Question:

BTW, why not include the arbor knot? You have to attach the backing to the spool somehow. Yeah, but the guys at Orvis do that one.

They probably tie your needle knots, too. How many other people in ROFF have been streamside with a supposedly experienced flyfisherman who, when it came time to tie on a leader, had no idea how to do it? The clinch knot and nail knot both can be replaced by the Uni knot if you like.

But EVERY knot can be replaced by the clinch knot. Just ask Wayno if he ever reappears. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

How many other people in ROFF have been streamside with a supposedly experienced flyfisherman who, when it came time to tie on a leader, had no idea how to do it?

This has happened to me numerous times.  Also, many people apparently change their ( looped ),leaders at an amazing rate, because they are unable to even tie tippet on.   If you have enough time and money I don

Question:

if there’s one extra person we could have there, bar none, it’d be you.  and if it helps, we’re all jealous of you 100% of the time.  let me quote (loosely) the great jimmy buffett: you got your pickup washed and you just got paid, with any luck at all you might even get laid, rockin and a rollin on a livingston saturday night. there’s that, the yellowstone, madison, gallatin, bighorn, and bridger bowl and big sky also. bruce h

        i’ll be damned if i don’t think i see some tar heel in you goddam cowboys!  good thinkin, and good talkin, bruce! your friend in the old north state wayno

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<snipped I’ll get tying some up for us. bc. — Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -Benjamin Franklin

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It is working again.

thanks warren, i thought i’d done something miraculous when the treads started coming up readable again. Wish I was able to make it.  I am getting really jealous right now.

if there’s one extra person we could have there, bar none, it’d be you.  and if it helps, we’re all jealous of you 100% of the time.  let me quote (loosely) the great jimmy buffett: you got your pickup washed and you just got paid, with any luck at all you might even get laid, rockin and a rollin on a livingston saturday night. there’s that, the yellowstone, madison, gallatin, bighorn, and bridger bowl and big sky also. bruce h — bare your soul let your spirit burn out along the road to no return – r.e. keen Before you buy.

Response:

Let me know what size the grey ones are, and I’ll tie some up.

i’m not sure but i think they’re slightly larger.  use a tiemco 2488 size 24 and grey thread.  black thread for the rib and a crystal flash emerger wing.  black thread head. i bet we just see continued hatches of those tiny black midges, but who knows. bruce h — bare your soul let your spirit burn out along the road to no return – r.e. keen Before you buy.

Response:

I didn’t get your original post on my news server, I had to go to Deja to read it.

   I can’t get anything on the web today, just e-mail and newsgroups. Do you think Al Gore got so mad he turned off the internet?

Response:

yes, absolutely.  100% tiny black midges as far as i could tell.  with that black midge, the hatch goes quickly and the fish don’t take emergers for very long.

I have some black midges that I tied for the Green earlier this year. I’ll remember to bring them for this trip. the other midge i see a lot is grey with a black rib.  when those bugs hatch it seems like the hatch lasts longer and that the fish really get going on emergers.  just a theory though.

Almost sounds like a Grey RS2.  What size? and i’m told there are many other common midge hatches up there, it just seems like i either see black ones or grey ones with the black rib.

Let me know what size the grey ones are, and I’ll tie some up. bc. — Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -Benjamin Franklin

Response:

Are they the tiny little black midges?

yes, absolutely.  100% tiny black midges as far as i could tell.  with that black midge, the hatch goes quickly and the fish don’t take emergers for very long. the other midge i see a lot is grey with a black rib.  when those bugs hatch it seems like the hatch lasts longer and that the fish really get going on emergers.  just a theory though. and i’m told there are many other common midge hatches up there, it just seems like i either see black ones or grey ones with the black rib. bruce h — bare your soul let your spirit burn out along the road to no return – r.e. keen Before you buy.

Response:

<excellent scouting report snipped

Bruce, Thanks for the report. I didn’t get your original post on my news server, I had to go to Deja to read it. I’m hoping this spell of good weather we’re having lasts for the Juan get together. Willi

Response:

Willi, I did not get the original post either.   Bruce, Awesome report. Thanks for the selfless act of doing some recon for our benefit. I am sure the other fellow clavers thank you as well. You said people were using dry flies.  Are they the tiny little black midges? bc. — Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -Benjamin Franklin

Response:

<excellent scouting report snipped 1.  I can’t get email right now, and i’m actually having trouble with deja.com – when i get into the newsgroup the posts aren’t grouped into threads and the latest posts are from 11/21.  If anyone can help me here, i’d appreciate it.  In the meantime, if you need to reach me, call me at work 800-776-5973.  (bruce hopper’s my full name).

