Question:

well said I think.  put another way: A $10000 body will produce the same results as a $100 one if you shoot the basics. Sunil www.lockon.f2s.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I will probably be slammed by people thinking my reply is rude but here goes: If you have to ask this question you do not need an F5.  An F5 is a professional camera.  It is designed to withstand the rigors of pro use, and have the features we need when on location, regardless of the situation that comes up.  Buy the F100 or possibly the 90s.  Either of these cameras will save you close to $1000, and you can then buy better lenses.  One of the funniest things I see when working is I will be standing there with my F5 and my 80-200 AF-S, and someone will come up to me with an F5 and a tamron 28-200 lens on it and want to talk shop, and he has no clue what an f-stop is. Seriously, save your money, don’t spend it just because you have it.  You will be buying features you will NEVER use! Mike

Response:

Your right.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am not upset. I just wanted to point out some thing you didn’t mention. No offense intended. Relax, he didn’t say what he needed the camera to do.  He just asked if the F5 was worth the money.  You act like I insulted your mother — not your camera.  Jeez. The F5 has every feature available to a 35mm camera (as far as I know). You can do everything photographic with it.  The F100 has limitations. To me the F5 is cheaper than the F100 because of a few features it has over the F100.  The easily swappable focusing screens, mirror lock-up, interchangeable viewfinders, and 100% viewfinder are all virtually priceless features.  I believe the F100 lacks DOF preview though I cannot be sure at the moment.  Personally I would think Nikon could include at least a few of these features considering how expensive the F100 is.  If you can cough up enough for the F100 then keep coughing until you get the F5 in your hands. There are two advantages to the F100, weight and price. If you need MLU, 100% viewfinder, etc go for the F5. If weight is an issue, the F100 is a great camera body. BTW the F100 has DOF preview. — Tom Thackrey tom at creative-light.com www.creative-light.com —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

What do you mean by "can’t use"?, is it not possible to mount an AI or AIS lens to the camera?, or does the matrix metering not function with MF lenses? If you are referring to Pre-AI lenses then I could see that they couldn’t be mounted to the camera (due to the AI tooth).

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey greg, If you are going to recommend the N90s then why not the N80? I thought I read somewhere that the N80 is the only Nikon that can’t use the older lenses. If this is true IMO then that’s reason enough not to bother with one.

Response:

Hey greg, If you are going to recommend the N90s then why not the N80? I thought I read somewhere that the N80 is the only Nikon that can’t use the older lenses. If this is true IMO then that’s reason enough not to bother with one.

The AI and AIS Nikkors will mount to the N80, but the meter is inoperative. — Tony Polson

Response:

Not even the spot-meter!?!?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey greg, If you are going to recommend the N90s then why not the N80? I thought I read somewhere that the N80 is the only Nikon that can’t use the older lenses. If this is true IMO then that’s reason enough not to bother with one. The AI and AIS Nikkors will mount to the N80, but the meter is inoperative. — Tony Polson

Response:

Not even the spot-meter!?!?

Not even the spot meter.  The N80/F80 will meter only with lenses that have a built-in CPU.  All AF lenses will meter, plus all AI-P lenses.   Nothing else will meter. I found this very disappointing, as I think the N80/F80 is otherwise an excellent camera.  Had it metered with AI/AIS lenses, I would have bought one as a second body to go with my F3.   As it is, I bought an F4, sold the F3 and then bought an F4 as a second body to go with the first F4.  And I’ve steadily replaced my lenses over the last 5 months to the point where all but two are AF Nikkors.  So I’m now considering selling one F4 and replacing it with a smaller, lighter body, which includes just about every 35mm SLR camera ever made.  <g It will be either a used F100 or a new F80. — Tony Polson

Response:

The N80 is for the "new generation" of camera users. Those who start new in the AF line. It is not marketed as a retro camera. The camera’s metering system only works with AF lenses. Regards, Roger – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What do you mean by "can’t use"?, is it not possible to mount an AI or AIS lens to the camera?, or does the matrix metering not function with MF lenses? If you are referring to Pre-AI lenses then I could see that they couldn’t be mounted to the camera (due to the AI tooth). Hey greg, If you are going to recommend the N90s then why not the N80? I thought I read somewhere that the N80 is the only Nikon that can’t use the older lenses. If this is true IMO then that’s reason enough not to bother with one.

Response:

It will be either a used F100 or a new F80.

Why an F80 over an F90x?

Response:

I guess he wants the more advanced AF.  That’s the only thing these two camera have in common that the F90x lacks.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It will be either a used F100 or a new F80. Why an F80 over an F90x?

Response:

The F5 will probably make a much better door stop …. then again, you might be able to throw the F100 farther ….. just depends upon your priorities – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I will probably be slammed by people thinking my reply is rude but here goes: If you have to ask this question you do not need an F5.  An F5 is a professional camera.  It is designed to withstand the rigors of pro use, and have the features we need when on location, regardless of the situation that comes up.  Buy the F100 or possibly the 90s.  Either of these cameras will save you close to $1000, and you can then buy better lenses.  One of the funniest things I see when working is I will be standing there with my F5 and my 80-200 AF-S, and someone will come up to me with an F5 and a tamron 28-200 lens on it and want to talk shop, and he has no clue what an f-stop is. Seriously, save your money, don’t spend it just because you have it.  You will be buying features you will NEVER use! Mike

Response:

Hey greg, If you are going to recommend the N90s then why not the N80?  Wouldn’t it be more for the money for someone shopping around for the N90s?

Following this line of logic, I suggest an N65 or a used EM. — Tony Polson

Response:

…or a $15 used Nikon L35AF.  The AF is certainly fast enough. ;^)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey greg, If you are going to recommend the N90s then why not the N80? Wouldn’t it be more for the money for someone shopping around for the N90s? Following this line of logic, I suggest an N65 or a used EM. — Tony Polson

Response:

Hey greg, If you are going to recommend the N90s then why not the N80?

I thought I read somewhere that the N80 is the only Nikon that can’t use the older lenses. If this is true IMO then that’s reason enough not to bother with one.

Response:

I am not upset. I just wanted to point out some thing you didn’t mention. No offense intended. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Relax, he didn’t say what he needed the camera to do.  He just asked if the F5 was worth the money.  You act like I insulted your mother — not your camera.  Jeez. The F5 has every feature available to a 35mm camera (as far as I know). You can do everything photographic with it.  The F100 has limitations. To me the F5 is cheaper than the F100 because of a few features it has over the F100.  The easily swappable focusing screens, mirror lock-up, interchangeable viewfinders, and 100% viewfinder are all virtually priceless features.  I believe the F100 lacks DOF preview though I cannot be sure at the moment.  Personally I would think Nikon could include at least a few of these features considering how expensive the F100 is.  If you can cough up enough for the F100 then keep coughing until you get the F5 in your hands. There are two advantages to the F100, weight and price. If you need MLU, 100% viewfinder, etc go for the F5. If weight is an issue, the F100 is a great camera body. BTW the F100 has DOF preview.

– Tom Thackrey tom at creative-light.com www.creative-light.com —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

I will probably be slammed by people thinking my reply is rude but here goes: If you have to ask this question you do not need an F5.  An F5 is a professional camera.  It is designed to withstand the rigors of pro use, and have the features we need when on location, regardless of the situation that comes up.  Buy the F100 or possibly the 90s.  Either of these cameras will save you close to $1000, and you can then buy better lenses.  One of the funniest things I see when working is I will be standing there with my F5 and my 80-200 AF-S, and someone will come up to me with an F5 and a tamron 28-200 lens on it and want to talk shop, and he has no clue what an f-stop is. Seriously, save your money, don’t spend it just because you have it.  You will be buying features you will NEVER use! Mike

Response:

I am planning to buy a new Nikon camra, question is if the F5 ist worth its money? The F100 is a cheaper and is it not as goog as the F5?

In some ways the F100 is better than the F5.  They are slightly different cameras, aimed at a slightly different market. The F5 is the latest development of the professional F range, starting with the 1959 Nikon F.  Like all its predecessors it has a 100% viewfinder, mirror lock up and easily interchangeable finders and focusing screens. The F100 is the latest development of the line that began with the F801 (N8008 in USA) and advanced through the F801s (N8008s), F90 (N90) and F90X (N90s) to the F100.  Whilst the F801 was aimed at amateurs, it was attractive to pros as a more compact body than its contemporary in the F range, the bulky and heavy F4, so it was perfectly logical to develop the camera into the pro tool the F100 is. The F100 has a 96% viewfinder, no mirror lock up and a limited range of focusing screens which are not very easy to change. The other differences are mainly in the metering; the F5 has RGB Matrix metering whereas the F100 has the most advanced version of Nikon’s 3D Matrix metering.  Both are state of the art metering systems, they are just different.  The F5 has the reputation of getting the exposure right all the time, and the F100 nearly all of the time, but I would hesitate to conclude that one is significantly better than the other. If you want a pro system SLR with easily interchangeable viewfinders and screens, or mirror lock up is essential to you, or RGB matrix metering attracts you, go for the F5.  If a lighter, more compact body (even with the MB-15 battery pack attached) attracts you, and mirror lock up is not absolutely vital, go for the F100. There is no wrong choice here; neither is "better".  Both are amongst the finest 35mm SLR cameras made; both are high quality rugged pro tools; both can help a good photographer produce outstanding results.   It’s a choice that many of us would like to have.  Good luck! — Tony Polson

Response:

Let’s take an F5 and make it run at 4.5 fps instead of 8.  Then let’s get rid of the interchangeable prism and make it a fixed prism.  Take away MLU and the color matrix meter, and you should be left with a camera that’s about $700+ cheaper.  Sounds like an F100?  Keep DOF in all modes however and add red color to hilite the area being focused on and the F100 seems quite reasonable. — Wes Jansen Feather Foto LaConner, WA

Personally I would think Nikon could – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – include at least a few of these features considering how expensive the F100 is.

