Question:

Jim,     IMHO, I’d try fly fishing the ocean personally because there doesn’t seem to be many great streams/rivers in the SD area….   Oceanwise, you might get to hook up with some Bonita, Yellowtail etc… that would be great…. even a Mackeral on the fly would be a challenge, depending on the weight rod.       Otherwise, fly fishing in SoCal, alot of it is float-tubing the lakes down there, try Lake Miramar, or Lake Hodges,,    you have chances at the stocker Rainbows or record setting Largemouth Bass…..   Good Luck, have a great week fishing in SD. (good Marinas for 1 day fishing trips for Yellowtail, Sand Bass, Barracuda & Tuna are Seaforth & H&M Landing, they’re right down there by Seaworld, downtown, SD).                        Lizet

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Heading for San Diego for two weeks in December.  Any hints on where I can fly-fish as that is the only equipment I will be able to pack.  Also names of off-shore fishing companies that I can contact for 1 day trips.     Shad Man

Response:

Depends where you are staying in SD.  I rent a house in Mission Beach each year and fish out of Seaforth as it is nice and my wife can bike over and get the car later.  Most of the landings nearer downdown are all clustered around H&M and are West of the Airport. Flyfish the rocks at La Jolla.  2 links are http://www.sport-fish-info.com/counts/ for landings and http://www.sdsportsfishing.com For some tips and areas.  I also go to Squidco or SQC near downtown for an equipment trip.  Large warehouse tackle store. Bill

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Heading for San Diego for two weeks in December.  Any hints on where I can fly-fish as that is the only equipment I will be able to pack.  Also names of off-shore fishing companies that I can contact for 1 day trips.     Shad Man

Response:

Heading for San Diego for two weeks in December.  Any hints on where I can fly-fish as that is the only equipment I will be able to pack.  Also names of off-shore fishing companies that I can contact for 1 day trips.     Shad Man

Response:

Question:

Can anybody help with my planned RV trip from Vancouver to Mexico? I would be obliged if any readers could provide me with good routes, places to visit and decent fishing spots along the way. Additionally can anyone recommend a reputable RV rental company in the USA or Canada? Thank you.                                Pattayaman, England Before you buy.

Check out http://www.prd.state.or.us/ for help on planning the Oregon chunk of your trip. And let me know if you need mroe info. Thanks. — Chris Havel Oregon Parks and Recreation Dept. www.prd.state.or.us

Response:

Where in Mexico do you want to go? How much time do you want to spend? Is fishing your main interest? What kind of fishing? Other interests? A "one way" rental, picking up in one country and dropping off in another is going to be very difficult: impossible in Mexico.

  Yup.   You might have to fly into Vancover then come down to Seattle and then rent an RV, returning in say in San Dieago. Which would require one of the larger firms (Cruise America, etc). Anything other then one of the large national firms (Cruise Canada, Cruse America, etc) would require you to return the RV to the point of rental. — RV and Camping FAQ http://kendaco.telebyte.com/rlindber/rv   If Windows is the answer I would really like to know what the question is

Response:

Can anybody help with my planned RV trip from Vancouver to Mexico? I would be obliged if any readers could provide me with good routes, places to visit and decent fishing spots along the way. Additionally can anyone recommend a reputable RV rental company in the USA or Canada? Thank you.                                Pattayaman, England Before you buy.

Response:

Where in Mexico do you want to go? How much time do you want to spend? Is fishing your main interest? What kind of fishing? Other interests? A "one way" rental, picking up in one country and dropping off in another is going to be very difficult: impossible in Mexico. Ed Kipling – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anybody help with my planned RV trip from Vancouver to Mexico?                                Pattayaman, England Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

yep agree completely…as a newbie to the sport I finally got serious and traded in the 7 wt telephone pole and now use a nice Redington actually it was a gift from a friend. I have practised with that sucker and gone to some classes and it certainly does help with a newer model and constant practise I agree whole heartedly with your assesment and here on the Bow River you NEED practise. but then the rewards are great! Pierre – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well I had to take a second look at my casting when I got and Orvis Trident 6wt. after sending in my PM10 to be repaired (broken tip) They took over a month so they gave me an upgrade in the form of the new Trident. I tried the Trident and decided I liked the PM10 better, it hid my mistakes but when I told the fly shop guy I liked the PM10 better he said most people really don’t know how to cast but if I still wanted a PM10 again I could trade back. I got slightly offended but decided to give it another chance, I looked back through the magazine casting tips and practiced. I am by no means the best and real instruction would help me alot but I can fish trout here in Colo half a day making 10′ – 30′ then fish bass or whatever using heavy patterns at long distances the rest of the day. I find simple mistakes make a difference like for acccuracy having the right foot forward I look at others casting and many have thier feet together  or they move thier bodies too much during a short cast, or people making too many false casts when going for distance with too much line out to control. Sometimes when everything is working right I don’t have to think about casting, I just do it and it reminds me of some type of dance or martial arts where everything is smooth and rythmic and as fast or slow short or long as it needs to be. Onew thing I know is if you have to work too hard with the right equiptment you are to blame. If not for the guy at the fly shop I would still be making the same mistakes that my teaching myself to cast has caused. Enjoy… nyroc.rr.com… IMHO, the importantance of casting accurately far exceeds the ability to cast distance. Recently I read an article where the author has that same opinion. However, I’d like to share the authors definition of casting accuracy and hear your comments. Here is the section of the article in which the author provides his/her (author is unknown) definition. Also, note the title of the article: "YOU CAN’T CAST! …. between 70 & 80% of fly fishers just can’t cast. Very simply put … putting the fly where it belongs. The question is…"Can you put your fly where you want it 85% of the time?" If you can’t, then you can’t cast! A good test for casting ability is to put a 24" circle at about 30 feet and see how many times you can put the fly in the circle. The 30 foot range is about the average cast you might make when fishing for trout. Even with a breeze, getting the fly in the circle 9 out of 10 casts is possible". Now I’ve participated in several similar exercises at which there were about 20 flyfishers, guides, casting instructors and fly fishing retailers. I will withhold the results of those experiences until after you ROFFians have a chance to express your opinions. I hope you who reply base your opinions on experience rather then wishful thinking or ego. So let’s hear it. Using typical trout equipment for a medium stream, how many can drop a fly within 12 inches of the center of a 24 inch circle while standing about 30′ away, knee deep or deeper in a stream/river in typical trout season weather? Hi Allan, the author is perfectly correct, as indeed you are. Accuracy is of paramount importance.   We now regularly hold special casting clinics here at one of my local clubs. The first one we held, some years ago, was a cast-in for the whole area, as further instructors were needed at many clubs in order to comply with the German fishing laws that casting skill of a certain level must be achieved before a licence is granted.  We had one hundred and forty three casters taking part on this particular day, all wanting to obtain an instructors certificate. ( The instructors certificate is considerably more difficult to obtain than the licence itself ). This is all honorary, and no financial reward etc is attached to the licence, and it is only valid for instruction at a state fisheries exam so nothing can be made from it either in financial terms. The emphasis is on accuracy, and control. Distance casting is not required. In the accuracy test,  points are given for casting at various distances to a series of rings the inner ring of which is ten inches in diameter, and progresses out to 120 inches in diameter.  The rings are laid out on grass, and carefully measured. The inner ring is ten points, each subsequent ring of greater diameter one point less, and there are five rings. Ten casts are allowed, there is no time limit, or limit on false casts etc.  There are no restrictions on rods, lines leader length etc ( some were using four foot leaders !!! ).The minimum requirement to obtain a fishing licence is 30 points.  The instructors requirement is 45 points.  Of all the gentlemen who cast on this occasion, many of whom had been fishing for a long time, in some cases twenty years and more, and considered themselves good casters, only three, including myself and my wife ( who was the only woman present ), managed to reach or exceed the minimum instructors requirements at first. Many complained that there was a crosswind, and for this reason they were unable to cast. After eleven  casters had cast  ( including myself and my wife ) the complaints were so loud, that the state judges moved the casting blocks so that the relatively slight wind was from behind the casters.  My wife and I and one other caster were asked if we would mind casting again under the better conditions, although we had met the necessary requirements. We agreed to do so.  Many people had also in the meantime apparently complained that my wife and I were using "English methods ", which was unfair !!!!   And now for the results: In the first round ( with cross wind ) I cast 87  and my wife cast 81 points, the other caster who was asked to cast again cast 57 points. No other caster achieved more than thirty points, some missing the target all together. In the second round,  after the blocks were moved, I cast 94 points my wife 87 points, one other gentleman cast 67 points, and only three others reached the minimum 45 points required for an instructors certificate, some in fact not even managing the thirty points required for a normal fishing licence although all those present already posessed one ), and quite a few missing the target altogether. I wish to stress here that this is not a competition, it is a state fisheries law requirement that instructors reach a certain level of expertise, and that would be anglers also reach a minimum of casting skill before being granted a licence. This is of course in addition to the theoretical written exam requirements. The standard of casting was appalling, and many who were certain that they were excellent casters got very pissed off indeed when they saw their actual results.  Quite a few of those present came over to talk to myself and my wife after the exam was over, and wanted advice and instruction.  Several points arose from this: None of those present had had any decent formal instruction, but had "taught themselves", or "been taught by a friend". Most of the equipment in use was mismatched, and in most cases far too heavy for normal trout  fishing, #7 sinking lines and 10 foot rods like broomsticks being fairly common. A few people had fairly decent rods, but the lines were so hopelessly mismatched that it was well nigh impossible to cast with them. Every single one of those present had hopelessly overestimated their abilities, and this was a shock to most of them. We were asked to do a demo for quite a few of the people who stayed around, and strangely enough, although it had just been amply demonstrated to all present that their accuracy and general casting was abysmal, the most asked question was "how can I increase my casting distance". We did a quick survey of those present, ( about forty people ), asking them how far they could cast, and noted the results. These were checked with a tape measure afterwards as each person cast.  Every single person present overestimated their distance capabilities sometimes by twenty feet or even in some cases appreciably more. We set up an area and did a few distance casts with gear I had in the car, and then watched as a few very nearly bust their guts trying to reach anything like the distance.  Only one of those present was familiar with the double haul, and he was lousy at it.  Quite a few others got quite angry, saying I and my wife must be using "tricks" or "special rods " or "lines" or that we were "professionals from England" or something. Over the years in the UK and here I have seen many people casting, and the general standards are awful.  It is a very sobering experience for many to try the exercise you mention in your  post under controlled conditions. What is even stranger is that even lousy casters are proud of their supposed abilities, and get very upset indeed when shown that it is not as good as they would like to believe. A matter of misplaced pride I believe. The reluctance to take lessons, or be shown anything is also rather remarkable. You are more likely to anger somebody by casting better

… read more »

Response:

If my fly lands in water I declare it a direct hit. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Response:

If my fly lands in water I declare it a direct hit.

Seems reasonable Tim, better than landing in a tree anyway, but not necessarily better than landing in a bush ! TL MC

Response:

I’m pretty good at stretching my backcast 1/2" too far to catch the tip of the last branch of the last bush on the bank. I’d say that’s pretty accurate…

I hear ya…it takes supreme accuracy and nerves of steel to lose 3 double rigged dropper setups in the exact same branch 3 casts in a row after missing a nice one (fish). — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Response:

If my fly lands in water I declare it a direct hit. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

_______  I was prepared to read something more recondite regarding your casting in the woods.

Response:

My talent precisely.  In fact, I also seem to have an uncanny ability for tying superb knots with my airborne leader and fly around the very same branch. Bob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m pretty good at stretching my backcast 1/2" too far to catch the tip of the last branch of the last bush on the bank. I’d say that’s pretty accurate… JonCook. — Fishermen kill fish. This is who we are.

Response:

_______  I was prepared to read something more recondite regarding your casting in the woods.

        boy, asadi, you have shit in your hat now.  wait ’til george finds out you have posted under his name without proper accreditation! wayno

Response:

Mike,   Your post should serve as a wake up call to all of us who still have some freedom in fishing.  I am certain if PETA was given a free hand there would be none.

These sort of restrictions -doubtless spawned by humane motivations- would drive me utterly insane. Nothing that Mike Connor has posted on these subjects has done anything than fill me with dread for the future. I have been a Euro-sceptic since the great con of 1974 and that ’scepticism’ has deepened into downright mistrust. I am amazed that such an evidently free spirit as MC can stand it! Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

Tony, these measures are not European measures, but local German measures. There’s no European legislation on sportsfishing (yet). Cheers, Herman These sort of restrictions -doubtless spawned by humane motivations- would drive me utterly insane. Nothing that Mike Connor has posted on these subjects has done anything than fill me with dread for the future. I have been a Euro-sceptic since the great con of 1974 and that ’scepticism’ has deepened into downright mistrust. I am amazed that such an evidently free spirit as MC can stand it! Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

<SNIP Tony, as far as I am aware most of these regulations are specific to Germany. No other European country has such regulations "yet". Germany is continually being cited all over Europe as the "enlightened forerunner" with regard to pollution, animal rights, etc etc. Although I do not know all of the different countries regulations of course. I cant stand it !  But I have no choice, I live here ! TL MC

Response:

Big deal.  I can tie knots that would make ol’ King Gordius proud around my rod which end up requiring the Alexandrian solution. — Bob Jarvis Mail address hacked to foil spammers! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My talent precisely.  In fact, I also seem to have an uncanny ability for tying superb knots with my airborne leader and fly around the very same branch. Bob I’m pretty good at stretching my backcast 1/2" too far to catch the tip of the last branch of the last bush on the bank. I’d say that’s pretty accurate… JonCook. — Fishermen kill fish. This is who we are.

Response:

Well I had to take a second look at my casting when I got and Orvis Trident 6wt. after sending in my PM10 to be repaired (broken tip) They took over a month so they gave me an upgrade in the form of the new Trident. I tried the Trident and decided I liked the PM10 better, it hid my mistakes but when I told the fly shop guy I liked the PM10 better he said most people really don’t know how to cast but if I still wanted a PM10 again I could trade back.   I got slightly offended but decided to give it another chance, I looked back through the magazine casting tips and practiced. I am by no means the best and real instruction would help me alot but I can fish trout here in Colo half a day making 10′ – 30′ then fish bass or whatever using heavy patterns at long distances the rest of the day. I find simple mistakes make a difference like for acccuracy having the right foot forward I look at others casting and many have thier feet together  or they move thier bodies too much during a short cast, or people making too many false casts when going for distance with too much line out to control. Sometimes when everything is working right I don’t have to think about casting, I just do it and it reminds me of some type of dance or martial arts where everything is smooth and rythmic and as fast or slow short or long as it needs to be. Onew thing I know is if you have to work too hard with the right equiptment you are to blame. If not for the guy at the fly shop I would still be making the same mistakes that my teaching myself to cast has caused. Enjoy…     – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -nyroc.rr.com… IMHO, the importantance of casting accurately far exceeds the ability to cast distance. Recently I read an article where the author has that same opinion. However, I’d like to share the authors definition of casting accuracy and hear your comments. Here is the section of the article in which the author provides his/her (author is unknown) definition. Also, note the title of the article: "YOU CAN’T CAST! …. between 70 & 80% of fly fishers just can’t cast. Very simply put … putting the fly where it belongs. The question is…"Can you put your fly where you want it 85% of the time?" If you can’t, then you can’t cast! A good test for casting ability is to put a 24" circle at about 30 feet and see how many times you can put the fly in the circle. The 30 foot range is about the average cast you might make when fishing for trout. Even with a breeze, getting the fly in the circle 9 out of 10 casts is possible". Now I’ve participated in several similar exercises at which there were about 20 flyfishers, guides, casting instructors and fly fishing retailers. I will withhold the results of those experiences until after you ROFFians have a chance to express your opinions. I hope you who reply base your opinions on experience rather then wishful thinking or ego. So let’s hear it. Using typical trout equipment for a medium stream, how many can drop a fly within 12 inches of the center of a 24 inch circle while standing about 30′ away, knee deep or deeper in a stream/river in typical trout season weather? Hi Allan, the author is perfectly correct, as indeed you are. Accuracy is of paramount importance.   We now regularly hold special casting clinics here at one of my local clubs. The first one we held, some years ago, was a cast-in for the whole area, as further instructors were needed at many clubs in order to comply with the German fishing laws that casting skill of a certain level must be achieved before a licence is granted.  We had one hundred and forty three casters taking part on this particular day, all wanting to obtain an instructors certificate. ( The instructors certificate is considerably more difficult to obtain than the licence itself ). This is all honorary, and no financial reward etc is attached to the licence, and it is only valid for instruction at a state fisheries exam so nothing can be made from it either in financial terms. The emphasis is on accuracy, and control. Distance casting is not required. In the accuracy test,  points are given for casting at various distances to a series of rings the inner ring of which is ten inches in diameter, and progresses out to 120 inches in diameter.  The rings are laid out on grass, and carefully measured. The inner ring is ten points, each subsequent ring of greater diameter one point less, and there are five rings. Ten casts are allowed, there is no time limit, or limit on false casts etc.  There are no restrictions on rods, lines leader length etc ( some were using four foot leaders !!! ).The minimum requirement to obtain a fishing licence is 30 points.  The instructors requirement is 45 points.  Of all the gentlemen who cast on this occasion, many of whom had been fishing for a long time, in some cases twenty years and more, and considered themselves good casters, only three, including myself and my wife ( who was the only woman present ), managed to reach or exceed the minimum instructors requirements at first. Many complained that there was a crosswind, and for this reason they were unable to cast. After eleven  casters had cast  ( including myself and my wife ) the complaints were so loud, that the state judges moved the casting blocks so that the relatively slight wind was from behind the casters.  My wife and I and one other caster were asked if we would mind casting again under the better conditions, although we had met the necessary requirements. We agreed to do so.  Many people had also in the meantime apparently complained that my wife and I were using "English methods ", which was unfair !!!!   And now for the results: In the first round ( with cross wind ) I cast 87  and my wife cast 81 points, the other caster who was asked to cast again cast 57 points. No other caster achieved more than thirty points, some missing the target all together. In the second round,  after the blocks were moved, I cast 94 points my wife 87 points, one other gentleman cast 67 points, and only three others reached the minimum 45 points required for an instructors certificate, some in fact not even managing the thirty points required for a normal fishing licence although all those present already posessed one ), and quite a few missing the target altogether. I wish to stress here that this is not a competition, it is a state fisheries law requirement that instructors reach a certain level of expertise, and that would be anglers also reach a minimum of casting skill before being granted a licence. This is of course in addition to the theoretical written exam requirements. The standard of casting was appalling, and many who were certain that they were excellent casters got very pissed off indeed when they saw their actual results.  Quite a few of those present came over to talk to myself and my wife after the exam was over, and wanted advice and instruction.  Several points arose from this: None of those present had had any decent formal instruction, but had "taught themselves", or "been taught by a friend". Most of the equipment in use was mismatched, and in most cases far too heavy for normal trout  fishing, #7 sinking lines and 10 foot rods like broomsticks being fairly common. A few people had fairly decent rods, but the lines were so hopelessly mismatched that it was well nigh impossible to cast with them. Every single one of those present had hopelessly overestimated their abilities, and this was a shock to most of them. We were asked to do a demo for quite a few of the people who stayed around, and strangely enough, although it had just been amply demonstrated to all present that their accuracy and general casting was abysmal, the most asked question was "how can I increase my casting distance". We did a quick survey of those present, ( about forty people ), asking them how far they could cast, and noted the results. These were checked with a tape measure afterwards as each person cast.  Every single person present overestimated their distance capabilities sometimes by twenty feet or even in some cases appreciably more. We set up an area and did a few distance casts with gear I had in the car, and then watched as a few very nearly bust their guts trying to reach anything like the distance.  Only one of those present was familiar with the double haul, and he was lousy at it.  Quite a few others got quite angry, saying I and my wife must be using "tricks" or "special rods " or "lines" or that we were "professionals from England" or something. Over the years in the UK and here I have seen many people casting, and the general standards are awful.  It is a very sobering experience for many to try the exercise you mention in your  post under controlled conditions. What is even stranger is that even lousy casters are proud of their supposed abilities, and get very upset indeed when shown that it is not as good as they would like to believe. A matter of misplaced pride I believe. The reluctance to take lessons, or be shown anything is also rather remarkable. You are more likely to anger somebody by casting better and showing them how, than you are to elicit gratitude. Women by the way being generally far easier to teach than men in my experience. ( I taught my wife as well ). I would imagine that the casting abilities of the average fly-angler in the States is not much better than that detailed above either. I would suggest as well that anybody wishing to improve as an angler should practice dropping his fly into a bucket or similar, or even a hula hoop at various measured ranges up to say forty feet. If you can do this consistently then distance will never be a problem for you, and you will certainly catch more fish. Tight lines ! Mike Connor

Response:

Hi Mike, Can you please explain the reasoning behind this requirement?! Surely, if one is a crap caster, one merely fails to catch many/any fish?! No one suffers, least of all the fish! It’s not like a driving or a flying licence where the safety of the driver/pilot and others is a stake. There is much that I find daft and barmy about German fishery laws (as you have been kind enough to vouchsafe to us): this, not the least of it. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Hi Tony, One of the reasons for the complex fishery laws is the fact that they are also affected by a number of laws not directly connected with actual fishing. Just to give you an example for instance, nobody in Germany under the age of 16 years may hold a fishing or hunting licence, as it is illegal for a minor to be involved in the killing of a vertebrate animal.  This means minors may not go fishing at all except when accompanied by a licence holding adult, and they are still not allowed to catch and dispatch fish. Rights of access are complicated, Animal rights issues, environment conservation, fish recognition, habitat knowledge,  ethics and the law, rights of acquisition, size limits, closed seasons, sanctuary rules, how to kill a vertebrate animal humanely, and a host of other subjects are covered in the theoretical instruction prior to the angling examination. At the moment a minimum of thirty six hours theoretical instruction is mandatory,  and one must of course pass the written test at the end of this. The instruction includes fishery laws, environmental laws, animal rights laws, and a great deal of other stuff. Assuming you do your homework well, and get all the necessary info and literature together, it is possible to manage this in the minimum allotted time, but only just barely. For most people they must reckon with three to six months hard slog before they can take the test. The mandatory instruction is usually carried out on the premises of a local school etc, on the basis of four or five hours, a couple of evenings a week for six weeks or so. Casting and other tuition is extra, depending on the licence one wishes to obtain.  A "normal" fishing licence for general bait fishing requires that you pass several tests and the written exam.  If you wish to go "spinfishing", extra tests and stricter rules are applied. If you want to go fly-fishing, you must first have passed all the other tests, and may then take the fly-fishing test.  Upon passing the tests you have chosen, either one, two or all, you then receive a "Sportfisherpass" as proof that you passed the tests. This must be carried at all times along with the state fishing licence you may then apply for, as well as identification in the form of passport or ID card. The whole thing is very cheap, and theoretically you could pass the exam for as little as thirty marks ( about ten quid )you must then obtain a  licence on the strength of this. These vary from state to state at the moment, as specific fishery laws lie in the hands of federal state government. The licence itself costs about ten quid, and in some states you must pay this every year or at regular intervals. Other country-wide laws override some state laws, but not in all states, and some states laws are different to others. As it happens my licence is valid for life. No clubs will admit anglers to their ranks without a licence, and a "sportfischerpass" which you receive when you pass the exam, detailing the disciplines you have successfully passed . You are only allowed to do the type of fishing for which you have a valid "sportfischerpass"  this includes angling in coastal waters by the way, A sportfischerpass and licence is mandatory everywhere in Germany for residents, even on put and take ponds. Non residents, i.e. Tourists may obtain temporary licences, if they produce proof that they hold or held a licence elsewhere,but they are unlikely to be able to do much fishing as for nearly all clubs now the "sportfischerpass" is mandatory. Some clubs may make exceptions and allow "guests" who are accompanied by a member. This may be in the form of a restricted "day ticket" type of thing, or in some clubs it is free, but whatever the guest catches is subtracted from the members quota. In one of my clubs the yearly quota for a member is a maximum forty fish per year. These may be Salmon Trout Grayling or Seatrout, or any combination of these fish, a maximum of four fish per day is allowed. Takeable fish must be immediately humanely killed and taken. The fishing day must be entered into the "catch book" which is also a mandatory requirement of most clubs, before fishing commences, and this must be carried at all times with the other documents listed above, and with a current copy of the fishery rules, fish taken must also be immediately entered into this book.  Possession of fish not entered is proof of "poaching", and will inevitably result in expulsion from the club, being charged in court, and automatic loss of fishing licence for life. It is considered very bad form to fish yourself when you have a guest, but it is not forbidden. Most other transgressions etc carry heavy punishments, and there are plenty of AR nuts there to make sure every angler who transgresses is dragged into court. The reasons usually given for all this are also complex.  But I will give it a try ! First it must be ensured that every angler is a responsible person, and has sufficient knowledge to carry out his pastime without breaking any laws or injuring anybody else.  In Germany if you damage another person or his property either wilfully or otherwise, you are personally responsible, no matter how the damage came about.  Most sensible anglers in Germany are insured against this, many through their clubs, which obtain special rates, though at the moment it is not mandatory. A certain level of casting expertise, and knowledge of relevant laws supposedly lowers the likelihood of anybody being injured or wrongfully molested. All waters in Germany are divided into contiguous "sections", irrespective of who owns them. Most still waters are considered single "sections", and there are private "put and  take" ponds which are the exclusive property of their owners to do with as they see fit. These sections are leased by the state fishery boards to clubs for a minimum of twelve years, the club being chosen which is in the greater public interest for that area, and local clubs being given first bite at the cherry. The board of owners, ( if several owners own that section), or even the single owner has a very restricted influence on who gets the lease, and also a restricted right to vote on prices etc. All clubs must be open to anybody who has a licence, or their chances of getting any water are zero.  No fishing rights are owned by private individuals. ( Except the put and takes already mentioned ). Some clubs regulate their membership by keeping the prices up, as the club subscriptions are set by the club committee and by general and open vote at the AGM of the club. Clubs may also set any restrictions they like over and above the normal fishery laws, but they may not set any lawful restrictions aside. One of my clubs for instance is fly only on the two rivers we lease, barbless hooks are mandatory, hook size is restricted, multiple hooks are forbidden, one fly only may be used at any one time, no other type of fishing is allowed. Catch and release is generally illegal. Put and take as it is generally understood elsewhere is also basically illegal but is tolerated to some extent, ( the letter of the law states that it is illegal to release a fish purely for the purpose of catching it, this is cruel and unnecessary ), is however under increasing pressure from AR organisations and the "greens" who favour the AR groups. Clubs must have a certain structure consisting of trained and examined personnel, before they can operate or obtain water. This usually means a fisheries officer per/ certain number of members, a bailiff / per certain number of members, an environmental officer, trained and examined fisheries personnel who may then be licensed to use fisheries equipment, such as electro-equipment, a training officer, a chairman, a treasurer, and all the other usual officers found on a committee. The clubs may ask for assistance from the local state fisheries board in some cases,  but are basically responsible for stocking maintaining and supervising the water themselves. Special licences are required in order to carry out certain operations, for instance re-introducing reared fingerling sea-trout, catching and stripping mature sea-trout for the purposes of breeding, and various other operations. All posts in the club are voluntary, and the incumbents are voted in or out at the AGM

Question:

We got an early start on Friday; left Milwaukee at 2 p.m. and managed to find a campsite on the Two Hearted by about an hour after dark.  We looked like something out a Chevy Chase movie.  The Jeep Grand Cherokee had two bicycles strapped onto the rear windshield and a pop-up camper behind.  Jay, Becky, and I had enough gear and supplies among us to last us a great deal longer than the three day weekend we had planned.  This turned out to be a good thing as circumstances caused us to stay a couple of days longer. The High Bridge Campground north of Newberry Michigan has six sites.  We grabbed the first one we saw on Friday night and lucked out.  Site no. 2 sits at the top of a small sand bluff immediately adjacent to the river.  As soon as we got the trailer situated and the engine turned off we could easily hear the water gurgling below us; a most auspicious beginning! Saturday morning Jay and I hit the stream while Becky lounged in camp. We fished it hard for a couple of hours and then met back at camp to compare notes.  Things were not looking good.  Virtually nothing was coming off the water and the fish were in no mood to play with us.  I saw one stone fly, a couple of languid looking caddis, and no mayflies at all.  I found one small rainbow rising in a desultory fashion to something I couldn’t see.  He eventually fell for a well placed EHC and that was the last fish I saw.  Jay did a little better.  He managed half a dozen small rainbows on a bead head hare’s ear.  And this, it would turn out, was to be the most productive fishing session of the trip. Sunday morning found us exploring a bit further downstream.  We took a look at the East Branch of the Two Hearted.  The east branch is a bit smaller than the main branch and Jay found it more to his liking.  We drove a couple miles further up the road to look at Pike Lake.  I was eager to introduce Becky to belly boats and this looked like the place to do it.  We decided to take Jay back to the east branch and then putter around on the lake for a while.  We would pick jay up back at the bridge at 7 or so.  We never made it back to drop him off.  About 3 miles from the bridge I heard a strange noise under the hood of the Jeep.  We stopped and exchanged ideas of where the sound was coming from.  We all agreed that it was coming from somewhere near the top of the engine but that was the best we could do.  Half a mile down the road the power steering failed and by the time I stopped the vehicle the gauges were all over the map.  We opened the hood again and this time there was no doubt where the problem was.  The power steering unit had self destructed. Luckily we had a cell phone.  After a few calls to Newberry we found a towing service with a flat bed that would come and get us.  Unluckily, we were fifteen miles from the nearest paved road.  The wrecker took 3 1/2 hours to get to us.  The intervening time was spent trying to stay away from and to kill as many as possible of THE WORST infestation of horse-flies, deer flies, and those pesky little biters that look just like house flies I have ever seen!  At 95 degrees F., and 90 % humidity we had to stay in the vehicle because it was the only way to control the numbers of flies we were exposed to.  We could either chase them out or kill them with hats or towels or other makeshift fly swatters.  Outside the mob was too big.  Even a constantly waving towel couldn’t keep them off.  We all got many bites! To make a long story short, we had planned to return home on Monday but were forced to stay two extra days while waiting for a new power steering unit to find its way in from the civilized world.  The fish never did bite (water temps were way to high), the flies continued to bite, though with somewhat less vigor as the temperature and humidity fell over the next two days.  We had a couple of lovely thunderstorms and a tornado allegedly touched down with a half miles of us as we sat waiting for a pizza in Newberry on Monday night. Spent a day on the Lake Superior shore hunting agates and enjoyed a great deal more success in this venture than we did fishing.  Not much of a fishing story I’m afraid but it was at least an opportunity to get out of the city for a while.  Everyone enjoyed the outing despite the tribulations. For future reference, it looks like there’s a lot of good water in the eastern U.P.  Will have to give it another try in a cooler season, and definitely recommend the area to anyone who’s never been there.  Big forests, far away from everything. Tight Lines!

Response:

We got an early start on Friday; left Milwaukee at 2 p.m. and managed to

find a campsite on the Two Hearted by about an hour after dark. < <tale of terror and disaster snipped You shoulda fished the Fox. <g

Response:

We got an early start on Friday; left Milwaukee at 2 p.m. and managed to find a campsite on the Two Hearted by about an hour after dark. < <tale of terror and disaster snipped You shoulda fished the Fox. <g

With a ten year old Pathfinder ;^)

Response:

It really nice of you out-of-staters to come and feed the woods critters for us – Several years ago we hiked in from ‘Lone Pine Dump’ and had a great day of fishing – just follow the bear trail

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hire a guide. He will teach you more in one day than you can learn in a year by yourself. sage advise. oh yeah…wear some shoes. stingrays are painful. –Wataugan Walt Another piece of advice, if you gotta void DON’t do it in the water if you are waist deep. Walk to the shore and do it in the bushes. It’s a little known fact, sharks home on human urine. Be sure not to take it out when you are waist deep and go.                                                        John Popp                                                       in Sanford Fl.         john, dammit, you blew it!  here we were, about to complete an honest to god, serious, informative, boring, lifeless thread, and here you come with some witty, lively humor.  we just must purge roff of such trash!         your anal retentive buddy,         wayno wayno

 But I was serious (sob sob). Does no one take me seriously. Now that youve negated my advice by relegating it to humor, don’t blame me if the advice is not taken and the worm is.                                                            John Popp                                                      in Sanford Fl.

Response:

don’t blame me if the advice is not taken and the worm is.

Stop it John! Your killing me! Capt. Gary S. Colecchio West Palm Beach, Florida "Lie ? Me ? Never!  No, no, no, the truth is far too much fun !" – Captain Hook

Response:

Hire a guide. He will teach you more in one day than you can learn in a year by yourself.

Response:

Hire a guide. He will teach you more in one day than you can learn in a year by yourself.

sage advise. oh yeah…wear some shoes. stingrays are painful. –Wataugan Walt

Response:

There are places to wade around there but, as others have suggested, get a guide – at least for a day. Oh, and do wear shoes and shuffle your feet when you walk so you don’t step on a ray. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I’ll be in the Florida Keys the week of Thanksgiving.  I’m hoping to catch my first Bonefish.  However, I know nothing about the Keys or Bonefish.  To further complicate things I’m a relatively new fly fisherman. So any information/tips would be most welcome.  I’ll be staying in Islamorada.  I do not have a boat so I’ll be wading. Questions. 1. Where should I fish? 2. What time of the day should I fish?  Or is it what part of the tide do I fish? 3. Any pointers on fly fishing for bonefish would be helpful. 4. Any dangers I should know about?  Should I wear shoes?  Is there bad things to step on? Many thanks, David PS I heard Harry Harris park is a good place to fish.  Is this true? Also, I’ll have my Golden Retriever along.  Where can I take her when I’m not fishing?

– Charlie…

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hire a guide. He will teach you more in one day than you can learn in a year by yourself. sage advise. oh yeah…wear some shoes. stingrays are painful. –Wataugan Walt Another piece of advice, if you gotta void DON’t do it in the water if you are waist deep. Walk to the shore and do it in the bushes. It’s a little known fact, sharks home on human urine. Be sure not to take it out when you are waist deep and go.                                                        John Popp                                                       in Sanford Fl.

        john, dammit, you blew it!  here we were, about to complete an honest to god, serious, informative, boring, lifeless thread, and here you come with some witty, lively humor.  we just must purge roff of such trash!         your anal retentive buddy,         wayno wayno

Response:

Hire a guide. He will teach you more in one day than you can learn in a year by yourself. sage advise. oh yeah…wear some shoes. stingrays are painful. –Wataugan Walt

Another piece of advice, if you gotta void DON’t do it in the water if you are waist deep. Walk to the shore and do it in the bushes. It’s a little known fact, sharks home on human urine. Be sure not to take it out when you are waist deep and go.                                                         John Popp                                                        in Sanford Fl.

Response:

Hi, I’ll be in the Florida Keys the week of Thanksgiving.  I’m hoping to catch my first Bonefish.  However, I know nothing about the Keys or Bonefish.  To further complicate things I’m a relatively new fly fisherman. So any information/tips would be most welcome.  I’ll be staying in Islamorada.  I do not have a boat so I’ll be wading. Questions. 1. Where should I fish? 2. What time of the day should I fish?  Or is it what part of the tide do I fish? 3. Any pointers on fly fishing for bonefish would be helpful. 4. Any dangers I should know about?  Should I wear shoes?  Is there bad things to step on? Many thanks, David PS I heard Harry Harris park is a good place to fish.  Is this true? Also, I’ll have my Golden Retriever along.  Where can I take her when I’m not fishing?

Response:

Question:

i snapped the tip off my pm . i brought it back to orvis of boston and they gave me another right then and there.i was shocked still

Response:

Jeff Baker: <<i snapped the tip off my pm . i brought it back to orvis of boston and they gave me another right then and there.i was shocked still Why?  Shocked that they honored their warranty?  Or, shocked that they did not send it back to the factory?  There is much bitching and moaning about Orvis on these pages, but there products are superior and their warranties unprecendented.   Dave LaCourse

Response:

Hi Jeff, I’ve alway found the folks at Orvis to provide good service. Glad things turned out for you. Take care & … tight lines – Al Beatty Whiting Farms – Hoffman Hackle Al Beatty2

Response:

Ditto. I use all brands of stuff and like Orvis just fine. Sometimes guys think buying stuff from Orvis is being a yuppie, meanwhile they buy gear that is more expensive from other manufacturers and think they aren’t being snobs because it doesn’t say Orvis. Viva anything that works including ORVIS, ORVIS !!

Response:

You should have asked for a Trident.

i snapped the tip off my pm . i brought it back to orvis of boston and they gave me another right then and there.i was shocked still

Response:

I can vouch for the Boston store. My father died and my brothers and I divided his flyfishing equipment. I took the waders in to the Boston store while traveling to see if they still had the suspenders, which were missing, and to see if the waders could be altered a little. They said no to both, but steered me to the rack and suggested I pick out a new pair. I assumed it was a version of bait and switch (no pun intended), but was shocked to discover they meant – pick out a new pair. My father was a life long Orvis customer, and I will be too. John Tesar

i snapped the tip off my pm . i brought it back to orvis of boston and they gave me another right then and there.i was shocked still

Response:

John Tesar: Great story, John.  You will see folks on this ng bitch ‘n moan about Orvis, but their stuff is good (if pricey) and they do stand behind their product. Dave LaCourse

Response:

John Tesar: Great story, John.  You will see folks on this ng bitch ‘n moan about Orvis, but their stuff is good (if pricey) and they do stand behind their product. Dave LaCourse

    The Orvis dealers I’ve come in contact with are to a man, pretty good people. Being of sound mind and unsound bank account, most items they sell are regretably beyond my means. I do have two reels which I ordered along with the approprate line and backing. When I received them they were all set up ready to go. The gripes I see on this NG are not about quality or service but about the clothing etc. that are in the Orvis shops. Personally "who gives a rats patooty". If that is what it takes to make a shop fiscally sound, it’s better than a "closed" sign and I can walk on by. When ever I am in an area not close to home I search out an Orvis dealer and buy the recomended fly of the day( usually in threes). I’ve yet to be disapointed.                                                              John Popp                                                         in Sanford Fl.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I can vouch for the Boston store. My father died and my brothers and I divided his flyfishing equipment. I took the waders in to the Boston store while traveling to see if they still had the suspenders, which were missing, and to see if the waders could be altered a little. They said no to both, but steered me to the rack and suggested I pick out a new pair. I assumed it was a version of bait and switch (no pun intended), but was shocked to discover they meant – pick out a new pair. My father was a life long Orvis customer, and I will be too. John Tesar i snapped the tip off my pm . i brought it back to orvis of boston and they gave me another right then and there.i was shocked still

_____ I believe those waders came with a lifetime guarantee.  Yet, you are well taken care of and you should stick with those companies that make you satisfied and happy.  If the Boston Store does that for you, amen. I’d stick with them myself if I used Orvis equipment, under your circumstances.   Mr. G.

Response:

My father died and my brothers and I divided his flyfishing equipment. I took the waders in to the Boston store while traveling to see if they still had the suspenders, which were missing, and to see if the waders could be altered a little.

Please, bury me in my waders…I’ll be a needin’ ‘em. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Response:

Please, bury me in my waders…I’ll be a needin’ ‘em.

Our pleasure. Is next Tuesday good for you? ;^)

Response:

My father died and my brothers and I divided his flyfishing equipment. I took the waders in to the Boston store while traveling to see if they still had the suspenders, which were missing, and to see if the waders could be altered a little. Please, bury me in my waders…I’ll be a needin’ ‘em. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "Guilt replaced the creel…"

_____ Tim?  Consider yourself hugged.  Wonderful reply! Mr. G.

Response:

Please, bury me in my waders…I’ll be a needin’ ‘em. Our pleasure. Is next Tuesday good for you? ;^)

______ As a gentleman, that was uncalled for. Mr. G.

Response:

Please, bury me in my waders…I’ll be a needin’ ‘em. Our pleasure. Is next Tuesday good for you? ;^) ______ As a gentleman, that was uncalled for. Mr. G.

Aw, c’mon Georgie! It was clearly denoted as a rib – even you should be able to pick up on that ;^) /dave

Response:

 Please, bury me in my waders…I’ll be a needin’ ‘em. Our pleasure. Is next Tuesday good for you? ;^) ______ As a gentleman, that was uncalled for. Mr. G.

Aw, c’mon Georgie! It was clearly denoted as a rib – even you should be able to pick up on that ;^) << Hey, if that ‘hole diden’t pick up on the first ), the 2d one won’t do any good.  He probably thinks you’re going to steal one of his ribs.  After all, "denoted" is more than one syllable. Your post was perfect.  Only thing I didn’t like about it was that *you* posted it, not me. <g

Response:

Dave LaCourse,I was just surprised of the fact that Orvis exchanged the rod when I brought it in.I’ve been using Orvis products since 1965,fishing mostly with their cane.That exchange just made me feel good, sort of bringing me back to the good old days,when we thought of a company making products for us to enjoy,never thinking how we’re getting fucked like we or I do these days, J Baker.

Response:

good, sort of bringing me back to the good old days,when we thought of a company making products for us to enjoy, I know the feeling, friend.  They have exchanged a number of things for me, no argument, no explanation on my part.  I don’t like it – they exchange it.  I will continue to do business with them. I have been teased by friends on this NG about wearing Orvis driving shoes and driving gloves and hat, and a doggy bed for my good dawg Charlie.  It’s all in fun (I hope).  Orvis HAS gone the way of a yuppie-provider-store, but they still make fine fishin’ stuff and I will always be a customer. Dave LaCourse

Response:

I have been teased by friends on this NG about wearing Orvis driving shoes and driving gloves and hat, and a doggy bed for my good dawg Charlie.  

And I _do_ like the bed<g. I too like Orvis products. Some of their stuff is fluff, but I have had excellent luck with their fishing gear and have some of their luggage that is probably close to 20yrs old, has been around the world (literally) a couple of times, and is still in great shape. I sure wouldn’t hesitate to buy something just because it had their logo on it, not would I buy something simply because it did. FWIW. — Charlie…

Response:

John Tesar: Great story, John.  You will see folks on this ng bitch ‘n moan about Orvis, but their stuff is good (if pricey) and they do stand behind their product. Dave LaCourse

Hi All, Orvis, L.L.Bean, Patagonia and a few others have the reputation of taking care of their customers. Actually, if given the chance, many manufacturers will do something for you if a product does not last or doesn’t work out somehow. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

Response:

Question:

[deleted] Dont kid your self my FFing kin Peta hates you catch and release types as much as the tournament pros. But they have no defensible position against subsistence fishing or hunting or these as a component of wildlife management. Man shall have dominion over the beasts.

True, but they do have money and money buys influence and power. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Marty P.E.T.A   People for the Ethical Termination of Antihunters If we are not supposed to eat animals…then why are they made out of meat?

Response:

– — TimW Halfordian Golfer [deleted] Dont kid your self my FFing kin Peta hates you catch and release types as much as the tournament pros. But they have no defensible position against subsistence fishing or hunting or these as a component of wildlife management. Man shall have dominion over the beasts. True, but they do have money and money buys influence and power.

They do not have as much money as The Church does and that is where I’ll take the case when I am banned from harvesting God’s bounty. TimW

Response:

Man didn’t make it to the top of the food chain to eat grass!!!!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [deleted] Dont kid your self my FFing kin Peta hates you catch and release types as much as the tournament pros. But they have no defensible position against subsistence fishing or hunting or these as a component of wildlife management. Man shall have dominion over the beasts. True, but they do have money and money buys influence and power. — TimW Halfordian Golfer Marty P.E.T.A   People for the Ethical Termination of Antihunters If we are not supposed to eat animals…then why are they made out of meat?

Response:

They do not have as much money as The Church does and that is where I’ll take the case when I am banned from harvesting God’s bounty.

So the Religious Right takes on the AR Wacko’s? Here’s a preview: RR: Man was given dominion over the beasts of the field,        and the birds of the air, and of the fish that swim in the        sea.  They’re ours to use for our benefit, by authority        of Holy Writ. AR: Didn’t someone say, "Thou shalt not kill?".  Nothing was        said about which species, was it?  Huh?  Huh? RR: Don’t get smart with me, tofu-breath!  May I point out that        mankind was cast out of the Garden for eating, not meat,        but an APPLE! AR: Hey, who died and made you God?!?  I don’t have to take that        kind of crap from any wild-eyed, Bible-quotin’ Bambi-blaster! RR: Defiler of Gods Word! AR:  Devourer of the innocent! RR:  Tofu-sucking worm!! AR:  Meat-eating carnivore!! RR:  Slime!!! AR:  Pig!!! <sound of fisticuffs.  Divers alarums and excursions I’ll bring the popcorn.  :-) — Bob Jarvis Mail address hacked to foil spammers!

Response:

Hello, Under "Fishin’ is Fishin’ " this suggestion, that I could tell, brought no support, so I’m trying it under this heading:  "Support each other." Would anybody else care to urge that, in this new year, we all support fish, fishing, and. . .each other?  Your way, his way, her way, their way–of fishing?  Isn’t it all great?  Isn’t it all, after all, OUR WAY? Regards, Jess Thompson

Response:

Jesse: fishin’ is fishin’ and I agree we should support each other even when we disagree ;^). Ralph H – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hello, Under "Fishin’ is Fishin’ " this suggestion, that I could tell, brought no support, so I’m trying it under this heading:  "Support each other." Would anybody else care to urge that, in this new year, we all support fish, fishing, and. . .each other?  Your way, his way, her way, their way–of fishing?  Isn’t it all great?  Isn’t it all, after all, OUR WAY? Regards, Jess Thompson

Response:

Great sentiment but it doesn’t generate much interaction or reaction.  It’s just like the news on TV or in the papers, never any good news like how someone saved another persons life, how a policeman came to the aid of a harrassed citizen, how a ghetto kid scored the highest on his SATs etc.  All we get is bad news & the more sensational the better.  It seems that good news just bores people. Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, Under "Fishin’ is Fishin’ " this suggestion, that I could tell, brought no support, so I’m trying it under this heading:  "Support each other." Would anybody else care to urge that, in this new year, we all support fish, fishing, and. . .each other?  Your way, his way, her way, their way–of fishing?  Isn’t it all great?  Isn’t it all, after all, OUR WAY? Regards, Jess Thompson

Response:

Hello, Under "Fishin’ is Fishin’ " this suggestion, that I could tell, brought no support, so I’m trying it under this heading:  "Support each other."

Sorry, but it’s just too sappy a subject to get much followup, IMO. I mean, really, where do you want it to go ? "I love you Ralph !" "I love you too Moe !" Conflict is *good*, man, it preceeds real progress. Would anybody else care to urge that, in this new year, we all support fish, fishing, and. . .each other?  Your way, his way, her way, their way–of fishing?  Isn’t it all great?  Isn’t it all, after all, OUR WAY?

No… No way in hell will I ever support: 1) Bassmasters 2) Jackson Hole One Fly (or any fishing competition, with the exception of the Martha’s Vineyard Derby) 3) Fern Bar fly shops 4) Wet Golfing 5) Fishermen that do not like to eat fish — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No… No way in hell will I ever support: 1) Bassmasters 2) Jackson Hole One Fly (or any fishing competition, with the exception of the Martha’s Vineyard Derby) 3) Fern Bar fly shops 4) Wet Golfing 5) Fishermen that do not like to eat fish — TimW Halfordian Golfer

I regard to point #5. I’m allergic to fish; does that count? John Knight Sydney FlyRodders’

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No… No way in hell will I ever support: 1) Bassmasters 2) Jackson Hole One Fly (or any fishing competition, with the exception of the Martha’s Vineyard Derby) 3) Fern Bar fly shops 4) Wet Golfing 5) Fishermen that do not like to eat fish — TimW Halfordian Golfer

I do so want you to like me.  I’m safe on 1 to 4 but do I qualify for point 5 if I went to the Thistle yesterday and had fish & chips with a pint of Tartan? Peter

Response:

Absolutely support each other on the water.  Share the pop or beer, give away patterns that are working, occaisionally tell of a relatively well known spot that is fishing well.         But in here, let the melting and melding of ideas and emotion flow freely.  The back and forth of opposing views is a big part of a news group like this.  If this was nothing more than the exchange of information it would lose it’s appeal for me – probably alot of us. JE

Response:

I do so want you to like me.  I’m safe on 1 to 4 but do I qualify for point 5 if I went to the Thistle yesterday and had fish & chips with a pint of Tartan?

Do you practice Zero Retention for Cod ? — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I do so want you to like me.  I’m safe on 1 to 4 but do I qualify for point 5 if I went to the Thistle yesterday and had fish & chips with a pint of Tartan? Do you practice Zero Retention for Cod ? — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Tim Only after a bowel movement. Peter

Response:

Amongst our fellow anglers we may quarrel and disagree at length.  But when it comes to animal rights types (PETA, fund for animals, Pieces etc.) we must stand with the worm dunker and the Bassmaster or shurly we will all fall.  Dont kid your self my FFing kin Peta hates you catch and release types as much as the tournament pros.     Hello, Under "Fishin’ is Fishin’ " this suggestion, that I could tell, brought no support, so I’m trying it under this heading:  "Support each other."

snip

Response:

[deleted] Dont kid your self my FFing kin Peta hates you catch and release types as much as the tournament pros.

But they have no defensible position against subsistence fishing or hunting or these as a component of wildlife management. Man shall have dominion over the beasts. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

Tim W. wrote But they have no defensible position against subsistence fishing or hunting or these as a component of wildlife management.

they dont need a defensible position, there nuts! They think everyone should live a strict vegan lifestyle. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Man shall have dominion over the beasts. Amen. — <snip

Response:

Question:

Hi All, This most certainly has been discussed before, so forgive any repetition. I currently have a pair of rubber coated canvas waders. Eventually these will fail and need replacement…at least that’s what I tell my wife . So far they have held up through two seasons, but you never know…. Does anyone have experience with 5mm vs 3mm neoprene waders? Specifically, what is the durability difference between the two (if any)? Is one more prone to pinhole leaks than the other? What about heat retention? Fishing here in Georgia, we have a much longer warm season than say, Montana, so insulation is not as big a factor. What about fishing from a float tube..wouldn’t the neoprene be better than the canvas? (looking for purchase justification here!! ) Thanks in advance, –John        John Carney          Fly Fisher & Parrot Head

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Fishing here in Georgia, we have a much longer warm season than say, Montana, so insulation is not as big a factor. What about fishing from a float tube..wouldn’t the neoprene be better than the canvas? (looking for purchase justification here!! )

Hell in GA I’d skip the neoprene and go for the Gortex.  I would think that the heat would be more of a problem than the cold.  5mm are very very warm, Xmas of 95, I was in a river with 6" of ice and was comfortable.  They’d probably cook you in Dixie!!! jg

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Does anyone have experience with 5mm vs 3mm neoprene waders? Specifically, what is the durability difference between the two (if any)?

I’ve been using 3mm Simms neoprenes for several years now.  They have remained warm and flexible.  Whatever brand you buy, spend a little more than you can afford. Is one more prone to pinhole leaks than the other?

Pinholes don’t seem to be the main problem, rather leaks at seams, especially when you do a lot of tubing in them. What about heat retention? Fishing here in Georgia, we have a much longer warm season than say, Montana, so insulation is not as big a factor.

3mm keep me good and warm, but early in the season I do wear some Thermax bibs.  During warm season a pair of light thermal pants or silks will help keep you from getting too clammy from sweat.  I got the thinner neoprenes because I figure I can always add extra insulation when it’s cold, but you can’t reduce the insulation of a 5mm wader when it’s hot. What about fishing from a float tube..wouldn’t the neoprene be better than the canvas? (looking for purchase justification here!! )

Even in high summer tubing gets cold, because all the heat eventually gets leeched away, no matter what you’re wearing.  I find that I can last about 3-4 hours at a stretch in 50 degree water before I have to get out and warm up and take a leak.  Only problem I’ve had with neoprenes in my tube is some slight leaking as the seams stretch because I sit in the tube, and the slight chaffing on the upper thigh where the neoprene rubs against the material of the tube. Anglerboy

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This most certainly has been discussed before, so forgive any repetition. I currently have a pair of rubber coated canvas waders. Eventually these will fail and need replacement…at least that’s what I tell my wife . So far they have held up through two seasons, but you never know…. Does anyone have experience with 5mm vs 3mm neoprene waders? Specifically, what is the durability difference between the two (if any)? Is one more prone to pinhole leaks than the other? What about heat retention? Fishing here in Georgia, we have a much longer warm season than say, Montana, so insulation is not as big a factor. What about fishing from a float tube..wouldn’t the neoprene be better than the canvas? (looking for purchase justification here!! )

Hi John, The 3 mil waders will do everything you want them to down to water temperatures of ~42.  Usually below 42 degrees I have to put some mid weight synthetic longs on underneath them.  Above that I use the lightweight synthetic longs to keep any moisture off my skin and keep it between my longs and the waders.  The 3 mil neoprenes will give you the flexibility  you want and the comfort while float tubing.  Take a llok at the Orvis Hi-back 3mil neoprenes ($225) or the bare bones version the Clearwater neoprenes ($98). If it is usually hot most of the time you are fishing, you should check out the breathable waders.  Orvis makes two models.  The No-Sweat wader for $305 which feature a brushed micro-fiber outer fabric, knee pads, and a floating heel (easier to fit various shoe sizes)on the neoprene foot.  They just came out this year with the Clearwater No-Sweat waders for $165.  They are made out of a tightly woven nylon outer fabric, have the standard type of neoprene foot and no knee pads.  Not quite as durable as the premium No-Sweats, but covered with the same guarantee (4 years) and about 1/2 the price of other breathable waders.  Keep in mind that the breathable waders offer no insulation of their own and they don’t stretch.  As long as you layer accordingly underneath for colder weather they are fine, and nothing is more comfortable on a hot day.                          Hope this helps,                                  Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi All, This most certainly has been discussed before, so forgive any repetition. I currently have a pair of rubber coated canvas waders. Eventually these will fail and need replacement…at least that’s what I tell my wife . So far they have held up through two seasons, but you never know…. Does anyone have experience with 5mm vs 3mm neoprene waders? Specifically, what is the durability difference between the two (if any)? Is one more prone to pinhole leaks than the other? What about heat retention? Fishing here in Georgia, we have a much longer warm season than say, Montana, so insulation is not as big a factor. What about fishing from a float tube..wouldn’t the neoprene be better than the canvas? (looking for purchase justification here!! ) Thanks in advance, –John       John Carney         Fly Fisher & Parrot Head

Hi John, The 3mm neoprene is the standard in the industry with 5mm being more durable, warmer and less flexible. For serious float-tubers, 5mm will hold up longer. Gor-Tex is coming on very strong, as this will be the year of the breathable Gor-Tex wader. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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I have been fishing with Orvis Clearwater Gortex waders this year in Minnesota.  Yesterday I went out and it was 15 degrees.  I wore my waders with fleece pants and long underwear.  It was toasty.  In the summer I know they will be a thosand times more comfortable than the 2mm neoprenes I had before. Mike H

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To this thread specifically. I have used Body Glove 5mm’s for the last 8 years. Got some cheap Hodgman 3mm’s for Christmas.   Wished I’d of had the 5mm’s on saturday.  Toes got cold for the first time in 8 years.  They were dry, but cold. Summer heat, the 3s’ll be a godsend. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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Question:

I am new to the midwest and a local suggested I try the Pere Marquette. We live in Chicago, so I thought we’d make a weekend of the trip. I would appreciate the what, when, where, and how’s of fly fishing there for Salmon. Suggested camp grounds would be appreciated, as well as best route from Chicago and approximate travel time. Thanxs in advance, Bryan

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I am new to the midwest and a local suggested I try the Pere Marquette. We live in Chicago, so I thought we’d make a weekend of the trip. I would appreciate the what, when, where, and how’s of fly fishing there for Salmon. Suggested camp grounds would be appreciated, as well as best route from Chicago and approximate travel time. Thanxs in advance, Bryan

                                   * I am a native to MI (at least I am now) and I visit the PM rather frequently. If you email me at home I can give you phone numbers and the like for my favorite lodge.  I really like the Johnsons Pere Marquette lodge.  I have stayed there for only $35-/night midweek during the salmon season.  I don’t know what it is this year.  I now have a cabin of my own up there only 7 min. from the flies only water of the PM.  I suggest that you go mid-week if you can.  If you go, try to find the most inaccessible spot you can.  The river is so full of salmon you can practically walk across on their backs, in any hole in the river.  The trick is finding a place with few enough fellow fishermen that the fish haven’t already been spooked into oblivion.  A drift boat with a guide is an excellent solution if you have the money.  I have not done that yet, though.  The Johnsons lodge is also an Orvis shop (sorry) but they really are nice anyway.  They give away a really good map of the flies only section of the river.  It helps a lot.  Good luck.                                     * Lenny Bloksberg . . .

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Question:

Since I’ve moved to northern Ohio, I’ve witnessed an annual visitation of insects. These little guys are about half and inch long and have barred abdomens. They are often taken for mosquitos, but look more like mayflies (but not a lot like them, either.) They are here now and there is always a big debate about their name. Some call them midges. Some call them buffleheads. Most people call them Canadian soldiers, which angers Canadians for some reason. They don’t seem to be particularly acquatic; you find them on the front porch more often than not. My question is: Has anyone heard of any sustained feeding of gamefish on these bugs? I mean I’ve never read about Lee Wulff fishing the big Canadian soldier hatch on the Cuyahoga River, but that may be the fault of the river, not the insect. How about it? Anyone fish a hatch that resembles this? Maybe I can start a trend of dry fly fishing for sheepshead on Lake Erie. . —

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Clain) says: Since I’ve moved to northern Ohio, I’ve witnessed an annual visitation of insects. These little guys are about half and inch long and have barred abdomens. They are often taken for mosquitos, but look more like mayflies (but not a lot like them, either.) They are here now and there is always a big debate about their name. Some call them midges. Some call them buffleheads. Most people call them Canadian soldiers, which angers Canadians for some reason. They don’t seem to be particularly acquatic; you find them on the front porch more often than not.

They sound more like Uncle Fred so treat them that way.  Next time a bunch hang  out on the porch….give em a beer and see what happens : How about it? Anyone fish a hatch that resembles this? Maybe I can start a trend of dry fly fishing for sheepshead on Lake Erie. .

Never seen the Canadian soldiers in PA…as for a sheepshead hatch…what the h eck….I actually caught them on June-Bugs on a plain hook when I was a kid. Trouble was you couldn’t get them to quit flying toward the light when you trie d to cast!! :  Hope you find out what they are.  The PSU entomological museum will identify critters that are mailed to them.     Scott Maitland

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Since I’ve moved to northern Ohio, I’ve witnessed an annual visitation of insects. These little guys are about half and inch

I always thought they were a strain of mayflies, too; but I was wrong once before in my life, so … My question is: Has anyone heard of any sustained feeding of gamefish on these bugs? I mean I’ve never read about Lee Wulff fishing the big Canadian soldier hatch on the Cuyahoga River,

Well… they actually hatch out in the lake, not in the rivers, so you wouldn’t be fishing a river hatch. If you are out on the lake (erie, for anyone not up on their geography) during this time of year, it can get *real* annoying — there are literally kabillions of these guys all over the lake. It seems like a blanket hatch to me, and I doubt if any fish other than baitfish feed heavily on the insects (that’s why they’re called baitfish, right?) Well, maybe the overgrown gizzard shad that are too big to be eaten anymore. How about it? Anyone fish a hatch that resembles this? Maybe I can start a trend of dry fly fishing for sheepshead on Lake Erie. . —

hmm, a sheepshead taking a dry fly — the telltale indication of a pending strike is seeing the fish turn upside down to get its mouth on top, then there’s the suck, and whoosh, your fly is taken. Then you hang on as the fish dives for the bottom! Who knows, maybe you can be the local host for an episode of "Flyfishing the World". Jon. (A CWRU Alumn)

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