Question:

.. how hard is it to get a hook up in the national forest  ( my cousines father is 80 and in poor health) i dont want to run a generator and make a lot of noise

  None of the NF campgrounds have power, period. — Personal e-mail is the n7bsn but at amsat.org This posting address is a spam-trap and seldom read RV and Camping FAQ can be found at http://kendaco.telebyte.com/rlindber/RV

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Im going to go fly fishing in gallatin nat forest can anyone help with any first hand knowledge will be takeing a 30 foot class A   is a dingy necessary ? how hard is it to get a hook up ( my cousines father is 80 and in poor health) i dont want to run a generator and make a lot of noise thank you glenn   please send email to

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Im going to go fly fishing in gallatin nat forest (july3 to 16 aprox) can anyone help with any first hand knowledge will be takeing a 30 foot class A   is a dingy necessary ? how hard is it to get a hook up in the national forest  ( my cousines father is 80 and in poor health) i dont want to run a generator and make a lot of noise thank you glenn   please send email to

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Im going to go fly fishing in gallatin nat forest can anyone help with any first hand knowledge will be takeing a 30 foot class A   is a dingy necessary ? how hard is it to get a hook up ( my cousines father is 80 and in poor health) i dont want to run a generator and make a lot of noise

there who is familiar with the area. Just click on the URL above, it’ll take you there directly without having to "subscribe" to the newsgroup.

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Im going to go fly fishing in gallatin nat forest

  When? (I’d ask why, since I wouldn’t bother any more) can anyone help with any first hand knowledge

  Yes will be takeing a 30 foot class A   is a dingy necessary ?

  Where are you planning to stay? how hard is it to get a hook up ( my cousines father is 80 and in poor health) i dont want to run a generator and make a lot of noise

  The only place I am recalling with power is the KOA at Bozeman Hotsprings (which also gives you access to the springs pools) —

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Question:

I’m probably breaking some copywright law, but from the Lewiston ID Tribune but.. George Eugene (Billis) Gehrke, an avid fly fisherman, inventor and writer, passed away Sunday Dec. 8, 2002, at his Asotin home. He was 68. He was born July 28, 1934, in Toledo, Ohio. Graduating from Anthony Wayne High School in 1954, he was the first in his class to go directly into the Air Force Cadet Program. After his tour with the Air Force, he married the love of his life, Gladys Gray, Sept. 6, 1958, in Toledo. He often told others how lucky he was to have her in his life and how much he loved her. George owned a fly fishing company and manufactured its products since 1973. He is survived by his wife, Gladys, at the Asotin home; three sons, Robert of Panama City, Fla., Stuart of Trout Creek, Colo., and Gregory of Asotin; three daughters, Rosemary Tafoya of Asotin, Tracy Castaneda of Houston and Georgia Gehrke of Kapaa, Hawaii. He is also survived by a sister, Karol Ann of Archie, Mo.; brothers, Ernest Gehrke and John Billis of Ohio; uncle C.M. Kurczak of Baton Rouge, La.; several nieces and nephews; 11 grandchildren; and many, many friends. A memorial service will be held at 1 p.m. Thursday at the family home at Asotin. Vassar-Rawls Funeral Home of Lewiston is in charge of arrangements.

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Thanks Wayne, for passing that along. Rest in Peace, George. bruce h

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Question:

And then, if you’re up to it, note the material preceding the quote that begins "I think its extremely bad form…". That’s "it’s," not "its." "It’s" is a contraction of "it is." That’s what I meant and that’s what I wrote. I didn’t intend the possessive "its." Most well educated native speakers know the difference. If you’re going to quote me, please quote me correctly, including standard punctuation as it apppears in the original material. If I get it wrong then please feel free to correct me, with an appropriate "[sic]" notation.

Whatta pputz. Wolfgang

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That’s a great idea, George. This could be fun. I’m thinking of a series of stories describing in excruciating detail every cast, every stream pocket, and every one of the gourmet meals we enjoyed in four days.   :^) By the way, most of our fish were considerably larger than the fish I described out of that particular pool. If merely catching large fish was the objective we would have fished elsewhere. Bob

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – God, people?!  How much milage can you milk out of a 3 inch fish conclave? One more post and you gents can apply to the Guiness clan. GG

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God, people?!  How much milage can you milk out of a 3 inch fish conclave? One more post and you gents can apply to the Guiness clan. GG George, if you have nothing nice to say about the Eastern ‘Claves, then BLOW ME!

Come now (heh heh!).  I’ve caught plenty of 3" fish out west too…..

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God, people?!  How much milage can you milk out of a 3 inch fish conclave? One more post and you gents can apply to the Guiness clan. GG George, if you have nothing nice to say about the Eastern ‘Claves, then BLOW ME!

I think it’s extremely bad form for someone from the West to bad-mouth Eastern Claves. And vice versa.

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rw writes: I think it’s extremely bad form for someone from the West to bad-mouth Eastern Claves. And vice versa.

Yep.  Mainly because you get your litotes in a bunch.

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rw writes: I think it’s extremely bad form for someone from the West to bad-mouth Eastern Claves. And vice versa. Yep.  Mainly because you get your litotes in a bunch.

ROFLMAO!!!! Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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I think it’s extremely bad form for someone from the West to bad-mouth Eastern Claves. And vice versa.

I didn’t say anything about ‘claves.  I just told cranky old fart out West to …..you know. Op

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rw writes: I think it’s extremely bad form for someone from the West to bad-mouth Eastern Claves. And vice versa. Yep.  Mainly because you get your litotes in a bunch.

OK, Dave. You seem to think it’s just fine for an Easterner to bad-mouth Western Claves. Go at it.

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rw writes: rw writes: I think it’s extremely bad form for someone from the West to bad-mouth Eastern Claves. And vice versa. Yep.  Mainly because you get your litotes in a bunch. OK, Dave. You seem to think it’s just fine for an Easterner to bad-mouth Western Claves. Go at it.

Where did I say that, rw?  Never said it.  You continue to put words in my mouth.  Oh, I get it.  It’s a figure of speech and a form of rhetoric called "lies."  Look it up.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – rw writes: rw writes: I think it’s extremely bad form for someone from the West to bad-mouth Eastern Claves. And vice versa. Yep.  Mainly because you get your litotes in a bunch. OK, Dave. You seem to think it’s just fine for an Easterner to bad-mouth Western Claves. Go at it. Where did I say that, rw?  Never said it.  You continue to put words in my mouth.  Oh, I get it.  It’s a figure of speech and a form of rhetoric called "lies."  Look it up.

Dave, you need to go back and reread what you wrote. Willi

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rw writes: OK, Dave. You seem to think it’s just fine for an Easterner to bad-mouth Western Claves. Go at it. Where did I say that, rw?  Never said it.  You continue to put words in my mouth.  Oh, I get it.  It’s a figure of speech and a form of rhetoric called "lies."  Look it up.

You were (Must I say it?) whining that the Western Claves are not up to the camadraderie standards of the Eastern Claves. That came at a considerable surprise to me, and I suspect also to the several close friends I’ve made at the Western Claves. Before you get all teary-eyed about not having been able to fish with Warren at HF, let me remind you, once again, that Warren piloted the Gink boat, in which you wouldn’t have been caught dead.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – rw writes: rw writes: I think it’s extremely bad form for someone from the West to bad-mouth Eastern Claves. And vice versa. Yep.  Mainly because you get your litotes in a bunch. OK, Dave. You seem to think it’s just fine for an Easterner to bad-mouth Western Claves. Go at it. Where did I say that, rw?  Never said it.  You continue to put words in my mouth.  Oh, I get it.  It’s a figure of speech and a form of rhetoric called "lies."  Look it up. Dave, you need to go back and reread what you wrote. Willi

Read back up four posts before yours in the quoted material and see if you can figure out who decided the shit needed to be stirred one more time.  If you do it right, there will be no surprise.  And then, if you’re up to it, note the material preceding the quote that begins "I think its extremely bad form…". Well damn, it looks for all the world like a continuation of a long running tete a tete, don’t it?  But, if you take the time (and you can figure it out) you may also note that Stevie’s typical shithead comment did NOT come in response to anything Dave said (as he deliberately implied by his abuse of usenet convention), but instead followed a comment by Mark.  THEN, if you’re head hasn’t started throbbing too badly, you might want to follow what goes on here day in and day out, in which case you will possibly discover that there is a pattern here. Care to guess? Wolfgang

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  you might want to follow what goes on here day in and day out, in which case you will possibly discover that there is a pattern here. Care to guess?

That RW puts a bug up your butt and you jump on anything RW says? Willi

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 you might want to follow what goes on here day in and day out, in which case you will possibly discover that there is a pattern here. Care to guess? That RW puts a bug up your butt and you jump on anything RW says?

Bingo!

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And then, if you’re up to it, note the material preceding the quote that begins "I think its extremely bad form…".

That’s "it’s," not "its." "It’s" is a contraction of "it is." That’s what I meant and that’s what I wrote. I didn’t intend the possessive "its." Most well educated native speakers know the difference. If you’re going to quote me, please quote me correctly, including standard punctuation as it apppears in the original material. If I get it wrong then please feel free to correct me, with an appropriate "[sic]" notation.

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  You were (Must I say it?) whining that the Western Claves are not up to the camadraderie standards of the Eastern Claves. That came at a considerable surprise to me, and I suspect also to the several close friends I’ve made at the Western Claves. Before you get all teary-eyed about not having been able to fish with Warren at HF, let me remind you, once again, that Warren piloted the Gink boat, in which you wouldn’t have been caught dead.

I have to admit with pride R.W. that you certainly are a talented fly fisherman catching more fish than anyone.  Each day, you were "the man".  I had a lot of fun with you and wish to mention the Henry’s Fork Western Conclave was well worth the effort. It was a pleasure fishing with you r.w. Everyone should know Warren and you taught me how to fish a dropper with a bobber (WHOOPS! I mean) "indicator" which is something I’ve never done before.  However; now that we are home chasing Steelhead and other "critters of the deep" I’m back to the single nymphing with no indicators but the fly line.  Incidently, the steelhead fishing this year has been good.  Very good, in fact. Warren is an excellent guide.  He knows those rivers as well as me and probably better now.  Regardless, we have to do this again sometime r.w. Finally, Dave LaCourse?  You’re always welcome in the Gink Drift Boat, dead or alive.  There was a hatched buried at this Western Conclave and for that alone, I’m thankful.  There IS MORE to these get togethers than what meets the eye.  I had a great time. That’s for sure. GeorgeG.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You were (Must I say it?) whining that the Western Claves are not up to the camadraderie standards of the Eastern Claves. That came at a considerable surprise to me, and I suspect also to the several close friends I’ve made at the Western Claves. Before you get all teary-eyed about not having been able to fish with Warren at HF, let me remind you, once again, that Warren piloted the Gink boat, in which you wouldn’t have been caught dead. I have to admit with pride R.W. that you certainly are a talented fly fisherman catching more fish than anyone.  Each day, you were "the man". I had a lot of fun with you and wish to mention the Henry’s Fork Western Conclave was well worth the effort. It was a pleasure fishing with you r.w. Everyone should know Warren and you taught me how to fish a dropper with a bobber (WHOOPS! I mean) "indicator" which is something I’ve never done before.  However; now that we are home chasing Steelhead and other "critters of the deep" I’m back to the single nymphing with no indicators but the fly line.  Incidently, the steelhead fishing this year has been good.  Very good, in fact. Warren is an excellent guide.  He knows those rivers as well as me and probably better now.  Regardless, we have to do this again sometime r.w. Finally, Dave LaCourse?  You’re always welcome in the Gink Drift Boat, dead or alive.  There was a hatched (HATCHET! dang it.) buried at this Western

Conclave and for that – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – alone, I’m thankful.  There IS MORE to these get togethers than what meets the eye.  I had a great time. That’s for sure. GeorgeG.

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I have to admit with pride R.W. that you certainly are a talented fly fisherman catching more fish than anyone.  Each day, you were "the man".  

That’s total bullshit, but I will tell you one thing from my heart. You showed up at the HF Clave. I didn’t think you would, but you did. Another thing, George, is that you deserve a lot of credit for lending your drift boat to Warren. That was generous. It’s helped him a lot. Now please, George, don’t start acting like an asshole on ROFF. We don’t need it. We have plenty of that.

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  you might want to follow what goes on here day in and day out, in which case you will possibly discover that there is a pattern here. Care to guess? That RW puts a bug up your butt and you jump on anything RW says?  

Hm…..don’t understand?…..or just won’t deal with it?  Well, it hardly matters does it?   Ta ta. Wolfgang

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When last we met our fearsome threesome, they were standing on Owl Creek Bridge – oops, make that bridge no. 2 across Hazel Creek. Wolfie was doing his chimney routine and both Messrs. Miller and Siebeneich had discovered that the only person with drinking water was your obedient servant. I generously gave them a full Platypus bag and they drank copiously of its contents. Neither of them asked why I didn’t drink any of the same stuff and they didn’t say anything about its taste. Nevertheless, we continued the march up to the Sawdust Pile campground beyond the third bridge where we stopped again. I reconnoitered the stream for a few minutes and came back to see Jeffie and Wolfie talking to a girl. Aha! The pulchritudinous Lana, thought I, as I walked over to make her acquaintance. Of course, upon seeing me she quickly felt the need to retrace her steps back downstream. Obviously a girl of great self-discipline. We continued on to the Bone Valley campsite about 5.7 miles from the lake. There we established the Bone Valley Villa that we would use for the next two nights. We set up the camp. Miller had a one-man tent, and Wolfgang and I shared Wolfgang’s palatial abode. Then each of us went different directions – Jeffie making his way upstream on Hazel Creek, Wolfie headed downstream to work his way back up Hazel, while I began working my way up Bone Valley Creek. Caught a couple of small parr-marked rainbows out of one pool but nothing larger than about three inches. Wolfie met me a little ways up stream. He had a lot more success than I was having, and it was interesting just watching him cast. We fished a couple of hundred yards up Bone Valley before returning to the Villa in time for cocktails before dinner. More to come . . . — http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/

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God, people?!  How much milage can you milk out of a 3 inch fish conclave? One more post and you gents can apply to the Guiness clan. GG

Response:

God, people?!  How much milage can you milk out of a 3 inch fish conclave? One more post and you gents can apply to the Guiness clan. GG

George, if you have nothing nice to say about the Eastern ‘Claves, then BLOW ME! Op

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When last we met our fearsome threesome, they were standing on Owl Creek Bridge – oops, make that bridge no. 2 across Hazel Creek. Wolfie was doing his chimney routine and both Messrs. Miller and Siebeneich had discovered that the only person with drinking water was your obedient servant. I generously gave them a full Platypus bag and they drank copiously of its contents. Neither of them asked why I didn’t drink any of the same stuff and they didn’t say anything about its taste. Nevertheless, we continued the march up to the Sawdust Pile campground beyond the third bridge where we stopped again. I reconnoitered the stream for a few minutes and came back to see Jeffie and Wolfie talking to a girl. Aha! The pulchritudinous Lana, thought I, as I walked over to make her acquaintance. Of course, upon seeing me she quickly felt the need to retrace her steps back downstream. Obviously a girl of great self-discipline. We continued on to the Bone Valley campsite about 5.7 miles from the lake. There we established the Bone Valley Villa that we would use for the next two nights. We set up the camp. Miller had a one-man tent, and Wolfgang and I shared Wolfgang’s palatial abode. Then each of us went different directions – Jeffie making his way upstream on Hazel Creek, Wolfie headed downstream to work his way back up Hazel, while I began working my way up Bone Valley Creek. Caught a couple of small parr-marked rainbows out of one pool but nothing larger than about three inches. Wolfie met me a little ways up stream. He had a lot more success than I was having, and it was interesting just watching him cast. We fished a couple of hundred yards up Bone Valley before returning to the Villa in time for cocktails before dinner. More to come . . .

Hm…….well Bob, I think I still like my version better for raw excitement and suspense…….but I’ll grant you’ve got the edge in the verifiable historical detail department.       Carry on. Wolfgang who reserves the right to add color commentary from time to time.

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"Wolfgang Siebeneich" wrote Hm…….well Bob, I think I still like my version better for raw excitement and suspense…….but I’ll grant you’ve got the edge in the verifiable historical detail department.       Carry on. Wolfgang who reserves the right to add color commentary from time to time.

Damn. If I’d known I was committing "verifiable historical detail" I’d have thought twice. After all, the real sense of the trip is not in the verifiable historical detail. It’s the wisps of vapor drifting herpetologically – yes, dammit, herpetologically – through the trees. Bob

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Wolfgang Siebeneich" wrote Hm…….well Bob, I think I still like my version better for raw excitement and suspense…….but I’ll grant you’ve got the edge in the verifiable historical detail department.       Carry on. Wolfgang who reserves the right to add color commentary from time to time. Damn. If I’d known I was committing "verifiable historical detail" I’d have thought twice. After all, the real sense of the trip is not in the verifiable historical detail. It’s the wisps of vapor drifting herpetologically – yes, dammit, herpetologically – through the trees. Bob

Yes……but…..still, tis the information age and historians as yet will merely be another turgid footnote. Wolfgang thus is it ever for those who serve the muse…….lana…….where art thou?      :(

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Question:

I’m not always sour. Just spewing up some vomit. It will pass.

I know you are not souring, and it is good to spew.  I can’t believe what you have been through. (((((Hugs)))))) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Just a big ol’ kidney stone, yeah, you’ll be rid of it. OK. I had a big dry. Geez! Thought I was done with that stuff. I spent a lot of energy being *close* to my kids – moved right within short mortar range of where their mom is living. With all that, I can not even be sure I am doing the right thing – the "confict is bad" crowd would say that since the kids’ mom and I hate each other, I should pack up my troubles, move a thousand miles away and just send a check every week. Maybe they are right, but it is not the path I have chosen, and the path I have chosen is hard, sucks and is exhausting. And I am not even sure if it is the right thing. I understand. At the time of the moving decision, I thought that the only way she could come down from her insanity was to distance myself. I under-estimated insanity. You make your choices, live with them, and live with yourself. What else are you going to do? Just know what your choices are. Make those choices informed, and get on with your life. Else you’ll end up a tired old, shrivelled up cynical fart like me. pffffoooooot!!!! Thoughts with you Roy. Give your better half a big hug, and fall asleep in each others’ arms tonight. Have you ever noticed that two people in bed only need 3 arms? Indeed, one arm is always in the way.

Here are two more arms to crowd the situation. There is only so much you can do, and the kids’ mom is the kids’ mom. She is their problem, unfortunately. They’ll survive. I can’t protect them from the world. Much as I want to. The younger one will be taught to hate me. See responses eslewhere in this thread as to why. Peace, brother. Best – Fido (Soy un perro, pero ella es una hembra!) Did you ever try "tacos de macho"?

I

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 The younger one will, as usual, not want to talk to me. Been there, done that. I just kept calling at the right time, and they will talk if they want to. Later my oldest daughter would surprise me by calling on her own. You are there with them, Roy, believe it.

Yep. As far as Doc’s statements, not all are bitches, The sterile ones can be trusted, if they have a note from their doc. Otherwise, trust your own doc to take care of you. Very cynical. Ouchies. But realistic, I suppose.

Getting such things in writing strikes me as properly responsible. I am sad that you have one in your life. Actually, I have another in my life who is quite wonderful.  Whatcha kevtchin’ about, then?  Hey, a lot of folks don’t even have *that*.

Yeah, but it don’t fix the hole in the heart, does it ? Don’t go sour, have faith. I’m not always sour. Just spewing up some vomit. It will pass. Just a big ol’ kidney stone, yeah, you’ll be rid of it.

Indeed. I spent a lot of energy being *close* to my kids – moved right within short mortar range of where their mom is living. With all that, I can not even be sure I am doing the right thing – the "confict is bad" crowd would say that since the kids’ mom and I hate each other, I should pack up my troubles, move a thousand miles away and just send a check every week. Maybe they are right, but it is not the path I have chosen, and the path I have chosen is hard, sucks and is exhausting. And I am not even sure if it is the right thing.

Well, I am. It is. You are the *father* of the kids. That is important, no matter what the granola crowd bleats. It’s tough. But, you are there for your kids, and they do see that. They will understand what that means. You make your choices, live with them, and live with yourself. What else are you going to do? Just know what your choices are. Make those choices informed, and get on with your life. Else you’ll end up a tired old, shrivelled up cynical fart like me.

<g Thoughts with you Roy. Give your better half a big hug, and fall asleep in each others’ arms tonight. There is only so much you can do, and the kids’ mom is the kids’ mom. She is their problem, unfortunately.

Truth. Peace, brother. Best – Fido (Soy un perro, pero ella es una hembra!) Roy

Andre — " The noblest achievement of the imagination is to make time run some other way, and terminate in beauty and forgivness "                                          David Gelernter, " 1939 "

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Let’s see. I’m sure I left something out. …. Starting Spring Break, the ex starting coaching the girl to say that I am poking her ass while wiping her bottom. I pointed out that I do not handle potty. So, by summer she wants to know why my gf is poking the daughter’s ass. Except that the girl wipes herself.

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so, yeah, Dr Web can rant and rave all he friggin wants. I, for one, will not criticize him. Sometimes there is just more than a grain of truth in the rantings of the mad.

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Hi Roy, so, when some woman posts and say she want ex s2bx to move. Or she plans to leave and take the kids, or, when the guy posts and says he has been asked to leave, I know exactly what is going on. Child abuse, kidnapping, extortion. "I am responsible for my own happiness." – sheesh! new age pop crap!

Not all is fair, and even in general when one speaks of being responsible for your own happiness etc. , I don’t believe they don’t mean that there aren’t very negative forces that are in play. As far as a kind word….my heart is with you and hope that you can be comfortable and proud about yourself and your attempts to be a part of your childrens life. As far as Doc’s statements, not all are bitches, I am sad that you have one in your life.  Don’t go sour, have faith. Glos

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As far as a kind word….my heart is with you and hope that you can be comfortable and proud about yourself and your attempts to be a part of your childrens life.

I appreciate the kind words. Guess it’s time to make my weekly call to the kids. The younger one will, as usual, not wantto talk to me. As far as Doc’s statements, not all are bitches,

The sterile ones can be trusted, if they have a note from their doc. Otherwise, trust your own doc to take care of you. I am sad that you have one in your life.

Actually, I have another in my life who is quite wonderful. Don’t go sour, have faith.

I’m not always sour. Just spewing up some vomit. It will pass. Glos

Roy

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Anytime Roy, you know that!!  ((Hugs)) Daisy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – for me to ask for a kind word. Roy

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for me to ask for a kind word.

You and your kids don’t deserve what she’s doing to you, and if you’d just open up and tell us the details, like her name, city, and address, we’d send out a posse to kick her witchy little ass. —– Kathryn Litherland                 | People make their own history               Latin American Studies Program     | but they do not make it under       University of Illinois, Chicago    | circumstances of their own choosing                                    |      –Karl Marx, _The 18th Brumaire_

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for me to ask for a kind word. Roy

XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXO I am sorry she is being a bitch about you seeing the kids.  I could make a voodoo doll with her name on it? Loev, Poopie Pants PS I hope there is a Karma Fairy and your ex gets her just reward

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 The younger one will, as usual, not want to talk to me.

Been there, done that. I just kept calling at the right time, and they will talk if they want to. Later my oldest daughter would surprise me by calling on her own. You are there with them, Roy, believe it. As far as Doc’s statements, not all are bitches, The sterile ones can be trusted, if they have a note from their doc. Otherwise, trust your own doc to take care of you.

Very cynical. Ouchies. But realistic, I suppose. I am sad that you have one in your life. Actually, I have another in my life who is quite wonderful.

 Whatcha kevtchin’ about, then?  Hey, a lot of folks don’t even have *that*. Don’t go sour, have faith. I’m not always sour. Just spewing up some vomit. It will pass.

Just a big ol’ kidney stone, yeah, you’ll be rid of it. I spent a lot of energy being *close* to my kids – moved right within short mortar range of where their mom is living. With all that, I can not even be sure I am doing the right thing – the "confict is bad" crowd would say that since the kids’ mom and I hate each other, I should pack up my troubles, move a thousand miles away and just send a check every week. Maybe they are right, but it is not the path I have chosen, and the path I have chosen is hard, sucks and is exhausting. And I am not even sure if it is the right thing. You make your choices, live with them, and live with yourself. What else are you going to do? Just know what your choices are. Make those choices informed, and get on with your life. Else you’ll end up a tired old, shrivelled up cynical fart like me. Thoughts with you Roy. Give your better half a big hug, and fall asleep in each others’ arms tonight. There is only so much you can do, and the kids’ mom is the kids’ mom. She is their problem, unfortunately. Peace, brother. Best – Fido (Soy un perro, pero ella es una hembra!) Roy

Before you buy.

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"may 99 – now-ex threatens to kill kids." ummm… Roy…does the court know about this??? Donna Before you buy.

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I could make a voodoo doll with her name on it?

No need, Poopster. http://www.virtual-design.com/cgi-bin/Voodoo.pl Have fun! Belle

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"may 99 – now-ex threatens to kill kids." ummm… Roy…does the court know about this???

Fucking court. Someone ought to mail a copy of Roy’s post to the Supreme Court Justice in Georgia or where ever that case was heard. Like they’ll do anything about it, anyway, Scumbags. What outrage I feel. Send a copy to the nitwits at the National Conference of Family Court Justices, too, those morons. No effing recourse when your family is torn apart by these weenies. They could fix it if they wanted to, *but they don’t*. Fuck ‘em. I’m going to bed. Roy, lighten up. I’ll be mad for both of us.   Donna Before you buy.

Before you buy.

Response:

"may 99 – now-ex threatens to kill kids." ummm… Roy…does the court know about this??? Donna

Yes. Didn’t matter. I moved out – four blocks away. I smoked pot. I went and got a girlfriend. The court did not give me time to say "I was in the home all day, every day. I handled 1st grade home school." Your call. What would judge Judy do?

Response:

I’m not always sour. Just spewing up some vomit. It will pass. Just a big ol’ kidney stone, yeah, you’ll be rid of it.

OK. I had a big dry. Geez! Thought I was done with that stuff. I spent a lot of energy being *close* to my kids – moved right within short mortar range of where their mom is living. With all that, I can not even be sure I am doing the right thing – the "confict is bad" crowd would say that since the kids’ mom and I hate each other, I should pack up my troubles, move a thousand miles away and just send a check every week. Maybe they are right, but it is not the path I have chosen, and the path I have chosen is hard, sucks and is exhausting. And I am not even sure if it is the right thing.

I understand. At the time of the moving decision, I thought that the only way she could come down from her insanity was to distance myself. I under-estimated insanity. You make your choices, live with them, and live with yourself. What else are you going to do? Just know what your choices are. Make those choices informed, and get on with your life. Else you’ll end up a tired old, shrivelled up cynical fart like me.

pffffoooooot!!!! Thoughts with you Roy. Give your better half a big hug, and fall asleep in each others’ arms tonight.

Have you ever noticed that two people in bed only need 3 arms? Indeed, one arm is always in the way. There is only so much you can do, and the kids’ mom is the kids’ mom. She is their problem, unfortunately.

They’ll survive. I can’t protect them from the world. Much as I want to. The younger one will be taught to hate me. See responses eslewhere in this thread as to why. Peace, brother. Best – Fido (Soy un perro, pero ella es una hembra!)

Did you ever try "tacos de macho"?

Response:

Roy, you’re a helluva guy. And I like you, too.

Yeah. I know. My step-dad even told me so just before he died. My gf from 27 years ago remembered me and gave up one hell of a lot because she also remembered that I am a nice guy. I keep forgetting.

Response:

for me to ask for a kind word. You and your kids don’t deserve what she’s doing to you, and if you’d just open up and tell us the details, like her name, city, and address, we’d send out a posse to kick her witchy little ass.

Tempting. I do believe that abusive people need to have their behavior "outed". Just can’t bring myself to send her a letter outlining her behavior in this matter – with cc to every family member.

Response:

XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXO I am sorry she is being a bitch about you seeing the kids.  I could make a voodoo doll with her name on it?

The current fashion is "cultural competence". So, I was thinking about something from the dungeons of Spain, circa 1520. PS I hope there is a Karma Fairy and your ex gets her just reward

Nope. No magical retribution. Well, maybe … I do know that she is angry because she lost a truly marvelous f**k and she burns every nite for that. I can see how she looks me over in our brief child-exchange encounters.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – for me to ask for a kind word. What’s troubling you ? Maybe we can help. Everyone can use a kind word. So, talk, and we’ll listen. Is that a start ? Roy Andre 2 kids now ages 4 and 11 may 98 – moved to apt 4 blocks away. may-dec – almost no contact with kids – a couple of movies with the older kid, some one-on-one soccer at the high school dec 98 – signed visitation agreement, property partition, and all other terms with now-ex xmas holidays 98 – now-ex wants to take the kids to see her parents. I say OK. She doesn’t go, but wipes out my visit time. Xmas eve 98 – now-ex tells kids I am coming over. Does not tell me. jan 99 – now-ex tears up all agreements. gets lawyer. jan-may 99 – regular visits established – ex comes up with something to interfere, so that there is no continuous 24 hour visit spring break 99 – now-ex pull same stunt as xmas holidays 98 may 99 – now-ex threatens to kill kids. memorial weekend 99 – The kid and I "break the rules" and go for a weekend of fishing at the coast. I inform the now-ex by phone. I hang up as she screams and cries. june 99 – court date. "At last .. some legal protection." Wrong! My first testimony was to ask for verification of 4 week summer visit. Judge reduces to 2 weeks. I say "but your honor …" Judge reduces to 5 days and only with older kid. End of hearing. july 99 – I move 3 states away. Take the older kid for 5 days. fly back for 3-day visits in sept and oct 99 Tgiving 99 – kids visit for 1 week. My best friend (illegal from Mexico) give me overnite place to stay and helps with pick-up and airport delivery. Later that day his wife is repeatedly called by now-ex and threatened with legal action. Xmas 99 – one week with kids. Xmas 99 – I begin asking for copies of immunization info. Mar 99 – administrative hearing to file final papers. My lawyer says my presence not needed. Now-ex appears – All rights to participate in decisions on education, medical, etc are cross out in the decree – probably because I smoked pot. Also, she can give me 30 days notice before visit and I have to be tested. Spring break 00 – one week with kids Summer 00 – after several requests to ex and school, still no immunization info. Ex demands to come here and keep kids 3 days/wk during summer visit. 8/1/00 Letter to ex. I will be in town sometime next month on business, but don’t know exact days. Can I visit for weekend without meeting 30 day notice requirements. Also, school does not get out until tues before Xmas. This reduces xmas visit to 6 days. Can they stay for entire holidays? 9/1/00 After no response, I call. She says not to tell kids that I asked to visit in the fall. Says they can stay longer at xmas but she keeps them 3-4 days/wk 9/5/00 f**k her. I make the airline reservations – no she does not come. So, andre, I’m tired. The woman needs one good royal f**king. Any guy here want to help me out?

Well, not in *that* way. I had quite enough of that with my ex, and I am aware that I got off ( relatively ) lightly, as we didn’t make any kids. I shudder when I think of having to be tied to that *itch for the next eighteen years plus, especially in the way that the courts screw fathers. Unfortunately, I have no good ideas as to what you can do. Aside from what I occasionally hear here about finding a father’s rights friendly lawyer, and doing all that one can with the help of such a lawyer to get back was was stolen. At what ages can they state that they might want to be more with you ? I do know that one is likely a decade from this. But, the other may be within a year to three. Does it help in any way that I state that her behavior is pure EVIL, both to you and to the kids ? Someone posted a good article about modern fatherhood here, in the last day or two. It was written by Cathy Young, whose book I own. God, this is surely a time when I wish that I had some power, some ability to affect matters in such a way that you and your kids could have the relationship that you are working so hard to make. No matter what, do take good and proper care of yourself, and do what you can do, in order to relieve some of the fatigue. Folks, try to tell me that a court would do that to a mom. It’s not equal out there, and some of you ladies might find that this is a good reason why some of your men won’t commit to a new relationship. What can you ladies do about that ? Organise, and lend the fathers the support that you got from all the men who marched to get women their rights. You owe them, and you owe the kids. Do it. Now. Andre — " The noblest achievement of the imagination is to make time run some other way, and terminate in beauty and forgivness "                                          David Gelernter, " 1939 "

Response:

for me to ask for a kind word.

Roy, you’re a helluva guy. And I like you, too. Best – Fido Roy

Before you buy.

Response:

so, when some woman posts and say she want ex s2bx to move. Or she plans to leave and take the kids, or, when the guy posts and says he has been asked to leave, I know exactly what is going on. Child abuse, kidnapping, extortion. "I am responsible for my own happiness." – sheesh! new age pop crap!

Response:

for me to ask for a kind word. Roy

Response:

for me to ask for a kind word. Roy

Brenda Before you buy.

Response:

for me to ask for a kind word.

What’s troubling you ? Maybe we can help. Everyone can use a kind word. So, talk, and we’ll listen. Is that a start ? Roy

Andre — " The noblest achievement of the imagination is to make time run some other way, and terminate in beauty and forgivness "                                          David Gelernter, " 1939 "

Response:

for me to ask for a kind word. What’s troubling you ? Maybe we can help. Everyone can use a kind word. So, talk, and we’ll listen. Is that a start ? Roy Andre

2 kids now ages 4 and 11 may 98 – moved to apt 4 blocks away. may-dec – almost no contact with kids – a couple of movies with the older kid, some one-on-one soccer at the high school dec 98 – signed visitation agreement, property partition, and all other terms with now-ex xmas holidays 98 – now-ex wants to take the kids to see her parents. I say OK. She doesn’t go, but wipes out my visit time. Xmas eve 98 – now-ex tells kids I am coming over. Does not tell me. jan 99 – now-ex tears up all agreements. gets lawyer. jan-may 99 – regular visits established – ex comes up with something to interfere, so that there is no continuous 24 hour visit spring break 99 – now-ex pull same stunt as xmas holidays 98 may 99 – now-ex threatens to kill kids. memorial weekend 99 – The kid and I "break the rules" and go for a weekend of fishing at the coast. I inform the now-ex by phone. I hang up as she screams and cries. june 99 – court date. "At last .. some legal protection." Wrong! My first testimony was to ask for verification of 4 week summer visit. Judge reduces to 2 weeks. I say "but your honor …" Judge reduces to 5 days and only with older kid. End of hearing. july 99 – I move 3 states away. Take the older kid for 5 days. fly back for 3-day visits in sept and oct 99 Tgiving 99 – kids visit for 1 week. My best friend (illegal from Mexico) give me overnite place to stay and helps with pick-up and airport delivery. Later that day his wife is repeatedly called by now-ex and threatened with legal action. Xmas 99 – one week with kids. Xmas 99 – I begin asking for copies of immunization info. Mar 99 – administrative hearing to file final papers. My lawyer says my presence not needed. Now-ex appears – All rights to participate in decisions on education, medical, etc are cross out in the decree – probably because I smoked pot. Also, she can give me 30 days notice before visit and I have to be tested. Spring break 00 – one week with kids Summer 00 – after several requests to ex and school, still no immunization info. Ex demands to come here and keep kids 3 days/wk during summer visit. 8/1/00 Letter to ex. I will be in town sometime next month on business, but don’t know exact days. Can I visit for weekend without meeting 30 day notice requirements. Also, school does not get out until tues before Xmas. This reduces xmas visit to 6 days. Can they stay for entire holidays? 9/1/00 After no response, I call. She says not to tell kids that I asked to visit in the fall. Says they can stay longer at xmas but she keeps them 3-4 days/wk 9/5/00 f**k her. I make the airline reservations – no she does not come. So, andre, I’m tired. The woman needs one good royal f**king. Any guy here want to help me out?

Response:

Question:

I have used both the drying patch on my vest and a ripple foam pin-on fly holder for keeping wet flys after changeouts astream.

Great review snipped. I have used one of these now for a year and agree with the above review. There are two sizes of Fly Trap, I think both same price. I have the smaller one. Cheers Peter

Response:

I attached the Fly Trap to my mesh vest and it works admirably.

And a contrary review…I attached a fly trap to my vest and the lid came off at the hinge in the middle of the Hiwassee River. Will never use one again. Wayne Knight (remove nospam to respond via mail) Expert in the creation of  wind knots and tailing loops.

Response:

Wayne Knight: <<And a contrary review…I attached a fly trap to my vest and the lid came off at the hinge in the middle of the Hiwassee River. Will never use one again. As did mine after about 3 days of fishing.  I threw the damn thing in the trash.  Good idea.  Bad execution. Dave L.

Response:

0] : Wayne Knight: : <<And a contrary review…I attached a fly trap to my vest and the lid came off : at the hinge in the middle of the Hiwassee River. Will never use one again. : As did mine after about 3 days of fishing.  I threw the damn : thing in the trash.  Good idea.  Bad execution. : Dave L. Much to be preferred is Mike Connor’s two cent version of the same. It’s a 35mm film can with a bunch of holes punched in it. A cord passes thru a hole in the lid and is attached to the can. The other end of cord is attached to vest. Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories  (remove x’s from email if not      Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971   a spammer) Phone: (650)-857-5491              

Response:

Wayne Knight: <<And a contrary review…I attached a fly trap to my vest and the lid came off at the hinge in the middle of the Hiwassee River. Will never use one again. As did mine after about 3 days of fishing.  I threw the damn thing in the trash.  Good idea.  Bad execution. Dave L.

hmmm, maybe I have one of the three good ones, I’ve had mine for 3 seasons now and haven’t had a speck of trouble with it. I hardly use a regular fly box any more, I only tie a few flies at a time, usually the night before I go fishing and they go right in the Fly Trap, between those and the ones left in it from the last time I went, there are always enough to get me thru a day. John Before you buy.

Response:

Wayne Knight: <<And a contrary review…I attached a fly trap to my vest and the lid came off at the hinge in the middle of the Hiwassee River. Will never use one again. As did mine after about 3 days of fishing.  I threw the damn thing in the trash.  Good idea.  Bad execution.

My wife and I both have one.  They’ve worked well for us for the past couple years.  I’ll have a look at ours to see if the hinge pins seem to be working loose. — Bob Jarvis Mail address hacked to foil spammers!

Response:

I have used both the drying patch on my vest and a ripple foam pin-on fly holder for keeping wet flys after changeouts astream.  I have found the pin-on gets in the way of everything and both the pin-on and drying patch have lost flys before they could be returned to the fly box.  I recently acquired a Fly Trap from Ezflyfish and gave it a try last week.  This is an interesting device as it consists of ripple foam on a fold-out shelf.  The little black box attaches to the vest, shirt, or jacket with an interesting spring clip which holds firmly and positively without damaging the material.  It is easy to attach and detach for moving between outer garments.  The front of the box drops down and sticks out at a 90 degree angle like a shelf.  It is easy to pick flys off of the ripple foam shelf or add flys to the shelf.  Vents along the sides expedite drying.  Flys closed up in the trap are secure from loss and dry effectively.  The drawbacks are the additional bulk and weight (minimal but minimalist would scrutinize every gadget)and the cost (about $20).  Certainly a ventilated film canister would work also but I think not as effectively as the Fly Trap.  A canister bottom could be dropped and lost with its cargo.  The Fly Trap could also be loaded with a dozen favorite flys and carried alone as a small stream box very effeciently.  Dropping the shelf down and looking down at a glance shows you your flys without holding the box in your hand.  Come to think about it, a vest could be made up with several of these arranged to suit the wearer.  A customizable vest so to speak. The black, non-glare finish helps small stream stealth and its overall light weight and compactness favors small stream fishing as well.  I attached the Fly Trap to my mesh vest and it works admirably. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

I will be in Belize next month (Ambergris Caye) and will be fishing for bones, tarpon, and whatever else I can catch. I have never done this type of fishing. I need suggestions on flies (and colors), line, leaders, etc. I will have an 8 and 10 weight rod with me. If you have some helpful info, please let me know. Thanks. LT

Response:

I will be in Belize next month (Ambergris Caye) and will be fishing for bones, tarpon, and whatever else I can catch. I have never done this type of fishing. I need suggestions on flies (and colors), line, leaders, etc. I will have an 8 and 10 weight rod with me. If you have some helpful info, please let me know. Thanks. LT

Hi Lt, You are going to the right place. There are a lot of good flats guides in the town of San Pedro on Ambergris Cay. You have the right size rods too. They do some wading for bones there and some from boats. I would have a weight forward floating salt water #8 line for the bones. The bones can be spooky so you might need a 15′ total leader to 0x. Find the stiffest leaders you can get and matching tippet. On turtle grass flats I use eye-less snapping shrimp patterns in tan. brown, olive and pink. On the sand flats I use Charlie type pattern with bead chain eyes in root beer, gold, pearl and pink. Take some small tan and olive crabs for bones too. You can catch permit on the same stuff. For tarpon I would get the SA/Mastery WF10F Tarpon Floating line and the SA/Mastery WF10S Tarpon slow sinking braided mono core line. This is the destination where those two lines can be used and I can’t say which one would really always be the best choice. I would go for the sinker for all around and the floater for the most fun. Put a 4′ butt section of  30# clear Mason on with an Albright knot so it won’t slip off that braided mono core. Put a perfection loop on the end. After this it can be done a lot of ways, but I would have some 20# Mason for tippet (why fool around on you first fish) and some 60# for shook tippet and let you guide rig it for you. I would get some sparse 3/0 tarpon flies in Cockroach, Red/Black, Grizzly/Orange, Yellow/Orange, Red/White and Purple with a little flash. Get a ‘cuda’ fly or two. You might find some bones somewhere around the island, but the best bet is a all a report when you return. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

Response:

I can’t fault advice below, except I personally have had poor luck using crab patterns for bones (never fished for permit). Charlies work great (best colors for me have been chartreuse or tan). Clouser minnows have been hot in BZ (at least in Placencia where I go) past couple of years. Sizes 2 and 4 are good; sparsely tied (I had one that was sparse to begin with, and got better after a lizardfish chewed off 2/3 of the bucktail). Chartreuse is best (with a white belly of course), and tan, brown and olive worked for me too. I’m told Clousers are good for permit too (larger, sizes 1 or 2) but as I say I haven’t tried. I’ve used the Bonefish Special for real shallow water or over grass with success, but I want to try the snapping shrimp pattern that Bill mentioned. Got to get tying! Eric – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I will be in Belize next month (Ambergris Caye) and will be fishing for bones, tarpon, and whatever else I can catch. I have never done this type of fishing. I need suggestions on flies (and colors), line, leaders, etc. I will have an 8 and 10 weight rod with me. If you have some helpful info, please let me know. Thanks. LT Hi Lt, You are going to the right place. There are a lot of good flats guides in the town of San Pedro on Ambergris Cay. You have the right size rods too. They do some wading for bones there and some from boats. I would have a weight forward floating salt water #8 line for the bones. The bones can be spooky so you might need a 15′ total leader to 0x. Find the stiffest leaders you can get and matching tippet. On turtle grass flats I use eye-less snapping shrimp patterns in tan. brown, olive and pink. On the sand flats I use Charlie type pattern with bead chain eyes in root beer, gold, pearl and pink. Take some small tan and olive crabs for bones too. You can catch permit on the same stuff. For tarpon I would get the SA/Mastery WF10F Tarpon Floating line and the SA/Mastery WF10S Tarpon slow sinking braided mono core line. This is the destination where those two lines can be used and I can’t say which one would really always be the best choice. I would go for the sinker for all around and the floater for the most fun. Put a 4′ butt section of  30# clear Mason on with an Albright knot so it won’t slip off that braided mono core. Put a perfection loop on the end. After this it can be done a lot of ways, but I would have some 20# Mason for tippet (why fool around on you first fish) and some 60# for shook tippet and let you guide rig it for you. I would get some sparse 3/0 tarpon flies in Cockroach, Red/Black, Grizzly/Orange, Yellow/Orange, Red/White and Purple with a little flash. Get a ‘cuda’ fly or two. You might find some bones somewhere around the island, but the best bet is a all a report when you return. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

Response:

I can’t fault advice below, except I personally have had poor luck using crab patterns for bones (never fished for permit).

Hi Eric, We use real small tan Raghead crabs that where develope by Jan Isley in Ascencion Bay for permit. They are about the size of a dime. We catch small permit (3 to 6#) on them too. We use them in larger sizesfor larger permit and in olive/green too.  I also have been fishing Placencia and really love the area. If you get a chance tell me more about your adventures in that area. Who are you fishing with?  I have some chartreuse snapping shrimp called ‘Yucatan Specials’, but have not tried them. Thanks for you info. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

Response:

Question:

I didn’t even mention her cloaca.

But you thought about it.  You have a one-track mind. azure

Response:

I don’t think anyone "grilled" Julia for anything – she ASKED for what people here thought. The only vaguely rude post I saw at all was Eric Cordian’s.

What did you find rude about my post?   I didn’t even mention her cloaca. — Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"

Response:

Well I have been drinking more water lately, but even without it I’d still think this situation could have been handled better.  It seems to have calmed down though, despite this attempt of yours to get me going again. Rats.  It didn’t work.

LOLOLOL!  And it’s a good thing too…posting cuts into my bathroom time! You’ve no idea the strain a mere 2 gallons of water puts on my poor abused innards! azure

Ravenna, having a much needed laugh —       Kristen Kohlbecker    And I would choose to be with you                             But you can make decisions too       A Tyger and a Lady    And you can have this heart to break

Response:

x-no-archive: yes Holy Macheral andy, that was easy!  :-)         – Panther (glad to see ole andy back)

Groannnnnnnn Bwahahahahahhaaaaa /tigerbunny rolls on the floor, drowning in tears of laughter I thought I was gonna bust a gut laughing over the image of averti as Foghorn Leghorn in green suede shoes ("That’s a JOKE, son") oh, you people really are too much! tigerbunny

Response:

Yoah heah! yoah heah!  Let the bells ring out and the banners fly! Its too good to be true! but yoah heah!!!! Hey Tigerbunny! great to see your smiling face! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – x-no-archive: yes Holy Macheral andy, that was easy!  :-)         – Panther (glad to see ole andy back) Groannnnnnnn Bwahahahahahhaaaaa /tigerbunny rolls on the floor, drowning in tears of laughter I thought I was gonna bust a gut laughing over the image of averti as Foghorn Leghorn in green suede shoes ("That’s a JOKE, son") oh, you people really are too much! tigerbunny

Response:

Well I have been drinking more water lately, but even without it I’d still think this situation could have been handled better.  It seems to have calmed down though, despite this attempt of yours to get me going again.

Rats.  It didn’t work. azure

Response:

x-no archive: yes Hi Panther; Ok I’m back, with poster’s remorse. Moving on, to stage 3(?) Flame yourself. I feel Averti is giving "andy" far too much credit, 51%? Well perhaps that is true 49% of the time, on a very good day. And just who the hell does this "andy" think he is, anyway? All that fuss’n and a stomp’n. Snagged in the back I lack an attack. Well, that nasty remose, is over now. andy (Trout Mac Finnagan) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – x-no-archive: yes Come back lil Sheba.

Question:

 I didn’t know that estrogin was a prerequiste for affirming my masculinity. It’s "estrogen". CM

Hey Ho CM:   DAMN !!! I *hate* it when I do that <VBG.  BTW, does *anyone* on this newsgroup have anything even *remotely* similar to a sense of humor.   Stevie.Pee

Response:

 I didn’t know that estrogin was a prerequiste for affirming my masculinity.  

It’s "estrogen". CM

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  I didn’t know that estrogin was a prerequiste for affirming my masculinity. It’s "estrogen". CM Hey Ho CM:   DAMN !!! I *hate* it when I do that <VBG.  BTW, does *anyone* on this newsgroup have anything even *remotely* similar to a sense of humor. Stevie.Pee

It sure doesn’t seem so Steve! Maybe the ice hasn’t melted all the way where they live?? Keep it wet… — Tight lines and sharp hooks, Capt. Mark Poirier

Response:

The argument runs that women are physically incapable of casting the distances, fighting the fights, and wading the rivers that men do. In a nutshell, supposedly women, because they’re women,  can’t catch the same fish as men.

Howdy, I don’t think men have any advantage physically over women when it comes to fishing. There are not as many women fishing as men, but I know some gals that will out fish half of my male customers. I think it is skill, experience and desire that will separate anglers. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

Response:

Maybe if you had something funny to say we would have a sense of humor. L&R

Response:

Steve,   DAMN !!! I *hate* it when I do that <VBG.  BTW, does *anyone* on   this newsgroup have anything even *remotely* similar to a sense of   humor. I’ve been here for a while and it is a rare event.  For a while there, I thought I detected a trend.  A sense of humor was reserved for every third Tuesday of the month if the month had a "z" in it.  However, in second thought, I decided it was a false alarm and there was no trend. Richard  - Alice4Mac 2.4.4 E QWK Eval:27Jan96

Response:

Bill,   I don’t think men have any advantage physically over women when it   comes to fishing. There are not as many women fishing as men, but I   know some gals that will out fish half of my male customers. I think   it is skill, experience and desire that will separate anglers. I fish with a female and I out-fish her everytime out.  It’s my boat and she fishes from the back seat . Richard  - Alice4Mac 2.4.4 E QWK Eval:27Jan96

Response:

Since when did fishing become a REAL sport anyway.You either sit on your fat ass in a boat or you casually walk a stream,drinking beer,stopping to rest or shit whenever you please.No time requirement, no 300lb linebackers hitting you at 25 mph,no  100mph hockey pucks flying at you.Dont get me wrong I love fishin as much as anyone (and so does my wife),but its no sport,its a relaxing hobby. Good fishin to all!!

Response:

i love to fish with women.  they bring better snacks than beef jerkey and corn nuts.  and when the bass ain’t biting…. fishpro 17

Response:

  Since when did fishing become a REAL sport anyway.  You either sit on   your fat ass in a boat or you casually walk a stream, drinking   beer, stopping to rest or shit whenever you please.  No time   requirement, no 300lb linebackers hitting you at 25 mph, no 100mph   hockey pucks flying at you.  Don’t get me wrong I love fishin as much as   anyone (and so does my wife), but its no sport, it’s a relaxing hobby. So, how long were you in the coma? Richard  - Alice4Mac 2.4.4 E QWK Eval:27Jan96

Response:

L,   I think Bass’n Gals is a wonderful group. If men can have fishing   clubs why can’t women?  We have this club so we can all go fishing and   have fun.  Not to compete against men.  Or to say, "Women are better   fisherman than men". If you’re getting something out of it, have at it.  Don’t get suckered into trying to explain your point of view to people who can’t understand what you’re saying. Richard  - Alice4Mac 2.4.4 E QWK Eval:27Jan96

Response:

You mean to tell me that we’ve sunken so low in self esteem that we’ve decited that "casting a rod all day" is hard work?  That women can’t fight a 23lb bass?  Maybe some anorexic, chainsmoking 80lb woman couldn’t do it, but any healthy person can fish all day and not form any new muscle tissue.  Give me a break.  So we can cast 5′ further, or maybe 10 becuase we have bigger torsos, so what… if the woman has spent as much time fishing as the man, I’m sure she can eaily keep up and quite possibly exceed a male counterpart.  I think you’re comparing a non-fishing woman to a fishing man.  Which is like saying, "The average Klingon warrior is 5x stronger than the average human." Apples and oranges, Kilingon Warriors to Human Warriors… now there’s a comparison.  I’d be willing to bet that any of the women fishing on the B.A.S.S. trail could outfish most of this newsgroup with broken thumbs.  :’)

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Don’t hold back Tank, tell us what you think. Be careful about your anti-pest tactics. They sound like a PETA commercial on the bad manners of anglers. Good fishing, Matthew – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You mean to tell me that we’ve sunken so low in self esteem that we’ve decited that "casting a rod all day" is hard work?  That women can’t fight a 23lb bass?  Maybe some anorexic, chainsmoking 80lb woman couldn’t do it, but any healthy person can fish all day and not form any new muscle tissue.  Give me a break.  So we can cast 5′ further, or maybe 10 becuase we have bigger torsos, so what… if the woman has spent as much time fishing as the man, I’m sure she can eaily keep up and quite possibly exceed a male counterpart.  I think you’re comparing a non-fishing woman to a fishing man.  Which is like saying, "The average Klingon warrior is 5x stronger than the average human." Apples and oranges, Kilingon Warriors to Human Warriors… now there’s a comparison.  I’d be willing to bet that any of the women fishing on the B.A.S.S. trail could outfish most of this newsgroup with broken thumbs.  :’)

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The argument runs that women are physically incapable of casting the distances, fighting the fights, and wading the rivers that men do. In a nutshell, supposedly women, because they’re women,  can’t catch the same fish as men.

Ever notice that REAL MEN do not find it neccessary to subordinate Women? I guess maybe the’re so secure in their masculinity it’s not important to them. On the other hand, the real WIMPS have to make sure that Women don’t threaten them in any way. Especially in a traditionaly male sport like Fishing. Hmmmm! I didn’t know that Testosterone was a prerequisite for fishing.

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The argument runs that women are physically incapable of casting the distances, fighting the fights, and wading the rivers that men do. In a nutshell, supposedly women, because they’re women,  can’t catch the same fish as men. Ever notice that REAL MEN do not find it neccessary to subordinate Women? I guess maybe the’re so secure in their masculinity it’s not important to them. On the other hand, the real WIMPS have to make sure that Women don’t threaten them in any way. Especially in a traditionaly male sport like Fishing. Hmmmm! I didn’t know that Testosterone was a prerequisite for fishing.

I think you are taking this out of context as I recall the original author was saying that there should not be a separate division for woman because he also disagreed with this notion. Obviously someone is interested in two divisions probably more for the promotional benefit than actual merits.

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The argument runs that women are physically incapable of casting the distances, fighting the fights, and wading the rivers that men do. In a nutshell, supposedly women, because they’re women,  can’t catch the same fish as men. Ever notice that REAL MEN do not find it neccessary to subordinate Women? I guess maybe the’re so secure in their masculinity it’s not important to them. On the other hand, the real WIMPS have to make sure that Women don’t threaten them in any way. Especially in a traditionaly male sport like Fishing. Hmmmm! I didn’t know that Testosterone was a prerequisite for fishing.

Hey Ho:   To answer your question…No I didn’t.  Did you ever notice that REAL WOMEN don’t worry about the "wimps".  Hmmmm!  I didn’t know that estrogin was a prerequiste for affirming my masculinity.  Here’s your sign. Stevie.Pee P.S. "Woman" is *not* a proper noun and thus should not be capitalized.

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it sounds like a bunch of whimps and several women need to get a life they can enjoy without telling everybody how great they think they are just because they are either female stupid or maybe both. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The argument runs that women are physically incapable of casting the distances, fighting the fights, and wading the rivers that men do. In a nutshell, supposedly women, because they’re women,  can’t catch the same fish as men. Ever notice that REAL MEN do not find it neccessary to subordinate Women? I guess maybe the’re so secure in their masculinity it’s not important to them. On the other hand, the real WIMPS have to make sure that Women don’t threaten them in any way. Especially in a traditionaly male sport like Fishing. Hmmmm! I didn’t know that Testosterone was a prerequisite for fishing. Hey Ho:   To answer your question…No I didn’t.  Did you ever notice that REAL WOMEN don’t worry about the "wimps".  Hmmmm!  I didn’t know that estrogin was a prerequiste for affirming my masculinity.  Here’s your sign. Stevie.Pee P.S. "Woman" is *not* a proper noun and thus should not be capitalized.

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Question:

In my opinion sweet corn works fine. Put several pieces on the hook and the line.

Grasshoppers work great and you can usualy catch them at the pond. Gordon Gordon Couger – 624 Cheyenne, Stillwater, OK 74075     I do not speak for my employer

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In my opinion sweet corn works fine. Put several pieces on the hook and the line.

I’ve heard here about corn and chicken liver and most recently about cheese and hog brains.  Here’s my dilemma:  the local market didn’t have hog brains or even chicken liver so I bought a few bucks worth of beef liver.  I’ve also got some turkey bologna that I would rather the catfish ate (I thought it was beef bologna!).  For the next week and a half I’ll be studying my butt off for some major exams, but after that I’d like to get the hell out of the city and get me some catfish (pike or carp would be nice  too, I just want to get some big-ass fish!).  Anyway, how can I ‘cure’ these imitation meats so that the fish’ll go for ‘em?  I really don’t want this stuff rotting in my apartment (I don’t have any good smell-proof containers other than a milk container).  Do you have any good formulas for this stuff?  Much thanks in advance.                                                  - IMG Gordon Couger – 624 Cheyenne, Stillwater, OK 74075    I do not speak for my employer

I’m not employed and speak for myself (at times)

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My wife and I plus our best friends will be camping this weekend at our favorite little private campground near ClearLake.  The campground has a pond containing catfish and a few bass.  The water should be high, and usually this time of the year it is filled with crawdads.  Last May we fished the pond, the crawdads continually stole our baits (nightcrawlers). I’m sure the catfish prey on this critters, but fishing with a crawdad when they are hundreds in the pond probably won’t entice the cats.  What would be the best way to approach the catfish–continue with the nightcrawlers, chicken liver, spray WD-40 on the crawdads?  Thanks in advance!

Try both worms and crawdads. I use a long handled minnow net to catch the crawdads. The trick that worked for me was free spooling with no weight. If the catfish feel resistance, they drop it. Cast as far as you can and leave the bail open to free spool. Wait ’til he takes it for a-ways, (southern literary license), and then set the hook. Experiment with how long you should wait. If they swallow it, set the hook sooner, if they drop it, wait a few more (10?) seconds. If they are biting slow, put a bell on your rod tip and relax. If the crawdads are getting your worms before the catfish, then there are no catfish in that area/depth. They will surely chow down on the crawdads. One other option. If there are really big catfish and bream (perch) in the pond, use a really small hook and catch the small bream. Then put the bream under a cork (away from brush.), and especially at night!…and wait for the dinner bell. High water is great for catfish. They will forage in shallow water/newly flooded area. Also, this time of year they may be spawning and in shallow anyway. Tim

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In my opinion sweet corn works fine. Put several pieces on the hook and the line. Good luck Peter

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I know the best bait in the world for catfish.  If you can locate a place where they slaughter chickens, get yourself a gallon of chicken guts soaked in its blood.  I use a one gallon paint can because the lid fits so tight and believe me you won’t want that lid to come off until you want it to.  The best cat fishing I’ve done is in the deepest part of the lake.  Take a good size hook, maybe an inch space between the shank and point. Tie a piece of line about 1 foot long directly to the eye.  By the eye also attach a thin piece of cloth 6" or so long.  Take a handful of the slimy bloddy mess in the can and hold it to the hook as best as you can and use the strip of cloth to help hold the guts to the hook, just wrap the cloth around and around the hook, but not too tight.  Then use the piece of line to wrap around everything.  Cast it carefully, cause you can through it off easily.  The catfish could care less with piece of cloth on his meal.  The whole time it is on the bottom (tight line fishing) it is oozing blood.  You will catch the biggest fish you have ever caught.  You just pay a price having to handle and smell that stuff. Another great bait is live perch, small ones hooked just under the top fin.  You use nylon line which is tied to branches overhanging the water.  The little perch is swimming just under the water.  Do this just be fore dark.  Catfish come close to shore as well as to the surface at night to feed.  The will find the perch and 50% of the time hook themselves, especially if you have tied to a real springy branch sucu as a willow.  Check your lines early in the morning.  Turtles will come and eat the catfish.  Its pretty exciting to see one of your lines attached to a limb bouncing up and down as you approach it.  If you don’t have many limbs, use cane poles stuck in the mud or even better into a rock facing that goes down into the water.  Its a sign of DEEP water and a great place to catch catfish.    Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My wife and I plus our best friends will be camping this weekend at our favorite little private campground near ClearLake.  The campground has a pond containing catfish and a few bass.  The water should be high, and usually this time of the year it is filled with crawdads.  Last May we fished the pond, the crawdads continually stole our baits (nightcrawlers). I’m sure the catfish prey on this critters, but fishing with a crawdad when they are hundreds in the pond probably won’t entice the cats.  What would be the best way to approach the catfish–continue with the nightcrawlers, chicken liver, spray WD-40 on the crawdads?  Thanks in advance! Try both worms and crawdads. I use a long handled minnow net to catch the crawdads. The trick that worked for me was free spooling with no weight. If the catfish feel resistance, they drop it. Cast as far as you can and leave the bail open to free spool. Wait ’til he takes it for a-ways, (southern literary license), and then set the hook. Experiment with how long you should wait. If they swallow it, set the hook sooner, if they drop it, wait a few more (10?) seconds. If they are biting slow, put a bell on your rod tip and relax. If the crawdads are getting your worms before the catfish, then there are no catfish in that area/depth. They will surely chow down on the crawdads. One other option. If there are really big catfish and bream (perch) in the pond, use a really small hook and catch the small bream. Then put the bream under a cork (away from brush.), and especially at night!…and wait for the dinner bell. High water is great for catfish. They will forage in shallow water/newly flooded area. Also, this time of year they may be spawning and in shallow anyway. Tim

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You can try doughballs. — –Betelgeuse

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My wife and I plus our best friends will be camping this weekend at our favorite little private campground near ClearLake.  The campground has a pond containing catfish and a few bass.  The water should be high, and usually this time of the year it is filled with crawdads.  Last May we fished the pond, the crawdads continually stole our baits (nightcrawlers). I’m sure the catfish prey on this critters, but fishing with a crawdad when they are hundreds in the pond probably won’t entice the cats.  What would be the best way to approach the catfish–continue with the nightcrawlers, chicken liver, spray WD-40 on the crawdads?  Thanks in advance!

Response:

My wife and I plus our best friends will be camping this weekend at our favorite little private campground near ClearLake.  The campground has a pond containing catfish and a few bass.  The water should be high, and usually this time of the year it is filled with crawdads.  Last May we fished the pond, the crawdads continually stole our baits (nightcrawlers). I’m sure the catfish prey on this critters, but fishing with a crawdad when they are hundreds in the pond probably won’t entice the cats.  What would be the best way to approach the catfish–continue with the nightcrawlers, chicken liver, spray WD-40 on the crawdads?  Thanks in advance!

Ken, if they are feeding on crawdads, then I would use crawdads.  Sort of "Matching the Hatch" for catfish.  (Excuse me all Fly-Fisher-persons ;^)) The trick is making your crawdad look vulnerable, (an easy meal)  I would try fishing the crawdad suspended 6" off the bottom with a bobber.  It would look like a crawdad that can’t get away. Good Luck! — Hunting and Fishing are the only sports that are even fun to FAIL at… as long as you don’t fail too often!  ;^)

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Question:

  I want to know if there are any good flyfishing at good prices in Montana, Idaho, Orgen, and my state Washington.

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HI. i was just going to leave a message to the whole newsgroug about Montana Fly  Fishing at my Dude Ranch Hawley Mountain  near McLeod, Mt on the Boulder River. You can call 406-932-5791 or E-Mail me your address and I ll send you a Brochure. See my Message under GONE FISHING TO MONTANA. BBlewett

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