Question:

Hard to compare a 50.00 pair of pants to an 800.00 appliance.

Cabelas should take an example from L.L.Bean.  While in high school I

bought  a pair of wool hunting pants with leather lined pockets.  About ten years later (I had gone into the Navy) I found them in

my closet.  The pants were in great shape but the leather pockets had dry rotted and fell apart.   Okay, they repair there boots

I’ll call and see if I can get a new set of pockets (I fully expected to pay).  L.L.Bean said to send them the pants and they would

look at them.   A month later I get a new pair in the mail with a letter saying that satisfaction is garrenteed for life and they

felt the leather should have outlasted the wool.  No Charge! When you are a top of the line company and treat your customers like your

job depends on each one (which it does) you form a brand – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – loyalty that makes your company solid and secure. — Bill Pentheny Adams Co. (Pa) Bassmasters Chesapeake Bay Retriever Relief & Rescue www.cbrrescue.org

Response:

Walter! L L Bean, Pants, $50.00? I need the catalog they send you. Best Mike N

Response:

Cabelas should take an example from L.L.Bean.  While in high school I bought  a pair of wool hunting pants with leather lined pockets.  About ten years later (I had gone into the Navy) I found them in my closet.  The pants were in great shape but the leather pockets had dry rotted and fell apart.   Okay, they repair there boots I’ll call and see if I can get a new set of pockets (I fully expected to pay).  L.L.Bean said to send them the pants and they would look at them.   A month later I get a new pair in the mail with a letter saying that satisfaction is garrenteed for life and they felt the leather should have outlasted the wool.  No Charge! When you are a top of the line company and treat your customers like your job depends on each one (which it does) you form a brand loyalty that makes your company solid and secure. — Bill Pentheny Adams Co. (Pa) Bassmasters Chesapeake Bay Retriever Relief & Rescue www.cbrrescue.org

Response:

Maybe it is just me, but seems fair.  Buy something, do not get around to using it for a year, see the same thing for less or a better item, send back old unit for full credit.  Looks to me like a way for a company to end up Enron Style. As to Cabelas.  Ordered a reconditioned MinnKota 65 AP -60" shaft last Thursday.  They said should be here on the 16th.  Arrived today, $13 shipping for both items (also bought a retractable mount) from Nebraska to Calif. Bill – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, despite my best efforts in discussing this with Cabelas, it turns out they will NOT let me exchange my Minn Kota for the one with the internal transducer.  Darn!  They apparently have a 60-day window after purchase & will not help once the 60 days have passed.  I really thought they might help me since I explained that the motor is still in the box.  So fellas, remember this policy.  That motor was $750+, so apparently "how good a customer you are" plays no part in this policy.  I don’t know how this experience will affect my future orders with Cabelas.  Opinions? Warren2 Thanks fellas, I like what I’m hearing.  I’m gonna give this a go & let y’all know how I make out. Warren2 I can only say I buy almost exclusively from Cabaleas because of their excellent service. I bought two Guest chargers  from them and both  of them was faulty One wouldn’t shut off and the other wouldn’t charge I Called them and told them I couldn’t get to it as it was at my cottage 500 miles away. No problem  I got a replacement and it too was faulty  I sent them all back at this time and got credit. I had to eat the battery the charger burned up but this was not Cabaleas fault. I ended up ordering two new Duel Pro Chargers and haven’t had any further problems The point is the girl said she would make a note on my acct of the bad chargers and  she did. Cabeleas gets a A+ in my book I will be ordering my new fish finder from their as well as some fly fishing equipment. Their good service will net them several hundred dollars in sales from me JMO — Highlander

Response:

You are 100% correct in saying this Bill, I won’t hold it against Cabelas. It’s been 5 months or so, not quite a year.  I’m just cryin the blues I guess, it’s been a rough week old buddy. Warren2

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Maybe it is just me, but seems fair.  Buy something, do not get around to using it for a year, see the same thing for less or a better item, send back old unit for full credit.  Looks to me like a way for a company to end up Enron Style. As to Cabelas.  Ordered a reconditioned MinnKota 65 AP -60" shaft last Thursday.  They said should be here on the 16th.  Arrived today, $13 shipping for both items (also bought a retractable mount) from Nebraska to Calif. Bill Well, despite my best efforts in discussing this with Cabelas, it turns out they will NOT let me exchange my Minn Kota for the one with the internal transducer.  Darn!  They apparently have a 60-day window after purchase & will not help once the 60 days have passed.  I really thought they might help me since I explained that the motor is still in the box.  So fellas, remember this policy.  That motor was $750+, so apparently "how good a customer you are" plays no part in this policy.  I don’t know how this experience will affect my future orders with Cabelas.  Opinions? Warren2 Thanks fellas, I like what I’m hearing.  I’m gonna give this a go & let y’all know how I make out. Warren2 I can only say I buy almost exclusively from Cabaleas because of their excellent service. I bought two Guest chargers  from them and both  of them was faulty One wouldn’t shut off and the other wouldn’t charge I Called them and told them I couldn’t get to it as it was at my cottage 500 miles away. No problem  I got a replacement and it too was faulty  I sent them all back at this time and got credit. I had to eat the battery the charger burned up but this was not Cabaleas fault. I ended up ordering two new Duel Pro Chargers and haven’t had any further problems The point is the girl said she would make a note on my acct of the bad chargers and  she did. Cabeleas gets a A+ in my book I will be ordering my new fish finder from their as well as some fly fishing equipment. Their good service will net them several hundred dollars in sales from me JMO — Highlander

Response:

Well, despite my best efforts in discussing this with Cabelas, it turns out they will NOT let me exchange my Minn Kota for the one with the internal transducer.  Darn!  They apparently have a 60-day window after purchase & will not help once the 60 days have passed.  I really thought they might help me since I explained that the motor is still in the box.  So fellas, remember this policy.  That motor was $750+, so apparently "how good a customer you are" plays no part in this policy.  I don’t know how this experience will affect my future orders with Cabelas.  Opinions? Warren2

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks fellas, I like what I’m hearing.  I’m gonna give this a go & let y’all know how I make out. Warren2 I can only say I buy almost exclusively from Cabaleas because of their excellent service. I bought two Guest chargers  from them and both  of them was faulty  One wouldn’t shut off and the other wouldn’t charge I Called them and told them I couldn’t get to it as it was at my cottage 500 miles away. No problem  I got a replacement and it too was faulty  I sent them all back at this time and got credit. I had to eat the battery the charger burned up but this was not Cabaleas fault. I ended up ordering two new Duel Pro Chargers and haven’t had any further problems The point is the girl said she would make a note on my acct of the bad chargers and  she did. Cabeleas gets a A+ in my book I will be ordering my new fish finder from their as well as some fly fishing equipment. Their good service will net them several hundred dollars in sales from me JMO — Highlander

Response:

Thanks fellas, I like what I’m hearing.  I’m gonna give this a go & let y’all know how I make out. Warren2

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I can only say I buy almost exclusively from Cabaleas because of their excellent service. I bought two Guest chargers  from them and both  of them was faulty  One wouldn’t shut off and the other wouldn’t charge I Called them and told them I couldn’t get to it as it was at my cottage 500 miles away. No problem  I got a replacement and it too was faulty  I sent them all back at this time and got credit. I had to eat the battery the charger burned up but this was not Cabaleas fault. I ended up ordering two new Duel Pro Chargers and haven’t had any further problems The point is the girl said she would make a note on my acct of the bad chargers and  she did. Cabeleas gets a A+ in my book I will be ordering my new fish finder from their as well as some fly fishing equipment. Their good service will net them several hundred dollars in sales from me JMO — Highlander

Response:

I can only say I buy almost exclusively from Cabaleas because of their excellent service. I bought two Guest chargers  from them and both  of them was faulty  One wouldn’t shut off and the other wouldn’t charge I Called them and told them I couldn’t get to it as it was at my cottage 500 miles away. No problem  I got a replacement and it too was faulty  I sent them all back at this time and got credit. I had to eat the battery the charger burned up but this was not Cabaleas fault. I ended up ordering two new Duel Pro Chargers and haven’t had any further problems The point is the girl said she would make a note on my acct of the bad chargers and  she did. Cabeleas gets a A+ in my book I will be ordering my new fish finder from their as well as some fly fishing equipment. Their good service will net them several hundred dollars in sales from me JMO — Highlander

Response:

I bought a 74# MK Maxxum from Cabelas in the fall.  Now I get the new Catalog & they now have the same motor, only on the new model the transducer is inside the drive unit.  Two questions for you guys: 1) How do the internally-housed transducers compare sensitively to the externally mounted ones? 2) My motor is still in the box, never opened.  Will Cabelas swap me the newer version for the one I have? Warren2

Response:

You’d still come out ahead with Cabela’s. You will get full credit and only pay get free shipping on the replacement item. You will get stuck with shipping the motor back, but you will take a bath on eBay. — Citizen Fisherman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I bought a 74# MK Maxxum from Cabelas in the fall.  Now I get the new Catalog & they now have the same motor, only on the new model the transducer is inside the drive unit.  Two questions for you guys: 1) How do the internally-housed transducers compare sensitively to the externally mounted ones? Dunno. 2) My motor is still in the box, never opened.  Will Cabelas swap me the newer version for the one I have? Ask Cabela’s. But know that you or they will have to eat shipping charges.  Probably you.   How ’bout selling the older motor here or on eBay?

Response:

I bought a 74# MK Maxxum from Cabelas in the fall.  Now I get the new Catalog & they now have the same motor, only on the new model the transducer is inside the drive unit.  Two questions for you guys: 1) How do the internally-housed transducers compare sensitively to the externally mounted ones?

Dunno. 2) My motor is still in the box, never opened.  Will Cabelas swap me the newer version for the one I have?

Ask Cabela’s. But know that you or they will have to eat shipping charges.  Probably you.   How ’bout selling the older motor here or on eBay?

Response:

…imagine if computer dealers would do that….I’d gladly pay shipping charges to upgrade every six months…let us know how it turns out, eh.

I bought a 74# MK Maxxum from Cabelas in the fall.  Now I get the new

Catalog & they now have the same motor, only on the new model the transducer is inside the drive unit.  Two questions for you guys: 1) How do the internally-housed transducers compare sensitively to the

externally mounted ones? Dunno. 2) My motor is still in the box, never opened.  Will Cabelas swap me the

newer version for the one I have? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ask Cabela’s. But know that you or they will have to eat shipping charges.  Probably you.   How ’bout selling the older motor here or on eBay?

Response:

I buy a ton of stuff from Cabela’s, and they have the best customer service in the business, hands down. You probably don’t even need an RMA. Go to cabelas.com and get the live chat and you can take it up with them there. I’m sure you’ll be pleased. — Citizen Fisherman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I bought a 74# MK Maxxum from Cabelas in the fall.  Now I get the new Catalog & they now have the same motor, only on the new model the transducer is inside the drive unit.  Two questions for you guys: 1) How do the internally-housed transducers compare sensitively to the externally mounted ones? 2) My motor is still in the box, never opened.  Will Cabelas swap me the newer version for the one I have? Warren2

Response:

Question:

I’m mighty afraid one Frank will be holding on for dear life as a huge smallie heads for the Bay and the other Frank will be up at the camp store and up to no good with Katy! Watch out Frank!  Her husband has a gun….a BIG gun!

    My wife says to go for it either way, crab bait in the bay or human colander.  Sumpin’ about my GI life insurance thats good till the end of the month and the other policies I signed for the new job and house.  Is there a way I can combine the two and go out in a true blaze of glory?     BTW folks, I want to let you know that I will be celebrating this weekend.  I just got my grades in from my Capstone course for my Masters Degree.  Dun aced it.  I now be edumakated.  Will have that sheepskin in January.  But no more studying, just paperwork.  So if you see me late at night by the river projectile chumming, its just an old college tradition.  If its done into a noisy drum set, its an act of God d;)                                  Frank Reid Before you buy.

Response:

Frank, one of the few things at the camp store is ICE! Good chance I’ll be rolling in Saturday evening for some action (smallies not Katy).  I don’t want to get there and find some Frank in my favorite — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

Response:

Congratulations Frank!  Boy, just what we need, another overeducated newbie yuppie in the middle of the river waving a long stick around!! <G — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     My wife says to go for it either way, crab bait in the bay or human colander.  Sumpin’ about my GI life insurance thats good till the end of the month and the other policies I signed for the new job and house.  Is there a way I can combine the two and go out in a true blaze of glory?     BTW folks, I want to let you know that I will be celebrating this weekend.  I just got my grades in from my Capstone course for my Masters Degree.  Dun aced it.  I now be edumakated.  Will have that sheepskin in January.  But no more studying, just paperwork.  So if you see me late at night by the river projectile chumming, its just an old college tradition.  If its done into a noisy drum set, its an act of God d;)                                  Frank Reid

Response:

Your mention of visiting Katy brings rise (no pun intended) to a question of replenishing ice in my 60qt backbreaker cooler…do they got some, and could I get some from Katy (ice!)  In the scenario mentioned below, while I appreciate you even imagining me fooling around with a woman probably 1/3rd my age, I prefer to be the guy hanging on for dear life with the smallie, being drug out to sea.  An ass full of buckshot ain’t the way I wanna go!!  I’d love to go to dinner with you guys Wayne, but if it means not fishing during the best time of the day, on top with poppers or hoppers, I’ll pass.  No offense intended.  Man, I got some viscious looking black RabbitStripFlashers tied up, can’t wait. Frank (only one hole in my butt and I wanna keep it that way) Church

|In article | BTW, I’m in for Saturday night (hooray!).   There will be three of |us: me, | fishin’ buddy (Craig), & BIL(Mike).   Hope to get set up by dark. |Start the | campfire & chill the beer. | | Joe F. | |Will you guys be having dinner after you set-up or on the way in? |Frank and Frank will already be there but I won’t be able to get there |until around 6 pm.  If you’re eating on the way in we can get together |in Fredericksburg.  We might even be able to entice F&F to join us if |we can pry them off the river!  I’m mighty afraid one Frank will be |holding on for dear life as a huge smallie heads for the Bay and the |other Frank will be up at the camp store and up to no good with Katy! |Watch out Frank!  Her husband has a gun….a BIG gun! | |– |Wayne (no need to distinguish between Franks in the preceeding remarks) |To fish is human….To release Divine! | | |Before you buy.

Response:

BTW, I’m in for Saturday night (hooray!).   There will be three of us: me, fishin’ buddy (Craig), & BIL(Mike).   Hope to get set up by dark. Start the campfire & chill the beer. Joe F.

Will you guys be having dinner after you set-up or on the way in? Frank and Frank will already be there but I won’t be able to get there until around 6 pm.  If you’re eating on the way in we can get together in Fredericksburg.  We might even be able to entice F&F to join us if we can pry them off the river!  I’m mighty afraid one Frank will be holding on for dear life as a huge smallie heads for the Bay and the other Frank will be up at the camp store and up to no good with Katy! Watch out Frank!  Her husband has a gun….a BIG gun! — Wayne (no need to distinguish between Franks in the preceeding remarks) To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

Will you guys be having dinner after you set-up or on the way in? Frank and Frank will already be there but I won’t be able to get there until around 6 pm.  If you’re eating on the way in we can get together in Fredericksburg.

Hoping to get on the road by 5 p.m. and in the campground by 8.   Dinner in F’burg sounds good; but I’d really like to get set up by dark.   We’ll get there quicker if we just pick up clown food off the Rt 3 exit.   Or, we may pack food to go.   Or, SWMBO may insist on an early dinner w/ family (in which case departure time is wont to slip a bit).   If we make good time getting there, we may be able to grab a bite after setting up, but that’s too last-minute for you to plan dinner around. I’m still pulling it all together with the two guys on this end.   I played the BIL card masterfully, BTW.   It was SWMBO who suggested leaving Saturday (well okay, if you think that’s best <g). I’m psyched. Joe F.

Response:

departure time is wont to slip a bit).   If we make good time getting there, we may be able to grab a bite after setting up, but that’s too last- minute for you to plan dinner around. I’m still pulling it all together with the two guys on this end.   I played the BIL card masterfully, BTW.   It was SWMBO who suggested leaving Saturday (well okay, if you think that’s best <g). I’m psyched. Joe F.

OK!  See you at the campground.  I’m going to try to get over early enough to grab an hour or so on the river with popping bugs.  About an hour or so before you get there, and maybe you will be able to hear the ruckus while you’re setting up, the river should virtually ERUPT with rising small mouth!  Water levels look perfect and conditions should be ideal.  Cool nights, warm days , and with luck a tinge in cloudiness from a thundershower Friday night. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

Okay, okay…..I’ll make some notes and have the wife quiz me and I’ll learn all the hook names, sizes and numbers…….but I have on occasion tied with – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Good to hear that Wayne, didja cut some of that tail off?  I tole you those green monsters ketch smallies!  I *will* shorten the tails on the rest of mine.  BTW, I tied up a couple of monster black rabbit strip jobbies today, will do a few more over the weekend.  Thanks for the report, I’m still pumped!  The animals in question should have no fear since Dave LaCourse won’t be there.  (unless Frank Jr has weird inclinations we don’t know about, yet) ) Frank Church Elkhart, IN I started off |with one of Frank Church’s rabbit fur concoctions (large size) and had 2 |SAVAGE strikes in 2 casts!!  No hook-ups as they were striking short on the |long tail.  I switched to a Murray’s Lead-eyed Hellgrammite and took 5 small |mouth without leaving the same ledge and not walking more than 15 feet. Two |were over 14".  Now, this was in the first 30 minutes of fishing today. For |the rest of this trip report, you’ll have to listen to it at the Great |Rappahannock River Rendevouz August 20!

Response:

The animals in question should have no fear since Dave LaCourse won’t be there.  (unless Frank Jr has weird inclinations we don’t know about, yet) )

      Those inclinations are considered perfectly normal in the area of Los Angeles that I grew up.       Frank, took your fly and tied it in black with a shorter tail on a stinger hook with dumbell eyes.  I kept hearing about hellgrammites and black clousers so I figured your pattern would be awesome used the same way.  We’ll see about it when we get there.      I now have a wading staff.  I went to a local ski shop and they gave me an old banged up ski pole for free.  (okay, I begged a little). I figure the only disadvantage to it is it won’t collapse (but I may).      I’m definately getting psyched for this trip.  See you all there.                   Frank Reid Before you buy.

Response:

Cool Frank…after I sent the post asking Wayne if he shortened the rabbit strip, I thought to tie a stinger hook in tandem and somehow thread it thru the rabbit strip on a piece of 10 lb test line.  Gonna work on it this weekend.  BTW, dusted off the old portable grill and it works just fine…waited a little long to put the match to it after turning on the gas and received a WHOOMP! and a big ball of flame for my stupidity. Lucky I wasn’t leaning over it at the time. :-/ Frank (just call me "no eyebrows") Church

||      Frank, took your fly and tied it in black with a shorter tail on |a stinger hook with dumbell eyes.  I kept hearing about hellgrammites |and black clousers so I figured your pattern would be awesome used the |same way.  We’ll see about it when we get there.

Response:

   You been hanging around Joe Bruce’s Angler’s Edge I see.  Its a nice fly and takes about a third the time that my craw does and probably fishes just as well.  Mine’s cuddlier though.

Yes, and I was remiss to leave Joe’s name off the "Bruce’s Crystal Crayfish". I tied a bunch of ‘em last night while watching the Hill & Bill show.   They’re simple enough for me to tie, and that’s good.   My fly box for the RRR is growing nicely since I’ve been tying an hour or two each day for a week. BTW, I’m in for Saturday night (hooray!).   There will be three of us: me, fishin’ buddy (Craig), & BIL(Mike).   Hope to get set up by dark.   Start the campfire & chill the beer. Joe F. p.s. Wayne H. – Mike is also a black powder shooter.   (As opposed to white powder snorters <g)

Response:

OK Tim…imagine a wooley bugger dressed in Cactus Ice Chenille…I use lead eyes on a keel hook, wrap some .025 lead wire on first 3/4’s on the shank, and instead of the traditional marabou tail, tie in a chartruese rabbit strip, extending it forward and tie off ahead of the eyes.

Sounds very similar to the "Crystal Crayfish" I’m tying up.   Close to a bugger, except the tail is a couple small strips of rabbit & a couple long strands of copper flash.   The body is crystal chenille with lead eyes but no lead wire. Kind of a bastard cross between a wooly bugger & a Clouser minnow.   Tied with root beer colored chenille, it has a decent crayfish look to it. Joe F.

Response:

Sounds very similar to the "Crystal Crayfish" I’m tying up.   Close to a bugger, except the tail is a couple small strips of rabbit & a couple long strands of copper flash.   The body is crystal chenille with lead eyes but no lead wire. Kind of a bastard cross between a wooly bugger & a Clouser minnow. Tied with root beer colored chenille, it has a decent crayfish look to it. Joe F.

   You been hanging around Joe Bruce’s Angler’s Edge I see.  Its a nice fly and takes about a third the time that my craw does and probably fishes just as well.  Mine’s cuddlier though.              Frank Reid Before you buy.

Response:

Yeah Tim, know what you mean with the addiction stuff.  Really, I’m just a newbie tier, been fumbling around with it for about 2 yrs and still can only tie the simple ones and not too good at that.  One thing I have learned tho, the fish don’t give a dang how well you finished the fly if it looks good to eat.  I get all over the place eventually, whereabouts you located?  Come to think of it, if you’re fishing for smallies, send me your snail mail addy and I’ll ship a few over your way. Frank Church

|Frank, Next time your coming through here let me know. Maybe we can hook |up and I can see one of these guys. I am not tieing my own stuff,,,yet, |so I have a vague idea of what your talking about. I am planning on |doing a class through MLFS this fall,next step in the addiction I |reckon? Tim Long | | | OK Tim…imagine a wooley bugger dressed in Cactus Ice Chenille…I |use | lead eyes on a keel hook, wrap some .025 lead wire on first 3/4’s on |the | shank, and instead of the traditional marabou tail, tie in a |chartruese | rabbit strip, extending it forward and tie off ahead of the eyes. The | chartruese worked good for me on the James and Maury, and Wayne Hart | says to tie up some in black for the Rapp.  I’m in the middle of that | now.  I’m also going to incorporate a stinger hook extending back |under | the tail for the short strikers.  BTW, I make my own keel hooks with | judicious use of needlenose pliers on long shank streamer hooks, |either | straight ring eye or down eye.  Nothing fancy here. | | Frank Church | Elkhart, IN | USAF RET. |

| |I would like to hear more of this rabbit fur concoction of yours. If | the | |Rappahanok is fishing like the James you guys should have a great |time. | |Thursday the James was a little stained from the recent rains | |slowing down the top water action but wooly buggers and helgramite | |patterns were producing some nice fish in the riffles. A site I use | |alot, may help some of y’alls planning: | |http://va.water.usgs.gov/rt-cgi/gen_tbl_pg?page=1 | |Tim, wish I could be there, Long | | | | | | | | | | | | Cool Frank…after I sent the post asking Wayne if he shortened the | | rabbit strip, I thought to tie a stinger hook in tandem and somehow | | thread it thru the rabbit strip on a piece of 10 lb test line. |Gonna | | work on it this weekend.  BTW, dusted off the old portable grill |and | |it | | works just fine…waited a little long to put the match to it after | | turning on the gas and received a WHOOMP! and a big ball of flame |for | |my | | stupidity. | | Lucky I wasn’t leaning over it at the time. :-/ | | | | Frank (just call me "no eyebrows") Church | | | | ||      Frank, took your fly and tied it in black with a shorter |tail | |on | | |a stinger hook with dumbell eyes.  I kept hearing about | hellgrammites | | |and black clousers so I figured your pattern would be awesome used | |the | | |same way.  We’ll see about it when we get there. | | | | | | | | | |Before you buy. | | | | |Before you buy.

Response:

Frank, Next time your coming through here let me know. Maybe we can hook up and I can see one of these guys. I am not tieing my own stuff,,,yet, so I have a vague idea of what your talking about. I am planning on doing a class through MLFS this fall,next step in the addiction I reckon? Tim Long – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK Tim…imagine a wooley bugger dressed in Cactus Ice Chenille…I use lead eyes on a keel hook, wrap some .025 lead wire on first 3/4’s on the shank, and instead of the traditional marabou tail, tie in a chartruese rabbit strip, extending it forward and tie off ahead of the eyes.  The chartruese worked good for me on the James and Maury, and Wayne Hart says to tie up some in black for the Rapp.  I’m in the middle of that now.  I’m also going to incorporate a stinger hook extending back under the tail for the short strikers.  BTW, I make my own keel hooks with judicious use of needlenose pliers on long shank streamer hooks, either straight ring eye or down eye.  Nothing fancy here. Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RET. |I would like to hear more of this rabbit fur concoction of yours. If the |Rappahanok is fishing like the James you guys should have a great time. |Thursday the James was a little stained from the recent rains |slowing down the top water action but wooly buggers and helgramite |patterns were producing some nice fish in the riffles. A site I use |alot, may help some of y’alls planning: |http://va.water.usgs.gov/rt-cgi/gen_tbl_pg?page=1 |Tim, wish I could be there, Long | | | | | | Cool Frank…after I sent the post asking Wayne if he shortened the | rabbit strip, I thought to tie a stinger hook in tandem and somehow | thread it thru the rabbit strip on a piece of 10 lb test line. Gonna | work on it this weekend.  BTW, dusted off the old portable grill and |it | works just fine…waited a little long to put the match to it after | turning on the gas and received a WHOOMP! and a big ball of flame for |my | stupidity. | Lucky I wasn’t leaning over it at the time. :-/ | | Frank (just call me "no eyebrows") Church | | ||      Frank, took your fly and tied it in black with a shorter tail |on | |a stinger hook with dumbell eyes.  I kept hearing about hellgrammites | |and black clousers so I figured your pattern would be awesome used |the | |same way.  We’ll see about it when we get there. | | | | |Before you buy.

Before you buy.

Response:

OK Tim…imagine a wooley bugger dressed in Cactus Ice Chenille…I use lead eyes on a keel hook, wrap some .025 lead wire on first 3/4’s on the shank, and instead of the traditional marabou tail, tie in a chartruese rabbit strip, extending it forward and tie off ahead of the eyes.  The chartruese worked good for me on the James and Maury, and Wayne Hart says to tie up some in black for the Rapp.  I’m in the middle of that now.  I’m also going to incorporate a stinger hook extending back under the tail for the short strikers.  BTW, I make my own keel hooks with judicious use of needlenose pliers on long shank streamer hooks, either straight ring eye or down eye.  Nothing fancy here. Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RET.

|I would like to hear more of this rabbit fur concoction of yours. If the |Rappahanok is fishing like the James you guys should have a great time. |Thursday the James was a little stained from the recent rains |slowing down the top water action but wooly buggers and helgramite |patterns were producing some nice fish in the riffles. A site I use |alot, may help some of y’alls planning: |http://va.water.usgs.gov/rt-cgi/gen_tbl_pg?page=1 |Tim, wish I could be there, Long | | | | | | Cool Frank…after I sent the post asking Wayne if he shortened the | rabbit strip, I thought to tie a stinger hook in tandem and somehow | thread it thru the rabbit strip on a piece of 10 lb test line.  Gonna | work on it this weekend.  BTW, dusted off the old portable grill and |it | works just fine…waited a little long to put the match to it after | turning on the gas and received a WHOOMP! and a big ball of flame for |my | stupidity. | Lucky I wasn’t leaning over it at the time. :-/ | | Frank (just call me "no eyebrows") Church |

| ||      Frank, took your fly and tied it in black with a shorter tail |on | |a stinger hook with dumbell eyes.  I kept hearing about hellgrammites | |and black clousers so I figured your pattern would be awesome used |the | |same way.  We’ll see about it when we get there. | | | | |Before you buy.

Response:

I would like to hear more of this rabbit fur concoction of yours. If the Rappahanok is fishing like the James you guys should have a great time. Thursday the James was a little stained from the recent rains slowing down the top water action but wooly buggers and helgramite patterns were producing some nice fish in the riffles. A site I use alot, may help some of y’alls planning: http://va.water.usgs.gov/rt-cgi/gen_tbl_pg?page=1 Tim, wish I could be there, Long – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cool Frank…after I sent the post asking Wayne if he shortened the rabbit strip, I thought to tie a stinger hook in tandem and somehow thread it thru the rabbit strip on a piece of 10 lb test line.  Gonna work on it this weekend.  BTW, dusted off the old portable grill and it works just fine…waited a little long to put the match to it after turning on the gas and received a WHOOMP! and a big ball of flame for my stupidity. Lucky I wasn’t leaning over it at the time. :-/ Frank (just call me "no eyebrows") Church ||      Frank, took your fly and tied it in black with a shorter tail on |a stinger hook with dumbell eyes.  I kept hearing about hellgrammites |and black clousers so I figured your pattern would be awesome used the |same way.  We’ll see about it when we get there.

Before you buy.

Response:

Good to hear that Wayne, didja cut some of that tail off?  I tole you those green monsters ketch smallies!  I *will* shorten the tails on the rest of mine.  BTW, I tied up a couple of monster black rabbit strip jobbies today, will do a few more over the weekend.  Thanks for the report, I’m still pumped!  The animals in question should have no fear since Dave LaCourse won’t be there.  (unless Frank Jr has weird inclinations we don’t know about, yet) ) Frank Church Elkhart, IN

I started off |with one of Frank Church’s rabbit fur concoctions (large size) and had 2 |SAVAGE strikes in 2 casts!!  No hook-ups as they were striking short on the |long tail.  I switched to a Murray’s Lead-eyed Hellgrammite and took 5 small |mouth without leaving the same ledge and not walking more than 15 feet. Two |were over 14".  Now, this was in the first 30 minutes of fishing today. For |the rest of this trip report, you’ll have to listen to it at the Great |Rappahannock River Rendevouz August 20!

Response:

Traveled to the Rappahannock River Campground today.  Water level was ideal, temperature perfect, no one on the water but me (wife wasn’t feeling well so she kept her fly rod at home).  I headed to an area beyond where I usually fish to make sure I had room to spread out as many ROFFians as might show up Sunday week.  The water was gorgeous!  If ever there was a spot on earth made for breeding and raising small mouth bass, this was it!  I started off with one of Frank Church’s rabbit fur concoctions (large size) and had 2 SAVAGE strikes in 2 casts!!  No hook-ups as they were striking short on the long tail.  I switched to a Murray’s Lead-eyed Hellgrammite and took 5 small mouth without leaving the same ledge and not walking more than 15 feet.  Two were over 14".  Now, this was in the first 30 minutes of fishing today.  For the rest of this trip report, you’ll have to listen to it at the Great Rappahannock River Rendevouz August 20! Just so everyone’s got the straight skinny on the site I want you to know what you are getting yourself in for.  Campers can only have one vehicle at their campsite.  Clave Central may not open until 12 noon on the 20th.  I’ll be there by 0700 but the campsite is rented for the night before.  The non-ROFF inhabitants must pack out by noon but may leave earlier.  I’ll move in as soon as they leave.  If Frank and Frank make lewd gaseous noises and molesting motions toward their domestic animals they may be encouraged to leave earlier.  All non-camping fishermen must park by the camp store and walk down to the canoe launching ramp (about 200 yards).  Parking fee is $3.00 per vehicle + $1.00 per person.  I personally feel this may be discriminating against some families who live in their automobiles. Canoe trips are available from the campground.  They provide shuttle service and everything you need for the float.  Conditions are optimal!  By the same token, we can expect some canoe/tube traffic on Saturday and Sunday.  My experience has been this does not really effect the wading fisherman. Kayakers are another story but don’t shoot them this trip as Asadi will probably be out there.  Cornmuse, if you’re thinking of coming, get hold of Asadi now and plan the trip.  You’ll never get a better chance for a super quality small mouth trip. — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

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Question:

Hi, I was wondering if anyone has any experience with the Cabela’s FT flyrods. I was thinking of the 9′ 9 weight for casting big pike flies and for salmon etc. I’d just like to know who the manufacturer is and whether they are really a fast action rod like they claim and what a comparable name brand would be. They claim to save you as much as $200 because they don’t sell their name. Does that mean that the $230 FT 9′ 9 weight is as good as a $430 name brand rod? Thanks James

Response:

Hi, I was wondering if anyone has any experience with the Cabela’s FT flyrods. I was thinking of the 9′ 9 weight for casting big pike flies and for salmon etc. I’d just like to know who the manufacturer is and whether they are really a fast action rod like they claim and what a comparable name brand would be. They claim to save you as much as $200 because they don’t sell their name. Does that mean that the $230 FT 9′ 9 weight is as good as a $430 name brand rod?

Cabelas has a great return policy so I suggest buying one and trying it. Maybe you can do a side by side comparison with a pricier rod. Remember, a rod needs to suit you. Peter G. Aitken

Response:

Does that mean that the $230 FT 9′ 9 weight is as good as a $430 name brand rod?

Lefty Kreh says any rod over $200 casts better than almost everyone buying it. Is it "as good as"?  Depends on what you mean.  For all practical purposes, if the action of the rod suits your style, it could be as good as or better than a $430 rod.  More money buys you a label, usually better fit and finish but not always, and better resale value. Regards, Jeff

Response:

More money buys you a label, usually better fit and finish but not always, and better resale value.

Amem brother, last weekend I was looking at some pricy Orvis stuff and noticed the tip sections were all a bit warped and twisted. No way I’d pay that price for a rod that wasn’t straight and true, even if I can’t cast good enough to do the rod justice. Flyfish

Response:

Does that mean that the $230 FT 9′ 9 weight is as good as a $430 name brand rod? Lefty Kreh says any rod over $200 casts better than almost everyone buying it. Is it "as good as"?  Depends on what you mean.  For all practical purposes, if the action of the rod suits your style, it could be as good as or better than a $430 rod.  More money buys you a label, usually better fit and finish but not always, and better resale value. Regards, Jeff

Lefty actually says any rod over $100! Peter G. Aitken

Response:

More money buys you a label, usually better fit and finish but not always, and better resale value. Amem brother, last weekend I was looking at some pricy Orvis stuff and noticed the tip sections were all a bit warped and twisted. No way I’d pay that price for a rod that wasn’t straight and true, even if I can’t cast good enough to do the rod justice.

One thing to consider is that some rods come with a guarantee against breakage regardless of the cause. I have heard for example that if you break an L.L.Bean rod and call them, then if FedEx can find you, you will have a replacement the next day. This is a practical reason to pay a bit more for a rod, particularly if you are a klutz like me. Peter G. Aitken

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One thing to consider is that some rods come with a guarantee against breakage regardless of the cause. I have heard for example that if you break an L.L.Bean rod and call them, then if FedEx can find you, you will have a replacement the next day. This is a practical reason to pay a bit more for a rod, particularly if you are a klutz like me.

Yeah you’re right, I left that out.  That’s an important point.  A lot of the "top dollar" rods offer that and it’s nothing to sneeze at! Regards, Jeff

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The only guarantee I would ever pay extra money for, is if they guarantee that I will live a hundred years to fish with it. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

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Lefty actually says any rod over $100!

Now that you hold me to it, I can’t remember where I read it.  What book is that from?  Thanks, Jeff Regards, Jeff

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The only guarantee I would ever pay extra money for, is if they guarantee that I will live a hundred years to fish with it.

Sure, I’ll give you that guarantee. If you die you can sue me! Peter Aitken

Response:

It is in Advanced Fly Fishing Techniques – a terrific book, by the way, for those who have not read it. Peter Aitken

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lefty actually says any rod over $100! Now that you hold me to it, I can’t remember where I read it.  What book is that from?  Thanks, Jeff Regards, Jeff

Response:

I think Cabela’s uses Loomis blanks for their higher priced rods. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I was wondering if anyone has any experience with the Cabela’s FT flyrods. I was thinking of the 9′ 9 weight for casting big pike flies and for salmon etc. I’d just like to know who the manufacturer is and whether they are really a fast action rod like they claim and what a comparable name brand would be. They claim to save you as much as $200 because they don’t sell their name. Does that mean that the $230 FT 9′ 9 weight is as good as a $430 name brand rod? Thanks James

Response:

Cabela’s FT flyrods. I’d just like to know who the manufacturer is

Call Cabela’s and ask them!  That’s what I did.  I bought a nice 7 1/2 ft 4 wt several years ago that was made by Loomis. Sig Chicago

Response:

Cabela’s FT flyrods. I’d just like to know who the manufacturer is Call Cabela’s and ask them!  That’s what I did.  I bought a nice 7 1/2 ft 4 wt several years ago that was made by Loomis. Sig Chicago

Some time back I did ask them.  They refused to say.  A while back they were selling a very excellent fly reel that I thought was probably made by Ross.  They wouldn’t say on that one either.  Even though I was looking for parts they couldn’t supply.

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Question:

Folks, I may be in the northeast the week of March 15, and was wondering if there are any sections of rivers, streams etc, in upstate NY, VT or NH that are open. If so, what can one expect this time of the year re streamflow, hatches, best patterns to use? Thanks for any info you can provide! Alex

Alex, There are many rivers that are legally open in Vermont.  The question is whether they are open due to ice.  Two good bets, weather dependent, are the Winooski River and Lewis Creek.  Hatches are scant.  Wooly buggers are your best bet, as well as other streamers.  Brown stoneflies can be around if the spring is early. Stream flows are a coin toss from downright perrfect to flood to a July trickle depending on rain and snowfall.  Good luck and I would be happy to answer any other questions you might have. Vermont Outdoors Magazine 2 Church Street Burlington, VT 05401 (802) 860-0003 Fax: (802) 860-0005 http://www.vermontoutdoors.com

Response:

Folks, I may be in the northeast the week of March 15, and was wondering if there are any sections of rivers, streams etc, in upstate NY, VT or NH that are open. If so, what can one expect this time of the year re streamflow, hatches, best patterns to use? Thanks for any info you can provide! Alex

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Question:

make any difference what I write about.  They will always be there.  The idea is to learn how to nymph fish with words so as to avoid them.  I suppose I will have to nymph fish with just a bare hook from now on? LOL! Actually, WINTER is like fly fishing.  It is a contemplative man’s sport.  It is a good season and the time to get those flies tied and to clean out all the beat up flies and give them to our children.  (Or to those who don’t tie but still like to fly fish).   While the eastern sea board of this country enjoy the blanket of snow that has been so long overdue so that they can have a fresh water supply later into the year then of the recent past, I can visualize Walt Winter, Tom Brown, Wayne Harrison, Jeff Miller, and other gentlemen of the realm, sipping a libation and tying those diminutive little creations that fool very big fish. Fly-Maker’s Wax could/should be mentioned here because since Mike Overton’s untimely death, this is the improved product that originally was Wonder Wax.  What is amazing about having a nice wax on the fly tying bench is that these tubes last for over ten or more years for the majority of fly tiers.  For the commercial tier, they don’t last as long.  Maybe a year or a little more. What I want to talk about is fly tying wax at the vise site.  With the choice we use, there are some interesting features regarding the old and new formulas that cannot be found in any other waxes in the world.   When dubbing, the idea is to understand that "The Smaller the Fly, The Greater the Need" when it comes to using wax or not.  This is because greater control is required to lay the small amount of dubbing on a size #22 hook in such a manner as to form the body shape that is defined, not guessed at.   With the tube of wax right at hand, I have two basic choices on how to apply the wax and/or dubbing.  The first way is to simply stroke a little wax down the dubbing section of the thread to be used.  The second way is to take the shooting finger of your hand and simply rubbing it across the wax and then take a little dubbing and apply it to the thread, spinning in only one direction.   After one uses the latter method, a secret few know is if one has a little cloth on their lap, it is a simple matter to use just PRESSURE and the wax comes off the finger tips.  This wax grabs or releases depending upon the amount of pressure applied.  It is the only wax in the industry that will do this. I like perfectly formed flies.  They should almost look like the real thing.  The personality of fly tying materials are as varied as one could hope for.  Some of it needs to be forced into behaving correctly. A good Fly-Tying Wax will do that. A good wax will also help preserve the threads used that bind a fly for well over a hundred years.  The wax must have as near a neutral bouyance as possible.  In the water, it should not try to float the fly nor sink it.  That feature should be left up to other means. What about scents used in some brands of waxes is a personal choice, I suppose.  We don’t do that as our product has its own distinctive wax oder.  It comes from the base bee’s wax that is found in only one part of the United States and is a guarded secret.  To be perfectly frank, we suspect trout have no objection to ours on a sensory level.  Nothing ventured, nothing gained I suppose. If you wish to know more about fly tying waxes, visit the url below. Mr. G. — http://www.gink.com/gg_flymakers.html http://www.gink.com/

Response:

Gerkhe Gentlemen don’t spam the news groups to turn a buck.

Response:

Gerkhe Gentlemen don’t spam the news groups to turn a buck.

______  If and when we do, I’ll let you know.  I’d appreciate it if you would stick to fly fishing Plado.   Thank you, Mr. G. — http://www.gink.com/gg_flymakers.html

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Truly clueless.  Does not even realize what spam is.

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Question:

Wow! I had an 8′ dingy while I lived in Long Beach.  The Gator Boat looks like it would be just as easy to maneuver and horse in and out of a vehicle.  I’d throw my dingy in the back of my truck after work and hit Alamitos Bay.  Had some great times catching those Sand Bass.  Why did I ever move? Enjoy Bill

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Everyone! I’ve started buikding my first boat!!! I am got sick of casting from the sidelines when I see fish in hard to reach areas! So, I’ve gotten the plans for a "Gatorboat" and Yesterday I got the lumber. I’ve got the bottom section cut out and I am going to try to learn how to "rip" wood with my "Trip-Tramp". I am taking progress photo’s and I’ll post the sordid story on the site when I finish. Cheers! Oh. the URL for where I got the boat plans from is: http://www.gatorboats.com/ — Michael Era

Question:

Never been to Alaska…..But I’m very interested in going this summer toseethe sights and get in some fishing….I hear it is unbelievable! Can someone share information about their trips and make suggestionsforsomeone that has never been there before?  Where in Alaska to go? Motorhome rentals? Lodge rentals? Fishing vacation packages? Fishing Guides? Best time of year to go? Etc.

When I was there it was August and the fishing was fantastic!  We had some business to attend to in Anchorage, but were able to mix in 2 and 1/2 days fishing in Seward (about 2 1/2 hours south of Anchorage).  We fished in the Silver Salmon Derby and I actually had one fish that was in the top 15 fish on the first day, but didn’t stay there very long.  I would like to go back in late May/early June to get in on some of the barn door size halibut.  The days are so long you can fish almost 24 hours a day…it’s really a novel experience.  We fished on a Thu. afternoon and were scheduled to fish again Fri, but by the time the boat got in Thu (around 9 pm) and we got the fish cleaned and stowed at the packing company then had some dinner it was well after midnight.  Since we had to be back at 7 am to fish in Seward it made no sense to go back to Anchorage (5 hour round trip) so we started to look for a hotel.  Since the derby was going on the 2 hotels were all booked up.  So we did what a lot of folks do…3 of us spent the night in the rental car – at least it was an Explorer and had some room.  We fished until late afternoon on Friday, rushed back to Anchorage, packed our bags and just made our flight Friday night.  Dog tired…but worth every minute.  I can’t wait to go back. Brian Raines Publisher, TheChesapeakeBay.com http://TheChesapeakeBay.com

Response:

Alaska is definitely ALL it’s cracked up to be.   Last year we fished for king salmon on the Talkeetna River and halibut out of Homer.   We stayed mostly in B&B’s, but rented cabins in several locations.  We were there in late June and early July, and found the weather to be perfect.   There are many good packages, but we just did our own thing with quite a bit of internet research in advance.    It sounds like most of the higher priced lodgings in Anchorage will provide fish storage.  But for us more rustic accomodation seekers, it seems the best advice I’ve gotten so far is the airport storage facility which can be reached at 907-248-3485.   Thanks so much to everyone who has offered advice.  If I can help anyone with Alaska plans, would be glad to.  Marcia

  What kind of prices did you pay for the B&B’s and the cabins? Bill

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The B&B’s we stayed in ranged from $70 to $100 per night, the cabins  were $70 – $125.  These prices were for 2 people, although most places had room for extra people for $10 to $20 each per night.   I’m going with a group of 6 people this summer.   Our costs per night range from $150. to a high of $256. for all 6.   These prices usually include a full breakfast.     Marcia – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  What kind of prices did you pay for the B&B’s and the cabins? Bill

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Never been to Alaska…..But I’m very interested in going this summer to see the sights and get in some fishing….I hear it is unbelievable! Can someone share information about their trips and make suggestions for someone that has never been there before?  Where in Alaska to go? Motorhome rentals? Lodge rentals? Fishing vacation packages? Fishing Guides? Best time of year to go? Etc. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When I went to Alaska and fished I had the lodge pack and freeze the fish before I flew out.  Then when I got to my hotel in Anchorage they had a locker that they put the whole box in overnight.  Most hotels have this kind of facility for anglers and hunters.  Ewok I’ll be fishing in Alaska this summer with my family.   We fly home on July 5 and are looking for a cold storage facility in Anchorage where we can store our fish over night before the flight home.  Can you advise us as to a business that would be open to receive our fish on July 4?   Any help you

Response:

Alaska is definitely ALL it’s cracked up to be.   Last year we fished for king salmon on the Talkeetna River and halibut out of Homer.   We stayed mostly in B&B’s, but rented cabins in several locations.  We were there in late June and early July, and found the weather to be perfect.   There are many good packages, but we just did our own thing with quite a bit of internet research in advance.    It sounds like most of the higher priced lodgings in Anchorage will provide fish storage.  But for us more rustic accomodation seekers, it seems the best advice I’ve gotten so far is the airport storage facility which can be reached at 907-248-3485.   Thanks so much to everyone who has offered advice.  If I can help anyone with Alaska plans, would be glad to.  Marcia

Response:

I lead fishing tours in AK every year and the easiest place for your to do overnight storage is at the Anchorage Airport freezer locker.  There is a small fee for this but it is really convenient. If you need to have charters set up or information in the Kenai Penninsula, Homer or highway road to Denali, please feel free to email me at Michael Milne, Owner Outdoor Odyssey

Response:

When I went to Alaska and fished I had the lodge pack and freeze the fish before I flew out.  Then when I got to my hotel in Anchorage they had a locker that they put the whole box in overnight.  Most hotels have this kind of facility for anglers and hunters.  Ewok – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ll be fishing in Alaska this summer with my family.   We fly home on July 5 and are looking for a cold storage facility in Anchorage where we can store our fish over night before the flight home.  Can you advise us as to a business that would be open to receive our fish on July 4?   Any help you

Response:

Marcia, We fished in Seward two summers ago for a 5 day stretch – mixed up with some business in between.  (Seward is about 2 1/2 hours south of Anchorage)  At the dock there was a company that would vacuum pack your fish, quick freeze and store them and then ship them to you AFTER you left for home.  Worked great for us, even if the fish thawed slightly during shipping they were vacuum packed. We had around 80-100 lbs of halibut and salmon shipped from Alaska to our home on the East Coast in August and it worked great!  I would recommend this course of action highly. Best of luck… Brian Raines Publisher, TheChesapeakeBay.com http://TheChesapeakeBay.com I’ll be fishing in Alaska this summer with my family.   We fly home on July 5 and are looking for a cold storage facility in Anchorage where we can store our fish over night before the flight home.  Can you advise us as to a business that would be open to receive our fish on July 4?   Any help you

Brian Raines Publisher, TheChesapeakeBay.com http://TheChesapeakeBay.com

Response:

I’ll be fishing in Alaska this summer with my family.   We fly home on July 5 and are looking for a cold storage facility in Anchorage where we can store our fish over night before the flight home.  Can you advise us as to a business that would be open to receive our fish on July 4?   Any help you

Response:

Question:

we usually catch at least twenty big Browns (2-4 lbs) in an hour or so.

Curtis, I must have missed your first message where you gave the name of thr river you were fishing.  Just post it to me on private E-mail, we don’t want to bother all of the fishermen on this group with small talk. Ernie Harrison

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Fishing spawning beds ??? I dont know nuffink about the case in question guv, but fishing a spawning bed just does not seem to be a done thing old chap

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I think that’s a good assessment of the situation.  Thanks.

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I remember reading an article in either Trout or Fly Fisherman of a study that looked at the effect of wading across spawning beds on egg mortality. I don’t recall exact numbers, but more than 75% of the eggs were squashed in the study setting. Sounds like besides stressing this year’s fish, you are also impacting several years of fish classes.

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I remember reading an article in either Trout or Fly Fisherman of a study that looked at the effect of wading across spawning beds on egg mortality. I don’t recall exact numbers, but more than 75% of the eggs were squashed in the study setting. Sounds like besides stressing this year’s fish, you are also impacting several years of fish classes.

 Ditto!,   Flyfishing affords us the chance to think before we act..IF we choose to. sd

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Now that the Browns are spawning, I have been fishing the spawning beds quite heavily lately on our local river and have been wondering what effect it has on the spawing fish.  I’ve heard that if you’re careful where you step, the actual catching of the fish doesn’t have too much of an effect on them.  To give you an idea of what its like, we usually catch at least twenty big Browns (2-4 lbs) in an hour or so.  I would appreciate any comments or experience anyone might have.

  Curtis, think REAL hard now….does anyone go through your bed with corks on? Not  the best place to hook fish.   Harry

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writes: I would imagine that since fishing is allowed on this stream during the spawning period that the local biologists are not terribly worried about population level effects, either because the stream is heavilly stocked or there are adequate numbers of trout and spawning areas to compensate for the fish which are not able to complete spawning because of being caught.

I think that the Fish and Game departments are less concerned about numbers of fish and more interested in revenues. For a lot of people, the spawning periods and fishing on the beds are the only time that they can catch large numbers of fish on a lot of the heavily pressured rivers. The Wildlife Resource guys smile upon this because the happier their anglers are, the more liscenses they sell; the more liscenses they sell, the more money they make for their management needs. The problem with this is that resource management seems to be entirely about budgets rather than sensibility. Why protect a wild strain when you can make a bunch of money to stock the depleted river with hatchery fish the next year? One case which sticks out like a sore thumb is our local Provo River which has been so well advertised this year. Western Rivers Flyfisher {full service fly shop and outfitter} 867 East 900 South – SLC, UT 84105 (800)545-4312~~(801)521-6424~~fax(801)521-6329 Green River reports, Utah fishing conditions, and statewide guide info.

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As a non-scientist (but an avid angler) who follows this issue closely here in PA, I think Mark is dead on the money in his assessment…… Each individual stream is very much a situation unto itself in terms of population dynamics, recriutment, natural mortality, etc….  If wild trout in a freestone stream have a 40-70 percent annual natural mortality regardless of angling pressure, as I have read, then the effect of issues like catching and releasing spawning fish may be masked and indiscernable to the average angler from season to season……. However, in heavily pressured fisheries, I suppose every little bit hurts.   Additionally, it occurs to me that our measurement of fish abundance as anglers  tends to tell us very little in many cases…Here in PA, the prevailing management  strategy removes BT streams from the stocking list when they exceed a biomass of about 40 lb/surface acre of water.  Some of our better freestones hold in the 75-95 lb/acre range fairly consistently.  Now, if because of drought, flood, predation or fishing over spawners, stream A goes from 85 lb/acre last year to 60 lb/acre this year, do you think as anglers we would be able to tell the difference when we fished the stream?  60 lb/acre is still a lot of trout.  So the difference is kinda like waking up in the morning and finding 23 inches of snow on your car as opposed to 19 inches.  Either one is more than enough snow…  It’s all very subjective in my view….      

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Now that the Browns are spawning, I have been fishing the spawning beds quite heavily lately on our local river and have been wondering what effect it has on the spawing fish.  I’ve heard that if you’re careful where you step, the actual catching of the fish doesn’t have too much of an effect on them.  To give you an idea of what its like, we usually catch at least twenty big Browns (2-4 lbs) in an hour or so.  I would appreciate any comments or experience anyone might have.<<<<

The reproductive cycle, from the production of gonads thru the actual act of spawning, takes up a tremendous amount of energy for a trout.  In fact many trout will die within weeks of spawning.  The added stress of being caught and fought to the point of exhaustion probably increases that fishes chance of dieing within a few weeks.  Also that fish may not have enough left in it after the fight to finish spawning, therefore no prodigy will be spawned from that individual this year.  If ther is enough trout and enough prime spawning areas  in the stream to compensate for the fish which are not spawning because of being caught, then compensatory reproduction and survival of young should help to prevent  any noticible population level effects.  If, however, either there is so much fishing pressure, or so little adequate spawning areas for these fish then you could be having profound impacts on the population (or actually the future population) in this stream.  I would imagine that since fishing is allowed on this stream during the spawning period that the local biologists are not terribly worried about population level effects, either because the stream is heavilly stocked or there are adequate numbers of trout and spawning areas to compensate for the fish which are not able to complete spawning because of being caught.  it is worry some to me anyway that someone can catch "at least twenty fish in an hour".  This sounds to me like this spawning population is big time vunerable to anglers. But on the other hand if so many fish are available and this type of fishing has been common in th past then one could conclude that the population seems able to compensate for the increased mortality of spawning fish due to being caught.It is imporatnt to note that no two streams are alike and what may be fine on one stream could be devestating to the next.  Just my two cents anyway. Mark Arrigo SUNY College of Environmental Science and Forestry Syracuse, NY

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Question:

Please keep the politically correct crap in alt.idiocy anc not in rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.  Thanks

We couldn’t agree more! Sincerely, Noranda Mining Company Canada "Coming Soon to a Wilderness Area Near You!"

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Please keep the politically correct crap in alt.idiocy anc not in rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.  Thanks

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Pc idiocy? what pc idiocy? edwin

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Question:

I don’t know where you’re accustomed to fish, but it’s gonna be tough finding an uncrowded stream. If you want to catch fish, try Montauk State Park. It is a state-run trout park where you can fish in several miles of spring-fed streams heavily stocked with rainbows. There’s a flies-only section that can be somewhat challenging. Downstream from Montauk, the Current River is a popular float-trip destination, so the aluminum hatch is severe on weekends. But there are some sizable browns and rainbows in the upper sections of the river. Montauk has good camping and lodging facilities. Let me know what you do! Bob

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I don’t know where you’re accustomed to fish, but it’s gonna be tough finding an uncrowded stream. If you want to catch fish, try Montauk State Park.

        I just would like to know what state you are talking about!                                         Thank you,                      

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Missouri

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My brother-in-law and I are heading to the Rolla, MO area next weekend. We are interested in finding an uncrowded river with a healthy rainbow and brown trout population. Any suggestions?   We are also interested in any information concerning appropriate patterns for spring-time fishing in the Ozarks. Camp sites?

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