Question:

That was my raffle prize – did you win it?

Jeff, I’d read it earlier and still have it.  At the raffle I won something that I didn’t want and then IJ made some kind of fast trade with me for something that I wanted even less.  The raffle was excellent by the way. bruce h

Response:

I liked "Wisdom of the Guides" quite a bit.

OK, I changed the order again. Damn these compiles are taking forever tonight!

Response:

I liked "Wisdom of the Guides" quite a bit. That was my raffle prize – did you win it?

"Re-gifter"?  ;-)

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Would someone/everyone mind commenting on these two books (Prospecting for Trout by Rosenbauer; Reading the Water by Hughes) . . .  I’m certainly not casting this as a competition, just want to understand a little more about them from the always enlightening roff perspective. Thanks!

I just finished reading "Reading the Water" by Dave Hughes. I felt it would have been a better book with a few less words and a few more illustrations to illustrate what he was talking about. It was enjoyable reading though. HTH, Russell Thinkin’ RockTrout won’t be changin’ his order for this one.

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I liked "Wisdom of the Guides" quite a bit. That was my raffle prize – did you win it? "Re-gifter"?  ;-)

No no, I bought it new for the raffle.  There were interviews with guys like Mike Lawson, which seemed appropriate for the Henry’s Fork Clave.

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I know Prospecting for Trout fairly well.  Rosenbauer is an Orvis bigwig, and I believe he has written some of their best books. The book was originally printed under a separate publisher.  On recent printings, it’s being published by Orvis, as part of their "library" of fishing books.  He also wrote a book on reading the water which might be better than Hughes’ by the way, simply because it has more and bigger pictures, and pictures are important for learning how to read water.

Alright Jeff, you talked me into getting the book.  I also decided to pick up 3 others….:)  All on sale right now at Amazon with free shipping!

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I liked "Wisdom of the Guides" quite a bit. bruce h currently enjoying "The River Why"

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I liked "Wisdom of the Guides" quite a bit.

Me too. Lots of good tidbits in that book. I thought that the author could do a whole series of books. It would be easy, just interview some more guides. Willi

Response:

I liked "Wisdom of the Guides" quite a bit.

That was my raffle prize – did you win it?

Response:

Would someone/everyone mind commenting on these two books (Prospecting for Trout by Rosenbauer; Reading the Water by Hughes) . . .  I’m certainly not casting this as a competition, just want to understand a little more about them from the always enlightening roff perspective. Thanks!

Response:

Would someone/everyone mind commenting on these two books (Prospecting for Trout by Rosenbauer; Reading the Water by Hughes) . . .  I’m certainly not casting this as a competition, just want to understand a little more about them from the always enlightening roff perspective. Thanks!

I know Prospecting for Trout fairly well.  Rosenbauer is an Orvis bigwig, and I believe he has written some of their best books.  He also grew up in my neck of the woods, and comes to visit from time to time. The book is mainly about how to fish when the dry fly fishing is off, i.e., how to approach a stream when you don’t see any fish rising, and you don’t know much about the water.  I think its a very good book. — Scott Reverse first field of address to reply

Response:

I know Prospecting for Trout fairly well.  Rosenbauer is an Orvis bigwig, and I believe he has written some of their best books.

The book was originally printed under a separate publisher.  On recent printings, it’s being published by Orvis, as part of their "library" of fishing books.  He also wrote a book on reading the water which might be better than Hughes’ by the way, simply because it has more and bigger pictures, and pictures are important for learning how to read water. The book is mainly about how to fish when the dry fly fishing is off, i.e., how to approach a stream when you don’t see any fish rising, and you don’t know much about the water.  I think its a very good book.

When you don’t see fish rising, but not necessarily when dry fly fishing is off!  Agreed, it’s very good for quickly sizing up water that you’ve never seen before – highly recommended.

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Question:

Hey Bob, you ever fish at Montauk? Wolfgang

Absotively. My one and hopefully only experience with a flash flood was at Montauk. For those who are unfamiliar with it, Montauk is a Missouri state trout park. A very small stream runs into it, and then is joined by the outflow from a large spring, thereby creating the headwater of the Current River, a National Scenic River. The Current really is a beautiful stream. One rainy day I was standing in a pool at the confluence of the spring and the stream when I suddenly felt the water becoming warm. I hadn’t had much beer recently, so I knew it warn’t my fault. Then I saw a few leaves and debris in the water, which I attributed to kids playing upstream. When the water began to visibly rise, it finally registered in my brain that it was raining upstream. By the time I moved fifteen feet from the pool to the bank the water had risen from waist deep to shoulder deep, and was still rising. It was not just the cold that had my legs trembling. It was truly a frightening experience. Montauk is heavily stocked. But I have the honor of having been skunked there. Haven’t been in several years, but it’s a marvelous place for new fly fishers and for kids. Bob

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Since I just got my first digital camera (Olympus D-40), I use this opportunity to compare it with my old Minolta XG-1.  Got the scanner now, so can put in pics from either. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey Bob, you ever fish at Montauk? Wolfgang Absotively. My one and hopefully only experience with a flash flood was at Montauk. For those who are unfamiliar with it, Montauk is a Missouri state trout park. A very small stream runs into it, and then is joined by the outflow from a large spring, thereby creating the headwater of the Current River, a National Scenic River. The Current really is a beautiful stream. One rainy day I was standing in a pool at the confluence of the spring and the stream when I suddenly felt the water becoming warm. I hadn’t had much beer recently, so I knew it warn’t my fault. Then I saw a few leaves and debris in the water, which I attributed to kids playing upstream. When the water began to visibly rise, it finally registered in my brain that it was raining upstream. By the time I moved fifteen feet from the pool to the bank the water had risen from waist deep to shoulder deep, and was still rising. It was not just the cold that had my legs trembling. It was truly a frightening experience. Montauk is heavily stocked. But I have the honor of having been skunked there. Haven’t been in several years, but it’s a marvelous place for new fly fishers and for kids.

