Question:

Mike Connor writes: "Waiter, there is a fly in my soup". "Is it black sir ?". "No".  "Oh good, then you wont need the rubber bands".

ROFL.  Woke up the dog!  Best esoterica and it immediately goes into the roff hall of shame.  Thanks, Mike. Dave LaCourse "We can’t change the winds, but….. we can adjust our sails!!"

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Waldo writes: Ignore all of the advice you have heard here.  I live in Ontario, the black fly capital of the world.  Don’t wash for 5 days then go fishing – nothing will bite you – promise.  Taste your skin after five days without soap and water – tastes bitter – tastes that way to the bugs too.  Our skin has a natural repellent but we keep washing it off. And I’m serious – worked for me in the North West Territories.  Five days in the bush and about half a dozen bites.  Ten minutes in Yellowknife after a shower and I swear every f*****g bug within half a mile had taken a chunk. Peter damn, no wonder mark looked green every mornin down in almond waldo

Yeah, and HE was immune from all the flying biters too.  Of course, this explains a lot about Peter’s truck… Dave LaCourse "We can’t change the winds, but….. we can adjust our sails!!"

Response:

Blackflies are part of the northwoods experience and an indicator of the right time to go fishing: i.e., the thicker the flies (usually) the better the fishing. Deep-Woods Off (40 percent DEET) will keep them more or less at bay and do so about as well as the 100-percent DEET products like Repel or Ben’s, with less damage to you and your equipment. Here in Maine we pretty much slather it on all day in fly season, which for us lasts from around the last of May until mid-July in the Penobscot drainage. As you can see, avoiding fly season means avoiding fishing season. By time the flies are gone, so is the runoff water and many of the trout, at least the accessible ones. Some folks wear bug jackets with gloves, and these work pretty well with some restriction in mobility and vision; you can’t really follow your fly very well through a headnet. The better bug jackets are those made of tightly woven cotton with mesh panels at the front of the hood and under the arms for ventilation. The all-mesh jackets tear up pretty quickly in the puckerbrush and they don’t even slow mosquitoes down, as they can drill right through the mesh wherever it touches you. The secret to dealing with blackflies is not in eliminating the pain of their bites but in not minding the pain of their bites. After a while you get used to it. If you smoke, keep a cheap cigar or reeky pipe tobacco going as a smudge pot; after a while you’ll hardly notice the little buggers. JRB

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m planning to do some fishing in the central and northern Adirondacks this summer and am trying to get up there when the dreaded black flies aren’t. Anyone have any experience with this little monster? If I were there, say, end of June, would I be slaughtered? Thanks Dave

Response:

Hell, if THAT works, then smokin’ a blunt will work even better. /daytripper (I mean, if *numb* is what you want…)

Works on moose apparently. Peter email is spam blocked – remove first ’s’

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Long sleeve shirts AND rubber bands around wrists. I recommend a head net also if you absolutely must go into the northwoods during blackfly season. I do not. I don’t go after late May or before late August. Not the Adirondacks but northern Ontario. — Ken Fortenberry What a wussy flatlander you are.  <g Best fishing is during black fly season. Dave L.

What’s a black fly? Peter (snicker) email is spam blocked – remove first ’s’

Response:

I’m planning to do some fishing in the central and northern Adirondacks this summer and am trying to get up there when the dreaded black flies aren’t.   Anyone have any experience with this little monster?   If I were there, say, end of June, would I be slaughtered? Thanks Dave

Ignore all of the advice you have heard here.  I live in Ontario, the black fly capital of the world.  Don’t wash for 5 days then go fishing – nothing will bite you – promise.  Taste your skin after five days without soap and water – tastes bitter – tastes that way to the bugs too.  Our skin has a natural repellent but we keep washing it off. And I’m serious – worked for me in the North West Territories.  Five days in the bush and about half a dozen bites.  Ten minutes in Yellowknife after a shower and I swear every f*****g bug within half a mile had taken a chunk. Peter email is spam blocked – remove first ’s’

Response:

"Waiter, there is a fly in my soup". "Is it black sir ?". "No".  "Oh good, then you wont need the rubber bands". TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Response:

Ignore all of the advice you have heard here.  I live in Ontario, the black fly capital of the world.  Don’t wash for 5 days then go fishing – nothing will bite you – promise.  Taste your skin after five days without soap and water – tastes bitter – tastes that way to the bugs too.  Our skin has a natural repellent but we keep washing it off. And I’m serious – worked for me in the North West Territories.  Five days in the bush and about half a dozen bites.  Ten minutes in Yellowknife after a shower and I swear every f*****g bug within half a mile had taken a chunk. Peter

damn, no wonder mark looked green every mornin down in almond waldo

Response:

I grew up in the area you are thinking of hitting this summer. Usually in July, the biggest pain in the butt isn’t the blackflies, but the horseflies and deerflies. One of these things is worse than a 1000 blackflies when it comes to the bite. I find that if you use deep woods cutter, they leave you alone. If you eat a banana, you will not make it more than 10 feet into the woods before you are chewed to bits. The blackflies will usually be out that time of year in the earlier dusk, then it’s the mosquitos. The last couple of years they haven’t been all that bad. Good luck up there. Any questions on where to go in the area between Watertown and Lake Placid, let me know. I may even be able to set you up with a free guide of the area, or I may be in the area then myself. Just drop a line. Gordo The worst day on the water beats the best day in the office. Gordo

Response:

 deer flies have a tendency to land of the back of your head.  As stupid as this idea sounds, it really works.  I have come in after a day of fishing to find as many as twenty deer flies stuck on the back of my hat.

    why not demonstrate your altruistic nature and send a few patches to petah charles for application to his crotch somewhere around the third day out… wayno

Response:

I grew up in the area you are thinking of hitting this summer. Usually in July, the biggest pain in the butt isn’t the blackflies, but the horseflies and deerflies. One of these things is worse than a 1000 blackflies when it comes to the bite. I find that if you use deep woods cutter, they leave you alone. If you eat a banana, you will not make it more than 10 feet into the woods before you are chewed to bits.

I am the pate de foie gras of the biting insect world, the lobster thermidor, the hollandaise sauce.  There is nothing in this world which will dissuade them from sampling me if the opportunity presents itself.  Black flies, mosquitos, deer flies, chiggers, horse flies, no-see-ums, and ticks will drink a pool of DEET if they think I am at the bottom of the pool.  Sadly, it seems to be a matter of individual body chemistry.  It makes no difference whether I am sterilized or wallowing in eight days of filth.  Copious clouds of cigarette smoke annoy them but will not keep them from biting. Thus far, deer flies are the only biting insects for which I have found an effective deterrent, and this is so bizarre that most people will probably not believe it.  I didn’t myself until I actually tried it.  Tred-Not deerfly patches are pieces of fly paper with a sticky side that is attached to the back of your hat, and a VERY sticky side that traps flies when they land on it.  For reasons unknown to me, deer flies have a tendency to land of the back of your head.  As stupid as this idea sounds, it really works.  I have come in after a day of fishing to find as many as twenty deer flies stuck on the back of my hat.  These things are made by a company called Detex in Michigan.  I know they have a web site but I’ve lost the address.  However they are available at the following URL: http://www.biconet.com/traps/deerflyPatch.html

Response:

Yes, You will be feeding the little buggers. Some tips: rubber bands around wrists. Rubber bands around wrists??? Inquiring minds want to know.      - Ken

the rubber bands cut off all circulation, making the hands numb and unable to feel any bites <G.   chris

Response:

I’m planning to do some fishing in the central and northern Adirondacks this summer and am trying to get up there when the dreaded black flies aren’t. Anyone have any experience with this little monster? If I were there, say, end of June, would I be slaughtered? Thanks Dave

I spent a month one day in northern NH because of the black flies.  I have found that they peak early, usually in late May, early June.  There may be some around in late June, but if you use deet, they will stay away.  Puffing on a cigar will help, just puff away like your Clinton.  <g When I say "deet", I mean the 100% stuff.  It is baaaaad stuff, but it will keep them away.  Use in on your clothes, especially your hat, and use normal bug juice with a high concentrate of deet on exposed areas.  Do not expose your fly line or your fly rod to deet. I fish Labrador the 1st week in July each year, and black flies and mosquitos are as bad as anywhere.  Dress with long sleeves (a sweat shirt is good), or, a cotton turtle neck jersey is even better — it will protect your arms AND neck.  Wear fingerless gloves, and put them on after you have used the bug juice. Wear a hat and spray it well with deet.  I have found that bug jackets are inaffective with black flies.  They pile up on the front and after awhile, you can not see.  <g  But you *are* water proof.  d;0) Dave LaCourse "We can’t change the winds, but….. we can adjust our sails!!"

Response:

Long sleeve shirts AND rubber bands around wrists. I recommend a head net also if you absolutely must go into the northwoods during blackfly season. I do not. I don’t go after late May or before late August. Not the Adirondacks but northern Ontario. — Ken Fortenberry

What a wussy flatlander you are.  <g Best fishing is during black fly season. Dave L.      —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free Usenet News via the Web  —–      —–  http://newsone.net/ —  Discussions on every subject. —–    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts

Response:

DJ     Generally speaking, blackflies in areas that far North have already peaked and are more likely to be just a mild nuisance in the evening. I take my vacation 4th of July week here in Maine, partly because the worst of the blackflies is past, and partly because there’s still good surface activity on our trout ponds. Late June should be bearable in that regard.

Last week in June is well into the decline of blackflies in the Adirondacks–in a normal year.  For the last couple summers it’s been harder to predict them, but everybody I know said they were not as bad as usual.  In 1997 I hiked across the whole park in late June, and the blackflies were barely around.  That was almost a bummer, because after a dozen mosquito bites, one gets nostalgic for a neckfull of blackfly welts. DS

Response:

Couple of things no one has mentioned black flies tend to bit more around areas that have a pulse wrists behind the ears ankles If you get Deet on nylon it’s shot it turns into sticky mess that doesn’t dry Rub dirt on your hands after putting on your bug spray Pick up some afterbite to take the sting away they come in containers a little bigger than a pen. Bring lots of friends they might find them more delicious

Response:

It keeps your sleeve ends closed !  Works on trousers too. Strip of Velcro is better, does not cut off the circulation. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes, You will be feeding the little buggers. Some tips: rubber bands around wrists. Rubber bands around wrists??? Inquiring minds want to know.      - Ken — "That said, I *am* an unabashed Animal Rights supporter. I *WOULD*  vote to make C&R illegal." – Tim Walker "Ethical conduct is purely a personal thing, and the only  arbiter of personal ethics is your own conscience."  - Mike Connor

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes, You will be feeding the little buggers. Some tips: rubber bands around wrists. Rubber bands around wrists??? Inquiring minds want to know.      - Ken the rubber bands cut off all circulation, making the hands numb and unable to feel any bites <G.   chris

Hell, if THAT works, then smokin’ a blunt will work even better. /daytripper (I mean, if *numb* is what you want…)

Response:

I’m planning to do some fishing in the central and northern Adirondacks this summer and am trying to get up there when the dreaded black flies aren’t.   Anyone have any experience with this little monster?   If I were there, say, end of June, would I be slaughtered? Thanks Dave

Response:

The worst day I ever had with black flies was in 1975 in Franklin Landing were Great Bear River flows out of Great Bear Lake. There was no breeze to keep the flies down. Everywhere you looked you saw little black dots the white walls of the ship were black with flies one of the deckhands had to be taken by the hand to his room as his eyes had swollen shut from black fly bites. I put two sweaters on to try and add more distance between me and the flies they would burrow through the wool and still bite. I think I went through two or three cans of bug spray.I’ve been all over the North and that was hellish day. If it’s a dead calm day I would think twice about a hike through the bush.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m planning to do some fishing in the central and northern Adirondacks this summer and am trying to get up there when the dreaded black flies aren’t. Anyone have any experience with this little monster? If I were there, say, end of June, would I be slaughtered? Thanks Dave

Response:

DJ     Generally speaking, blackflies in areas that far North have already peaked and are more likely to be just a mild nuisance in the evening. I take my vacation 4th of July week here in Maine, partly because the worst of the blackflies is past, and partly because there’s still good surface activity on our trout ponds. Late June should be bearable in that regard.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m planning to do some fishing in the central and northern Adirondacks this summer and am trying to get up there when the dreaded black flies aren’t. Anyone have any experience with this little monster? If I were there, say, end of June, would I be slaughtered? Thanks Dave

Response:

Yes, You will be feeding the little buggers. Some tips: don’t wear anything blue. don’t use anything scented (soaps, etc) rubber bands around wrists. Where abouts are you planning on fishing. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m planning to do some fishing in the central and northern Adirondacks this summer and am trying to get up there when the dreaded black flies aren’t. Anyone have any experience with this little monster? If I were there, say, end of June, would I be slaughtered? Thanks Dave

Response:

Yes, You will be feeding the little buggers. Some tips: rubber bands around wrists.

Rubber bands around wrists??? Inquiring minds want to know.      - Ken — "That said, I *am* an unabashed Animal Rights supporter. I *WOULD*  vote to make C&R illegal." – Tim Walker "Ethical conduct is purely a personal thing, and the only  arbiter of personal ethics is your own conscience."  - Mike Connor

Response:

Rubber bands around wrists??? Inquiring minds want to know.

Long sleeve shirts AND rubber bands around wrists. I recommend a head net also if you absolutely must go into the northwoods during blackfly season. I do not. I don’t go after late May or before late August. Not the Adirondacks but northern Ontario. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Dave writes-re: Blackflies I’m planning to do some fishing in the central and northern Adirondacks this summer and am trying to get up there when the dreaded black flies aren’t.   Anyone have any experience with this little monster?   If I were there, say, end of June, would I be slaughtered?

Yes. Prepare yourself with a pure-DEET type repellant, plus cigars and cigarettes keep them back a few feet. Despite all efforts, if out for a days fishing, expect to be bitten heavily. It’s worth noting, some of my best fishing for trout, both in PA and New England have been when blackflies were fierce….they are aquatic hatches as well.                           Tom Littleton

Response:

Question:

I agree…I’ll never forget …I sent a friends brother a joke and of course the header contained all the addresses and names of other friends….this guy ’s brother sent everyone of them ads for his vitamins etc….I was very up[set that this guy would take advantage.. But people will do anything for a buck and fly fishing is no exception!

Response:

rummy,                                                                                  I think they all do it everywhere!It ain’t just here!From   Mr. G to me. (don’t confuse us though)Whether it’s proper or not I’m not sure !Oh by the way if your planning a trip to the Smokies I live here & I’m a guide & fltyer who specializes in southern appalachian patterns if you need any contact me at

Response:

What’s your point! Wayne to fish is human…to release divine (junk snipped)  comments on the above would be very interesting. Tom Montauk Point

Response:

Anybody notice how many more ads are appearing on this site in the guise of good ol boy conversation. Everything from folksy advise and down home humor from tackle store owners who just happen to include their address and phone number to a guy trying to push his fly line and wax as a gesture of frienship to us all.   No matter how you cut it, they are commercial solicitations for business.   Is this what we want?  Is this the future of this site?  If this is what the majority wants its fine with me but it is a sure bet if this type of folksy ill-disguised  hustling continues unabated, it will eventually take over. comments on the above would be very interesting. Tom Montauk Point

Hi Tom:         Two of the people that I have the most respect for, on this group, are Bill Kiene and Al Beatty. Al’s been gone mostly since taking a job with Hoffman Hackle and that was our loss, especially in the area of tying techniques. Bill’s been a great source of info regarding product and destinations. I’ve never seen a post from either of them that they didn’t offer some valuable information often to questions that they’ve answered many times over the last few years.         Tag lines can also give some basis for credability in an uncontrolled medium that has more than it’s share of poor information. Bill knows what product passes through his store and how satisfied his clients are with that product. In a retail position he also handles and uses a lot more stuff than most of us are familiar with or will use in several years. When someone asks about travel destinations or lodges he can offer some good objective information as someone that’s been to a number of different places, rather than a guy that made one trip several years ago. The guy that went to Mexico once can offer some helpful info based on his trip but the guy I really want to hear from is the one who has been there at several different times, seasons and locations. He’s got the experience to compare one place or time from another.         I’ve been guiding in Southwest Alaska for several years and lived on the Kenai Peninsula prior to that. I generally restrict my responses to guestions of those areas,and when I do respond I’ll usually include the name of the lodge where I work.         I’ve been on this group since 93 and I post very little and read perhaps 10% of the threads here each day. I lost my interest a long time ago in answering another thread on the best way to tie on a dropper or how to cast with lead. I do however have a lot of respect for guys like Bill and Al that have offered  a lot of very good and objective information over the years and I’ve never seen them hyping themselves or their products. Jim McGrath

Response:

amazingly witty words: Anybody notice how many more ads are appearing on this site in the guise of good ol boy conversation. Everything from folksy advise and down home humor from tackle store owners who just happen to include their address and phone number to a guy trying to push his fly line and wax as a gesture of frienship to us all.   No matter how you cut it, they are commercial solicitations for business.   Is this what we want?  Is this the future of this site?  If this is what the majority wants its fine with me but it is a sure bet if this type of folksy ill-disguised  hustling continues unabated, it will eventually take over. comments on the above would be very interesting. Tom Montauk Point

I feel there are two types of advertising.  On the one side there is the advertising that is actually benifitial to the consumer (and I don’t mean by the product being advertised).  For example, television commercials pay for the programing seen on the t.v., banners on websites allow for certain websites to remain open, etc.   Then there is the unacceptable (in my opinion) advertising.  For example, junk mail (I hate it), road side billboards (I hate ‘em even more), and spam (I REALLY hate this!).  This type of advertising does not provide the consumer with anything in return for the advertising. Now I bring up the point I want to make, Mr. G.  Where does he fall in these catagories?  Well, I feel that he (other than the accidental mass mailing) falls within the former.  He advertises in this group but, he also contributes more than probably 75% of the people that read ROFF.  Personally, I don’t like the advertising (I hate almost every form of it) but I feel that since Mr. G contributes so much to this group, he has earned the right to advertise (if you don’t like it, don’t read his posts). Brian (the slightly drunk and pondering) Hailey

Response:

 ….    Two of the people that I have the most respect for, on this group, are Bill Kiene and Al Beatty. Al’s been gone mostly since taking a job with Hoffman Hackle and that was our loss, especially in the area of tying techniques. Bill’s been a great source of info regarding product and destinations. …..

I talked to Al last night at the San Meteo Show and yes he is up to his neck in Hoffman feathers. He doesn’t read hear much or for that matter even post. He said he could be reached at the boards at the flyhop.com, mainly because he is the main judge of all the tying contests that Hoffman sponsors. — Doug Knight                                     metalfab<atpacbell.net Junk e-mail, solicitation, sales, products and services gladly accepted at $500.00 per mailing and billed directly to your ISP.

Response:

Very good point. The question is what can we do about it? It’s fine and dandy foe someone to advertize a personal sale of a rod, reel or other item he has no use for, but to push their commercial goods on this newsgroup is really cheap! Advertise in one or all of the many publications available. I’m sure more sales will come of that and less flyfishers will be offended. We need this space to share, inquire and discuss our hobby & sport. I don’t have the time or inclination to navigate through so much spam to find an interestig message. Get off our turf! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anybody notice how many more ads are appearing on this site in the guise of good ol boy conversation. Everything from folksy advise and down home humor from tackle store owners who just happen to include their address and phone number to a guy trying to push his fly line and wax as a gesture of frienship to us all.   No matter how you cut it, they are commercial solicitations for business.   Is this what we want?  Is this the future of this site?  If this is what the majority wants its fine with me but it is a sure bet if this type of folksy ill-disguised  hustling continues unabated, it will eventually take over. comments on the above would be very interesting. Tom Montauk Point

Response:

Tom your right that this is an interesting issue. I’d be interested to hear what other think as well. There is no question that get rich quick and send money message (or those promoting sex sites) are not appropriate for this board but what about those message that are related to fly fishing. I mean this is a fly fishing board and posts whether promoting a fly fishing product or a fly fishing site I think should be allowed and welcomed as this is related to the topic of the newsgroup right? Much like a fly fishing magazine you have great articles editorials, heck in resources like events listed and among all those great articles and resource you have ad related to the topic of the magazine promoting products and services related to fly fishing. It would be one thing to have someone post everyday saying the same thing its another thing when someone posts once a week or twice a month about something related to fly fishing that others might enjoy right? How does everyone feel about this. I’m very interested in others views as this has become a continuing problems for business owners, site owners, and newsgroup viewers as well as the general public related to spam message and unsolicited email and such. Thanks for bring this up Tom it was a good idea to get everyone talking about this. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anybody notice how many more ads are appearing on this site in the guise of good ol boy conversation. Everything from folksy advise and down home humor from tackle store owners who just happen to include their address and phone number to a guy trying to push his fly line and wax as a gesture of frienship to us all.   No matter how you cut it, they are commercial solicitations for business.   Is this what we want?  Is this the future of this site?  If this is what the majority wants its fine with me but it is a sure bet if this type of folksy ill-disguised  hustling continues unabated, it will eventually take over.  comments on the above would be very interesting. Tom Montauk Point

Response:

Anybody notice how many more ads are appearing on this site in the guise of good ol boy conversation. Everything from folksy advise and down home humor from tackle store owners who just happen to include their address and phone number to a guy trying to push his fly line and wax as a gesture of frienship to us all.

Yeah, I know how you feel. It used to bum me out too until I downloaded SpamOff!  (the usenet nntp filtering software that removes spam on the fly) from http://www.spamoff.com !   No matter how you cut it, they are commercial solicitations for business.   Is this what we want?  Is this the future of this site?  

It’s not what I want! In fact I think it’s high time we took charge of this situation.  A good first step is probably downloading SpamOff! from http://www.spamoff.com Maybe if none of us read their stupid ads they’ll go away! If this is what the majority wants its fine with me but it is a sure bet if this type of folksy ill-disguised  hustling continues unabated, it will eventually take over.

Sometimes I feel like it already has! Or I used to, anyway, in the pre-SpamOff! days. The days before some kind soul pointed me toward http://www.spamoff.com where I found the usenet nntp filtering software that removes spam on the fly.  comments on the above would be very interesting.

Actually there might be some more comments on one of my favorite WWW discussion forums, http://www.spamoff.com, there’s a message board on these types of issues on that site. (PS: While you’re there you might want to download a FREE demo version of SpamOff! It’s the usenet nntp filtering software that removes spam on the fly!)

Response:

Anybody notice how many more ads are appearing on this site in the guise of good ol boy conversation. Everything from folksy advise and down home humor from tackle store owners who just happen to include their address and phone number to a guy trying to push his fly line and wax as a gesture of frienship to us all. Yeah, I know how you feel. It used to bum me out too until I downloaded SpamOff!  (the usenet nntp filtering software that removes spam on the fly) from http://www.spamoff.com !

Is this a spam for SpamOff? BTW, I couldn’t find a DNS entry for that URL. Maybe their server is down, or maybe they no longer exist.

Response:

Yeah, I know how you feel. It used to bum me out too until I downloaded SpamOff!  (the usenet nntp filtering software that removes spam on the fly) from http://www.spamoff.com ! Is this a spam for SpamOff? BTW, I couldn’t find a DNS entry for that URL. Maybe their server is down, or maybe they no longer exist.

It was a joke…or at least that’s what I took it to be. Cute though.      - Ken — "Time is but the stream I go a-fishin in. I drink at it, but while I drink I see the sandy bottom and detect how shallow it is. It’s thin current slides away, but eternity remains."     – H.D. Thoreau

Response:

        Two of the people that I have the most respect for, on this group, are Bill Kiene and Al Beatty. Al’s been gone mostly since taking a job with Hoffman Hackle and that was our loss, especially in the area of tying techniques. Bill’s been a great source of info regarding product and destinations. I’ve never seen a post from either of them that they didn’t offer some valuable information often to questions that they’ve answered many times over the last few years.

snip Jim – I agree completely.  Has the sun returned yet up there? mark Faulkner

Response:

Smokey,     I come down to the smokey’s 3 or 4 times a year (sometimes I fish the motor trail on the north end of the park) Maybe we can hook up a time or two this year if the price is right ! Good Luck David – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – rummy,          I think they all do it everywhere!It ain’t just here!From   Mr. G to me. (don’t confuse us though)Whether it’s proper or not I’m not sure !Oh by the way if your planning a trip to the Smokies I live here & I’m a guide & fltyer who specializes in southern appalachian patterns if you need any contact me at

Response:

(the usenet nntp filtering software that removes spam on the fly) from http://www.spamoff.com !

If you have spam on the fly, wouldn’t that be considered bait fishing?? Inquiring minds want to know. George Adams

Response:

Anybody notice how many more ads are appearing on this site in the guise of good ol boy conversation. Everything from folksy advise and down home humor from tackle store owners who just happen to include their address and phone number to a guy trying to push his fly line and wax as a gesture of frienship to us all.   No matter how you cut it, they are commercial solicitations for business.   Is this what we want?  Is this the future of this site?  If this is what the majority wants its fine with me but it is a sure bet if this type of folksy ill-disguised  hustling continues unabated, it will eventually take over.  comments on the above would be very interesting. Tom Montauk Point

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -My roomate and I want to go on a week long vacation sometime between 12/18 and 1/3   I want to be on a beach and outside of the US.  We’re flying out of NYC with a budget of approx $1100 each.  We may be able to use frequent flyer miles for the air.  Last year we went to Costa Rica and loved it, but want to try somewhere else. WE are flying out of New York and would like to stay within 5 hours of flight time. Everything either appears to be sold out or too expensive. Any recommendations? Thanks, Michelle

Michelle, I have been going to Belize for the last few years. Lots of eco/jungle stuff on the mainland, jungle rivers and Maya ruins. Life on the islands/cayes is very nice. Fishing, snorkeling, scuba, boating and sight seeing is great. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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The Dominican Republic.  It should fit nicely into your budget and that would be for an all-inclusive resort.  We went to Paradise Beach Club in Puerto Plata a few years ago for $900. each. There are flights now directly into Punta Cana and there are specials on three resorts there for under to just above your budget; again for all inclusive resorts – all meals, drinks, activities. This year we went to Punta Cana and loved the beach there.  Had a wonderful vacation.  If you want specifics, e me directly. Kathy Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not to your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him and He will direct your paths.  Proverbs 3:5-6

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -My roomate and I want to go on a week long vacation sometime between 12/18 and 1/3 I want to be on a beach and outside of the US.  We’re flying out of NYC with a budget of approx $1100 each.  We may be able to use frequent flyer miles for the air.  Last year we went to Costa Rica and loved it, but want to try somewhere else. WE are flying out of New York and would like to stay within 5 hours of flight time. Everything either appears to be sold out or too expensive. Any recommendations? Thanks, Michelle

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My roomate and I want to go on a week long vacation sometime between 12/18 and  1/3 I want to be on a beach and outside of the US.  We’re flying out of NYC with a  budget of approx $1100 each.  We may be able to use frequent flyer miles for  the air.  Last year we went to Costa Rica and loved it, but want to try  somewhere else. WE are flying out of New York and would like to stay within 5 hours of flight  time. Everything either appears to be sold out or too expensive. Any recommendations? Thanks, Michelle

Have you looked at Cancun, Mexico. A few years ago we stayed at the Club Las Velas.  It was all-inclusive, under $1000. had real good entertainment and a young party mood crowd if that is what you like. The food was pretty good and the rooms were not fancy but clean.  They are not directly on the ocean but on  the canal and have a boat that takes you to a beach club. (They do have their own beach on the canal with kayaks, sailboats, snorkling)  There are a lot of other things to see in the area also. and you can hop a bus for 30 cents right in front of the hotel and go anywhere you want on the strip – shopping, beach, restaurants, clubs, other hotels.  We also felt very safe there as it is geared to the tourist.  Check with your travel agents.  Marianne — Visit "The Grand Isle Connection" http://www.GrandIsle.together.com

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My roomate and I want to go on a week long vacation sometime between 12/18 and 1/3 I want to be on a beach and outside of the US.  We’re flying out of NYC with a budget of approx $1100 each.  We may be able to use frequent flyer miles for the air.  Last year we went to Costa Rica and loved it, but want to try somewhere else. WE are flying out of New York and would like to stay within 5 hours of flight time. Everything either appears to be sold out or too expensive. Any recommendations? Thanks, Michelle

If you look at our BVI pages, below, you’ll see our preferences If you check with the major bareboat outfits, you might find an all-inclusive trip within your budget. They usually have a by-the-cabin charter running with one of their professional captains for a very reasonable price. Trouble is that you’re going during the absolute peak of the Caribbean season, but if you can swing it, all your land-based vacations will fade into a hazy memory. On my 4th trip, I introduced Pat to the BVI starting with 5 days onshore. Knowing the area, we hit all the good spots and she opined that it was up amongst her best vacations ever (and she’s got some good experience.) She Seemed a little sad as we prepared to take posession of our home for the next 8 days, leaving the shore behind. Two days later, her mind was completely and utterly blown. The time onshore had not prepared her for the intensity of sensations she experienced; anchoring for the night in a perfect little cove on a nearly deserted island. Waking up and sailing a short distance to The Baths and playing amongst boulders that seemed like a giant child’s blocks carelessly heaped an the shore; snorkling through virtual clouds of fish while examining coral (that she soon found out was not the most brilliant in the BVI). Then eating lunch and sailing into North Sound and the Bitter End Yacht Club, an upscale resort where they MUST rake the beach at least twice daily — not a cigarette butt to be found — and having dinner in those sumptous surroundings… And then it got better. And better. (44 days, 13 hours until we return….) — Jere Lull Xan-a-Deux — ‘73 Tanzer 28 #4 — out of Tolchester, MD Xan’s Pics & Specs:      http://www.dca.net/~jerelull/X-Main.html British Virgin Islands:  http://www.dca.net/~jerelull/BVI.html

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Question:

April is one of the peak months to fly fish for the large rainbows in the lower Sac from above Redding down to below Red Bluff. There is a giant hatch of caddis in the river at this time. If the flow is somewhere between 3,000 and 7,000cfs it should be ideal. If you need a good guide we can recommend one, as a drift boat is the best way to get around and fish the river. Fish over 5 pounds are not uncommon. Again, I hope that most of us understand the value of catch and release fishing in these wild fisheries. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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April is one of the peak months to fly fish for the large rainbows in the lower Sac from above Redding down to below Red Bluff. There is a giant hatch of caddis in the river at this time. If the flow is somewhere between 3,000 and 7,000cfs it should be ideal. If you need a good guide we can recommend one, as a drift boat is the best way to get around and fish the river. Fish over 5 pounds are not uncommon. Again, I hope that most of us understand the value of catch and release fishing in these wild fisheries. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

          Hey Billy,    Been there done that.  Every one should experince the cadis hatch at least once in their life.                          Your Bud,                                     Harv

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April is one of the peak months to fly fish for the large rainbows in the lower Sac from above Redding down to below Red Bluff. There is a giant hatch of caddis in the river at this time. If the flow is somewhere between 3,000 and 7,000cfs it should be ideal. If you need a good guide we can recommend one, as a drift boat is the best way to get around and fish the river. Fish over 5 pounds are not uncommon. Again, I hope that most of us understand the value of catch and release fishing in these wild fisheries. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop

Thanks Bill, In the Redding area we can all agree to fish C&R only, because the fish are toxic with mercury from mine tailings runoff. Check your regulations for the warning.  These fish really give a good pull and use the current; a 15 inch fish can get into your backing. In Redding some of the locals might be eating them, or maybe there is some other explanation for the detritus one finds there. Mark Vinsel — http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.html

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In the Redding area we can all agree to fish C&R only, because the fish are toxic with mercury from mine tailings runoff. Check your regulations for the warning.  These fish really give a good pull and use the current; a 15 inch fish can get into your backing. In Redding some of the locals might be eating them, or maybe there is some other explanation for the detritus one finds there.

I don’t know what you mean by detritus (I hope not our fellow human beings!), but I will second you on the toxicity of the water and food chain there.  No river I’ve ever encountered will bleach your waders like the lower sac.  I favor Double Tapers for the type of fishing I do on that water, and the first time I flip the line around I’m always amazed at the difference in color.  Scary!  And yes, sadly, people there do consume the fish.   Phil

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Question:

Hello everyone!  I am looking for fishing listservers.  I know of the flyfishing listserver in kentucky, are there any others?  Thanks a bunch. Tight Lines, George — *George M. Chan                 * "New York City has no power,       * *                               *  ’cuz I stay away from dairy."     * *                               *                      -Phoebe       *

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Hello everyone!  I am looking for fishing listservers.  I know of the flyfishing listserver in kentucky, are there any others?  Thanks a bunch. Tight Lines, George

George, Noticed the following listservers on rec.hunting……. **If you are a flyfisher, have a look on the following: **or **The first list gives you a lot of traffic while the latter is a bit **less active. Hope this helps Alex * Spinner of the WWWeb Page at                                      * *            http://www.well.com/www/amv/amv.htm                    *

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Question:

writes: Can anyone give me some good advice on flyfishing in CentralNorth Jersey.  I’m new to the area and have fished on the south branch of the Raritan (Califon), but it’s incredibly crowded.  Would appreciate any pointers E-mail me back! Thanks Paul Amatangelo

Paul, Along with the Musconetcong River, you may want to try the Pequest, Paulinskill, and Big Flatbrook in New Jersey.  However, you may want to drive the extra distance and fish such rivers as the Bushkill and Lackawaxen in Pennsylvania, as well as the Beaverkill, Esopus, and the East & West branches of the Delaware River in New York. All these rivers are within two hours driving time from northern New Jersey.     Good Luck!

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I am 15 years old and live in Princeton NJ. I just started Fly Fishing a year ago and have tried many a spots in this area. Right in Princeton is the Stoney Brook which is stocked with trout and other fish and is known to produce bass and perch. The Assunpink River (not lake) has alot of perch and Shad and has produced a few trout and bass for me. The Pequest and Flatbrook rivers are also very good for trout. But for bass fly I would recomend a spot that I found two years ago when I was a spin fisher. It is in the Delaware Raritan canal. IT is right by the main entrance to the Bulls Island Campground on the Delaware River. Its on the New Jersey side in case your confused. Thats all I can THink of but if you would like advice on other spots feel free to write. Matt

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Saturday, May6 I went to the North branch of the Raritan at Rte 206 and 287. Very little crowd.  I didn’t catch any trout but another fellow had 3 on a stringer.

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Can anyone give me some good advice on flyfishing in CentralNorth Jersey.  I’m new to the area and have fished on the south branch of the Raritan (Califon), but it’s incredibly crowded.  Would appreciate any pointers E-mail me back! Thanks Paul Amatangelo

Response:

Try the Musky west of the route 24 bridge just pass the fly stretch. This area has produced some 8 lb fish. I know, from first hand experience I didnt catch it, put a witnessed the fight and landing of the monster. The person who caught it was a rookie, only his third time out. Some people have all the luck. Good Luck.

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Question:

Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Summary: Followup-To: Distribution: pwn Organization: Oregon Grad. Inst. Computer Science and Eng., Beaverton Keywords: Could someone please give me an idea of what Alec Jackson spey hooks cost by the 100 count, say for #3’s or #1.5’s.  A chap who taught a fly tying class I recently attended claimed that he could get them at a discount (about 20% less) and I need a reference price to confirm this is a reasonable claim.  Unfortunately, the catalogs only list prices for 25 count packages.  Also, I noticed that these hooks are sold in size #5’s – can someone tell me how this hook sizing relates to Tiemco (conventional) hook sizes – I have a hard time believing the sizing is the same since AJ #1.5’s are just about as large as a Partridge 3/0 hook.  Finally, if this discount proves reasonable then I’d be up for splitting a box two ways so let me know if you are interested; geesh, 100 hooks per size is more than i’d probably use in 5 years or more (knock on wood). Cheers, Roger — Roger S. Barga Oregon Graduate Institute of Science & Technology Portland, OR 97291-1000  USA

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Roger,     TMC 7999 #2 is just a tad larger than AJ #5.  If you want best price in quantity call Jackson direct…no, I don’t have #, look at ads in mags.  Might also try The Valley FlyFisher in Salem, Keith Burkhart is a friend of Alecs and usually has the best selectin available locally.                                 Mike in PDX                "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                                            Tom McGuane

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Question:

Quick suggestions needed!   I have an avid FF friend with a mid-January birthday. I know he currently doesn’t subscribe to any FF magazines, so I’d like to get him a subscription to one.  I’ve seen 3 or 4 different FF magizines in popular bookstores. Any one of these magazines recognized as the clear leader?  Which magazine would you suggest?                                                - Ken –

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I have an avid FF friend with a mid-January birthday. I know he currently doesn’t subscribe to any FF magazines, so I’d like to get him a subscription to one.  I’ve seen 3 or 4 different FF magizines in popular bookstores.

Flyfisherman has been aroung a long time. It has become extremely commercialized and retail oriented over the years (or I have gotten more cynical about the business end of this "hobby") but may be good reading for anyone new to the sport. Another Mag with a provocative conservation slant (and equally commercial) is Fly Rod and Reel.  This would be a good choice for the fishing activist. If your friend lives towards the West Coast, "Flyfishing" would be a wise choice. It too has some hard hitting consevation type articles and a orientation towards the West Coast Fisheries.  If your friend is a fly tyer the "American Angler"  (formerly The American Fly Tyer") might be a worth considering.  All in all, I wouldn’t consider one a clear cut winner over the other, just they are all different. Good Luck on your selection Mark Powers Boston

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: Any one of these magazines recognized as the clear leader?  Which : magazine would you suggest? I am acquainted with "Flyfisherman", "Flyfishing" and "The River Journal" I thoroughly enjoy Flyfisherman. It is an excellent magazine, very well done, with articles for the beginner (like myself) and the advanced fly fisherperson. It covers trout, salmon and salt water. Not much on other species as I remember. It has a very nice mix of articles on technique, fly tying and where to go. I subscribed to Flyfishing magazine but did not renew my subscription. Its coverage was quite similar to Flyfisherman, but I thought its editorial quality was rather poor. Some articles were riddled with misspellings, etc. In this day of electronic publishing there is no excuse for this. Both Flyfishing and The River Journal are done by Frank Amato publications. The River Journal, compared to Flyfishing, is very high quality. It is published four times per year. Each issue is written by a single author, and is devoted to a single river. It describes in some detail what the river is like, access, the fishing, the area around the river. It gives quite a good feel for what to expect when you actually go there. My recommendation would be for Flyfisherman.                                                         — al — |    UNISYS – Open System Products      Phone:  612-635-7240            | |    Roseville,MN                       FAX:    612-635-3899            |

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        I think the year end blitz of junk-mail is attributable to the postal rate increase, more than anything else.  Actually, junk-mail mailings occur throughout the year – and I’ll bet that a number of companies decided to move up their mailing schedule to save some money.         As for lists – it has long been established practice for magazines to sell lists of their subscribers’ names and addresses (I think the going rate nowadays is about 8 cents per name).  They also buy their competition’s lists (finding new subscribers is difficult!).  If you’re starting a new business, it is one way to inexpensively target a niche market).  I’m not sure anything can be done about it from the recipient’s end – stop subscribing?  Stop buying?  But I do like the idea of changing your name slightly each time.  Oh, and I NEVER give out demographic information (except to the IRS). Cheers, – Jeff

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   I think the year end blitz of junk-mail is attributable to the postal rate increase, more than anything else.  Actually, junk-mail mailings occur throughout the year – and I’ll bet that a number of companies decided to move up their mailing schedule to save some money.

Junk mail is a part of our culture.  Like it or not! I think I would rather live in a country effluent enough to support a healthy junk mail industry.   I don’t believe I said that?  :-) Effuent enough and doing it are two differant things.  MO is an important way of doing business.  Many things I own are not available in stores within a couple hundred miles. If available at all. George

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[omissions] I think I would rather live in a country effluent enough to support a healthy junk mail industry.   I don’t believe I said that?  :-) Effuent enough and doing it are two differant things.  MO is an important way of doing business.  Many things I own are not available in stores within a couple hundred miles. If available at all.

I wouldn’t like to suggest you folks are river-fixated or anything, but the term is "affluent." "Effluent" is "to flow out" or "something that flows out," as an outflowing branch of a main stream, or waste material, as smoke or sewage. "Affluent" also means "to flow abundantly," but has the additional meaning of "abundance of property." — Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Disclaimer: Over 30 and born in Fredericton, NB

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I’ve given my address out to that had anything to do with flyfishing except one place.  A few weeks ago someone was offering a free catalog or something here.  I sent my email address and so far haven’t seen anything but I’m wondering if that was just a scam to sell a mailing list.  Has anyone else here all of a sudden started getting flyfishing related mail?

To who ever wrote the above: That was not a scam!  Your request is sitting in this office about 8 feet from the computer in a pile waiting to see how many respond to publish a free news letter.   Your name will not be sold or given away to anyone.   I will tell you an old trick I have been doing for years.  Key to replies. Advertisers key their ads.  Why not key your replies. Several years ago I send in a warranty card, you know the type, the ones who ask a lot of questions about your demographics.   Well I told them I was makeing over $200000 a year.   Hell you would have thought I was having a paper drive in my front yard.  I bought a Coleman stove.  Everybody flooded me and still are.  Two churches wanted me to join.  Funny thing, they wrote be a letter with my middle name as C.   C. for Colman.  :-) Did you folks by something for Christmas fishing related and sent in a warranty card? Not a scam, George – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Paul DiConza NY Capital District Angler

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve given my address out to that had anything to do with flyfishing except one place.  A few weeks ago someone was offering a free catalog or something here.  I sent my email address and so far haven’t seen anything but I’m wondering if that was just a scam to sell a mailing list.  Has anyone else here all of a sudden started getting flyfishing related mail? To who ever wrote the above: That was not a scam!  Your request is sitting in this office about 8 feet from the computer in a pile waiting to see how many respond to publish a free news letter.   Your name will not be sold or given away to anyone.   I will tell you an old trick I have been doing for years.  Key to replies. Advertisers key their ads.  Why not key your replies. Several years ago I send in a warranty card, you know the type, the ones who ask a lot of questions about your demographics.   Well I told them I was makeing over $200000 a year.   Hell you would have thought I was having a paper drive in my front yard.  I bought a Coleman stove.  Everybody flooded me and still are.  Two churches wanted me to join.  Funny thing, they wrote be a letter with my middle name as C.   C. for Colman.  :-) Did you folks by something for Christmas fishing related and sent in a warranty card? Not a scam, George

Well very interesting.  I checked my list of everyone who sent in a request and non of you folks are on my list.   So god knows what happened to the names you sent to whomever.   Anyway if any of you want a free newsletter.  Send in you name and address for postal delivery.  That the only way we can send it out to you.   Some of the sponsors want to send free samples so can’t do it electronically.  It would be like Pizza Hut faxing you your pizza.  :-)  The technology is just not here yet.   For be it from me to turn down a box of hooks or what every. Later, George,

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…. If your friend lives towards the West Coast, "Flyfishing" would be a wise choice.

Another interesting publication is "California Fly Fisher."  Although the editorial slant is California fishing and fisheries, it also has a number of general interest articles, and the writing so far has consistantly been of high quality.  If interested, you might give them a call at 415-284-0313.  I don’t know if they send out sample copies, but its worth a try. Cheers, – Jeff

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Make no mistake, folks: Mailing lists are hot items out there. In the course of starting up 8-Wt Journal, obviously we had to compile a mailing list (especially after offering free sample issues through the net here). I’ve got about ten years in the publishing business behind me, but even I was surprised at how, when I contacted other flyfishing publications regarding reviews, space ads and so forth, at how most wanted copies of our list. Having been subjected to mail list abuse myself in the past, we declined all offers (and intend to continue this practice). But for many operators of all stripes–from tackle and fly shops who just have a local mailing list to big-name equipment makers, selling mail/customer lists is considered just one more revenue enhancer. JL 8-Wt Editor

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Coincidently, I just got the sales pitch letter for a subscription to Fly Rod & Reel this morning in the mail.  I had never seen the magazine before.  Coincidently, I got a "free-trial subscription" letter from Flyfisherman and "American Angler" a couple of days before.  I also got a catalog for JW Outfitters. It’s been a few months since I put my name on a mailing list at the local fly shop and I can’t think of any place else that I’ve given my address out to that had anything to do with flyfishing except one place.  A few weeks ago someone was offering a free catalog or something here.  I sent my email address and so far haven’t seen anything but I’m wondering if that was just a scam to sell a mailing list.  Has anyone else here all of a sudden started getting flyfishing related mail?

Yeah, all at the same time from American Angler, Flyfisherman, and Fly Rod & Reel.  I’m on a number of lists, though, since I have recently bought stuff from Orvis, The Bass Pond, and Cabela’s.   Just a consumer tip:  I subscribed to American Angler this past year for about 15 bucks.  I found it to be excellent especially for tying tips. Then they wanted me to renew for 20 bucks, but I thought I could do better so I ignored their repeated pleas and let the subscription run out.  Sure enough, on ESPN Outdoors Saturday morning I saw a toll-free number to subscribe to AA for 15 bucks…BUT before I got around to calling, I got all these freebie notices, including one from AA!  So I’ll get a free issue, plus a low rate for the other 5 issues.  With the money I saved, I’m going to buy all of the Paradise Valley spring creeks…  ;) Paul DiConza NY Capital District Angler

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My recommendation would be for Flyfisherman. I second the recommendation, and for a publication with an in-your-face conservation slant, try Fly Rod & Reel.

Coincidently, I just got the sales pitch letter for a subscription to Fly Rod & Reel this morning in the mail.  I had never seen the magazine before.  Coincidently, I got a "free-trial subscription" letter from Flyfisherman and "American Angler" a couple of days before.  I also got a catalog for JW Outfitters.  Before I digress, because I plan to, "American Angler" is also a very good magazine for flyfishing.  For those that tie their own flies I would recommend it highly over Flyfisherman.  This topic has come up many times before and I’ve always highly recommended "California FlyFisher".  Everytime I do I get email asking for the subscription address, so here it is: California FlyFisher PO Box 40429 San Francisco, CA 94140 (415) 284-0313 Back to my digression.  It’s been a few months since I put my name on a mailing list at the local fly shop and I can’t think of any place else that I’ve given my address out to that had anything to do with flyfishing except one place.  A few weeks ago someone was offering a free catalog or something here.  I sent my email address and so far haven’t seen anything but I’m wondering if that was just a scam to sell a mailing list.  Has anyone else here all of a sudden started getting flyfishing related mail? — John Fereira "Guru of Miscellany" Pleasanton, CA "Ask me about my vow of silence."

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…deleted material…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Coincidently, I just got the sales pitch letter for a subscription to Fly Rod & Reel this morning in the mail.  I had never seen the magazine before.  Coincidently, I got a "free-trial subscription" letter from Flyfisherman and "American Angler" a couple of days before.  I also got a catalog for JW Outfitters. …deleted material…. ….  It’s been a few months since I put my name on a mailing list at the local fly shop and I can’t think of any place else that I’ve given my address out to that had anything to do with flyfishing except one place.  A few weeks ago someone was offering a free catalog or something here.  I sent my email address and so far haven’t seen anything but I’m wondering if that was just a scam to sell a mailing list.  Has anyone else here all of a sudden started getting flyfishing related mail? — John Fereira "Guru of Miscellany" Pleasanton, CA "Ask me about my vow of silence."

I also recently received all "Free trial subscription" offers from the above three fly fishing publications. (less the California one).  And I also sent my address in on the catalog/free issue offer on the list… hmmmm…… Provo, Utah

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: Any one of these magazines recognized as the clear leader?  Which : magazine would you suggest? I subscribed to Flyfishing magazine but did not renew my subscription. Its coverage was quite similar to Flyfisherman, but I thought its editorial quality was rather poor. Some articles were riddled with misspellings, etc. In this day of electronic publishing there is no excuse for this.

I bought the latest issue of Flyfishing because, frankly, it had a fish on the cover. I was extremely disappointed with the content. I found it to be flagrantly self-promoting (of Frank Amato publications), spelling and grammar errors galore, and the ad for "The Miracle of the Eucharist" or whatever in the midst of ad copy for fishing literature annoyingly incongruent. My recommendation would be for Flyfisherman.

I second the recommendation, and for a publication with an in-your-face conservation slant, try Fly Rod & Reel.                                                         — al — |    UNISYS – Open System Products Phone:  612-635-7240            | |    Roseville,MN                  FAX:    612-635-3899            |

– Dave Ridge Storage Technology Corp

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Question:

Is it just me or is sea kayaking under going a rapid de-evolution ?    I can think of no other sport that is racing back to the future like it.   Skin boats,  thin wood paddles Greenland training techniques this stuff has been in use for 10,000 years .   Can any modern R.D dept. hope to come up with any thing that can withstand that test of time?

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Is it just me or is sea kayaking under going a rapid de-evolution ?    I can think of no other sport that is racing back to the future like it.   Skin boats,  thin wood paddles Greenland training techniques this stuff has been in use for 10,000 years .   Can any modern R.D dept. hope to come up with any thing that can withstand that test of time?

 I would’nt go so far as calling it a "de-evolution", the same thing happens with just about every sport out there – equipment becomes more and more sophisticated and technologicaly advanced. The original creation that started the whole process becomes lost to history. Just because I want to build a Baidarka doesnt mean I want to hold the rest of the world back – I just want something different – something that you just dont see very often, but is also recogizable as a part of past history – which is what makes it so fun. This is the reason I fly fish instead of using the latest in bait casting reels(but I use both), I also shoot a recurve bow(but I also own a compound), and I shoot black powder ( but I also have the most modern of arms). I’d be willing to bet that the modern R&D shops can and do design kayaks and canoes that are light years more efficient and durable than past boats, but evolution is the way of the world, and what better way to evolve than to look back to the past to plan for the future?

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Question:

Joseph M. Mc Clain can you e-mail me your address and l’ll send you a list of the patterns I take to the Yellowstone region in early July.  Sorry I lost your original post, work just keeps getting in the way.

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I am taking the family to Yellowstone Park June 21-July 2. Of course, I would like to try fishing as long as we’re there. Any info as to likely hatches, regulations, fly patterns, not-so- ridiculously crowded streams, etc. would be appreciated. Please e-mail to me at the above address (or post, if you think it might be entertaining) All advice, warnings, etc. gratefully appreciated. — joe in joeland

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Joseph M. Mc Clain writes: I am taking the family to Yellowstone Park June 21-July 2. Of course, I would like to try fishing as long as we’re there. Any info as to likely hatches, regulations, fly patterns, not-so- ridiculously crowded streams, etc. would be appreciated. Please e-mail to me at the above address (or post, if you think it might be entertaining)

I’ll be in the same area about the same time.  I’m taking the family to the Bighorn for four nights three days of drift fishing (6/29, 6/30 & 7/1) then I’ll move to Island Park below West Yellowstone for ten days.  We’ll tour the park and fish the madison, Henry’s Fork (box and ranch), the Ruby River and some of the streams and lakes in and around the Park.  There is a book available in the Park book stores on fishing the Park.  It’s not bad. The Yellowstone river is full of easy to catch cuts but don’t fish it it won’t be open for a couple of weeks (Mid July).  Float tubing yellowstone lake in the mornings always works.  I like patterns with peacock for cuts.  You may see some callibaetis (speckle winged) mayflys comming off the lake.   I can’t give you specific patterns for the area there are just too many rivers with different micro climates and bug hatches.  Some bugs you’re likely to see: – Salmonflys – Mayflies         – PMD’s (Pale Morning Duns)         – Baetis (Little blue wing olives).         – Callibaetis (speckle winged )         – Flav’s (little western green drakes) Probable gone by the time you            get there. – Caddis – evening caddis sizes #16 &18 # 3 fly rite dubbing.         on the Madison I like the size 18 sparkle caddis emerger I’ve talked to Renee Harrop and Mike Lawson and the and the jury’s out on how the Ranch section of the Henry’s fork will fish.  It went almost dry last year and is almost at flood stage now.  They are trying to flush years of silt out (drought buildup).  The ranch is my favorite location but I may avoid it this year due to years of managing it as an irrigation canal. The bottem line is you can’t miss, you’ll have fun in a beautiful setting.  See you there.

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