It is working again.  They were doing some maintenence on Deja and that was why it pulled up the weird format for the newsgroups.  When it puts a ‘*’ in the search section it means they are doing some work on the system. always wears breathables, but i switched to neoprenes at lunch and i was much more comfy after that, except when i stepped in a little deep and felt that awful feeling of water inside the waders.

There is a product called Simmseal (sp?) that works wonders for leaky neoprenes.  It is a liquid neoprene and you just pour a drop on the leak, spread it around a little and let it set.  Very easy fix once you find the leak. Wish I was able to make it.  I am getting really jealous right now. — Warren Before you buy.

Response:

I made it up to the SJ saturday to try to figure out where the fish are before everyone shows up.  Here’s a list of mostly unrelated observations: 1.  I can’t get email right now, and i’m actually having trouble with deja.com – when i get into the newsgroup the posts aren’t grouped into threads and the latest posts are from 11/21.  If anyone can help me here, i’d appreciate it.  In the meantime, if you need to reach me, call me at work 800-776-5973.  (bruce hopper’s my full name). 2.  It’s certainly tougher to see into the water with the sun so low, but when the fish are making rise forms, either taking emergers or dries, they’re easy to see.  I used several tricks to spot fish holding deeper, because sight fishing with nymphs is one of the most productive methods for me up there.  I stood on the bank, varied my angle, squinted, etc.  Early in the day, you can see into the water well from the north side of the river.  The rest of the day it help to face north and get the sun at your back. 3.  There was maybe 2.5 hrs during the day where the fish were taking dries.  I saw lots of fish on dries out in the current about 200 yards below texas hole – also a good place to get some water to yourself.  I caught fish by just putting emergers on the surface.  When i actually picked out a single fish and used a few different dry fly/tippet combos, all i got was refusals.  Tough customers. 4.  Knowing where the fish are is so important now, so i scouted the area right below the dam where the fish are known to be plentiful, large, and very selective.  They mostly take the tiny midge patterns close to the dam, although lots of folks fish leeches, worms, and eggs up there also.  I picked up only two fish there after lots of work. Both on size 24 red larva.  All day i landed 10 fish and that counts two smaller ones. 5.  Overall it was a bit of a frustrating day.  Ten fish isn’t bad, but i caught about 4 in the last half hour, nymphing deep in the main channel, blind casting where i knew there were fish.  It was cold all day and i dropped 4 or 5 flies before tying them on.  When you drop a size 24 ufo, don’t bother looking for it.  I’m one of those guys who always wears breathables, but i switched to neoprenes at lunch and i was much more comfy after that, except when i stepped in a little deep and felt that awful feeling of water inside the waders. 6.  I fish there a lot and i’ve got all the patterns and equipment, etc, but getting advice from me is a lot different than fishing with a guide.  For some reason they’ve just got it dialed in, and I think it’s mostly knowing where the fish are holding at that particular time. I’ve only fished with a guide four times up there, and each time i’ve caught far more fish than i would’ve on my own.  If anyone wants a guide for a day, i’d recommend Chris Guikema http://www.sanjuanworm.com – he is friendly and an excellent guide.  Craig at Float n Fish said he’d guide for this group (he knows we’re coming) and fishing with him would be a treat also.  Float n Fish has no website, but they can be reached at 505-632-5385 – Craig or Ray will usually answer the phone. 7.  The water was still clear, lake turnover hasn’t started yet.  Every day that goes by clear increases our chances of encountering cloudy water 8.  Something i’ve noticed lately:  Lots of guys enter the river carrying two rods, one set up for dries, one for nymphs.  At first i thought "give me a break" but when i think about it it makes some sense.  Lots of times i see fish surfacing so i quickly pull the yarn out of my leader and pop the indicator knot out and switch to emergers or a dry and by the time i’ve made the change, maybe three minutes, the fish aren’t rising any more.  So, i switch back to a deep rig and re rig and indicator (5 min) only to find the fish surfacing again. Either i’m real dumb (very likely) or these "two rod" guys have a good idea. I’m really looking forward to seeing/meeting everyone. bruce h — bare your soul let your spirit burn out along the road to no return – r.e. keen Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

Anyone have any suggestions about cleaning floating lines???  Seems I came across a bottle of Fenwick line cleaner in my odds and ends box a few months ago and struck upon the bright idea of cleaning up my fly lines.  Well I cleaned a 2 year old Sage quiet taper 2wt and an Orvis 6wt DT with about 5 years on it and discovered after fishing with them over the last few month that they both started showing extreme wear.  Both now have concentric cracks ringing the lines where there were none before… lots of them…. or at least none were noticeable before.  Both of these lines look ruined. Any thoughts??

