Question:

Segar Grand Max is pretty hot right now.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i like fluoracorbon material since the fish kant see it.  its expensive but works awsome.  have you ever perchased florocarbon from cabelas?  is it good.

Response:

i like fluoracorbon material since the fish kant see it.  its expensive but works awsome.  have you ever perchased florocarbon from cabelas?  is it good.

Everyone I know whose fishing I respect uses the same old Maxima – reliable, strong, doesn’t get in a twist. LC — Lazarus Cooke

Response:

i like fluoracorbon material since the fish kant see it.

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody is around, will berkeley hear it? (the bishop of Cloyne, not the tackle manufacturer in Iowa) Mu

Response:

<Crap snipped. What you write, is an affront to most people

Question:

I know ‘zackly what you mean, Charlie. I spend too much time there also. The guy you referred to is "Mac" who is famous for ruining production rods and then listing them as "restored". His latest kick is plaid signature wraps. But then, there ARE still a few deals showing up daily. I snagged a Courtney Ryley Cooper SB/Doublebuilt for $71 last week and a good friend made off with an unidentified Ray Bergman/Dickerson for the ridiculous sum of $36 + shipping. Vigilance pays off sometimes.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     As an unapologetic gear whore, I spend way too much time (and money) on e-bay. I’ve been burned more than once by bamboo swindlers, lately the crooks seem to outnumber the honest dealers. I just noticed a Heddon#17 that opened at $75.00 more than it is worth, the first (and only) bidder made an opening bid of $150.00 more than the opening price.I recently read about some guys who were indicted for bidding up their own items (utilizing other user names) to create a false sense of interest, and I suspect that is what’s happening with the Heddon. A lot of this crap still goes on, beware of it. When you see so many low end Montagues selling for $85.00 with 4 or 5 total bids, beware of the short tipped Sunbeam that has been bid up to $175.00 by fifteen bidders. Don’t be fooled into thinking something is valuable, just because there appears to be a lot of interest in the item.    Always insist on a return privilege after you’ve won a bid. I’ve been burned three times this year by swindlers who blatantly lied about the product, the worst case being the guy who’s 8′ Redwing arrived as a no-name Japanese rod, worth $35.00.    There are several guys who sell a lot of counterfeit rods on e-bay. One guy out of central Oregon is pretty good, and it takes an expert’s eye to detect some of the working class rods he’s turned into high dollar collectibles. There’s another guy here in Colorado who takes crappy rods, changes the reel seat, and slaps on a coat of glossy varnish. This guy is also in the habit of turning 9′ buggy whips into 7 1/2′ "highly collectibles, rods like this sell for over $1000.00". Do you have any idea what it does to a rod’s castability (a cheap rod that wasn’t good to start with) when you cut 6" out of each section? It pains me just to look at some of his images, which usually depict a way too small ferrule crammed onto a crudely whittled-down section.    With that said, there are some occasional deals to be had. I often skip over the ads that don’t even mention the maker’s name in the header, 99% of them are junkers. Last fall, I bought a mint Edwards salmon rod, the seller didn’t know what it was, and I wasn’t sure until it arrived; I paid less than $200.00 for it. I had no use for a bamboo salmon rod, so I recently swapped it for a 7 1/2′ Granger. So, with a little bit of luck, I’ve come out about even on e-bay.

Response:

I feel for you and have noticed the same thing in the local equivilent, lots of cheap gear with unrealistic prices on them. On the other hand I recently put a scsi card up for auction at half its used value.I was abused for putting a "high" price on it. Damned if I was going to put a $4000 scsi controller (still in shrink wrap) on auction for 30 bucks. There are a hell of a lot of unscrupulous dealers out there and many people the law in the states regarding false claims when selling something. There must be something around to stop them.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     As an unapologetic gear whore, I spend way too much time (and money) on e-bay. I’ve been burned more than once by bamboo swindlers, lately the crooks seem to outnumber the honest dealers. I just noticed a Heddon#17 that opened at $75.00 more than it is worth, the first (and only) bidder made an opening bid of $150.00 more than the opening price.I recently read about some guys who were indicted for bidding up their own items (utilizing other user names) to create a false sense of interest, and I suspect that is what’s happening with the Heddon. A lot of this crap still goes on, beware of it. When you see so many low end Montagues selling for $85.00 with 4 or 5 total bids, beware of the short tipped Sunbeam that has been bid up to $175.00 by fifteen bidders. Don’t be fooled into thinking something is valuable, just because there appears to be a lot of interest in the item.    Always insist on a return privilege after you’ve won a bid. I’ve been burned three times this year by swindlers who blatantly lied about the product, the worst case being the guy who’s 8′ Redwing arrived as a no-name Japanese rod, worth $35.00.    There are several guys who sell a lot of counterfeit rods on e-bay. One guy out of central Oregon is pretty good, and it takes an expert’s eye to detect some of the working class rods he’s turned into high dollar collectibles. There’s another guy here in Colorado who takes crappy rods, changes the reel seat, and slaps on a coat of glossy varnish. This guy is also in the habit of turning 9′ buggy whips into 7 1/2′ "highly collectibles, rods like this sell for over $1000.00". Do you have any idea what it does to a rod’s castability (a cheap rod that wasn’t good to start with) when you cut 6" out of each section? It pains me just to look at some of his images, which usually depict a way too small ferrule crammed onto a crudely whittled-down section.    With that said, there are some occasional deals to be had. I often skip over the ads that don’t even mention the maker’s name in the header, 99% of them are junkers. Last fall, I bought a mint Edwards salmon rod, the seller didn’t know what it was, and I wasn’t sure until it arrived; I paid less than $200.00 for it. I had no use for a bamboo salmon rod, so I recently swapped it for a 7 1/2′ Granger. So, with a little bit of luck, I’ve come out about even on e-bay.

Response:

 I haven’t worked for any sellers and I don’t think  I’m stupid (tho I did take up flyfishing after a fashion  this last year, so may that’s questionable…).  But I  don’t have any interest in planning my life around  eBay pumpkin times to buy Yet Another Thing  that I do not really need.  Whatever this thing that I  can’t live without is, it will inevitably pop up again,  either on eBay or somewhere else.

     Good advise, generally. I let a lot of desirable things go, just because I couldn’t be near the computer at the time of their closing (a man has to fish, you know). The point I tried to make is, if you bid twenty dollars with ten hours till closing, somebody is more likely to come along and outbid you, whereas the same bid right at closing is more likely to get the item. I don’t buy *anything* unless I get a good deal on it, and I’m not the only puter user in the world who recognizes a good deal.      I picked up an item last week that I really wanted, but I couldn’t be around the computer at the time of closing. The item (I’d never seen one like it before) had gone six days without a bid, but I figured other sharks (like me) were circling in the waters. With ten hours to go, I bid twice the opening price (and a third the real value) and left for the day, allowing the proxy bid to do it’s thing. I returned that evening to find I’d won the item for a price just fifty cents under my max. A review of the bid history revealed a bidding war had erupted in the final six minutes of the auction, and I was literally saved by the bell. If I hadn’t won it wouldn’t have mattered anyway, because it’s only stuff.

Response:

 That’s the best advice re eBay.  Further, I would  make that "max you’re willing to pay" at least 20  to 25 percent less than I would be willing to pay  through another venue.  If you get the item and it is  what was advertised, you’ve done well.  If you don’t  get it it’s no big deal, invariably another one will  come along.

Right.  There is a little more risk involved because the people aren’t established businesses.  98% of mine have been fine.  If you use common sense and check for bad feedback, it helps.  Paying with PayPal or other credit card service also helps protect you.  If you’re not buying something pretty rare, and you’re not in a big rush, you can get respectable deals.

Response:

 "Jeff Connelly" Right.  There is a little more risk involved because the people aren’t established businesses.  98% of mine have been fine.  That’s in the same ballpark as my experiences:  I’ve had 2 not very good transactions out of a  total of about 70.

    I have been burned three times out of 100+ transactions. All three of the bad deals were bamboo fly rods; I’ve never gotten a bum deal on other types of merchandise.

Response:

It’s a numbers game.  Play enough and you will get burned.  I wuz 3 out of 100 + and no bamboo rods! John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Jeff Connelly" Right.  There is a little more risk involved because the people aren’t established businesses.  98% of mine have been fine.  That’s in the same ballpark as my experiences:  I’ve had 2 not very good transactions out of a  total of about 70.    I have been burned three times out of 100+ transactions. All three of the bad deals were bamboo fly rods; I’ve never gotten a bum deal on other types of merchandise.

