Question:

I’ll be going to Deschutes and Waterton-Glacier park in Montana. Does anyone know of any good fly shops near by and some good trout streams? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Ron

Response:

I’ll be going to Deschutes and Waterton-Glacier park in Montana. Does anyone know of any good fly shops near by and some good trout streams? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Ron

Er . . . There is a Deschutes River in Oregon (and a smaller Deschutes River in Washington), but I don’t know of a "Deschutes" in Montana?  If its the one in Oregon, there is a fine shop in Maupin, but if you are fishing the mouth from where the Deschutes meets the Columbia, you need to get your stuff in Portland (Kaufmans Streamborn in Beaverton?) or if coming down from Washington (I-5?) then Angler’s Workshop in Woodland is your best bet. As to the Waterton-Glacier area . . . I don’t know. Dave

Response:

Dave, that wasn’t very clear. I should have said Deschutes OR and Waterton-Glacier Mt. Ron

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ll be going to Deschutes and Waterton-Glacier park in Montana. Does anyone know of any good fly shops near by and some good trout streams? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Ron Er . . . There is a Deschutes River in Oregon (and a smaller Deschutes River in Washington), but I don’t know of a "Deschutes" in Montana?  If its the one in Oregon, there is a fine shop in Maupin, but if you are fishing the mouth from where the Deschutes meets the Columbia, you need to get your stuff in Portland (Kaufmans Streamborn in Beaverton?) or if coming down from Washington (I-5?) then Angler’s Workshop in Woodland is your best bet. As to the Waterton-Glacier area . . . I don’t know. Dave

Response:

Question:

Joe, so far I only count 6 confirmed heads unless you are not coming alone.  This includes my wife and myself.

I’m bringing one fishin’ buddy and maybe one brother-in-law.   No spouse. I’m planning on hitting the campsite around 0700 Sunday morning.  I would guess we will start splashing the river about 0800 or 0830.  This is just to keep ahead of locals who might drift in.

0700.   That’s like 7:00 in the morning.   Lemesee, I have to pick up my buddy & drive 2.5 hrs., so I can sleep until about – 3 a.m.   No problem. (snicker) I really gotta get down there Saturday night. Joe F.

Response:

news.ops.worldnet.att.net, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wayne, Have you been keeping a head count/list of those currently planning to attend? Also, what say we pick a rendezvous hour for Sun. a.m.   What’s a good time? Joe F. (typing when I need to get busy tying) Joe, so far I only count 6 confirmed heads unless you are not coming alone.  This includes my wife and myself. I’m planning on hitting the campsite around 0700 Sunday morning.  I would guess we will start splashing the river about 0800 or 0830. This is just to keep ahead of locals who might drift in.  We will be in no hurry so we can be flexible with the time for being "On-Water". Expect some canoe launching to be going on in the morning and canoe arrivals after noon..  If you get down Saturday evening bring a headlamp and explore the river. The Miller hatch actually occurs at night.  Wild thing to behold!!  I’ll e-mail the confirmed attendees with specific fishing instructions whic I don’t want broadcast here.  You guys are gonna LOVE this! Maybe we should bring our own blank T-Shirts and do our own drawings!! We can take pictures, get them deeloped at Wal-Mart down the road and have them put on our shirts! — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine!  I’ll be there Sunday for sure, possibly Saturday if work allows.

Hope the river will be fishable with all these storms we’re having. Drove by the Potomac this AM. High and full of mud. Praying for no more rain just for the next 10 days. Bob Before you buy.

Response:

 I’ll be there Sunday for sure, possibly Saturday if work allows. Hope the river will be fishable with all these storms we’re having. Drove by the Potomac this AM. High and full of mud. Praying for no more rain just for the next 10 days. Bob

Glad to have you Bob.  The storms have been running across the Northern Highlands and the Rappahannock is nearly IDEAL right now with no significant rain forecast.  River is clear and excellent wading and canoeing/kayaking levels.  Water temp is in the 70’s and well oxygenated!! Keep in mind also that we are fishing just above the confluence with the Rapidan.  The Rapidan is the bad actor for dumping mud. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

I’m bringing one fishin’ buddy and maybe one brother-in-law.   No spouse. I really gotta get down there Saturday night. Joe F.

Do we need tar and feathers for the brother-in-law or is he supplying the beer?  The little country store in Richardsville sells tar-&- feather kits for problem in-laws! <G — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

 I’ll be there Sunday for sure, possibly Saturday if work allows. Hope the river will be fishable with all these storms we’re having. Drove by the Potomac this AM. High and full of mud. Praying for no more rain just for the next 10 days. Bob

For a good example of how Northern Virginia has been getting hammered while we dodge the big bullets check out: http://water.usgs.gov/cgi-bin/daily_flow?va — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

Do we need tar and feathers for the brother-in-law or is he supplying the beer?  The little country store in Richardsville sells tar-&- feather kits for problem in-laws! <G

LOL.   No, he’s one of the good ones, aside from not being a fly fisherman; but this may be an opportunity to work on that (if I don’t overexpose him to this bunch). Revisiting flies:   Many of the patterns I’m tying at the recommendation of our local shop owner (a good smallie fisherman himself) are somewhat larger (size 4) than the 6’s & 8’s you’ve recommended.   Not likely to be a big deal, I assume? Time permitting, I’ll tie a bunch in the smaller sizes as well. I’m tying all bottom bouncers: a bunch of Crystal Buggers, Crystal Crayfish (easy & pretty cool looking, but no match for the "fighting craw"), white Wooly Buggers, & assorted Clousers.   I thought about helgrammites, but decided to just buy a few instead.   I’m planning to tie enough to swap or give away a few at Clave Central in the morning, so if anybody else wants to do the same, I’d welcome the variety and maybe a couple surface flies for early a.m. Joe F.

Response:

LOL.   No, he’s one of the good ones, aside from not being a fly fisherman; but this may be an opportunity to work on that (if I don’t overexpose him to this bunch). Revisiting flies:   Many of the patterns I’m tying at the

recommendation of our – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – local shop owner (a good smallie fisherman himself) are somewhat larger (size 4) than the 6’s & 8’s you’ve recommended.   Not likely to be a big deal, I assume? Time permitting, I’ll tie a bunch in the smaller sizes as well. I’m tying all bottom bouncers: a bunch of Crystal Buggers, Crystal Crayfish (easy & pretty cool looking, but no match for the "fighting craw"), white Wooly Buggers, & assorted Clousers.   I thought about helgrammites, but decided to just buy a few instead.   I’m planning to tie enough to swap or give away a few at Clave Central in the morning, so if anybody else wants to do the same, I’d welcome the variety and maybe a couple surface flies for early a.m. Joe F.

Joe, for total number of fish the #6 works well.  For fewer fish but the LUNKERS, go with the larger flys.  Make some in black and weighted.  The current BIG FISH flys are large and black fished slow on the bottom.  Leech patterns, hellgrammites, and Clousers in sizes 2 to 4  are getting the larger fish.  Keep in mind, this river does not fish crawfish quite as well as more northern rivers. They are certainly players here but not as important. BTW, I’m slipping out after work today to a SUPER SECRET spot to catch some 8 to 40 lb. Carp on a #12 Cracked Corn fly.  Right here on Lake Anna.  Film at 11. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

I’ll be there Friday evening.  Frank Sr. did mention he may be bringing some one else.                         Frank Reid Before you buy.

Response:

Nope, twern’t me Frank Jr.  I be coming alone (as usual) unless you count my portable gas grill as company.  And I will be there sometime Friday. Frank (he who travels alone travels fastest) Church

|I’ll be there Friday evening.  Frank Sr. did mention he may be bringing |some one else. |                        Frank Reid | | |Before you buy.

Response:

Sorry Frank    I must have been talking about the other Frank, no, he’s in the SW. It might have been the other Frank, no, he’s driving down by himself too.  No, wait, thats me.  Where am I?  Who am I?         I’m schizophrenic and so am I.            Frank Reid Before you buy.

Response:

Working in that cubicle does a number on your mind, eh Frank?  :-)) Frank Church of all the things I’ve lost in my life, I regret losing my mind the most

|Sorry Frank |   I must have been talking about the other Frank, no, he’s in the SW. |It might have been the other Frank, no, he’s driving down by himself |too.  No, wait, thats me.  Where am I?  Who am I? |        I’m schizophrenic and so am I. |           Frank Reid | | | |Before you buy.

Response:

I gotta go FISHING!  Just did my 3rd 12 hour day this week, not including my little 1 1/2 each-way commute on the wonderful DC beltway.  Aaarrrrggghhh!!!!  This country boy needs no-see- ums, ’skeeters, ‘coons in the cooler, a couple of cold beers, and some good fishin’ buddies.  We ain’t in Omaha anymore Toto.  Its time to head to Virginia.  Will see you all there.        Frank "get me ‘da hell outta this city" Reid Before you buy.

Response:

My reservations are confirmed at the campgrounds… I’m bringing two kayaks, suitable for fishing, with wave skirts – and class three rapids are the max but a lot of fun. Will two be enough?….any takers out there?…. Wayne, I could probably get some t-shirts and hats from one of the local…er….gentlemen’s clubs….we could magic marker ROFF above

the, John, check out these two links.  Both have maps of the river.  The lower one shows the rapids.  There is an excellent stretch from Kelly’s Ford down to the campground and you can get the campground to transport you. http://www.crrl.org/community/for/pages/brochure1.htm http://members.aol.com/clorebros/index.html After running this river, we may have trouble booting you out of Virginia!! — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

Wayne, Have you been keeping a head count/list of those currently planning to attend? Also, what say we pick a rendezvous hour for Sun. a.m.   What’s a good time? Joe F. (typing when I need to get busy tying)

Joe, so far I only count 6 confirmed heads unless you are not coming alone.  This includes my wife and myself. I’m planning on hitting the campsite around 0700 Sunday morning.  I would guess we will start splashing the river about 0800 or 0830.  This is just to keep ahead of locals who might drift in.  We will be in no hurry so we can be flexible with the time for being "On-Water".  Expect some canoe launching to be going on in the morning and canoe arrivals after noon..  If you get down Saturday evening bring a headlamp and explore the river. The Miller hatch actually occurs at night.  Wild thing to behold!!  I’ll e-mail the confirmed attendees with specific fishing instructions whic I don’t want broadcast here.  You guys are gonna LOVE this! Maybe we should bring our own blank T-Shirts and do our own drawings!! We can take pictures, get them deeloped at Wal-Mart down the road and have them put on our shirts! — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

TIME IS GROWING SHORT!! If you love smallie fishing or would like to try it out on one of the premier small mouth rivers in the US, this Fly Fishing Conclave may be just the place to be.  There won’t be any hats, no T-shirts, and no drawings which are some of the fun earmarks of other ROFF Claves. There will be just a fine group of fly fishermen gathering in a quiet, relaxing setting on a beautiful river.  In fact, this will be one great place to get away and just RELAX!!  No events, no plans, just great fishing.  Bring a hammock and "hang out" in the shade of the trees riverside! The campground is primative (no hookups or dump station) and no radios permitted, wear your earphones if you just gotta have noise.  Drive Rt. 3 west from I-95, turn right on Rt. 610, turn right on Rt. 619, look for the red on white hand painted signs for Rappahannock River Campground. Prepare to wade wet, bring a wading staff, say "Hi" to Katy when you check in.  Day parking/fishing is $3.00 for the car and $1.00 a head or something to that effect.  Camping is cheap.  Clave Central is a picnic table next to the canoe launching ramp down by the river.  Some campers arriving as early as Friday Aug. 18, main event kicks off Sunday Morning August 20. Just got a call from home and Frank’s flys got here.  COME ON DOWN and we’ll try those suckers out!! — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

There won’t be any hats, no T-shirts, and no drawings which are some of the fun earmarks of other ROFF Claves. There will be just a fine group of fly fishermen gathering in a quiet, relaxing setting on a beautiful river.

Wayne, Have you been keeping a head count/list of those currently planning to attend? Also, what say we pick a rendezvous hour for Sun. a.m.   What’s a good time? Joe F. (typing when I need to get busy tying)

Response:

My reservations are confirmed at the campgrounds… Replaced the  fuel filter, front rotors, front calipers, front brakes, greased , changed oil and filter……did I forget anything?… I’m bringing two kayaks, suitable for fishing, with wave skirts – and class three rapids are the max but a lot of fun. Will two be enough?….any takers out there?…. Still have room in my van for a travel buddy, I leave out of Dayton Wayne, I could probably get some t-shirts and hats from one of the local…er….gentlemen’s clubs….we could magic marker ROFF above the, (they have special shirts for the ladies…teehee) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – TIME IS GROWING SHORT!! If you love smallie fishing or would like to try it out on one of the premier small mouth rivers in the US, this Fly Fishing Conclave may be just the place to be.  There won’t be any hats, no T-shirts, and no drawings which are some of the fun earmarks of other ROFF Claves. There will be just a fine group of fly fishermen gathering in a quiet, relaxing setting on a beautiful river.  In fact, this will be one great place to get away and just RELAX!!  No events, no plans, just great fishing.  Bring a hammock and "hang out" in the shade of the trees riverside! The campground is primative (no hookups or dump station) and no radios permitted, wear your earphones if you just gotta have noise.  Drive Rt. 3 west from I-95, turn right on Rt. 610, turn right on Rt. 619, look for the red on white hand painted signs for Rappahannock River Campground. Prepare to wade wet, bring a wading staff, say "Hi" to Katy when you check in.  Day parking/fishing is $3.00 for the car and $1.00 a head or something to that effect.  Camping is cheap.  Clave Central is a picnic table next to the canoe launching ramp down by the river.  Some campers arriving as early as Friday Aug. 18, main event kicks off Sunday Morning August 20. Just got a call from home and Frank’s flys got here.  COME ON DOWN and we’ll try those suckers out!! — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

What is not good is your honesty.

Cheap shot George, remember our private email exchange a while back?…..You’re life is an open book and subject to much scrutiny. I expect that there will be an open and public apology for questioning my honesty over a contrary opinion to a rather insignificant product. Since your rather public apology a few months ago, I have tried to live and let live with you but you have now made another enemy George. Your former friend Wayne Knight

Response:

… However, I still maintain that prior waterproofing of the fly and the use of drying crystals or amodou (spelling) is the way to go.

Agree with Louie on this one. Amadou is a fungus that dries flies instantly with just a touch. Touch the fly with the magic mushroom, and it’s dry. It was used extensively "in the old days", but it’s rather expensive, and low tech, so has fallen out of favor. — Ken Fortenberry- fond of natural, organic, low tech solutions

Response:

____  All you need to do is whip dry and apply to surface of water.  If you need to reapply, I’d say you need to just rinse the fish slime off your fly and cast it again.  I only have to dress a fly once, while still dry and use it all day.  You may be using very heavy hooks in your dry flies. I’d have to see what your doing. Outside that, use any dry fly dressing you want. — MrG/American Sportsman You’re weasling George.  I use the same hooks most folks use,

including on dry flies I buy in reputable fly shops.  Face it, you engaged in Spam and made a false claim.  If a person uses Gink, and I may not in the future, one must reapply it several times during the day if you are catching fish, especially due to fish slime.  Just washing the slime off and whipping the fly still will not consistently float the fly high and dry without a reapplication.  Enough already. PatK http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html http://www.gink.com/rod_facts/bastardjun00.html  LATEST BAMBOO FACTS "the saga continues"

* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Hi All, Most companies sell a liquid solution that has Scotch Guard plus other ingredients that you can treat all your dry flies with after you tie or buy them or once a year. Some of them are Hydrostop, New Fly Kote and Water Shed. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s a silly question, but I have to ask… Does anybody have an opinion (that’s the silly part) regarding ‘Water Shed’ the so-called ‘Permanent Waterproofing Liquid’ or similar ‘permanent’ floatant products? I was looking at different fly dressings and found several references to this product.  One page has it listed with George Gehrke’s Gink & Xink products–all three at the same price.  Gink is sold as the "World’s Best Dry Fly Dressing" but is also advertised as providing ‘only’ hours of floatation. It seems that if Water Shed were truly permanent, that it would be quite the bargain. Looking forward to ensuing debate, Tom Before you buy.

Response:

The best floatant is anything that is not Gink and has a cap that is attached to the bottle by a little plastic connection so it won’t fall in the river when you pop the top off. eric – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s a silly question, but I have to ask… Does anybody have an opinion (that’s the silly part) regarding ‘Water Shed’ the so-called ‘Permanent Waterproofing Liquid’ or similar ‘permanent’ floatant products? I was looking at different fly dressings and found several references to this product.  One page has it listed with George Gehrke’s Gink & Xink products–all three at the same price.  Gink is sold as the "World’s Best Dry Fly Dressing" but is also advertised as providing ‘only’ hours of floatation. It seems that if Water Shed were truly permanent, that it would be quite the bargain. Looking forward to ensuing debate, Tom Before you buy.

Response:

You are getting to be a real pain again. If you would stop changing your name, at least the filter would work.  You simply will not wash as an expert on honesty.  Just in case you still have not got it, even if gink was the best fly-floatant in the whole damn world, most people on here would not use it because you make it, and you are a bloody nuisance to say the least. It is a mystery to me that you simply do not realise what a fool you continuously make of yourself on here. Give it a bloody rest for God

Question:

<SNIP Another question: Are Midges ever fished Below the surface film? When?

midges or more properly chironomids are best fished with pupae imitations in still water. As the pupae rises slowly through several feet of water before hatching at the surface trout frequently feed on these well below the surface – often just a few feet of the bottom. Long leaders and bead head imitations are popular in many still water locations.

Response:

I regularly fish some nearby ponds.  The most consistent bugs are midges and small mayflies, the trout grow large.  The best fishing often occurs in low light conditions, very early morning or twilight.  Since my eyes aren’t the best, I’ve had to improvise.  I tie a series of dry and damp flies on 18" to 30" pieces of tippet.  If I break one off or need to change flies I just run my hand down the leader until I find the knot and snap off the tippet. Then it’s relatively easy to attach a new tippet with a surgeon’s knot.  I fish from a john boat and arrange the new tippets in the bow of the boat with the hooks in some foam and the lines loosely coiled.  The change only takes a few seconds.  I’ve used the same system on the river with mixed results. Joe   —

Response:

<SNIP Another question: Are Midges ever fished Below the surface film? When?

Hi Bob, years ago all flies were tied to gut or horsehair, and the lengths were attached to the leader as required.  I would advise longer lengths than six inches if you do this, eighteen inches or so probably being better. Longer pieces get progressively more unmanageable. You will need to use "cast carriers" as well to keep your stuff from tangling, these can be as simple as pieces of card with slits cut in them to wrap the tippet and fly around. Loops as you suggest at six inches or less, that near your fly would just cause a mess, and ruin your presentation, as knots probably would too. I have seen an elderly gentleman using old plastic line spools with a piece of foam stuck to both sides  for this as well, he had a couple of about twenty four inch lengths wrapped round the spool, and the fly stuck in the foam.  Seemed to work OK. He was knotting the tippet directly to the end of his leader. If I was obliged to do this I would consider using the tiny silver rings available for this purpose, and attaching these to the end of the leader, then just attach the tippet with an improved clinch. These are very small, but a great deal easier to thread than a small fly eye. Midges can be fished very successfully just below the film, most especially pupa imitations. This is particularly effective during a rise of course. Adult midges may also be fished sub-surface. In cases where the trout are feeding on indeterminate minutiae a cream midge size 22 has worked quite well for me, although I very rarely fish flies this small usually. This may be fished at any depth, though not too deep seems to work best. Nymphing with a black or brown midge pupa is often very successful indeed. TL MC

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I regularly fish some nearby ponds.  The most consistent bugs are midges and small mayflies, the trout grow large.  The best fishing often occurs in low light conditions, very early morning or twilight.  Since my eyes aren’t the best, I’ve had to improvise.  I tie a series of dry and damp flies on 18" to 30" pieces of tippet.  If I break one off or need to change flies I just run my hand down the leader until I find the knot and snap off the tippet. Then it’s relatively easy to attach a new tippet with a surgeon’s knot.  I fish from a john boat and arrange the new tippets in the bow of the boat with the hooks in some foam and the lines loosely coiled.  The change only takes a few seconds.  I’ve used the same system on the river with mixed results. Joe –I have the same problem.  I haven’t tried it yet, but am going to pretie tippets to fly, but longer tippets.  I would store theam coiled up in small zip-lock bags,( suach as tying materials come in) with a piece of paper or cardboard inside with specs of conteants.  Jusst make sure you have a leader straightener with you.  Also Ernie Harrisons knot machine works great and faastens to vest.

Response:

Hi All, I have had the same problem.  I came up with 3 solutions. 1.  I purchased magnifier glasses called Flip Focus which attach to my sunglasses and can be purchased in varying powers.  Try Bob Marriotts in Southern California. 2.  I tie my tiny flies on Orvis large eye hooks. 3.  I use an Orvis threader box which contains a bunch of different sized threaders.  As stated by V. Ursenbach, these threaders will not work on very small flies.  However, with the Orvis large eye hooks I have had no problems.  So far, that is. Pete

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello: I would appreciate any opinions on the following: Looking at some REALLY small midge flies I recently received, and appreciating my eyesight degrading a bit each year, I am thinking about pre-tying a length of, perhaps, 6 inches of #7 tippet to each fly now, in the comfort of my warm kitchen. Trying to do it on the stream seems like it would be an exercise in near futility for me. I have enough troubles threading a size 12 or 14 fly these days. I guess I would also tie a loop in the other end, and use a loop to loop connection to the #6 or #7 regular leader tippet I have on the end of my line. -Does this sound reasonable? -Loop to loop only 6" from the fly-present any new, unique, problems? Another question: Are Midges ever fished Below the surface film? When? Thanks, Bob

Response:

You can fish midges any way you want, surface, in the film or below the film.  They work anytime a hatch is going on or not.  Midges are versitile meaning they are everywhere all the time.  Fish them below the surface with a sinktip, no need to even strip, just let it sit. The results can be surprising.  The loop connection may work, I don’t see why not.  Make them in different lengths so you can see if there is a difference. Good Luck, Forrest — Forrest http://www.FlyFishingREVIEW.com FlyFishingREVIEW.com Before you buy.

Response:

A cheaper solution than even this is a needle threader, available at the sewing notions section of you local store. . . .

One problem with this option: the needle threader will not go through the eye of a small midge. Sometimes I use #18 & #20 hooks and find the eye only large enough to push a single strand of line through.  I should say that I use 7X leader.  If I try to fold the line and push it through to make a polymer knot or such like knot the hook eye is to small.  Pushing a needle threader, which has a rounded end and double thickness of wire, is therefore impossible.  Especially when you try to put the leader in the loop and pull the threader back through with the doubled line.  When you pull it through there is now 2 thickness of line and 2 thickness or wire.  If the eye is to small to put 2 thickness of line through, how can 2 thickness of line and 2 thickness of wire go through?  It’s a nice idea, but it just will not work. Vern

Response:

I have been interested in this thread, too. I often use small flies (#18-22) and light tippets (7X). The light tippet lacks the rigidity to "poke around ’til ya hit the hole." And my eyesight… no it’s the tippet material. That’s my story, and I’m sticking to it… Anyway, I did some testing yesterday (Sunday 11/14). I bought needle threaders at a fabric/sewing store: 3 for 99 cents. I tried the threader on a #20 midge. It didn’t work at first. I then smashed the wire to a sharp point. It didn’t work,  either. I then used the "eye cleaner" on my clipper to completely clear the eye. The flattened wire went through it fine. I pulled through 5X tippet material.  Some one mentioned it may bruise to tippet material, so I used as little on the tag end as I could. I clipped the suspect part of the tippet and tied my too-many-turn clinch knot. I have attached the needle threader to my vest. Brad in Houston

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A cheaper solution than even this is a needle threader, available at the sewing notions section of you local store. . . . One problem with this option: the needle threader will not go through the eye of a small midge. Sometimes I use #18 & #20 hooks and find the eye only large enough to push a single strand of line through.  I should say that I use 7X leader.  If I try to fold the line and push it through to make a polymer knot or such like knot the hook eye is to small.  Pushing a needle threader, which has a rounded end and double thickness of wire, is therefore impossible.  Especially when you try to put the leader in the loop and pull the threader back through with the doubled line.  When you pull it through there is now 2 thickness of line and 2 thickness or wire.  If the eye is to small to put 2 thickness of line through, how can 2 thickness of line and 2 thickness of wire go through?  It’s a nice idea, but it just will not work. Vern

Response:

Bob- something I’ve been doig for about four years now for late evening fishing with midges and other small flies, too! I use about a 10-12" piece of tippet material and leave the end plain than use a surgeon’s knot to tie it into my leader….. great for the early mornings when the arthritic fingers haven’t started working yet either! I use clear film cans to store the flies with a small piece of funfoam on the hook points so they don’t tangle…. cut slits down the sides of the film can from the top rim and then slide the tippet through the slit so you can store them individually…. I get 6 or 8 in a can. Personally, I don’t care for loop to loop, especially when I’m fishing something that small and on that light of a leader…it adds two more knots into the equation and increases the chance of failure even more in my mind. As for below the film? Yeah, when they get slimed or forced under by a ripple… I mean short of ca cripple midge, I prefer to fish em on the surface and like using either CDC  as a "loop post" or white Arctic Fox mask as a post to increase visibility. Larry #:)#

Response:

Hi Bob, I’ve seen  a fly box that has sprung steel threaders on which you store the flies.  When you need to tie one on you place the tippet thorugh the threader remove the fly already threaded.  This will certainly help with 12’s, 14 and 16 but I’m not sure whether smaller flies will fit. Perhaps its worth a look. Steve

Response:

Steve: <<Hi Bob, I’ve seen  a fly box that has sprung steel threaders on which you store the flies.  When you need to tie one on you place the tippet thorugh the threader remove the fly already threaded.  This will certainly help with 12’s, 14 and 16 but I’m not sure whether smaller flies will fit. Perhaps its worth a look. Orvis sells two.  For $39 and $28!  Yikes!  Go to an Orvis store and see if it will take 18-22.  Probably will.  I have the same problem, Bob, but I have solved it by using fold-down magnifiers.  You can get them in different magnification powers.  Cheaper than the Orvis trick box. Dave L.

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0] : Steve: : <<Hi Bob, : I’ve seen  a fly box that has sprung steel threaders on which you store : the flies.  When you need to tie one on you place the tippet thorugh the : threader remove the fly already threaded.  This will certainly help : with 12’s, 14 and 16 but I’m not sure whether smaller flies will fit. : Perhaps its worth a look. : Orvis sells two.  For $39 and $28!  Yikes!  Go to an Orvis store and : see if it will take 18-22.  Probably will.  I have the same problem, : Bob, but I have solved it by using fold-down magnifiers.  You can : get them in different magnification powers.  Cheaper than the : Orvis trick box. : Dave L. A cheaper solution than even this is a needle threader, available at the sewing notions section of you local store, three to a package, about $1. It’s a loop of fine music wire staked to a dime sized piece of thin aluminum. You’ll need to pinch the tip of the threader down a bit with pliers or forceps to fit hook eyes–its oblong for needle eyes as it comes. You poke it through the hook eye, put the tippet through the loop and pull it back through. It bruises the tippet a little bit where the wire pulls on it, so discard that little tag end. I find I can pull 5x through #22 eyes, no problem. They last anywhere from 0 to 100 threadings, so carry spares, they’re cheap. I have mine, attached with a bit of mono through a hole punched in the aluminum, on the same zinger as my tippet nipper. A bit of super glue where the wire is attached to the aluminum does help the durability. Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories  (remove x’s from email if not      Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971   a spammer) Phone: (650)-857-5491              

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When fishing light tippets, a longer tippet gives you more protection from break offs because of its ability to stretch. I’ve been tempted to pretie tippets but I couldn’t come up with a good way to store them and keep them from tangling in my vest. Instead, I keep a cheap pair of reading glasses in my vest (even though I don’t REALLY need them for reading). I buy at the Dollar store and usually get 2X strength. They help alot. Midges can be fished anywhere in the water column from the film on down. Deep nymphing with midges is very popular on tailwaters.  I was out on my home river (not a tailwater) this AM. The only thing coming off were a few midges. Nothing was rising or sipping but I caught several fish on a 22 midge drifted along the bottom of the runs at the heads of several pools. I came across a huge, dead, hook jawed Brown of about 26". Too old to handle the rigors of spawning, I guess. Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello: I would appreciate any opinions on the following: Looking at some REALLY small midge flies I recently received, and appreciating my eyesight degrading a bit each year, I am thinking about pre-tying a length of, perhaps, 6 inches of #7 tippet to each fly now, in the comfort of my warm kitchen. Trying to do it on the stream seems like it would be an exercise in near futility for me. I have enough troubles threading a size 12 or 14 fly these days. I guess I would also tie a loop in the other end, and use a loop to loop connection to the #6 or #7 regular leader tippet I have on the end of my line. -Does this sound reasonable? -Loop to loop only 6" from the fly-present any new, unique, problems? Another question: Are Midges ever fished Below the surface film? When? Thanks, Bob

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…Looking at some REALLY small midge flies I recently received, and appreciating my eyesight degrading a bit each year, I am thinking about pre-tying a length of, perhaps, 6 inches of #7 tippet to each fly now, in the comfort of my warm kitchen.

There are a couple of problems with this idea.  First, six inches of tippet is much to short for just about any circumstances.  This puts your knot in a very visible location in addition  to doing horrible things to the mechanics of casting.  Second, appropriate tippet length is highly variable and depends on the situation at hand.  For example, in very slow clear water one would ordinarily use a greater length of tippet in order to keep the fly as far as possible from the fly line, and to allow a more natural looking drift.  Since a very long tippet can make casting more difficult (just as a very short one can) one can’t simply always use the long one either.  Third, appropriate tippet diameter is also variable and for the same reasons as above.  Fourth, tippet material is hard enough to keep under control when it is on a spool.  Having a bunch of flies in your vest with lengths of tippet attached would cause a nightmare of snarling and unintended knots. All in all, I think it is much better to acquire and use whatever corrective eye wear you can find. Good luck.

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Hello: I would appreciate any opinions on the following: Looking at some REALLY small midge flies I recently received, and appreciating my eyesight degrading a bit each year, I am thinking about pre-tying a length of, perhaps, 6 inches of #7 tippet to each fly now, in the comfort of my warm kitchen. Trying to do it on the stream seems like it would be an exercise in near futility for me. I have enough troubles threading a size 12 or 14 fly these days. I guess I would also tie a loop in the other end, and use a loop to loop connection to the #6 or #7 regular leader tippet I have on the end of my line. -Does this sound reasonable? -Loop to loop only 6" from the fly-present any new, unique, problems? Another question: Are Midges ever fished Below the surface film? When? Thanks, Bob

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Question:

Thanks Dan and all who responded to my inquiry.  I have an email in (which preceded my opening of this thread by 10 days, and remains unanswered) to ODFW, and we willsee what they say.  If I do not hear from them shortly, I will revert to primitive technology and use the telephone, if I can find it amongst all these damn feathers…:)   Thanks Ken, too.. If you hear from the Oregon agency folks via email, hope you will let us know here. Tks! Bob

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get the lead out! Safe with bismuth and other such as copper, (for now) Schuhfly

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Last September, when we honeymooned around Bend, we were fishing the Fall and the Metolius and were told by other anglers (well, one in each place, actually..) that no lead (ie:split shot, putty, etc.) was permitted in either river.  Nor were lead-weighted flies.  So, we did not use them. However, I scoured the Oregon regs booklet and could find no such regs specific to either river. We plan to return next month for a week and want to abide by the law, however, we’d also like to be able to fish nymphs in the conventional manner we do here in the east, with lead on the leader, etc.  Can anyone clarify this for me? Is it really the law?  Additionally, if it is so, does the prohibition extend to the non toxic shots and putties?  Any help appreciated.. In return, we promise not to move to Oregon, but reserve the right to visit occasionally…:)  Thanks!

I don’t know for sure, but I’ve never heard of it, and I couldn’t find it in the regs either.  It might be encouraged, but I don’t think it’s a reg…yet. You still have to not move here though.  :-) Later,      - Ken — Not speaking for anyone but myself

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I know lead is not permitted either (because I’ve been told too!) but if I nymph I use beadheads – pheasant tails,etc. Bill

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Last September, when we honeymooned around Bend, we were fishing the Fall and the Metolius and were told by other anglers (well, one in each place, actually..) that no lead (ie:split shot, putty, etc.) was permitted in either river.  Nor were lead-weighted flies.  So, we did not use them. However, I scoured the Oregon regs booklet and could find no such regs specific to either river. We plan to return next month for a week and want to abide by the law, however, we’d also like to be able to fish nymphs in the conventional manner we do here in the east, with lead on the leader, etc.  Can anyone clarify this for me? Is it really the law?  Additionally, if it is so, does the prohibition extend to the non toxic shots and putties?  Any help appreciated.. In return, we promise not to move to Oregon, but reserve the right to visit occasionally…:)  Thanks!  

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Looking at the 1998 regs: P7: Artificial fly: a hook (weighted or nonweighted) dressed with conventional fly materials only; a fly is not a hook to which sinkers, molded weights or plastic bodies, spinners, spoons, or similar attractors are attached I read this to say that, for example, lead wire wrapped on the hook is OK, but split shot on the line is not. P51: Fall River: Restricted to fly angling only with barbless hooks P52: Metolius River: Restricted to artificial flies and lures downstream from bridge 99. Restricted to artificial flies only upstream from bridge 99. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know lead is not permitted either (because I’ve been told too!) but if I nymph I use beadheads – pheasant tails,etc. Bill

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Hmmm, I know that a lot of fly-fishing people use split-shot around here, I wonder if it’s only an issue in fly-fishing only waters.  I’m gonna email somebody at ODFW and ask. If waters are open to artificial flies and lures (Metolius) then I would read that to mean that split-shot is okay.  I’ll post whatever response I get.      - Ken – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Looking at the 1998 regs: P7: Artificial fly: a hook (weighted or nonweighted) dressed with conventional fly materials only; a fly is not a hook to which sinkers, molded weights or plastic bodies, spinners, spoons, or similar attractors are attached I read this to say that, for example, lead wire wrapped on the hook is OK, but split shot on the line is not. P51: Fall River: Restricted to fly angling only with barbless hooks P52: Metolius River: Restricted to artificial flies and lures downstream from bridge 99. Restricted to artificial flies only upstream from bridge 99. I know lead is not permitted either (because I’ve been told too!) but if I nymph I use beadheads – pheasant tails,etc. Bill

— Not speaking for anyone but myself

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -(RLPPT) writes: Last September, when we honeymooned around Bend, we were fishing the Fall and the Metolius and were told by other anglers (well, one in each place, actually..) that no lead (ie:split shot, putty, etc.) was permitted in either river.  Nor were lead-weighted flies.  So, we did not use them. However, I scoured the Oregon regs booklet and could find no such regs specific to either river. We plan to return next month for a week and want to abide by the law, however, we’d also like to be able to fish nymphs in the conventional manner we do here in the east, with lead on the leader, etc.  Can anyone clarify this for me? Is it really the law?  Additionally, if it is so, does the prohibition extend to the non toxic shots and putties?  Any help appreciated.. In return, we promise not to move to Oregon, but reserve the right to visit occasionally…:)  Thanks!  

Hi RLPPT, When I lived in Oregon (76 – 87), lead on the leader was not allowed in any "fly fishing  only" waters such as the upper part of the North Umpqua River (don’t know if it’s still designated so).  So, you need to check the general regs on "fly fishing only" waters or what defines fly fishing as far as Oregon is concerned.   There was no prohibition against lead in the fly, just not allowed on the leader.  Story goes this came about because some folks were snagging steelhead and salmon by using huge flies with double hooks and huge chunks of lead on the leader to get around the ff only regs.   Part of the Metolius at the time was also designated ff only then, and again you couldn’t use lead on the leader.  Fish in this spring creek part of the river (changes as you move downstream) were partial to small flies which were really hard to get down to them without weight.  Folks would tie up some larger weighted nymphs (even stoneflies) and run a small PT on a dropper.  Fish always took the PT.  The Tungsten Beads (much heavier than the normal beads) used as a thorax on a PT make it possible to get down a small fly without the second heavily weighted one. This one is probably worth a call to the Oregon DFW.                                      Good Fishing                                         Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools Mt. Shasta Fly Fishing Schools http://www.thegrid.net/flyfish

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Question:

I will be leaving March 14th to fish Baja, anyone have any experience or recommendations for fly’s to use. Thank You Dan

Hi Dan, I think that white is a good basic color for saltwater streamers and then put green, or blue or red on top. Green over yellow is also good. Flash is good. I would use 2/0 to 5/0 hooks and flies from 3 to 6 inches. We like poppers or popper heads in front of streamers. I mostly hear that the summer months are better for fly fishing in Baja. I guess May through October with June and July being very popular from Mulege to La Paz. Most anglers that go down in the winter return with stories of mostly trolling with flies. I am sure there are exceptions and I’m sure their are some experts that have wired in the winter. To motor out in the Sea of Cortez, stop the motor and cast, you need lots of fish. That is way we have gone to Loreto for the last 15 years in July.  On a good year, you can park the boat on a sargassum patty and cast popper for schooling Dorado from 10 to 20 pounds and bigger. I wish the fly fishing was better in the winter because it is hot as hell in the summer. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

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You might check <Baja on the Fly  by Nick Curcione, Amato Publications, 503/ 653-8108

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I will be leaving March 14th to fish Baja, anyone have any experience or recommendations for fly’s to use.

There are 2,000 miles of shoreline down there.  You don’t mention if you are using a boat, what weight rod, target species.  Can’t help you much unless you give more info… -John Thank You Dan

–        My Policy is to ALWAYS Blame the Computer

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yea I have a suggestion take me     well anyways thought id try good luck – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I will be leaving March 14th to fish Baja, anyone have any experience or recommendations for fly’s to use. Thank You Dan

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I will be leaving March 14th to fish Baja, anyone have any experience or recommendations for fly’s to use. Thank You Dan

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<www.bajafly.com

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Question:

Hey guys,         When I tried to move to the other chat site, I got a message that I needed either Java support or use an IRC site.  It then gave me the name of an IRC site to click on.  When I tried this, it then told me that it couldn’t find it.  Please help. John

Hi John I did as well and was unable to get on. I know we’ve had a couple of false starts but I think with Joe Byrd’s help we will get a good and regular chat going — at least that’s what I’m working toward. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

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Hey guys,         When I tried to move to the other chat site, I got a message that I needed either Java support or use an IRC site.  It then gave me the name of an IRC site to click on.  When I tried this, it then told me that it couldn’t find it.  Please help. John

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Question:

I recently began tying dry fly wings with antron yarn. Antron is a very easy material to work with. It provides a good silhouette and rigid post for parachute patterns. Divided and down wings are easy to tie with little bulk making the tying of smaller flies simpler with better proportion as well. Comparaduns are a breeze. Antron wings look aesthetically pleasing and appear to be somewhat translucent and light reflective at the same time. In short, antron seems too good to be true. Being that it’s -30  C outside as I write this, it is unlikely I will be able to test these flies for a few months yet. In the meantime, I’d like to tie flyboxes full of antron dries, but before I go whole hog on antron, I need to know if they fish as good as they look. Thanks Guy

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently began tying dry fly wings with antron yarn. Antron is a very easy material to work with. It provides a good silhouette and rigid post for parachute patterns. Divided and down wings are easy to tie with little bulk making the tying of smaller flies simpler with better proportion as well. Comparaduns are a breeze. Antron wings look aesthetically pleasing and appear to be somewhat translucent and light reflective at the same time. In short, antron seems too good to be true. Being that it’s -30  C outside as I write this, it is unlikely I will be able to test these flies for a few months yet. In the meantime, I’d like to tie flyboxes full of antron dries, but before I go whole hog on antron, I need to know if they fish as good as they look. Thanks Guy

Guy, I tried a similar tactic a couple of years ago using Orvis poly-wing material (usually used for spinner wings) which isn’t too different from antron.  Being a rather impatient and lazy tier I found this material easy and fast to use for tying upright wings. As a wing post for parachute patterns I found it worked well and fished as effectively as any other parachute patterns. I had the most hope for Comparaduns tied with this material because I fish them a lot, again partly because of the ease and speed of tying. However, these were not very effective at all.  During the summer of ‘95 I tried Comparaduns tied with this material alongside the standards and for some yet undetermined reason they just were not as effective.  This was not a very scientific experiment because of limited trips and I didn’t have any friends try them; so take my findings for whatever they are worth.  They were tried for the Hendrickson, Sulfur and various BWO hatches. I would encourage you to tie enough antron Comparaduns for an experiment and please let me know how they fish. Good luck, Steve

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently began tying dry fly wings with antron yarn. Antron is a very to tie flyboxes full of antron dries, but before I go whole hog on antron, I need to know if they fish as good as they look. I use antron on wet flies with partridge or hen soft hackle.  The flies are a real killer.  The antron seems to trap air bubbles and looks traslucent to the fish (more life like I suppose).  I catch some big fish on them. -Burton

DEAR BURTON: Would you send me a small sample of this new material to look at? Gehrke’s Gink Snake River – Hell’s Canyon Asotin, WA 99402 Would appreciate it. George — MZ

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I recently began tying dry fly wings with antron yarn. Antron is a very to tie flyboxes full of antron dries, but before I go whole hog on antron, I need to know if they fish as good as they look.

I use antron on wet flies with partridge or hen soft hackle.  The flies are a real killer.  The antron seems to trap air bubbles and looks traslucent to the fish (more life like I suppose).  I catch some big fish on them. -Burton

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I use antron on wet flies with partridge or hen soft hackle.  The flies are a real killer.  The antron seems to trap air bubbles and looks traslucent to the fish (more life like I suppose).  I catch some big fish on them. -Burton DEAR BURTON: Would you send me a small sample of this new material to look at? Gehrke’s Gink Snake River – Hell’s Canyon Asotin, WA 99402 Would appreciate it. George

George: you can probably find a sample under your feet – it’s a pretty common synthetic carpet fibre that’s been used for flytying for at least 5 years or more. You’ll also find it sold as "sparkle yarn", etc… I’m actually surprised you never heard of this stuff (and that you didn’t invent it! ;^) Cheers! /dave

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Went through an antron phase a couple of years ago. Overall the dries that I tied fished OK its hard to say whether or not they made a real difference. I think that the smaller flies that I tied worked well with antron wings. These were small gnats size 22 and 24. Antron wings are killer on wet flies though.

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I use antron on wet flies with partridge or hen soft hackle.  The flies are a real killer.  The antron seems to trap air bubbles and looks traslucent to the fish (more life like I suppose).  I catch some big fish on them.

Burton, Try a rib of pearlescent krystal flash on some of them, especially the darker olives.  I swing these at last light.  They seem to almost glow. I really love fishing soft hackles. Ross Wilson

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Went through an antron phase a couple of years ago. Overall the dries that I tied fished OK its hard to say whether or not they made a real difference. I think that the smaller flies that I tied worked well with antron wings. These were small gnats size 22 and 24. Antron wings are killer on wet flies though.

Dear Sir; I concurr.  I really think antron used for wings, caddis stuff, emergent mayflies, midges and trailing shucks is great.  For shucks, instead of the more coarse Z-lon for the small flies, I use regular fine antron yarn and then use a heated metal wire to cause there to be consistent convolutions in the peeling "shuck". JB

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I use antron on wet flies with partridge or hen soft hackle.  The flies Burton, Try a rib of pearlescent krystal flash on some of them, especially the darker olives.  I swing these at last light.  They seem to almost glow. I really love fishing soft hackles. Ross Wilson

Ross, So do I!  I find myself doing it more and more these days, since it allows me to cast which I find relaxing.  As opposed to my chuck-and-duck nymphing with heavy weighted flies. Thanks for the tip, I’ll tie up a few and try them. -Burton

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Being that it’s -30  C outside as I write this, it is unlikely I will be able to test these flies for a few months yet. In the meantime, I’d like to tie flyboxes full of antron dries, but before I go whole hog on antron, I need to know if they fish as good as they look.

See, that’s just the kind of Sunday fly-fishing mentality that’s getting the sport a bad name! Andrew (-: – I’ve been tying wings with antron for several years now, and the fish seem to think it’s OK.

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George, -Sure, glad to do it!  What color would you prefer?  I find it most useful= =20 for wet fly caddis imitations and to wit think I have lt. brown,=20 blue-grey, yellow, grey and lt. olive (maybe even dark olive). -Burton =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I use antron on wet flies with partridge or hen soft hackle.  The flies are a real killer.  The antron seems to trap air bubbles and looks traslucent to the fish (more life like I suppose).  I catch some big fi= sh on them. =20 DEAR BURTON: =20 Would you send me a small sample of this new material to look at? =20 Gehrke’s Gink Snake River – Hell’s Canyon Asotin, WA 99402 =20 Would appreciate it. =20 George –=20 MZ=90 =20 =20

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I chop up sections of this and mix it with other dubbing materials for wet flies. I used one like this at the end of the season and it was destroyed by several large fish. Needless to say my vise has been crankin these out ! — "The true Angler is content to fish alone" Brian Di Carlo – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently began tying dry fly wings with antron yarn. Antron is a very to tie flyboxes full of antron dries, but before I go whole hog on antron, I need to know if they fish as good as they look. I use antron on wet flies with partridge or hen soft hackle.  The flies are a real killer.  The antron seems to trap air bubbles and looks traslucent to the fish (more life like I suppose).  I catch some big fish on them. -Burton

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Question:

My family is heading up to Jackson Hole for Spring Break.  Anyone familiar with the area?  Is there some fishing to be done this early in the season?  Patterns to take along if there is open water?  Suggestions on sites would be much appreciated. Thanks, AP

Arie: There are a lot of different regulations on when, where, how, and for what you can fish that time of year.  Most of the streams are open and the fish are there, but you need to make sure you know the rules. Westbank Anglers (just west of the town of Jackson) has a great web site you can access via Flyfishers Online at http://flyfishers.com/. I just came back from Jackson three days ago.  Sure is pretty. Good luck, Bob

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My family is heading up to Jackson Hole for Spring Break.  Anyone familiar with the area?  Is there some fishing to be done this early in the season?  Patterns to take along if there is open water?  Suggestions on sites would be much appreciated. Thanks, AP

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April is early, check  with the Outfitters in West Yellowstone or Bozeman. If you would like to come to this area in the best Fly fishing just drope me a e-mail and I will tell you all about Hawley MT, Ranch just 60 miles north of Jackson Hole where   a portion of "the River Runs=====" was filmed. AND STILL NO ONE KONWS WHERE IT IS!!! BBlewett

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Question:

I have to take an enforced trip to Madeira in January.  It’s been described to me as a holiday. Is it worth taking a rod? — Steve

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:I have to take an enforced trip to Madeira in January.  It’s been : described to  me as a holiday. : Is it worth taking a rod? : — : Steve No, Steve, this is terrible news. Drag your tired body down there. Never mind the gorgeous weather – you’ll survive. And the fishing – oh dear – but it’s not worth your time. It’s ALWAYS worth taking a rod. D.F.

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