Question:

    i think the problem lies with bad leader material.  leaders "age", and become absurdly brittle and weak, even in packaging.  the damn stuff has probably been on the shelf at wallyworld for five or six years.  go to a decent specialty shop and get new leader material.     otherwise, i think it’s your knots.  i have desperately tried to snap flies off on the back cast, and i just can’t do it.  hell, maybe you just have a special talent…

Excuse me, may I help you?  Oh, I see.  Well, you turned left into "Leader Minutia" by mistake.  Go back down the hallway you came up, make a left by the drinking fountain, head for the sign that says "Actually Fishing Outdoors", and then past the restrooms, and right into "Turning A Nice Phrase".  Don’t mention it, have a nice day.

Response:

 Check your leader often, especially if you see a messy cast.

hmmm….this will be bad news for anyone fishing with me… you boys’ll be doin a whole lot of leader checks… jeff (purely messy)

Response:

…from my experience, cloning ain’t required…damned things are everywhere already…and around water? well, you probably haven’t seen the movie and don’t know the reproductive methods of gremlins, but…let’s just say it doesn’t look good for fisherpeople… jeff (creator of "the gremlin defense" – royalties required, unauthorized use or duplication will be punishable by law, bycracky) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … gremlins…….caught a glimpse of one once…looked sorta like a tiny waldo-wolfgang thing….. Nasty little buggers from all I’ve heard. Wolfgang and the BAD news is we got the technology to clone!      

Response:

It might be that the back cast is low enough to actually hit the water or the ground, then there’s no need for special talents to break off the fly. Most of the guys that I’ve helped with their casting technique had one common problem, their back cast was way too low. But for this problem to appear again and again, I would also guess that the leader is the problem. /Roger

I agree with both points. I have occasionally broken the hook off the fly by letting it hit the rocks behind me. What really makes that a great trick is to continue fishing with the hookless fly. Makes it a bit more of a sporting challenge! Bob — http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/

Response:

By the way, I live in McKinney about 30 miles or so north of Dallas. Thanks again, Nick Wright

Dale gave you an excellent tip re: the FWFF event in September, and what sounded suspiciously like an invite to Backwoods for the Roadkill Roundup.  You could gain quite a bit by attending either, and moreso by attending both.  If you’d like, drop me an email, and I’ll try to provide as much "local" info as I can. TC, R

Response:

Check your leader often, especially if you see a messy cast. Remove the overhand knots before they tighten.  Don’t delay cutting knots out of the leader and rebuilding it.

Great advice! I saved a lot of time and frustration once I started noticing my messy casts right away and dealing with it before it became an unmanageable mess.  You can untangle things (usually) fairly easily if you stop casting right away. A guide told me the minute rule (ok, maybe 30 seconds)…if you can’t fix it in under (a minute), then cut and redo… you’ll save time, be happier and get your fly on the water… which is the only way you can catch fish. — Rob (of course, fixing messy casting is another problem alltogether…)

Response:

Nick,     Ssounds to me like the whole outfit has been sitting around for a long time…I don’t know why floating line would sink rapidly unless it was old…..Also, there are several sites you can visit to learn to tie different types of knots, buy books, post messages, buy equipment, etc. http://www.flyanglersonline.com/   they have a beginners’ section http://www.thejump.net/fishing/fishing.html  fishin’ knots & other things And here are some links that may be helpful: http://flyfishing.miningco.com/ http://www.njflyfishing.com/ http://www.roundrocks.com/rocks/html/misc.html I’m sure all the others here can also help you a lot…keep at it, ask a lot of questions & PRACTICE!!! Graden

Response:

… gremlins…….caught a glimpse of one once…looked sorta like a tiny waldo-wolfgang thing…..

Nasty little buggers from all I’ve heard. Wolfgang and the BAD news is we got the technology to clone!      

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Could it be that you’re snapping the fly off on the backcast? If you put too much energy into it you can crack the line like a whip, and the fly goes hell knows where. Bob Just what I was thinking.  Put a little mark with a marker on the knot and tippet just above the fly to determine if this is happening if you can’t easily tell.  Does it appear, by looking at the tippet end, if the knot is untying, or is the end, once the fly is gone, a "clean" end? Where in N. Texas are you located?  If you’re near the DFW area, there are a number of instructors (Main Street Outfitters, in FW, for one), and a couple of FFing clubs that might provide some help.  IMO, instruction, particularly professional instruction, will provide dividends beyond the cost incurred (see a recent related thread on this very topic).  If you are comfortable with doing so, reply with a general location – there are several regulars in the general Fort Worth-Dallas <G area. TC, R

Thanks for all the advice. Thinking back on it, this may very well be what I was doing. I had not thought about it before. But that would explain why the leader looked as though it had been cut rather than the knot simply coming undone. I’m going to get all new line for my rod. The "floating fly line" that came with it sinks very rapidly, and it did not come with backing. So I’ll buy some new lines and leaders (hopefully this will help a little) and I’ll continue practicing my casting. Another question semi-related. I’m going to buy the leaders that come tapered instead of tying my own, in this case how necessary is it to have a tippet? By the way, I live in McKinney about 30 miles or so north of Dallas. Thanks again, Nick Wright

Response:

Another question semi-related. I’m going to buy the leaders that come tapered instead of tying my own, in this case how necessary is it to have a tippet?

Knotless tapered leaders are good, but you will definitely need to get some tippet.  Every time you tie on a fly you’re going to lose some material and by tying on some tippet you can delay replacing the leader.  I remember when I was starting out – I ended up changing leaders quite often until I solved my tailing loops (if you see lots of overhand knots all through your leader you are throwing a tailing loop) in which case adding tippet is not as big an issue<g.  Check your leader often, especially if you see a messy cast. Remove the overhand knots before they tighten.  Don’t delay cutting knots out of the leader and rebuilding it. What length and weight leader/tippet to use is an important question.  For most of the fishing I do (panfish, small bass, small trout) I get by with a 7 foot 4x tapered leader with 4x and/or 5x tippet added on.  I carry spools or 4x through 7x tippet for modifying the end of the leader as needed. –Stan

Response:

As a newbie of one year My most difficult time learning  was trying to forget I didn’t have a spinning rod with weights Easy does it grasshopper. Let the rod and line do the work — Fly Fisherman With a Furless Naked Cat named Dub.

Response:

that come tapered instead of tying my own, in this case how necessary is it to have a tippet? By the way, I live in McKinney about 30 miles or so north of Dallas.

I live in Plano. You need to buy a spool of tippet material. When fishing for bluegill around here I simply buy a 7.5 foot tapered 3x leader and immediately tie on a couple of feet of 4x tippet material. The waters we fish have so much stuff growing in the water that you gather a bowl of salad on each knott on a regular basis. By the time you leave a couple of flies in trees and snap a couple of flies off on the casts and change flies a couple of times you will need to replace the tippet with another couple of feet of tippet. It is no problem as a roll of tippet material lasts for a couple of years anyway and it is a good idea to replace it every couple of years anyway. BTW the Roadkill Roundtable meets each Saturday morning to tie flies and tell lies at Backwoods in the southeast corner of Campbell and Coit in Richardson. Come join us for a bs session anytime you want.We are a kind of a splinter group of The Dallas Flyfisher Club and the guys that work at the shop are always available to answer any questions. Ron manages the shop and Marshal works there and they are very knowledgable. Big Dale

Response:

nick – you’ve gotten plenty of good opinions, but you’ll soon discover the truth… gremlins.  damn things been plaguing all aspects of my flyfishing.  caught a glimpse of one once…looked sorta like a tiny waldo-wolfgang thing. they can tie knots in the tippet, snag flies in trees, pull rod tips into closing doors or ceiling fans, push you down into the water in front of your fishing companions just as you’re stepping into a stream…oh the horrors you’re in for now!!  you’ll love every moment – well, most of em. (my opinion… big fly, light or bad tippet, too powerful snapping and too soon on the forward casting stroke.) jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, my name is Nick I live in North Texas. My wife recently bought me the little $20 kit from WalMart since I’ve been wanting to try flyfishing. I’ve just about got the knack of fly casting (at least short distances), by practicing in my yard with a small piece of cloth tied on. My question is this, I took it out to the water tonight to give it a "real world" go and I ran into a problem. The flies would not stay tied to the leader. I tried the improved clinch and also the double clinch and without fail after about 5-6 casts the fly would be gone. I know that I’m tying these knots correctly. So I’m wondering where the problem can be? The little piece of cloth I’ve used for practice never once came off. Is it possible that the leader that came with the kit is either just really bad or possibly really old? Will getting a new leader solve my problem? Or are clinch knots not the proper way to tie on? Thanks for any advice. Nick Wright

Response:

