Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there such a thing?  Boyfriend says there is.  For the past two weeks or so he has been fishing with his paw under the edge of one of the kitchen rugs.  Not all the time, but enough. I turn the edge over to see if there is a beetle or something;  there never is. I put the edge down again.  He lifts it and says look, there it goes, you missed it.  I’m not sure whether to believe him, what do all you kitties think?  Has there ever been anything called an under-the-kitchen-rug greebling? KFC, from her retirement snoozyplace next the fire says he’s just being silly, there are no greeblings at all.  At least, none that would disturb her sleep. Tweed

Just for fun, drag something juuuuust until it disappears underneath. He’ll go nuts

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there such a thing?  Boyfriend says there is.  For the past two weeks or so he has been fishing with his paw under the edge of one of the kitchen rugs.  Not all the time, but enough. I turn the edge over to see if there is a beetle or something; there never is. I put the edge down again.  He lifts it and says look, there it goes, you missed it.  I’m not sure whether to believe him, what do all you kitties think?  Has there ever been anything called an under-the-kitchen-rug greebling? KFC, from her retirement snoozyplace next the fire says he’s just being silly, there are no greeblings at all.  At least, none that would disturb her sleep. Tweed Just for fun, drag something juuuuust until it disappears underneath. He’ll go nuts

Evil, Karen, eeevill (snicker) — Cliologist, Philanthropologist, Prothonotary Wibbler, Paleoconservative, Surface Warrior Squid

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there such a thing?  Boyfriend says there is.  For the past two weeks or so he has been fishing with his paw under the edge of one of the kitchen rugs.  Not all the time, but enough. I turn the edge over to see if there is a beetle or something;  there never is. I put the edge down again.  He lifts it and says look, there it goes, you missed it.  I’m not sure whether to believe him, what do all you kitties think?  Has there ever been anything called an under-the-kitchen-rug greebling? KFC, from her retirement snoozyplace next the fire says he’s just being silly, there are no greeblings at all.  At least, none that would disturb her sleep. Tweed

Auntie Tweed, Thare are Greeblings EVERYWHERE!! Dey go wherever dey wantses, bekause dey are tiny enuf to fit. Mama and I hunt dem all de time, but thare are ownly too of us, and millyuns of Greeblings. Unka Pan is no help, he kan’t see well enuf or move fast enuf to hunt, ennymore.  Boyfriend is trying his hardest to protekt yoo from da rug greeblings. For tiny liddle kreechers, greeblings are meen and danjerus. Nina and Francesca.

Response:

Is there such a thing?  Boyfriend says there is.  For the past two weeks or so he has been fishing with his paw under the edge of one of the kitchen rugs.  Not all the time, but enough. I turn the edge over to see if there is a beetle or something;  there never is. I put the edge down again.  He lifts it and says look, there it goes, you missed it.  I’m not sure whether to believe him, what do all you kitties think?  Has there ever been anything called an under-the-kitchen-rug greebling? KFC, from her retirement snoozyplace next the fire says he’s just being silly, there are no greeblings at all.  At least, none that would disturb her sleep. Tweed

Dear Miss Christina, We are the greebling experts!  You can trust us kitties.  You can’t trust your poor weak hoomin eyes.  Believe me, they can get anywhere. They change shape, and get flat, or long or whatever they need to do to hide from you.  But we can see ‘em, hear ‘em and smell ‘em.  Please don’t take any risks with those horrid greeblings just waiting around to take over the house– or fly down your throat when you’re sleeping! Eeeww!  I get all creepy just thinking about it.  Believe me, I know it’s not yours or my mommy’s faults that you can’t see them. You just have to relax and let us do our jobs.  We’ll take care of everything. Love, Stinky Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com

Response:

Is there such a thing?  Boyfriend says there is.  For the past two weeks or so he has been fishing with his paw under the edge of one of the kitchen rugs.  Not all the time, but enough. I turn the edge over to see if there is a beetle or something;  there never is. I put the edge down again.  He lifts it and says look, there it goes, you missed it.  I’m not sure whether to believe him, what do all you kitties think?  Has there ever been anything called an under-the-kitchen-rug greebling? KFC, from her retirement snoozyplace next the fire says he’s just being silly, there are no greeblings at all.  At least, none that would disturb her sleep. Tweed

Boyfriend is right. We have rug greeblings in the kitchen and the family room.  Sometimes I have to move the entire rug back to get to them. Meowmy will come home and find the kitchen rug upside down and in the dining room, but she doesn’t find greeblings. That’s because I ate them all. Boyfriend is doing the right thing. Samuel R. Thunderpaws The Great Greebling Hunter

Response:

Is there such a thing?  Boyfriend says there is.  For the past two weeks or so he has been fishing with his paw under the edge of one of the kitchen rugs.  Not all the time, but enough. I turn the edge over to see if there is a beetle or something;  there never is. I put the edge down again.  He lifts it and says look, there it goes, you missed it.  I’m not sure whether to believe him, what do all you kitties think?  Has there ever been anything called an under-the-kitchen-rug greebling? KFC, from her retirement snoozyplace next the fire says he’s just being silly, there are no greeblings at all.  At least, none that would disturb her sleep.

When Shmogg was still interested in Greeblings he had a unique way of dealing with the ones under the kitchen rug – he *surfed* on them! This is one of the first stories I ever wrote for RPCA back in April 1998: SURFING CAT Shmoggleberry lived in a pokey 2 bedroom flat for most of his life, and so took great advantage of all the extra space to run around in when we moved to a large house. The main bedroom, lounge, dining room and kitchen are all reasonably lined up, so Shmoggleberry could run full speed from one to the other. He can really get up some speed! (Since the flat was small, he couldn’t really get a decent run without having to make some very sharp, speed reducing, turns) The Kitchen has a lino floor, and since it was winter when I moved, I put some small mats down in the kitchen so I didn’t get cold feet. He very quickly discovered that if he got some speed up and then jumped onto the mat at the start of the kitchen, his momentum would allow him to "surf" across the lino, using the mat as a board. At one point, he got up to much speed, he discovered a law of thermodynamics: once you are moving, its hard to stop! THUNK! head first into the far wall of the kitchen. He let out a rather surprised "OW!" (as you would) and stopped to give himself a good grooming – which he always does when he’s done something stupid. I thought he’d learnt his lesson by getting a fairly good smack in the head. Alas, at some hideous hour of the morning, we were woken to the sounds of boomba, boomba, boomba (sound of cat hurtling through empty house, approaching speed of light), sweeeeeeeeeee….. (sound of mat sliding on lino) ….THUNK (sound of insane fluffy projectile being suddenly stopped by unforgiving wall). We had just managed to doze off, when – Boomba boomba boomba, sweee…, thunk. (just enough time to go back to sleep) boomba, boomba, boomba, sweeee…, thunk. (enough time..) boomba, boomba… etc. I caught him at it later the next day – he came screaming out of the bedroom, landed on the mat, and then put his head down so the wall would collect him on the flat bit between his ears. Almost like he was a charging bull. I guess it caused him the least amount of pain. Although I know El Moggo is probably the most cunning & conniving creature I’ve met, I also know he can be remarkably thick. Yowie

Response:

<SNIP Oh yes! I believe kitchen rug greeblings are closely related to newspaper greeblings, very sneaky little devils which take an expert cat to deal with them. — Adrian (Owned by Snoopy & Bagheera) A house is not a home, without a cat.

