoe for streams and rivers? Thanx, Mike

Mike,  I would take a serious look at the OldTown line of canoes. They have a few models that are ideal for your situation. I have the Dicovery 133K and it is a dream to fish from. The ruggedness coupled with the 40 1/2" beam makes it a great fly fishing vessel.                                     Best of Luck,                                                    Jay              /Leave nothing but footprints                                               /                                              /                                             /                                            /                                           /                                       O  /                                       |_/o                                       |                                      / |

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Question:

I’m planning fishing Lewiston weekend of May 6. I imagine river will be too high, but how about Lewiston Lake, or maybe even Trinity Lake with a float tube? Any thoughts?

Response:

You will need a float tube to get to where the fish are.  Try fishing right below the dam in the flyfishing only section. I’ve done pretty well down there. MDRPete

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Question:

Hi Mike With out a doubt you should fish Oatka Creek just south of Rochester. I have had extremely good times on that creek. A shop called Carl Coleman Sporting Goods in Spencerport, just west of Rochester has various maps of the areas streams and creeks that are fishable. Carls shop is a somewhat good one. Say Hi to him from me. He can set you up with the correct flies and any other equipment. He has about 5 bamboo rods that I am trying to get off of him but he is always fishing when I call.   No more than a 5 wgt is needed on the majority of the inland creeks and lakes. If you are going for some Steelheads then you will need a 6-9 wgt rod. I use a 2 wgt rod on Oatka and have a ball using it.   The Genesee River is not doing real well for the past 3 years or so. Catch you later Mike & Marie

Response:

Mike: Oatka Creek (West of Rochester) is great in early May. The Henrickson hatch can be fantastic. Another place to try in the Rochester area is Spring Creek in Mumford (it empties into the Oatka). Also, Irondequoit Creek is on the other side of Rochester (East Side). Carl Coleman’s Fly Shop is located on the west side of town on 4786 W. Ridge Road. His phone number is 716-352-4775. Hope this helps. Bob Elliott

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I will be going home for the first time in a long time to Rochester.  I would like to fly fish streams, lakes and or ponds in the area. Potentially in the Finger Lakes area as well.  Any suggestions as tackle, location etc. would be of great help.  Thanks. Tight Lines, Michael Barnes

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