Response:

Relax, he didn’t say what he needed the camera to do.  He just asked if the F5 was worth the money.  You act like I insulted your mother — not your camera.  Jeez.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The F5 has every feature available to a 35mm camera (as far as I know). You can do everything photographic with it.  The F100 has limitations. To me the F5 is cheaper than the F100 because of a few features it has over the F100.  The easily swappable focusing screens, mirror lock-up, interchangeable viewfinders, and 100% viewfinder are all virtually priceless features.  I believe the F100 lacks DOF preview though I cannot be sure at the moment.  Personally I would think Nikon could include at least a few of these features considering how expensive the F100 is.  If you can cough up enough for the F100 then keep coughing until you get the F5 in your hands. There are two advantages to the F100, weight and price. If you need MLU, 100% viewfinder, etc go for the F5. If weight is an issue, the F100 is a great camera body. BTW the F100 has DOF preview. — Tom Thackrey tom at creative-light.com www.creative-light.com —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Tom There are two advantages to the F100, weight and price. Three, actually: The F100 can be set to focus on the closest of the five autofocus sensors, and the F5 cannot — you have to select a sensor by hand. —

Response:

If you don’t need the AF speed then the Nikon F4 is a really great buy. The Nikon F3 or F2 with a handheld spot-meter would be a good buy too.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The F5 has every feature available to a 35mm camera (as far as I know). You can do everything photographic with it.  The F100 has limitations. To me the F5 is cheaper than the F100 because of a few features it has over the F100.  The easily swappable focusing screens, mirror lock-up, interchangeable viewfinders, and 100% viewfinder are all virtually priceless features.  I believe the F100 lacks DOF preview though I cannot be sure at the moment.  Personally I would think Nikon could include at least a few of these features considering how expensive the F100 is.  If you can cough up enough for the F100 then keep coughing until you get the F5 in your hands. Regards, dat I am planning to buy a new Nikon camra, question is if the F5 ist worth its money? The F100 is a cheaper and is it not as goog as the F5? Ren

Question:

Lawrence, Just as long as you don’t wee on anyone.  :-) Ernie "lawrence" wrote Hi I hope you don’t mind sometimes I like to have a wee prattle! <snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Regards Lawrence

Response:

Come out to Oregon and we’ll go for summer steelies on the Deschutes. Remember, you don’t have to tie your line to your reel! Then we’ll send you out bonefishing with Randall Kaufmann… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  you could possible do without tying your line to your real as that end of the line rarely sees daylight.

Response:

My fly reel holds about 250 metres/yards of line and backing and when 200 yards gets stripped by a fish hooked on a size 14 treble I start running Of course (Ernie from previous reply) others have been known to wee themselves Lawrence — http://www.f-deans.freeserve.co.uk http://www.flytyer.co.uk off my Lily Pad by writing: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Come out to Oregon and we’ll go for summer steelies on the Deschutes. Remember, you don’t have to tie your line to your reel! Then we’ll send you out bonefishing with Randall Kaufmann…  you could possible do without tying your line to your real as that end of the line rarely sees daylight.

Response:

My post was pretty snide. Wasn’t personal! At least when a fish that big strips your spool, you know it’s moving in the opposite direction!

Response:

Hi I hope you don’t mind sometimes I like to have a wee prattle! When I were a lad I remember fishing one day with a stick a cord and a piece of pin for a hook. I had at least three or four knots in the cord when this old codger said to me.  "Son you’ll never catch a fish with that it’s got too many knots in it" Whats knots got to do with it I replied. He said with a smile  "If you hook a fish, every knot between you and the fish is a weak spot. You have at least three or four weak spots, you can guarantee that it will be easier for the bigger fish to break one of these weak spots" "If you can son aim for one knot between you and the fish" I said which one would that be then? "The one that ties on the hook" he grinned and off he went. His legacy left to me all those years ago is with me to this day. Do not have more weak links between you and the fish than you need. I guess it’s impossible to fish with only one knot, between you and the fish, but you can minimise the effect. My fishing setup has a knot joining my line to my reel and a knot joining my line to my hook these two are a necessity. Well almost you could possible do without tying your line to your real as that end of the line rarely sees daylight. In between that (the weak spots) I have a permanently whipped loop on the end of my fly line. This joins to the leader with another loop and that is it! The only other weak spot I have is that I like to prattle every now and then Regards Lawrence — http://www.f-deans.freeserve.co.uk http://www.flytyer.co.uk

Response:

Question:

Can anyone tell me anything about flyfishing in Chincoteague? Guides? Fish running in August? Places to fish? Rent boats? — Steven Locke Spam control: remove the 8 to e-mail

Response:

Can anyone tell me anything about flyfishing in Chincoteague? Guides? Fish running in August? Places to fish? Rent boats?

Best thing I can offer is a maybe.   I know that Kevin Johansen is well regarded as a guide on the lower Chesapeake, but I don’t know if he goes over to Chincoteague.   I don’t have his number handy, but if you don’t get any better leads, let me know & I’ll dig it up. Joe F.

Response:

Question:

I’m mighty afraid one Frank will be holding on for dear life as a huge smallie heads for the Bay and the other Frank will be up at the camp store and up to no good with Katy! Watch out Frank!  Her husband has a gun….a BIG gun!

    My wife says to go for it either way, crab bait in the bay or human colander.  Sumpin’ about my GI life insurance thats good till the end of the month and the other policies I signed for the new job and house.  Is there a way I can combine the two and go out in a true blaze of glory?     BTW folks, I want to let you know that I will be celebrating this weekend.  I just got my grades in from my Capstone course for my Masters Degree.  Dun aced it.  I now be edumakated.  Will have that sheepskin in January.  But no more studying, just paperwork.  So if you see me late at night by the river projectile chumming, its just an old college tradition.  If its done into a noisy drum set, its an act of God d;)                                  Frank Reid Before you buy.

Response:

Frank, one of the few things at the camp store is ICE! Good chance I’ll be rolling in Saturday evening for some action (smallies not Katy).  I don’t want to get there and find some Frank in my favorite — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

Response:

Congratulations Frank!  Boy, just what we need, another overeducated newbie yuppie in the middle of the river waving a long stick around!! <G — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     My wife says to go for it either way, crab bait in the bay or human colander.  Sumpin’ about my GI life insurance thats good till the end of the month and the other policies I signed for the new job and house.  Is there a way I can combine the two and go out in a true blaze of glory?     BTW folks, I want to let you know that I will be celebrating this weekend.  I just got my grades in from my Capstone course for my Masters Degree.  Dun aced it.  I now be edumakated.  Will have that sheepskin in January.  But no more studying, just paperwork.  So if you see me late at night by the river projectile chumming, its just an old college tradition.  If its done into a noisy drum set, its an act of God d;)                                  Frank Reid

Response:

Your mention of visiting Katy brings rise (no pun intended) to a question of replenishing ice in my 60qt backbreaker cooler…do they got some, and could I get some from Katy (ice!)  In the scenario mentioned below, while I appreciate you even imagining me fooling around with a woman probably 1/3rd my age, I prefer to be the guy hanging on for dear life with the smallie, being drug out to sea.  An ass full of buckshot ain’t the way I wanna go!!  I’d love to go to dinner with you guys Wayne, but if it means not fishing during the best time of the day, on top with poppers or hoppers, I’ll pass.  No offense intended.  Man, I got some viscious looking black RabbitStripFlashers tied up, can’t wait. Frank (only one hole in my butt and I wanna keep it that way) Church

|In article | BTW, I’m in for Saturday night (hooray!).   There will be three of |us: me, | fishin’ buddy (Craig), & BIL(Mike).   Hope to get set up by dark. |Start the | campfire & chill the beer. | | Joe F. | |Will you guys be having dinner after you set-up or on the way in? |Frank and Frank will already be there but I won’t be able to get there |until around 6 pm.  If you’re eating on the way in we can get together |in Fredericksburg.  We might even be able to entice F&F to join us if |we can pry them off the river!  I’m mighty afraid one Frank will be |holding on for dear life as a huge smallie heads for the Bay and the |other Frank will be up at the camp store and up to no good with Katy! |Watch out Frank!  Her husband has a gun….a BIG gun! | |– |Wayne (no need to distinguish between Franks in the preceeding remarks) |To fish is human….To release Divine! | | |Before you buy.

Response:

BTW, I’m in for Saturday night (hooray!).   There will be three of us: me, fishin’ buddy (Craig), & BIL(Mike).   Hope to get set up by dark. Start the campfire & chill the beer. Joe F.

Will you guys be having dinner after you set-up or on the way in? Frank and Frank will already be there but I won’t be able to get there until around 6 pm.  If you’re eating on the way in we can get together in Fredericksburg.  We might even be able to entice F&F to join us if we can pry them off the river!  I’m mighty afraid one Frank will be holding on for dear life as a huge smallie heads for the Bay and the other Frank will be up at the camp store and up to no good with Katy! Watch out Frank!  Her husband has a gun….a BIG gun! — Wayne (no need to distinguish between Franks in the preceeding remarks) To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

Will you guys be having dinner after you set-up or on the way in? Frank and Frank will already be there but I won’t be able to get there until around 6 pm.  If you’re eating on the way in we can get together in Fredericksburg.

