Question:

yep agree completely…as a newbie to the sport I finally got serious and traded in the 7 wt telephone pole and now use a nice Redington actually it was a gift from a friend. I have practised with that sucker and gone to some classes and it certainly does help with a newer model and constant practise I agree whole heartedly with your assesment and here on the Bow River you NEED practise. but then the rewards are great! Pierre – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well I had to take a second look at my casting when I got and Orvis Trident 6wt. after sending in my PM10 to be repaired (broken tip) They took over a month so they gave me an upgrade in the form of the new Trident. I tried the Trident and decided I liked the PM10 better, it hid my mistakes but when I told the fly shop guy I liked the PM10 better he said most people really don’t know how to cast but if I still wanted a PM10 again I could trade back. I got slightly offended but decided to give it another chance, I looked back through the magazine casting tips and practiced. I am by no means the best and real instruction would help me alot but I can fish trout here in Colo half a day making 10′ – 30′ then fish bass or whatever using heavy patterns at long distances the rest of the day. I find simple mistakes make a difference like for acccuracy having the right foot forward I look at others casting and many have thier feet together  or they move thier bodies too much during a short cast, or people making too many false casts when going for distance with too much line out to control. Sometimes when everything is working right I don’t have to think about casting, I just do it and it reminds me of some type of dance or martial arts where everything is smooth and rythmic and as fast or slow short or long as it needs to be. Onew thing I know is if you have to work too hard with the right equiptment you are to blame. If not for the guy at the fly shop I would still be making the same mistakes that my teaching myself to cast has caused. Enjoy… nyroc.rr.com… IMHO, the importantance of casting accurately far exceeds the ability to cast distance. Recently I read an article where the author has that same opinion. However, I’d like to share the authors definition of casting accuracy and hear your comments. Here is the section of the article in which the author provides his/her (author is unknown) definition. Also, note the title of the article: "YOU CAN’T CAST! …. between 70 & 80% of fly fishers just can’t cast. Very simply put … putting the fly where it belongs. The question is…"Can you put your fly where you want it 85% of the time?" If you can’t, then you can’t cast! A good test for casting ability is to put a 24" circle at about 30 feet and see how many times you can put the fly in the circle. The 30 foot range is about the average cast you might make when fishing for trout. Even with a breeze, getting the fly in the circle 9 out of 10 casts is possible". Now I’ve participated in several similar exercises at which there were about 20 flyfishers, guides, casting instructors and fly fishing retailers. I will withhold the results of those experiences until after you ROFFians have a chance to express your opinions. I hope you who reply base your opinions on experience rather then wishful thinking or ego. So let’s hear it. Using typical trout equipment for a medium stream, how many can drop a fly within 12 inches of the center of a 24 inch circle while standing about 30′ away, knee deep or deeper in a stream/river in typical trout season weather? Hi Allan, the author is perfectly correct, as indeed you are. Accuracy is of paramount importance.   We now regularly hold special casting clinics here at one of my local clubs. The first one we held, some years ago, was a cast-in for the whole area, as further instructors were needed at many clubs in order to comply with the German fishing laws that casting skill of a certain level must be achieved before a licence is granted.  We had one hundred and forty three casters taking part on this particular day, all wanting to obtain an instructors certificate. ( The instructors certificate is considerably more difficult to obtain than the licence itself ). This is all honorary, and no financial reward etc is attached to the licence, and it is only valid for instruction at a state fisheries exam so nothing can be made from it either in financial terms. The emphasis is on accuracy, and control. Distance casting is not required. In the accuracy test,  points are given for casting at various distances to a series of rings the inner ring of which is ten inches in diameter, and progresses out to 120 inches in diameter.  The rings are laid out on grass, and carefully measured. The inner ring is ten points, each subsequent ring of greater diameter one point less, and there are five rings. Ten casts are allowed, there is no time limit, or limit on false casts etc.  There are no restrictions on rods, lines leader length etc ( some were using four foot leaders !!! ).The minimum requirement to obtain a fishing licence is 30 points.  The instructors requirement is 45 points.  Of all the gentlemen who cast on this occasion, many of whom had been fishing for a long time, in some cases twenty years and more, and considered themselves good casters, only three, including myself and my wife ( who was the only woman present ), managed to reach or exceed the minimum instructors requirements at first. Many complained that there was a crosswind, and for this reason they were unable to cast. After eleven  casters had cast  ( including myself and my wife ) the complaints were so loud, that the state judges moved the casting blocks so that the relatively slight wind was from behind the casters.  My wife and I and one other caster were asked if we would mind casting again under the better conditions, although we had met the necessary requirements. We agreed to do so.  Many people had also in the meantime apparently complained that my wife and I were using "English methods ", which was unfair !!!!   And now for the results: In the first round ( with cross wind ) I cast 87  and my wife cast 81 points, the other caster who was asked to cast again cast 57 points. No other caster achieved more than thirty points, some missing the target all together. In the second round,  after the blocks were moved, I cast 94 points my wife 87 points, one other gentleman cast 67 points, and only three others reached the minimum 45 points required for an instructors certificate, some in fact not even managing the thirty points required for a normal fishing licence although all those present already posessed one ), and quite a few missing the target altogether. I wish to stress here that this is not a competition, it is a state fisheries law requirement that instructors reach a certain level of expertise, and that would be anglers also reach a minimum of casting skill before being granted a licence. This is of course in addition to the theoretical written exam requirements. The standard of casting was appalling, and many who were certain that they were excellent casters got very pissed off indeed when they saw their actual results.  Quite a few of those present came over to talk to myself and my wife after the exam was over, and wanted advice and instruction.  Several points arose from this: None of those present had had any decent formal instruction, but had "taught themselves", or "been taught by a friend". Most of the equipment in use was mismatched, and in most cases far too heavy for normal trout  fishing, #7 sinking lines and 10 foot rods like broomsticks being fairly common. A few people had fairly decent rods, but the lines were so hopelessly mismatched that it was well nigh impossible to cast with them. Every single one of those present had hopelessly overestimated their abilities, and this was a shock to most of them. We were asked to do a demo for quite a few of the people who stayed around, and strangely enough, although it had just been amply demonstrated to all present that their accuracy and general casting was abysmal, the most asked question was "how can I increase my casting distance". We did a quick survey of those present, ( about forty people ), asking them how far they could cast, and noted the results. These were checked with a tape measure afterwards as each person cast.  Every single person present overestimated their distance capabilities sometimes by twenty feet or even in some cases appreciably more. We set up an area and did a few distance casts with gear I had in the car, and then watched as a few very nearly bust their guts trying to reach anything like the distance.  Only one of those present was familiar with the double haul, and he was lousy at it.  Quite a few others got quite angry, saying I and my wife must be using "tricks" or "special rods " or "lines" or that we were "professionals from England" or something. Over the years in the UK and here I have seen many people casting, and the general standards are awful.  It is a very sobering experience for many to try the exercise you mention in your  post under controlled conditions. What is even stranger is that even lousy casters are proud of their supposed abilities, and get very upset indeed when shown that it is not as good as they would like to believe. A matter of misplaced pride I believe. The reluctance to take lessons, or be shown anything is also rather remarkable. You are more likely to anger somebody by casting better

… read more »

Response:

If my fly lands in water I declare it a direct hit. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Response:

If my fly lands in water I declare it a direct hit.

Seems reasonable Tim, better than landing in a tree anyway, but not necessarily better than landing in a bush ! TL MC

Response:

I’m pretty good at stretching my backcast 1/2" too far to catch the tip of the last branch of the last bush on the bank. I’d say that’s pretty accurate…

I hear ya…it takes supreme accuracy and nerves of steel to lose 3 double rigged dropper setups in the exact same branch 3 casts in a row after missing a nice one (fish). — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Response:

If my fly lands in water I declare it a direct hit. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

_______  I was prepared to read something more recondite regarding your casting in the woods.

Response:

My talent precisely.  In fact, I also seem to have an uncanny ability for tying superb knots with my airborne leader and fly around the very same branch. Bob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m pretty good at stretching my backcast 1/2" too far to catch the tip of the last branch of the last bush on the bank. I’d say that’s pretty accurate… JonCook. — Fishermen kill fish. This is who we are.

Response:

_______  I was prepared to read something more recondite regarding your casting in the woods.

        boy, asadi, you have shit in your hat now.  wait ’til george finds out you have posted under his name without proper accreditation! wayno

Response:

Mike,   Your post should serve as a wake up call to all of us who still have some freedom in fishing.  I am certain if PETA was given a free hand there would be none.

These sort of restrictions -doubtless spawned by humane motivations- would drive me utterly insane. Nothing that Mike Connor has posted on these subjects has done anything than fill me with dread for the future. I have been a Euro-sceptic since the great con of 1974 and that ’scepticism’ has deepened into downright mistrust. I am amazed that such an evidently free spirit as MC can stand it! Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

Tony, these measures are not European measures, but local German measures. There’s no European legislation on sportsfishing (yet). Cheers, Herman These sort of restrictions -doubtless spawned by humane motivations- would drive me utterly insane. Nothing that Mike Connor has posted on these subjects has done anything than fill me with dread for the future. I have been a Euro-sceptic since the great con of 1974 and that ’scepticism’ has deepened into downright mistrust. I am amazed that such an evidently free spirit as MC can stand it! Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

<SNIP Tony, as far as I am aware most of these regulations are specific to Germany. No other European country has such regulations "yet". Germany is continually being cited all over Europe as the "enlightened forerunner" with regard to pollution, animal rights, etc etc. Although I do not know all of the different countries regulations of course. I cant stand it !  But I have no choice, I live here ! TL MC

Response:

Big deal.  I can tie knots that would make ol’ King Gordius proud around my rod which end up requiring the Alexandrian solution. — Bob Jarvis Mail address hacked to foil spammers! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My talent precisely.  In fact, I also seem to have an uncanny ability for tying superb knots with my airborne leader and fly around the very same branch. Bob I’m pretty good at stretching my backcast 1/2" too far to catch the tip of the last branch of the last bush on the bank. I’d say that’s pretty accurate… JonCook. — Fishermen kill fish. This is who we are.

Response:

Well I had to take a second look at my casting when I got and Orvis Trident 6wt. after sending in my PM10 to be repaired (broken tip) They took over a month so they gave me an upgrade in the form of the new Trident. I tried the Trident and decided I liked the PM10 better, it hid my mistakes but when I told the fly shop guy I liked the PM10 better he said most people really don’t know how to cast but if I still wanted a PM10 again I could trade back.   I got slightly offended but decided to give it another chance, I looked back through the magazine casting tips and practiced. I am by no means the best and real instruction would help me alot but I can fish trout here in Colo half a day making 10′ – 30′ then fish bass or whatever using heavy patterns at long distances the rest of the day. I find simple mistakes make a difference like for acccuracy having the right foot forward I look at others casting and many have thier feet together  or they move thier bodies too much during a short cast, or people making too many false casts when going for distance with too much line out to control. Sometimes when everything is working right I don’t have to think about casting, I just do it and it reminds me of some type of dance or martial arts where everything is smooth and rythmic and as fast or slow short or long as it needs to be. Onew thing I know is if you have to work too hard with the right equiptment you are to blame. If not for the guy at the fly shop I would still be making the same mistakes that my teaching myself to cast has caused. Enjoy…     – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -nyroc.rr.com… IMHO, the importantance of casting accurately far exceeds the ability to cast distance. Recently I read an article where the author has that same opinion. However, I’d like to share the authors definition of casting accuracy and hear your comments. Here is the section of the article in which the author provides his/her (author is unknown) definition. Also, note the title of the article: "YOU CAN’T CAST! …. between 70 & 80% of fly fishers just can’t cast. Very simply put … putting the fly where it belongs. The question is…"Can you put your fly where you want it 85% of the time?" If you can’t, then you can’t cast! A good test for casting ability is to put a 24" circle at about 30 feet and see how many times you can put the fly in the circle. The 30 foot range is about the average cast you might make when fishing for trout. Even with a breeze, getting the fly in the circle 9 out of 10 casts is possible". Now I’ve participated in several similar exercises at which there were about 20 flyfishers, guides, casting instructors and fly fishing retailers. I will withhold the results of those experiences until after you ROFFians have a chance to express your opinions. I hope you who reply base your opinions on experience rather then wishful thinking or ego. So let’s hear it. Using typical trout equipment for a medium stream, how many can drop a fly within 12 inches of the center of a 24 inch circle while standing about 30′ away, knee deep or deeper in a stream/river in typical trout season weather? Hi Allan, the author is perfectly correct, as indeed you are. Accuracy is of paramount importance.   We now regularly hold special casting clinics here at one of my local clubs. The first one we held, some years ago, was a cast-in for the whole area, as further instructors were needed at many clubs in order to comply with the German fishing laws that casting skill of a certain level must be achieved before a licence is granted.  We had one hundred and forty three casters taking part on this particular day, all wanting to obtain an instructors certificate. ( The instructors certificate is considerably more difficult to obtain than the licence itself ). This is all honorary, and no financial reward etc is attached to the licence, and it is only valid for instruction at a state fisheries exam so nothing can be made from it either in financial terms. The emphasis is on accuracy, and control. Distance casting is not required. In the accuracy test,  points are given for casting at various distances to a series of rings the inner ring of which is ten inches in diameter, and progresses out to 120 inches in diameter.  The rings are laid out on grass, and carefully measured. The inner ring is ten points, each subsequent ring of greater diameter one point less, and there are five rings. Ten casts are allowed, there is no time limit, or limit on false casts etc.  There are no restrictions on rods, lines leader length etc ( some were using four foot leaders !!! ).The minimum requirement to obtain a fishing licence is 30 points.  The instructors requirement is 45 points.  Of all the gentlemen who cast on this occasion, many of whom had been fishing for a long time, in some cases twenty years and more, and considered themselves good casters, only three, including myself and my wife ( who was the only woman present ), managed to reach or exceed the minimum instructors requirements at first. Many complained that there was a crosswind, and for this reason they were unable to cast. After eleven  casters had cast  ( including myself and my wife ) the complaints were so loud, that the state judges moved the casting blocks so that the relatively slight wind was from behind the casters.  My wife and I and one other caster were asked if we would mind casting again under the better conditions, although we had met the necessary requirements. We agreed to do so.  Many people had also in the meantime apparently complained that my wife and I were using "English methods ", which was unfair !!!!   And now for the results: In the first round ( with cross wind ) I cast 87  and my wife cast 81 points, the other caster who was asked to cast again cast 57 points. No other caster achieved more than thirty points, some missing the target all together. In the second round,  after the blocks were moved, I cast 94 points my wife 87 points, one other gentleman cast 67 points, and only three others reached the minimum 45 points required for an instructors certificate, some in fact not even managing the thirty points required for a normal fishing licence although all those present already posessed one ), and quite a few missing the target altogether. I wish to stress here that this is not a competition, it is a state fisheries law requirement that instructors reach a certain level of expertise, and that would be anglers also reach a minimum of casting skill before being granted a licence. This is of course in addition to the theoretical written exam requirements. The standard of casting was appalling, and many who were certain that they were excellent casters got very pissed off indeed when they saw their actual results.  Quite a few of those present came over to talk to myself and my wife after the exam was over, and wanted advice and instruction.  Several points arose from this: None of those present had had any decent formal instruction, but had "taught themselves", or "been taught by a friend". Most of the equipment in use was mismatched, and in most cases far too heavy for normal trout  fishing, #7 sinking lines and 10 foot rods like broomsticks being fairly common. A few people had fairly decent rods, but the lines were so hopelessly mismatched that it was well nigh impossible to cast with them. Every single one of those present had hopelessly overestimated their abilities, and this was a shock to most of them. We were asked to do a demo for quite a few of the people who stayed around, and strangely enough, although it had just been amply demonstrated to all present that their accuracy and general casting was abysmal, the most asked question was "how can I increase my casting distance". We did a quick survey of those present, ( about forty people ), asking them how far they could cast, and noted the results. These were checked with a tape measure afterwards as each person cast.  Every single person present overestimated their distance capabilities sometimes by twenty feet or even in some cases appreciably more. We set up an area and did a few distance casts with gear I had in the car, and then watched as a few very nearly bust their guts trying to reach anything like the distance.  Only one of those present was familiar with the double haul, and he was lousy at it.  Quite a few others got quite angry, saying I and my wife must be using "tricks" or "special rods " or "lines" or that we were "professionals from England" or something. Over the years in the UK and here I have seen many people casting, and the general standards are awful.  It is a very sobering experience for many to try the exercise you mention in your  post under controlled conditions. What is even stranger is that even lousy casters are proud of their supposed abilities, and get very upset indeed when shown that it is not as good as they would like to believe. A matter of misplaced pride I believe. The reluctance to take lessons, or be shown anything is also rather remarkable. You are more likely to anger somebody by casting better and showing them how, than you are to elicit gratitude. Women by the way being generally far easier to teach than men in my experience. ( I taught my wife as well ). I would imagine that the casting abilities of the average fly-angler in the States is not much better than that detailed above either. I would suggest as well that anybody wishing to improve as an angler should practice dropping his fly into a bucket or similar, or even a hula hoop at various measured ranges up to say forty feet. If you can do this consistently then distance will never be a problem for you, and you will certainly catch more fish. Tight lines ! Mike Connor

Response:

Hi Mike, Can you please explain the reasoning behind this requirement?! Surely, if one is a crap caster, one merely fails to catch many/any fish?! No one suffers, least of all the fish! It’s not like a driving or a flying licence where the safety of the driver/pilot and others is a stake. There is much that I find daft and barmy about German fishery laws (as you have been kind enough to vouchsafe to us): this, not the least of it. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Hi Tony, One of the reasons for the complex fishery laws is the fact that they are also affected by a number of laws not directly connected with actual fishing. Just to give you an example for instance, nobody in Germany under the age of 16 years may hold a fishing or hunting licence, as it is illegal for a minor to be involved in the killing of a vertebrate animal.  This means minors may not go fishing at all except when accompanied by a licence holding adult, and they are still not allowed to catch and dispatch fish. Rights of access are complicated, Animal rights issues, environment conservation, fish recognition, habitat knowledge,  ethics and the law, rights of acquisition, size limits, closed seasons, sanctuary rules, how to kill a vertebrate animal humanely, and a host of other subjects are covered in the theoretical instruction prior to the angling examination. At the moment a minimum of thirty six hours theoretical instruction is mandatory,  and one must of course pass the written test at the end of this. The instruction includes fishery laws, environmental laws, animal rights laws, and a great deal of other stuff. Assuming you do your homework well, and get all the necessary info and literature together, it is possible to manage this in the minimum allotted time, but only just barely. For most people they must reckon with three to six months hard slog before they can take the test. The mandatory instruction is usually carried out on the premises of a local school etc, on the basis of four or five hours, a couple of evenings a week for six weeks or so. Casting and other tuition is extra, depending on the licence one wishes to obtain.  A "normal" fishing licence for general bait fishing requires that you pass several tests and the written exam.  If you wish to go "spinfishing", extra tests and stricter rules are applied. If you want to go fly-fishing, you must first have passed all the other tests, and may then take the fly-fishing test.  Upon passing the tests you have chosen, either one, two or all, you then receive a "Sportfisherpass" as proof that you passed the tests. This must be carried at all times along with the state fishing licence you may then apply for, as well as identification in the form of passport or ID card. The whole thing is very cheap, and theoretically you could pass the exam for as little as thirty marks ( about ten quid )you must then obtain a  licence on the strength of this. These vary from state to state at the moment, as specific fishery laws lie in the hands of federal state government. The licence itself costs about ten quid, and in some states you must pay this every year or at regular intervals. Other country-wide laws override some state laws, but not in all states, and some states laws are different to others. As it happens my licence is valid for life. No clubs will admit anglers to their ranks without a licence, and a "sportfischerpass" which you receive when you pass the exam, detailing the disciplines you have successfully passed . You are only allowed to do the type of fishing for which you have a valid "sportfischerpass"  this includes angling in coastal waters by the way, A sportfischerpass and licence is mandatory everywhere in Germany for residents, even on put and take ponds. Non residents, i.e. Tourists may obtain temporary licences, if they produce proof that they hold or held a licence elsewhere,but they are unlikely to be able to do much fishing as for nearly all clubs now the "sportfischerpass" is mandatory. Some clubs may make exceptions and allow "guests" who are accompanied by a member. This may be in the form of a restricted "day ticket" type of thing, or in some clubs it is free, but whatever the guest catches is subtracted from the members quota. In one of my clubs the yearly quota for a member is a maximum forty fish per year. These may be Salmon Trout Grayling or Seatrout, or any combination of these fish, a maximum of four fish per day is allowed. Takeable fish must be immediately humanely killed and taken. The fishing day must be entered into the "catch book" which is also a mandatory requirement of most clubs, before fishing commences, and this must be carried at all times with the other documents listed above, and with a current copy of the fishery rules, fish taken must also be immediately entered into this book.  Possession of fish not entered is proof of "poaching", and will inevitably result in expulsion from the club, being charged in court, and automatic loss of fishing licence for life. It is considered very bad form to fish yourself when you have a guest, but it is not forbidden. Most other transgressions etc carry heavy punishments, and there are plenty of AR nuts there to make sure every angler who transgresses is dragged into court. The reasons usually given for all this are also complex.  But I will give it a try ! First it must be ensured that every angler is a responsible person, and has sufficient knowledge to carry out his pastime without breaking any laws or injuring anybody else.  In Germany if you damage another person or his property either wilfully or otherwise, you are personally responsible, no matter how the damage came about.  Most sensible anglers in Germany are insured against this, many through their clubs, which obtain special rates, though at the moment it is not mandatory. A certain level of casting expertise, and knowledge of relevant laws supposedly lowers the likelihood of anybody being injured or wrongfully molested. All waters in Germany are divided into contiguous "sections", irrespective of who owns them. Most still waters are considered single "sections", and there are private "put and  take" ponds which are the exclusive property of their owners to do with as they see fit. These sections are leased by the state fishery boards to clubs for a minimum of twelve years, the club being chosen which is in the greater public interest for that area, and local clubs being given first bite at the cherry. The board of owners, ( if several owners own that section), or even the single owner has a very restricted influence on who gets the lease, and also a restricted right to vote on prices etc. All clubs must be open to anybody who has a licence, or their chances of getting any water are zero.  No fishing rights are owned by private individuals. ( Except the put and takes already mentioned ). Some clubs regulate their membership by keeping the prices up, as the club subscriptions are set by the club committee and by general and open vote at the AGM of the club. Clubs may also set any restrictions they like over and above the normal fishery laws, but they may not set any lawful restrictions aside. One of my clubs for instance is fly only on the two rivers we lease, barbless hooks are mandatory, hook size is restricted, multiple hooks are forbidden, one fly only may be used at any one time, no other type of fishing is allowed. Catch and release is generally illegal. Put and take as it is generally understood elsewhere is also basically illegal but is tolerated to some extent, ( the letter of the law states that it is illegal to release a fish purely for the purpose of catching it, this is cruel and unnecessary ), is however under increasing pressure from AR organisations and the "greens" who favour the AR groups. Clubs must have a certain structure consisting of trained and examined personnel, before they can operate or obtain water. This usually means a fisheries officer per/ certain number of members, a bailiff / per certain number of members, an environmental officer, trained and examined fisheries personnel who may then be licensed to use fisheries equipment, such as electro-equipment, a training officer, a chairman, a treasurer, and all the other usual officers found on a committee. The clubs may ask for assistance from the local state fisheries board in some cases,  but are basically responsible for stocking maintaining and supervising the water themselves. Special licences are required in order to carry out certain operations, for instance re-introducing reared fingerling sea-trout, catching and stripping mature sea-trout for the purposes of breeding, and various other operations. All posts in the club are voluntary, and the incumbents are voted in or out at the AGM

Question:

I hear Monica Lewinsky is an established "fly" fisher . Geez do I need to go fishing . Rain , rain go away , come back when I have to go to work Monday !!!

Response:

I understand she is a catch and release ‘fly fisher’! — Good fishing, and may your fish be as big as your tales!

Response:

I understand she is a catch and release ‘fly fisher’! — Good fishing, and may your fish be as big as your tales!

For the most part Bob , although Kenn Starr found a bunch of little fishes in one of her dresses that she took home . But that was probably an isolated incident .

Response:

Bassndood: You and Bob realize that Ken Starr & Linda Tripp are the same person don’t you? See http://members.aol.com/scarien/rockford.htm Cliff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I understand she is a catch and release ‘fly fisher’! — Good fishing, and may your fish be as big as your tales! For the most part Bob , although Kenn Starr found a bunch of little fishes in one of her dresses that she took home . But that was probably an isolated incident .

Response:

I have made a new page about fishing. At this site can you find tips, trics and much more. And now I wanna start about flyfishing. Has someone tips or trics for my page at http://fishingsite.mypage.org You can e-mail me too.

Response:

Question:

This topic may have been discussed here before, but… Like most people, I spot dead animals by the roads all the time. Squirrels are a dime a dozen, and just this morning I saw a fox lying frozen in the ditch. Seems like this is a lot of great fly tying fur going to waste! (Most carcasses end up at a local rendering plant around here.) Especially that fox…I hate the idea of letting all that beautiful fur go to waste. (I’m sure the fox would approve of his fur being used for flies rather than as pig chow.)

Scott, I’ll second the notion of Mike O’Connor about Eric Leiser’s book. Also his site does a great job of explaining to a novice how to prepare roadkill. I wrote Eric Leiser years ago (early 80s) about using American Oppossum (commonly known as ‘possums) in flies. I got back a nice note (which I kept!) saying he had seen some very nice streamers using ‘possum. He said you could dye it colors if need be. He compared it to a "soft but still lustrous polar bear." Given the number of ‘possums that I see dead on the road I think I will have to start carrying some rubber gloves, a sharp knife and some Ziplok bags. Since I usually have to wear a suit to work that should be an interesting picture.<g’ -John

Response:

I wrote Eric Leiser years ago (early 80s) about using American Oppossum (commonly known as ‘possums) in flies. I got back a nice note (which I kept!) saying he had seen some very nice streamers using ‘possum. He said you could dye it colors if need be. He compared it to a "soft but still lustrous polar bear." Given the number of ‘possums that I see dead on the road I think I will have to start carrying some rubber gloves, a sharp knife and some Ziplok bags. Since I usually have to wear a suit to work that should be an interesting picture.<g’ -John

‘Possums – 325 million years of evolution, targeted at becoming roadkill. Ain’t nature mysterious! RMF

Response:

Last year, I spotted a large bird carcass by the side of the road. Thinking it was a goose, I swung around and pulled over. Well, it was actually a great blue herron which had been hit by a car and killed! I threw the whole thing in the back of my Subaru and took it home (my 10-year-old son loved it when I pulled it out and chased him with it! <g). Then, of course, I discovered that having a herron carcass was as illegal as owning a bald eagle skin. So much for a lifetime supply of salmon and steelhead flies! I called the local DNR office and turned the carcass in. Dave McCarty

Response:

I once published a piece in Rod and Reel (March 1985?) called "Roadkill Streamers" ..the best streamer fur I’m aware of is marmot: IE western woodchuck. How close marmots are or are not to eastern woodchucks I don’t know. But there is at least one big difference:    Unlike a woodchuck, the skin  of a marmot peels off like a rabbit skin–with no greasy fat adhering to the hide. Better yet, marmot fur has color-banded shades of gray-to-cree-brown, so it automatically looks a lot like a sculpin. Hard stuff to beat. I don’t bother with borax or multi-step tanning processes, all you need to do is strip off the fur and salt it a little.    Last note: marmot fur is so easy to peel off, it’s not a big trick to skewer a strip of fresh marmot skin on hook, add a split shot to the leader, and fish almost instantly. Is that bait fishing? Guess it is. I tried it once….didn’t seem to work any better tho. — /* Sandy Pittendrigh                  –oO0  * http://www.nervana.montana.edu/~sandy  */

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Keep new skins seperate from the rest of your materials until you are certain no pests are feeding off your new found treasure.  Freeze it for a few days to be on the safe side.

I just read in the current American Angler that freezing does not kill destructive insect larvae. The article recommends microwaving on high for 10 to 15 seconds, heating in an oven at 160 degrees for two or three hours, or exposing to sunlight. — something bogus to avoid spam)

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Keep new skins seperate from the rest of your materials until you are certain no pests are feeding off your new found treasure.  Freeze it for a few days to be on the safe side. I just read in the current American Angler that freezing does not kill destructive insect larvae. The article recommends microwaving on high for 10 to 15 seconds, heating in an oven at 160 degrees for two or three hours, or exposing to sunlight. — something bogus to avoid spam)

I douse the freshly dead animals ( either road kills or from local hunters ) with a powerful disinfectant spray, ( do not use disinfectant  with bleach additives ! ) and leave them for a short while. Then wearing gloves, I skin the animals, which should be as fresh as possible, using a very sharp scalpel ( just did two foxes which were about a week old ! Bloody awful job ! )  salt the skin liberally with a 1:1 mix of ordinary salt and borax, with a few crystals of napthalene added  ( crushed mothballs ), and then leave to dry in a cool dry place. Some skins I nail stretched to a board with galvanised nails ( stops skin and fur discolouration at the nailing point ). When dry, I rinse off the salt, and  wash the skins with ordinary soap powder (as used in the home washing machine), in the bathtub and spread on clean newspaper to dry.  When completely dry ( the skin feels like dry parchment to the touch ), place in an airtight box with a few mothballs.  I have some skins over twenty years old prepared in this way and they are still perfect.  If you get a good collection of skins ( Hare,  Fox, and Squirrel  is good), you can make up a whole range of wonderful dubbing. Dyeing the skins extends the range even further, and just a couple of skins will last the average tyer a lifetime. Hope this helps. Tight lines ! Mike Connor

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Years ago maybe still  road-kill pheasants were a popular item for fly tying materials in Northern Colorado. Are they still? I havent but in that are in a long time. Al

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The cock Ringneck Pheasant has some of the most varied and interesting feathers for tying that I have seen. — Ernie Harrison <snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think most fly tiers take the Pheasant for granted because they are so common. No definitive line of flies have been invented for the use of pheasant feathers except a few basic ones.  Frankly, its time the inventive nature of the fly tying fraternity gets on the band wagon and start producing fly fishing patterns worth their salt. George

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I’ve used roadkill for fly fur. — Jeff Potter   !.com   delete ‘DELETETHIS!’ to reply ***"Out Your Backdoor": Friendly Magazine of DIY Adventure and Culture        http://www.glpbooks.com/oyb … with a full line of books, bookstore & forum

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Years ago maybe still  road-kill pheasants were a popular item for fly tying materials in Northern Colorado. Are they still? I havent but in that are in a long time. Al

could hope to have.  Between one of these and a hare’s ear mask, is the best of two worlds. I think most fly tiers take the Pheasant for granted because they are so common. No definitive line of flies have been invented for the use of pheasant feathers except a few basic ones.  Frankly, its time the inventive nature of the fly tying fraternity gets on the band wagon and start producing fly fishing patterns worth their salt. George —

Question:

You guys are foolin’ yerselves about the Jeep Cherokee.  It has the absolutely most abyssmal maintenance record of just about any vehicle on earth, 4WD or otherwise. This is Consumer Reports talking..check it out for yourself.  I have known so many disgusted Cherokee owners (well 2, specifically…) that I would not touch one with a 10 foot 12 weight. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

I understand that the Cherokee was never built on a truck chassis, a remanufactured car chassis was used. As for me, my 1978 4×4 Chevy Blazer with 264,000 miles with tattered seats but Michelin radials provides me with all the back country access I could ever want.

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Another dissatisfied Cherokee (1988) owner here.  To be fair, I purchased mine just before American Motors was purchased by Chrysler.  Anyway, the engine crapped out before 50K miles, and it had been cared for in a manner better than was recommended in the owner’s manual.  Also, I had an extended warranty on the vehicle (paid extra for of course).  Anyway, the "adjuster" from Chrysler reviewed my claim and disallowed it because "it was obviously abused or it wouldn’t have had the problem."  Went round and round, countless letters, I replaced the engine (at my cost) and vowed I would never purchase another (now) Chrysler product, ever!!  Later, I read in a news account about the numbers of Jeeps that had similar problems.  I now have a Toyota 4Runner, with no complaints after 90K+ miles.  Change the oil every 3K miles, follow recommended maintenance, new gas once a week and air the tires once a month.  It runs and runs and runs….. — Ron Eaton – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You guys are foolin’ yerselves about the Jeep Cherokee.  It has the absolutely most abyssmal maintenance record of just about any vehicle on earth, 4WD or otherwise. This is Consumer Reports talking..check it out for yourself.  I have known so many disgusted Cherokee owners (well 2, specifically…) that I would not touch one with a 10 foot 12 weight. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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Your brother’s pickup reminds me of a 1970 Datsun pickup I bought in 1980 for $500.  The speedometer had broken at 100K and it was beat up, but the engine purred like a kitten.  It was the same engine they used in the 280Z sports car.  I fixed the dents, slapped a coat of paint on it, installed some shocks, king pins, tires, and a set of brakes, then took it fishing all over the Sierra Nevada Mountains in Northern California for the next ten years.  It went every place a road crossed a trout stream.  There wasn’t much head room and I kept the seat belt tight because the overload springs could put your head through the roof, and I didn’t lean on the door because a sharp bump could put the window crank through your rib cage, but it was a great fishing vehicle.  Finally sold it to a guy for $500 who wanted it for his gardening business. — Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   My brother Paul drives the ultimate fish car. He has a go anywhere, tough as nails, fix it yourself, park it and don’t worry, $700 1967 Ford pickup. The vehicle has panache, driving to the river in it gives me a feeling of adventure

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Could it be that the people who have trouble with Jeeps are the people who actually take them off road?  I know for a fact that the Nort Carolina beaches will wreak havoc on some vehicles!

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Could it be that the people who have trouble with Jeeps are the people who actually take them off road?  I know for a fact that the Nort Carolina beaches will wreak havoc on some vehicles!

I used to take mine off road but don’t so much anymore since I got my D90. The Cherokee did OK off road though. FWIW. Charlie…

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Driving on a salt water beach will raise hell with most vehicles unless you hose it down thoroughly with fresh water when you are through.  We drove down the beach in Northern California to go smelt dipping and perch fishing with a jeep, but always hosed it down and never had a problem.  Of course this was in 1948.:-) — Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Could it be that the people who have trouble with Jeeps are the people who actually take them off road?  I know for a fact that the Nort Carolina beaches will wreak havoc on some vehicles!

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Sorry this message is not related to 4X4’s (but I will be driving a 98 Dodge real soon) rather I wqs wondering if anyone from Alberta"Canada used this newsgroup? And I am in the market for a new 4-5 weight 81/2 foot rod? Any good sug?  Anyway…have fun and may the trout rise…(corny).

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You guys are foolin’ yerselves about the Jeep Cherokee.  It has the absolutely most abyssmal maintenance record of just about any vehicle on earth, 4WD or otherwise. This is Consumer Reports talking..check it out for yourself.  I have known so many disgusted Cherokee owners (well 2, specifically…) that I would not touch one with a 10 foot 12 weight.

Hell I drive a Taurus Sedan myself. It pulls up nicely to the lots that are only a few steps or a short walk down into the stream I seen a neat little comic about 4 wheel drive, something in the order when the guy was ready to pull out of a supermarket, he felt it was time to put it in 4 wd to go over a speed bump.  Sounds like most of the 4wd’s in our area…. — Randy P.E.T.A. people eating tasty animals

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If you want a reliable vehicle buy a Toyota 4WD pickup — Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – While we are back on this, I would recommend looking into the V6 Chevy S-10 Blazer to find a great 4 WD.  $1000 to drop a new engine in at some point (around 120K miles), $600 new ball joints around 150K and that sucker will run forever.)  By one that is used, if you can find someone who will sell one. T. Rick Fletcher  

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My "fish car" is a five year old Toyota 4X4 pickup. Total maintenance costs (so far) consists of oil, filters, and one set of tires. Goes anywhere and always starts.   My wife drives the hated Grand Cherokee. I’d take it fishing if she’d let me, it’s more comfortable and more powerful than my Toyota, and the stereo really cranks. I think the Jeep straight six is one tough motor, it’s the niggling details (power windows, A/C) that keep it in the shop.   My brother Paul drives the ultimate fish car. He has a go anywhere, tough as nails, fix it yourself, park it and don’t worry, $700 1967 Ford pickup. The vehicle has panache, driving to the river in it gives me a feeling of adventure, we’re going FISHING by golly, and we ain’t a couple of downtown dudes in a goll-dern Range Rover. Charlie, going shopping for a beater.

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You guys are foolin’ yerselves about the Jeep Cherokee.  It has the absolutely most abyssmal maintenance record of just about any vehicle on earth, 4WD or otherwise. This is Consumer Reports talking..check it out for yourself.  I have known so many disgusted Cherokee owners (well 2, specifically…) that I would not touch one with a 10 foot 12 weight. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Tim Somehow you didn’t strike me as one who would fall for the hype in CR. You don’t really believe that crap that they spew do you?

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I bought my Grand Cherokee Ltd. in June of ‘94, fully loaded, for 30K (The Toyota Land Cruiser is 40+ K).  Have kept up routine maintenance.  Two major problems have been solved by warranty service.  I got exactly what I thought I’d get.  A luxury ride no matter where I go.  It’ll go anywhere any of the vehicles already mentioned will go. I’ve got the funds to enjoy it, so why shouldn’t I.  Eat your hearts out.                                                            -dnc-

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  I bought my Grand Cherokee Ltd. in June of ‘94, fully loaded, for 30K (The   Toyota Land Cruiser is 40+ K).  Have kept up routine maintenance.  Two   major problems have been solved by warranty service.  I got exactly what I   thought I’d get.  A luxury ride no matter where I go.  It’ll go anywhere   any of the vehicles already mentioned will go.

If this vehicle is so great, why are you bothering to defend it on this anonymous forum?  A 2 year old vehicle with "2 major problems" – by what crazy definition is that a good investment or vehicle?  I’ve got the funds to enjoy it, so why shouldn’t I.  Eat your hearts out.

I didn’t realize that it is required that one has to be a complete ass to buy one of these.   Take this crap over to the 4×4 newsgroups.  It is of no relevance to flyfishing. -tgades — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html email: replace the "this_address_is_wrong" with "tgades"

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You guys are foolin’ yerselves about the Jeep Cherokee.  It has the absolutely most abyssmal maintenance record of just about any vehicle on earth, 4WD or otherwise. This is Consumer Reports talking..check it out for yourself.  I have known so many disgusted Cherokee owners (well 2, specifically…) that I would not touch one with a 10 foot 12 weight.

I don’t read CS but I have an ‘87 Cherokee that is the most trouble free vehicle I have ever owned. Don’t know much about the newer ones but I do know that CS doesn’t have a very good reputation on rec.autos.4×4. YMMV of course. — Charlie…

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You guys are foolin’ yerselves about the Jeep Cherokee.  It has the absolutely most abyssmal maintenance record of just about any vehicle on earth, 4WD or otherwise. This is Consumer Reports talking..check it out for yourself.  I have known so many disgusted Cherokee owners (well 2, specifically…) that I would not touch one with a 10 foot 12 weight. I don’t read CS but I have an ‘87 Cherokee that is the most trouble free vehicle I have ever owned. Don’t know much about the newer ones but I do know that CS doesn’t have a very good reputation on rec.autos.4×4. YMMV of course. — Charlie…

Consumer reports bases it’s ratings on reader responses – ie if you complain to them. Phil Edmonstons "Lemon Aide" guide uses the manufacturers own Maintenance service bulletins that advise dealers exactly what sort of problems are being reported from the field. However this guide is generally negative on the Cherokee. Phil likes to say when confronted by experience like yours Charlie: "goes to prove you can’t always make a bad car!    " Ralph H remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

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Tim, I’ve got a Cherokee that’s a few years old and I’ve had zero problems with it.  The big concern with me was the apparent thinness of the brake rotors that had to be replaced if they were turned too much by over-enthusiastic repairmen.  The 1996 models have thicker rotors that withstand the turning a lot better.  All the Jeep owners that I know love them and the only dis-satisfied owners I know, 3, were Grand Cherokee owners. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is Consumer Reports talking..check it out for yourself.  I have known so many disgusted Cherokee owners (well 2, specifically…) that I would not touch one with a 10 foot 12 weight. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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: I know exactly how you feel.  The funny thing is, I drive a sport utility : vehicle (the loathed Cherokee – actually the cheapest vehicle in it’s : class) – living in Maine, the 4wd comes in very handy, especially getting : to back-county brookie waters.   While we are back on this, I would recommend looking into the V6 Chevy S-10 Blazer to find a great 4 WD.  $1000 to drop a new engine in at some point (around 120K miles), $600 new ball joints around 150K and that sucker will run forever.)  By one that is used, if you can find someone who will sell one. — Rick

Rick, I sold my V-6 Blazer with 139,000 miles to help pay for my Jeep with 50,000 on it.  I owned the Blazer for 9 years, that was long enough.  In the last two years, new ball joints, radiator, gas tank, etc., etc., but never touched the engine or tranny.  I saw the buyer the other day and he said it’s going great. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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You guys are foolin’ yerselves about the Jeep Cherokee.  It has the absolutely most abyssmal maintenance record of just about any vehicle on earth, 4WD or otherwise. This is Consumer Reports talking..check it out for yourself.  I have known so many disgusted Cherokee owners (well 2, specifically…) that I would not touch one with a 10 foot 12 weight. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : I know exactly how you feel.  The funny thing is, I drive a sport utility : vehicle (the loathed Cherokee – actually the cheapest vehicle in it’s : class) – living in Maine, the 4wd comes in very handy, especially getting : to back-county brookie waters.   But isn’t a Lmtd. Ed. Grand SuperDuper Cherokee available?  That’s the one many of us laugh at… and it’s not because it is a waste of metal, it is a pretty automobile… it’s because the idea of taking a leather upholstered, shiny $40,000 car into the mud is silly.  And many view it as posing.  Expalin the number of HumVee’s cruising around Sun Valley… While we are back on this, I would recommend looking into the V6 Chevy S-10 Blazer to find a great 4 WD.  $1000 to drop a new engine in at some point (around 120K miles), $600 new ball joints around 150K and that sucker will run forever.)  By one that is used, if you can find someone who will sell one.

  I will entertain $10,000 for my 87  ;-) Harry

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: I know exactly how you feel.  The funny thing is, I drive a sport utility : vehicle (the loathed Cherokee – actually the cheapest vehicle in it’s : class) – living in Maine, the 4wd comes in very handy, especially getting : to back-county brookie waters.   But isn’t a Lmtd. Ed. Grand SuperDuper Cherokee available?  That’s the one many of us laugh at… and it’s not because it is a waste of metal, it is a pretty automobile… it’s because the idea of taking a leather upholstered, shiny $40,000 car into the mud is silly.  And many view it as posing.  Expalin the number of HumVee’s cruising around Sun Valley… While we are back on this, I would recommend looking into the V6 Chevy S-10 Blazer to find a great 4 WD.  $1000 to drop a new engine in at some point (around 120K miles), $600 new ball joints around 150K and that sucker will run forever.)  By one that is used, if you can find someone who will sell one. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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: I know exactly how you feel.  The funny thing is, I drive a sport utility : vehicle (the loathed Cherokee – actually the cheapest vehicle in it’s : class) – living in Maine, the 4wd comes in very handy, especially getting : to back-county brookie waters.   I too have the loathed Cherokee.  I took a lot of ribbing from my father when I bought it.  He has a pickup.  It ended when I showed him what I paid.  Compared to his full-sized pickup, the Cherokee was practically cheap. I spend a lot of time in the backcountry, can only afford one automobile, and need more passenger space than a pickup. I shopped around, and the Cherokee (not the GRAND Cherokee) is the best value around. Sure, if you never take it off road, you might as well buy a minivan.  Although have you seen the prices on mini-vans – EEK maybe that’s why SUV’s are so popular? My $0.02,      - Ken — Ken Janik Oregon State University Dept of Electrical and Computer Engineering

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. . .  it seems like fly fishing is just another political party. When is the last time that you saw a magazine picture of a fly fisherman in regular clothes with a rod that he got at K-mart? This isn’t to down-talk fly fishing, I love it, but every influence says that it isn’t fly fishing unless you drive a yuppified sport utility with Eddie Bauer, LL Bean or some other clothing manufacturer’s name on the side of it, wear waders,

People who take their fishing values from pictures are like people who value their food according to how it looks in pictures.  Most fly anglers are thinking people, and what thinking person rates enjoyment (music or mountaineering) by photographs? — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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 Its Bryce back to stir up trouble With all of the pictures and other influences, it seems like fly fishing is just another political party. When is the last time that you saw a magazine picture of a fly fisherman in regular clothes with a rod that he got at K-mart?

Yup, I have to confess. Back in 87 my wife and kids gave me a K-Mart Browning 8 1/2 ft. 6 weight for my birthday. It was kinda of hard to act surprised in a good way but I believe I pulled it off. Now I love that rob and there’s not a dab of cork on the thing. I’m off to the Cherokee National Forest next week and guess which rod’s going along——it’s already in the, well, Cherokee. Cheers, Randy Giles

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Hello.  Its Bryce back to stir up trouble With all of the pictures and other influences, it seems like fly fishing is just another political party. When is the last time that you saw a magazine picture of a fly fisherman in regular clothes with a rod that he got at K-mart? This isn’t to down-talk fly fishing, I love it, but every influence says that it isn’t fly fishing unless you drive a yuppified sport utility with Eddie Bauer, LL Bean or some other clothing manufacturer’s name on the side of it, wear waders, have a rod that costs 200 dollars. Oh, and I forgot that it is impossible to catch fish unless you have every new thing on the market. I kno tha there are some who are in it to have a chalenging way of catching fish, but alot of the "fly fishers" are just yuppies. I can tell that most in this newsgroup are not that way, so I want your input. Thanks. BryceC

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Hello.  Its Bryce back to stir up trouble . When is the last time that you saw a magazine picture of a fly fisherman in regular clothes with a rod that he got at K-mart? This isn’t to down-talk fly fishing, I love it, but every influence says that it isn’t fly fishing unless you drive a yuppified sport utility with Eddie Bauer, LL Bean or some other clothing manufacturer’s name on the side of it, wear waders, have a rod that costs 200 dollars. your input. Thanks. BryceC

I know exactly how you feel.  The funny thing is, I drive a sport utility vehicle (the loathed Cherokee – actually the cheapest vehicle in it’s class) – living in Maine, the 4wd comes in very handy, especially getting to back-county brookie waters.  And yes, after 20+ years of fishing with a Shakespeare I bought at K-Mart, it started coming apart at the ferrule, and I went to Beans’s outlet and bought a marked-down Guide rod.  I did have an earlier thread complaining that I’m hard pressed to see the improvement over the Shakespeare, fine equipment can be had without spending a lot of money.  As for the waders, I skip them in the summer, but if I’m not in a boat or canoe this time of year, the water’s too cold without them. The thing that really sets me apart, though, is I still eat trout on occasion. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Question:

I’m planning a mid-March trip to the Eureka area.  Can anybody tell me the name and/or e-mail address of a good fly shop in the area.  What are the current conditions.  Is there a preferred river among the Mad, Eel, Klamath or Smith?  I would appreciate any information from locals or others knowledgeable of the area.

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Check the following site for N. Californaia coast fishing and river information. http://www.northcoastweb.com/fishing/ For fly shop in Eureka check: Eureka Fly Shop 505 H st. Eureka, Ca 707-444-2000 URL:  http://www.northcoastweb.com/fishing/efs/index.htm Mike

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Path:

news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net!news-m01.ny.us.ibm.net!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!arclight. uore gon.edu!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsxfer3.itd.umich.e du!p ortc01.blue.aol.com!newstf02.news.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mai l – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Lines: 7 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com Xref: news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net rec.outdoors.fishing.fly:58966 I’m planning a mid-March trip to the Eureka area.  Can anybody tell me the name and/or e-mail address of a good fly shop in the area.  What are the current conditions.  Is there a preferred river among the Mad, Eel, Klamath or Smith?  I would appreciate any information from locals or others knowledgeable of the area.

Contact Eureka Fly Shop…707-444-2000

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Question:

I would appreciate any response.

Hi there. Stan

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I thought I had seen an article about a fly fishing screensaver.  I would appreciate any response.

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Question:

: What about Rain-X.  It is basically Silicon based with alcohol.  It works : on winshields and I have seen it use on film projectors for similar purposes : "slickening", etc.  It doesn’t hurt the estar of the films so it might not effect : the fly line.  Any thoughts? It’s your flyline. Go ahead and try it out!  I don’t think it would be a good idea for this product. There are just too many flyline dressings out there for a similar cost. Jon Porter

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Been there, done that, works fine, no guilt (what is 1 gram of Armor-All on my line going to hurt???) Multiply that * a couple of million fly fisherpersons..

OK.  2,000 kg of Armor All in 60 Trillion gallons of water = nothing. I’m not insenstive to the need for environmental responsibility, but like everything else, it can be taken to ridiculous extremes.       Gene

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Re: armor all. I have used it for ten years and it is terrific. It still is. I havent noticed any formula change. Its especially great because its so easy to appy, so you can do it streamside if your line starts to get water logged. GREAT STUFF, and 1/4 the price of commercial dressings, some of which are decidedly "armor all-like". Dale Owens

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Anyone ever tried using Armor-all as a flyline dressing? Seems like it would help reduce the friction of the line passing through the guides…

As I recall, Armor-all is petroleum based? Read the label. If you wouldn’t douse your fly line in gasoline to clean it, don’t use it. -David Buschhorn

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Multiply that * a couple of million fly fisherpersons.. OK.  2,000 kg of Armor All in 60 Trillion gallons of water = nothing. I’m not insenstive to the need for environmental responsibility, but like everything else, it can be taken to ridiculous extremes.

I agree Gene. I posted that I used Armorall a couple of days ago and got a couple flames from the eco-correct crowd. I suppose they all ride their bicycles to get to their fishing holes. And I’m sure none of them use lead split shot, right? Dale

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As I recall, Armor-all is petroleum based? Read the label. If you wouldn’t douse your fly line in gasoline to clean it, don’t use it.

Uh, gee, come to think of it, your fly line is "petroleum based" too. I don’t use armor-all on my fly line for the same reason I don’t use it on my car interior.  It makes it look great for a few days, after which it dries out and looks worse than it did in the first place. — -Wayne Trzyna

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Multiply that * a couple of million fly fisherpersons.. OK.  2,000 kg of Armor All in 60 Trillion gallons of water = nothing. I’m not insenstive to the need for environmental responsibility, but like everything else, it can be taken to ridiculous extremes. I agree Gene. I posted that I used Armorall a couple of days ago and got a couple flames from the eco-correct crowd. I suppose they all ride their bicycles to get to their fishing holes. And I’m sure none of them use lead split shot, right? Dale

        well, dale and gene, add the voice of this southern liberal to your chorus of amazement:  how can these people be real.  the  enemy is their republican congressman, not someone who uses amorall on their fly line, auto, hat, or ass.         a. wayne harrison

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Anyone ever tried using Armor-all as a flyline dressing? Seems like it would help reduce the friction of the line passing through the guides… (may not be too environmental-friendly though) — Lockheed Martin EIS Orlando, FL

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 Armor-all as a flyline dressing? No, Frank, not yet, but I use it on my rods.  It prevents  the ‘grabbing & dragging’ of mono in the rain and seems to improve casting accuracy. Grant

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: Anyone ever tried using Armor-all as a flyline dressing? Seems like it : would help reduce the friction of the line passing through the guides… This stuff is very effective as a flyline dressing. The product is a plasticizer, which is good a filling in minor cracks and scuffing on the line. It also does lube the line and make it very slippery. If you have never dressed the line before, you will see an increase in your casting distance. The line may float higher too. : (may not be too environmental-friendly though) The trick here is to buff off the excess with a clean, dry rag. When I apply the stuff to my lines, I use two coats for the first time. Let it dry, and then run it through a rag. This will remove the excess that you would otherwise see as an "oil slick" on the surface of the water. Jon Porter –If you are concerned about enviromentally friendly fishing, try products put out by Loon Outdoors. All their stuff is  earth friendly!

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Been there, done that, works fine, no guilt (what is 1 gram of Armor-All on my line going to hurt???)

Multiply that * a couple of million fly fisherpersons….. "What is 1 gram going to hurt ?" DuPont and Co. 1976 -Dan-

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Been there, done that, works fine, no guilt (what is 1 gram of Armor-All on my line going to hurt???) Multiply that * a couple of million fly fisherpersons….. -Dan-

Then divide it by 10 million miles of stream dispersing that product and factor it by the amount of gasoline you burn getting to your favorite fishing hole to see that theatrics are not a productive use of your time. Charley

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (Frank Hinson) writes: Anyone ever tried using Armor-all as a flyline dressing? Seems like it would help reduce the friction of the line passing through the guides… Used to be good for fly lines, but they changed their formula a number of years ago and you don’t want to use it on your lines now.  They will work great for a short while but will crack prematurely.  With the new coatings on the lines and the new formula for Armour-all, l the plasticisers (which keep the line supple) are prematurely released out of the pvc coating causing cracks and deteriation.  Leeches the life out of your lines. "303 Protectant" is a similar product that will keep your lines slippery longer by adding plasticisers to the coatings instead of leaching them out.  You can get it by the bottle at auto parts places or in single use pads from Orvis.                                                              Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

What about Rain-X.  It is basically Silicon based with alcohol.  It works on winshields and I have seen it use on film projectors for similar purposes "slickening", etc.  It doesn’t hurt the estar of the films so it might not effect the fly line.  Any thoughts?

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(Frank Hinson) writes: Anyone ever tried using Armor-all as a flyline dressing? Seems like it would help reduce the friction of the line passing through the guides…

Used to be good for fly lines, but they changed their formula a number of years ago and you don’t want to use it on your lines now.  They will work great for a short while but will crack prematurely.  With the new coatings on the lines and the new formula for Armour-all, l the plasticisers (which keep the line supple) are prematurely released out of the pvc coating causing cracks and deteriation.  Leeches the life out of your lines. "303 Protectant" is a similar product that will keep your lines slippery longer by adding plasticisers to the coatings instead of leaching them out.  You can get it by the bottle at auto parts places or in single use pads from Orvis.                                                               Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone ever tried using Armor-all as a flyline dressing? Seems like it would help reduce the friction of the line passing through the guides… (may not be too environmental-friendly though) — Lockheed Martin EIS Orlando, FL I think the guides in Florida have been using Armor-all for over 20 years. I have never tried it. I understand that armour all used to be a very popular line cleaner and dressing, however, they have apparently changed their formulation and the new stuff cause fly lines to leach.  It is best if you od not use it. Ian Scott Wishbone Custom Rods http://credit.headwaters.com/wishbone

William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

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Anyone ever tried using Armor-all as a flyline dressing? Seems like it would help reduce the friction of the line passing through the guides… (may not be too environmental-friendly though)

Been there, done that, works fine, no guilt (what is 1 gram of Armor-All on my line going to hurt???)       Gene

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Anyone ever tried using Armor-all as a flyline dressing? Seems like it would help reduce the friction of the line passing through the guides… (may not be too environmental-friendly though) — Lockheed Martin EIS Orlando, FL

I understand that armour all used to be a very popular line cleaner and dressing, however, they have apparently changed their formulation and the new stuff cause fly lines to leach.  It is best if you od not use it. Ian Scott Wishbone Custom Rods http://credit.headwaters.com/wishbone

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Question:

Does anyone have any tips or experience on fishing the Wissahickon in Philadelphia?

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: Does anyone have any tips or experience on fishing the Wissahickon in : Philadelphia? Get a tetannus shot before you venture in.

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Does anyone have any tips or experience on fishing the Wissahickon in Philadelphia?

What…God doesn’t know?

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I fished the Wissahickon when I was a kid. They would stock it with trout, but if you ate one that was in the water too long it tasted like soap. The stream is muddy and tough to get down to in areas near Bells Mill and Valley Green if you want to wade. I would suggest that you go upstream near Flourtown where there’s a park that has open banks and the stream is a bit shallower and, if memory serves, may be better all around for fly fishing. Good luck

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Question:

These are great…very innovative, easy to use, and much safer than the conventional float tubes.  I’m not saying the conventionals are unsafe, but the Hobie is made of hard plastic pontoons that won’t puncture. They are also very comfortable and keep more of you out of the water.  Better back support than the conventional tubes, too.  The seat is sturdy and comfortable.  They look great, too!  Let me know if you have more questions.

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Has anyone had any experience with Hobie Float Cat kick boats? I am thinking of buying one and would appreciate comments. For those that don’t know… The Float Cat is a kick boat with rigid poly pontoons and aluminum frame. Thanks in advance.

I haven’t had any personal experience with the Hobie, but it raises the question:  why bother with rigid poly pontoons when you can have inflatable.  I recently purchased an 8′ kickboat made by Outcast and am extremely pleased with it.  It has PVC/polyester fabric tubes (25 oz bottoms/18 oz tops) with a clever 3 piece alumimum frame.  Whole thing breaks down to a *very* compact package and assembles in a couple of minutes (maybe 5 minutes w/ inflation).  Furthermore, fully assembled, it’s still light enough to easily transport and carry (probably 50#, with gear).  Rows beautifully – extremely fast and requires very little effort.   The main thing however is the hulls:  the PVC fabric, while rigid enough to support the frame, is also resilient enough to bounce off rocks, trees, etc.  And even if the outer hull material punctures, the air remains confined by the inner urethane bladder.  Rigid PVC is not very flexible.  I’m afraid that slamming a rock, particularly broadside could crack or hole a rigid hull (happens all the time with fiberglass drift boats).   There’s a reason inflatables dominate the river-running scene and it isn’t cost (a fully equipped 12′ raft runs about $4,000 these days): fact is their light weight and durability are nearly ideal for moving water.   -Wes Wes Neuenschwander Seattle, WA

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Has anyone had any experience with Hobie Float Cat kick boats? I am thinking of buying one and would appreciate comments. For those that don’t know… The Float Cat is a kick boat with rigid poly pontoons and aluminum frame. Thanks in advance. —  /// John Kleist, Colorado Climate Center, CSU, Fort Collins CO 80523   \ \        URL:http://ulysses.atmos.colostate.edu/~johnk/                ///

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Can I add to John Kliest’s request for information?  If anyone has experience using these pontoon boats on rivers, I would be interested in observations and comments.  My objective would be to use it in Montana on certain – emphasize certain – rivers to do my own floats.  On the other hand, I would prefer to live a bit longer than my current age, if only to fish, and thus am not inclined to take unecessary risks.  Thanks.                                     Mark Faulkner

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Can I add to John Kliest’s request for information?  If anyone has experience using these pontoon boats on rivers, I would be interested in observations and comments.  My objective would be to use it in Montana on certain – emphasize certain – rivers to do my own floats.  On the other hand, I would prefer to live a bit longer than my current age, if only to fish, and thus am not inclined to take unecessary risks.  Thanks.                                    Mark Faulkner

Hi Mark, My wife and I have been using pontoon boats in Montana for the past five years. Water Otter with a rowing systme is what we currently own however there are several very good pontoon crafts on the market. We use them on the Madison, Missouri, Big Horn, Yellowstone, Big Hole, Gallatin, etc. and love them. As in any craft on the water you need to be aware of your surroundings. Under water trees, rocks, etc. can be dangerous in any kind of a boat including the pontoon boat. I’ve only had one close call in the five years and it was my fault. I had driven all night to get to the Big Horn River and decided to fish anyway. You know how it is, escaping from corporate America for a few days. I fell a sleep while floating the river and run one the pontoons up on a partly submerged rock. The rock just about turned over the boat but fortunately did not. I certainly woke up. That was a close enough call. I banked the boat and slept for a couple of hours before continuing the float. Now that I’ve been downsized out of corporate America I live in Bozeman, Montana where I work as a guide. Usually I guide customers in my drift boat but do have several client who like fishing out of the pontoon craft. The craft is also great when guiding float tubing clients because I can navigate rapidly (and with little effort) between customers to assist/instruct, etc., even if the wind is blowing. And the wind blows often in Montana. I think you will enjoy a pontoon boat. I do not own a Buck Bag pontoon boat but have operated a friend’s boat and like it a lot. I understand from Dave Corcoran at the River’s Edge here in Bozeman that the Buck’s is the best buy for the money in his opinion. If you are interested I saw they had one of the new models in stock when I stopped by yesterday. For more information you can call them at 406-586-5373. Good luck and let me know how things work out for you regarding these great boats. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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Question:

Hello,         My family is heading up to the North Fork (Henry’s Fork) of the Snake River in about a week.  Can anybody tell me how are the water conditions?  How is the (non-fly) fishing, in general? Thanks The above opinions are unregistered, evaluation opinions.  They are copyrighted solely by me.  If you wish to purchase a license to use these opinions, please send me $15.  Distribution without intent of permanent possesion is permitted and encouraged. "When one has lost one’s reason for living, one tends to be less motivated."  – Utwig, StarControl II

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(Brad Kirby) writes:

havent heard lately how henrys is running, the main stem is still pretty full, although it changes almost daily due to water releases. i’m going over that way on the 18th for a week or so. you missed the salmon fly hatch by now on the henrys fork, overall the fishing on the snake system is [generally] pretty good, i always have good luck on large black roostertails for cutthroat, any large type spinner for browns in that area and lately have been having success with bro or black or some combination of jig, let it tap the bottom and keep your line tight, cutts will grab it on the fall, good luck.

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