Response:

Good idea and good advice, but not always permitted under eBays rules.  If a seller refuses your return privilege request/demand after you’ve won, he can legitimately post negative feedback about you and eBay would stand behind the seller every time.

Oh, one more thing regarding feedback.  Feedback is only slightly useful because it’s 2-way feedback, and after a number of years I’ve come to the conclusion feedback should be sent to the seller only.  Otherwise, it’s just a game where people know they will usually get negative feedback in retaliation for giving negative feedback.  Therefore, I believe most people don’t give negative feedback ever.  Many sellers have much less negative feedback than they deserve.  One way feedback, such as on Amazon, seems to work much better.  Moral of the story: if an eBay seller has much negative feedback, you should avoid him.  If he doesn’t – well, you really don’t know much.

Response:

    As an unapologetic gear whore, I spend way too much time (and money) on e-bay. I’ve been burned more than once by bamboo swindlers, lately the crooks seem to outnumber the honest dealers. I just noticed a Heddon#17 that opened at $75.00 more than it is worth, the first (and only) bidder made an opening bid of $150.00 more than the opening price.I recently read about some guys who were indicted for bidding up their own items (utilizing other user names) to create a false sense of interest, and I suspect that is what’s happening with the Heddon. A lot of this crap still goes on, beware of it. When you see so many low end Montagues selling for $85.00 with 4 or 5 total bids, beware of the short tipped Sunbeam that has been bid up to $175.00 by fifteen bidders. Don’t be fooled into thinking something is valuable, just because there appears to be a lot of interest in the item.    Always insist on a return privilege after you’ve won a bid. I’ve been burned three times this year by swindlers who blatantly lied about the product, the worst case being the guy who’s 8′ Redwing arrived as a no-name Japanese rod, worth $35.00.    There are several guys who sell a lot of counterfeit rods on e-bay. One guy out of central Oregon is pretty good, and it takes an expert’s eye to detect some of the working class rods he’s turned into high dollar collectibles. There’s another guy here in Colorado who takes crappy rods, changes the reel seat, and slaps on a coat of glossy varnish. This guy is also in the habit of turning 9′ buggy whips into 7 1/2′ "highly collectibles, rods like this sell for over $1000.00". Do you have any idea what it does to a rod’s castability (a cheap rod that wasn’t good to start with) when you cut 6" out of each section? It pains me just to look at some of his images, which usually depict a way too small ferrule crammed onto a crudely whittled-down section.    With that said, there are some occasional deals to be had. I often skip over the ads that don’t even mention the maker’s name in the header, 99% of them are junkers. Last fall, I bought a mint Edwards salmon rod, the seller didn’t know what it was, and I wasn’t sure until it arrived; I paid less than $200.00 for it. I had no use for a bamboo salmon rod, so I recently swapped it for a 7 1/2′ Granger. So, with a little bit of luck, I’ve come out about even on e-bay.

Response:

I just noticed a Heddon#17 that opened at $75.00 more than it is worth, the first (and only) bidder made an opening bid of $150.00 more than the opening price.

   Sorry to add to my own thread, but I just noticed this Heddon has a short tip, so it’s opening price was about $200.00 more than it is worth. It has now been "bid up" to approximately 3X what it’s really worth.    And fwiw, last week I purchased a higher grade Heddon, in better shape. I paid $200.00 + shipping to a reputable dealer from Michigan.

Response:

    As an unapologetic gear whore, I spend way too much time (and money) on e-bay.

As long as you sell (almost) as much as you buy, you’ll be alright What’s that?  You end up buying a lot more than you sell??  :-) I recently read about some guys who were indicted for bidding up their own items (utilizing other user names) to create a false sense of interest, and I suspect that is what’s happening with the Heddon.

Between me and especially my brother we’ve seen a lot of eBay action, and this and much more does go on.  It’s virtually unstoppable in the long run. There’s really only one way around it for the buyer, and it’s quite simple… Don’t be fooled into thinking something is valuable, just because there appears to be a lot of interest in the item.

…know what the value of the item you want to buy.  This is obviously true no matter what you buy – it’s not an eBay thing.  Well, maybe I oversimplified, because in some cases where an item is very rare, it’s the other bids that help you determine its value.  eBay is a good value-meter for things that are not unique, and that a good number of transactions occur for.  For the life of me though, I can’t understand people that bitch and moan because they got outbid "at the last second".  They complain about "poachers", who wait until the auction is a minute from ending, and swoop in with their "guerilla bid".  So freakin’ what?  Proxy bid the max that you’re willing to pay.  There is one thing that sellers can get away with though that’s unethical.  Use a fake name to raise the bid if you think a buyer has proxy-bidded higher than his actual bid.  If you go over it by mistake, just retract the bid.  That way you have a way of knowing how high a person will go, and make him go there.  I don’t think eBay would let you get away with it more than a few times though.    There are several guys who sell a lot of counterfeit rods on e-bay.

The best defense I’ve found against counterfeits, unethical dealers, etc. is a good credit card company.  If you have a good one, they’ll back you up when you refuse payment on an item.  One of the problems with eBay transactions is that there tends to be too many places to lay blame, so everyone points somewhere else.  eBay points to the seller or to a mediator (which is not free), the seller of course won’t help, the payment company (PayPal or whoever) points to the FBI, the FBI isn’t going to take it seriously, or the payment company points to your credit card company.  If your credit card company is good, the buck stops there and you’re covered. I think internet buying and selling is the greatest thing since the electric guitar, but buying rare or unique items without seeing them in person is tough.

Response:

There was one about a month back that I got a kick out of. One of the ebay regulars that refinishes rods with glossy new varnish had a Granger rod – I think. He said it was a Granger rod, however, He replaced the grip with one that didn’t match the original, replaced the reeelseat with an antique aluminum one, replaced the ferrules and guides. He even removed the granger stamp from the rod and wrote Granger on it. Sounds just a little suspicious to me. Paul

    As an unapologetic gear whore, I spend way too much time (and money) on e-bay.

[snip] – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

For the life of me though, I can’t understand

people that bitch and moan because they got outbid "at the last second".  They complain about "poachers", who wait until the auction is a minute from ending, and swoop in with their "guerilla bid".  So freakin’ what?<   I was watching a flyrod on Ebay.  Someone put a bid in with less than a minute to go, only to be aced out by another bidder who got in with 9 seconds left.  Talk about "the last second."  I imagine that next to the last bidder was pissed.

Response:

I was watching a flyrod on Ebay.  Someone put a bid in with less than a minute to go, only to be aced out by another bidder who got in with 9 seconds left.  Talk about "the last second."  I imagine that next to the last bidder was pissed.

In the few instances I’ve been a participant in these last second bids, it’s been fun to watch.   For my part, I’ve never really regretted being beat at the last second.   I bid what I’m willing to pay.   If somebody’s willing to pay more, good for them.   I’ve never felt bad about losing one that way. Joe F.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was watching a flyrod on Ebay.  Someone put a bid in with less than a minute to go, only to be aced out by another bidder who got in with 9 seconds left.  Talk about "the last second."  I imagine that next to the last bidder was pissed. In the few instances I’ve been a participant in these last second bids, it’s been fun to watch.   For my part, I’ve never really regretted being beat at the last second.   I bid what I’m willing to pay.   If somebody’s willing to pay more, good for them.   I’ve never felt bad about losing one that way. Joe F.

joe, the animosity generated plum evades me. back in my golden years when i travelled to quite a few thousand auctions buying antiques, libraries, estates and such, i set my limit….. and since i was pretty much a foolish bidder, if some fool outbid me…. well, congrats, nicely done. all i can say is i never regretted winning and i never regretted nor angered over losing. i take that back…. my only regret is that i didn’t go to 27k on a full bronze figurine at an auction outside of daytona beach one evening….  i believe the fool that out-bid me would have dropped out and i would today be enjoying the finest deco sculpture i’ve ever seen… enjoying daily cuz i never would have sold her…. course, marie probably would have divorced my silly ass. ah well…that’s life…. you win some and you lose some. anyway…. the point being…. at auction, and at ebay, thars a hammer. when it slams down… the *last* bidder wins….tain’t much use losing sleep over it…imho. –walt

Response:

For the life of me though, I can’t understand people that bitch and moan because they got outbid "at the last second".  They complain about "poachers", who wait until the auction is a minute from ending, and swoop in with their "guerilla bid.

