Question:

OK, things seem to have quieted down somewhat, so I’ll jump in here to

share SNIPPEDED FOR BREVITY Your Benevolent Old Swapmeister

I just love a thinkin’ man! Op

Response:

Me too, I think it’s a good idea! Hans van der Stroom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK, things seem to have quieted down somewhat, so I’ll jump in here to share SNIPPEDED FOR BREVITY Your Benevolent Old Swapmeister I just love a thinkin’ man! Op

Response:

OK, things seem to have quieted down somewhat, so I’ll jump in here to share SNIPPEDED FOR BREVITY Your Benevolent Old Swapmeister I just love a thinkin’ man! Op

Shit Op, even a blind pig will find an acorn eventually. Frank Church in Elkhart, IN bassbugr AT yahoo dot com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -}<((((o ~~~ }<((((o ~~~ }<((((o ~~~ }<(((o

Response:

will other suckers for punishment be able to tie in both groups?…just about done my flies for this round by the way…will send them off next week… Eugene

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK, things seem to have quieted down somewhat, so I’ll jump in here to share SNIPPEDED FOR BREVITY Your Benevolent Old Swapmeister I just love a thinkin’ man! Op Shit Op, even a blind pig will find an acorn eventually. Frank Church in Elkhart, IN bassbugr AT yahoo dot com }<((((o ~~~ }<((((o ~~~ }<((((o ~~~ }<(((o

Response:

will other suckers for punishment be able to tie in both groups?…just about done my flies for this round by the way…will send them off next week… Eugene

….well, right off the top of my bald head Eugene I don’t see why not…we might just give that a try and see how it works. At least those who don’t mind tying a bunch of flies will have a shot at it.  I’ll hold that thought till 2003. Frank Church

Response:

OK, things seem to have quieted down somewhat, so I’ll jump in here to share an idea I have about *future* Great Fly Swaps.

**Snipped a great plan** Your Benevolent Old Swapmeister

Sounds like a good idea to me o’ Master Swapmeister Obi-wan Church! Jeff

Response:

Sounds like a great idea. I am new to the group and new to fly fishing. I plan to start tying this spring and would loved to have participated. Maybe I can get in on it next time. -wayne – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK, things seem to have quieted down somewhat, so I’ll jump in here to share an idea I have about *future* Great Fly Swaps. It pains me to have to turn away folks that want to be a part of it, and this year at least 5 didn’t make it and maybe more that just gave up. I think (and most would agree) that tying 40 flies is just about the max acceptable.(except for those experts who can whip out 40 in an afternoon)  So here is what I propose for future swaps…Let *everyone* sign-up, no limit. Then when the dust settles in a few days I can split the number of tyers right down the middle and wind up with 2 groups of around 20 or so. Then each half would tie for their group….this would then eliminate the cap on the number of tyers and nobody would have to tie more flies than just their group. (except me of course, being a glutton for punishment..I would tie the total number of both groups) Nothing else would be changed, just send ‘em in to me and I’ll divvy up the flies according to the group you are in. The Great Fly Swap will *always* commence on Jan 1st, and after the 2 groups have been established, a time limit will be announced as to when the flies are to be in to me. Any comments, questions will be entertained. Criticisms will be shitcanned immediately. :-] Your Benevolent Old Swapmeister

Response:

just about done my flies for this round by the way…will send them off next week… Eugene

Show off!

Response:

The size twenty group sounds good.  I had trouble this year tying 40 flys of the same pattern, no two of which were alike. Lou

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK, things seem to have quieted down somewhat, so I’ll jump in here to share an idea I have about *future* Great Fly Swaps. It pains me to have to turn away folks that want to be a part of it, and this year at least 5 didn’t make it and maybe more that just gave up. I think (and most would agree) that tying 40 flies is just about the max acceptable.(except for those experts who can whip out 40 in an afternoon)  So here is what I propose for future swaps…Let *everyone* sign-up, no limit. Then when the dust settles in a few days I can split the number of tyers right down the middle and wind up with 2 groups of around 20 or so. Then each half would tie for their group….this would then eliminate the cap on the number of tyers and nobody would have to tie more flies than just their group. (except me of course, being a glutton for punishment..I would tie the total number of both groups)  Nothing else would be changed, just send ‘em in to me and I’ll divvy up the flies according to the group you are in. The Great Fly Swap will *always* commence on Jan 1st, and after the 2 groups have been established, a time limit will be announced as to when the flies are to be in to me. Any comments, questions will be entertained. Criticisms will be shitcanned immediately. :-] Your Benevolent Old Swapmeister

Response:

The size twenty group sounds good.  I had trouble this year tying 40 flys of the same pattern, no two of which were alike. Lou

Lou…. no problem, we only see one fly…. who is to know what the other 40 look like… <g Frank, is this 20 quantity retroactive? <g Tight Lines, –Walt Fly Fishing NC & more… http://www.ezflyfish.com http://www.wilsoncreekoutfitters.com

Response:

Lou…. no problem, we only see one fly…. who is to know what the other 40 look like… <g Frank, is this 20 quantity retroactive? <g Tight Lines, –Walt Fly Fishing NC & more… http://www.ezflyfish.com

Too late Walt, wished I had thought of it sooner tho. Frank

Response:

YOU!  WILL TIE THIS FLY!!!!! Frank Church Me too, I think it’s a good idea! Hans van der Stroom

not

Response:

Frank how about a 2nd Swap ? … Say 20-30 people, around March 15, call it March Madness or something. Start with those who don’t make the Jan 1 list, then open up to those who can’t get enough pain (like me) q8-) Gary         I tie, I fly, so I buy, …therefor I’m broke. OK, things seem to have quieted down somewhat, so I’ll jump in here to share an idea I have about *future* Great Fly Swaps. It pains me to have to turn away folks that want to be a part of it, and this year at least 5 didn’t make it and maybe more that just gave up.

Snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any comments, questions will be entertained. Criticisms will be shitcanned immediately. :-] Your Benevolent Old Swapmeister

Response:

Frank how about a 2nd Swap ? … Say 20-30 people, around March 15, call it March Madness or something.

We have a volunteer swapmeister!

Response:

Frank how about a 2nd Swap ? … Say 20-30 people, around March 15, call it March Madness or something. Start with those who don’t make the Jan 1 list, then open up to those who can’t get enough pain (like me) q8-) Gary

…..sounds like a reasonable suggestion Gary, but for me I’d just as soon get it over and done with in the first part of the winter. Beginning in March, a good many of our folks are starting to think seriously about going fishing after the enforced time-out thru the winter months…me for example. Now, if anyone else wants to take that on, be my guest.  After the dust settles from the Great Fly Swap (maybe I oughta copyright that :-] )  I’m ready to move on to something else, like getting my boat ready and haunting the local lakes here for ice-out. Glad to see someone else is in to pain too. :-  Seems to me that splitting the total number of tyers into two groups in Jan. might be the better choice. Several agreed with me, and no criticisms were allowed anyway so I had nothing but positive feedback. (smiley implied here) Frank I’m not broke so much from fishing stuff, but I have a high-maintenance wife and a cat that demands top of the line kitty food.

Response:

OK, things seem to have quieted down somewhat, so I’ll jump in here to share an idea I have about *future* Great Fly Swaps.

Gee Frank, that’s such a good idea, I’m glad I though of it.  :-) Joe F.

Response:

OK, things seem to have quieted down somewhat, so I’ll jump in here to share an idea I have about *future* Great Fly Swaps. Gee Frank, that’s such a good idea, I’m glad I though of it.  :-) Joe F.

If you’re saying you thought of it first, I’m not surprised. And if you mentioned it I either didn’t see it or have forgotten already. *That* doesn’t surprise me!  Let’s give credit where credit is due, thank you Joe. Frank the plagiarizer Church

Response:

And if you mentioned it I either didn’t see it or have forgotten already. *That* doesn’t surprise me!

Actually, that’s how I’d set up the ground rules for the DDFS; but since folks weren’t exactly beating down the door for that one, implementation of that scheme never came into play; and it was (quite appropriately) forgotten.   I’m not due any credit, just having a little smile.  :-) Joe F.

Response:

I’m not due any credit, just having a little smile.  :-)

Of course, the *first* one to think of that was… <g — Charlie…

Response:

What am I supposed to think of this kind of reactions to what appears to be a rather normal answer to a rather normal question, Mr. Gehrke? Did good old Alois finally got his hands on you? Hans van der Stroom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – YOU!  WILL TIE THIS FLY!!!!! Frank Church Me too, I think it’s a good idea! Hans van der Stroom not

Response:

What am I supposed to think of this kind of reactions to what appears to be a rather normal answer to a rather normal question, Mr. Gehrke? Did good old Alois finally got his hands on you? Hans van der Stroom

I’m glad you thought of that Hans.  Perhaps? George Von Gehrke "the Baron of Roff"

Response:

Gehrke writes: George Von Gehrke "the Baron of Roff"

You misspelled moron. Pirate

Response:

Gehrke writes: George Von Gehrke "the Baron of Roff" You misspelled moron. Excuse me.  It’s spelled "LaCourse"

George Gehrke Pirate Stomper

Response:

Charlie Choc wrote… I’m not due any credit, just having a little smile.  :-) Of course, the *first* one to think of that was… <g

We all know how that one goes….. http://makeashorterlink.com/?F2722174 — Warren Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

Response:

OK, things seem to have quieted down somewhat, so I’ll jump in here to share an idea I have about *future* Great Fly Swaps. It pains me to have to turn away folks that want to be a part of it, and this year at least 5 didn’t make it and maybe more that just gave up. I think (and most would agree) that tying 40 flies is just about the max acceptable.(except for those experts who can whip out 40 in an afternoon)  So here is what I propose for future swaps…Let *everyone* sign-up, no limit. Then when the dust settles in a few days I can split the number of tyers right down the middle and wind up with 2 groups of around 20 or so. Then each half would tie for their group….this would then eliminate the cap on the number of tyers and nobody would have to tie more flies than just their group. (except me of course, being a glutton for punishment..I would tie the total number of both groups)  Nothing else would be changed, just send ‘em in to me and I’ll divvy up the flies according to the group you are in. The Great Fly Swap will *always* commence on Jan 1st, and after the 2 groups have been established, a time limit will be announced as to when the flies are to be in to me. Any comments, questions will be entertained. Criticisms will be shitcanned immediately. :-] Your Benevolent Old Swapmeister

Response:

Question:

Does anyone know of any flyfishing spots in Spain around Granada? Thanks. Al

Response:

Does anyone know of any flyfishing spots in Spain around Granada? Thanks. Al

Try the Rio Frio, west of Granada near Loja. JR

Response:

Al: Drop Tino an email and see ifhe can help you. He’s somewhere up in the mountains in Spain.

Response:

Havve a look at http://www.cybertrout.com./spain.htm http://usuarios.futurnet.es/m/marlin/index.htm http://www.caldea.com/fish/andfishi.html

Does anyone know of any flyfishing spots in Spain around Granada? Thanks.

Al

Response:

Question:

Bruce: Hey, you don’t have to rub our USA noses in it, do you?  Seriously, thanks for an informative post.  Of course, do you realize you just ruined your fishing? Now your area will become a dreaded "destination fishery", bringing yuppie Yankees crawling all over your fishing waters.  Articles will appear in fishing magazines, rods will be named after your favorite rivers, and if you’re really lucky there will be a Jeep model named in your honor.  :) Mark Faulkner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hmmmm, humble Aussie here, and after reading numerous articles from the newsgroups I’ve gotta say you have to get down into the Southern Hemisphere. Where I live in Horsham in Western Victoria, down south in case you didn’t know, I have world class lake fishing virtually at my doorstep. Twenty minutes in one direction takes me to Lake Toolondo, home of sensational brown trout, and 30 minutes in the other direction takes me to Lake Fyans where I landed a lovely little rainbow on Sunday night. Lovely start to the working week, I must say. Seriously, without being flippant, I had no idea how lucky I was as far as my fly fishing goes until I started to read articles from the newsgroup. I don’t have to plan fishing trips. Mates simply call during the day, ask what I’m doing later and whether I’d like to go fishing. We pack our gear into the car and we’re there in no more than half an hour. And that’s to get to the best waters. There are plenty as close as 10 minutes away which produce browns to 5lb on a good day. If anyone’s considering an Aussie holiday, you could do worse than to visit from September through to March. Hope you like it hot, though. Regards, Bruce L.

Response:

Mark Faulkner you’re really lucky there will be a Jeep model named in your honor.  :) The Subaru already has the "Outback".   Dave LaCourse

Response:

Mark Faulkner you’re really lucky there will be a Jeep model named in your honor.  :) The Subaru already has the "Outback". Dave LaCourse

Jeez, how could I forget that.  Mark Faulkner

Response:

Bruce: Hey, you don’t have to rub our USA noses in it, do you?  Seriously, thanks for an informative post.  Of course, do you realize you just ruined your fishing? Now your area will become a dreaded "destination fishery", bringing yuppie Yankees crawling all over your fishing waters.  Articles will appear in fishing magazines, rods will be named after your favorite rivers, and if you’re really lucky there will be a Jeep model named in your honor.  :) Mark Faulkner

Don’t worry about it Mark, Rex Hunt will probably be there, and he will keep the tourists away! Regards, — Bill

Response:

Question:

Hi I was wondering if any person knows any flats in Cozumel for bones done on a budget?? Also if Isla Mujeres has any wadable flats nearby? Thanks alot Sam I am

Hi, You can catch bones on the north end of Cozumel any time of the year. There are lots of guides on the island. I have not heard of anyone driving there yet as the roads don’t go there. Get a guide for a half day trip in the morning as that is the best fishing anyway. If you shop around you might get a guide for $150/half-day. I was out on Isla Mujeres, but didn’t see any flats. I don’t know about any guides there, but it has a big lagoon. We have been fishing a great lagoon system about an hour north of Cancun with schools of small tarpon from 5 to 30 pounds in clear shallow water. Guides can pick you up at 5am at your hotel in Cancun and take you out for the day. Call Fred at Rod & Reel Adventures to book any of these guides. 800/356-6982 Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

Response:

Hi I was wondering if any person knows any flats in Cozumel for bones done on a budget?? Also if Isla Mujeres has any wadable flats nearby? Thanks alot Sam I am

Response:

There are three areas at the north end of Cozumel Island. There are lots of bonefish, although not trophy size. At least I haven’t caught one. They are large enough to make your reel sing and make you wonder if you have enough backing. I have heard that you can drive there but I don’t know for sure. I don’t have the name of the guide I use. You can ask around at the marina.

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Question:

Does anybody how the fishing is there right now. Jay

Response:

Should be good – no snow around yet Mo — British Columbia &  Western Canada Information at = http://www.cvnet.net/modrew/Index.htm ;o) delete "nospam" to e-mail me – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anybody how the fishing is there right now. Jay

Response:

for what? With the exception of the Yakoun the best steelhead runs are usually late in the Winter. All the coho are either dead or a lovely combination of cherry red and cream coloured fungus. Might be ok for cutts and dollies using glo-bugs or streamers in some of the lakes – but I’d check the reg’s first as I’m not sure if they are even open. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Should be good – no snow around yet Mo — British Columbia &  Western Canada Information at = http://www.cvnet.net/modrew/Index.htm ;o) delete "nospam" to e-mail me Does anybody how the fishing is there right now. Jay

Ralph H remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

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Question:

I’m going to be in Ft. Myers, Florida in August.  Does anyone have any suggestions for fly fishing spots that are accessible on foot in the Ft. Myers beach, Sanibel Island area? –

Response:

-  GEORGE ,

You can cast for snook and trout right from the beach in the morning. It’s fun! Stop in at a fly shop and ask for some local patterns. You may even see some tarpon. Best of luck, Gary C. Floridian Fly Fisherman "Lie ? Me ? Never!  No, no, no, the truth is far too much fun !" – Captain Hook

Response:

Question:

Any input?  I’m looking to make a decision between a Redington 9′ 8/9wt. and a St. Croix of the same build.  So far Redington is in the lead because of the Unconditional Lifetime Warranty.

The st. Croix Legend is a great deal. BTW it also has a lifetime unconditional warrenty.

Response:

Any input?  I’m looking to make a decision between a Redington 9′ 8/9wt. and a St. Croix of the same build.  So far Redington is in the lead because of the Unconditional Lifetime Warranty. —       _                 Dan Siderius                    |   / _` / _` | “ |      Check out My Homepage at:       |   __,___,_|_,,_|      http://wybbs.wynalda.com/~dans        |

Response:

8/9wt. and a St. Croix of the same build.

Dear Dan; The St. Croix may be a slightly faster action rod.  My experience ends with the 6/7 wts., but the principle may carry over to the higher weights.  They are both the same modulous graphite, but the cost of the St. Croix includes a pretty decent rod tube.  Flip a coin.  Better yet, cast ‘em both.  Even better yet, buy a Versitex! Sincerely; Jason Beary

Response:

I’ve got a St Croix Legend (5wt, 9ft) All I can say is that it gets the job done. It’s fine, I works, I’ve got no complaints, but I know, in my heart of hearts, that I ain’t driving a Caddy. True, the warrenty is good and the fly tube is great and gbest of all, the price is excellent. I will be upgrading tho, when my big ship comes in Damn, faint praise! S. "The World is full of shipping clerks who read the Harvard Classics." –Bukowski, American writer, poet S. Duda Seattle, WA

Response:

Dan, I used to fish with a St. Croix and now I fish with a Redington.  I own a Redington 9 ft., 5wt.  My St. Croix is a 8.5 ft., 5/6 wt.  I like my Redington a lot better.  It is a little faster, and the Unconditional Lifetime Warranty has come in handy.  I work at Jacklin’s Fly Shop in West Yellowstone and My Redington worked fine out there last summer.                               Jamie. Any input?  I’m looking to make a decision between a Redington 9′ 8/9wt. and a St. Croix of the same build.  So far Redington is in the lead because of the Unconditional Lifetime Warranty. —       _                 Dan Siderius                    |   / _` / _` | “ |      Check out My Homepage at:       |   __,___,_|_,,_|      http://wybbs.wynalda.com/~dans  |

– Jamie Farrell Interests:   -fly fishing   -fly tying   -camping   -hiking

Response:

Question:

I have the opportunity to spend a week in Denver in mid-June (8-14). I plan on fishing while there. Is there a concern about run-off and high water? What about the South Platte? Any other suggestions? Should I expect any dry-fly activity? I checked all of the CO – related web-links, but data on this time of year is not readily available. Any info is appreciated. Phil

Response:

I have the opportunity to spend a week in Denver in mid-June (8-14). I plan on fishing while there. Is there a concern about run-off and high water? What about the South Platte? Any other suggestions? Should I expect any dry-fly activity? I checked all of the CO – related web-links, but data on this time of year is not readily available. Any info is appreciated. Phil

Phil, last year the run-off ended past mid July, it was a record season for kayaking. Also, A-basin, the highest ski resort, did not shut down for the summer. We got a lot of snow this year, too, and being conservative, I don’t expect to be dry fly fishing before July. Roberto — phone +303-492-3504       |  Dept. of Chemistry & Biochemistry fax +303-492-5894         |  University of Colorado at Boulder

Response:

Question:

   Does anyone know Bill Hunter’s address or phone number. He no longer owns Hunter’s Angling but sells some stuff out of his house I need. Thanks in advance.    Ralph —

Response:

   Does anyone know Bill Hunter’s address or phone number. He no longer owns Hunter’s Angling but sells some stuff out of his house I need. Thanks in advance.    Ralph —

Last I heard he was in New Boston NH. There is a listing in the Select Phone CD. Bill Hunter, 223 S Hill Rd, New Boston NH 03070, 603-487-3844 Don’t know if that is the same Bill you’re looking for but it’s worth a shot. I haven’t been to his shop in years & wasn’t even aware he had sold it. Tight Lines. Byard

Response:

Question:

The biggest difference, IMHO, is that sea kayakers don’t need to worry as much about the current smashing their faces into rocks!!! Not always true.  My front teeth bear witness to that sad fact.  It’s been my experience that most often you’ll need a roll in a sea kayak nearer to shore where the waves are a lot different (less regular), and where rocks can lurk just under the surface to rearrange the faces of the less wary.

Well, that is why I said "as much".   But you’re probably right that nearshore is where you’re most likely to capsize, right where rocks are most hazardous.  Not only are the waves less regular, they’re also bigger and more likely to break in the shallow spots where the rocks lurk. — Bob Myers                              InteleNet Communications, Inc. Phone: 714/851-8250                    Irvine, CA 92714 Fax:   714/851-1088                    http://www.intelenet.net/

Response:

I saw a good video several years ago put out by Perception when I was taking the ACA instructor class.  It shows a young lady sitting in her boat on the pool deck.  She puts the top of her head on the pool deck while keeping the boat upright…  It helps to have that kind of flexibility but it’s not required.  I’m sure you could get it from them. I have to agree  with the post by Chip Mefford.  In the sessions I’ve taught the technique he describes works best for most people.  There are basically 3 types of learners (get the ACA instructors man. for details on that) & you need to teach different people different ways.  I was able to teach my 110 lb. daughter to roll an open canoe (72 lb. outfitted) in about two hours so it’s technique not muscle. Dave Stockdill

Response:

Grace Under Pressure – Learning the Kayak Roll is good c-c only The Kayaker’s Edge also has a section on both the c-c & the sweep roll.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In the fly fishing world about 15 years ago there was a deluge of articles on the mechanics of fly casting.  Most were written by excellent casters who really did know how to cast but who really didn’t have a clear visualization of what they were actually doing.  Videotaping eventually provided the correct answers.   Question:  are good videotapes of the Eskimo roll available?  Where? Bob — —– Bob Perkins, Director of Institutional Research and Planning Methodist College Fayetteville, NC  28311                          Office: 910-630-7037

Yes, watch what they do and don’t pay to much attention to what they say they do. THE KAYAKERS EDGE BY KENT FORD is one of the best how to kayaking videos.It has a lot more than rolling. Buy it,rent it or borrow it,after you have seen it you’ll probably buy it,if you aren’t to short of cash. My 11 year old grand son taught himself to roll I guess from watching the video. I sure didn’t teach him.                     gene

Response:

Question:  are good videotapes of the Eskimo roll available?  Where?

In "The Kayaker’s Edge", amidst all of the other intro and skill stuff, is about a ten minute bit on rolling. It’s got some good camera work that follows the roll above and below the water’s surface. It should be helpful for a lot of people. Paul

Response:

Question:  are good videotapes of the Eskimo roll available?  Where? Bob

"Grace Under Pressure" is an excellent video discussing the C-to-C roll.  It discusses the on-side, off-side and the hand roll.  I highly recommend it.  This was the video I was shown before I even got into a kayak for the first time.  I eventually bought a copy for myself and find it very useful. Viewing that in combination with reading the Bomb Proof Roll has helped me a lot.  I would check with your local REI, I know they have the book, and I wouldn’t be surprised if they have the video.  Or, any shop that carries kayaking equipment should have the video or know where to find it.   Also, most of the paddling companies who do mail order has it. I know for sure that the latest NRS catalog has it.  You can even order a catalog from NRS’s home page at http://www.gorp.com/nrs.htm Happy rolling! Harriet

Response:

| Help– I have been trying to master the Eskimo Roll for over a year now | with my sea kayak and am having problems.  Can anyone give me some tips | that migfht help me accomplish the challenge at hand.  Thanks I sincerely apologize for the confusion and appreciate the kind advice sent my way.  The original post appeared to be a sea kayaking fellow who was concentrating on the motion of his paddle — with no mention of hip snap.   Is there anyone out there in a sea kayak who can help him? Again, sorry for the confusion!!!

What confusion?  I’m a sea kayaker, and I’ve a good roll.  I really do not believe the roll is any different (in principle) in a sea kayak or a whitewater kayak.  The hip snap is just as much the key to the roll in a sea kayak.  Your advice was right on.  The boats do feel differently, and some sea kayaks can be very difficult to roll (certainly not all!), but the basic principles of rolling are exactly the same. The biggest difference, IMHO, is that sea kayakers don’t need to worry as much about the current smashing their faces into rocks!!! — Bob Myers                              InteleNet Communications, Inc. Phone: 714/851-8250                    Irvine, CA 92714 Fax:   714/851-1088                    http://www.intelenet.net/

Response:

I’ve read two full descriptions, with pictures, of Eskimo rolls.  No wonder beginners get confused.  It took me several readings of both and careful scrutiny of the photographs to realize that the descriptions were essentially the same.  To wit:      Leverage roll  =  C-to-C roll      Screw roll  =  Sweep roll Beyond that, the descriptions spend more words on what to do with the paddle than on the mechanics of the hip roll which actually rights the boat.   Underwater, a person’s head and upper body have much more "sail area" than the paddle.  Positioning the paddle properly sets up the boater’s upper body in a brace for the hip roll.  Once the boat flips upright, the paddle brace helps the boater roll upright. In the fly fishing world about 15 years ago there was a deluge of articles on the mechanics of fly casting.  Most were written by excellent casters who really did know how to cast but who really didn’t have a clear visualization of what they were actually doing.  Videotaping eventually provided the correct answers.   Question:  are good videotapes of the Eskimo roll available?  Where? Bob — —– Bob Perkins, Director of Institutional Research and Planning Methodist College Fayetteville, NC  28311                          Office: 910-630-7037

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What confusion?  I’m a sea kayaker, and I’ve a good roll.  I really do not believe the roll is any different (in principle) in a sea kayak or a whitewater kayak.  The hip snap is just as much the key to the roll … The biggest difference, IMHO, is that sea kayakers don’t need to worry as much about the current smashing their faces into rocks!!!

Not always true.  My front teeth bear witness to that sad fact.  It’s been my experience that most often you’ll need a roll in a sea kayak nearer to shore where the waves are a lot different (less regular), and where rocks can lurk just under the surface to rearrange the faces of the less wary.

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re: Help– I have been trying to master the Eskimo Roll for over a year now with my sea kayak and am having problems.  Can anyone give me some tips that migfht help me accomplish the challenge at hand.  Thanks

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Help– I have been trying to master the Eskimo Roll for over a year now with my sea kayak and am having problems.  Can anyone give me some tips that migfht help me accomplish the challenge at hand.  Thanks

Hips, hips, hips, and keep the head underwater for as long as humanly possible.  :-) — Macalester College St. Paul, Minnesota http://sonic.bigelow.macalstr.edu

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Wow!  I bet this turns into a monster thread….it might even exceed "Peeing in your boat"… I taught myself to roll with no outside instruction and, since I’m too dense to make sense out of pictoral instructions, virtually no book instruction. To start off the hundred-or-so tips you’ll undoubtdedly receive here, I would say go out and purchase a diving mask and wear it when you practice rolling.   I got nowhere except a bad sinus infiction before I started using a noseclip.   Using the noseclip I began to make progress; but once I started wearing the diving mask things really picked up – with tha mask on it is much easier to just sort of hang there upside-down and think things out before trhing to roll up. There are three or four other things I’m tempted to say, but I’ll leave them to those that know better than I do.

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A full face mask really helps while you are learning. Also the vido Kayakers Edge is white water but very good. Watch how others do it and don,t listen to closely to how they say they do it.

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re: Help– I have been trying to master the Eskimo Roll for over a year now with my sea kayak and am having problems.  Can anyone give me some tips that migfht help me accomplish the challenge at hand.  Thanks

I taught myself a simple cross roll first.  Noseclip, mask, a watcher to give you feed back.  I wraped the end of the paddle in an old sleeping pad and stuck it in the rungs of my ladder leading into the lake.  Once I could do that OK, I moved to float on the end of the paddle.  Finally I could do a simple roll with just the paddle.  Then I learned a real extended paddle roll.  Never could get a screw roll down with the heavier sea kayak – might have to do with narrow paddle and lots of surface area and deck rigging. Have fun Steve

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| re: | | Help– I have been trying to master the Eskimo Roll for over a year now | with my sea kayak and am having problems.  Can anyone give me some tips | that migfht help me accomplish the challenge at hand.  Thanks George: I think the best thing would be to take lessons. But, let me say a coupla things about rolls in general, at least for *me*.  If you get up part way and seem to sink back at the last moment, you are trying to raise your head too fast. I have found that keeping my eyes on the paddle as it sweeps back forces me to keep my head down. I also use the extended paddle roll, which IMHO is the best for a sea kayak roll beginner. Don’t forget the hip snap, try to have another person watch as you try your rolls, they might see you doing things that you aren’t aware of. Also, wearing a PFD during your attempts, even in a pool, helps to get started. Finaly, I have to practice each spring or I find that I get "rusty". Good luck. —         )                                J sales rep-sgi     http://www.dayton.sgi.com dayton, oh        513-258-7441  fax 7449

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Take a pool rolling class.  Four or five sessions should do it.  I also recommend the dive mask starting out.  The AMC and Casco Bay here in the Boston area offer these with a boat for under $100.  Good chance to try out other boats and meet some people to paddle with. — Regards, Sean

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Some things to help with learning to roll, roll, roll yer boat: 1)  Relax and have fun with this.  It’s NOT a muscle thing so just relax. 2)  Start by rolling the boat over with your hips on the edge of a pool      or dock or something to hold onto. 3)  Graduate to using a couple of kickboards after you can do the hip      roll easily on both sides from the solid hold. 4)  Reach out to the side as far as possible using the boards before      rolling up. 5)  Keep your head down as you "slinky" up rolling your hips first and      FOLLOWING with your head.  If your head comes out first before the      boat is over you’ll never make it. 6)  Once you can do this easily on one or both sides, take one of the      kickboards away.  One kickboard is about the lift that your paddle      will give, so try this until you can do it easily. 7)  NOW you can use your paddle, but it helps to have someone hold the end     at first.  With the paddle parallel to the boat as you go over with     your good hand forward (usually your writing hand, but eventually either)     sweep the paddle across the TOP of the water until the paddle is     perpendicular to the boat.  This forces your non-writing hand elbow     to slide UNDER the boat bottom and out of the water (when the boat is     upside down.  Then do the hip-slinky thing to roll the boat over and     follow with your head.  It helps to have someone watch and hold the     paddle a couple of times to get the feel and to have them watch that the     blade angle is flat on the surface of the water before you hip snap.  Don’t give up, it’s damn hard to do at first, but once you "get it" you     will wonder why it seemed so hard. 9)  Relax!  It doesn’t take a lot of muscle, it’s a technique thing. 10) Once you get it, play around with different ways of using your paddle     to get up and intentionally make yourself roll over in all sorts of     funny positions to learn to get into position from almost any angle etc… This is called the C to C roll, the eskimo is real similar but sweeps the blade rather than placing it perpendicular before you roll (kinda like doing the set-up for a C to C at the same time you roll your hips.  Most people need to learn the hip snap before putting it all together.  The eskimo roll from the stern of the boat rather than the bow is called a styr roll and is accomplished be sitting up from leaning back rather than from sweeping back from leaning forward. One of the greatest joys is your first roll in whitewater!  : ) Happy rolling! Robb

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| Help– I have been trying to master the Eskimo Roll for over a year now | with my sea kayak and am having problems.  Can anyone give me some tips | that migfht help me accomplish the challenge at hand.  Thanks I noticed in another part of your post that you seem to be concentrating on your paddle.  I’m not a sea kayaker, but I have been in a sea kayak and rolled w/no trouble (without even a spray skirt).  Those of us rolling on whitewater rely most heavily on the "hip snap" element of the roll rather than the paddle (there’s even a "hands roll" which involves no paddle at all). Check out the book "The Bombproof Roll and Beyond" if you are still of a mind to teach yourself.  It’s an excellent book – one I’ve used as a reference for trouble shooting while teaching roll clinics. Good luck!

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – | Help– I have been trying to master the Eskimo Roll for over a year now | with my sea kayak and am having problems.  Can anyone give me some tips | that migfht help me accomplish the challenge at hand.  Thanks I noticed in another part of your post that you seem to be concentrating on your paddle.  I’m not a sea kayaker, but I have been in a sea kayak and rolled w/no trouble (without even a spray skirt).  Those of us rolling on whitewater rely most heavily on the "hip snap" element of the roll rather than the paddle (there’s even a "hands roll" which involves no paddle at all). Check out the book "The Bombproof Roll and Beyond" if you are still of a mind to teach yourself.  It’s an excellent book – one I’ve used as a reference for trouble shooting while teaching roll clinics. Good luck!

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| Help– I have been trying to master the Eskimo Roll for over a year now | with my sea kayak and am having problems.  Can anyone give me some tips | that migfht help me accomplish the challenge at hand.  Thanks

i learned my good side roll with the standard c to c hip  snap, with a wide blade paddle. i never learned my bad side roll untill i started doing extended braces to the point where i could get my head in the water and skull in place .when you can do this with your head under the water you have mastered the hard part which is getting your head out without going back down. think it through in your head, it helps, and practice,practice,practice. just my 2 cents worth. my bad side roll was learned with my much prefered narrow blade paddle

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I noticed in another part of your post that you seem to be concentrating on your paddle.  I’m not a sea kayaker, but I have been in a sea kayak and rolled w/no trouble (without even a spray skirt).  Those of us rolling on whitewater rely most heavily on the "hip snap" element of the roll rather than the paddle (there’s even a "hands roll" which involves no paddle at all). Check out the book "The Bombproof Roll and Beyond" if you are still of a mind to teach yourself.  It’s an excellent book – one I’ve used as a reference for trouble shooting while teaching roll clinics. Good luck!

The above was in response to: | Help– I have been trying to master the Eskimo Roll for over a year now | with my sea kayak and am having problems.  Can anyone give me some tips | that migfht help me accomplish the challenge at hand.  Thanks

I sincerely apologize for the confusion and appreciate the kind advice sent my way.  The original post appeared to be a sea kayaking fellow who was concentrating on the motion of his paddle — with no mention of hip snap.   Is there anyone out there in a sea kayak who can help him? Again, sorry for the confusion!!! Happy paddling! Cheers Elizabeth

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I agree with all that has been said and especially encourage you to try the mask or goggles. I am still working on a consistent roll. My biggest problem is that I tend to lift my head too soon. I didn’t even believe i was doing it at first so I put on the goggles and opened my eyes and sure enough I was looking at the ceiling intstead of at my paddle or the pool bottom. As long as I look at the bottom I tend to come up without fail. Good luck Lisa

well, sheesh, I really kinda hate to say this;   I readily concurr with all these folks that all these aids may very well be the cats meow for some folk, but my experience has been rather different.   It took me a solid two years before I had a "bomber" roll. These days I can usually teach a 2 person class to roll in one pool session, 2 sessions at the outside.  I bought into the whole reading, goggles, nose plugs, video whatever. , , , , the thing is, where visualation may be of some assistance for some things, rolling is SO counterintuitive that for most people, making an attempt at visualizing what is going on only handicaps their progression.  I was honored once opon a time to teach alongside Eric Jackson of Adventure Schools. EJ can (I’ve seen him do it) teach a group of half a dozen people who have never held a paddle to roll in about an hour without getting out of his boat most of the time.  I can say with some certainty, that rolling is a BODY move, where sitting around underwater, upside down, looking around with your goggles on, is ridiculously disorienting. Visualizing is an INTELLECTUAL exercise. If your try to teach your intellect to teach your body to do something that is very counter to instinct, you are fighting an uphill battle with a slim chance at success. Facts are, your body wants air, in order to get air, it wants to get its air ports, (yer head) out of the water, as long as you are trying to get your head out first, you will fail.   I cannot teach as Eric does, I teach in the water, I only demonstrate that the roll is in fact quite easy, does not require a paddle, and can be done on or off sides. I after demonstrating these things so as to make them appear as easy as they in fact are, I beach my boat, get in the water with my students, sans paddles, take them by the hands, get good eye contact and show them how to use their bodies to make the move. Then I give them their paddle back, posistion it for them as they go through the motions a few times, each time gently correcting any attempts to use strength over grace, each time easing my grip on the paddle untill I only have a few fingers on the blade. I then usually let the blade go after positioning it a few times, soon I am not doing anything other than being close by as they execute their first few rolls. More often than not, my students are not aware that they have rolled on their own untill I tell them.  I guess my point is, rather than spend a lot of time concerning oneself with the "Okay, I’m upside down now, so if I put this hand here, cant the shaft this way, put that hand there, turn my head this way, and then, , ,  uh, I need to , , , uh, , , wait, lemme see, I need to twich this way and push that way and move the paddle this other way, , , wait, uh, , I need to, , , , crap, I need to breath!!! , , arrgghhh!!!"  Hook up with an instructor and have them teach you. Post Script;   It is a little strange in some sense, less so in others, that by and large both, in my experience, women very often learn the roll much faster than their S.O.’s in class. There are a lot of things at play here, however, i.m.e. the women seldom attempt to strong arm the roll, and the men nealy always do. In fact the more athletic the man, the more difficult it is to get them to let themselves roll. As another digression, I’ve had folk with a background in oriental martial arts specificly Akido, roll on their first try after having the roll slowly demonstrated.     Once I had a gal tell me that she though the paddle was messing her up, then executed a hands roll after about 2 tries. That perplexes me to this day. It was a real pill gettting her to roll with a paddle.

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, , , , the thing is, where visualation may be of some assistance for some things, rolling is SO counterintuitive that for most people, making an attempt at visualizing what is going on only handicaps their progression. … I can say with some certainty, that rolling is a BODY move, where sitting around underwater, upside down, looking around with your goggles on, is ridiculously disorienting. Visualizing is an INTELLECTUAL exercise. If your try to teach your intellect to teach your body to do something that is very counter to instinct, you are fighting an uphill battle with a slim chance at success. Facts are,

Well, I, for one, would like to state that this depends very much on who you are and how you learn, and different people learn in different manners.   In particular, I *absolutely* need to visualize a manuever before I can do it – and once I’ve visualized it completely, I really *can* do it.  It’s very frustrating for me when people of the opposite type (going for the "feel" of it *without* the visualization) try to teach me any physical skill.  I just can’t do it. On the other hand, contrary to most people’s experience, I very easily picked up my "off" side roll, once I had a good "on" side roll.  It was, for me, literally no more than reversing what I did on the "on" side.  No "learning" of body movements was required; all I had to do was visualize the reversed movements. What I’m trying to say is that we’re all different, and it’s hard to generalize that this way or that way is the best way to learn for everyone.  Some of us require visualization, and some of us require the body training. I guess my point is, rather than spend a lot of time concerning oneself with the "Okay, I’m upside down now, so if I put this hand here, cant the shaft this way, put that hand there, turn my head this way, and then, , ,  uh, I need to , , , uh, , , wait, lemme see, I need to twich this way and push that way and move the paddle this other way, , , wait, uh, , I need to, , , , crap, I need to breath!!! , , arrgghhh!!!"  Hook up with an instructor and have them teach you.

I agree that an instructor helps, on the other hand.  I need to watch an instructor to *see* exactly what he was doing.  But then I needed to think it through and visualize the whole process. — Bob Myers                              InteleNet Communications, Inc. Phone: 714/851-8250                    Irvine, CA 92714 Fax:   714/851-1088                    http://www.intelenet.net/

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 Once I had a gal tell me that she though the paddle was messing her up, then executed a hands roll after about 2 tries. That perplexes me to this day. It was a real pill gettting her to roll with a paddle.

I believe thqt there is really something to this idea that: "this clumsy paddle messes me up when I try to roll" My son could do hand rolls, both sides, the second day trying to roll, however he is still having trouble using a paddle to roll. I think that when you have a paddle in your hands, you use it and forget about the body. If you don’t have a paddle, you KNOW you have to use your body. Makes sense to me. Jon Hauris

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