Question:

We would like to go back to Cozumel for scuba next summer but this time go in our own plane.  With all the red tape that is expected, I guess I should start now.  I understand that an experimental has to get Mexican gov’t approval, but am not sure how to go about that. Also, to go from north Alabama to Cozumel, as much as I dislike overwater flying, is it more risky to take the long way around, via the entire country of Mexico’s land mass?  What do you guys recommend? Thanks, AI Nut

Response:

I have flown down to Honduras twice from Texas.  Flying down the gulf coast of Mexico is easy with excellent airports and very pleasant airport personnel.  Enter at Brownsville and land as needed at Tampico, Veracruz, Villahermosa, Carmen. Cross the base of the Isthmus from Carmen to Chetumal and fly north to Cozumel.  Get the latest info packet from AOPA. The reason to cross the isthmus from Carmen to Chetumal is to follow the road rather than cross uninhabited, trackless jungle. — Richard TEXAS is not just a place, TEXAS  is a state of mind.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We would like to go back to Cozumel for scuba next summer but this time go in our own plane.  With all the red tape that is expected, I guess I should start now.  I understand that an experimental has to get Mexican gov’t approval, but am not sure how to go about that. Also, to go from north Alabama to Cozumel, as much as I dislike overwater flying, is it more risky to take the long way around, via the entire country of Mexico’s land mass?  What do you guys recommend? Thanks, AI Nut

Response:

Take a look at bajabushpilots.com  Geared more to California pilots flying down to Baja, but the answer re experimentals will be known. Re crossing over the Gulf from Alabama, you can manage the risk by having a raft and a 406 epirb and a person back home who will report you missing if you do not call them a certain time after departure.  Do you fly at night, over mountains, or in low IFR in a single?  These are similar, maybe even greater, risks.  Your chances are really bad in these situations if the engine quits.  At least with a ditching you are OK if someone will come get you and you can stay alive until then.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We would like to go back to Cozumel for scuba next summer but this time go in our own plane.  With all the red tape that is expected, I guess I should start now.  I understand that an experimental has to get Mexican gov’t approval, but am not sure how to go about that. Also, to go from north Alabama to Cozumel, as much as I dislike overwater flying, is it more risky to take the long way around, via the entire country of Mexico’s land mass?  What do you guys recommend? Thanks, AI Nut

Response:

Cash only, preferrably Mexican Pesos.  Strainer cloth and a Mexican mecahnic is required for any repairs.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We would like to go back to Cozumel for scuba next summer but this time go in our own plane.  With all the red tape that is expected, I guess I should start now.  I understand that an experimental has to get Mexican gov’t approval, but am not sure how to go about that. Also, to go from north Alabama to Cozumel, as much as I dislike overwater flying, is it more risky to take the long way around, via the entire country of Mexico’s land mass?  What do you guys recommend? Thanks, AI Nut

Response:

You can’t do repairs on your own aircraft????  Thats scary!  Might want to take some vasoline too!  Whats a strainer cloth? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cash only, preferrably Mexican Pesos.  Strainer cloth and a Mexican mecahnic is required for any repairs. We would like to go back to Cozumel for scuba next summer but this time go in our own plane.  With all the red tape that is expected, I guess I should start now.  I understand that an experimental has to get Mexican gov’t approval, but am not sure how to go about that. Also, to go from north Alabama to Cozumel, as much as I dislike overwater flying, is it more risky to take the long way around, via the entire country of Mexico’s land mass?  What do you guys recommend? Thanks, AI Nut

Response:

You can do the repairs, but a mexican mechanic has to supervise the repair. Some people use a chamios to strain the fuel.  Probably not necessary at major airports, but if you are burning car gas or at a remote airport it is a cheap precaution.

You can’t do repairs on your own aircraft????  Thats scary!  Might want to take some vasoline too!  Whats a strainer cloth?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cash only, preferrably Mexican Pesos.  Strainer cloth and a Mexican mecahnic is required for any repairs. We would like to go back to Cozumel for scuba next summer but this time go in our own plane.  With all the red tape that is expected, I guess I should start now.  I understand that an experimental has to get Mexican gov’t approval, but am not sure how to go about that. Also, to go from north Alabama to Cozumel, as much as I dislike overwater flying, is it more risky to take the long way around, via the entire country of Mexico’s land mass?  What do you guys recommend? Thanks, AI Nut

Response:

Take a look at bajabushpilots.com  Geared more to California pilots flying down to Baja, but the answer re experimentals will be known. Re crossing over the Gulf from Alabama, you can manage the risk by having a raft and a 406 epirb and a person back home who will report you missing if you do not call them a certain time after departure.  Do you fly at night, over mountains, or in low IFR in a single?  These are similar, maybe even greater, risks.  Your chances are really bad in these situations if the engine quits.  At least with a ditching you are OK if someone will come get you and you can stay alive until then.

Yeah, and not usually much problem with hypothermia in the Gulf Cheers, John PPASEL Temple, Texas

Response:

Before I started flying 10 years ago (and have made two trips through Mexico by plane) I lived aboard yachts for 23 years.  This included a great many crossings of the Gulf of Mexico in sail yachts, power yachts and commercial fishing vessels and oilfield service vessels..  Having been over 100,000 miles on the ocean in boats, I personally think that long passages over water in single engine planes are totally nuts.  It is often very rough down there and in those conditions, a ditching would not likely go very well.  It is also fairly unlikely that you will be found before it is too late.  What looks like calm water and short distances from a plane looks very very different from the surface.  I personally think that the risk is totally unacceptable in a single and would not do it in a twin, if the plane could not complete the trip from the 1/2 way point on one engine. On the other hand the trip around the edge with stops in nice Mexican cities and airports is a lot of fun.  The fuel is very very clean and the service is polite and excellent. No sweat. — Richard TEXAS is not just a place, TEXAS  is a state of mind.

