Question:

The Longest Silence, Thomas McGuane I’ve only started the book, but I am already humbled by McGuane’s story-telling in this book.

I enthusiastically agree.  Even though most of the material in this book is recycled from "An Outside Chance, 2nd Ed." which was recycled from the first edition, which was a compilation of essays published in "Sports Illustrated" (in their glory days in the 70’s) and elsewhere, this book is a must-read.  McGuane has a gift for writing like nobody else I know. I wish I had been born 15 years earlier, and had been in Key West in the early 70’s, when it was haunted by McGuane, Russell Chatham, Jim Harrison, and Jimmy Buffett.  Don’t even want to go there now, I fear it would be a horrible disappointment. Kevin

Response:

The Longest Silence, Thomas McGuane I’ve only started the book, but I am already humbled by McGuane’s story-telling in this book.   No offense to you guys (many of whom write good <g), but McGuane’s narrative takes me right into the places and experiences in his fishing life, be it fly fishing for trout or spin casting for stripers in the surf.   If the rest of the book is as pleasant as the first part, I just may have to buy a copy.   Definitely a good read.

This is the finest fishing-related book I’ve read in many years. Maybe ever. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

The Longest Silence, Thomas McGuane I’ve only started the book, but I am already humbled by McGuane’s story-telling in this book.   No offense to you guys (many of whom write good <g), but McGuane’s narrative takes me right into the places and experiences in his fishing life, be it fly fishing for trout or spin casting for stripers in the surf.   If the rest of the book is as pleasant as the first part, I just may have to buy a copy.   Definitely a good read. Joe F. Ordinarily I’d finish a book before commenting, but I’m overdue for a decent on-topic post, and I’m really liking this book.

joe, that book is one of my favorites… it’s been awhile, mebbe i’m due for a re-read. walt

Response:

Ordinarily I’d finish a book before commenting, but I’m overdue for a decent on-topic post

    do us all a favor.  send a copy to forty. wayno

Response:

The Longest Silence, Thomas McGuane I’ve only started the book, but I am already humbled by McGuane’s story-telling in this book.   No offense to you guys (many of whom write good <g), but McGuane’s narrative takes me right into the places and experiences in his fishing life, be it fly fishing for trout or spin casting for stripers in the surf.   If the rest of the book is as pleasant as the first part, I just may have to buy a copy.   Definitely a good read.

It just keeps getting better as your read through it. There’s a piece on permit fishing toward the end that is possibly the best thing that I have read on fly fishing. Peter G. Aitken

Response:

The Longest Silence, Thomas McGuane I’ve only started the book, but I am already humbled by McGuane’s story-telling in this book.   No offense to you guys (many of whom write good <g), but McGuane’s narrative takes me right into the places and experiences in his fishing life, be it fly fishing for trout or spin casting for stripers in the surf.   If the rest of the book is as pleasant as the first part, I just may have to buy a copy.   Definitely a good read. Joe F. Ordinarily I’d finish a book before commenting, but I’m overdue for a decent on-topic post, and I’m really liking this book.

Response:

Question:

<SNIP IT’S OVER.  LET IT DIE. This Rupe thing is ripping up apart.  There are ROFFians on both side of the fence and each group will never totally agree with each other.  That’s okay. We can either continue bickering back and forth with nothing ever being resolved or we can just decide to be silent on the issue.  I choose silence. There are so many other things to talk about.

<SNIP Vern, you were a little over-zealous in your support of this action, and I did warn you that it might get ugly, and to be perhaps a little more circumspect. I am not censuring you in any way, you did what you believed was right, and in a good cause.  You stood up for something you believed in, and you have every right to be proud of it.  Do not let anybody else try to persuade you otherwise.  ROFF is made up of a lot of people, the vast majority are perfectly well aware that what was done was the correct thing to do, irrespective of any hair-splitting debates which may occur as an aftermath. I assume the fact that some of your letters are being touted as "hate-mail" etc is unsettling you. Don’t worry about it, there is nothing in those letters which could upset anybody at all with any sense. Simply the request to the sponsors to withdraw their support. You should see my mail !  I did not realise there were so many dangerous nutcases supporting the killing of Indians, I even got mail from some people claiming to be Indians, saying they supported old Rupe.  They really must be nuts. It will take more than something of this nature to "rip ROFF apart".  Try to calm down a bit.  Go fishing ! Tight lines ! Mike Connor

Response:

I look at it a little different.  Yes, I was one of the more loud voices. However, I don’t believe anyone wanted FAOL to disappear.  I know I didn’t. Additionally, they don’t have to.  No one’s asking for that.  FAOL is a good web-site that has a lot of good information on it.  We only wanted the last article from Rupe removed.  That’s all.  It was a moral issue.  We took action regarding a possible resolution.  The longer FAOL resisted the more public anger grew.  That’s just normal. Now that the life of FAOL is in question, it’s like dancing on a dying friend.  I don’t see any glory or pride in this.  Furthermore, it’s not necessary.  With the new information about the possible demise of FAOL, the continued debate that has no resolution becomes meaningless.  If a resolution was possible, that would be different because the debate would have purpose.  There is no resolution and there will never be a resolution to the continued treads.  I then ask, why do the threads continuing?  What does everyone want from continuing the debate? Vern – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I totally agree.  I’ve even thought about leaving ROFF for a week or two until all the Rupe threads die out. IT’S OVER.  LET IT DIE. This Rupe thing is ripping up apart.  There are ROFFians on both side of the fence and each group will never totally agree with each other.  That’s okay. We can either continue bickering back and forth with nothing ever being resolved or we can just decide to be silent on the issue.  I choose silence. There are so many other things to talk about. There’s nothing you, I, or anyone can do at this point.  What FAOL chooses to do from here on out is up to themselves.  Everything up to this point is history.  I exhort you, let’s just continue with the ffing.  Please. I must say I’m a little bit disappointed in you on this one Vern.  In the first place, the Rupe thing is hardly ripping us apart.  There have been many threads on ROFF which generated a lot more fireworks than this one.  In fact, I’ve found the debate on this one to be remarkably civilized.  This is nothing compared to what goes on in the ubiquitous C&R vs C&K threads.  Hell, even a debate about the definition of ‘meniscus’ can get uglier than this. Secondly, if I’m not mistaken, yours was one of the first and loudest voices calling for action against FAOL.  Mind you, I don’t disapprove of your action; I quite agree that something needed to be done and heartily commend you for taking a lead in informing the sponsors of what was happening.  But it seems to me at this late date that for you to call an end to the whole process, when you were so instrumental in initiating it is a bit disingenuous, especially in light of the fact that Mike has been taking the vast majority of the heat. Again, I don’t have a problem with the action you took, but I am surprised at how little any of the critics had to say to you directly about it.  Now it looks as though you’re trying to duck out while everyone is still focused on Mike’s role and you have escaped unscathed. In short, you were instrumental in stirring up this hornets’ nest, it doesn’t look good for you to be too critical of those who pay attention to the hornets.

Response:

Hi Guys, I have read with interest many of the posts regarding Ole Rupe.  I also read his article.  I have also participated in many free speech arguments in my day.  Some included very competitive national moot court competitions during law school.  I felt it was unnecessary for me to add another $.02 worth of opinions since arguments on the many faceted side of this issue have already been made and made and…..  I just did not want to continue to perpetuate this NON FLY FISHING discussion.  I have seen, heard and made many of these arguments in the past.  (So, I started this non fly fishing discussion with a dab of fishing included) <g. Just FYI, at the present time of approximately 10:35 AM in California, there were 114 and counting posts in the To Whom it may Concern thread and 41 and counting on the FAOL Closure thread.  Whew, what passion! I have read many with interest, and it has been an education for me to see how many articulate and passionate individuals are out there in the fishing world.  I applaud you all for your stands on all sides of the issue. Continue to enjoy those threads, but I have a different motivation regarding the time I spend in ROFF notwithstanding my Mea Culpa re email postage stamps.  Oops, there goes my credibility! To give you a flavor of what we are usually discussing, the fly fishing out here in California is wonderful!  In the Central Valley, we are having a very late autumn.  The leaves on the trees are turning to their fall time brilliant yellows, reds and fire oranges.  I am fishing in light Orvis breathable waders and a light shirt under my fly vest.  The Kings River is producing with reluctance, but it does not matter one iota to me.  Being there is enough for me.  For the first time in my short fly fishing ‘career’ I have tied and caught fish on a size 24 Trico Spinners.  Who would have thunk it?  I still can’t believe my eyes when a 16" fish is caught on such a small bug! Nymphing has been my passion of late though.  I broke off 2 good fish using 6X tippet with a Prince Nymph due to my lack of skill in working fish.  I learned fishing in the early ’90’s going for bass.  I can’t seem to lighten up.  I sometimes still have want to SET THE HOOK.  Hopefully, time and practice will correct this fault. The best part is that I did not consider Old Rupe while I was there on the Kings River. Pete

Response:

I totally agree.  I’ve even thought about leaving ROFF for a week or two until all the Rupe threads die out. IT’S OVER.  LET IT DIE. This Rupe thing is ripping up apart.  There are ROFFians on both side of the fence and each group will never totally agree with each other.  That’s okay. We can either continue bickering back and forth with nothing ever being resolved or we can just decide to be silent on the issue.  I choose silence. There are so many other things to talk about. There’s nothing you, I, or anyone can do at this point.  What FAOL chooses to do from here on out is up to themselves.  Everything up to this point is history.  I exhort you, let’s just continue with the ffing.  Please. Vern – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Guys, I have read with interest many of the posts regarding Ole Rupe.  I also read his article.  I have also participated in many free speech arguments in my day.  Some included very competitive national moot court competitions during law school.  I felt it was unnecessary for me to add another $.02 worth of opinions since arguments on the many faceted side of this issue have already been made and made and…..  I just did not want to continue to perpetuate this NON FLY FISHING discussion.  I have seen, heard and made many of these arguments in the past.  (So, I started this non fly fishing discussion with a dab of fishing included) <g. Just FYI, at the present time of approximately 10:35 AM in California, there were 114 and counting posts in the To Whom it may Concern thread and 41 and counting on the FAOL Closure thread.  Whew, what passion! I have read many with interest, and it has been an education for me to see how many articulate and passionate individuals are out there in the fishing world.  I applaud you all for your stands on all sides of the issue. Continue to enjoy those threads, but I have a different motivation regarding the time I spend in ROFF notwithstanding my Mea Culpa re email postage stamps.  Oops, there goes my credibility! To give you a flavor of what we are usually discussing, the fly fishing out here in California is wonderful!  In the Central Valley, we are having a very late autumn.  The leaves on the trees are turning to their fall time brilliant yellows, reds and fire oranges.  I am fishing in light Orvis breathable waders and a light shirt under my fly vest.  The Kings River is producing with reluctance, but it does not matter one iota to me.  Being there is enough for me.  For the first time in my short fly fishing ‘career’ I have tied and caught fish on a size 24 Trico Spinners.  Who would have thunk it?  I still can’t believe my eyes when a 16" fish is caught on such a small bug! Nymphing has been my passion of late though.  I broke off 2 good fish using 6X tippet with a Prince Nymph due to my lack of skill in working fish.  I learned fishing in the early ’90’s going for bass.  I can’t seem to lighten up.  I sometimes still have want to SET THE HOOK.  Hopefully, time and practice will correct this fault. The best part is that I did not consider Old Rupe while I was there on the Kings River. Pete

Response:

Take it easy, Vern. We’ve had similar blow-ups here before, but eventually everyone chills out… About a week ago – at least a couple of days before Mike’s first post wrt RAOL, I responded to someone (I think it was Jon Cook) that the extended period of Peace On ROFF "was just the calm before the next storm". I had no idea I’d be THAT correct! /daytripper (ROFF is cyclical ;^) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I totally agree.  I’ve even thought about leaving ROFF for a week or two until all the Rupe threads die out. IT’S OVER.  LET IT DIE. This Rupe thing is ripping up apart.  There are ROFFians on both side of the fence and each group will never totally agree with each other.  That’s okay. We can either continue bickering back and forth with nothing ever being resolved or we can just decide to be silent on the issue.  I choose silence. There are so many other things to talk about. There’s nothing you, I, or anyone can do at this point.  What FAOL chooses to do from here on out is up to themselves.  Everything up to this point is history.  I exhort you, let’s just continue with the ffing.  Please.

Response:

I totally agree.  I’ve even thought about leaving ROFF for a week or two until all the Rupe threads die out. IT’S OVER.  LET IT DIE. This Rupe thing is ripping up apart.  There are ROFFians on both side of the fence and each group will never totally agree with each other.  That’s okay. We can either continue bickering back and forth with nothing ever being resolved or we can just decide to be silent on the issue.  I choose silence. There are so many other things to talk about. There’s nothing you, I, or anyone can do at this point.  What FAOL chooses to do from here on out is up to themselves.  Everything up to this point is history.  I exhort you, let’s just continue with the ffing.  Please.

I must say I’m a little bit disappointed in you on this one Vern.  In the first place, the Rupe thing is hardly ripping us apart.  There have been many threads on ROFF which generated a lot more fireworks than this one.  In fact, I’ve found the debate on this one to be remarkably civilized.  This is nothing compared to what goes on in the ubiquitous C&R vs C&K threads.  Hell, even a debate about the definition of ‘meniscus’ can get uglier than this. Secondly, if I’m not mistaken, yours was one of the first and loudest voices calling for action against FAOL.  Mind you, I don’t disapprove of your action; I quite agree that something needed to be done and heartily commend you for taking a lead in informing the sponsors of what was happening.  But it seems to me at this late date that for you to call an end to the whole process, when you were so instrumental in initiating it is a bit disingenuous, especially in light of the fact that Mike has been taking the vast majority of the heat.  Again, I don’t have a problem with the action you took, but I am surprised at how little any of the critics had to say to you directly about it.  Now it looks as though you’re trying to duck out while everyone is still focused on Mike’s role and you have escaped unscathed. In short, you were instrumental in stirring up this hornets’ nest, it doesn’t look good for you to be too critical of those who pay attention to the hornets.

Response:

snip<

No sweat, Vern.   This is just one of those discussions that helps bring another dimension to the faceless names here.   Nobody really gets too pissed off, and we get to learn a little bit about each other.   It’s not really a bad thing; it’s what we seem to be.   And after it’s over, we’re still friends (mostly <g).   Nobody would put any of this ahead of a day on the water.   Aside from a waste of bandwidth, it’s harmless, and sometimes fun. Joe F.

Response:

In short, you were instrumental in stirring up this hornets’ nest, it doesn’t

look good for you to be too critical of those who pay attention to the hornets.< As I said initially, I was out of town, missed the start.   Hmmm, Vern, eh?   Should I start all over again?  <g

Response:

Ah, yes, fishing!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <SNIP IT’S OVER.  LET IT DIE. This Rupe thing is ripping up apart.  There are ROFFians on both side of the fence and each group will never totally agree with each other.  That’s okay. We can either continue bickering back and forth with nothing ever being resolved or we can just decide to be silent on the issue.  I choose silence. There are so many other things to talk about. <SNIP Vern, you were a little over-zealous in your support of this action, and I did warn you that it might get ugly, and to be perhaps a little more circumspect. I am not censuring you in any way, you did what you believed was right, and in a good cause.  You stood up for something you believed in, and you have every right to be proud of it.  Do not let anybody else try to persuade you otherwise.  ROFF is made up of a lot of people, the vast majority are perfectly well aware that what was done was the correct thing to do, irrespective of any hair-splitting debates which may occur as an aftermath. I assume the fact that some of your letters are being touted as "hate-mail" etc is unsettling you. Don’t worry about it, there is nothing in those letters which could upset anybody at all with any sense. Simply the request to the sponsors to withdraw their support. You should see my mail !  I did not realise there were so many dangerous nutcases supporting the killing of Indians, I even got mail from some people claiming to be Indians, saying they supported old Rupe.  They really must be nuts. It will take more than something of this nature to "rip ROFF apart".  Try to calm down a bit.  Go fishing ! Tight lines ! Mike Connor

Response:

You’re my man, Ken. I got your back.

Ditto.  In spades.

Response:

To Debate is interesting and often educational, to Argue, name call and belittle is not…

Is so.   Ignorant Twerp.      

Response:

Wolfgang the bully, writes:

<<Is so.   Ignorant Twerp.       Boy, I’m glad you did tell ol Jim to BMAIAL.  I have that one.  Even use it in my address for anti-spam.  Don’t know what I would do without it.  <g Dave L.

Response:

David, This is so off the mark that I really got a good laugh out of your post.  One thing I have never been accused of is to be a closet anything, or to hide behind anyone.  My wife would really get a kick out of this (BG).  We have a good friend living on Bainbridge Island, and my impression of the place is that a lot of spoiled aging yuppies lived there.  I’m afraid that you have reinforced that image in my mind. Ken, I expected more from someone with an edu address.  "Frogboy"??  (LOL).  I guess it fits that the edu address goes with living in a very sheltered environment. You want to use the word fuckin and you have to use ***’s??  As far as hard-earned flyfishing dollars, you should try to make your living in the real world (G). Kermit – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ken Oh they take it seriously. They’re the closet racist’s who provide a respectable chorus line to guys like Rupe, and love to hide behind well meaning folks who honestly wonder where the free speech line is, or who are honest political conservatives. The dead giveaway is that they have no bottom line. Ive run into them before here in the NW,  home of the Aryan Nations. They know that murderous remarks like Rupe’s are important because they intimidate minorities from participation in many activities and forums. Its very effective and a lot less risky that acting out their bullshit at work, bombing a church or killing someone on a dark road. They are gutless. They are wacko’s. But they are not stupid. Dave I am bothered by the article, but I would not have taken it seriously anyway.  But I am much more bothered by the pc mob mentality that I witnessed here.  I don’t feel that there is anything to be very proud off here. Blow it out yer ass, frogboy. Just because you’re too f***in’ stupid to take seriously the most vile and vicious racial epithet that can be hurled at Native Americans is no reason to demean the many good people of ROFF that are QUITE proud that this little piece of racist garbage is no longer sponsored by good companies competing for our hard earned flyfishing dollars. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Now I just have to figure out how to suspend a reference line over my head next time out on the pond or a lake… Michael Era

Question:

Looking for info on fly fishing around Lava Hot Springs, Idaho. I will be there in August of ‘99 for a week and would like to fly fish the area with out a 2 hour drive. Could use any and all help. Thanks in advance for any suggestions. JWTrout

Response:

Looking for info on fly fishing around Lava Hot Springs, Idaho. I will be there in August of ‘99 for a week and would like to fly fish the area with out a 2 hour drive. Could use any and all help. Thanks in advance for any suggestions. JWTrout

John: I don’t have my information here in front of me, but one place you might want to try is the Blackfoot River above Blackfoot Reservoir.  If you do a little checking, you’ll find that the Nature Conservancy and the State of Idaho have purchased a large piece of land surrounding the river and are in the process of restoring the cutthroat fishery there.  Based on pictures I’ve seen, it looks like classic meadow fishing and supposedly there is starting to be some very good fishing. There is also a rod-fee fishery on the Blackfoot Indian Reservation in the something-or-other Springs close to the Snake River near the town of Blackfoot. There is an Idaho Flyfishing book that I’ll look up when I get home.  It has quite a few suggestions for SE Idaho fishing. Bob

Response:

Looking for info on fly fishing around Lava Hot Springs, Idaho. I will be there in August of ‘99 for a week and would like to fly fish the area with out a 2 hour drive. Could use any and all help. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Check out this website         www.2.state.id.us/fishgame/askfish.htm It might help you out Big Al

Response:

Looking for info on fly fishing around Lava Hot Springs, Idaho.

No fishing there. Nope. None.  Don’t bother to bring waders. For some reason Idaho Fish and Game close the river in town to fishing.  Afraid people would hook a swimmer or something. As for fishing ousid of Lava Hotsprings.  Just drive around until you find a stream.   An Idaho Topo Atlas by Delorme is worth the $15 investment even if you are only going to use it that week. Carl

Response:

bring your float tube and try out Daniels, Twenty-Four Mile, and Chesterfield Reservoirs.

Response:

Question:

Okay, if I am posting to the wrong group – I sincerely am sorry – I just am not certain how this Deja thing works and I DO NOT want to intrude on discussion groups.  This group came up under my search for fishing marketplace and collectibles.  Antique fly reel in great shape.  Pflueger Medalist Fly Reel.  Ends on eBay Tues. 8/25.  Bids are at $20.50.  No Reserve.  This really is nice.  If you want to take a look here are the links.  Thanks!  eBay No. 26267477 http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=26267477 — Arlykat on eBay

Response:

How Refreshing!!!!! … an apologetic Spammer! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Okay, if I am posting to the wrong group – I sincerely am sorry – I just am not certain how this Deja thing works and I DO NOT want to intrude

Response:

Question:

Great Post!! I had the advantage of learning an appreciation of nature & fishing from my father at an early age. Although he wasn’t a fly fisherman & we fished for bass, musky, northerns etc, he had a love of wilderness & we shared some wonderful times together. Since leaving my father’s home some thirty years ago & moving to Colorado, I’ve evolved into a fly fisherman through alot of reading, trial & error, and countless hours on the stream. The way I fish today, is very different from the fishing I did with my father, but it is firmly rooted in the appreciation of fish, water & nature I learned from him.   I flyfish in my own way, that is more restrictive than George’s "one" definition. But this is FOR ME. I don’t define flyfishing for others by how I fish.  I would probably be considered to be following the "Art Form.". For me, when things are "right", the pleasure is viseral, elementary & fundamental & may or may not involve catching fish. However, flaming, belittling other people’s ideas or ways of doing things, & self rightuous preachings do not advances one’s cause. In fact the opposite is the result. Like most things, flyfishing is personnal & individual. There are no rules except for those you choose to follow. There is no one right way. Willi

Response:

I never used a strike indicator until about two years ago.  My eyes are deteriorating because of diabetes and I have trouble seeing my leader/line.  I put on a piece of yarn I got from my wife (Lefty’s idea), and was amazed at the strikes I was able to detect.

  I limit the use of strike indicators for those times of day when I would otherwise be unable to see my leader, so I guess i’m as unethical as Dave. Anybody who uses anything to aid his visual capacity must be unethical; I demand that all of you unethical polaroid user/abusers turn yourselves in at once.                                     Charlie

Response:

William Loehman writes:

<<…..However, flaming, belittling other people’s ideas or ways of doing things, & self rightuous preachings do not advances one’s cause. In fact the opposite is the result. A couple of great posts, especially the above.  I learned to fly fish in the 40s from my mom and dad, on the Deerfield, the Westfield, and the Farmington rivers.  We did not have most of the "neat" things available to fly fishermen today.  We didn’t have zingers  or nippers.   And, we didn’t have strike indicators OR Gink.  The flames I have seen on ROFF must come in jest, because if you approve of one innovation (Gink for instance) but disapprove of another (strike indicators, for instance), then you are surely a hypocrite of the first order.   I never used a strike indicator until about two years ago.  My eyes are deteriorating because of diabetes and I have trouble seeing my leader/line.  I put on a piece of yarn I got from my wife (Lefty’s idea), and was amazed at the strikes I was able to detect.  It was as if a was a boy in the 40s, fishing a wet fly!   I also sometimes use the things when fishing a dry, for I find it difficult to see my #16 caddis in fast water.  However, they do affect the drift in a negative way.  Orvis’ Quick Site orange butt leaders are also helpful for me to see the fly. Fly fishing has always been a visceral thing with me (and probably with most other folk also!).  And, it has always been a solitary venture.  You may "go" with a fishing buddy or two, but once you make your first cast, you are "alone".  If I need something to help me continue fly fishing (strike indicators), I will use it and I could shive a git what some narrow-minded bigoted people think of it.   And if you come upon me on a stream and call me "lazy" or "ignorant" or "stupid", well, you will be in a helluva lot of trouble. Dave LaCourse

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Great Post!! I had the advantage of learning an appreciation of nature & fishing from my father at an early age. Although he wasn’t a fly fisherman & we fished for bass, musky, northerns etc, he had a love of wilderness & we shared some wonderful times together. Since leaving my father’s home some thirty years ago & moving to Colorado, I’ve evolved into a fly fisherman through alot of reading, trial & error, and countless hours on the stream. The way I fish today, is very different from the fishing I did with my father, but it is firmly rooted in the appreciation of fish, water & nature I learned from him. I flyfish in my own way, that is more restrictive than George’s "one" definition. But this is FOR ME. I don’t define flyfishing for others by how I fish.  I would probably be considered to be following the "Art Form.". For me, when things are "right", the pleasure is viseral, elementary & fundamental & may or may not involve catching fish. However, flaming, belittling other people’s ideas or ways of doing things, & self rightuous preachings do not advances one’s cause. In fact the opposite is the result. Like most things, flyfishing is personnal & individual. There are no rules except for those you choose to follow. There is no one right way. Willi

Somebody finally said "it all" about our sport. Congratulations Willi, you’ve really got a handle on it. Jim

Response:

I’m neither a red neck nor a yuppie, but somewhere in between. I didn’t get started in all this by some movie. I learned long ago on a river in my youth, the hard way. Many fish outings and many lessons over those early years. Today the upstarts buy a ticket at the window and get on the ride. Instantly you have a "Fly fisherman in a can." In gulp they take it all in without ever getting the true taste. They seem to acquire and possess the knowledge of several life times and doing it at hyper speed. Has Fly Fishing become a pastime that resembles a brothel in comparison? I guess most of us want the real genuine thing regardless of the amount of effort that we put forth. For some, the need is so great for success that the real elementary lessons are never really encountered. Today you can have any thing you want as long as you can pay for it. To hell with it if you have to earn it. Another example is that you can buy your way to the summit of Mt. Everest without ever having to work or earn a place on a real team. Somewhere the "Art Form of Fly Fishing" was taken over by the Science form. What does that mean? Every element has been reduced to the science matter of increasing the catch. Why, and to what end do we need the numbers? Our children have petting Zoos, do we need them too? For a number of years I was away from fly fishing, spending my time climbing and sailing. There you had to be a participant and be real to get from one place the next. You had to perform on your own merits and deficiencies and overcome your short comings. Yes, the real art form comes from within. But the science has reduced Fly Fishing to an action vs. reaction, to an event to a counter-event and so on. All the elements have been broken down to their parts to be studied and be reproduced. Blindness comes in many forms. I choose not to be one of the ones looking over the elephant. What George speaks of is the art form and trying to maintain some semblance of the true heritage. Some places are just not mente to be fished. Sort of like peeing on hallow ground. Could the heritage of fly fishing be lost in only one generation? The old-timers while not gods do have much to offer. Do we set them aside, all for the achievements for scientific end? I would rather learn form an old-timer than take the shortcut route via the scientific method. But as time moves on, new meets old and a blending occurs. Hopefully without the distortion of where we came from and adding a price tag to it. My ten year-old son summed it up the other day, "Dad, you know this is the best Sunday school that you take me to." He sees the true art form for what it is and the meaning of being skunked. He will spend more time watching and asking questions than actually fishing. He will keep a fish and throw some back for next time. He hates truck trout and the ones scared by others. We have more to learn from them than is truly realized. But is the evil metastasis occurring before our very eyes? For me its the real thing or sometimes a little hair on the palms. The store bought knowledge you can get it at the edge of most towns in Nevada. — Doug Knight                           metalfab<atefaxinc.com Junk e-mail, solicitation, sales, products and services gladly accepted at $500.00 per mailing and billed directly to your ISP. Evil flames $1,000.00 per mailing.

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Question:

The latest edition of FF (December!) that arrived today has a lengthy discussion of the situation with  the Armstrong Spring Creek and the Armstrong and Dupuy ranches.  The Randolph column features some interesting pictures and a failed attempt at being unbiased in reporting the options under consideration.  At least the column did report that the survey that is being conducted on www.flyshop.com is running 76% AGAINST restoring the spring creek. Lyman Lyman G. Hughes Dallas, TX Ennis, MT

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The latest edition of FF (December!) that arrived today has a lengthy discussion of the situation with  the Armstrong Spring Creek and the Armstrong and Dupuy ranches.  The Randolph column features some interesting pictures and a failed attempt at being unbiased in reporting the options under consideration.  At least the column did report that the survey that is being conducted on www.flyshop.com is running 76% AGAINST restoring the spring creek.Hi Lyman,

That’s more or less the oppinion of the people who live in the area as well. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 catalog)

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Question:

I am looking for a telephone number (or adress) of a company called Float Tube Unlimited. Thanks in advance                      Thomas — Sender:  Thomas Urbig          Harvard University          Institute for Molecular and Cellular Biology          16 Divinity Ave.          Cambridge, MA 02138          Tel: (USA) 617 495 3716;   Fax:  (USA)  617 496 8726

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Quoting Thomas from a message in rec.outdoors.fishing.fly    <I am looking for a telephone number (or adress) of a company called    <Float Tube Unlimited. Jim Carlisle

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I tried to get a catalog off thier 1-800 #, 3 freak’n times.   NO LUCK. Whats with that company??? I went with Cabela’s. John

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Question:

Whats the best model/brand fly line? (wf5-floating)

Response:

Whats the best model/brand fly line? (wf5-floating)

My vote is for the Ultra 3 by Scientific Anglers. Take Care,

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Whats the best model/brand fly line? (wf5-floating) My vote is for the Ultra 3 by Scientific Anglers.

Considering price as well, Cortland 333 (2nd choice 444) — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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I don’t know what the best line is but I can tell you to stay away from Courtlands Lazer Line.  I’ve got a DT5F that casts great….unfortunately it floats like a brick.  If I wanted a sinking line I would have bought one.  

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: Whats the best model/brand fly line? (wf5-floating) I am about to try out a WF6-F Mastery XPS.  Several fishing buddies and acquaintances think it is "the best". Cortland 444 lines last forever.  Cortland 444 SL lines tend to get sticky.  The Masterline series from Great Britain is not bad. — Burnaby, BC

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Whats the best model/brand fly line? (wf5-floating)

Hello William,         There are many good fly lines available to the angler today.  All of them have attributes that may or may not be what you are looking for. I don’t think you can go wrong with any of the cortland lines.  The SL lines float well and sag very little in the eyes of your rod.  The Lazer lines have small dimples in the texture,(much like a golfball) to give you the maximum distance.  My favorite line is by Scientific Anglers.  It is the Mastery XPS.  It  is a supple line allowing great control.  Not a distance line, but I am not a distance guy.  You should go into your local shop and have them explain these subtleties. They may even haave these lines available for you to cast.  Good Luck. Paul J.

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Question:

Forget it. Nothing but frustration in store for you. Get some float tubes instead.

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I would like some information regarding the usefullneess of this boat for two persons flyfishing. Specifically:

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Question:

A friend of mine needs some information on fly fishing the Chesapeake, near the Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel. He wants to know if anyone knows any good spots, how to access them, what flies to use, etc. Any information on guide services in the area would also be appreciated. Thanks!

Try Anglers Sport Center (410) 252-0556 in Annapolis, Tochtermans in Baltimore is at (410) 522-4237, Wolfs (410) 378-1112 in Ellicott City or The Fisherman’s Edge (Joe Bruce) is at (410) 719-7999 Catonsville.

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A friend of mine needs some information on fly fishing the Chesapeake, near the Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel. He wants to know if anyone knows any good spots, how to access them, what flies to use, etc. Any information on guide services in the area would also be appreciated. Thanks!

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