Question:

Lately, the outside of my left elbow is sore to the core. (I’m right handed)  I was told by some golfers that I may have ‘tennis elbow’.  Has anyone experienced this and what did you do for it?  I’m sure I’ll have to see the Doc, if it doesn’t go away.  Will it go away?? Thanks in advance!

Response:

Lately, the outside of my left elbow is sore to the core. (I’m right handed)  I was told by some golfers that I may have ‘tennis elbow’.  Has anyone experienced this and what did you do for it?  I’m sure I’ll have to see the Doc, if it doesn’t go away.  Will it go away??

Do a web search on "lateral epicondylitis".  It’s not fun, that’s for sure.

Response:

Lately, the outside of my left elbow is sore to the core. (I’m right handed)  I was told by some golfers that I may have ‘tennis elbow’.  Has anyone experienced this and what did you do for it?  I’m sure I’ll have to see the Doc, if it doesn’t go away.  Will it go away??

A couple of years ago I got tennis elbow in my right (racquet) arm by digging up trees in my yard.  I stupidly didn’t take much time off of tennis, and also didn’t get any treatment.  It took a long time to go away, but I eventually recovered completely.  I think I helped the healing by careful weightlifting that didn’t aggravate it.  One guy I used to play tennis with got it pretty bad.  He’s had physical therapy and cortisone shots, and is still trying to recover. I’ve had pain in my left arm for the last couple of months that I can only attribute to golf.  It sounds like what you have.  During the summer I was hitting a lot of balls each week, and also doing some cross-training to maintain strength and flexibility and ward off injury.  I may have overdone the practice regimen a bit.  I have one more tournament to play on 10/20, then I’m planning on rest and rehab over the winter to get rid of the pain.   – cja

Response:

Lately, the outside of my left elbow is sore to the core. (I’m right handed)  I was told by some golfers that I may have ‘tennis elbow’.  Has anyone experienced this and what did you do for it?  I’m sure I’ll have to see the Doc, if it doesn’t go away.  Will it go away?? Do a web search on "lateral epicondylitis".  It’s not fun, that’s for sure.

And if that happens to be your problem, ask your pharmacist for the type of "armband" (some look like a U-shaped clamp) that redirects vibration away from your elbow. It won’t cure you (only rest will do that) but at least will alleviate further pain.

Response:

I am currently suffering from a (left) tennis elbow as a result of a too strong grip while playing in the rain. I am getting physiotherapy but have been told that it may take anywhere between 3 months and 2 years to heal. Rest seems to do the trick. Certainly no more golf for the foreseeable future… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lately, the outside of my left elbow is sore to the core. (I’m right handed)  I was told by some golfers that I may have ‘tennis elbow’.  Has anyone experienced this and what did you do for it?  I’m sure I’ll have to see the Doc, if it doesn’t go away.  Will it go away?? Thanks in advance!

Response:

This is bad news.  I’ve worked through this in both elbows. Definitely take measures now, or it can get a lot worse.  The things I have done, that are finally getting me fixed, after a year, are: 1) Ice the elbow thoroughly after golf or other activities which make it sore. 2) Stretch the tendons before.  There are web sites out there which can give you the stretches. 3) Weight training of the forearm.  I use 12 lb dumbells now, had to start with 2 lb. You want to lay your arm across your knee, palm down, and flex the hand backwards towards your elbow.  Do 15 reps with what ever weight you can.  Then turn the hand over, palm up, and curl your wrist with the same weight.  Do three or four times a week. 4) I had to give up golf and fly fishing for two months.  I gave it up for three weeks and then went back, and really made things worse. 5) Ibuprofen 6) Get a tennis elbow support strap.  Your local drug store should have one. Wear this while golfing or when doing other things that subject the elbow to impact.  You wear it just below the elbow, on the fat part of your forearm. It distributes stress to the muscle lower in your arm. Hope that helps.  Don’t ignore this, or it can become chronic. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lately, the outside of my left elbow is sore to the core. (I’m right handed)  I was told by some golfers that I may have ‘tennis elbow’.  Has anyone experienced this and what did you do for it?  I’m sure I’ll have to see the Doc, if it doesn’t go away.  Will it go away?? Thanks in advance!

Response:

In addition to the excellent list of options below, I would taking Glucoseamaine Sulphate, which cured a very bad case of Tennis Elbow I had several years ago. would seem to take 60 days for benefits to appear. Cortisone shots help, but are not recommended until other treatments fail. — Bill Cochrane 416-284-8462

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is bad news.  I’ve worked through this in both elbows. Definitely take measures now, or it can get a lot worse.  The things I have done, that are finally getting me fixed, after a year, are: 1) Ice the elbow thoroughly after golf or other activities which make it sore. 2) Stretch the tendons before.  There are web sites out there which can give you the stretches. 3) Weight training of the forearm.  I use 12 lb dumbells now, had to start with 2 lb. You want to lay your arm across your knee, palm down, and flex the hand backwards towards your elbow.  Do 15 reps with what ever weight you can.  Then turn the hand over, palm up, and curl your wrist with the same weight.  Do three or four times a week. 4) I had to give up golf and fly fishing for two months.  I gave it up for three weeks and then went back, and really made things worse. 5) Ibuprofen 6) Get a tennis elbow support strap.  Your local drug store should have one. Wear this while golfing or when doing other things that subject the elbow to impact.  You wear it just below the elbow, on the fat part of your forearm. It distributes stress to the muscle lower in your arm. Hope that helps.  Don’t ignore this, or it can become chronic. Lately, the outside of my left elbow is sore to the core. (I’m right handed)  I was told by some golfers that I may have ‘tennis elbow’.  Has anyone experienced this and what did you do for it?  I’m sure I’ll have to see the Doc, if it doesn’t go away.  Will it go away?? Thanks in advance!

Response:

Question:

I recently bought an REI New Star, a 2000 model, at significant savings over the usual price.  I like the pack; size, fit, durability, price…all suit me.  (Did I say I was new at this?)  But the stinking thing has no outside pockets, except for a couple useless mesh pockets, and no daisy chain. There are a few lash points, which I am using for tent poles and my sleeping pad. Is there a retail product, like an add-on compartment, that can be added to the pack.  I hate the idea of all this junk hanging off my otherwise sleek pack, but the lack of readily accessible pockets is maddening.  It took an act of olympic contortion just to pull a water bottle from the mesh pockets, and getting it back in the pocket was almost impossible without removing the pack. How do you pros handle quick accessibliltity issues?

Response:

Is there a retail product, like an add-on compartment, that can be added to the pack.  I hate the idea of all this junk hanging off my otherwise sleek pack, but the lack of readily accessible pockets is maddening.  It took an act of olympic contortion just to pull a water bottle from the mesh pockets, and getting it back in the pocket was almost impossible without removing the pack. How do you pros handle quick accessibliltity issues?

There are times, like climbing, skiing, or hiking through dense brush, where having a minimalist pack is preferred, with no appendages to get snagged. Most outdoor shops sell a variety of add-on pockets which attach to the various compression straps on the pack, top, sides and back. There are also some for the hip belt and shoulder straps for quick access to water, snacks, map, compass, camera, etc., without removing the pack. Happy trails, Gary (net.yogi.bear) at the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom

Response:

If possible add a few fanny packs to the pack and use them for storage, compression and small day packs. You might want to start using a water bladder/hose assembly instead of a bottle. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently bought an REI New Star, a 2000 model, at significant savings over the usual price.  I like the pack; size, fit, durability, price…all suit me.  (Did I say I was new at this?)  But the stinking thing has no outside pockets, except for a couple useless mesh pockets, and no daisy chain. There are a few lash points, which I am using for tent poles and my sleeping pad. Is there a retail product, like an add-on compartment, that can be added to the pack.  I hate the idea of all this junk hanging off my otherwise sleek pack, but the lack of readily accessible pockets is maddening.  It took an act of olympic contortion just to pull a water bottle from the mesh pockets, and getting it back in the pocket was almost impossible without removing the pack. How do you pros handle quick accessibliltity issues?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently bought an REI New Star, a 2000 model, at significant savings over the usual price.  I like the pack; size, fit, durability, price…all suit me.  (Did I say I was new at this?)  But the stinking thing has no outside pockets, except for a couple useless mesh pockets, and no daisy chain. There are a few lash points, which I am using for tent poles and my sleeping pad. Is there a retail product, like an add-on compartment, that can be added to the pack.  I hate the idea of all this junk hanging off my otherwise sleek pack, but the lack of readily accessible pockets is maddening.  It took an act of olympic contortion just to pull a water bottle from the mesh pockets, and getting it back in the pocket was almost impossible without removing the pack. How do you pros handle quick accessibliltity issues?

The Kelty Cloud has modular pockets that can be purchased separate.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently bought an REI New Star, a 2000 model, at significant savings over the usual price.  I like the pack; size, fit, durability, price…all suit me.  (Did I say I was new at this?)  But the stinking thing has no outside pockets, except for a couple useless mesh pockets, and no daisy chain. There are a few lash points, which I am using for tent poles and my sleeping pad. Is there a retail product, like an add-on compartment, that can be added to the pack.  I hate the idea of all this junk hanging off my otherwise sleek pack, but the lack of readily accessible pockets is maddening.  It took an act of olympic contortion just to pull a water bottle from the mesh pockets, and getting it back in the pocket was almost impossible without removing the pack. How do you pros handle quick accessibliltity issues?

Since some of the add-on systems are real brand specific, some people get afterkmarket pockets sewn permanently onto the packs. penny – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

How do you pros handle quick accessibliltity issues?

I’m not a pro, but I’ve used that pack and was also frustrated by the mesh pockets, especially seeing that the compression straps go right over the pocket.  Who the heck thought up that bright idea? There is one external pocket that’s on the very top in the detachable fanny pack.  I kept small stuff in that pocket, and also used it to keep a hydration bladder.  That worked much better than fighting to get a water bottle in and out of those mesh pockets. Joel

Response:

this looks like what you’re talking about: http://www.duraflexbuckles.com/duraflex/page12_13/page12_13.htm That is it! Thank you very much!

   We get some other clips at $.15 a set if we buy 2000 sets;o)    Ed Huesers

Response:

That is it! Thank you very much! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was thinking of something smaller and lighter. You see them on the ends of shoulder straps for all kinds of bags such as camera bags and luggage; the keychain clip in a daypack, and other stuff. They commonly snap into D rings and sometimes include a swivel. Hand loops on your pack straps have them. So the hand loops on many trekking poles. For such light duty, I had in mind something in black nylon abut 1.25 inches long. The heavy metal ones are used to clip into the links os a chain.    Well, this looks like what you’re talking about: http://www.duraflexbuckles.com/duraflex/page12_13/page12_13.htm    Ed Huesers    http://www.grandshelters.com

Response:

I was thinking of something smaller and lighter. You see them on the ends of shoulder straps for all kinds of bags such as camera bags and luggage; the keychain clip in a daypack, and other stuff. They commonly snap into D rings and sometimes include a swivel. Hand loops on your pack straps have them. So the hand loops on many trekking poles. For such light duty, I had in mind something in black nylon abut 1.25 inches long. The heavy metal ones are used to clip into the links os a chain.

   Well, this looks like what you’re talking about: http://www.duraflexbuckles.com/duraflex/page12_13/page12_13.htm    Ed Huesers    http://www.grandshelters.com

Response:

Visit your local fishing (especially fly fishing) store.  They have just what you’re looking forl  Looks like a necklace with clips for all kinds of little tools.  I wouldn’t be caught dead using one, but that’s just me.  I’m not a "purist" fly fisher anyway.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Related question. –I have been wanting to use clips rather than a pocket for small items like compass, thermometer, knife, led flashlight and similar lanyard fodder. I would like to wear one lanyard and just clip the items to it or to my pack or my belt as needed. However, I need the clips. The only ones that I can find in local hardware stores are big, heavy steel ones.:-(  I would prefer light, cheap, plastic clips like you see on commercial goods. Does anyone have a source? I recently bought an REI New Star, a 2000 model, at significant savings over the usual price.  I like the pack; size, fit, durability, price…all suit me.  (Did I say I was new at this?)  But the stinking thing has no outside pockets, except for a couple useless mesh pockets, and no daisy chain. There are a few lash points, which I am using for tent poles and my sleeping pad. Is there a retail product, like an add-on compartment, that can be added to the pack.  I hate the idea of all this junk hanging off my otherwise sleek pack, but the lack of readily accessible pockets is maddening.  It took an act of olympic contortion just to pull a water bottle from the mesh pockets, and getting it back in the pocket was almost impossible without removing the pack. How do you pros handle quick accessibliltity issues?

Response:

I was thinking of something smaller and lighter. You see them on the ends of shoulder straps for all kinds of bags such as camera bags and luggage; the keychain clip in a daypack, and other stuff. They commonly snap into D rings and sometimes include a swivel. Hand loops on your pack straps have them. So the hand loops on many trekking poles. For such light duty, I had in mind something in black nylon abut 1.25 inches long. The heavy metal ones are used to clip into the links os a chain. I have a few of the keychain mini’biners but since I would clip them to a D ring or cord, they should be more bulky, heavy, and expensive than ideal. The nylon ones should be dirt cheap, half the size, and half the weight of even an mini’biner but only IF I can find some. I also camp with a BSA Troop so even if I buy a bag of 50-100, I could put them to use. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Have you considered using rock climbing carabiners?  The actual "for climbing use" ones probably aren’t any lighter than the steel clips you found at the hardware store, but lots of places (REI, etc.) sell lightweight keychain carabiners.  I clip a few of those on my pack and use them to attach random stuff. Related question. –I have been wanting to use clips rather than a pocket for small items like compass, thermometer, knife, led flashlight and similar lanyard fodder. I would like to wear one lanyard and just clip the items to it or to my pack or my belt as needed. However, I need the clips. The only ones that I can find in local hardware stores are big, heavy steel ones.:-(  I would prefer light, cheap, plastic clips like you see on commercial goods. Does anyone have a source? I recently bought an REI New Star, a 2000 model, at significant savings over the usual price.  I like the pack; size, fit, durability, price…all suit me.  (Did I say I was new at this?)  But the stinking thing has no outside pockets, except for a couple useless mesh pockets, and no daisy chain. There are a few lash points, which I am using for tent poles and my sleeping pad. Is there a retail product, like an add-on compartment, that can be added to the pack.  I hate the idea of all this junk hanging off my otherwise sleek pack, but the lack of readily accessible pockets is maddening.  It took an act of olympic contortion just to pull a water bottle from the mesh pockets, and getting it back in the pocket was almost impossible without removing the pack. How do you pros handle quick accessibliltity issues?

Response:

Have you considered using rock climbing carabiners?  The actual "for climbing use" ones probably aren’t any lighter than the steel clips you found at the hardware store, but lots of places (REI, etc.) sell lightweight keychain carabiners.  I clip a few of those on my pack and use them to attach random stuff.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Related question. –I have been wanting to use clips rather than a pocket for small items like compass, thermometer, knife, led flashlight and similar lanyard fodder. I would like to wear one lanyard and just clip the items to it or to my pack or my belt as needed. However, I need the clips. The only ones that I can find in local hardware stores are big, heavy steel ones.:-(  I would prefer light, cheap, plastic clips like you see on commercial goods. Does anyone have a source? I recently bought an REI New Star, a 2000 model, at significant savings over the usual price.  I like the pack; size, fit, durability, price…all suit me.  (Did I say I was new at this?)  But the stinking thing has no outside pockets, except for a couple useless mesh pockets, and no daisy chain. There are a few lash points, which I am using for tent poles and my sleeping pad. Is there a retail product, like an add-on compartment, that can be added to the pack.  I hate the idea of all this junk hanging off my otherwise sleek pack, but the lack of readily accessible pockets is maddening.  It took an act of olympic contortion just to pull a water bottle from the mesh pockets, and getting it back in the pocket was almost impossible without removing the pack. How do you pros handle quick accessibliltity issues?

Response:

I am not sure what plastic clips you are referring to.  I have an old style metal shower curtain ring on my pack for hanging wet sox, but I have used it for haning other items as well.  Wal-Mart carries them.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Related question. –I have been wanting to use clips rather than a pocket for small items like compass, thermometer, knife, led flashlight and similar lanyard fodder. I would like to wear one lanyard and just clip the items to it or to my pack or my belt as needed. However, I need the clips. The only ones that I can find in local hardware stores are big, heavy steel ones.:-(  I would prefer light, cheap, plastic clips like you see on commercial goods. Does anyone have a source?

Response:

Related question. –I have been wanting to use clips rather than a pocket for small items like compass, thermometer, knife, led flashlight and similar lanyard fodder. I would like to wear one lanyard and just clip the items to it or to my pack or my belt as needed. However, I need the clips. The only ones that I can find in local hardware stores are big, heavy steel ones.:-(  I would prefer light, cheap, plastic clips like you see on commercial goods. Does anyone have a source? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently bought an REI New Star, a 2000 model, at significant savings over the usual price.  I like the pack; size, fit, durability, price…all suit me.  (Did I say I was new at this?)  But the stinking thing has no outside pockets, except for a couple useless mesh pockets, and no daisy chain. There are a few lash points, which I am using for tent poles and my sleeping pad. Is there a retail product, like an add-on compartment, that can be added to the pack.  I hate the idea of all this junk hanging off my otherwise sleek pack, but the lack of readily accessible pockets is maddening.  It took an act of olympic contortion just to pull a water bottle from the mesh pockets, and getting it back in the pocket was almost impossible without removing the pack. How do you pros handle quick accessibliltity issues?

Response:

I have a Gregory Reality with mesh pockets that have compression straps that go over them.  I put my stove bottle and water filter in the mesh pockets. The compression straps keep them from falling out.  I like the system.

Good point – I take back my blanket condemnation of the idea.  So they’re good for fuel and other stuff, bad for water bottles. Joel

Response:

In cold temps I carry a water bottle on my pack belt in a special holder(Gregory sells these too).  When it warms up I use a hydration bag and drinking tube.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a Gregory Reality with mesh pockets that have compression straps that go over them.  I put my stove bottle and water filter in the mesh pockets. The compression straps keep them from falling out.  I like the system. Good point – I take back my blanket condemnation of the idea.  So they’re good for fuel and other stuff, bad for water bottles. Joel

Response:

I have a Gregory Reality with mesh pockets that have compression straps that go over them.  I put my stove bottle and water filter in the mesh pockets.  The compression straps keep them from falling out.  I like the system. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How do you pros handle quick accessibliltity issues? I’m not a pro, but I’ve used that pack and was also frustrated by the mesh pockets, especially seeing that the compression straps go right over the pocket.  Who the heck thought up that bright idea? There is one external pocket that’s on the very top in the detachable fanny pack.  I kept small stuff in that pocket, and also used it to keep a hydration bladder.  That worked much better than fighting to get a water bottle in and out of those mesh pockets. Joel

Response:

Question:

Would anyone like to give a history of Roff. When it started,who are the longest posters Etc.

Response:

I and several others helped kick off alt.fishing in the late 1980’s, and the Associated Press and several well known magazines interviewed us and ran articles on the new forum for fishers. Until the early 1990’s, I posted stats on who the top posters were per year.  Readership was about 20,000-40,000 in the early years Several years later, Brian Dixon (then in Colorado, ironically now working for HP a few buildings away from me) successfully led an effort to get the rec.outdoors.fishing.* hierarchy started. Certainly many of us older posters don’t post as much due to other activities. I remain very impressed with the quality and value of the fishing forums, and thank many of you for keeping things going. Thomas Gilg – President, Mid-Willamette Fly Fishers, Corvallis Oregon – VP Conservation, Oregon Council of the Federation of Fly Fishers – Oregon [Fish] Restoration and Enhancement Board, Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife    (i.e. I and 6 others get to decide how to spend the several-dollar surcharge on every    angling license sold in Oregon to improve fisheries and fishing opportunities) – lots of other fishing conservation and education stuff

Response:

Would anyone like to give a history of Roff. When it started,who are the longest posters Etc.

I’m not sure who started ROFF or how long ago it was, but I’ll bet HWMNBN was the one who introduced him to USENET as they developed new fly patterns in a foxhole in the Korean War. –Steve (hey, someone’s gotta namedrop, even during a Clave)

Response:

, I posted stats on who the top posters were per year.  Readership was about 20,000-40,000 in the early years    thomas, is there any way that you or some other tekkie could roughly determine the number of posters/lurkers on roff at the present? wayno

There’s no way to count pure lurkers, without having server logs for every access point on the net – world wide. Most of us are already booked for other more worthy endeavors, but I invite my good friend from The Old North State to have at it with his usual gusto ;^) Otherwise, you could scoop a contributing authors list through one of the news archivers for as far back as they go. I figure that roughly 500 authors have contributed (positively or otherwise) since Opening Day. /daytripper (who’s heading for the Cape of Cod for the week. Buh Bye! ;^)

Response:

thomas, is there any way that you or some other tekkie could roughly determine the number of posters/lurkers on roff at the present?

Well, number of posters would be fairly easy. However, if there’s someone out there who can tell how many lurkers there are, please let me know. I have a few questions to ask about my future. –Steve

Response:

Tom;   From a self professed computer geek and fly fishing fanatic, thank you.          Frank Reid Before you buy.

Response:

, I posted stats on who the top posters were per year.  Readership was about 20,000-40,000 in the early years

        thomas, is there any way that you or some other tekkie could roughly determine the number of posters/lurkers on roff at the present? wayno

Response:

Amen! Well done Tom. This ng and ROFFT are the major reasons I enjoy my online time. — Jamie http://clik.to/flyfish

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tom;   From a self professed computer geek and fly fishing fanatic, thank you.          Frank Reid Before you buy.

Response:

Wayne Harrison: … is there any way that you or some other tekkie could roughly determine the number of posters/lurkers on roff at the present?

Someone somehow used to post USENET readership statistics in one of the news.* newsgroups.  I think they derived actual readership numbers from some NNTP servers, and then did some reasonable math to come up with total readership.  They would also list top posters for the top lists. Someone with time on their hands might cruise the news.* groups to see if they still post such results. Thomas Gilg

Response:

Someone with time on their hands might cruise the news.* groups to see if they still post such results.

I found: http://metalab.unc.edu/usenetb-bin/to-group.pl?rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Not that I have time on my hands you understand<g. — Charlie…

Response:

Remarq.com, which I use as a free newsreader (hence the stupid phone ad at the bottom of my posts) lists ROFF as having 1958 Threads and 2241 posters. Don’t know how far back that goes nor how many of those posters are various "G" alias’ Cheers, Allen Epps Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Wayne Harrison: … is there any way that you or some other tekkie could roughly determine the number of posters/lurkers on roff at the present? Someone somehow used to post USENET readership statistics in one of the news.* newsgroups.  I think they derived actual readership numbers from some NNTP servers, and then did some reasonable math to come up with total readership.  They would also list top posters for the top lists.

You could make REALLY crude guesstimates, but it would be nearly impossible to get real numbers short of asking every ISP newsprovider to track each of their users and report back. They probably did something like, there are x news providers, with y average users a piece, z% of their users read usenet and then look at the posting amounts of each newsgroup to get some idea of the popularity of various group’s readers. It’s probably a good estimate +-40-50%.      - Ken —     "I was gratified to be able to answer promptly,       and I did.  I said I didn’t know."     — Mark Twain

Response:

Someone with time on their hands might cruise the news.* groups to see if they still post such results. I found: http://metalab.unc.edu/usenetb-bin/to-group.pl?rec.outdoors.fishing.fly

Thanks.  On that site I found their explanation on how the readership is estimated… "Readers      Estimated total number of people who read this group, worldwide      There are two sources of error in this number. The number is      computed by multiplying the number of people in the sample who      actually read the group by the ratio of estimated network size to      sample size. The estimated total can therefore be biased by errors in      the network size estimate (see above) and also by errors in the      determination of whether or not someone reads a group. Assuming that      "reading a group" is roughly the same as "thumbing through a      magazine", in that you don’t necessarily have to read anything, but      you have to browse through it and see what is there, then the      measurement error will come primarily from inability to locate .newsrc      files, which can either be protected or moved out of root directories.      There is no way of measuring the effect on the measurements from      unlocated .newsrc files, but it is not likely to be more than a few      percent of the total news readers. "      - Ken —     "I was gratified to be able to answer promptly,       and I did.  I said I didn’t know."     — Mark Twain

Response:

Someone with time on their hands might cruise the news.* groups to see if they still post such results. I found: http://metalab.unc.edu/usenetb-bin/to-group.pl?rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Not that I have time on my hands you understand<g. — Charlie…

    chocolat, you da king uh da world!  and the source is located in a unc.edu file–unfreaking impeachable! wayno

Response:

Question:

The fall is a great time for fishing the West. My wife and I do our annual regular 2 week car bum in Sept/Oct. Best time for avoiding crowds and in the NW in particular is argueably the best season. Suggest you read Ted Leason’s book for a rundown on the basics of year rounded fishing in the NW. Dave

Hey George, I don’t think David is any sort of traitor. Hell, I’ve bummed around a good part of Idaho for the last 15 years, kayaking and fishing in the summer. I’ve also been on this newsgroup since quite a while before you started posting here. I don’t post much now because I’m making my own bamboo rods and don’t intend to go the Bastard route, I’ve had my fill of the C&R debate so mainly I lurk now with an occasional comment. Hell man, I even have a bottle of Gink on my vest!! Watch out, I may even drop in on your facility unannounced one day! Cheers. Jon

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thought I’d probe you guys for a few suggestions. My wife and I are going out west in early fall to scope out some property. As part of this trip, we want to take a week for flyfishing (both are avid ff). I am looking for some suggestions as to good places to try. We have fished Montana extensively in the summer but never in the fall. We figured we could go to the Red Lodge or Bozeman area and bum around or perhaps get a guide to float the Yellowstone. Is this a good time (or even worthwhile) to float the Yellowstone (I figure around the big bend area might be best; this is one river we have never fished)? Suggestions? Our other thought is to go to Oregon. We have friends there and could combine the goals of the trip. Again, is this a decent time to go and where would you suggest? We have some free airline tickets coming up and are pretty flexible. The main thing we want to avoid is being shoulder to shoulder with a bunch of people (its OK for us to be around people, I just would prefer to avoid being in a crowd of urban maniacs going after some standard steelhead run near a metropolitan area, if you know what I mean). Anyway, all suggestions are appreciated. We are both pretty comfortable with doing exploratories and the general wilderness adventure scene. I know this request is pretty general. Its the fall season fishing that we are relatively unfamiliar with out there. Thanks for any input. Jon McAnulty

–Jon, If you have never fished the Deschutes river (Oregon) in the fall your missing one of the best rivers in the world to catch steelhead on a fly on the surface.   There will be plenty of room without many fishermen if you go in Oct.   October is when the big "B" class Idaho fish enter the river (15-25lb).   A 20lb steelhead in a fast moving river on a fly rod is a fish of a life time.   Drop me a line if you want more info. Sharp Hooks, Pat Holdzit Fishing Products Inc. http://www.holdzit.com Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

The full title is "The Habit of Rivers," (Reflections on Trout Streams and Fly Fishing), by Ted Leeson. Its literate and then some, and a useful perspective on NW fishing. Dave

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Thanks for the reply. Any title on that book? I suspect it is obvious but an exact title would help as I will probably have to order it. Thanks again. Jon

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The fall is a great time for fishing the West. My wife and I do our annual regular 2 week car bum in Sept/Oct. Best time for avoiding crowds and in the NW in particular is argueably the best season. Suggest you read Ted Leason’s book for a rundown on the basics of year rounded fishing in the NW. Dave

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thought I’d probe you guys for a few suggestions. My wife and I are going out west in early fall to scope out some property. As part of this trip, we want to take a week for flyfishing (both are avid ff). I am looking for some suggestions as to good places to try. We have fished Montana extensively in the summer but never in the fall. We figured we could go to the Red Lodge or Bozeman area and bum around or perhaps get a guide to float the Yellowstone. Is this a good time (or even worthwhile) to float the Yellowstone (I figure around the big bend area might be best; this is one river we have never fished)? Suggestions? Our other thought is to go to Oregon. We have friends there and could combine the goals of the trip. Again, is this a decent time to go and where would you suggest? We have some free airline tickets coming up and are pretty flexible. The main thing we want to avoid is being shoulder to shoulder with a bunch of people (its OK for us to be around people, I just would prefer to avoid being in a crowd of urban maniacs going after some standard steelhead run near a metropolitan area, if you know what I mean). Anyway, all suggestions are appreciated. We are both pretty comfortable with doing exploratories and the general wilderness adventure scene. I know this request is pretty general. Its the fall season fishing that we are relatively unfamiliar with out there. Thanks for any input. Jon McAnulty

– Mr. G. ‘all’s fair with fur or feather’ http://www.gink.com http://www.rodbuilding.com http://www.xink.com 509-243-4100 or 5500

Question:

I have a close friend stationed in Okinawa.  I was wondering if the group could point me in the direction of cheap flights to there.  Also, what are some touristy things I can do while there, I plan on being there for about a week.  Please post or e-mail privately Thanks for your help. WILLZZ….

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I have a close friend stationed in Okinawa.  I was wondering if the group could point me in the direction of cheap flights to there.  Also, what are some touristy things I can do while there, I plan on being there for about a week.  Please post or e-mail privately Thanks for your help. How can we possibly give you advice on cheap fares if we do not know where you lve!!!! The whole world is reading this Newsgroup. Do you live in Amsterdam, the Netherlands? Then I can give you some rates. Giny, Tozai Travel, Amsterdam

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I have a close friend stationed in Okinawa.  I was wondering if the group could point me in the direction of cheap flights to there.  Also, what are some touristy things I can do while there, I plan on being there for about a week.  Please post or e-mail privately Thanks for your help.

There’s not a great deal to see on Okinawa Island, but the major tourist sight is Shuri Castle in Naha (the capital city). It’s reconstructed, but very well done. There’s also a big market (Ichiba) in Naha and, nearby, an interesting area of potters’ workshops (Tsuboya district). After that, most people take a tour round the WWII battle sights in the south of the island. For example the Underground Navy Headquarters – where you go down into the tunnels and there’s a small museum. Heading northwards, Ryukyu Mura is a reasonably interesting "culture village", and then there are the beaches such as Moon Beach and Tiger Beach. With your own transport, I’d recommend the far north, where you find some more traditional fishing villages, and more mountains. There are a couple of castle ruins to visit, too. But, if the weather’s good and you have time, the best of Okinawa is really the outer islands. The Kerama islands are quite close by – a ferry ride from Naha – but the most beautiful are the southern islands such as Miyako-jima, Ishigaki-jima and Iriomote-jima. As you’ve only got a week, I think you’ld need to pick just one of these and fly from Naha. Author, The Rough Guides to Vietnam and Japan http://www.roughguides.com

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There a lot of nice place to vsit while in Okinawa.   I recommend to visit some, Shuri Castle (in Naha), Himeyuri Park (cactus park, in Naha), Gyukusendo Cave(Naha), Okinawa Zoo(Kodomo no kuni) close to Gate 2 of Kadena Air Base,  Wine Factory (in Nago), Yambaru (Park for dfferent kinds of birds, Nago),  Ryukyu Mura (old Okinawan Village, close to Torrii Station),  Okinawa Memorial Park (Nago).  Navy Underground Headquarter.  If you like to play Golf, theres a lot of driving range, and Golf Course.  Try to go to some of this places, I’m sure you gonna have a goodtime. And at night you can try to go to Big Echo(Karaoke Bar). Pyramid (for Disco). HAVE FUN…

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Question:

I have reservations at the West Branch Anglers on the Delaware for the first       week in June. Any thoughts on fishing this stretch or should I         check out other sections of the west branch or possibly the east branch. I do have maps with other areas. But since this is my first trip I want to make the most of it, i do realize that you can’t get to know a river on your first trip but any help would certainly be appreciated. Thanks!            

I was there yesterday 5/28. The water was normal and 60.3 F. It was around 50F, ambient, with a bitter wind that made it feel like high 30s. I have never seen anything like the hatches that were there. The following were on the water all   around the same time: Cream Caddis #14, Light Hendrikson #14, Brown Drake #10 (?), Pale Evening Dun (#14), BWO (#18 or #20), March Brown (#16), Gray Fox (#16). I fished the main branch below Hancock. There was no spinner fall that I could see in the daylight hours. The hatches themselves were not very plenitful but it was enough to get fish moving. I got six fish including a 14" brownie an 18" Rainbow (the largest wild fish I have ever caught).  Truly memorable for me. I observed another fisherman land a 20" brownie. I think you are in for a good time, but do get some advice on the hatches as my understanding is that everything is a couple of weeks behind. You’ll have a lot of fun.

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Phil, I agree with your advice about going to the Delaware River Club.  It sounds like you fish the Delaware fairly regularly, so I have a question for you.  Have you ever caught a trout in the big pool at the junction of the East and West branches?  I once spent an entire day fishing there without catching anything even though fish were rising all over.  Last weekend, my dad and I each caught one riser from that pool and they both turned out to be suckers.  When the sun came out and I stood up on the banks, I could see a lot of suckers, some rising, but not one trout.  I wouldn’t be surprised if I couldn’t see trout on the bottom in the deep water, but I’m sure I could identify them if they were rising.  I’ve never encountered rising suckers before, so up until now I assumed the pool held plenty of rising trout.  Now I have to wonder.  BTW, we did catch plenty of trout a little downstream of the junction pool.

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And don’t forget to catch Al Caucci’s web site online at www.mayfly.com for advice and the interactive match-the-hatch chart. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have reservations at the West Branch Anglers on the Delaware for the first    week in June. Any thoughts on fishing this stretch or should I check out other sections of the west branch or possibly the east branch.    I do have maps with other areas. But since this is my first trip I want to make the most of it, i do realize that you can’t get to know a river on your first trip but any help would certainly be appreciated. Thanks! I prefer Al Caucci’s Delaware River Club, on the W. Branch closer to Hancock.   W.B. Anglers have better accomodations, but Caucci’s knowlege of the river and its inhabitants is unequalled.  You might want to stop in at Caucci’s fly shop f or some advice and flies. I fished up there 5/22, in the area of the PA state woodlands between Caucci’s and W.B. Anglers.  The river had only become fishable in the preceding day or so, as extremely high water brought on by seemingly incessant rains subsided.  The river was still high, but definitely wadeable and fishable.  There was a lot of hendrickson hatching and spinner-falling, but not a lot of fish activity on the surface.  Emergers seemed to work best. Normally the hendricksons are gone by early May, but everything is late this year.  You’ll probably have excellent fishing, with luck a sulfur spin ner fall which has provided me the best fishing on that river.   Also fish the Main Stem of the  Delaware below the junction of the E and W Branches in Hancock.  There are big trout there if you can cast far enough. Good luck Phil Holt

– — Steven Schwartz Bella Vena, Inc. www.panix.com/~tarpon/bellahome.html

Response:

I have reservations at the West Branch Anglers on the Delaware for the first    week in June. Any thoughts on fishing this stretch or should I check out other sections of the west branch or possibly the east branch.        I do have maps with other areas. But since this is my first trip I want to make the most of it, i do realize that you can’t get to know a river on your first trip but any help would certainly be appreciated. Thanks! I prefer Al Caucci’s Delaware River Club, on the W. Branch closer to Hancock.   W.B. Anglers have better accomodations, but Caucci’s knowlege of the river and its inhabitants is unequalled.  You might want to stop in at Caucci’s fly shop for some advice and flies.

Ditto.   The West Branch seems to be trying too hard to be this exclusive flyfishing destination complete with the exclusive price.   Granted, the cabins at W.B.A. might be real nice but it’s the same river and the section at D.R.C. just *looks* a lot more fishable. I’ve also found that Bob and his wife (they run the flyshop) to be extremely congenial and very willing to share information.  When I was there with my girlfriend (who doesn’t fish) last year they asked her if she’d like to borrow some waders (not rent!) so that she would wade in the river with me.  While we were staying in the lodge there was a flyfishing school taking place and as I wandered by the dining area where the class had just had breakfast I asked if they had any coffee.  He said come on in an have whatever you want and the just left.  We had our choice of cereals, fruits and some breakfast rolls, or all three.   It’s these kinds of little things that makes staying in a place much more enjoyable. I also got a chance to see Al Caucci showing someone how to do a double haul.  He was amazing. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

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I have reservations at the West Branch Anglers on the Delaware for the first    week in June. Any thoughts on fishing this stretch or should I check out other sections of the west branch or possibly the east branch.        I do have maps with other areas. But since this is my first trip I want to make the most of it, i do realize that you can’t get to know a river on your first trip but any help would certainly be appreciated. Thanks!

I prefer Al Caucci’s Delaware River Club, on the W. Branch closer to Hancock.   W.B. Anglers have better accomodations, but Caucci’s knowlege of the river and its inhabitants is unequalled.  You might want to stop in at Caucci’s fly shop for some advice and flies. I fished up there 5/22, in the area of the PA state woodlands between Caucci’s and W.B. Anglers.  The river had only become fishable in the preceding day or so, as extremely high water brought on by seemingly incessant rains subsided.  The river was still high, but definitely wadeable and fishable.  There was a lot of hendrickson hatching and spinner-falling, but not a lot of fish activity on the surface.  Emergers seemed to work best. Normally the hendricksons are gone by early May, but everything is late this year.  You’ll probably have excellent fishing, with luck a sulfur spinner fall which has provided me the best fishing on that river.   Also fish the Main Stem of the  Delaware below the junction of the E and W Branches in Hancock.  There are big trout there if you can cast far enough. Good luck Phil Holt

Response:

I fished the West Branch and the main stem just below the junction of the east and west branches this weekend.  There was a sparse Hendrickson hatch above Balls Eddy (I didn’t fish upstream of the PA line, but I imagine the hatch was better upstream).  There were a few caddis in the afternoons, but not enough to bring up many fish.  Sunday afternoon there was a good caddis/hendrickson/march brown (?) hatch in the afternoon and evening on the main stem.  The water level went down at lest eight inches between Thursday and Sunday.  Since I saw mostly Hendricksons, I guess all of the hatches are probably running a few weeks later than usual.  I wish I could go back in two weeks.

Response:

I have reservations at the West Branch Anglers on the Delaware for the first    week in June. Any thoughts on fishing this stretch or should I check out other sections of the west branch or possibly the east branch.        I

The people at West Branch will be able to direct you to various areas.   You can move around freely – find your own spots.  Right now fishing is less than ideal and fishing pressure less than usual.   See http://www.castle.net/~sglad/fishnet6.htm for additional info.

Response:

I have reservations at the West Branch Anglers on the Delaware for the first    week in June. Any thoughts on fishing this stretch or should I         check out other sections of the west branch or possibly the east branch.        I do have maps with other areas. But since this is my first trip I want to         make the most of it, i do realize that you can’t get to know a river on your first trip but any help would certainly be appreciated. Thanks!                

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Question:

Anyone subscribe to the 8wt. Journal?  If so, have you received the January issue? Thanks, Larry Lincoln, NE   USA "Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes."    Thoreau

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Anyone subscribe to the 8wt. Journal?  If so, have you received the January issue?

Bummer, got my answer in the mail today.  8wt. Journal has ceased publication.  John Likakis, 8wt. Journal’s editor, is the new editor of American Angler.  Subscribers have the option of fulfilling their 8wt. Journal subscription with American Angler, Flyer Tyer or Saltwater Fly Fishing. Larry

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Question:

Fished with Capt. Ron Rebeck of Backcountry Charters in Florida. Ron holds the 1994 world record Ladyfish title on fly. We caught literally a hundred or more Ladyfish, Reds, and Large Jacks. We weighed several of "my" Ladyfish for possible titles. Many fish "just" short. What a thrill. All on fly. They have a toll free no. 1-800-932-REEL(9335). This guy is the best guide I have ever fished with. Hope you try him out…enjoy!

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Fished with Capt. Ron Rebeck of Backcountry Charters in Florida. Ron holds the 1994 world record Ladyfish title on fly. We caught literally a hundred or more Ladyfish, Reds, and Large Jacks. We weighed several of "my" Ladyfish for possible titles. Many fish "just" short. What a thrill. All on fly. They have a toll free no. 1-800-932-REEL(9335). This guy is the best guide I have ever fished with. Hope you try him out…enjoy!

Where were you fishing out of and how big is this world record ladyfish.  I lived and fished in SW Florida for quite a few years and always enjoyed catching ladyfish.  They fight as spectacularly as most anything. tight lines

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Question:

The fish are way easy to catch, and there’s a helluva lot more in the game than in the river.  I delude myself into thinking I’m honing my skills for my next visit to the McCloud.

Ditto.  I had more hookups while playing the game for 3 minutes than I’ve had on my previous 3-4 days on the McCloud.  Well, for $50, you don’t want to be skunked! Frank Holminski’s (sp?) response was that this game reflects the seasonal hatches and conditions you’ll encounter on this great river.  So, the buy the game and you shouldn’t have any zero-fish days — although I heard nothing about a money-back guarantee! I must admit, at the San Mateo show last weekend, whenever someone got a hookup, and you’d hear the ol’ reel scream through the PC speakers, that attracted more bystanders, as well as getting your adrenaline going!   For us Mac users, Frank says a Mac version may be developed later if they can get funding…my God, is not even flyfishing exempt from "vaporware"? Bill Uyeki

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Yeah, got sucked into it myself.  In fact, my buddy bought me a copy.  I don’t find it a problem to run it outside of windows.  Alt+M to lose the music.  Can’t wait for new fishing holes, and maybe some different tunes. Chatted the whole thing up with Frank H. while I was there.  Cool game. The fish are way easy to catch, and there’s a helluva lot more in the game than in the river.  I delude myself into thinking I’m honing my skills for my next visit to the McCloud.

Response:

Many people think the Fly Fishing the McCloud River Game is CD ROM when they see it demonstrated. It is not but to get the great scans and animation that truly give the feel for dead driting an Adams or nymphing with a PT,  the game’s program uses approx 550 K of conventional memory while running.  This requires a memory mgt solution such as memmaker. The program is only 2.7 meg.  The game was the show stopper at the San Mateo ISO this past week, just ask Lefty DH

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Does anyone have any experience or comments about  this product?

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p because you need a config.sys with virtually nothing else configured for the program to run.  Once going, is challenging and fun.  Without sound, is hard to judge when fish are running.  Good luck.

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Question:

hmmmmm an angleworm… does that work better that a dry fly !!!!!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –      In his book "How to Fish the Pacific Coast" author Ray Cannon made the following observation:      "The aristocrat of ocean fisherman is the surf angler.  His pride, prestige, and dignity would be shattered if he were caught fishing on a pier, a boat, or off the rocks.  He would no more fish such places than a dry-fly man would use angleworm.      "The surf man’s field is the soft, clean beach, where the foaming white breakers beat to the rhythm of the sea’s pulse and recharge the waters with effervescing oxygen.  There is no other type of fishing that seems to have such a magnetic drag on its followers.  Such is the lure of the laundered sands."     "…the surf man enjoys dealing with nature single handed.  He dislikes being surrounded with manmade contrivances and helpers to give him bait and gaff his fish.  His ideas are exactly opposite to those of the swordfish angler, who fishes from a swivel chair and has almost everything done for him, even to having the boat chase his hooked gamefish.  The surf angler likes being a lone sea wolf."      I am inclined to agree.      Good fishing,

I would be inclined to agree too, except that I like to catch fish :^) Surf fishing is the most aesthetic way to catch surf species, but the pier has it beat all to hell for results.  Plus, I always get leery of the us vs them attitude implicit in the excerpt abobe; as though one kind of fishing is better than another, or one kind of fisherman is better than another.    The line beginning with "There is no other type of fishing that seems to have such a magnetic drag on it’s followers." discounts too easily the fly fisherman on his stream chasing the mighty salmon or trout,  or the river smallmouth wader casting his jigs and plugs for that one bronzeback of a lifetime, or any of the other scenarios that we pick up over a lifetime of fishing.   I have glided across a remote canadian lake at sunset, trolling for lake trout against a background of tall pines and the calls of loons.   Is that any ‘better’ than battling your first big pike, or straining against a slammer blue in the Carolina surf, or seeing an irridescent dolphin (mahi-mahi) leap out of an azure ocean as it tries to shake your hook?     Don’t get too hung up on that beach,  you can miss a lot of great fishing, and miss meeting some good people too. I can agree with the premise though, it is exhilirating to be standing on a beach on a crisp fall morning, with a rising tide, and casting plugs or bucktails for speckled trout in the trough.  Or wading the trough in the summer, casting a strip of squid for a fat summer flounder.  Or casting spoons, bucktails, or even bare hooks with a strip of cloth for rampaging bluefish as they churn the water to a bloody froth.   The only problem is the dry periods between bites, the inability to get to the fish that are beyond the next bar, and having to haul all your stuff onto the beach. Terry —    DoD# 541                           |  no matter how good it looks."                                         |         ‘Poison’ Ivy Rorschach  

Response:

     In his book "How to Fish the Pacific Coast" author Ray Cannon made the following observation:      "The aristocrat of ocean fisherman is the surf angler.  His pride, prestige, and dignity would be shattered if he were caught fishing on a pier, a boat, or off the rocks.  He would no more fish such places than a dry-fly man would use angleworm.      "The surf man’s field is the soft, clean beach, where the foaming white breakers beat to the rhythm of the sea’s pulse and recharge the waters with effervescing oxygen.  There is no other type of fishing that seems to have such a magnetic drag on its followers.  Such is the lure of the laundered sands."     "…the surf man enjoys dealing with nature single handed.  He dislikes being surrounded with manmade contrivances and helpers to give him bait and gaff his fish.  His ideas are exactly opposite to those of the swordfish angler, who fishes from a swivel chair and has almost everything done for him, even to having the boat chase his hooked gamefish.  The surf angler likes being a lone sea wolf."      I am inclined to agree.      Good fishing,      Mark Rosen

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