I fished there several times when I was living in Black about eleven years ago.  As far as I recall, I never caught a fish.  At that time, I fished dries exclusively (these days I enjoy fishing streamers and will, occasionally, fish nymphs when pressed) and I believe every dry fly purist I saw there suffered the same fate as I; only nymphers caught fish on flies.  Much of the park was open to bait fishers, but some of the water was reserved for flies only.  The rangers used to sit up on the hill with binoculars in this stretch, and every once in while they would rush down to bust some idiot. I remember that in addition to having to purchase a fishing license, fishing within the park required having a daily tag.  For each tag sold, the hatchery managers would release three new fish on the following day.  The daily creel limit was three fish.  Naturally, not everyone caught and kept the legal limit….in fact, MOST did not.  One is left to suppose that the excess fish somehow found their way out of the park and met their fate elsewhere.  Vending machines (the kind where you stick a quarter in the slot and turn the handle) lined the rearing ponds at every ten yards or so.  Tourists were more than willing to pay a quarter to get a handful of trout pellets and cast them upon the waters to watch the fish go into a frenzy.  I suspect that the managers never had to feed the fish.  The fish, for their part, were generally not inclined to eat anything that looked like a bug. Beautiful, clear and presumably nearly sterile water water within the park.  Well, probably not sterile (I THINK there was a lot of limestone in the area), but near enough to the spring that there was little plant life evident and whatever bugs lived there were probably quickly snatched up by the few fish that remained alive and in the park long enough to figure out that not all food was pellet shaped. Altogether, a pretty weird fishing experience but a lovely place nonetheless.  NC, as you will see if you haven’t already, is a whole ‘nother thang.      :) Wolfgang

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Now that the thesis is done, it’s time to do something with my long ignored site.  Over the next couple of months I’ll be using existing <snip Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html Peter,  What an outstanding collection of pictures and knowledge!  My education in streamer fishing just jumped from first grade to at least 7th or 8th.  I’ll be giving streamer fishing more of a chance than I have in the past. (Thank goodness for wireless internet.  With my old, slow dial up connection, I never would have looked at your site or any other with lots of pictures as it was just too painful to wait while even one picture loaded Snoop

Pleased that it was of some use. Hopefully by the late fall, I’ll have updated most sections as it’s become dated.  And yes, it’s designed with high speed access in mind. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Now that the thesis is done, it’s time to do something with my long ignored site.  Over the next couple of months I’ll be using existing <snip Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Peter,   What an outstanding collection of pictures and knowledge!  My education in streamer fishing just jumped from first grade to at least 7th or 8th.  I’ll be giving streamer fishing more of a chance than I have in the past. (Thank goodness for wireless internet.  With my old, slow dial up connection, I never would have looked at your site or any other with lots of pictures as it was just too painful to wait while even one picture loaded Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – post more, please.  are there trout in the meramec? Here are a few pix of a tributary of the Meramec River in Missouri named Blue Spring Creek. It’s a tiny little wild trout stream, and I’ve gotten to know it pretty well over the last ten years or so. It’s perfect for my Sage LL 7′9" 3-weight. Even did some electro-shock sampling there with the department of conservation people a few years ago, and was astonished at what we found. The fish shown in the last image below is a typical but a bit large BSC rainbow. http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/BSC-1.jpg http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/BSC-2.jpg http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/BSC-oct-2.jpg http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/BSC-Rainbow-1.jpg

Those look very nice indeed – is this a spring creek? Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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indeed – is this a spring creek? Peter

Thanks. I’m glad you liked them. Yes, this is a spring creek. We have some very large springs – like, the size of houses. Blue Springs Creek is the outflow from several relatively small springs in very close proximity to each other. I’ve caught some fairly large (15 – 18 inches) trout there out of pools smaller than a desk. History trivia: Theodore Roosevelt once fished it. If it’s good enough for a Bullmoose it’s good enough for me! Bob — http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/

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indeed – is this a spring creek? Peter Thanks. I’m glad you liked them. Yes, this is a spring creek. We have some very large springs – like, the size of houses. Blue Springs Creek is the outflow from several relatively small springs in very close proximity to each other. I’ve caught some fairly large (15 – 18 inches) trout there out of pools smaller than a desk. History trivia: Theodore Roosevelt once fished it. If it’s good enough for a Bullmoose it’s good enough for me!

Hey Bob, you ever fish at Montauk? Wolfgang

Response:

Now that the thesis is done, it’s time to do something with my long ignored site.  Over the next couple of months I’ll be using existing photos of the rivers I’ve fished to put together essays on each one. They certainly won’t be shining examples of photographic art, merely representations of different aspects of the river and it’s species. It’s just a means of putting up a gallery in a thematic way. I’d be very pleased to also put up other people’s river essays. (With appropriate credit, of course.)   All that’s required is a few photos and a caption for each one. Digital photos happily accepted.  Fine art B&W also.  :) Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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//snip// I’d be very pleased to also put up other people’s river essays. (With appropriate credit, of course.)   All that’s required is a few photos and a caption for each one. Digital photos happily accepted.  Fine art B&W also.  :)

Peter – I enjoyed your photos of the Nith. It would be great to see pictures of the rivers haunted by some of the folks around here. Here are some of mine. Use them, or not, as you see fit. This is a photo of the Meramec River in east central Missouri, near the town of Rosati. This location is below a bluff we call "Suicide Hill. http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/Meramec-SH.jpg This is the same river from the top of the bluff: http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/View.JPG If these work OK I have a few more of a different stream I’d be happy to send. Bob — http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peter – I enjoyed your photos of the Nith. It would be great to see pictures of the rivers haunted by some of the folks around here. Here are some of mine. Use them, or not, as you see fit. This is a photo of the Meramec River in east central Missouri, near the town of Rosati. This location is below a bluff we call "Suicide Hill. http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/Meramec-SH.jpg This is the same river from the top of the bluff: http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/View.JPG If these work OK I have a few more of a different stream I’d be happy to send. Bob

Thanks Bob, If you have a couple more of the Meramec, that’ll be great.  I would hope to have a few dozen rivers eventually, each with a little story – location, species, etc. and something that makes the river unique or special.  I’m presently assembling and scanning photos for the Grand and I should have that up in a few days.  On top of what people send me, I intent is to have the Grand, Credit, Saugeen, Whitemans, Bronte, the Rapid and if I have enough photos, both AuSables and the Muskegon.   Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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post more, please.  are there trout in the meramec? jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peter – I enjoyed your photos of the Nith. It would be great to see pictures of the rivers haunted by some of the folks around here. Here are some of mine. Use them, or not, as you see fit. This is a photo of the Meramec River in east central Missouri, near the town of Rosati. This location is below a bluff we call "Suicide Hill. http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/Meramec-SH.jpg This is the same river from the top of the bluff: http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/View.JPG If these work OK I have a few more of a different stream I’d be happy to send. Bob — http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/

Response:

//snip If you have a couple more of the Meramec, that’ll be great.  I would hope to have a few dozen rivers eventually, each with a little story – location, species, etc. and something that makes the river unique or special.  I’m presently assembling and scanning photos for the Grand and I should have that up in a few days.  On top of what people send me, I intent is to have the Grand, Credit, Saugeen, Whitemans, Bronte, the Rapid and if I have enough photos, both AuSables and the Muskegon.

OK – let me see what I can figure out. The Meramec is not Missouri’s best trout stream, but it can be fairly photogenic in places. More later. Bob — http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/

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post more, please.  are there trout in the meramec? jeff

OK. As soon as I figure out how to keep from posting a ten meg graphics file. Yes. There are wild rainbows in the Meramec. It also has a population of browns, but since browns don’t reproduce in Missouri they are mostly holdovers. The department of conservation stocks browns and rainbows annually in the Meramec, but there are other streams that have not been stocked in years. Most of the wild trout in MO were brought here from California by railroaders a hundred years ago. Bob — http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/

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post more, please.  are there trout in the meramec?

Here are a few pix of a tributary of the Meramec River in Missouri named Blue Spring Creek. It’s a tiny little wild trout stream, and I’ve gotten to know it pretty well over the last ten years or so. It’s perfect for my Sage LL 7′9" 3-weight. Even did some electro-shock sampling there with the department of conservation people a few years ago, and was astonished at what we found. The fish shown in the last image below is a typical but a bit large BSC rainbow. http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/BSC-1.jpg http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/BSC-2.jpg http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/BSC-oct-2.jpg http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/BSC-Rainbow-1.jpg — http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/

Response:

Question:

rw, You are beginning to sound like Forty and his objection to squaw,

You really think so? Never mind, then. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Which is one reason why I do it. TL MC — "Where fishing is concerned, most anglers are basically manic excessives" http://www.mikeconnor.de – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …to paraphrase Robert Lynd (who was talking about playing golf):  It’s almost impossible to remember how tragic a place the world is when one is flyfishing.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Have you seen the sponsored landmine site – sponsorship helps to repair the damage done by these amoral weapons – yeah yeah I know it is the user not the weapon but you get my drift. "Land mines." I feel I must call attention to a serious lack of sensitivity in the flyfishing community. I am of course referring to the use of the term "Chernobyl", as in Chernobyl Ant, Chernobyl Hopper, and several other so-called fly patterns of similar type. Don’t you people realize that over 70,000 Ukranians alone were killed or disabled by the tragedy of the Chernobyl nuclear accident, and that their descendants will continue to suffer the effects, including grotesque mutations and birth defects, for years to come? It is insensitive and irresponsible in the extreme to make light of that deplorable and tragic accident just to make a catchy name for something as frivolous as a fishing fly.

_____  gee r.w.?  You had to post this just when I was about to release the New 2001 products list: 1)  Chernobyl "First Strike" Glow Indicators 2)  Green Chernobyl Fish-Fuzz 3)  Chernobyl (half-life) Sun Tan Cream 4)  The Dirty Nuclear Green Machine Fly 5)  Heavy Hydrogen Sinking Chernobyl Tippets I have more, but out of respect to your point of view, I cannot release these products.

Response:

_____  gee r.w.?  You had to post this just when I was about to release the New 2001 products list: 1)  Chernobyl "First Strike" Glow Indicators

Great product name. George. You may be crazy, but you aren’t stupid. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

RW, I don’t think most of these guys would think it was funny if THEY were on the VA Agent Orange and/or Gulf War Syndrome registry. El Paso Bob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Have you seen the sponsored landmine site – sponsorship helps to repair the damage done by these amoral weapons – yeah yeah I know it is the user not the weapon but you get my drift. "Land mines." I feel I must call attention to a serious lack of sensitivity in the flyfishing community. I am of course referring to the use of the term "Chernobyl", as in Chernobyl Ant, Chernobyl Hopper, and several other so-called fly patterns of similar type. Don’t you people realize that over 70,000 Ukranians alone were killed or disabled by the tragedy of the Chernobyl nuclear accident, and that their descendants will continue to suffer the effects, including grotesque mutations and birth defects, for years to come? It is insensitive and irresponsible in the extreme to make light of that deplorable and tragic accident just to make a catchy name for something as frivolous as a fishing fly. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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RW, I don’t think most of these guys would think it was funny if THEY were on the VA Agent Orange and/or Gulf War Syndrome registry.

This has nothing to do with anything, but RWJ’s post reminded me of the story: I’ve known a lot of stupid people in my life, but one guy stands out in my memory.   He was a coworker many years ago who, through little fault of his own, had apparently no concept of the world most of us consider normal. From our conversations over the years, I concluded that he’d been raised in a home situation lacking in intellectual stimulation, financial stability, and positive encouragement.   On top of that, he was of small stature, and seemed to feel a constant need to prove that he was both tough and smart. He was, in fact, insecure and not very bright.   But that’s only background. He took up body building, and I believe he seriously thought about pursuing a career as a "professional wrestler".   He began weight lifting, and in his desire to acquire the bodybuilder look, he decided that he needed a tan; and he answered one of those back-of-the-magazine ads for a product that allows you to "tan without the sun".   I don’t know what was in the pills he received, but he took them as directed (knowing him though, probably at twice the dosage).   He was encouraged that his skin did begin to darken, and he continued his regimen.   Ultimately, he turned orange.   Not brightly, of course, but as the color effect intensified over time, there wasn’t a hint of brown to be seen.   He was undoubtedly orange.   He, of course, saw this an a precursor to "tan" and kept taking the pills, until he was unmistakably orange right down to his fingernails. In the end, he only earned the nickname "Agent Orange" that stayed with him for the rest of the time we knew him.   What a character.

Response:

rw, You are beginning to sound like Forty and his objection to squaw, "rw" wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I feel I must call attention to a serious lack of sensitivity in the flyfishing community. I am of course referring to the use of the term "Chernobyl", as in Chernobyl Ant, Chernobyl Hopper, and several other so-called fly patterns of similar type. Don’t you people realize that over 70,000 Ukranians alone were killed or disabled by the tragedy of the Chernobyl nuclear accident, and that their descendants will continue to suffer the effects, including grotesque mutations and birth defects, for years to come? It is insensitive and irresponsible in the extreme to make light of that deplorable and tragic accident just to make a catchy name for something as frivolous as a fishing fly.

Response:

…to paraphrase Robert Lynd (who was talking about playing golf):  It’s almost impossible to remember how tragic a place the world is when one is flyfishing. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Land mines." — that one is funny until you think about it. Brought to mind the old M.A.S.H. episode in which the Korean family had their child out front when plowing the fields to make sure the family ox wasn’t killed by a land mine.. Joe F. Ya, it’s a realy sad commentary on extreme rural poverty – a child is more expendable than the ox.  Farmers, their children and their animals are still at risk from landmines in much of SE Asia and Africa.  Wonderful legacy of the arms merchants. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Before the Gulf War Barbara Walters did a story on gender roles in Kuwait. She noted that women customarily walked about 10 feet behind their husbands. She returned to Kuwait recently and observed that the men now walked several yards behind their wives. Ms. Walters approached one of the women for an explanation. "This is marvelous," she said, "what enabled women to achieve such respect?"  The Kuwaiti woman replied, "Land mines." — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Before the Gulf War Barbara Walters did a story on gender roles in Kuwait. She noted that women customarily walked about 10 feet behind their husbands. She returned to Kuwait recently and observed that the men now walked several yards behind their wives. Ms. Walters approached one of the women for an explanation. "This is marvelous," she said, "what enabled women to achieve such respect?"  The Kuwaiti woman replied, "Land mines." —

that one is funny until you think about it. Peter

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"Land mines." — that one is funny until you think about it.

Brought to mind the old M.A.S.H. episode in which the Korean family had their child out front when plowing the fields to make sure the family ox wasn’t killed by a land mine.. Joe F.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Land mines." — that one is funny until you think about it. Brought to mind the old M.A.S.H. episode in which the Korean family had their child out front when plowing the fields to make sure the family ox wasn’t killed by a land mine.. Joe F.

Ya, it’s a realy sad commentary on extreme rural poverty – a child is more expendable than the ox.  Farmers, their children and their animals are still at risk from landmines in much of SE Asia and Africa.  Wonderful legacy of the arms merchants. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

I shoulda used this tactic with my ex-wife. The insurance money would have bought *several* nice bamboo rods. <g

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Before the Gulf War Barbara Walters did a story on gender roles in Kuwait. She noted that women customarily walked about 10 feet behind their husbands. She returned to Kuwait recently and observed that the men now walked several yards behind their wives. Ms. Walters approached one of the women for an explanation. "This is marvelous," she said, "what enabled women to achieve such respect?"  The Kuwaiti woman replied, "Land mines." — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Have you seen the sponsored landmine site – sponsorship helps to repair the damage done by these amoral weapons – yeah yeah I know it is the user not the weapon but you get my drift. "Land mines."

– Charles Reaves

Response:

Have you seen the sponsored landmine site – sponsorship helps to repair the damage done by these amoral weapons – yeah yeah I know it is the user not the weapon but you get my drift. "Land mines." — Charles Reaves

I’ve seen a few sites that cover landmines (I think I have them bookmarked somewhere) plus prgrams on Canadian and British demining teams at work in places like Bosnia.   Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Have you seen the sponsored landmine site – sponsorship helps to repair the damage done by these amoral weapons – yeah yeah I know it is the user not the weapon but you get my drift. "Land mines."

I feel I must call attention to a serious lack of sensitivity in the flyfishing community. I am of course referring to the use of the term "Chernobyl", as in Chernobyl Ant, Chernobyl Hopper, and several other so-called fly patterns of similar type. Don’t you people realize that over 70,000 Ukranians alone were killed or disabled by the tragedy of the Chernobyl nuclear accident, and that their descendants will continue to suffer the effects, including grotesque mutations and birth defects, for years to come? It is insensitive and irresponsible in the extreme to make light of that deplorable and tragic accident just to make a catchy name for something as frivolous as a fishing fly. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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Question:

at about 10 am on saturday, matt called me from the shop to let me know his guided trip was cancelled. it was sleeting/snowing and the outside temp. was about 28. we decided it was perfect weather to go fishing. so we got together, geared up, and headed over to tn to fish the tailwaters on the watauga. after a lunch stop at jeff miller’s favorite burger franchise, we headed to the parking area, put waders on and made our way down to the river. the watauga river at this stretch is about 40 to 50 yards wide with an awesome cliff face acting as the opposite bank. there is a water-level cave in the cliff face that as legend goes, was used by the confederates to hide ammo and stores in the recent unpleasantness. as we approached the water, a few other anglers were pulling out, explaining as they went that the water was going to be coming up from the generating station 12 miles east of where we were and it would get pretty hairy if you were out in the river. i asked one of the guys what kind of increase, and he pointed to his chest…in other words, about 3′ of higher water. well hell, we decided to stay close to shore (mama didn’t raise a fool) and try our luck. i tied on a bead-head pheasant tail, size 14 and started dead drifting it through a run and picked up a 12" or so rainbow. i noticed that i was now standing in about 2 feet of water where before it was only about a foot. i checked a rock that i was keeping an eye on, and sure enough, water was starting to flow over it. i hailed matt and told him we better move back some and as he was pulling in his contraption (for lack of a better term for the established guide rig) a rainbow took one of the many flies he was drifting. another gentleman, who was downstream from us, made his way up towards us and we all entered into discussion about what a great strech of river it was and how much higher the water would rise. neal was fishing a beautiful leonard bamboo rod with a princess reel, awesome. he was testing a new crane-fly pattern that he had tied up. as we were just standing in 6 or so inches of water trying to decide what to do about the riskier conditions, i started dead drifting again. bam, a fish. bam, another, fish. as matt was talking about leaving, bam, another fish. to hell with leaving….i say. the river had come up (a foot or two), the water was faster, but it was definetly fishable. here we were, just the three of us, on the most coveted trophy section of the watauga tail-race. cool. to shorten the story….many more fish were caught (matt even managed a big rainbow at about 18-20), some regal (pabst) beer was consumed, and afterwords, it only took 3 hours for my feet to thaw. walt — Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

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So how far is it from Raleigh to the Watauga? Steve Zimmerman

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – excellent trip report snipped… walt

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About 5.5 hours, Steve, if the weather’s OK and I-40/85 doesn’t have more than 10 wrecks in the construction zones between Durham and Hwy 421. Tom — Tom Brown The Signal Group Wake Forest, NC HEATHEN, n. A benighted creature who has the folly to worship something that he can see and feel.                – Ambrose Bierce: The Devil’s Dictionary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -.. So how far is it from Raleigh to the Watauga? Steve Zimmerman excellent trip report snipped… walt

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My favorite river appears to have a hatch of what somebody told me was Crane Flys.  The insects torso hangs below the wings and the bottom of the torso comes around and looks like it connects with the thorax.  Imagine a flying J with wings on the top part of the J and you have the insect I am talking about. Does anybody have any information on these insects and if so, what patterns best imitate them. Thanks! Mike Wilson Fishing!! What else is there?

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FlyFis4fun: <<Does anybody have any information on these insects and if so, what patterns best imitate them. Patterns are in "Fly Patterns of Umpqua Feather Merchants", and Stewrt/Allen’s "Flies for trout".  Both adult and larva patterns are listed.  I can not imagine the crane fly as a major hatch, but if you say so…… Dave LaCourse

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My favorite river appears to have a hatch of what somebody told me was Crane Flys.  The insects torso hangs below the wings and the bottom of the torso comes around and looks like it connects with the thorax.  Imagine a flying J with wings on the top part of the J and you have the insect I am talking about.

If they are indeed crane flies, also know as "daddy long legs" they belong to the family tipulidae, and are terrestrials which often fall on the water in considerable numbers, especially when it is windy,  being very clumsy fliers.  They are often imitated using long trailing knotted pheasant tail or nylon legs, body, hackle, and hackle tip spent wings to match the colour, usually from light tan to dark brown, but olive and yellow variations are also common.  An excellent pattern may be made using detached buoyant mayfly bodies. TL MC

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Thanks for the information gentleman but it appears that the insect that I am seeing is something other then the Crane Fly.   The insect in question, as afore mentioned, is a pale tan to whiteish tan and flys with its torso bent around to connect near its thorax.  It hatches in fair numbers though I must admit, I have never seen any of them actually land on the water.  The primary food on this river is Stone Flys so this is more of a question exploration then anything else. Thanks for the help so far. Mike

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for the information gentleman but it appears that the insect that I am seeing is something other then the Crane Fly. The insect in question, as afore mentioned, is a pale tan to whiteish tan and flys with its torso bent around to connect near its thorax.  It hatches in fair numbers though I must admit, I have never seen any of them actually land on the water.  The primary food on this river is Stone Flys so this is more of a question exploration then anything else. Thanks for the help so far. Mike

Hi Mike, how big is this insect ?  Does it hatch from the water, or does it just appear on the water ? TL MC

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Many Crane Fly species are terrestial, living in damp soil.  Aquatic species are usually found in streams with bottoms of fine gravel silt or sand.  Pupation usually takes place in damp soil along stream margins and is therefore of little account to the flyfisherperson. The larvae are simple and tube like and usually not available to fish as they burrow rather deeply and have no swimming abilities.  They are available during spates and may be represented by wooly worms.  The "Muskrat", an old Polly Rosborough pattern is another Crane Fly larva imitation.  Adults seem to be more available during light summer rains and may be represented by any appropriately sized and colored dry fly. As I write this I am watching a hiuge cranefly llumbering around the room….here in the Northwest there is a species that frequents lawns(well watered) and in climax years actually causes quite a bit of damage to the turf. Thanks for the information gentleman but it appears that the insect that I am seeing is something other then the Crane Fly.   The insect in question, as afore mentioned, is a pale tan to whiteish tan and flys with its torso bent around to connect near its thorax.  It hatches in fair numbers though I must admit, I have never seen any of them actually land on the water.  The primary food on this river is Stone Flys so this is more of a question exploration then anything else. Thanks for the help so far. Mike

– Mike in PDX "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                          Tom McGuane

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The insect in question, as afore mentioned, is a pale tan to whiteish tan and flys with its torso bent around to connect near its thorax.  It hatches in fair numbers though I must admit, I have never seen any of them actually land on the water.  The primary food on this river is Stone Flys so this is more of a question exploration then anything else. Thanks for the help so far. Mike

Hello Mike, I sometimes fish a limestone stream in Eastern Pennsylvania  where Orange Craneflys (orange head) gather in clusters all along the stream banks and edge of water.  The locals have an easy to tie pattern for the orange cranefly that is very effective..  Basically, your going to tie a dry fly without a tail or wings — just body, legs, & head.   Very lightly dubbed muskrat body with Dun colored hackle, use orange thread and build a small head.  I hope this helps. Dave

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My favorite river appears to have a hatch of what somebody told me was Crane Flys.  The insects torso hangs below the wings and the bottom of the torso comes around and looks like it connects with the thorax.  Imagine a flying J with wings on the top part of the J and you have the insect I am talking about. If they are indeed crane flies, also know as "daddy long legs"

I don’t know about where you live, Mike, but in the US Crane Flies and Daddy Long Legs are not at all the same thing. Crane Flies actually have wings and fly. They look like gigantic mosquitoes, but they don’t bite. Daddy Long Legs look like large spiders (but they aren’t spiders). They don’t have wings.

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Crane Flies:   When I was in Ireland a few summers ago, the gillie taught me how to "dibble" for salmon: He put a relatively heavy wet fly at the end of my leader, and then a bushy dry fly on a dropper, about 6′ up from the tippet.   The idea was to use the wet fly as an anchor, and then bob the rod tip, so the dry fly danced on the surface of the water…on the surface one second, then suddenly 6" above, like a big bug jumping up and down on the water.   So I haven’t tried this over hear yet, frankly, but talking about it did lead to some interesting new information. I told this story to George Anderson,   and he said  "Sure, the guys over in Dillon (MT) have been fishing the crane fly hatch on the Beaverhead that way for years!" — /* Sandy Pittendrigh                  –oO0  * http://www.nervana.montana.edu/~sandy  */

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They look like giant mosquitoes…so how about a size 2 mosquito??? George

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Fish the larvae The trout eat them Lots easier to tie too… a Beaver leech — Free Lake Fly Fishing On-Line Magazine Lake Fly Fishing CD’s, Videos, Books http://www.rural.escape.ca/angling_north/fishing/organz.htm

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Hi,     I’m going to be on vacation next week, I would like to hear any opinions on good spots to trout fish in Michigan. I don’t have a boat, so I need to know spots that I can wade or shore fish. Thanks, Jerry

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Where in Michigan will you be?  There are plenty of streams and lakes to wet your line in. Maurice Paquette – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi,    I’m going to be on vacation next week, I would like to hear any opinions on good spots to trout fish in Michigan. I don’t have a boat, so I need to know spots that I can wade or shore fish. Thanks, Jerry

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ubject: Michigan Flyfishing Spots for Vacation? Hi,    I’m going to be on vacation next week, I would like to hear any opinions on good spots to trout fish in Michigan. I don’t have a boat, so I need to know spots that I can wade or shore fish. Thanks, Jerry

Jerry, If you are on the upper end of the Lower Peninsula, try the Au Sable. I fished it for a couple of summers around 20 years ago in the Stephen’s Bridge area. There was a *great* Trico hatch in mid/late July in the early AM. (We’re talking 16"+ fish on size 24/28 Trico spinners) Later on in the day there was a Slate Wing Olive, (#18), and fish could be caught on terrestrials. Evenings brought the SWO spinner fall, as well as unidentified spinners and some caddis. While I was out there, I was told the Manistee and the Rifle rivers were also good in the summer, but I never fished them.  If the canoe traffic on the main Au Sable is too heavy, (mainly a weekend thing), try the North Branch. Good luck, George Adams

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I live in Lincoln Park, just south of Detroit.  I know I’ll need to do some driving. Jerry

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I just got back from the Manistee River, and you don’t need a boat. Check www.troutbums.com for more info. By the way , I’m just learning fly fishing (don’t care for other kinds) and I caught and released 2 brooks and a brown. If I can do it anyone can. Good luck and enjoy. Monty.

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Try the Au Sable and Manistee as suggested, but also try the Boardman.  It gets very little pressure and has lots of (mostly smaller) fish.  The Boardman is also reported to hold large browns, but night fishing appears to be the key for those. Steve Kling

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Thanks, I think I’ll try the Grayling area first.That will put me near to both the Au Sable and Manistee. Jerry

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– Now booking Cape Cod, MA inshore fly fishing wading trips for stripers for the 97 season. I supply all tackle and flies as well as casting instructions if needed. If you don’t score stripers, I don’t get paid. Fair enough? $125/single $200/two anglers for a full day wading trip. Email me http://www.flyfishing-the-salt.com. Good fishing…Ted Bobetsky

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– Now booking Cape Cod, MA inshore fly fishing wading trips for stripers for the 97 season. I supply all tackle and flies as well as casting instructions if needed. If you don’t score stripers, I don’t get paid. Fair enough? $125/single $200/two anglers for a full day wading trip. Email me http://www.flyfishing-the-salt.com. Email references given upon request. Good fishing…Ted Bobetsky

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Can someone let me know what conditions near State College are now and what they look like for this weekend?

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The area got hit with a lot of rain this past weekend and streams went high again.  The forecast is for rain tonight and tomorrow morning and possible showers for the next few days.  Only if we don’t receive significant precipitation will the streams be fishable. Dave Rothrock

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The area got hit with a lot of rain this past weekend and streams went high again.  The forecast is for rain tonight and tomorrow morning and possible showers for the next few days.  Only if we don’t receive significant precipitation will the streams be fishable. Dave Rothrock

Hi Dave I missed the original post.  What part of PA mare we talking about? If it is central PA (i.e State College area), how has the fishing been so far this spring? Ed Sowinski

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I made a nice find on a low-cost fly-tying storage box.  I bought a Flambeau 22060 toolbox that has six sliding drawers each about 12 by 8 inches.  Two are 3 inches deep and the others 2 inches deep.  The box opens on one side with a fold down panel.  The box is marketed for hand tools so the cost is resonable at $45.  For people with lots of hackes you will need a separate cedar box for storage of those large items.  Compared to nice wooden boxes and cordura/plastic fly tying boxes($100 to 300) this is a cost-effective solution I wanted to share. Question: does anyone have a mail-order source for Lamson reels that have good prices. Kent

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I made a nice find on a low-cost fly-tying storage box.  I bought a Flambeau 22060 toolbox that has six sliding drawers each about 12 by 8 inches.  Two are 3 inches deep and the others 2 inches deep.  The box opens on one side with a fold down panel.  The box is marketed for hand tools so the cost is resonable at $45.  For people with lots of hackes you will need a separate cedar box for storage of those large items.  Compared to nice wooden boxes and cordura/plastic fly tying boxes($100 to 300) this is a cost-effective solution I wanted to share.

When I was growing up, my Dad had a room with bookshelves filled with 1-gallon glass jars (from commercial kitchen quantities of mayonaise, mustard, ketchup, relish…) filled with cured necks, elk and deer body fur, dyed deer tails, polar bear fur, calves tails, squirrel tails, peacock eyes, yarns, etc.  He had friends who hunted and fished and he would trade flies he tied for furs and feathers they got hunting.  Also, it used to get us kids upset because we could never pass a roadkill without Dad wanting to get out and cut the tail or something.  His collection has dwindled over the years but the idea of using glass bottles to see everything on the shelves is very appealing.  The closed jars keep out bugs and seal in the smell of all the cured flesh, fur and feathers. Dad kept his threads in wooden cigar boxes labeled by color.  He had a boxes for white, black, brown, and misc. colored threads. Each spool had its own bobbin that he hand made from old coat hangers (back when they were of sufficient guage to be worth anything).  He bought head cement in quart tins and poured it, a small amount at a time, to a baby food jar and applied it with a needle stuck eye-end-in to a small piece of wood.   His hackle pliers were made from a coat hanger as well.  He decided on the length of wire needed, flattened out the ends and bent it appropriately.  He then glued two small, thin pieces of rubber (from an old gasket he found) inside the gripping faces for the dual purpose of a better grip on large hackles and to be gentle on delicate hackles.  They worked like a charm. Except for his Universal vice, most of his tools were hand made. Flytying doesn’t have to be an expensive proposition.  A little imagination and craftsmanship is all that is needed.   These days he’s sometimes too slow to react to a rise but he’s still the best fly tier I know of.  I’d rather fish his flies than anyone else’s.   If you don’t lose them in the bushes or in the mouth of that big one you tried to force out of some fast water, you can fish the same fly all day.  Too many times I’ve had to switch flies because one I bought in a shop became unraveled in the mouth of the first trout to hit it. — Steve Hammond                            * ^ // * /     Scientific Computing Division             /* /  _][     National Center for Atmospheric Research, Boulder, CO     ______

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[Original orticle deleted] – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -When I was growing up, my Dad had a room with bookshelves filled with 1-gallon glass jars (from commercial kitchen quantities of mayonaise, mustard, ketchup, relish…) filled with cured necks, elk and deer body fur, dyed deer tails, polar bear fur, calves tails, squirrel tails, peacock eyes, yarns, etc.  He had friends who hunted and fished and he would trade flies he tied for furs and feathers they got hunting.  Also, it used to get us kids upset because we could never pass a roadkill without Dad wanting to get out and cut the tail or something.  His collection has dwindled over the years but the idea of using glass bottles to see everything on the shelves is very appealing.  The closed jars keep out bugs and seal in the smell of all the cured flesh, fur and feathers. Dad kept his threads in wooden cigar boxes labeled by color.  He had a boxes for white, black, brown, and misc. colored threads. Each spool had its own bobbin that he hand made from old coat hangers (back when they were of sufficient guage to be worth anything).  He bought head cement in quart tins and poured it, a small amount at a time, to a baby food jar and applied it with a needle stuck eye-end-in to a small piece of wood.   His hackle pliers were made from a coat hanger as well.  He decided on the length of wire needed, flattened out the ends and bent it appropriately.  He then glued two small, thin pieces of rubber (from an old gasket he found) inside the gripping faces for the dual purpose of a better grip on large hackles and to be gentle on delicate hackles.  They worked like a charm. Except for his Universal vice, most of his tools were hand made. Flytying doesn’t have to be an expensive proposition.  A little imagination and craftsmanship is all that is needed.   These days he’s sometimes too slow to react to a rise but he’s still the best fly tier I know of.  I’d rather fish his flies than anyone else’s.   If you don’t lose them in the bushes or in the mouth of that big one you tried to force out of some fast water, you can fish the same fly all day.  Too many times I’ve had to switch flies because one I bought in a shop became unraveled in the mouth of the first trout to hit it.

Wonderful and wonderfully written rememberance of a classic fly tier! No fishing father could hope for better than this kind of education for and memory from his son.  Well said Steve! — Steve Hammond                            * ^ // * /     Scientific Computing Division                 /* /  _][     National Center for Atmospheric Research, Boulder, CO     ______

Dr. James B. Comly (Jim)        Physicist, Artificial Intelligence 1 River Road                    Phone: (518)387-5920 Schenectady, NY 12301           Fax:   (518)387-6845

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From root Fri Mar 26 08:16:39 1993 Received: from macadam.mpce.mq.edu.au by galen.med.Virginia.EDU (AIX 3.1/UCB 5.61/1.34) Received: from ipc15.mpce.mq.edu.au by macadam.mpce.mq.edu.au (5.64+/1.1) Received: by ipc15.mpce.mq.edu.au.mpce.mq.edu.au (5.64+/SMI-4.1) Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing Organization: Macquarie University, School of Mathematics, Physics, Computing and Electronics Status: OR – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -What is a flathead? Jit Keith Boyd writes: Damn, don’t they have dictionary’s where you are??  Or are you just too lazy to look it up??   Flathead Catfish – (Plyodictis olivaris) – a large yellowish brown-mottled catfish of the central and Gulf States.   Taken from Webster’s Ninth Coll. (and no they don’t meow, they have "whiskers") Keith And no, the "whiskers" won’t sting ya’…… unless, of course, you’re wading and fly fishing! bobby — "I have been told that men are natural warriors and killers and that women are naturally kind, natural mothers, the protectors of stray cats and waifs." – Jack O’Connor – Complete Book of Shooting – 1965

Yo Bobby,         You might want to post this since I can’t, i only have read access to the net, but I thought I might enlighten you about the Australian Flathead.         It is no relation to any catfish we have but is (if you know where to go) a rather large, good fighting and good eating fish, with dangerously sharp spikes on the sides of it’s  head that can rip flesh to pieces, so so much for the quote they won’t sting,         but if you ever get the chance to chase some of our flathead, it’s one of the best fishing experiences you’ll get down here. Rob McNaught. * I’m not crazy                          * Robert McNaught.                    * * is insane.                             *                                     * — "I have been told that men are natural warriors and killers and that women are naturally kind, natural mothers, the protectors of stray cats and waifs." – Jack O’Connor – Complete Book of Shooting – 1965

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -From root Fri Mar 26 08:16:39 1993 Received: from macadam.mpce.mq.edu.au by galen.med.Virginia.EDU (AIX 3.1/UCB 5.61/1.34) Received: from ipc15.mpce.mq.edu.au by macadam.mpce.mq.edu.au (5.64+/1.1) Received: by ipc15.mpce.mq.edu.au.mpce.mq.edu.au (5.64+/SMI-4.1) Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing Organization: Macquarie University, School of Mathematics, Physics, Computing and Electronics Status: OR What is a flathead? Jit Keith Boyd writes: Damn, don’t they have dictionary’s where you are??  Or are you just too lazy to look it up??

*  Kieth:  If you are so damned hot with a Webster’s, learn how to spell.                      It’s "dictionaries" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Flathead Catfish – (Plyodictis olivaris) – a large yellowish brown-mottled catfish of the central and Gulf States.   Taken from Webster’s Ninth Coll. (and no they don’t meow, they have "whiskers") Keith And no, the "whiskers" won’t sting ya’…… unless, of course, you’re wading and fly fishing! bobby — "I have been told that men are natural warriors and killers and that women are naturally kind, natural mothers, the protectors of stray cats and waifs." – Jack O’Connor – Complete Book of Shooting – 1965 Yo Bobby,    You might want to post this since I can’t, i only have read access to the net, but I thought I might enlighten you about the Australian Flathead.    It is no relation to any catfish we have but is (if you know where to go) a rather large, good fighting and good eating fish, with dangerously sharp spikes on the sides of it’s  head that can rip flesh to pieces, so so much for the quote they won’t sting,    but if you ever get the chance to chase some of our flathead, it’s one of the best fishing experiences you’ll get down here. Rob McNaught. * I’m not crazy                          * Robert McNaught.                    * * is insane.                             *                                     * — "I have been told that men are natural warriors and killers and that women are naturally kind, natural mothers, the protectors of stray cats and waifs." – Jack O’Connor – Complete Book of Shooting – 1965

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