Hoping to get on the road by 5 p.m. and in the campground by 8.   Dinner in F’burg sounds good; but I’d really like to get set up by dark.   We’ll get there quicker if we just pick up clown food off the Rt 3 exit.   Or, we may pack food to go.   Or, SWMBO may insist on an early dinner w/ family (in which case departure time is wont to slip a bit).   If we make good time getting there, we may be able to grab a bite after setting up, but that’s too last-minute for you to plan dinner around. I’m still pulling it all together with the two guys on this end.   I played the BIL card masterfully, BTW.   It was SWMBO who suggested leaving Saturday (well okay, if you think that’s best <g). I’m psyched. Joe F.

Response:

departure time is wont to slip a bit).   If we make good time getting there, we may be able to grab a bite after setting up, but that’s too last- minute for you to plan dinner around. I’m still pulling it all together with the two guys on this end.   I played the BIL card masterfully, BTW.   It was SWMBO who suggested leaving Saturday (well okay, if you think that’s best <g). I’m psyched. Joe F.

OK!  See you at the campground.  I’m going to try to get over early enough to grab an hour or so on the river with popping bugs.  About an hour or so before you get there, and maybe you will be able to hear the ruckus while you’re setting up, the river should virtually ERUPT with rising small mouth!  Water levels look perfect and conditions should be ideal.  Cool nights, warm days , and with luck a tinge in cloudiness from a thundershower Friday night. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

Okay, okay…..I’ll make some notes and have the wife quiz me and I’ll learn all the hook names, sizes and numbers…….but I have on occasion tied with – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Good to hear that Wayne, didja cut some of that tail off?  I tole you those green monsters ketch smallies!  I *will* shorten the tails on the rest of mine.  BTW, I tied up a couple of monster black rabbit strip jobbies today, will do a few more over the weekend.  Thanks for the report, I’m still pumped!  The animals in question should have no fear since Dave LaCourse won’t be there.  (unless Frank Jr has weird inclinations we don’t know about, yet) ) Frank Church Elkhart, IN I started off |with one of Frank Church’s rabbit fur concoctions (large size) and had 2 |SAVAGE strikes in 2 casts!!  No hook-ups as they were striking short on the |long tail.  I switched to a Murray’s Lead-eyed Hellgrammite and took 5 small |mouth without leaving the same ledge and not walking more than 15 feet. Two |were over 14".  Now, this was in the first 30 minutes of fishing today. For |the rest of this trip report, you’ll have to listen to it at the Great |Rappahannock River Rendevouz August 20!

Response:

The animals in question should have no fear since Dave LaCourse won’t be there.  (unless Frank Jr has weird inclinations we don’t know about, yet) )

      Those inclinations are considered perfectly normal in the area of Los Angeles that I grew up.       Frank, took your fly and tied it in black with a shorter tail on a stinger hook with dumbell eyes.  I kept hearing about hellgrammites and black clousers so I figured your pattern would be awesome used the same way.  We’ll see about it when we get there.      I now have a wading staff.  I went to a local ski shop and they gave me an old banged up ski pole for free.  (okay, I begged a little). I figure the only disadvantage to it is it won’t collapse (but I may).      I’m definately getting psyched for this trip.  See you all there.                   Frank Reid Before you buy.

Response:

Cool Frank…after I sent the post asking Wayne if he shortened the rabbit strip, I thought to tie a stinger hook in tandem and somehow thread it thru the rabbit strip on a piece of 10 lb test line.  Gonna work on it this weekend.  BTW, dusted off the old portable grill and it works just fine…waited a little long to put the match to it after turning on the gas and received a WHOOMP! and a big ball of flame for my stupidity. Lucky I wasn’t leaning over it at the time. :-/ Frank (just call me "no eyebrows") Church

||      Frank, took your fly and tied it in black with a shorter tail on |a stinger hook with dumbell eyes.  I kept hearing about hellgrammites |and black clousers so I figured your pattern would be awesome used the |same way.  We’ll see about it when we get there.

Response:

   You been hanging around Joe Bruce’s Angler’s Edge I see.  Its a nice fly and takes about a third the time that my craw does and probably fishes just as well.  Mine’s cuddlier though.

Yes, and I was remiss to leave Joe’s name off the "Bruce’s Crystal Crayfish". I tied a bunch of ‘em last night while watching the Hill & Bill show.   They’re simple enough for me to tie, and that’s good.   My fly box for the RRR is growing nicely since I’ve been tying an hour or two each day for a week. BTW, I’m in for Saturday night (hooray!).   There will be three of us: me, fishin’ buddy (Craig), & BIL(Mike).   Hope to get set up by dark.   Start the campfire & chill the beer. Joe F. p.s. Wayne H. – Mike is also a black powder shooter.   (As opposed to white powder snorters <g)

Response:

OK Tim…imagine a wooley bugger dressed in Cactus Ice Chenille…I use lead eyes on a keel hook, wrap some .025 lead wire on first 3/4’s on the shank, and instead of the traditional marabou tail, tie in a chartruese rabbit strip, extending it forward and tie off ahead of the eyes.

Sounds very similar to the "Crystal Crayfish" I’m tying up.   Close to a bugger, except the tail is a couple small strips of rabbit & a couple long strands of copper flash.   The body is crystal chenille with lead eyes but no lead wire. Kind of a bastard cross between a wooly bugger & a Clouser minnow.   Tied with root beer colored chenille, it has a decent crayfish look to it. Joe F.

Response:

Sounds very similar to the "Crystal Crayfish" I’m tying up.   Close to a bugger, except the tail is a couple small strips of rabbit & a couple long strands of copper flash.   The body is crystal chenille with lead eyes but no lead wire. Kind of a bastard cross between a wooly bugger & a Clouser minnow. Tied with root beer colored chenille, it has a decent crayfish look to it. Joe F.

   You been hanging around Joe Bruce’s Angler’s Edge I see.  Its a nice fly and takes about a third the time that my craw does and probably fishes just as well.  Mine’s cuddlier though.              Frank Reid Before you buy.

Response:

Yeah Tim, know what you mean with the addiction stuff.  Really, I’m just a newbie tier, been fumbling around with it for about 2 yrs and still can only tie the simple ones and not too good at that.  One thing I have learned tho, the fish don’t give a dang how well you finished the fly if it looks good to eat.  I get all over the place eventually, whereabouts you located?  Come to think of it, if you’re fishing for smallies, send me your snail mail addy and I’ll ship a few over your way. Frank Church

|Frank, Next time your coming through here let me know. Maybe we can hook |up and I can see one of these guys. I am not tieing my own stuff,,,yet, |so I have a vague idea of what your talking about. I am planning on |doing a class through MLFS this fall,next step in the addiction I |reckon? Tim Long | | | OK Tim…imagine a wooley bugger dressed in Cactus Ice Chenille…I |use | lead eyes on a keel hook, wrap some .025 lead wire on first 3/4’s on |the | shank, and instead of the traditional marabou tail, tie in a |chartruese | rabbit strip, extending it forward and tie off ahead of the eyes. The | chartruese worked good for me on the James and Maury, and Wayne Hart | says to tie up some in black for the Rapp.  I’m in the middle of that | now.  I’m also going to incorporate a stinger hook extending back |under | the tail for the short strikers.  BTW, I make my own keel hooks with | judicious use of needlenose pliers on long shank streamer hooks, |either | straight ring eye or down eye.  Nothing fancy here. | | Frank Church | Elkhart, IN | USAF RET. |

| |I would like to hear more of this rabbit fur concoction of yours. If | the | |Rappahanok is fishing like the James you guys should have a great |time. | |Thursday the James was a little stained from the recent rains | |slowing down the top water action but wooly buggers and helgramite | |patterns were producing some nice fish in the riffles. A site I use | |alot, may help some of y’alls planning: | |http://va.water.usgs.gov/rt-cgi/gen_tbl_pg?page=1 | |Tim, wish I could be there, Long | | | | | | | | | | | | Cool Frank…after I sent the post asking Wayne if he shortened the | | rabbit strip, I thought to tie a stinger hook in tandem and somehow | | thread it thru the rabbit strip on a piece of 10 lb test line. |Gonna | | work on it this weekend.  BTW, dusted off the old portable grill |and | |it | | works just fine…waited a little long to put the match to it after | | turning on the gas and received a WHOOMP! and a big ball of flame |for | |my | | stupidity. | | Lucky I wasn’t leaning over it at the time. :-/ | | | | Frank (just call me "no eyebrows") Church | | | | ||      Frank, took your fly and tied it in black with a shorter |tail | |on | | |a stinger hook with dumbell eyes.  I kept hearing about | hellgrammites | | |and black clousers so I figured your pattern would be awesome used | |the | | |same way.  We’ll see about it when we get there. | | | | | | | | | |Before you buy. | | | | |Before you buy.