Hello, my name is Nick I live in North Texas. My wife recently bought me the little $20 kit from WalMart since I’ve been wanting to try flyfishing. I’ve just about got the knack of fly casting (at least short distances), by practicing in my yard with a small piece of cloth tied on. My question is this, I took it out to the water tonight to give it a "real world" go and I ran into a problem. The flies would not stay tied to the leader. I tried the improved clinch and also the double clinch and without fail after about 5-6 casts the fly would be gone. I know that I’m tying these knots correctly. So I’m wondering where the problem can be? The little piece of cloth I’ve used for practice never once came off. Is it possible that the leader that came with the kit is either just really bad or possibly really old? Will getting a new leader solve my problem? Or are clinch knots not the proper way to tie on? Thanks for any advice. Nick Wright

Response:

Could it be that you’re snapping the fly off on the backcast? If you put too much energy into it you can crack the line like a whip, and the fly goes hell knows where. Bob — http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, my name is Nick I live in North Texas. My wife recently bought me the little $20 kit from WalMart since I’ve been wanting to try flyfishing. I’ve just about got the knack of fly casting (at least short distances), by practicing in my yard with a small piece of cloth tied on. My question is this, I took it out to the water tonight to give it a "real world" go and I ran into a problem. The flies would not stay tied to the leader. I tried the improved clinch and also the double clinch and without fail after about 5-6 casts the fly would be gone. I know that I’m tying these knots correctly. So I’m wondering where the problem can be? The little piece of cloth I’ve used for practice never once came off. Is it possible that the leader that came with the kit is either just really bad or possibly really old? Will getting a new leader solve my problem? Or are clinch knots not the proper way to tie on? Thanks for any advice. Nick Wright

Response:

Could it be that you’re snapping the fly off on the backcast? If you put too much energy into it you can crack the line like a whip, and the fly goes hell knows where. Bob

Just what I was thinking.  Put a little mark with a marker on the knot and tippet just above the fly to determine if this is happening if you can’t easily tell.  Does it appear, by looking at the tippet end, if the knot is untying, or is the end, once the fly is gone, a "clean" end? Where in N. Texas are you located?  If you’re near the DFW area, there are a number of instructors (Main Street Outfitters, in FW, for one), and a couple of FFing clubs that might provide some help.  IMO, instruction, particularly professional instruction, will provide dividends beyond the cost incurred (see a recent related thread on this very topic).  If you are comfortable with doing so, reply with a general location – there are several regulars in the general Fort Worth-Dallas <G area. TC, R

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, my name is Nick I live in North Texas. My wife recently bought me the little $20 kit from WalMart since I’ve been wanting to try flyfishing. I’ve just about got the knack of fly casting (at least short distances), by practicing in my yard with a small piece of cloth tied on. My question is this, I took it out to the water tonight to give it a "real world" go and I ran into a problem. The flies would not stay tied to the leader. I tried the improved clinch and also the double clinch and without fail after about 5-6 casts the fly would be gone. I know that I’m tying these knots correctly. So I’m wondering where the problem can be? The little piece of cloth I’ve used for practice never once came off. Is it possible that the leader that came with the kit is either just really bad or possibly really old? Will getting a new leader solve my problem? Or are clinch knots not the proper way to tie on? Thanks for any advice. Nick Wright

Most likely you are snapping them off.  Untutored beginners frequently show a natural tendency to crack a fly line like a whip.  The correction is a matter of timing.  You are probably starting the forward cast too early and overpowering it, causing the fly to accelerate to supersonic speed in a small fraction of a second….more stress than the tippet can handle.  It didn’t happen with the piece of cloth because it’s greater air resistance simply wouldn’t allow that kind of acceleration.  Watch you back cast.  Don’t start the forward motion until the line extends completely to the rear. If possible, get an experienced caster to coach you.  If not, take lessons or rent videos and practice, practice, practice. Wolfgang

Response:

"Wolfgang Siebeneich" Most likely you are snapping them off.  Untutored beginners frequently show a natural tendency to crack a fly line like a whip.  The correction is a matter of timing.  You are probably starting the forward cast too early and overpowering it, causing the fly to accelerate to supersonic speed in a small fraction of a second….more stress than the tippet can handle.  It didn’t happen with the piece of cloth because it’s greater air resistance simply wouldn’t allow that kind of acceleration.  Watch you back cast.  Don’t start the forward motion until the line extends completely to the rear. If possible, get an experienced caster to coach you.  If not, take lessons or rent videos and practice, practice, practice.

I had virtually the same thing written out to send and then thought I’d check and see if it was already in the thread. What he said! Clark

Response:

Could it be that you’re snapping the fly off on the backcast? If you put too much energy into it you can crack the line like a whip, and the fly goes hell knows where. Bob

Good advice. Is it possible that the leader that came with the kit is either just really bad or possibly really old? Will getting a new leader solve my problem? Or are clinch knots not the proper way to tie on? Thanks for any advice.

The leader could weak. If in doubt, you don’t have to buy a new leader. Buy a spool of 5x tippet and learn to tie about a 18" to 24" piece onto the leader with a double surgeon’s knot. You should be doing that anyway. Cut the leader back to a thicker diameter first. It wouldn’t hurt to replace the whole leader, though. Did you say you paid $20 for this outfit? A decent store-bought leader will cost a quarter of that, but you can tie up your own, after spending more than $20 on materials. Then you can look into buying fly-tying materials, and then you can build your own rods. Eventually, you might build a drift boat and even knit your own waders. The possibilities are endless.

Response:

Hello, my name is Nick I live in North Texas. My wife recently bought me the little $20 kit from WalMart

    i think the problem lies with bad leader material.  leaders "age", and become absurdly brittle and weak, even in packaging.  the damn stuff has probably been on the shelf at wallyworld for five or six years.  go to a decent specialty shop and get new leader material.     otherwise, i think it’s your knots.  i have desperately tried to snap flies off on the back cast, and i just can’t do it.  hell, maybe you just have a special talent… wayno

Response:

I’ve seen a lot of people do it Wayne. But I agree, the leader is probably shot which exasperates the problem. Clark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, my name is Nick I live in North Texas. My wife recently bought me the little $20 kit from WalMart     i think the problem lies with bad leader material.  leaders "age", and become absurdly brittle and weak, even in packaging.  the damn stuff has probably been on the shelf at wallyworld for five or six years.  go to a decent specialty shop and get new leader material.     otherwise, i think it’s your knots.  i have desperately tried to snap flies off on the back cast, and i just can’t do it.  hell, maybe you just have a special talent… wayno

Response:

It might be that the back cast is low enough to actually hit the water or the ground, then there’s no need for special talents to break off the fly. Most of the guys that I’ve helped with their casting technique had one common problem, their back cast was way too low. But for this problem to appear again and again, I would also guess that the leader is the problem. /Roger

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, my name is Nick I live in North Texas. My wife recently bought me the little $20 kit from WalMart     i think the problem lies with bad leader material.  leaders "age", and become absurdly brittle and weak, even in packaging.  the damn stuff has probably been on the shelf at wallyworld for five or six years.  go to a decent specialty shop and get new leader material.     otherwise, i think it’s your knots.  i have desperately tried to snap flies off on the back cast, and i just can’t do it.  hell, maybe you just have a special talent… wayno

Response:

I don’t know where you live in North Texas, but you might want to check out an event that the Fort Worth FlyFishers Club is involved with that will happen on Sept 21. It is called the Trinity FlyFest and it will include casting lessons. For more information go to WWW. FortWorth FlyFishers.com. The Dallas club does not have an event scheuled in the near future which includes fly casting lessons because our next event is our annual club auction on Sept.21. You might just t ask at the Dallas Orvis Store. There is usualy someone there that will give any customer some casting tips and demonstration  in their parking lot. It is a lot easier to work these kind of problems in person rather than on the net. Contact me if I can be any help. Big Dale  

Response:

Question:

Chaps             I live in the Aylesbury  /  Oxford area, and I’m seeking people’s recommendations re small still waters in this area. I have visited but not fished Vicarage Spinney and Barnes Lakes.  I have fished Church Hill and Lakeside, as well as Alders Farm. I DON"T WANT TO HEAR PEOPLE"S OPINIONS RE CONCRETE BOWL RESERVOIRES, thank you My favourite water is John O’Gaunt in Hampshire, but it’s too far aay for a day trip. I’d like to find something like JOG, but closer to home, say 30-40 mins drive max,  I want to fish, not drive, as a hobby. If anyone can recommend a good venue, I’d be very grateful, and maybe even see you there sometime. There are too few good venues around here, and I only have "Trout Fisherman" guide to go by, which is OK but a bit limited. So ??  please come back to me if you’ve a secret haunt you’d be willing to share, best wishes,

Response:

You are welcome to Join me ( as a guest for

Question:

Nah, If you were really Welsh we wouldn’t have understood a thing you said! ) — Wayne (the Welsh invented Welshe’s Grape Juice….now, the Scotch on the other hand, made themselves useful!!!) To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

I’m Welsh, and from your comments – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – above, Wales doesn’t exist! Seriously the Foot & Mouth epidemic is causing us a lot of problems.  I have organised a day out for a group of disabled anglers next week, and as the access to the fishery is via a farm, the outing has been cancelled.  Most public rights of way are closed. Some closures may seem a bit "knee-jerk", but F & M is serious, so we’ll put up with the inconvenience. I’m sure there are contingency plans for the admission of people (not just anglers) to the USA. — Bill Grey http://www.billboy.co.uk

Response:

Wayne (the Welsh invented Welshe’s Grape Juice….now, the Scotch on the other hand, made themselves useful!!!)

They invented tape? ,      - Ken

Response:

Nah, If you were really Welsh we wouldn’t have understood a thing you said!

ROTFL — Bill Grey http://www.billboy.co.uk

Response:

Christopher Thomas emigrated to the colonies around 1634, from County Cairmarthen.  His parents were Tristram and Elizabeth Thomas.  I am not implying that you should have known any of these folk. <BG

Well, I live about half an hour from Carmarthen Town, of course the county is considerably larger. Thomas is quite a common name in Wales, though I’m surprised to hear the name Tristram as far back as 1634. — Bill Grey http://www.billboy.co.uk

Response:

Let’s just say we’re talking after W.W. II and before the end of the Vietnam War.  Those 9 cases were where?

Before 1929, when the last was reported (as of that edition).  There were cases, 1 in Mexico and 1 in Canada, in the fifties that resulted in border quarantines.  If there were experiments with it pre-1975 and let’s say, for argument’s sake, post Dien Bien Phu, I’d suspect these were to release on SE Asia to mess up the buf population.  I just don’t see it being as that big an issue in the US (well, really, as a current naturally-active virus, anywhere in the Americas, a few parts of SA excepted, and as a weapon, the possible exception of parts of Mexico and CA) anymore.  Plus, it can be vacc’ed out. There are numerous reasons UK and Continental herds seem to get hit with this type of thing (or MCD, etc.), and some of it herd management practices, but some is space-related, and perhaps surprisingly, some is actually caused by the EU and politics. IMO, ranching practices in the Americas are such that it could and would be quickly contained because it would start and initially remain highly localized.  It could be economically bad for industry segments, but it wouldn’t cause a total collapse of the food supply, nor a strain on the agricultural output because of the extremely limited use of working cattle. TC, R

Response:

Richard, did you receive the e-mail I sent you of the leather fly wallet a week of so ago?  If so, was it similar to the one that you have? — Opie  –Planning for the Past–

Response:

Richard, did you receive the e-mail I sent you of the leather fly wallet a week of so ago?  If so, was it similar to the one that you have?

Well, you obviously didn’t get my response <G.  Yes, I did, and thanks – I sent you an email in response, but our ISP was purchased by Prodigy, and we have been going through the "take-over" process, so I’m not 100% certain of what gets to me or out on this account. Anyway, I had some questions and possible info, so when I can get back to the msg. I sent, I’ll resend.  Basically, it appears similar, but it was hard to tell, sorry.  IIRC, you were wondering about age, as well, and based on what I can deduce from my situation, mine is from the very late 1800’s or first quarter of the 1900’s.  As of yet, I haven’t gathered any real history on mine.  Was your dad able to shed any further light on yours? Along the same, er,  "lines" <G:  Willi, if you read this, where are we on the "conversation" resend and have you gotten the NL from OGJ? I hadn’t heard either way. TC, R

Response:

As widespread as this tragedy is, it appears the whole country is under seige.  People are being arrested for possible quarantine violations and a sense of panic emerges.  The last outbreak in the early 90’s didn’t get quite so much attention here in the US as this one.  I think public awareness of HaM as a bio-warfare agent is greater.  We can only hope this comes under control quickly. — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

Response:

"Tragedy"  is not really the right word in my opinion.  This and other similar things are simply the result of pre-programmed catastrophes waiting to happen.   Keeping massive quantities of livestock in unsuitable conditions, feeding them on questionable substances, well laced with all sorts of growth hormones, including various other wide-band medication, legal and otherwise, all in the name of profit. Is the main reason for such outbreaks. Couple this with the "free-trade" in such stuff, and you have the perfect scenario for a catastrophe. The only thing that really surprises me is that we do not have a lot more of the same, especially considering the conditions and circumstances in which other animals are kept and raised.  To call this "farming" is a sad joke. Perhaps our tofu days are nearer than we think? TL MC — "Curiosity is not necessarily a sign of intelligence" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As widespread as this tragedy is, it appears the whole country is under seige.  People are being arrested for possible quarantine violations and a sense of panic emerges.  The last outbreak in the early 90’s didn’t get quite so much attention here in the US as this one.  I think public awareness of HaM as a bio-warfare agent is greater.  We can only hope this comes under control quickly. — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

Response:

Bill, my dad has said that his side of the family are of Welsh/Irish decent. I believe it was my paternal Grandmother’s family.  They are Thomas’.  My paternal Grandfather was a Bowen–as, DUH– and they were from Ireland.  Do you know any Thomas’?  I believe we are descended from the Christopher Thomas line.  Christopher Thomas emigrated to the colonies around 1634, from County Cairmarthen.  His parents were Tristram and Elizabeth Thomas.  I am not implying that you should have known any of these folk. <BG Mark Harrington Bowen  a/k/a The Postmaster

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes With the outbreak of hoof and mouth disease in England, Scotland, and Ireland, closurers of farmland to hikers are taking place.  What will be the impact on fishermen of these closurers for the immediate future and will the approaching spring season be endangered by events?  This brings into question whether fly fishermen from infected regions should be permitted into the US to fish US waters.  I fish a spring creek where fishermen are in close proximity to cattle. I’m not going to answer, because I’m Welsh, and from your comments above, Wales doesn’t exist! Seriously the Foot & Mouth epidemic is causing us a lot of problems.  I have organised a day out for a group of disabled anglers next week, and as the access to the fishery is via a farm, the outing has been cancelled.  Most public rights of way are closed. Some closures may seem a bit "knee-jerk", but F & M is serious, so we’ll put up with the inconvenience. I’m sure there are contingency plans for the admission of people (not just anglers) to the USA. — Bill Grey http://www.billboy.co.uk

Response:

Dad said he believed that the wallet came from either England or Scotland, due to the no. marking and that he believed it to have been made about the same time period as you stated for yours. Opie  –Planning for the Past–

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, you obviously didn’t get my response <G.  Yes, I did, and thanks – –snippage… IIRC, you were wondering about age, as well, and based on what I can deduce from my situation, mine is from the very late 1800’s or first quarter of the 1900’s.   TC, R

Response:

writes With the outbreak of hoof and mouth disease in England, Scotland, and Ireland, closurers of farmland to hikers are taking place.  What will be the impact on fishermen of these closurers for the immediate future and will the approaching spring season be endangered by events?  This brings into question whether fly fishermen from infected regions should be permitted into the US to fish US waters.  I fish a spring creek where fishermen are in close proximity to cattle.

I’m not going to answer, because I’m Welsh, and from your comments above, Wales doesn’t exist! Seriously the Foot & Mouth epidemic is causing us a lot of problems.  I have organised a day out for a group of disabled anglers next week, and as the access to the fishery is via a farm, the outing has been cancelled.  Most public rights of way are closed. Some closures may seem a bit "knee-jerk", but F & M is serious, so we’ll put up with the inconvenience. I’m sure there are contingency plans for the admission of people (not just anglers) to the USA. — Bill Grey http://www.billboy.co.uk

Response:

As widespread as this tragedy is, it appears the whole country is under seige.  People are being arrested for possible quarantine violations and a sense of panic emerges.  The last outbreak in the early 90’s didn’t get quite so much attention here in the US as this one.  I think public awareness of HaM as a bio-warfare agent is greater.  We can only hope this comes under control quickly.

HUH!?  Foot and Mouth as a "bio-warfare agent?"  It really doesn’t affect the US, and it isn’t really fatal (OK, _maybe_ as some odd, hoping-for-damage form of "bio-terrorism"), but as warfare, it would be like one force sneezing on the other’s troops in battle and hoping they came down with really bad colds.  Are you sure you aren’t talking about anthrax?   TC, R

Response:

The first experiments were with hoof-and-mouth because of its dispersement properties.  It was believed an intensified and more virulent strain could be developed which would incapacitate enemy troops and have a short life span to permit rapid occupation. — Wayne (not that I have any knowledge of such development or dispersement experiments) To Fish is Human…To Release Divine! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – HUH!?  Foot and Mouth as a "bio-warfare agent?"  It really doesn’t affect the US, and it isn’t really fatal (OK, _maybe_ as some odd, hoping-for-damage form of "bio-terrorism"), but as warfare, it would be like one force sneezing on the other’s troops in battle and hoping they came down with really bad colds.  Are you sure you aren’t talking about anthrax? TC, R

Response:

The first experiments were with hoof-and-mouth because of its dispersement properties.  It was believed an intensified and more virulent strain could be developed which would incapacitate enemy troops and have a short life span to permit rapid occupation.

Um, are we talking WWI here (seriously)?  I can’t imagine using this virus, even "hopped" up (well, I guess it depends HOW hopped up).  I understand it just isn’t all that bad in its er, untampered-with form, as B/C’s go, and its danger in humans is even less than in bovine/ovine/equine pops.  It is basically non-existent in the US – most current RM texts that I have only give it a mention at best, but a early sixties edition of "Stockman’s" talks of 9 cases being reported in the US up to that point.  To the best of knowledge, I’ve never even seen it, in the US or otherwise.  It would seem its damage is mostly herd economics, rather than "danger" in the "mad cow" sense. TC, R

Response:

With the outbreak of hoof and mouth disease in England, Scotland, and Ireland, closurers of farmland to hikers are taking place.  What will be the impact on fishermen of these closurers for the immediate future and will the approaching spring season be endangered by events?  This brings into question whether fly fishermen from infected regions should be permitted into the US to fish US waters.  I fish a spring creek where fishermen are in close proximity to cattle. Wayne to fish is human….to release divine!!  —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web  —–   http://newsone.net/ — Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groups    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts

Response:

Practically all fishing is closed as of now. Most waters are closed, and will remain so for some time.  Access to farmland etc is also extremely restricted. Many measures are being implemented to prevent the spread of the disease. Experience suggests that most will be ineffective. This is unfortunate, but a fact. Attempting to stop the spread of such viral diseases in this day and age of extremely high traffic in all directions is more or less impossible. Transport mechanisms for these diseases are in any case not fully understood. If you need more info on this, there is plenty flying around.  Specific fishing info may be obtained from the groups: uk.rec.fishing.coarse uk.rec.fishing.game uk.rec.fishing sea One assumes that special disinfectionary measures will be introduced in many places, as is already implemented at channel crossings etc. Trucks are obliged to drive through disinfection troughs etc etc. Whether such measures prove effective is a moot point. It remains to be seen whether America and other countries implement specific measures. TL MC — "Curiosity is not necessarily a sign of intelligence" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – With the outbreak of hoof and mouth disease in England, Scotland, and Ireland, closurers of farmland to hikers are taking place.  What will be the impact on fishermen of these closurers for the immediate future and will the approaching spring season be endangered by events?  This brings into question whether fly fishermen from infected regions should be permitted into the US to fish US waters.  I fish a spring creek where fishermen are in close proximity to cattle. Wayne to fish is human….to release divine!!  —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the eb  —–   http://newsone.net/ — Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groups    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts made through NewsOne.Net violate posting guidelines, email

Response:

Let’s just say we’re talking after W.W. II and before the end of the Vietnam War.  Those 9 cases were where? — Wayne (just guessing at these dates and possible derivative strains) To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

Response:

Mike, we are all party to the development of cheap food production procedures, even unwittingly. I am not convinced that this is the problem at all. Frequent transportation IMO is more likely: why do sheep need to be transported to Germany, then on to Belgium and from there to Italy.? This is madness. Surely the most economical method would be to kill near origin and ship as carcases? It would remove all the suffering, too. Or does transportation attract a subsidy? I know for a fact that car panels, made in Shropshire are shipped to Italy for labelling, then reimported to the UK because they then gain a subsidy. What about all the pollution caused by the lorry transprot over those distances? All unneccessary. All part of the EC madness. Chris

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Tragedy"  is not really the right word in my opinion.  This and other similar things are simply the result of pre-programmed catastrophes waiting to happen.   Keeping massive quantities of livestock in unsuitable conditions, feeding them on questionable substances, well laced with all sorts of growth hormones, including various other wide-band medication, legal and otherwise, all in the name of profit. Is the main reason for such outbreaks. Couple this with the "free-trade" in such stuff, and you have the perfect scenario for a catastrophe.

Response:

Question:

 Anxious to try my new Diamondback All American 6.5 ft. 3 wt. rod I brought it into work today.  Fortunately I have a huge lake right out the back door of my office.  I don’t usually fish warm water but this was the first chance I would have to try the rod.  I started with a #16 Bead Head Hare’s Ear nymph.  The rod was a little slower than I remember it but felt great.  Line was a SA Mastery WF3F with about 4 ft. of the forward section removed.  I attached a Cortland loop tip and AirFlo 5 ft. light trout leader.  The tippet was 5X.  I felt the Fly Logic FLP 345 was a little heavy for the rod.  I will probably look for something lighter.  The cork was large for this small rod and filled my hand nicely.  The rod tip is soft enough to flip over just the tippet nicely and the butt has the stifness to pump out a 40 ft. cast effortlessly.  Diamondback uses unsanded blanks and first impression is of a rough finish.  Wrappings are well done in dark green and the rod has a pleasing appearance.  The ferrul lacks witness marks, I’ll remedy this later.  I threw the nymph and a #8 popper with rubber legs and hair tail in yellow (per Big Dale’s recommendation).  The rig let me pinpoint casts along the riprap to individual fish and gave me all the rod I needed for casts reaching beyond 50 feet into the lake. Considering I had my back against a steep bank and had to reach up to give the back cast room, I think this was excellent distance.  I don’t usually fish for bluegill but the little 1 and 2 pounders were a lot of fun on this rod.  As soon as I can get a weekend free I’m off to the mountain streams for some REAL fishing! — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

….  I don’t usually fish for bluegill but the little 1 and 2 pounders were a lot of fun on this rod.  As soon as I can get a weekend free I’m off to the mountain streams for some REAL fishing!

A 2 pound bluegill is NOT little and if you think there’s something more REAL than big bluegill on a 3wt, I can only surmise that you’ve suffered some sort of anal cranial inversion. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

 I don’t usually fish for bluegill but the little 1 and 2 pounders were a lot of fun on this rod.  As soon as I can get a weekend free I’m off to the mountain streams for some REAL fishing! A 2 pound bluegill is NOT little and if you think there’s something more REAL than big bluegill on a 3wt, I can only surmise that you’ve suffered some sort of anal cranial inversion.

I was about to say the same thing, but Ken beat me to it while I was looking up the Maryland state record bluegill.   It was 3 lb. 7 oz., caught in August 98.

Response:

"I don’t usually fish for bluegill but the little 1 and 2 pounders were a lot of fun on this rod.  As soon as I can get a weekend free I’m off to the mountain streams for some REAL fishing!" Gee Wayne, sorry you had to be stuck with such teeny,tiny fish to test the new rod.  Mostly it’s been my experience that those little ones just get hooked and give up right away- almost jump up on the bank to throw in the towel against one of those husky 3wt’s. BTW- mind sending along your business address if it wouldn’t be too much trouble, I don’t really have to take that trip to the AuSable – I mean it’s not written in stone or anything   Jim McCreary

Response:

I second that emotion, there ain’t nuthin much more fun than hit’n on a bunch of pound and half pumpkin seeds and blue gill on a 3wt. I’ll be doing it again in the morning. I enjoy both but don’t have the opportunity to really fish but maybe twice a year so I must REALLY fish each weekend. All in fun Jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  I don’t usually fish for bluegill but the little 1 and 2 pounders were a lot of fun on this rod.  As soon as I can get a weekend free I’m off to the mountain streams for some REAL fishing! A 2 pound bluegill is NOT little and if you think there’s something more REAL than big bluegill on a 3wt, I can only surmise that you’ve suffered some sort of anal cranial inversion. I was about to say the same thing, but Ken beat me to it while I was looking up the Maryland state record bluegill.   It was 3 lb. 7 oz., caught in August 98.

Response:

1 to 2 pound Bluegill !!!  WHERE ?  I NEED TO KNOW NOW !!! Bill

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I second that emotion, there ain’t nuthin much more fun than hit’n on a bunch of pound and half pumpkin seeds and blue gill on a 3wt. I’ll be doing it again in the morning. I enjoy both but don’t have the opportunity to really fish but maybe twice a year so I must REALLY fish each weekend. All in fun Jim  I don’t usually fish for bluegill but the little 1 and 2 pounders were a lot of fun on this rod.  As soon as I can get a weekend free I’m off to the mountain streams for some REAL fishing! A 2 pound bluegill is NOT little and if you think there’s something more REAL than big bluegill on a 3wt, I can only surmise that you’ve suffered some sort of anal cranial inversion. I was about to say the same thing, but Ken beat me to it while I was looking up the Maryland state record bluegill.   It was 3 lb. 7 oz., caught in August 98.

Response:

around 6 lbs. as I recall, caught last year. Jim

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -1 to 2 pound Bluegill !!!  WHERE ?  I NEED TO KNOW NOW !!! Bill I second that emotion, there ain’t nuthin much more fun than hit’n on a bunch of pound and half pumpkin seeds and blue gill on a 3wt. I’ll be doing it again in the morning. I enjoy both but don’t have the opportunity to really fish but maybe twice a year so I must REALLY fish each weekend. All in fun Jim  I don’t usually fish for bluegill but the little 1 and 2 pounders were a lot of fun on this rod.  As soon as I can get a weekend free I’m off to the mountain streams for some REAL fishing! A 2 pound bluegill is NOT little and if you think there’s something more REAL than big bluegill on a 3wt, I can only surmise that you’ve suffered some sort of anal cranial inversion. I was about to say the same thing, but Ken beat me to it while I was looking up the Maryland state record bluegill.   It was 3 lb. 7 oz., caught in August 98.

Response:

Bill, Lake Anna near Mineral Virginia.  I work at the nuclear power station on Lake Anna.  Our shoreline has areas of large rip-rap which grows VERY large bluegill and attracts a nice population of 1 to 3 pound bass as well.  I didn’t read the carp on a fly thread but we have 20 to 30 pounders in abundance ( our European members are having woodies by now). Wayne To fish is Human….To Release Divine.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -1 to 2 pound Bluegill !!!  WHERE ?  I NEED TO KNOW NOW !!! Bill

Response:

Bluegill is around 6 lbs. as I recall, caught last year.

Could someone please tell me why the hell I am going to Ennis next summer for the western clave when I could be going to South Carolina in a search for a six pound bluegill? Big Dale

Response:

Could someone please tell me why the hell I am going to Ennis next summer for the western clave when I could be going to South Carolina in a search for a six pound bluegill?

Because the NAACP has issued a tourism boycott of South Carolina ? Works for me. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Well let’s see, I have Virginia and South Carolina now.  Think I could make a weekend trip from Arizona? Times are getting desperate.  I got stuck in a job doing 65 hours per week and no weekends.  I decided an education was the only way out.  I just finished a BS degree in Information Systems and got certified in VB 6.0. Now if I can just find employment with weekends off I can chase those big Bluegill again.  Haven’t had a chance to breath in the last two years and if I don’t catch a good fish soon I’m going to lose it!  Major withdrawal symptoms taking effect. Bill

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bill, Lake Anna near Mineral Virginia.  I work at the nuclear power station on Lake Anna.  Our shoreline has areas of large rip-rap which grows VERY large bluegill and attracts a nice population of 1 to 3 pound bass as well.  I didn’t read the carp on a fly thread but we have 20 to 30 pounders in abundance ( our European members are having woodies by now). Wayne To fish is Human….To Release Divine. 1 to 2 pound Bluegill !!!  WHERE ?  I NEED TO KNOW NOW !!! Bill

Response:

Fish was caught using a fly rod, but he had a spinning reel on it dropping a jig into shore cover in a tailrace canal. It was an ugly damn thing but man was it big…. Jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bluegill is around 6 lbs. as I recall, caught last year. Could someone please tell me why the hell I am going to Ennis next summer for the western clave when I could be going to South Carolina in a search for a six pound bluegill? Big Dale

Response:

Sheesh Big Dale, I can’t even conjur up an image of a 6# bluegill, it gives me the shakes to imagine that monster on my 3 wt.  Can you say "into the backing"? :-0 Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RETIRED – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bluegill is around 6 lbs. as I recall, caught last year. Could someone please tell me why the hell I am going to Ennis next summer for the western clave when I could be going to South Carolina in a search for a six pound bluegill? Big Dale

Response:

Bill, it will come with time, I spent 20 yrs in the navy and had no time, I’m now 54 and have averaged 104 days per year on the water for the last four years. I don’t do weekends or windows anymore. Jim

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Well let’s see, I have Virginia and South Carolina now.  Think I could make a weekend trip from Arizona? Times are getting desperate.  I got stuck in a job doing 65 hours per week and no weekends.  I decided an education was the only way out.  I just finished a BS degree in Information Systems and got certified in VB 6.0. Now if I can just find employment with weekends off I can chase those big Bluegill again.  Haven’t had a chance to breath in the last two years and if I don’t catch a good fish soon I’m going to lose it!  Major withdrawal symptoms taking effect. Bill Bill, Lake Anna near Mineral Virginia.  I work at the nuclear power station on Lake Anna.  Our shoreline has areas of large rip-rap which grows VERY large bluegill and attracts a nice population of 1 to 3 pound bass as well.  I didn’t read the carp on a fly thread but we have 20 to 30 pounders in abundance ( our European members are having woodies by now). Wayne To fish is Human….To Release Divine. 1 to 2 pound Bluegill !!!  WHERE ?  I NEED TO KNOW NOW !!! Bill

Response:

i agree i might give up a few days of steelhead fishing for 6 pound bluegills!!! krombear I wonder if fish get thirsty

Response:

OK Guys, Come on down!  Access to this section of Lake Anna shoreline is with Virginia Power employee escort only.  I’ll lead the motorcade down to the parking area and assign beats to the fishermen.  At the recreation facility adjacent to the bluegill fishing we have restrooms, picnic shelters, grills, vollyball courts, and alcohol consumption is allowed.  Preferred beverages are Macallans and The Famous Grouse.  You buy. Wayne To Fish is Human….To Release Divine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "I don’t usually fish for bluegill but the little 1 and 2 pounders were a lot of fun on this rod.  As soon as I can get a weekend free I’m off to the mountain streams for some REAL fishing!" Gee Wayne, sorry you had to be stuck with such teeny,tiny fish to test the new rod.  Mostly it’s been my experience that those little ones just get hooked and give up right away- almost jump up on the bank to throw in the towel against one of those husky 3wt’s. BTW- mind sending along your business address if it wouldn’t be too much trouble, I don’t really have to take that trip to the AuSable – I mean it’s not written in stone or anything   Jim McCreary

Response:

OK Guys, Come on down!  Access to this section of Lake Anna shoreline is with Virginia Power employee escort only.  I’ll lead the motorcade down to the parking area and assign beats to the fishermen.  At the recreation facility adjacent to the bluegill fishing we have restrooms, picnic shelters, grills, vollyball courts, and alcohol consumption is allowed.  Preferred beverages are Macallans and The Famous Grouse.  You buy. Wayne To Fish is Human….To Release Divine.

An "ROFF ‘Gill Clave" in the making??  But will there be hats?? Little concerned ’bout those "glow in the dark" nuclear ‘gills though- is that what makes em so plentiful. Jim

Response:

… Little concerned ’bout those "glow in the dark" nuclear ‘gills though- is that what makes em so plentiful.

Don’t know anything about Lake Anna but here in central Illinois there’s a nuke plant on Clinton Lake and the warm water discharge does extend the growing season. Doesn’t make for more fish but bigger fish than you’d expect otherwise. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

You might even get to meet Strom himself, if you’re lucky enough to catch him between naps. jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Could someone please tell me why the hell I am going to Ennis next summer for the western clave when I could be going to South Carolina in a search for a six pound bluegill? Because the NAACP has issued a tourism boycott of South Carolina ? Yeah, but you’d get to hang out with people who voted for Strom Thurmond<g. — Charlie…

Response:

does anyone else think there may be a relationship between the "nuclear power plant" and the 3 lb bluegills???  wasn’t that a roger corman movie?? jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sheesh Big Dale, I can’t even conjur up an image of a 6# bluegill, it gives me the shakes to imagine that monster on my 3 wt.  Can you say "into the backing"? :-0 Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RETIRED Bluegill is around 6 lbs. as I recall, caught last year. Could someone please tell me why the hell I am going to Ennis next summer for the western clave when I could be going to South Carolina in a search for a six pound bluegill? Big Dale

Response:

Wayne, I’d be interested taking you up on your offer and coming up there, perhaps for a one-day deal sometime this winter. There’s plenty good bluegill fishing within a few blocks of my house, but it would be fun anyway. There are several of us close enough to make it up there and back in a single day–I’ll bet that Tom Brown and my buddy Bill Crone would come along, and perhaps some of the other NC ROFFians. Perhaps one of the days between Christmas and New Years… Is the fishing still decent at that time of year? Steve Zimmerman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK Guys, Come on down!  Access to this section of Lake Anna shoreline is with Virginia Power employee escort only.  I’ll lead the motorcade down to the parking area and assign beats to the fishermen.  At the recreation facility adjacent to the bluegill fishing we have restrooms, picnic shelters, grills, vollyball courts, and alcohol consumption is allowed.  Preferred beverages are Macallans and The Famous Grouse.  You buy.

Response:

Steve, If you want to do this, let me know.  My only hesitation is that this guy is also an engineer and he survived several days fishing with Walt earlier this year and seemingly, escaped unscathed.  I’ve never managed more than one day with Walt, and was scared, even then.  Hell, I think Marie liked him, too.  We gotta be careful, here….. Tom — Tom Brown The Signal Group Wake Forest, NC HEATHEN, n. A benighted creature who has the folly to worship something that he can see and feel.                – Ambrose Bierce: The Devil’s Dictionary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wayne, I’d be interested taking you up on your offer and coming up there, perhaps for a one-day deal sometime this winter. There’s plenty good bluegill fishing within a few blocks of my house, but it would be fun anyway. There are several of us close enough to make it up there and back in a single day–I’ll bet that Tom Brown and my buddy Bill Crone would come along, and perhaps some of the other NC ROFFians. Perhaps one of the days between Christmas and New Years… Is the fishing still decent at that time of year? Steve Zimmerman OK Guys, Come on down!  Access to this section of Lake Anna shoreline is with Virginia Power employee escort only.  I’ll lead the motorcade down to the parking area and assign beats to the fishermen.  At the recreation facility adjacent to the bluegill fishing we have restrooms, picnic shelters, grills, vollyball courts, and alcohol consumption is allowed.  Preferred beverages are Macallans and The Famous Grouse.  You buy.

Response:

"nuclear power plant" and the 3 lb bluegills???  wasn’t that a roger corman movie??

Made me think of a Simpson’s show when Bart caught a 3 eyed fish while fishing below the neclear power plant. Do any of those 3lb. fish have three eyes? Big Dale

Response:

"nuclear power plant" and the 3 lb bluegills???  wasn’t that a roger corman movie?? Made me think of a Simpson’s show when Bart caught a 3 eyed fish while fishing below the neclear power plant. Do any of those 3lb. fish have three eyes? Big Dale

Of course not…….but the bigger ones do have two tails. jim

Response:

Question:

hello- the deschutes can be tricky. one suggestion is to try to get a elks hair caddis to the fish working in back eddies. unless you are in a boat it can be tough getting a good drift-

snip Fishing from a floating devise is illegal on the lower Deschutes (below Warm Springs which includes Madras). Jim Jones For e-mail reply replace spam with sns

Response:

Elkhairs caddis work most all the time down from Warm Springs thru Maupin. I really love PMDs in the summer.  Sometimes they hatch so thick they cover you with a carpet of wings! Always take a variety of other mayfly. When the water is low I love the stimmulators. Bill

Response:

Two things: 1. It’s illegal to fish from a boat (the regs say "any floating device supporting the angler", or some such, ruling out rafts, pontoons, float tubes, … as well). A boat has the advantage of allowing you to cover more river, and to get to places which are difficult to reach on foot. 2. In general, you’ll have better luck with caddis larvae and pupae than with adults. I like to fish soft hacles or emergent sparkle pupae during a hatch… Stu – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hello- the deschutes can be tricky. one suggestion is to try to get a elks hair caddis to the fish working in back eddies. unless you are in a boat it can be tough getting a good drift- but if you can figure it out you will be rewarded. when nymphing be sure to get a drag free dead drift. i have only used floating lines on the deschutes so i can’t help with sinking line techniques. i’m pretty sure there is a flyshop in madras- you can ask them what nymphs are working best. in the past i have done well with an olive serendipity. be sure and be on the water at dusk- sometimes the fish go after the caddis flies and it can be a blast. greg

Response:

: hello- : the deschutes can be tricky. one suggestion is to try to get a : elks hair caddis to the fish working in back eddies. unless you : are in a boat it can be tough getting a good drift- but if you : can figure it out you will be rewarded. Ummm… perhaps I am mistaken, but I thought it was against the regs to fish from a boat on the Deschutes? — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

How do – Just wondering if anybody has some suggestions for working the Deschutes around Mecca Flats, in Eastern Oregon.  Dry vs Wet?  Floater vs sinker?  I’m relatively new to fly fishing, though no stranger to the NW river systems.  I was down there last weekend, and only brought in one trout.  I’m by no means discouraged, but want to file this away as a learning experience, and was wondering if any kind souls here could give an example of a ‘Deschutes Recipe for success’ for this time of year. I did have a great time, but it’s always better with more fish in the hand! Thanks, Adrian B.

Response:

Question:

I am in the market for a new pair of float tube fins to replace the ones I currently use – which are Caddis fins. The new fins I am interested in buying are something called Force Fin float tube fins. They are advertised as being 40 – 60 percent more efficient than the average float tube fins on the market today. Here are some of my questions: 1. Has anyone used Force Fin float tube fins and found them better than the ones they previously used. 2. Does anyone knows how many models they have. 3. Do they (Force Fin) have a web site? Don. "May the fish be with you"

Response:

I am in the market for a new pair of float tube fins to replace the ones I currently use – which are Caddis fins. The new fins I am interested in buying are something called Force Fin float tube fins. They are advertised as being 40 – 60 percent more efficient than the average float tube fins on the market today. Here are some of my questions: 1. Has anyone used Force Fin float tube fins and found them better than the ones they previously used.

Force fins are great if you have to hike in with them.  They are very light, and provide reasonable propulsion.   For most of my tubing, however, I use a longer, stiff scuba fin that gives me more power. 2. Does anyone knows how many models they have.

I think they have two, one fits all sizes, one comes in S, M. L. XL, etc. 3. Do they (Force Fin) have a web site?   Don’t know?

If you decide to buy them, I can put you in touch with someone who sells Force Fin cosmetic blems for a good price compared to full retail. John Woodling Sacramento, CA

Response:

I’ve been using mine for three or four years and have no complaints. I do believe they are a little more powerful than my previous standard fins, and they are a little bit easier to "walk" in. Hope this helps! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am in the market for a new pair of float tube fins to replace the ones I currently use – which are Caddis fins. The new fins I am interested in buying are something called Force Fin float tube fins. They are advertised as being 40 – 60 percent more efficient than the average float tube fins on the market today. Here are some of my questions: 1. Has anyone used Force Fin float tube fins and found them better than the ones they previously used. 2. Does anyone knows how many models they have. 3. Do they (Force Fin) have a web site? Don. "May the fish be with you"

Response:

Personally, if you are driving to the lake, or the walk is short, forget about anything but SCUBA PRO Jet fins.  With these large rubber fins you can tube for hours and hours and never tire.  Your maneuverablilty is unbelievable and best of all you can tube faster than most powerboats out there!!!

Response:

Hi Donald: I don’t know if it really matters, but Force Fins are scuba fins.   They’re not super big hits in the diving community though.  It’s either because they don’t work as well as regular fins or because they look plain weird. Either way, I use regular, Scuba Pro-like fins for both diving and tubing.

<snip The thing is – I don’t want to pay $100+ for a pair of Force Fin fins if it does not perform at least as good as a pair of scuba fins.

<snip

Response:

You may be right, I beginning to think that scuba fins are better than the Caddis fins, Flip fins, Force Fin fins, or any of the short float tube fins on the market today. One of the reasons I wanted to get a new pair of float tube fins is to be able to keep up with my friends who are using scuba type fins to propel themselves. But at the same time, I wanted to be able to wear my wading boots with my fins, something that Force Fin fins will allow me to do. I was also hoping that the Force Fin fins will at least allow me to have the same thrusting power as a good pair of scuba fins. But by some of the responses I have been getting from folks here, it seems that a good pair of scuba fins may be more superior to a pair of Force Fin fins when it comes to propelling one’s float tube on the water. The thing is – I don’t want to pay $100+ for a pair of Force Fin fins if it does not perform at least as good as a pair of scuba fins. On large lakes, one does not want to expend a lot of extra energy to propel a float tube after a 3+ hour hike to get to a high mountain lake. Don. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Personally, if you are driving to the lake, or the walk is short, forget about anything but SCUBA PRO Jet fins.  With these large rubber fins you can tube for hours and hours and never tire.  Your maneuverablilty is unbelievable and best of all you can tube faster than most powerboats out there!!!

Response:

Look for fins that: 1- Cover your heel so you don’t chafe holes in your wet suit and don’t fill up easily with mud and sand when slogging around in the shallows. You can also wear booties to protect waders but it’s one more thing to buy, lug around and lose. 2- FLOAT. Diving fins are usually slightly negatively bouyant. Float tube fins do get scrubbed off when doing the heavy weed thing. Use tethers if your fins don’t float. 3- Flex rather easily. Diving fins are propelled by a slightly bent leg with most of the energy arising from the thigh, buttock and lower back. A float tube fin is propelled by the quads and a kick from the foot. Your legs will easily tire and your foot can cramp after heavy duty kicking with a long bladed, stiff dive fin. A flexy fin will sacrifice power up front but you’ll more than make up for it in the long run.    -Ralph – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You may be right, I beginning to think that scuba fins are better than the Caddis fins, Flip fins, Force Fin fins, or any of the short float tube fins on the market today. One of the reasons I wanted to get a new pair of float tube fins is to be able to keep up with my friends who are using scuba type fins to propel themselves. But at the same time, I wanted to be able to wear my wading boots with my fins, something that Force Fin fins will allow me to do. I was also hoping that the Force Fin fins will at least allow me to have the same thrusting power as a good pair of scuba fins. But by some of the responses I have been getting from folks here, it seems that a good pair of scuba fins may be more superior to a pair of Force Fin fins when it comes to propelling one’s float tube on the water. The thing is – I don’t want to pay $100+ for a pair of Force Fin fins if it does not perform at least as good as a pair of scuba fins. On large lakes, one does not want to expend a lot of extra energy to propel a float tube after a 3+ hour hike to get to a high mountain lake. Don. Personally, if you are driving to the lake, or the walk is short, forget about anything but SCUBA PRO Jet fins.  With these large rubber fins you can tube for hours and hours and never tire.  Your maneuverablilty is unbelievable and best of all you can tube faster than most powerboats out there!!!

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You may be right, I beginning to think that scuba fins are better than the Caddis fins, Flip fins, Force Fin fins, or any of the short float tube fins on the market today. One of the reasons I wanted to get a new pair of float tube fins is to be able to keep up with my friends who are using scuba type fins to propel themselves. But at the same time, I wanted to be able to wear my wading boots with my fins, something that Force Fin fins will allow me to do. I was also hoping that the Force Fin fins will at least allow me to have the same thrusting power as a good pair of scuba fins. But by some of the responses I have been getting from folks here, it seems that a good pair of scuba fins may be more superior to a pair of Force Fin fins when it comes to propelling one’s float tube on the water. The thing is – I don’t want to pay $100+ for a pair of Force Fin fins if it does not perform at least as good as a pair of scuba fins. On large lakes, one does not want to expend a lot of extra energy to propel a float tube after a 3+ hour hike to get to a high mountain lake. Don. Personally, if you are driving to the lake, or the walk is short, forget about anything but SCUBA PRO Jet fins.  With these large rubber fins you can tube for hours and hours and never tire.  Your maneuverablilty is unbelievable and best of all you can tube faster than most powerboats out there!!!

As far as the wading bots go, I use scuba fins and a pair of good ol’ Converse tennies for boots, and they work great.  I can outrace my buddy in his force fins quite handily.  He gets into the tube and the water more easily, however.

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Good points all Ralph, but are you familiar with the "Jet Fin"?  It is quite flexible though it does not cover your heel.  By the way, how’s the situation at Martis?

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am in the market for a new pair of float tube fins to replace the ones I currently use – which are Caddis fins. The new fins I am interested in buying are something called Force Fin float tube fins. They are advertised as being 40 – 60 percent more efficient than the average float tube fins on the market today. Here are some of my questions: 1. Has anyone used Force Fin float tube fins and found them better than the ones they previously used. 2. Does anyone knows how many models they have. 3. Do they (Force Fin) have a web site? Don. "May the fish be with you"

I know that Force Fins are very popular in northern California with the float-tubers. They make lots of models, but the fly shops usually carry the original model and the Adjustable. The originals come in sizes small, medium, medium/large, large, extra large and xx-large. The Adjustable come in one size and will fit over a boot or almost anything. The original sells for $85 to $99 and the Adjustable sells for $119 to $135. We sell the Caddis to people that are not traveling great distances in a day of fishing. They don’t float, so get some teethers. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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0] : I am in the market for a new pair of float tube fins to replace : the ones I currently use – which are Caddis fins. The new fins I : am interested in buying are something called Force Fin float tube : fins. They are advertised as being 40 – 60 percent more : efficient than the average float tube fins on the market today. : : Here are some of my questions: : : 1. Has anyone used Force Fin float tube fins and found them better : than the ones they previously used. : : 2. Does anyone knows how many models they have. : : 3. Do they (Force Fin) have a web site? : : Don. "May the fish be with you" If you would like some entertainment, try posting this question in rec.scuba and follow the resulting thread/holy-war. Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories Phone: (415)-857-5491               Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971

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Question:

Big river, or small creek, with just enough fish to be challenging and *no* other people around is quality.  The rest is fluff.

Interesting concept.  I would partially agree with you in that the number of fish doesnt’ control the quality of the experience.  Where I would disagree with you is when you use a small number of fish present as a positive measure of quality.  You want to be challenged, avoid the easy pocket water where you know you can pick up twenty a day.  Control your behavior (no not you personaly, you as in all of us), protect the environment (insert your definition here), and the rest will take care of itself. phil

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snip

 If we hook and play a number that causes the memory to blur, the appreciation to faden then WE HAVE EXCEEDED THE ETHICAL LIMIT. My opinion" snip

I agree with the premiss that the excitement of fishing is the reuslt of not knowing whether you will catch fish on a given stretch of river on a given day.  It is those days when I struggle to catch fish that make my succesful days exciting and rewarding.  Those struggling days provide a definition of successful ones.  A good example of this was last spring when I was still working very hard to catch any fish on a dry fly.  I would fish all day and catch one or two small trout.  One day I hit a Hendrickson hatch that was unbelievable.  I stood in the rain on six foot wide stream throwing without a fisherman in sight and caught more 13-15" trout (that is a nice fish here in Minnesota) than I could count.  I know because at first I was counting.  I rememeber getting to 25.  At some point after twenty five I just stopped fishing.  It wasn’t dark yet and the fish were still biting but I stopped.  I was bored.  It was too easy. I fished that stream around 50 times last year.  I never had another day like that.  Still, the memory of that day and a possible repeat is what got me out of bed at 3:00am to drive 80 miles to that same stream.  I don’t think I would fish that stream if I caught fish like that every time.  I also don’t think I would fish that stream if it were packed with fishermen (I saw a total of two fishermen all year).  I think I would go somewhere more challenging and rationalize it by saying it had bigger fish or more exciting fish to fight or less people. Mike H

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How much is enough? What is reasonable gratification? I feel strongly that each of these splendid wild creatures deserves to be individually remembered and appreciated. If we hook and play a number that causes the memory to blur, the                                                     ^^^^^^ ^^ ^^^^ appreciation to fade then WE HAVE EXCEEDED THE ETHICAL LIMIT. My opinion" I concur in this!  As I have said before, this is how I make my decision to stop fishing. -Burton — L. Burton Hawley 2330 NW Hummingbird Corvallis, ORSorry boys, BUT I WANT TO CATCH SO MANY FISH THAT I CAN’T REMEMBER ANY

OF THE "NORMAL" FISH, JUST ALL OF THE GIANTS. (I release most anyway!)

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I believe there is one thing Tim and Myself may be able to agree on and I hope so can most other readers of this group. Quality; angling should be about quality. I came across this in "Wild Steelhead and Salmon" V3 No 2 Winter 1997 from Bob linsenman’s 10 ways to Seduce Michigan Steelhead "Under the right conditions it is more than possible , it is probable, that a reasonably skilled fly angler will hook up in excess of 10 times over the course of a day. And that same skilled angler will bring to hand a high percentage of hooked fish. How much is enough? What is reasonable gratification? I feel strongly that each of these splendid wild creatures deserve s to be individually remembered and appreciated. If we hook and play a number that causes the memory to blur, the appreciation to faden then WE HAVE EXCEEDED THE ETHICAL LIMIT. My opinion" All emphasis is mine

You’re going to get mad at me…in advance 8^)… My serious contention with C&R is just that.  It reduces the quality of the experience 10 fold.  What happiness is there in catching a fish in an area with a fish behind every stick ? or an angler around every bend ?   Big river, or small creek, with just enough fish to be challenging and *no* other people around is quality.  The rest is fluff. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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How much is enough? What is reasonable gratification? I feel strongly that each of these splendid wild creatures deserve s to be individually remembered and appreciated. If we hook and play a number that causes the memory to blur, the appreciation to faden then WE HAVE EXCEEDED THE ETHICAL LIMIT. My opinion" All emphasis is mine Ralph H

I agree. One steelhead is a great day.  Ten or twenty days of fishing between hookups makes that one fish even more rewarding. Even trout get boring if you don’t have the occasional day where nothing works, to help bring some mystery and questioning back to it. Mark Vinsel — http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.html

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How much is enough? What is reasonable gratification? I feel strongly that each of these splendid wild creatures deserves to be individually remembered and appreciated. If we hook and play a number that causes the memory to blur, the                                                          ^^^^^^ ^^ ^^^^ appreciation to fade then WE HAVE EXCEEDED THE ETHICAL LIMIT. My opinion"

I concur in this!  As I have said before, this is how I make my decision to stop fishing. -Burton — L. Burton Hawley       2330 NW Hummingbird Corvallis, OR

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   Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly    Organization: Internet Direct SNIP    I came across this in "Wild Steelhead and Salmon" V3 No 2 Winter 1997    from Bob linsenman’s 10 ways to Seduce Michigan Steelhead    "Under the right conditions it is more than possible , it is     probable, that a d reasonably skilled fly angler will hook up in     excess of 10 times over the course of a day. And that same skilled     angler will bring to hand a high percentage of hooked fish.    How much is enough? What is reasonable gratification? I feel    strongly that each of these splendid wild creatures deserve s to be    individually remembered and appreciated. SNIP    Ralph H Not to disagree with you in any way (I too worship steelhead), but it struck me as odd to see an article about Michigan Steelhead in a magazine called "Wild Steelhead and Atlantic Salmon".  They should start a magazine called "Introduced and Hatchery Steelhead and Atlantic Salmon" for this topic.  Though, I should say that I’ve never really understood the scope of this magazine anyway. cheers,         -tgades

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I believe there is one thing Tim and Myself may be able to agree on and I hope so can most other readers of this group. Quality; angling should be about quality. I came across this in "Wild Steelhead and Salmon" V3 No 2 Winter 1997 from Bob linsenman’s 10 ways to Seduce Michigan Steelhead "Under the right conditions it is more than possible , it is probable, that a reasonably skilled fly angler will hook up in excess of 10 times over the course of a day. And that same skilled angler will bring to hand a high percentage of hooked fish. How much is enough? What is reasonable gratification? I feel strongly that each of these splendid wild creatures deserve s to be individually remembered and appreciated. If we hook and play a number that causes the memory to blur, the appreciation to faden then WE HAVE EXCEEDED THE ETHICAL LIMIT. My opinion" All emphasis is mine Ralph H

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Question:

Does anyone know  source for a White Snow Shoe Hares Foot? Thanks, Vic

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Vic,How many do you need? James Ehlers Uncle Jammer’s Guide Service Underhill, VT

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Does anyone know  source for a White Snow Shoe Hares Foot? Thanks, Vic

I got mine from Hunters Angling Supplies in New Boston (NH). Look for their number in any ff journal or mail back and I will try to find it Thomas (not affiliated with Hunters…) — Thomas Urbig

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Vic, Mike Houge has some listed on his Web Site http://www.commonlink.com/~Midwestflytying/ I met him at a recent Fly Show and he was very helpful with good prices. Rick — Richard Padgett – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know  source for a White Snow Shoe Hares Foot? Thanks, Vic

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Does anyone know  source for a White Snow Shoe Hares Foot?

A most reliable source, Vic, would be a wilderness area where you could catch a White Snow Shoe Hare and chop its f*cking feet off. Spinolio

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I’m looking for a white snow shoe hares foor to use as wing material for the comparadun.  Does anyone know of a source for one or two of those. Thanks, Vic

I think Feathecraft Fly Fishing in St. Louis has them in their catalog. 800-659-1707 Steve Rosenblum

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I’m looking for a white snow shoe hares foor to use as wing material for the comparadun.  Does anyone know of a source for one or two of those. Thanks, Vic

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Question:

Have opportunity to vacation in Breckenridge, Colorado this August and wonder if I will be near any trout streams or rivers if I choose this place. Any info. on spots, guides, etc. would be appreciated. Thanks, DLowe

        there is a fly shop in dillon, near the blue river, which i think is called "the columbine" that was very helpful to my son and myself a couple years ago when we took an unguided shot at colorado trout.  i think they have a sister shop in frisco.  the blue, itself, was a great piece of water.         good luck                 a. wayne harrison

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The Mountain Angler in Breckenridge is a great shop.  Well stocked and the post a map on the wall with directions and driving times to most public places within 2 hours.  They also post a chalkboard with fishing conditions and flies that are working based upon feedback from client visits.  They also have a variety of guided trips to public and private waters.  They are art 311 Main St (in the mall) ph 303-453-4665, last number I have.  The Gold Medal Fly Shop in Silverthorn 303-478-8961, 1130 Blue River Pky, on the road to Kremmling on the north side of town is a great, funky type fly shop.  Look for a small house in the trees, you will probably drive by it the first time.  Good selection of flies and terminal gear, very helpful owner.  It is always helpful to support the business by buying a few flies (or a $500 rod!) for their free advice.   Great fishing in the area.  The Blue on the north side of Breckenridge is quick,  the area of the Blue below Dillon Dam in Silverthorn directly behind the Outlet Malls! is Gold Medal, and many other places within an hours’ drive are excellent is the water is down to normal levels.  Last year it was late before fishing was good.  Also, the COLORADO ANGLING GUIDE by Chuck Frothergill (spelling?) is a great book and well worth the $28.  Good luck, I will be there in July and again in August.

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Have opportunity to vacation in Breckenridge, Colorado this August and wonder if I will be near any trout streams or rivers if I choose this place. Any info. on spots, guides, etc. would be appreciated. Thanks, DLowe

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Question:

I’m looking for a high quality 9-weight rod I can use for saltwater (blues and stripers) and freshwater (bass)? Any recommendations other than Orvis and Sage?

I use a custom built rod using a GLoomis IMX 9.5′/9wt 2pc blank (model FR1149, if I remember correctly). This is a cannon of a rod and is able to punch soggy 2/0 flies into the typical New England ocean winds with aplomb, and fight the big guys to the beach. I’ve landed some good-size bluefish (14~15 lbs) against an outgoing tide at the mouth of the Merrimack with this rod. It casts more like a 10wt than a 9 so I’ve overloaded it by one line size, and I’ve used a Teeny T500 (the ultimate depth charge) on it with no surprises. If you have the forearm for it, I highly recommend a similar rod for grownup blues and stripers… /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.    Alpha Server Engineering  < <           "Read this and nobody gets hurt"           < <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

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Try Scott, they make a beautiful rod to cast

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Ken Lindsay Fly Fishing Online http://www.flyfishing-online.com

Ken: Your Web page is dysfunctional; it apparently needs a little virtual therapy, or perhaps some head cement. I have a little GL3– a 78" for 3, but prefer my Loomis IMX rods for the bigger rivers, longer casts and heavier winds.

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I’m looking for a high quality 9-weight rod I can use for saltwater (blues and stripers) and freshwater (bass)? Any recommendations other than Orvis and Sage? Thanks. David

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Winston… it’s the only rod.  See other’s comments in "What do you think of Winston Rods" subject messages Karl the Bass

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Try the Loomis GLX series. They are really powerful. Another rod   to try would be the Redingtons. THe price is considerably lower   than the big boys and they have super actions. Good Luck, Ken Lindsay Fly Fishing Online http://www.flyfishing-online.com

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I’m looking for a high quality 9-weight rod I can use for saltwater (blues and stripers) and freshwater (bass)? Any recommendations other than Orvis and Sage? Thanks. David

You should take a good look at Powell Rods. They are very high quality and a goof bargan for the quality.

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I’m looking for a high quality 9-weight rod I can use for saltwater (blues and stripers) and freshwater (bass)? Any recommendations other than Orvis and Sage?

Loomis makes some great rods.  Both the GLX (high end) and GL3 ( mid range) are good values fo rthe money.  The GL3 is the fastest rod I know of in the 200-250 price range.                  /                 /                   John Woodling                /                    Sacramento, CA                   <     <

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I’m looking for a high quality 9-weight rod I can use for saltwater (blues and stripers) and freshwater (bass)? Any recommendations other than Orvis and Sage? Thanks. David

I like the J.K. Fisher GT40 9/10, very powerful. My friend’s Scott Heli Ply seems real nice too. Fin Nor is selling rods under their name built on GT40 blanks too. Neither of these rods are cheap, but they’re both fine sticks.                                                         john cloyd

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I’m looking for a high quality 9-weight rod I can use for saltwater (blues and stripers) and freshwater (bass)? Any recommendations other than Orvis and Sage? Thanks. David

One of the best  rods for the money is a ST Croix Legend. They are made in Wis. and have a lifetime warrantee.  The list price for a  9′ 8/9 wt is $210.  IM-6 type  42,000,000 modulus.

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