Question:

Do you really think that selling fly reels is the "public welfare"?< Well, it’s in MY welfare and last time I checked, I was a member of the great unwashed public.

THIS IS NOT MY POST!!!!!   I DID NOT POST THIS Check for your self.  I might be a lot of things-  but I would NEVER post under anyone else’s name.  Look Ken F.  I’m laughing like a dawg at a lot of this,  but YOU were cool to me when a few others dogged my ass…   Don’t you let this fool you. I can play games w/ the best of’em-  but the bastards better play fair-  ’cause  I sure as hell know how to fight dirty-   You see for your self.   I am nothing if not loyal to my own ethic.  You may not understand that ethic-  BUT  look around and see…   I made one hell of a mark fer a new scum bag.   Do I EVER not sign my posts? The primary concern of the individual should be that of becoming ‘diluted’, more specifically- Delusion. That shit is NOT RIGHT!!!!] The real BRUCE post Outta be 200 lbs of low grade CHUM!!!!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – THAT wasn’t the question Bellows.  The question was, why aren’t the shop carrying all our other products because the are so good. Now THAT, is a good question. Finally, this isn’t a question of me/us/ making money to pay many people their rightful wages and livelihood.  It is a question of "SERVICE" being provided at the retail level.  We make more money for Distributors and Retailers then what we profit by at the lower food-chain level of capitalism.  I hope you remember that in your regard Mr. Bellows.  I’m not the injured party here.  It is the retail shop owner and the American Fly Fisherman that are the injured party because the Retailer isn’t looking out for your interests and finally, not his own.

george, get over yourself.  there are plenty of other products that compete with your products that are just as good, if not better.  while it’s all well and good that you are proud of your products, and i would expect nothing less from a business owner, you must realize that other people’s products are damn good… and that if a fly shop decides to carry them instead of your products, they are doing what they feel is best for THEIR customers.  i frequent a shop that doesn’t sell many of your products… do i feel short shafted?  HELL NO.  if i thought i’d gain by using your flyfuzz (or whatever the hell it is) vs. the naturals and synthetics i allready use… i’d let the owner know and have him order me some.  i’m not losing out on diddly, no matter how much you think so.  same with your dubbing wax.  if i thought i absolutely had to have it, i would.  george, it’s friggin wax for christ’s sake.  i can’t imagine my tying would be so much better with a different kind of wax, no matter what gerke propoganda you choose to use. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thank you for your comments.  If you haven’t tried a NEW tube of FLY-MAKER’S WAX then you may not know what you are missing as a fly tier, for instance, nor any of our other products. George Gehrke/President Gehrke’s Outdoor Fly Fishing Products. Visit: http://www.gink.com MAY I SUGGEST THAT THOSE WHO cannot get our products at their local fly shop MAY ORDER FACTORY DIRECT at the same retail level (and sometimes less).  WE want to get any or all of our products into everyone’s hands, no matter what it takes. Please visit the capitalistic pig’s WEB SITE ABOVE.  or here : http://www.gink.com/ Read about what we can do for you.  If you want to truly protect your fly lines for instance, TRY our PZ fly line dressing and cleaner.  It is the best in the world.

when you call everything you make "the best in the world" my bullshit alarm starts screaming. EVERYTHING is guaranteed.  I defy everyone not to like anything we make.  

well, i’m not a huge fan of gink.  it’s allright, but not divine.  i enjoy trying out lots of different products… some work well, some don’t.   We happen to have the world’s best Guarantee also.  It seems to never end – this quality of products we make.  We are in a very Special Field of this Industry.

blah, blah, blah, propoganda, blah, blah, blah….lol chris

Response:

THAT wasn’t the question Bellows.  The question was, why aren’t the shop carrying all our other products because the are so good. Now THAT, is a good question. Finally, this isn’t a question of me/us/ making money to pay many people their rightful wages and livelihood.  It is a question of "SERVICE" being provided at the retail level.  We make more money for Distributors and Retailers then what we profit by at the lower food-chain level of capitalism.  I hope you remember that in your regard Mr. Bellows.  I’m not the injured party here.  It is the retail shop owner and the American Fly Fisherman that are the injured party because the Retailer isn’t looking out for your interests and finally, not his own. Thank you for your comments.  If you haven’t tried a NEW tube of FLY-MAKER’S WAX then you may not know what you are missing as a fly tier, for instance, nor any of our other products. George Gehrke/President Gehrke’s Outdoor Fly Fishing Products. Visit: http://www.gink.com MAY I SUGGEST THAT THOSE WHO cannot get our products at their local fly shop MAY ORDER FACTORY DIRECT at the same retail level (and sometimes less).  WE want to get any or all of our products into everyone’s hands, no matter what it takes. Please visit the capitalistic pig’s WEB SITE ABOVE.  or here : http://www.gink.com/ Read about what we can do for you.  If you want to truly protect your fly lines for instance, TRY our PZ fly line dressing and cleaner.  It is the best in the world. EVERYTHING is guaranteed.  I defy everyone not to like anything we make.  We happen to have the world’s best Guarantee also.  It seems to never end – this quality of products we make.  We are in a very Special Field of this Industry. Very Special. gg

Response:

Otherwise  L.R.  I don’t know what else to do.  Every fly shop that carries all our products grosses several thousand dollars a year or more.

george, you’re the only one making lots of money of gink, xink, and your wonderful wax… how many bottles of gink must a shop sell to make thousands of dollars<G?

Response:

_______ Everyone needs to have a heart to heat with their local pro shop.  Each Pro Shop that orders some of our other products they don’t carry, gets free samples of everything we carry that they can sell at full retail which is around thirty – $50 dollars worth of pure profit. Take this into your local retail outfitter and show them this offer.  If anyone has any other idea, I’m for it.  I’ll donate a whole box full of products for your favorite fly fishing club or person in need.  Each person that gets a fly shop to order two or more new products they haven’t tried with us yet, gets a complete set of FISH-FUZZ.  This is around $66 worth of free, deadly, streamer, wet fly, tying material in dazzling colors. Otherwise  L.R.  I don’t know what else to do.  Every fly shop that carries all our products grosses several thousand dollars a year or more. We move a lot of product that takes care of the majority of most fly fisherman’s needs world wide, but we could do a lot better Mr. Trout. You are certainly correct about this. Thanks for your support.  It is an excellent fly tying wax at that. Sincerely, george gehrke Used your fly tying wax for the first time this evening tying up some Golden Ribbed Hare’s Ears.  Best wax I’ve ever used.  How come so many places only carry Gink and not your other stuff? L. Baird

–

Question:

I like mine as light as possible. Just had to……

Response:

Does anyone have an opinion about the best type of boot/sock combo for portaging and keeping your feet dry on a Boundary Waters/Quetico type trip during the summer?

        After long consideration (and posting of the same question years ago), I’ve concluded there is no perfect answer. Sandals can be great for allowing you to jump out of the canoe off of a bad landing in deeper water, but are crap for ankle support on rocky portages, or negotiating blow-downs, limbs, etc. (And what about the danger of a splinter under the toenail?) High boots would seem to be the ticket, but there’s the weight and they can tend to be hot. Really choice seems to be support or dryness. One thing I’ve thought about is a pair of those jungle boots guys had in Vietnam

Question:

I head into the hospital for ACL reconstruction of my left knee this morning and am out of business for the next 5 to 6 months.

I had my left knee done last October, the right one done in December and was on the water again in April. Had the lakes been open, I might have been fishing even sooner – the Doc told me a kickboat would be excellent  therapy. In any case,  good luck with the surgery. Regards, Dennis Smith Loveland, CO Dennis Smith Loveland, CO

Response:

Well it is time to hang up my fly rod for the year.  I head into the hospital for ACL reconstruction of my left knee this morning and am out of business for the next 5 to 6 months. Mike

 Mike, Here’s wishing you a successful visit to the hospital, and get over it quickly. Good luck. Regards from Wales. — Bill

Response:

Well it is time to hang up my fly rod for the year.  I head into the hospital for ACL reconstruction of my left knee this morning and am out of business for the next 5 to 6 months. Mike

– Mike, Good luck with your surgery and we’ll be sure to save some fish fer ya… –Walt

Response:

Well it is time to hang up my fly rod for the year.  I head into the hospital for ACL reconstruction of my left knee this morning and am out of business for the next 5 to 6 months.  All of you flyfishing nuts will have to make sure and post your adventures to the newsgroup so that I can at least read about flyfishing. All was not lost for the year, I did get the opportunity to catch a 20 pound Rainbow Trout two weeks ago.  Definetly the highlight of my fishing life. Unfortunately, August was the wrong month to get the Gerrard’s in Kootenay Lake on a fly rod so will have to go back in April or May and attempt to get one. Have fun and enjoy the rest of your Summer! Mike

Mike: Sorry to hear about the knee problems. What kind of reconstruction are you having?  I had patellar graft reconstruction on my left knee 6 years ago and have been *extremely* happy with the result. You might even find that you could still get some fishing in this season.  By three months post-op, I was doing a lot of the things I wanted to, just being careful. Best of luck to you.  It is amazing what they can do to repair things these days. Bob

Response:

Well it is time to hang up my fly rod for the year.  I head into the hospital for ACL reconstruction of my left knee this morning and am out of business for the next 5 to 6 months.  All of you flyfishing nuts will have to make sure and post your adventures to the newsgroup so that I can at least read about flyfishing.   All was not lost for the year, I did get the opportunity to catch a 20 pound Rainbow Trout two weeks ago.  Definetly the highlight of my fishing life. Unfortunately, August was the wrong month to get the Gerrard’s in Kootenay Lake on a fly rod so will have to go back in April or May and attempt to get one. Have fun and enjoy the rest of your Summer! Mike

Response:

Question:

I’ve attended two of last three Denver shows (‘95 & ‘97).  It’s going be a tough call as to which trade show to attend for 1998;  Denver or Salt Lake….Attending both can stretch a small budget.  I’m passing to see how this whole political matter shakes out. I received letters from both Orvis & Umpqua indicating they will not attend EITHER show.  The lists I’ve received about both shows’ attendees shows a heavier representation of the major rod companies at Salt Lake City Show.  My feeling is more people are favoring Salt Lake.

I’d say that Orvis doesn’t need to attend.  They have a huge network of shops, and lodges, and strong mail order operation.  They hardly need to do another show. Umpquah, I’m not so sure about.  While they still seem to be the number one supplier of flies, I can help but wonder about their solvency in the present market.  For instance, they used to have a web presence of sorts at flyfishers.com.  They now seem to be doing their site inhouse and it’s a real stinker.  A company like umpqua would be expected to leave such work to pros – highly paid ones – to ensure the highest quality.  Look at The winston and orvis sites – these are very well done sites and did not come cheap.  What’s up with Umpqua? A little trouble in paradise? </c

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve attended two of last three Denver shows (‘95 & ‘97).  It’s going be a tough call as to which trade show to attend for 1998;  Denver or Salt Lake….Attending both can stretch a small budget.  I’m passing to see how this whole political matter shakes out. I received letters from both Orvis & Umpqua indicating they will not attend EITHER show.  The lists I’ve received about both shows’ attendees shows a heavier representation of the major rod companies at Salt Lake City Show.  My feeling is more people are favoring Salt Lake. I’d say that Orvis doesn’t need to attend.  They have a huge network of shops, and lodges, and strong mail order operation.  They hardly need to do another show. Umpquah, I’m not so sure about.  While they still seem to be the number one supplier of flies, I can help but wonder about their solvency in the present market.  For instance, they used to have a web presence of sorts at flyfishers.com.  They now seem to be doing their site inhouse and it’s a real stinker.  A company like umpqua would be expected to leave such work to pros – highly paid ones – to ensure the highest quality.  Look at The winston and orvis sites – these are very well done sites and did not come cheap.  What’s up with Umpqua? A little trouble in paradise? </c

      Yes, it’s my understanding they’ve been bought out.                                                             John Popp                                                        in Sanford Fl.

Response:

Jon—You’re correct,  Umpqua has been purchased by an investment group.  I’m sure their main focus is ROI & Dennis Black is happily retired.  I looked for the hard copy letter they sent to their accounts in making the official anouncement about 5-6 months ago …but couldn’t find it to relay the name of the group. This is what’s been going on in the industry the last few years;  Sage, Scott, Powell etc. to name a few.  Some of the groups are knowldgeable about the industry & some don’t seem to be that well intuned.  Nevertheless they’re business people & put in place execs who are business oriented…which is the way it should be if the focus is ROI.  Ideally, they should be both flyfishng savy & business keen.  Just like everything else…mergers, buy-outs downsizing etc…maybe the industry needs this movement to stay healthy. As for the two shows;  I feel there’s a lot of politics, money & super-egos involved.  It’ll be interesting to observe what transpires.  But I feel the small, independent fly shop is put in a difficult decision mode. CyberFly

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip Umpquah, I’m not so sure about.  While they still seem to be the number one supplier of flies, I can help but wonder about their solvency in the present market.  For instance, they used to have a web presence of sorts at flyfishers.com.  They now seem to be doing their site inhouse and it’s a real stinker.  A company like umpqua would be expected to leave such work to pros – highly paid ones – to ensure the highest quality.  Look at The winston and orvis sites – these are very well done sites and did not come cheap.  What’s up with Umpqua? A little trouble in paradise? </c       Yes, it’s my understanding they’ve been bought out.                                                             John Popp                                                        in Sanford Fl.

Really?  Who, I wonder? If true,it’s not too much of a surprise.  UFM has been plagued with all sorts of internal trouble for years.  The principals may have had enough and packed it in.

Response:

Cyberfly — You raise an excellent question about the future of the business side of flyfishing. It doesn’t seem likely that the "industry" can support two shows. I was surprised to learn that some of the most respected pros in the business are going to the Salt Lake show. I think this is just one more sign that the business side of flyfishing is in for some major shakeups in the immediate future. It’ll be interesting to watch. One of the things I wish for is a company to come along that offers an excellent lightweight saltwater flyrod for $200. BobE. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve attended two of last three Denver shows (‘95 & ‘97).  It’s going be a tough call as to which trade show to attend for 1998;  Denver or Salt Lake….Attending both can stretch a small budget.  I’m passing to see how this whole political matter shakes out. I received letters from both Orvis & Umpqua indicating they will not attend EITHER show.  The lists I’ve received about both shows’ attendees shows a heavier representation of the major rod companies at Salt Lake City Show.  My feeling is more people are favoring Salt Lake. CyberFly

Response:

I’ve attended two of last three Denver shows (‘95 & ‘97).  It’s going be a tough call as to which trade show to attend for 1998;  Denver or Salt Lake….Attending both can stretch a small budget.  I’m passing to see how this whole political matter shakes out. I received letters from both Orvis & Umpqua indicating they will not attend EITHER show.  The lists I’ve received about both shows’ attendees shows a heavier representation of the major rod companies at Salt Lake City Show.  My feeling is more people are favoring Salt Lake. CyberFly

Response:

Question:

The Housie smallie is worth the fishing. During the summer I fish the times and locations where the trout shouldn’t be, and almost never hook one. The bass will hit all day long on hot summer days, while the trout are more active at dawn, dusk and after dark. Fish a big crayfish-looking fly like a #4-6 wolly bugger rather than petite nymphs or dries. Fish outside ( for me usually downstream of) the stocked trout management area. Avoid cooler feeder stream entries and more highly oxygenated areas where the trout might congregate. ( There’s some discussion of closing down fishing in the management area during hot weather, so also check the streamside postings.) The Housatonic Flyfishermens’ Association ( Sorry, there’s no phone number on my membership card) is a valuable source of information and guidance. Maybe another reader can provide the #, or let me know and I’ll send you a copy of the next newsletter.

I’ve let the above repeat because it is good advice, worth repeating.  The HFFA information recording is at 203 248-8616.  If you are wading, watch out for the releases.  Sometimes Northeast Utilities has the water release schedule at 860 824-7861.  Having screwed up by failing to maintain and lying about the condition of their nuke plants, NU has had to shut almost all down, creating a potential for brown outs or worse, so the power plant at Falls Village tends to be running a lot.

Response:

All, I just moved to Ct. and understand the trout in the Hous get very stressed as the water temp. increases. I would like to leave them to rest and catch smallmouth instead! Any tips would be appreciated.

Response:

The Housie smallie is worth the fishing. During the summer I fish the times and locations where the trout shouldn’t be, and almost never hook one. The bass will hit all day long on hot summer days, while the trout are more active at dawn, dusk and after dark. Fish a big crayfish-looking fly like a #4-6 wolly bugger rather than petite nymphs or dries. Fish outside ( for me usually downstream of) the stocked trout management area. Avoid cooler feeder stream entries and more highly oxygenated areas where the trout might congregate. ( There’s some discussion of closing down fishing in the management area during hot weather, so also check the streamside postings.) The Housatonic Flyfishermens’ Association ( Sorry, there’s no phone number on my membership card) is a valuable source of information and guidance. Maybe another reader can provide the #, or let me know and I’ll send you a copy of the next newsletter.

Response:

Question:

I recieved a kit for Christmas and I was wondering if anyone knows of a good book that will help me learn how to tie flies? I am a avid flyfisherman and love to learn more about fly tieing. If anyone has any good paterns please send me a few to try and I will send you one of the finished products to see if I got it right. Thanks Alot Chuck Hester

Response:

I recieved a kit for Christmas and I was wondering if anyone knows of a good book that will help me learn how to tie flies?

I have Eric Leiser’s book on fly tying and like it.  (Sorry, I can’t remember the name of the book, but it is something obvious, like "Fly Tying."  It has a blue cover with pictures of flies on it.) This book walks you through dries, wets, streamers, etc., in different chapters.  It teaches a basic fly (with some variations) in each chapter, then lists patterns for several more flies that can be tied in the same way.  I like the book, and have only found two drawbacks so far.  First, it is a bit old–1970’s, I think.  The age affects the discussion of materials.  There is little mention of synthetic furs and he says that no substitute is necessary for polar bear hair. Second, there are no color photographs (other than on the cover). They would help mostly to get a better idea of how the final product should look. One of my standards for checking how well the author knows his (her) craft is the discussion of the whip finish.  If a book says that the whip finish is too hard to do and and that you should buy a tool to do it, I put the book down and move on.  The book should teach you how to do a whip finish by hand.  Also, in general, the book should not try to turn you into a "tool junkie."  Many tools you either don’t need or can make yourself.  For example, if an author tells you that you can make a dubbing needle yourself or can buy a potter’s needle tool cheaper than a "flytyer’s dubbing needle," then I rate that book higher than one that only names the tool. All of that said, I will now admit that I am fairly new to flytying. I also took a class at a local community Adult Ed. to help me along. (I got really lucky there.  The instructor was Ray Salminen, who is an excellent tyer and has been tying flies for 60 years!) Good luck! Dave

Response:

I recieved a kit for Christmas and I was wondering if anyone knows of a good book that will help me learn how to tie flies? I am a avid flyfisherman and love to learn more about fly tieing. If anyone has any good paterns please send me a few to try and I will send you one of the finished products to see if I got it right. Thanks Alot Chuck Hester

Two decent beginner books are those written by Jack Dennis.  Although they were written for Western trout, I dont think that Eastern trout will mind.   These books have the majority of basic long honored patterns, and cute stories that go with each.  In addition, the photographs should help the beginner do well right off the bat.  I would suggest, however, that you take a class in fly tying.  Many community based programs exist, as well as classes taught at fly shops or sporting goods stores. Good luck

Response:

I recieved a kit for Christmas and I was wondering if anyone knows of a good book that will help me learn how to tie flies? I am a avid flyfisherman and love to learn more about fly tieing. If anyone has any good paterns please send me a few to try and I will send you one of the finished products to see if I got it right. Thanks Alot Chuck Hester

I have been tying for about two years. I have two fly tying books that work well for me. 1. Fly Tying Adventures in Fur, Feathers and Fun by John F. McKim.     Great illustrations and a good selection of fly patterns. 2. Tying Flies with Jack Dennis and Friends.     Uses good photographs and very good on the step-by-step process. Happy tying, John

Response:

I have Eric Leiser’s book on fly tying and like it.  (Sorry, I can’t remember the name of the book, but it is something obvious, like "Fly Tying."  It has a blue cover with pictures of flies on it.)

The title is "The Complete Book of Fly Tying" & despite its relative vintage & lack of discussion of a lot of the new synthetics (mylar tubing was pretty avant garde at the time ) it’s a good & thorough guide to many basic & fairly advanced tying techniques. Great drawings. cheers, — Blair Sharpe Ottawa, ON, Canada

Response:

writes: As an alternative to books, one of the better ways to learn tying techniques is to buy or rent a few video tapes.  You’ll learn a lot more watching it being done than you will from looking a couple of still photos and reading a description.

I agree. Gary Borger’s Tying Trout Flies (part of the 3M Scientific Angler series) is quite good. I’m a relatively new tier, also. I, too, have and like Leiser’s Complete Book of Fly Tying. His "The Book of Fly Patterns" isn’t bad, either. It contains tying instructions as well as lots of patterns. I don’t have Randall Kaufmann’s books, but Tying Nymphs, Tying Dry Flies, and Fly Tyer’s Nymph Manual all look like good beginners. Books. Probably my favorite so far is Gary Borger’s Designing Trout Flies. Dave Guinee

Response:

Hello All!     Just got connected to this group – is there also one that is dedicated to fly tieing? K. — |Fidonet:  K. Lindholm 1:285/43 | | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own.

Response:

Hello All!    Just got connected to this group – is there also one that is dedicated to fly tieing? K. — |Fidonet:  K. Lindholm 1:285/43 | | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own.

Yes, try rec. outddors fishing flytying    Tom

Response:

Hello All!    Just got connected to this group – is there also one that is dedicated to fly tieing? K. — |Fidonet:  K. Lindholm 1:285/43 | | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own.

yes!!! rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying Paul M. Willenberg The kool-Aid Whinno http://www.wolfenet.com/~willej    Transcend the Bullshit.    Loud Pipes Save Lives -ATB    If today were a fish I’d throw it back. -Paul Hunter    I used to drink Vodka and Espresso and then I realized the last thing the world needed was a wide awake drunk -PH    Outside of a dog a book is a man’s best friend, inside of a dog it’s too dark to read.-Nelson Algren    Never eat at a place called Ma’s (she’s lying to ya, she’s not your real Ma), Never play cards with a man named Doc, and Never, Never, for any reason, sleep with somebody that has more problems than you.-Nelson ALgren

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello All!    Just got connected to this group – is there also one that is dedicated to fly tieing? K. — |Fidonet:  K. Lindholm 1:285/43 | | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. Yes, try rec. outddors fishing flytying    Tom

Using the correct syntax will make it easier to find: It’s rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello All!    Just got connected to this group – is there also one that is dedicated to fly tieing? K. — |Fidonet:  K. Lindholm 1:285/43 | | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. Yes, try rec. outddors fishing flytying    Tom Using the correct syntax will make it easier to find: It’s rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY I couldn’t find the group you suiggested above for fly tying. Do I need to do soemthing special to subscribe? David Merkel

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello All!    Just got connected to this group – is there also one that is dedicated to fly tieing? K. — |Fidonet:  K. Lindholm 1:285/43 | | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. Yes, try rec. outddors fishing flytying    Tom

Try rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying instead.

Response:

I have a CD on fly-tying, interactive and with 900 photos of what they look like and how to tie them, plus much more. It took the authors 5 yars to develop it.

Response:

Question:

I am new to this group so don’t know if there are other groups where this msg would be better posted.  Any suggestions regarding that would be appreciated. I am organizing a trip to Boundary Waters Canoe Area in MN for the end of July, 1996.  There will be 4 adults and 8 Boy Scouts in the age range 13-15.  All the kids are experienced campers and have at least some experience canoeing.  I have not been to BWCA before and would appreciate any words of wisdom that those with experience might have to offer.  Our current plan is to use Isabella Lake (Pt 35) as the entry point.  We will be on the lakes from 7/22/96 through 7/27/96.  We have already received our reservation confirmation from the Forest Service. One specific question I have regards water filtration systems.  What is the current state-of-the-art?  What should I consider? My ISP doesn’t keep msg for this newsgroup very long and I am afraid I might miss posted responses.  e-mail responses would me most appreciated. Tim: I don’t have any experience with boundary waters but I did take my troops venture crew into Algonquin Park last year for a week long canoe trip. I would expect that the water system we used might be of help to you. We took three PUR scout water purifers with the charcoal filters. One was personal gear and was kept in reserve. The other to were asigned to each of the patrols. We selected the PUR’s for two reasons. First they are purifers ie have an iodine matrex inside the filtering element. Second , ther price. About $60 (US) Their rated service life is about 200 gallons(US) per unit. These worked very well for us. As to other newsgroups where you mighrt post to, Have you trie rec.scouting. If you can tolerate all the BSA political threads, it a good newsgroup to check out. Hope this is of some help to you. Bill Schooley T-391 Hamburg, Mi.

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I am new to this group so don’t know if there are other groups where this msg would be better posted.  Any suggestions regarding that would be appreciated. I am organizing a trip to Boundary Waters Canoe Area in MN for the end of July, 1996.  There will be 4 adults and 8 Boy Scouts in the age range 13-15.  All the kids are experienced campers and have at least some experience canoeing.  I have not been to BWCA before and would appreciate any words of wisdom that those with experience might have to offer.  Our current plan is to use Isabella Lake (Pt 35) as the entry point.  We will be on the lakes from 7/22/96 through 7/27/96.  We have already received our reservation confirmation from the Forest Service. One specific question I have regards water filtration systems.  What is the current state-of-the-art?  What should I consider? My ISP doesn’t keep msg for this newsgroup very long and I am afraid I might miss posted responses.  e-mail responses would me most appreciated. Thanks in advance for any responses! — ——      X      Tim C. Perry    T/cP    DSA, Inc.             314-576-5101

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It has been several years since we went to BWCA.  You will really enjoy.   I don’t recall your entry point.  Good TOPO’s are helpful.  We found many of their maps were poorly done.  Be prepared for possible T-shorms.  It can put scouts through some weather stress because you can see storms coming for quite some time.  The water you cross can be big and quite choppy depending on the days.  The water is/was close to pottable so purifier shjould be satisfactory.  Don’t expect to carry the canoe and your packs together on the portages.  Plan several trips back and forth.   Some can be long. Very serious about the maps though.  It is easy to get disoriented on the water.  Be open to second guessing yourself. But you should have a great trip–We loved it there.  I intend to take our kids there again.  It is a great wilderness experience.  Take your fishing gear. Since your canoeing and not backpacking you can pack a bit of extra gear.  I suggest you make some bread.  The aroma in camp in the morning is unparalleled. PS be prepared for sketters and you may still be in black fly season.

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Question:

Can anyone recommend a good book on knot tieing ?  Actually, what I’d REALLY like is a stream-side guide to knot tieing … something I can stick in my vest, preferrably water-proofed, that covers a few basic knots. Ken Boulder, CO.

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Can anyone recommend a good book on knot tieing ?  Actually, what I’d REALLY like is a stream-side guide to knot tieing … something I can stick in my vest, preferrably water-proofed, that covers a few basic knots. Ken Boulder, CO.

It’s a little large for a vest, but the best knot tying book I have seen is "Practical Fishing Knots II" by Mark Sosin and Lefty Kreh. // // Charlie… //

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Can anyone recommend a good book on knot tieing ?  Actually, what I’d
REALLY like is a stream-side guide to knot tieing … something I can
stick in my vest, preferrably water-proofed, that covers a few basic

Save the cash and buy the current issue of  Fly Fisherman. It has one of the best articles I’ve seen that actually tested the strength of some of the more popular knots. Learn to tie two of those knots and you won’t ever need to learn any more about knots.

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I have a ’stream guide’ on my  fly box – it’s the metal kind.  Pasted on the outer side of the cover is a schematic of about 8 popular knots. I never use it because I tie the same 3 knots for anything I do:  blood for joining tippets and leaders; nail for joining leader to flyline, and Duncan for tying on flies.  After several hundred times of tying these, one never forgets how.   Point:  Practice 3 – 4 of your favorite knots over and over and you won’t need a stream guide.  Leaves more time for fishing instead of debating which knot to use, how to tie, etc…. Have fun. Jim

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Orvis has just such a thing, the "Waterproof Vest Pocket Knot Booklet" written by Doug Truax. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Can anyone recommend a good book on knot tieing ?  Actually, what I’d REALLY like is a stream-side guide to knot tieing … something I can stick in my vest, preferrably water-proofed, that covers a few basic knots. Ken Boulder, CO.

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Question:

I don’t know if it is true, but a very reputable fly-shop in Manhattan told me that Orvis rods, with the exception of the PM10’s are made by St. Croix.  What do yall think of that?? Frankie

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I don’t know if it is true, but a very reputable fly-shop in Manhattan

told me that Orvis rods, with the exception of the PM10’s are made by St. Croix.  What do yall think of that?? Frankie

I think I should look at St. Croix rods.

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: I don’t know if it is true, but a very reputable fly-shop in Manhattan : told me that Orvis rods, with the exception of the PM10’s are made by St. : Croix.  What do yall think of that?? : Frankie : I think I should look at St. Croix rods. It’s possible. St. Croix makes blanks and rods for a lot ofpeople- I believe Cortland rods are almost identical- if not identical- to St. Croix rods. I own 3 St. Croixs, and they are, I think, a remarkable value. –mike

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I don’t know if it is true, but a very reputable fly-shop in Manhattan told me that Orvis rods, with the exception of the PM10’s are made by St. Croix.  What do yall think of that?? Frankie

 I don’t know if that’s true or not, but I do know that a couple years ago  I read that St Croix is the largest American fabricator of blanks and rods.  This includes fly, spinning, casting, trolling, ice, surf.  They make rods  for Cortland, Gander Mountain and I believe some of the low end Cabela’s and  Bean’s.  A fellow I met a few years ago had an 8′ 4wt Orvis Green Mountain that he  says he picked up as a second at the St. Croix outlet store.  As he told  the story, he took the rod back a few days later because of a minor problem  and they fixed it, but were very red-faced in that someone apparently made  a mistake by putting the rod out on their seconds display rack.  Apparently,  none of the Orvis rods were ever to be sold or seen in their store.

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I don’t know if it is true, but a very reputable fly-shop in Manhattan told me that Orvis rods, with the exception of the PM10’s are made by St. Croix.  What do yall think of that?? Frankie

I’m shocked!   A sunny day,      a box of midges,         and a wandering stream…   Man, this MUST be heaven!   <    Steve Kulpa    <<

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I don’t know if it is true, but a very reputable fly-shop in Manhattan told me that Orvis rods, with the exception of the PM10’s are made by St. Croix.  What do yall think of that?? Frankie

The basic techniques of rod building are common to all rod manufacturers. The differences lie in a) the design of the mandrel over which the rod blank is built. b) the choice of materials: the choice of resin, the grade of graphite etc.  It should be noted that none of the rod manufacturers make their own sheets of prepreg graphite. c) Fussiness.  Different brands are more or less stringent about what they call a second or a reject.  This is one of the major reasons why extremely light blanks are expensive; you have to pay for all the rejects as well as the one that made it out the door. d) Finish and fittings. Even if St Croix makes rods for Orvis, that does not mean that the other St Croix rods are equivalent to the Orvis ones.  It simply means that St Croix can be relied upon to follow Orvis’s instructions.  Remember, when you contract with someone to build rods on your mandrels, you debar them from using your mandrels for their own or for anyone else’s rods.  Remember also that there is no reason why St Croix should use the same materials or quality control standards for their own rods as for the Orvis rods.  If the Orvis standards drive up the unit cost, then St Croix will not be able to sell faux Orvis rods at a price that suits their market niche. None of the above indicates that there is necessarily anything wrong with St Croix’s rods.  It just shows that it is fallacious to conclude that different brands are the same just because they come out of the same factory. It was reported in another post that St Croix does not make PM10 rods. This rumour-cum-fact suggests that St Croix could not produce these rods at a competitive price.  On the other hand, maybe St Croix simply lacked the capacity to fill the demand. It is fun to share scuttlebut and to arch ones eyebrows, but rumours should not be taken too seriously.  There is no way any of us will ever find out about the details of design, material, or quality control that distinguish good rods from great rods. — Keep your stick on the ice.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know if it is true, but a very reputable fly-shop in Manhattan told me that Orvis rods, with the exception of the PM10’s are made by St. Croix.  What do yall think of that?? Frankie The basic techniques of rod building are common to all rod manufacturers. The differences lie in a) the design of the mandrel over which the rod blank is built. b) the choice of materials: the choice of resin, the grade of graphite etc.  It should be noted that none of the rod manufacturers make their own sheets of prepreg graphite. c) Fussiness.  Different brands are more or less stringent about what they call a second or a reject.  This is one of the major reasons why extremely light blanks are expensive; you have to pay for all the rejects as well as the one that made it out the door. d) Finish and fittings. Even if St Croix makes rods for Orvis, that does not mean that the other St Croix rods are equivalent to the Orvis ones.  It simply means that St Croix can be relied upon to follow Orvis’s instructions.  Remember, when you contract with someone to build rods on your mandrels, you debar them from using your mandrels for their own or for anyone else’s rods.  Remember also that there is no reason why St Croix should use the same materials or quality control standards for their own rods as for the Orvis rods.  If the Orvis standards drive up the unit cost, then St Croix will not be able to sell faux Orvis rods at a price that suits their market niche. None of the above indicates that there is necessarily anything wrong with St Croix’s rods.  It just shows that it is fallacious to conclude that different brands are the same just because they come out of the same factory. It was reported in another post that St Croix does not make PM10 rods. This rumour-cum-fact suggests that St Croix could not produce these rods at a competitive price.  On the other hand, maybe St Croix simply lacked the capacity to fill the demand. It is fun to share scuttlebut and to arch ones eyebrows, but rumours should not be taken too seriously.  There is no way any of us will ever find out about the details of design, material, or quality control that distinguish good rods from great rods.

Well there is one way. Line-up the rod, cast it.  If you like it buy it. It doesn’t matter if it was made by Fisher-Price.  A name brand does not add to ability but a good casting rod will.  Now I know that we all know this but it seems the subject keeps going back to the name on the rod instead of the quality of the rod.  Just my 2 cents. Tom

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I don’t know if it is true, but a very reputable fly-shop in Manhattan told me that Orvis rods, with the exception of the PM10’s are made by St. Croix.  What do yall think of that?? Frankie

Sounds great to me.  I’d like to pick up even an orvis-quality cane rod at a St.Croix price.  Ask your shopowner for a St. Croix Wes Jordan model  ;) Mark Vinsel Fly fishing therapy – get in touch with your inner geezer.

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I don’t know if it is true, but a very reputable fly-shop in Manhattan told me that Orvis rods, with the exception of the PM10’s are made by St. Croix.  What do yall think of that??

I’ve taken a tour of Orvis’ rod shop in Manchester. They may buy some blanks for St. Croix, but I’m not sure. It seems much more likely that they’re made in some sweat shop in Singapore than that they pay St. Croix for it. But I seem to remember watching sheets of graphite being rolled into blanks while I was there. It’s a pretty impressive operation. If you happen to be around Manchester and aren’t too much of an anti-Orvis bigot, it might be worth seeing if you can take a rod-shop tour. Watching them work on the cane rods is particularly interesting. Dave Guinee

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know if it is true, but a very reputable fly-shop in Manhattan told me that Orvis rods, with the exception of the PM10’s are made by St. Croix.  What do yall think of that?? Frankie snip It is fun to share scuttlebut and to arch ones eyebrows, but rumours should not be taken too seriously.  There is no way any of us will ever find out about the details of design, material, or quality control that distinguish good rods from great rods. Well there is one way. Line-up the rod, cast it.  If you like it buy it. It doesn’t matter if it was made by Fisher-Price.  A name brand does not add to ability but a good casting rod will.  Now I know that we all know this but it seems the subject keeps going back to the name on the rod instead of the quality of the rod.  Just my 2 cents. Tom

True enough, the proof of the pudding is in the eating.  My point was that we do not have access to the pudding’s recipe. — Keep your stick on the ice.

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I don’t know if it is true, but a very reputable fly-shop in Manhattan told me that Orvis rods, with the exception of the PM10’s are made by St. Croix.  What do yall think of that?? Frankie I’m shocked!

But, guess what- It’s true !

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Question:

Can anyone give me any advise re using float tubes for fishing ? Anyone with any experiences pro or con would be appreciated. Thanks, Ron Ronald W Becker California " looking here and there for an interesting sight or two"

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Can anyone give me any advise re using float tubes for fishing ? Anyone with any experiences pro or con would be appreciated. Thanks, Ron

    My advise, as both a warm and cold water tuber, is to borrow one and fish the waters where you will want to spend most of your time. Find out as cheaply as possable if it is for you. Ask your fishing buddies or the tubers that you see at your lake. Folks love to share their experiences!     You will hear that one type of geer is best or that you will need such and such a thing, unless you have money to burn go slow. Some of the young guys like to use big hard fins that would kill me. So what is perfect for others is not always right for you. I started out with the cheapest, bare bones tube that I could find. Fished it for large mouth bass in warm water for a spring/summer and was quite happy with what I could do with it. So, the next spring I took it up into the mountains, 10,000 feet, high and cold. Found out that I needed more stuff, neophrene waiders, thermals, and an air pump. My point is, to not buy everything that you think that you could possiably ever need when you start. Grow into it.     Also, after a couple tubes, I found that the delux, high priced models, didn’t really improve the experience for me and infact made it somewhat more difficult because I tended to fill up all the pockets with stuff and then had to carry/kick the added weight. Though for equipment junkies the added features is just great.      Tubes are great in my opinion, and if you think that you are interested in the quiet, solitude, control, and exercise, go for it! brian

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Can anyone give me any advise re using float tubes for fishing ? Anyone with any experiences pro or con would be appreciated. Thanks, Ron

I was thinking of picking up a tube for river and pond fishing around Central Ohio late this summer, but decided on what is known as a kickboat.  If you don’t know, a kickboat is generally a small dual-pontoon type craft, with a fixed seat between the two pontoons.  Advantanges over tubes are that they are more stable, more comfortable, offer more storage, and you can add oar kits and even trolling motors to some.  Disadvantages are that they are slightly bigger, take more time to assemble, and are generally more expensive. I bought a J&R Outfitters Kingfisher III.  It’s a nice boat: the length is about 9′, very well constructed, and assembles very quickly.  I was also able to fit it in the back of my Eagle Talon!  I purchased mine with the optional oar kit (this is a fixed-oar kit with a kick bar to rest your feet), and a rear storage/cooler rack (will support up to 50 pounds).  The boat supports a total of 450 pounds, and again, is very stable.  I plan to buy the trolling motor when it’s ready in January. Again, they are expensive (I paid a total of 600.00 for the boat, oar kit, and storage rack, and the trolling motor kit will run 400.00), but I think they are better than tubes for a couple of reasons: one, you get a fixed seat with backrest and armrests. Secondly, you can get an oar kit, which is much better than kick-fins in most occassions.  Third, they hold more gear.  Lastly, you can keep your butt dry and not necessarily need waders!  They take a little while to assemble if you don’t put them together before leaving home (mine takes about 20 minutes including the 10 it takes to inflate the pontoons with a hand pump), and are heavy to lug around (although mine is a deluxe: you can get smaller, less expensive units that also weigh less), but I do like mine.   It was great catching the largest smallmouth I’ve ever caught (a little over 4 pounds) on it’s maden voyage! In all honesty, I’ll probably buy a tube this spring for the times I don’t need to cover a lot of water!

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: Can anyone give me any advise re using float tubes for fishing ? : Anyone with any experiences pro or con would be appreciated. : Thanks, Ron : Ronald W Becker : California : " looking here and there for an interesting sight or two"         Hey Ron,         Don’t use them in shark infested waters or in lakes with six foot snappin turtles!! Seriously, I’ve been fly fishing out of one for 2 years and love it. If fly fishing, I recomend at least an 8 ft rod. Also pisses the landlocked guys off when you haul in a trophy right out of their casting range!! Kinda fun!                                         dale — End of network mail

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Can anyone give me any advise re using float tubes for fishing ?

I would like to try this. But I don’t feel comfortable flowing down the river in a tube with myself somewhat tangled in it.  Can someone provide some statistics on the safety issue.  Thanks, Simon  

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