     Groundless bitching it is. The earlier a bidding war gets started, the higher the price inevitably goes. You gotta play by the home court rules, and use all the legal tactics. When I see something I *really* want, I get involved in the last couple of minutes. Anybody who hasn’t figured this out doesn’t deserve to win the bid. And anybody who actively bids an item with days to go is either stupid or working for the seller. I think internet buying and selling is the greatest thing since the electric guitar, but buying rare or unique items without seeing them in person is tough.

    Agree

Response:

He said it was a Granger rod, however, He replaced the grip with one that didn’t match the original, replaced the reeelseat with an antique aluminum one, replaced the ferrules and guides. He even removed the granger stamp from the rod and wrote Granger on it. Sounds just a little suspicious to me.

Did it have a number on it, by any chance? {;-) George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

<snip    Always insist on a return privilege after you’ve won a bid. I’ve been burned three times this year by swindlers who blatantly lied about the product, the worst case being the guy who’s 8′ Redwing arrived as a no-name Japanese rod, worth $35.00.

Good idea and good advice, but not always permitted under eBays rules.  If a seller refuses your return privilege request/demand after you’ve won, he can legitimately post negative feedback about you and eBay would stand behind the seller every time.  If you want a return privilege, send the seller an e-mail BEFORE you bid, unless there is some sort of return policy/guarantee in the items description and/or auction terms.  It doesn’t take much negative feedback to get people really turned off about dealing with you.    There are several guys who sell a lot of counterfeit rods on e-bay. One guy out of central Oregon is pretty good, and it takes an expert’s eye to detect some of the working class rods he’s turned into high dollar collectibles. There’s another guy here in Colorado who takes crappy rods, changes the reel seat, and slaps on a coat of glossy varnish. This guy is also in the habit of turning 9′ buggy whips into 7 1/2′ "highly collectibles, rods like this sell for over $1000.00". Do you have any idea what it does to a rod’s castability (a cheap rod that wasn’t good to start with) when you cut 6" out of each section? It pains me just to look at some of his images, which usually depict a way too small ferrule crammed onto a crudely whittled-down section.

Wow.  I haven’t been shopping for bamboo rods, but what you describe here is downright amazing.  Good deal for the seller, I guess.    With that said, there are some occasional deals to be had. I often skip over the ads that don’t even mention the maker’s name in the header, 99% of them are junkers. Last fall, I bought a mint Edwards salmon rod, the seller didn’t know what it was, and I wasn’t sure until it arrived; I paid less than $200.00 for it. I had no use for a bamboo salmon rod, so I recently swapped it for a 7 1/2′ Granger. So, with a little bit of luck, I’ve come out about even on e-bay.

I’ve done more selling than buying on eBay, and none of it fishing-related. As a seller, I can honestly state that I have never ripped anybody off.  One guy did buy an old clone PC from me and he paid more for shipping than he did for the PC.  He may have been a fool, but I didn’t rip him off. As a buyer, my experience is much more limited.  Initially, I wasn’t playing like an eBay vulture–so I always got outbid.  More recently I bought some books and got a tremendous deal.  Six hardback novels from the 70s for less than $20, shipping and all, all in excellent condition. With any sort of ‘collectible’ item, or anything of significant value–say over $100–I’d be careful.  There are LOTS of eBay scam artists out there, and plenty of them never get caught.  A slight misrepresentation can result in a practically valueless item being bid up as if it were the real thing. Caveat Emptor never rang more true than the day eBay arrived. Tom G eBay vulture

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Question:

Is there any small lake fish that cannot be successfully and easily caught with a hook, worm and bobber? I ask this because I am amazed at how much stuff I have to catch bass/muskie/northern etc. that often gets no hits whatsoever, but a meaty nightcrawler almost always sinks the bobber within a few minutes and it’s anyone’s guss what will be pulled out of the water.  I have also noticed that a yellow or green 1-2" curly tail on a jig is almost as good. I am getting tempted to leave my tackle box at home and just bring a small pocket sized box with me containing several hooks, bobbers, plastic curltails in various colors/sizes and jigs. Today I went canoe fishing on Hooker Lake in Kenosha, WI.  I used a 3" floating rapala, a floating frog(green and white), a silver shad colored slug-go fished near top and near bottom, a 4" semi transparent minnow looking thing at all depths, a realistic looking and scented plastic worm about 6"(after a while I even tipped the hook with a real wax worm) and a smallish spinner bait.  I tried every type of presentation I could think of. I fished shallow, I fished deep.  I fished weeds, I fished docks, I fished every bit of structure I could find, I fished open water. I caught nothing for 5 hours, not even a little hit. I saw some guy go out onto his pier in his back yard, throw a nightcrawler/bobber rig into the water and figured he was panfishing. Within 30 seconds he pulled out what had to have been a 20+ inch bass.  I was jealous.  He didn’t even look excited about it, like he was used to this sort of thing. I switched to nightcrawler and bobber. I caught perch, bluegill, bass, an impressively large shad, and almost got into the boat what looked to be a sub legal size northern (don’t know what he was doing in hooker lake.)  all within the 90 minutes I had left before I had to head in. Anyone else feel my pain? — Dave A

Response:

Sorry Dave, no pain felt here.  You were versitile enough to change when you saw someone else catching fish on something you knew caught fish, and you adapted.  Good job…next time, throw out a rod with live bait, and fish with a lure simultaneously, and perhaps the combo rigging will tell you sooner, which presentation they prefer.  Keep at it. — "Mad-Mikey"  At first, fishing and hunting were just hobbies,              then they became addictions taking all my time              and money. If they ever find a cure for these              sicknesses—   I’m refusing treatment. Before you buy.

Response:

Hi Dave! I am mainly a fly fisherman.  I had not dunked a worm since I was about 14… 20+ years ago.  For the past two weeks I have been messing around with worms and I’m having a ball!  I’ve caught walleye, catfish, various panfish and my first ever large mouth bass and drum. Good luck! — Fritz – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there any small lake fish that cannot be successfully and easily caught with a hook, worm and bobber? I ask this because I am amazed at how much stuff I have to catch bass/muskie/northern etc. that often gets no hits whatsoever, but a meaty nightcrawler almost always sinks the bobber within a few minutes and it’s anyone’s guss what will be pulled out of the water.  I have also noticed that a yellow or green 1-2" curly tail on a jig is almost as good. I am getting tempted to leave my tackle box at home and just bring a small pocket sized box with me containing several hooks, bobbers, plastic curltails in various colors/sizes and jigs. Today I went canoe fishing on Hooker Lake in Kenosha, WI.  I used a 3" floating rapala, a floating frog(green and white), a silver shad colored slug-go fished near top and near bottom, a 4" semi transparent minnow looking thing at all depths, a realistic looking and scented plastic worm about 6"(after a while I even tipped the hook with a real wax worm) and a smallish spinner bait.  I tried every type of presentation I could think of. I fished shallow, I fished deep.  I fished weeds, I fished docks, I fished every bit of structure I could find, I fished open water. I caught nothing for 5 hours, not even a little hit. I saw some guy go out onto his pier in his back yard, throw a nightcrawler/bobber rig into the water and figured he was panfishing. Within 30 seconds he pulled out what had to have been a 20+ inch bass.  I was jealous.  He didn’t even look excited about it, like he was used to this sort of thing. I switched to nightcrawler and bobber. I caught perch, bluegill, bass, an impressively large shad, and almost got into the boat what looked to be a sub legal size northern (don’t know what he was doing in hooker lake.)  all within the 90 minutes I had left before I had to head in. Anyone else feel my pain? — Dave A

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Question:

___  I may have erred on the side of the Confederate flag as I’ve been told time and again not to get involved in politics.  But I love the deep south and I can write a book about my fly fishing career there.  In fact, I have. Oh well, chaos is just my nature I suppose.  Sorry Tom. Please forgive me. The turtle retracts his neck back within its shell. The guy everyone loves to hate, Mr. G. — http://www.gink.com/

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___  I may have erred on the side of the Confederate flag as I’ve been told time and again not to get involved in politics.  But I love the deep south and I can write a book about my fly fishing career there.  In fact, I have. Oh well, chaos is just my nature I suppose.  Sorry Tom. Please forgive me. The turtle retracts his neck back within its shell. The guy everyone loves to hate, Mr. G.

IMHO, the Confederate Flag is now used mainly as a symbol of racism. If South Carolina had any regard for their image they’d dump it. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

George writes:  I may have erred on the side of the Confederate flag as I’ve been told time and again not to get involved in politics.  But I love the deep south and I can write a book about my fly fishing career there.  In fact, I have……  Sorry Tom. Please forgive me.