Response:

Anyone have any suggestions about cleaning floating lines???  Seems I came across a bottle of Fenwick line cleaner in my odds and ends box a few months ago and struck upon the bright idea of cleaning up my fly lines.  Well I cleaned a 2 year old Sage quiet taper 2wt and an Orvis 6wt DT with about 5 years on it and discovered after fishing with them over the last few month that they both started showing extreme wear.  Both now have concentric cracks ringing the lines where there were none before… lots of them…. or at least none were noticeable before.  Both of these lines look ruined. Any thoughts??

______  The fly lines were dried out Ed.  When you casted them, they couldn’t stretch.  The coating cracked, especially where the fly line (about thirty feet back) pivots on the tip top of your fly rod.  There is only one fly line cleaner in the world that will restore the Plasticizers into fly lines.  I’d suggest you check out my web site for that answer.  Two fly lines is a lot of money.  Sorry you lost them Ed. Just throw them away now.  They’re shot.  Or just go to the blue thingie below. Hope this helps answer your question. — Sincerely, George G. http://www.gink.com/products/gg_pz.html

Response:

Why don’t you just turn the double taper around?  If it’s a two year old line, unless you fish it every day it should still be plenty good… if the coating is ruined on a line that "new" the manufacturer should be willin to replace it.  Typically, a FFer uses the first 30-40 feet of a DT line more than anything else, so if you turn it around, you’ll be at a diifferent "wear spot" than before =) A good habit to get into, especially if you fish infrequentyly is removing line from reels… the tight coils aren’t a real good way to store the line, and when you fish with it, the water on the outer coils seeps down onto the inner coils, leaaving moisture on the line, allowing it to collect dust and dirt. Strip the line off the reel into a bucket of warm water, then draw it through a damp cotton cloth with a SMALL amount of a MILD detergent (like Ivory soap) on it into another bucket of cool water.  Draw the line back through a dry cotton cloth into loose coils onto a clean surface.  Coil the line loosely and hang it on a hanger that has a t-shirt over the wire, then place another tshirt over it and hang it in a cool, dark place until you’re going to use it again. I do this at the end of every season and have had some Cortland and Mastery lines last 5 years with no real signs of damage… I have some Scientific Anglers seldom used lines, like quick sinking and sink-tips that are 15 years old and aren’t cracked. If you use a line in water with a lot of moss in it or salt, then you will need to wash and treat the line with a dressing on a more frequent basis, but be careful what you use… some products have lanolin in them, which will get rancid others are petrochemical based, which will eat into the coating of the lines.  Try and contact the line manufacturer if you’re unsure what may react with the coatings to be sure what you use won’t void your warranty. Larry

Response:

Question:

I went to a small creek nearby my home in central PA a couple of nights ago to continue my on the water "education" of fly fishing.  I had been to this same creek a couple of times recently and had success catching a few 10-12 inch brook trout (when I actually got my fly to go where I wanted it to!). I found a nice deep pool in this very small stream where a tree had fallen across the creek and caused a natural dam.  I could see several trout feeding there and hitting something on top so I started casting with a dry fly (Elk Hair Caddis, I think it’s called) and hooked a nice brook trout on my second or third cast. Being that the weather has been warm and the water level pretty low, I tried to bring the fish to hand as quickly as possible and don’t think I over played the trout at all.  I kept it mostly in the water to unhook it but it was a barbed hook and the trout was bleeding slightly from its lower jaw.  I got the hook out fairly quickly and made sure the trout was revived before letting it swim away…or so I thought. I kept fishing the hole for another ten or fifteen minutes and caught one more much smaller trout and released it.  Then I started to walk upstream to find another pool and I saw a shining gleam from the edge of the deep pool and realized that the first fish I caught was turned upside down in the hole and caught up on some debris and was in fact dying.  I didn’t have a net with me so I tried to get it with a stick to take it home but could not get it and stirred up so much muck that I lost sight of it. I move on but kept trying to figure out what must have gone wrong or what "rookie" mistake did I do to cause it to die. Is there a point where the water conditions just will not allow a trout to live if caught?  I don’t know what the water temp. was but I’m sure it was fairly warm (I am going to buy a stream thermometer but have not gotten one yet). Also, do most fly fisherman carry a creel just in case one dies during C&R? Please let me know if there is anything more I could have done to revive the trout.  BTW I am going to debarb my hooks from now on also. Tim

Response:

I went to a small creek nearby my home in central PA a couple of nights ago

Tom – central PA has been hot and dry this spring.  Streams are low and warm. My educated guess would be water temperature – which lowers the oxygen content and on a stressed fish could well be fatal.    by the way, 10-12 inch brookies are good size for around here, so there are some nice fish in that stream. Mark Faulkner

Response:

Hi Tim, There are several possibilities here. The first one is that it was just too warm, and the fish died because of combined stress and heat. It is best not to fish above certain temperatures, if you wish to release the fish, as the fish suffers  too much stress and often dies. Overplaying a fish will kill it as well. The other possibility is that it bled to death. Even a small hole in a fish which bleeds for a while will kill the fish fairly quickly. Fish do not have coagulating agents in their blood like mammals, and can not afford to lose much blood anyway. I have seen quite a few large Seatrout bleed to death quite quickly ( much less than half an hour in several cases ), after being released apparently unharmed. The probable cause of death was given as "blood depletion resulting in oxygen transfer  failure" by a laboratory which examined a couple of the dead fish.  In all the cases mentioned ( only two of the fish mentioned were actually examined by a professional lab), the hole left by the hook was fairly small, but obviously of a position and size sufficient to cause fatal blood loss. Several fish showed signs of distress fairly quickly, and only slight water staining ( blood ) was apparent from the mouth region when they were released. The fish mentioned were found fairly quickly at the pool outlets, and their gills were already looking a very unhealthy whitish pink colour, instead of the normal bright red. If a fish bleeds very much at all then you can write it off usually, it will not survive long. Surprisingly enough fish will often survive fairly major bodily injuries, like gashes from nets, or seals etc, especially in salt water, as long as they do not bleed too much. If they bleed however they are usually doomed. We catch quite a few fish which have been "stabbed" by herons, and they often survive this as long as they do not bleed from the gash, or are attacked by fungal or other parasites. Every year where I used to live in England we also had quite a few fish damaged by fungus etc, after being hooked and released. UDN was prevalent at the time, but this seemed to be a different sort of fungus, often originating at a hole caused by a hook, especially in the sides of the lower jaw, and also in many cases obviously by anglers handling fish with hot dry hands, the imprints left from this could be clearly seen on occasion. Has nothing to do with your problem of course, but I thought I would mention it anyway.  If you are going to handle fish, do so only with cool wet hands, and if possible avoid touching them at all, even slight damage to the protective slime will leave the fish open to disease etc. Rough dry nets are just as bad, knotted nylon being among the worst. If you fish catch and release it is easier to release fish if you use barbless hooks. Hope this helps. Tight lines ! Mike Connor

Response:

Tim,   It’s possible you caught a fish that had be caught and released earlier that day or previous night. Lot’s of really good flyfishers are working those streams in the Central PA area.   If you’re new to the sport, check out Flyfishers’ Paradise in State College. They provided me with alot of great advice, and I bought alot of first rate equipment and supplies from them. Good Luck

Response:

Tim, If you saw any blood at all, the fish probably died from blood loss. I’m sure the high water temp didn’t help either. You need to get a stream thermometer. Personally, I won’t fish water above 70 deg if I don’t intend to keep what I catch, and if I notice any bleeding from a fish, I will kill it unless the reg’s prohibit it. George Adams

Response:

Just like anyone else in this group that practices Catch and Release it is really bad to see something like that that.  That fish will not just float and rot away.  That fish will make an excellent meal for others in its food chain.  Wether it be another fish, a fox, Racoon, Bear, otter, ect.  That fish will not go to waste.  I am not saying when you fish not to use extreme care when practicing Catch and Release but sometimes a problem like such can and does happen. Tight Lines and Warm Barrels. Jeremiah Weed

