Question:

 The Department eventually adopted 33 of these "suggestions" …..

To clarify – the ODFW angling regulation task force, upon which the Oregon Council FFF has a seat, reviewed 900+ proposals and ultimately forwarded 33 (?) for further consideration by the ODFW and the Fish and Wildlife Commission (the final decision rests with the Commission). AS OF NOW, the Department is recommending *against* catch and release for Davis Lake, and their last minute reasons have come as a complete surprise to the Oregon Council FFF and other clubs.  The Commission will decide the fate of Davis during their September 22 hearing. I’m trying to get my comments in, and need to get my butt in gear and share them with all of you so you can make comments. For those that do not know, this is the first time a task force of angling and other representatives has been put together to pre-filter what has historically been a mass of regulation change proposals (some individuals would submit dozens of changes without demonstrating any broad support).  An early point of contention on the new process is whether the proposals being forwarded by the task force to the commission were being recommended for approval by the commission, or whether the tasks forces only job was to look for proposals that had broad support of any kind, or some reason to be debated further in front of the commission. Evidently some of the angling representatives on the task force felt the former (forwarding meant recommending for approval), and felt caught off guard when the ODFW made contrary recommendations *after* all the public meetings and after the task force had concluded its business. Thomas Gilg

Response:

This will be a news item that would interest those who fish in Oregon (and those of you who visit).  The Federation of Fly Fishers, Oregon Council was able to present 160 rule changes to the Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife.  The Department eventually adopted 33 of these "suggestions" and the principle gain for the fly fishing community was the removal of the harvest on Davis Lake (catch and release only).  In addition to this major proposal, the Department agreed to close the Odell Creek channel form the buoy upstream to the Forest Service road between the east and west campgrounds to protect spawning beds. My thanks to the volunteers at our local chapter, who worked so hard, so we all could benefit from their splendid efforts. Padishar Creel "What do we live for if it is not to make life less difficult to each other."  – George Eliot

Response:

 The Department eventually adopted 33 of these "suggestions" ….. To clarify – the ODFW angling regulation task force, upon which the Oregon Council FFF has a seat, reviewed 900+ proposals and ultimately forwarded 33 (?) for further consideration by the ODFW and the Fish and Wildlife Commission (the final decision rests with the Commission). AS OF NOW, the Department is recommending *against* catch and release for Davis Lake, and their last minute reasons have come as a complete surprise to the Oregon Council FFF and other clubs <snipped

Thomas, thanks for bringing this news up-to-date and correcting the lastest statements from FFF. (I was quoting the __Oregon Fly Fisher Newsletter I rec’d in the mail today).  I am sorry to hear about their recommendation against the Davis Lake proposal, in fact I am stunned.  I am in SW Washington and I would be happy to show up at any meetings you think would assist in getting the Oregon Council proposals adopted.  I purchase an out-of-state fishing license every year, so I believe I have a say here even though I am not a resident of the great State of Oregon. — Padishar Creel "What do we live for if it is not to make life less difficult to each other."  – George Eliot

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Question:

I have a Penn 4-ARG and St croix 12 wt rod to sell. Where can I post it?

Response:

I have a Penn 4-ARG and St croix 12 wt rod to sell. Where can I post it?

    on ebay.  or, if you are lucky, on a fly fishing newsgroup, if you can find one. wayno

Response:

You can post short private ads for personal gear on here, and on other groups. You can also post on e-bay to auction the stuff. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a Penn 4-ARG and St croix 12 wt rod to sell. Where can I post it?

Response:

    on ebay.  or, if you are lucky, on a fly fishing newsgroup, if you can find one.

Or as Forty might say, "ebay ukyoufay." –Steve

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I think you just did. Regards from Montreal John Brkich

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Question:

For great Fly Fishing in Wyoming, contact Paul at Jack Creek Outfitters.

Response:

Is the Matthew Shepard case an isolated one, or most people at Laramie, Wyoming are violent and hatred-charged?  How safe is it for me, an Asian American to visit Wyoming?

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The folks in WY, in general, are about the same as people anywhere.  If anything, most go out of their way to be open and friendly.  There are psychopaths, misfits and criminals in WY just as there are in NY, LA, Iowa, Japan and elsewhere in the world.  Go and enjoy yourself.  You might consider NOT going into a cowboy bar, standing up on a stool and informing the patrons that Wyoming cowboys  are weenies. J. Rice – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is the Matthew Shepard case an isolated one, or most people at Laramie, Wyoming are violent and hatred-charged?  How safe is it for me, an Asian American to visit Wyoming?

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Is the Matthew Shepard case an isolated one, or most people at Laramie, Wyoming are violent and hatred-charged?  How safe is it for me, an Asian American to visit Wyoming?

I’m sad to report that it is not safe at all. Neither is Colorado. I’d go to Montana or Idaho if I were you. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Response:

It depends on where you have Colorado plates on your car. If you come and rent a car don’t get it in Denver with Colorado plates. I get yeld at and get "flipped off" by passing Wyoming folks on my way to fishing in the great windy state. Don’t want a border war over this post but they are a little thin skinned about us "greenees" (Colorado has green license plates) coming up and fishing their waters. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is the Matthew Shepard case an isolated one, or most people at Laramie, Wyoming are violent and hatred-charged?  How safe is it for me, an Asian American to visit Wyoming? Own

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Is the Matthew Shepard case an isolated one,

I live in Wyoming; few people here condone the terrible fate of Matt Shepard. There are many rednecks, but the vast majority aren’t violent. or most people at Laramie, Wyoming are violent and hatred-charged?

Once again, this is (as far as I can see) an isolated event. People here for the most part don’t hate minorities, or want to do vilence to any group, but quite a few have plenty of bias based on sexual preference. How safe is it for me, an Asian American to visit Wyoming?

In my opinion, you’ll be very safe. The criminals who murdered Matt were not representatives of the state. Frank Longtine                           The Second Amendment protects your liberties,   1984 Ford                                 not your hunting rights.       1997 Rokon Trail Breaker                       1993 Specialized Stumjumper Two Good Feet

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Don’t want a border war over this post but they are a little thin skinned about us "greenees" (Colorado has green license plates) coming up and fishing their waters.

Thin skinned?? Hey, I don’t mind you greenies fishing in my home water, so long as you don’t mind the caltrops. Just kidding, friend. Fish here all you like- I’ll welcome you anytime. But I won’t share my honey holes with you. You’ll have to earn them the same way I did- by working for them. Frank Longtine                           The Second Amendment protects your liberties,   1984 Ford                                 not your hunting rights.       1997 Rokon Trail Breaker                       1993 Specialized Stumjumper Two Good Feet

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How safe is it for me, an Asian American to visit Wyoming?

BTW, feel free to e-mail me if you need more info as to where to fish, stay, etc. Frank Frank Longtine                           The Second Amendment protects your liberties,   1984 Ford                                 not your hunting rights.       1997 Rokon Trail Breaker                       1993 Specialized Stumjumper Two Good Feet

Response:

That’s fair. Good spots are to be guarded from slash and burn fishermen and those who can’t keep a secret. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Don’t want a border war over this post but they are a little thin skinned about us "greenees" (Colorado has green license plates) coming up and fishing their waters. Thin skinned?? Hey, I don’t mind you greenies fishing in my home water, so long as you don’t mind the caltrops. Just kidding, friend. Fish here all you like- I’ll welcome you anytime. But I won’t share my honey holes with you. You’ll have to earn them the same way I did- by working for them. Frank Longtine                           The Second Amendment protects your liberties, 1984 Ford                                 not your hunting rights. 1997 Rokon Trail Breaker 1993 Specialized Stumjumper Two Good Feet

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Question:

hi! I’m gonna be in Philadelphia/Cherry Hill on Sunday, Sept. 13th. Would like some guidance on places to fly fish within a couple of hours radius. Or a local fly shop to contact for direction. tight lines, phil joffe

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The Little Lehigh in Allentown should be pretty hot right now. Tricos should be dynamite! I haven’t fished this river in years, but the Fish for Fun stretch off Cedar Crest was always a challenge on humid August Tico mornings. Take 309 north to Allentown. Take Cedar Crest Blvd South and look for signs.

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Question:

Is there any spey rod manufacturer? Most manufacturer call them two handed rods, but they don’t respond to true speycasting, they are too stiff. Are there any soft action two handed rods out there? Does ST.CRIOX make a spey or two handed rod? Remove the * in the e-mail address, this is for SPAM.

Response:

  Is there any spey rod manufacturer? Most manufacturer call them two   handed rods, but they don’t respond to true speycasting, they are too   stiff.

How do you know this?  Have you tried any of these rods to which you refer.  I fish with a friend of mine who uses a sage 1015-3 (a very stiff rod) and he can spey cast like mad – and he can throw sink tips on the end of a double taper with ease.  I think it is a myth to say that you can’t spey cast with a stiffer rod – it’s just not how they used to do it on the river spey because they didn’t have materials to make stiff rods.  Are there any soft action two handed rods out   there? Does ST.CRIOX make a spey or two handed rod?

Yes.  Try the Sage 9140-4.  It is a soft rod, and the rod that I happen to use (and love).  St. Croix makes a pretty nice rod though it seems quite heavy to me – it is reasonably priced though. From your questions, it sounds like you need to get down to a decent shop and put your hands on some rods.  All the talk in the world on this group isn’t going to help. Once again: GO to a decent shop and try some out.  If you live in the Seattle, WA area, I can recommend some places. -tgades — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html NOTICE: DO NOT ADD MY NAME TO _ANY_ MAILING LISTS.  

Response:

Is there any spey rod manufacturer? Most manufacturer call them two handed rods, but they don’t respond to true speycasting, they are too stiff. Are there any soft action two handed rods out there? Does ST.CRIOX make a spey or two handed rod? Remove the * in the e-mail address, this is for SPAM.

try Winston Rods at www.winstonrods.com also Hardy and Bruce and Walker, two English makers have a reputation for making so called true spey rods but you might have a problem sourcing those rods to try. Hardy rods were once popular here in Canada but are now hard to come by as are B&W’s. Some Sage rods are of that type but I don’t know the specifics Ralph H note spurious hyperbole, insults and ‘personal attacks’ made by the author are meant to honour "the Soul of Cicero" and are not intended as personal slights. Please don’t take offense as none is intended. remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

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  Is there any spey rod manufacturer? Most manufacturer call them two   handed rods, but they don’t respond to true speycasting, they are too   stiff. How do you know this?  Have you tried any of these rods to which you refer.  I fish with a friend of mine who uses a sage 1015-3 (a very stiff rod) and he can spey cast like mad – and he can throw sink tips on the end of a double taper with ease.  I think it is a myth to say that you can’t spey cast with a stiffer rod – it’s just not how they used to do it on the river spey because they didn’t have materials to make stiff rods.

since I’ve been interested in Speycasting I’ve heard that there are 2 kinds of double handed rods –  stiff rods for overhead casting and speyrods. I think Mike Maxwell of Vancouver BC and author of "The Art and Science of Speyfishing" coined the term ‘true speyrod’ – to describe his own line of rods I believe.  Other ‘experts’ such as Ehor Boyanowski and the late Roger Turner have said and written much the same thing According to Maxwell ‘true speyrods’ display a compound flex when speycasting (which is something like but not the same as roll casting) like a stylized S but with a big curve at the butt and a small curve at the tip. According to Maxwell stiff rods can’t do this and speycasts can only be ‘approximated’. Turner and Boyanowski have said much the same thing – but as they like Mr Shoalseeker and myself are Vancouver area boys like Maxwell could be we’ve just all been exposed to the same dogma – anyone else have any experience with this particularly in Great Britain and Scandanavia? From your questions, it sounds like you need to get down to a decent shop and put your hands on some rods.  All the talk in the world on this group isn’t going to help.

good advice. Ralph H note spurious hyperbole, insults and ‘personal attacks’ made by the author are meant to honour "the Soul of Cicero" and are not intended as personal slights. Please don’t take offense as none is intended. remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

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This is from an article in "Fisherman’s Handbook" from 1977 which seems relevant to this discussion. Carbon fibre rods were just available when this was written. "Most salmon fly rods today have an action which may be felt through from the heavy tip to the butt. A tip with this fairly rigid action is required because of the need to "mend" the line or straighten it out. This need arises when the strength of the current varies at different points across the stream and the line is pulled into a bow shape as it is carried downstream. this in turn carries the fly back across the flow at an unnatural angle, making it unacceptable to the salmon. The fisherman must then roll the line to mend it as the bow not only presents the fly unfavourably but also lessens the effectiveness of a strike should there be, by any odd chance, a take. A heavy tipped rod enables a weighty length of double tapered line to be lifted off the water and mended with reasonable ease." The article also points out that before carbon fibre, built cane with spliced joints was the favoured choice as it resisted the twisting force better exerted by Spey casting. — Regards Peter (Remove "nospam"to email)

<snip  : :According to Maxwell stiff rods can’t do this and speycasts can only be :’approximated’. Turner and Boyanowski have said much the same thing – :but as they like Mr Shoalseeker and myself are Vancouver area boys like :Maxwell could be we’ve just all been exposed to the same dogma – : :anyone else have any experience with this particularly in Great Britain :and Scandanavia?

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A good spey caster can easily adjust the speed of the casting stroke and use any rod to their advantage.  This distinction between "over head rods" and "true spey rods" is also not particularly useful. In addition to casting characteristics, one should consider what kind of fishing he/she is going to do with a rod. I fish for steelhead in medium to big rivers, and I like to fish lazily. I hate to repeat shooting and striping line. I just roll/Spey cast long line (to me, at least, 70 feet or so) and swing the fly. Step down and repeat the process. It is so easy and efficient. (Effective? I am not sure because I hook steelhead every 30 hours or so.) For this kind of fishing, a slow rod gives me a peaceful feeling. I can enjoy more the surrounding as well as fishing.

- this pretty much agrees with what Maxwell says about stiff overhead rods vs slow rods; they are easier to spey cast and less tiresome to use through the day…. Ralph H note spurious hyperbole, insults and ‘personal attacks’ made by the author are meant to honour "the Soul of Cicero" and are not intended as personal slights. Please don’t take offense as none is intended. remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

Response:

Buy a spey rod from the home of spey casting (Scotland). Esthectically gorgeous, designed and built by reknowned cane rod builder David Norwich. David Norwich Icon Composites Hillside Works, Fountainhall, Nr. Galashiels,  TD1 2SU, Scotland from the USA dial 011 441  578 760 310 – Ken

Is there any spey rod manufacturer? Most manufacturer call them two handed

rods, but they don’t – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -respond to true speycasting, they are too stiff. Are there any soft action two handed rods out there? Does ST.CRIOX make a spey or two handed rod? Remove the * in the e-mail address, this is for SPAM.

Response:

A good spey caster can easily adjust the speed of the casting stroke and use any rod to their advantage.  This distinction between "over head rods" and "true spey rods" is also not particularly useful.  What IS useful is going to a decent shop where you can try (with the guidance of a knowledgable speycaster) several rods which span the range of actions.

I totally agree. If Spey casting is redirected roll casting, as I understand, it can be performed equally well with either fast "overhead/European-style" rods or slow "traditional Spey" rods. You just have to adjust your tempo of casting to the characteristics of a particular rods. I have used a G. Loomis’ very stiff and jerky IMX 8/9 weight 15 footer and a Winston’s soft and smooth 10 weight 15 footer. I prefer the Winston because it is just a joy to roll/Spey cast with it. I would say it is more forgiving. However, I could do with the Loomis everything I can do with the Winston. Actually, I could do at least two thing better with the Loomis than with the Winston. The Loomis could lift more line more easily than the Winston. And it is fun to overhead cast with the Loomis. I could cast further with the Loomis, too. In addition to casting characteristics, one should consider what kind of fishing he/she is going to do with a rod. I fish for steelhead in medium to big rivers, and I like to fish lazily. I hate to repeat shooting and striping line. I just roll/Spey cast long line (to me, at least, 70 feet or so) and swing the fly. Step down and repeat the process. It is so easy and efficient. (Effective? I am not sure because I hook steelhead every 30 hours or so.) For this kind of fishing, a slow rod gives me a peaceful feeling. I can enjoy more the surrounding as well as fishing. — Shinji Unno                     Karaoke Party in Seattle, WA, USA? Also a steelhead fly fisher               http://www.sbkaraoke.com

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     Is there any spey rod manufacturer? Most manufacturer call them two     handed rods, but they don’t respond to true speycasting, they are too     stiff.   How do you know this?  Have you tried any of these rods to which you   refer.  I fish with a friend of mine who uses a sage 1015-3 (a very stiff   rod) and he can spey cast like mad – and he can throw sink tips   on the end of a double taper with ease.  I think it is a myth to say   that you can’t spey cast with a stiffer rod – it’s just not how they   used to do it on the river spey because they didn’t have materials to   make stiff rods.   since I’ve been interested in Speycasting I’ve heard that there are   2 kinds of double handed rods –  stiff rods for overhead casting and   speyrods. I think Mike Maxwell of Vancouver BC and author of "The Art and   Science of Speyfishing" coined the term ‘true speyrod’ – to describe   his own line of rods I believe.  

I’m quite familiar with the dogma, but I’ll stick by my statements. Note however, that I own a sage 9140-4 – the softest spey rod they make.  Partly out of luck, and partly I prefer the slower action.  As I say, my fishing buddy uses a 9150-3 – a very stiff stick – and casts a beautiful and tremendous line.  I don’t know what the hell it means to "only approximate a true spey cast" – nor can I possibly understand how such a notion is useful (especially to a beginner trying to find a new rod). A good spey caster can easily adjust the speed of the casting stroke and use any rod to their advantage.  This distinction between "over head rods" and "true spey rods" is also not particularly useful.  What IS useful is going to a decent shop where you can try (with the guidance of a knowledgable speycaster) several rods which span the range of actions.   Seriously, there is no better advice available than that contained in the previous sentence. As I say, I’d be happy to suggest a shop in the Seattle area. -tgades — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html NOTICE: DO NOT ADD MY NAME TO _ANY_ MAILING LISTS.  

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Question:

Hey guys–there are women on this list who are not "silly blondes" or "chicks."  Could we dispense with the neanderthal mentality and stick to flyfishing?   A smart brunette

Response:

Stereotypes. They’re funny in every direction.  The subject says what it was, if you don’t want to read it, then don’t, if you do, don’t piss and moan. Take responsibility for your actions. Bob

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Hey guys–there are women on this list who are not "silly blondes" or "chicks."  Could we dispense with the neanderthal mentality and stick to flyfishing? A smart brunette

You could always bleach ? — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

Hooks down to size 60!

For what?  The midge egg fly? I’d like to know if anyone out there really sees the need for a size 60 hook!   @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@   "See Dick fly-fish.    See Dick catch fish.    See Dick kill fish."           DON’T BE A DICK!  PRACTICE AND TEACH CATCH AND RELEASE @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@

Response:

  Some of you have mentioned sizes down to 28`s.   Is this U.S size 28? Doesn’t matter.  Size 28 hooks are invisible; however, they are very good for catching imaginary trout on some phantom stream. anglerboy

28’s are an absolute extreme.  There are, however, small midges which are about this size.  A sz. 24 or 26 should be able to catch fish feeding on such bugs, however.  26’s are used for Trico spinner falls here, and 28’s are used late in the year.  The Trico’s themselves are acutually sz. 24’s.  The theory is that the wing material in the 24’s and even 26’s gets bent-back because it is limp and flexable enough that it’s length allows this.  On a sz. 28 and 26, the wing material is shorter so the "bent" wing is lessened.  This is true on fished-over trout. Jason Beary

Response:

Bob ..This joke is totally inappropriate for the fly fishing B-B. Now; If it started off…So this, "Ginky looking" blond pulls up to a hair salon in her "Orvis" Grand Cherokee. She walks in to get a haircut; to look good for the Catch & Release wet Golfers on Moe Skeeters favorite stream. Then add your silly blonde joke..See, much more appropriate!

Response:

Hooks down to size 60! For what?  The midge egg fly? I’d like to know if anyone out there really sees the need for a size 60 hook!   @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@  "See Dick fly-fish.   See Dick catch fish.   See Dick kill fish."      DON’T BE A DICK!  PRACTICE AND TEACH CATCH AND RELEASE @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@

Can anyone see a size 60! Peter

Response:

Bob ..This joke is totally inappropriate for the fly fishing B-B. Now; If it started off…So this, "Ginky looking" blond pulls up to a hair salon in her "Orvis" Grand Cherokee. She walks in to get a haircut; to look good for the Catch & Release wet Golfers on Moe Skeeters favorite stream. Then add your silly blonde joke..See, much more appropriate!

It just so happens that "Ginky looking" means "Good Looking". It also means Goodfellow or he is a good gink.  It also means baby salmon or smolt or fish.  Regarding the intent of the meaning applied t this lost, old, old word that I restored into usage, in our case it means, "Good Fisherman".  It is a word which dresses another in compliments. You’re certainly welcome.  Show me where this blonde is! Mr. G.

Response:

Hey guys–there are women on this list who are not "silly blondes" or "chicks."  Could we dispense with the neanderthal mentality and stick to flyfishing? A smart brunette You could always bleach ?

No good will become a fellow who longs after bleached things. Humble manner… Close shave every Thursday… Spinolio

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bob ..This joke is totally inappropriate for the fly fishing B-B. Now; If it started off…So this, "Ginky looking" blond pulls up to a hair salon in her "Orvis" Grand Cherokee. She walks in to get a haircut; to look good for the Catch & Release wet Golfers on Moe Skeeters favorite stream. Then add your silly blonde joke..See, much more appropriate! It just so happens that "Ginky looking" means "Good Looking". It also means Goodfellow or he is a good gink.  It also means baby salmon or smolt or fish.  Regarding the intent of the meaning applied t this lost, old, old word that I restored into usage, in our case it means, "Good Fisherman".  It is a word which dresses another in compliments. You’re certainly welcome.  Show me where this blonde is! Mr. G. According to Webster gink means a trick, a term of reproach applied to a woman, or a man or boy regarded as odd. Good for you in restoring it’s meaning<g, and good luck with the blonde. Charlie…

In Webster’s New Twentieth Century Dictionary "Unabridged" that is SIX INCHES THICK and printed from 1904 – 1953-4 the word GINK is not listed Charlie.  However; in The Century Dictionary AN ENCYCLOoPEDIC LEXICON OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE copyrighted in 1889, it is listed and referred to as a word of antiquity that is seldom if ever used.  The definitions that I posted are accurrate and are the original historical story of the word ‘gink’ which this works explains of all words.  When first recorded as used . . . several examples how to use the words, etc. Webster, in this case is totally incorrect.  In fact, the word ‘gink’ had not been used in any known literature or newspapers world-wide for a long time.  Attesting to how remote it had been removed from the English language and the use thereof.  You just don’t hear people going around and referring to an endearing gentleman today ans a fine gink of a man. You don’t hear fishermen referring to baby salmon as gink salmon but smolt instead . . . anymore.  My spin on the word in naming Gehrke’s Gink was to revive the word to mean a product that is used by "Good Fishermen" or literally, "Good Gentlemen".  In fact, the name Gehrke’s Gink was so odd at the time of its introduction that anything with a name as crazy as this one . . ."I just have to try it once, has to be good," is what helped endear this world’s best product to a public that at the time didn’t have a dry fly dressing that worked and which was chemically safe.  But that is another story. I love the word GINK!  It is a fun word and I can assure you Charlie, no where in human history in the finest libraries I have been in, does any demeaning definitions of the word occur, until in the most recent times when hundreds of people now have what they think are literally hundreds of differnt meanings . . . because they are putting ‘their spin on the word.’  It is a strange sounding word to the ear, for one thing.  But any old Dictionary Brittanica Encyclopedia has the original meanings still intact.  In fact, just the word ‘Salmo or Salmon’ can cover nearly a thousand words in such a set just explaining Salmon.  GINK are indeed baby smolt, or salmon Charlie.  I’ve been studying this word for over 25 years.  There has never, never been a derogatory definitions to the word until recently.  To the best of my knowledge. The spring salmon are starting to move up the Snake here and the little ginks will soon be searching, once again, the callings of the sea. From one good old Gink to another fine Gink, I remain, Sincerely, Mr. Gink George Gehrke Your friend

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bob ..This joke is totally inappropriate for the fly fishing B-B. Now; If it started off…So this, "Ginky looking" blond pulls up to a hair salon in her "Orvis" Grand Cherokee. She walks in to get a haircut; to look good for the Catch & Release wet Golfers on Moe Skeeters favorite stream. Then add your silly blonde joke..See, much more appropriate! It just so happens that "Ginky looking" means "Good Looking". It also means Goodfellow or he is a good gink.  It also means baby salmon or smolt or fish.  Regarding the intent of the meaning applied t this lost, old, old word that I restored into usage, in our case it means, "Good Fisherman".  It is a word which dresses another in compliments. You’re certainly welcome.  Show me where this blonde is! Mr. G.

According to Webster gink means a trick, a term of reproach applied to a woman, or a man or boy regarded as odd. Good for you in restoring it’s meaning<g, and good luck with the blonde. Charlie…

Response:

Not being a COMPLETE idiot, I said, "Thanks, but hooks aren’t even made that small."  His replie, with a snicker was, "I have a jeweler friend make them up for me." No need for a custom job anymore.  I just saw the first generation of Nano-Tech hooks.  Apparently a joint product development of Tiemco and Orvis.  Down to size 60, I understand.  

At 53 years of age I like to stop at a #20 hook and just try to get the body of the fly a little smaller. On the last week of the 96 season we caught some medium size trout on # 3 weight outfits with 7x tippet and #20 flies. This is about my limit. I know that others go much further down the scale and it is just OK with me. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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Bob ..This joke is totally inappropriate for the fly fishing B-B. Now; If it started off…So this, "Ginky looking" blond pulls up to a hair salon in her "Orvis" Grand Cherokee. She walks in to get a haircut; to look good for the Catch & Release wet Golfers on Moe Skeeters favorite stream. Then add your silly blonde joke..See, much more appropriate!

You’re absolutely correct Nancy.  Please accept this sincere apology. OBROFF: This blond is standing in a creek with some hipboots on and holding a flyrod, whipping it back and forth with obvious growing anxiety… Along comes our friend, Dan Gracia, who…in a very gentlemanly and professional tone asks what the problem is… "I can’t catch any flies", answers our Platinum Pflueger Pflogger. "I think I see your problem", says Dan who reaches into the reel, pulls out the tippet and begins threading it through the guides… "Do you have any flies ?", he asks her "I told you already, I couldn’t catch any…." — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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<snip There has never, never been a derogatory definitions to the word until recently.  To the best of my knowledge.

I am not a scholar of the word GINK, that is true<g. You may want to check out http://liberty.uc.wlu.edu/~hblackme/oed/gink.html which lists some annotated uses of the word gink from 1910 to 1970. I found it by doing a web search on the word ‘gink’. There’s more stuff out there as well. FWIW. Charlie…

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Really, it’s silly.         So a young blonde girl goes into a salon to have her hair cut and sits down in the chair.  The barber/stylist/follicle engineer notices that the young lady is wearing a Walkman and is listening intently to what is coming in through the headphones.  They discuss what style she would like her hair done in, along with the usual pleasantries, and as they go to wash her hair, the stylist offers to take her headphones for her.  To this she replies with wide-eyed panic,"No!! You Can’t!  If I take off these headphones, I’ll die!"  Needless to say this shocked the stylist and she washed the girl’s hair while the girl continued to wear the headphones.         After the washing, the stylist began to cut the girl’s hair and again suggested the she remove the headphones.  Again the girl almost screamed,"No!! I Can’t!  If I take off these headphones, I’ll die!"  So the stylist continued to work and finally couldn’t take it anymore and ripped the headphones off of the girl’s head throwing them to the floor.  The girl sat bolt upright, turned and looked at the stylist with a horrible paniced expression, and fell to the floor convulsing and finally became unconscience.         The stylist went to her and tried to revive her, and as others helped, she couldn’t help but put on the headphones to see what it was that this young, healthy girl needed to hear in order to live.  And from the headphones she heard the steady rhythm of a voice saying," Breathe in, breathe out…" Told ya. Bob

Hmmm…why a blond girl?

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Really, it’s silly.         So a young blonde girl goes into a salon to have her hair cut and sits down in the chair.  The barber/stylist/follicle engineer notices that the young lady is wearing a Walkman and is listening intently to what is coming in through the headphones.  They discuss what style she would like her hair done in, along with the usual pleasantries, and as they go to wash her hair, the stylist offers to take her headphones for her.  To this she replies with wide-eyed panic,"No!! You Can’t!  If I take off these headphones, I’ll die!"  Needless to say this shocked the stylist and she washed the girl’s hair while the girl continued to wear the headphones.         After the washing, the stylist began to cut the girl’s hair and again suggested the she remove the headphones.  Again the girl almost screamed,"No!! I Can’t!  If I take off these headphones, I’ll die!"  So the stylist continued to work and finally couldn’t take it anymore and ripped the headphones off of the girl’s head throwing them to the floor.  The girl sat bolt upright, turned and looked at the stylist with a horrible paniced expression, and fell to the floor convulsing and finally became unconscience.         The stylist went to her and tried to revive her, and as others helped, she couldn’t help but put on the headphones to see what it was that this young, healthy girl needed to hear in order to live.  And from the headphones she heard the steady rhythm of a voice saying," Breathe in, breathe out." Told ya. Bob

Response:

Really, it’s silly.         So a young blonde girl goes into a salon to have her hair cut and sits down in the chair.  The barber/stylist/follicle engineer notices that the young lady is wearing a Walkman and is listening intently to what is coming in through the headphones.  They discuss what style she would like her hair done in, along with the usual pleasantries, and as they go to wash her hair, the stylist offers to take her headphones for her.  To this she replies with wide-eyed panic,"No!! You Can’t!  If I take off these headphones, I’ll die!"  Needless to say this shocked the stylist and she washed the girl’s hair while the girl continued to wear the headphones.         After the washing, the stylist began to cut the girl’s hair and again suggested the she remove the headphones.  Again the girl almost screamed,"No!! I Can’t!  If I take off these headphones, I’ll die!"  So the stylist continued to work and finally couldn’t take it anymore and ripped the headphones off of the girl’s head throwing them to the floor.  The girl sat bolt upright, turned and looked at the stylist with a horrible paniced expression, and fell to the floor convulsing and finally became unconscience.         The stylist went to her and tried to revive her, and as others helped, she couldn’t help but put on the headphones to see what it was that this young, healthy girl needed to hear in order to live.  And from the headphones she heard the steady rhythm of a voice saying," Breathe in, breathe out…" Told ya. Bob

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not being a COMPLETE idiot, I said, "Thanks, but hooks aren’t even made that small."  His replie, with a snicker was, "I have a jeweler friend make them up for me." No need for a custom job anymore.  I just saw the first generation of Nano-Tech hooks.  Apparently a joint product development of Tiemco and Orvis.  Down to size 60, I understand.  Now you can test your dries, emergers, and nymphs on the guppies in your kids’ goldfish bowl (C&R, of course). There are even rumors of a joint venture with a Seattle bio-tech firm for a size small enough to fair-hook a virus. Where will it end? I just heard that the Irish cloners have joined steelhead sperm with with mayfly eggs, and produced a natural fly with a hook already in it. Only the blonde ones work for fly fishing though…they have the hole in the head to tie on to! jg

     Takes a blonde to know a blonde.                                    Harv

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: I was fishing the San Juan a few years ago in the same area as a guide & : his client.  The client was doing considerably better than me, so I : asked the guide what size fly his clients was using. (I think the size : is more telling than the pattern) The guide replied "Size 40." : Not being a COMPLETE idiot, I said, "Thanks, but hooks aren’t even made : that small."  His replie, with a snicker was, "I have a jeweler friend : make them up for me." I used to have some 32’s around – looked like little bronze shavings brushed out of a file. It’s probable that the guy was pulling your leg, but who knows – there may well be some asshole out there selling 40’s by now. Regrettably, I can’t follow a 22 dry in rough water, so doubt that I could even guess where a 40 actually was ;-^) — 3798 Woodland Drive     voice: (250) 368-9315 Trail, BC               data:  (250) 368-9341

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I must say that some of you have really helped me out with my quest for a lightweight outfit.Am now searching for local suppliers of these makes of rod etc,to get an idea of what to go for.Thanks. However,the U.K and U.S must be at cross-purposes when it comes to hook sizes. Some of you have mentioned sizes down to 28`s. Is this U.S size 28? How do you tie flys on hooks this size,I struggle on 22`s?? Are you using ultra light tippets. I thought i fished light with 18-22`s 1.5 pound tippet(Seems not)!! — All things great,come to those who wait. Not always the case,me thinks. K.A.White

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  Some of you have mentioned sizes down to 28`s.   Is this U.S size 28? Doesn’t matter.  Size 28 hooks are invisible; however, they are very good for catching imaginary trout on some phantom stream. anglerboy

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I was fishing the San Juan a few years ago in the same area as a guide & his client.  The client was doing considerably better than me, so I asked the guide what size fly his clients was using. (I think the size is more telling than the pattern) The guide replied "Size 40." Not being a COMPLETE idiot, I said, "Thanks, but hooks aren’t even made that small."  His replie, with a snicker was, "I have a jeweler friend make them up for me." Helpful guy!!! Willi

Response:

Not being a COMPLETE idiot, I said, "Thanks, but hooks aren’t even made that small."  His replie, with a snicker was, "I have a jeweler friend make them up for me."

No need for a custom job anymore.  I just saw the first generation of Nano-Tech hooks.  Apparently a joint product development of Tiemco and Orvis.  Down to size 60, I understand.  Now you can test your dries, emergers, and nymphs on the guppies in your kids’ goldfish bowl (C&R, of course).   There are even rumors of a joint venture with a Seattle bio-tech firm for a size small enough to fair-hook a virus.   Where will it end?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not being a COMPLETE idiot, I said, "Thanks, but hooks aren’t even made that small."  His replie, with a snicker was, "I have a jeweler friend make them up for me." No need for a custom job anymore.  I just saw the first generation of Nano-Tech hooks.  Apparently a joint product development of Tiemco and Orvis.  Down to size 60, I understand.  Now you can test your dries, emergers, and nymphs on the guppies in your kids’ goldfish bowl (C&R, of course). There are even rumors of a joint venture with a Seattle bio-tech firm for a size small enough to fair-hook a virus. Where will it end?

I just heard that the Irish cloners have joined steelhead sperm with with mayfly eggs, and produced a natural fly with a hook already in it. Only the blonde ones work for fly fishing though…they have the hole in the head to tie on to! jg

Response:

Question:

Try rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Sorry can’t help you with the hatch.

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: Folks, : Is there a flyfishing newsgroup? If so, would most appreciate the : address. I can’t seem to get my server to list all the available groups. : Thanks and would really appreciate e-mail. : BTW, anyone know what kind of hatch might be going on at a subalpine : lake (9,000) in western Montana? This for a novel I’m writing. rec.outdoors.fishing.fly rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying

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Folks, Is there a flyfishing newsgroup? If so, would most appreciate the address. I can’t seem to get my server to list all the available groups. Thanks and would really appreciate e-mail. BTW, anyone know what kind of hatch might be going on at a subalpine lake (9,000) in western Montana? This for a novel I’m writing.

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Question:

I am considering a 4-piece Legend 4 or 5-weight. I would be grateful if anybody have some experiences or knowledge to share. The rod is not marketed in Norway, so it is difficult for me to test it personally. Grateful for any comments Jan Erik Frithjofsen

Response:

I am considering a 4-piece Legend 4 or 5-weight. I would be grateful if anybody have some experiences or knowledge to share. The rod is not marketed in Norway, so it is difficult for me to test it personally. Grateful for any comments Jan Erik Frithjofsen

Hi Jan, I’ve found all of the St Croix fly rod to be very good including the 4 piece rods.  I’ve cast several of the their 4 piece rods and liked them but I never paid much attention to the actual name. Sorry! — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

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I am considering a 4-piece Legend 4 or 5-weight. I would be grateful if anybody have some experiences or knowledge to share. The rod is not marketed in Norway, so it is difficult for me to test it personally. Grateful for any comments Jan Erik Frithjofsen

Hi Jan,  I own 2 St Croix flyrods, a 2pc 7′ 3wt, and because I was so impressed with that one, I bought their Imperial Series 4pc 5/6wt. In my opinion, they are a "best buy" for the money. The Legend you ask about is their top-end fly rod, a little more expensive than the Imperial Series. I also own 5 Sage rods, so I have a fair basis for comparison. Considering the cost of a Sage, unless you absolutely have to have the best, the St Croix is the better buy. Now all you have to decide is whether you like the action of the rod. The Legend has a fast action (44 million modulus) while the Imperial is listed as a moderate action (42 mil mod) The difference in price between the Imperial and Legend travel rods is $135 vs $220. BTW, my 5/6 travel rod handled some very tough smallmouth bass this summer with no problems. It rides in my pickup truck behind the seat everywhere I go. Tight lines……. Frank Church Elkhart, IN —

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am considering a 4-piece Legend 4 or 5-weight. I would be grateful if anybody have some experiences or knowledge to share. The rod is not marketed in Norway, so it is difficult for me to test it personally. Grateful for any comments Jan Erik Frithjofsen Hi Jan,  I own 2 St Croix flyrods, a 2pc 7′ 3wt, and because I was so impressed with that one, I bought their Imperial Series 4pc 5/6wt. In my opinion, they are a "best buy" for the money. The Legend you ask about is their top-end fly rod, a little more expensive than the Imperial Series. I also own 5 Sage rods, so I have a fair basis for comparison. Considering the cost of a Sage, unless you absolutely have to have the best, the St Croix is the better buy. Now all you have to decide is whether you like the action of the rod. The Legend has a fast action (44 million modulus) while the Imperial is listed as a moderate action (42 mil mod) The difference in price between the Imperial and Legend travel rods is $135 vs $220. BTW, my 5/6 travel rod handled some very tough smallmouth bass this summer with no problems. It rides in my pickup truck behind the seat everywhere I go. Tight lines……. Frank Church Elkhart, IN —

A correction to my post…the Imperial rods are 33 million modulus, not 42 as stated previously. Frank Church Elkhart, IN —

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Question:

I plan to be in Thunder Bay, Ont. in mid-July. Does anyone have suggestions for places to fly fish for trout or smallmouths?

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I am often up in T-Bay on business and I am looking for good spots too, so if anyone has any ideas? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I plan to be in Thunder Bay, Ont. in mid-July. Does anyone have suggestions for places to fly fish for trout or smallmouths?

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Question:

I am trying to plan my first trip to Alaska for silvers and/or steelhead. Have focused on the Kodiak area for a September trip. The outfitters I am considering are Olga Bay Lodge and Camp Kiklukh. Would appreciate hearing from anyone who has fished with these camps or can recommend a topnotch outfitter that offers quality catch and release flyfishing in Alaska or British Columbia in a remote fly-in location. I’ll be glad to pass on the info I’ve gathered to anyone who is interested.

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: I am trying to plan my first trip to Alaska for silvers and/or steelhead. : Have focused on the Kodiak area for a September trip. The outfitters I am : considering are Olga Bay Lodge and Camp Kiklukh. Would appreciate hearing : from anyone who has fished with these camps or can recommend a topnotch : outfitter that offers quality catch and release flyfishing in Alaska or : British Columbia in a remote fly-in location. I’ll be glad to pass on the : info I’ve gathered to anyone who is interested. : I can shed some light on Camp Kiklukh.  My dad made that trip last year.  He went the last part of August into September.  Now, to give the whole story, he found the claims of having sea run cutthroats, Dolly Varden, and rainbows to be untrue.  He caught a couple of Dollys and *heard* of a cutt being caught. There were not many of these fish around at all.  Now, as far as the silver fishing, he said it was AWESOME! They were taken (by air) to a nearby river, the Tsiu, to fish for silvers.  Many fish in the 12-16lb. range.  Later in the trip, the water levels in the rivers closer to camp came up so the fish were able to get into these rivers. In short, he found this to be a one fish fishery. He reported the food to be excellent and the accomodations very good.  The staff were always around to help and the whole operation was well organized. If you would like some info on some other Alaskan places, please email me. Kind regards, Steve Kernosky Michigan Tech. University

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My hands down favorite river is the Alagnak, which flows into Bristol Bay.  The best outfitter on the river is Charlie Summerville at Alaska’s Trophy Adventures, Box 31, King Salmon, AK, tel. 907-246-8230.  I’ve fished with Charlie many times and caught thousands of fish.  His prices are right, and you have your choice of several wilderness outcamps.  Great guides, great food and great fishing.  Give him a call and say hi for me. Bill Battles

Response:

My hands down favorite river is the Alagnak, which flows into Bristol Bay. The best outfitter on the river is Charlie Summerville at Alaska’s Trophy Adventures, Box 31, King Salmon, AK, tel. 907-246-8230.  I’ve fished with Charlie many times and caught thousands of fish.  His prices are right, and you have your choice of several wilderness outcamps.  Great guides, great food and great fishing.  Give him a call and say hi for me. Bill Battles

Gee Bill, I didn’t know there were steelhead in the Alagnak. Rhea Wood N3489Y C-185 Alaska-Based Floatplane

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Hey, Rhea, you got me good on that one!  I’ll pay more attention to the "Re:" next time. Bill Battles

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