Question:

At $6000 for a pair, you are paying a lot up front, I think. I think I am going to self insure them. — Ron White Check out HAMMER the 30′ sportfisherman I am building http://www.concentric.net/~knotreel/

Response:

Bare in mind, "Extended Warranties" are the biggest scam going.  That’s just not my opinion, ask anyone who sell’s cars. It seems you always hear about the (1) guy who was really glad he bought the "Extended Warranty", what you don’t hear is the (100) others who paid a lot of money for nothing. Extended Warranties are like any other insurance and the odds are always greatly in favor of the insurer …not the insured.  Think about it ….if Extended Warranty programs weren’t such a juicy pie, why do you find everyone and their grandmother trying to sell them. Your best warranty is to know what the hell your buying in the first place and don’t buy junk! Dennis, WI

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – At $6000 for a pair, you are paying a lot up front, I think. I think I am going to self insure them. — Ron White Check out HAMMER the 30′ sportfisherman I am building http://www.concentric.net/~knotreel/

Response:

Ron, IMHO, buy the best and most comprehensive plan you can.  These motors today are very unreliable and you will be in the shop for repairs worth thousands of dollars every year. I was at my mechanics the other day.  A tourney fisherman was going to miss out on a tournament because parts for his 2000 225 Optimax wouldn’t be available until sometime in October.  Seems the demand for parts is outstripping supply. Just my observations.

Response:

I had decided to for go the Mercury extended warranty due to a $6000 cost to cover both of my 2000 225HP Optimaxs. My dealer offers an alternate plan thru Pinnacle for about half that of Mercury’s. Does anybody have any experience with Pinnacle extended warranty plans for big outboards? — Ron White Check out HAMMER the 30′ sportfisherman I am building http://www.concentric.net/~knotreel/

Response:

Ron, I don’t have knowlege about the coverage PINNACLE offers, but the extended warranty I got from Mercury covers ALL internally lubricated parts, both engine and outdrive (O.K. I have the 4.3L I/O, different coverage for the outboards I guess).  Seemed a good deal to me for the money..about $800 for 2 more years. Mike

Response:

  Ron, you might want to check with your dealer about that extended warranty.  When we bought our boat this past spring the dealer told us about a program(?) that Mercury was/is running.  It may have something to do with the volume of business our dealer does with Merc.  The dealer was given about $9k of Mercury’s money that he could use anyway he wanted.  Now, we bought the boat in Canada (we live in the U.S.), so it may not apply in your situation.  Anyway, our dealer offered to extend the warranty to five years for both motors and outdrives (hell, anything on the boat from Mercury) for $500 U.S.  Needless to say we wrote the check on the spot!  Normally I have no use for extended warranties, but this was too good a deal to pass up. Never hurts to inquire. Good luck. Keith McGregor 2000 Doral 300SE – Sweet E

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I had decided to for go the Mercury extended warranty due to a $6000 cost to cover both of my 2000 225HP Optimaxs. My dealer offers an alternate plan thru Pinnacle for about half that of Mercury’s. Does anybody have any experience with Pinnacle extended warranty plans for big outboards? — Ron White Check out HAMMER the 30′ sportfisherman I am building http://www.concentric.net/~knotreel/

Response:

=it is, that issue is not your concern.  Your concern is simply to ask what =will the outlay of $787.50 do for you.  It matters not to you that ten =different boaters will tell you they’ve never had a breakdown.  What matters =is the consequences to you if you do.  I’ve heard the argument that the And this is key.  For instance, on my first boat, corrosion damage wasn’t covered.  So, when the starter rusted from the inside out, I had to pay for it.  Now, I bought from a decent dealer, so they didn’t charge labor, and I paid for a new starter.  Good deal, considering how hard it was to remove.  It was difficult because the bolts holding the starter on rusted and broke.  I think they had to do lots of drilling (4.3L OMC Cobra). So, if 2.5 years from now, the riser rusts through and fills the engine with water and destroys it, do you have coverage?  I’m not saying you don’t, but that you should check.  Corrosion damage on a boat engine means much more than some rust on the outside of the engine.  What happens if you wrap a fishing line around the prop shaft, cut the outdrive seals, get water in the drive and damage the gears?  This is the kind of stuff that damages equipment.  And, of course, what if you hit something.  But, damage to your boat caused by hitting something is often covered under your insurance. Also, make sure you know who is providing the coverage.  Is it a fly by night company?  Or Merc itself?  Or a quality dealer? How new is the design of the equipment?  5.0L motors and Alpha I drives have been around a long time.  Ficht (sp?) and Optimax are much newer and probably have design flaws. Mike

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It is hard to believe but my first year of boating is almost over. Wow that was fast. Mercury says I bought the boat on Oct. 28 and they are offering an extended warranty. The details are: 2 Year    $472.50 3 Year    $640.50 4 year    $787.50 I have a 5.0 Mercruiser. My question is, should I even consider this? It seems that extended warranties are just an incredible revenue generator for the companies but with being new to this maybe this is warranted. I use the boat maybe two or three times a week at most. I think I have put about 35-40 hours on the boat this summer. Thanks in advance for any advise you have. Ron Ron, here’s some food for thought about your warranty decision.  First, lets discuss the reasons you’ve heard why you shouldn’t buy it:  The most common reason is that the product is too profitable for the company who offers the warranty and/or the dealer who sells it to you.  Of course it is a profitable product.  Would you expect them to offer anything less?  Your boat was a profitable product when it was sold to you as well.  Maybe it is even an outrageously profitable product.  No matter how obscenely profitable it is, that issue is not your concern.  Your concern is simply to ask what will the outlay of $787.50 do for you.  It matters not to you that ten different boaters will tell you they’ve never had a breakdown.  What matters is the consequences to you if you do.  I’ve heard the argument that the warranty will limit its payout to the cost of replacing the engine/outdrive. I don’t really know the exact cost, I but feel very certain that the cost of replacing your drivetrain would be well in excess of $10,000.  If that’s the best the product did, with a base cost of $787.50, I’d say you should do so well with your other investments.  A major engine or drive failure can easily run $5-6k.  It takes almost nothing to go wrong that wouldn’t cost you more than $787.50.  We are talking boat repair prices here. My recommendation is to focus on your feelings on this one.  Ignore what the $787.50 does for Mercury’s bottom line.  Be concerned with your bottom line. What you are buying with the warranty is called a stop-loss.  Simply put, it means that for the next four years, it can’t get any worse than $787.50.  It really is just that simple.  It is the only issue you need to focus on.  Do you like having that net underneath you?  Or do you enjoy the thrill of life without one?  How well do you sleep?  Base your decision with that in mind. There is no way to quantify the chances of you recouping your cost back. Two other thoughts to consider:  If you buy the warranty, and you should decide to sell the boat during the warranty period, you have also bought a stop loss for the potential buyer of your boat.  If you’ve never bought or sold in the used market, you have no idea how powerful an asset that warranty can be as a sales incentive.  There is no reason to think that the remaining term on the warranty wouldn’t be worth the full $787.50 to a buyer who doesn’t know you from Adam and doesn’t know the history of the boat.  It puts you a leg up on the competition.  Even if you like living without a net, your buyer might not, especially with a used boat.  Also, consider that you are buying your coverage directly from Mercury, not an after market company.  That means that any Mercury authorized warranty facility will honor that warranty without hesitation.  For $787.50, I think its a steal. Russ Of course, all this assumes the company, whatever company (insurance or manufacturer), doesn’t fight actually HONORING this extended warranty.  We can always refuse to fix it and call it "water ingestion" or some other hole in the contract big enough to drive a Feadship through…… If you’re going to buy a contract, take the contract HOME and READ IT CAREFULLY.  Mark out all the huge holes with a magic marker, you know, where it says they don’t HAVE to fix it if they don’t want to.  Take the modified contract back to the dealer and get him, as representative of the company, to initial all the contractual changes. If he says he can’t, mail the contract back to the company and ask THEM to initial the contractual changes.  This way, you’ll at least get a contract that will actually force them to fix the boat, without you having to kiss their corporate asses and be a buddy-buddy with the dealer. READ THE CONTRACT, very carefully.  Look at all the "outs" their lawyers have written into it.  It can happen to you…it has me. Larry….Yamaha Y.E.S. contract.  Not worth the paper it’s printed on in ‘97.  They had no intention of ever honoring it.

You should follow your own advice, Larry. Next time you buy a home computer, read the specs. That way, you won’t have to moan about how you were–once again–screwed. — Harry Krause – - – - – - – - – - – - Hey!  You can’t commit suicide with Ex-Lax!

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It is hard to believe but my first year of boating is almost over. Wow that was fast. Mercury says I bought the boat on Oct. 28 and they are offering an extended warranty. The details are: 2 Year    $472.50 3 Year    $640.50 4 year    $787.50 I have a 5.0 Mercruiser. My question is, should I even consider this? It seems that extended warranties are just an incredible revenue generator for the companies but with being new to this maybe this is warranted. I use the boat maybe two or three times a week at most. I think I have put about 35-40 hours on the boat this summer. Thanks in advance for any advise you have. Ron Ron, here’s some food for thought about your warranty decision.  First, lets discuss the reasons you’ve heard why you shouldn’t buy it:  The most common reason is that the product is too profitable for the company who offers the warranty and/or the dealer who sells it to you.  Of course it is a profitable product.  Would you expect them to offer anything less?  Your boat was a profitable product when it was sold to you as well.  Maybe it is even an outrageously profitable product.  No matter how obscenely profitable it is, that issue is not your concern.  Your concern is simply to ask what will the outlay of $787.50 do for you.  It matters not to you that ten different boaters will tell you they’ve never had a breakdown.  What matters is the consequences to you if you do.  I’ve heard the argument that the warranty will limit its payout to the cost of replacing the engine/outdrive. I don’t really know the exact cost, I but feel very certain that the cost of replacing your drivetrain would be well in excess of $10,000.  If that’s the best the product did, with a base cost of $787.50, I’d say you should do so well with your other investments.  A major engine or drive failure can easily run $5-6k.  It takes almost nothing to go wrong that wouldn’t cost you more than $787.50.  We are talking boat repair prices here. My recommendation is to focus on your feelings on this one.  Ignore what the $787.50 does for Mercury’s bottom line.  Be concerned with your bottom line. What you are buying with the warranty is called a stop-loss.  Simply put, it means that for the next four years, it can’t get any worse than $787.50.  It really is just that simple.  It is the only issue you need to focus on.  Do you like having that net underneath you?  Or do you enjoy the thrill of life without one?  How well do you sleep?  Base your decision with that in mind. There is no way to quantify the chances of you recouping your cost back. Two other thoughts to consider:  If you buy the warranty, and you should decide to sell the boat during the warranty period, you have also bought a stop loss for the potential buyer of your boat.  If you’ve never bought or sold in the used market, you have no idea how powerful an asset that warranty can be as a sales incentive.  There is no reason to think that the remaining term on the warranty wouldn’t be worth the full $787.50 to a buyer who doesn’t know you from Adam and doesn’t know the history of the boat.  It puts you a leg up on the competition.  Even if you like living without a net, your buyer might not, especially with a used boat.  Also, consider that you are buying your coverage directly from Mercury, not an after market company.  That means that any Mercury authorized warranty facility will honor that warranty without hesitation.  For $787.50, I think its a steal. Russ

Of course, all this assumes the company, whatever company (insurance or manufacturer), doesn’t fight actually HONORING this extended warranty.  We can always refuse to fix it and call it "water ingestion" or some other hole in the contract big enough to drive a Feadship through…… If you’re going to buy a contract, take the contract HOME and READ IT CAREFULLY.  Mark out all the huge holes with a magic marker, you know, where it says they don’t HAVE to fix it if they don’t want to.  Take the modified contract back to the dealer and get him, as representative of the company, to initial all the contractual changes. If he says he can’t, mail the contract back to the company and ask THEM to initial the contractual changes.  This way, you’ll at least get a contract that will actually force them to fix the boat, without you having to kiss their corporate asses and be a buddy-buddy with the dealer. READ THE CONTRACT, very carefully.  Look at all the "outs" their lawyers have written into it.  It can happen to you…it has me. Larry….Yamaha Y.E.S. contract.  Not worth the paper it’s printed on in ‘97.  They had no intention of ever honoring it.

Response:

It is hard to believe but my first year of boating is almost over. Wow that was fast. Mercury says I bought the boat on Oct. 28 and they are offering an extended warranty. The details are: 2 Year    $472.50 3 Year    $640.50 4 year    $787.50 I have a 5.0 Mercruiser. My question is, should I even consider this? It seems that extended warranties are just an incredible revenue generator for the companies but with being new to this maybe this is warranted. I use the boat maybe two or three times a week at most. I think I have put about 35-40 hours on the boat this summer. Thanks in advance for any advise you have. Ron Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

My two cents worth. I believe it is worth it. I am getting it for my Merc 250hp outboard. $1900 for 3 years. Cheap when you think of shop hour charges and parts. Ask your dealer about his past worst case of how many hours to fix a nasty problem. Good Luck

Response:

I have been boating for 13 years and I am on my 3rd vessel and all of them have had Mercruiser engines and outdrives and I have never ever had a problem that needed repairs either under warranty or outside of the warranty period. I have twin Mercs now on my new Maxum and declined the extended warranty…it is a revenue grabber..but I have peace of mind knowing my vessel has Mercs…I’ll not use anything else. Nshore – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It is hard to believe but my first year of boating is almost over. Wow that was fast. Mercury says I bought the boat on Oct. 28 and they are offering an extended warranty. The details are: 2 Year    $472.50 3 Year    $640.50 4 year    $787.50 I have a 5.0 Mercruiser. My question is, should I even consider this? It seems that extended warranties are just an incredible revenue generator for the companies but with being new to this maybe this is warranted. I use the boat maybe two or three times a week at most. I think I have put about 35-40 hours on the boat this summer. Thanks in advance for any advise you have. Ron Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

I have a 1994 5.7 EFI by Volvo.  The extended warranty was approx. $1,500, $750 of that being a sales commission to the dealer.  I did not buy the warranty and have never had any warranty or non warranty work done on the engine.  All I did was scheduled maintenance which is not covered. Most of the "insurance" policies limited the total coverage or payout during the policy period to the total replacement cost of the engine, so if you have a real lemon of an engine, they will only repair it till your total claims reach the replacement costs of the engine.  It is a very very profitable insurance policy for the dealer and warranty company. — Jim 1994 Regal 256 for sale – see ad at http://www.classifieds2000.com/cgi-cls/ad.exe?P61+C189+A0+R1127049+Q2… 4 To see pictures of the boat’s layout visit: http://www.regalboats.com/htm/boats_commodore_258.shtml

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been boating for 13 years and I am on my 3rd vessel and all of them have had Mercruiser engines and outdrives and I have never ever had a problem that needed repairs either under warranty or outside of the warranty period. I have twin Mercs now on my new Maxum and declined the extended warranty…it is a revenue grabber..but I have peace of mind knowing my vessel has Mercs…I’ll not use anything else. Nshore It is hard to believe but my first year of boating is almost over. Wow that was fast. Mercury says I bought the boat on Oct. 28 and they are offering an extended warranty. The details are: 2 Year    $472.50 3 Year    $640.50 4 year    $787.50 I have a 5.0 Mercruiser. My question is, should I even consider this? It seems that extended warranties are just an incredible revenue generator for the companies but with being new to this maybe this is warranted. I use the boat maybe two or three times a week at most. I think I have put about 35-40 hours on the boat this summer. Thanks in advance for any advise you have. Ron Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Ron: My "new" boat is in its second season, and I just signed up for a 5 year comprehensive coverage, including the 5.7 L Mer-Cruiser and all components on the boat (Sea Ray). This is far from cheap, representing about 2% of the entire cost of the new boat, but for peace of mind, and a comfortable feeling about Sea Ray response to date, I decided to go for it. My decision is also partly based on my lack of strong mechanical skills. Marty in NJ

Response:

Ron: My "new" boat is in its second season, and I just signed up for a 5 year comprehensive coverage, including the 5.7 L Mer-Cruiser and all components on the boat (Sea Ray). This is far from cheap, representing about 2% of the entire cost of the new boat, but for peace of mind, and a comfortable feeling about Sea Ray response to date, I decided to go for it. My decision is also partly based on my lack of strong mechanical skills. Marty in NJ

It’s all a gamble, of course, but, if *one* serious thing goes wrong with your engine when the standard warranty expires, your extended warranty will pay for itself. It’s also a good thing to have at trade or selling time. In NE Florida, it is damned hard to sell a rig if the engine doesn’t have at least a year or two left on extended warranty. — Harry Krause – - – - – - – - – - – - Democracy can withstand anything but democrats.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It is hard to believe but my first year of boating is almost over. Wow that was fast. Mercury says I bought the boat on Oct. 28 and they are offering an extended warranty. The details are: 2 Year    $472.50 3 Year    $640.50 4 year    $787.50 I have a 5.0 Mercruiser. My question is, should I even consider this? It seems that extended warranties are just an incredible revenue generator for the companies but with being new to this maybe this is warranted. I use the boat maybe two or three times a week at most. I think I have put about 35-40 hours on the boat this summer. Thanks in advance for any advise you have. Ron

Ron, here’s some food for thought about your warranty decision.  First, lets discuss the reasons you’ve heard why you shouldn’t buy it:  The most common reason is that the product is too profitable for the company who offers the warranty and/or the dealer who sells it to you.  Of course it is a profitable product.  Would you expect them to offer anything less?  Your boat was a profitable product when it was sold to you as well.  Maybe it is even an outrageously profitable product.  No matter how obscenely profitable it is, that issue is not your concern.  Your concern is simply to ask what will the outlay of $787.50 do for you.  It matters not to you that ten different boaters will tell you they’ve never had a breakdown.  What matters is the consequences to you if you do.  I’ve heard the argument that the warranty will limit its payout to the cost of replacing the engine/outdrive. I don’t really know the exact cost, I but feel very certain that the cost of replacing your drivetrain would be well in excess of $10,000.  If that’s the best the product did, with a base cost of $787.50, I’d say you should do so well with your other investments.  A major engine or drive failure can easily run $5-6k.  It takes almost nothing to go wrong that wouldn’t cost you more than $787.50.  We are talking boat repair prices here. My recommendation is to focus on your feelings on this one.  Ignore what the $787.50 does for Mercury’s bottom line.  Be concerned with your bottom line. What you are buying with the warranty is called a stop-loss.  Simply put, it means that for the next four years, it can’t get any worse than $787.50.  It really is just that simple.  It is the only issue you need to focus on.  Do you like having that net underneath you?  Or do you enjoy the thrill of life without one?  How well do you sleep?  Base your decision with that in mind. There is no way to quantify the chances of you recouping your cost back. Two other thoughts to consider:  If you buy the warranty, and you should decide to sell the boat during the warranty period, you have also bought a stop loss for the potential buyer of your boat.  If you’ve never bought or sold in the used market, you have no idea how powerful an asset that warranty can be as a sales incentive.  There is no reason to think that the remaining term on the warranty wouldn’t be worth the full $787.50 to a buyer who doesn’t know you from Adam and doesn’t know the history of the boat.  It puts you a leg up on the competition.  Even if you like living without a net, your buyer might not, especially with a used boat.  Also, consider that you are buying your coverage directly from Mercury, not an after market company.  That means that any Mercury authorized warranty facility will honor that warranty without hesitation.  For $787.50, I think its a steal. Russ

Response:

Simple question, Ron…… Can you afford to fix it if it breaks? If Yes, to hell with warranties.  If they thought it was going to break expensively, they sure as hell wouldn’t let you off the hook for a few hundred bucks, would they.  Take you chances. If No, you’re strapped for cash and couldn’t afford a $2000 repair bill if it lunches….Insurance isn’t so bad, even IF they are making a killing selling it, which they ARE! You decide….. I buy very little insurance unless I think there is a disaster in the making….like house insurance, boat insurance, etc….that would wipe me out.  Breaking a V-8 and paying off the Mastercard I used to pay for it is MUCH cheaper than paying thousands for bogus insurance you’re going to have to fight with insurance bureaucrats to get them to pay.  NOONE ever refuses my MasterCard!! Larry….I’l fix it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -It is hard to believe but my first year of boating is almost over. Wow that was fast. Mercury says I bought the boat on Oct. 28 and they are offering an extended warranty. The details are: 2 Year    $472.50 3 Year    $640.50 4 year    $787.50 I have a 5.0 Mercruiser. My question is, should I even consider this? It seems that extended warranties are just an incredible revenue generator for the companies but with being new to this maybe this is warranted. I use the boat maybe two or three times a week at most. I think I have put about 35-40 hours on the boat this summer. Thanks in advance for any advise you have. Ron Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Question:

Chapter IX

Question:

I am thinking of a weeks fishing in the Fernie area some time between July 15 and August 15.  In terms of dry fly fishing, what is the best time to go? What bugs?  Will snow pack be an issue in terms of timing? JK

Response:

From my limited experience (one trip), the  later in your time period, the better for dry fly fishing. Plat

Response:

your timing looks good for a steady diet of dryfly action. patterns to bring:

gr drakes #12,14. stimulators orange, yellow large. rubber leg stones. hoppers later in Aug. if you require guide service click to www.bcangling.com best rates garaunteed. if you come in July, there are some trophy Rainbow lakes not too far away and the sedge hatch may still be happening. tls, pk.

Response:

Question:

And don’t be ashamed to dunk a worm for catfish.

I was a fairly successful bass fishermen in my youth, but once I returned in my adult years I have not done well, even with the same tackle and same locations, well, I can understand that. I figured if I wasn’t going to catch fish, I might as well do it with style (flyfishing).  I know this sounds sarcastic, but there’s truth in it. I *do* need to get a better start this time, and would like guidance and lessons, in my area, which is San Jose – the Santa Cruz moutain area not far from me…. I remember as a kid with my dad fishing for and watching steelhead in the San Lorenzo river in Boulder creek, in the tropical parts of the mountains. They would circle in and out of the dark pools.  This was before the great drought in the 80’s which did in much of the salmon and trout in that area. My desire to fish has much to do with where I fish as it does just catching fish.   Hope this makes sense.  And I would love to fish for blue gill if I knew somewhere good. Greg

Response:

RP138 wrote … … It sounds like you should go out with a guide  - several times to learn what works.  This way you will catch fish and remain interested in a really great sport.  A few $ spent on lessons always makes a real difference.    Bob.

If you intend to fly fish, starting with a guide is the best advice I know of.  This can be expensive (250-300 $ a day) but a good guide is worth it. There is a fly fishing school in Northern California called Clearwater House (they have a web site).  This is where I got jump started into fly fishing and I highly recommend it (or others like it, if you can find them). Another key factor in fishing, any type of fishing, is having a fishing buddy.  Even though you’ll see solitary fishers, you will find that the social aspect of fishing is an important factor for most fishers.  This NG is proof of that.  A good place to meet potential fishing partners is at a fishing club.  Most localities have fishing clubs for every type of fishing; bass clubs, fly fishing clubs, deep sea clubs…you name it and generally they welcome newcomers.  There’s a few curmudgeonly types on ROFF who will poo-poo this advice because it’s not for them.  Just ignore them. Find some other’s who enjoy what you want to try and join them.  That’s the surest way to start yourself off on a pastime that will reward you for a life time.

Response:

Another key factor in fishing, any type of fishing, is having a fishing buddy.  Even though you’ll see solitary fishers, you will find that the social aspect of fishing is an important factor for most fishers.

So right.  Makes all the difference.  But it’s not like golf – can’t explain it, but that’s the case .There’s a few curmudgeonly types on ROFF who will poo-poo this advice because it’s not for them.  Just ignore them.

That’s true too. But I’ll bet those cumudgeonly types started fishing with somebody, and graduated to the solitary fisherman.  I enjoy fishing alone, but there’s nothing better than the cold beer with your fishing buddy at the end of the day. Mark Faulkner

Response:

(snipped) << There’s a few curmudgeonly types on ROFF who will poo-poo this advice because it’s not for them.  Just ignore them. Find some other’s who enjoy what you want to try and join them.  That’s the surest way to start yourself off on a pastime that will reward you for a life time. I beg your pardon, David.  I am a curmedgeon and I think you have given the best advice possible!  Nothing learns a man quicker than catchin’ a fish, and many times, a guide is the only way.  I applaud your advice, sir.  The advice about finding a fishing partner is especially good — I am willing and able if you live in Mass. Dave "the biggest curmedgeon around" LaCourse

Response:

<<That’s true too. But I’ll bet those cumudgeonly types started fishing with somebody, and graduated to the solitary fisherman.  I enjoy fishing alone, but there’s nothing better than the cold beer with your fishing buddy at the end of the day. This is true.  I will steal two Sleeman’s from Peter Charles and share with you at the ‘clave.  But *only* if I catch more fish than you! Dave LaCourse

Response:

Dave "the biggest curmedgeon around" LaCourse

Using George’s spell checker again Dave<g? (Maybe a curmudgeon contest at the clave?) — Charlie…

Response:

Dave "the biggest curmedgeon around" LaCourse

Using George’s spell checker again Dave<g? (Maybe a curmudgeon contest at the clave?) — LOL.  Ya got me, Charlie.  And you are on….. Dave

Response:

Dave "the biggest curmedgeon around" LaCourse Using George’s spell checker again Dave<g? (Maybe a curmudgeon contest at the clave?) — LOL.  Ya got me, Charlie.  And you are on…..

Rocking chairs at 2 paces it is<g! — Charlie…

Response:

Every 4 to 5 years I get interested in fishing, again…. Usually I go out, fish like mad for a few months, and then after not catching a damn thing, give it up for the next 4 to 5 years. I tried flyfishing last go-around, but didn’t get far. Can anyone recommend a good rod/reel/line/leader/fly set-up for fishing the streams around Boulder creek, CA, or even Guadalupe river in San Jose (yes, I’ve heard there’s fish). Any help would be appreciated, I definately would like to keep it as simple as possible. Greg

Response:

A nice 81/2′ to 9′ 4wt with a cheap reel and a good floating weight forward line should do the trick.  It sounds like you should go out with a guide  - several times to learn what works.  This way you will catch fish and remain interested in a really great sport.  A few $ spent on lessons always makes a real difference.    Bob.

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<<A nice 81/2′ to 9′ 4wt with a cheap reel and a good floating weight forward line should do the trick.  It sounds like you should go out with a guide  - several times to learn what works.  This way you will catch fish and remain interested in a really great sport.  A few $ spent on lessons always makes a real difference.    Bob. Hi, Bob. You know, I have seen lots of advice given on these pages to newbies, but your’s (above) makes a helluva lot of sense, especially the "guide" part.  There is nothing more convincing to a newbie than catching fish, and if they know little about the art, the best way is with a guide.   Dave LaCourse

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : Every 4 to 5 years I get interested in fishing, again…. : : Usually I go out, fish like mad for a few months, and then : after not catching a damn thing, give it up for the next 4 to 5 : years. Greg, This may sound snide or something…but I mean it in all honesty. Unless you change your approach, your mentality towards it, you will not be a fisherman. You will give up each time. Fishing cannot be aquired in a few months. It is not a recreation you will conquer in a short time by throwing yourself at it. Sure, you can learn some basic skills, like flycasting, by hours of backyard practice. But where to cast? What to cast? When to cast?  All these questions will only begin to be answered by spending time, much time, on the water. By watching, waiting, and making many, many mistakes. It is a lifetime of learning, of which we all just scratch the surface. It is about figuring out how the natural world is working on that day, in that hour, that you are there, so that you can mimic it, or agitate it, or attract it, in such a way as to make a fish strike. If you perservere, the rewards are great. And, you can make it easier at the start by going after fish that are generally easy to catch, like panfish. Your local shop can tell you what and where you might find easier fishing. And don’t be ashamed to dunk a worm for catfish. JonCook.

What Jon said nails it also. I went fishing at Jordanelle Res. yesterday, float tubed while the ole lady tried her kickboat. 4 hours in the water-didn’t catch a damn thing froze my ass and feet off. Didn’t even get a hit. Same with my wife. But it didn’t matter. We were out there, having fun(?) It’s a state of mind. I fish because it’s relaxing, catching them is an added bonus. Plus it keeps me out of trouble. Plus it’s good distance casting practice. We did help some  first time, "We just got the boat and the salesman said it was all ready to go" boaters. No one bothered to tell them what the little hole below the outdrive was for and why there was no plug in it. After he saw he was taking on water, he decided to ask for some timely advice. The engine wouldn’t stay running, but his bilge pump worked great. My wife had her chest waders still on and walked out to help them get a little closer to shore where we could load it on the trailer. (there was no dock because this is a PWC launch ramp). Got the boat loaded, couldn’t find any plug, and told him it would be a good idea to also unplug his lights from the trailer before launching. Didn’t catch a fish  yesterday, but still had a hellava good time. done that

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Question:

An associate and I are looking for information, books, history, plans, etc. on a wooden, flat bottom, skiff-like drift boat, used for fly fishing.  This craft is used extensively on the Manistee, and AuSable rivers of Michigan. It’s been called the AuSable riverboat.  Any leads would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks in advance. Damian M. Taulbee On A Fly, L.L.C.

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An associate and I are looking for information, books, history, plans, etc. on a wooden, flat bottom, skiff-like drift boat, used for fly fishing. This craft is used extensively on the Manistee, and AuSable rivers of Michigan. It’s been called the AuSable riverboat.  Any leads would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks in advance.

livery. He has a guide working for him named Roger who builds a beautiful AuSable boat also. Wayne Knight Geneva IL                            

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Question:

I will be fishing the upper Elk soon (near Slaty Fork).  Any advice on fly selection, water conditions etc?  Thanks in advance

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Hey Again! You sure are persistent in putting posts about WV Flyfishing on this newsgroup!  If I didn’t know better, I’d think you were a plant ffor my guide business as you and I seem to be the only ones regularly discussing WV flyfishing.  As for what is going on, wait until a few days or even the day before you leave and send me an e-mail.  If I don’t reply within 24 hours, chances are that I’m somewhere inthe backcountry and without access.  Call and leave a message at our 800 number and ask for a call back about conditions on the Slaty.  Oak fields these calls and is usually pretty good about getting back quickly.  I hope you catch them all as long as you put ‘em back!!! See you Streamside, Keith Comstock Cranberry Wilderness Outfitters phone: (800) 848-8398 web: http://www.wvoutfitters.com PS- I’m thinking about putting up a conditions page and trying to update in no less than once a week.  What do you think?

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Question:

As I was planning yet another stitched gife for my MIL, I realized I had never made anything for my FIL. Granted, DH didn’t have much to do with him for the first several years of our marriage (MIL & FIL had been divorced in the 70s) but everything is friendly now & MIL & FIL are married again (yes, to each other).  DH suggested stitching something on a fishing hat.  Has anyone tried this?  If so, what did you stitch?  He loves cat fish & is a lake/boat fisherman (as opposed to a stream/fly fisherman). Any ideas??? Liz

Checked my index for sports-fishing and found      Omnibook of Quickies-has a catfish, and other fishy things,             including hat!      Cross Stitcher Mag, June 96 and Aug 96- fishing motifs Also, I have seen hats & visors with a cross-stitch insert at Michael’s and elsewhere. Good luck! Kathy Hoover

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DH suggested stitching something on a fishing hat.  Has anyone tried this?  If so, what did you stitch?  He loves cat fish & is a lake/boat fisherman (as opposed to a stream/fly fisherman). Any ideas??? Liz well….i saw a t-shirt that said "women want me…fish fear me…" lol cari

Cute idea.:-))  The mental picture I get when I connect it with my FIL is funnier than the original T shirt could ever be. ))))) Liz

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As I was planning yet another stitched gife for my MIL, I realized I had never made anything for my FIL. Granted, DH didn’t have much to do with him for the first several years of our marriage (MIL & FIL had been divorced in the 70s) but everything is friendly now & MIL & FIL are married again (yes, to each other).  DH suggested stitching something on a fishing hat.  Has anyone tried this?  If so, what did you stitch?  He loves cat fish & is a lake/boat fisherman (as opposed to a stream/fly fisherman). Any ideas??? Liz

They make ballcaps with an aida panel already in it.  I’ve never tried stitching on a  hat myself so I don’t know how hard it would be. There are lots of fish patterns in magazines and catalogs, but most I’ve seen are a typical trout jumping, or lures or something.  I do remember one in a mag several years back with different lake fish in it.  I have no idea which mag or issue but I’ll look through mine and see if I can find it.  You could also design something yourself, along th lines of "world’s greatest fisherman" etc. Karen

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Question:

I’m interested in knowing who besides a tarpon fisherman has use for a fly leaderstretcher.  Please e-mail me direct with any input. thanks. mark. Mark Gervase

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Anyone who wants to pretie a fly to a shock tippet. Shock tippets are generally used to catch fish that have a tendancy to cut through a normal leader because of their behavior, sharp gill rackers, or teeth. The leader stretcher lets you pretie the flies to your shock tippet and keep your shock straight. A coily shock won’t do. Also, because of their bulk, leader stretchers are typically used by anglers fishing from a boat or where they don’t have to do a lot of wading/walking. I have developed my own easy-to-make, inexpensive stretchers for tarpon, snook, pike, muskies, and sometimes (without shocks) even for chinooks and cohos. Bob Elliott

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I’m interested in knowing who besides a tarpon fisherman has use for a fly leaderstretcher.  Please e-mail me direct with any input. thanks. mark. Mark Gervase

I fish for trout here in Oregon and regularly use a stretcher when needed.  I use a piece of rubber tubing cut from an old inner tube. works fine.  Another old trick is to rub toothpaste on the leader to sink it.  Works great too.  Neither of which costs hardly anything.

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I fish for trout here in Oregon and regularly use a stretcher when needed.  I use a piece of rubber tubing cut from an old inner tube. works fine.  <snip

Nolan, I would caution you about this technique for stretching leaders as it can damage the leader.  When you draw a piece of mono through the rubber pieces it generates a good deal of heat.  This heat is, supposedly, sufficient to weaken the leader.  I don’t have any emperical evidence of this but I have experienced the heating when using rubber to stretch leaders. I play it safe by simply grasping the leader in arm length sections and stretch it with a steady, firm pull for a few seconds.  This does a reasonable job but will not complete take the curl out of the butt section.  However, I find that even in the cold conditions of winter fishing the butt section will straighten out upon use after a short time – paticularly if you can get the assistance of a large Lake Ontario steelhead. Steve

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Saltwater flyfishers who head offshore! I routinely carry six or eight stretchers with a dozen to two dozen flies per stretcher when heading offshore. They keep the shock leader, or bite tippet, straight and ready to go at a moments notice. Tom Dougherty – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m interested in knowing who besides a tarpon fisherman has use for a fly leaderstretcher.  Please e-mail me direct with any input. thanks. mark. Mark Gervase I fish for trout here in Oregon and regularly use a stretcher when needed.  I use a piece of rubber tubing cut from an old inner tube. works fine.  Another old trick is to rub toothpaste on the leader to sink it.  Works great too.  Neither of which costs hardly anything.

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. I have developed my own easy-to-make, inexpensive stretchers for tarpon, snook, pike, muskies, and sometimes (without shocks) even for chinooks and cohos. Bob Elliott

Sounds interesting, How about a description? Rick

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I use a piece of stiff cardboard with slots at each end to keep shock leaders for flats fishing off Cedar Key/Suwannee coast.  Tell me what – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m interested in knowing who besides a tarpon fisherman has use for a fly leaderstretcher.  Please e-mail me direct with any input. thanks. mark. Mark Gervase I fish for trout here in Oregon and regularly use a stretcher when needed.  I use a piece of rubber tubing cut from an old inner tube. works fine.  Another old trick is to rub toothpaste on the leader to sink it.  Works great too.  Neither of which costs hardly anything.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Richard–Regarding your response to my comment about leader stretchers: the stretchers I make are out of a relatively new material that is used alot in the fabrication of portable exhibits (trade shows, etc.). It is like foam core, but doesn’t have foam! It’s waterproof and while it is rigid , it’ll still bend. Basically, I cut the material into 24" x 12" sections. Then I drill six holes near the top and six more holes about 3 inches below and offset from the first set of holes. These holes are where I place my tied and preknotted flies. On the other end of the board I cut 12 slits to align with the holes I cut in the other end. These slits are for the shook/tippet to slide through. On the back side, I individually tape the tippet of each pretied shock,tippet and fly. By taping each tightly, I create a slight bow in the board that put stress on the shock until I use it. All in all, I love this simple system … I store the boards in a canvas carry bag and have quicker access to pretied flies and shocks than with any other system. Its great when you are on a boat for tarpon. I the directions aren’t clear, send me a personal email, and I’ll try to clarify them. Thanks. Bob Elliott

Bob,         Every time I try to use a leader stretcher (for blues) I run into the same problem. In my living room the flies all sit on the stretcher nice and pretty with the tippets neatly coiled like prepackaged guitar strings. Then, after I take it out once or twice all these nice coils become a tangled mess, I pull them all off the stretcher and throow the lot away ! How do you keep those coils from coming loose/getting tangled, etc. ? The knots I tie accidentally seem stronger than those I tie on purpose….                                                 jc

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Richard–Regarding your response to my comment about leader stretchers: the stretchers I make are out of a relatively new material that is used alot in the fabrication of portable exhibits (trade shows, etc.). It is like foam core, but doesn’t have foam! It’s waterproof and while it is rigid , it’ll still bend. Basically, I cut the material into 24" x 12" sections. Then I drill six holes near the top and six more holes about 3 inches below and offset from the first set of holes. These holes are where I place my tied and preknotted flies. On the other end of the board I cut 12 slits to align with the holes I cut in the other end. These slits are for the shook/tippet to slide through. On the back side, I individually tape the tippet of each pretied shock,tippet and fly. By taping each tightly, I create a slight bow in the board that put stress on the shock until I use it. All in all, I love this simple system … I store the boards in a canvas carry bag and have quicker access to pretied flies and shocks than with any other system. Its great when you are on a boat for tarpon. I the directions aren’t clear, send me a personal email, and I’ll try to clarify them. Thanks. Bob Elliott

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Bob, Every time I try to use a leader stretcher (for blues) I run into the same problem. In my living room the flies all sit on the stretcher nice and pretty with the tippets neatly coiled like prepackaged guitar strings. Then, after I take it out once or twice all these nice coils become a tangled mess, I pull them all off the stretcher and throow the lot away ! How do you keep those coils from coming loose/getting tangled, etc. ? The knots I tie accidentally seem stronger than those I tie on purpose….

      jc Dear jc … I know the problem. My little system has kept the tangling to a minimum. First of all I loop-to-loop connections for all pretied leaders. I tie the fly to the shock (usually no longer than 6") and then, with a huffnagle or albright with lock, the shock to the tippet (minimum IGFA length). So from hook point to the end of tippet I’ve got about 26" of stuff. I tie a double or triple surgeons loop at the end of the tippet. That’s all I put on the stretcher. I can get at least a dozen pretied setups on each of the homemade stretchers I described. I then tape each loop to the back of the stretcher with artist’s (restickable) masking tape, creating enough tension to keep each pretied setup tight. I have a loop pretied to the butt section on the reel, so whenever I want to change flies, I do the loop to loop thing and replace the unwanted setup on the stretcher using the restickable tape. It’s not perfect, but it works (even in the rain). Good fishin’ Bob Elliott

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I don’t use leader strechers, I fish for them…. TimW

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I’m interested in knowing who besides a tarpon fisherman has use for a fly leaderstretcher.  Please e-mail me direct with any input. thanks. mark. Mark Gervase

Anyone who is using 60# or heavier mono for shock(wear) tippets for fish with abrasive mouths like tarpon and billfish. It keeps the heavy material straight so your fly will run straight. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

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Question:

                            FLY FISHING BOOKS                                  FOR THE                                 SPORTSMAN * The American Sportsman Treasury, ‘71, by Knopf.  A collection of Fly Fishing and Hunting stories, with terrific art work and photos.  Chapters on fly fishing for Brown and Rainbow Trout, fly patterns that produce results, bamboo fly rods; and hunting white tail deer, woodcock, water foul, mountain sheep, grouse, etc. All written by famous authors, eg. Charles F. Waterman, Lee Wulff, Leonard M. Wright, Roderick Haig-Brown, William G. Sheldon and many others. An excellent book for the all around sportsman, and a way to reflect on the sporting heritage. * The Treasury of Angling, ‘63 by Koller.  A comprehensive history of angling, and the birth and growth of fly fishing. Chapters on angling in antiquity, early american angling, tackle, flies, entomology, Salmon, Trout, Bass, and other fresh water fish.  Terrific photos and art work.  Learn about the history of fly fishing and game fish, and gain a full sporting knowledge of the art of fly fishing. E-mail me if interested in these books, and I will e-mail cost info. JWTrout/2/11/96

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I’m interested. Thanks, Wayne Lance

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Question:

   Okay folks!  Just for grins, why don’t we all tell a little about : _where_ we tie our flies!  Have a permanent spot?  Or always breaking out : the stuff, then sweeping away bits of feather and tinsel?  Seen any : clever setups?  What’s the ideal way to store your stuff for ready access? : Enquiring flyfishers want to know!

I use a "Hackle Hutch" table top cabinet I ordered from the Bailey Fly Shop several years ago, but I’m not sure they still make it. For travelling, I use a D.B. Dun travelling case. I love ‘em both. Gary W. Godden/CO.

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       Okay folks!  Just for grins, why don’t we all tell a little about _where_ we tie our flies!

    Before I became interested in fly fishing, I was a band director.  I had a     big drafting desk for charting marching drill.  It now serves as my fly     tying table.  I have, however, outgrown my cardboard box for my materials.     (ha)     Bob

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in response to:  Okay folks!  Just for grins, why don’t we all tell a little about _where_ we tie our flies! I work at my desk at college.  I don’t have any "real" fly tying materials.  I just   use a pair of vise grips and a large book to set on one end to hold it steady.  i   kinda like seeing how little equipment I can get a way with.

Of course, it would be hard (for me) not to mention the infamous Bing Lemke.   Bing passed on several years ago, but there are several books which document his fly tying mastry.  Bing was most famous for the extended body, iwamasa winged may flies he tied . . . in sizes 32, 36 and 38 . . . without a vice!  A photo of Bing’s hands show them to be crusty, callosed, arthritic meat cleavers.  Yet, he was able to pinch the barb of a hook while he wove masterful flies.  He used no bobbin, just pulled a length of thread off a spool and twisted up the smallest, most authentic mayflies you ever saw.  Bing is a standard to be emulated.  I am continually humbled by his memory. Pete Morris

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 Okay folks!  Just for grins, why don’t we all tell a little about _where_ we tie our flies!

For what it’s worth, I like working into a corner (two suspended counter tops at right angles) which makes it easier to hang a waste-basket right below the vice. I also keep an 18×18" blue poster board behind the vise, which reduces eye strain. Ear phones, jolt-cola and chew help keep the production level up too. —

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Wilkinson) writes: <flying tying desk I’ve managed to find happiness with the same Plano box your speak of, mated with a large drafting table. Just the right height, plenty of space. And onsidering the price ($25 at a garage sale), unbeatable. I’m thinking of adding on a cork bulletin board to hand flies on for drying, but can’t bring myself to put holes in the wall I just finished painting last year. JL 8-Wt Editor

I’ve been using an old hard side brief-case for years. It’s been getting pretty full resently. Got a place to mount a vice inside and sits on about any desk or in the car. My problem is, I’ve got kids. If I left the stuff out I know I would be removing hooks and cleaning up all the time. Regards, Marc Cozzi

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 Okay folks!  Just for grins, why don’t we all tell a little about _where_ we tie our flies!

Well, up until this week I was tying at a small drafting table, with a home- made version of a tying table I saw in the Cabell’s catalog on top. I had laid out the original on a piece of cardboard, and rapidly came to the conclusion that the commercially available desks had WAY too little room for my taste! The one I made is 12" deep, 24" long, and has 14 pegs long enough for 3 spools of thread along the back. The arms are 3 inches wide, with two staggered rows of holes for tools…10 per side. Now, as I said, this was till this week… I’ve moved rooms now, and have a dedicated table in the basement, made from a spare closet door! 30" wide, and 6′6" long, with four 6′ shelves above it. I keep my materials in plastic shoe boxes (from the local $1 shop) on the shelves. I’m in heaven! <<grin — Joe Ellis         o/~ The Synthetic Filker o/~ |    TesserAct Studios

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I currently have a large "Lid Locker" tackle box under my desk here at work. At lunch when the mood strikes me, I can set up and zip out several deceivers and Clouser minnows during my lunch hour. I really love the tackle box, plenty of room for my hook collection in the lid, and easy to get to. I do get the occasional funny look from passing workmates though, and sometimes I’ll hand in a report with fine feather down between the pages and cuttings of Krystal Flash, but it’s pretty much become my trademark around here… Kai

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:       Okay folks!  Just for grins, why don’t we all tell a little about : _where_ we tie our flies!  Have a permanent spot?  Or always breaking out : the stuff, then sweeping away bits of feather and tinsel?  Seen any : clever setups?  What’s the ideal way to store your stuff for ready access? : Enquiring flyfishers want to know! Whoops, sorry Scott.  I hit reply instead of followup. Anyway, I use a foot locker (not military but it would work fine) that I modified by building two shallow trays that slip inside and adding outside corner moulding to the top to help keep materials on it when I use it as a tying surface.  It holds "almost" everything and is portable at least to motels and pickup camps.  It doubles as an end table in my office which is furnished about as "mix & match" as you could imagine, so it fits.  I’m pretty happy. Chuck

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: :     Okay folks!  Just for grins, why don’t we all tell a little about : : _where_ we tie our flies!  Have a permanent spot?  Or always breaking out I tied commercially for awhile in my 13′ trailer out in the driveway by lantern.  I kinda liked it.  Now I have a desk that I built and all of my supplies in tupperware boxes that stack.  I built a shelf that is mounted to the wall that has holes in it for the tools (some go all the way through and some only about an inch).  Beats the kitchen table, but I must say that I managed to tie about a billion flies at the ol’ kitchen table, so I guess the moral is not to wait for the ideal setup, but start a’dubbin no matter where you be… Tim Walker

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I am a little late in reading my newsgroup, but if it’s not too late I would like the details of the tying desk. The club I am a member of has a design that is very cheap/inexpensive to build.

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I reverse engineered an almost perfect copy of the Orvis Portable oak tying table from the catalog picture.  Made it from furniture grade oak for about $50 total.  It could easily be made from plywood or laminate for a lot less.  It works great.  Anyone who wants details let me know.

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Wilkinson) writes:

<flying tying desk I’ve managed to find happiness with the same Plano box your speak of, mated with a large drafting table. Just the right height, plenty of space. And onsidering the price ($25 at a garage sale), unbeatable. I’m thinking of adding on a cork bulletin board to hand flies on for drying, but can’t bring myself to put holes in the wall I just finished painting last year. JL 8-Wt Editor

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:       Okay folks!  Just for grins, why don’t we all tell a little about : _where_ we tie our flies!  Have a permanent spot?  Or always breaking out <Scotts situation deleted I used to have to break out  equipment and you know I always forgot something. Then one day I arrived home to find the most horrible piece of furniture sitting enticingly under a large window with the westering sun streaming on to it’s laminated surface and what’s more it’s in the LIVING room (true dinks!). My SO (bless her cotton socks) had gone a purchased a $20 dollar desk from a junk shop. The living room placement has advantages and disadvantages:         – you can be sociable and still tie                 (although people like to look over your shoulder)         – She can always find you         – Pets like to help (especially the Cats)         – and you can keep an ear on the "game" and monitor the answering machine. With 4 large drawers for finished flies, hackles, fur and feathers and a pair of those plastic multi-drawer boxes and a small desk lamp – not quite paradise but good enough in the interim. Left covered in the detritus of a tying session the singular unattractiveness of the desk is almost hidden steve Melbourne, Australia

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   Okay folks!  Just for grins, why don’t we all tell a little about _where_ we tie our flies!

A few years ago I chanced across an old, oak library cardfile.  It has 60 drawers and 3 pull-out leaves at mid-level.  Unlike most card files, this one’s drawers have solid bottoms and a recessed rod for holding the gizmo designed to keep the cards upright.  The drawers are just wide enough for a nice neck.  I picked this up for $200.  It is certainly not a piece of furniture for a newbie.  It’s big and heavy, but it is great to be able to organize everything. Glad I have a home office to keep this thing in! Pete Morris

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 Okay folks!  Just for grins, why don’t we all tell a little about _where_ we tie our flies!

Still working at the dining room table, unfortunately.   However, The wife is looking for Xmas suggestions.  

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    Okay folks!  Just for grins, why don’t we all tell a little about _where_ we tie our flies!  Have a permanent spot?  Or always breaking out the stuff, then sweeping away bits of feather and tinsel?  Seen any clever setups?  What’s the ideal way to store your stuff for ready access? Enquiring flyfishers want to know!    Oh yes…we’re talking "budget" here, unless you know of a specially-made desk that worth the $$$!    I’ll start off by saying for months I’ve been searching for an ideal "on-the-road" fly tying kit…I finally found what works pretty darn well: a Plano "Phantom Pro" tackle box!  It’s one of the giant "BASSMASTER" kinds (made to hold 10,000 plugs ‘n spinners).  This particular model is good for fly tiers, though, because it has a spacious top compartment plenty big enough for your vise and all your hackle capes. Then, the front panel opens out, then slides _under_ the 4 compartment drawers…so it doesn’t get in the way when you set the whole thing on a table to tie.  Got mine for $40 at the local Sports Authority store.    Otherwise, I just found an old desk in the basement of our neighborhood church that the minister said I could have…it’s not very pretty, but looks great for tying!  It’s a "semi-rolltop," meaning it has two rolltop compartments on either side, with the usual cubbyholes and drawers in the middle.    A friend has a full-fledged rolltop, which is great for just hiding the whole mess when guests arrive!    What do YOU do? —      //\ Scott Wilkinson                           "No one suspects      \// Independent Documentary Producer         the days to be gods."      //\ Bethesda, Maryland      \// (301)229-4742                                —Emerson

I’m sorry, but I have the ultimate.  We have an extra bedroom in my house which I adopted as my office.  Pulled up the stupid carpet, re-finished the hardwood floor and re-painted the walls.  By one wall I have a big old steel military desk with my computer and work references.  On the opposite wall I have a 2.5′ x 8′ peice of hardwood veneer plywood stretched across 2 short file cabinets (Yes, I had to get a banister post to serve as a leg in the middle) to serve as my fly tying bench.  I have a small bookshelf on the desk for my fishing books, and all my materials are filed in shoe boxes by material, then color, in order across my fly desk.  I also have those hardware organiser drawer things for odds and ends.  Under the desk I have boxes of spare bird skins and other larger things, and in the closet hang my entire large animal hydes (currently deer and sheep).  The rest of the closet has my fishing bags and rod collection.  I never have to clean it up, I just shut the door to keep out kids (when they visit, I don’t have any yet myself).  I have a large area to work  too.  I like to invite friends over to tie with me, and there’s room for 2 people with vises to sit at this thing.  The best part is that I have a big oak and leather rolling chair in the middle.  When I work at the computer, I set the computer to do a long job, turn around and tie a fly.  Then when the computer is ready I work until the computer is stuck calculating another long function when I just swing around and tie another fly.  Never a wasted moment here.  I can just work for hours like this. . Sorry to brag.  Hope many others out there get something as nice or better. . Lenny Blokberg . .

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        Okay folks!  Just for grins, why don’t we all tell a little about _where_ we tie our flies!  Have a permanent spot?  Or always breaking out the stuff, then sweeping away bits of feather and tinsel?  Seen any clever setups?  What’s the ideal way to store your stuff for ready access? Enquiring flyfishers want to know!         Oh yes…we’re talking "budget" here, unless you know of a specially-made desk that worth the $$$!         I’ll start off by saying for months I’ve been searching for an ideal "on-the-road" fly tying kit…I finally found what works pretty darn well: a Plano "Phantom Pro" tackle box!  It’s one of the giant "BASSMASTER" kinds (made to hold 10,000 plugs ‘n spinners).  This particular model is good for fly tiers, though, because it has a spacious top compartment plenty big enough for your vise and all your hackle capes. Then, the front panel opens out, then slides _under_ the 4 compartment drawers…so it doesn’t get in the way when you set the whole thing on a table to tie.  Got mine for $40 at the local Sports Authority store.         Otherwise, I just found an old desk in the basement of our neighborhood church that the minister said I could have…it’s not very pretty, but looks great for tying!  It’s a "semi-rolltop," meaning it has two rolltop compartments on either side, with the usual cubbyholes and drawers in the middle.         A friend has a full-fledged rolltop, which is great for just hiding the whole mess when guests arrive!         What do YOU do? —      //\ Scott Wilkinson                           "No one suspects      \// Independent Documentary Producer         the days to be gods."      //\ Bethesda, Maryland      \// (301)229-4742                                —Emerson

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