Question:

I will be on a business trip next week in the Northern Florida area between Jacksonville & Tallahassee and into some parts of Southern Georgia.  If all goes right I will have a day or two of free time on the company and would like to find some areas to go fishing. Can any of you out there direct me to someplace where I might have reasonable chances of catching fish?  What about some Fly or Tackle Shops that I should go to for supplies or advice? Thanks in advance Rob L

Response:

I will be on a business trip next week in the Northern Florida area between Jacksonville & Tallahassee and into some parts of Southern Georgia.  If all goes right I will have a day or two of free time on the company and would like to find some areas to go fishing. Can any of you out there direct me to someplace where I might have reasonable chances of catching fish?  What about some Fly or Tackle Shops that I should go to for supplies or advice? Thanks in advance Rob L

If you’re interested in large Florida bass, try Lake Jackson, just north of Tallahassee and south of Thomasville.  If you are interested in going down to the coast, try Apalachicola or Cedar Key. HTH, R

Response:

Question:

And if you look up the word "gink" in the dictionary, you will find it means "peculiar fellow".  PecuLIAR fits to a tee.

The Dictionary.com definition is (look it up if you don’t believe me): "A man, especially one regarded as foolish or contemptible." That’s about right, I’d say. –Steve

Response:

 Gink, is a trademarked word.  You have made a serious error. Edited typing error:  mad = made All’s Fair With Fur or Feather gg

Response:

No, as a matter of fact. All’s Fair With Fur or Feather gg

Response:

gink, is a trademarked word.  You have mad a serious error. He doesn’t get "mad". He gets "stabby"…

Splork!

Response:

Gink, is a trademarked word.  You have made a serious error.

Sounds like trouble in River City! to gink or not to gink, is that the question?

Response:

to gink or not to gink, is that the question?

http://www.emerchandise.com/images/p/WUB/pdBKWUB0015.jpg — Charlie…

Response:

Welcome back George.  I have always read your post and find them interesting. Things have been pretty dull without you. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I regard Bates book on streamers a George Gehrke

Response:

Thank you BJ.  I’m sitting here in Key West with nothing much to do, on business so I have a little time to write.  I’ll be going to Marathon tomorrow over the key bridges.  I might consider taking a little time off to hunt some permit or bone fish. Anyhow, thank you again, George Gehrke All’s Fair With Fur or Feather gg

Response:

to gink or not to gink, is that the question? http://www.emerchandise.com/images/p/WUB/pdBKWUB0015.jpg — Charlie…

LOL Dr. Suess can’t be wrong!

Response:

Steve writes: to gink or not to gink, is that the question? http://www.emerchandise.com/images/p/WUB/pdBKWUB0015.jpg — Charlie… LOL Dr. Suess can’t be wrong!

And if you look up the word "gink" in the dictionary, you will find it means "peculiar fellow".  PecuLIAR fits to a tee.   Dave

Response:

Hi George, Have you seen Norm Norlander tie at one of the shows?  He is pretty wild with that vise. I told him if he came to my shop and tied every day, boy we could sell some vises. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop http://www.kiene.com 800/4000FLY USA toll free

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I regard Bates book on streamers a classic for modern times mainly because the materials are logged accurately.  I find myself going back to Bates tying instructions more and more since I purchased the NOR Vise because with it, the materials are spun better and the shapes are well honed due to this rotary’s smooth nature.  Self control can’t be better. Somehow, I enjoy the names of such streamers as "The Black Nosed Dace, The Alaskan Mary Ann, or the classic Mickey Finn," which are explained in perfect detail without being bastardized by modern short cuts or tying techniques which can have a half dozen or more un-original opinions on how to tie the classics.  It’s sacrilege and the new versions of such flies changed in print really makes the art of fly tying these classics a polluted sport. Now, don’t misunderstand me between what I like and dislike when it comes to relieving fly tying material pressures upon the creatures of our realm.  For instance, there just isn’t enough Polar Bears to go around to supply the fur to tie enough Alaskan Mary Ann’s should the Streamer Fly Fishing Public rediscover just how deadly a fly this old mainstay is.  Besides being beautiful just to look at, The Alaskan Mary Ann isn’t known very well today.  If it wasn’t for the fact that the majority of today’s fly fishermen are just as happy to use an artificial substitute to replace the iridescent qualities of Polar Bear Hair, it wouldn’t be a good idea to state this flies praises. Consider, for instance, that one has to kill one, very large, very wild, very remote living, very uncooperative, animal that wants to do just one thing.  Eat you! Is it any wonder that any of us (self included)should be able to figure something else out jus to tie ONE FLY out of one very unusual hide?  The price is just too, too much. However!  Some of us still have some Polar Bear from over fifty years ago and with us, the original Alaskan Mary Ann still lives, via Bates’ versions taken directly from his wonderful classic. Polar Bear is a very difficult fur to duplicate artificially because some of it has a certain gold tinge to it.  I’ve been able to duplicate that in the series of fly tying materials we manufacture. Blending colors can only be best done if you have a sample (and it must be a good sample) from the past.  That said, there are some people in this world who have fly samples tied by Bates and his signature of a fly can be a treasure beyond words.  Rarely is this possible. Whenever I can, I like getting a fly tied by someone who’s tying signature I admire and respect.  Today’s Masters,  such as Dan Byford of Zonker fame is possibly the finest, individual tier I’ve known in my lifetime, along with Dave Whitlock and unsung to most, is the fact that Ernest Schwiebert has magic, artistic hands, when it comes to duplicating that which he loves most and knows most of, entomology beyond your wildest dreams.  What a talent!  I could go on about those who know how to best tie specific flies they have dedicated their lives explaining such as Doug Swisher, for example.  We are blessed by books.  Frankly, in my opinion, fly fishing in America in the last fifty years has produced some of the finest minds ever to enter and entertain the sport.  Some, who still are alive and ongoing to this day are heads and shoulders with such greats of our past as the same individual that gave us "The Quill Gordon". To become a fly fisherman and to be known "as a fly fisherman" is not a gift that is just handed to us.  It requires work and if not years of work, for some its a lifetime of study and dedication.  If any of us thought we knew it all, most would stop fly fishing for it would then become boring, would it not? My life as a fly fisherman is a world in which I’m surrounded by books. Most often I’m afield and learning by doing.  Sometimes, I will sit down and write a short article so as to give back a little of what I’ve learned, if just a wit, a little of that cloak which surrounds me . . . which is my life. So it is, I am in Key West wondering why I’m here without a fly rod? Sometimes we go brain dead and annoy ourselves at the glee of others. George Gehrke

Response:

I regard Bates book on streamers a classic for modern times mainly because the materials are logged accurately.  I find myself going back to Bates tying instructions more and more since I purchased the NOR Vise because with it, the materials are spun better and the shapes are well honed due to this rotary’s smooth nature.  Self control can’t be better. Somehow, I enjoy the names of such streamers as "The Black Nosed Dace, The Alaskan Mary Ann, or the classic Mickey Finn," which are explained in perfect detail without being bastardized by modern short cuts or tying techniques which can have a half dozen or more un-original opinions on how to tie the classics.  It’s sacrilege and the new versions of such flies changed in print really makes the art of fly tying these classics a polluted sport. Now, don’t misunderstand me between what I like and dislike when it comes to relieving fly tying material pressures upon the creatures of our realm.  For instance, there just isn’t enough Polar Bears to go around to supply the fur to tie enough Alaskan Mary Ann’s should the Streamer Fly Fishing Public rediscover just how deadly a fly this old mainstay is.  Besides being beautiful just to look at, The Alaskan Mary Ann isn’t known very well today.  If it wasn’t for the fact that the majority of today’s fly fishermen are just as happy to use an artificial substitute to replace the iridescent qualities of Polar Bear Hair, it wouldn’t be a good idea to state this flies praises. Consider, for instance, that one has to kill one, very large, very wild, very remote living, very uncooperative, animal that wants to do just one thing.  Eat you! Is it any wonder that any of us (self included)should be able to figure something else out jus to tie ONE FLY out of one very unusual hide?  The price is just too, too much. However!  Some of us still have some Polar Bear from over fifty years ago and with us, the original Alaskan Mary Ann still lives, via Bates’ versions taken directly from his wonderful classic. Polar Bear is a very difficult fur to duplicate artificially because some of it has a certain gold tinge to it.  I’ve been able to duplicate that in the series of fly tying materials we manufacture. Blending colors can only be best done if you have a sample (and it must be a good sample) from the past.  That said, there are some people in this world who have fly samples tied by Bates and his signature of a fly can be a treasure beyond words.  Rarely is this possible. Whenever I can, I like getting a fly tied by someone who’s tying signature I admire and respect.  Today’s Masters,  such as Dan Byford of Zonker fame is possibly the finest, individual tier I’ve known in my lifetime, along with Dave Whitlock and unsung to most, is the fact that Ernest Schwiebert has magic, artistic hands, when it comes to duplicating that which he loves most and knows most of, entomology beyond your wildest dreams.  What a talent!  I could go on about those who know how to best tie specific flies they have dedicated their lives explaining such as Doug Swisher, for example.  We are blessed by books.  Frankly, in my opinion, fly fishing in America in the last fifty years has produced some of the finest minds ever to enter and entertain the sport.  Some, who still are alive and ongoing to this day are heads and shoulders with such greats of our past as the same individual that gave us "The Quill Gordon". To become a fly fisherman and to be known "as a fly fisherman" is not a gift that is just handed to us.  It requires work and if not years of work, for some its a lifetime of study and dedication.  If any of us thought we knew it all, most would stop fly fishing for it would then become boring, would it not? My life as a fly fisherman is a world in which I’m surrounded by books. Most often I’m afield and learning by doing.  Sometimes, I will sit down and write a short article so as to give back a little of what I’ve learned, if just a wit, a little of that cloak which surrounds me . . . which is my life. So it is, I am in Key West wondering why I’m here without a fly rod? Sometimes we go brain dead and annoy ourselves at the glee of others. George Gehrke

Response:

gink, is a trademarked word.  You have mad a serious error.

Pissed off a Muppet? — Charlie…

Response:

Gehrke wrote (I think): Some, who still are alive and ongoing to this day are heads and shoulders with such greats of our past as the same individual that gave us "The Quill Gordon".

Ah…Theodore Gordon.  Articulate, knowledgeable, a pleasure to read his notes and letters even after almost 100 years. Of course, he DID tend to fish with more than one fly on the line at a time.  

Response:

gink, is a trademarked word.  You have mad a serious error.

