Question:

The best brookie I ever caught at camp (14" in a small stream where a 10-incher is a good one) came to beat up red&white devil bug immediately after my dog took a dip in the bathtub-sized pool it was in.

Response:

…first thing a little kid learns when bas fishing farm ponds with his uncle is to walk softly…….the big stick was a fly rod……john – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Seriously, I believe that trout can better hear your footsteps than they can hear your voice–especially if you are in the water.  Fish hear differently than humans but the ability of sound to travel through any given medium does not change.  Sound travelling in the air does not penetrate the water very well.  Sound travels extremely well in water, it just doesn’t make the transition from air to water very well.  You Footsteps can be enough, cf. the only time in my life I found a trout over 5 lb. actively feeding in daylight exactly as the books say.  This was about 25 year ago on the Pere Marquette, right at the Baldwin campground within sight of 20 to 30 tents. A big one showed about an hour before sundown and I timed the interval until its next rise — something between 7 and 12 minutes, and in exactly the same position.   After waiting appropriately I started drifting my dry through that lie, as carefully as possible.  The fish rose again bang on schedule — but a yard to one side and a bit downstream so did not see my fly.  So I carefully gathered the line and looked at my watch to time the next interval. — And within a couple of minutes two or three children ran along the streamside path.  I could feel the vibrations through my own boots.  And the fish never showed again…. — |        Carlsbad Springs, Ottawa, Canada        |

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A few years ago I was fishing the Tongariro river, here in New Zealand, in the company of a man in his eighties. We were fishing to visible fish, and lots of them, holding at the tail of a pool. We threw everything we had at them, all of these flies they greeted with complete disdain. "Only one way to fire them up,’ said my companion and tossed a thumping great rock in the midst of the fish at the tail of the pool. In less than a minute we were hooking up on just about every cast.????  On quiet days on just about any river here-abouts, we pray for a canoe, or rapid-running raft. Stirs the fish up no end. As I have heard Americans say, "Go figure". Well I’ll be damned, that’s a new one.  What about falling in, does that help? — Levi "So long, and thanks for all the fish."

Yes, falling in does help.  Why, just last week I had walked down to the creek after dinner to do some fishing before dark.  I’d been casting to rising fish for 15 or 20 minutes when I lost my footing and ended up in the water.  5 minutes later a kid rode by on his bike and asked if I had caught anything.  I said ‘no’ and told him that I had just fallen in.  He laughed.  2 or 3 casts later I caught a fish and another shortly after that.  Then the kid and his dad show up and start fishing just downstream of me and they’re catching fish too.  Before I fell in, I didn’t even have a bite.  After falling in, I caught fish. Go figure. Tom Before you buy.

Response:

wayno, who admittedly doesn’t look all that good in green tights

I could have lived without that one in my head. Joe F.

Response:

waldo writes: wayno, who admittedly doesn’t look all that good in green tights yeah a sad sight for sure…. but, laurie seemed to like the lace and frills. waldo <g

You shouldn’t talk — there is no way to describe you and those horrid green waders.  Well, maybe there is —-you look like a sick transvestite frog is those things.  If they check your luggage when you fly up to Portland, you will probably be arrested. Louie

Response:

You shouldn’t talk — there is no way to describe you and those horrid green waders.  Well, maybe there is —-you look like a sick transvestite frog is those things.  If they check your luggage when you fly up to Portland, you will probably be arrested.

Especially if they mistake me (sitting next to him on the flight) as a minor. –Steve

Response:

Seriously, I believe that trout can better hear your footsteps than they can hear your voice–especially if you are in the water.  Fish hear differently than humans but the ability of sound to travel through any given medium does not change.  Sound travelling in the air does not penetrate the water very well.  Sound travels extremely well in water, it just doesn’t make the transition from air to water very well.  You

Footsteps can be enough, cf. the only time in my life I found a trout over 5 lb. actively feeding in daylight exactly as the books say.  This was about 25 year ago on the Pere Marquette, right at the Baldwin campground within sight of 20 to 30 tents. A big one showed about an hour before sundown and I timed the interval until its next rise — something between 7 and 12 minutes, and in exactly the same position.   After waiting appropriately I started drifting my dry through that lie, as carefully as possible.  The fish rose again bang on schedule — but a yard to one side and a bit downstream so did not see my fly.  So I carefully gathered the line and looked at my watch to time the next interval. — And within a couple of minutes two or three children ran along the streamside path.  I could feel the vibrations through my own boots.  And the fish never showed again…. — |        Carlsbad Springs, Ottawa, Canada        |

Response:

When I lived in England, I used to fish the Great Ouse for pike.  Clear water and nothing moving was the rule of the day.  What my tactic came to be was casting after the boats that came down.  The boats would stir the minnows (gudgeon) out of the weeds and the pike new this and would move in with a slashing attack.  You could watch them flying into the center of the river as a boat lumbered by.  Great fishing.       Frank Reid Before you buy.

Response:

When I lived in England, I used to fish the Great Ouse for pike.  Clear water and nothing moving was the rule of the day.  What my tactic came to be was casting after the boats that came down.  The boats would stir the minnows (gudgeon) out of the weeds and the pike new this and would move in with a slashing attack.  You could watch them flying into the center of the river as a boat lumbered by.  Great fishing.

A similar thing occasionally happens on the Salmon R. (NY) during the salmon run.   Things can be slow for a while until a drift boat going through moves ‘em around a bit. Joe F.

Response:

Peter    hilarious.  and the poor misguided man claims he will outfish *me* at the maine clave.  *me*, the peter pan of the smokys! wayno, who admittedly doesn’t look all that good in green tights

Peter Pan, eh?  and exactly what are your intentions toward Tinker Bell? Peter the panning

Response:

I still think that loud wading will spook fish. On the other hand in the fall when jet boat from the lodge go by it does increase the feeding activity after they go by. I ‘m sure that the jet boat wake dislodges eggs on the river bottom causing a feeding frenzy.    Ian – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A few years ago I was fishing the Tongariro river, here in New Zealand, in the company of a man in his eighties. We were fishing to visible fish, and lots of them, holding at the tail of a pool. We threw everything we had at them, all of these flies they greeted with complete disdain. "Only one way to fire them up,’ said my companion and tossed a thumping great rock in the midst of the fish at the tail of the pool. In less than a minute we were hooking up on just about every cast.????  On quiet days on just about any river here-abouts, we pray for a canoe, or rapid-running raft. Stirs the fish up no end. As I have heard Americans say, "Go figure". Well I’ll be damned, that’s a new one.  What about falling in, does that help? — Levi "So long, and thanks for all the fish."

Response:

A few years ago I was fishing the Tongariro river, here in New Zealand, in the company of a man in his eighties. We were fishing to visible fish, and lots of them, holding at the tail of a pool. We threw everything we had at them, all of these flies they greeted with complete disdain. "Only one way to fire them up,’ said my companion and tossed a thumping great rock in the midst of the fish at the tail of the pool. In less than a minute we were hooking up on just about every cast.????  On quiet days on just about any river here-abouts, we pray for a canoe, or rapid-running raft. Stirs the fish up no end. As I have heard Americans say, "Go figure". — Tony Bishop  New Zealand http://bishfish.co.nz

Response:

A few years ago I was fishing the Tongariro river, here in New Zealand, in the company of a man in his eighties. We were fishing to visible fish, and lots of them, holding at the tail of a pool. We threw everything we had at them, all of these flies they greeted with complete disdain. "Only one way to fire them up,’ said my companion and tossed a thumping great rock in the midst of the fish at the tail of the pool. In less than a minute we were hooking up on just about every cast.????  On quiet days on just about any river here-abouts, we pray for a canoe, or rapid-running raft. Stirs the fish up no end. As I have heard Americans say, "Go figure".