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Tim, There are several possibilities here. The first one is that it was just too warm, and the fish died because of combined stress and heat. It is best not to fish above certain temperatures, if you wish to release the fish, as the fish suffers  too much stress and often dies. Overplaying a fish will kill it as well. The other possibility is that it bled to death. Even a small hole in a fish which bleeds for a while will kill the fish fairly quickly. Fish do not have coagulating agents in their blood like mammals, and can not afford to lose much blood anyway. I have seen quite a few large Seatrout bleed to death quite quickly ( much less than half an hour in several cases ), after being released apparently unharmed. The probable cause of death was given as "blood depletion resulting in oxygen transfer  failure" by a laboratory which examined a couple of the dead fish.  In all the cases mentioned ( only two of the fish mentioned were actually examined by a professional lab), the hole left by the hook was fairly small, but obviously of a position and size sufficient to cause fatal blood loss. Several fish showed signs of distress fairly quickly, and only slight water staining ( blood ) was apparent from the mouth region when they were released. The fish mentioned were found fairly quickly at the pool outlets, and their gills were already looking a very unhealthy whitish pink colour, instead of the normal bright red. If a fish bleeds very much at all then you can write it off usually, it will not survive long. Surprisingly enough fish will often survive fairly major bodily injuries, like gashes from nets, or seals etc, especially in salt water, as long as they do not bleed too much. If they bleed however they are usually doomed. We catch quite a few fish which have been "stabbed" by herons, and they often survive this as long as they do not bleed from the gash, or are attacked by fungal or other parasites. Every year where I used to live in England we also had quite a few fish damaged by fungus etc, after being hooked and released. UDN was prevalent at the time, but this seemed to be a different sort of fungus, often originating at a hole caused by a hook, especially in the sides of the lower jaw, and also in many cases obviously by anglers handling fish with hot dry hands, the imprints left from this could be clearly seen on occasion. Has nothing to do with your problem of course, but I thought I would mention it anyway.  If you are going to handle fish, do so only with cool wet hands, and if possible avoid touching them at all, even slight damage to the protective slime will leave the fish open to disease etc. Rough dry nets are just as bad, knotted nylon being among the worst. If you fish catch and release it is easier to release fish if you use barbless hooks. Hope this helps. Tight lines ! Mike Connor

Response:

One thing I have learned over the years is that if you hook a trout in the gills it will bleed to death so you might as well have it for dinner. Ernie Harrison Like to make fly-fishing stuff?  See: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh/

Response:

The other possibility is that it bled to death. Even a small hole in a fish which bleeds for a while will kill the fish fairly quickly. Fish do not have coagulating agents in their blood like mammals, and can not afford to lose much blood anyway.

I agree with Mike on this one. In my experience, a bleeding fish ends up a dead fish. Nowadays, if a fish I catch bleeds, I don’t mess around: it gets whacked straight away. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

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Question:

Thanks. I’d love to go there, maybe next year! Miikeh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Very Nice,         maybe some day I will see my local waters (On your site)   like Hat creek or the Pit River.

Response:

If anyone is intersted, I have a new fly fishing site.  It’s nothing fancy, but I would appreciate any input or suggestions.  It has lots of pictures of streams I fish near my home in Minneapolis and other streams out west.  I also will be posting the current stream conditions for spots as I fish ‘em. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mmhodg/ Thanks. MikeH

Response:

Very Nice,          maybe some day I will see my local waters (On your site)    like Hat creek or the Pit River.

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Question:

I am looking for good links to what YOU consider to be the best internet shopping sites for fishing equipment, in particular fly fishing equipment. I have used Cabela’s myself, and found many good deals there. Thanks for your help! Eivind

Response:

Try Bass Pro Shops www.basspro.com

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Question:

I just moved to Los Angeles and I’m desperately looking for some rivers to fish on the weekends. If anyone could suggest some rivers to check out, I would greatly appreciate any help. Thank you, Brian

Check out Sespe Creek behind Ventura.  Fishermen’s Spot in Van Nuys can direct you.  Surf fishing for perch ani’t to bad either…

Response:

I just moved to Los Angeles and I’m desperately looking for some rivers to fish on the weekends. If anyone could suggest some rivers to check out, I would greatly appreciate any help. Thank you, Brian

  You might try looking at the downey fly fishers page http://www.pacificnet.net/~jas/dff.htm they have monthly trips and fish reports that can be helpful john aydelotte

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just moved to Los Angeles and I’m desperately looking for some rivers to fish on the weekends. If anyone could suggest some rivers to check out, I would greatly appreciate any help. Thank you, Brian   You might try looking at the downey fly fishers page http://www.pacificnet.net/~jas/dff.htm they have monthly trips and fish reports that can be helpful john aydelotte

