Question:

Does anybody know of any good fishing books to read. I’m lookin for a book about the pleasures of fishin in a philisophical sense. Not the fly fishing type of book….A book about fishing/guiding/travelling & fishing etc Al Have fishing rod…will travel. Prospective accomplice in fishing

Response:

Know lots of great fishing books but not to many that fill your requirement. Only 2 I can think of were Shaw Grigsby’s book, and Jimmy Huston’s, "Caught me a Big ‘Un". There are a lot more from the fly fishing side of the sport. I am a lot better on the educational stuff. dan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anybody know of any good fishing books to read. I’m lookin for a book about the pleasures of fishin in a philisophical sense. Not the fly fishing type of book….A book about fishing/guiding/travelling & fishing etc Al Have fishing rod…will travel. Prospective accomplice in fishing

Response:

Know lots of great fishing books but not to many that fill your requirement. Only 2 I can think of were Shaw Grigsby’s book, and Jimmy Huston’s, "Caught me a Big ‘Un". There are a lot more from the fly fishing side of the sport. I am a lot better on the educational stuff. dan

Thanks Dan i am aware of those 2 books. I picked up a book today by Richard Louv. He travels through America…meeting other fisherman.I like it because it is a thick book (475 pages) and a cheapo price $5.99. Al Have fishing rod…will travel. Prospective accomplice in fishing

Response:

Darwin’s Bass & Pavlov’s Trout — both by Paul Quinnett. It’s been a while since I read them, but I found them both very enjoyable reads for ‘non-how-to’ type books. RichZ

Question:

Dear Sir,  Do you realize they have Lithium and Prozac among many other medications that can help with this problem?  Please walk, err RUN to your closest Dr. of Psychiatry and get some help!  The twitch and voices in my head were removed, I’m sure your voices can be put down as well….:) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We would like anyone in ROFF who does not wish to receive posts to their  private e-mail address to notify us who they may be so we may make a log.   Everyone  is considered operational unless we are notified otherwise in the next ten days.  This is a legal notice.

Response:

Legal notice to George Gehrke: Go fuck yourself for 10 days and get back on your meds. Any emails from you to my address will be considered harassment, and will result in a shitstorm of incredible magnitude raining down upon you. Yours truly, Bob Smith

Response:

Two years ago, many on roff gave us the challenge and after two years, we were able to come up with a fly rod for under the challenged price.

You lying old sack of puss. Two years ago the challenge was to produce a production bamboo fly rod for $300. Not a fly rod KIT, a fly rod, a fishable upon receipt fly rod for $300. You didn’t do it. You failed. So now you think you can change what the challenge was to this new twist of producing a "roll your own" kit rod for $300 or less. You are such a fucking moron George. Do you really thing everybody here who’s had to live with your crap for the last two years will buy this new story from you. God, you are a miserable excuse for a human being. KMA, Bob

Response:

Dear Sir,  Do you realize they have Lithium and Prozac among many other medications that can help with this problem?  Please walk, err RUN to your closest Dr. of Psychiatry and get some help!  The twitch and voices in my head were removed, I’m sure your voices can be put down as well….:)

What, you would deprive Mr. Gehrke of ALL human intercourse?  For shame sir! Wolfgang

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <More lunacy snipped I would seriously advise anybody even considering posting an e-mail to this person, for whatever reason, to be extremely careful.  There is no telling where your address might end up. The person is obviously unbalanced, and in need of treatment. While this is unfortunate, it will not save anybody involved from the possibly unfortunate consequences, and probable misery involved. Yes, exactly.  Why anyone would feel obliged to respond to what is essentially a threat is beyond me.  Best to just let it be.  If you receive spam as a result of your participation on ROFF, simply deal with it as you would any other spam, by contacting the ISP of the offending party. JR

or check the law.  washington state has pretty strict laws on unsolicited e-mail… don’t know the specifics, but if he spammed me via e-mail i might just have to look into it. chris

Response:

You lousy son-of-a-bitch. Unsolicited commercial e-mail of any kind will result in a complaint(s) to your ISP(s). It’s bad enough that I have to wade through your SPAM on ROFF.  It’s illegal and against all of the Usenet rules I’m aware of, both formal and informal. Now you want to start sending me SPAM directly? As the high and mighty judge of all things ethical and moral, you should know better than to try and pull some stunt like this one. How about this: You make a one-time SPAM posting to alert all interested ROFFians (there might even be three or four of them) that if they would like to recieve e-mails from you that they can go to your website and subscribe to your mailing list.  I’m sure that the response would be overwhelming. Legal Notice.  Ha!  What you are contemplating is definitely illegal.  You should fire your attorney, George, and so should your ISP if they truly believe that an illegal post to a public newsgroup constitutes any sort of ‘legal notice’. George, you need help.  Mental help, legal help, and then some.  Perhaps an in-patient program might suit you better than the current out-patient one that continues to allow you to embarrass yourself in front of God and everybody. Here’s my legal notice, Mr. Gehrke, DO NOT EVER SEND ME ANY COMMERCIAL E-MAIL. Tom G constantly amazed

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We would like anyone in ROFF who does not wish to receive posts to their  private e-mail address to notify us who they may be so we may make a log.   Everyone  is considered operational unless we are notified otherwise in the next ten days.  This is a legal notice. Our company and web site is available for any technical questions regarding fly fishing.  Our chat site will become active under a new provider who honors any commercial comments as long as they are posted in chat sites and/or talk groups like Roff.  This new change will prevent problems regarding fly fishing content and values that are posted in the best interests of the industry and individuals world wide who ARE interested in certain commercial aspects regarding FLYFISHING Finally, THIS COMPUTER is a business computer and every man, woman or child in the world may post to this E-Mail Address which may include questions, comments, orders, and requests.  This  open door policy for free speech includes everyone.  Anyone wishing to talk with us over an extended period of time may do so on http://www.gink.com/chat/index.html starting 7 PM evenings. Bad manners, name calling, or bad language will not tolerated at: http://www.gink.com/chat/index.html starting up again after a long absence for operations and plant construction and expansion. Anyone who has any questions should email us.  The new e-mail site is Please make a note of it. Thank you, COMMENTS TO GEORGE AT THIS EMAIL ADDRESS FROM NOW ON.

Response:

We would like anyone in ROFF who does not wish to receive posts to their  private e-mail address to notify us who they may be so we may make a log.   Everyone  is considered operational unless we are notified otherwise in the next ten days.  This is a legal notice.

I can’t f*&%#$% belive this bullshit. You want me to email you to tell you I’m not interested in your new line. I’ve got a better idea I’ll save this tread and send it to your ISP along with a couple of responces to other threads and let them deside. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Our company and web site is available for any technical questions regarding fly fishing.  Our chat site will become active under a new provider who honors any commercial comments as long as they are posted in chat sites and/or talk groups like Roff.  This new change will prevent problems regarding fly fishing content and values that are posted in the best interests of the industry and individuals world wide who ARE interested in certain commercial aspects regarding FLYFISHING Finally, THIS COMPUTER is a business computer and every man, woman or child in the world may post to this E-Mail Address which may include questions, comments, orders, and requests.  This  open door policy for free speech includes everyone.  Anyone wishing to talk with us over an extended period of time may do so on http://www.gink.com/chat/index.html starting 7 PM evenings. Bad manners, name calling, or bad language will not tolerated at: http://www.gink.com/chat/index.html starting up again after a long absence for operations and plant construction and expansion. Anyone who has any questions should email us.  The new e-mail site is Please make a note of it. Thank you, COMMENTS TO GEORGE AT THIS EMAIL ADDRESS FROM NOW ON.

Response:

You lousy son-of-a-bitch. …

Amazing how the Village Idiot manages to self-destruct every so often. Quite convenient really, it’ll be awhile before anyone has to explain to indignant newbies why the old fool is so despised on ROFF. Hey Zimbo, here’s another classic for ginkstinks.org. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Georgie,    Send nothing.  This is official notice.    Send nothing. Chas – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – George,    If I read this right, you’re claiming that you intend to SPAM us all in ten days if we don’t request that you not do that.  I believe that the insertion of "nospam" in my return address is sufficient notice that I don’t want any unsolicited email.  Others who use their address untampered are already accustomed to SPAM and probably want it.   If you do start a SPAM campaign, I’m sure you’ll incur further wrath here, and I suspect some might launch a SPAM campaign of their own.  I wouldn’t participate in that sort of thing. By no means will I be spamming you.  If I write you at your private e-mail address it will never have spam in it Charlie.  For you or anyone.  I don’t do that sort of thing.  I did it once by mistake and boy, never again.  What I’m saying is you’re welcome to always write me as long there is no spam involved either way, okay? No, I am not claiming that in ten days there will be spam from us.  Yet, what some regard as spam is not. Our new Provider says a special report as we posted which others think is spam in a news group, is NOT.  Neither do they consider commercial comments in normal conversation in chat sites spam.  Spam is when (as far as they are concerned) when one takes a mailing list and puts out a commercial message.   That IS spam and I don’t do that. Two years ago, many on roff gave us the challenge and after two years, we were able to come up with a fly rod for under the challenged price.  We have another surprise but I’m not going to post it here.  Roffians will  have to come to our chat site tommorow and ask about it. Anyhow Chuck, to get the kept promise to the thousands of people who have been waiting, our singular web site would not reach them all as once.  Since the problems and the huge sums spent by me are in part the responsibility and doings of ROFFIANS who egged and prodded and helped and who offered their undying support, the best way to communicate that singular report after two years of effort was to post it on ROFF where it belonged.  ROFF owes me at least THAT! So, what I’m asking you now is this.  We may write to each other e-mails but we agree not to spam.  I can handle that just fine.  I don’t spam on e-mails anyhow but then again, we answer a lot of questions regarding fly fishing and products with e-mail but only when requested. Fair enough Charlie? George Gehrke Get your FREE web-based e-mail and newsgroup access at:                http://MailAndNews.com Create a new mailbox, or access your existing IMAP4 or POP3 mailbox from anywhere with just a web browser.

Response:

<SNIP P.S.  Ordinarily, (until I know for sure) I would post this response to you via e-mail Charlie because it doesn’t belong here for public review.  To me, this should be a private conversation between two reasonable men.

No way you are ever going to have such a private conversation then?   What a pity. Perhaps you will be lucky and find a discussion partner as unreasonable as yourself?  A tall order of course, but doubtless you can do it. You can do everything, you said so yourself, so it must be true. ( Awed whispers from off) ( The Mighty and Unholy Gink bows low, seeming unsure of what he knows for sure, apparently hoping against hope that somebody will jump on his shoulders, and then slithers off on his own slime trail for another we). MC

Response:

Gehrke writes: Snipped redundant remarks:

(giant snip) George, you are insane.  You need help. Dave

Response:

Providers, such as the one we just hired, will allow a commercial post in news/talk groups …

Right up until the time they lose their first upstream feed. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

George, in which legal jurisdiction is your rather dubious looking legal notice enforceable? Certainly not mine, that’s for bloody sure.   You do realise this is a world-wide forum don’t you? If I see spam from you in ROFF again, I will (again) complain to your ISP. If I see spam from you in my mail box, I will complain to your ISP. Nice sales pitch from your new provider BTW, either they are a bigger bullshit artist than you are or they are severely deluded. Steve

Response:

<silliness snipped… All work and no play makes George a dull boy. All work and no play makes George a dull boy. All work and no play makes George a dull boy. All work and no play makes George a dull boy. All work and no play makes George a dull boy. All work and no play makes George a dull boy. All work and no play makes George a dull boy. All work and no play makes George a dull boy. All work and no play makes George a dull boy. All work and no play makes George a dull boy. All work and no play makes George a dull boy…

Response:

Our new Provider says a special report as we posted which others think is spam in a news group, is NOT.  Neither do they consider commercial comments in normal conversation in chat sites spam.  Spam is when (as far as they are concerned) when one takes a mailing list and puts out a commercial message.   That IS spam and I don’t do that.

Ask them if they know what a UDP is. — Charlie…

Response:

<nonsense snipped I would never stand on your shoulders, I am quite careful at avoiding crap on my shoes. Providers can not "allow" commercial posts to newsgroups, it does not lie within their power to do so. Try sending a few, and see what happens. Strange as it may seem, and in spite of your congenital idiocy, I assumed that you would have grasped this relatively simple concept by now.  How many providers have thrown you out?   Forgotten? Oh well, ask the next couple what they think, assuming you are a customer long enough of course. The day I need an explanation of Usenet ( or anything else for that matter), from you, I will shoot myself as being no longer a viable proposition for normal existence. I don

Question:

Ernie has a major league hard-on for The Evil Ginkster… Well, thanks a freakin’ lot for putting that image in my head. Kevin

I don’t believe my dislike of George is any worse than others on ROFF.  Since I put him in my kill file the only posts I see are the ones repeated in another person’s posts.  I can live with that. Ernie

Response:

Tripper I ment Ernie Schwiebert, not Harrison. Did Schwiebert die or something? Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No no no! Nothing so trivial. Ernie has a major league hard-on for The Evil Ginkster…

Response:

Ernie has a major league hard-on for The Evil Ginkster…

Well, thanks a freakin’ lot for putting that image in my head. Kevin

Response:

Is that a pool that the looser comes back in 24 hours? I believe him!  Yes I do, I really think he means it this time!  I trust him to keep his word.   However, I also believe in the tooth fairy, honest and truthful politicians, and the future of the Yugo automobile (I have one, in pristine condition, just waiting for the upsurge in the collectable market)…

Oh, he’s gone, but of course he’ll be back. New ISPs are probably getting harder to find, though.. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyo Before you buy.

Response:

Why? is he dead? (Serious question) Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m pretty sure I know why Ernie is contributing anything. Dave Oops, typo!  Of course this should read, I’m pretty sure I know why Ernie isn’t contributing anything. Dave Before you buy.

Response:

No no no! Nothing so trivial. Ernie has a major league hard-on for The Evil Ginkster… /daytripper (…and he’s packing a Louisville Slugger.) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why? is he dead? (Serious question) Dave I’m pretty sure I know why Ernie is contributing anything. Dave Oops, typo!  Of course this should read, I’m pretty sure I know why Ernie isn’t contributing anything. Dave Before you buy.

Response:

"Look George, if Doug Swisher, Ernie Schwiebert, David Whitlock, Lefty Kreh, aren’t contributing their valuable time to ROFF, why should you

I’d trade in anything those guys had to say for one good posting from Mike Connor. Tight Lines,Shawn

Response:

I’m pretty sure I know why Ernie is contributing anything. Dave

Oops, typo!  Of course this should read, I’m pretty sure I know why Ernie isn’t contributing anything. Dave Before you buy.

Response:

Is that a pool that the looser comes back in 24 hours?

I believe him!  Yes I do, I really think he means it this time!  I trust him to keep his word.   However, I also believe in the tooth fairy, honest and truthful politicians, and the future of the Yugo automobile (I have one, in pristine condition, just waiting for the upsurge in the collectable market)… — Padishar Creel "What do we live for if it is not to make life less difficult to each other."  – George Eliot

Response:

bullshit, i have a 100 bucks that sez you’ll post here again…. c’mon georgie, is it a bet? He did say he’d be back from time to time for the free advertising. — Charlie…

yeah, but he won’t remember saying it. ww

Response:

"Look George, if Doug Swisher, Ernie Schwiebert, David Whitlock, Lefty Kreh, aren’t contributing their valuable time to ROFF, why should you?  They certainly must have good reasons for not doing so.  Have you ever asked yourself the question, why?"

I’m pretty sure I know why Ernie is contributing anything. Dave Before you buy.

Response:

Is that a pool that the looser comes back in 24 hours? ND#1

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I will cease to write for ROFF anymore, any free articles directly because it has been pointed out to me, "Look George, if Doug Swisher, Ernie Schwiebert, David Whitlock, Lefty Kreh, aren’t contributing their valuable time to ROFF, why should you? <snip Adios, Try to stay away a little longer this time Ginko! Ernie Forever wouldn’t be long enough. /daytripper (We ought to start a pool…)

Response:

What was I thinking. I forgot to add that he’ll have a new ISP when he is posting again.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If TSOTS can make it through the night without poosting he’ll be back on Tuesday the 14th. _____  Anyone who wishes to reply to me on this policy must E-mail their comments and opinions because I won’t be reading ROFF anymore and IF any, very little.  Again, I will only be posting notices in the future in ROFF for those who want only the finest information possible regarding American Outdoors/Indoors and Fly Fishing. Secondly, anyone wishing to post articles to me for preservation on our Fly Fishing section may do so.  This way they won’t be posted just once and then lost and out of mind in dejanews.com. — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html        bamboo flyrods & blanks    More Bamboo For Less Money Than     ANY OTHER FLY ROD IN THE WORLD

Response:

bullshit, i have a 100 bucks that sez you’ll post here again…. c’mon georgie, is it a bet?

He did say he’d be back from time to time for the free advertising. — Charlie…

Response:

I will cease to write for ROFF anymore, any free articles directly because it has been pointed out to me, "Look George, if Doug Swisher, Ernie Schwiebert, David Whitlock, Lefty Kreh, aren’t contributing their valuable time to ROFF, why should you? <snip Adios, Try to stay away a little longer this time Ginko! Ernie

Forever wouldn’t be long enough. /daytripper (We ought to start a pool…)

Response:

If TSOTS can make it through the night without poosting he’ll be back on Tuesday the 14th. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – _____  Anyone who wishes to reply to me on this policy must E-mail their comments and opinions because I won’t be reading ROFF anymore and IF any, very little.  Again, I will only be posting notices in the future in ROFF for those who want only the finest information possible regarding American Outdoors/Indoors and Fly Fishing. Secondly, anyone wishing to post articles to me for preservation on our Fly Fishing section may do so.  This way they won’t be posted just once and then lost and out of mind in dejanews.com. — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html        bamboo flyrods & blanks    More Bamboo For Less Money Than     ANY OTHER FLY ROD IN THE WORLD

Response:

Try to stay away a little longer this time Ginko! Ernie

  I will cease to write for ROFF anymore, any free articles directly   because it has been pointed out to me, "Look George, if Doug Swisher,   Ernie Schwiebert, David Whitlock, Lefty Kreh, aren’t contributing their   valuable time to ROFF, why should you? <snip   Adios,

Response:

______ It seems I have, after reviewing the hundreds of fly fishing articles donated by yours truly over the years, is enough to nearly write a well defined book on the subject. I will cease to write for ROFF anymore, any free articles directly because it has been pointed out to me, "Look George, if Doug Swisher, Ernie Schwiebert, David Whitlock, Lefty Kreh, aren’t contributing their valuable time to ROFF, why should you?  They certainly must have good reasons for not doing so.  Have you ever asked yourself the question, why?" Well, I’ve thought about that and it makes sense to me.  Why am I trying so hard to bring fly fishing to a darwinian gang of thugs who really have little interest in the group as a primary fly fishing discussion forum? Why indeed, am I here when all the others refuse to be involved with ROFF?  It seems, ROFF does not sit well with these professionals.   I will write my articles and I will probably make an effort to collect them all from dejanews from over the years, if possible.  What I think I should do is start a pure fly fishing "Book of Gink On Fly Fishing" Web page and list all the articles there. When I write a piece, I will simply just come here and post where everyone interested can key on the ‘Blue Thingie’ that will take them to the World of Gink. I like this idea a lot better than having to listen to all the diatribes from the local drunk to the babbling yuppies in white shirts and ugly ties. Outside that, this new plan goes into motion immediately.   The second nice thing we will be able to do again is renew my visits to http://www.gink.com/chat which IS MONITORED and where the smart asses aren’t tolerated when they demean others or swear or arrive just to troll and cause others to become nauseous of them.  Frankly, like it or not, the Fly Fisherman’s Chat Site around the ole camp fire is much more fun and friendlier and MUCH MORE INTERESTING than anything happening in ROFF.  Roff doesn’t even come close for user friendly compared to Gink’s Fire Side Chat Site.  Pure truth. Those who wish to be civil and visit are welcome starting for me sometime between 6 to 8 PM but going on into the night, time permitting.  Those of you who wish to have your own INSTANT ANSWERING Visiting Room can go there and be in total privacy.  Don’t forget, this chat site http://www.gink.com/chat allows any number of individuals to talk privately and instantly to each other is "Whisper Mode". Anyhow, for sake of good order, the only time I care anymore to visit Roff in the future is to notify fly fishermen of new articles and updates. Incidentally Wayne Harrison, you will see that should you care to visit me/us and some of your old friends at http://www.gink.com/chat  how much more caring and civil we are there compared to what you’ve been living with in ROFF.  The good ole boys, if the truth be known, are not in ROFF anymore.   After this post, I personally wish to invite all you new people a personal invitation to attend and join us at the Home Camp Fires Burning.  http://www.gink.com/chat  Just sign in and use your real name.  Ask any question about fly fishing or fishing in general and there will be someone here to help you. Welcome, one an all to a really top drawer, well moderated free speech without cussing chat room you will ever hope to find. See you around 7 PM this evening everyone. Adios, : ) — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html        bamboo flyrods & blanks    More Bamboo For Less Money Than     ANY OTHER FLY ROD IN THE WORLD

Response:

_____  Anyone who wishes to reply to me on this policy must E-mail their comments and opinions because I won’t be reading ROFF anymore and IF any, very little.  Again, I will only be posting notices in the future in ROFF for those who want only the finest information possible regarding American Outdoors/Indoors and Fly Fishing.   Secondly, anyone wishing to post articles to me for preservation on our Fly Fishing section may do so.  This way they won’t be posted just once and then lost and out of mind in dejanews.com. — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html        bamboo flyrods & blanks    More Bamboo For Less Money Than     ANY OTHER FLY ROD IN THE WORLD

Response:

I will cease to write for ROFF anymore, any free articles directly because it has been pointed out to me, "Look George, if Doug Swisher, Ernie Schwiebert, David Whitlock, Lefty Kreh, aren’t contributing their valuable time to ROFF, why should you?

there’s just one flaw with that argument george…. those guys can write. but hell, don’t let me dissuade ya…. They certainly must have good reasons for not doing so.  Have you ever asked yourself the question, why?"

no, don’t give a rats ass. Well, I’ve thought about that and it makes sense to me.  Why am I trying so hard to bring fly fishing to a darwinian gang of thugs who really have little interest in the group as a primary fly fishing discussion forum?

yeah, why are you? Why indeed, am I here when all the others refuse to be involved with ROFF?  It seems, ROFF does not sit well with these professionals.

bwahahahahahahahahahahaha I will write my articles and I will probably make an effort to collect them all from dejanews from over the years, if possible.  What I think I should do is start a pure fly fishing "Book of Gink On Fly Fishing" Web page and list all the articles there. When I write a piece, I will simply just come here and post where everyone interested can key on the ‘Blue Thingie’ that will take them to the World of Gink.

make it a green thingy george…. green with envy. I like this idea a lot better than having to listen to all the diatribes from the local drunk to the babbling yuppies in white shirts and ugly ties.

we also like it better… see ya georgie-pooh… for the umpteenth time. Outside that, this new plan goes into motion immediately.

bullshit, i have a 100 bucks that sez you’ll post here again…. c’mon georgie, is it a bet? Adios,

see ya here soon…. your pal, waldo

Response:

Question:

Heading for RMNP area for 1 1/2-2 weeks this summer, probably mid to late July. Will be camping for part of the time maybe in or north of the park and then spending 4 days in Estes Park. Looking for advice on places to fish and places to avoid. Mostly interested in smaller streams or shallow lakes. Will be wading-no float tube-with a 7′9" 3/4 wt. Once the family is safely in the confines of a cabin or lodge I may take a solo overnight hike to a more remote lake/stream. Any advice on places and patterns will be greatly appreciated. Thanks Mark

Response:

Fished there last summer around July.  I had a great time on the Thompson and on the headwaters of the Colorado.   Usually we could fish till around 4pm before the thunder and lightning rainstorms drove us for cover.  The further you wandered away from the road, the better the fishing got. Although most fish ran 7-10", there were a few larger and some we saw, but could not get to rise in the gin-clear water, that probably went 21/2 to 3lbs.  A 3/4 short rod is a good choice.  On the west side of the park, the Colorado runs into an area that is filthy with beaver dams.  A stealthy approach to the dams brought non-stop action on brookies and cutthroats. The Estes Park Angler in Estes Park is a good source for fly fishing information.  The fish were not that picky.  However, a lime trude sizes 14-16, worked best.  We also picked up fish on elkhair caddis, yellow humpies, hoppers, and stimulators. Randall S. Davis

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Heading for RMNP area for 1 1/2-2 weeks this summer, probably mid to late July. Will be camping for part of the time maybe in or north of the park and then spending 4 days in Estes Park. Looking for advice on places to fish and places to avoid. Mostly interested in smaller streams or shallow lakes. Will be wading-no float tube-with a 7′9" 3/4 wt. Once the family is safely in the confines of a cabin or lodge I may take a solo overnight hike to a more remote lake/stream. Any advice on places and patterns will be greatly appreciated. Thanks Mark

Response:

Question:

After 40 years of fishing I finally had the time to slow down and start to learn the fine art of feather chucking.  Great way to angle,well worth the time spent. The problem I am having is I have spent 40yrs fishing and guiding  for Kings,Coho,Steelhead and White Sturgeon.I am thinking maybe I should buy a spay rod for these large fish? Does anyone have a recommendation on length of rod and  what type and size of reel.  I have purchased two cheap 6wt rods and spent last summer trying to learn the basics. I spend approx 70 to 80 days a year on rivers,doing Sturgeon research and have most of the day to practice. Also I was wondering if true "fly fishermen" would considering being guided by a "newbie". I have spent my lifetime flying,hiking and jet boating into the lakes and rivers of Central British Columbia. I have been very fortunate and have guided for people that have caught world class fish i.e. 85lb Kings 500lb Sturgeon. Thanks for your time,please advise. "Sturge On"  Gord

Response:

After 40 years of fishing I finally had the time to slow down and start to learn the fine art of feather chucking.  Great way to angle,well worth the time spent.

(snipped) Gord – can’t offer any advice on the spey rod.  I would say, however, that anyone with the experience that you have would be a great guide, regardless of tackle and species.  there was a thread here recently on fly fishing for sturgeon, which didn’t shed much light on the subject, as I recall.  Anyhow, I hope you get some competent advice. Mark Faulkner

Response:

and have guided for people that have caught world class fish i.e. 85lb Kings 500lb Sturgeon. Thanks for your time,please advise. "Sturge On" Gord

What the hell kind of fly would you tie for a 500lb. sturgeon, a poodle, or maybe a schnauzer? Poodle would be fun. Big Al…the poodles pal

Response:

What the hell kind of fly would you tie for a 500lb. sturgeon, a poodle, or maybe a schnauzer? Poodle would be fun. You’d need to xink up that poodle good to get it down, they’re normally high floaters and better for big gar. — Charlie…

Charlie, what about a "bunny"?

Response:

Charlie, what about a "bunny"? that would be a hare’s ear "version", i reckon, al? everything has its place. wayno

I think it is, wayno, I’m going to "demo" one this weekend, weather permitting.

Response:

What the hell kind of fly would you tie for a 500lb. sturgeon, a poodle, or maybe a schnauzer? Poodle would be fun.

You’d need to xink up that poodle good to get it down, they’re normally high floaters and better for big gar. — Charlie…

Response:

Charlie, what about a "bunny"?

        that would be a hare’s ear "version", i reckon, al?         everything has its place. wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Question:

<<  I wasn’t so much scared, though, as hurt. After all I had done for him the damned squirrel never even looked back.  Anyone out there have similar stories they’d like to share?   I think former President Jimmy Carter had something like that happen while fishing too far from Secret Service agents from providing details. William Buchman

Response:

"No good deed goes unpunished."

Response:

Cute story Joe but that’s not being attacked by a squirrel.  Come on down to the Clave and I’ll show you the scars from REALLY being attacked by a squirrel.  Story too long to post here. Wayne To fish is human…to release divine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone out there have similar stories they’d like to share?

Response:

Wayno, swear ta gawd, I never touched ya. Big Al – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cute story Joe but that’s not being attacked by a squirrel.  Come on down to the Clave and I’ll show you the scars from REALLY being attacked by a squirrel.  Story too long to post here. Wayne To fish is human…to release divine. Anyone out there have similar stories they’d like to share?

Response:

No Al, not Wayno, that’s the OTHER Wayne! Wayne To fish is human…to release divine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wayno, swear ta gawd, I never touched ya. Big Al Cute story Joe but that’s not being attacked by a squirrel.  Come on down to the Clave and I’ll show you the scars from REALLY being attacked by a squirrel.  Story too long to post here. Wayne To fish is human…to release divine. Anyone out there have similar stories they’d like to share?

Response:

Cute story Joe but that’s not being attacked by a squirrel.  Come on down to the Clave and I’ll show you the scars from REALLY being attacked by a squirrel.  Story too long to post here. Wayne

is jimmy c. gonna join us? tell him to bring plenty of peanuts and billy beer. –wataugan walt

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cute story Joe but that’s not being attacked by a squirrel.  Come on down to the Clave and I’ll show you the scars from REALLY being attacked by a squirrel.  Story too long to post here. Wayne is jimmy c. gonna join us? tell him to bring plenty of peanuts and billy beer. –wataugan walt

That was a rabbit that went after old Jimmy. — Charlie…

Response:

doggone this grouse….let me go find my sm, memory is slippin…. –Wataugan Waldo – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cute story Joe but that’s not being attacked by a squirrel.  Come on down to the Clave and I’ll show you the scars from REALLY being attacked by a squirrel.  Story too long to post here. Wayne is jimmy c. gonna join us? tell him to bring plenty of peanuts and billy beer. –wataugan walt That was a rabbit that went after old Jimmy. — Charlie…

Response:

 Winter is a lousy time for fishing here in New England. there’s something about that slight two-foot film of ice that inhibits the trout and salmon  rising to your exquisitely presented dry fly; perhaps that slight tap on the head as they slam into the solid wall of ice.  If it’s bad for fishing, though, it’s a great time for contemplating fishing trips of the past. One of my all time favorite days on the water ended without a single fish.  It was one of those perfect fall days when the air is dry and crystal clear, not the best weather for catching but perfect for fishing, if you know what I mean. I was supposed to be at work, but the day was too nice and the feeling of freedom I got from playing hooky from work just added to the enjoyment of the day.  About three miles from the dock I saw something swimming in the water. Stopping to check it out, I found a gray squirrel. He was almost a mile from land and the water was cold. the poor thing swam up to my boat and I could hear it’s claws scraping on the aluminum side as the near-frozen animal tried desperately to get out of the water.  Now I enjoy eating a fish now and then but otherwise consider myself a kindly soul so up picked up my landing net and hoisted the half-frozen rodent out of the water. When I laid it on the seat of my boat it was so cold it just layed there.  Being somewhat foolhardy as well as kindly, I took off my coat, an old Vietnam-era Army jacket, built a nest and placed the cold-cold squirrel inside.  I continued on to my favorite fishing hole and proceeded to cast for smallmouth bass. The sun was getting warmer and the squirrel in my coat would, once in a while let out a little sneeze but was otherwise silent.  After two or three hours of casting, I had totally forgotten about my guest, now comfortably asleep in my coat. I put my rod down and turned to start the motor.  As the motor roared to life, I hard a scrambling sound in back of me and turned to see a gray streak come flying from the front seat, onto the middles seat, onto the small of my back and up my back to the top of my head where it dove off into the water and swam the short 10 feet to shore.  Now I know I was at least 10 miles from the dock but when I returned a couple of the guys there swore they heard me scream.  I wasn’t so much scared, though, as hurt. After all I had done for him the damned squirrel never even looked back.  Anyone out there have similar stories they’d like to share?

Response:

Joe Mitko writes:

(good story mostly snipped) As the motor roared to life, I hard a scrambling sound in back of me and turned to see a gray streak come flying from the front seat, onto the middles seat, onto the small of my back and up my back to the top of my head where it dove off into the water and swam the short 10 feet to shore.

Joe:  great story, but you missed out on some great tying material. Mark Faulkner

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A.P.Dryden schrieb in Nachricht … Okay, I’ll fess up, too. I suck at drinking The Famous Grouse. I’m self-taught, from books. Never had a drinking lesson. :-O -<=== (me, drinking straight from the bottle of life) — A.P. Dryden A Loyal Explorer of The Famous Grouse Share a Wee Dram and a Tall Tale at http://www.famousgrouse.com/explorers Considering my well known and widely praised lyrical laudations of your esteemed beverage, and following a whim, basically engendered by being referred to as a salon fixture, failed  poet and a dumb popcorn fuelled farting ox, which caused me to imbibe freely of the aforementioned excellent beverage, probably due to fear of instant withering, and as a form of preventive medication, I had occasion to wander into your hallowed halls and was shocked to discover a flagrant case of discrimination, as opposed to a fragrant case of whiskey. In order to alleviate the almost fatal shock resulting from this discovery of unquieting enormity, I was obliged to partake of a further half bottle in order to steady my shattered faith in humankind, and restore my constitution and strengthen my unwavering resolve to continue my explorations. How is it sir that only colonials are admitted to your illustrious ranks, by whose decree is one of the highest possible honours ever to be bestowed on a grateful and undeserving multitude only available to members of a formal penal colony ? That juveniles may not be admitted to the glorious ranks is clear, and requires no further enlightenment, but I sir am an Englishman ! I beg you to reconsider your decision, as otherwise I will be forced to send her most regal majesties official diapproval, a tanker load of freeze dried tea,  and an expeditionary force to convince you of our basically peaceful intentions. We ask, nay sir we demand ! that these unjust and unecessarily cruel discriminations cease forthwith, otherwise sir the consequences may be grave indeed, and might well otherwise result in many wantonly resorting to the uncontrolled use of port and brandy. Yours sincerely Michael A.B.Connor  Class of ROFF 99 ( failed ).

   Huh! (didn’t talk till 6, pointen worked jest fine)                                                                John Popp                                                           in Sanford Fl.

Response:

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– While in non-compliance with local decency ordinances the world over, We ask, nay sir we demand ! that these unjust and unecessarily cruel discriminations cease forthwith, otherwise sir the consequences may be grave indeed, and might well otherwise result in many wantonly resorting to the uncontrolled use of port and brandy.

Truly the act of a desperate man. My gawd, I’ve got scotch like nobody’s business, but none of it’s the bird. Anything more expensive than Pete Dawson’s messes me up the morning after. Want some? —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNrB40ZdiUzdLFqlpAQEtvgf/RxrzL00kA35+K1jREtq+eN3IsCfj/EtD Z/F5e5+LjTkNmcMx/ztVxWqlmh7Eiw+yTbeeD1BOXaoFwlqRag8vbAUfHcmXT87A q6PTzOfrU20si/S8sJlYPmwr60mZrfwvlcrMTi5n97qLneppSQrG/lF2dPm0VL3I Bjh4TA4iS62MMx7ouBVWnGE/QQso1anrwSu33JfVHlKGfLQyTiGWM94r2SkOEg2z E1IrQFJCHWpL2cO49udHzsNc55+EVRWqGJyf/VNnMZpT9kxjw+Bk63+DW9EhfPMm aYifNpyGpHzfBQ55/1e9nNO37BeOvSwq0dh/rzzubp0jVg7/xnO0FA== =T2BU —–END PGP SIGNATURE—– Mike S. Medintz, http://www.grapevine.net/~medintz "I’m a liberal conservative. I believe in keeping things the way that  they should have been in the first place." -anon.

Response:

Mike Medintz: <<—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– While in non-compliance with local decency ordinances the world over, We ask, nay sir we demand ! that these unjust and unecessarily cruel discriminations cease forthwith, otherwise sir the consequences may be grave indeed, and might well otherwise result in many wantonly resorting to the uncontrolled use of port and brandy.

Truly the act of a desperate man. My gawd, I’ve got scotch like nobody’s business, but none of it’s the bird. Anything more expensive than Pete Dawson’s messes me up the morning after. Want some? —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNrB40ZdiUzdLFqlpAQEtvgf/RxrzL00kA35+K1jREtq+eN3IsCfj/EtD Z/F5e5+LjTkNmcMx/ztVxWqlmh7Eiw+yTbeeD1BOXaoFwlqRag8vbAUfHcmXT87A q6PTzOfrU20si/S8sJlYPmwr60mZrfwvlcrMTi5n97qLneppSQrG/lF2dPm0VL3I Bjh4TA4iS62MMx7ouBVWnGE/QQso1anrwSu33JfVHlKGfLQyTiGWM94r2SkOEg2z E1IrQFJCHWpL2cO49udHzsNc55+EVRWqGJyf/VNnMZpT9kxjw+Bk63+DW9EhfPMm aYifNpyGpHzfBQ55/1e9nNO37BeOvSwq0dh/rzzubp0jVg7/xnO0FA== =T2BU —–END PGP SIGNATURE—– Mike S. Medintz, http://www.grapevine.net/~medintz "I’m a liberal conservative. I believe in keeping things the way that  they should have been in the first place." -anon. Mike, just curious, but what the hell is all the stuff between "Begin PGP Signature"  and "End PGP Signature"?  And, why is it there? Dave LaCourse

Response:

Okay, I’ll fess up, too. I suck at drinking The Famous Grouse. I’m self-taught, from books. Never had a drinking lesson. :-O -<=== (me, drinking straight from the bottle of life)

A.P., that’s what we need to really get ROFF going, and further irritate those who are complaining about content – drinking lessons. Based on your vast experience, I think you should start with a post or two about techniques for attacking the famous grouse. Mark Faulkner

Response:

A.P.Dryden schrieb in Nachricht … Okay, I’ll fess up, too. I suck at drinking The Famous Grouse. I’m self-taught, from books. Never had a drinking lesson. :-O -<=== (me, drinking straight from the bottle of life) — A.P. Dryden A Loyal Explorer of The Famous Grouse Share a Wee Dram and a Tall Tale at http://www.famousgrouse.com/explorers

Considering my well known and widely praised lyrical laudations of your esteemed beverage, and following a whim, basically engendered by being referred to as a salon fixture, failed  poet and a dumb popcorn fuelled farting ox, which caused me to imbibe freely of the aforementioned excellent beverage, probably due to fear of instant withering, and as a form of preventive medication, I had occasion to wander into your hallowed halls and was shocked to discover a flagrant case of discrimination, as opposed to a fragrant case of whiskey. In order to alleviate the almost fatal shock resulting from this discovery of unquieting enormity, I was obliged to partake of a further half bottle in order to steady my shattered faith in humankind, and restore my constitution and strengthen my unwavering resolve to continue my explorations. How is it sir that only colonials are admitted to your illustrious ranks, by whose decree is one of the highest possible honours ever to be bestowed on a grateful and undeserving multitude only available to members of a formal penal colony ? That juveniles may not be admitted to the glorious ranks is clear, and requires no further enlightenment, but I sir am an Englishman ! I beg you to reconsider your decision, as otherwise I will be forced to send her most regal majesties official diapproval, a tanker load of freeze dried tea,  and an expeditionary force to convince you of our basically peaceful intentions. We ask, nay sir we demand ! that these unjust and unecessarily cruel discriminations cease forthwith, otherwise sir the consequences may be grave indeed, and might well otherwise result in many wantonly resorting to the uncontrolled use of port and brandy. Yours sincerely Michael A.B.Connor  Class of ROFF 99 ( failed ).

Response:

(Frogspritz) writes: Based on your vast experience, I think you should start with a post or two about techniques for attacking the famous grouse.

I’ll start. How to serve Famous Grouse. 1. Open Bottle 2. Get appropriate glass. 3. Pour Famous Grouse down the sink. 4. Pour into the glass an appropiate single malt scotch. 5. Enjoy! Wayne Knight Geneva IL                            

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A.P.Dryden schrieb in Nachricht … Okay, I’ll fess up, too. I suck at drinking The Famous Grouse. I’m self-taught, from books. Never had a drinking lesson. :-O -<=== (me, drinking straight from the bottle of life) — A.P. Dryden A Loyal Explorer of The Famous Grouse Share a Wee Dram and a Tall Tale at http://www.famousgrouse.com/explorers Considering my well known and widely praised lyrical laudations of your esteemed beverage, and following a whim, basically engendered by being referred to as a salon fixture, failed  poet and a dumb popcorn fuelled farting ox, which caused me to imbibe freely of the aforementioned excellent beverage, probably due to fear of instant withering, and as a form of preventive medication, I had occasion to wander into your hallowed halls Yours sincerely

(snip of hilarious stuff) Michael A.B.Connor  Class of ROFF 99 ( failed ).

        wonderfully done, michael!         damn near enough to turn you into an anglophile, isn’t it, taffy ol friend? wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

I figure now is the time to fess up, before you all meet me in NC. Besides the fact that i’m the youngest buck in the group, I suck at flyfishing. I’m self taught, from books. Never had a casting lesson, tying lesson, or any other type of lesson. So you guys leave me alone when I start snagging your clothes and tying masturful blobs of dubbing! Tim Apple P.S. I am very proficient at drinking the Famouse Grouse though.

Response:

I figure now is the time to fess up, before you all meet me in NC. Besides the fact that i’m the youngest buck in the group, I suck at flyfishing. I’m self taught, from books. Never had a casting lesson, tying lesson, or any other type of lesson. So you guys leave me alone when I start snagging your clothes and tying masturful blobs of dubbing! Tim Apple P.S. I am very proficient at drinking the Famouse Grouse though.

Tim, you actually believe we know how to fish? hell wayno’s gonna be cryin in his cabin most of the time mumbling "how did waldo sink that 30′ putt" between gulps of vodka. i’m gonna be runnin to the bank to deposit my winnings and george is gonna be screamin from his cabin "c’mon guys let me out" after we spike his door. some other nameless person will be tending to his animal husbandry. matt will be hungover, won’t be able to fish at all. tom will be playing with his loran equipment. mark will be chasing his southern dreams and wayne will be chasing other game. let’s see, that leaves big al and charlie…. imnsho, probaly damn good fishing pardners fer ya. apologies for any ruffled feathers and especially if i inadvertantly left someone out. –Wataugan "let the clave begin" Walt

Response:

What the hell was that! Speak American, damn it! TWL         Big Al – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I figure now is the time to fess up, before you all meet me in NC. Besides the fact that i’m the youngest buck in the group, I suck at flyfishing. I’m self taught, from books. Never had a casting lesson, tying lesson, or any other type of lesson. So you guys leave me alone when I start snagging your clothes and tying masturful blobs of dubbing! Tim Apple P.S. I am very proficient at drinking the Famouse Grouse though. Tim, you actually believe we know how to fish? hell wayno’s gonna be cryin in his cabin most of the time mumbling "how did waldo sink that 30′ putt" between gulps of vodka. i’m gonna be runnin to the bank to deposit my winnings and george is gonna be screamin from his cabin "c’mon guys let me out" after we spike his door. some other nameless person will be tending to his animal husbandry. matt will be hungover, won’t be able to fish at all. tom will be playing with his loran equipment. mark will be chasing his southern dreams and wayne will be chasing other game. let’s see, that leaves big al and charlie…. imnsho, probaly damn good fishing pardners fer ya. apologies for any ruffled feathers and especially if i inadvertantly left someone out. –Wataugan "let the clave begin" Walt

Response:

I figure now is the time to fess up, before you all meet me in NC. Besides the fact that i’m the youngest buck in the group, I suck at flyfishing. I’m self taught, from books. Never had a casting lesson, tying lesson, or any other type of lesson. So you guys leave me alone when I start snagging your clothes and tying masturful blobs of dubbing! Tim Apple P.S. I am very proficient at drinking the Famouse Grouse though.

*twitch!* ignore. *twitch, twitch* ignore I’m not biting! This monster is drifting down stream. the G fish —

Question:

Joel, you are a man after my own heart.  About the only difference is I fish dry flies and I do have a #1 Hoffman grizzly saddle which ties magnificent dry flies, and each hackle will tie 4 to 7 flies.   Ernie Harrison I’ve learned to become an ecconomical tyer over the years. I have a real

difficult time spending $60 plus on a chicken skin, so when I fish dries it usually comparaduns,

sparkle duns, LaFontaine – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Emergers, terrestrials, etc. They all work and float great and there’s no expensive hackle involved. jka

Response:

 Discounting my time, I figure a fly costs me $0.05-0.10 each to make.

Where do you buy your hooks? I pay over 10 cents each buying them in 100 packs? Willi

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve learned to become an ecconomical tyer over the years. I have a real difficult time spending $60 plus on a chicken skin, so when I fish dries it usually comparaduns, sparkle duns, LaFontaine Emergers, terrestrials, etc. They all work and float great and there’s no expensive hackle involved. <Snip If you got to have all the bells and whistles and if you refuse to improvise a little, sure, you’ll spend a fortune on this hobby. But at this point in the game I spend far less a year on materials than I would on "quality" flies at $1.75 or more each. jka  Have you tried the Tom Thumb? It is THE dry fly in British Columbia. Can be fished as a caddis or mayfly imitation and uses three materials: hook, working thread, and deer hair. It is described in The Gilly. — Vic Brockett Vic’s Fly-By-Night http://www.navicom.com/~vic I’ve learned to become an ecconomical tyer over the years. I have a real difficult time spending $60 plus on a chicken skin, so when I fish dries it usually comparaduns, sparkle duns, LaFontaine Emergers, terrestrials, etc. They all work and float great and there’s no expensive hackle involved. <Snip If you got to have all the bells and whistles and if you refuse to improvise a little, sure, you’ll spend a fortune on this hobby. But at this point in the game I spend far less a year on materials than I would on "quality" flies at $1.75 or more each. jka

 Have you tried the Tom Thumb? It is THE dry fly in British Columbia. Can be fished as a caddis or mayfly imitation and uses three materials: hook, working thread, and deer hair. It is described in The Gilly. — Vic Brockett Vic’s Fly-By-Night http://www.navicom.com/~vic

Response:

<Bulk of excellent reply snipped  Then there are the "secret" patterns, a few of which are not available anywhere but on my vice and that of a couple close friends. Discounting my time, I figure a fly costs me $0.05-0.10 each to make. The time is no big deal, I usually tie on those slow Sundays when I’m actively not watching some sports megaevent on TV, or during the long cold winters here in Maine. tight lines!

Dave I think you hit it right on the head. Tying gives you the ability to produce exactly what you need to catch fish on a consistant basis on your local streams/rivers.  Plus it’s fun, plus, what do you do in Wisconsin when it’s -30 with wind chill in Wisconsin in February???? Tight lines, Steve Hering

Response:

I notice that the responses to this original post are now starting to take on the notion of defending fly tying for its own sake.  A cause which I believe I showed support for in the original post.  Please understand that I love tying flies and that I think it worth every penny I’ve ever spent (and will continue to spend) in the future.  Also, I’m not surprised that some of you out there who fish more often actually do manage to get a ‘volume discount’ on your flies by tying them yourselves. My original intent was meant to coax a wry smile from fellow tiers who are still ‘over capitalized’ with regard to their supply of fly tying materials….and probably will remain so for some time.  My hats off to all of you who have managed to tie economically.  (Actually, I don’t envy you so much for your money saving acumen as I do for the fact that you are probably saving because you go fishing a lot more than I do!)–                                                            -dnc- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here’s one in the "jokes-on-me" category. How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? (Don’t get me wrong.  I get a lot of fun out of tying, and it’s hard to think of anything better than site casting a dry you tied to a fish and having him get fooled.  But I still have to laugh at myself about my initial misconception about tying.)                                                                -dnc-

Response:

D., You obviously haven’t bought your first #1 neck yet.  It’ll more than double your initial $60 outlay.  (And getting that vise for free is cheating!).  If you really get into tying, and you are interested in tying many different patterns, let me know how it all works out, a couple years from now (after your s.o. has left you for a more frugal s.o.).  The $10000 may be an exaggeration (or maybe not, maybe the guy bought some Dodo feathers???), but I have spent at least $500 so far, and I’m not nearly as well set up as some of the really good tyers I know. If you are economically able to tie a variety of flies, and you aren’t lucky enough to have your buddies give you all the necessary materials, I’d be more than happy to suffer the slings and arrows of a ‘told-you-so’ from you (just as long as it’s accompanied by some useful hints on how I might likewise economize)–                                                            -dnc- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – < 10k in equipment?  Not saving money tying flies?  Where you guys shopping?   Just started tying.  ….  [snip] have a total investment of 60 bucks.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? …….But I still have to laugh at myself about my initial misconception about tying.)                                  -dnc- I completely disagree with you.  I figure it costs me less than 50 cents per fly, and I have a less than $10,000 in equipment and materials.   Paul < 10k in equipment?  Not saving money tying flies?  Where you guys shopping? Just started tying.  Vise was free, used, but holds a hook no problems. Bobbin, couple types of scissors, thread, tinsel, wire, dubbing, herl, shaved a few bunnies at a friends ranch, mask, pheasant tail, etc….  I have a total investment of 60 bucks.  I have tied about 40 flies so far. Where I live  40 flies = 40 bucks, at least.  How could you not save money, even eventually as Paul (10k ??? are you serious?  Nah, can’t be.) pointed out.  I spend about 15 bucks avg on flies each trip, at least. Figure30-40 trips a year of varying degrees and I save lots of money every year. Ok, I’m ready to justify that Renzetti to my s.o. D. Howell

Denial!!! Plus, "I’m ready to justify that Renzetti to my s.o."… That’s a sure sign that there’s another one hooked pretty good…. You should save your note and review it and your inventory of tying stuff in five years…. Greg

Response:

– dave’s homepage madness http://www.ime.net/~dbottom  Discounting my time, I figure a fly costs me $0.05-0.10 each to make. Where do you buy your hooks? I pay over 10 cents each buying them in 100 packs? Willi

I got hooks coming out my ears for most styles…but the last box of hooks I bought, 94840’s were about $5.50 so maybe the estimate was slightly low..given that those hooks cost 5.5 cents each, 10 cents is still pretty close on the cost dave — dave’s homepage madness http://www.ime.net/~dbottom

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve learned to become an ecconomical tyer over the years. I have a real difficult time spending $60 plus on a chicken skin, so when I fish dries it usually comparaduns, sparkle duns, LaFontaine Emergers, terrestrials, etc. They all work and float great and there’s no expensive hackle involved. <Snip If you got to have all the bells and whistles and if you refuse to improvise a little, sure, you’ll spend a fortune on this hobby. But at this point in the game I spend far less a year on materials than I would on "quality" flies at $1.75 or more each. jka

 Have you tried the Tom Thumb? It is THE dry fly in British Columbia. Can be fished as a caddis or mayfly imitation and uses three materials: hook, working thread, and deer hair. It is described in The Gilly. — Vic Brockett Vic’s Fly-By-Night http://www.navicom.com/~vic

Response:

How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money?

Initially, I thought that I would save some money.  And in fact, I do (or I will after I tie many more flies).  My problem is that I enjoy tying new and different flies, therefore, I am always adding new materials that keeps the cost per fly high.           I have found that tying my own flies adds a dimension to my fishing.  Every time I tie one, I end up imagining where and what I will catch with it.  Most of all, I enjoy the satisfaction of tying a good fly.  The response from others to what I do has been phenomenal. I love to see the look on people’s faces when I show them a good fly and tell them that I have tied it.  It makes for some great conversation.   All in all it is unbeatable M. Richardson

Response:

Good point.  Actually, given a moderate inflation rate, you may actually break even a few years earlier.  Me too.  Gosh.  I guess I don’t feel so bad now! —                                                            -dnc- Here’s one in the "jokes-on-me" category. How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money?

Paul Wilson responded – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I completely disagree with you.  I figure it costs me less than 50 cents per fly, and I have a less than $10,000 in equipment and materials. What the heck, after the age of 150, I’ll be saving money buddy!

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Its not about saving money!!  If that were the case we wouldn’t be in this sport.  It’s about fooling the bass (trout) into believing that what you tied is for real.  It’s about relaxing and expounding you horizons – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here’s one in the "jokes-on-me" category. How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? (Don’t get me wrong.  I get a lot of fun out of tying, and it’s hard to think of anything better than site casting a dry you tied to a fish and having him get fooled.  But I still have to laugh at myself about my initial misconception about tying.)                                                                -dnc-

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I’ve learned to become an ecconomical tyer over the years. I have a real difficult time spending $60 plus on a chicken skin, so when I fish dries it usually comparaduns, sparkle duns, LaFontaine Emergers, terrestrials, etc. They all work and float great and there’s no expensive hackle involved. Actually, I fish nymphs about 70% or better of the time. You can tie a lot of Pheasant Tails and Hare’s Ears for next to nothing. I figure each fly probably cost me 10-20 cents. The main kicker is that once you a become proficient tyer, you can tye a heck of a lot better fly than you buy I also refuse to spend the extra money for Tiemco hooks. Mustad’s quality and the styles offered have improved over recent years and they’re a heck of a lot more reasonably priced. If you got to have all the bells and whistles and if you refuse to improvise a little, sure, you’ll spend a fortune on this hobby. But at this point in the game I spend far less a year on materials than I would on "quality" flies at $1.75 or more each. jka

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Sandman, When I got into fly fishing it wasn’t expensive.  My entire outfit cost less than $100, and that included fly tying equipment.  I still have much of it today and still use it.  Of course the addiction today is the same as it was then. Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Its not about saving money!!  If that were the case we wouldn’t be in this sport.  It’s about fooling the bass (trout) into believing that what you tied is for real.  It’s about relaxing and expounding you horizons

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How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? …….But I still have to laugh at myself about my initial misconception about tying.)                                  -dnc-

Well I did. over the past 15 years I’ve paid out probably between $600-800 for tools and materials, and at an average cost of $1.50 a fly I’ve probably saved alot. I now have most materials in abundance, perhaps more than I’ll use for the rest of my life. About all I purchase now are hooks, head cement, and occasional spool of thread and hackle every few years, though I do lust after a really good rotating vice, maybe this year…. I go through 50-100 flies a year, and usually give a bunch away to some budding angler, which makes their day. I Also feel that the quality of my flies is much higher than commercial flies, even those bought at premium shops like LL Beans. I have also modified many patterns to fit the local hatches better, and as a result I believe that I catch more and bigger fish. Tying gives you the option to experiment with materials like white skunk, which is very straight and translucent when wet, or to tie up maribou versions of popular streamers like a grey ghost that work much better in moving waters. Then there are the "secret" patterns, a few of which are not available anywhere but on my vice and that of a couple close friends. Discounting my time, I figure a fly costs me $0.05-0.10 each to make. The time is no big deal, I usually tie on those slow Sundays when I’m actively not watching some sports megaevent on TV, or during the long cold winters here in Maine. tight lines!

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In tying, unlike fishing, if you do everything just right, you will definitely be rewarded – with a nice fly! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? D. Howell

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? …….But I still have to laugh at myself about my initial misconception about tying.)                                  -dnc- I completely disagree with you.  I figure it costs me less than 50 cents per fly, and I have a less than $10,000 in equipment and materials.   Paul < 10k in equipment?  Not saving money tying flies?  Where you guys shopping?   Just started tying.  Vise was free, used, but holds a hook no problems. Bobbin, couple types of scissors, thread, tinsel, wire, dubbing, herl, shaved a few bunnies at a friends ranch, mask, pheasant tail, etc….  I have a total investment of 60 bucks.  I have tied about 40 flies so far. Where I live  40 flies = 40 bucks, at least.  How could you not save money, even eventually as Paul (10k ??? are you serious?  Nah, can’t be.) pointed out.  I spend about 15 bucks avg on flies each trip, at least. Figure30-40 trips a year of varying degrees and I save lots of money every year. Ok, I’m ready to justify that Renzetti to my s.o. D. Howell

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Here’s one in the "jokes-on-me" category. How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money?

I did save a lot of money.  The first year I lost so many flies in the trees and bushes that I found they had started their own hatch when I went back the next year.

You are the man, Ernie!  Do you give classes?

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How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? …….But I still have to laugh at myself about my initial misconception about tying.)                                  -dnc- I completely disagree with you.  I figure it costs me less than 50 cents per fly, and I have a less than $10,000 in equipment and materials.   Paul

< 10k in equipment?  Not saving money tying flies?  Where you guys shopping?   Just started tying.  Vise was free, used, but holds a hook no problems. Bobbin, couple types of scissors, thread, tinsel, wire, dubbing, herl, shaved a few bunnies at a friends ranch, mask, pheasant tail, etc….  I have a total investment of 60 bucks.  I have tied about 40 flies so far. Where I live  40 flies = 40 bucks, at least.  How could you not save money, even eventually as Paul (10k ??? are you serious?  Nah, can’t be.) pointed out.  I spend about 15 bucks avg on flies each trip, at least. Figure30-40 trips a year of varying degrees and I save lots of money every year. Ok, I’m ready to justify that Renzetti to my s.o. D. Howell

Response:

Here’s one in the "jokes-on-me" category. How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money?

I did save a lot of money.  The first year I lost so many flies in the trees and bushes that I found they had started their own hatch when I went back the next year. Ernie Harrison

Response:

Here’s one in the "jokes-on-me" category. How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? (Don’t get me wrong.  I get a lot of fun out of tying, and it’s hard to think of anything better than site casting a dry you tied to a fish and having him get fooled.  But I still have to laugh at myself about my initial misconception about tying.)                                                                -dnc-

I completely disagree with you.  I figure it costs me less than 50 cents per fly, and I have a less than $10,000 in equipment and materials. What the heck, after the age of 150, I’ll be saving money buddy! Paul

Response:

Here’s one in the "jokes-on-me" category. How many fly tyers out there got started, like me, because you thought you’d save a lot of money? (Don’t get me wrong.  I get a lot of fun out of tying, and it’s hard to think of anything better than site casting a dry you tied to a fish and having him get fooled.  But I still have to laugh at myself about my initial misconception about tying.)                                                                -dnc-

Response:

Question:

Faster than a broomstick?

Response:

Anyone who claims that Lamiglas rods have slow actions have not cast them. Besides, which line of lamiglas blanks are you referring to G-1000, Certified-Pro, LHS, IM-700? If the higher-end lamiglas blanks have a fault, it is that they are TOO FAST, not too slow.

Lamiglas still makes a line of glass rods.  They are very well made, and have a wonderfully slow action similar to split cane. Their GRAPHITE rods, OTOH, are like lightning. I like their style.  Most folks want a fast rod, but some people don’t, so they make something for everyone. CQ

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(Farkward P. Parkenfarker) writes:    Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly    Organization: Prehensile University    Their rods enjoy a certain cachet among steelheaders.  They have slower    actions than many of the high modulus jobs and many people prefer that.    To be fair, they tend to be a bit heavier than the competition. Anyone who claims that Lamiglas rods have slow actions have not cast them.

I bow before your obviously superior knowledge. Besides, which line of lamiglas blanks are you referring to G-1000, Certified-Pro, LHS, IM-700?

I’ve owned two G1000’s and one LHS.  I used them quite a lot, for steelhead and stripers, and I’m sure I know how they cast.   If the higher-end lamiglas blanks have a fault, it is that they are TOO FAST, not too slow.

I’m not sure what I did to provoke this, but if you insist, I’ll agree that Lamiglas makes the fastest damned rods on the planet. — "…but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States." Article VI, US Constitution

Response:

I own three Lamiglass rods.. Two flyrods and a Salmon/steelhead casting rod. The 8.5 ‘ 6/7 wt I have owned and fished steadily for 17 or 18 years. The 9′ 9wt I purchased three years ago for a trip to Alaska and it has been great. I use the Salmon/Steelhead for just that and some saltwater use as well. I have not seen these rods in the catalogs this year. If you can find them, they are a great buy and a great rod. Dave

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Check out:         www.lamiglas.com -tgades

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Check out their web site: www.lamiglas.com I’ve got quite a few of their rods, and I’m happy with them.  EXCELLENT customer service as well.      -tgades

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I own three Lamiglass rods.. Two flyrods and a Salmon/steelhead casting rod. The 8.5 ‘ 6/7 wt I have owned and fished steadily for 17 or 18 years. The 9′ 9wt I purchased three years ago for a trip to Alaska and it has been great. I use the Salmon/Steelhead for just that and some saltwater use as well. I have not seen these rods in the catalogs this year. If you can find them, they are a great buy and a great rod. Dave

Didn’t they have a fire at their plant a few years back?  I had the impression that they either went out of business or did so temporarily. Their rods enjoy a certain cachet among steelheaders.  They have slower actions than many of the high modulus jobs and many people prefer that. To be fair, they tend to be a bit heavier than the competition. — "…but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States." Article VI, US Constitution

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   Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly    Organization: Prehensile University    Their rods enjoy a certain cachet among steelheaders.  They have slower    actions than many of the high modulus jobs and many people prefer that.    To be fair, they tend to be a bit heavier than the competition. Anyone who claims that Lamiglas rods have slow actions have not cast them. Besides, which line of lamiglas blanks are you referring to G-1000, Certified-Pro, LHS, IM-700? If the higher-end lamiglas blanks have a fault, it is that they are TOO FAST, not too slow. -tgades

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I know nothing of their fly rod blanks, however when I build a custome surf rod for myself or a friend I will use no other blank. They can not be touched !! — "The true Angler is content to fish alone" Brian Di Carlo – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone in the news group have any experience with lamiglas rods? I was curious as to whether they are comparable to any of the more well known brands. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Dry Fly

Response:

WHOA CHARLIE!  Are indicating here that you think "lamiglass" must mean that their fly rods are glass-fiber rods? You say it is a ‘cult’ rod?  Where did you ever come up with such a conclusion?  I would certainly call an Orvis Rod a cult rod… Just thought it should be said that Lamiglass Graphite Fly Rods are top of the line and anyone thinking of buying one couldn’t do better anywhere else in the world.

George, I’m sure you don’t hear it very much in this ng, but, you’re absolutely right! (Once again) my brevity has gotten me into trouble. I will write 1000 times, Lamiglas makes an outstanding graphite rod, one of the best, in as fast an action as anyone would want. I was speaking only of the lamiglas glass rods, which do have a strong following, and given the overwhelming popularity of graphite rods, it could be described as a "cult following".  (agree with you about the orvis comment, but the basis of THAT following is a bit more puzzling!). 8^) That said, the glass blanks (and rods?) are still available, and as far as I know, still in production.  I’m planning on building one this year. A nice 4 or 5 wt for the high country.  Can’t wait. Very glad you spoke up.   Guess I hit the Send button a little early on that one! …I haven’t heard anything about Eric Lieser for a long while.  Anyone know what he’s doing lately? Hell of a song writer too.

Can’t help you with that, but I’ll be looking for the CD… CQ

Response:

Does anyone in the news group have any experience with lamiglas rods? I was curious as to whether they are comparable to any of the more well known brands. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Dry Fly

Response:

Does anyone in the news group have any experience with lamiglas rods? I was curious as to whether they are comparable to any of the more well known brands. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

They are great rods, but more of a cult favorite.   I’m speaking of the glass rods here.  They don’t really compare well to the other more popular brands, as they have a slower action, for a slower, more relaxed, style of fishing; sort of a poor-man’s bamboo. CQ

Response:

Does anyone in the news group have any experience with lamiglas rods? I was curious as to whether they are comparable to any of the more well known brands. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Dry Fly

Sweet stuff mate.  many of the "better" brands use Lamiglass blanks.

Response:

Question:

Does anyone know a mail-order outfit (name, phone num) that carries the velco-tie style of felt-sole wading shoe?

Response:

Does anyone know a mail-order outfit (name, phone num) that carries the velco-tie style of felt-sole wading shoe?

I got a velcro-cloe pair from Hook and Hackle (in NY) a couple of years ago.  They have held up just fine.  They have an 800 #, but its at home and I’m not….  They usually advertise in the fly fishing magazines…. Nat Davis Virginia Tech.

Response:

Path:

msuinfo!uwm.edu!psuvax1!news.pop.psu.edu!hudson.lm.com!godot.cc.duq.edu!new s.du
ke.edu!solaris.cc.vt.edu!usenet – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Organization: Virginia Tech, Blacksburg, Virginia Lines: 14 NNTP-Posting-Host: dulcimer.ee.vt.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-NUPop-Charset: English Does anyone know a mail-order outfit (name, phone num) that carries the velco-tie style of felt-sole wading shoe? I got a velcro-cloe pair from Hook and Hackle (in NY) a couple of years ago.  They have held up just fine.  They have an 800 #, but its at home and I’m not….  They usually advertise in the fly fishing magazines…. Nat Davis Virginia Tech.

The brand of velcro-ties I have is Pro-Line; they have held up for two seasons, and are great to have with cold, gloved hands. Mine are one size larger than my normal shoe size for the neoprenes. I bought mine at a store in Kalamazoo, but I have seen them in Bass Pro and other catalogs. Jim Johnson Michigan State University

Response:

Does anyone know a mail-order outfit (name, phone num) that carries the velco-tie style of felt-sole wading shoe? I got a velcro-cloe pair from Hook and Hackle (in NY) a couple of years ago.  They have held up just fine.  They have an 800 #, but its at home and I’m not….  They usually advertise in the fly fishing magazines…. Nat Davis Virginia Tech.

Hook and Hackle’s number is 1-800-552-8342.  The shoes in question are made by Pro-Line and cost $32.25.  I bought Pro-Line’s 44mm neoprene stocking-foot waders from H&H for $65 and have been reasonably satisfied with the product. Hook and Hackle respond efficiently and have good prices. Peter Just

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