Well I’ll be damned, that’s a new one.  What about falling in, does that help? — Levi "So long, and thanks for all the fish."

Response:

Do above the water noises (eg. someone talking loudly or calling out)

According Gary A. Borger in his book Nymphing, "Sound generated in water is louder than a similar sound generated on the bank.  Thus, the angler should not wade unless necessary, and then he should wade cautiously, quietly, and slowly.  Sounds in the air do not enter the water unless they are of explosive force; so talking won’t bother the fish at all. Padishar

Response:

[rocky store snipped] As I have heard Americans say, "Go figure". Well I’ll be damned, that’s a new one.  What about falling in, does that help? — Levi

Doubt it.  If that were true, Louie would be the best damn trout fisherman on the planet.  <g Peter

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Doubt it.  If that were true, Louie would be the best damn trout fisherman on the planet.  <g

Well, that’s what he says, isn’t it? <g — Charlie…

Response:

Well I’ll be damned, that’s a new one.  What about falling in, does that help? — Levi Doubt it.  If that were true, Louie would be the best damn trout fisherman on the planet.  <g Peter

        hilarious.  and the poor misguided man claims he will outfish *me* at the maine clave.  *me*, the peter pan of the smokys! wayno, who admittedly doesn’t look all that good in green tights

Response:

        hilarious.  and the poor misguided man claims he will outfish *me* at the maine clave.  *me*, the peter pan of the smokys! wayno, who admittedly doesn’t look all that good in green tights

yeah a sad sight for sure…. but, laurie seemed to like the lace and frills. waldo <g

Response:

Do above the water noises (eg. someone talking loudly or calling out) put trout down? How about canoes passing by? How long should I wait or should I move on to another spot? Bob

Response:

Do above the water noises (eg. someone talking loudly or calling out) put trout down? How about canoes passing by? How long should I wait or should I move on to another spot? Bob

Of course talking puts trout down–why else would all those old guys constantly be telling their kids to be quiet? Seriously, I believe that trout can better hear your footsteps than they can hear your voice–especially if you are in the water.  Fish hear differently than humans but the ability of sound to travel through any given medium does not change.  Sound travelling in the air does not penetrate the water very well.  Sound travels extremely well in water, it just doesn’t make the transition from air to water very well.  You can’t hear above water human voices very well when you are underwater, and I doubt that trout can either.  You can, however, hear two rocks banged together underwater very well if you are underwater at the time.  You could yell all day when standing in a sandy bottom river and not put the fish down, but not talking while every third step you make is knocking rocks together underfoot would be pointless.  Even when you are on shore I think that the trout can hear your footsteps better than your voice. Canoes–maybe, but not too much if canoes are a common occurence and rarely contain fishermen.  If the fish associate canoes with being caught, well, all bets are off.  Oars banging the side of the canoe, etc. could put fish down quickly. How long to wait?  Not long.  Just keep fishing–move if you think the canoe has seriously disturbed the area but don’t just stop fishing for 10 minutes because a canoe went by with some screaming kids in it. Maybe the fish do take a few minutes to resume feeding, but why wait? The fish will resume feeding at their own pace and you want your fly in their sights when they do. Tom Before you buy.

Response:

Trout have no ears as such, but can sense vibrations very well indeed. Talking should not normally disturb them, but it may well disturb people who are trying to catch them, as will boom boxes, dogs, canoes, children throwing stones etc etc. Depending on circumstances, most fish will resume feeding within ten minutes to half an hour after being disturbed, so it is probably better to wait and try again, at least until the next lot of canoeists, children, dogs, etc appears, before roundly cursing, and going home. TL MC — "In order to know what is possible one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do above the water noises (eg. someone talking loudly or calling out) put trout down? How about canoes passing by? How long should I wait or should I move on to another spot? Bob

Response:

The other day I was fishing my home river. I was catching a trout now and then using a white miller caddis.As I rounded a bend I noticed a fish rising beside the shoreline alders. I was about to cast when out of the woods came a big branch followed by a very large black lab.Two kids,probably about 8 years old, were standing there grinning like all get out. The rest of the family was camped back in the woods. I made my way past the kids expecting that that was the end of any fishing in that stretch. Then I noticed a rise about 50′ upstream from the game of fetch. And then another. For the next half hour or so I cast to and caught about half a dozen fish no more than a 100′ from the on going water sports taking place  behind me. The noise obviously took a back seat in the fishes minds to the food floating over their heads. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do above the water noises (eg. someone talking loudly or calling out) put trout down? How about canoes passing by? How long should I wait or should I move on to another spot? Bob Of course talking puts trout down–why else would all those old guys constantly be telling their kids to be quiet? Seriously, I believe that trout can better hear your footsteps than they can hear your voice–especially if you are in the water.  Fish hear differently than humans but the ability of sound to travel through any given medium does not change.  Sound travelling in the air does not penetrate the water very well.  Sound travels extremely well in water, it just doesn’t make the transition from air to water very well.  You can’t hear above water human voices very well when you are underwater, and I doubt that trout can either.  You can, however, hear two rocks banged together underwater very well if you are underwater at the time.  You could yell all day when standing in a sandy bottom river and not put the fish down, but not talking while every third step you make is knocking rocks together underfoot would be pointless.  Even when you are on shore I think that the trout can hear your footsteps better than your voice. Canoes–maybe, but not too much if canoes are a common occurence and rarely contain fishermen.  If the fish associate canoes with being caught, well, all bets are off.  Oars banging the side of the canoe, etc. could put fish down quickly. How long to wait?  Not long.  Just keep fishing–move if you think the canoe has seriously disturbed the area but don’t just stop fishing for 10 minutes because a canoe went by with some screaming kids in it. Maybe the fish do take a few minutes to resume feeding, but why wait? The fish will resume feeding at their own pace and you want your fly in their sights when they do. Tom Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

As somebody else already mentioned in the thread,a loop in the leader to tippet connection is a bad idea.If you plan on making any type of technical presentation whatsoever a looped tippet will not be responsive.Heck,most dryfly fishing gurus recommend that you don’t use a loop anywhere in your leader because of the effect it has on presentation.The minimal amount of money or line that you would save with a replaceable tippet would not be worth the loss in accuracy.

Response:

Hi Fly2bass, I never really thought about it since I do not use loop connectors, except for line to leader.  But does this mean that the braided leader systems are not a good thing?  This is the only case where I have seen loop to loop connection for the leader to tippet. — Fritz – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As somebody else already mentioned in the thread,a loop in the leader to tippet connection is a bad idea.If you plan on making any type of technical presentation whatsoever a looped tippet will not be responsive.Heck,most dryfly fishing gurus recommend that you don’t use a loop anywhere in your leader because of the effect it has on presentation.The minimal amount of money or line that you would save with a replaceable tippet would not be worth the loss in accuracy.

Response:

<Rant on – I believe the origninator of this thread was Greg Wood.  Greg, I flat cannot believe that a looped tippet connection has ANY negative effect on presentation, dry fly or otherwise.  This is based on a fair amount of experience with these connections.  I do hope you try the looped system and report here what you conclude from the experiment.  I would consider THAT useful information.  That kind of information is what I read this newsgroup for.  Don’t worry about the gushing negativity based on heresy. – Rant off Hi Fitz, I haven’t tried the Orvis system yet because I can’t see what advantage the Orvis system might offer over more conventional setups.  Still, I plan to give em a try next time I place an order with Orvis, simply because I am curious. Always looking for a better way to do things.  Does anyone out there who has actually tried the Ovis leader system like it?  If not, Why? You would see more examples of loop-to-loop rigging if you read the saltwater literature or talked to people that fish the salt.  Lefty Kreh is the most widely known advocate of loop connections that I can name. I hesitate to use his name because last time I said "Lefty does it " I drew hostile fire.   I don’t know how widespread the practice is but it does have a following. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Fly2bass, I never really thought about it since I do not use loop connectors, except for line to leader.  But does this mean that the braided leader systems are not a good thing?  This is the only case where I have seen loop to loop connection for the leader to tippet. — Fritz As somebody else already mentioned in the thread,a loop in the leader to tippet connection is a bad idea.If you plan on making any type of technical presentation whatsoever a looped tippet will not be responsive.Heck,most dryfly fishing gurus recommend that you don’t use a loop anywhere in your leader because of the effect it has on presentation.The minimal amount of money or line that you would save with a replaceable tippet would not be worth the loss in accuracy.

Response:

John A Schroeder writes:

(snip) I haven’t tried the Orvis system yet because I can’t see what advantage the Orvis system might offer over more conventional setups.  Still, I plan to give em a try next time I place an order with Orvis, simply because I am curious. Always looking for a better way to do things.  Does anyone out there who has actually tried the Ovis leader system like it?  If not, Why?

I have used the braided loop on the line to a perfection loop on the leader, and it certainly didn’t stop me from catching fish.  But, if the braided loop is put on incorrectly, it could "hinge".  This happeded to me once and I simply snipped it off and put a new one on – worked fine after that.   I also use a nail knot connection on my lighter weight rods and do not notice a difference.   I think that the biggest objection to the loop to loop is that Orvis is known for putting the loop on the fly line. Dave LaCourse "We can’t change the winds, but….. we can adjust our sails!!"

Response:

Question:

I will be arriving Gatlinburg Aug. 4 in time for an all afternoon class and will be there for the rest of the week. Is anyone else going? Would like to meet to have a few beers etc. I am sure that Marc Pinsel as President and co-founder of The Classic Atlantic Brim Fly Society will call at least one meeting to do serious liver damage at one of the local bars. This is the biggest show of the year for the FFF and if you have never been to one it is something else! They seldom have the big show this far South, so it is a real opportunity for many of us. They are also having a two day long Bamboo Rod Symposium. The one I attended last year in Idaho Falls was very interesting. Big Dale

Response:

Hi Dale, Gretchen and I are leaving today in the motor home. We plan on a slow trip and a little fishing in the process. See you there. Tight Lines – Al Beatty http://www.btsflyfishing.com

Response:

I’ll make the CABFS meetings for sure.  I’ll be setting up the conservation booth on the 4th.  And I’m really looking forward to some of the casting clinics.  If anyone is going up into the park to fish, please post.  We had a great time at the SE conclave last year, some rain, but it was a great time. Dick Whiting – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I will be arriving Gatlinburg Aug. 4 in time for an all afternoon class and will be there for the rest of the week. Is anyone else going? Would like to meet to have a few beers etc. I am sure that Marc Pinsel as President and co-founder of The Classic Atlantic Brim Fly Society will call at least one meeting to do serious liver damage at one of the local bars. This is the biggest show of the year for the FFF and if you have never been to one it is something else! They seldom have the big show this far South, so it is a real opportunity for many of us. They are also having a two day long Bamboo Rod Symposium. The one I attended last year in Idaho Falls was very interesting. Big Dale

Response:

Question:

This past summer, my wife (god bless her) brought home a mint-condition model 1498 Pfleuger Medalist from one of her garage-sale sorties. It is loaded with backing and line in what appears to be unfished condition. Question: Is there any way I can figure out the weight of the line? There are no markings on it. Why don’t line manufacturers mark flyline anyways? It would seem to be a simple manufacturing step. Thanks Joe

Hi Joe, A 1498 was the biggest Medalist and was for rods from #9 and larger. It might have a shooting head on it? If you pull it off for about 20 feet you will notice that it is either a level line or has a front taper for the first 6 to 12 feet. This means that it is a tapered line and if it is a light color, then it is probably a floating line. At about 30 plus feet, but before 40′, it gets smaller again, then it is a weight forward. If it stays large for more that 40 feet it is probably a double taper. If you go  back to about 20 feet from the front and measure the diameter with a micrometer, you can get a pretty good idea what size it is. If I remember right, about ~0.048" is a 5 weight floater?  Email me some more info or put it on the group and we can determine what it is. PS: If that is an old Pflueger that was made in the USA and is in good condition, it would be great for some heavier fishing. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

Response:

Sorry to hammer the point one more time…… It’s NOT the LAST 30′ (unless of course its a double taper, in that case you can weigh either end) It’s the FIRST 30′ ( the end you tie your leader to,……. but don’t weigh the leader!) David

Response:

David, First and last is not a good description because either end can be first or last depending on whether you are talking about going on or coming off the real.  The end you tie your leader to is a meaningful description. — Ernie Harrison Fly Fishing Books, Blood Knot Machine Wading Boots, Making Rods, Fly Tying Box Go to:  http://users.ccnet.com/~emh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry to hammer the point one more time…… It’s NOT the LAST 30′ (unless of course its a double taper, in that case you can weigh either end) It’s the FIRST 30′ ( the end you tie your leader to,……. but don’t weigh the leader!) David

Response:

Joe, all the handling characteristics of a fly line are determined by the line’s plastic coating. Based on what we’ve seen with Cortland’s LazerLine, I’d have to guess that good ‘printability’ and good handling are not common in the same line. I’d expect the 1498 to be spooled with 7wt or higher. Try casting it on an 8wt rod and see how it feels at 30 feet.

Response:

Thanks for correcting my error Don and Dave all the rest of the sharp eyed readers, that’s what happens when you buy a cheap keyboard. — Ernie Harrison Fly Fishing Books, Blood Knot Machine Wading Boots, Making Rods, Fly Tying Box Go to:  http://users.ccnet.com/~emh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Question: Is there any way I can figure out the weight of the line? There are no markings on it. Why don’t line manufacturers mark flyline anyways? It would seem to be a simple manufacturing step. Thirty years of experience suggests either it is not simple or there is insufficient market demand. Weigh the last 30" of the line. That should be the last 30′ (not ") excluding taper. Most people find it easier to try the line on a rod of known type and see how it feels. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

 Weigh the last 30" of the line. — Ernie Harrison Fly Fishing Books, Blood Knot Machine Wading Boots, Making Rods, Fly Tying Box Go to:  http://users.ccnet.com/~emh

I think Ernie means " the FIRST 30 FEET" David

Response:

This past summer, my wife (god bless her) brought home a mint-condition model 1498 Pfleuger Medalist from one of her garage-sale sorties. It is loaded with backing and line in what appears to be unfished condition. Question: Is there any way I can figure out the weight of the line? There are no markings on it. Why don’t line manufacturers mark flyline anyways? It would seem to be a simple manufacturing step. Thanks Joe

Response:

Hi: I had a similar problem when I found a full shoting head when steelhead fishing last winter.  I took into my local fly shop to see if they could help.  The owner simply weighed the line and checked a catalogue he had to identify the weight.  Give this a try. Chris Brown – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This past summer, my wife (god bless her) brought home a mint-condition model 1498 Pfleuger Medalist from one of her garage-sale sorties. It is loaded with backing and line in what appears to be unfished condition. Question: Is there any way I can figure out the weight of the line? There are no markings on it. Why don’t line manufacturers mark flyline anyways? It would seem to be a simple manufacturing step. Thanks Joe

Response:

Weigh the last 30" of the line. — Ernie Harrison Fly Fishing Books, Blood Knot Machine Wading Boots, Making Rods, Fly Tying Box Go to:  http://users.ccnet.com/~emh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This past summer, my wife (god bless her) brought home a mint-condition model 1498 Pfleuger Medalist from one of her garage-sale sorties. It is loaded with backing and line in what appears to be unfished condition. Question: Is there any way I can figure out the weight of the line? There are no markings on it. Why don’t line manufacturers mark flyline anyways? It would seem to be a simple manufacturing step. Thanks Joe

Response:

Question: Is there any way I can figure out the weight of the line? There are no markings on it. Why don’t line manufacturers mark flyline anyways? It would seem to be a simple manufacturing step.

Thirty years of experience suggests either it is not simple or there is insufficient market demand. Weigh the last 30" of the line.

That should be the last 30′ (not ") excluding taper. Most people find it easier to try the line on a rod of known type and see how it feels. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

This past summer, my wife (god bless her) brought home a mint-condition model 1498 Pfleuger Medalist from one of her garage-sale sorties. It is loaded with backing and line in what appears to be unfished condition. Question: Is there any way I can figure out the weight of the line? There are no markings on it. Why don’t line manufacturers mark flyline anyways? It would seem to be a simple manufacturing step. Thanks Joe

Send me your shipping address and I’ll send you a bottle of PZ Line Dressing.   This is A MUST!  Do not attempt to cast this line until you dress it with PZ and get the placticizers back into the plastic coating. After you do this, you simply need to put it on a six weight fly rod which is the average weight used today and try it. Next, after you determine the weight fly rod the fly line is designed for, (and many times you can tell by when you have the fly line stretched out between ’stops’ so you can clean and recondition it.  (Let it set over night so the dressing has time to work before whipping it down and reloading it on the reel) Take an Indelable Marker Pen and a foot above the butt section ON the fly line, (if it is a seven weight for example) put a wide marker band for the number 5 and two narrow dot bands for the number one and then two add up to SEVEN.  I will try and use this key board to show you an example:  ___ _ _  = #7 WT  ___ _  = #6 WT   ___ = #5 WT  _ _ _ _ = #4 Wt Going the other way:  ___ _ _ _ = #8 WT If you want to remember if it is a DT or a WF fly line you can simply assume it is a double taper unless it has, six inches up the line another mark   _  to indicate Weight Forward because the extra mark is forward of your line wt.code. As you may well know, marking pens have a wide felt tip and a pointed one. But you get the idea and frankly, if you do this from now on, it is a system that will never let you down. Hope you like it.

Response:

Question:

Does anyone have a web address for fly fishing screen savers or wallpaper?

Response:

Try http://www.webshots.com Does anyone have a web address for fly fishing screen savers or wallpaper?

– Steve Vaughn Kodak Park Health, Safety & Environmental Services Eastman Kodak Company – http://www.kodak.com Phone: (716)722-4744 Fax:   (716)722-3695

Response:

www.webshots.com Great site…and worth purchasing as you can set up your own screensavers from scanned photos…or copied photos etc. Barry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone have a web address for fly fishing screen savers or wallpaper?

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While this may not be flyfising, but there is a free fish screensaver at www.download.com called mopyfish you can get. Here is  the brief descrition:                  The HP MOPy Fish (Piscenus                  Mopei Floataneus) lives on your                  desktop in its own aquarium, soothing                  your mind with its calming nature. Its                  movements are based on actual fish                  for realism. The HP MOPy Fish will                  develop its own unique personality,                  depending on how you treat it: It will                  perish if neglected and prosper with                  proper care.                  Minimum requirements:                  Windows 95/NT I have not tried this screensaver myself… JT – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone have a web address for fly fishing screen savers or wallpaper?

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Question:

Though I know I’m swimming upstream on this one, does anybody out there rent drift boats without a guide/oarsman to go with them? I ask because I want to take one out for a day somewhere just to try it out (because I might buy one at some point in the future). I am an expert whitewater kayaker and canoeist, and have years of experience reading and running almost every kind of river and rapids imaginable.  So unless there is something completely bizarre about drift boats that only much experience in a drift boat can prepare you for, I think I could handle one with no problems. Scott W. Maryland P.S. – yes, I know I’ll never find a drift boat within hundreds of miles of Maryland!

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Driftboat rentals are available on the Bighorn River through the Bighorn Angler

fly shop in Ft. Smith and other shops there. Denver, Colorado        ftp://ftp.rmi.net/pub2/gwgodden

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Though I know I’m swimming upstream on this one, does anybody out there rent drift boats without a guide/oarsman to go with them? I ask because I want to take one out for a day somewhere just to try it out (because I might buy one at some point in the future). I am an expert whitewater kayaker and canoeist, and have years of experience reading and running almost every kind of river and rapids imaginable.  So unless there is something completely bizarre about drift boats that only much experience in a drift boat can prepare you for, I think I could handle one with no problems. Scott W. Maryland

Hi Scott, Many fly shops rent drift boats.  I believe Dave Kumlien at the Orvis Store hear in Bozeman rents them. He is often on this group, you could ask him. Regarding handling a drift boat compared to handling a canoe, etc.: The fact you can read the water is definitely in your favor. When operating a canoe you are usually stroking forward on the paddle as you move downstream – usually a little faster than the current. Most of the time in a drift boat you are pulling back on the oars to slow you trip down the river. On a day the wind blows up stream you may have to push on the oars to go on downstream, depending how strong the current may be.  I’m a guide here in Montana and on the Yellowstone for example the wind usually blows downstream during the morning and upstream during the afternoon. So in the morning you are pulling like crazy on the oars and in the afternoon you are pusing on them.  It sure keep you in good shape. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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My recommendation would be to go with a guide the first couple of times no matter what.   I remember a John Gierach magazine story on the Roaring Fork where he said it’s a good easy float from bonedale to glenwood. Well…it is a good float, but it can be class II-III at times and even the best oarsman hit rocks or bottom.  You have about 800 pounds, $2000 worth of equipment and 3 lives, in a damned river. It requires a respectful approach. If you get screwed in a Dory, dip an upstream edge or get broadside to something, you can die or be seriously hurt, real easy.  Buddy Mike had an accident like that two years ago and had to have fingers reattached.  He had let someone else row the boat, who seemed fairly competant.  Mike has been guiding since before dirt. The first time I rowed a driftboat, I got backwards right where the Crystal flows into the Fork.  The guide (behind me) climbed over my back and grabbed the oars and got us straightened out.  It never happened again, but the guide made me take some burly lines and channels just so he’d feel good about me having the boat on my own.   When we got to the end of the run, he insisted that we do it again…and we did. My confidence soared. That’s what you need, IMO, is a guide like that. TimW

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My recommendation would be to go with a guide the first couple of times no matter what. I remember a John Gierach magazine story on the Roaring Fork where he said it’s a good easy float from bonedale to glenwood. Well…it is a good float, but it can be class II-III at times and even the best oarsman hit rocks or bottom.  You have about 800 pounds, $2000 worth of equipment and 3 lives, in a damned river. It requires a respectful approach. <other comments deleted

Excellent post Tim.  I think to many people saw A River Runs Through it and don’t give mother nature the respect she deserves.  Each river is different and if it’s at all dangerous should be navigated with a guide the first couple of times. BTW – You are fishing again aren’t you Tim? Vince

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Rental outfits usually rent 12-14 foot rafts with frames which work for float fishing, but are better when used with 5 friends and a cooler full of beer, It’s almost impossible to rent a hard boat.

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My recommendation would be to go with a guide the first couple of times no matter what.   If you get screwed in a Dory, dip an upstream edge or get broadside to something, you can die or be seriously hurt, real easy.  Buddy Mike had an accident like that two years ago and had to have fingers reattached.  He had let someone else row the boat, who seemed fairly competant.  Mike has been guiding since before dirt.

Hmmm…I’m still not sure I’m convinced.  I’m not _opposed_ to going with a guide, but as I mentioned in the original post of this thread, I’ve been paddling canoes & kayaks in (big) whitewater for years. (That’s up to class IV water.)   Dipping an upstream edge or pinning on a rock are hazards just as serious and real in a canoe as in a dory.   The only thing I can figure that would take getting used to in a dory is the larger size of the boat and slower response time than a canoe. But then some drift boat rowers may argue with that.  : ) Also, oars offer you far greater power than single canoe paddle! At any rate, I wouldn’t rent a drift boat to run a class III river to start with.  (I would feel completely comfortable in class II, though.) Scott W.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Though I know I’m swimming upstream on this one, does anybody out there rent drift boats without a guide/oarsman to go with them? I ask because I want to take one out for a day somewhere just to try it out (because I might buy one at some point in the future). I am an expert whitewater kayaker and canoeist, and have years of experience reading and running almost every kind of river and rapids imaginable.  So unless there is something completely bizarre about drift boats that only much experience in a drift boat can prepare you for, I think I could handle one with no problems. Scott W. Maryland Hi Scott, Many fly shops rent drift boats.  I believe Dave Kumlien at the Orvis Store hear in Bozeman rents them. He is often on this group, you could ask him. Regarding handling a drift boat compared to handling a canoe, etc.: The fact you can read the water is definitely in your favor. When operating a canoe you are usually stroking forward on the paddle as you move downstream – usually a little faster than the current. Most of the time in a drift boat you are pulling back on the oars to slow you trip down the river. On a day the wind blows up stream you may have to push on the oars to go on downstream, depending how strong the current may be.  I’m a guide here in Montana and on the Yellowstone for example the wind usually blows downstream during the morning and upstream during the afternoon. So in the morning you are pulling like crazy on the oars and in the afternoon you are pusing on them.  It sure keep you in good shape. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Though I know I’m swimming upstream on this one, does anybody out there rent drift boats without a guide/oarsman to go with them? I ask because I want to take one out for a day somewhere just to try it out (because I might buy one at some point in the future). I am an expert whitewater kayaker and canoeist, and have years of experience reading and running almost every kind of river and rapids imaginable.  So unless there is something completely bizarre about drift boats that only much experience in a drift boat can prepare you for, I think I could handle one with no problems. Scott W. Maryland Hi Scott, Many fly shops rent drift boats.  I believe Dave Kumlien at the Orvis Store hear in Bozeman rents them. He is often on this group, you could ask him. Regarding handling a drift boat compared to handling a canoe, etc.: The fact you can read the water is definitely in your favor. When operating a canoe you are usually stroking forward on the paddle as you move downstream – usually a little faster than the current. Most of the time in a drift boat you are pulling back on the oars to slow you trip down the river. On a day the wind blows up stream you may have to push on the oars to go on downstream, depending how strong the current may be.  I’m a guide here in Montana and on the Yellowstone for example the wind usually blows downstream during the morning and upstream during the afternoon. So in the morning you are pulling like crazy on the oars and in the afternoon you are pusing on them.  It sure keep you in good shape. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

The makers of Hyde drift boats have an excellent video on the basics of using a drift boat.  They are located in Idaho Falls Idaho.  I think viewing it would be worth your time before you tried one.

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I am an expert whitewater kayaker and canoeist, and have years of experience reading and running almost every kind of river and rapids imaginable.  So unless there is something completely bizarre about drift boats that only much experience in a drift boat can prepare you for, I think I could handle one with no problems. Scott W. Maryland

There is a big difference between kayaking, canoeing, and driftboating. Kayak and canoe are paddled forward and you approach whitewater quite differently than in a drift boat. In a driftboat you row backwards into whitewater so the rapid approaches slower, and aim the ass end in the direction you want to go. A raft that you row handles similarly to a driftboat however, so you might wan’t to practice on a raft, which will bounce off if a mistake is made, before trying a drift boat. Maybe the rapids aren’t that big in your area in which case I should just shut up. You could also get a guide and then ask him if you could row for a while, I doubt he would object. Martin Allen

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Though I know I’m swimming upstream on this one, does anybody out there rent drift boats without a guide/oarsman to go with them? I ask because I want to take one out for a day somewhere just to try it out (because I might buy one at some point in the future).

I rented a drift boat by myself a couple of days last July on the Missouri from the Missouri River Trout Shop in Craig.  They shuttled me up to the put-in below Holter Dam and I spent about 14 hours (including a midday break when the river was pretty dead) drifting down to the takeout in front of their place. Fortunately, they served dinner up until midnight or so so that I was able to eat after enjoying the late evening caddis hatch. I’m not an expert kayaker or oarsman, but I am reasonably competent.  I had no problems except one time when I anchored in fast water to fight what turned out to be a 20" rainbow, and then had to raise the anchor because he had most of my line downstream and wasn’t coming back.  I had to go to him.  Its not too hard maintaining a good course with an occasional push or pull of an oar, sometimes with just my knee.  It helped a lot that I had floated this same area a couple of times with a guide the year before, but the river was really quite different since the water flow in early July ‘95 (9,000 cfs or more) was a lot more than in July ‘94 (3,000 cfs). I had a large boat– set up for commercial guiding with an oarsman and two fishermen.  A smaller, lighter boat would have been better. Also, I don’t think I’d want to do it on a very narrow or very fast river.  Trying to fish by oneself from a drift boat on the Big Blackfoot would be pretty hard. Try it; you’ll like it. Phil Holt

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There is a big difference between kayaking, canoeing, and driftboating. Kayak and canoe are paddled forward and you approach whitewater quite differently than in a drift boat.

   True…but _reading_ water is identical in both cases: knowing how to recognize chutes, tongues, shallow water, holes, pillows, eddy lines, boils, side currents, etc. In a driftboat you row backwards into whitewater so the rapid approaches slower, and aim the ass end in the direction you want to go.

Okay, now I’m a bit confused.  I’ve seen photos (I think maybe in the Hyde brochure) of drift boats running big drops and punching holes with the bow of the boat pointing downstream, which makes sense, since this is how the boat will ride most effectively over waves. And whether you’re in a drift boat or a raft, you don’t want to be going too slow if there are any big holes to punch!  : ) A raft that you row handles similarly to a driftboat however, so you might wan’t to practice on a raft, which will bounce off if a mistake is made, before trying a drift boat.

Good idea…I might look into this. Maybe the rapids aren’t that big in your area in which case I should just shut up.

Well, the Potomac River gorge at this very moment is running at over 40,000 c.f.s. — far bigger than many western rivers!  (It averages around 10,000 c.f.s., no small potatoes.) I don’t say this in an argumentative way, but just to offer a slight nudge to western folks who think all the big whitewater is out there! We’ve got piles of gargantuan whitewater within 3 hours of Washington, DC: the Cheat River, the Gauley, the New, the Potomac, the Youghiogheny, etc. etc.   : ) —Scott W.

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Just remember to always keep the stern downstream and take the waves as Head- on as possible. The most common reason for capsizing a hard boat comes when the boat gets sideways in the current and one side dips bellow the water (highsiding) , where the current can push the boat into a rock or even the bank, the obsticle becoming the fulcrum and the boat acting as a lever. Don’t underestimate the power of moving water, use the rocker of the driftboat to push you up and over the waves, always keeping a close eye on what’s ahead long before you get there, the last thing you want are suprises. Hard boats are very capable of taking heavy water, but they row a lot differently than rafts and are much less forgiving. Play it safe and have fun!  PRAM JAMMER

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – IF YOU ARE LOOKING TO FISH THE S.PLATTE RIVER NEAR DECKERS COLORADO LET ME KNOW I CAN SHOW SOME GREAT PLACES TO FISH… ALSO IF YOU NEED LODGINGS I CAN GIVE YOU A NUMBER FOR LODGING RIGHT ON THE RIVER!!!!! I will be in Denver around May 1 and have several days to fish.  Would like to fish the S. Platte, but worry about the crowds.  Which section do you recommend: the Decker’s section or Cheesman Cyn?  Would it be better to go elsewhere to avoid the crowds, e.g the Frying Pan knowing I’ll waste half a day getting there?  Are there other streams near Denver that offer good fishing and more solitude?  Would appreciate your advice.

If you’re willing to drive from Denver to Basalt (Frying Pan), you’ll cross several good rivers, and actually drive along about 100 miles of fine water.   Beyond Eisenhower Tunnel, there’s The Blue, and just over Vail Pass there’s Gore Creek and the Eagle River, just to name a few.  Crowds are less a problem the farther west you travel (until you get to the Frying Pan).  Time is the question, however.  If you’re not familiar with these areas, and you’re based in Denver, you will spend most of the day driving.

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IF YOU ARE LOOKING TO FISH THE S.PLATTE RIVER NEAR DECKERS COLORADO LET ME KNOW I CAN SHOW SOME GREAT PLACES TO FISH… ALSO IF YOU NEED LODGINGS I CAN GIVE YOU A NUMBER FOR LODGING RIGHT ON THE RIVER!!!!!

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IF YOU ARE LOOKING TO FISH THE S.PLATTE RIVER NEAR DECKERS COLORADO LET ME KNOW I CAN SHOW SOME GREAT PLACES TO FISH… ALSO IF YOU NEED LODGINGS I CAN GIVE YOU A NUMBER FOR LODGING RIGHT ON THE RIVER!!!!!

I will be in Denver around May 1 and have several days to fish.  Would like to fish the S. Platte, but worry about the crowds.  Which section do you recommend: the Decker’s section or Cheesman Cyn?  Would it be better to go elsewhere to avoid the crowds, e.g the Frying Pan knowing I’ll waste half a day getting there?  Are there other streams near Denver that offer good fishing and more solitude?  Would appreciate your advice.

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Advice is usually worth what you pay for it, but having been in Co. for 22 yrs let me share my thoughts: 1. N. Platte is not only crowded, but very tough!! Need to have a great deal of skill to walk away with a good day. 2. The Pan is great that time of year, but also can get crowded.  If your interested, give me a call and I’ll fax a map of a few little know spots on the Pan where the crowds won’t get in your way. 3. Parts of the Blue below the resv. can be good. 4. Do you want just Rivers or are you able to belly boat? 5. There are a few spots on the Roaring Fork that are good w Green Drake coming off in late May. Hope this helps…. (Dick Fischer) writes:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – IF YOU ARE LOOKING TO FISH THE S.PLATTE RIVER NEAR DECKERS COLORADO LET ME KNOW I CAN SHOW SOME GREAT PLACES TO FISH… ALSO IF YOU NEED LODGINGS I CAN GIVE YOU A NUMBER FOR LODGING RIGHT ON THE RIVER!!!!! I will be in Denver around May 1 and have several days to fish.  Would like to fish the S. Platte, but worry about the crowds.  Which section do you recommend: the Decker’s section or Cheesman Cyn?  Would it be better to go elsewhere to avoid the crowds, e.g the Frying Pan knowing I’ll waste half a day getting there?  Are there other streams near Denver that offer good fishing and more solitude?  Would appreciate your advice.

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Question:

Petti) writes: ve heard that "The Tippet" is one of Orvis’ "Western Series" rods, and is considerably stiffer than the Ultra Fine.

The "Tippet" is a 7 1/2 foot 3 wt.fullflex rod.  The "Western Tippet" was a medium-fast action 3 wt. that is no longer made.                                                        Dan

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I’m thinking about buying a 2wt or 3wt fly rod for fishing small streams and catching stoked troat when I’m stuck in Phoenix during the winter. I have not cast any rods yet, but I was thinking about trying Orvis’ Ultra Fin and Tippet models.  I would also like to try some of the Sage rods. Does anyone have any opinions on these rods or recommendations about other rods?  Any information would be helpful.  Thanks!                                            John S. Hetrick

My brother has a Sage LL series 2 WT that is a lot of fun on brush choked streams.  It is very easy to be very accurate with it.  Even when you do screw up and slap the line down on the water, it does not scare the brookies.   You can trust my testimonial because I am an Orvis fan.  Saying nice things about Sage does not come easily. — Keep your stick on the ice.

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I like light weight rods.  I find them easier to fish and while you might give up something in distance or have to pick your places and moments in a headwind, using them forces me to pay attention to the closer water. You do have to I’ve got a orvis 8′3" western tippit that I love but dont believe is in production anymore.   In a fit of fuzzy thinking I built a sage LL #2 wt last winter.   The length escapes me but its probably 6′6" or so. Its ok but far too fast to make short casts easily. (I do like the length) I suspect it would fish better with a heaver line.

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short rod bellow 8Ft regadless of action, slow,fast etc… is not so efficent. if you like to cast million time to avoid the drag that’s fine. I like slow action rod because it will handle light tippet very well with big fish, casting don’t require critical timing for forward cast, I have tried scott, winston but I did found them too stiff. I was almost go for Glass fiber rod and I found this Rod makes here in NY called East Branch Rods. 1-800-337-EROD they are great rod and price is great (all under 200) they have finished rod or just blank or kit. They make fullline of trout and others but I think 8ft for 2wt is best. even in windy condition, they will cut righttrough. should give them try,

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m thinking about buying a 2wt or 3wt fly rod for fishing small streams and catching stoked troat when I’m stuck in Phoenix during the winter. I have not cast any rods yet, but I was thinking about trying Orvis’ Ultra Fin and Tippet models.  I would also like to try some of the Sage rods. Does anyone have any opinions on these rods or recommendations about other rods?  Any information would be helpful.  Thanks!                                                John S. Hetrick I made a sage III 9′ 3wt (390RPL) at the start of this season and I wouldn’t trade it for anything on calm days.  I’ve landed 16" RainBows without any problems but I did have some fun doing it….  The RPL models are very fast action. Frank I. Mason

On the other hand, if you want a slower action, an 8ft 3wt Winston is a wonderful rod.  I build custom rods and this is one of the most popular rods I build. Lyman  Hughes Ennis, MT Dallas, TX

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m thinking about buying a 2wt or 3wt fly rod for fishing small streams and catching stoked troat when I’m stuck in Phoenix during the winter.  I have not cast any rods yet, but I was thinking about trying Orvis’ Ultra Fin and Tippet models.  I would also like to try some of the Sage rods.   Does anyone have any opinions on these rods or recommendations about other rods?  Any information would be helpful.  Thanks!                                                John S. Hetrick Well John; I gotta opinion, doesn’t everyone?? In this case however, it may be actually of some use. Before you go out and plunk that money down on that new rod. Dig through yer closet and find that short 4-5 weight that you bought for small creeks. Take that thing and line it with one of them #2 lines and see how you like it. Esp. if its a DT2 or a TT2. I think you may find, as other have that a #2 line will load a 4/5wt rod at a moderate distance with practice and work pretty darned well. Then when the wind picks up at the end of the day, you can pull out that other reel and line it up with a 4/5 and still cast when the folks with the 2s and 1s have headed back to the truck. The fast action 4/5 won’t work?? Hmmm, if it was a medium it would, anyway, this may be the excuse you’ve been looking for to get a 4/5 weight cane rod. A gentile action 4 or 5 weight 7 and a half ft bamboo rod oughta throw a 2 weight line just fine. Think about it, you can shop around and find an older 7 1/2 ft. 4/5 weight cane rod for something like the price of a new 2 weight graphite or boron, and it will cover more water under more conditions. This may be the one case for having 2 spools. thank me later.

I must whole heartedly agree with Chip. I made my dad a 7ft 3wt split cane rod. In the course of testing it out, I saw practically no difference in casting a 2wt line compared to a 3wt. Both were DT. I also tried it with a 4wt WF and the rod handled that line very well also. So he has a rod that can cast from a 2wt DT to a 4wt WF. I’ll bet that everything except the fastest (stiffest) light line rods would do the same. I might tend to go for the 3/4 wt range though, trying to cast a 2wt line with a 4/5wt rod might be too much of a stretch, but it, of course, would depend on the action of the rod. Small streams and light line is where split cane rods really come into their own. It’s really hard for me to convey to people the action and feel of a split cane rod. There is something about bamboo that really makes the rod feel like a natural extension of your arm. However, when the wind comes up, or you are fishing big water requiring long casts all day long, break out your fast action graphite 6wt. Don’t try to make a rod do something it’s not designed to do. You did ask for opinions didn’t you? Darryl Hayashida

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I’m thinking about buying a 2wt or 3wt fly rod for fishing small streams and catching stoked troat when I’m stuck in Phoenix during the winter. I have not cast any rods yet, but I was thinking about trying Orvis’ Ultra Fin and Tippet models.  I would also like to try some of the Sage rods.   Does anyone have any opinions on these rods or recommendations about other rods?  Any information would be helpful.  Thanks!                                            John S. Hetrick

I made a sage III 9′ 3wt (390RPL) at the start of this season and I wouldn’t trade it for anything on calm days.  I’ve landed 16" RainBows without any problems but I did have some fun doing it….  The RPL models are very fast action. Frank I. Mason

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I’m thinking about buying a 2wt or 3wt fly rod for fishing small streams and catching stoked troat when I’m stuck in Phoenix during the winter.  I have not cast any rods yet, but I was thinking about trying Orvis’ Ultra Fin and Tippet models.  I would also like to try some of the Sage rods.   Does anyone have any opinions on these rods or recommendations about other rods?  Any information would be helpful.  Thanks!                                                 John S. Hetrick

Do check out the Sage LL line.  They have some nice 3 and 4 wt rods in the 5 1/2 – 6 1/2 foot range. Steve –  A sunny day,       a box of midges,          and a wandering stream…    Man, this MUST be heaven!    <    Steve Kulpa    <<

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Try the Orvis Flea, great little 6 1/2′ with a DT3. Glenn

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I’m thinking about buying a 2wt or 3wt fly rod for fishing small streams and catching stoked troat when I’m stuck in Phoenix during the winter.  I have not cast any rods yet, but I was thinking about trying Orvis’ Ultra Fin and Tippet models.  I would also like to try some of the Sage rods.   Does anyone have any opinions on these rods or recommendations about other rods?  Any information would be helpful.  Thanks!                                            John S. Hetrick

Well John; I gotta opinion, doesn’t everyone?? In this case however, it may be actually of some use. Before you go out and plunk that money down on that new rod. Dig through yer closet and find that short 4-5 weight that you bought for small creeks. Take that thing and line it with one of them #2 lines and see how you like it. Esp. if its a DT2 or a TT2. I think you may find, as other have that a #2 line will load a 4/5wt rod at a moderate distance with practice and work pretty darned well. Then when the wind picks up at the end of the day, you can pull out that other reel and line it up with a 4/5 and still cast when the folks with the 2s and 1s have headed back to the truck. The fast action 4/5 won’t work?? Hmmm, if it was a medium it would, anyway, this may be the excuse you’ve been looking for to get a 4/5 weight cane rod. A gentile action 4 or 5 weight 7 and a half ft bamboo rod oughta throw a 2 weight line just fine. Think about it, you can shop around and find an older 7 1/2 ft. 4/5 weight cane rod for something like the price of a new 2 weight graphite or boron, and it will cover more water under more conditions. This may be the one case for having 2 spools. thank me later.

Response:

I’m thinking about buying a 2wt or 3wt fly rod for fishing small streams and catching stoked troat when I’m stuck in Phoenix during the winter.  I have not cast any rods yet, but I was thinking about trying Orvis’ Ultra Fin and Tippet models.  I would also like to try some of the Sage rods.   Does anyone have any opinions on these rods or recommendations about other rods?  Any information would be helpful.  Thanks!                                            John S. Hetrick

I built a rod from an Orvis Ultrafine blank last winter. It has become my ABSOLUTE FAVORITE rod for chasing trout in small streams. The only caveat I have is wind. If the areas you fish in are typically windy, don’t get the 2wt. You will kill yourself trying to cast in the wind. On days when the wind is calm, it throws everything from the tiniest dry flies (of course), to bead head nymphs with incredible accuracy. I use a Wulff Triangle Taper 2/3 line. A 12" trout on that rod is an absolute blast! It comes HIGHLY recommended. I’ve heard that "The Tippet" is one of Orvis’ "Western Series" rods, and is considerably stiffer than the Ultra Fine. If that’s the case, it doesn’t sound like a small stream rod. Can anyone confirm? I’ve also cast a SAGE 389 LL, and it is a very fine rod. The one I cast was made with a "strange" reel seat and grip, and it seemed a bit tip heavy, but I’ve never encountered that on any other SAGE LL. I’m sure it was a factor in the way the rod was put together. The LL is a little more "beefy" than the Orvis, and can throw a WF4F as good as a DT3F. It is a VERY nice rod as well. I think you would be happy with either one of these rods. Bob Petti Endwell, NY

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I’m thinking about buying a 2wt or 3wt fly rod for fishing small streams                                            John S. Hetrick

I use a Sage 379 LL and love it.  It handles dries beautifully, and can also throw a #12 nymph or scud.  

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I’m thinking about buying a 2wt or 3wt fly rod for fishing small streams and catching stoked troat when I’m stuck in Phoenix during the winter.  I have not cast any rods yet, but I was thinking about trying Orvis’ Ultra Fin and Tippet models.  I would also like to try some of the Sage rods.   Does anyone have any opinions on these rods or recommendations about other rods?  Any information would be helpful.  Thanks!                                                 John S. Hetrick

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I would agree that a stop by the BLUE RIBBON  is of benefit and that when in the Park you will be hard pressed not to have a good time all alone with their advice.  Now outside the Park a boat trip down a certain river … W.P. Mich

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Re: YNP guides I’ve been fishing the Park waters for 8 years. My father-in-law fished it for 40 years and was a great help, but I learned more with a guide for 1 day than you can imagine. If you fish trout waters only a few days a year the techniques are not familiar nor is the ability to read water. I have never had a shop there try to interest me in a guide! The stores can give you some idea of hatches, etc, but they will not usually send you where their guides will be fishing!! You can visit all the stores there and find that each one recommends a different fly for the same rivers. I still don’t think anything takes the place of good one on one help.

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I also have to agree with Phil.  I few years ago I went up on the madison river in Montana. We used a guide for one day and spent the rest of the trip fishing the river.  The things we learned in that one day made our trip a complete success.  If a person wants frustration, then don’t use the local resources. Bret

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Your all right about guides.  Look at what happened to the Madison and to Montana in general. The reason the Park river system isn’t in such bad shape is because the guides can’t not come and go as freely as they can else where. I may be wrong about these regulations Even today the folks at blue$$$$$$ribbon fly shop will never control their foot traffic into these delicate rivers.  These guides out of the shops only have two months to make the bucks.  Sorry If I’m too cynical, but having watched the "I’m only going to sell made in America flies"  to "send the hoardes down to Slide Inn"  come forth from the great blue $$$$$$ ribbon fly shop, I think some of these guides have cut their nose off spite their face.  Now we’ll have ten guides with two clients apeice flishing for 309 rainbows instead of 3,090/mile.  

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On my first trip to Montana, I was set up by the Firehole Ranch to fish the Yellowstone with a guide (oh, it costs extra?!…). I was not at all excited about fishing with another person, nor on the YS (thought I was already too good for that!), but listened to the advise and am glad I did. My fishing skills took a giant leap forward that day- the idea of fishing drys downstream had never seemed like a likely method ’til then- the idea of changing flies WITH PURPOSE took on a whole new meaning for me- fishing over the same fish over and over without spooking- finding likely spots on a river that BIG- I could go on…the learning experience was surprising, to say the least. I came out of there with a picture of me holding a 23" Cut, that was so close to shore, I would have walked right over him if it weren’t for my guide- sure, I never would have been that successful without the guide, but I now COULD be-  THANKS to him… I thought I was a hot-shot bad-ass trout sticker from Michigan, but once I saw how big the rivers were out there, I was simply overwhelmed. If you’re fishing there for the first time, you could certainly spend yer $200 in worse ways (like buying flies and not knowing where and how to effectively use them…). Lon C. Diehl Marysville, MI (I am embarrassed that I can’t drop the name of my guide here. He was from Last Chance, and had recently opened up a fly shop/guide service that I believe had "Last Chance" in the name- probably narrows it down to about 34 people, huh?!)

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Your all right about guides.   (stuff deleted)                        I think some of these guides have cut their nose off spite their face.  Now we’ll have ten guides with two clients apeice flishing for 309 rainbows instead of 3,090/mile.  

Are there too many guides in Montana? Are there too many fly fishermen for too few streams? Maybe so. But don’t blame the guides. They work damn dard for a living around here. If there are too many guides, perhaps the Fish & Game should stop issuing more licenses. But don’t blame an honest man for busting his ass, trying to put food on the table. Most of the guides I know are ski patrolmen and/or carpenters during the winter. Fishing guiding is good money for damned hard work. How many readers out there have any idea what it’s like to hand nail a wood shingle roof when it’s below zero, or what it’s like to finish concrete in the middle of the night, or what it’s like to pull on the oars for 85-out-of-90 12-14 hour days?  Everybody seems to think guides live the life of Reilly. I spent 20 years in Montana doing fishing guiding and construction work. And the construction work was the easier chore. —

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: Are there too many guides in Montana? Are there too many fly fishermen : for too few streams? Maybe so. But don’t blame the guides. They work : damn dard for a living around here.         I’d have to second that.  It reminds me of a lament heard         from an Idaho guide (we regularly use guides to learn about         new places).  While floating down some river, he for some         reason got to talking about the stress in his life.  My reaction         was something like the one Sandy painted:  Stress?  I certainly         know that guides work long hours, dawn ’til dusk, then it’s fix         the boat, mend the tackle, and tie some flies.  But stress? Sure         you do!         Turns out, though, that it’s true, at least for him.  Seems         that we sports have this idea that if we pay $200/day for a         guide we ought to catch some fish.  Some can, some can’t.         Think about places like the Railroad Ranch, where the fish         have seen it all.  Float an emerger by them and the most         common trout reaction is probably something like, "Hmmmmmmm,         handsome tie," unless you get it *just right*.         Until the sport has caught the first fish or two, life is         stressful.  We tend to be pretty philosophical about things,         having had great days and horrible days, and we tip just the         same for both.  But I have a feeling that this may not be a         universal behavior. Hewlett-Packard Laboratories                     Phone: (970) 229-3531 Research Grants Program                            FAX: (970) 229-6198 3404 East Harmony Road Fort Collins, CO 80525-9599

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I have a short list of about a dozen fishing books (mostly fly fishing) these are out-of-print or first edition copies.  If you collect books on fishing, or just love to read about it (you probably do if you are on this list)  you might enjoy my occasional lists of sporting books. Thank you for reading. David Holloway

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Iam looking for a copy of "the compleat angler"can you help. nav9200

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