There are atleast six trout streams that are less than a two hour drive from downtown LA, that have sections where wild trout are protected by special regulations. Regulations vary, but typically include, artifical lures, barbless hooks, and 2 to 0 take limits, on the protected portions of the streams.  The fish are typically not very large but suprisingly, abundant, and do take flies. There are also many lesser known spots without special regulations hidden away in the mountains arround LA. The protected streams I am refering to are: Bear Creek, Deep Creek, Piru Creek, San Antonio Creek, Sespe Creek, and the West Fork of the San Gabriel River. These are typically, small streams with alot of tree cover. But each one offers more fishing that you can cover in a day. Unlike the streams in the sierras, these streams are open to fishing year round. There are FFF clubs all arround the LA area, you might want to check out the one in your area. — David V. Green WWW.GreenFly Culver City,  CA

Response:

I just moved to Los Angeles and I’m desperately looking for some rivers to fish on the weekends. If anyone could suggest some rivers to check out, I would greatly appreciate any help. Thank you, Brian

Response:

Question:

I’ll be in Georgia for 6 days (visiting in-laws…) and would love an excuse to get out for a spell. They live near Columbus, but I generally fish only in Eastern Sierra (Northern California). Any suggestions? A good fly shop to call? Thanks! — Fish more, Fret less…

Response:

I’ll be in Georgia for 6 days (visiting in-laws…)

In that part of Georgia you’ll only find warmwater fishing. Callway Gardens at Pine Mountain offers some great float tube fishing for large bream and bass. If you can get up to Atlanta, we have the Hooch; and if you have time to get into the mountains, there are too many opportunities to list here. Let me know more about your plans — maybe I can be of more assistance. — Visit Dave Teffeteller’s Fly Fishing Guides Home Page http://www.olfart.com

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Question:

Hi, I hit the "D" key instead of the "S" key by mistake so lost the e-mail address and name of the guy I was talking with about flyfishing Puget Sound. I was just wondering how things went for you.  Did you try the area near Shilshole?  Catch anything?  What type and how big?  See any Salmon or Steelhead?  What flys did you use?  Try any shiney streamers? Another spot was across the sound near the Straights of Juan De Fuca, off some of the jettys and sand bars out there.  Makes a nice weekend trip when the salmon are running.  Nothing like double-hauling a 9wt line on a two-handed rod in a stiff breeze casting a 6" streamer.  I can taste the salt on my face just thinking about it.

Response:

" Nothing like double-hauling a 9wt line on a two-handed rod" says

Exactly how does one double haul with a two handed rod?  Have the ghilly do the hauling?                                 Mike in PDX                "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                                            Tom McGuane

Response:

Question:

I’m seriously considering purchasing a Water Otter for use on various Montana and Wyoming waters.  They interest me because I want a craft that is suitable for both still and moving water, although I am not foolish enough (yet) to try something like this on whitewater.  I would love to hear from anyone that has had experience with these craft. Specifically, what are their limitations and are you satisfied with your purchase?   Would you buy one again if you had to do it all over again?   Recommendations on other models are also welcome. – –

Response:

Dale , I too am intrested in water otters. However last year I built a kick boat that has really opened new horizons for me.I usually fish the Yakima which is very similar in size to the Blackfoot. My kick boat is made to fit in my Grand Cherokee. Has an aluminum frame with rowing risers and floats of laminated coated styrofoam. it cost a hundred or so and has generated requests for plans whererer I go.  It can go through about 4" of water and has gone through some swift- but not rapids- water. Some day i’ll write up my plans. Herb

Response:

: Dale , : I too am intrested in water otters. However last year I built a kick boat : that has really opened new horizons for me.I usually fish the Yakima which : is very similar in size to the Blackfoot. My kick boat is made to fit in : my Grand Cherokee. Has an aluminum frame with rowing risers and floats of : laminated coated styrofoam. it cost a hundred or so and has generated : requests for plans whererer I go.  It can go through about 4" of water and : has gone through some swift- but not rapids- water. Some day i’ll write up : my plans. : Herb I too built a kickboat (the WaterSkater, plans available in most fly fishing mags) And I love it.  No problems with inflation, it is stable as sitting on the floor, and Herb’s comment about getting requests for information every time he brings it out sure sound familiar!  If you don’t need the inflatable aspect, the foam kickboat is a real option.  I think the water skater guys now make a finished one if you don’t want to build your own.

Response: