Question:

Think caddis flies in June, Frank.  Green Rock Worm, tan LaFontaine caddis emerger, throw in a few small PTs (they always work) and a few Goddard Caddis, and voila, you’re there. Dave Well, I’ll start tying now if I can find my vise.  Now, wasn’t that on top of the truck?

What girls did you "visit" while in Coburn? Sounds like you were in a real hurry to get out of town. — TL, Tim

Response:

I forgot to add: I took a ful Reid (without water).  My rock hopping days are surely limited. My feet went out from underneath me like I was on an icy slope.  Smashed by back up pretty good (or is that pretty bad?).  The same shit I suffered through a few months back.  If I bend over, I have trouble getting back up.  (No smart-ass remarks either!) d;o)

Response:

I forgot to add: I took a ful Reid (without water).  My rock hopping days are surely limited. My feet went out from underneath me like I was on an icy slope.  Smashed by back up pretty good (or is that pretty bad?).  The same shit I suffered through a few months back.  If I bend over, I have trouble getting back up.  (No smart-ass remarks either!) d;o)

hey, take care Louie, you’ve got an important fishing date coming up. Hey Dave, if it hurts when you bend, don’t bend.  You have to come and see us soon.  I’m practicing on my new stove.   This is the Jag of all Jags.   The Thanksgiving turkey, the meat pies will all be waiting for you. Did I mention the pumpkin pie? Love Suzie XOXOXO

Response:

…   The Thanksgiving turkey, …

Canadian Thanksgiving makes WAY more sense than the American version. The second Monday of October is a great time to have a real fall harvest fest. The end of November sucks, and besides it’s too close to Xmas. — Ken Fortenberry- left in disgust at the start of the 4th quarter

Response:

Suzie Homemaker writes: he Thanksgiving turkey, the meat pies will all be waiting for you. Did I mention the pumpkin pie? Love Suzie XOXOXO

You’re too much, Jo.  Is it any wonder Petah loves you so.  My Jo says hi.  See you in a week.  Pumpkin pie, eh? Dave

Response:

Suzie Homemaker writes: he Thanksgiving turkey, the meat pies will all be waiting for you. Did I mention the pumpkin pie? Love Suzie XOXOXO You’re too much, Jo.  Is it any wonder Petah loves you so.  My Jo says hi.  See you in a week.  Pumpkin pie, eh? Dave

Can’t wait to see you both on the 13th. Love Suzie

Response:

 Smashed my back up pretty good (or is that pretty bad?).

Enjoyed your TR but sorry to hear about your bad luck. You reminded me that some years ago, an announcer at a Penn State football game announced that a player who had been hurt, and was coming off the field, was "limping pretty good."  I wondered if that was the opposite of "limping pretty bad," or if it meant he was doing it in an accomplished and artistic manner. Hope you get well soon. vince

Response:

Vince Norris writes: You reminded me that some years ago, an announcer at a Penn State football game announced that a player who had been hurt, and was coming off the field, was "limping pretty good."  I wondered if that was the opposite of "limping pretty bad," or if it meant he was doing it in an accomplished and artistic manner. Hope you get well soon. vince

Fortunately I wasn’t hurt badly.  A friend (in his early 70s) saw it, and thought I had to be hurt bad (good?), so he got on his rather sophisticated radio and called his son fishing downriver at Harbeck Pool.  His son started back to help in the "rescue", but when my friend saw me up and about, he called and told the son I was ok.  Nice to know someone was watching out for me. Dave

Response:

ok.  Nice to know someone was watching out for me. Dave

Hey, I worry about you big guy.  With all the luck you’ve had, a wonderful wife, trips to Lakewood left, right and center, that land yacht of yours, I figure your lucks gotta run out sometime. Good report.  I can’t wait to get up there next year.  Ya gotta give me an idear as to what those flies were and if you tinks dayums would work in June. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

Response:

Frank Reid writes: Ya gotta give me an idear as to what those flies were and if you tinks dayums would work in June.

Think caddis flies in June, Frank.  Green Rock Worm, tan LaFontaine caddis emerger, throw in a few small PTs (they always work) and a few Goddard Caddis, and voila, you’re there.   Dave

Response:

Think caddis flies in June, Frank.  Green Rock Worm, tan LaFontaine caddis emerger, throw in a few small PTs (they always work) and a few Goddard Caddis, and voila, you’re there. Dave

Well, I’ll start tying now if I can find my vise.  Now, wasn’t that on top of the truck? — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

Response:

The boat was waiting for us when we arrived at South Arm.  It is always amusing to see Henry jump from the car, run down to the dock and get aboard Lakewood’s boat.  (Lakewood owns the boat, so the apotrophe is correct)   After a quick lunch, I headed to the dam.  No one in sight.  I picked one of the good spots and started with Bruiser’s #20 PT, tied on a scudd hook.  Second cast and I had a decent brookie, dressed to the nines in her fall colors.  A few casts later, another brookie.  It went on like this until I lost the fly. %, I only had one.  Fortunately I brought along the fly box that Bruiser gave me at the SJ clave two years ago.  It was filled with little size 20 – 24 jewels.  I selected something similar, and it was *better*.  What an outstanding afternoon.  The catch of brookies to salmon was about 5 to 1.  I can remember when it was 10 to 1 salmon to brookies.  And it wasn’t that long ago.  C & R works (sorry Timbo) On Monday morning I went to Pond in the River – not much happening with the standard stuff.  However, an old stand-by, the Jail Bird tied on a size 20 dry fly hook brought two very nice brook trout from the wing dam pool.  That fly has never failed me!  Very simple tie, too.  After a sumptuous lunch, I was a bit tired, so I napped until mid-afternoon and then hit the dam.   As before, Bruiser’s tiny SJ flies did their magic.  I dredged Zimbo’s Run and landed several nice (+14 inch) brookies, as well as some  salmon about the same size.  The fish looked to be in remarkable condition, especially the brookies. Only a couple of salmon that I caught (the entire week) had sores on their jaws from being hooked.  There was a team of biologists surveying the river for the power company.  I had a conversation with them at dinner and asked about the mortality of C&R.  Although they didn’t give me a percentage, their feelings were that the brookies are very strong and their mortality is very, very low, whereas the salmon, dumber and not as strong, still have a low mortality.  With the number of fish I caught that looked healthy, I’d say they were spot on in their estimation. Tuesday was a repeat of Monday, with the exception of a 19 inch brookie taken on one of Bruisers #20 nymphs.  I also worked some rising salmon.  There was a hatch on, and I cast a tiny little black fly.  In general, they were small fish – in the 8 to 12 inch range, and no brookies.  So, I switched back to the little nymphs and continued to have luck at any spot at the dam.  Again, the brookies were ferocious with Bruiser’s flies. Wednesday, Thursday and Friday were the same, except Friday it rained harder than it did at Henry’s Fork (if that is possible).  We got about 4 inches of water in less than 24 hours.  Fishing remained fairly good, however, and I finally got a chance to wear my SST jacket.  Kept me dry and warm.  Sleeping in one of Lakewood’s cabins is always a treat, but when it is cold and raining, it is extra sweet.   The season ends on Tuesday.  I’ve been home three hours and I’m ready to go back.  It is gonna be a long winter……. Dave

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Question:

"Peter Duniho"  wrote Look at the crew count.  Even with a small passenger list, a 737 is probably not going to take off with just one flight attendant.  Every flight I’ve been on, on a plane that size, they’ve had at least two flight attendants, just because the first class passengers want one all to themselves.

The number of seats (not passengers) determines the minimium required Flight Attendants.  One FA for each 50 seats or portion thereof. Bob

Response:

The number of seats (not passengers) determines the minimium required Flight Attendants.  One FA for each 50 seats or portion thereof.

The smallest (least number of seats) airplane the mainline United flies is the a 737 with a configuration of 104 passegner seats.   Three flight attendents are therefore assigned. The Dornier 328 is the smallest jet used by the United Express carriers (at about 32 seats, quite an intersting plane by the way).  The propstreams are the smallest at about 29 seats (perhaps one of my least favorite airlinesr).

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The number of seats (not passengers) determines the minimium required Flight Attendants.  One FA for each 50 seats or portion thereof.

Thank you.  My point exactly.

Response:

Several years back, we and another pilot couple were camped on the beach next to a runway on a tiny little island in the Bahamas.  No services, small fishing village, a couple of "yacht club" places which served food to boaters passing through. What island was this?

Farmer’s Cay. Very nice but haven’t been back since a hurricane went through. Sydney

Response:

Definitely doesn’t sound like a 737/DC-9 or larger. Mighta been a bad day.   Been on one international flight (Finnair) where coincidentally there were more cabin staff than pax.  It was great! That accounts for the 19 passengers, but United doesn’t fly anything that only has 3 crewmembers (remember to count the flight attendents).

Quite right – I missed that Even a 737 gets two pilots and (I’m pretty sure) three flight attendents.

Yeah – as someone pointed out, the ratio is one per 50 seats – in the US and most other places, I gather.   Here in Oz it’s presently 1 per 35, but the airlines are starting to agitate to get it increased to 1 to 50 while the FAs are resisting (naturally), pointing out that elderly and kids require considerably more attention than healthy adults, etc, etc.. IMO in an accident the more trained FAs available the better!

Response:

The first FA is required at 20 seats, that’s why all those Metroliners have 19 seats. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The number of seats (not passengers) determines the minimium required Flight Attendants.  One FA for each 50 seats or portion thereof. Thank you.  My point exactly.

Response:

the better!

It certainly increases the odds of not getting slam-clickers on a RON. However, in a serious situation, some well-trained F/As freak out in a panic and are useless. Until they experience a real emergency, they are untested and an unknown quantity. D.

Response:

the better! It certainly increases the odds of not getting slam-clickers on a RON.

However, in a serious situation, some well-trained F/As freak out in a panic and are useless. Until they experience a real emergency, they are untested and an unknown quantity.

True – but at least they have had the training.

Response:

the better! It certainly increases the odds of not getting slam-clickers on a RON. However, in a serious situation, some well-trained F/As freak out in a panic and are useless. Until they experience a real emergency, they are untested and an unknown quantity.

The same can be said about some pilots.

Response:

the better! It certainly increases the odds of not getting slam-clickers on a RON. However, in a serious situation, some well-trained F/As freak out in a panic and are useless. Until they experience a real emergency, they are untested and an unknown quantity. D.

Same with captains, Captain!

Response:

It certainly increases the odds of not getting slam-clickers on a RON. However, in a serious situation, some well-trained F/As freak out in a  panic and are useless. Until they experience a real emergency, they are untested and an unknown quantity. Same with captains, Captain!

Same with any other member of the flight crew (Cap’t FO FE). Until the chips are down and the fit hits the shan we’re all untested unknown quantities. Cheers, Sydney

Response:

Definitely doesn’t sound like a 737/DC-9 or larger. Mighta been a bad day.   Been on one international flight (Finnair) where coincidentally there were more cabin staff than pax.  It was great!

That accounts for the 19 passengers, but United doesn’t fly anything that only has 3 crewmembers (remember to count the flight attendents). Even a 737 gets two pilots and (I’m pretty sure) three flight attendents.

Response:

Several years back, we and another pilot couple were camped on the beach next to a runway on a tiny little island in the Bahamas.  No services, small fishing village, a couple of "yacht club" places which served food to boaters passing through.

What island was this?

Response:

Mighta been a bad day.   Been on one international flight (Finnair) where coincidentally there were more cabin staff than pax.

Look at the crew count.  Even with a small passenger list, a 737 is probably not going to take off with just one flight attendant.  Every flight I’ve been on, on a plane that size, they’ve had at least two flight attendants, just because the first class passengers want one all to themselves. Pete

Response:

To my knowledge, only mainline United uses the United callsign. Commuter turboprops use the callsigns assigned to their company’s certificate. You are, of course, correct (AFAIK) about the callsign.  I think though, that the main point was identifying the type of plane as the kind typically used for commuter flights.  Three crew and 19 passengers does seem to indicate some sort of smaller aircraft, whether it’s a turboprop, Jetstream, or what have you. Definitely doesn’t sound like a 737/DC-9 or larger.

Mighta been a bad day.   Been on one international flight (Finnair) where coincidentally there were more cabin staff than pax.  It was great!

Response:

I’d imagine that for the typical airline customer, having to make an early landing due to an engine failure would be a pretty traumatic event.  Not the sort of thing that would go unremarked.

I don’t know. Several years back, we and another pilot couple were camped on the beach next to a runway on a tiny little island in the Bahamas.  No services, small fishing village, a couple of "yacht club" places which served food to boaters passing through. The next morning, several trucks pulled up and a bunch of typical middle-aged well-to-do people with lots o’ luggage got out.  We started chatting.  Seems they were there buying property with the notion of developing a resort, and were awaiting a charter flight out.  They seemed like typical, risk-averse, average airline customers. Their mount arrived, and I do mean "arrived".  A C310.  Got blown off the rwy centerline into the shrubby trees on short final, landed with vegetation dangling from the landing gear and the L main fuel tank (tip tank) trailing fuel through a gap around the smashed nav lights. The captain, a distinguished-looking silver haired gentleman, got out and surveyed the shrubbery.  Next thing I knew, the pax were cheerfully loading up their luggage and climbing aboard.  The fact that their pilot had just hit a tree, that the plane was streaming fuel from one of its main tanks, that the undercarriage may have been damaged, might not retract, and once retracted might not extend, meant nothing to them. Pilot was willing to fly, must be safe, they were rarin’ to go. And go they did, using every inch of runway (it was pretty short for a C310).  Between the luggage and the 6 of ‘em I doubt they were under gross.  Maybe over.  Godspeed! I think most people’s risk assessment is so skewed that they’re very fearful if the plane is delayed while a gauge or a light is repaired, but loss or damage to big important parts like engines and main fuel tanks might not bother them much more. Cheers, Sydney

Response:

In article 1:25 PM PDT, as I was over Malibu monitoring SoCal frequency heard United fight ask to return to LAX. I suspect this was a computer plane, probably turbo prop, To my knowledge, only mainline United uses the United callsign. Commuter turboprops use the callsigns assigned to their company’s certificate.

Yep.  I hadn’t thought of that before.  I was too busy thinking about shoes…or fish. In LA, had it been a United code share commuter, the callsign would more likely have been SkyWest, unless Mesa is still in the area, in which case it would have been Air Shuttle.  If the callsign was United, then it really was United.

Response:

To my knowledge, only mainline United uses the United callsign. Commuter turboprops use the callsigns assigned to their company’s certificate.

You are, of course, correct (AFAIK) about the callsign.  I think though, that the main point was identifying the type of plane as the kind typically used for commuter flights.  Three crew and 19 passengers does seem to indicate some sort of smaller aircraft, whether it’s a turboprop, Jetstream, or what have you. Definitely doesn’t sound like a 737/DC-9 or larger. Pete

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I was on a United 737 that had an engine quit.  Total non-event.  Returned to O’Hare and got on another flight.  Guess that’s why they have two engines.  Media doesn’t care unless there is blood and guts.

Many years ago I was on a TWA 747 that lost an engine on climb-out from Logan, with a loud bang. We turned back and landed with the trucks chasing us, but we made a normal egress. Nothing in the press. It seemed to me at the time that they idled the other three engines for a while (so we were, basically, gliding over Boston Harbor). I may have been mistaken, being busy comforting the children. Is that part of the attempted restart procedure? (aftermath: TWA found another 747 at JFK and flew it up to BOS, opened a door to let the meals in, and the escape chute fell out. Oh, damn, now we can’t use that door, where are we going to find a 747 door this time of night? Oh look, there’s another one over there with a bad engine but a perfectly good door… eventually the 6pm flight left at 2am but kudos to TWA; they put a lot of effort into not canceling the flight).

Response:

1:25 PM PDT, as I was over Malibu monitoring SoCal frequency heard United fight ask to return to LAX. I suspect this was a computer plane, probably turbo prop,

To my knowledge, only mainline United uses the United callsign. Commuter turboprops use the callsigns assigned to their company’s certificate. D.

Response:

While en route Fullerton to Oxnard today about 1:25 PM PDT, as I was over Malibu monitoring SoCal frequency heard United fight ask to return to LAX. Controller asked if they were declaring an emergency and reply was "yes, lost an engine."  Controller then asked how many soles on board, reply "19 with three crew." I suspect this was a computer plane, probably turbo prop, and LAX was probably 95-100 degrees at the time.  I had to change frequencies so never heard end result.  Nothing on news or on Internet that I can find.  Anyone know anything about it?  Perhaps this happens more often then we ever hear about… Scott

I was on a United 737 that had an engine quit.  Total non-event.  Returned to O’Hare and got on another flight.  Guess that’s why they have two engines.  Media doesn’t care unless there is blood and guts.

Response:

[...] Controller then asked how many soles on board, reply "19 with three crew." Well, the one-armed man may still be missing, but at least we’ve found the one-legged man.

Hah! Thanks for that. Now I can sleep! — Jeff Cook http://www.cookstudios.com Video Editing, Avid Training & Web Design Based in Washington DC

Response:

Sorry for not actually knowing anything pertinent to your comments.  :)  I doubt that an engine failure on a commercial flight happens a lot more than we hear about, since even if the news doesn’t pick up on it right away, almost always one of the passengers would eventually get around to saying something. I’d imagine that for the typical airline customer, having to make an early landing due to an engine failure would be a pretty traumatic event.  Not the sort of thing that would go unremarked.

Incidents might happen more than we think, although I also think that engine failures are rather rare. I know of one occasion where a colleague of mine was on board, the way he described the flight was a bird-strike in one of the engines, followed by a shutdown of that engine and a return to the airport. This never made it into the news. A friend of mine once, as a co-pilot, aborted a takeoff due to an engine problem, I did not read anything in the news about it either. And why would we, in these cases the crew apparently handled the situation properly, and actually nothing important happened. At the following link you can find incident descriptions involving Dutch aircraft, engine failures seem to be quite rare, but a return to the airport from where they came seems to happen every now and then: http://www.minvenw.nl/ivw/divisieluchtvaart/nla/veilig_mil/htm/incide… (Although the page is in Dutch, most of the actual incident descriptions are in English) Best regards, Peter

Response:

[...] Controller then asked how many soles on board, reply "19 with three crew."

Well, the one-armed man may still be missing, but at least we’ve found the one-legged man. I suspect this was a computer plane, probably turbo prop, and LAX was probably 95-100 degrees at the time.

As far as I know, all of United’s airplanes are real.  Not a single computer plane among the bunch. Sorry for not actually knowing anything pertinent to your comments.  :)  I doubt that an engine failure on a commercial flight happens a lot more than we hear about, since even if the news doesn’t pick up on it right away, almost always one of the passengers would eventually get around to saying something. I’d imagine that for the typical airline customer, having to make an early landing due to an engine failure would be a pretty traumatic event.  Not the sort of thing that would go unremarked. Pete

Response:

While en route Fullerton to Oxnard today about 1:25 PM PDT, as I was over Malibu monitoring SoCal frequency heard United fight ask to return to LAX. Controller asked if they were declaring an emergency and reply was "yes, lost an engine."  Controller then asked how many soles on board, reply "19 with three crew." I suspect this was a computer plane, probably turbo prop, and LAX was probably 95-100 degrees at the time.  I had to change frequencies so never heard end result.  Nothing on news or on Internet that I can find.  Anyone know anything about it?  Perhaps this happens more often then we ever hear about… Scott

Response:

Question:

I find that after about six dozen fish that they chew about half the head off the fly. I would like it to be durable enough to last for a full morning’s fishing.

That’s easy, go up to Dodge City and fish with Wayne Knight – the fly will last a year or more<g. — Charlie…

Response:

Willi wonders: Does any one here fish these patterns? I have tied a handful up, primarily the green(summer season) and orange(later evening) colors to see if they had special attractive characteristics for the stated periods of use. I can’t say that I fished them with top confidence, as I share your suspicion of general color theories. Anyway, they caught some fish, but didn’t knock my socks off.                               Tom Littleton

The waters he fished them on are pretty large turbulent waters. I don’t know what the exact area is like where he tested them but it is a large river. There areas of my local waters where I was going to try them are the deeper runs and the pocket water stretches. I’ll try to fish them with SOME confidence. Last fall I was in central/western Wyoming and had a couple days to fish. I stopped in a shop for some information. Since it was fall, the shop owner hadn’t had much business and seemed glad to have someone to talk to. We talked about quite a few things and he gave me some information that, I felt he wouldn’t normally give. It being fall in the Rockies, hatches were limited to sporadic caddis and BWO’s in about a size 20. The olives, he said, brought up the good fish. I asked him what he used and he showed me a large stimulator type fly that was very bright and flashy. The fly was tied on a number 14 stimulator hook which translated into a fly about the size of a normal size 10. I looked at him with some skepticism but bought a couple and went out. The section of river he sent me to carried alot of water even during the low flows typical in the Fall. The area was a series of deep strong runs, filled with large boulders.  I caught a few fish in the morning, then about 11 o’clock the Olives started popping up. I saw occasional rises and switched to a typical Olive imitation tied in a size eighteen. I caught a couple of smaller Browns on the current edges and continued to see an occasional surface feeding trout. The fish that were rising seemed to be smaller fish. I switched over to the fly that the shop owner recommended and I caught a number of sizable fish that came up off the bottom is the heavy current. My guess is that the better trout were feeding on the active and emerging nymphs but weren’t willing to come to the surface through the strong current for such a small fly. The larger attractor pattern, made the trip worthwhile. This isn’t a perfect example of his approach but it is the type of situation where a fly having certain exaggerated visual cues might work well. Willi

Response:

Willi wonders: Does any one here fish these patterns?

I have tied a handful up, primarily the green(summer season) and orange(later evening) colors to see if they had special attractive characteristics for the stated periods of use. I can’t say that I fished them with top confidence, as I share your suspicion of general color theories. Anyway, they caught some fish, but didn’t knock my socks off.                               Tom Littleton

Response:

with a series of flies designed by Gary LaFontaine that he calls his Double Wing series.

I have not experimented with the Double Wing series, but I have been using the Airheadfor several years now with great success, but unlike Gary, do not find it very durable. When I use it on the bedding bluegills I find that after about six dozen fish that they chew about half the head off the fly. I would like it to be durable enough to last for a full morning’s fishing. Big Dale

Response:

Willi, Did you every get the email I sent to you (aka "Rusty Hook")?  Anyway, if you didn’t, here it is again: I’ll probably head up to the Yellowstone area for my vacation, preferably during the clave, but it won’t be due to poor fishing conditions around here. I’ll just be ready for something different by August.

Come on by Stanley this summer, Willi, and we’ll fish for wild cutthroats in places so beautiful they’ll make you eyes bleed. I’ll warn you, though. You’ll have to exert yourself to get there. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Each year I come up with a few things that I’m interested in checking out streamside. This year, I’m looking to get a feel for streamer fishing, fishing a "cast" of wets and I’m thinking about experimenting with a series of flies designed by Gary LaFontaine that he calls his Double Wing series. Although I’m not much of a believer of a "right" fly or the importance of color overall, this series of flies is based on studies done by him using underwater divers to record the reactions of trout to certain colors and aspects of flies. The Double Wing series was a result of this study in terms of the "ideal" attractor pattern. He recommends certain color combinations for different light situations. Although Brooks, if I remember right, did some underwater observations, as far as I know, LaFontaine was the only person to study, from an underwater prospective and in a systematic manner, the reactions of trout to a number of variables of a fly’s construction. Does any one here fish these patterns? Any comments? Willi

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Question:

Hi,  whats a good fly for stocked rainbow trout in a small lake about 15 feet deep? I’d appreciate any info I can get.  Thanx.

Response:

Where would i find some information on this fly at? do you have a picture of it?  Thanx.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi,  whats a good fly for stocked rainbow trout in a small lake about 15 feet deep? I’d appreciate any info I can get.  Thanx. Niblet Fly ought to do it…

Response:

Hi,  whats a good fly for stocked rainbow trout in a small lake about 15 feet deep? I’d appreciate any info I can get.  Thanx.

Niblet Fly ought to do it…

Response:

are you fishing the surface or subsurface, I like to use floatant on hares ear nymphs and strip it in the surface film  or use beadheads subsurface. Good dry’s are ones that can be skimmed over the surface without sinking or twisting the line, caddis drys are good as are renagades. Bushy wulffs are great for sight and for trout that will pounce on whatever they see. Wolly buggers are a favorite for many, I would use small patterns w/ black being a common color. Many use a bushy dry fly w/ a small nymph dropper usually a midge larva or or smalll beadhead 16-20.  this can be real fun the fish may be attracted by the dry but hit the dropper, just use a foot or two of 5 or 6x tippet and thie it directly to the bend of the bushy dry patterns hook, just make sure you check for breaking stregnth. The dry is a strike indicator for the nymph but this will tell you just how active the fish are toward big drys. If you get no hits on the dry change it if none on the nymph change that it can take out some of the problem solving on what they want because lets face it stockers can be fussy too.  : ]        

Response:

Niblet Fly ought to do it…

ROFLOL! bc.

Response:

aka the Golden Terrestrial. Steve Zimmerman

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi,  whats a good fly for stocked rainbow trout in a small lake about 15 feet deep? I’d appreciate any info I can get.  Thanx. Niblet Fly ought to do it…

Response:

For your question of what type of fly to use ( stocked trout ), I have  had the best luck using a bead head caddis    -**** Posted from RemarQ, http://www.remarq.com/?a ****-  Search and Read Usenet Discussions in your Browser – FREE –

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Question:

Hi there I am a 34yo m Aussie Flyfisher looking to find a few E-Mail mates to chat about flyfishing in there part of the world (wherever that may be) I am also an avid collector of Antique Fly Fishing Books so if anyone would like to See Ya Later Glynn Wulff

Howdy Glynn, There are two gents (I being one) that can help you out with some books here at ROFF. Ernie Harrison, who is a frequent poster here, is selling his collection off book by book. You will need to contact him for his list. I am a used, rare, and antiquarian dealer. My specialty categories are Sporting and Natural History. You can view my offerings at www.mercury.net/~wgwinter There will be some major remodelling (if i can get off my duff) going on there shortly to update the listings. Tight lines, Walt

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says… Oh, by the way Walt; please box up and send us all of your World War One and Two unit histories for the Museum.  We also could use a set of Pershing’s memoirs with his signature. Wayne To fish is human…to release divine.

Hell Wayne, why don’t we throw in the Korean & Vietnam units’ whilst were at it? Jeez, are you looking for "toughies" or what? btw, message received…. Walt

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Hi there I am a 34yo m Aussie Flyfisher looking to find a few E-Mail mates to chat about flyfishing in there part of the world (wherever that may be) I am also an avid collector of Antique Fly Fishing Books so if anyone would like to See Ya Later Glynn Wulff

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Hi there I am a 34yo m Aussie Flyfisher looking to find a few E-Mail mates to chat about flyfishing in there part of the world (wherever that may be) I am also an avid collector of Antique Fly Fishing Books so if anyone would like to See Ya Later Glynn Wulff

        well, glynn (hey, billy, did you ever spend any time down under about 1964?  that name is suspiciously welsh…), you sure have found the right place.  check our posts for walt winter.  and get ready to communicate. wayno, self-appointed chairman of the roff welcoming committee.

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Oh, by the way Walt; please box up and send us all of your World War One and Two unit histories for the Museum.  We also could use a set of Pershing’s memoirs with his signature. Wayne To fish is human…to release divine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi there I am a 34yo m Aussie Flyfisher looking to find a few E-Mail mates to chat about flyfishing in there part of the world (wherever that may be) I am also an avid collector of Antique Fly Fishing Books so if anyone would like to See Ya Later Glynn Wulff Howdy Glynn, There are two gents (I being one) that can help you out with some books here at ROFF. Ernie Harrison, who is a frequent poster here, is selling his collection off book by book. You will need to contact him for his list. I am a used, rare, and antiquarian dealer. My specialty categories are Sporting and Natural History. You can view my offerings at www.mercury.net/~wgwinter There will be some major remodelling (if i can get off my duff) going on there shortly to update the listings. Tight lines, Walt

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Question:

I head into the hospital for ACL reconstruction of my left knee this morning and am out of business for the next 5 to 6 months.

I had my left knee done last October, the right one done in December and was on the water again in April. Had the lakes been open, I might have been fishing even sooner – the Doc told me a kickboat would be excellent  therapy. In any case,  good luck with the surgery. Regards, Dennis Smith Loveland, CO Dennis Smith Loveland, CO

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Well it is time to hang up my fly rod for the year.  I head into the hospital for ACL reconstruction of my left knee this morning and am out of business for the next 5 to 6 months. Mike

 Mike, Here’s wishing you a successful visit to the hospital, and get over it quickly. Good luck. Regards from Wales. — Bill

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Well it is time to hang up my fly rod for the year.  I head into the hospital for ACL reconstruction of my left knee this morning and am out of business for the next 5 to 6 months. Mike

– Mike, Good luck with your surgery and we’ll be sure to save some fish fer ya… –Walt

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Well it is time to hang up my fly rod for the year.  I head into the hospital for ACL reconstruction of my left knee this morning and am out of business for the next 5 to 6 months.  All of you flyfishing nuts will have to make sure and post your adventures to the newsgroup so that I can at least read about flyfishing. All was not lost for the year, I did get the opportunity to catch a 20 pound Rainbow Trout two weeks ago.  Definetly the highlight of my fishing life. Unfortunately, August was the wrong month to get the Gerrard’s in Kootenay Lake on a fly rod so will have to go back in April or May and attempt to get one. Have fun and enjoy the rest of your Summer! Mike

Mike: Sorry to hear about the knee problems. What kind of reconstruction are you having?  I had patellar graft reconstruction on my left knee 6 years ago and have been *extremely* happy with the result. You might even find that you could still get some fishing in this season.  By three months post-op, I was doing a lot of the things I wanted to, just being careful. Best of luck to you.  It is amazing what they can do to repair things these days. Bob

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Well it is time to hang up my fly rod for the year.  I head into the hospital for ACL reconstruction of my left knee this morning and am out of business for the next 5 to 6 months.  All of you flyfishing nuts will have to make sure and post your adventures to the newsgroup so that I can at least read about flyfishing.   All was not lost for the year, I did get the opportunity to catch a 20 pound Rainbow Trout two weeks ago.  Definetly the highlight of my fishing life. Unfortunately, August was the wrong month to get the Gerrard’s in Kootenay Lake on a fly rod so will have to go back in April or May and attempt to get one. Have fun and enjoy the rest of your Summer! Mike

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Question:

Planning a mid October trip and havent’t yet decided between: A) Green River in Utah B) San Juan in New Mexico The trip would be approximately 1 week with two other guys. We are just not sure based upon the weather and fishing conditions. Our budget precludes the possiblility of hiring guides. We are best described as "intermediate"; I guess. Need to get tickets very soon. Appreciate any informed advice. Thanks in advance!

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Planning a mid October trip and havent’t yet decided between: A) Green River in Utah B) San Juan in New Mexico The trip would be approximately 1 week with two other guys. We are just not sure based upon the weather and fishing conditions. Our budget precludes the possiblility of hiring guides. We are best described as "intermediate"; I guess. Need to get tickets very soon. Appreciate any informed advice. Thanks in advance!

Hiya Jerry, I know its way off what you’re talking about … but – ever thought of fishing in southern Africa?. We’ve got probably the strongest, fastest, freshwater fish on earth – the tiger fish – as well as some outstanding saltwater sport. Trey Combs thought Mozambique was real special in his book Bluewater Fly Fishing. Our fully-inclusive Orvis-Endorsed expeditions start from around $3200 for an eight night tour: flights, guides, accommodation, boats, fuel, taxes – the whole thing except for booze. You can call me Toll-Free in Johannesburg on 888 2461750 or e-mail to: details. Tight lines Mark

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Question:

As with anything having to do with this sport, get the best you can afford. Metz, Spencer, and a half-dozen other growers often sell half capes for about the same price as the next grade down. Unless you are tying up to professional prodution a good #2 grade half will last through several seasons. Everyone resents the initial outlay of $$$ for a good cape, but the payoff is you don’t purchase them very often. Cabela’s and other supply houses also sell decent genetic necks that are quite useful, if limited in size and color.

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how bout finding some fishin’ buddies to split some necks with….that how I started out. some times stores will sell you split necks, if you take classes from them…they can always use the other half in class or for production tying. i agree with the other respondent, however, buy the best you can..you’ll be disappointed with the #3’s for drys size 14 and smaller. happy tying,….and DON"T GIVE UP!! there aren’t enuff of us out there! #:)#  Larry Medina

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Hoffman Super Saddle. Tons of real long feathers 10 down to 18 or so. Can tie two or three flies per feather.

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I need some new hackle, I’m getting better at tieing, and the hackle from the kit sucks.  I would like to hear some opinions on which Hackle to buy.   I am leaning towards Metz grade #3 in Grizzly from Orvis (29 bucks), anyone know of a better deal let me know.  Thanks. Scott

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I thought that a grade three hackle would be better for tying wet flies than dry, but I just read an article that said that they rate the hackle by the count of usable feathers, the main size, and length. I thought that a grade 3 hackle would be softer hackle than a grade 1 or 2 is this true or are there just more usable feathers on a grade 1. Can you tye as good a dry with a grade 3 hackle as you could with grade 1.  I am simply a begginer I dont know grade 3 hackles are softer by expierience I just thought that was how it was THANKS! The factors that determine a hackle grade are numerous.  A neck or saddle are graded on the number of usable hackles, length of hackle, color, webbiness, stem diameter and uniformity of barbule lengtht. Now the problem arises when you compare hackles from two different companies.  A #2 Hoffman  may be better than a #1Metz metz.  Will a #3 be "softer"?  Well yes it may have a little, or a lot, more web depending on the company.  A #3 Hoffman will tie a good dry fly, but some of the other companies it may not.   The best thing to do is to inspect it carefully before you buy it.  Generally it can be said that you will get what you pay for. About 7 years ago I bought my first Hoffman saddle and now I am hooked.  I have currently 5 Hoffman saddles and 3 necks.  They are the only ones I use for my dries.  I know they are kinda expensive and I have a tight budget, but they are worth it.  There is nothing more frustrating to me than trying to tie a good fly with a shitty feather.   Good Luck, Marty

Hi Marty, I agree. Hoffman is only company that has saddle hackle that is small and stiff for trout dries. In the old days, we always used rooster saddles for wets and rooster necks for dries. Henry Hoffman changed that. Metz saddles are better for wet flies as they don’t seem to be stiff enough for dries. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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  <big snip   Then Metz started to become available and Henry started to bring over some of his first "super grizzly".  This is one area where materials have only gotten better.

  Amen to that. Several months ago a guy came into the local shop carrying grampa’s tying kit. Grampa must have been a serious tyer, the kit had a lot of really nice stuff (jungle cock cape, etc), the tools and thread were all top quality from that era. The dry fly hackles were a different story altogether; the individual feathers were all tapered, the stems were thick (compared to modern hackle), and none of the feathers would tie smaller than about sz 10. Charlie

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writes: Amen to that. Several months ago a guy came into the local shop carrying grampa’s tying kit. Grampa must have been a serious tyer, the kit had a lot of really nice stuff (jungle cock cape, etc), the tools and thread were all top quality from that era. The dry fly hackles were a different story altogether; the individual feathers were all tapered, the stems were thick (compared to modern hackle), and none of the feathers would tie smaller than about sz 10.

I’m not yet as old as grandpa, but a size 16 would be the smallest you could find on a neck, they would be less than an inch long, and you would need to use at 3 or 4 feathers to tie one fly.  Thought I’d died and gone to heaven when I got my first Metz #2 brown neck.  I still have it but there are no feathers left smaller than #10.                                                         Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

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writes:    Hi! I thought that a grade three hackle would be better for tying wet flies than dry, but I just read an article that said that they rate the hackle by the count of usable feathers, the main size, and length. I thought that a grade 3 hackle would be softer hackle than a grade 1 or 2 is this true or are there just more usable feathers on a grade 1. Can you tye as good a dry with a grade 3 hackle as you could with grade 1.  I am simply a begginer I dont know grade 3 hackles are softer by expierience I just thought that was how it was THANKS!

Hi Dolph, As others have said here, none of the growers grade on the same standards.  But within a particular brand, there is a big difference between a #1 and a #3. Historically (this is all subject to change), the #1 necks had higher feather counts, smaller sizes, less webbing, longer length feathers (more useable feather), more flexible stems,  rounder stems, and denser barb counts on the feather (more barbs per inch).  Usually the biggest difference between 1 and 2’s is the quantity of small sizes – more of the 20 through 24 sizes on the #1’s.  Often the #1’s don’t have useable size 10 or 12 feathers because the stems are too thick.  #3 necks often have more webbing than 1’s or 2’s but not always.  Most often the biggest difference between 2’s and 3’s is that the stems on the 3’s are stiffer, and sometimes oblong instead of round.  This makes them very tough to wind. The grading system is hardly perfect and you can often look through a batch of #2’s and find some that are as good as the #1’s and #’3s that are as good as 2’s.   Nothing compares to the Hoffman’s necks.  Their #2’s are comparable to just about anyone elses #1’s.  The saddles make great dry fly tying feathers but primarily have only 2 sizes on them.  The necks have a wide assortment of sizes.  Haven’t seen any saddles that will compare with the Hoffman’s for dry flys. For wet flies I still use hen neck feathers.  They are shorter and have more rounded tips.  These are always webby and fold easily for that swept back look on wets.  Used to be able to find them easily and they were cheap.  Haven’t seen many in recent years.  Get them if you can find them, they are a far better choice for wet flies than rooster necks. We are spoiled today with the necks available.  I remember when indian capes were all that you could get.  I would take a trip over to Tigard, OR once in a while just to paw through Kaufmann’s capes.  Lance and Randall would go over to India each year, select their own stock, and bring it back.  Then Metz started to become available and Henry started to bring over some of his first "super grizzly".  This is one area where materials have only gotten better.                          Good Tying,                               Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

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When you use TWO on a dry fly, you need to take a size 16 (for example) feather from the right side of a cape and the left side.   Mr. G.

Good post.   I’m curious about your left/right suggestion.  I never make any effort to use feathers from opposite sides of the cape when double wrapping. Could you elaborate more on why this is useful? Regards, Joe.  

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        Hi! I thought that a grade three hackle would be better for tying wet flies than dry, but I just read an article that said that they rate the hackle by the count of usable feathers, the main size, and length. I thought that a grade 3 hackle would be softer hackle than a grade 1 or 2 is this true or are there just more usable feathers on a grade 1. Can you tye as good a dry with a grade 3 hackle as you could with grade 1.  I am simply a begginer I dont know grade 3 hackles are softer by expierience I just thought that was how it was THANKS!                                         Dolph

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This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DEAR BUZZARD:  You happen to ask a question that I must rise too.  It is an excellent question.  May I add a few thoughts to get this discussion going? The observation is keen that different hackle manufacturers are indeed grading their hackles differently.  In fact, I doubt the lot of them ever got together and came up with a standard that rates necks from different companies to the same matching-game.  Everyone should give this some thought. Frankly Buzzard, you’re going to have to become a good judge of hackle/necks yourself.  There are certain things you must always pay attention too and I’m not about to cover them all here and now.  But each tier has certain patterns that require different advantages from feathers.  They can be softness, hardness, webbing, lack of webbing, short feathers, long feathers, narrow and wide, the combinations are endless and all feathers have a use in fly tying in one fly or another. Remembe this.  Never throw them away. Besides colors (any color) A feather for DRY FLY FISHING is different in desired aspects than hen feathers for wet flies, nymphs, streamers, etc. BUT!  A hen feather doesn’t necessarily mean it is a feather of less worth. I (personally) won’t settle for a number two neck when for a few dollars more I will be happier with a number one (1)!  The difference between a two and a one can be miles apart even though the numbers are next to each other.  Numbers mean different values to different people.  In grading feathers (Cock necks) throw the number system out the window. Waste it.  It means nothing between manufacturers, BUT with a specific manufacturer such as Hoffman necks, it can be a very reliable numbering system because of one factor.  Hoffman Products (now raised in Grand Junction Colorado) are CONSISTANT and TIGHT in quality.  Whereas; Metz Necks vary with the wind and each chicken season.  Quality always suffers when production increases beyond supervisory abilities.  Hate to say it, but its true. A DRY FLY FEATHER must have certain factors for each tier.  Length, evenly wide hackles, very little webbing, barbel stiffness, sharp tips (not curled on the ends, etc.) flexiable (not brittle) stems, maturity, (in look and feel)  and when you inspect a neck, make sure the skin isn’t brittle so it will crack when bent a little.  (Use some gink on the skin back to keep it from drying out.  Excellent for this, incidently.  And please everyone, don’t slam me for offering a friendly fact) So, basically, today . . .  because of neck retail prices, the trend is splitting a Hoffman neck.  When you buy a split, you are getting only right handed or left  handed bends in feathers.  When you use TWO on a dry fly, you need to take a size 16 (for example) feather from the right side of a cape and the left side.  So, what I’m saying, is . . . if at all possible, always buy the complete neck if its financially comfortable or possible. I’ll let everyone take it from here. Mr. G.         Hi! I thought that a grade three hackle would be better for tying wet flies than dry, but I just read an article that said that they rate the hackle by the count of usable feathers, the main size, and length. I thought that a grade 3 hackle would be softer hackle than a grade 1 or 2 is this true or are there just more usable feathers on a grade 1. Can you tye as good a dry with a grade 3 hackle as you could with grade 1.  I am simply a begginer I dont know grade 3 hackles are softer by expierience I just thought that was how it was THANKS!                                         Dolph

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Question:

I often fish droppers when lake fishing or nymphing on rivers and I wonder what the correct distance between the two flies should be.  Also, should the larger fly go on the point or as the dropper?   Where should split shot go, between the two flies or above the dropper? I imagine that these variables may depend upon which flies I am using and the conditions.  I would appreciate any comments or suggestions.

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Larger, heavier, fy on point. Dropper 2-3 ft. back tied on w/ similar tippet. Shot behind point fly if using shot. Big point fly should make shot unnecessary.

Response:

I often fish droppers when lake fishing or nymphing on rivers and I wonder what the correct distance between the two flies should be.  Also, should the larger fly go on the point or as the dropper?   Where should split shot go, between the two flies or above the dropper? I imagine that these variables may depend upon which flies I am using and the conditions.  I would appreciate any comments or suggestions.

I Have been using a larger beadhead as the point fly for the added weight and that seems to work good.     Jack

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A number of people around Central Oregon are tying a stonefly or beadhead on 3X or 4X tippet, then adding around 18" of 5X and putting either a PT, small hare’s ear, or a caddis pupa BEHIND the large fly, tying the tippet to the bend of the heavier hook.  I have much better luck with this for most situations.

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I often fish droppers when lake fishing or nymphing on rivers and I wonder what the correct distance between the two flies should be.  Also, should the larger fly go on the point or as the dropper?   Where should split shot go, between the two flies or above the dropper? I imagine that these variables may depend upon which flies I am using and the conditions.  I would appreciate any comments or suggestions. I Have been using a larger beadhead as the point fly for the added weight and that seems to work good.    Jack

I have used a larger more colorful fly as an attracter for the lead fly and I have also used  a popper as a strike indicarer for a lead fly. They both seem to work good depending on dept and what you are fishing for.  With both methods I have caught  fish on both flys the same cast.   Tom

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Question:

I haven’t received any mail today. Is the listserver down or is it my local mail handler…

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(Richard Hall) writes: I haven’t received any mail today. Is the listserver down or is it my

local mail handler… I didn’t even know there was a fly fishing mailing list.  How do I subscribe?

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