OH MY!!!! I’d compleetly foregotten about newspaper greeblings.  But, from the state of the last newspaper I brought in the house & left on the couch when I went to work…. I think the furballs got them all. —

Mathew Butler to 2 kittens: Chablis & Muscat En Vino Veritas

Response:

Isn’t it funny how cats will always groom themselves nonchalantly whenever they do something stupid, my dogs just used to look embarrassed,but a cat makes sure you ‘know’ he did it on purpose That was a funny story Yowie, Wilson always chased the mop when he was little, it was especially funny when he chased the polish mop, he would skid everywhere.   Jean.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there such a thing?  Boyfriend says there is.  For the past two weeks or so he has been fishing with his paw under the edge of one of the kitchen rugs.  Not all the time, but enough. I turn the edge over to see if there is a beetle or something;  there never is. I put the edge down again.  He lifts it and says look, there it goes, you missed it.  I’m not sure whether to believe him, what do all you kitties think?  Has there ever been anything called an under-the-kitchen-rug greebling? KFC, from her retirement snoozyplace next the fire says he’s just being silly, there are no greeblings at all.  At least, none that would disturb her sleep. When Shmogg was still interested in Greeblings he had a unique way of dealing with the ones under the kitchen rug – he *surfed* on them! This is one of the first stories I ever wrote for RPCA back in April 1998: SURFING CAT Shmoggleberry lived in a pokey 2 bedroom flat for most of his life, and so took great advantage of all the extra space to run around in when we moved to a large house. The main bedroom, lounge, dining room and kitchen are all reasonably lined up, so Shmoggleberry could run full speed from one to the other. He can really get up some speed! (Since the flat was small, he couldn’t really get a decent run without having to make some very sharp, speed reducing, turns) The Kitchen has a lino floor, and since it was winter when I moved, I put some small mats down in the kitchen so I didn’t get cold feet. He very quickly discovered that if he got some speed up and then jumped onto the mat at the start of the kitchen, his momentum would allow him to "surf" across the lino, using the mat as a board. At one point, he got up to much speed, he discovered a law of thermodynamics: once you are moving, its hard to stop! THUNK! head first into the far wall of the kitchen. He let out a rather surprised "OW!" (as you would) and stopped to give himself a good grooming – which he always does when he’s done something stupid. I thought he’d learnt his lesson by getting a fairly good smack in the head. Alas, at some hideous hour of the morning, we were woken to the sounds of boomba, boomba, boomba (sound of cat hurtling through empty house, approaching speed of light), sweeeeeeeeeee….. (sound of mat sliding on lino) ….THUNK (sound of insane fluffy projectile being suddenly stopped by unforgiving wall). We had just managed to doze off, when – Boomba boomba boomba, sweee…, thunk. (just enough time to go back to sleep) boomba, boomba, boomba, sweeee…, thunk. (enough time..) boomba, boomba… etc. I caught him at it later the next day – he came screaming out of the bedroom, landed on the mat, and then put his head down so the wall would collect him on the flat bit between his ears. Almost like he was a charging bull. I guess it caused him the least amount of pain. Although I know El Moggo is probably the most cunning & conniving creature I’ve met, I also know he can be remarkably thick. Yowie

Response:

Thanks to the dedicated work of my 2 intrepid FHP (Feline House Patrol) members, my house is greebling free.  Every so often they try to get in… But my cats hear them (we hoomans think it’s ‘house settling’ noises) & instantly go on patrol, checking all corners, window leges & especially the bathroom (greeblings LOVE to sneak in through the bathtub drain)… So far, the house remains surrounded by greedblings, but they can’t get in. They are such good guards for being so young. They will be formidable when they are grown. It is good to feel safe from evil greeblings.

Ah now I see!  They’d be under the floorboards in my place though, and anywhere in the house when the gat needs to go the toilet, he does a loud howl and runs around like a maniac then does his business, odd creature!

Response:

Is there such a thing?  Boyfriend says there is.  For the past two weeks or so he has been fishing with his paw under the edge of one of the kitchen rugs.  Not all the time, but enough. I turn the edge over to see if there is a beetle or something;  there never is. I put the edge down again.  He lifts it and says look, there it goes, you missed it.  I’m not sure whether to believe him, what do all you kitties think?  Has there ever been anything called an under-the- kitchen-rug greebling? KFC, from her retirement snoozyplace next the fire says he’s just being silly, there are no greeblings at all.  At least, none that would disturb her sleep. Tweed

Oh yes! I believe kitchen rug greeblings are closely related to newspaper greeblings, very sneaky little devils which take an expert cat to deal with them. — Adrian (Owned by Snoopy & Bagheera) A house is not a home, without a cat.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there such a thing?  Boyfriend says there is.  For the past two weeks or so he has been fishing with his paw under the edge of one of the kitchen rugs.  Not all the time, but enough. I turn the edge over to see if there is a beetle or something;  there never is. I put the edge down again.  He lifts it and says look, there it goes, you missed it.  I’m not sure whether to believe him, what do all you kitties think?  Has there ever been anything called an under-the-kitchen-rug greebling? KFC, from her retirement snoozyplace next the fire says he’s just being silly, there are no greeblings at all.  At least, none that would disturb her sleep. Tweed Auntie Tweed, Thare are Greeblings EVERYWHERE!! Dey go wherever dey wantses, bekause dey are tiny enuf to fit. Mama and I hunt dem all de time, but thare are ownly too of us, and millyuns of Greeblings. Unka Pan is no help, he kan’t see well enuf or move fast enuf to hunt, ennymore. Boyfriend is trying his hardest to protekt yoo from da rug greeblings. For tiny liddle kreechers, greeblings are meen and danjerus. Nina and Francesca.

L O Nina & Francesca I fink Kitty FC got too old to bother about der greeblings in der house, it is FULL of dem, but most are under der rug in der kitchen.  I try to show meowmie but she carnt see dem. I sez to Kitty, look, I tell you wot..you go outside and fite the big black cat to save me der job, and I will get all the greeblings in der house to save *you* der job.  She sed its a deal.  I doan no why she larfed when she settled back down in front of der fire after she fort The Enemy and he ran away.  She say you will be busier dan me.  Wot she mean? I avnt made der rong choice, av I?  I fink I hear greeblings under dat rug again. Kitty is fast asleep, funny noizes coming from her nose.  Sort of zzzz. pfff. zzzzzzzzzz. ppppffffff. Myself, I have to stay up all der nite to get der greeblings. <scratches head Boyfriend

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I fink Kitty FC got too old to bother about der greeblings in der house, it is FULL of dem, but most are under der rug in der kitchen.  I try to show meowmie but she carnt see dem. I sez to Kitty, look, I tell you wot..you go outside and fite the big black cat to save me der job, and I will get all the greeblings in der house to save *you* der job.  She sed its a deal.  I doan no why she larfed when she settled back down in front of der fire after she fort The Enemy and he ran away.  She say you will be busier dan me.  Wot she mean? I avnt made der rong choice, av I?  I fink I hear greeblings under dat rug again. Kitty is fast asleep, funny noizes coming from her nose.  Sort of zzzz. pfff. zzzzzzzzzz. ppppffffff. Myself, I have to stay up all der nite to get der greeblings. <scratches head Boyfriend

Boyfriend, You are the dearest little fellow.  I send you special skritches from across the sea. Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com

Response:

Is there such a thing?  

Is there ever! They belong to the family of under-the-rug greeblings, and Mere has been showing me how lacking Frank and Nikki have been lately in hunting them. It seems that they have let the greeblings multiply enormously, though Nikki does hunt them half-heartedly every now and then. However, Mere is on their case, and is taking care that they (the greeblings) keep on their toes. — Marina, Frank, Nikki, and introducing: Mere! marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/ and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What are greeblings? Greeblings are those pesky animals that the cats chase when we can’t see anything there. One example is the under-the-rug greeblings, which apparently my place is full of, and which Mere chases with abandonment. She burrows under the rugs, bunny-kicks them and bites them to kill the greeblings under there. She also chases the bed greeblings when I make the bed, and makes sure I am protected against these foul beings. — Marina, Frank, Nikki, and introducing: Mere! marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/ and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki

Yes, and that’s why Nina was making it virtually impossible to put clean sheets on my bed, yesterday. =o) She was having a grand Greebling hunt. Melissa

Response:

Thanks to the dedicated work of my 2 intrepid FHP (Feline House Patrol) members, my house is greebling free.  Every so often they try to get in… But my cats hear them (we hoomans think it’s ‘house settling’ noises) & instantly go on patrol, checking all corners, window leges & especially the bathroom (greeblings LOVE to sneak in through the bathtub drain)… So far, the house remains surrounded by greedblings, but they can’t get in. What are greeblings? Marcia (UK)

If I ever see one, I’ll let you know.  (Actually, only cats can see these mysterious creatures).   MLB

Response:

What are greeblings?

Greeblings are those pesky animals that the cats chase when we can’t see anything there. One example is the under-the-rug greeblings, which apparently my place is full of, and which Mere chases with abandonment. She burrows under the rugs, bunny-kicks them and bites them to kill the greeblings under there. She also chases the bed greeblings when I make the bed, and makes sure I am protected against these foul beings. — Marina, Frank, Nikki, and introducing: Mere! marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/ and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki

Response:

Thanks to the dedicated work of my 2 intrepid FHP (Feline House Patrol) members, my house is greebling free.  Every so often they try to get in… But my cats hear them (we hoomans think it’s ‘house settling’ noises) & instantly go on patrol, checking all corners, window leges & especially the bathroom (greeblings LOVE to sneak in through the bathtub drain)… So far, the house remains surrounded by greedblings, but they can’t get in.

What are greeblings? Marcia (UK)

Response:

Thanks to the dedicated work of my 2 intrepid FHP (Feline House Patrol) members, my house is greebling free.  Every so often they try to get in… But my cats hear them (we hoomans think it’s ‘house settling’ noises) & instantly go on patrol, checking all corners, window leges & especially the bathroom (greeblings LOVE to sneak in through the bathtub drain)… So far, the house remains surrounded by greedblings, but they can’t get in.

They are such good guards for being so young. They will be formidable when they are grown. It is good to feel safe from evil greeblings. — CATherine

Response:

Thanks to the dedicated work of my 2 intrepid FHP (Feline House Patrol) members, my house is greebling free.  Every so often they try to get in… But my cats hear them (we hoomans think it’s ‘house settling’ noises) & instantly go on patrol, checking all corners, window leges & especially the bathroom (greeblings LOVE to sneak in through the bathtub drain)… So far, the house remains surrounded by greedblings, but they can’t get in. — Mathew Butler to 2 kittens: Chablis & Muscat En Vino Veritas

Response:

Is there such a thing?  Boyfriend says there is.  For the past two weeks or so he has been fishing with his paw under the edge of one of the kitchen rugs.  Not all the time, but enough. I turn the edge over to see if there is a beetle or something;  there never is. I put the edge down again.  He lifts it and says look, there it goes, you missed it.  I’m not sure whether to believe him, what do all you kitties think?  Has there ever been anything called an under-the-kitchen-rug greebling? KFC, from her retirement snoozyplace next the fire says he’s just being silly, there are no greeblings at all.  At least, none that would disturb her sleep. Tweed

Response:

Question:

If the Guardians win in court, or if the government settles, the number of

cows a rancher is allowed to graze with his permit is cut. That hands the Guardians a double victory: Not only does the land get a breather, but the rancher has to pay much more to feed his displaced cows on private land. Interesting concept that "free market"  Sounds like the ranchers prefer a Socialist type system.

Response:

I was listening to a recent NPR program, discussing the problems of depopulation in rural communities back east…

Most of the rural counties in Oregon are loosing population, and it was several years ago when I heard a statistic that 90% of the rural landowners were age 60 or greater. I don’t know how true the 90% stat is, but it does appear rural america is dwindling for *many* reasons. Though I consider myself an environmentalists, and often see the need for action *now*, I also recognize that there are more powerful long-term changes occuring in the US such as rural depopulation, and often think that there is an opportunity for environmentalists and landowners to accept this trend (rather than force it), and see ways to make it positive. Case in point – I could spend lots of time going after grazing issues, or I could spend lots of time understanding which landowners are wanting to sell off (because their kids aren’t following in their footsteps) and seeing how to move that land into less intensive uses. Thomas Gilg

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was listening to a recent NPR program, discussing the problems of depopulation in rural communities back east… Most of the rural counties in Oregon are loosing population, and it was several years ago when I heard a statistic that 90% of the rural landowners were age 60 or greater. I don’t know how true the 90% stat is, but it does appear rural america is dwindling for *many* reasons. Though I consider myself an environmentalists, and often see the need for action *now*, I also recognize that there are more powerful long-term changes occuring in the US such as rural depopulation, and often think that there is an opportunity for environmentalists and landowners to accept this trend (rather than force it), and see ways to make it positive. Case in point – I could spend lots of time going after grazing issues, or I could spend lots of time understanding which landowners are wanting to sell off (because their kids aren’t following in their footsteps) and seeing how to move that land into less intensive uses. Thomas Gilg

Also what has to be remembered is that the ranchers who won’t be able to afford higher grazing fees will be the smaller family operations. The bigger ones will be able to absorb any increased costs. By most accounts grazing is a problem ( a huge problem in some instances) along the riparian corridors out west but it is also problematic if the solution only brings about the demise of family ranches to the benefit of the huge multi-national conglomerate run outfits. No one said this was going to be easy. George C.

Response:

 What our outdoor wildlife inventories need is the total removal of all livestock that steal their food and habitat. Why? Because wildlife is more valuable to a state’s economy as it is to the Federal Economy. Allowing grazing on Federal (PUBLIC) lands to individual ranchers is stupid economics. George G.

Response:

|

| I was listening to a recent NPR program, discussing the problems of | depopulation in rural communities back east… | | Most of the rural counties in Oregon are loosing population, and it was | several years ago when I heard a statistic that 90% of the rural landowners | were age 60 or greater. I don’t know how true the 90% stat is, but it does | appear rural america is dwindling for *many* reasons. Though I consider | myself an environmentalists, and often see the need for action *now*, I | also recognize that there are more powerful long-term changes occuring | in the US such as rural depopulation, and often think that there is an | opportunity for environmentalists and landowners to accept this trend | (rather than force it), and see ways to make it positive. Case in point – | I could spend lots of time going after grazing issues, or I could spend | lots of time understanding which landowners are wanting to sell off | (because their kids aren’t following in their footsteps) and seeing how to | move that land into less intensive uses. | | Thomas Gilg | | | | | Also what has to be remembered is that the ranchers who won’t be able to afford | higher grazing fees will be the smaller family operations. The bigger ones will | be able to absorb any increased costs. By most accounts grazing is a problem ( a | huge problem in some instances) along the riparian corridors out west but it is | also problematic if the solution only brings about the demise of family ranches | to the benefit of the huge multi-national conglomerate run outfits. | | No one said this was going to be easy. | George C. | That may be true, too. The reason my grandfather specialized, was to devote more acres to one crop, to be able to absorb the fixed overheads. But even he had just 500 acres. My father struggled to make money. I refused to take over – it was clear at an early age that it simply COULD NOT be profitable, because of/despite the (socialist) policies of the Common Agricultural Policy, dreamed up by the EU. These same policies were actually intended to protect the family farm. In reality they destroyed it. Q. How far do we go, to protect the family farm? The French have split their farms between 2 (or more) sons for generations. Now they have 100-acre farms that are mere subsistence farming. On an environmental tack – I would prefer to see people grazing farm land that is already farm land & lacking farmers, rather than grazing the more fragile environments often (but not always) found on federal lands. Take the money farm managers pay and use it to encourage farmers to take up the land that has been converted from it’s natural state, into My family were TENANT farmers. After my father & his brother retired, the farm was bought from the landlord & is now actually profitable. Q. HOW – by finding a niche. The current farmers don’t try to compete with the large managed farms. They run an organic farm – even the wool is organic. They don’t need help competing, because they specialisze. I suspect the family-ranchers here in the SW USA will have to also find a niche.

Response:

Even if they are, that just means more money needs to be spent on enforcing the current restrictions, not coming up with more.

And sadly the folks breaking the law are the same ones against any additional government enforcement of the law. Thomas Gilg

Response:

| I never met a cattleman who stole America’s grass lands and graze | that I liked.  You’re right. Why should a nobody lbother? | | In this country, you are entitled to your own opinion…. even when it’s an | incorrect one. Maybe if you’d actually get out there and meet a real | cattleman, you’d change your tune. | | George– | This is Cindy… Brian’s wife writing now.  I cannot believe your comments | regarding ranchers/cattlemen ripping off the consumer.  I grew up in Eastern | Montana on a small ranch.  My father received 70-90 cents per pound for his | calves sold every fall.  This fall the price given to cattlemen for their | calves is still 70-75 cents per pound.  Not much of a raise over the past 20 | years.  Your accusations against the ranchers holds no water.  You are | basically talking out of your rear-end.  If you would do some research and | cared about your country, you would see that the family ranches are unable | to support their families. I grew up on a farm in England – we raised beef without ANY cheap grazing. We found a way – we rented permanent pasture, that was atop historic monuments (and couldn’t be ploughed), we housed steers in the old milking parlour during the Winter (after a milking herd ceased to be profitable), but we NEVER had grazing land subsidised by the taxpayer. We made a living growing beef. Any help we can give the ranchers in the use of | public lands is money put back into our economy and assistance to families | who are trying to make a living providing food for your table.  And just in | case you are a vegetarian, don’t forget those ranchers who graze cattle on | public land can then use the land they own to grow grain and barley for your | bread.  Don’t be such a twit. | | Boy, George… did you ever step in it!! When Cindy reads over my shoulder | and kicks me off the keyboard…. well, you get the drift. | — | Tight Lines! | Brian D. Nelson | Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana | www.diamondnoutfitters.com | |

Response:

Actually grazing more animals than are allowed under the permit and grazing outside the boundaries of the permit are commonplace.

Brian D. Nelson responded: I can recall many times having the BLM officer who monitors the grazing permits … I also know of ranchers (not many, though) who lost their grazing permits … You,  sir, are clueless.

Across the west you’ll find varying compliance with grazing permits. Ditto logging laws and so on. I regularily volunteer to help with multi-agency state/federal fish surveys in eastern Oregon, and it is not uncommon to find cattle grazing well outside their permitted range. In one case we were surveying for bull trout in a remote backcountry area where grazing permits had been eliminated several years before, and yet we still found cattle and signs of regular grazing activity *inside the former and still-fenced allotments*. Some of the agency folks were suppose to followup on that discovery. Thomas Gilg

Response:

eliminated several years before, and yet we still found cattle and signs of regular grazing activity *inside the former and still-fenced allotments*. Actually grazing more animals than are allowed under the permit and grazing outside the boundaries of the permit are commonplace.

I’m sure there are instances of illegal activity such as you described. However, from my experience, I don’t believe that these instances are "commonplace". — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

FISHING RELATED POST?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You’re getting the lower price right now.  Jesus why do I even bother. christ.  I never met a cattleman who stole America’s grass lands and graze that I liked.  You’re right. Why should a nobody lbother? Mr.G. You never met a cattleman, period. —

Response:

Actually grazing more animals than are allowed under the permit and grazing outside the boundaries of the permit are commonplace.  As enforcement by the government is almost nonexistant, that shouldn’t be surprising.  These common practices do constitute theft in anyone’s book.

Obviously, you’ve never spent any time in eastern Montana where a lot of grazing is done on BLM. I can recall many times having the BLM officer who monitors the grazing permits in our area come around to check grass conditions, number of cattle, water hole conditions, whether or not the ranchers are pulling there cows off public ground at the designated time, etc., etc., etc. I also know of ranchers (not many, though) who lost their grazing permits (and they should) for not following the stipulated conditions on their permit. This same scenario (the proper management of grazing permits) happens all across the American West on both National Forest System Lands and Bureau of Land Management lands. You,  sir, are clueless. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

|  What our outdoor wildlife inventories need is the total removal of all | livestock that steal their food and habitat. | | Why? | | Because wildlife is more valuable to a state’s economy as it is to the | Federal Economy. | | Allowing grazing on Federal (PUBLIC) lands to individual ranchers is stupid | economics. | | George G. | | | | | | | When you’re paying $9 a pound for beef you’ll be blaming that on Bush | too I suppose. | — That’s why I advocate using funds collected from grazing federal lands be used to induce ranchers to use land that has already been converted to farming.  I’d rather convert from arable to grazing land, than forest/prairie to grazing land ! I don’t accept that it’s a choice between cattle & tourists – it’s more of a choice between cattle & migrants. But if we convince ranchers to move East onto arable land, we come closer to both protecting our fragile environments AND providing beef at competitive prices (compared to Argentinean beef). P.S. I remember paying $9 a pound for beef in the UK – beef was one of the most expensive forms of meat. But now I pay $9 a pound for Stilton cheese instead (I paid $3-4 a pound for Stilton in the UK).

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was listening to a recent NPR program, discussing the problems of depopulation in rural communities back east… Most of the rural counties in Oregon are loosing population, and it was several years ago when I heard a statistic that 90% of the rural landowners were age 60 or greater. I don’t know how true the 90% stat is, but it does appear rural america is dwindling for *many* reasons. Though I consider myself an environmentalists, and often see the need for action *now*, I also recognize that there are more powerful long-term changes occuring in the US such as rural depopulation, and often think that there is an opportunity for environmentalists and landowners to accept this trend (rather than force it), and see ways to make it positive. Case in point – I could spend lots of time going after grazing issues, or I could spend lots of time understanding which landowners are wanting to sell off (because their kids aren’t following in their footsteps) and seeing how to move that land into less intensive uses.

That approach is far too thoughtful and intelligent for the hard core greenies to comprehend, let alone follow.

Response:

  When you’re paying $9 a pound for beef you’ll be blaming that on Bush too I suppose.

Getting screwed by Ranchers must stop.  When did YOU ever get a discount on a pound of beef for letting them steal grass and graze and destroying habitat in the past? Never? Your right!! Mr.G.

Response:

Getting screwed by Ranchers must stop.  When did YOU ever get a discount on a pound of beef for letting them steal grass and graze and destroying habitat in the past?

Boy, George, are you living in the netherworld if you think ranchers have ANY influence on the retail price of beef. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

What’s to do with FISHING anyways?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Boy, George, are you living in the netherworld if you think ranchers have ANY influence on the retail price of beef. What, are you suggesting that both ends are getting screwed by the large corporations in the middle? How un-American! Jon.

Response:

<When you’re paying $9 a pound for beef you’ll be blaming that on Bush too I suppose. What if some of us don’t bother to eat that brown shit?

Response:

If it’s brown – you’re cooking it wrong !

| <When you’re paying $9 a pound for beef you’ll be blaming that on Bush | too I suppose. | | What if some of us don’t bother to eat that brown shit?

Response:

It’s "If it’s brown it’s down."  Food from grist for the mill. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -If it’s brown – you’re cooking it wrong ! | <When you’re paying $9 a pound for beef you’ll be blaming that on Bush | too I suppose. | | What if some of us don’t bother to eat that brown shit?

Response:

  When you’re paying $9 a pound for beef you’ll be blaming that on Bush – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – too I suppose. Getting screwed by Ranchers must stop.  When did YOU ever get a discount on a pound of beef for letting them steal grass and graze and destroying habitat in the past? Never? Your right!! Mr.G. You’re getting the lower price right now.  Jesus why do I even bother.

christ.  I never met a cattleman who stole America’s grass lands and graze that I liked.  You’re right. Why should a nobody lbother? Mr.G.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When you’re paying $9 a pound for beef you’ll be blaming that on Bush too I suppose. Getting screwed by Ranchers must stop.  When did YOU ever get a discount on a pound of beef for letting them steal grass and graze and destroying habitat in the past? Never? Your right!! Mr.G. You’re getting the lower price right now.  Jesus why do I even bother. christ.  I never met a cattleman who stole America’s grass lands and graze that I liked.  You’re right. Why should a nobody lbother? Mr.G.

You don’t have to like them, you have that right, but they are not stealing anything. As long as they have grazing permits it is legal.

Response:

I never met a cattleman who stole America’s grass lands and graze that I liked.  You’re right. Why should a nobody lbother?

In this country, you are entitled to your own opinion…. even when it’s an incorrect one. Maybe if you’d actually get out there and meet a real cattleman, you’d change your tune. George– This is Cindy… Brian’s wife writing now.  I cannot believe your comments regarding ranchers/cattlemen ripping off the consumer.  I grew up in Eastern Montana on a small ranch.  My father received 70-90 cents per pound for his calves sold every fall.  This fall the price given to cattlemen for their calves is still 70-75 cents per pound.  Not much of a raise over the past 20 years.  Your accusations against the ranchers holds no water.  You are basically talking out of your rear-end.  If you would do some research and cared about your country, you would see that the family ranches are unable to support their families.  Any help we can give the ranchers in the use of public lands is money put back into our economy and assistance to families who are trying to make a living providing food for your table.  And just in case you are a vegetarian, don’t forget those ranchers who graze cattle on public land can then use the land they own to grow grain and barley for your bread.  Don’t be such a twit. Boy, George… did you ever step in it!! When Cindy reads over my shoulder and kicks me off the keyboard…. well, you get the drift. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When you’re paying $9 a pound for beef you’ll be blaming that on Bush too I suppose. Getting screwed by Ranchers must stop.  When did YOU ever get a discount on a pound of beef for letting them steal grass and graze and destroying habitat in the past? Never? Your right!! Mr.G. You’re getting the lower price right now.  Jesus why do I even bother. christ.  I never met a cattleman who stole America’s grass lands and graze that I liked.  You’re right. Why should a nobody lbother? Mr.G. You don’t have to like them, you have that right, but they are not stealing anything. As long as they have grazing permits it is legal.

Actually grazing more animals than are allowed under the permit and grazing outside the boundaries of the permit are commonplace.  As enforcement by the government is almost nonexistant, that shouldn’t be surprising.  These common practices do constitute theft in anyone’s book. Jon

Response:

I was listening to a recent NPR program, discussing the problems of depopulation in rural communities back east – sorry, can’t remember the exact state, possibly one of the Dakotas. The program talked about how more people are getting college education and moving away to city jobs, leaving rural life. As a result some farmers are converting their land back to prairie. What little I know of the Eastern states, I’d guess this is some pretty decent farm land being lost.  I also recently read about farm land in Wisconsin being converted back to forest. I know that here in the Southwest, we are enduring one of the worst droughts ever. Phoenix has had just 2.24 inches of rain this year, and may get no more rain until February or March. People are leaving the East and moving out West in huge numbers, and so people & agriculture are competing for many natural resources. So, it doesn’t sound so bad to me, when  "Hard-line environmentalists" are simply helping to maximize the reward to the taxpayers, from the business use of  Federal land. In a free market economy the cost for federal grazing rights should b e"all the market will bear". I know that there is an argument that this policy will reduce domestic beef production & increase imports. Well……perhaps we should consider the most efficient way this country feeds its’self. As a taxpayer and an eater, I want the cheapest (safe) beef I can get. This allows me to spend more of my income on other (US-made) products. It’s a tough life being a farmer. My grandfather was a successful farmer in England. He changed & correctly predicted the trends and made a profit – he didn’t need subsidies. He changed a farm that was widely diversified (sugarbeet, chickens, barley & milk, were just some of the products) to a farm that was specialized – he was one of the first in the area to see the demand for oil seed rape. As a farmer it doesn’t seem fair that a successful way of life is being changed. But all forms of business change over time – including farming.

|         www.sfgate.com        Return to regular view | In the old West, a tense showdown over federal lands | JIM CARLTON, The Wall Street Journal | Monday, November 11, 2002 |

Question:

    it wasn’t the dwarf.     the phone woke me from a desperate dream involving my seventh grade math teacher, ms. rogers, and a thong bikini.  i looked at the glowing numbers on the digital clock, and watched in near disbelief as i finally realized that "4:30" kept blinking at me as i mumbled responses to the voice on the other end of the line.  high pitched, youthful, and bursting with excitement, the language predicted an arrival within the hour.  feeling precisely like a character from the beatles’ "sgt. pepper"  (woke up, fell out of bed, ran a comb across my hair…), i gathered my beloved little hamilton bamboo and some ragged remnants of what now seems another life and prepared for the arrival of ol zimbo the earnest.  instead of a knock on the door, i get a cell call.  dude is lost; an easy thing to do in a metropolis such as greensboro, nc.  i direct him unerringly to my new digs, and we are off in a whirl of  coffee fumes and early morning hopes.     after a trip made quick by the always pleasant exchange of ideas between myself and my fellow traveler (not) we arrived at chez waldo, a location made bearable only by the presence of little marie the long-suffering.  we geared up and fell (almost literally) into the very cold waters of the mighty watauga river, all of thirty feet wide.  the bastards were tougher than any stockers i have ever run across, falling only to small pt nymphs driven deep with lead.  yeah, forty, i know, that ain’t trout fishin; but it beats a cedar branch shoved up your anal cavity.     hoping that the water up on grandfather mountain would warm by midday, acting up as of late, so our progress was quite slow even on the downhill trip to the water.  but the trip was well worth the pain.  this creek is breathtaking in its raw beauty.  flowing though a gorge filled with cabin-sized granite rocks, plunge pools, and falls, it is the archtype carolina freestone backwoods stream.  the water was higher than i would have ever thought, and so cold that staying in it for longer than about twenty minutes at a time was an act of courage or foolishness, depending upon one’s philosophy.  as the more mature members of the threesome held steady to a committment to fish as a gentleman, the irrepressible zimbo dredged the long, black runs with his favorite weapons:  tiny nymphs, lead, and a stick-on.  of course, if one is to be an objective reporter, one must admit that he met with far more success than did we.  but in the final analysis, life is about quality, not quantity…i think.     a moment’s excitement was created when a rainbow of over a foot in length, with the characteristic black back and dark red stripe, surged from a seam between very fast water and a foam covered eddy to smash my 16 para adams.  i snapped the 5x as if it were a spyder’s web in my panicked overreaction.  it’s been a long time between strikes.     photography was a more productive activity than fishing, and i can hardly wait to see the prints of my companions and their environment:  weak little primates crawling around and up the pebbles of the gods, waving their foolish sticks and feathers in futility, cradled by the strength of timeless rock and the relentless, indomitable water that flows across its surface.     it was good to be back where trout live. from the beauty of the old north state to all of you, i remain yr obt svt a. wayne harrison

Response:

…..ok, maybe there’s one or two others but still it’s a burden…..

BWAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Wolfgang cleri……carrio……clariu……ah rats!

Response:

Watch it, wayno. Careless use of ‘native’ ain’t happening in this newsgroup any more.  :-) Welcome the hell back, counselor! "Why can’t everybody else leave everybody else alone?"                               -Hank Junior

Response:

Well, what a coincidence!  After almost 2 weeks of almost total internet blackout (due to technical "difficulties" beyond the grasp of the Wile E. Coyote "support" personnel at Road Runner), I come back looking for something interesting and sure enough I find it.  That primes me nicely for my lower Upper excursion tomorrow, thank you very much.

Response:

   it was good to be back where trout live.

Thanks for a great trip report. I was thinking of you and your son this morning as I just received notice that one of my friend’s wife has just set a Texas state record by catching a 10 1/4 inch redear. Big Dale

Response:

  it was good to be back where trout live. from the beauty of the old north state to all of you, i remain yr obt svt a. wayne harrison

Brilliant prose, thanks Wayne. Good to see the old "Upper Case"free, typing again. The monitor smiles now. — Bill Grey http://www.billboy.co.uk

Response:

   it wasn’t the dwarf.

[a typical nc tr snip]    it was good to be back where trout live. from the beauty of the old north state to all of you, i remain yr obt svt a. wayne harrison

lookit wayno, don’t you ever leave me alone with this bunch of crackpots ever again  - eh!! do you have any idea how hard it is being the sole voice of reason in this loony bin?  ok, maybe there’s one or two others but still it’s a burden.   good to have you back. man Peter

Response:

…  yeah, forty, i know, that ain’t trout fishin; but it beats a cedar branch shoved up your anal cavity. Well, you do have a way with words. Have missed your mellifluous musings, good to see you back.

Meli….melliph…..mellif……damn, I’m LOOKING at that and I can’t spell it!  Funniest way to say smelly old poop I ever saw. Wolfgang dwarf or lawyer…..dwarf or lawyer…..dwarf or lawyer……hm…gotta think about that

Response:

It’s good to see you again, Wayne. Thanks for the report, Herman     it wasn’t the dwarf.

<rest of a great report creatively snipped

Response:

Meli….melliph…..mellif……damn, I’m LOOKING at that and I can’t spell it!  Funniest way to say smelly old poop I ever saw.

No doubt!  Why not just say it the easy: "Ken" <g How was the game last night turd licker? — Warren Findley "The vice or virtue of any form of angling lies not in the method but in the man." Author Hugh Falkus

Response:

…  yeah, forty, i know, that ain’t trout fishin; but it beats a cedar branch shoved up your anal cavity.

Well, you do have a way with words. Have missed your mellifluous musings, good to see you back. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    it wasn’t the dwarf. HAH! I called it – I *knew* it was you! What’d I win, Z’man?    it was good to be back where trout live. from the beauty of the old north state to all of you, i remain yr obt svt a. wayne harrison The dump has seemed empty without you, wayno. Welcome home. /daytripper (Did I win a Hamilton Rod? Huh? Huh?

Yeah – the dwarf has it….<G TC, R

Response:

   it wasn’t the dwarf.    the phone woke me from a desperate dream involving my seventh grade math teacher, ms. rogers, and a thong bikini.

 <Gratuitous imagery snipped, for the sake of gentler readers Well, if it is a forgery, it’s pretty dead-nut accurate…<G Welcome back, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -from the beauty of the old north state to all of you, i remain yr obt svt a. wayne harrison

Response:

    the phone woke me from a desperate dream involving my seventh grade math teacher, ms. rogers, and a thong bikini.

Missed you wayno, not to mention your superb imagery.   Welcome back.   You didn’t miss much (that you haven’t seen in another version.) Joe F.

Response:

   it wasn’t the dwarf.

HAH! I called it – I *knew* it was you! What’d I win, Z’man?    it was good to be back where trout live. from the beauty of the old north state to all of you, i remain yr obt svt a. wayne harrison

The dump has seemed empty without you, wayno. Welcome home. /daytripper (Did I win a Hamilton Rod? Huh? Huh?

Response:

   it was good to be back where trout live. from the beauty of the old north state to all of you, i remain yr obt svt a. wayne harrison

Good to see you back astream as well!  So it took Zimbo waking you from a wet dream to get your tired old bones moving or were you secretely thinking of you and your 7th grade teacher in a foot race pursuing Zimbo in a thong?!!! Inquiring minds want to know!! I shudda known, dry fly purist to the end. Been listening to Walt again haven’t ya?  It musta been early for you to have fallen for Zimbo letting you use his breathables while he snuggled down in those nice warm neoprenes.  Now, get off your arse and come north for some gentlemanly fishing (I’ve got a beautiful 100% wild trout river staked out with nice and easy walking)! Wayne to fish is human…..to release Divine!!  —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web  —–   http://newsone.net/ — Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groups    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts

Response:

i remain

We certainly hope so.  Nice to have you back Wayno. Wolfgang

Response:

It is nice to have you and your posts back Wayno!  A very nice trip report indeed. Warren

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     it wasn’t the dwarf.     the phone woke me from a desperate dream involving my seventh grade math teacher, ms. rogers, and a thong bikini.  i looked at the glowing numbers on the digital clock, and watched in near disbelief as i finally realized that "4:30" kept blinking at me as i mumbled responses to the voice on the other end of the line.  high pitched, youthful, and bursting with excitement, the language predicted an arrival within the hour.  feeling precisely like a character from the beatles’ "sgt. pepper"  (woke up, fell out of bed, ran a comb across my hair…), i gathered my beloved little hamilton bamboo and some ragged remnants of what now seems another life and prepared for the arrival of ol zimbo the earnest.  instead of a knock on the door, i get a cell call.  dude is lost; an easy thing to do in a metropolis such as greensboro, nc.  i direct him unerringly to my new digs, and we are off in a whirl of  coffee fumes and early morning hopes.     after a trip made quick by the always pleasant exchange of ideas between myself and my fellow traveler (not) we arrived at chez waldo, a location made bearable only by the presence of little marie the long-suffering.  we geared up and fell (almost literally) into the very cold waters of the mighty watauga river, all of thirty feet wide.  the bastards were tougher than any stockers i have ever run across, falling only to small pt nymphs driven deep with lead.  yeah, forty, i know, that ain’t trout fishin; but it beats a cedar branch shoved up your anal cavity.     hoping that the water up on grandfather mountain would warm by midday, really acting up as of late, so our progress was quite slow even on the downhill trip to the water.  but the trip was well worth the pain.  this creek is breathtaking in its raw beauty.  flowing though a gorge filled with cabin-sized granite rocks, plunge pools, and falls, it is the archtype carolina freestone backwoods stream.  the water was higher than i would have ever thought, and so cold that staying in it for longer than about twenty minutes at a time was an act of courage or foolishness, depending upon one’s philosophy.  as the more mature members of the threesome held steady to a committment to fish as a gentleman, the irrepressible zimbo dredged the long, black runs with his favorite weapons:  tiny nymphs, lead, and a stick-on.  of course, if one is to be an objective reporter, one must admit that he met with far more success than did we.  but in the final analysis, life is about quality, not quantity…i think.     a moment’s excitement was created when a rainbow of over a foot in length, with the characteristic black back and dark red stripe, surged from a seam between very fast water and a foam covered eddy to smash my 16 para adams.  i snapped the 5x as if it were a spyder’s web in my panicked overreaction.  it’s been a long time between strikes.     photography was a more productive activity than fishing, and i can hardly wait to see the prints of my companions and their environment:  weak little primates crawling around and up the pebbles of the gods, waving their foolish sticks and feathers in futility, cradled by the strength of timeless rock and the relentless, indomitable water that flows across its surface.     it was good to be back where trout live. from the beauty of the old north state to all of you, i remain yr obt svt a. wayne harrison

Response:

Question:

Could anyone name me some fine Grayling/trout rivers in the area of Sheffield England? Tanks LV

Response:

Could anyone name me some fine Grayling/trout rivers in the area of Sheffield England?

Very few, very much in demand, and apt to be expensive I’m afraid. The three main rivers are in Derbyshire, roughly 20 miles south-west of Sheffield. Best of these is the Wye, and tickets available for a short stretch of the Chatsworth Estate water – Tel Keeper 01246-582513 or Estate Office 01246-582242. I believe this is dry-fly only. A further six miles available centred round the town of Bakewell – Tel 01629-733518 or (keeper) 01629-636255. The other rivers are the Derwent and Dove (Isaac Waltons home river), but I haven’t any info on tickets to hand. I’ll try and dig some out if you’re interested. If you want more than these, then I can’t think of much any nearer than the welsh Dee, which is about 60 miles away, or the rivers of North Yorkshire or Lancashire, which are very good, but a lot further away. I guess that explains why good fishing around Sheffield is not cheap. Cheers Ian D

Response:

Question:

Hit the same stream today, Monday, with my son on his 11th birthday. Arrived around noon, air temp pushing 70 degrees and a cloudless day. We run into one other fisherman getting dressed by the parking.  We agree he’ll head downstream and we’ll go up.  Into the woods, and we run into two other fishermen (another man and his son, NJ schools are on spring break), and we walk upstream a quarter mile and we’re alone again. My son swelters during the walk in, wearing his non-breathable chest waders and arrives on stream in a bit of a grump.  He hates overheating.  Realize I should have carried the waders in and let him change streamside.  I’m comfortable in my waist-high Gore-Tex. A few practice casts with a #16 pheasant tail and he’s convinced there are no fish here.  No luck in the first three pockets.  Then we arrive at the first decent pool, and two fish are rising steadily to dark stone flies. Off comes the PT and on goes the black caddis.  My son and I take turns casting.  He starts, has trouble getting the line out, and hands me the rod. I catch a 6" rainbow on the second offering.  He takes the rod back, gets off a decent cast, and lands a twin.  I land the third fish on the same pool a few moments later.  That concludes the action on the pool.  We move on. My son decides he’s enjoying sitting in the river in his waders, and throwing rocks, more than fishing and releases me (more or less) to fish.  A couple of large pools, and no action.  The surface is very quiet, and I can only assume I lined the fish. Then, 100 yards along, a compact, deep pool (at least 4 feet).  Having trouble seeing the black caddis fly, but after my second cast I see the flash of a fish’s belly taking something, and set the hook.  After a caroming fight across the entire pool, it turns out to be a fat 12" male rainbow in rich spawning colors. Another pocket, and another 7" fish.  Then my son announces he wants to leave.  It IS his birthday after all.  I’m thinking that if I’m alone, this is a 20 fish afternoon, easy.  Nevertheless, with one rod between us, we’ve caught 5 fish in less than 40 minutes, all on the caddis-stonefly. We go home, spotting a garter snake along the way.  My son grabs it, and later tells his grandmother he caught "one fish and one snake." Michael

Response:

Just to say that the Garden State has a surprising amount to offer the wild trout fisherman who’s not obsessed with size of catch. On a stream to remain anonymous… This is a heavily wooded, small freestone stream.  Less than 90 minutes from Times Square, within two hours of 30 million people.  But on the stream all is peaceful.  No houses are visible in this stretch, just a mature hardwood forest.   NO ONE else is about, and the steep valley walls block out any possible traffic noise.  The water averages about a foot deep, cutting through some steep hills.  A series of small flats and little cascading plunge pools.  An occasional deeper pool or run.  Average width is no more than 15 feet. Arrived mid-day on Friday after moderate rain Thursday.  Surprised to find the water still running muddy with run-off.  Fishing for the first hour or so was pretty much a bust.  Water continued to run cloudy, but gradually changed from muddy to blue-green and fish started to hit. Was fishing a #14 bead-head pheasant tail for most of the afternoon, concentrating on the deeper pockets and deep pools/runs.  This was hit and run fishing, hitting a pocket with a few casts, then walking 20-30 yards to the next one. The deeper the pocket, the larger the fish, ranging from 6" to 12".  After 2 PM, most pockets rewarded me with a take.  Some with two or three, a big fish (9"+) at the deepest point, then smaller fish.  Wild rainbows in spawning splendor.  One brown.   By 4 o’clock I’d caught and released at least 20 fish. As I approached what I’d decided would be the last hole, I noticed a fish rise a couple of times.  Pulled off the pheasant tail, and put on a black elk hair caddis.  It took the first offering.  Turned out to be a fat 9"+ rainbow!  Lept twice before diving into a deep pocket, where I had to drag him out before releasing him.  First fish of the season on a dry! Michael

Response:

Question:

I will be in Australia’s Northern Territory (near Darwin) in late August through September. I was hoping someone could offer some advice as to what weight rods I should bring and what type of flies. Any help will be greatly appreciated. -Alex Hill

Response:

I will be in Australia’s Northern Territory (near Darwin) in late August through September. I was hoping someone could offer some advice as to what weight rods I should bring and what type of flies. Any help will be greatly appreciated. -Alex Hill

from what appears to be the area you are describing. He has developed some flies that were effective enough for his son to establish a new world record on one of the fish (I don’t remember the name)in a line/tippet class. Please mention Flymaker during your communication. It will probably cause him to be more willing to be of assistance.

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I will be in Australia’s Northern Territory (near Darwin) in late August through September. I was hoping someone could offer some advice as to what weight rods I should bring and what type of flies. Any help will be greatly appreciated. -Alex Hill

Hi Alex, What sort of fish do you want to catch? Freshwater rivers and billabongs (lakes) – barramundi are not really on the bite at that time of year, but saratoga are and are excellent sport on 8-10 wt rods with surface flies like dahlberg divers. Saltwater is excellent in August-September with large spanish mackerel (king mackerel?), longtail tuna, queenfish and giant trevally all close to Darwin. I will try to get some Darwin guides email addresses or phone numbers for you. Cheers John Knight Sydney Fly Rodders’

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Question:

Has anyone used the commercially available tents that are designed to be used in a pick-up truck bed.  What do you think of them?  Anyone know where they are available?  Better yet has anyone built one and have any tips for me? Thanks — Tim’s Coastal Georgia Fishing Page http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Trails/1000/

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Tim, Check out http://www.ewalker.com/adgear/tentspec.htm It has an image of and info about a truck tent.  I purchased the tent (from CAMPMOR) for use with my GMC Sonoma and have been very pleased with it.  It is not the highest quality tent available but is quite servicable and I like the durable woven polyethylene floor.  The compact truck bed is a bit tight but quite usable–I imagine a full-size truck would make for a very spacious tent.  I like being able to camp just about anywhere and not being on the ground.  The tailgate ends up being a nice platform for cooking and/or dirty boot storage etc. Tom Has anyone used the commercially available tents that are designed to be used in a pick-up truck bed.  What do you think of them?  Anyone know where they are available?  Better yet has anyone built one and have any tips for me? Thanks — Tim’s Coastal Georgia Fishing Page http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Trails/1000/

– University of Iowa Central Microscopy Research Facility http://www.uiowa.edu/~cemrf Views expressed are mine.

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They are available in camping word’s catalog and I believe that they are in Camphor’s too. Look nice enough I guess. Have no Idea how they perform.

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Thanks Tom, That is what I was looking for.  I have a full size Dodge with an 8 foot bed, should be big enough even though I am 6 foot 2.  What type of headroom does yours provide?  Enough room for a couple of people?  Do you have any problem with rain getting into the bed or does the rain fly extend over the sides of the bed all the way around. Thanks for the help, Tim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tim, Check out http://www.ewalker.com/adgear/tentspec.htm It has an image of and info about a truck tent.  I purchased the tent (from CAMPMOR) for use with my GMC Sonoma and have been very pleased with it.  It is not the highest quality tent available but is quite servicable and I like the durable woven polyethylene floor.  The compact truck bed is a bit tight but quite usable–I imagine a full-size truck would make for a very spacious tent.  I like being able to camp just about anywhere and not being on the ground.  The tailgate ends up being a nice platform for cooking and/or dirty boot storage etc. Tom Has anyone used the commercially available tents that are designed to be used in a pick-up truck bed.  What do you think of them?  Anyone know where they are available?  Better yet has anyone built one and have any tips for me? Thanks — Tim’s Coastal Georgia Fishing Page http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Trails/1000/ — University of Iowa Central Microscopy Research Facility http://www.uiowa.edu/~cemrf Views expressed are mine.

– Tim’s Coastal Georgia Fishing Page http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Trails/1000/

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Has anyone used the commercially available tents that are designed to be used in a pick-up truck bed.  What do you think of them?  Anyone know where they are available?  Better yet has anyone built one and have any tips for me? Thanks

The truck tents are available at Campmor in Paramus NJ. Try http://www.campmor.com We bought a Flip-Pak camper top (available thru Six-Pak dealers) for our full-size Chev PU this summer and have been very happy with it. It is a bed-mounted shell, slightly higher than the cab & weighs but 280 pounds.  It looks like a "standard" shell on the road, but in camp the top of the shell opens up, folding forward over the cab, forming a full-size double bed.  The whole thing is covered by a tent giving full headroom over the bed of the truck and sitting headroom over the cab-over bed.   The whole thing can be set up or down in about 30 seconds.. it’s very easy.  We carry all our gear in the bed of the truck, packed in plastic storage boxes.  Works great.  You can carry a small boat on the top of the shell if you want. The tent is not the greatest in really wet weather, but you can buy an optional "storm cover" to solve those problems.   Good luck . . . Kurt

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Has anyone used the commercially available tents that are designed to be used in a pick-up truck bed.  What do you think of them?  Anyone know where they are available?  Better yet has anyone built one and have any tips for me? Thanks

I saw a tent that set up on the ground but connected to the back of the truck. The guy that had it said you you could get it to fit pick-ups with cab tops, vans, or station wagons. I liked his because he had put a low profile A/C unit on his cab top and had a couple of pullout storage boxes that doubled as a table. He had more room in this thing than my pop-up.

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Has anyone used the commercially available tents that are designed to be used in a pick-up truck bed.  What do you think of them?  Anyone know where they are available?  Better yet has anyone built one and have any tips for me? Thanks I saw a tent that set up on the ground but connected to the back of the truck. The guy that had it said you you could get it to fit pick-ups with cab tops, vans, or station wagons. I liked his because he had put a low profile A/C unit on his cab top and had a couple of pullout storage boxes that doubled as a table. He had more room in this thing than my pop-up.

Thanks, never seen one of those before.  I think I am going to go with the Sprortz Tent though. — Tim’s Coastal Georgia Fishing Page http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Trails/1000/

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I’ve never used one, but I’ve seen them sold at Campmor – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone used the commercially available tents that are designed to be used in a pick-up truck bed.  What do you think of them?  Anyone know where they are available?  Better yet has anyone built one and have any tips for me? Thanks I saw a tent that set up on the ground but connected to the back of the truck. The guy that had it said you you could get it to fit pick-ups with cab tops, vans, or station wagons. I liked his because he had put a low profile A/C unit on his cab top and had a couple of pullout storage boxes that doubled as a table. He had more room in this thing than my pop-up.

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Thanks, ordered one from Redhead. — Tim’s Coastal Georgia Fishing Page http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Trails/1000/

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Question:

We need your contributions to a new website for Mid-Atlantic flyfishers! I live in Bethesda, MD, right next to the Potomac River. I am an avid smallmouth/blugill flyfisherman, but I also enjoy fishing for trout. Like many of you, I’m feeling the Spring urge to start fishing again. Nobody likes their favorite fishing spots given away or mobbed. Having said that, there is enough good water to fish in the Mid-Atlantic area for us to share some information. To that end, I have published a website solely for purposes of exchanging information. (I do this sort of thing for a living.) I have absolutely no other interest than, like you, to know where conditions are good, where fish are caught, etc. The website is up and running now. Here is the URL: http://www.erols.com/sierra1/flyfish/midfly.htm The site isn’t fancy, but contains quality information based on first-hand knowledge. My goal is to make this site timely and functional. It will improve over time, and I will update it every time I receive information. All I ask is that you send me a brief message—at your convenience—with a few words on conditions in your area, a recent outing, successful fly patterns…or anything else that might be of use to us all. You’re welcome to give me a call too. I’ll post my home phone number below. Please take a look at the site. It is divided into areas for Virginia, Maryland, and Pennsylvania. There are also areas for fly patterns and stories or anecdotes. I’m committed to doing the work on my end. The site’s success will be determined by your willingness to contribute info, trip reports, etc. Thanks, and I look forward to hearing from you! Scott Wilkinson Bethesda, MD h: (301) 229-2863 w: (301) 229-9585 f: (301) 320-6154 Mid-Atlantic Flyfishing page: http://www.erols.com/sierra1/flyfish/midfly.htm

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Question:

I’ll be in the Syracuse, NY area this April, and wonder if anyone out there has any suggestions for nice fishing streams or lakes in the area. I don’t plan to lug my waders along, as I’m taking the train.  Relatives will drive me wherever. I’ll be taking only 2 rods (4wt, 6wt) and a typical vest’s worth of gear. Also, what flies work best in the area at this time?  I’ve tied a mess of midges, caddis, pupas, pheasant tails, and wooly buggers.

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If you are interested, and can go a little ways away, go up rte 81 to Parish/Camden/Osceola. Good strems include the E. Branch of the Samon River, Fish Creek, and the Mad River. They’re not taking flies as of last week, (opening day), but as soon as it heats up a little you should do fine. Or go to streamers. If you need more info please feel free to

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        Why don’t we start another subnet for flyfishing, and then break down each major cat. so that we can become organized in our net. Something to think about, it’s helped other news groups out alot! GN

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   Why don’t we start another subnet for flyfishing, and then break down each major cat. so that we can become organized in our net. Something to think about, it’s helped other news groups out alot!

The traffic level isn’t high enough to justify creating subgroups.  The flyfishing discussions seem to be coexisting quite well with all the other discussions.   — John Fereira

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