Geez, George, I wasn’t even mad….worth pointing out, however, the SC started flying said flag in the late 1950’s and as such, it was more a statement of racism than confederate patriotism, IMHO.                       Tom Littleton

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Question:

We got an early start on Friday; left Milwaukee at 2 p.m. and managed to find a campsite on the Two Hearted by about an hour after dark.  We looked like something out a Chevy Chase movie.  The Jeep Grand Cherokee had two bicycles strapped onto the rear windshield and a pop-up camper behind.  Jay, Becky, and I had enough gear and supplies among us to last us a great deal longer than the three day weekend we had planned.  This turned out to be a good thing as circumstances caused us to stay a couple of days longer. The High Bridge Campground north of Newberry Michigan has six sites.  We grabbed the first one we saw on Friday night and lucked out.  Site no. 2 sits at the top of a small sand bluff immediately adjacent to the river.  As soon as we got the trailer situated and the engine turned off we could easily hear the water gurgling below us; a most auspicious beginning! Saturday morning Jay and I hit the stream while Becky lounged in camp. We fished it hard for a couple of hours and then met back at camp to compare notes.  Things were not looking good.  Virtually nothing was coming off the water and the fish were in no mood to play with us.  I saw one stone fly, a couple of languid looking caddis, and no mayflies at all.  I found one small rainbow rising in a desultory fashion to something I couldn’t see.  He eventually fell for a well placed EHC and that was the last fish I saw.  Jay did a little better.  He managed half a dozen small rainbows on a bead head hare’s ear.  And this, it would turn out, was to be the most productive fishing session of the trip. Sunday morning found us exploring a bit further downstream.  We took a look at the East Branch of the Two Hearted.  The east branch is a bit smaller than the main branch and Jay found it more to his liking.  We drove a couple miles further up the road to look at Pike Lake.  I was eager to introduce Becky to belly boats and this looked like the place to do it.  We decided to take Jay back to the east branch and then putter around on the lake for a while.  We would pick jay up back at the bridge at 7 or so.  We never made it back to drop him off.  About 3 miles from the bridge I heard a strange noise under the hood of the Jeep.  We stopped and exchanged ideas of where the sound was coming from.  We all agreed that it was coming from somewhere near the top of the engine but that was the best we could do.  Half a mile down the road the power steering failed and by the time I stopped the vehicle the gauges were all over the map.  We opened the hood again and this time there was no doubt where the problem was.  The power steering unit had self destructed. Luckily we had a cell phone.  After a few calls to Newberry we found a towing service with a flat bed that would come and get us.  Unluckily, we were fifteen miles from the nearest paved road.  The wrecker took 3 1/2 hours to get to us.  The intervening time was spent trying to stay away from and to kill as many as possible of THE WORST infestation of horse-flies, deer flies, and those pesky little biters that look just like house flies I have ever seen!  At 95 degrees F., and 90 % humidity we had to stay in the vehicle because it was the only way to control the numbers of flies we were exposed to.  We could either chase them out or kill them with hats or towels or other makeshift fly swatters.  Outside the mob was too big.  Even a constantly waving towel couldn’t keep them off.  We all got many bites! To make a long story short, we had planned to return home on Monday but were forced to stay two extra days while waiting for a new power steering unit to find its way in from the civilized world.  The fish never did bite (water temps were way to high), the flies continued to bite, though with somewhat less vigor as the temperature and humidity fell over the next two days.  We had a couple of lovely thunderstorms and a tornado allegedly touched down with a half miles of us as we sat waiting for a pizza in Newberry on Monday night. Spent a day on the Lake Superior shore hunting agates and enjoyed a great deal more success in this venture than we did fishing.  Not much of a fishing story I’m afraid but it was at least an opportunity to get out of the city for a while.  Everyone enjoyed the outing despite the tribulations. For future reference, it looks like there’s a lot of good water in the eastern U.P.  Will have to give it another try in a cooler season, and definitely recommend the area to anyone who’s never been there.  Big forests, far away from everything. Tight Lines!

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We got an early start on Friday; left Milwaukee at 2 p.m. and managed to

find a campsite on the Two Hearted by about an hour after dark. < <tale of terror and disaster snipped You shoulda fished the Fox. <g

Response:

We got an early start on Friday; left Milwaukee at 2 p.m. and managed to find a campsite on the Two Hearted by about an hour after dark. < <tale of terror and disaster snipped You shoulda fished the Fox. <g

With a ten year old Pathfinder ;^)

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It really nice of you out-of-staters to come and feed the woods critters for us – Several years ago we hiked in from ‘Lone Pine Dump’ and had a great day of fishing – just follow the bear trail

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Question:

I saw the show this morning.  Jerry and the inventor, or marketer, were fishing a trout river for rainbow and brown’s.  They were using it to cast mini jigs according to Jerry.  It was as I said in my original post.  They did seem to get pretty good distance with it and I am sure it is much less obtrusive than a casting bubble to the fish.  Seemed like a nice alternative for the non-flyfisher.  Also, I do think Cabela’s handles them. Jay – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is this what they used to call "spinning tapers"?  They were 14-16′ long and you cast  them with a spinning rod.  The one I had was a Sunset or Courtland and was a size G-A  ( this was in the 60s – before numbers). It work fair on a spinning rod.  It worked best on a fly rod tied directly to the backing You could get a lot of distance out of it.  After I got rid of it I read some of shooting heads and shooting lines.  Do they still sell them? The long distances you could get didn’t require a lot of room behind you. The new Spinfly Line for flyfishing with a spinning rod will be featured on ESPN’s Fishing Hole (Bob McKinnis) this Saturday at 0730 Central Time. The Spinfly Line alows anglers to cast conventional flies with spinning rods and is supposed to be easy to do. BTW, could someone from the Pacific coast advice when this same show would be on the air. Ron Looi  ~       ~~    ~ ~   ..|..    ~           __|__                  ~ ~       /             o  o     o  o         ~     ~~  /~~   |   X    |                                /*_ .//     |||. /_  ||| ||..               ^ . ~//_^ / . -/ / – Boeing Fishin’                                     <  <, Peacock Bass – "www.geocities.com/RainForest/2730/"    <<

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The Spinfly Line alows anglers to cast conventional flies with spinning rods and is supposed to be easy to do. This sounds interesting – hope someone posts a report on it after the show.

I cannot write a report until I have actually tried one out. I seems very easy to cast and when I called Skip Halterman to ask if it would be as easy as it seems he replied with a positive yes, provided we use the appropriate tackle for each spinfly line. I have scanned some pages and put the on my website for download at "www.geocities.com/RainForest/2730/spinfly.zip".  For more information you might want to call Skip or Jade Halterman at 1-800-752-7132. Say you found it on the fishing Newsgroups on Internet On a somewhat-related note, does anyone have any experience with using casting bubbles for big Pike flies?

There is a 300 Grain Spinflyline that is 23 inches long, 3/4 oze., for 14# test and up. Perhaps that would be sufficient for pike flies? Good Fishing. Ron Looi  ~       ~~    ~   ~   ..|..    ~           __|__                  ~ ~       /             o  o     o  o         ~     ~~  /~~   |   X    |                                /*_ .//     |||. /_  ||| ||..               ^ . ~//_^ / . -/ / – Boeing Fishin’                                     <  <, Peacock Bass – "www.geocities.com/RainForest/2730/"    <<

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I have been involved in a foucus group for a well known fly fishing equipment manufacturer who has recently expanded their line to include high end spinning rods. We have been provided 7 through 9wt equivelent WF floating line for these spinning rods, which allow the use of commonly used flies. Keep watching for details. Marshal A. Mellow Senior Tester

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There is a 300 Grain Spinflyline that is 23 inches long, 3/4 oze., for 14# test and up. Perhaps that would be sufficient for pike flies?

Do you know where I can find more information on this?  I phoned Cabalas, and they hadn’t heard of it.

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Do you know where I can find more information on this?  I phoned Cabalas, and they hadn’t heard of it.

I don’t think Cabela’s would have them. It is a very new product. I did post the following information which would be of help :- "I have scanned some pages and put the on my website for download at "www.geocities.com/RainForest/2730/spinfly.zip".  For more information you might want to call Skip or Jade Halterman at 1-800-752-7132. Say you found it on the fishing Newsgroups on Internet". Good fishing Ron Looi  ~       ~~    ~   ~   ..|..    ~           __|__                  ~ ~       /             o  o     o  o         ~     ~~  /~~   |   X    |                                /*_ .//     |||. /_  ||| ||..               ^ . ~//_^ / . -/ / – Boeing Fishin’                                     <  <, Peacock Bass – "www.geocities.com/RainForest/2730/"    <<

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We carry the new Spin Fly lines and would be happy to mail order them to anyone interested.  They are just beginning to get attention here, but have sold very well in Japan over the last year or so (go figure).  You can email us or call us at 1-888-200-0364, toll-free, for details. Check out our Spring Specials at http://www.flash.net/~rhart Lauren Hart, Brazos FlyFishers – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is a 300 Grain Spinflyline that is 23 inches long, 3/4 oze., for 14# test and up. Perhaps that would be sufficient for pike flies? Do you know where I can find more information on this?  I phoned Cabalas, and they hadn’t heard of it.

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: I feel , however, that it takes the fun and : challenge out of using a flyrod. Nonsense…this spinfly line could be used by those who don’t normally use flies as a lead-in to "real" fly fishing…i think fly fisherman are shaking in their pants b/c this line allows the "unwashed masses" of fisherman access to fish and rivers which have been off-limmits to spin fisherman for decades…(b/c of regulations or the finicy nature of wild trout)…just my two cents…   — Pierre (My best friends fly fish, btw)

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this spinfly line could be used by those who don’t normally use flies as a lead-in to "real" fly fishing…

I agree.  While I have one friend that is currently into fly-fishing, and another that is stumbling his way into it, I don’t have the opportunity to take it up yet.  Ridiculous yearly spending caps combined with rotation of who gets what spent on their equipment in my household mean that it will be a couple of years before I can enter the world of true fly-fishing…wives can be such a pain  ;)  These spinflys may give me the opportunity to learn a little before I actually start spending money on my rig.

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The new Spinfly Line for flyfishing with a spinning rod will be featured on ESPN’s Fishing Hole (Bob McKinnis) this Saturday at 0730 Central Time. The Spinfly Line alows anglers to cast conventional flies with spinning rods and is supposed to be easy to do. BTW, could someone from the Pacific coast advice when this same show would be on the air. Ron Looi  ~       ~~    ~   ~   ..|..    ~           __|__                  ~ ~       /             o  o     o  o         ~     ~~  /~~   |   X    |                                /*_ .//     |||. /_  ||| ||..               ^ . ~//_^ / . -/ / – Boeing Fishin’                                     <  <, Peacock Bass – "www.geocities.com/RainForest/2730/"    <<

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The new Spinfly Line for flyfishing with a spinning rod will be featured on ESPN’s Fishing Hole (Bob McKinnis) this Saturday at 0730 Central Time.

 Hi Ron,..Are they any good ? Have you tried any ?Any chance of sending some over ? I feel , however, that it takes the fun and challenge out of using a flyrod. Tonywee.

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Hi Ron,..Are they any good ? Have you tried any ?Any chance of sending some over ? I feel , however, that it takes the fun and challenge out of using a flyrod.

Have not tried them yet and a lot of people here have not even seen it yet or know what the heck I am talking about. I hope someone on the Pacific coast could tell me when ESPN’s Fishing Hole will be on the air this Saturday morning so that I could watch it in action for the first time. Ron Looi  ~       ~~    ~   ~   ..|..    ~           __|__                  ~ ~       /             o  o     o  o         ~     ~~  /~~   |   X    |                                /*_ .//     |||. /_  ||| ||..               ^ . ~//_^ / . -/ / – Boeing Fishin’                                     <  <, Peacock Bass – "www.geocities.com/RainForest/2730/"    <<

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I think that I saw these last year in Cabela’s big fishing catalog.  It is basically a section of floating flyline about 14 inches long with a little bulge in the middle and loops on both ends.  Maybe it’s the worlds shortest double taper!  Anyhow, it would be fun for someone that had a difficult time with a flyrod.  Might pick one up for one of my younger daugthers to use since a flyrod is still too difficult and they like tying their own flies. Right now they use the clear casting bubbles. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Ron,..Are they any good ? Have you tried any ?Any chance of sending some over ? I feel , however, that it takes the fun and challenge out of using a flyrod. Have not tried them yet and a lot of people here have not even seen it yet or know what the heck I am talking about. I hope someone on the Pacific coast could tell me when ESPN’s Fishing Hole will be on the air this Saturday morning so that I could watch it in action for the first time. Ron Looi ~       ~~    ~ ~   ..|..    ~           __|__                  ~ ~     /             o  o     o  o         ~     ~~  /~~  |   X    |                                /*_ .//     |||. /_  ||| ||..               ^ . ~//_^ / . -/ / – Boeing Fishin’                                     <  <, Peacock Bass – "www.geocities.com/RainForest/2730/"    <<

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The Spinfly Line alows anglers to cast conventional flies with spinning rods and is supposed to be easy to do.

This sounds interesting – hope someone posts a report on it after the show. On a somewhat-related note, does anyone have any experience with using casting bubbles for big Pike flies?

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Is this what they used to call "spinning tapers"?  They were 14-16′ long and you cast  them with a spinning rod.  The one I had was a Sunset or Courtland and was a size G-A  ( this was in the 60s – before numbers).   It work fair on a spinning rod.  It worked best on a fly rod tied directly to the backing You could get a lot of distance out of it.  After I got rid of it I read some of shooting heads and shooting lines.  Do they still sell them?   The long distances you could get didn’t require a lot of room behind you. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The new Spinfly Line for flyfishing with a spinning rod will be featured on ESPN’s Fishing Hole (Bob McKinnis) this Saturday at 0730 Central Time. The Spinfly Line alows anglers to cast conventional flies with spinning rods and is supposed to be easy to do. BTW, could someone from the Pacific coast advice when this same show would be on the air. Ron Looi  ~       ~~    ~ ~   ..|..    ~           __|__                  ~ ~       /             o  o     o  o         ~     ~~  /~~   |   X    |                                /*_ .//     |||. /_  ||| ||..               ^ . ~//_^ / . -/ / – Boeing Fishin’                                     <  <, Peacock Bass – "www.geocities.com/RainForest/2730/"    <<

Response:

Question:

3) a downlocking reelseat is easier to install when building the rod    yourself…because uplocking reelseat require that you cut a "pocket"    into the cork grip for the "cap" (not sure if that is the correct    word for the stationary, formed band which holds the forward "foot"    of the reel. I’d add to this:    4) A downlocking reelseat leaves less of a rod butt sticking out for your line to get tangled around.  HPH

             5) A downlocking reelseat is earier to attach a reel to, if the butts down, of course.   Gary C. "Lie ? Me ? Never!  No, no, no, the truth is far too much fun !" – Captain Hook

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… differences between up and downlocking reel seats …

Among those I know, the single biggest deciding factor was that the end-cap on down-locking seats had a tendency to break free (eg, the epoxy wouldn’t hold).  Long after they switched, they’d learn to highlite the advantages of up-locking. My own stats are ~40% of my downlocking end caps pop off within 3 years.  I usually retrieve the cap off the stream bottom (the reel too), severely scratch the inside of the cap, use a razor on the wood seat, and re-epoxy (avoid the 5 minute expoxies).  None of the repaired caps have since fallen off.     (——     (~~~~~~     (     (~~~~~~     (——                 ~ = roughed up interior walls of cap. use                     backside of a exacto razor tip.                 / = barb-like gouges into the wood reel seat.                     most reel seat wood is extremely hard, so                     cutting at an angle of 45 degrees to a depth                     of ~1/32" is all you’ll need. I personally prefer downlocking on trout rods, in part because I gain ~6" rod length in casting because my hand can grasp near the base of the cork. Thomas Gilg

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I’m thinking of building a fly rod (my first), which would probably be a five weight trout rod. Could anyone please illuminate the differences between up and downlocking reel seats for such a rod? Is one easier to work with than the other? I’ve noticed that all the commerical rods seem to use uplocking reel seats. Does anyone know why? Thanks in advance.

If you are using a cigar handle, I don’t think it matters too much.  If you are using a full or half wells handle, you want uplocking, so that the reel is as close to your hand as possible.  This improves the rod feel, in my less than humble opinion.   On the cigar handle, I find that I slide my hand down to the reel, over the reel seat.  I use slip ring reel seats when I build these rods.  I don’t have any problem with them loosening up.   — Andrew Brunette

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One other comment about uplocking reel seats.  I’ve found that I prefer them because when playing a large fish, it’s nice to have that extra extension (even though it’s small) should you put the reel against your chest.  I play larger steelhead and salmon that way using heavier rods…and that’s much of my fishing.  When I hook onto a good sized trout, I tend to revert to old habits every so often.  If you have an exposed rim, then it’s not a good idea to put it against your clothing.  So….that’s one other consideration but only relevant if you have my sometimes bad habit.  I’ve got trout rods that are both uplocking and downlocking….but I wouldn’t want my bigger rods to be downlocking. Barry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m thinking of building a fly rod (my first), which would probably be a five weight trout rod. Could anyone please illuminate the differences between up and downlocking reel seats for such a rod? Is one easier to work with than the other? I’ve noticed that all the commerical rods seem to use uplocking reel seats. Does anyone know why? Thanks in advance. Actually, I think you will find the comercial rods pretty well split betweenup locking and downlocking, but not many slide bands. Here are what I generally hear as to the advantages/disadvantages:    With uplocking you can get the line tangled around the rod butt easier.    With downlocking, your reel gets in the dirt if you put the rod butt on the ground.    There may be a better balance with your reel with one or the other. In general, I don’t think there is a big difference either way. Choose what looks and feels the best to you. Lyman Lyman G. Hughes Dallas, TX Ennis, MT

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m thinking of building a fly rod (my first), which would probably be a five weight trout rod. Could anyone please illuminate the differences between up and downlocking reel seats for such a rod? Is one easier to work with than the other? I’ve noticed that all the commerical rods seem to use uplocking reel seats. Does anyone know why? Thanks in advance. If you are using a cigar handle, I don’t think it matters too much.  If you are using a full or half wells handle, you want uplocking, so that the reel is as close to your hand as possible.  This improves the rod feel, in my less than humble opinion. On the cigar handle, I find that I slide my hand down to the reel, over the reel seat.  I use slip ring reel seats when I build these rods.  I don’t have any problem with them loosening up. — Andrew Brunette

from a usability (as opposed to construction of the rod) perspective: downlocked reels also seem to have a slightly clock pendulum effect – which makes the rod tip waver around a bit – on a light rod this matters a little more since you’ll be wanting to do delicate, accurate casting. hands do slide down to them too

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (Rick Fletcher) writes:   To be serious, I’m interested in your reasons for rule 3.  If you could   describe what works best, I might be able to make up some chemical   reason for your preference.   —   "The scientist formerly known as Rick"   T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Don’t know the compositional difference, but the epoxy I use for rod building is much stronger than the 5 min stuff.  I believe the stuff is made by Flex-Coat, but I am not sure.  Anyway, I did some simple tests and the 5min ranked lowest among the 3 I tried cheers,    -tgades

If you’re looking for the strongest epoxies for a given application, you might  want to contact either Minnesota Mining (3M) Commercial Adhesives or ITW  adhesives of Danvers, MA. Both companies are listed in the Thomas Register and  3M has a full catalog listing there.

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I’m sorry Metaphacts, but tell that to my shoulder after hours of casting with a tip heavy rod.  Static balancing the rod makes a big difference in sensitivity and in reducing fatigue. Peter – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In fact I do get it, I was trying to simplify.  Obviously, the balance point chanes with the amount of line out of reel, as well as the line through guides, and yes I am refering to the static balance point. Static balancing a rod/reel combo means nothing to the casting stroke. Ever.  . The point is some rods are tip heavier then others, If you don’t believe that, just go check some blanks at your local shop.  That does not make them necessarily ‘bad’ rods.  I have an rpl 490-4 that I love but is tip heavier then most.  Generally I find 4 piece rods to fall into this catagory quite often.   It’s a personal thing. The rod you describe is one I returned after fishing it. Absolutely hated the inability to work tough situations (spring creek from 30 feet or less). The rod I chose instead is a dream with a 12ft leader and 15 feet of line out the tip, yet can still heave 70 feet with ease, and accuracy. All with the same line size. That is a balanced rod. BTW, I have a 4 piece rod that is not tip heavy either. My point is that relative to the right rod choice for your casting style and fishing needs, uplocking vs downlocking is trivial. When nyphing, which is what I do alot with this rod, with line out , the balance point (down locking) is in a more desirable place then with the reel moved further up the blank (uplocking), which then shifts the balance point yet closer to the tip, making the rod less pleasing, more tiring to fish on a long 10 hr day.  Subtle, yet noticable. I suggest taping your reel (with line out and also with line on reel), to differenet positions at rear of blank to determine most comfortable balance point for you (static and kinetic).  then find a reel seat that places the reel roughly in that postition. After having said all that, the #1 reason I use downlocking seets is to squeeze an extra inch or two out of ’shorter’ rods, when I use them to nymph. Interesting. I too hold the reel when nymphing with my short rod in a difficult situation. But then my shortest rod is an 8′ 2 wt. Everything else is 9′. The real irony in this is that the stuff Orvis is doing in their Tridents is a more sensible way to balance an overly tip heavy rod. Adding mass in the grip at the hand balances the tip without the increased inertia of adding mass well away from the pivot point. Of course, because the weight is close to the pivot point, it will have to be greater than if you hung it out 6-8 inches behind it. Choosing the material thay have to dampen rod vibrations may or may not be a bonus, depending on how much of the input is damped out along with the excessive vibration. Seems to me like the long way home so to speak. Better to spend a lot more time picking the right blank (by casting finished rods w/ line, leader, and fly) than to be so concerned with reel seats. The right fishing tool is always better, regardless of the reel seat. Cheers, gp

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Hi all, Out here in California we have no down locking reel seats to speaks of. I guess most of the fly fishers out here prefer uplocks. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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No Winstons in California???  I knew that state was weird. Just Kidding. Bob

: Hi all, : Out here in California we have no down locking reel seats to speaks of. : I guess most of the fly fishers out here prefer uplocks.

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I’ve got a different take on down- and up-locking reel seats. If you think of a pendulum, the reel rides farther back of your hand with a down-locking seat. This little 1/2-1" difference can help balance the rod a little more. There’s nothing worse than a top-heavy rod. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Could anyone please illuminate the differences between up and downlocking reel seats for such a rod? Is one easier to work with than the other? I’ve noticed that all the commerical rods seem to use uplocking reel seats. Does anyone know why?

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THE REAL REASON FOR UPLOCKING REEL SEATS: (It’s got nothing to do with center of balance) OK, suppose you have a downlocking real seat.  You screw the locking band down tight.  This forces the reel seat down into the cap, which is attached to the reel seat… how? If it is an all-aluminum seat, it’s probably spot-welded. If you have a wooden insert, it’s probably epoxied on.  So one day you are out fishing, waist deep in a fast riffle.  You notice that your reel feels a little loose, so you tighten the locking band down a little tighter, and then the cap pops off and disappears downstream, never to be seen again.  You make a grab for your reel, but you are too slow and it plummets to the bottom (if you’re lucky; if your drag is set loose and the current is fast, the reel sails off downstream until all of the line and backing are peeled off.) This could happen to you.  (It happened to me…) The two morals of the story: 1.  Never buy another rod with a downlocking reel seat.  With an uplocking seat, the stress is on the threaded sleeve on the end of the reel seat, which at least has a larger glueing surface, so is less likely come adrift. 2.  Never leave the house without a roll of black electricians tape.  A few turns of black tape will hold your reel onto that broken reel seat until you can get it fixed.  In fact, you may find that the tape seems to hold the reel on more solidly than the reel seat did, and not bother to get it fixed. — Kevin Vang Dept. of Mathematics Minot State University Minot, ND 58707

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: And to that I would add: : 3. Never buy a rod from someone who uses 5 minute epoxy to glue up a : reel seat. Geez Phil, what do you suggest?  Should we hold out for the 10 minute stuff or go all the way to 2 hours? To be serious, I’m interested in your reasons for rule 3.  If you could describe what works best, I might be able to make up some chemical reason for your preference. — "The scientist formerly known as Rick" T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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In fact I do get it, I was trying to simplify.  Obviously, the balance point chanes with the amount of line out of reel, as well as the line through guides, and yes I am refering to the static balance point.

Static balancing a rod/reel combo means nothing to the casting stroke. Ever.   . The point is some rods are tip heavier then others, If you don’t believe that, just go check some blanks at your local shop.  That does not make them necessarily ‘bad’ rods.  I have an rpl 490-4 that I love but is tip heavier then most.  Generally I find 4 piece rods to fall into this catagory quite often.  

It’s a personal thing. The rod you describe is one I returned after fishing it.  Absolutely hated the inability to work tough situations (spring creek from 30  feet or less). The rod I chose instead is a dream with a 12ft leader and 15  feet of line out the tip, yet can still heave 70 feet with ease, and accuracy.  All with the same line size. That is a balanced rod. BTW, I have a 4 piece rod that is not tip heavy either. My point is that relative to the right rod choice for your casting style and  fishing needs, uplocking vs downlocking is trivial. When nyphing, which is what I do alot with this rod, with line out , the balance point (down locking) is in a more desirable place then with the reel moved further up the blank (uplocking), which then shifts the balance point yet closer to the tip, making the rod less pleasing, more tiring to fish on a long 10 hr day.  Subtle, yet noticable. I suggest taping your reel (with line out and also with line on reel), to differenet positions at rear of blank to determine most comfortable balance point for you (static and kinetic).  then find a reel seat that places the reel roughly in that postition. After having said all that, the #1 reason I use downlocking seets is to squeeze an extra inch or two out of ’shorter’ rods, when I use them to nymph.

Interesting. I too hold the reel when nymphing with my short rod in a difficult  situation. But then my shortest rod is an 8′ 2 wt. Everything else is 9′. The real irony in this is that the stuff Orvis is doing in their Tridents is a  more sensible way to balance an overly tip heavy rod. Adding mass in the grip  at the hand balances the tip without the increased inertia of adding mass well  away from the pivot point. Of course, because the weight is close to the pivot  point, it will have to be greater than if you hung it out 6-8 inches behind  it. Choosing the material thay have to dampen rod vibrations may or may not be  a bonus, depending on how much of the input is damped out along with the  excessive vibration. Seems to me like the long way home so to speak. Better to spend a lot more time  picking the right blank (by casting finished rods w/ line, leader, and fly)  than to be so concerned with reel seats. The right fishing tool is always  better, regardless of the reel seat. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Cheers, gp

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Downlocking reel seats hold the reel away from your hand and the centre of rotation of the rod while casting. This increases the momentum and makes it harder to stop the rod on the back and forward casting strokes. Uplocking reel seats move the mass the reel towards the centre of the palm and reduce the momentum. Making it easier to accelerate and deccelerate the rod during casting. Jon – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – of a pendulum, the reel rides farther back of your hand with a down-locking seat. This little 1/2-1" difference can help balance the rod a little more. There’s nothing worse than a top-heavy rod. Could anyone please illuminate the differences between up and downlocking reel seats for such a rod? Is one easier to work with than the other? I’ve noticed that all the commerical rods seem to use uplocking reel seats. Does anyone know why?

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I’ve got a different take on down- and up-locking reel seats. If you think of a pendulum, the reel rides farther back of your hand with a down-locking seat. This little 1/2-1" difference can help balance the rod a little more. There’s nothing worse than a top-heavy rod.

That’s not balance.  A balanced outfit  will have a minimum amount of weight as  close to the casting hand as possible. Now you know why Vince Marinaro loved the Orvis CFO. It was the lightest reel  available at the time.

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 I think the point being made is that in many cases you need a ‘heavier’ reel to balance the rod.  So when assembled, balance point is somewhere in top third of grip.  By using a downlocking seat, the reel is moved further back, facilitating the use of a lighter reel while still keeping balance point in the top third of the grip…get it? Cheers, gp – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve got a different take on down- and up-locking reel seats. If you think of a pendulum, the reel rides farther back of your hand with a down-locking seat. This little 1/2-1" difference can help balance the rod a little more. There’s nothing worse than a top-heavy rod. That’s not balance.  A balanced outfit  will have a minimum amount of weight as close to the casting hand as possible. Now you know why Vince Marinaro loved the Orvis CFO. It was the lightest reel available at the time.

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I think the point being made is that in many cases you need a ‘heavier’ reel to balance the rod.  So when assembled, balance point is somewhere in top third of grip.  By using a downlocking seat, the reel is moved further back, facilitating the use of a lighter reel while still keeping balance point in the top third of the grip…get it? Cheers, gp

Uh no. I don’t think you do get it. What you are speaking of is static balance.  It is totally irrelevant. As soon as line is out and you are trying to load  the rod, you have moved the balance point. Since the amount of weight between  the reel and the tip vary with line weight, taper, place in the line taper,  and even the amount of line you have off the reel at your feet at the time,  the balance point you describe changes with every cast.  If you want the best control of the rod, remove the reel and let the line lay  in coils at  your feet. Cast with no reel at all. Start, stop, change of  direction, and all manner of casting become more precise than with any reel,  light or heavy. Adding weight only takes away from the precision, so just pick  what you like. Tip heavy rods that you are trying to "balance" with a heavy reel  are just  that, tip heavy. No matter whose name is on them, they’re probably not very  good fishing tools. However, by  loading some of the newer technology rods with a very heavy reel,  you can damp out some of the undesirable rod vibration that occur in starting,  stopping, and changing direction. But a better idea might be to buy a rod that  doesn’t require such damping in the first place. As for uplocking and downlocking, there have been a number of preferences  expressed. I own them both.  Unless you are custom ordering a rod, you might  want to choose the rod before you worry about which way the reel seat works.

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In fact I do get it, I was trying to simplify.  Obviously, the balance point chanes with the amount of line out of reel, as well as the line through guides, and yes I am refering to the static balance point.  . The point is some rods are tip heavier then others, If you don’t believe that, just go check some blanks at your local shop.  That does not make them necessarily ‘bad’ rods.  I have an rpl 490-4 that I love but is tip heavier then most.  Generally I find 4 piece rods to fall into this catagory quite often.   When nyphing, which is what I do alot with this rod, with line out , the balance point (down locking) is in a more desirable place then with the reel moved further up the blank (uplocking), which then shifts the balance point yet closer to the tip, making the rod less pleasing, more tiring to fish on a long 10 hr day.  Subtle, yet noticable. I suggest taping your reel (with line out and also with line on reel), to differenet positions at rear of blank to determine most comfortable balance point for you (static and kinetic).  then find a reel seat that places the reel roughly in that postition. After having said all that, the #1 reason I use downlocking seets is to squeeze an extra inch or two out of ’shorter’ rods, when I use them to nymph. Cheers, gp – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think the point being made is that in many cases you need a ‘heavier’ reel to balance the rod.  So when assembled, balance point is somewhere in top third of grip.  By using a downlocking seat, the reel is moved further back, facilitating the use of a lighter reel while still keeping balance point in the top third of the grip…get it? Cheers, gp Uh no. I don’t think you do get it. What you are speaking of is static balance. It is totally irrelevant. As soon as line is out and you are trying to load the rod, you have moved the balance point. Since the amount of weight between the reel and the tip vary with line weight, taper, place in the line taper, and even the amount of line you have off the reel at your feet at the time, the balance point you describe changes with every cast. If you want the best control of the rod, remove the reel and let the line lay in coils at  your feet. Cast with no reel at all. Start, stop, change of direction, and all manner of casting become more precise than with any reel, light or heavy. Adding weight only takes away from the precision, so just pick what you like. Tip heavy rods that you are trying to "balance" with a heavy reel  are just that, tip heavy. No matter whose name is on them, they’re probably not very good fishing tools. However, by  loading some of the newer technology rods with a very heavy reel, you can damp out some of the undesirable rod vibration that occur in starting, stopping, and changing direction. But a better idea might be to buy a rod that doesn’t require such damping in the first place. As for uplocking and downlocking, there have been a number of preferences expressed. I own them both.  Unless you are custom ordering a rod, you might want to choose the rod before you worry about which way the reel seat works.

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The differences… 1) an uplocking reelseat puts the reel closer to your hand which is less    tiring (moment = force x length) IF you have a lighter, shorter rod 2) your hand is less likely to loosen the reelseat in an uplocking seat    (but brush is more likely to loosen it) 3) a downlocking reelseat is easier to install when building the rod    yourself…because uplocking reelseat require that you cut a "pocket"    into the cork grip for the "cap" (not sure if that is the correct    word for the stationary, formed band which holds the forward "foot"    of the reel. Hope this helps. George B. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m thinking of building a fly rod (my first), which would probably be a five weight trout rod. Could anyone please illuminate the differences between up and downlocking reel seats for such a rod? Is one easier to work with than the other? I’ve noticed that all the commerical rods seem to use uplocking reel seats. Does anyone know why? Thanks in advance.

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I prefer uplocking.  When casting all day my hand tends to work its way down toward the reel.  Having the reel at the bottom of the grip stops my hand,  and the rod seems to balance better.   I have built a couple of rods using slip rings, but don’t recommend them.  I have had to fish my reel out of the water too often. Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m thinking of building a fly rod (my first), which would probably be a five weight trout rod. Could anyone please illuminate the differences between up and downlocking reel seats for such a rod? Is one easier to work with than the other? Richard T. Whitney

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The differences… 1) an uplocking reelseat puts the reel closer to your hand which is less    tiring (moment = force x length) IF you have a lighter, shorter rod 2) your hand is less likely to loosen the reelseat in an uplocking seat    (but brush is more likely to loosen it) 3) a downlocking reelseat is easier to install when building the rod    yourself…because uplocking reelseat require that you cut a "pocket"    into the cork grip for the "cap" (not sure if that is the correct    word for the stationary, formed band which holds the forward "foot"    of the reel.

I’d add to this:         4) A downlocking reelseat leaves less of a rod butt sticking out for your line to get tangled around.  HPH

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I’m thinking of building a fly rod (my first), which would probably be a five weight trout rod. Could anyone please illuminate the differences between up and downlocking reel seats for such a rod? Is one easier to work with than the other? I’ve noticed that all the commerical rods seem to use uplocking reel seats. Does anyone know why? Thanks in advance.

Response:

I’m thinking of building a fly rod (my first), which would probably be a five weight trout rod. Could anyone please illuminate the differences between up and downlocking reel seats for such a rod? Is one easier to work with than the other? I’ve noticed that all the commerical rods seem to use uplocking reel seats. Does anyone know why? Thanks in advance.

i have an old rod with a down-locking reel seat.  i noticed when my grip was low the reel seat would loosen.  i haven’t had any problems with this on up-locking reel seats. if you are building your rod, i would recommend an up-locking reel seat, since you can do either. chris

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I’m thinking of building a fly rod (my first), which would probably be a five weight trout rod. Could anyone please illuminate the differences between up and downlocking reel seats for such a rod? Is one easier to work with than the other? I’ve noticed that all the commerical rods seem to use uplocking reel seats. Does anyone know why? Thanks in advance.

Actually, I think you will find the comercial rods pretty well split betweenup locking and downlocking, but not many slide bands. Here are what I generally hear as to the advantages/disadvantages:         With uplocking you can get the line tangled around the rod butt easier.         With downlocking, your reel gets in the dirt if you put the rod butt on the ground.         There may be a better balance with your reel with one or the other. In general, I don’t think there is a big difference either way. Choose what looks and feels the best to you. Lyman Lyman G. Hughes Dallas, TX Ennis, MT

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Hello, Many years ago, after I bought my first rod, an Orvis Far and Fine with downlocking reel seat, I read somewhere that uplocking reel seats are less vulnerable to loosening in use.  I have subsequently found by experience that this is true.  Evidently, gravity tends to load the locking ring of the uplocking seat thus helping it to stay locked, but it unloads the screw threads of downlocking seats. Regards, Yuji Sakuma – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Actually, I think you will find the comercial rods pretty well split betweenup locking and downlocking, but not many slide bands. Here are what I generally hear as to the advantages/disadvantages:         With uplocking you can get the line tangled around the rod butt easier.         With downlocking, your reel gets in the dirt if you put the rod butt on the ground.         There may be a better balance with your reel with one or the other. In general, I don’t think there is a big difference either way. Choose what looks and feels the best to you. Lyman Lyman G. Hughes Dallas, TX Ennis, MT

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Question:

Planning a visit to some friends in the Bolinas/Stinson Beach area early in April.  Thought I’d take my flyrod.  Anybody have any suggestions?  I’d be interested in fishing surf or small streams or anything in between, as long as it was close to Bolinas. Thanks, David

There’s a lake in the Point Reyes National Seashore that allegedly has some trout in it (Bass Lake), although I don’t know anyone who has actually fished it. Lagunitas Lake in the Marin Municipal Water District is stocked and artificial lures, no barbs, only. Some of the other lakes in the same area attract lots of bait fisherman. No stream fishing available in the area that I know of. Surf fishing with a fly rod?  Can’t say I’ve ever seen it done, but can’t say I’ve been looking either. Closest stream fishing (steelhead) would be the Russian River. — There is no such thing as a dumb question, but there IS such a thing as a dumb answer – I’ve given some.

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Try the small gas station / fishing shop on the road between Petaluma and Bodega.  George will tell you about fishing the area -especially Tomales bay.  Look on the map for Walker Ck.- which is a misnomer, but hal local currency.  If he is in the phone book, idt will be on BOdega Hiway, I athink. He is guiding on athe Russian R as well. Regards, Cliff

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suggestions?  I’d be interested in fishing surf or small streams or anything in between, as long as it was close to Bolinas.

Depends on how close is close. . . Most of the coastal rivers/streams are not open to fishing in that area, until you get up to the Russian River to the north.  There is good quality perch fishing at that time.  There are 2 or 3 guys who work at Western Sport Shop in San Rafael who i’ve seen out there each spring.  Their number is 415-456-5454. I’d ask for Gene or Noel.  They’ve got some patterns worked up which produce pretty well.  They’re real good on the whole area, too. re: other post The Bass Lake ponds in Pt. Reyes Natl Sea Shore are fun to walk to, but pretty fishless for about the last 10 years. *                                                     *

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Quoting brande from a message in rec.outdoors.fishing.fly    <Planning a visit to some friends in the Bolinas/Stinson Beach area    <early in April.  Thought I’d take my flyrod.  Anybody have any    <suggestions?  I’d be interested in fishing surf or small streams or    <anything in between, as long as it was close to Bolinas. David – You should may be able to catch surf perch off the beaches up there. Also, Russian River is just to the north.  Not too sure of all the specifics as I haven’t lived in NorCal in quite a few years. Jim Carlisle

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Planning a visit to some friends in the Bolinas/Stinson Beach area early in April.  Thought I’d take my flyrod.  Anybody have any suggestions?  I’d be interested in fishing surf or small streams or anything in between, as long as it was close to Bolinas. Thanks, David

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m goin to Watertown NY over labor day. If anybody could put me on to a Musky guide in the area I’d be thrilled. I’m an old Atlantic salmon/trout flyfishing guide myself and certainly would be willing to share my expertise (?? ) with anyone out there in exchange for a trip. Also, my brother has a boat in S. Florida and would be willing to reciprocate in a similar manner. Cal "dreamin of skee" Harris

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I’m goin to Watertown NY over labor day. If anybody could put me on to a Musky guide in the area I’d be thrilled. I’m an old Atlantic salmon/trout flyfishing guide myself and certainly would be willing to share my expertise (?? ) with anyone out there in exchange for a trip. Also, my brother has a boat in S. Florida and would be willing to reciprocate in a similar manner. Cal "dreamin of skee" Harris

Call Bill & Jack’s Marina in Fishers Landing at 315-686-3592. Bill has been there for many many years and knows the river and guides. He isn’t a guide himself but I’m sure he could recommend a good one. Jack Paul Hereford, Pa 18056

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Question:

   January 10 I will be taking a trip to Western Georgia, Raven Gap to be precise.  I have never fished this area and was wondering if anyone could supply me with information regarding waters in this region.  I could use any help you can offer: names and locations of streams and rivers, possible patterns, weather conditions, or perhaps the name and/or number of tackle shops in the area. Thanks in advance, Peter Johnson

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(Matthew H. Hsu) writes:

<<January 10 I will be taking a trip to Western Georgia, Raven Gap to be precise. <<…. Could use any help you can offer, …. Unfortunately, most of Georgia’s trout water will be unavailable to you due to season being closed. Also the western part of the state is not "known" for its trout waters. The Toccoa Rivers & Chattooga Rivers are open year round. as well as a few other smaller streams in the area. Anyway, I use general attracter patterns such as Royal Wulffs for dries and usually have success with small BWO’s. Streamers (buggers & muddler minnows, as well as terrestial imitations are usually good). I don’t do nymphs so can’t help there. Fly shops, the only thing close to a fly shop I know of in north western GA is the Bargain Barn in Jasper GA. There are three shops in Atlanta (Atlanta Fly Fishing Outfitters, The Classic Angler, and The Fish Hawk). The Bargain Barn will probably do a better job of directing you to the year-round water. Anyway, if you are close enough to TN or NC, suggest try and fish there since those state’s essentially have a year round season (some exceptions in NC). Check with the Choo-Choo fly shop in Chattanooga TN for more current info. E-mail me if you need more specific information. Wayne Knight Atlanta, GA

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: Anyway, I use general attracter patterns such as Royal Wulffs for dries : and usually have success with small BWO’s. Streamers (buggers & muddler : minnows, as well as terrestial imitations are usually good). I don’t do : nymphs so can’t help there. I’d suggest a hare’s ear.  my favorite for northern GA.   Steve

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