Response:

Frank, Next time your coming through here let me know. Maybe we can hook up and I can see one of these guys. I am not tieing my own stuff,,,yet, so I have a vague idea of what your talking about. I am planning on doing a class through MLFS this fall,next step in the addiction I reckon? Tim Long – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK Tim…imagine a wooley bugger dressed in Cactus Ice Chenille…I use lead eyes on a keel hook, wrap some .025 lead wire on first 3/4’s on the shank, and instead of the traditional marabou tail, tie in a chartruese rabbit strip, extending it forward and tie off ahead of the eyes.  The chartruese worked good for me on the James and Maury, and Wayne Hart says to tie up some in black for the Rapp.  I’m in the middle of that now.  I’m also going to incorporate a stinger hook extending back under the tail for the short strikers.  BTW, I make my own keel hooks with judicious use of needlenose pliers on long shank streamer hooks, either straight ring eye or down eye.  Nothing fancy here. Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RET. |I would like to hear more of this rabbit fur concoction of yours. If the |Rappahanok is fishing like the James you guys should have a great time. |Thursday the James was a little stained from the recent rains |slowing down the top water action but wooly buggers and helgramite |patterns were producing some nice fish in the riffles. A site I use |alot, may help some of y’alls planning: |http://va.water.usgs.gov/rt-cgi/gen_tbl_pg?page=1 |Tim, wish I could be there, Long | | | | | | Cool Frank…after I sent the post asking Wayne if he shortened the | rabbit strip, I thought to tie a stinger hook in tandem and somehow | thread it thru the rabbit strip on a piece of 10 lb test line. Gonna | work on it this weekend.  BTW, dusted off the old portable grill and |it | works just fine…waited a little long to put the match to it after | turning on the gas and received a WHOOMP! and a big ball of flame for |my | stupidity. | Lucky I wasn’t leaning over it at the time. :-/ | | Frank (just call me "no eyebrows") Church | | ||      Frank, took your fly and tied it in black with a shorter tail |on | |a stinger hook with dumbell eyes.  I kept hearing about hellgrammites | |and black clousers so I figured your pattern would be awesome used |the | |same way.  We’ll see about it when we get there. | | | | |Before you buy.

Before you buy.

Response:

OK Tim…imagine a wooley bugger dressed in Cactus Ice Chenille…I use lead eyes on a keel hook, wrap some .025 lead wire on first 3/4’s on the shank, and instead of the traditional marabou tail, tie in a chartruese rabbit strip, extending it forward and tie off ahead of the eyes.  The chartruese worked good for me on the James and Maury, and Wayne Hart says to tie up some in black for the Rapp.  I’m in the middle of that now.  I’m also going to incorporate a stinger hook extending back under the tail for the short strikers.  BTW, I make my own keel hooks with judicious use of needlenose pliers on long shank streamer hooks, either straight ring eye or down eye.  Nothing fancy here. Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RET.

|I would like to hear more of this rabbit fur concoction of yours. If the |Rappahanok is fishing like the James you guys should have a great time. |Thursday the James was a little stained from the recent rains |slowing down the top water action but wooly buggers and helgramite |patterns were producing some nice fish in the riffles. A site I use |alot, may help some of y’alls planning: |http://va.water.usgs.gov/rt-cgi/gen_tbl_pg?page=1 |Tim, wish I could be there, Long | | | | | | Cool Frank…after I sent the post asking Wayne if he shortened the | rabbit strip, I thought to tie a stinger hook in tandem and somehow | thread it thru the rabbit strip on a piece of 10 lb test line.  Gonna | work on it this weekend.  BTW, dusted off the old portable grill and |it | works just fine…waited a little long to put the match to it after | turning on the gas and received a WHOOMP! and a big ball of flame for |my | stupidity. | Lucky I wasn’t leaning over it at the time. :-/ | | Frank (just call me "no eyebrows") Church |

| ||      Frank, took your fly and tied it in black with a shorter tail |on | |a stinger hook with dumbell eyes.  I kept hearing about hellgrammites | |and black clousers so I figured your pattern would be awesome used |the | |same way.  We’ll see about it when we get there. | | | | |Before you buy.

Response:

I would like to hear more of this rabbit fur concoction of yours. If the Rappahanok is fishing like the James you guys should have a great time. Thursday the James was a little stained from the recent rains slowing down the top water action but wooly buggers and helgramite patterns were producing some nice fish in the riffles. A site I use alot, may help some of y’alls planning: http://va.water.usgs.gov/rt-cgi/gen_tbl_pg?page=1 Tim, wish I could be there, Long – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cool Frank…after I sent the post asking Wayne if he shortened the rabbit strip, I thought to tie a stinger hook in tandem and somehow thread it thru the rabbit strip on a piece of 10 lb test line.  Gonna work on it this weekend.  BTW, dusted off the old portable grill and it works just fine…waited a little long to put the match to it after turning on the gas and received a WHOOMP! and a big ball of flame for my stupidity. Lucky I wasn’t leaning over it at the time. :-/ Frank (just call me "no eyebrows") Church ||      Frank, took your fly and tied it in black with a shorter tail on |a stinger hook with dumbell eyes.  I kept hearing about hellgrammites |and black clousers so I figured your pattern would be awesome used the |same way.  We’ll see about it when we get there.

Before you buy.

Response:

Good to hear that Wayne, didja cut some of that tail off?  I tole you those green monsters ketch smallies!  I *will* shorten the tails on the rest of mine.  BTW, I tied up a couple of monster black rabbit strip jobbies today, will do a few more over the weekend.  Thanks for the report, I’m still pumped!  The animals in question should have no fear since Dave LaCourse won’t be there.  (unless Frank Jr has weird inclinations we don’t know about, yet) ) Frank Church Elkhart, IN

I started off |with one of Frank Church’s rabbit fur concoctions (large size) and had 2 |SAVAGE strikes in 2 casts!!  No hook-ups as they were striking short on the |long tail.  I switched to a Murray’s Lead-eyed Hellgrammite and took 5 small |mouth without leaving the same ledge and not walking more than 15 feet. Two |were over 14".  Now, this was in the first 30 minutes of fishing today. For |the rest of this trip report, you’ll have to listen to it at the Great |Rappahannock River Rendevouz August 20!

Response:

Traveled to the Rappahannock River Campground today.  Water level was ideal, temperature perfect, no one on the water but me (wife wasn’t feeling well so she kept her fly rod at home).  I headed to an area beyond where I usually fish to make sure I had room to spread out as many ROFFians as might show up Sunday week.  The water was gorgeous!  If ever there was a spot on earth made for breeding and raising small mouth bass, this was it!  I started off with one of Frank Church’s rabbit fur concoctions (large size) and had 2 SAVAGE strikes in 2 casts!!  No hook-ups as they were striking short on the long tail.  I switched to a Murray’s Lead-eyed Hellgrammite and took 5 small mouth without leaving the same ledge and not walking more than 15 feet.  Two were over 14".  Now, this was in the first 30 minutes of fishing today.  For the rest of this trip report, you’ll have to listen to it at the Great Rappahannock River Rendevouz August 20! Just so everyone’s got the straight skinny on the site I want you to know what you are getting yourself in for.  Campers can only have one vehicle at their campsite.  Clave Central may not open until 12 noon on the 20th.  I’ll be there by 0700 but the campsite is rented for the night before.  The non-ROFF inhabitants must pack out by noon but may leave earlier.  I’ll move in as soon as they leave.  If Frank and Frank make lewd gaseous noises and molesting motions toward their domestic animals they may be encouraged to leave earlier.  All non-camping fishermen must park by the camp store and walk down to the canoe launching ramp (about 200 yards).  Parking fee is $3.00 per vehicle + $1.00 per person.  I personally feel this may be discriminating against some families who live in their automobiles. Canoe trips are available from the campground.  They provide shuttle service and everything you need for the float.  Conditions are optimal!  By the same token, we can expect some canoe/tube traffic on Saturday and Sunday.  My experience has been this does not really effect the wading fisherman. Kayakers are another story but don’t shoot them this trip as Asadi will probably be out there.  Cornmuse, if you’re thinking of coming, get hold of Asadi now and plan the trip.  You’ll never get a better chance for a super quality small mouth trip. — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

Response:

Question:

Had mine for a bit over two years now, the smallest sized one.  No complaints.  Neat little reel.  However, there are lots of reels of similar quality in this price range.  Ryall has conical components which push against each other as opposed to a disc-type drag.  These components are in a sealed axial drag assembly.

More easily visualized as a sealed drum brake, I think.The "drum" is inside the arbor, and the split conical pieces are the "shoes". On the big Ryalls there’s plenty of stopping power, and you don’t have to worry about sand or saltwater getting inside. I am not into collecting equipment so I don’t expect to purchase another reel in this size range until this one dies.  

The #2 is a cute little fellah. If I didn’t already have a little CFO I’d have probably bought one when Jim first came out with the #2. /daytripper

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The #2 is a cute little fellah. If I didn’t already have a little CFO I’d have probably bought one when Jim first came out with the #2. /daytripper

What????? And you call yourself a gear whore… –Steve

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The #2 is a cute little fellah. If I didn’t already have a little CFO I’d have probably bought one when Jim first came out with the #2. What????? And you call yourself a gear whore…

LOL! No – I don’t. I’m just a victim of soicumstances!

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Yes. I have a #8 and a #10, use them both for saltwater flyfishing (stripers/bluefish). Nothing but good experiences with both. /daytripper

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Response:

 I have the #2 and the #8 and they’re sweet. For the money they’re best modern reels I own. Bob Smith Before you buy.

Response:

Had mine for a bit over two years now, the smallest sized one.  No complaints.  Neat little reel.  However, there are lots of reels of similar quality in this price range.  Ryall has conical components which push against each other as opposed to a disc-type drag.  These components are in a sealed axial drag assembly.  I am not into collecting equipment so I don’t expect to purchase another reel in this size range until this one dies.   Mu

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Question:

Mike Connor: <<Is it my imagination, or is there more bitterness and acrimony than usual on ROFF tonight ? It ain’t your imagination, Mike.  I have let me feud with George Gehrke bleed onto these pages and for that I am sorry.  My apologies to you and to all of ROFFdom. Dave LaCourse

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My father told me a long time ago, "If you cant say something good about somebody, then keep your mouth shut", my father was a very wise man. Unfortunate indeed that I was never able to follow his advice to the letter. However this may be, anybody fancy a try ?  We are a common interest group, with an extremely broad base, but we ought to be able to agree on something. What is it ? Any suggestions ? Why are we here ? What do we wish to achieve

You’re right Mike, lifes too fricking short and time astream is not enough…. So I’ll start…. George, I’ll say this for you positively , you’ve got balls and I admire that quality in you. Wayne Knight (remove nospam to respond via mail) Expert in the creation of  wind knots and tailing loops.

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I’m up for it Mike. Tim Apple — "Bamboo is Better"

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I like this idea! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would make an alternative proposal: That each and every single one of us just shuts up and goes fishing for a few days. That’s right.. starting, say Wednesday night (Greenwich time, minus five hours) nobody posts to ROFF until they’ve spent at least two consecutive days fishing.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is it my imagination, or is there more bitterness and acrimony than usual on ROFF tonight ? You know, one of the main reasons I am more or less hopelessly addicted to this place, is that it removes me from my not inconsiderable everyday problems and worries, much as fishing itself does, although in a different way.  I feel I know many of you, far more intimately than one might imagine, given the intrinsic limitations. This is a very strange medium, and I wonder what exciting new aspects of humanity will arise from it. Hopefully not just negative ones. At the moment the medium is restricted to those with the wherewithal and intelligence to participate, this is however increasing daily, and will hopefully result in considerably improved communications on a wide scale.  It seems almost sacrilegious to waste such an opportunity with petty personal feuds. When  I see you kicking the verbal shit out of each other, however justified this may seem to be to the one or the other at the time, it actually hurts me personally, to my own surprise and consternation. I would dearly love to know the reason. Distance and lack of personal knowledge are not sufficient to explain this. Whatever,  I would like to propose a "be nice on ROFF week ". This does not even require any positive effort on the part of the participants. My father told me a long time ago, "If you cant say something good about somebody, then keep your mouth shut", my father was a very wise man. Unfortunate indeed that I was never able to follow his advice to the letter. However this may be, anybody fancy a try ?  We are a common interest group, with an extremely broad base, but we ought to be able to agree on something. What is it ? Any suggestions ? Why are we here ? What do we wish to achieve ? I am genuinely interested, what keeps us here ? Why do we continue in the face of sometimes frightful insults and aspersions ? Things that in normal life would result in at least a riot ? Give it some thought. Tight lines ! Mike Connor

What keeps me coming back as a newbie is I’m addicted to flyfishing and this is my fishing when I can’t be on the water (which is most of the time .) I love this sport and I enjoy reading this ng. I’ve learned quite a bit in the short time that I’ve been here and I hope to learn a hell of a lot more. I plan on being here for a long time. I’ve also really enjoyed your stories too Mike, I actually sit down here and wonder what you’ve written this time. Thanks and keep up the great stories. Tight lines, Darin

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Thanks Darin, my pleasure, glad you enjoy them. TL MC

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I think if you re-sort the list by sender (or by thread, for that matter) you’ll see the vocal "WE" are small in number and the frequent posters are repetitive in nature, especially on certain subjects. I attempt to limit myself to the threads of genuine interest to me, reviewing the new posts by: 1) Topic 2) Sender 3) Lines and then determine what I really want to read…after reading those, I then choose "MARK ALL READ" and go away until some later time. What keeps me here?  About 3% of the posts….. Larry #:)# Enjoy the eclipse, those of you that get to see it live….for us on the West Coast of the US, it’s on www.exploratorium.edu beginning at 3am PST. Hey Mike….do you get TWO evening hatches today????  =8^0

Response:

Is it my imagination, or is there more bitterness and acrimony than usual on ROFF tonight ? You know, one of the main reasons I am more or less hopelessly addicted to this place, is that it removes me from my not inconsiderable everyday problems and worries, much as fishing itself does, although in a different way.  I feel I know many of you, far more intimately than one might imagine, given the intrinsic limitations. This is a very strange medium, and I wonder what exciting new aspects of humanity will arise from it. Hopefully not just negative ones. At the moment the medium is restricted to those with the wherewithal and intelligence to participate, this is however increasing daily, and will hopefully result in considerably improved communications on a wide scale.  It seems almost sacrilegious to waste such an opportunity with petty personal feuds. When  I see you kicking the verbal shit out of each other, however justified this may seem to be to the one or the other at the time, it actually hurts me personally, to my own surprise and consternation. I would dearly love to know the reason. Distance and lack of personal knowledge are not sufficient to explain this. Whatever,  I would like to propose a "be nice on ROFF week ". This does not even require any positive effort on the part of the participants. My father told me a long time ago, "If you cant say something good about somebody, then keep your mouth shut", my father was a very wise man. Unfortunate indeed that I was never able to follow his advice to the letter. However this may be, anybody fancy a try ?  We are a common interest group, with an extremely broad base, but we ought to be able to agree on something. What is it ? Any suggestions ? Why are we here ? What do we wish to achieve ? I am genuinely interested, what keeps us here ? Why do we continue in the face of sometimes frightful insults and aspersions ? Things that in normal life would result in at least a riot ? Give it some thought. Tight lines ! Mike Connor

Response:

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– When  I see you kicking the verbal shit out of each other, however justified this may seem to be to the one or the other at the time, it actually hurts me personally, to my own surprise and consternation. I would dearly love to know the reason.

I don’t know about how things have been where you are, but for the last few weeks it’s been unbearably hot in parts of the US. Hot weather for long stretches tends to shorten tempers, I’ve noticed. It might also be that you’re normally a peacemaker type and thus more likely to notice such things. It could be multiple threads going on about topics that are controversial here, such as C&R or dam breeching, or unpleasant ones such as the guy who won’t shut up about the Hardy reel on ebay. Whatever,  I would like to propose a "be nice on ROFF week ". This does not even require any positive effort on the part of the participants.

I’m game. Of course, I’m going to be offline for a few weeks with dreams of wetting a line in the St. Joseph river than the Florida Intracoastal Waterway, so it won’t be hard for me to refrain from online rudeness. I am genuinely interested, what keeps us here ? Why do we continue in the face of sometimes frightful insults and aspersions ? Things that in normal life would result in at least a riot ?

I can think of a couple of reasons. For one thing, we’ve a swarm of curmudgeonly bastards here. Old-fashioned gentlemen, and young folks who aspire to be old curmudgeonly bastards someday. In crowds like that, a certain amount of shit-slinging is practically background noise in that you notice it only when it stops. The reason why several of us have Golden Retrievers is that few of us are like them. Not to mention, we do have that common interest: fishing. Fishing is pretty fundamental, and helps to moderate the worst of the virtual carnage. At any rate, I don’t see ROFF becoming a love-in. If nothing else, I would dearly like to not see any single one of you naked. I’m sorry, but my tastes are limited to women within four years of my ripe old practically senile 23. I doubt that any of you qualify. I would make an alternative proposal: That each and every single one of us just shuts up and goes fishing for a few days. That’s right.. starting, say Wednesday night (Greenwich time, minus five hours) nobody posts to ROFF until they’ve spent at least two consecutive days fishing. Look at it this way: We’re all either abrasive old bastards or abrasive young bastards. How do you thing George picked the name for his fly rod project? You can’t stuff twenty of them into one newsgroup without at least a little friction. And yet, when you got a bunch of them into the same room, what did they do? They drank, laughed, went fishing, and drank some more. And if we ever decide to have one in the midwest or the Rockies (or I can figure out travel to NC), I’d be there in a heartbeat. Even after having friction with some of the other people likely to be there, what’s the worst that could happen? That I’d have to drink with fellow fishermen? Please don’t throw this here po’ b’rer rabbit inta that mean ol’ briar patch! —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBN7E52ckBcsCVVLK5AQFlxwQAib10NUq3IcFIDOofXN3xhP77O63ihWXB LBNuADgWBCyJboFoY6/yzLwmRA+g8IOlPPeW5UGIzxJGmD3ebHiE47+oGNrtdLtN v4v2E1ouzd6Fkf4ybdLtam9J2bmll7iit8ylAChDfQ2wmEN6KWdAyUc4I+oJ44KS QSaCeykGu8Q= =QnA3 —–END PGP SIGNATURE—– God invented beer and fishing so that 20-something Kansas Jayhawkers wouldn’t take over the world -me

Response:

Question:

I’m new to still water fly fishing, and am in the market for a float tube or equivalent.  Several of my local fly shops are pushing the Outcast PAC 66 Fat Cat ($269).  What do you think of this design?  You sit higher in the water than in a typical float tube or V-boat – which has the advantage of keeping you drier and warmer.  Wouldn’t you be blown around more with a higher profile?  Are there other devices that are better for the same price? Is it really worth paying $100 for Force Fins? Thanks in advance. Steve

Response:

I’m new to still water fly fishing, and am in the market for a float tube or equivalent.  Several of my local fly shops are pushing the Outcast PAC 66 Fat Cat ($269).  What do you think of this design?  You sit higher in the water than in a typical float tube or V-boat – which has the advantage of keeping you drier and warmer.  Wouldn’t you be blown around more with a higher profile?  Are there other devices that are better for the same price? Is it really worth paying $100 for Force Fins?

Hi Steve; Sorry, but I can’t help you with the boat question.  Nor have I ever used force fins.  But I did buy myself a cheap pair of fins from K-Mart or some such for about $20 and found them to be very satisfactory.  These are the type of fins routinely worn by scuba divers.  They have a very large fin surface and have a pocket designed to fit over the entire foot.  Of course, this means they are not adjustable so you will have to buy two pair if you intend to go wet sometimes and in waders at others.  You would still be $60 ahead of the game.  Once, when I left my fins at home, I borrowed a pair of Caddis fins from a friend.  These were the type that strap on over a wading boot.  I was appalled at how hard I had to work in order to move at all with these fins.  It wasn’t much better than having none at all.  The cheap scuba style fins, on the other hand, allow me to move my U-shaped boat at a pace which lets me to keep up with anyone I’ve fished with and with only moderate effort. It seems to me that the critical difference between the two styles is the length of the blade.  All else being equal, a longer blade on the fin will make propulsion a lot easier. Good luck.

Response:

Steve: Like Wolfgang, I don’t have much ability to comment on the benefits of a FatCat, but unlike Wolfgang, I can say I would NEVER trade my Force Fins for anything else. Yes, I was appalled at the price, but having tried more conventional fins, the difference is like night & day. If a little wind picks up, you’ll appreciate having every little bit of extra power. BTW, I have a U-boat from The Creek Co., and have been very happy with it. Good value for the price – mail order from Cabela’s. (or maybe Bass Pro Shop, can’t remember which) I’m new to still water fly fishing, and am in the market for a float tube or equivalent.  Several of my local fly shops are pushing the Outcast PAC 66 Fat Cat ($269).  What do you think of this design?  You sit higher in the water than in a typical float tube or V-boat – which has the advantage of keeping you drier and warmer.  Wouldn’t you be blown around more with a higher profile?  Are there other devices that are better for the same price? Is it really worth paying $100 for Force Fins?

Richard Menlo Park, CA Remove "spambegone" or "nospam" from e-mail address for direct reply

Response:

See if Cabela’s still has that great deal on the original Clear Creek U-boat. I think I paid $119 and they throw in the Clear Creek fins.  The fins are good quality but won’t accept wading boots and without a small boot like the Flats you’ll scrunch your toes. Steve C

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m new to still water fly fishing, and am in the market for a float tube or equivalent.  Several of my local fly shops are pushing the Outcast PAC 66 Fat Cat ($269).  What do you think of this design?  You sit higher in the water than in a typical float tube or V-boat – which has the advantage of keeping you drier and warmer.  Wouldn’t you be blown around more with a higher profile?  Are there other devices that are better for the same price? Is it really worth paying $100 for Force Fins? Thanks in advance. Steve

Response:

Steve,     I have the Force Fins for use with my Wading Boots. I also have Contact Scuba Fins. While I get more thrust from the Contacts I find I don’t use them any more since I got my Force Fins. The Force allow me to keep from tearing up the bottom of my waders while loading my pontoon boat and they are much easier to put on. The main difference I notice is that the Scuba fins provide the most thrust on the down stroke and the Force fins on the up stroke. For me this means that I have less fatigue in my legs at the end of the day. As for the FatCat, I have talked with two or three people who have them and I think I will probably purchase one for myself. At about 7 lbs they are light enough to pack in (My Pontoon weighs in at 35 lbs.) and they will hold my weight 300+. They are actually easier to kick than a typical u-boat or tube because of the bottom on them. This allows for better water movement under you when you kick. Yes they may be a little harder to use in the wind but this can be easily taken care of with a plastic grocery bag tied to a small string and attached to a d-ring. Gary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m new to still water fly fishing, and am in the market for a float tube or equivalent.  Several of my local fly shops are pushing the Outcast PAC 66 Fat Cat ($269).  What do you think of this design?  You sit higher in the water than in a typical float tube or V-boat – which has the advantage of keeping you drier and warmer.  Wouldn’t you be blown around more with a higher profile?  Are there other devices that are better for the same price? Is it really worth paying $100 for Force Fins? Thanks in advance. Steve

Response:

I’m new to still water fly fishing, and am in the market for a float tube or equivalent.  Several of my local fly shops are pushing the Outcast PAC 66 Fat Cat ($269).  What do you think of this design?  You sit higher in the water than in a typical float tube or V-boat – which has the advantage of keeping you drier and warmer.  Wouldn’t you be blown around more with a higher profile?  Are there other devices that are better for the same price? Is it really worth paying $100 for Force Fins? Thanks in advance. Steve

I own a Super Fat Cat and love it.  I was fishing a lake last year that is notorious for the wind kicking up around noon.  The wind kicked up a little early this day (10:00) and I was barely able to paddle back to the launching area.  There were many tubers fishing and they were all blown off the water except for this one guy who just kept on fishing. I hung around a while to get a look at what he was fishing in and it was an Outcast Super Fat Cat.  I rented one the next trip to this lake and loved it. I noticed that it moves a lot faster for the same kick than any other U/V boat I have tried.  I highly recommend the Super Fat Cat.  I would also have to recommend the Force Fins as well.  I haven’t used a fin that gives as much as a push that is so easy to push through the water.  Even on lakes where the white-caps are racing accross the surface, my legs don’t cramp at the end of the day. It is true that the Super Fat Cat and Fat Cat have you sit higher  and are therefore more exposed to the wind, but it also reduces the amount of water that must be displaced to move the boat.  My experience is that the Super Fat Cat with Force Fins is a great combination for a windy lake. — John Strock `)))<               <`)))<                    <`)))<

        <`)))<   <     `)))<          <`)))<     `)))<                  <`)))<              `)))<

Response:

Gary: Could you explain this setup a little more fully?  I’m curious how the string is attached to the bag & how the mouth of the bag stays open. them. This allows for better water movement under you when you kick. Yes they may be a little harder to use in the wind but this can be easily taken care of with a plastic grocery bag tied to a small string and attached to a d-ring. Gary

Richard Menlo Park, CA Remove "spambegone" or "nospam" from e-mail address for direct reply

Response:

The way I used it was to simply tie a small bridal to each of the handles. It ends up working similar to a parachute. If you have troubles keeping the mouth open you can make a frame on the mouth with some drinking straws and scotch tape to hold them to the bag. Since there isn’t much water pressure this might work better. Gary — — LEGAL NOTICE: Anyone sending unsolicited commercial email to this address will be charged a $500 proofreading fee. This is an official notification; failure to abide by this will result in legal action, as per the following: By U.S. Code Title 47, Sec.227(a)(2)(B), a computer/modem/printer meets the definition of a telephone fax machine. By Sec.227(b)(1)(C), it is unlawful to send any unsolicited advertisement to such equipment. By Sec.227(b)(3)(C), a violation of the aforementioned Section is punishable by action to recover actual monetary loss, or $500, whichever is greater, by each violation.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gary: Could you explain this setup a little more fully?  I’m curious how the string is attached to the bag & how the mouth of the bag stays open. them. This allows for better water movement under you when you kick. Yes they may be a little harder to use in the wind but this can be easily taken care of with a plastic grocery bag tied to a small string and attached to a d-ring. Gary Richard Menlo Park, CA Remove "spambegone" or "nospam" from e-mail address for direct reply

Response:

Question:

I recommend a 16 ft Mad River Explorer.

Me too. I don’t know how far around the block this conversation has gone, but for my way over 2-cents worth of experience goes, there is NO better all around boat (considering performance, versatility, cost, looks, maintenance, etc) than the 16 foot MR Explorer.  Period.  Anyone buying a canoe should plan an spending a little more for this boat as a starter, then expect to never need to buy another all-around canoe again. See my sig file. — riverman I think, therefore I thwim. Carpe ropum. "There is NO better all around boat (considering performance, versatility, cost, looks, maintenance, etc) than the 16 foot MR Explorer. Period."

Response:

I love Mad River boats BUT one might get a little argument about the Explorer being the best all rounder from Swift Kipawa fans. who would suggest that the Kipawa is more stable more speedy (and faster too) more capacious more maneuverable more white water capable more seaworthy and more perttier. — Lyle

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recommend a 16 ft Mad River Explorer. Me too. I don’t know how far around the block this conversation has gone, but for my way over 2-cents worth of experience goes, there is NO better all around boat (considering performance, versatility, cost, looks, maintenance, etc) than the 16 foot MR Explorer.  Period.  Anyone buying a canoe should plan an spending a little more for this boat as a starter, then expect to never need to buy another all-around canoe again. See my sig file. — riverman I think, therefore I thwim. Carpe ropum. "There is NO better all around boat (considering performance, versatility, cost, looks, maintenance, etc) than the 16 foot MR Explorer. Period."

Response:

I recommend a 16 ft Mad River Explorer. Me too. I don’t know how far around the block this conversation has gone, but for my way over 2-cents worth of experience goes, there is NO better all around boat (considering performance, versatility, cost, looks, maintenance, etc) than the 16 foot MR Explorer.  Period.  Anyone buying a canoe should plan an spending a little more for this boat as a starter, then expect to never need to buy another all-around canoe again. See my sig file.

If you want one boat that will do everything, I agree (though I haven’t tried the Swift).  If you want a boat for primarily or exclusively flatwater, then there are better choices out there in composite/fiberglass/kevlar — Andrew

Response:

I recommend a 16 ft Mad River Explorer.

It’s been a while since I purchased my first boat, and I don’t know much about what’s out there, but my general comment would be buy the best boat you can afford.  Don’t spare the horses.  Talk to people in a local canoe and kayak club, and get their recommendations on brands. Tell them what you want to do with the boat–that’s the important part.

Response:

I recommend a 16 ft Mad River Explorer. It’s been a while since I purchased my first boat, and I don’t know much about what’s out there, but my general comment would be buy the best boat you can afford.  Don’t spare the horses.  Talk to people in a local canoe and kayak club, and get their recommendations on brands. Tell them what you want to do with the boat–that’s the important part.

I’ve been a kayaker for a while now, but just recently my new girlfriend wanted a canoe for us.  Have been looking for a used Royalite, or Royalex canoe for a couple months — just today we found it! I consulted with other canoe-types in the club, and this Mohawk Nova 16 (or other similar brands/models) seemed to do it all.  It is Royalex.  This is the exact one we got today, used for $500 with four float bags.  Boats like this are sort of "Do It All" dealies. Each time some new person asks "Which Canoe should i get?" i always say ‘Buy a used, decent brand’ and this is the first time i’ve had to try it out. We like this boat!

Response:

I recommend a 16 ft Mad River Explorer. I own both an Old Town Discovery and the Explorer, and find the Old Town is too heavy to carry any distance (not to mention lift). The Explorer is lighter, handles better, and yes, it’s easier on the eyes. The Discovery might plow through rocks better, but takes on water in the slightest chops. I used to own a Coleman, I’m glad it died an ugly rocky death long ago. http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Rapids/5189/index.htm Reach out and touch a rock – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello! I realize that this has probably been beaten to death until some are sick of it, but being new to this group, thought I’d seek some advice anyway. Am going to buy a canoe this spring, & am in a quandry about the wisest choice, while still keeping to a reasonable price. Having seen very few used canoes for sale in my area, so looks like it might be a new canoe. I plan to use the canoe for hitting some lakes in my region with my sons….do some fly fishing, canoe camp occasionally, that type of thing. If the canoe I end up getting is worthy, the canoe might see some river use (probably nothing worse than Class II, possibly a little Class III, but maybe not), & might also make it to such places as Bowron Lakes & Myrtle Lake in B.C. for more extended canoe camping & paddling (with more portages, a person should start looking at weight….now the cost of the lighter canoes jumps up & introduces itself). I’ve looked at Old Town, Wenonah, Mad River, etc. A person could spend $1000 – $1400 for one of their lighter canoes, or could pay ~$700 for an Old Town Discovery that would suit the bill, but is somewhat heavier. Might also look at a Marathon, Grumman, Osagian, or Alumaweld aluminum canoe as well in that price range. Money being an object here, the price of a Coleman canoe (go ahead, let me have it!) locally is $269 – $319 looks pretty attractive. I know the Coleman would be a rugged, durable canoe. Trying to decide if it’s wiser to get a lighter, more quality designed canoe that would be more versatile in the long term, even if I have to charge !/2 of it or more, or pay cash for something like a Coleman since I’m fairly new to the sport, & would welcome advice from those who have already made such decisions. Would also welcome info about used canoes for sale where freight to eastern Washington wouldn’t be a deterrant. Thanks!

Response:

The coleman is a good boat for short paddles around a quiet lake once in a while

With a dang, clanging Coleman, the lake’s not going to stay quiet for long. It’s practically a percussion instrument Eddy "Colemans are for keeping beer cool" Rapid.

Response:

It sounds like you’ve been doing your research.  I agree with all your points. About three years ago, I faced the same question.  Like you, I wanted the best for the least.  I purchased a OT Disco158.  I like it fine but if I had the opportunity to make that decision again, I would save a little more money and by the lighter boat with a more efficient hull.  I use it mostly for day paddling with my wife or fishing with my children.  I’ve run a class III in it but don’t suggest it.  I’ve paddled it 32 miles through the Okeefenokee swamp and camped out of it.  I am not interested in getting rid of it but, would not buy another. I understand the Disco169 has a more efficient hull but, it weighs in at a hefty 85lbs. You will find that weight makes more of a difference than you think.  I can car-top my 80lb canoe by myself but "it ain’t pretty."  The yolk makes it easier to carry but it still weighs 80lbs.  A lighter canoe will respond better to corrections/steering and may even be a little faster. If you can stand to wait, I’d recommend it.  You’ll just end up wanting to buy different one in a few years.  I would have by now but I am discovering both sea and whitewater kayaks! Oh yeah, one other thing.  If you really think you’re going to enjoy the sport, don’t give the Coleman too much thought.  You really DO get what you pay for in a canoe. Eric da Grate – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello! I realize that this has probably been beaten to death until some are sick of it, but being new to this group, thought I’d seek some advice anyway. Am going to buy a canoe this spring, & am in a quandry about the wisest choice, while still keeping to a reasonable price. Having seen very few used canoes for sale in my area, so looks like it might be a new canoe. I plan to use the canoe for hitting some lakes in my region with my sons….do some fly fishing, canoe camp occasionally, that type of thing. If the canoe I end up getting is worthy, the canoe might see some river use (probably nothing worse than Class II, possibly a little Class III, but maybe not), & might also make it to such places as Bowron Lakes & Myrtle Lake in B.C. for more extended canoe camping & paddling (with more portages, a person should start looking at weight….now the cost of the lighter canoes jumps up & introduces itself). I’ve looked at Old Town, Wenonah, Mad River, etc. A person could spend $1000 – $1400 for one of their lighter canoes, or could pay ~$700 for an Old Town Discovery that would suit the bill, but is somewhat heavier. Might also look at a Marathon, Grumman, Osagian, or Alumaweld aluminum canoe as well in that price range. Money being an object here, the price of a Coleman canoe (go ahead, let me have it!) locally is $269 – $319 looks pretty attractive. I know the Coleman would be a rugged, durable canoe. Trying to decide if it’s wiser to get a lighter, more quality designed canoe that would be more versatile in the long term, even if I have to charge !/2 of it or more, or pay cash for something like a Coleman since I’m fairly new to the sport, & would welcome advice from those who have already made such decisions. Would also welcome info about used canoes for sale where freight to eastern Washington wouldn’t be a deterrant. Thanks!

Response:

Hello! I realize that this has probably been beaten to death…    

                        ~* s n i p *~ If you don’t mind the $65 or so shipping charge, try calling one of the companies someone mentioned else mentioned earlier: Rutabaga in Madison, Wisconsin sells LOTS of boats.  They always have new Old Town blems on hand at a greatly reduced rate.  Not a bad deal for a first boat.   They will be getting lots of used boats in another month after their annual "Canoecopia" show; many people will be trading in their boats for something new. Give them a call at 800-472-3353 (800-I-PADDLE) or check out their website:  www.paddlers.com Tell Darren I sent ya. Good luck. — To reply by email, remove mapson. from the edress Check out the links page at this site: www.paddlers.com

Response:

Thank you all for the replies & advice. I realize that researching a purchase like this, then even trying out different boats would be the best of all worlds, but hearing from folks that have been there is also a definite help. Thanks again!

Response:

If the Coleman is the only way you are going to get on the water, do it!  If you want a boat, get one of the others.  Go demo some boats. The newsgroups cannot tell you how you will feel in a boat.  you need to try them.  Borrow a Coleman and then you can feel the pain in your lower back as you haul it to the water.  Then you will be informed. Try a lake boat with a keel in a moving river and learn why a keel is not too swell in moving water.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello! I realize that this has probably been beaten to death until some are sick of it, but being new to this group, thought I’d seek some advice anyway. Am going to buy a canoe this spring, & am in a quandry about the wisest choice, while still keeping to a reasonable price. Having seen very few used canoes for sale in my area, so looks like it might be a new canoe. I plan to use the canoe for hitting some lakes in my region with my sons….do some fly fishing, canoe camp occasionally, that type of thing. If the canoe I end up getting is worthy, the canoe might see some river use (probably nothing worse than Class II, possibly a little Class III, but maybe not), & might also make it to such places as Bowron Lakes & Myrtle Lake in B.C. for more extended canoe camping & paddling (with more portages, a person should start looking at weight….now the cost of the lighter canoes jumps up & introduces itself). I’ve looked at Old Town, Wenonah, Mad River, etc. A person could spend $1000 – $1400 for one of their lighter canoes, or could pay ~$700 for an Old Town Discovery that would suit the bill, but is somewhat heavier. Might also look at a Marathon, Grumman, Osagian, or Alumaweld aluminum canoe as well in that price range. Money being an object here, the price of a Coleman canoe (go ahead, let me have it!) locally is $269 – $319 looks pretty attractive. I know the Coleman would be a rugged, durable canoe. Trying to decide if it’s wiser to get a lighter, more quality designed canoe that would be more versatile in the long term, even if I have to charge !/2 of it or more, or pay cash for something like a Coleman since I’m fairly new to the sport, & would welcome advice from those who have already made such decisions. Would also welcome info about used canoes for sale where freight to eastern Washington wouldn’t be a deterrant. Thanks!

patrickatcyberhighwaydotnet

Response:

Hello!

Well hello to you! I know the Coleman would be a rugged, durable canoe.

Actually, they aren’t.  Not compared to Old Town, Mad RIver, Mohawk, etc.  I wouldn’t want to hit too many rocks with a coleman.  Aluminum canoes are extremely durable, but, and this is a BIG BUTT, it’s hard to keep the suckers quiet.  Each and every time you place your paddle in the boat, you and every fish within 300 feet will hear the ‘thud’. I hear the Boy Scouts using them all the time at Upper Priest lake in Idaho…very noisy. already made such decisions. Would also welcome info about used canoes for sale where freight to eastern Washington wouldn’t be a deterrant. Thanks!

You live around here in Spokane?  You join the Spokane Canoe and Kayak Club yet?  I’m the newsletter editor.  We’re having our largest meeting/auction/potluck of the year come February 26th — next friday. If you wanna see a LOT of activity, come see it.  Email me if you want more info.

Response:

For the money you’re looking to spend, I would suggest you test paddle an OT Penobscot 17.  I’ve used mine quite a bit on lakes in minneapolis and in the BWCA.  It’s got moderate initial stability, fantastic secondary stability.  It has no rocker so it tracks like a arrow, but turns like a pig.  Leaning into a turn can give you a good bit of effective rocker.  Its a great tripping boat.

Response:

Tom, I was in your position a few years ago, let me tell you what I bought. I found that the best tradeoff for weight, durability, and cost, for lake and occasional class I/II rivers is fiberglass.  Not the cheap chopper gun variety, but a canoe made up of decent sheet materials.  I chose a Wenonah, largely because I have a great local dealer who sells them (as well as Mad River). Fiberglass advantages are hull stiffness without bulk which = paddling efficiency, no flex while paddling, easily repairable if it does become damaged, etc.  Fiberglass slips across rocks in a low water condition much better than aluminum – avoid that material at all costs if you plan on running low water.  About the only disadvantage is that the gel coat looks beautiful when new, and quickly gets scraped up pretty bad – but that means you’re actually USING the boat, doesn’t it? Your ideal boat in a plastic would be royalex – much lighter than the Old Town crosslink.  It’s well worth the upgrade cost.  I see tons of the Discovery boats for sale – and no royalex boats for sale!! You don’t find many (good) canoes for sale, because most people have no reason to sell them! They’re not that expensive, and last a lifetime with reasonable care. Good luck! Lou – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello! I realize that this has probably been beaten to death until some are sick of it, but being new to this group, thought I’d seek some advice anyway. Am going to buy a canoe this spring, & am in a quandry about the wisest choice, while still keeping to a reasonable price. Having seen very few used canoes for sale in my area, so looks like it might be a new canoe. I plan to use the canoe for hitting some lakes in my region with my sons….do some fly fishing, canoe camp occasionally, that type of thing. If the canoe I end up getting is worthy, the canoe might see some river use (probably nothing worse than Class II, possibly a little Class III, but maybe not), & might also make it to such places as Bowron Lakes & Myrtle Lake in B.C. for more extended canoe camping & paddling (with more portages, a person should start looking at weight….now the cost of the lighter canoes jumps up & introduces itself). I’ve looked at Old Town, Wenonah, Mad River, etc. A person could spend $1000 – $1400 for one of their lighter canoes, or could pay ~$700 for an Old Town Discovery that would suit the bill, but is somewhat heavier. Might also look at a Marathon, Grumman, Osagian, or Alumaweld aluminum canoe as well in that price range. Money being an object here, the price of a Coleman canoe (go ahead, let me have it!) locally is $269 – $319 looks pretty attractive. I know the Coleman would be a rugged, durable canoe. Trying to decide if it’s wiser to get a lighter, more quality designed canoe that would be more versatile in the long term, even if I have to charge !/2 of it or more, or pay cash for something like a Coleman since I’m fairly new to the sport, & would welcome advice from those who have already made such decisions. Would also welcome info about used canoes for sale where freight to eastern Washington wouldn’t be a deterrant. Thanks!

Response:

Hello! I realize that this has probably been beaten to death until some are sick of it, but being new to this group, thought I’d seek some advice anyway. Am going to buy a canoe this spring, & am in a quandry about the wisest choice, while still keeping to a reasonable price. Having seen very few used canoes for sale in my area, so looks like it might be a new canoe. I plan to use the canoe for hitting some lakes in my region with my sons….do some fly fishing, canoe camp occasionally, that type of thing. If the canoe I end up getting is worthy, the canoe might see some river use (probably nothing worse than Class II, possibly a little Class III, but maybe not), & might also make it to such places as Bowron Lakes & Myrtle Lake in B.C. for more extended canoe camping & paddling (with more portages, a person should start looking at weight….now the cost of the lighter canoes jumps up & introduces itself). I’ve looked at Old Town, Wenonah, Mad River, etc. A person could spend $1000 – $1400 for one of their lighter canoes, or could pay ~$700 for an Old Town Discovery that would suit the bill, but is somewhat heavier. Might also look at a Marathon, Grumman, Osagian, or Alumaweld aluminum canoe as well in that price range. Money being an object here, the price of a Coleman canoe (go ahead, let me have it!) locally is $269 – $319 looks pretty attractive. I know the Coleman would be a rugged, durable canoe. Trying to decide if it’s wiser to get a lighter, more quality designed canoe that would be more versatile in the long term, even if I have to charge !/2 of it or more, or pay cash for something like a Coleman since I’m fairly new to the sport, & would welcome advice from those who have already made such decisions. Would also welcome info about used canoes for sale where freight to eastern Washington wouldn’t be a deterrant. Thanks!

Response:

Hello! I realize that this has probably been beaten to death until some are sick of it, but being new to this group, thought I’d seek some advice anyway. Am going to buy a canoe this spring, & am in a quandry about the wisest choice, while still keeping to a reasonable price. Having seen very few used canoes for sale in my area, so looks like it might be a new canoe.

Yes, it has been done a lot, infact I bet a search on dejanews (www.dejanews.com) would answer most if not all your questions. The coleman is a good boat for short paddles around a quiet lake once in a while, or for giving to a scout troop to learn in (cheap and nigh on industructible).  I have an old town discovery 164 which is about the same as the penobscott, just weighs more… a lot more on a long portage. Personally I’d look around for a used good boat, and stay away from the colemans. Hope this helps Rich Johnson Enfield Nova Scotia Canada

Response:

For flatwater, class I and Class II a good quality fiberglass (cloth, not spray in chopper gun) canoe would be the best bet.  I’d look for a used one, some places (like Rutabaga in Madison, WI and Piragis in ELY, MN) sell a number of used boats like that.  A new We-No-Nah in Tufweave (fiberglass like) can be had for $8-900.  Western Canoeing has similar boats.  Used Kevlar could be in the same range, used fiberglass less. These would work for Class I, not good for Class III, Class II depends on skill level.  For mostly whitewater, Royalex is a better choice, but maybe you can borrow a canoe for those infrequent forays?  It will be heavier and harder to paddle.  Coleman’s are a poor design, Discovery’s are (in the 16′ 9" and 17′ 4" versions) an okay design, but overy heavy and don’t have the long term durability of Royalex. Aluminum is a fine material for flatwater, as good or better than plastic, but can be dangerous in whitewater and a pain in shallow rivers as it tends to stick to rocks, so it’s easy to get stuck and broach. I’d rather (actually I do) have a 17′ Grumman than a Coleman or Discovery. I’d look for a quality fiberglass or used Kevlar boat from We-No-Nah, Mad River, Western, Sawyer. — Andrew Gooding

Response:

Question:

My wife and I are driving our camper to Alaska this summer (with part of the trip on the Alaska ferry).  Along with the sightseeing and flyfishing, I do need to keep in touch with my office (unfortunate, but true) because I will be gone for an extended period.  Does anyone have any experience with cellular phones in southeast or southcentral Alaska?  When you get away from Anchorage or Fairbanks, is there any reasonable service?  Thanks for any information.  Please E-mail me in

Response:

: My wife and I are driving our camper to Alaska this summer (with part : of the trip on the Alaska ferry).  Along with the sightseeing and : flyfishing, I do need to keep in touch with my office (unfortunate, : but true) because I will be gone for an extended period.  Does anyone : have any experience with cellular phones in southeast or southcentral : Alaska?  When you get away from Anchorage or Fairbanks, is there any : reasonable service?  Thanks for any information.  Please E-mail me in I recommend that you ignore all answers to this question.  Just go.  If the cell phone doesn’t work, shrug your shoulders, put it in the glove compartment, and tell the office that at least you tried…when you get back. You’ll be oh-so-much more productive for having taken a real vacation, after all. — Laboratory for Applied Logic    Dept. of Computer Science University of Idaho             www: http://www.cs.uidaho.edu/~foster —–BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK—– Version: 2.6.2 mQCNAzDtvLEAAAEEAKAC21G2Be0K0DMgjLpxrwLmsYfCz8rWcfgyABjr3Ryfk1dO nV7fFFpUF3xohR7die+/B2V9oqRQzTLeSF2ECKlsTY/yUyw2kn+P2ju1umh4Fwzd cVTvc+H69q1+Ft3kmw/PE0Pan+g0PUGGJ43stw3q4OgBHdixbRd/f9giJFDxAAUR tCZKYW1lcyBBLiBGb3N0ZXIgPGZvc3RlckBjcy51aWRhaG8uZWR1PokAlQMFEDD8 ReEXf3/YIiRQ8QEBFrAD/2AFuRWcD/3MENC3qJMC/Or1qxknjkK7Uv+TDf2LHPOY GHBbG9PyWuXQ8of0Dd+JYwf/tzlO9Yk1s1zTdikfriak21FW0bCokxDIhA3myppZ IZDWVA9CyvDYHuP5Ii1NkBvocab813JzDLZA+0iVN5sebGb9zSXR4Za47hlriHeP =RDHK —–END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK—–

Response:

: My wife and I are driving our camper to Alaska this summer (with part : of the trip on the Alaska ferry).  Along with the sightseeing and : flyfishing, I do need to keep in touch with my office (unfortunate, : but true) because I will be gone for an extended period.  Does anyone : have any experience with cellular phones in southeast or southcentral : Alaska?  When you get away from Anchorage or Fairbanks, is there any : reasonable service?  Thanks for any information.  Please E-mail me in Get serious. It’s time you learned what the word "rural" means.  And you better expect about three days without that precious phone in Canada.  What am I saying…might as well switch it off when you get to Montana. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

Question:

I am trying to get the email address for the fly fishing mailing list and instructions for getting myself added to the distribution list.  Please reply to me using the address below if you have any information.  Thanks in advance. -Roger.  Roger S. Barga     |   Department of Computer Science and Engineering                     | Oregon Graduate Institute of Science and Technology (503) 690-1121 7308 |                Portland, OR 97291-1000

Response:

I am trying to get the email address for the fly fishing mailing list and instructions for getting myself added to the distribution list.  Please reply to me using the address below if you have any information.  Thanks in advance.

How about posting it here, too, for the rest of us… Rick

Response: