Question:

   Back to the pond today

(snipped) These are lots of fun to read.  Thank you. — rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless remove invalid or hit reply to email. Though I’m very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

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Stan, Do you have a link to a gurgler pattern? Do I have links!

excellent!! Thanks, Rob

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crystal chenille or Estaz body instead of a palmered hackle.

I seldom use anything but crystal chenille or estaz for body material. This includes the gurglers I tie for the huge hoppers we get around here about every other year. Those tied iin size 2/0 have caught 8 pound channel cats off the surface for me. They hove not been out this year, so I guess I have till next year till I die of a heart attack as I battle a huge catfish on a gurgler. I also have enjoyed this thread a hell of a lot. It has been tough for me this year as my favorite bluegill lake was drained a few months ago.  They also drained the lake where I have caught more bluegill that actualy weigh over a pound. Seems like my favorite waters are being ruined by folks that don’t know what the hell they are doing. Big Dale  

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Back to the pond today to worry the panfish population.

<… Todd, I’ve been enjoying your bluegill posts.  I’m a long time bluegill junkie myself – living in a place where the pond is 15 minutes from my door, and the nearest trout water is over twice that (also the only fishable trout water for 3/4 the population of Massachusetts in the summertime…). I went out three days this week, and had three completely different experiences.  There’s a saying about the weather in Massachusetts… Sunday was cold and rainy and the fish just weren’t interested in surface bugs, but I persisted.  I do like to fish subsurface, but I had my 4 wt. and didn’t want to mess with weighted nymphs.  I plugged away with my green gurglers and caught about a dozen fish – missed dozens more.  It was mostly small fish making a big show – coming out of the water to grab the fly, and being to small to take it under water.  I could just leave it sitting next to the rapidly fading lily pads, and several dinks would play with it, until finally a decent fish would make it’s move.  Funny, and lots of fun. I went out again Tuesday.  It had rained steadily all day Monday so I stayed dry and tied up a few more gurglers.  Tuesday was a real change in the weather.  In the mid 80s and mostly sunny.  When I got to the pond at 4:30 there was a huge midge hatch going on and bluegills were rising all over the pond.  So, I got to fish to risers all evening.  These fish aren’t fussy, and I would just plop the gurgler into a patch where there were working fish, and one would immediately jump on the fly.  The bluegills and orange and blue damsel flies were gorging on tiny red midge emergers and adults. The pond surface was almost carpeted by the bugs.  The fish were fat and happy, as was I. Wednesday was different again.  No midges coming off, no surface risers, but the big gills were back in shallow water.  The orange damsel flies were out in number and I switched to an orange gurgler.  Another 30+ fish evening. It’s supposed to be back into the low nineties over the weekend, so I’m looking forward to several more warm evenings out on the pond this week, –Stan

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The orange damsel flies were out in number and I switched to an orange gurgler.  Another 30+ fish evening.

Stan, Do you have a link to a gurgler pattern?  I just hit a local lake this week.  Could only stop by quickly on the way home 2 eves., last night picking up 4 bluegills in 20 minutes.  Two of them were nice sized…about the biggest I can recall catching…although they weren’t large fish.  One was probably about 6" or so and nice and fat.  Thinking about it some more, I’m not sure what type of [sun, pan] fish it was.  Nevertheless, the 2 big ones took hard causing my 4 wt click&pawl to sing for a second or so. — Rob

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Stan, Do you have a link to a gurgler pattern?

Do I have links! Here’s the one I tied for the Dog Days Swaps (hey Paul…). http://gula.org/roffswaps/recipe.php?page=DD2002&id=8 Dale W tied a purple version, and Larry Schmitt tied a bumblebee variant. The ultimate source is Jack Gartside’s page: http://www.jackgartside.com/step_gurgler.htm There are lots of variants.  Most I see for smaller fish use a crystal chenille or Estaz body instead of a palmered hackle.

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        Back to the pond today to worry the panfish population. Had the place to myself early.  Caught 8 on the Chironomid, but seemed the fish were deep.  It’d been cloudy most of the day, and calm.  Sun came out before I got off work, but was still relatively calm when I headed to the pond, and I thought I might get some dry fly action.  Of course, by the time I got there (< 10 minutes), the wind had picked up and no surface action to be seen.  Tied on my last bead-head scud, and picked up 10 more bluegill. Then the action took a break.         About that time, a somewhat scruffy looking young couple arrived on scene.  The guy asked me if the trout were biting (of course, to the uninitiated, fly fishing is for trout… .  Told him I was working the bluegill, and had brought in 18 to that point. He asked how deep, etc.  Clued him in as to what I thought the proper depth was, and he and his wife/girlfriend rigged up their bobber rigs and set about attempting to catch some for themselves.  They didn’t look like they had the proveribal pot to pee in, or a window to throw it out.  Asked me what an "eating size" bluegill would be.  Figured they were there to get some subsistance eats.         Got the bead-head scud hung up in cattails, and lost it. Back to Chironomids.  Went to the opposite side of the pond so as not to worry them with my casting.  Figured out the proper retrieve to connect with fish again, and proceeded to get a good run going.  The couple weren’t having much luck that I could tell, watching out of the corner of my eye.         In the span of about 40 minutes, I brought another 22 bluegill to hand.  Fast and furious action.  Even managed to catch a couple big ones.  Walked over to the couple and handed the two big ones to them, and said "these ought to be good eating size".  They thanked me profusely, and I packed up my rod at that point and went home. Felt a good bit guilty that I was hauling fish out of the water right and left when they weren’t getting much action, and probably in need of some victuals (not to mention releasing all of mine).         I hope they enjoyed the fish dinner.  Know all too well how it was to be young and hungry.  Game & Fish is going to kill out the pond later this fall anyhow and restock it in the spring, so better to give a few fish to someone in need than have them all go to waste, as it were.  Went home feeling good in more than a few ways. Todd

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Question:

My provider has warned me that my account will be suspended, due to my sending off-topic posts, and insults. This is a direct result of Gehrkes lies. A copy of the first post is appended. I can not afford to lose my Usenet access at this time, I need it for my work.  As a consequence, I have no choice but to unsubscribe from ROFF. If you wish to contact me,.please use e-mail. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text —— Original Message —– Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 10:53 AM Hallo Herr Connor, bitte den "Privatkrieg" beenden, hier kommen Beschwerden

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I would like to publicly apologize for slandering and libeling Jump Tarpon in my previous post. NO, I have never fished with him. Nor do I know him personally.Nor have I ever talked to any person that has fished with him. However, I understand he is a great guide with a loyal following, and a great site at www.flyfishing.keywest I picked his web site at random – intent on making someones life more miserable than my own. I confess, after suffering from penial envy for most of my life, I am jealous! At forty-three, I should not be living with my mother. But, life is cruel and I need to focus on changing my wardrobe from lace panties and lurking in shadows to facing the real world as a man. Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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I would <snipped

this is the most gawdamnest advertising strategy i’ve ever seen. lines & business pretty slack in the keys, eh? –waldo

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What kind of fuzzy logic is this piece of SPAM? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would like to publicly apologize for slandering and libeling Jump Tarpon in my previous post. NO, I have never fished with him. Nor do I know him personally.Nor have I ever talked to any person that has fished with him. However, I understand he is a great guide with a loyal following, and a great site at www.flyfishing.keywest I picked his web site at random – intent on making someones life more miserable than my own. I confess, after suffering from penial envy for most of my life, I am jealous! At forty-three, I should not be living with my mother. But, life is cruel and I need to focus on changing my wardrobe from lace panties and lurking in shadows to facing the real world as a man. Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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Ditto!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would like to publicly apologize for slandering and libeling Jump Tarpon in my previous post. NO, I have never fished with him. Nor do I know him personally.Nor have I ever talked to any person that has fished with him. However, I understand he is a great guide with a loyal following, and a great site at www.flyfishing.keywest I picked his web site at random – intent on making someones life more miserable than my own. I confess, after suffering from penial envy for most of my life, I am jealous! At forty-three, I should not be living with my mother. But, life is cruel and I need to focus on changing my wardrobe from lace panties and lurking in shadows to facing the real world as a man. Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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I think he’s trying to sell lace panties to fisherman. In that case, I’ll take two. Chris Fleitman Fisherman by nature-goofball by society.

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Funny that, I didn’t even bother to read the original post but I’m lost – especially about the bizarre ones that follow this directly –  frodo etc. Sorry chaps (actually I think you ,frodo jump tarpon et al] are really all the same one) but your strategy is so odd and obtuse that I couldn’t care less what you say about each other, or is that about yourself?  You are confusing me with someone who gives a damn! Right on Ernie and Walt!! DBJ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would like to publicly apologize for slandering and libeling Jump Tarpon in my previous post. NO, I have never fished with him. Nor do I know him personally.Nor have I ever talked to any person that has fished with him. However, I understand he is a great guide with a loyal following, and a great site at www.flyfishing.keywest I picked his web site at random – intent on making someones life more miserable than my own. I confess, after suffering from penial envy for most of my life, I am jealous! At forty-three, I should not be living with my mother. But, life is cruel and I need to focus on changing my wardrobe from lace panties and lurking in shadows to facing the real world as a man. Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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What kind of fuzzy logic is this piece of SPAM?

I think maybe it’s a setup for an ad for lace panties, in which case I suggest we do everything to encourage further posts.  Always wondered what they felt like.

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What kind of fuzzy logic is this piece of SPAM? I think maybe it’s a setup for an ad for lace panties, in which case I suggest we do everything to encourage further posts.  Always wondered what they felt like.

Ask TimBone ;^)

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I think maybe it’s a setup for an ad for lace panties, in which case I suggest we do everything to encourage further posts.  Always wondered what they felt like. Ask TimBone ;^)

Ouch!  That was hard!  God I love this place! W

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Question:

I’ve got Chesapeake Light Craft Boats and Pygmy Boats Inc. Does anyone have other kit makers for wood/fiberclass ocean boats? Any experiences good or bad with building a wood boat? Annie Oakley’s Casting & Blasting Page, shooting and fly fishing links: http://members.tripod.com/~AnnieOakley/CastAndBlast.html "Web Poison"–FREE anti-spam software:http://www.e-scrub.com/wpoison/ Phoney Spam-Bot Link: http://www.e-scrub.com/cgi-bin/wpoison/wpoison.cgi

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Nomad Sea Kayaks.  I have been told they make a good kit. http://www.clic.net/~nomad/ Mark

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Nomad Sea Kayaks.  I have been told they make a good kit. http://www.clic.net/~nomad/

I was considering one when I bought my kayak but couldn’t find anyone that knew anything about them. They are also fiberglass only, not wood/fiberglass.   The Guillemott boats (wood) look interesting as well: http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/ I saw a boat in shop in Duck, NC (outer banks) a couple of weeks ago.  It had a fiberglass hull with a wood deck with wood hatch covers.  I have no idea what kind of kit it was built from but the owner of the shop built it and was selling it for $450. Seemed like a real good deal. John Fereira

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You guys are foolin’ yerselves about the Jeep Cherokee.  It has the absolutely most abyssmal maintenance record of just about any vehicle on earth, 4WD or otherwise. This is Consumer Reports talking..check it out for yourself.  I have known so many disgusted Cherokee owners (well 2, specifically…) that I would not touch one with a 10 foot 12 weight. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

I understand that the Cherokee was never built on a truck chassis, a remanufactured car chassis was used. As for me, my 1978 4×4 Chevy Blazer with 264,000 miles with tattered seats but Michelin radials provides me with all the back country access I could ever want.

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Another dissatisfied Cherokee (1988) owner here.  To be fair, I purchased mine just before American Motors was purchased by Chrysler.  Anyway, the engine crapped out before 50K miles, and it had been cared for in a manner better than was recommended in the owner’s manual.  Also, I had an extended warranty on the vehicle (paid extra for of course).  Anyway, the "adjuster" from Chrysler reviewed my claim and disallowed it because "it was obviously abused or it wouldn’t have had the problem."  Went round and round, countless letters, I replaced the engine (at my cost) and vowed I would never purchase another (now) Chrysler product, ever!!  Later, I read in a news account about the numbers of Jeeps that had similar problems.  I now have a Toyota 4Runner, with no complaints after 90K+ miles.  Change the oil every 3K miles, follow recommended maintenance, new gas once a week and air the tires once a month.  It runs and runs and runs….. — Ron Eaton – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You guys are foolin’ yerselves about the Jeep Cherokee.  It has the absolutely most abyssmal maintenance record of just about any vehicle on earth, 4WD or otherwise. This is Consumer Reports talking..check it out for yourself.  I have known so many disgusted Cherokee owners (well 2, specifically…) that I would not touch one with a 10 foot 12 weight. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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Your brother’s pickup reminds me of a 1970 Datsun pickup I bought in 1980 for $500.  The speedometer had broken at 100K and it was beat up, but the engine purred like a kitten.  It was the same engine they used in the 280Z sports car.  I fixed the dents, slapped a coat of paint on it, installed some shocks, king pins, tires, and a set of brakes, then took it fishing all over the Sierra Nevada Mountains in Northern California for the next ten years.  It went every place a road crossed a trout stream.  There wasn’t much head room and I kept the seat belt tight because the overload springs could put your head through the roof, and I didn’t lean on the door because a sharp bump could put the window crank through your rib cage, but it was a great fishing vehicle.  Finally sold it to a guy for $500 who wanted it for his gardening business. — Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   My brother Paul drives the ultimate fish car. He has a go anywhere, tough as nails, fix it yourself, park it and don’t worry, $700 1967 Ford pickup. The vehicle has panache, driving to the river in it gives me a feeling of adventure

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Could it be that the people who have trouble with Jeeps are the people who actually take them off road?  I know for a fact that the Nort Carolina beaches will wreak havoc on some vehicles!

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Could it be that the people who have trouble with Jeeps are the people who actually take them off road?  I know for a fact that the Nort Carolina beaches will wreak havoc on some vehicles!

I used to take mine off road but don’t so much anymore since I got my D90. The Cherokee did OK off road though. FWIW. Charlie…

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Driving on a salt water beach will raise hell with most vehicles unless you hose it down thoroughly with fresh water when you are through.  We drove down the beach in Northern California to go smelt dipping and perch fishing with a jeep, but always hosed it down and never had a problem.  Of course this was in 1948.:-) — Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Could it be that the people who have trouble with Jeeps are the people who actually take them off road?  I know for a fact that the Nort Carolina beaches will wreak havoc on some vehicles!

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Sorry this message is not related to 4X4’s (but I will be driving a 98 Dodge real soon) rather I wqs wondering if anyone from Alberta"Canada used this newsgroup? And I am in the market for a new 4-5 weight 81/2 foot rod? Any good sug?  Anyway…have fun and may the trout rise…(corny).

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You guys are foolin’ yerselves about the Jeep Cherokee.  It has the absolutely most abyssmal maintenance record of just about any vehicle on earth, 4WD or otherwise. This is Consumer Reports talking..check it out for yourself.  I have known so many disgusted Cherokee owners (well 2, specifically…) that I would not touch one with a 10 foot 12 weight.

Hell I drive a Taurus Sedan myself. It pulls up nicely to the lots that are only a few steps or a short walk down into the stream I seen a neat little comic about 4 wheel drive, something in the order when the guy was ready to pull out of a supermarket, he felt it was time to put it in 4 wd to go over a speed bump.  Sounds like most of the 4wd’s in our area…. — Randy P.E.T.A. people eating tasty animals

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If you want a reliable vehicle buy a Toyota 4WD pickup — Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – While we are back on this, I would recommend looking into the V6 Chevy S-10 Blazer to find a great 4 WD.  $1000 to drop a new engine in at some point (around 120K miles), $600 new ball joints around 150K and that sucker will run forever.)  By one that is used, if you can find someone who will sell one. T. Rick Fletcher  

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My "fish car" is a five year old Toyota 4X4 pickup. Total maintenance costs (so far) consists of oil, filters, and one set of tires. Goes anywhere and always starts.   My wife drives the hated Grand Cherokee. I’d take it fishing if she’d let me, it’s more comfortable and more powerful than my Toyota, and the stereo really cranks. I think the Jeep straight six is one tough motor, it’s the niggling details (power windows, A/C) that keep it in the shop.   My brother Paul drives the ultimate fish car. He has a go anywhere, tough as nails, fix it yourself, park it and don’t worry, $700 1967 Ford pickup. The vehicle has panache, driving to the river in it gives me a feeling of adventure, we’re going FISHING by golly, and we ain’t a couple of downtown dudes in a goll-dern Range Rover. Charlie, going shopping for a beater.

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You guys are foolin’ yerselves about the Jeep Cherokee.  It has the absolutely most abyssmal maintenance record of just about any vehicle on earth, 4WD or otherwise. This is Consumer Reports talking..check it out for yourself.  I have known so many disgusted Cherokee owners (well 2, specifically…) that I would not touch one with a 10 foot 12 weight. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Tim Somehow you didn’t strike me as one who would fall for the hype in CR. You don’t really believe that crap that they spew do you?

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I bought my Grand Cherokee Ltd. in June of ‘94, fully loaded, for 30K (The Toyota Land Cruiser is 40+ K).  Have kept up routine maintenance.  Two major problems have been solved by warranty service.  I got exactly what I thought I’d get.  A luxury ride no matter where I go.  It’ll go anywhere any of the vehicles already mentioned will go. I’ve got the funds to enjoy it, so why shouldn’t I.  Eat your hearts out.                                                            -dnc-

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  I bought my Grand Cherokee Ltd. in June of ‘94, fully loaded, for 30K (The   Toyota Land Cruiser is 40+ K).  Have kept up routine maintenance.  Two   major problems have been solved by warranty service.  I got exactly what I   thought I’d get.  A luxury ride no matter where I go.  It’ll go anywhere   any of the vehicles already mentioned will go.

If this vehicle is so great, why are you bothering to defend it on this anonymous forum?  A 2 year old vehicle with "2 major problems" – by what crazy definition is that a good investment or vehicle?  I’ve got the funds to enjoy it, so why shouldn’t I.  Eat your hearts out.

I didn’t realize that it is required that one has to be a complete ass to buy one of these.   Take this crap over to the 4×4 newsgroups.  It is of no relevance to flyfishing. -tgades — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html email: replace the "this_address_is_wrong" with "tgades"

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You guys are foolin’ yerselves about the Jeep Cherokee.  It has the absolutely most abyssmal maintenance record of just about any vehicle on earth, 4WD or otherwise. This is Consumer Reports talking..check it out for yourself.  I have known so many disgusted Cherokee owners (well 2, specifically…) that I would not touch one with a 10 foot 12 weight.

I don’t read CS but I have an ‘87 Cherokee that is the most trouble free vehicle I have ever owned. Don’t know much about the newer ones but I do know that CS doesn’t have a very good reputation on rec.autos.4×4. YMMV of course. — Charlie…

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You guys are foolin’ yerselves about the Jeep Cherokee.  It has the absolutely most abyssmal maintenance record of just about any vehicle on earth, 4WD or otherwise. This is Consumer Reports talking..check it out for yourself.  I have known so many disgusted Cherokee owners (well 2, specifically…) that I would not touch one with a 10 foot 12 weight. I don’t read CS but I have an ‘87 Cherokee that is the most trouble free vehicle I have ever owned. Don’t know much about the newer ones but I do know that CS doesn’t have a very good reputation on rec.autos.4×4. YMMV of course. — Charlie…

Consumer reports bases it’s ratings on reader responses – ie if you complain to them. Phil Edmonstons "Lemon Aide" guide uses the manufacturers own Maintenance service bulletins that advise dealers exactly what sort of problems are being reported from the field. However this guide is generally negative on the Cherokee. Phil likes to say when confronted by experience like yours Charlie: "goes to prove you can’t always make a bad car!    " Ralph H remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

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Tim, I’ve got a Cherokee that’s a few years old and I’ve had zero problems with it.  The big concern with me was the apparent thinness of the brake rotors that had to be replaced if they were turned too much by over-enthusiastic repairmen.  The 1996 models have thicker rotors that withstand the turning a lot better.  All the Jeep owners that I know love them and the only dis-satisfied owners I know, 3, were Grand Cherokee owners. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is Consumer Reports talking..check it out for yourself.  I have known so many disgusted Cherokee owners (well 2, specifically…) that I would not touch one with a 10 foot 12 weight. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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: I know exactly how you feel.  The funny thing is, I drive a sport utility : vehicle (the loathed Cherokee – actually the cheapest vehicle in it’s : class) – living in Maine, the 4wd comes in very handy, especially getting : to back-county brookie waters.   While we are back on this, I would recommend looking into the V6 Chevy S-10 Blazer to find a great 4 WD.  $1000 to drop a new engine in at some point (around 120K miles), $600 new ball joints around 150K and that sucker will run forever.)  By one that is used, if you can find someone who will sell one. — Rick

Rick, I sold my V-6 Blazer with 139,000 miles to help pay for my Jeep with 50,000 on it.  I owned the Blazer for 9 years, that was long enough.  In the last two years, new ball joints, radiator, gas tank, etc., etc., but never touched the engine or tranny.  I saw the buyer the other day and he said it’s going great. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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You guys are foolin’ yerselves about the Jeep Cherokee.  It has the absolutely most abyssmal maintenance record of just about any vehicle on earth, 4WD or otherwise. This is Consumer Reports talking..check it out for yourself.  I have known so many disgusted Cherokee owners (well 2, specifically…) that I would not touch one with a 10 foot 12 weight. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : I know exactly how you feel.  The funny thing is, I drive a sport utility : vehicle (the loathed Cherokee – actually the cheapest vehicle in it’s : class) – living in Maine, the 4wd comes in very handy, especially getting : to back-county brookie waters.   But isn’t a Lmtd. Ed. Grand SuperDuper Cherokee available?  That’s the one many of us laugh at… and it’s not because it is a waste of metal, it is a pretty automobile… it’s because the idea of taking a leather upholstered, shiny $40,000 car into the mud is silly.  And many view it as posing.  Expalin the number of HumVee’s cruising around Sun Valley… While we are back on this, I would recommend looking into the V6 Chevy S-10 Blazer to find a great 4 WD.  $1000 to drop a new engine in at some point (around 120K miles), $600 new ball joints around 150K and that sucker will run forever.)  By one that is used, if you can find someone who will sell one.

  I will entertain $10,000 for my 87  ;-) Harry

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: I know exactly how you feel.  The funny thing is, I drive a sport utility : vehicle (the loathed Cherokee – actually the cheapest vehicle in it’s : class) – living in Maine, the 4wd comes in very handy, especially getting : to back-county brookie waters.   But isn’t a Lmtd. Ed. Grand SuperDuper Cherokee available?  That’s the one many of us laugh at… and it’s not because it is a waste of metal, it is a pretty automobile… it’s because the idea of taking a leather upholstered, shiny $40,000 car into the mud is silly.  And many view it as posing.  Expalin the number of HumVee’s cruising around Sun Valley… While we are back on this, I would recommend looking into the V6 Chevy S-10 Blazer to find a great 4 WD.  $1000 to drop a new engine in at some point (around 120K miles), $600 new ball joints around 150K and that sucker will run forever.)  By one that is used, if you can find someone who will sell one. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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: I know exactly how you feel.  The funny thing is, I drive a sport utility : vehicle (the loathed Cherokee – actually the cheapest vehicle in it’s : class) – living in Maine, the 4wd comes in very handy, especially getting : to back-county brookie waters.   I too have the loathed Cherokee.  I took a lot of ribbing from my father when I bought it.  He has a pickup.  It ended when I showed him what I paid.  Compared to his full-sized pickup, the Cherokee was practically cheap. I spend a lot of time in the backcountry, can only afford one automobile, and need more passenger space than a pickup. I shopped around, and the Cherokee (not the GRAND Cherokee) is the best value around. Sure, if you never take it off road, you might as well buy a minivan.  Although have you seen the prices on mini-vans – EEK maybe that’s why SUV’s are so popular? My $0.02,      - Ken — Ken Janik Oregon State University Dept of Electrical and Computer Engineering

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. . .  it seems like fly fishing is just another political party. When is the last time that you saw a magazine picture of a fly fisherman in regular clothes with a rod that he got at K-mart? This isn’t to down-talk fly fishing, I love it, but every influence says that it isn’t fly fishing unless you drive a yuppified sport utility with Eddie Bauer, LL Bean or some other clothing manufacturer’s name on the side of it, wear waders,

People who take their fishing values from pictures are like people who value their food according to how it looks in pictures.  Most fly anglers are thinking people, and what thinking person rates enjoyment (music or mountaineering) by photographs? — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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 Its Bryce back to stir up trouble With all of the pictures and other influences, it seems like fly fishing is just another political party. When is the last time that you saw a magazine picture of a fly fisherman in regular clothes with a rod that he got at K-mart?

Yup, I have to confess. Back in 87 my wife and kids gave me a K-Mart Browning 8 1/2 ft. 6 weight for my birthday. It was kinda of hard to act surprised in a good way but I believe I pulled it off. Now I love that rob and there’s not a dab of cork on the thing. I’m off to the Cherokee National Forest next week and guess which rod’s going along——it’s already in the, well, Cherokee. Cheers, Randy Giles

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Hello.  Its Bryce back to stir up trouble With all of the pictures and other influences, it seems like fly fishing is just another political party. When is the last time that you saw a magazine picture of a fly fisherman in regular clothes with a rod that he got at K-mart? This isn’t to down-talk fly fishing, I love it, but every influence says that it isn’t fly fishing unless you drive a yuppified sport utility with Eddie Bauer, LL Bean or some other clothing manufacturer’s name on the side of it, wear waders, have a rod that costs 200 dollars. Oh, and I forgot that it is impossible to catch fish unless you have every new thing on the market. I kno tha there are some who are in it to have a chalenging way of catching fish, but alot of the "fly fishers" are just yuppies. I can tell that most in this newsgroup are not that way, so I want your input. Thanks. BryceC

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Hello.  Its Bryce back to stir up trouble . When is the last time that you saw a magazine picture of a fly fisherman in regular clothes with a rod that he got at K-mart? This isn’t to down-talk fly fishing, I love it, but every influence says that it isn’t fly fishing unless you drive a yuppified sport utility with Eddie Bauer, LL Bean or some other clothing manufacturer’s name on the side of it, wear waders, have a rod that costs 200 dollars. your input. Thanks. BryceC

I know exactly how you feel.  The funny thing is, I drive a sport utility vehicle (the loathed Cherokee – actually the cheapest vehicle in it’s class) – living in Maine, the 4wd comes in very handy, especially getting to back-county brookie waters.  And yes, after 20+ years of fishing with a Shakespeare I bought at K-Mart, it started coming apart at the ferrule, and I went to Beans’s outlet and bought a marked-down Guide rod.  I did have an earlier thread complaining that I’m hard pressed to see the improvement over the Shakespeare, fine equipment can be had without spending a lot of money.  As for the waders, I skip them in the summer, but if I’m not in a boat or canoe this time of year, the water’s too cold without them. The thing that really sets me apart, though, is I still eat trout on occasion. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Question:

Next week I’m finally taking that trip up the Little Kern to Golden Trout country that me and my fishing buddy have been talking about for two years.  Plan to take the forks of the Kern Trail down to the forks, then pack in from there for a couple of days.  Anyone have any useful info for fishing the area this time of year.  Flies, good campsites, etc.? —                                                            -dnc-

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Next week I’m finally taking that trip up the Little Kern to Golden Trout country that me and my fishing buddy have been talking about for two years.  Plan to take the forks of the Kern Trail down to the forks, then pack in from there for a couple of days.  Anyone have any useful info for fishing the area this time of year.  Flies, good campsites, etc.?

Years ago I fished the main stem of the Kern, from Junction Meadow up to Lake South America–very similar countryside to where you’re going.  (I accessed the area from the Whitney Portal trail.)  As I recall, there were good campsites just about everywhere.  I was in my attractor fly phase, and I caught tons of rainbows and goldens using mainly just a bi-visible.  I’d fish a fly until it was chewed beyond recognition, tie on another, and keep catching them.  I even kept on catching them during an afternoon thunder shower (ducking under a tree during the worst of it, then continuing after the lightning had moved up the canyon).  These were wild fish, and they weren’t at all picky.  You can probably get by using generic sorts of attractors: Adams, Humpy, bi-visibles, hare’s ear nymphs, zug bugs, PTs, etc., and some black Muddlers for lakes.  Smaller sizes are probably best. What I remember best was the bear that I saw one morning.  I had fished upstream a considerable distance from my camp on the opposite side of the river, when a black bear ambled by on the far side, heading upstream.  He never saw me, until I let him get a couple of hundred feet above me, and I whistled.  The bear stopped, looked around a moment, until he spotted me.  We held eye contact for a moment, then he continued on.  Since he’d come from the direction of my camp, I was concerned, but there was not much I could do after the fact–so, angler that I am, I kept on fishing.  Later, I crossed over, and back tracked the bear toward my camp.  I was amazed to discover that the bear’s tracks had made a wide circle *around* my camp, in an obvious attempt to avoid contact with humans (that would be me, such as it is). Understandable, certainly, but I never counted on that happening again. Even though my next day’s hike took my upstream also, I didn’t spot the bear again.  (And, oh yes, I have had California black bears in camp, trying to get my food, on other trips.  Usually they’re pretty benign; shouting, banging pots and pans, throwing rocks will run them off.  I insanely chased a bear out of camp one morning.  I chased him up to the top of a hill.  I was stone out of breath, he was still fresh, and acted like he wanted to play some more.  I skedaddled.) The moral of this story is to always exercise the best "bear discipline" you can while in bear country; and you’ll catch lots of fish, too. Enjoy your trip, Anglerboy — Trout fear me, Women want me. http://www.midtown.net/~angler/

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Question:

Hello I have a Caddis Float Tube and fins.  I have been reading about these force fins.  Where can I get more infor on these fins.  I belong to two Fly fishing Clubs in Cincinnati and I think the membership might be interested in these fins. Hope to hear from someone soon. Thanks for your help Keith Haungs Buckeye United Fly Fishers Northern Kentucky Fly Fishers

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Keith;         Cabela’s sells force fins at a reasonable (albeit still expensive) price.  My wife bought me some a couple of years ago and I love them.                   Dennis – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hello I have a Caddis Float Tube and fins.  I have been reading about these force fins.  Where can I get more infor on these fins.  I belong to two Fly fishing Clubs in Cincinnati and I think the membership might be interested in these fins. Hope to hear from someone soon. Thanks for your help Keith Haungs Buckeye United Fly Fishers Northern Kentucky Fly Fishers

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Question:

Anyone have the conditions on the stream.  I expect to be in Deposit in three weeks and sure would like to hear from someone who’s been there.

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east & west branches are very low ,as is the main branch. Right now march browns are hatching, in a week or so I expect to see Green drakes. The first release is not scheduled untl 6/15. If we don’t get some rain soon fishing will be seriously affected. I will be spending a few days there at the end of the week ,will report on conditiions

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: east & west branches are very low ,as is the main branch. Right now march : browns are hatching, in a week or so I expect to see Green drakes. The : first release is not scheduled untl 6/15. If we don’t get some rain soon : fishing will be seriously affected. I will be spending a few days there at : the end of the week ,will report on conditiions I was on the fly stretch just below Deposit last night.  Very low is right. We got there about 7:00pm, and there was a blizzard of caddis coming off in the riffle just below the main parking access.  Some hendricksons and march browns.  We got into one of our favorite spots and the fish were in a frenzy.  They seemed to be hitting on emergers, since swarms of fish would roil the surface, and you couldn’t see any flies.  Casting into the roils didn’t produce too well.  Eventually, we tried some no hackle hendricksons with a white parachute, and then the action was great until dark.  My partner had a better spot, I think, and is a better fisherman. He caught 5 in half an hour, I had 3.  Largest 16". Also, I heard that the march browns are hatching on the main branch where the water is a little warmer, but the hendricksons are still on the west branch. That’s only word of mouth though. -Jeff

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Question:

Before I begin this trip report I would like to thank the following folks who provided much useful information via e-mail that helped me to plan Jeff Bryson, Nic Lyons, Lyle Nichols, Kief Hillsbery, Tim Medley, Ed Zalta, Keith Price.  I would also like to thank the park rangers, but I can’t, because what little information they provided was either badly out of date or just plain wrong.   Day 1:  Arrival Loaded the VW in a cold drizzle in San Francisco.  Fortunately, this was the most weather we would see the entire trip.  Arrived at South Lake at 4:30 pm and stashed the bike.  Got to North Lake trailhead parking at 5:00. Had shocking realization that I had left all coffee apparattus at home.   Searched the car and came up with one cotton sock, slightly used.  It would have to do.  Hit trail and hiked for 1 hour to Lower Lamarck Lake.  Made camp in a luxurious site on the east shore.  From campsite we thought we could see Lamarck Col, our next day’s destination.  Fortunately, we were way wrong as we were looking up at the very steep snow field on the north face of Mt. Lamarck.  Went to sleep beneath billions and billions of stars.  (Who needs a tent in the Sierra?)  Everything went fine until the brightest goddamned moon I have ever seen came out and rioted around the lake.  Maybe a tent would have been a good idea after all. Finally fashioned eye shades and nodded off. to be continued… -Matt Spitzer

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Day 2 (Monday, September 6):  Darwin Canyon via Lamarck Col Awoke very early to get morning reflection shots of Mt. Lamarck on the lake. Then I made my first attempt to make coffee using my sock/drip maker.  It wasn’t very successful, as the sock tended to soak up all the boiling water and scald my fingers.  Off to a fine Alpine start (10:00 am) we headed up the trail to the upper Lamarck Lake and then  took the made, but unmarked trail up to the Col.  About 4 miles (I’m guessing) and 2,000 ft later we arrived at the foot of the Col, a little winded (yeah, right).  We hadn’t known what to expect, so we had brought along ice axes.  As it turned out, the snowfield on the Col was so rutted out by people’s foot tracks that there was a waist high wall on the downhill side to prevent us from falling.  At the top (12,900) we had great views of the Piute Crags and the lovely town of Bishop to the North and Glacier encrusted Darwin Peak and the gorgeous (literally) Darwin Canyon to the South and West.  After a brief break Minio shot head first down the slope into Darwin Canyon.  I followed behind, enjoying an occaisional plunge step in some loose stuff.  We arrived at the highest lake and then it was a simple walk, much of it over boulders ranging in size from a tv sets to VW buses, down to the lowest lake where we made camp, exhausted. Fishing in the lake was poor for golden trout to 8", but scenery was excellent. Scenery became even more intese at sunset when alpenglow lit the back wall of the canyon and everything glowed orange.  That night many billions of stars, some shooting, and several sattelites came out to play, until the friggin’ moon came out and drove them off. Day 3:  Darwin Canyon to Evolution Basin This morning I devised an improvement to the coffee maker.  I propped open the end of the sock with two crossed twigs and suspended the whole thing from a string tied to the twigs.  Using my new Hane’s drip maker I was (theoretically) able to make my morning cup of Guatemalan love juice without losing any layers of skin from the fingers.  However, the water goes through the sock much too quickly, resulting in an underextracted brew.  This was remedied by soaking sock in cup like a tea bag, but final squeeze scalds fingers again.  Packed up camp and countoured through Darwin Bench and around west slope of ridge extending from Darwin Peak.  From this slope we get excellent panoramic vista stretching from Evolution Valley to Evolution Basin including many snow packed peaks.  Minio and I reach consensus that Evolution Valley has been much over-hyped, as it is a rather unimpressive low stretch of bear country, lined by rather unimpressive walls. Evolution Basin, and the peaks to the south and east, by contrast, is glorious.  The slope we are traversing is itself a thing of beauty, covered with blooms of columbine, shooting star and numerous other flowers including some kind of onion-thing.  Eventually we work our way down toward Evolution Lake, but come to an impass where we have to do a little free climbing (50 ft of 5.4 at most) and then we are home free.  On our way to the lake we observe that if we had just gone up once more we could have waltzed down to our present position without any climbing at all.  By the shores of the stunningly beautiful Evolution Lake we join the John Muir trail and soon come across a trail crew, busily filling in the old trail and planting shrubs along its course. The new trail they have built for us is a work of art, a veritable super highway through the High Sierra. After a brief foot-soaking break by the lake’s edge we are off.  Leaving the lake we hike beside a small cascading stream up to Saphire Lake where we make camp.  In faithful observance of Labor Day Minio breaks out his copy of International Trotskyist and begins reading.  I head back down the stream that connects the two lakes and begin fishing at 4 pm.  By 6:30 I have fished my way back to our campsite in failing light, having caught and released 72 golden trout ranging from embarrasingly small to 10 inches on dry flies. A note about small goldens:  they are incredibly stupid.  About the only thing I could do to disuade them from hitting was to badly drag the fly against the current.  They never seemed to mind the fact that I fished right through a hatch of small brown mayflies with a #10 Cream Wulff.  That evening we slept out of the fairly stiff wind in a rock shelter that Minio built by the North shore of the Lake while I fished.  The whiskey bottle is already getting dangerously empty. to be continued… -Matt Spitzer

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Question:

I like to use spoons for Northern fishing, I have good luck with little Cleo spoons ( silver ). Johnson weedless spoons are nice for getting into the weeds. Another choice are the rattling raps. Do not fish for the Walleyes my self ( I am a transplant ). Good luck

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| I have just accepted an invitation to go to Western Ontario in July to fish | for Walleye and Northern Pike in a fly in lake close to Armstrong, Ontario. | I have never fished for those fish and would like some first hand advice on | the lures that are most productive for these fish. I have several catalogs | that have lures for these fish, but I have no idea what colors to use or | anything else. Could some of you people in MN or WI give me some advice on | what I should bring with me. One other question, I have seen several | crankbaits in those books that are advertised for Walleye. Would medium to | deep running cranks I use for bass work?   | | Ray D. Johnson – Texas Eastman Co. B1, Box 7444, Longview TX 75607 | UUCP: …{allegra,rutgers}!rochester!kodak!ektools!txtc01!s884896 | X.400 ADDRESS:    C=US A=MCI P=KODAK DDA=ID=ECDVM1.L836644   Rapalas (floating, count-down, shad-raps) in silver/black and gold/black.  A few daredevles in red/w and 5 of diamonds.  Some jigs and rigs for use with live bait like minnows and leeches.  A few plastic mr twisters or fuzzie grubs to go on the jigs.  If there are smallmouth, throw in a couple of tiny torpedos. — Del Cecchi  

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ines: 17 {

{14 pound wallie on my wall caught with a little minnow on a hook. { {Stephen In our state using live minnow is illegal. What is the best bait for wallies other than a live minnow?

Nothing beats a leech. — G.

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I have found the best bait for wallies is a hook and a live minnow.  The minnow must be alive, if it’s dead so is your fishing.  Take a minnow net with you and in the early morning drag it through a weed bed and you should get plenty of minnows for the day.  I know this sounds like a pain and if you don’t do it I don’t blame you.  But take one just in case the artificials don’t do the trick and your skunked after four days.  I have a 14 pound wallie on my wall caught with a little minnow on a hook. Stephen

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{ { {I have found the best bait for wallies is a hook and a live minnow.  The {minnow must be alive, if it’s dead so is your fishing.  Take a minnow net {with you and in the early morning drag it through a weed bed and you {should get plenty of minnows for the day.  I know this sounds like a pain {and if you don’t do it I don’t blame you.  But take one just in case the {artificials don’t do the trick and your skunked after four days.  I have a {14 pound wallie on my wall caught with a little minnow on a hook. { {Stephen In our state using live minnow is illegal. What is the best bait for wallies other than a live minnow? -GF-

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| { | { | {I have found the best bait for wallies is a hook and a live minnow.  The | {minnow must be alive, if it’s dead so is your fishing.  Take a minnow net | {with you and in the early morning drag it through a weed bed and you | {should get plenty of minnows for the day.  I know this sounds like a pain | {and if you don’t do it I don’t blame you.  But take one just in case the | {artificials don’t do the trick and your skunked after four days.  I have a | {14 pound wallie on my wall caught with a little minnow on a hook. | { | {Stephen | | In our state using live minnow is illegal. What is the best bait for wallies | other than a live minnow? | | -GF- In the summer, leeches are better than minnows and they don’t die as fast.  They can even be mail ordered I think.  They also work great for smallmouth bass. — Del Cecchi  

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – { { {I have found the best bait for wallies is a hook and a live minnow.  The {minnow must be alive, if it’s dead so is your fishing.  Take a minnow net {with you and in the early morning drag it through a weed bed and you {should get plenty of minnows for the day.  I know this sounds like a pain {and if you don’t do it I don’t blame you.  But take one just in case the {artificials don’t do the trick and your skunked after four days.  I have a {14 pound wallie on my wall caught with a little minnow on a hook. { {Stephen In our state using live minnow is illegal. What is the best bait for wallies other than a live minnow? -GF-

but is plastic, some with flavor enhancements…not sure on the flavor though…….Also, smaller plastic worms like super-do’s….get the pearl color or silver/black……caught a 5 lb walleye on the silver/black one. Good luck… — Digiboard 6400 Flying Cloud Drive Eden Prairie, MN  55344        

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have just accepted an invitation to go to Western Ontario in July to fish for Walleye and Northern Pike in a fly in lake close to Armstrong, Ontario. I have never fished for those fish and would like some first hand advice on the lures that are most productive for these fish. I have several catalogs that have lures for these fish, but I have no idea what colors to use or anything else. Could some of you people in MN or WI give me some advice on what I should bring with me. One other question, I have seen several crankbaits in those books that are advertised for Walleye. Would medium to deep running cranks I use for bass work?  

I recently went on a trip similar to the one you are planning.  My father, brother and I spent Memorial Day weekend on Lake Esnagi, Ontario.  This is a large lake north of Wawa, Ontario and is accessable only by plane.  I had never been walleye/northern pike fishing in Canada so I bought crankbaits, daredevils, steel leaders; the works.  It was a waste of $40.   The only thing you will need to catch walleye, or at least the only thing anyone at our lodge used, is 1/4 ounce jigs with a Mister Twister body and a live minnow hooked through the lips.  We caught over 100 walleye on this rig (all released).  Our guide landed an 8.5 lb. walleye on 4 lb. test line with this combo the week before we arrived.  You just work the jig along the rocks until you feel a slight tug, wait a few seconds for the fish to take the contraption into its mouth and set the hook.  Most of the fish we caught schooled up during the afternoon and started feeding around 5:00 pm.  They were all off of rocky points and in 20-40 ft. of water. As for the pike, we caught a few of them mixed in with the walleye.  The guys at the lodge claim that the smaller pike (24 – 30 in.) travel and feed with the schools of walleye.  The best way to go after the larger fish was to work shallower coves that had plenty of cover (large rocks, fallen timber) with large daredevils in red & white or five of diamonds (yellow with five red diamonds).  The weedbeds hadn’t come in when we were there, but working these areas would be productive also, according to our guide.  The other method people used to catch larger pike was to bait a large hook with smelt or perch (frozen) and use about 6 ft. of line under a bobber.  They would drift past points and in the coves with this rig and wait for the bobber to slowly move under water.  I was told that larger fish "cruise" the coves and points for baitfish and will only take bait.  This paid off for a couple guys, one of them caught a 12 pounder!  I never tried it. Enjoy your trip and good luck.

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I have just accepted an invitation to go to Western Ontario in July to fish for Walleye and Northern Pike in a fly in lake close to Armstrong, Ontario. I have never fished for those fish and would like some first hand advice on the lures that are most productive for these fish. I have several catalogs that have lures for these fish, but I have no idea what colors to use or anything else. Could some of you people in MN or WI give me some advice on what I should bring with me. One other question, I have seen several crankbaits in those books that are advertised for Walleye. Would medium to deep running cranks I use for bass work?   Ray D. Johnson – Texas Eastman Co. B1, Box 7444, Longview TX 75607 UUCP: …{allegra,rutgers}!rochester!kodak!ektools!txtc01!s884896 X.400 ADDRESS:    C=US A=MCI P=KODAK DDA=ID=ECDVM1.L836644

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