Question:

NRA FILES CIVIL RIGHTS SUIT On Tuesday, the National Rifle Association filed a civil rights lawsuit on behalf of 12-year-old Virginia NRA member Alan Newsom. The lawsuit charges the principal and vice-principal of the Jack Jouett Middle School and the Albemarle County (Va.) School Board Superintendent and Board members with violating Newsom’s First Amendment rights when they banned him from wearing an NRA Youth Sports Shooting Camp shirt, bearing NRA’s logo, to school last year. Newsom was forced to remove his T-shirt by the vice-principal and told to turn it inside out. She considered the shirt’s illustrations of individuals involved in shooting sports to violate school policy, even though at the time there was no rule that prohibited such clothing. When NRA notified school authorities that their action violated the student’ s civil rights, the school subsequently added a provision for the 2002-2003 school year barring any clothing associated with "weapons" and "violence." "The facts are clear. Alan Newsom was singled-out by the vice-principal because he was wearing an NRA T-shirt," said NRA’s Executive Vice-President Wayne LaPierre. "The T-shirt clearly depicts individuals involved in shooting sports. The images are in no way inappropriate or violent. This is a blatant infringement of young Alan’s constitutional rights. I was dumbfounded when I learned of the facts of this case after Alan’s parents contacted us, and didn’t hesitate to take up this challenge. I am proud to say that NRA stands proudly with this brave young man," LaPierre said. The lawsuit, which seeks $100,000 in damages and $50,000 in punitive damages plus legal costs, was filed in the U.S. Federal District Court for Western District of Virginia, Charlottesville Division. Among the 12 counts included in the federal suit are free speech and due process violations under federal and state constitutions. "NRA wholeheartedly supports the reasonable prohibition of images on clothing depicting violence in a school setting. However, to preclude a student from wearing an article of clothing because it may run counter to the viewpoints or political beliefs of some school officials is deplorable," LaPierre added. In Tinker v. Des Moines School District, the U.S. Supreme Court held "[i]n order for the State in the person of the school officials to justify prohibition of a particular expressed opinion, it must be able to show that its actions were caused by something more than a mere desire to avoid the discomfort and unpleasantness that always accompany an unpopular viewpoint." NRA’s lawsuit also challenges the ambiguity of the new school rule which will not only affect all NRA logos, but also the Great Seal of the United States, the United States Army logo, and the seal of the Commonwealth of Virginia-all with images of "weapons" that would fall within the prohibitions of the school’s new policy. "This is clearly a case of political-correctness running unchecked," LaPierre added. "Alan is a good student who has no disciplinary problems in school. He developed an affinity for shooting sports and his father enrolled him in a NRA Youth Safety Camp to learn basic firearm safety. Alan aspires to represent his country in the Olympics someday. The school authorities harassed and breached Alan’s First Amendment rights merely for his interest in the NRA and shooting sports." The lawsuit noted that, ironically, Jack Jouett Middle School is named for an American Revolutionary War hero who is known for his famous ride on June 3, 1781, in which despite the potential for personal peril, he rode through the night to warn Thomas Jefferson, Patrick Henry, and others that British troops were on their way to arrest patriots for signing the Declaration of Independence. In appreciation for this act of bravery, the Virginia Legislature awarded Captain Jack Jouett a sword and a pair of pistols. For more information on this case, and other cases that NRA-ILA is pursuing, please call (800) 392-8683.

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where’s the fly fishing in this story? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – NRA FILES CIVIL RIGHTS SUIT On Tuesday, the National Rifle Association filed a civil rights lawsuit on behalf of 12-year-old Virginia NRA member Alan Newsom. The lawsuit charges the principal and vice-principal of the Jack Jouett Middle School and the Albemarle County (Va.) School Board Superintendent and Board members with violating Newsom’s First Amendment rights when they banned him from wearing an NRA Youth Sports Shooting Camp shirt, bearing NRA’s logo, to school last year. Newsom was forced to remove his T-shirt by the vice-principal and told to turn it inside out. She considered the shirt’s illustrations of individuals involved in shooting sports to violate school policy, even though at the time there was no rule that prohibited such clothing. When NRA notified school authorities that their action violated the student’ s civil rights, the school subsequently added a provision for the 2002-2003 school year barring any clothing associated with "weapons" and "violence." "The facts are clear. Alan Newsom was singled-out by the vice-principal because he was wearing an NRA T-shirt," said NRA’s Executive Vice-President Wayne LaPierre. "The T-shirt clearly depicts individuals involved in shooting sports. The images are in no way inappropriate or violent. This is a blatant infringement of young Alan’s constitutional rights. I was dumbfounded when I learned of the facts of this case after Alan’s parents contacted us, and didn’t hesitate to take up this challenge. I am proud to say that NRA stands proudly with this brave young man," LaPierre said. The lawsuit, which seeks $100,000 in damages and $50,000 in punitive damages plus legal costs, was filed in the U.S. Federal District Court for Western District of Virginia, Charlottesville Division. Among the 12 counts included in the federal suit are free speech and due process violations under federal and state constitutions. "NRA wholeheartedly supports the reasonable prohibition of images on clothing depicting violence in a school setting. However, to preclude a student from wearing an article of clothing because it may run counter to the viewpoints or political beliefs of some school officials is deplorable," LaPierre added. In Tinker v. Des Moines School District, the U.S. Supreme Court held "[i]n order for the State in the person of the school officials to justify prohibition of a particular expressed opinion, it must be able to show that its actions were caused by something more than a mere desire to avoid the discomfort and unpleasantness that always accompany an unpopular viewpoint." NRA’s lawsuit also challenges the ambiguity of the new school rule which will not only affect all NRA logos, but also the Great Seal of the United States, the United States Army logo, and the seal of the Commonwealth of Virginia-all with images of "weapons" that would fall within the prohibitions of the school’s new policy. "This is clearly a case of political-correctness running unchecked," LaPierre added. "Alan is a good student who has no disciplinary problems in school. He developed an affinity for shooting sports and his father enrolled him in a NRA Youth Safety Camp to learn basic firearm safety. Alan aspires to represent his country in the Olympics someday. The school authorities harassed and breached Alan’s First Amendment rights merely for his interest in the NRA and shooting sports." The lawsuit noted that, ironically, Jack Jouett Middle School is named for an American Revolutionary War hero who is known for his famous ride on June 3, 1781, in which despite the potential for personal peril, he rode through the night to warn Thomas Jefferson, Patrick Henry, and others that British troops were on their way to arrest patriots for signing the Declaration of Independence. In appreciation for this act of bravery, the Virginia Legislature awarded Captain Jack Jouett a sword and a pair of pistols. For more information on this case, and other cases that NRA-ILA is pursuing, please call (800) 392-8683.

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Question:

This past few days I have been fishing the Sage SLT 5 weight 8′6. At 3 ounces it is a dream to cast and it turns over a dry fly so nicely. It performs consistently on long and short casts. but I think it’s the simple comfort it provides (smoothness, forgiveness, lightness) that impressed me. I also nymphed with it, but found it not as good as the Scott for lifting 3 AB shot, 2 #8 nymphs and a waterlogger strike indicator. The last rod I purchased was 4 years ago, a Scott SES. This is the first rod I have tried where I can really feel something worthy of calling a technological advance. I think it just made the Xmas list. — Gary M

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Yes a very good rod with plenty or reserve power, smoothness and light weight in hand. Beats every other 5 weight i’ve ever cast.

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Interesting comments. At our fishing clubs "Tackle Night" the Sage rep was there–so I had the opportunity to cast both the SLT and the XP. I found the SLT to be not to my liking at all. I use a Scott STS 905-4; aqnd again IMO, the SLT couldn’t hold a candle to the Scott., THe XP, however, was an absolute *dream* to cast. Since the Freshwater Scott STS series has been (stupidly IMO) discontinued–if I break the one I have I se an XP 905-4 in my future.   Dave M

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This past few days I have been fishing the Sage SLT 5 weight 8′6. At 3 ounces it is a dream to cast and it turns over a dry fly so nicely. It performs consistently on long and short casts. but I think it’s the simple comfort it provides (smoothness, forgiveness, lightness) that impressed me. I also nymphed with it, but found it not as good as the Scott for lifting 3 AB shot, 2 #8 nymphs and a waterlogger strike indicator. The last rod I purchased was 4 years ago, a Scott SES. This is the first rod I have tried where I can really feel something worthy of calling a technological advance. I think it just made the Xmas list. — Gary M

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Question:

But,one can build the body into most of the bend, use hook shape to the advantage of simulation.

That’s true, especially for scuds, caddis pupae, etc.  Still, by far my most productive fly, a bead-head PT on a TMC 3761, has a pretty straight body that takes up no more than half the total hook length (eye to point). I agree with your earlier statement, "On many subsurface patterns, and even some  surface emerger types, the hook bend can serve to mimic the shape of the natural nymph, pupa or whatever", especially for those forms, like emerging pupae that have associated air bubbles.  The hook bend may correspond in the trout’s eye to the curved edge of the bubble or bubble mass.   Although it’s an uncommon fly, compare the picture of the daphnia fly Dave LaCourse found and posted on ROFT http://www.danica.com/flytier/hverhaar/daphnia.htm to photos of daphnia http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/artjun99/wflea.html Without the hook bend, there’d be little resemblance.  Makes you wonder if all those tiny things on curved #24-28 hooks that we think are midge patterns aren’t really taken by the trout as daphnia (not that it really matters). JR

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Some manufacturers are now producing bright gold, green, red and blue salmon/steelhead hooks.  Why waste all that bare metal when you can dress it up?

One wonders if a little metallic paint added to make the hook look more like the tied bug would make a difference.  I might have to try that for fun just to see. Sandy

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Maybe that big curvy part looks like an ovipositor.  See my web site www.sluttyflies.com

Here’s the sex spam we were looking for.  Bugs waving their ovipositors around.  Hmmph. Sandy

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  One wonders if a little metallic paint added to make the hook look more like the tied bug would make a difference.  I might have to try that for fun just to see.

They are starting to make the colored hooks in trout sizes too.  I saw some at a fly shop on the Beaverhead River and Lou Teletski gave me a fly that used a red hook when we went fishing the other day.  I haven’t tried them yet, but I can see how they might benefit a fly tyer. — Warren Findley Remove (nospamZZ) to respond via email http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt/

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They are starting to make the colored hooks in trout sizes too.  I saw some at a fly shop on the Beaverhead River and Lou Teletski gave me a fly that used a red hook when we went fishing the other day.  I haven’t tried them yet, but I can see how they might benefit a fly tyer.

Did you see who the hook’s maker was? If someone here’s interested in trying it for themselves, you can buy metallic paint (normally used for jewelry) here: http://www.fancifulsinc.com/ Sandy

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You’d think (regardless of your species-specific sense of perception) that this big ol’ ugly THING just hanging there off the bottom of our handiwork is a lot more obvious than the many fine details we obsess over.  Why on earth would any trout swimming not key on THAT?

Depending on the angle the fish sees it from, yes it’s very obvious and I have no doubt whatever that the trout sees it.  But trout are also very used to seeing things on insects – broken legs and wings, a sliver of leaf or filament of weed, or even a pebble and twig case on a caddis.  The trout sees it and just assumes it’s a harmless piece of flotsam, extra fiber if you will.  Only if a trout has been hooked a number of times would he actually recognize it as a "bad" insect, IMO.

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Did you see who the hook’s maker was? If someone here’s interested in trying it for themselves, you can buy metallic paint (normally used for jewelry) here: http://www.fancifulsinc.com/

The hooks I saw were not labeled.  It looked like the shop had bought them bulk and packaged them in little zip lock bags on their own.  I will call out there tomorrow and find out where they bought them at.  I do recall they were expensive (like $10 for 25 hooks if I remember correctly) so your metallic paint idea might be a very good alternative. — Warren Findley Remove (nospamZZ) to respond via email http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt/

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"The trout just assumes it’s a harmless piece of flotsam, extra fiber if you will." "Assumes", to deduce.  The ability to come to a logical conclusion based on facts.   "Trout", to be a genius.  The ability to attend college courses without paying tuitions.  To Trout, as to flaunt wonderful phrases upon non-thinking ass holes who fly fish as a reflex action. "Seeing Trout" extablishes the ability to understand languages such as English. "Feeding Trout", The need to eat with the foreknowledge that to not do so will result in death.   "Dieting Trout", as in "Free Rising" selective trout who know the difference between choosing either a protein insect over one burden with excessive carbohydrates and undesirable fiber. Flyfisherman:  That which has a brain the size of a pea and who talks to the fishes as in Mafia Fisherman.   All’s Fair With Fur or Feather gg

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Warren Findley: One wonders if a little metallic paint added to make the hook look more like the tied bug would make a difference.  I might have to try that for fun just to see. They are starting to make the colored hooks in trout sizes too.  I saw some at a fly shop on the Beaverhead River and Lou Teletski gave me a fly that used a red hook when we went fishing the other day.  I haven’t tried them yet, but I can see how they might benefit a fly tyer. —

I’ve been using red nymph hooks for five or six years.  It’s the only color I’ve seen in the smaller sizes. As far as glitter is concerned, good old nail polish (Wet and Wild) with the silver or gold flecks in it works well.  Also, Orvis sells some head cement with silver flecks.   Dave

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I’ve been using red nymph hooks for five or six years.  It’s the only color I’ve seen in the smaller sizes. As far as glitter is concerned, good old nail polish (Wet and Wild) with the silver or gold flecks in it works well.  Also, Orvis sells some head cement with silver flecks. Dave

Do you think there’s an advantage in using colored hooks? The nail polish idea is a good one — you can get it in any crazy color these days, and Wet & Wild is pretty cheap, but the clerk at the store might look at you funny. Sandy

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Reading about colored hooks now is a revelation to me Jon and I suppose it makes sense to include the hook coloring of olive, for instance, to add to the tone of an olive caddis emerger, for instance.  It seems this is one of those rare instances where the present generation is going to drag me, screaming and kicking into the future.  I might be an old dog learning new tricks but it doesn’t mean I have to like it. Now if you please, would someone hold my hand down hard upon this table so it won’t lift that shot of Jack Daniels to my quivering lips? Mr. G. All’s Fair With Fur or Feather gg

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……. But trout are also very used to seeing things on insects – broken legs and wings, a sliver of leaf or filament of weed, or even a pebble and twig case on a caddis.  The trout sees it and just assumes it’s a harmless piece of flotsam, extra fiber if you will.  Only if a trout has been hooked a number of times would he actually recognize it as a "bad" insect, IMO.

Yes, that’s all plausible. JR

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Do you think there’s an advantage in using colored hooks? The nail polish idea is a good one — you can get it in any crazy color these days, and Wet & Wild is pretty cheap, but the clerk at the store might look at you funny.

I called up that fly shop in Dillon and they said the hooks are manufactured by Daiichi.  I checked the Daiichi website and they have red, black, nickel and gold hooks in a variety of styles.  Unfortunately they do not list their hooks that would be of use to fly fishermen so I emailed the company for more information.  Here is a link to their website if you care to take a look. http://www.daiichihooks.com/daiichi/index.html — Warren Findley Remove (nospamZZ) to respond via email http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt/

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I called up that fly shop in Dillon and they said the hooks are manufactured by Daiichi.  I checked the Daiichi website and they have red, black, nickel and gold hooks in a variety of styles.  Unfortunately they do not list their hooks that would be of use to fly fishermen so I emailed the company for more information.  Here is a link to their website if you care to take a look. http://www.daiichihooks.com/daiichi/index.html

   Another manufacturer of colored hooks is Gamakatsu (www.gamakatsu.com). I’ve seen them in the local fly shops but never tied with them, but I’ll vouch for the quality of their product. I was a serious ocean/big game fisherman in a past life; Gamakatsu and Owner were the only hooks I’d use.

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Warren?  Wouldn’t you t hink a gold hook would most likely be like adding gold tinsel to a fly?  I don’t know. George All’s Fair With Fur or Feather gg

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I think, but have no proof for it, that hook recognition develops in fish over time and that this is a major part of what we anglers call "selective behavior". I feel this is mostly a factor with flies at/near the surface, and more an issue in slower, richer streams that offer more time for the fish to observe their prey. On many subsurface patterns, and even some surface emerger types, the hook bend can serve to mimic the shape of the natural nymph,pupa or whatever.

I agree it’s mostly a factor in slower, richer streams.  I’d have thought, though, it was also more important with subsurface flies than with dries, first because the "profile" of the bend is reduced when viewed from below, and second because, as well described by Peter in the Fly Perceptions thread, it may be that the bare part of the hook is somewhat masked by the dimples and associated halos caused by the hackle and tail. JR

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When I first read the header to this post I ignored because I thought it was sex site SPAM!!!!!!!

Sorry.  Fine state of affairs when we *expect* to see sex spam, ain’t it? What you say may very well be true, but like I said in another post, it’s something that confirms my opinion that fish perceive our flies in a very different way from the way we do. That "big-ass curvy part" is very evident to me and seems even more prevalent in smaller flies. Maybe they ignore it because they tend to look for certain things that are "right" about a fly or for a certain trigger instead of things that are "wrong." Maybe those "educated" fish have learned to look for things that are "wrong" as well???

Well, my speculations were just musings.  To me, it remains a great mystery that fish will overlook something so conspicuous.  On the other hand, say a fish ignores a nymph presented once, twice, and takes it on the third cast.  It might well be that, just by chance, the fly was turned the third time in a way to present a top or bottom view (with the bare hook bend hidden), while the first two times, again by chance alone, the fly passed the fish turned in a way that presented the fly more in profile, with the bend more exposed. When fishing the traditional downstream swing for steelhead here in the PNW, one tactic is to throw upstream mends to slow down the swing, allowing the fish the longest possible view of the fly (a good tactic when swinging soft hackles for trout, too).  A disadvantage is that unless you use a riffle hitch or some such, the view the fish has tends to be a butt-on, reduced view.  It addition to the riffle hitch, a greased line presentation also serves to give the fish a full profile view of the fly.  The difference (from fishing for trout) is that you just want the steelhead to see the very most of whatever silhouette the fly happens to have, to maximize the sheer provocation value of the fly–you’re not trying to imitate any particular natural foodstuff.  Here the more bare hook you have visible, maybe the better.  Some manufacturers are now producing bright gold, green, red and blue salmon/steelhead hooks.  Why waste all that bare metal when you can dress it up? JR

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I’ve often wondered about that "big-ass curvy part", but most of the time it doesn’t seem to bother the trout’s attraction to the lure.

Good thing, too, otherwise we’d all have to find another sport.  ;)  I guess that’s what amazes me:  that it *doesn’t* bother the fish while very minor differences in other parts of the fly will make a difference. JR

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Maybe that big curvy part looks like an ovipositor.  See my web site www.sluttyflies.com

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I believe that many streams (I know of three) where the fish are "opportunistic" — that is, if it looks like it could be food, they will strike it.  On the rivers I recently visited in Idaho, there was no hatch, yet they readily took a humpy or a Klinkhammer, the bigger the better.  The guide gave my grandson a #10 red humpy and I marveled at its effectiveness.   This is just the opposite of another river I fish – when there is no hatch, the fish will rise to a very small, well presented dry.  Nymphing the rivers in Idaho was very successful, but again you had to give them a big nymph.  My #18s and 20s were useless.  Those same 18s and 20s on another river will catch many fish.

"Bigger is better" is right. I seldom use dries smaller than #12 or nymphs smaller than #14 in those Idaho waters you fished. I think the deal is that they’re relatively sterile freestone rivers. The fish jump on whatever they see that looks edible. Large, good floating Chernobyl patterns with dropper nymphs are very effective. So are large orange stimulators. You can catch these fish with an indicator attached to a bare hook. I only use the standard nymph patterns — pheasant tails, hare’s ears, prince nymphs, and lately copper johns. Also, the fish are mostly cutthroats, which are notoriously gullible. It doesn’t make for particularly challenging fishing (aside from the ass-busting hiking to get to the good spots), but it’s fun. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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John replies:  I’d have thought, though, it was also more important with subsurface flies than with dries, first because the "profile" of the bend is reduced when viewed from below,

But,one can build the body into most of the bend, use hook shape to the advantage of simulation. it may be that the bare part of the hook is somewhat masked by the dimples and associated halos caused by the hackle and tail.

I disagree. If you watch how a fresh, well hackled dry fly floats, the hook penetrates the surface,except for a tightly palmered hackle. Most dries settle right on top of the surface with the body, with some hackle tips in the water and the ones on the sides doing the work of holding the fly up. Anyhow, the hook will be seen, and quite distinctly from the body silhouette.                              Tom L

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John writes: just what do we imagine the fish make of that big long hook bend

I think, but have no proof for it, that hook recognition develops in fish over time and that this is a major part of what we anglers call "selective behavior". I feel this is mostly a factor with flies at/near the surface, and more an issue in slower, richer streams that offer more time for the fish to observe their prey. On many subsurface patterns, and even some surface emerger types, the hook bend can serve to mimic the shape of the natural nymph,pupa or whatever.                                Tom L

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John writes: just what do we imagine the fish make of that big long hook bend I think, but have no proof for it, that hook recognition develops in fish over time and that this is a major part of what we anglers call "selective behavior". I feel this is mostly a factor with flies at/near the surface, and more an issue in slower, richer streams that offer more time for the fish to observe their prey. On many subsurface patterns, and even some surface emerger types, the hook bend can serve to mimic the shape of the natural nymph,pupa or whatever.

When I first read the header to this post I ignored because I thought it was sex site SPAM!!!!!!! What you say may very well be true, but like I said in another post, it’s something that confirms my opinion that fish perceive our flies in a very different way from the way we do. That "big-ass curvy part" is very evident to me and seems even more prevalent in smaller flies. Maybe they ignore it because they tend to look for certain things that are "right" about a fly or for a certain trigger instead of things that are "wrong." Maybe those "educated" fish have learned to look for things that are "wrong" as well??? Willi

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Willi writes: John writes: just what do we imagine the fish make of that big long hook bend I think, but have no proof for it, that hook recognition develops in fish over time and that this is a major part of what we anglers call "selective behavior". I feel this is mostly a factor with flies at/near the surface, and more an issue in slower, richer streams that offer more time for the fish to observe their prey. On many subsurface patterns, and even some surface emerger types, the hook bend can serve to mimic the shape of the natural nymph,pupa or whatever. When I first read the header to this post I ignored because I thought it was sex site SPAM!!!!!!! What you say may very well be true, but like I said in another post, it’s something that confirms my opinion that fish perceive our flies in a very different way from the way we do. That "big-ass curvy part" is very evident to me and seems even more prevalent in smaller flies. Maybe they ignore it because they tend to look for certain things that are "right" about a fly or for a certain trigger instead of things that are "wrong." Maybe those "educated" fish have learned to look for things that are "wrong" as well??? Willi

I believe that many streams (I know of three) where the fish are "opportunistic" — that is, if it looks like it could be food, they will strike it.  On the rivers I recently visited in Idaho, there was no hatch, yet they readily took a humpy or a Klinkhammer, the bigger the better.  The guide gave my grandson a #10 red humpy and I marveled at its effectiveness.   This is just the opposite of another river I fish – when there is no hatch, the fish will rise to a very small, well presented dry.  Nymphing the rivers in Idaho was very successful, but again you had to give them a big nymph.  My #18s and 20s were useless.  Those same 18s and 20s on another river will catch many fish. I’ve often wondered about that "big-ass curvy part", but most of the time it doesn’t seem to bother the trout’s attraction to the lure. Dave

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The recent discussion about wings, fishes’ perception, etc., reminded me of something I’ve often wondered, even marveled about–one of those things that come unbidden to mind on the thousandth (or two thousandth) fishless cast of the day on a steelhead river. Those of us who agonize over the minutiae of wing size, or number of fibers in the tail, or shade of copper in the ribbing:  just what do we imagine the fish make of that big long hook bend that on some patterns constitutes 50% or more of the whole gestalt (if you’ll pardon the word) presented to the fish?  Think of some ties you’ve seen of English PTs or soft hackles on those short hooks with absolutely huge gaps; yet these are effective flies.  You’d think (regardless of your species-specific sense of perception) that this big ol’ ugly THING just hanging there off the bottom of our handiwork is a lot more obvious than the many fine details we obsess over.  Why on earth would any trout swimming not key on THAT? I’d imagine the influence of the hook bend is least when the fly is viewed from directly above (in which case for most flies, it’s invisible); almost as little when viewed from directly below; slightly greater when viewed at an oblique angle above, behind, or to side; and greatest when viewed at right angles from the side.   If this is right, could it be one reason (in addition to the commonly cited ones) a straight downstream presentation of a dry is successful when casting to selective fish on calm waters?  Could there be implications for presentation of nymphs in slower water?  A reason why LaFontaine’s sparkle pupa (with the bend shrouded) is so effective?  A reason to use nothing but the lightest wire hooks available? (A reason for me to get a life and think about more useful things?) JR

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Question:

I expect to take golf up again after a haitius of 25+ years. (The walking did me in:)) The plan is is to start off on weekdays at in the fall, on carts, by myself at a Publinx. I expect to have trouble breaking 200 for starters:) I expect though to get better if I stick with it. However I would not be suprised if I never get the equivilent of a 100 on a real hard championship course. But I am going to do it to enjoy myself and the nice weather when there is nice weather. (Dry, between 60 and 75 degrees, no wind, a little warmer with wind. I wonder if most people have lost the ability to enjoy some of life’s simpler pleasures? I wonder if it would happen to me?:) I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend until YOUR DEATH your right to say it! –Austin 3:17 JOHN A. MONTGOMERY

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I expect to take golf up again after a haitius of 25+ years. (The walking did me in:)) The plan is is to start off on weekdays at in the fall, on carts, by myself at a Publinx. I expect to have trouble breaking 200 for starters:) I expect though to get better if I stick with it. However I would not be suprised if I never get the equivilent of a 100 on a real hard championship course. But I am going to do it to enjoy myself and the nice weather when there is nice weather. (Dry, between 60 and 75 degrees, no wind, a little warmer with wind. I wonder if most people have lost the ability to enjoy some of life’s simpler pleasures? I wonder if it would happen to me?:)

Nah. Just look at the ones going to organized RSG events. ‘Cept for Ken, who loves winning a bet with someone. Get back to playing, and enjoy the ~4 hours of therapy. I’m going for my session tomorrow (Where are you Thor?) -T- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend until YOUR DEATH your right to say it! –Austin 3:17 JOHN A. MONTGOMERY

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Do people take golf too seriously?

Why, I should kill you for even asking such a silly question!

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I expect to take golf up again after a haitius of 25+ years. (The walking did me in:)) The plan is is to start off on weekdays at in the fall, on carts, by myself at a Publinx. I expect to have trouble breaking 200 for starters:) I expect though to get better if I stick with it. However I would not be suprised if I never get the equivilent of a 100 on a real hard championship course. But I am going to do it to enjoy myself and the nice weather when there is nice weather. (Dry, between 60 and 75 degrees, no wind, a little warmer with wind. I wonder if most people have lost the ability to enjoy some of life’s simpler pleasures? I wonder if it would happen to me?:)

In fly fishing, there’s a saying that maybe the mark of a fisherman should not be how big of a fish will satisfy him, but how small of a fish he can catch and be satisfied.  I suppose there’s something similar in golf.  Good luck, doesn’t work for me

Response:

In fly fishing, there’s a saying that maybe the mark of a fisherman should not be how big of a fish will satisfy him, but how small of a fish he can catch and be satisfied.  

With me, probably anything with over a pound of filet in it. Last time I ever fished was 40 years from a boat in a like, caufgt zilch. I can’t remember if I ever caught a keeper in my life:) I read somewhere that fish often bite for people who smell good to them:) I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend until YOUR DEATH your right to say it! –Austin 3:17 JOHN A. MONTGOMERY

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I expect to take golf up again after a haitius of 25+ years. (The walking did me in:)) The plan is is to start off on weekdays at in the fall, on carts, by myself at a Publinx. I expect to have trouble breaking 200 for starters:) I expect though to get better if I stick with it. However I would not be suprised if I never get the equivilent of a 100 on a real hard championship course. But I am going to do it to enjoy myself and the nice weather when there is nice weather. (Dry, between 60 and 75 degrees, no wind, a little warmer with wind. I wonder if most people have lost the ability to enjoy some of life’s simpler pleasures? I wonder if it would happen to me?:) I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend until YOUR DEATH your right to say it! –Austin 3:17 JOHN A. MONTGOMERY

 hey john what’s your POD, oops this isn’t shwi.  but seriously, do some people take golf too seriously, nah  cursing, throwing clubs is just their way of unwinding  bud

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Someone asked… Do people take golf too seriously? Well… I try… dsc

Response:

Teresa please do yourself a great favor by reading the golfswinger course and practice what it teaches to the letter…exercise is important for your swing to work properly and naturally…get in shape and stay in shape. Tell me in 6 months that you are a low handicapper. Al http://golfswinger.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I expect to take golf up again after a haitius of 25+ years. (The walking did me in:)) The plan is is to start off on weekdays at in the fall, on carts, by myself at a Publinx. I expect to have trouble breaking 200 for starters:) I expect though to get better if I stick with it. However I would not be suprised if I never get the equivilent of a 100 on a real hard championship course. But I am going to do it to enjoy myself and the nice weather when there is nice weather. (Dry, between 60 and 75 degrees, no wind, a little warmer with wind. I wonder if most people have lost the ability to enjoy some of life’s simpler pleasures? I wonder if it would happen to me?:) Nah. Just look at the ones going to organized RSG events. ‘Cept for Ken, who loves winning a bet with someone. Get back to playing, and enjoy the ~4 hours of therapy. I’m going for my session tomorrow (Where are you Thor?) -T- I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend until YOUR DEATH your right to say it! –Austin 3:17 JOHN A. MONTGOMERY

Response:

Excuse me, sir, but I have a professional working with me on my game. I am afraid to listen to more than one teacher who might confuse what he is instructing me on. Thank you for your efforts. Secondly, what were you refering to? -T-

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Teresa please do yourself a great favor by reading the golfswinger course and practice what it teaches to the letter…exercise is important for your swing to work properly and naturally…get in shape and stay in shape. Tell me in 6 months that you are a low handicapper. Al http://golfswinger.com I expect to take golf up again after a haitius of 25+ years. (The walking did me in:)) The plan is is to start off on weekdays at in the fall, on carts, by myself at a Publinx. I expect to have trouble breaking 200 for starters:) I expect though to get better if I stick with it. However I would not be suprised if I never get the equivilent of a 100 on a real hard championship course. But I am going to do it to enjoy myself and the nice weather when there is nice weather. (Dry, between 60 and 75 degrees, no wind, a little warmer with wind. I wonder if most people have lost the ability to enjoy some of life’s simpler pleasures? I wonder if it would happen to me?:) Nah. Just look at the ones going to organized RSG events. ‘Cept for Ken, who loves winning a bet with someone. Get back to playing, and enjoy the ~4 hours of therapy. I’m going for my session tomorrow (Where are you Thor?) -T- I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend until YOUR DEATH your right to say it! –Austin 3:17 JOHN A. MONTGOMERY

Response:

Excuse me, sir, but I have a professional working with me on my game. I am afraid to listen to more than one teacher who might confuse what he is instructing me on. Thank you for your efforts. Secondly, what were you refering to?

He’s referring to a website that he has promoted in no less than five different threads. Hey Al, do us a favor…get lost. Dave Clary/Corpus Christi,TX http://home.stx.rr.com/dclary RSG Roll Call http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/claryd.htm

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Come on, is it possible to take golf too seriously?

Response:

Teresa please do yourself a great favor by reading the golfswinger course and practice what it teaches to the letter…exercise is important for your swing to work properly and naturally…get in shape and stay in shape. Tell me in 6 months that you are a low handicapper. Al

Buzz off with this crap Al!

Response:

Oh I know…. I was trying to be a nice person instead of saying F&*^ off! When in doubt, kill them with kindness. -T-

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Excuse me, sir, but I have a professional working with me on my game. I am afraid to listen to more than one teacher who might confuse what he is instructing me on. Thank you for your efforts. Secondly, what were you refering to? He’s referring to a website that he has promoted in no less than five different threads. Hey Al, do us a favor…get lost. Dave Clary/Corpus Christi,TX http://home.stx.rr.com/dclary RSG Roll Call http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/claryd.htm

Response:

Excuse me, sir, but I have a professional working with me on my game. I am afraid to listen to more than one teacher who might confuse what he is instructing me on. Thank you for your efforts. Secondly, what were you refering to? He’s referring to a website that he has promoted in no less than five different threads.

I think she was being funny – referring to the old thread where a woman (different woman?) asked for advice for when somebody on the driving range tries to help with her swing and won’t take no for an answer.  Teresa’s post is basically one of the replies that woman got

Response:

You are most likely continuously correcting faults in the basis of your swing instead of learning how to have a great swing forever. Try it, it can’t hurt you. Simple and uncomplicated. It will only improve you. Show it to you "Professional" as I.I’m sure he too will benefit.Al

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Excuse me, sir, but I have a professional working with me on my game. I am afraid to listen to more than one teacher who might confuse what he is instructing me on. Thank you for your efforts. Secondly, what were you refering to? He’s referring to a website that he has promoted in no less than five different threads. I think she was being funny – referring to the old thread where a woman (different woman?) asked for advice for when somebody on the driving range tries to help with her swing and won’t take no for an answer.  Teresa’s post is basically one of the replies that woman got

Response:

Excuse me, sir, but I have a professional working with me on my game. I am afraid to listen to more than one teacher who might confuse what he is instructing me on. Thank you for your efforts. -T-

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You are most likely continuously correcting faults in the basis of your swing instead of learning how to have a great swing forever. Try it, it can’t hurt you. Simple and uncomplicated. It will only improve you. Show it to you "Professional" as I.I’m sure he too will benefit.Al Excuse me, sir, but I have a professional working with me on my game. I am afraid to listen to more than one teacher who might confuse what he is instructing me on. Thank you for your efforts. Secondly, what were you refering to? He’s referring to a website that he has promoted in no less than five different threads. I think she was being funny – referring to the old thread where a woman (different woman?) asked for advice for when somebody on the driving range tries to help with her swing and won’t take no for an answer.  Teresa’s post is basically one of the replies that woman got

Response:

You are most likely continuously correcting faults in the basis of your swing instead of learning how to have a great swing forever. Try it, it can’t hurt you. Simple and uncomplicated. It will only improve you. Show it to you "Professional" as I.I’m sure he too will benefit.Al "Jeff Connelly" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Excuse me, sir, but I have a professional working with me on my game. I am afraid to listen to more than one teacher who might confuse what he is instructing me on. Thank you for your efforts. -T- You are most likely continuously correcting faults in the basis of your swing instead of learning how to have a great swing forever. Try it, it can’t hurt you. Simple and uncomplicated. It will only improve you. Show it to you "Professional" as I.I’m sure he too will benefit.Al Excuse me, sir, but I have a professional working with me on my game. I am afraid to listen to more than one teacher who might confuse what he is instructing me on. Thank you for your efforts. Secondly, what were you refering to? He’s referring to a website that he has promoted in no less than five different threads. I think she was being funny – referring to the old thread where a woman (different woman?) asked for advice for when somebody on the driving range tries to help with her swing and won’t take no for an answer. Teresa’s post is basically one of the replies that woman got

Response:

You are most likely continuously correcting faults in the basis of your swing instead of learning how to have a great swing forever. Try it, it can’t hurt you. Simple and uncomplicated. It will only improve you. Show it to you "Professional" as I.I’m sure he too will benefit.Al

Is my server screwing up, or is Al losing it?  This seems like "Groundhog Day".

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I’ve tried being nice, and you won’t get the hint. F*** OFF! I am not interested in your S****! Sincerely, -T-

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You are most likely continuously correcting faults in the basis of your swing instead of learning how to have a great swing forever. Try it, it can’t hurt you. Simple and uncomplicated. It will only improve you. Show it to you "Professional" as I.I’m sure he too will benefit.Al "Jeff Connelly" Excuse me, sir, but I have a professional working with me on my game. I am afraid to listen to more than one teacher who might confuse what he is instructing me on. Thank you for your efforts. -T- You are most likely continuously correcting faults in the basis of your swing instead of learning how to have a great swing forever. Try it, it can’t hurt you. Simple and uncomplicated. It will only improve you. Show it to you "Professional" as I.I’m sure he too will benefit.Al Excuse me, sir, but I have a professional working with me on my game. I am afraid to listen to more than one teacher who might confuse what he is instructing me on. Thank you for your efforts. Secondly, what were you refering to? He’s referring to a website that he has promoted in no less than five different threads. I think she was being funny – referring to the old thread where a woman (different woman?) asked for advice for when somebody on the driving range tries to help with her swing and won’t take no for an answer. Teresa’s post is basically one of the replies that woman got

Response:

Aw come on, tell him what you really think – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve tried being nice, and you won’t get the hint. F*** OFF! I am not interested in your S****! Sincerely, -T- You are most likely continuously correcting faults in the basis of your swing instead of learning how to have a great swing forever. Try it, it can’t hurt you. Simple and uncomplicated. It will only improve you. Show it to you "Professional" as I.I’m sure he too will benefit.Al "Jeff Connelly" in Excuse me, sir, but I have a professional working with me on my game. I am afraid to listen to more than one teacher who might confuse what he is instructing me on. Thank you for your efforts. -T- You are most likely continuously correcting faults in the basis of your swing instead of learning how to have a great swing forever. Try it, it can’t hurt you. Simple and uncomplicated. It will only improve you. Show it to you "Professional" as I.I’m sure he too will benefit.Al Excuse me, sir, but I have a professional working with me on my game. I am afraid to listen to more than one teacher who might confuse what he is instructing me on. Thank you for your efforts. Secondly, what were you refering to? He’s referring to a website that he has promoted in no less than five different threads. I think she was being funny – referring to the old thread where a woman (different woman?) asked for advice for when somebody on the driving range tries to help with her swing and won’t take no for an answer. Teresa’s post is basically one of the replies that woman got

Response:

I’ve tried being nice, and you won’t get the hint. F*** OFF! I am not interested in your S****! Sincerely, -T-

Nicely done!  Now I really hope to meet you at RSG DFW.  You not only look like Bruce Willis, you can cuss like him!

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Teresa……what balls do you play with? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve tried being nice, and you won’t get the hint. F*** OFF! I am not interested in your S****! Sincerely, -T- You are most likely continuously correcting faults in the basis of your swing instead of learning how to have a great swing forever. Try it, it can’t hurt you. Simple and uncomplicated. It will only improve you. Show it to you "Professional" as I.I’m sure he too will benefit.Al "Jeff Connelly" Excuse me, sir, but I have a professional working with me on my game. I am afraid to listen to more than one teacher who might confuse what he is instructing me on. Thank you for your efforts. -T- You are most likely continuously correcting faults in the basis of your swing instead of learning how to have a great swing forever. Try it, it can’t hurt you. Simple and uncomplicated. It will only improve you. Show it to you "Professional" as I.I’m sure he too will benefit.Al Excuse me, sir, but I have a professional working with me on my game. I am afraid to listen to more than one teacher who might confuse what he is instructing me on. Thank you for your efforts. Secondly, what were you refering to? He’s referring to a website that he has promoted in no less than five different threads. I think she was being funny – referring to the old thread where a woman (different woman?) asked for advice for when somebody on the driving range tries to help with her swing and won’t take no for an answer. Teresa’s post is basically one of the replies that woman got

Response:

I believe when she wrote "F*** OFF! I am not interested in your S****!" she was attempting to put an end to your unsolicited advice.  Your question as to what balls she plays with seems to me to be a continuation of said adivce.  I get the feeling no matter what balls she uses you will tell her to read the golfswinger course.  Perhaps it would be a good idea for you to follow her suggestion… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Teresa……what balls do you play with? I’ve tried being nice, and you won’t get the hint. F*** OFF! I am not interested in your S****! Sincerely, -T- You are most likely continuously correcting faults in the basis of your swing instead of learning how to have a great swing forever. Try it, it can’t hurt you. Simple and uncomplicated. It will only improve you. Show it to you "Professional" as I.I’m sure he too will benefit.Al "Jeff Connelly" Excuse me, sir, but I have a professional working with me on my game. I am afraid to listen to more than one teacher who might confuse what he is instructing me on. Thank you for your efforts. -T- You are most likely continuously correcting faults in the basis of your swing instead of learning how to have a great swing forever. Try it, it can’t hurt you. Simple and uncomplicated. It will only improve you. Show it to you "Professional" as I.I’m sure he too will benefit.Al Excuse me, sir, but I have a professional working with me on my game. I am afraid to listen to more than one teacher who might confuse what he is instructing me on. Thank you for your efforts. Secondly, what were you refering to? He’s referring to a website that he has promoted in no less than five different threads. I think she was being funny – referring to the old thread where a woman (different woman?) asked for advice for when somebody on the driving range tries to help with her swing and won’t take no for an answer. Teresa’s post is basically one of the replies that woman got

Response:

Teresa……what balls do you play with? I’ve tried being nice, and you won’t get the hint. F*** OFF! I am not interested in your S****!

Al: You’re jacking with one of the favorite posters on this ng, and a super lady.  I suggest that you stop.   ___,     o        |       /      .   "Someone likes every shot" bk

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Question:

I’d like to cast my vote for stronger enforcement of the anti-snagging laws.  It is still going on, although no weighted treble hooks are in evidence.   Personally, I have all kinds of cute ideas for laws that would make lifting ineffective, but without enforcement, such laws would be meaningless.  Personally, I’ve spent four days on the Salmon River this year and have yet to see any DEC enforcement, or hear of any arrests. I’ve seen plenty of lifting going on, even in the flyfishing sections of the River. I’d also like to see better and more "real-time" reporting of river conditions.  A bad report might keep me from coming up on a given day, but no accurate reporting whatsoever leaves me with a level of risk, given my 5 hour drive to get to the River.  It might be good if someone were to post the current Niagara Mohawk release reports somewhere.  I’d like to see Jim Rusher at Whittakers do this, since he seems to have the best "river-oriented" site, but I understand that the cost of Niagara Mohawk’s 900 number could get a bit out of control…maybe a Chamber of Commerce opportunity lies in here. Bob Davis

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writes: Bob,

    Thanks for your comments. The C of C would be hard pressed to fund the purchase of a subscription to the Waterline # and I’m also sure that Waterline as a business would be less than pleased. You’r right though, timely water level conditions are of the utmost importance.     I’d be happy to share any info I have on conditions, etc. as I look out my back window at the river.     Today, the rains continued resulting in continued big water. My folks landed two rainbows in the upper fly zone, saw lots of fish in Trout Brook and saw plenty of snagging (unfortunately) in Oswego.     Regards,     Bill — Bill Fling                     Tel. (315) 298-3044 SALMON RIVER ANGLERS LODGE     FAX  (315) 298-2619 P.O. Box 353                   Rt. 13, Rome Road Pulaski, NY 13142-0353   ‘SALMON RIVER/LAKE ONTARIO SPORTFISHING REPORTS’             ‘http://www.salmon-river.com’

Response:

I saw game wardens a few times this year on the river but they never seem to wander far from the parking areas.On the oswego river you see more wardens because it is a very easily accessable place to fish.They arent any more thrilled about going to work than average person so they really arent going to walk all that far to see if people are lifting farther up the river or not.I have seen many river guides lift fish and hand the rod right to there clients and of course the lifted fish was kept.Until we fisherman lose the "its going to die after spawning anyways"attitude the snagging will never stop.Maybe we should start a donate a roper program to help out the dec..

Response:

Bill — Because NYS has finally banned snagging, I have started to fish the Salmon River, and therefore patronize local restaurants, tackle shops, etc. In my six visits so far this year, I have not seen any evidence of law enforcement. I have, however, noticed a lot of anglers who have foul-hooked chinooks and have been very negligent in their releases. Many do not bother to revive fish after they remove their hooks. In my opinion, more law enforcement and angler education is needed to help the Salmon River become a truly great fishery. Moreover, the Chamber might want to explore ways to help clean the River banks and trails from the mess of liter and old line. Such an effort would greatly enhance the Salmon River’s image and popularity among influential anglers. Lastly, the DEC should be given alot of credit for finally making a stand against snagging/lifting. Showing appreciation and support to them would probably go a long way in helping the future of the Salmon River and the people who make a living from it. PS: I refuse to patronize any establishment in the Pulaski-area that has fought against the ban on snagging (MacDonald’s, etc.). Bob Elliott, Rochester, NY – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – At its next meeting in late November, the Pulaski/Eastern Shore Chamber of Commerce will be discussing the law enforcement detail here on the Salmon River. As president, I’d be interested in hearing about any FIRST HAND experiences you may have had this year. I’ll use your contributions as a springboard to open discussion. Thanks in advance, Bill — Bill Fling                     Tel. (315) 298-3044 SALMON RIVER ANGLERS LODGE     FAX  (315) 298-2619 P.O. Box 353                   Rt. 13, Rome Road Pulaski, NY 13142-0353   ‘SALMON RIVER/LAKE ONTARIO SPORTFISHING REPORTS’             ‘http://www.salmon-river.com’

Response:

At its next meeting in late November, the Pulaski/Eastern Shore Chamber of Commerce will be discussing the law enforcement detail here on the Salmon River. As president, I’d be interested in hearing about any FIRST HAND experiences you may have had this year. I’ll use your contributions as a springboard to open discussion. Thanks in advance, Bill — Bill Fling                     Tel. (315) 298-3044 SALMON RIVER ANGLERS LODGE     FAX  (315) 298-2619 P.O. Box 353                   Rt. 13, Rome Road Pulaski, NY 13142-0353   ‘SALMON RIVER/LAKE ONTARIO SPORTFISHING REPORTS’             ‘http://www.salmon-river.com’

Response:

Question:

I am planning a flyfishing trip to the Bighorn River in the Fort Smith area in September. I have been told by a friend that the river is usually overloaded with boats and fishermen during the summer and early fall resulting in unproductive and tough fishing conditions on this stretch of the river. Is this true? Would appreciate any information on this matter. Thanks

Response:

I am planning a flyfishing trip to the Bighorn River in the Fort Smith area in September. I have been told by a friend that the river is usually overloaded with boats and fishermen during the summer and early fall

quite true. resulting in unproductive and tough fishing conditions on this stretch of the river.

quite false.  The fishing is somewhat technical.  You have to match the hatches, but the local fly shops can tell you what’s going on, and I wouldn’t call the fishing "unproductive."  The main thing that’s "tough" about it is competing with hundreds of other anglers for the good holes. — -Wayne Trzyna

Response:

Question:

This may be old info, and I can’t vouch for the truth in it, but I found this to be funny. An article I read recently said that PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) had not copyrighted "PETA" acronym. By not doing so, it was left open to be used by any other group that might choose to copyright it.      (Snip)    How about ‘People Enraged at the Tactics of Assholes’?

Dee Crabtree

Response:

Dear All; PETA humor is an oxymoron.  PETA people have no sense of humor. Popping Extra Tumms Antacids Perpetually Engendered to Thoughtless Activities Profanity, Epithets and Terrorist Activities Geez, I’m out!  (That first one is pretty far out there!  It’s funny if you keep reading it or saying it over to yourself.  Handgrenade humour.) Sincerely JB

Response:

This may be old info, and I can’t vouch for the truth in it, but I found this to be funny. An article I read recently said that PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) had not copyrighted "PETA" acronym. By not doing so, it was left open to be used by any other group that might choose to copyright it.      (Snip)    How about ‘People Enraged at the Tactics of Assholes’?

check out www.peta.org (people eating tasty animals) I think.. -Dan-

Response:

Please join my PETA group today !!! "Persons Enjoying Trout Almondine " TimW

Response:

Iwould like to start a local chapter of PETA; People Extremely Tired of Assholes Dale

Response:

Iwould like to start a local chapter of PETA; People Extremely Tired of Assholes Dale

And who would make up the charter membership, Dan ??? Dee Crabtree

Response:

Quoting fuscor6285 from a message in rec.outdoors.fishing.fly    < An article I read recently said that PETA (People for the Ethical    < Treatment of Animals) had not copyrighted "PETA" acronym. By not    < doing so, it was left open to be used by any other group that might    < choose to copyright it.    <    <     (Snip)    <     How about ‘People Enraged at the Tactics of Assholes’? You can check out the web page of that other group "People Eating Tasty Animals" at http://www.peta.org/ Jim Carlisle

Response:

And someone did, creating a PETA group (People Eating Tasty Animals). Supposedly the old peta is trying to force the new peta to relinquish the acronym. Whether true or not, it is humorous, and sums up my attitude towards PETA. It is true and there is a web page dedicated to it’s proliferation. I just can’t remember what it is though!

Try http://www.peta.org Dennis – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Gary McMeekin

Response:

This may be old info, and I can’t vouch for the truth in it, but I found this to be funny. An article I read recently said that PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) had not copyrighted "PETA" acronym. By not doing so, it was left open to be used by any other group that might choose to copyright it.      (Snip)    How about ‘People Enraged at the Tactics of Assholes’?

i can’t see the past posts so i may be repeating but there is a home page already using the peta name …people eating tasty animals…try http://www.peta.org or something like that and you will see why peta wishes they had regestered their name…  ;) jeff

Response:

This may be old info, and I can’t vouch for the truth in it, but I found this to be funny. An article I read recently said that PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) had not copyrighted "PETA" acronym. By not doing so, it was left open to be used by any other group that might choose to copyright it.   And someone did, creating a PETA group (People Eating Tasty Animals). Supposedly the old peta is trying to force the new peta to relinquish the acronym. Whether true or not, it is humorous, and sums up my attitude towards PETA.

Response:

And someone did, creating a PETA group (People Eating Tasty Animals). Supposedly the old peta is trying to force the new peta to relinquish the acronym. Whether true or not, it is humorous, and sums up my attitude towards PETA.

It is true and there is a web page dedicated to it’s proliferation. I just can’t remember what it is though! Gary McMeekin

Response:

This may be old info, and I can’t vouch for the truth in it, but I found this to be funny. An article I read recently said that PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) had not copyrighted "PETA" acronym. By not doing so, it was left open to be used by any other group that might choose to copyright it.  

        (Snip)         How about ‘People Enraged at the Tactics of Assholes’?

Response:

Question:

Anyone know of a Horse/Burro Co. that bring folks into the Kings Canyon area of California?  Or maybe a suggested newsgroup I might try. Thanks. Randy Rose

Response:

Anyone know of a Horse/Burro Co. that bring folks into the Kings Canyon area of California?  

There are a number of pack stations that take people into Kings Cyn.  A few are actually in Kings Cyn. and Sequoia Parks and there are several on the east side off US Highway 395.  Best source of names and addresses are two publications from the Automobile Club of Southern Calif. (AAA):    1. The guide book "Sequoia and Kings Canyon National Parks"    2. The map "Guide to Eastern Sierra" BTW, the fishing, esp. fly fishing, on the small creeks early in the season and the So. Fork of the Kings in late summer and fall is among the best in Calif. and you don’t have to walk or ride very far to escape the crouds.

Response:

Question:

I just finished John Judy’s book on slack line presentation. It was reviewed in the lastest Fly Fisherman.  He talks about hinged nymphing and uses a 4′ft leader that he cuts from old tapered leaders.  Does anyone have a formula for putting one of these things together?  I build all my leaders and don’t have any old knotless leaders hanging around. Any comments on this type of nymphing?  Sounds interesting and I’m an awful nymph fisherman. dennis aebersold

Response:

: Any comments on this type of nymphing?  Sounds interesting : and I’m an awful nymph fisherman.         I haven’t used the type of nymphing that you are talking about, but if you are really a horrible nymph fisherman, you might try a short-line technique like we typically use on teh the South Platte here in CO.         The line is weighted about a foot above the fly with a small piece of lead and the rod is held straight out. You can use strike indicators on the leader to increase the probability of detecting a strike.  This makes its a lot easier to detect the little nibbles, and you end up catching a lot more fish…

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Briefly, the leader is tapered similarly to the normal leader but the tippet is fairly long.  The real issue here is the technique for working the fly.  It involves stacking.  After you cast the fly you ’snap’ what I call a micro mend that sends a small loop up your fly line and jerks indicator up stream.  This insures that the fly and weight are directly down stream from the indicator and line to insure that the drift is effected as little as possible by cross currents.  Then you shoot another series of two or three mends which should drop down right around the indicator.  This works similar to a birds nest in that it protects the indicator from dragging.  You then continue to shoot these mends to keep several with the indicator. This system is absolutely deadly when you are fishing water like the Big Horn or the Missouri where there are long glides.  Using this technique you can fish very small flies with relatively little weight.  You can fish these flies well away from you under high visibility conditions where a short line won’t work.  You can also get seventy foot plus drifts.  This is also important when fishing small flies where the current is not terribly fast.  Under these conditions short lining is a problem because aside from the problem of crowding the fish, you cannot get a long drift. I learned this technique from John Beard who is a master of this technique.  The secret is really all involved with sending those special mends.  It is really hard to describe and the best way to learn is to watch someone.  Also it is much easier to do this with heavier lines.  The heavier the easier having something to do with the lack of mass in smaller lines and air resistance. This is deadly on steelhead as well as trout.

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Question:

Here’s one for you: . . . I asked where he put his pole. He said:  "I dropped it in the lake" . . .

What I’ve done with my 5yo. girl is to tie a string on the pole with a loop in it, have her put her hand through the loop and make sure the loop is snug on her wrist.  This allow the pole to be still attached even if dropped. Rey

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: Well, it’s more wierd than humorous, and I didn’t think it was very funny : at the time, which was yesterday afternoon.  If my typing is lousy it’s : because I’ve got a big bandage on my left index finger.  You’ll soon see why. : : : The hook was imbedded good, down to the bone.  There was no pushing it : through, and anyway, I didn’t have any pliers to bend down or cut off the : barb.  So there I sat, shoeless, blood running down my hand, a 3" Rapala : lure dangling from my hand, half a mile from my car.  I managed somehow to : get the hook off the plit ring.  Then I put on my shoes (not so easy) got : my stuff together, walked to the car, and drove to a local medical : facility where the nurse practicioner managed to yank that hook from my : hand (ouch!).   : : Meanwhile she told me a story that made me feel lucky.  Just after she had : started practicing whe got a call telling her that a young girl was on her : way with a fish in her foot.  Apparently she had stepped on a small fish : and the bony fins had stuck well up into the ball of her foot and acted : like a barbed hook.  Her father had tried holding down the fish his foot : and pulling on her leg with his hands, but it wouldn’t budge.  Then he : tried putting her foot in the water so the fish could swim free, but it : couldn’t.  The fish apparently was still alive and flopping around when : they arrived at the clinic.  They had to slice open the little girls foot : to remove the fish. : : I left that clinic counting my blessings. : :  Jim : : : Worse thing I ever saw like this was at my vets.  A man came in literally : dragging a big black lab.  I couldn’t understand why he was treating the : dog like that until I saw the big rapala with one hook firmly imbedded in : the poor dog’s nose and the other hook imbedded in the man’s arm.  The : vet sedated the dog and removed both hooks.  I still shiver when I think : about that.         I’m not so sure you should have posted that as Humorous Stories. I have an inch  long scar on the palm of my left hand from much the same sort of story.         I got a 20+ lb. ling cod in the boat. He was hooked on a diamond jig with a 6/0  treble hook. He was twisted up in the net, and as I tried to get him out, he thrashed  around hard, driving one of the exposed hooks through the palm of my hand. I had a  fishing buddy with me, and he knelt on the head of the fish until I could work the lure  free with the needle nosed pliers. I had no cutters, and the hook was held on with a  soldered ring, so I couldn’t free it from the lure. We had to push the hook back through  and cut the palm through to the hooh shank to free me of the lure. All this while bouncing  around in six foot seas. Needless to say, the pain and bleeding were considerable. The  wound later took six stitches to close.         It was a painful leason. I use a gaff now on big fish. I use a wood bat to stop  them from thrashing around. I keep a pair of heavy duty diagonal cutters on my boat.  And several Tylonal & codine in the first aid kit.

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Well, it’s more wierd than humorous, and I didn’t think it was very funny at the time, which was yesterday afternoon.  If my typing is lousy it’s because I’ve got a big bandage on my left index finger.  You’ll soon see why. Wednesday evening I stopped in to a local sporting goods store and found that they were selling out they’re fishing gear–everything was half-off. I picked up 5 Original Rapala’s, a cheap Browning fly rod and a nice baitcasting combo including a Diawa EL 2 reel and a Browning graphite rod, all for $92 including tax (oh yeah, I also got 5 Hopkins spoons in various sizes).  So all day yesterday I was aching to try some of this stuff out. I finished everything I had to at work and headed down to a spot at a nearby lake just to cast a few times and get a feel for my new combo.  I hooked up one of the Rapala’s (#11 original floater) and cast it a few times, reeling in quckly and casting again, trying to find a good setting on the magnetic anti-backlash mexhanism.  I was reeling in fast enough that the lure was diving down a foot or two, and once it got stuck on a tree limb I couldn’t see through the murky water.  So I took off my shoes and waded out to recover the lure.  I got it, left my shoes off and cast again a few times–still just casting and reeling in, just to get some casting practice.  Then I felt the lure get hung up again, and I started to walk out to retrieve it when the tree limb started to move.  I set the hook and a tidal wave erupted from the water.  I fought that fish for every bit of ten minutes and finally landed a big carp.  It was every bit of 20 pounds, probably quite a bit more.  With some effort I dragged it up on shore, a good bodies length from the water (which is a long way), put down the reel and started to stagger up the rocky shoreline, shoeless, to get pliers out of my tackle box (initial attempts at removing the treble hook had failed.  He was lip-hooked, but those were serious lips. Two of the barbs were in his lip, and the third was trwisted into a cross).  I got the tackle box, walked back to where the fish was.  When he saw me he made two big lunges and was in the water, still hooked.  I barely managed to snag the rod.  I fought him again (I’d've let him go, but I wasn’t gonna let him have my new Rapala) for about 5 minutes, landed him again, opened my tackle box and found that my pliers were missing.  I’d apparently left them out when I cleaned my tackle box the last time.  So I got out a rag, held the fish firmly with one hand and worked on the hook with the other. I wasn’t having much luck, so I let go of the fish and started working with both hands.  After about a minute the fish gave a massive flip, imbedded another hook in my left index finger, and used that leverage to do in half a second what I’d been unable to do in the previous 15 minutes–get the hook out of his lip.  In the meantime he had straightened out the hook in my finger.  The fish gave a lunge and was gone.  He’d gotten me back. The hook was imbedded good, down to the bone.  There was no pushing it through, and anyway, I didn’t have any pliers to bend down or cut off the barb.  So there I sat, shoeless, blood running down my hand, a 3" Rapala lure dangling from my hand, half a mile from my car.  I managed somehow to get the hook off the plit ring.  Then I put on my shoes (not so easy) got my stuff together, walked to the car, and drove to a local medical facility where the nurse practicioner managed to yank that hook from my hand (ouch!).   Meanwhile she told me a story that made me feel lucky.  Just after she had started practicing whe got a call telling her that a young girl was on her way with a fish in her foot.  Apparently she had stepped on a small fish and the bony fins had stuck well up into the ball of her foot and acted like a barbed hook.  Her father had tried holding down the fish his foot and pulling on her leg with his hands, but it wouldn’t budge.  Then he tried putting her foot in the water so the fish could swim free, but it couldn’t.  The fish apparently was still alive and flopping around when they arrived at the clinic.  They had to slice open the little girls foot to remove the fish. I left that clinic counting my blessings.         Jim By the way: my Audobon Field Guide says that the classification of fish that included carp and minnows (I can’t remember what it’s called) is charactized by "the absence of teeth in the jaw".  This fish definitely had some rather nasty looking teeth.  Skinny, about an eighth inch long. But I’d say it had to be a carp, since it was huge and had those characteristic barbels on its jaw.  What gives?

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: What I’ve done with my 5yo. girl is to tie a string on the pole : with a loop in it, have her put her hand through the loop and make : sure the loop is snug on her wrist.  This allow the pole to be : still attached even if dropped. : Rey All of this talk reminded me of one of my earliest memories.  We were living in Florida, which means I was no older than 4.  We were fishing on my father’s boat, and I was using a zebco or something, and I don’t know what we were after, but we were offshore.  I was in the front of the boat, and I had a strike.  Unfortunately, the drag was set real tight.  The fish dove down, and I started screaming for my father.  I held onto that rod for as long as I could, but the fish would definitely have won the tug-o-war.  I let the rod go just as my father made it up- he almost caught it.  I was so sad about it, and it must have made an impression if I remembered it all these years.           Moral of the story:  Just hope your 5 year old girl doesn’t tie into a 10 pound catfish or something.  Or make sure the drag is set right. -Jeff

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, it’s more wierd than humorous, and I didn’t think it was very funny at the time, which was yesterday afternoon.  If my typing is lousy it’s because I’ve got a big bandage on my left index finger.  You’ll soon see why. The hook was imbedded good, down to the bone.  There was no pushing it through, and anyway, I didn’t have any pliers to bend down or cut off the barb.  So there I sat, shoeless, blood running down my hand, a 3" Rapala lure dangling from my hand, half a mile from my car.  I managed somehow to get the hook off the plit ring.  Then I put on my shoes (not so easy) got my stuff together, walked to the car, and drove to a local medical facility where the nurse practicioner managed to yank that hook from my hand (ouch!).   Meanwhile she told me a story that made me feel lucky.  Just after she had started practicing whe got a call telling her that a young girl was on her way with a fish in her foot.  Apparently she had stepped on a small fish and the bony fins had stuck well up into the ball of her foot and acted like a barbed hook.  Her father had tried holding down the fish his foot and pulling on her leg with his hands, but it wouldn’t budge.  Then he tried putting her foot in the water so the fish could swim free, but it couldn’t.  The fish apparently was still alive and flopping around when they arrived at the clinic.  They had to slice open the little girls foot to remove the fish. I left that clinic counting my blessings.    Jim

Worse thing I ever saw like this was at my vets.  A man came in literally dragging a big black lab.  I couldn’t understand why he was treating the dog like that until I saw the big rapala with one hook firmly imbedded in the poor dog’s nose and the other hook imbedded in the man’s arm.  The vet sedated the dog and removed both hooks.  I still shiver when I think about that.

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  Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing  RE: Humorous fishing stories.  Here’s one for you:  This happened about three years ago-my little boy who was 4 at the time  was turning into quite the "fishing fool".  Life revolved around  fishing, and thankfully, still does.  Anyway, we were camping at a  secluded lake here in western Montana, and decided to go fishing one  evening after dark in the canoe.  We set up a couple of poles with  worms and a small marshmallow for floatation and a slip sinker.  We  went out in the bay about 50-60 yds from the 3-4 campsites  available-which were all full.  It wasn’t long before the silence and  serenity was broken several times by "I got one!!!".  I’d slide forward  in the canoe to help Chris check his line, only to find nothing there.  We’d then go through the procedure of reeling in, checking bait (which  was still there), and lowering it back down.  This probably continued  for about 20-25 minutes, and I was getting a little tempermental about  the whole program, and was ready to head back in.  Meanwhile, everyone  on shore could hear what was going on, and I’d hear laughter as he  hollared, followed by my explanations of how to tell whether a fish is  really biting (patience level was growing thin).  As I was ready to start paddling back to shore, once again he hollared  "I got one".   "Sure", I said.  "Just reel in, and we’ll try again in the morning".   "No, I REALLY have one this time".  (Laughter from shore).   "Christopher, you keep saying that, and we reel in, and your worm is   still on there", I said not so patiently.   About that time, I could see the outline of his Zebco rod and reel   silhouetted in the campfires from shore.  Sure enough, it was doubled   over and jerking frantically.   "Oh, sh__, you’ve got a fish on!", I exclaimed, as I clamored forward   to help him steady his pole.    After a five minute fight, Chris reeled in a 5 lb. bull trout.  As    the cheers subsided from shore, and I paddled in, Chris turned to me    and said "See, dad, when I say I got a fish on, I MEAN I got a fish    on.  You should listen to me".    Laughter erupted from the camps. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

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Here’s one for you: I took my 8 and 5 year olds out perch fishing last summer. Well you know what kind of fishing that is for me, but I don’t mind, its getting out with the boys.  I was in the middle of a couple of hours of taking off fish and baiting hooks, and was working with my 8 year old for a minute.  When I finished I looked back around at Paul my 5 year old and noticed he was just sitting there quietly.  All you people with kids know what a quiet kid means…… I asked him what was the matter and he said: "nothin" I then noticed he wasn’t holding his snoopy pole any more and asked why he wasn’t fishing.  he said: "don’t want to anymore" I asked where he put his pole. He said:  "I dropped it in the lake" His face went heavy and I asked why didn’t he tell me and he replied: "didn’t want to get in trouble." I didn’t know if I should laugh or cry.  Felt sorry for him and explained how fishermen ocassionally loose things, Not to worry and I rigged him up another rod, and back to fishing he went. we tried to fish out his pole, but the current had taken it away. another day, another hard lesson in the game of life for a 5 year old! Bob

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