Take a look at bajabushpilots.com  Geared more to

California pilots flying down to Baja, but the answer re experimentals will be known. Re crossing over the Gulf from Alabama, you can manage the risk by having a raft and a 406 epirb and a person back home who will

report you missing if – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – you do not call them a certain time after departure.  Do you fly at night, over mountains, or in low IFR in a single?  These are similar, maybe even greater, risks.  Your chances are really bad in these situations if the engine quits.  At least with a ditching you are OK if someone will come get you and you can stay alive until then. Yeah, and not usually much problem with hypothermia in the Gulf Cheers, John PPASEL Temple, Texas

Response:

100,000 miles on the ocean in boats, I personally think that long passages over water in single engine planes are totally nuts.  It is often very rough down there and in those conditions, a ditching would not likely go very well.  It is also fairly unlikely that you will be found before it is too late

You may know sailing, but you don’t know ditching. Ditching is not risk-free but can be accomplished without harm more often than not. Down home, many of us have ditched. Only one lost his life. He was drowned by a panicked passenger. D.

Response:

How high were the seas when you ditched.  How far from shore?  How long till rescue.  From Alabama to Yucatan is 600 or 700 NM. I have a friend who has ditched twice, right next to shore. The middle of the Gulf is a whole nother animal.  Of course, If you trust your machine that much, have at it. I have noticed something interesting.  I know quite a few instructors and pilots who love night flying and some who do some pretty serious IFR in singles.  Funny, that all of the mechanics that I know well who are also very experienced pilots, avoid night flight and heavy IFR in singles.  I am a pretty competent mechanic, but not an A&P and there is no way that I am flying under those conditions.  Of course two partial power losses in 1200 hours might have something to do with that. The sea is big and your life raft is ridiculously small.  If you ditch successfully, and if you get out and get in the raft, and if you still have the epirb (406 or not) and if you are detected, you might be found and they might even be able to rescue you.  That is a hell of a lot of ifs, for an unnecessary risk. — Richard TEXAS is not just a place, TEXAS  is a state of mind. message .net… 100,000 miles on the ocean in boats, I personally think that long passages over water in single engine planes are totally nuts.  It is often very rough down there and in those conditions, a ditching would not likely go very well. It is also fairly unlikely that you will be found before it is too late You may know sailing, but you don’t know ditching.

Ditching is not risk-free – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – but can be accomplished without harm more often than not. Down home, many of us have ditched. Only one lost his life. He was drowned by a panicked passenger. D.

Response:

Question:

The weather has finally warmed, water temps are up, ospreys are feeding chicks, bass are close in, panfish are feeding, the lake and river are full of gators vying for mates. On the beaches the salts are moving in close, sharks are biting, herons are stalking the water again with purpose. Starlings and robins have moved through. All is green (though dry) with the smell of magnolias, honeysuckle , confederate jasmine and citrus blossoms. In the cool damp mornings I wonder how anyone could live without the soothing of the senses in the south. Now if we could just get some rain paradise would be revived. — John Popp in Sanford Fl.

Response:

John, as much as I disliked my short residence in Orlando, you write of all the things I DID love about being there.  Nothing like my little weekend jaunts into the swamps around Hunters Creek for bluegill, bass, gator dodging, wildlife watching, solitude, silence….or the occasional drive to Canaveral Seashore for a little surf fishing with a fly. Ohhhhh, sweet memories…. Bruce Thomsen

Response:

Question:

Well I headed up to one of my favorite hex ponds yesterday to do some dry fly hexing. We arrived at the pond with high winds. So I headed down the pond in my old indian brand fiberglass canoe, semi basket case but light and good to fish from. It’s been heavily repaired with fiberglass to make it seaworty but it is so much stealtier than my aluminum.  There were a few hex’s starting to pop up here and there and a few fish rising to them so I prayed for a respite from the howling Maine winds. It was not to be. First thing, on my third cast I broke my "new" HI Lucky ace off at the top ferrule on the mid section, somebody (me) apparently did a piss poor replacement job. Not to be discouraged I paddled all the way back to the landing to get a replacement. Whereon I discovered that the owner of one of the two camps on the pond bragging about how he had coerced the State into stocking Splake ( a bastard hybred of a brookie and a lake trout) to "control" the smelt population. Great, this dub is trying to kill off the feed that makes this pond grow mega slab sided brookies, seemed like a duh to me. Now we’ve got camp owners playing at fisheries management…of course he’s happy to troll up a few splake and claims there are no big schools of smelt anymore on his fish finder…I’m happy for him….rather than argue the topic I just paddled back down the pond to fish. Anyway I managed a couple of 12-14" brookies on my hex pattern when I heard this awful cracking and moaning coming from the seat of my canoe. the %$^#* seat was splitting in half – time for a diet I decided anyway the darn thing sank an inch or two but didn’t part the way completely. Finally as dark came on the wind picked up even more so I beached the canoe for the night. Then it began to rain, and rain, and rain you get the idea. this morning the wind was still howling so we drove down to the West Branch of the Penoboscot river to fish for salmon. the rubber hatch was on (rafters) and the water was high and colored, at least some of it from the heavy overnight rains. I had one hit nymphing and managed to yank the fly out of the fishes mouth and into the tree behind me where I ended up leaving it. Hit another good pool downstream in time to watch another angler manage a decent landlock, caught a freaking chub and went back to camp for lunch. My pond was now covered in 2-3 foot white caps so I bagged it and came home instead of praying to the ghods of calm sunsets. Driving out we got pounded by a mega thunderstorm so the decision to leave was probably ok. On the way out I saw a large black bear, and the usual assortment of moose, a bald eagle, a couple of red tailed hawks, a ton of rabbits and some partridge, good wildlife viewing trip anyway. Tierd and weary, 6 hours later, I arrived home to find my latest ebay treasure, a shakespear 1305B in 9 foot in a gigantic plano plastic case (destined to go into the yard sale pile). It’s missing an eye and while dubbing with it the reel seat came apart because the pin is missing…sometimes I should stay home, go to the dump and mow the lawn…naw that’s no fun… so anyway kids the hex’s are on up in Baxter country but the weather was not conducive to the frenzied evening rise to same…at least for me this weekend. Flyfish — dave’s homepage madness http://www.ctel.net/~brooktrout flyfishing in Maine and more

Response:

Thanks for the nice report anyway. These reports make one wish one was fishing, remind one of the mishaps which inevitably occur, sometimes leaving fond memories, and sometimes swollen feet or similar, but they are all extremely interesting. TL MC — "In order to know what is possible one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well I headed up to one of my favorite hex ponds yesterday to do some dry

Response:

Question:

If you check your history the British got thier first Enigma cipher machine from the Polish army. The Polish language is enough of an enigma to me.   My in-laws may as well be speaking in secret code. Joe F. (Foregoing the obvious humor opportunities)

It’s all Navajo to me. Wolfgang who is STILL studying for the Turing test!

Response:

It’s all Navajo to me.

Ah yes *our* "Enigma machine" against the Japanese. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

rw wrote It’s a darn good thing for you Brits that an American submarine crew captured the Enigma cipher machine from a German U-boat. I saw it in a movie.

Obviously, you didn’t pay attention.  At the end of the movie they displayed the actual events that were the basis of the story. There were three such missions and the first two were run by the British. The American mission did not occur until after D-day, as I recall. —                                                       -dnc-

Response:

Wolfgang wrote Wolfgang who is STILL studying for the Turing test!

You mean to tell me that all of this patter comes from a machine. (The bad jokes are a brilliant strategy…congratulations.  Who programmed you?)

Response:

Wolfgang wrote Wolfgang who is STILL studying for the Turing test! You mean to tell me that all of this patter comes from a machine. (The bad jokes are a brilliant strategy…congratulations.  Who programmed you?)

I could answer that question, but what reason would you have to believe me? Wolfgang riding the razor’s edge between a paradox and a conundrum

Response:

Wolfgang wrote Wolfgang wrote Wolfgang who is STILL studying for the Turing test! You mean to tell me that all of this patter comes from a machine. (The bad jokes are a brilliant strategy…congratulations.  Who programmed you?) I could answer that question, but what reason would you have to believe

me? Faith in my fellow machine? —                                                       -dnc-

Response:

Wolfgang wrote Wolfgang who is STILL studying for the Turing test! You mean to tell me that all of this patter comes from a machine. (The bad jokes are a brilliant strategy…congratulations.  Who programmed you?) I could answer that question, but what reason would you have to believe me?

Is your name really Eliza? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

rw wrote It’s a darn good thing for you Brits that an American submarine crew captured the Enigma cipher machine from a German U-boat. I saw it in a movie. Obviously, you didn’t pay attention.  At the end of the movie they displayed the actual events that were the basis of the story. There were three such missions and the first two were run by the British. The American mission did not occur until after D-day, as I recall. —                                                       -dnc-

Really? Gosh, I must have been trying to beat the crowd to the parking lot. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Is your name really Eliza?

Eliza Lott?

Response:

… who is STILL studying for the Turing test!

would that be the non-sequiTUR test?? jeff (offering guided flyfishing sequi tours and non-sequi tours in the nc mountains)

Response:

Is your name really Eliza? Eliza Lott?

More like Eliza Little. Eliza was the first computer program that passed an "operational" turing test, IMHO. It was created in the 60’s by a famous computer scientist whose name I forget. It mimiced a psychiatrist who turned everything you said back into a question. Eliza’s creator was so appalled when people started talking (i.e. typing) to this rudimentary, stupid program that he spent the rest of his career attacking Artificial Intelligence, which always stuck me as odd. I see Eliza as a spoof of psychiatry. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

 Most of the vets would be in their 80’s is probably the answer. —  Don Thompson  Zoomie(BushBug)  ACA#3460  TLCB#335  Any Time, Any Place  Pull the chocks, lets get this kite in the air.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hats off to them, and a question: why the last time?

Response:

Most of the vets would be in their 80’s is probably the answer.

I thought about that, but why at 60 years, and plus, that doesn’t seem, well, "British."  I though maybe it freaked out the French, those English boats full of rowdy Br.E.F.  retirees and all…<G. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text — Don Thompson Zoomie(BushBug) ACA#3460 TLCB#335 Any Time, Any Place

Response:

Yeah, I heard that the Brits had their underwear in a bunch because the movie U-571 rewrote history, substituting an American crew for the British crew that actually captured the Enigma machine.

Yeah the story was fictional, but at the end they gave credit to the supposedly actual crews that recovered Enigmas, or Enigma code information.  I just caught a glimpse of this as I was leaving – anyone know if any of *those* were British? * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

If you check your history the British got thier first Enigma cipher machine from the Polish army. Maybe that’s why the "I saw it in a movie" statement with the little smiley?<g

Yeah, I heard that the Brits had their underwear in a bunch because the movie U-571 rewrote history, substituting an American crew for the British crew that actually captured the Enigma machine. I guess that is pretty outrageous from their point of view, kind of like if an English movie showed the British Army planting the Union Jack on Iwo Jima. It’s a good film, though. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Today, a fleet of ‘Little Ships’, sets sail from Dover across the English Channel. This weekend, for the last time, veterans will gather in Dunkirk to commemorate the evacuation of the British Expeditionary Force from the beaches, sixty years ago.

Hats off to them, and a question: why the last time? TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The rescue of the British troops was accomplished, but at great loss, by a motley fleet of craft which included small civilian vessels. Many were no bigger than pleasure launches and crewed by old men and boys. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

Yeah, I heard that the Brits had their underwear in a bunch because the movie U-571 rewrote history, substituting an American crew for the British crew that actually captured the Enigma machine. I guess that is pretty outrageous from their point of view, kind of like if an English movie showed the British Army planting the Union Jack on Iwo Jima.

Yep.   On top of that, there’s apparently another revisionist war history movie in the works with Americans masterminding an escape from a notorious high-security POW prison (the name escapes me at the moment).   Trouble is, there weren’t even any Americans there at the time. Joe F.

Response:

Today, a fleet of ‘Little Ships’, sets sail from Dover across the English Channel. This weekend, for the last time, veterans will gather in Dunkirk to commemorate the evacuation of the British Expeditionary Force from the beaches, sixty years ago.

My dad and I were planning a trip to Europe next year to view WWII sites and sights, it’s too bad we’ll miss that – it’s something I’d like to see. Regards, Jeff

Response:

It’s a darn good thing for you Brits that an American submarine crew captured the Enigma cipher machine from a German U-boat. I saw it in a movie. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

If you check your history the British got thier first Enigma cipher machine from the Polish army.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s a darn good thing for you Brits that an American submarine crew captured the Enigma cipher machine from a German U-boat. I saw it in a movie. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

If you check your history the British got thier first Enigma cipher machine from the Polish army.

The Polish language is enough of an enigma to me.   My in-laws may as well be speaking in secret code. Joe F. (Foregoing the obvious humor opportunities)

Response:

If you check your history the British got thier first Enigma cipher machine from the Polish army.

Maybe that’s why the "I saw it in a movie" statement with the little smiley?<g — Charlie…

Response:

Today, a fleet of ‘Little Ships’, sets sail from Dover across the English Channel. This weekend, for the last time, veterans will gather in Dunkirk to commemorate the evacuation of the British Expeditionary Force from the beaches, sixty years ago. The rescue of the British troops was accomplished, but at great loss, by a motley fleet of craft which included small civilian vessels. Many were no bigger than pleasure launches and crewed by old men and boys. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

Today, a fleet of ‘Little Ships’, sets sail from Dover across the English Channel. This weekend, for the last time, veterans will gather in Dunkirk to commemorate the evacuation of the British Expeditionary Force from the beaches, sixty years ago.

        the dogged courage of the peoples of the united kingdom as displayed during the second world war has always been one of the most inspirational collective acts in world history.         here’s to all of you, over there. wayno

Response:

Question:

So George, you’ve found yet a new way to assert your commercial presence here…by creating new subject lines…make that HEADLINES several times a day? Don’t you have your own chatroom to manipulate? Bastards All & Lovin Them! Gehrke Fly Rods Best Buy in Nation Chat Site Alive and Well! Since February I have tried to see you as an unfairly treated person here. I find no reason to continue trying. Enough is enough. — Jeff Cook http://www.cookstudios.com Washington DC area

Response:

I think I was an early supporter, having ordered a Bastard, 7.5′, #4 back in December. However, I internalized the wisdom of placing that order especially when the ‘reviews’ began to appear here and decided to cancel the order for my ‘Bastard’ on September 30. Without any other comment I just want to say, boy do I feel relieved.

Response:

I think I was an early supporter, having ordered a Bastard, 7.5′, #4 back in December. However, I internalized the wisdom of placing that order especially when the ‘reviews’ began to appear here and decided to cancel the order for my ‘Bastard’ on September 30. Without any other comment I just want to say, boy do I feel relieved.

this.  That you feel relieved is another question regarding you being able to think for yourself is in question with me.  You could have inspected the qualities of a fine fly rod first hand.  That you seem to have ‘a need’ to post such a remark in public, I regard as disappointing as it does not hurt me as much as it does you. A fair man wouldn’t have done this. Why did you do this?  We never did anything to you but work our hearts out for you. christ. Mr. G.

Response:

Just think Allen, you could have seen first hand what a pile of crap his rods are and sent it back.  After all he does guarantee your money back plus a nasty response to any one who doesn’t like them.  Of course you are out $12 return postage, but getting on George’s sh*t list should be worth something.  :-) Ernie Harrison Keep Livestock Away From Our Rivers and Streams. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think I was an early supporter, having ordered a Bastard, 7.5′, #4 back in December. However, I internalized the wisdom of placing that order especially when the ‘reviews’ began to appear here and decided to cancel the order for my ‘Bastard’ on September 30. Without any other comment I just want to say, boy do I feel relieved.

Response:

Just think Allen, you could have seen first hand what a pile of crap his rods are and sent it back.  After all he does guarantee your money back plus a nasty response to any one who doesn’t like them.  Of course you are out $12 return postage, but getting on George’s sh*t list should be worth something.  :-) Ernie Harrison

______  Harrison, you’re very bit of what Doug Knight says you are. None of it good.  This style of post of yours again proves what kind of person you really are and always have been in ROFF. Mr. G.

Response:

Steve, you’re right. I could have waited to check out a Bastard and return it (at my expense) if it didn’t pass inspection. However, I am not a bamboo affecionado(sp?), am not qualified to do a quality inspection, and based my decision on the many defects identified in the reviews ‘Bastards’ have received thus far. As far as posting my cancellation: It appears that ANY constructive discussion/criticism/suggestions about ANYTHING associated with this rod brings forth a venemous assault, i.e. "I Tried a Bastard" by Bob Smith. BTW, have you ever walked into a store intending to buy something and were so offended by what you saw of the interaction between sales and customer that you said to yourself, "forget this", and just turned around and walked out.

Response:

Steve, you’re right. I could have waited to check out a Bastard and return it (at my expense) if it didn’t pass inspection. However, I am not a bamboo affecionado(sp?), am not qualified to do a quality inspection, and based my decision on the many defects identified in the reviews ‘Bastards’ have received thus far. As far as posting my cancellation: It appears that ANY constructive discussion/criticism/suggestions about ANYTHING associated with this rod brings forth a venemous assault, i.e. "I Tried a Bastard" by Bob Smith. BTW, have you ever walked into a store intending to buy something and were so offended by what you saw of the interaction between sales and customer that you said to yourself, "forget this", and just turned around and walked out.

wouldn’t let anyone else do my thinking for me. Mr. G.

Response:

George did everything he could to sell his Bastards (ie. SPAM), take orders and impress us with his genius on this newsgroup.  What goes around come around.  Thus, I think it fair to cancel an order via this newsgroup, even if not tactful. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve never posted about the Bastard, but i dont think its fair to say in public that you plan on canceling an order on a rod that you havent seen.  If you have worries about the bastard, its perfectly fine to cancel an order, but to say it in a public forum is just unfairly hurting another person’s business.  Maybe Mr.G’s rods arent perfect but from what i hear, he does have a money back guarantee so you’re not running much risk by at least having it shipped to you to be inspected.

Response:

Just to clarify; I cancelled my purchase of the rod privately, via e-mail, to George on Sept. 30th. My post on ROFF a week later was no different then anyone posting about a broken rod tip, some warranty, some service fee, etc. from any rod, reel, etc. company. BTW, it’s been a long time now but didn’t G post some of the names and number of orders he had? Finally, yes I guess my post may not have been very tactful. I’ll hereby give myself 10 lashes with a wet noodle.

As much as it hurts to say it, I have to agree with George on this one. I have no problem if someone wants to cancel their order but your public statements only point out your preference for bolting with the herd rather than thinking for yourself or just checking it out first hand. Let’s face it. When George started this whole thing it was painfully clear that it was a risk to order a rod from someone that was taking on a fairly demanding technical task for the first time, regardless of what he said. If you didn’t think it was a risk (and the posts at that time made it pretty clear it was) then you were painfully naive. That risk has not changed since the beginning yet you have gotten nervous and bolted at the end. This is still OK by me but what is the purpose of publicly venting your "relief" at this juncture since you have absolutely nothing concrete to add to the debate except to proclaim this herd behavior? I would be embarrassed to publicly advertise that behavior if I were in your position. There have certainly been problems and George has been George. I have read nothing here that is any different than what George has posted since he first appeared on ROFF, so what else is new?! You guys act as if this is all a big surprise. Get real. If you were misled about what it might be like to deal with George on this, I would suggest it was in part done by yourselves and a lust for a new bamboo rod at what was initially hoped to be bargain basement prices. Maybe its time for a reality check and to get over it. As a disclaimer, this post is certainly not a defense of George. Some of the things that have gone on seem reprehensible to me and George is far from pure. Too much said. Jon "sucked into this thread" McAnulty

Response:

Always nice too see the leader of a customer service organization using terms like ‘insect brain’ in a public forum. Especially when its in reference to a potential customer. George, I dont care if your rods are beamed here from God himself … SNIPPED

Exactly my thoughts!  At this point I don’t care how great they might be- I’m willing to skip ever finding out, just so I don’t have to deal with this guy and run the risk of being publicly demeaned. What a freakin’ nutcase. Before you buy.

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…I wouldn’t let anyone else do my thinking for me.

And THIS is a serious problem because you don’t do any of it for yourself either.

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Nice to see the Mrs. has the same accumen. Tom

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I’ve never posted about the Bastard, but i dont think its fair to say in public that you plan on canceling an order on a rod that you havent seen.  If you have worries about the bastard, its perfectly fine to cancel an order, but to say it in a public forum is just unfairly hurting another person’s business.  Maybe Mr.G’s rods arent perfect but from what i hear, he does have a money back guarantee so you’re not running much risk by at least having it shipped to you to be inspected.

It seems to me that the very essence of a public forum such as this newsgroup is to provide an opportunity for anyone to express an opinion; any opinion.  That someone chooses to express an opinion which has a bearing on the central issues covered in this particular newsgroup should not be lamented.  Consider also that the negative reports on Mr. Gerhke’s products undoubtedly do him a lot less damage than does his own behavior in this forum.  Moreover, his incessant peddling of his products here opens the door for responses pertaining to those products even when, as is the case here, those responses are overwhelmingly negative.  ROFF is a community in a truer sense of the word than are most of the cities, towns, and villages in which most of us live.  One of the things which makes this a true community is that the residents, by common if tacit consent, watch out for one another.  This is by and large true despite the vigor with which we sometimes attack one another’s sacred cows.  I am confident that most of the regulars here would warn other members of the community about actual or potential problems with any commercial product regardless of who produces that product.  That one particular purveyor of fly fishing related products chooses to use this forum as his personal marketing outlet should not , and does not, exempt him from the same scrutiny and criticism which any other manufacturer is subject to.  And if his products and his character bring out in public reviews which hurt his business well, what can one say but Tough Shit?!

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Was it Gatlinburg in mid-July, had you just it town and your throat was dry, and did think you’d stop and have yourself a brew?

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Right on John. I first went there in 1931 at age 6. A straw mattress and kerosene lamp. Jack in Nashville.

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Just to clarify; I cancelled my purchase of the rod privately, via e-mail, to George on Sept. 30th. My post on ROFF a week later was no different then anyone posting about a broken rod tip, some warranty, some service fee, etc. from any rod, reel, etc. company. BTW, it’s been a long time now but didn’t G post some of the names and number of orders he had? Finally, yes I guess my post may not have been very tactful. I’ll hereby give myself 10 lashes with a wet noodle.

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Always nice too see the leader of a customer service organization using terms like ‘insect brain’ in a public forum. Especially when its in reference to a potential customer. George, I dont care if your rods are beamed here from God himself or if they truly are the low end of the market. With the defensive, insulting, condescending, aloof and generally surly attitude you take, your business is doomed to fail. If I bought something off of you and decided to return it, and you sent me a nasty-gram along with my refund check, you would regret it for the rest of your business life. Tom.

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George did everything he could to sell his Bastards (ie. SPAM), take orders and impress us with his genius on this newsgroup.  What goes around come around.  Thus, I think it fair to cancel an order via this newsgroup, even if not tactful.

And you’re right, it isn’t tactful. Respectfully, Gladys M. Gehrke Executive Secretary Bastard Fly Rod Company

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every one here knows exactly what they are missing

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every one here knows exactly what they are missing

______ You’re full of it, insect brain.  Along with the other turkeys in Roff just like you. Mr.G.

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I’ve never posted about the Bastard, but i dont think its fair to say in public that you plan on canceling an order on a rod that you havent seen.  If you have worries about the bastard, its perfectly fine to cancel an order, but to say it in a public forum is just unfairly hurting another person’s business.  Maybe Mr.G’s rods arent perfect but from what i hear, he does have a money back guarantee so you’re not running much risk by at least having it shipped to you to be inspected. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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—-snip—- BTW, have you ever walked into a store intending to buy something and were so offended by what you saw of the interaction between sales and customer that you said to yourself, "forget this", and just turned around and walked out.

—-snip—-

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—-snip—- BTW, have you ever walked into a store intending to buy something and were so offended by what you saw of the interaction between sales and customer that you said to yourself, "forget this", and just turned around and walked out. —-snip—-

Gatlinburg! A place I remember with wood sidewalks where I bought one of the finest pair of moccasins I ever owned, real sqaw chewed Cherokee mocs. On the Illinois plains I could fly with them but in rocky terrain were less than ideal. That was 50yrs ago, before all the super interstates and a trip there from Dwight Ill. was an occasion and adventure. Most folks of the area went to Wisconsin or Michigan for pike or musky not to Tenn. for trout. It’s now probably a huge city full of crap and corruption like most of the other places that were peacfull and friendly in my long ago youth.                                                         John Popp                                                      in Sanford Fl.

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George did everything he could to sell his Bastards (ie. SPAM), take orders and impress us with his genius on this newsgroup.  What goes around come around.  Thus, I think it fair to cancel an order via this newsgroup, even if not tactful. And you’re right, it isn’t tactful. Respectfully, Gladys M. Gehrke Executive Secretary Bastard Fly Rod Company

  george, oh i mean gladys (yeah, right), i tried being tactful with your patient, i mean husband. and look where it got me. he comes on here and dumps shit on ANYONE who says ANYTHING that isn’t totally in agreement with his delusions about his rods. the guy is unstable, megalomaniacal,egocentric and a pathalogical liar. i fear for your safety "gladys". if he hasn’t sucked you into his Frostcukoo land beyond all hopes of escape, then RUN Gladys RUN before it’s too late.       bob smith, former weel wisher till i got slammed for trying to tell GG the truth. Before you buy.

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George did everything he could to sell his Bastards (ie. SPAM), take orders and impress us with his genius on this newsgroup.  What goes around come around.  Thus, I think it fair to cancel an order via this newsgroup, even if not tactful.

_______  You don’t know what you’re missing.   Gladys Gehrke

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Question:

Hello fisherman: I have a fresh water fishing bulletin board for posting any fresh water info you would like… my web site is FISHING… stop in, post some info at: http://www.clearlight.com/~tyrone… info welcome from any where in the world…. fly fishing also… fresh or saltwater..

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Hello fisherman: I have a fresh water fishing bulletin board for posting any fresh water info you would like… my web site is FISHING… stop in, post some info at: http://www.clearlight.com/~tyrone… info welcome from any where in the world…. fly fishing also… fresh or saltwater..

I DID CHECK IT OUT.  NOTHING THRILLING!

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Fish Location, Log, and Map Analysis Program. Helps locate fish and suggests places and baits. Add maps to your fishing log/diary! Log contains:   Fish type,                 Where caught ( Map to use )                 Time and date                 Temp. air and water at depth caught                 Weather front information                 Sky conditions                 Bait and Presentation                 Caught by                 Weight, Length, Girth                 Water clarity                 Water current                 Barometric readings Reports can sort and analyze all the above.  Reports can group, up to three, categories of the above in any combination. See data for all fish caught grouped by the lunar cycle caught, what the weather front information was, and the barometric conditions at the time! Plus hundreds more, all to your specs. Using your history, Fish Traker can look at any map entered into Fish Traker and show you where to look by matching your past history conditions and the time you intend to go out! Analyze maps by your successes not someone’s guesses. Great for tournament fishing! All maps and reports print to any graphics printer. FREE demo available by going to GO TO in the main menu and select Search Software Libraries.   Use ‘fishlite’ for the search key and select Search.  Down load the latest version.  Windows ‘95 and NT users do not need the WIN32s supporting DLLs.   The production release contains the WIN32s DLLs needed to run if you do need them or just Search for WIN32s in the Search function and download that also.  Unzip or copy the data to a disk and install Fish Traker from diskette. $29.95 + $2 S/H   Check/MO/ MasterCard/Visa accepted GB Software MS 1 Box 125 Oxford Junction, IA 52323 (319) 486 2277

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Question:

writes: Do people routinely use this technique?  It seems to me that you can just about always get further downstream and quarter upstream, mend upstream and get an easier dragfree drift.  

I think most people consider the downstream mend as a tension technique, but it doesn’t have to be.  One of the reasons to make a downstream mend to help your drift is to throw an elbow into the line which will make it easier to shake out extra line for a downstream drift without moving the fly. You can use the elbow for the extra surface tension to pull against to feed line as long as you don’t pull too hard against it.  Sort of like this:                                                                                                                                                            / Also, sometimes you need to make a downstream mend because the water closer to you has slowed down in relation to the fly and if you don’t mend it will cause tension and thus drag.  One of the things to keep in mind when you’re having a tough time with a drift is that if mending in one direction doesn’t work, try mending it the other.  And remember it may not always be in your best interest to mend the entire line but rather only specific sections of it.                                 Hope this helps,                                        Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Schools Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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The  down and across drift applys to wet fly and streamer fishing. You want to apply a swimming motion to the fly and present it at a sideway profile to the fish. When you use this method strip the fly back to you at the end of the drift and it looks like a bait fish swimming upstream.  The method you describe about casting upstream and mending line is a nymphing method. Totally different. This is called a Lisenering lift. Where you cast upstream, lifting the rod tip as the fly approaches you to remove the slack and then lowering the rod tip as the fly passes your position. All the while keeping your rod tip in position with the fly through out the drift. Some of the newer guys like to call this high stick nymphing. Call it what you like it is a effective way to nymph. I could go into more detail, but I think you get the picture.                                          Mark Heskett

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Do people routinely use this technique?  It seems to me that you can just about always get further downstream and quarter upstream, mend upstream and get an easier dragfree drift.  If you do the down stream thing you have to wobble the rod to get more line out or mend a lot of line downstream putting you at a greater distance from your fly yet this seems to be a common way to fish everything from open streams to pocketwater. Am I missing something?

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Down and across is an extremely effective method of presenting a dry or emerger to selective fish in flat water….the ONLY successful method in many Spring Creek situations…                         Mike in PDX                "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                                            Tom McGuane

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: Down and across is an extremely effective method of presenting a dry or : emerger to selective fish in flat water….the ONLY successful method : in many Spring Creek situations… Besides this good advice, why not try and cover the entire "clock" from each position?  Up and across, followed by down and across, both sides, then move down or upstream. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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Do people routinely use this technique?  It seems to me that you can just about always get further downstream and quarter upstream, mend upstream and get an easier dragfree drift.  If you do the down stream thing you have to wobble the rod to get more line out or mend a lot of line downstream putting you at a greater distance from your fly yet this seems to be a common way to fish everything from open streams to pocketwater. Am I missing something?

Hi, Contrary to popular belief, a drag-free drift is not always the most effective presentation. Fishing for steelhead, salmon, shad, stripers, (and yes, even trout), it is often more effective to fish the fly with movement against the current. Of course, one can fish down-and-across, drag-free, which offers the great advantage of showing the fly before the leader. I hope this helps,   Alan.   Alan Barnard   Kiene’s Fly Shop   Sacramento, Ca.   WWW Fly Tyer   http://www.ns.net/~barnard

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do people routinely use this technique?  It seems to me that you can just about always get further downstream and quarter upstream, mend upstream and get an easier dragfree drift.  If you do the down stream thing you have to wobble the rod to get more line out or mend a lot of line downstream putting you at a greater distance from your fly yet this seems to be a common way to fish everything from open streams to pocketwater. Am I missing something? Hi, Contrary to popular belief, a drag-free drift is not always the most effective presentation. Fishing for steelhead, salmon, shad, stripers, (and yes, even trout), it is often more effective to fish the fly with movement against the current. Of course, one can fish down-and-across, drag-free, which offers the great advantage of showing the fly before the leader. I hope this helps,   Alan.

     Quartering downstream is a tight line technique, and probably about the oldest technique for fly fishing there is.  Typically used for wet fly and streamer fishing, casting across the current allows the fly to sink.  At the end of the drift, the fly swings in the current (on a tight line) and rises through the water profile until the fly is hanging in the current downstream of you.  To get more depth before the swing, you can make your cast straight across or quartering upstream.   Most hits seem to come as the fly swings.  This can be an effective technique for nymph fishing as well.  (Quartering downstream minimizes "drift" time and maximizes the "swing" time for each cast). John

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Hi John, Of course, one can fish down-and-across, drag-free, which offers the great advantage of showing the fly before the leader. Quartering downstream is a tight line technique, and probably about the oldest technique for fly fishing there is.

The drag-free downstream technique I was referring to is the now common practice on spring creeks of casting downstrream and feeding line at a rate slightly faster than the current. This can be a deadly method on finicky fish that have been heavily fished over. Best wishes,   Alan.   Alan Barnard   Kiene’s Fly Shop   Sacramento, Ca.   WWW Fly Tyer   http://www.ns.net/~barnard

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Question:

Try this Bill A.

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This newsgrp is too big and diverse for me.  Is there a fly-fishing or fly-tying only newsgroup that one can subscribe to?  I’m in Oregon, and I can’t believe there aren’t enough folks out there to have a newsgroup!

Yes, there is a flyfishing group.  It’s called rec.outdoors.fishing.fly. However, it has even more traffic then rec.outdoors.fishing.  I recently put in a Call For Discussion for rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying to try and separate some of the tying discussion out of the main group.  There hasn’t been much discussion at all.  The Call For Votes should be coming up soon.  r.o.f.f. is a good group.  There are a lot of regulars that have been reading the group and a few accomplished flyfishers including Ralph and Lisa Cutter that contribute regularly.  The Cutters run the top rated flyfishing school in the country (US). — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

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This newsgrp is too big and diverse for me.  Is there a fly-fishing or fly-tying only newsgroup that one can subscribe to?  I’m in Oregon, and I can’t believe there aren’t enough folks out there to have a newsgroup!

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Question:

writes:  Can someone give me a guide to estimating the weight of trout in  the 12-24 inch range. Just a guestimate chart would do. I know  there are a lot of variables. Many thanks.  –  Scott Branyan  Rogers, AR

<grin NZ limits restrict us to fish over 13" down here, so I ain’t gonna be of much assistance I am afraid. One of the more important factors down here is taken by a Condition factor variable, taking into account weight, length and girth. So most *Serious* kiwi anglers don’t like to take those fish below anything less than say 4-5lb. We have an extremely active conservation movement in most areas considered "Trophy" catchments, whereby one can donate the fish for hatchery purposes when exceeding Condition factors of in excess 80-85. This is achieved by way of permanent nets suspended below rubber tyre tubes anchored near the more popular spots, that or the many hatchery traps found a short distance upstream from a lake outlet. The movement towards catch and release in NZ has found great support in recent years, with only the minimum being taken for domestic purposes. You may be interested to know, that it is illegal to sell, buy or market Trout in NZ, other than by specific virtue of the Internal Affairs department, mainly for Tourism purposes. Back to your question however, ummmmm … no sorry <grin Just thought you might be interested in a different perspective . <smile. Regards .. Tim.D Wellington, New Zealand.

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 <<Can someone give me a guide to estimating the weight of trout in the 12-24 inch range. … Hi Scott- I have a chart that will figure the weight of any trout you’ll ever catch. *it’s free for the asking* On the back it has a lot of equally cool info. We include it in our student handouts…. *don’t be bashful, I encourage you to use them (rather than weigh the fish till its dead)*

I just guesstimate the length of the fish (relative to a mark on the rod) then (length in inches)cubed/1870 ~ pounds…. crude but works ok for typical stream/river trout this puts 12" at 1lb and 24inch at 7lb (perhaps high unless the fishery is rich and the trout are heavy- )    If you have a club and want a bunch just ask! (don’t worry. it’s free and we won’t put you on our perpetual mailing list of fly fishing junk mail unless you specifically request it!)    Tight Lines, Ralph —

our page at http://www.insideout.com/current/s_fish.htm) BTW Ralph, I really like your book! Mike

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Kumlien) writes: I have been told by fisheries biologists that the following formula works well for computing weight of any species of fish.  I once met British Columbia steelhead biologist who told me they use this formula for weight estimates for biological work.  I have tried it a lot, and it seems pretty reliable.  Here it is.  Lenght x (girth squared) divided by 800=weight in pounds.  i.e.  20 inch trout with 10 inch girth would figure out to 2000/ 800=2 1/2 pounds and so on.  Try it out.  Dave That’s great for streamside, but when hearing about it from the angler, you must reduce it .167823% for each oz. of alcohol consumed prior to the recounting of the catch.

And what about a nice formula to calculate with the Metric system: Meter, Kilo etc. (so it becomes a global tool). == The Flyfishing Dutchman ==

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<<Can someone give me a guide to estimating the weight of trout in the 12-24 inch range. Just a guestimate chart would do. I know there are a lot of variables. Many thanks.

Hi Scott- I have a chart that will figure the weight of any trout you’ll ever catch. *it’s free for the asking* On the back it has a lot of equally cool info. We include it in our student handouts.    If you (or anyone else out there) would like one, send me your snail mail address and I’ll be happy to get it to you. *don’t be bashful, I encourage you to use them (rather than weigh the fish till its dead)*    If you have a club and want a bunch just ask! (don’t worry. it’s free and we won’t put you on our perpetual mailing list of fly fishing junk mail unless you specifically request it!)    Tight Lines, Ralph —

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Kumlien) writes: I have been told by fisheries biologists that the following formula works well for computing weight of any species of fish.  I once met British Columbia steelhead biologist who told me they use this formula for weight estimates for biological work.  I have tried it a lot, and it seems pretty reliable.  Here it is.  Lenght x (girth squared) divided by 800=weight in pounds.  i.e.  20 inch trout with 10 inch girth would figure out to 2000/ 800=2 1/2 pounds and so on.  Try it out.  Dave

That’s great for streamside, but when hearing about it from the angler, you must reduce it .167823% for each oz. of alcohol consumed prior to the recounting of the catch.

Response:

Can someone give me a guide to estimating the weight of trout in the 12-24 inch range. Just a guestimate chart would do. I know there are a lot of variables. Many thanks. — Scott Branyan Rogers, AR

Response:

I have been told by fisheries biologists that the following formula works well for computing weight of any species of fish.  I once met British Columbia steelhead biologist who told me they use this formula for weight estimates for biological work.  I have tried it a lot, and it seems pretty reliable.  Here it is.  Lenght x (girth squared) divided by 800=weight in pounds.  i.e.  20 inch trout with 10 inch girth would figure out to 2000/ 800=2 1/2 pounds and so on.  Try it out.  Dave

Response:

Question:

Has anyone had any experience with the Scientific Angelers fly fishing package that you see in the stores?

They are nice little outfits. I honestly don’t know how they can afford to sell the things so cheaply.  St. Croix makes the rod and it is similar to their Imperial XL series.  Good value for the money.  I think they are trying to get someone up to usable quality who might otherwise end up with the $75 KMart special.  Note:  New ones are the 9′ 6wts which features a redesigned rod, last years was an 8′ 6" 6 wt.  Since everyone knows us West Coast folk won’t fish anything that starts w/ 8′, you can tell my bias. . .  :-) –Jim in Northern CA

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Has anyone had any experience with the Scientific Angelers fly fishing package that you see in the stores? I have a friend who may be interested in buying one to see if he likes fly fishing. Richard Warren Raleigh, NC

i’ve tried the 8wt.. The reel is good.. but the rod is not.. in my opinion they could have chosen from a hundred other better rods for less money.. if you get a chance.. take the rod out of the package and put it together and take a couple false casts on it.. it’s a real power house near the butt section but the tip section is slow.. keg

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Has anyone had any experience with the Scientific Angelers fly fishing package that you see in the stores? I have a friend who may be interested in buying one to see if he likes fly fishing. Richard Warren Raleigh, NC

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