He doesn’t get "mad". He gets "stabby"…

Response:

Besides being beautiful just to look at, The Alaskan Mary Ann isn’t known very well today.  If it wasn’t for the fact that the majority of today’s fly fishermen are just as happy to use an artificial substitute to replace the iridescent qualities of Polar Bear Hair, it wouldn’t be a good idea to state this flies praises.

Sure it would be proper, almost, even close to prefeckion, to state, or even to sing the praises of just such a fly’s if it weren’t for the fact that the iridescent qualities of your writings are standing kneecaps and testicles with the giants who, for way of example, gave us "Natural Born Killers," and the song from the Brady Bunch or thought Clint Eastwood could (or should) sing….you know, the "classics." Sometimes we go brain dead and annoy ourselves at the glee of others.

Uh-huh…you, Prince Charles and Camilla, I suppose… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -George Gehrke

Response:

[snip] Sometimes we go brain dead and annoy ourselves at the glee of others. George Gehrke

SOMETIMES?

Response:

gink, is a trademarked word.  You have mad a serious error. Mr. George Gehrke All’s Fair With Fur or Feather gg

Response:

gink, is a trademarked word.  You have mad a serious error.

Me mad… never. I’m quite easy going. However, Go blow it up your arse. Note the live/dead indications from the US Patent and trademark data base: Word Mark GINK Goods and Services IC 028. US 022 023 038 050. G & S: dolls. FIRST USE: 19971101. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19971101 Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 75234905 Filing Date February 3, 1997 Filed ITU FILED AS ITU Published for Opposition November 4, 1997 Registration Number 2219512 Registration Date January 19, 1999 Owner (REGISTRANT) JIM HENSON COMPANY, INC., THE CORPORATION NEW YORK 117 EAST 69 ST. NEW YORK NEW YORK 10024 Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED Attorney of Record LAWRENCE E APOLZON Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Live/Dead Indicator LIVE Word Mark GINK Goods and Services (CANCELLED) IC 028. US 022. G & S: FLY FLOATANT (FLY DRESSING USED IN FLY FISHING). FIRST USE: 19730000. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19730301 Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 73808656 Filing Date June 23, 1989 Published for Opposition November 14, 1989 Registration Number 1763001 Registration Date April 6, 1993 Owner (REGISTRANT) GEHRKE, GEORGE E. INDIVIDUAL UNITED STATES DRAWER 705 HAMILTON MONTANA 59840 Attorney of Record WILLIAM E. WEST Prior Registrations 1110612;1253453 Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Live/Dead Indicator DEAD Cancellation Date October 11, 1999 Word Mark G GINK Goods and Services (EXPIRED) IC 001. US 006. G & S: Fly Floatant (Fly Dressing Used in Fly Fishing). FIRST USE: 19730301. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19730301 Mark Drawing Code (3) DESIGN PLUS WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS Design Search Code 260111 260117 Serial Number 73344349 Filing Date February 2, 1982 Published for Opposition July 19, 1983 Registration Number 1253453 Registration Date October 11, 1983 Owner (REGISTRANT) Gehrke; George E. d.b.a. Gehrke Enterprises INDIVIDUAL UNITED STATES Holman Rd. & County Rd. 120 Salida COLORADO 81201 Attorney of Record Cathy A. Ptolemy Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Live/Dead Indicator DEAD Word Mark GEHRKE’S GINK Goods and Services (CANCELLED) IC 028. G & S: NO GOODS/SERVICES STATEMENT ON TRAM Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 81021616 Filing Date 0000 Registration Number 1021616 Registration Date September 30, 1975 Owner (REGISTRANT) Fly Fisherman’s Bookcase, Inc., The UNKNOWN Croton-on-Hudson NEW YORK Register PRINCIPAL Live/Dead Indicator DEAD Cancellation Date February 23, 1982

Response:

Question:

I’ve used a Discovery 17 regular stern with a motor mount as a fishing "boat" on rivers and small lakes.  A canoe is a great way to get around by paddle.  A motor just doesn’t work all that well, unless you’ve a a fairly wide boat with some kind of keel.  But I’ve done it and would continue to do so, if I couldn’t get my hands on a boat.  And then you’re not talking about a true canoe, anyway. I’d get a carolina skiff or a jonboat for what you want to do.  You’ll be able to stand and move around much more easily.  But if you’re wanting to cartop, then the Sportboat will work.  Just remember that canoes are really for paddling in the 15 to 18 foot size. Best of all, get a river dory, mount a small motor, and you’re set for all kinds of fishing in small lakes and any kind of river.  Great casting platforms.  Great stability.  Can tow with almost any car due to light weight. Mike

Response:

I realy enjoy my guide 147.  I just got an outrigger for additional stability while fishing in lakes.  they work very well and cost about $200, and clamp on, no perminate holes.  One can stand in their canoe with the outrigger…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello was thinking of buying an old town discovery sport 17 foot square stern canoe for fly fishing with my wife.  Does anyone have any comments about this model.  I’m particularly interested in using it for lakes and ponds with a trolling motor at times.  I’m also interested to know how it would handle on slow moving rivers. tia minkaz

Response:

Hello was thinking of buying an old town discovery sport 17 foot square stern canoe for fly fishing with my wife.  Does anyone have any comments about this model.  I’m particularly interested in using it for lakes and ponds with a trolling motor at times.  I’m also interested to know how it would handle on slow moving rivers. tia minkaz

Response:

Having just visited the Old Town web site a couple of days ago, your post caught my eye right away. While I can’t give any personal advice directly, you should check out their site if you haven’t already been there.  It’s exceptional, both with respect to lots of information and also, it’s easy to navigate. Their address is:  http://www.otccanoe.com/ They do have a dealer locator option on their menu choices which may come in handy in case you don’t get the sought after responses to your post here. Regards, Trent Roberson —  Rx F Fish — For your good health, Fly Fish     A Datasource about Fly Fishing Topics            http://www.rxffish.com           Discussion & Chat Groups      http://www.studio128.net/rxffish_1            Free Business Listings Fly Fishing related Companies & Organizations      http://rxffish.com/data_input.htm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello was thinking of buying an old town discovery sport 17 foot square stern canoe for fly fishing with my wife.  Does anyone have any comments about this model.  I’m particularly interested in using it for lakes and ponds with a trolling motor at times.  I’m also interested to know how it would handle on slow moving rivers. tia minkaz

Response:

Hello was thinking of buying an old town discovery sport 17 foot square stern canoe for fly fishing with my wife.  Does anyone have any comments about this model.  I’m particularly interested in using it for lakes and ponds with a trolling motor at times.  I’m also interested to know how it would handle on slow moving rivers.

I own a Discovery 174 (pointy ends) that I like a lot.   It’s quite stable, tracks well, and lightwei…..     Okay, it’s stable & tracks well. Actually, it weighs in at a mere 84 pounds, & I can handle it myself, but it’s a beast to lift overhead.   I fitted it with a removeable motor mount and a 35# thrust electric motor & it moves right along on lakes.   I expect that a square transom would only make it better for that.   I even did some mild whitewater with it once, but that was hell on the cosmetics – I wouldn’t recommend it.   Slow rivers should be no problem. Joe F.

Response:

Hello was thinking of buying an old town discovery sport 17 foot square stern canoe for fly fishing with my wife.  Does anyone have any comments about this model.  I’m particularly interested in using it for lakes and ponds with a trolling motor at times.  I’m also interested to know how it would handle on slow moving rivers. tia minkaz

I can’t comment on that particular model, but I can tell you my (and my family’s) experience with Old Town has been wonderful,  if about 100 years and at least 3 generations (including a still-used ‘glassed over canvasback) says anything.   As to square sterns, don’t like them.  What we have is a bracket that mounts on the gunwale, and it has handled up to around a 7.5 hp (a 5 or less will do fine, but the dink pusher was handy).  That way, when paddles are in order, you still have a canoe, not a stretched skiff…<G.   That said, if I were buying as a new user (or could only have one) today, I’d at least consider a Grumman (or similar) aluminium – light, manueverable,  you can remove dents with a mallet, and best of all, weldable. Patching ‘glass-type material is a pain, and if you wrap such a boat, it is done. I also went to the site, and Crosslink 3 might be better than ‘glass type materials, but I still think aluminium is the best for a one-boat fleet…<G. HTH? R

Response:

Hello was thinking of buying an old town discovery sport 17 foot square stern canoe for fly fishing with my wife.  Does anyone have any comments about this model.  I’m particularly interested in using it for lakes and ponds with a trolling motor at times.  I’m also interested to know how it would handle on slow moving rivers. tia minkaz: I have a DS17 square stern that we use with an 8 hp motor for Atlantic salmon fishing on large rivers. It is very stable because it is wide, and quite heavy (118 lb).  We also pole it on fast rivers, and it is a bit of a pig in comparison with narrower canoes, but it’s OK.  It would be fine for paddling or running a trolling motor on slow rivers, ponds and small lakes (<250 acres).  I’d go to a DS15 for this.  It will give the stability without so much weight. JB

Response:

Question:

Will be fishing at Spinney and/or Eleven Mile in a few days.  Any info on northern pike or other fishing would be appreciated.  Thanks

Response:

Will be fishing at Spinney and/or Eleven Mile in a few days.  Any info on northern pike or other fishing would be appreciated.  Thanks

Big spoons in the 2-3 ft deep weedy shallows if you are casting. Black or yellow zonkers or BIG wolly buggers in the same place if you are fly fishing. If you have to fish from shore, you are pretty much out of luck. cheers oz

Response:

Call this number for info- 1-719-748-3424  Elevenmile Store This is an article(1997) from Fishng & Hunting MAG Sleep Late, then fish the shallows at Elevenmile Resevoir and you’ll catch Northern Pike.  Pike aren’t noted for being early feeders so theres no point in fishing the lake until after 10 am.  The bite gets underway in late morning, then it tapers off in early afternoon and picks back up again around 5:30 pm. Elevenmile is loaded with pike.  The majority of them are in he 18-26 inch range but there are some fish over 30 inches in the lake, and probably some are getting close to 40 inches now. Some of the favorite spots include: Parking lot cove- west of the Corral Cove parking lot East Bay The Columnist, Ed Marsh prefers to use Stickbaits, like the Luhr Jenson Minnow in the fire tiger pattern(4 1/2 inches) All of the coves mentioned are shallow and weedy, and you definetly need waders to fish them properly.  From the shoreline you simply cannot cast far enough to cover enough water for fishing. Another bit of advice.  If you go there, the afternoons here in Colorado are very windy, so don’t go too far in a belly boat(Experience!) Most people I know who go to Elevinemile for pike use large Rapalas colored like Rainbow Trout and do pretty well. Also, if you use smaller spoons, you’ll probably hook up with some of the trout that haven’t been eaten by the Pike! Dan Dow Check my page- http://community-2.webtv.net/dandow/KINGFISHEROFTHEWORLD/page2.html thanks!

Response:

Going to Colorado next week to fish for northern pike.  Any tips would be appreciated.  Thanks, Ed.

Response:

where do you expect to find northern pike in Colorado? there  are a few lakes on the front range where the tiger musky has been stocked but i never heard of any northern in colorado.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Going to Colorado next week to fish for northern pike.  Any tips would be appreciated.  Thanks, Ed.

Response:

What lakes are you fishing?  Bring your coat! Going to Colorado next week to fish for northern pike.  Any tips would be appreciated.  Thanks, Ed.

Before you buy.

Response:

From what I’ve heard, there’s plenty of pike in various Colorado lakes, albiet I’ve heard there somewhat over populated and sizes tend to run on the hammer handle size. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – where do you expect to find northern pike in Colorado? there  are a few lakes on the front range where the tiger musky has been stocked but i never heard of any northern in colorado. Going to Colorado next week to fish for northern pike.  Any tips would be appreciated.  Thanks, Ed.

Response:

Spinney Mountain Reservoir has plenty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – From what I’ve heard, there’s plenty of pike in various Colorado lakes, albiet I’ve heard there somewhat over populated and sizes tend to run on the hammer handle size. where do you expect to find northern pike in Colorado? there  are a few lakes on the front range where the tiger musky has been stocked but i never heard of any northern in colorado. Going to Colorado next week to fish for northern pike.  Any tips would be appreciated.  Thanks, Ed.

Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

I’ll cook up some wild rice the night before along with a chiffonnade of whatever root vegetables October brings to market in that part of North Carolina and we’ll have a proper feast. A dry reisling would be good but I’m not slavish to the notion of white’s with fish. My latest "find", and all my "finds" are under $15, is the 1996 Syrah from Lonetree winery. Highly recommended and perfect for a crisp fall lunch of fresh trout in the Smokies. http://www.lonetreewine.com/ http://winetoday.com/reviews/0002241.html — Ken Fortenberry

Uhh, Ken how come you only brought Bud when PJ and I accompanied the two of you?  Four’s a crowd?    The next hike up Snowbird better include all the fixin’s.  :) Peter

Response:

peter…you mean you didn’t get any of the coq-au-vin ken whipped up trailside on snowbird?  he assured me he was going to save some for you and pj…the white wine wasn’t that good, so you didn’t miss much there. jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ll cook up some wild rice the night before along with a chiffonnade of whatever root vegetables October brings to market in that part of North Carolina and we’ll have a proper feast. A dry reisling would be good but I’m not slavish to the notion of white’s with fish. My latest "find", and all my "finds" are under $15, is the 1996 Syrah from Lonetree winery. Highly recommended and perfect for a crisp fall lunch of fresh trout in the Smokies. http://www.lonetreewine.com/ http://winetoday.com/reviews/0002241.html — Ken Fortenberry Uhh, Ken how come you only brought Bud when PJ and I accompanied the two of you?  Four’s a crowd?    The next hike up Snowbird better include all the fixin’s.  :) Peter

Response:

Uhh, Ken how come you only brought Bud when PJ and I accompanied the two of you?  

As you recall, I was trying to "be like Mike" and had the grandmother of all hangovers that day. Bud, and as it happens Wild Turkey and screaming suicidal death rides, are therapeutic in such cases, food definitely is not. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Max, Would a fly fishing rod that I can collapse (to fit in or tie to a backpack) just be a waste of time, or would I not notice much difference while casting?

Collapsable rods are a joke for fly fishing.  If you _must_ have compactness, get a 3 or 4 piece fly rod.  But, before you spend the bucks for that, try a trip with your regular 2-pc rod. My backpack has "ski-sleeves" behind the side pockets and I’ve found that I can easily carry an 8 or 9 foot, 2-pc rod with no inconvenience. Has anyone every used these?  Would it be a good backpacking/fly fishing tactic to use a set of these with a set of thin hip waders?

Try a pair of neoprene socks over flyweight waders — and a pair of Tevas.   Any other tips for integrating backpacking and fly fishing into the same outing?

Butter Salt Pepper Lemon juice Aluminum foil My first fly fishing experience was on a backpacking trip to some high Sierra lakes.  Having absolutely no confidence in my ability to catch fish, we packed in a full supply of food. Three days later, we packed out our full supply of food — except for the butter, salt, pepper, lemon juice and aluminum foil.  We’d lucked onto a lake full of brookies on the brink of overpopulation. Absolutely gorged on them. If you expect there’ll still be a fair amount of snow around, add some zip-lock bags, chopped onion & bell peppers and lime juice.  Dice your fish. Mix it with the onion & peppers. Put the mixture in a zip-lock and add plenty of lime juice.  Bury it in a snow bank for several hours.  The French call this raw fish preparation ceviche.  Mmmmm, mmmmm! Wes Peterson

Response:

 The French call this raw fish preparation ceviche.  

What a coincidence ! That’s EXACTLY what the Mexicans call it. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

 The French call this raw fish preparation ceviche. What a coincidence ! That’s EXACTLY what the Mexicans call it. — Ken Fortenberry

Ken, When I was in Venezuela, the told me it was Peruvian, when I was in Peru, they told me it was Venezuelan. Who knows? Tom — Tom Brown The Signal Group Wake Forest, NC I shall be telling this with a sigh Somewhere ages and ages hence: Two roads diverged in a wood, and I- I took the one less traveled by, And that has made all the difference.             Robert Frost (1874-1963)

Response:

I backpack a lot, and I have recently become addicted to fly fishing.  I would love to integrate the two activities in the same outing.  I have seen the rods that you can collapse.  I have used these types of rods with spinner fishing.  I know that the rod is more important in fly fishing than spinner fishing. Would a fly fishing rod that I can collapse (to fit in or tie to a backpack) just be a waste of time, or would I not notice much difference while casting?

Sage makes some great 5-piece rods, but they’re very expensive. I have a 5-piece 5-weight SP and I love it. Typical of Sage rods, it’s very stiff, but I really couldn’t tell any difference between a 5-piece and a 4-piece. They come with a extra tip, a beautiful, light-weight, 25-inch-long, aluminum rod case, and a lifetime guarantee. One nice thing about these rods is that you can fit them in your carry-on luggage. Sometimes, though, I just take my 2-piece 9-foot Walton Powell and use the PVC rod case as a walking stick! As for wading, if I don’t plan to wade wet I pack my Patagonia breathable waders and lightweight boots. Together, they weigh maybe 3 pounds. Another good investment, if you plan to fish backcountry lakes, would be a lightweight float tube. Bill Kiene recommended the Wood River line to me, and I really like the one I bought — the Summer Breeze model. With a float tube you’re talking about some significant weight, but it’s reasonable for short, easy trips. — something bogus to avoid spam)

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 With Ghee and a light dusting of the flour you can cook up trout meuniere. Hope this helps. — Ken Fortenberry

…ok, ken…fallball…let’s hike the road to nowhere above Noland…you bring the gourmet cookin stuff and i’ll bring…the wine…uh, i’ll also try to catch some trout…looking forward to a streamside meal from chef fortenberry. jeff (in watauga county preparin for an afternoon trout stalkin)

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0] : I backpack a lot, and I have recently become addicted to fly fishing.  I : would love to integrate the two activities in the same outing.  I have seen : the rods that you can collapse.  I have used these types of rods with : spinner fishing.  I know that the rod is more important in fly fishing than : spinner fishing. : Would a fly fishing rod that I can collapse (to fit in or tie to a backpack) : just be a waste of time, or would I not notice much difference while : casting? : I have seen plastic stockings that are designed to fit over a shoe or boot, : and keep the shoes and feet dry.  These were really lightweight, but I’m not : sure if they work. : Has anyone every used these?  Would it be a good backpacking/fly fishing : tactic to use a set of these with a set of thin hip waders? : Any other tips for integrating backpacking and fly fishing into the same : outing? : thanks : Max A lot of rods, perhaps most, from most manufacturers come in 2, 3, and 4 piece versions so you should be able to find a satisfactory rod in your price range. Collapsible rods are junk. The solution I like for wading in the back country is thin hippers with dive booties pulled over them, preferably the kind of booties that dont have zippers. A fanny pack makes a pretty good substitute for a vest. Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories  (remove x’s from email if not      Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971   a spammer) Phone: (650)-857-5491              

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you bring the gourmet cookin stuff and i’ll bring…the wine…uh, i’ll also try to catch some trout…

Four miles up Noland from the "road to nowhere" at the confluence of Mill Creek is the abandoned town of Solola Valley. The park service has put in an outhouse, some picnic tables and a hitchin’ rack for those that use horses. We can hike up to Solola Valley, fish the rest of the morning then repair to one of the picnic tables for a streamside lunch. I’ll cook up some wild rice the night before along with a chiffonnade of whatever root vegetables October brings to market in that part of North Carolina and we’ll have a proper feast. A dry reisling would be good but I’m not slavish to the notion of white’s with fish. My latest "find", and all my "finds" are under $15, is the 1996 Syrah from Lonetree winery. Highly recommended and perfect for a crisp fall lunch of fresh trout in the Smokies. http://www.lonetreewine.com/ http://winetoday.com/reviews/0002241.html — Ken Fortenberry

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I’ll cook up some wild rice the night before along with a chiffonnade of whatever root vegetables October brings to market in that part of North Carolina and we’ll have a proper feast. A dry reisling would be good but I’m not slavish to the notion of white’s with fish. My latest "find", and all my "finds" are under $15, is the 1996 Syrah from Lonetree winery. Highly recommended and perfect for a crisp fall lunch of fresh trout in the Smokies.

        goddammit, forty, if you were a chick, i’d leave home for you. wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -http://www.lonetreewine.com/ http://winetoday.com/reviews/0002241.html — Ken Fortenberry

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alright!!!  …reserve a place at the picnic table for me. everyone other than the chef ought to carry at least one bottle of wine for a proper solola valley wine tasting and trout cook…but, if the smokies scotch tasting was a forecast (or backcast) of events, we might need a horse or two to get out of the valley… jeff   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – you bring the gourmet cookin stuff and i’ll bring…the wine…uh, i’ll also try to catch some trout… Four miles up Noland from the "road to nowhere" at the confluence of Mill Creek is the abandoned town of Solola Valley. The park service has put in an outhouse, some picnic tables and a hitchin’ rack for those that use horses. We can hike up to Solola Valley, fish the rest of the morning then repair to one of the picnic tables for a streamside lunch. I’ll cook up some wild rice the night before along with a chiffonnade of whatever root vegetables October brings to market in that part of North Carolina and we’ll have a proper feast. A dry reisling would be good but I’m not slavish to the notion of white’s with fish. My latest "find", and all my "finds" are under $15, is the 1996 Syrah from Lonetree winery. Highly recommended and perfect for a crisp fall lunch of fresh trout in the Smokies. http://www.lonetreewine.com/ http://winetoday.com/reviews/0002241.html — Ken Fortenberry

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I backpack a lot, and I have recently become addicted to fly fishing. … Any other tips for integrating backpacking and fly fishing into the same outing? Multi piece rods are the way to go. Collapsibles are junk. Get a good 3 or 4 piece rod appropriate for the streams you’ll fish. I’ve heard recommendations here for St. Croix & Cabela’s in the moderate price range, I’m partial to a 3 piece Winston. Leave the vest at home and consolidate flies, leader(s), tippet spool(s), nail clipper, hook hone and thermometer into two pocket size containers. Get a fishing shirt in a neutral color that has two big front pockets with button down flaps big enough to accomodate the two containers mentioned above. For wading I use Teva sandals with a neoprene sock over a silk liner sock and "miracle pants", those nylon hiking/outdoor pants that dry almost instantly. Go to the Indian food store and get a jar of Ghee. It’s clarified butter at a fraction of the price of the backpacker variety. Put some in a small unbreakable container and put that and a bit of flour in with your cook kit. With Ghee and a light dusting of the flour you can cook up trout meuniere.

Agree entirely with the additional suggestions of using a fanny pack.  Not the expensive "fly-fishing" fanny packs that Sage/Simms/et al sell, just some generic one.  And that it’s easy enough to make your own Ghee.  The stuff never spoils so you never have to worry about refrigeration or the heat.  Add a couple spices to your flour ahead of time and you’re good to go. Speaking of which…      - Ken — "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the  initiative in creating the Internet."  - Al Gore

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[snip] I’ve heard recommendations here for St. Croix & Cabela’s in the moderate price range, I’m partial to a 3 piece Winston.

Forty, your predilection for lousy beer is well countered by your taste for fine rods. /daytripper ;^)

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‘grats guys…jeez wine in the apps…. guess ya’ll be geetin sohhffttt… me? ‘morrow…hungover…fishin’ the most beautifil water in the world with pals (wish you were heh) and enjoying this fine art to the fullest… waldo… on the sun spine of g’fatha alright!!!  …reserve a place at the picnic table for me. everyone other than the chef ought to carry at least one bottle of wine for a proper solola valley wine tasting and trout cook…but, if the smokies scotch tasting was a forecast (or backcast) of events, we might need a horse or two to get out of the valley… I don’t have a horse but I expect I could waddle my fat butt up there and *maybe* back<g. Sounds like a great picnic plan. — Charlie…

– Ezflyfish.com                 Blue Ridge Book Gallery Quality Gear & Service        Used & Out-of-Print Books http://www.ezflyfish.com      http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

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walt…hah, no doubt marie must be off the mountain visiting somewhere…it’s past one in the morning, yer well-oiled, acting independent and "manlike",and bangin away on the computer. damn, i’m envious. …if you come along in october, you can use the most excellent wine we’ll be bringin as a chaser for yer wine alternatives – you know, that stuff bottled down in the hollars in mason ("Masson"??) jars, dripped fresh from the coils – actually, you and i probably could use a dip in the "couth" tank from time to time <G. jeff (i’ll not whine before it’s time) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ‘grats guys…jeez wine in the apps…. guess ya’ll be geetin sohhffttt… me? ‘morrow…hungover…fishin’ the most beautifil water in the world with pals (wish you were heh) and enjoying this fine art to the fullest… waldo… on the sun spine of g’fatha alright!!!  …reserve a place at the picnic table for me. everyone other than the chef ought to carry at least one bottle of wine for a proper solola valley wine tasting and trout cook…but, if the smokies scotch tasting was a forecast (or backcast) of events, we might need a horse or two to get out of the valley… I don’t have a horse but I expect I could waddle my fat butt up there and *maybe* back<g. Sounds like a great picnic plan. — Charlie… — Ezflyfish.com                 Blue Ridge Book Gallery Quality Gear & Service        Used & Out-of-Print Books http://www.ezflyfish.com      http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

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        goddammit, forty, if you were a chick, i’d leave home for you. wayno

ROTFLMAO, Wayno Mark Faulkner

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Would a fly fishing rod that I can collapse (to fit in or tie to a backpack) just be a waste of time, or would I not notice much difference while casting?

There are a LOT of multi-piece flyrods that pack down to very managable sizes.  I’ve got a 5pc. Scott rod that can fit INSIDE my daypack and it cost about $200 on clearance.  You don’t need the most expensive rod, just a good tool for the task. Alpine trout do tend to be greedier and so the massive fly selection is not necessary.  Adames, Humpies, mosquitos, Coachmens, Terrestrials (especially ants) keep me in fish all day.  A few nymphs never hurt. I have seen plastic stockings that are designed to fit over a shoe or boot, and keep the shoes and feet dry.  These were really lightweight, but I’m not sure if they work. Has anyone every used these?  Would it be a good backpacking/fly fishing tactic to use a set of these with a set of thin hip waders?

Thin waders, then the bootie, then your Tevas or ratty converse tennies.  If like in the Eastern Sierra, you’re fishing small streams to spooky trout, I spend most of the time on my knees anyway. Any other tips for integrating backpacking and fly fishing into the same outing?

It’s not really that much more stuff to bring.  I started lugging less camera gear and my load lightened immensely. Good Luck Bob

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It’s not really that much more stuff to bring.  I started lugging less camera gear and my load lightened immensely.

Amen about the camera gear. Now I just take disposable cameras. One panoramic and one a normal field-of-view camera. If I’m rafting or doing risky wading I’ll take a waterproof disposable. Actually, you can soak a non-waterproof disposable and the exposed shots will develop fine, as long as the film is dried out before processing. Forget about the rest of the roll, though. The quality of the photos is fine, especially if you’re just going to scan them into a relatively low-resolution digital format. — something bogus to avoid spam)

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For wading I use Teva sandals with a neoprene sock over a silk liner sock and "miracle pants", those nylon hiking/outdoor pants that dry almost instantly.

That’s almost exactly what I do.. although the cold Sierra lakes that I backpack to make it tough to stay in too long.. Go to the Indian food store and get a jar of Ghee. It’s clarified butter at a fraction of the price of the backpacker variety.

That’s EXACTLY what I do.. but, of course, I also pack in a couple of lemons and my own seasoning too.  Worth the weight.. — -Mark/Particle Salad Particle Salad/Noom Room Studio http://home.earthlink.net/~psalad

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Backpacking is the ONLY way to fly!  :) I have a 4-piece rod that I take apart and simply tie to one of the side metal frame pieces of my external frame pack.  I’ve never had trouble, but I wouldn’t take my best rod.. I have a Fenwick spin/fly rod that I take on trips like these so I can reach farther out in the lake (I haven’t packed a float tube yet, though have been considering it lately). My advice.. do it, you won’t regret it! -Mark – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I backpack a lot, and I have recently become addicted to fly fishing.  I would love to integrate the two activities in the same outing.  I have seen the rods that you can collapse.  I have used these types of rods with spinner fishing.  I know that the rod is more important in fly fishing than spinner fishing. Would a fly fishing rod that I can collapse (to fit in or tie to a backpack) just be a waste of time, or would I not notice much difference while casting? I have seen plastic stockings that are designed to fit over a shoe or boot, and keep the shoes and feet dry.  These were really lightweight, but I’m not sure if they work. Has anyone every used these?  Would it be a good backpacking/fly fishing tactic to use a set of these with a set of thin hip waders? Any other tips for integrating backpacking and fly fishing into the same outing? thanks Max

– -Mark/Particle Salad Particle Salad/Noom Room Studio http://home.earthlink.net/~psalad

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<snip Hi Max; Multiple piece rods are fairly popular for backpacking but I’ve always found them somewhat unsatisfactory.  The more pieces you have, the more likely it is that the thing will come apart while casting.  Multiple joints also affect the action of the rod.  I have often carried a standard two piece rod while backpacking and had very little trouble with it.  A 4 1/2 ft. rod case will sometimes catch on low branches or other obstructions but in my experience it has not happened often enough to be considered a major problem. On short trips where weight was not a major consideration I have carried light weight waders and boots.  While this is a very comfortable way to fish I don’t consider the comfort worth the extra weight or space on longer or more arduous trips.  In such cases I bring a pair of Rock Socks or other light weight footwear and wade wet, but I wade wet a lot anyway.  I have found that I’m comfortable in colder water than most of the people I have fished with, so you’ll have to judge for yourself how viable this option is for you. Tight Lines!

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I backpack a lot, and I have recently become addicted to fly fishing. … Any other tips for integrating backpacking and fly fishing into the same outing?

Multi piece rods are the way to go. Collapsibles are junk. Get a good 3 or 4 piece rod appropriate for the streams you’ll fish. I’ve heard recommendations here for St. Croix & Cabela’s in the moderate price range, I’m partial to a 3 piece Winston. Leave the vest at home and consolidate flies, leader(s), tippet spool(s), nail clipper, hook hone and thermometer into two pocket size containers. Get a fishing shirt in a neutral color that has two big front pockets with button down flaps big enough to accomodate the two containers mentioned above. For wading I use Teva sandals with a neoprene sock over a silk liner sock and "miracle pants", those nylon hiking/outdoor pants that dry almost instantly. Go to the Indian food store and get a jar of Ghee. It’s clarified butter at a fraction of the price of the backpacker variety. Put some in a small unbreakable container and put that and a bit of flour in with your cook kit. With Ghee and a light dusting of the flour you can cook up trout meuniere. Hope this helps. — Ken Fortenberry

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I backpack a lot, and I have recently become addicted to fly fishing.  I would love to integrate the two activities in the same outing.  I have seen the rods that you can collapse.  I have used these types of rods with spinner fishing.  I know that the rod is more important in fly fishing than spinner fishing. Would a fly fishing rod that I can collapse (to fit in or tie to a backpack) just be a waste of time, or would I not notice much difference while casting? I have seen plastic stockings that are designed to fit over a shoe or boot, and keep the shoes and feet dry.  These were really lightweight, but I’m not sure if they work. Has anyone every used these?  Would it be a good backpacking/fly fishing tactic to use a set of these with a set of thin hip waders? Any other tips for integrating backpacking and fly fishing into the same outing? thanks Max

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Generally, the ferrule of the rod is stiffer so you may notice the rod has a stiffer action (based on 3 or 4 pieces).  One thing I’ve learned from experience (and I know I will have a lot of opposition here) is that the old fiberglass rods are much more durable than the new graphite rods.  Reason being if your graphite rod drops and hits a rock, you can shatter it and not know it until you take a cast and the rod breaks in half!  Fiberglass doesn’t have this problem.  As an FYI, I’ve also performed the sinful task of attaching a spinning real to the fly rod – works really well if you want options on a trip! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I backpack a lot, and I have recently become addicted to fly fishing.  I would love to integrate the two activities in the same outing.  I have seen the rods that you can collapse.  I have used these types of rods with spinner fishing.  I know that the rod is more important in fly fishing than spinner fishing. Would a fly fishing rod that I can collapse (to fit in or tie to a backpack) just be a waste of time, or would I not notice much difference while casting? I have seen plastic stockings that are designed to fit over a shoe or boot, and keep the shoes and feet dry.  These were really lightweight, but I’m not sure if they work. Has anyone every used these?  Would it be a good backpacking/fly fishing tactic to use a set of these with a set of thin hip waders? Any other tips for integrating backpacking and fly fishing into the same outing? thanks Max

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Question:

Bob, While not in the Akron area, I can give some advice re:  fly fishing in Ohio. Recommend you fish a stream in the tailwaters downstream from a dam.    Barring that, get in the middle of any rocky stream with riffles and fish the pools right up against the bank.  My fishing buddies and I are doing well with a 4 or 5 wt. rod with floating line.  We’re catching smallmouth bass, sunfish and crappie with size 6 or 8 surface pan poppers, Sneaky Pete’s and crickets.  I also have had some luck with a size 6 minnow streamer.  Best time is from sunup ’till late morning. Largemouth don’t appear to be at all active in this summer heat; you can try but I wouldn’t spend a lot of time on them.  It’s not Montana or Wyoming, but we’re having a lot of fun!  Forget the lakes; they’re for boat and bait fishing.  And contrary to what the shops tell you (remember, they sell bait), we fly flingers appear to be the only ones catching fish this summer!  The bait people aren’t doing so hot (unless you like catfish and carp), and people going for the big stuff are walking away empty handed.  Even a lot of the big, bad bass fishermen with their 4 quadrillion horsepower motors are docking their boats during July and August.  The only trout stream is the Mad River west of Columbus in the springtime and steelhead up by Lake Erie in the late Fall.  Good luck and good fishing. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – On my way to ohio for a week 1 Aug, anyone know of any flyfishing to be done there?  I have made some phone calls and the shops all seem to say bring my spinning outfit, which I don’t want to do.  I will be around the Akron area but I will travel to get to a good spot.  Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Bob

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On my way to ohio for a week 1 Aug, anyone know of any flyfishing to be done there?  I have made some phone calls and the shops all seem to say bring my spinning outfit, which I don’t want to do.  I will be around the Akron area but I will travel to get to a good spot.  Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Bob

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If you mean fly-fishing for trout, check out the Clear Fork (south of Mansfield) of the Mad River (around Urbana).  You can find a good write-up of both on the Virtual Flyshop at http://www.flyshop.com/Centers/Midwest/7-98Mad/index.html : On my way to ohio for a week 1 Aug, anyone know of any flyfishing to be done : there?  I have made some phone calls and the shops all seem to say bring my : spinning outfit, which I don’t want to do.  I will be around the Akron area but : I will travel to get to a good spot.  Any info would be greatly appreciated. : Thanks Bob —                        http://members.tripod.com/~trunculo/index

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Sorry to follow-up my own post, but I meant to say Clear Fork *or* Mad River. : If you mean fly-fishing for trout, check out the Clear Fork (south of : Mansfield) of the Mad River (around Urbana).  You can find a good              ^^ —                        http://members.tripod.com/~trunculo/index

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The Mad river is said to be one of the finest trout rivers in the state, however it is a several hour drive to get to it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – On my way to ohio for a week 1 Aug, anyone know of any flyfishing to be done there?  I have made some phone calls and the shops all seem to say bring my spinning outfit, which I don’t want to do.  I will be around the Akron area but I will travel to get to a good spot.  Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Bob

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On my way to ohio for a week 1 Aug, anyone know of any flyfishing to be done there?  I have made some phone calls and the shops all seem to say bring my spinning outfit, which I don’t want to do.  I will be around the Akron area but I will travel to get to a good spot.  Any info would be greatly

appreciated. For trout your best shot in the near-Akron area would be the Clear Fork of the Mohican, down around Mansfield.  I’d guess that’s about 50 miles from Akron, though, so it’d be a long haul. Lately the pond and small lake fishing hasn’t been too good.  Bluegills will still bite, but of course bluegills will *always* bite.  The water has warmed up and the largemouths have developed lockjaw, although you might get lucky.  Try some of the ponds in the Cuyahoga Valley National Recreation Area north of Akron.  Stay OUT of the lower Cuyahoga River – too polluted to mess with. If you can get into the upper Cuyahoga (anywhere upstream of the dam in Cuyahoga Falls) you can probably do alright.  Best of luck. — Bob Jarvis Mail address hacked to foil spammers!

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Question:

A great knot.  I use it for building leaders and for joining tippets.  Easy to tie, and very strong.  I loop it three times on both pieces. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -One knot that you don’t see much of for line-to-line connections is the double or "back-to-back" uni-knot.  Has anybody tried this one besides me? Tinca

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Not sure I recall uni-knots exactly, but I use what I was taught to call "double-grinners" (british term) which may be the same thing. Bulkier than blood-knot but against steelhead they help me.   Easy to tie – after the 600-th time.           -rork.

: A great knot.  I use it for building leaders and for joining tippets.  Easy : to tie, and very strong.  I loop it three times on both pieces. : One knot that you don’t see much of for line-to-line connections is the : double or "back-to-back" uni-knot.  Has anybody tried this one besides : me? : Tinca

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Not sure I recall uni-knots exactly, but I use what I was taught to call "double-grinners" (british term) which may be the same thing. Bulkier than blood-knot but against steelhead they help me.   Easy to tie – after the 600-th time.

How bout some instructions for the colonists Lou B

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Well give the bleeding unit-knot instructions first  :) Really, I was gonna describe it but it is hard to describe knots for me: Double Grinner:     wrap the tag end of strand a around b, about 3-5 times (not so important, just gets some twist set-up).  Bring the tag end back to the start of the wraps – this makes a loop which you now put the tag end through 3-5 times (smaller lines=more times).  You are making the second set of wraps in the same direction and handedness as the first set.    That makes one half of the knot, do the same for the other half as for any knot in the fisherman’s/blood-knot family.  Pull the two ends tight againt each other.  I partially tighted each side first – they "turn inside out" like lotsa other monofilament knots.  I think it’s mentioned in "The trout and the fly".  - also a colonist. Soon out in paper-back:     my decription of the modified Krey’s-improved bimini-twist……

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One knot that you don’t see much of for line-to-line connections is the double or "back-to-back" uni-knot.  Has anybody tried this one besides me?

This is the knot I always use. I also use the Uni(Duncan Loop) for my terminal connection. I have rarely had any problems with breakage at the terminal connection and the only time I have had a break at the tippet/leader was in breaking off a snag. I can not imagine any weakening with the Uni-knot joining the two pieces of line. With the wraps snugging up it seems to be very secure. Also, it is easy! regards, jw        J. Webb (Preferred)    |    Atlanta Mac User Group         jwebb *AT* netdepot *DOT* com |joe_webb *AT* atlmug *DOT* org

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nothing to beat the uni knot for any thing – greta knot for night fishingas you can tie it with your eyes closed. One knot that you don’t see much of for line-to-line connections is the double or "back-to-back" uni-knot.  Has anybody tried this one besides me?

– Tinca

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I’ve done my own tests on several knots, and I really don’t know where this nonsense about the blood knot being stronger than surgeons comes from. None of my tests have ever shown this, and most books I’ve seen confirm this. One knot that you don’t see much of for line-to-line connections is the double or "back-to-back" uni-knot.  Has anybody tried this one besides me?

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’ve done my own tests on several knots, and I really don’t know where this nonsense about the blood knot being stronger than surgeons comes from. None of my tests have ever shown this, and most books I’ve seen confirm this. One knot that you don’t see much of for line-to-line connections is the double or "back-to-back" uni-knot.  Has anybody tried this one besides me? I’ve done my own tests on several knots, and I really don’t know where this nonsense about the blood knot being stronger than surgeons comes from. None of my tests have ever shown this, and most books I’ve seen confirm this. One knot that you don’t see much of for line-to-line connections is the double or "back-to-back" uni-knot.  Has anybody tried this one besides me?

Yeah, I use the uni-knot all the time Bryce

Response:

Mark asks: Hello, Does anyone have any suggestions for  a good strong relatively easy to tie knot for attaching a tippet to a leader.  I know the traditional barrel and double surgens knots.  The problem I’ve been having, which is quite irritating, is the knot that attaches the tippet is weaker than the one attaching the fly, so when I hang up the tippet breaks off  as well as the fly.  When I’m nymph fishing I feel like I spend a great amount of time standing in the creek attaching new tippets.  I switched to a Filson knot to attach the fly to the tippet since I found it was stronger than a clinch knot. I hate the idea of switching to a weaker terminal knot just to save having to retie the tippet each time I hang up, which as you know can be lot.    Has anynone else had this experience and what is the solution.   Thanks, Mark Watson

Mark, I feel there is another issue maybe, buried in here….. that is the *quality* of how one ties a knot….  A poorly tied knot is much weaker than it should be.   I feel several of the knots mentioned ought to get you out of your problem, yet from the post …. seems that doesn’t occur….. makes me think there is a "hidden variable"…. that is the quality of the knot itself and not the design of the knot…..   For "barrel" or blood knots a couple of things… never tie with more than one or 2 thousands difference in the diameters of the leader end and the tippet… otherwise use the loop or the surgeon’s knot…. make the starter set of windings of the blood knot even and unkinked with the two ends pointing in opposite directions.   Wet the total bundle (good ole spit)  and smoothly but firmly pull them taut.   clip excess ends. In teaching this knot to others I have found many who try to pull the knot taut without wetting it or with the preloops not neat and unkinked….   Pratice at home with light tippet and test with a scale until you achieve about 90 % consistently for several knots… Good luck, Alan Alan E. Hoover       to quote one of my favorite authors: "Fly fishing is such great fun, it really ought to be done in bed"  John Voelker, aka Robert Traver

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mark asks: Hello, Does anyone have any suggestions for  a good strong relatively easy to tie knot for attaching a tippet to a leader.  I know the traditional barrel and double surgens knots.  The problem I’ve been having, which is quite irritating, is the knot that attaches the tippet is weaker than the one attaching the fly, so when I hang up the tippet breaks off  as well as the fly.  When I’m nymph fishing I feel like I spend a great amount of time standing in the creek attaching new tippets.  I switched to a Filson knot to attach the fly to the tippet since I found it was stronger than a clinch knot. I hate the idea of switching to a weaker terminal knot just to save having to retie the tippet each time I hang up, which as you know can be lot.    Has anynone else had this experience and what is the solution.   Thanks, Mark Watson

So much good information has come from this post that I hate to even introduce this, but does anyone else other than me use a little dab of Zap-A-Gap on the knots just to make sure? It’s a cyanoacrylate glue much like crazy glue and only takes a few seconds to dry. Maybe it’s a crude remedy but I got tired of losing the fly, tippet, and even more so the fish. — Frank Tosczak

Response:

  There are several terminal mono knots that are "100% strength" knots   (e.g. Trilene knot).     I’ve never seen a test of the trilene knot that rated it 100% – but   it maybe stronger than either a blood or double surgeon. the best you can get out of a blood knot (6 or more barrels) is around 75%.  Surgeon’s is better.  The trilene and I believe the double turle are supposed to be full strength.

FWIW I checked my copy of Lefty kreh/ Mark Sosin’s Pratical Knots II ; the improved clinch was reported to test out at no better than 95%, the Trilene was listed as ’stronger’ than an improved clinch. A Palomar knot was said to be near 100%. The double surgeon loop or it’s half brother the double surgeon were both reported to provide near 100%. The only full 100% knots listed were the doubled loops such as the Bimini twist and the snelled hooks beloved of bait fishers. Ralph H

Response:

  FWIW I checked my copy of Lefty kreh/ Mark Sosin’s Pratical Knots II ;   the improved clinch was reported to test out at no better than 95%, the   Trilene was listed as ’stronger’ than an improved clinch. A Palomar knot was   said to be near 100%. The double surgeon loop or it’s half brother the double   surgeon were both reported to provide near 100%.

Ok, so the trilene knot is 95% strength according to your source. My source says full-strength.  There is no difference between these claims.  Experimental uncertainty would easily cover such a trivial difference. As for the double surgeon’s knot, I really don’t think it is even close to 100%.  If it were, is that to say that the "triple surgeon’s" knot is redundant?  I can easily be wrong.  But the flyfisherman article I recall claimed that the best line-to-line knots are still <90% – including the double surgeons etc.  Again, I could easily be wrong.  My own experience with all these line-to-line knots confirms that they are weaker than terminal knots.  But who am I to argue with Lefty kreh eh? Anyway, I don’t get too worried about all this.  I use =8lb test and the only time I ever break my line is when I screw up and do something dumbassed on a fish or when I get snagged.  I don’t think that my 14′ 9wt rod is even capable of breaking 8lb test line. By the way, for anyone interested, the virtual flyshop (www.flyshop.com I think) has a nice set of drawings on how to tie any of the knots mentioned in this discussion. cheers,         -tgades (a good-old 6-barrel bloodknot aficionado) — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html email: replace the "this_address_is_wrong" with "tgades"

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   the double surgeon should be stronger than the knot to the fly if tied   properly. Be sure to wet the knot tighten slowly and DO NOT tighten apply the   final tightening pull to the tag ends only to the main line. Tightening the   tag ends binds the main line and considerably weakens the knot.   Ralph H There are several terminal mono knots that are "100% strength" knots (e.g. Trilene knot).  While strong, I don’t think I’ve seen results of tests of any line-to-line knots (including the double surgeon) that can do 100%. cheers,        -tgades

I’ve never seen a test of the trilene knot that rated it 100% – but it maybe stronger than either a blood or double surgeon. By the way welcome back, how was your trip to the balmy south. Ralph H

Response:

I’ve used the barrel knot for years with a Turl (sp?) Knot for fly connection and it’s always worked well.  Is it that you don’t want to tie a barrel knot???  Or that your barrel knot is breaking?   Or that you are using a knot to connect the fly that is a stronger knot than the barrel knot?

The basic problem is that the knot the knot I’ve been using to attach the fly (a filson knot) is much stronger than any barrel or double surgeons I’ve been able to tie.  Previously I always used a clinch knot for the fly, but I found a stronger knot for the terminal end, so I was hoping to find one for the tippet/leader junction.    (I also dislike tying the barrell knot especially in the late evening when fish are rising all around and its hard to see) I could solve my problem by switching back to a weaker knot to attach the fly.  From the sound of some of the other posters that sounds like the way to go, but I was hoping that someone would have a better solution. Thanks again, Mark Watson

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve used the barrel knot for years with a Turl (sp?) Knot for fly connection and it’s always worked well.  Is it that you don’t want to tie a barrel knot???  Or that your barrel knot is breaking?   Or that you are using a knot to connect the fly that is a stronger knot than the barrel knot? Barry Hello, Does anyone have any suggestions for  a good strong relatively easy to tie knot for attaching a tippet to a leader.  I know the traditional barrel and double surgens knots.  The problem I’ve been having, which is quite irritating, is the knot that attaches the tippet is weaker than the one attaching the fly, so when I hang up the tippet breaks off  as well as the fly.  When I’m nymph fishing I feel like I spend a great amount of time standing in the creek attaching new tippets.  I switched to a Filson knot to attach the fly to the tippet since I found it was stronger than a clinch knot. I hate the idea of switching to a weaker terminal knot just to save having to retie the tippet each time I hang up, which as you know can be lot.    Has anynone else had this experience and what is the solution. Thanks, Mark Watson

I use a loop to loop connection, with a loop knot the name of which I can’t recall, but it’s in lefty kreh and mark sosin’s knot book.  I use a clinch knot for the fly connection, and that almost always breaks first.  Even if it doesn’t, the knot that breaks is the tippet side of the loop to loop, so I just make a new tippet, and attach it, with no overall leader length loss.  Works great, you should try it. — Andrew Brunette

Response:

   There are several terminal mono knots that are "100% strength" knots    (e.g. Trilene knot).  While strong, I don’t think I’ve seen results of    tests of any line-to-line knots (including the double surgeon) that    can do 100%.        cheers,                -tgades       I’ve never seen a test of the trilene knot that rated it 100% – but   it maybe stronger than either a blood or double surgeon.

the best you can get out of a blood knot (6 or more barrels) is around 75%.  Surgeon’s is better.  The trilene and I believe the double turle are supposed to be full strength.   By the way welcome back, how was your trip to the balmy south.

The Antarctic field season (nov,dec,jan) was very good and productive, though the weather was poor this year and we spent a total of 30+days waiting for flights in the field. The fishing in NZ (24Jan-5Mar) was excellent once again.  After 4 years in a row fishing for a month or more in NZ, it seems more and more fun.  I’ll likely be heading back once again next year.  I’ll let you know when I scan in a few pics from the 98 NZ season.  I caught some tremendous browns this year.  I still have a few pictures from last year:         http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/NZ/NZ_97.html Since I’ve been home I’ve hooked 2 steelhead, landed 1.  I scanned a picture of this beautiful native hen.  It is at the top of my fish page:         http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html cheers,         -tgades — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html email: replace the "this_address_is_wrong" with "tgades"

Response:

  the double surgeon should be stronger than the knot to the fly if tied   properly. Be sure to wet the knot tighten slowly and DO NOT tighten apply the   final tightening pull to the tag ends only to the main line. Tightening the   tag ends binds the main line and considerably weakens the knot.   Ralph H

There are several terminal mono knots that are "100% strength" knots (e.g. Trilene knot).  While strong, I don’t think I’ve seen results of tests of any line-to-line knots (including the double surgeon) that can do 100%. cheers,         -tgades — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html email: replace the "this_address_is_wrong" with "tgades"

Response:

Hello, Does anyone have any suggestions for  a good strong relatively easy to tie knot for attaching a tippet to a leader.  I know the traditional barrel and double surgens knots.  The problem I’ve been having, which is quite irritating, is the knot that attaches the tippet is weaker than the one attaching the fly, so when I hang up the tippet breaks off  

the double surgeon should be stronger than the knot to the fly if tied properly. Be sure to wet the knot tighten slowly and DO NOT tighten apply the final tightening pull to the tag ends only to the main line. Tightening the tag ends binds the main line and considerably weakens the knot. Ralph H

Response:

Hello, Does anyone have any suggestions for  a good strong relatively easy to tie knot for attaching a tippet to a leader.  I know the traditional barrel and double surgens knots.  The problem I’ve been having, which is quite irritating, is the knot that attaches the tippet is weaker than the one attaching the fly, so when I hang up the tippet breaks off  as well as the fly.  When I’m nymph fishing I feel like I spend a great amount of time standing in the creek attaching new tippets.  I switched to a Filson knot to attach the fly to the tippet since I found it was stronger than a clinch knot. I hate the idea of switching to a weaker terminal knot just to save having to retie the tippet each time I hang up, which as you know can be lot.    Has anynone else had this experience and what is the solution.   Thanks, Mark Watson

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -knot for attaching a tippet to a leader.  I know the traditional barrel and double surgens knots.  The problem I’ve been having, which is quite irritating, is the knot that attaches the tippet is weaker than the one attaching the fly, so when I hang up the tippet breaks off  as well as the fly.  When I’m nymph fishing I feel like I spend a great amount of time standing in the creek attaching new tippets.  I switched to a Filson knot to attach the fly to the tippet since I found it was stronger than a clinch knot. I hate the idea of switching to a weaker terminal knot just to save having to retie the tippet each time I hang up, which as you know can be lot.    Has anynone else had this experience and what is the solution.   Thanks, Mark Watson

Hi Mark. Depending on how much time I have, I’ll use the Blood Knot or the Double Surgeon’s Knot. The Blood Knot takes longer to tie, but is stronger, so I use it when I’m rigging before I go to the river. If I’m on the stream and I get a wind knot that I can’t untie very close to the tippet/leader knot, they I’ll cut off my existing tippet and use a Double Surgeon’s Knot to put a new one on. That’s just what I use. Bryce    

Response:

I’ve used the barrel knot for years with a Turl (sp?) Knot for fly connection and it’s always worked well.  Is it that you don’t want to tie a barrel knot???  Or that your barrel knot is breaking?   Or that you are using a knot to connect the fly that is a stronger knot than the barrel knot? Barry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, Does anyone have any suggestions for  a good strong relatively easy to tie knot for attaching a tippet to a leader.  I know the traditional barrel and double surgens knots.  The problem I’ve been having, which is quite irritating, is the knot that attaches the tippet is weaker than the one attaching the fly, so when I hang up the tippet breaks off  as well as the fly.  When I’m nymph fishing I feel like I spend a great amount of time standing in the creek attaching new tippets.  I switched to a Filson knot to attach the fly to the tippet since I found it was stronger than a clinch knot. I hate the idea of switching to a weaker terminal knot just to save having to retie the tippet each time I hang up, which as you know can be lot.    Has anynone else had this experience and what is the solution. Thanks, Mark Watson

Response:

Question:

Dear Biff, In Greek mythology, Narcissus was a young man who looked into a pool of water and fell in love with his own reflection. After that he could love no other.  I’m certain I am not telling you anything you don’t already know. Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, Fourth Edition(DSM-IV) Personality Disorders, Cluster B Narcissistic Personality Disorder:  A pervasive pattern of grandiousity(in fantasy or behavior),  lack of empathy, and hypersensitivity to the evaluation of  others, beginning by early adulthood, and present in a variety  of contexts, as indicated by at least five of the following:   (1) reacts to criticism with feelings of rage, shame, or humil-       iation(even if not expressed)   (2) is interpersonally exploitive: takes advantage of others to       achieve his own ends   (3) has a grandious sense of self-importance, e.g., exaggerates       achievements and talents, expects to be noticed as "special"       without appropriate achievement   (4) believes that his or her problems are unique and can be       understood only by other special people   (5) is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power,       brilliance, beauty, or ideal love   (6) has a sense of entitlement: unreasonable expectations of       especially favorable treatment   (7) requires constant attention and admiration, e.g. keeps       fishing for compliments   (8) lack of empathy: inability to recognize and experience how       others feel   (9) is preoccupied with feelings of envy I hope you get the help you need. Tz p.s.  I forgotten more than you know. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – as Sir James would say, I received so much mail I have to answer it like this. My being an active member of the New York Bar, an experienced attorney in contracts, negociation, but to the point, motion practice and oral argument DOES NOT IMPLY that I think I am *better* than anyone, or should be deferred to because it’s an honored status (ask JFK Jr) [laugh now]. It’s simply this–in the law, as in law school, we learn to separate fact from opinion.  That sound simple, but it is not.  Too many people have never considered this as they write–the stupid America slacker syndrome–bet y’all can play the shit out of Nintendo though) More importantly, I have answered to Judges, in open court (you try it) and of course in chambers.  You people who have been criticizing my thought process are way way off the mark.  If you had a case, and a lawyer, you wouldn’t want to face me–judges tend to trust my face and manner instantly.  So you judgmental peolpe who’ve been sending the hate mail: I have succeeded in life and in representing idividuals and the City of New York for 2 years, that, well, makes your desperate attempts at insulting me, uh, uh–not bother me in the *slighest*. What bothers me is that you fools now have such easy access to all parts of the net–if you knew how utterly pedestrian you sounded, you wouldn’t write a word. Recently, a few poorly educated, though not necessarily stupid people, read some of the things I wrote on this n-g, in particualar some of my gut impressions of Alcoholics Anonymous, and that other group, which, here in NYC, deserves not a mention. I suggested that much of the 12 step stuff was silly–and it is–it juvenile, degrading, and shame producing–but that is only my opinion, and for stating such opinion (keep in mind I’ve been to 400 meeting from Denver to Sarasota), I have received hate mail–hate because it assumes, in a weak–extremely weak (sign of an awful, if any, college education) inductive argument (which here is really redundant) that since I gave the impression that "The Rooms" remind me of those Dianetics people, or a a playground for people about 50 years to old to sit in a sandbox and forever swap stories about who threw up most from the bedspins, or how grateful grateful they are that..well..gratefulness exists.  Grow up.  And yeah–you can talk about the "rooms"?  I can state my view. My opinion was mine alone. A bunch of 12 step [people] took quite an offense, but more importantly an offense to an abstraction that they created by their feeble attempt at inductive logic: "Ian’s eye’s are dark blue, Ian’s brother’s eye’s are dark blue,  therefore Ian’s sister has dark blue eyes"; and that’s not so–my sister’s eyes are green.  This is *deductive* logic: "Ian has a 2 brother’s and a sister, of the 4 siblings, 2 have eyes that are dark blue, 2 have green eyes–Ian and his older bother have dark blue eye: therefore Ian’s sister and younger brother must have green eyes. So when I speak of my utter digust with the level of what is supposed to pass for linear thinking and coherent logic in this newsgroup, I am talking about the poorly educated people, most of whom know less than zero about bipolar disorder, who fly in here out of the blue, and through their pitiful use of induction, lower the discourse here considerably. We know, that in fact, only about 3 or 4 people come up with any decent incites–okay, maybe 6.  But the rest is all "I gained a pound on lithium, help me"; and it’s like, where did Alta Vista, Dejanews, Webcrawler, Lycos, ad nauseum go?  Like: when you get a computer, why don’t you learn to use it?  It’s all part of the same thread–a soft, marshmallow American populace, poorly educated, largely obese, and utterly unable to use deductive logic; instead, we get touchy-feely Oprah-esque inductive nonsense. In the Spirit of Alexander Hamilton and the competitive prep schools and colleges in New York and New England. Something tells me I’m going to get flamed for being an arrogant elitist–I am.  But so are you.  Think about it–or can you do that? her ya go! [matches/gasoline] Ian Andrew Schneider

Response:

Fuck you. both my parents are narcissists, and they do quite well. You must love yourself first. As far as your – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Dear Biff, In Greek mythology, Narcissus was a young man who looked into a pool of water and fell in love with his own reflection. After that he could love no other.  I’m certain I am not telling you anything you don’t already know. Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, Fourth Edition(DSM-IV) Personality Disorders, Cluster B Narcissistic Personality Disorder: A pervasive pattern of grandiousity(in fantasy or behavior), lack of empathy, and hypersensitivity to the evaluation of others, beginning by early adulthood, and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by at least five of the following:  (1) reacts to criticism with feelings of rage, shame, or humil-      iation(even if not expressed)

true  (2) is interpersonally exploitive: takes advantage of others to      achieve his own ends

totally  (3) has a grandious sense of self-importance, e.g., exaggerates      achievements and talents, expects to be noticed as "special"      without appropriate achievement

I have achieved, much, motherfucker  (4) believes that his or her problems are unique and can be      understood only by other special people

true  (5) is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power,      brilliance, beauty, or ideal love

yup  (6) has a sense of entitlement: unreasonable expectations of      especially favorable treatment

yup  (7) requires constant attention and admiration, e.g. keeps      fishing for compliments

true  (8) lack of empathy: inability to recognize and experience how      others feel

WRONG.  Fuck you.  (9) is preoccupied with feelings of envy

because I’m envied by many–I envy myself sometimes, like yesterday. I hope you get the help you need.

I hope you stop judging individuals; you don’t know me; my cyberpersona and me, that is me me me, is different.  I’m too cool in person.  Fits your dx, eh? Tz p.s.  I forgotten more than you know.

Fuck you.  My bet: your a 30 year old virgin.  You write and analyze like some ugly faced fuck who’s never gotten laid, much less received the love of someone beautiful. Bet my last cent, your face is ugly, you are not attractive, and therefore you are a bitter person who has only resorted to masturbation for sex.  maybe in your next life… Oh, fuck you again, maybe that’ll help you get some. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – as Sir James would say, I received so much mail I have to answer it like this. My being an active member of the New York Bar, an experienced attorney in contracts, negociation, but to the point, motion practice and oral argument DOES NOT IMPLY that I think I am *better* than anyone, or should be deferred to because it’s an honored status (ask JFK Jr) [laugh now]. It’s simply this–in the law, as in law school, we learn to separate fact from opinion.  That sound simple, but it is not.  Too many people have never considered this as they write–the stupid America slacker syndrome–bet y’all can play the shit out of Nintendo though) More importantly, I have answered to Judges, in open court (you try it) and of course in chambers.  You people who have been criticizing my thought process are way way off the mark.  If you had a case, and a lawyer, you wouldn’t want to face me–judges tend to trust my face and manner instantly.  So you judgmental peolpe who’ve been sending the hate mail: I have succeeded in life and in representing idividuals and the City of New York for 2 years, that, well, makes your desperate attempts at insulting me, uh, uh–not bother me in the *slighest*. What bothers me is that you fools now have such easy access to all parts of the net–if you knew how utterly pedestrian you sounded, you wouldn’t write a word. Recently, a few poorly educated, though not necessarily stupid people, read some of the things I wrote on this n-g, in particualar some of my gut impressions of Alcoholics Anonymous, and that other group, which, here in NYC, deserves not a mention. I suggested that much of the 12 step stuff was silly–and it is–it juvenile, degrading, and shame producing–but that is only my opinion, and for stating such opinion (keep in mind I’ve been to 400 meeting from Denver to Sarasota), I have received hate mail–hate because it assumes, in a weak–extremely weak (sign of an awful, if any, college education) inductive argument (which here is really redundant) that since I gave the impression that "The Rooms" remind me of those Dianetics people, or a a playground for people about 50 years to old to sit in a sandbox and forever swap stories about who threw up most from the bedspins, or how grateful grateful they are that..well..gratefulness exists.  Grow up.  And yeah–you can talk about the "rooms"?  I can state my view. My opinion was mine alone. A bunch of 12 step [people] took quite an offense, but more importantly an offense to an abstraction that they created by their feeble attempt at inductive logic: "Ian’s eye’s are dark blue, Ian’s brother’s eye’s are dark blue,  therefore Ian’s sister has dark blue eyes"; and that’s not so–my sister’s eyes are green.  This is *deductive* logic: "Ian has a 2 brother’s and a sister, of the 4 siblings, 2 have eyes that are dark blue, 2 have green eyes–Ian and his older bother have dark blue eye: therefore Ian’s sister and younger brother must have green eyes. So when I speak of my utter digust with the level of what is supposed to pass for linear thinking and coherent logic in this newsgroup, I am talking about the poorly educated people, most of whom know less than zero about bipolar disorder, who fly in here out of the blue, and through their pitiful use of induction, lower the discourse here considerably. We know, that in fact, only about 3 or 4 people come up with any decent incites–okay, maybe 6.  But the rest is all "I gained a pound on lithium, help me"; and it’s like, where did Alta Vista, Dejanews, Webcrawler, Lycos, ad nauseum go?  Like: when you get a computer, why don’t you learn to use it?  It’s all part of the same thread–a soft, marshmallow American populace, poorly educated, largely obese, and utterly unable to use deductive logic; instead, we get touchy-feely Oprah-esque inductive nonsense. In the Spirit of Alexander Hamilton and the competitive prep schools and colleges in New York and New England. Something tells me I’m going to get flamed for being an arrogant elitist–I am.  But so are you.  Think about it–or can you do that? her ya go! [matches/gasoline] Ian Andrew Schneider

Response:

as Sir James would say, I received so much mail I have to answer it like this. My being an active member of the New York Bar, an experienced attorney in contracts, negociation, but to the point, motion practice and oral argument DOES NOT IMPLY that I think I am *better* than anyone, or should be deferred to because it’s an honored status (ask JFK Jr) [laugh now]. It’s simply this–in the law, as in law school, we learn to separate fact from opinion.  That sound simple, but it is not.  Too many people have never considered this as they write–the stupid America slacker syndrome–bet y’all can play the shit out of Nintendo though) More importantly, I have answered to Judges, in open court (you try it) and of course in chambers.  You people who have been criticizing my thought process are way way off the mark.  If you had a case, and a lawyer, you wouldn’t want to face me–judges tend to trust my face and manner instantly.  So you judgmental peolpe who’ve been sending the hate mail: I have succeeded in life and in representing idividuals and the City of New York for 2 years, that, well, makes your desperate attempts at insulting me, uh, uh–not bother me in the *slighest*. What bothers me is that you fools now have such easy access to all parts of the net–if you knew how utterly pedestrian you sounded, you wouldn’t write a word. Recently, a few poorly educated, though not necessarily stupid people, read some of the things I wrote on this n-g, in particualar some of my gut impressions of Alcoholics Anonymous, and that other group, which, here in NYC, deserves not a mention. I suggested that much of the 12 step stuff was silly–and it is–it juvenile, degrading, and shame producing–but that is only my opinion, and for stating such opinion (keep in mind I’ve been to 400 meeting from Denver to Sarasota), I have received hate mail–hate because it assumes, in a weak–extremely weak (sign of an awful, if any, college education) inductive argument (which here is really redundant) that since I gave the impression that "The Rooms" remind me of those Dianetics people, or a a playground for people about 50 years to old to sit in a sandbox and forever swap stories about who threw up most from the bedspins, or how grateful grateful they are that..well..gratefulness exists.  Grow up.  And yeah–you can talk about the "rooms"?  I can state my view. My opinion was mine alone. A bunch of 12 step [people] took quite an offense, but more importantly an offense to an abstraction that they created by their feeble attempt at inductive logic: "Ian’s eye’s are dark blue, Ian’s brother’s eye’s are dark blue,  therefore Ian’s sister has dark blue eyes"; and that’s not so–my sister’s eyes are green.  This is *deductive* logic: "Ian has a 2 brother’s and a sister, of the 4 siblings, 2 have eyes that are dark blue, 2 have green eyes–Ian and his older bother have dark blue eye: therefore Ian’s sister and younger brother must have green eyes. So when I speak of my utter digust with the level of what is supposed to pass for linear thinking and coherent logic in this newsgroup, I am talking about the poorly educated people, most of whom know less than zero about bipolar disorder, who fly in here out of the blue, and through their pitiful use of induction, lower the discourse here considerably. We know, that in fact, only about 3 or 4 people come up with any decent incites–okay, maybe 6.  But the rest is all "I gained a pound on lithium, help me"; and it’s like, where did Alta Vista, Dejanews, Webcrawler, Lycos, ad nauseum go?  Like: when you get a computer, why don’t you learn to use it?  It’s all part of the same thread–a soft, marshmallow American populace, poorly educated, largely obese, and utterly unable to use deductive logic; instead, we get touchy-feely Oprah-esque inductive nonsense. In the Spirit of Alexander Hamilton and the competitive prep schools and colleges in New York and New England. Something tells me I’m going to get flamed for being an arrogant elitist–I am.  But so are you.  Think about it–or can you do that? her ya go! [matches/gasoline] Ian Andrew Schneider

Response:

I’m just saying 2 things here: 1) If it’s a general isue, PLEASE try the search engines 1st as not to make every week here a series f questions that has been askd and answered in 3 threads already this year; 2) DO NOT ASSUME FACTS NOT STATED–this leads to weak inductive reasoning, then misunderstanding, and ultimately bitchy posts like mine whining about the situation. I’ve said my piece, bad punctuation, grammar, spelling and all–I’m just trying to keep the group sharp and lean and thoughtful, not dull, plodding and assuming. I know I’m not so smart; many of the genius types, as Brian, and experienced one as Roy 47 and still Bipolar, John K, and Sir James have far more to offer in their life experience than I. However, this reasonibg by assuming "fill in the facts that aren’t there" must go to keep this a worthy and exciting group. To you I offended–that was not my intention; my intention is stated above. love to all, Ian – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -as Sir James would say, I received so much mail I have to answer it like this. My being an active member of the New York Bar, an experienced attorney in contracts, negociation, but to the point, motion practice and oral argument DOES NOT IMPLY that I think I am *better* than anyone, or should be deferred to because it’s an honored status (ask JFK Jr) [laugh now]. It’s simply this–in the law, as in law school, we learn to separate fact from opinion.  That sound simple, but it is not.  Too many people have never considered this as they write–the stupid America slacker syndrome–bet y’all can play the shit out of Nintendo though) More importantly, I have answered to Judges, in open court (you try it) and of course in chambers.  You people who have been criticizing my thought process are way way off the mark.  If you had a case, and a lawyer, you wouldn’t want to face me–judges tend to trust my face and manner instantly.  So you judgmental peolpe who’ve been sending the hate mail: I have succeeded in life and in representing idividuals and the City of New York for 2 years, that, well, makes your desperate attempts at insulting me, uh, uh–not bother me in the *slighest*. What bothers me is that you fools now have such easy access to all parts of the net–if you knew how utterly pedestrian you sounded, you wouldn’t write a word. Recently, a few poorly educated, though not necessarily stupid people, read some of the things I wrote on this n-g, in particualar some of my gut impressions of Alcoholics Anonymous, and that other group, which, here in NYC, deserves not a mention. I suggested that much of the 12 step stuff was silly–and it is–it juvenile, degrading, and shame producing–but that is only my opinion, and for stating such opinion (keep in mind I’ve been to 400 meeting from Denver to Sarasota), I have received hate mail–hate because it assumes, in a weak–extremely weak (sign of an awful, if any, college education) inductive argument (which here is really redundant) that since I gave the impression that "The Rooms" remind me of those Dianetics people, or a a playground for people about 50 years to old to sit in a sandbox and forever swap stories about who threw up most from the bedspins, or how grateful grateful they are that..well..gratefulness exists.  Grow up.  And yeah–you can talk about the "rooms"?  I can state my view. My opinion was mine alone. A bunch of 12 step [people] took quite an offense, but more importantly an offense to an abstraction that they created by their feeble attempt at inductive logic: "Ian’s eye’s are dark blue, Ian’s brother’s eye’s are dark blue,  therefore Ian’s sister has dark blue eyes"; and that’s not so–my sister’s eyes are green.  This is *deductive* logic: "Ian has a 2 brother’s and a sister, of the 4 siblings, 2 have eyes that are dark blue, 2 have green eyes–Ian and his older bother have dark blue eye: therefore Ian’s sister and younger brother must have green eyes. So when I speak of my utter digust with the level of what is supposed to pass for linear thinking and coherent logic in this newsgroup, I am talking about the poorly educated people, most of whom know less than zero about bipolar disorder, who fly in here out of the blue, and through their pitiful use of induction, lower the discourse here considerably. We know, that in fact, only about 3 or 4 people come up with any decent incites–okay, maybe 6.  But the rest is all "I gained a pound on lithium, help me"; and it’s like, where did Alta Vista, Dejanews, Webcrawler, Lycos, ad nauseum go?  Like: when you get a computer, why don’t you learn to use it?  It’s all part of the same thread–a soft, marshmallow American populace, poorly educated, largely obese, and utterly unable to use deductive logic; instead, we get touchy-feely Oprah-esque inductive nonsense. In the Spirit of Alexander Hamilton and the competitive prep schools and colleges in New York and New England. Something tells me I’m going to get flamed for being an arrogant elitist–I am.  But so are you.  Think about it–or can you do that? her ya go! [matches/gasoline] Ian Andrew Schneider

Response:

Question:

I’m Interested in buying a boat for shallow water fishing in Bays and Rivers (Chesapeake Bay) Can anyone give me thier opinion on the Carolina Skiffs. I’ll be flyfishing from this boat. Preferably would like to hear from skiff owners or dealers. Thanks Nick DelleDonne "The Evening Rise Fly Angler’s Shop"

Response:

I’m Interested in buying a boat for shallow water fishing in Bays and Rivers (Chesapeake Bay) Can anyone give me thier opinion on the Carolina Skiffs. I’ll be flyfishing from this boat. Preferably would like to hear from skiff owners or dealers. Thanks Nick DelleDonne "The Evening Rise Fly Angler’s Shop"

Hi Nick: I own a Southern Skimmer,(pretty much the same boat) I love it, you don’t need much water to run in or that much power to push it. I use mine on the great south bay on long island(NY) and it gets a little bouncy when its rough but on a river or lake where it’s a little calmer it should be great. J Branca

Response:

Question:

I am wondering if there are any tricks to tying backing onto my reel then to my floating fly line?  It seems pretty straightforward, but I have noticed alot of talk about different fishermen’s reliance upon and use of backing. What’s the process.  Thanks for any troubleshooting tips.

Response:

I am wondering if there are any tricks to tying backing onto my reel then to my floating fly line?  It seems pretty straightforward, but I have noticed alot of talk about different fishermen’s reliance upon and use of backing. What’s the process.  Thanks for any troubleshooting tips.

You should ask this in rec.outdoors.fishing.fly, it will likely touch off a major discussion! First off, you definitely need backing, unless you plan to spend your time catching 4" trout that are 15ft away. What you use as backing is another matter. Some guys like to lay out $$$ for custom designed fly rod backing – I prefer to use an el cheapo alternative, black dacron line. It costs about 1/4 as much as real backing and is pretty much the same thing. The backing knot is another question entirely. The folks in r.o.f.f will talk about everything from nail knots at the high end down to modified versions of a sheet bend / figure eight combination called a backing knot. Best to do some reading at the library to see what’s the best for your purposes (ie what can you be bothered tying, and how important you think it is to your type of fishing). Good luck Rod

Response: