Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » Extra Conclave FurWraps

Extra Conclave FurWraps

Question:

Screw up good fly fishing.  Nothing worse in the outdoors than a FurWrap that can’t clean fish, dig worms or who can’t make a camp fire, cut or haul wood or who runs out of matches and then doesn’t know how to rub two sticks together, OR who doesn’t make a good pot of coffee.  A well trained FurWrap will deliver a cold bottle of beer streamside and not talk and drown out the sound of singing birds, but there is nothing worse if she doesn’t have a nice mixed drink to hand you when you arrive from a great day of fly fishing before she helps pull off your waders, hangs them up, runs your bath, gets in and soaps you down and later serves you a filet mignon, medium rare. Other than that, they don’t have many more uses or distractions worthy enough to bring them along unless they happen to be a good cribbage player. So tell us Frank?  Why? oh why, oh why this one? George Gehrke "shut up honey and deal"

Response:

<snipped a bunch of misogyny George Gehrke "shut up honey and deal"

George, If you’re still in Rochester you may want to stay there – indefinately. Your post may have been brought to the attention of the wife of a certain retired rod designer who lives not that far from you, and it may not be healthy for you to return home.  8) Bob Weinberger

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Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » Releasing Bleeders Safely:

Releasing Bleeders Safely:

Question:

Peter Charles: (snip) It is this kind of anecdotal experience that causes me to question some of the absolutism found in some scientific studies.

More anecdotal stuff:  Go fishing in Labrador and you are bound to catch a big brookie with portions of it missing, having been the intended meal of some hungry pike or laketrout.  I’ve caught several big brookies that had their dorsal fins missing, along with a nice chunk of their back, and others with scars on their head and belly.  But they all survived. Dave

Response:

More anecdotal stuff:  Go fishing in Labrador and you are bound to catch a big brookie with portions of it missing, having been the intended meal of some hungry pike or laketrout.  I’ve caught several big brookies that had their dorsal fins missing, along with a nice chunk of their back, and others with scars on their head and belly.  But they all survived.

Good point.  Another example is Great Lakes trout or salmon that have the scars from lamprey attachments.  Those cuts were obviously bleeding enough to feed an eel, yet they also survived.  I’ve always doubted the idea that a bleeding fish will necessarily die (this just does not make much sense in terms of their survival.)  But I don’t have anything other than anecdotal evidence either.

Response:

My father brought home a 23 pound Pike from Minnesota years ago that had a huge scar on both sides of it’s body that was the result of a considerably larger Pike getting a death grip on her.  The wound was mostly healed, and the fish put up a great fight, so it clearly wasn’t weakened.   Some have said that the bleeding won’t stop.  That is simply wrong.   Some have said that if the gills are cut, then the bleeding won’t stop.  That may be true in some circumstances, but certainly not in all circumstances. Is it possible that these stories about certain death are created by "bleeding heart" folks who need justification for bringing a fish home to the table? My experience matches Peter’s with juveniles being more delicate, and with larger fish surviving tremendous injuries. Last year at Great Slave Lake my son Andy caught a blind pike.  The fishes eyes were entirely gone, but it managed to find his fly and put up a presentable fight.  It was only 6 or 7 pounds, and uninjured by the fly so we released it.  We couldn’t guess how it lost it’s sight. Frank Ammoto(sp?) wrote an article about steelhead fishing in BC long ago where he caught a steelhead that didn’t put up the usual fight.   When he landed it he discovered that literally half of it’s head had been bitten off by a seal.  This fish was 100 miles upstream from the nearest seal. Chas – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – More anecdotal stuff:  Go fishing in Labrador and you are bound to catch a big brookie with portions of it missing, having been the intended meal of some hungry pike or laketrout.  I’ve caught several big brookies that had their dorsal fins missing, along with a nice chunk of their back, and others with scars on their head and belly.  But they all survived. Good point.  Another example is Great Lakes trout or salmon that have the scars from lamprey attachments.  Those cuts were obviously bleeding enough to feed an eel, yet they also survived.  I’ve always doubted the idea that a bleeding fish will necessarily die (this just does not make much sense in terms of their survival.)  But I don’t have anything other than anecdotal evidence either.

Response:

Is it possible that these stories about certain death are created by "bleeding heart" folks who need justification for bringing a fish home to the table?

I watched a fish bleed to death in Yellowstone this summer.  I was kind of mad that I couldn’t keep it because it was a cutthroat, but wrote it off as bug food and essential nutrients going back into the river.  It did die though.  There was no mistaking it.  No big deal really.  I am sure some other critter was able to enjoy a nice fish. Unlike "some" people, I am not tormented by this. I wonder if water temps, time of year, etc make much of a difference. Perhaps in colder waters, their metabolism is moving slower and the bleeding eventually stops compared to warm water, faster metabolism, etc. I do know that fish don’t have much of an circulatory system compared to other animals and so deep wounds may not even bleed at all.  Think about it.  When you clean a fish, how much blood do you get and where are you getting it?  I don’t draw blood when I lop off the fins of some perch and don’t strike blood until I lop off their heads or when I open them up to gut.  Just a few thoughts and not scientific answers. . . . — Warren Findley www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

Response:

When you cut the gills of salmon to bleed them, do you use a box cutter?

That’s supposed to be a joke?? You remain one sick fuckin’ puppy.

Response:

Along this line, it is now advocated by some that C&R bass fishermen brink along a hypodermic needle to "fizz" the air bladder of bass caught in deeper whater. Bass can not readily adjust their swim bladders so when they are released, they float on top. This has resulted in extreme mortality in some tournaments. There is a very specific location for the placement of the needle through the skin, so you need to familiarize yourself with the anatomy thoroughly before doing it.

Tim, This came up recently either on ROFF or ROFS. If ROFF sorry for the repeat of the site. http://www.leadertec.com/Catch_release.html Kiyu

Response:

Frankly, I don’t know the scientific name for fish slime but I would like to know it.  You don’t suppose there is someone here that can find the term here in ROFF Scott?

Well, as an erstwhile medical practitioner, I usually call it icky goo. When you cut the gills of salmon to bleed them, do you use a box cutter?

Has it ever occurred to you to wonder why so many people would rather consort with fish slime than with you? Still not Pete

Response:

Sure, they do die, I’ve seen that often too. I bet the water temperature has a lot to do with it.  Dry Falls Lake is a selective fishery in Eastern Washington that has a nice collection of 14 to 24 inch rainbows and a few nice browns.  One year it was warmer than usual around opening day, and I could see twenty or thirty dead fish on the second day of the season while the morning of the first day there were none.  I was sure these were fish that had been injured when they were hooked and released.  Other years there were no dead fish on the second or third day.  I’m sure it wasn’t any difference in the anglers or the education or the fish.  It had to be environmental. Today I was fishing for Silvers on the Cascade river and snagged a hard fighting 7 pounder.  All the skin and flesh was gone from the top of his head, right down to the bone.  That’s an area of about four square inches.  He put up quite a fight, and I released him unharmed.  The wound was red around the edges, and the rest was clean white bone.  The only likely perpetrator was a seal, and that had to have happened thirty miles down stream at the mouth of the Skagit.   All this is cold clean water, I’m sure that helped. As for that horible feeling that the fish has died, I don’t get that either.  It is wonderful to see all these dead pink salmon providing the nutrients our rivers have been starving for over the last several years. Chas Still thinking about carpooling to the Pike clave… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I watched a fish bleed to death in Yellowstone this summer.  I was kind of mad that I couldn’t keep it because it was a cutthroat, but wrote it off as bug food and essential nutrients going back into the river.  It did die though.   … snip . . — Warren Findley www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

Response:

I’m not sure I understand humane in this context, so I’ll just leave that part alone.  My understanding is that the fish taste better if you keep them on a stringer for a while so they can work out the built up lactic acid, and then bleed them as completely as possible. Why do I care about the slime on a fish I’m keeping?  (That’s an honest question, not a sarcastic comment)  I’ve noticed that fish I’ve gutted in the field and packed on ice seem to build up a heave slime layer by the time I get them home.  I wonder if the "slime glands" are like our hair folicles and keep functioning after the body has died. Chas – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve also cut the gills of salmon intentionally to bleed them when I was keeping them.  With the fish on a stringer in the shallows I did this half an hour before leaving.  There was a lot of blood in the water initially, but it stopped.  Some of the fish were still holding themselves upright and finning, and needed to be cut again to finish the bleeding. IMHO, when you are going to keep a fish, humanely kill it and be done with it.  There may be some blood later, but my understanding is that this is the best way to preserve the slime layer. Scott

Response:

I’m not sure I understand humane in this context, so I’ll just leave that part alone.  My understanding is that the fish taste better if you keep them on a stringer for a while so they can work out the built up lactic acid, and then bleed them as completely as possible.

just bleed them… it’s all one needs to do.  and you can thwack them on the head and then bleed them (and they’ll bleed fully dead) chris

Response:

I do know that fish don’t have much of an circulatory system compared to other animals and so deep wounds may not even bleed at all.  Think about it.  When you clean a fish, how much blood do you get and where are you getting it?

Not much.  Maybe that’s the answer.  Fish just don’t have that much blood. Other than a major artery or the gills, they just don’t bleed much.  When you do cut the gills, they can lose such a high percentage of their blood so quickly (relatively speaking) that it’s sometimes fatal.  Maybe it’s not a blood clot issue at all.

Response:

More anecdotal stuff: Some people survive shotgun blasts, and others are killed instantly by mishandled .22s loaded with .22 shorts. Sometimes game animals are killed with one (particular) shot, other times, they aren’t.  Of course some fish survive mauling, etc., while others die from seemingly minor wounds.  Why is anyone surprised, or doubt it happens?

Because people have written here in the past, in absolutely certain terms, that fish’s blood won’t clot, and once it starts bleeding, it won’t stop, and the fish will die, period.

Response:

Because people have written here in the past, in absolutely certain terms, that fish’s blood won’t clot, and once it starts bleeding, it won’t stop, and the fish will die, period.

Water, itself makes clotting difficult due to dilution.  The hot-match-heat procedure catercizes the wound and clotting isn’t necessary, don’t you see? George Gehrke

  george.vcf

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The hot-match-heat procedure catercizes the wound and clotting isn’t

necessary, don’t you see? I see the beauty of releasing bleeders in to an 11 inch cold handle cauterizer… — TBone

Response:

Because people have written here in the past, in absolutely certain terms, that fish’s blood won’t clot, and once it starts bleeding, it won’t stop, and the fish will die, period. Water, itself makes clotting difficult due to dilution.  The hot-match-heat procedure catercizes the wound and clotting isn’t necessary, don’t you

see? Catercizes.  Yes, I think I see now.

Response:

I suspect you’re right.  I think the main reason I keep them on a stringer is that I like to get them on ice as soon after they die as possible.  If I’m going to keep fishing, I’d rather keep the fish fresh by keeping it alive.  I know that’s not what I said before, but in that context I thought the delay might have some value. Thanks Chas – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – just bleed them… it’s all one needs to do.  and you can thwack them on the head and then bleed them (and they’ll bleed fully dead) chris

Response:

The best way to preserve ‘the slime layer’ is to never touch a fish with dry hands nor do you let it flop on dry ground. Frankly, I don’t know the scientific name for fish slime but I would like to know it.  You don’t suppose there is someone here that can find the term here in ROFF Scott? When you cut the gills of salmon to bleed them, do you use a box cutter? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve also cut the gills of salmon intentionally to bleed them when I was keeping them.  With the fish on a stringer in the shallows I did this half an hour before leaving.  There was a lot of blood in the water initially, but it stopped.  Some of the fish were still holding themselves upright and finning, and needed to be cut again to finish the bleeding. IMHO, when you are going to keep a fish, humanely kill it and be done with it.  There may be some blood later, but my understanding is that this is the best way to preserve the slime layer. Scott

  george.vcf

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Response:

In the world of CATCH & RELEASE, some get a bleeder which often is no more then a small hook hole or pin prick into a gill.  There is a way to stop the bleeding. Arm yourselves with a film can of kitchen matches.  Glue onto the sides a sheet of very fine grained sandpaper.  Use the hot match head, with flame still going but put it out by applying the charcoal heated (sulfur based) head against the wound.  Catercizing a little wound like this often stops the bleeding immediately and the fish may be released in good health.

Along this line, it is now advocated by some that C&R bass fishermen brink along a hypodermic needle to "fizz" the air bladder of bass caught in deeper whater. Bass can not readily adjust their swim bladders so when they are released, they float on top. This has resulted in extreme mortality in some tournaments. There is a very specific location for the placement of the needle through the skin, so you need to familiarize yourself with the anatomy thoroughly before doing it. — TBone

Response:

Good point.  Another example is Great Lakes trout or salmon that have the scars from lamprey attachments.  Those cuts were obviously bleeding enough to feed an eel, yet they also survived.  I’ve always doubted the idea that a bleeding fish will necessarily die (this just does not make much sense in terms of their survival.)  But I don’t have anything other than anecdotal evidence eithe

I’ve seen many trout that have had huge scars and chunks of flesh missing that have survived quite well, but *every* trout or salmon that I’ve seen bleeding from the gills has died within minutes, often within seconds. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

I’ve also cut the gills of salmon intentionally to bleed them when I was keeping them.  With the fish on a stringer in the shallows I did this half an hour before leaving.  There was a lot of blood in the water initially, but it stopped.  Some of the fish were still holding themselves upright and finning, and needed to be cut again to finish the bleeding.

IMHO, when you are going to keep a fish, humanely kill it and be done with it.  There may be some blood later, but my understanding is that this is the best way to preserve the slime layer. Scott

Response:

Peter Charles: (snip) It is this kind of anecdotal experience that causes me to question some of the absolutism found in some scientific studies. More anecdotal stuff:  Go fishing in Labrador and you are bound to catch a big brookie with portions of it missing, having been the intended meal of some hungry pike or laketrout.  I’ve caught several big brookies that had their dorsal fins missing, along with a nice chunk of their back, and others with scars on their head and belly.  But they all survived. Dave

More anecdotal stuff: Some people survive shotgun blasts, and others are killed instantly by mishandled .22s loaded with .22 shorts. Sometimes game animals are killed with one (particular) shot, other times, they aren’t.  Of course some fish survive mauling, etc., while others die from seemingly minor wounds.  Why is anyone surprised, or doubt it happens? TC, R

Response:

In the world of CATCH & RELEASE, some get a bleeder which often is no more then a small hook hole or pin prick into a gill.  There is a way to stop the bleeding. Arm yourselves with a film can of kitchen matches.  Glue onto the sides a sheet of very fine grained sandpaper.  Use the hot match head, with flame still going but put it out by applying the charcoal heated (sulfur based) head against the wound.  Catercizing a little wound like this often stops the bleeding immediately and the fish may be released in good health. Sometimes it doesn’t work, but practice makes perfect This IS a choice which is better then nothing at all. George Gehrke

  george.vcf

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Response:

I’m trying to imagine handling the fish’s gills carefully enough to find the wound, then striking the match, blowing it out, and getting it inside the fish to cauterize the wound.  All this needs to be within 30 seconds so the air on the gills doesn’t do the dastardly deed. Interesting idea, but a bit far-fetched. I don’t have any proof in the case of trout, but I’ve seen that bleeding pills in Pike aren’t always lethal.  On a couple 30 fish days up at Great Slave Lake, we had 3 or 4 fish that we released despite the bleeding.   The bay we were fishing had a bare mud bottom only about 3 feet deep, so we could see the fish on the bottom.  They developed a red spot on the bottom from the bleeding.  As we came over those areas later, we noticed the spots, but the fish were gone. I’ve also cut the gills of salmon intentionally to bleed them when I was keeping them.  With the fish on a stringer in the shallows I did this half an hour before leaving.  There was a lot of blood in the water initially, but it stopped.  Some of the fish were still holding themselves upright and finning, and needed to be cut again to finish the bleeding. I’m sure these cuts aren’t good, but I think at least some fish survive them. Chas – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is a multi-part message in MIME format. In the world of CATCH & RELEASE, some get a bleeder which often is no more then a small hook hole or pin prick into a gill.  There is a way to stop the bleeding. Arm yourselves with a film can of kitchen matches.  Glue onto the sides a sheet of very fine grained sandpaper.  Use the hot match head, with flame still going but put it out by applying the charcoal heated (sulfur based) head against the wound.  Catercizing a little wound like this often stops the bleeding immediately and the fish may be released in good health. Sometimes it doesn’t work, but practice makes perfect This IS a choice which is better then nothing at all. George Gehrke [ george.vcf ] (Attachment)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m trying to imagine handling the fish’s gills carefully enough to find the wound, then striking the match, blowing it out, and getting it inside the fish to cauterize the wound.  All this needs to be within 30 seconds so the air on the gills doesn’t do the dastardly deed. Interesting idea, but a bit far-fetched. I don’t have any proof in the case of trout, but I’ve seen that bleeding pills in Pike aren’t always lethal.  On a couple 30 fish days up at Great Slave Lake, we had 3 or 4 fish that we released despite the bleeding.   The bay we were fishing had a bare mud bottom only about 3 feet deep, so we could see the fish on the bottom.  They developed a red spot on the bottom from the bleeding.  As we came over those areas later, we noticed the spots, but the fish were gone. I’ve also cut the gills of salmon intentionally to bleed them when I was keeping them.  With the fish on a stringer in the shallows I did this half an hour before leaving.  There was a lot of blood in the water initially, but it stopped.  Some of the fish were still holding themselves upright and finning, and needed to be cut again to finish the bleeding. I’m sure these cuts aren’t good, but I think at least some fish survive them. Chas

Chas, I don’t have the range of encounters that you have mentioned but I can talk about a few instances.  We are taught that fish have no platelets and all bleeding inevitably leads to death.  I have hooked deeply small trout on C&R or slot limit streams that I was required by law to release and I have watched these bleeding fish die.  Yet I have also hooked a landlock salmon under the jaw, caused a very nasty, distinctive wound, had it bleed, released it (as required by law) and caught it the very next day on the same fly.   I have also caught smallmouth with fresh, bleeding mouth wounds opposite to the site of the hook puncture, that I had obviously caused having hooked and lost the same fish some time earlier (I was the only fisherman there.) These experiences have suggested to me that fish with major bleeding will die but a minor bleed is not necessarily fatal.  I also agree that pike with minor bleeding wounds will usually survive.  In my experience, most pike that are brought into a boat are returned to the water with at least some bleeding.  They thrash so much that even with experienced handling, it’s hard to keep them from banging into something that will cut them.  If mortality from these casual bleeds was 100%, C&R mortality for pike would be probably in excess of 50%. Nobody talks about pike as being endangered. So obviously, C&R mortality has to be running a lot lower (as suggested by virtually all studies – however flawed.)   Therefore, bleeding is not necessarily fatal – hardly scientific but definitely within the experience of this fisherman.  I have also caught steelhead with a fungus growth covering wounds inflicted during the migration, from nest building, and from fighting.  If steelhead died from the first bleeding wound, there wouldn’t be very many steelhead around. It is this kind of anecdotal experience that causes me to question some of the absolutism found in some scientific studies. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » River Fly Fishing » Life Vests / Floatation Devices

Life Vests / Floatation Devices

Question:

Can anyone give me some advice on a fly fishing life vest or personal floatation device? I’m interested in a model I can wear under my fishing vest when wading a river. I already purchased a standard vest, so hopefully the response isn’t to buy a vest with a floatation ballon built in (if they even manufacture something like that). What do people use when wading a river? Obviously, price isn’t really an issue… Thanks, Ryan

Response:

http://www.sospenders.com/models.html Look about halfway down the screen. I’d go with a manual (pull the lanyard) model. /daytripper (standard disclaimers apply) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Can anyone give me some advice on a fly fishing life vest or personal floatation device? I’m interested in a model I can wear under my fishing vest when wading a river. I already purchased a standard vest, so hopefully the response isn’t to buy a vest with a floatation ballon built in (if they even manufacture something like that). What do people use when wading a river? Obviously, price isn’t really an issue… Thanks, Ryan

Response:

Cabela’s and Pro Bass carry the Sospenders.  I got mine from Orvis a couple of years ago when the sold out at 50% off.  These things are great for tubing as you don’t even know they are on.  I think they have two sizes and the smaller is ok for most applications. DP

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone give me some advice on a fly fishing life vest or personal floatation device? I’m interested in a model I can wear under my fishing vest when wading a river. I already purchased a standard vest, so hopefully the response isn’t to buy a vest with a floatation ballon built in (if they even manufacture something like that). What do people use when wading a river? Obviously, price isn’t really an issue… Thanks, Ryan

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Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » "yak fishing in TampaBay

"yak fishing in TampaBay

Question:

Greetings All, I live in the Tampa Bay area & would like some input from kayak fishers in this area as to what ‘yak you use

Not from the area, but I have a couple of ‘Rides’ I use for fly fishing and they are great boats. I live in Atlanta but have used them off Tybee Island and also around the Port St. Joe/Apalachiciola area and have had no problems with them at all. — Charlie…

Response:

Greetings All, I live in the Tampa Bay area & would like some input from kayak fishers in this area as to what ‘yak you use Not from the area, but I have a couple of ‘Rides’ I use for fly fishing and they are great boats. I live in Atlanta but have used them off Tybee Island and also around the Port St. Joe/Apalachiciola area and have had no problems with them at all. — Charlie…

I’ll have to go test one out and see if it’s really possible to stand up in it like the chap depicted in the ad on their web page. Scott

Response:

I’ll have to go test one out and see if it’s really possible to stand up in it like the chap depicted in the ad on their web page.

It is, but I’m not sure I could land a fish that way. <g — Charlie…

Response:

Cockroach Bay is a "good area."  Still relatively undisturbed.  Too shallow for many powerboats.  Rich in fish and birdlife. Also try the sandbar just north of the Cockroach Bay boat ramp and separating the outer mangrove shore from Tampa Bay.  I used to wedge a paddle into the sand and tie my canoe to it; then, walk/wade the bar, casting off the side that seemed likely to be most productive.  Got snook, trout, bonnethead shark, etc., there.  Very pleasant even when fish weren’t biting. Jeff Jeff Harper jeff#doplay.com

| Greetings All, | | I live in the Tampa Bay area & would like some input from kayak fishers | in this area as to what ‘yak you use and what are some good areas. I’m | considering a Scupper Pro TW or a Wilderness Systems Ride.   I’m | thinking the Weedon Island area is a good place, and the flats area | between the Gandy and Skyway. | | Scott |

Response:

Greetings All, I live in the Tampa Bay area & would like some input from kayak fishers in this area as to what ‘yak you use and what are some good areas. I’m considering a Scupper Pro TW or a Wilderness Systems Ride.   I’m thinking the Weedon Island area is a good place, and the flats area between the Gandy and Skyway. Scott

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Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing Reel » Fishing For Stripers Around NYC

Fishing For Stripers Around NYC

Question:

I have heard that the fishing for stripers can be good right through November. Can anyone point me to a source of information about this.  It would be helpful to know: How late the fish are generally around. Where you can launch a boat from and safely leave your truck and trailer. What tides and locations are best. Thanks for info. JK

Response:

Http://www.reel-time.com  Check the FishWire Reports.  Weekly NY saltwater fly fishing reports. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have heard that the fishing for stripers can be good right through November. Can anyone point me to a source of information about this.  It would be helpful to know: How late the fish are generally around. Where you can launch a boat from and safely leave your truck and trailer. What tides and locations are best. Thanks for info. JK

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Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing Flies » fly fishing with rudder

fly fishing with rudder

Question:

Does any one out there have any info on fly fishing using a rudder.

Fly fishing with a drift control rudder (similar in effect to a lee board) is used on some of the large reservoirs in the English Midlands. These are really trolling techniques and a pretty far cry from what most of us regard as true fly fishing: usually using fast sink/lead core lines and big tandem lures or tube flies (dead blackbirds, etc.). They are, nevertheless, effective techniques for ’specimen hunting’ really big, dour browns and rainbows, that are not usually caught by conventional ‘fly’ fishing. The guy who can probably tell you most about rudder fishing is Steve Parton: a vastly experienced; plain talking and helpful tackle dealer based near Nottingham. He wrote a book that covered the subject pretty fully. It’s out of print now, but he might have a copy or two left. Tight Lines Tony Deacon P.S. Drogues are used very extensively on the English reservoirs and everyone calls them drogues.

Response:

: Does any one out there have any info on fly fishing using a rudder. : : Well I am not too sure about fly-fishing with it, but if you look at the : shark thread on here, you might find it would be useful for bashing them on : the head with ? : Perhaps you could work it into a collage with the Nautical Art Deco Lamp ? : Seriously,  a rudder is not much use for steering a boat while flyfishing. : The best method is to have a boatman using oars to control the boat, if you : have enough way on to steer properly with a rudder, then the boat is usually : moving too fast.  A drogue is much more useful for controlling a drift, : especially if you are alone in the boat. : A drogue is a device usually made of strong cloth or similar, and placed in : the water on the end of a rope to act as a brake and steering device. : Depending on how and where it is placed, very precise drifting may be : achieved. It seems to me that drogue is an aeronautical term. Us old swabbies know it as a Sea Anchor! : Tight lines ! : Mike Connor — I’m a Canadian eh!                                              Steve. The FAQ for rec.crafts.metalworking is at: http://w3.uwyo.edu/~metal The metalworking drop box  is at           http://www.metalworking.com                                     or     http://208.213.200.132 Visit my website at: http://www.victoria.tc.ca/~ud233/homepage.htm

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Does any one out there have any info on fly fishing using a rudder.

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Does any one out there have any info on fly fishing using a rudder.

Well I am not too sure about fly-fishing with it, but if you look at the shark thread on here, you might find it would be useful for bashing them on the head with ? Perhaps you could work it into a collage with the Nautical Art Deco Lamp ? Seriously,  a rudder is not much use for steering a boat while flyfishing. The best method is to have a boatman using oars to control the boat, if you have enough way on to steer properly with a rudder, then the boat is usually moving too fast.  A drogue is much more useful for controlling a drift, especially if you are alone in the boat. A drogue is a device usually made of strong cloth or similar, and placed in the water on the end of a rope to act as a brake and steering device. Depending on how and where it is placed, very precise drifting may be achieved. Tight lines ! Mike Connor

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Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » Hosmer Lake, Oregon

Hosmer Lake, Oregon

Question:

I will be up in Bend, Oregon next week and will be trying to fish Hosmer Lake next Friday, May 15.  Any word on if the road will be open?  If so, what is the fishing like there at that time of year?  Any particular patterns that would be more effective than others?  Help would be

Response:

Hosmer might still be snowed in. Try Black leech patterns if you can get in-mid-day or late afternoon best

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I will be up in Bend, Oregon next week and will be trying to fish Hosmer Lake next Friday, May 15.  Any word on if the road will be open?  If so, what is the fishing like there at that time of year?  Any particular patterns that would be more effective than others?  Help would be

Hi Tom, I have only fished it in August, but heard that they had great caddis hatches in June. Early on fish can be pretty hungry and stupid so a black wolly bugger or leech might get ‘em. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

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I will be up in Bend, Oregon next week and will be trying to fish Hosmer Lake next Friday, May 15.  Any word on if the road will be open?  If so, what is the fishing like there at that time of year?  Any particular patterns that would be more effective than others?  Help would be

Tom Last I heard it’s still snowed in.  A couple of guys tried to hike in with belly boats and didn’t make it. Jim Jones For e-mail reply replace spam with sns

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Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing Guide » Guides in the Keys?

Guides in the Keys?

Question:

Can anyone reccomend a good guide/outfitter near Marathon Key?  We will be there in January and are just frothing at the mouth to wet a fly.

Response:

Try calling Tim Carlisle in Sugarloaf Key.  He can be reached at TJ’s Sugar Shack in Sugarloaf.  The number is listed in information (305 area code).  Sorry I don’t have my phone book with me.  You can also rent a boat at TJ’s and do it yourself.    If you are brave of heart, and a very good fly-fishing angler then call Lenny Moffo.  You can reach him through SEA BOOTS OUTFITTERS.  Tell them that I recomended Lenny but be prepared to have a hard day of fishing if you are not at the top of your game.  Lenny is a cantancorous (sp?) prick but he will put you on more fish than any other guide in the Keys or Everglades. Good luck! Ralph Curd

Response:

Gil drake and Jose Wejebe call information for the florida keys I think there both in key west. Mark Gervase

Response:

The Keys guides I have most enjoyed fishing with:         1) Bob Trosset in Key West (1-305-294-5801, I think)         3. Tom DeMoss in Islamorada  (1-305-852-9359)         Trosset is one of the deservedly famous flats guides, so he’s hard to book, but it’s always worth a call, in case he has a cancellation. Cutchin is less well known, but also heavily booked. I booked DeMoss on short notice through the concierge at Cheeca Lodge.         Besides being good guides who will put you into fish and make you a better fisherman than you would be without them (which is what guiding is supposed to be all about), these three guys are also fun to fish with. Some famous guides are so unpleasant and irascible, I wouldn’t fish them even if they paid me instead of the usual arrangement! Book one of the three above, and you will have a fine day on the water, even if the wind is blowing hard from the northeast and the fish have lockjaw. — Gary A. Soucie – writer, editor, angler TEL 1-301-322-8373;  FAX 1-301-322-4329 3007 Crest Ave., Cheverly, MD 20785 USA

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Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » Alaska flies-Info given

Alaska flies-Info given

Question:

Steve, How about sharing the outrageous p[attern.. This is one I have not heard of and would be most grateful for a reply.   Thanks

Response:

: Steve, : : How about sharing the outrageous p[attern.. This is one I have not heard : of and would be most grateful for a reply.   Thanks : No problem. Let me explain how we came across this fly. My dad saw the pattern advertised by C.I. Tackle Co. of Battle Ground, Washington.  He bought four and we took them with us on our 1992 trip to the Alaska Peninsula.  The Pinks and Silvers went nuts with them. In no time, those four were gone.  Since then we make them part of every trip since they catch quite a few different fish. The thing I did not like about these Outrageous (the ones purchased) was the hook.  They are very poor quality.  I bought just one more and use it as a pattern for tying my own. As I mentioned, I use a Tiemco 5263 hook, no.4. The thread color is orange. I tie them weighted, but be sure to leave enough room for the head, it can get cramped. The body is pink, using, well, it looks like dyed wool. I tie it so it completely covers around the lead wire and is about 5/8" past the bend of the hook. Then, there are two sets of feathers that go along each side. These feathers are pink and red, I use schlappin (sp?).  Cut these feathers (use the ends) about 3 1/8" long and tie them just behind the eye of the hook.  I tie them with the pink feather on the inside (closest to the body) and the red on the outside.  Again, these go on both sides.  Next, tie in some *electric blue* Flashabou on top, kind of between the two sets of feathers.  This is tied in just behind the hook eye as well.  Then goes the hackle.  This is one orange and one red schlappin feather tied in a palmered style about 3/16" behind the hook eye.  Use the orange thread to build a nice head and finish per usual methods. Now, just add water.  The fish part will take care of itself! If I can find the old packaging from the materials, I will pass that along so the exact body material can be identified. Kindest regards, Steve Kernosky

Response:

Since the subject has come up, I thought I would pass along some information concerning what flies worked on a recent trip to Alaska. Purple egg sucking leech-tied on a no.4 Tiemco 5263 hook. The egg was light pink to simulate the egg of a Chum salmon.  With this fly, I caught King salmon, Chum salmon, Rainbows (lots!), Char, and Grayling.  Really, this fly caught everything! Outrageous-Also tied on the no. 4 Tiemco 5263 hook.  This fly took King and Chum salmon, rainbows, and Char.  In previous trips, this fly has worked extremely well for Pinks and Silvers. Humpy-size 12.  Caught Grayling and Char with this fly.  The Char seemed to strike best when the fly was skated across the surface. The largest Grayling was about 22" (close to three pounds, maybe). Brown Drake-size 10.  Caught Grayling (lots!) and a few rainbow with this fly. Mice-this is the first trip where I have tried mice and I was absolutely amazed.  Char (upwards of seven pounds), rainbow, and even Grayling go after these things.  I tied some using caribou hair.  The final product was about an inch long but in the future I think I will cut this down just a bit.  The fish would often just keep striking the little critter until they were hooked. For the entire seven days, these are the only five flies I used.  I was fishing on the Alaska Peninsula through Blue Mountain Lodge, owned by Tracy Vrem.  The lodge is located about 15 miles southwest of Lake Becharof.  Without getting into too much detail (and sounding like an advertisement), Tracy conducts fly-out type fishing. The lodge itself is not really fancy. He has many places to fish within a short (say, twenty minutes) plane ride from the lodge. The fishing can vary from catching salmon on streamers to Grayling on dry flies. Thanks for you time. Best regards, Steve Kernosky Michigan Tech University      

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Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Flyfishing » SHANENDOAH: HOW LATE?

SHANENDOAH: HOW LATE?

Question:

You can fish the streams in the park productively all Summer long, but they do get low and the fish get squirrely.  Heating is not so much a problem as low water.  Try the upper Hughes, the Hazel (if it’s open this year) and the upper Conway.  Learn to crawl on your belly, and hide behind the boulders.  I know nothing about Naked Creek.  As a sidelight, there are a bunch of decent limestones in the general area as well.  Buffalo Creek is one of the better ones.  Call Harry Murray in Edinsburg, VA.  He has a pharmacy/ fly shop.  Nobody is better versed on these streams than he.  I don’t have his number.  Call dir assist. and get the number for Murray’s fly shop in Edinsburg.

Response:

We fish the lower Shenandoah year round for Rainbow and Brown trout. We take good size trout from about 12 streams with regular success. The trophy trout areas are good but the smaller spring fed streams hold fish year round and have less fishing pressure. In addition to Murrays, I would recommend the Mossy Creek Flyshop in Bridgewater to get info on Smithy Creek, Mossy as well as the Bull Pasture. I would contact the Orvis store in Roanoke to get the flies and hatch info on Lower Jackson, Back Creek, Upper Jackson, Tye, South, Irish, Pedlar and Upper Maury. Ron Bennett Flyfishing Virginia L.L.C. (804) 467-6668

Response:

How late can one fish in the Shanendoa trout streams productively? I’m told they get to warm by "summer." I want to fish Naked Creek in mid Jun e.

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