Question:

i-81, north of syracuse, turn right…  hmmm, sounds like another snipe hunt…  but, after participating in a few hundred of them, i’m still tryin to get the hang of it.  so, pencil me in. jeff (more simpler) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i’ve never fished naw yuk… so, plug me in as a definite maybe… but 2 days might not be ’nuff.  …um, how do you get to allmur? It couldn’t be more simple.   If’n you can get to I-81 anywhere between Tennessee & New York, you’ve got it licked.   If you’re starting out in the I-95 corridor, pick the east/west interstate of your choice.   Once you’re on I-81, stay on it until about 35 miles north of Syracure and turn right. At that point, you’re as good as there. Joe F.

Response:

you got a cah? …i got a truk.  …but, if a truk will do, where is altmar? jeff Find Lake Ontario on a map of NY. Can’t miss it. Look for the big blue thing in the upper left.

FYI.   I think that this year was one of the best I have had in many years, I spent a total of about 4-5 weeks on and off,  fishing there. I have been fishing the Salmon River for over 18 years.  The Salmon run started the first week in September, and my last trip finished up Sunday November 10th.   To my amazement the Kings were still running into the river, and I found that most were still in excellent shape. Finished up the last day with a catch of 3 browns, ranging between 7-10lbs., one Steelhead rather small and several Kings.  All were released.   Arty PS, only broke one fly rod this season. Art(Arty)Santella

Response:

Unbelievably, it’s time to start considering whether or not you’re interested in a repeat (and hopefully, an improvement) on the 2002 Salmon River mini-clave.   In 2003, we will not be staying at Malinda’s, only because she is already booked up for every weekend through October 19 (as is the Portly Angler and Whitaker’s). Rather than push the dates back and risk missing too much of the prime run, Craig & I have found another lodge that promises better accommodations than Malinda’s (I know, "How is that possible?" you ask.) and that actually has rooms available for the earlier weekend. So – if you are thinking you might want to book a room at clave central next year, October 16-19, 2003, email me & I’ll give you the location.   Or, if there’s enough tentative interest at this early date, I’ll just book a second (or third?) room as I did last year. Joe F.

Response:

So – if you are thinking you might want to book a room at clave central next year, October 16-19, 2003, email me & I’ll give you the location.   Or, if there’s enough tentative interest at this early date, I’ll just book a second (or third?) room as I did last year.

FYI:   I’ve received enough "maybes" that I went ahead and booked a 4-person efficiency at the "Fish Inn Post" (www.fishinnpost.com) in Altmar, NY for the nights of 10/16/03 through 10/18/03.   I will put down the deposit & hold this room for potential miniclavers.   I have never been to this lodge & can’t attest to anything about it, but how bad could it be, eh? That ought to cover it until next summer, I’d expect.   We’ll talk then. Joe F. p.s.   If anyone would like a recommendation for a good guide, I’d recommend Pat Miura (http://members.aol.com/pmiura/index.html).   I know he’s booked for Saturday, 10/18, but it’s not too early if you want to grab a different day.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So – if you are thinking you might want to book a room at clave central next year, October 16-19, 2003, email me & I’ll give you the location.   Or, if there’s enough tentative interest at this early date, I’ll just book a second (or third?) room as I did last year. FYI:   I’ve received enough "maybes" that I went ahead and booked a 4-person efficiency at the "Fish Inn Post" (www.fishinnpost.com) in Altmar, NY for the nights of 10/16/03 through 10/18/03.   I will put down the deposit & hold this room for potential miniclavers.   I have never been to this lodge & can’t attest to anything about it, but how bad could it be, eh? That ought to cover it until next summer, I’d expect.   We’ll talk then. Joe F. p.s.   If anyone would like a recommendation for a good guide, I’d recommend Pat Miura (http://members.aol.com/pmiura/index.html).   I know he’s booked for Saturday, 10/18, but it’s not too early if you want to grab a different day.

I’ve stayed here a fw times and it’s a step up from Malinda’s. Paul

Response:

i’ve never fished naw yuk… so, plug me in as a definite maybe… but 2 days might not be ’nuff.  …um, how do you get to allmur? jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – FYI:   I’ve received enough "maybes" that I went ahead and booked a 4-person efficiency at the "Fish Inn Post" (www.fishinnpost.com) in Altmar, NY for the nights of 10/16/03 through 10/18/03.   I will put down the deposit & hold this room for potential miniclavers.   I have never been to this lodge & can’t attest to anything about it, but how bad could it be, eh?

Response:

i’ve never fished naw yuk… so, plug me in as a definite maybe… but 2 days might not be ’nuff.  …um, how do you get to allmur?

cah

Response:

you got a cah? …i got a truk.  …but, if a truk will do, where is altmar? jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i’ve never fished naw yuk… so, plug me in as a definite maybe… but 2 days might not be ’nuff.  …um, how do you get to allmur? cah

Response:

you got a cah? …i got a truk.  …but, if a truk will do, where is altmar? jeff

Find Lake Ontario on a map of NY. Can’t miss it. Look for the big blue thing in the upper left. Altmar is about 10 miles east of the lake and about 5 miles east of Pulaski. Paul

Response:

i’ve never fished naw yuk… so, plug me in as a definite maybe… but 2 days might not be ’nuff.  …um, how do you get to allmur?

It couldn’t be more simple.   If’n you can get to I-81 anywhere between Tennessee & New York, you’ve got it licked.   If you’re starting out in the I-95 corridor, pick the east/west interstate of your choice.   Once you’re on I-81, stay on it until about 35 miles north of Syracure and turn right. At that point, you’re as good as there. Joe F.

Response:

Question:

All who contribute to ROFF are equally important, as ROFF is a team effort, and as such far greater than any individual, or even the sum of the individuals involved. Most of us are here to enjoy ourselves in the discussion of a common interest and its periphery, often including wild  tangents,or indeed completely unrelated subject matter. Nobody has more rights than anybody else, and everybody is free to voice their opinions as they see fit.

Sounds like a great intro paragraph for any newbies stumbling in here and wondering what the hell we’re about.    Thanks for leading the way Mike. <bg Joe F.

Response:

I was serious once in 1968.  Never again though.  I am not related to our fearless leader (or our defacto roff leader. wordsmith Mike Conner)   For people who like to stir up shit and get people worked up ( mostly over nothing ) roff is a "target rich" enviroment.  Many pots of stercium and me with a stick, how can one resist to stir it up once in a while. I do fly fish and do pick up many pearls of information ( for which I am grateful ) from roff participants.   I also try to contribute ( meaningful fly fishing information) when I am able. I consider any string "off topic" as open for any comments. I don’t like being corrected by Ditto headed republicans,  If you have the mental capacity of a 3 year old crowbar  what can you  teach?

OK, so Latin, grammar, and punctuation are out…from your other response, trolling is out.  I stick by my original suggestion…

Response:

I do not lead anything or anybody at all, and I have no desire so to do. This being the case, I would prefer not to be so titulated. My opinions are worth no more than any other opinions which might be published by various people on here, except in the sense that some of my experience or knowledge of the subject  might tend to give them more weight.  I often discuss relatively simple facts, and there is little chance of much going wrong if one sticks to these. This applies only to subjects of which I have direct knowledge and experience, that is, mainly fishing related, and does not qualify me in any way to hold forth on any other subject. It is not my intention to influence people to any great degree, and I usually only answer specific questions or enter discussions on specific subjects about which I know something, apart from when I engage in writing usually more or less nonsensical doggerel, attempting mostly humorous comebacks, or the occasional story, which to date,  have all been factual, and related to direct experience. Most unfortunate that some people appear to have gotten the idea that I might lead anything.  All who contribute to ROFF are equally important, as ROFF is a team effort, and as such far greater than any individual, or even the sum of the individuals involved. Most of us are here to enjoy ourselves in the discussion of a common interest and its periphery, often including wild  tangents,or indeed completely unrelated subject matter. Nobody has more rights than anybody else, and everybody is free to voice their opinions as they see fit. While I am aware that many people respect my opinions, and  I find this gratifying of course, I would be most disappointed to be considered as some sort of guru, most especially one responsible for the general tone. This is most certainly not the case, and would also be insulting to many others, were it indeed so. TL MC — "If you have tried everything you know, and nothing works, then perhaps it is time to accept that you don

Question:

Anyone have any experience flyfishing in PR or Vieques? We’re headed there shortly and need any info you guys & ladies might have. Thanks, Bill Way

Response:

Im told that Vieques can be quite a blast. Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone have any experience flyfishing in PR or Vieques? We’re headed there shortly and need any info you guys & ladies might have. Thanks, Bill Way

Response:

I spent a couple of months down there in the US Navy and I had a blast with the baracuda, gar, croaker, and tarpon. All over the area. You will love it. make sure you have some braided leaders or wire of some sorts. ‘Cudas bite right through it. Also need som 10-20 pound leaders and tippet material. The best colors were blue/white and chartreuse/white. Others worked but not as well. I caught many other species of fish, but I couldn’t tell you what they were. Hope you enjoy the fishing. There are some flats to chose from as well as some good accessible deeper areas. Good fishing Gordo When in doubt, toss ‘em a fly. Who knows, may be your day. Gordo

Response:

Interested in fly fishing and fishing Puerto Rico? See www.fishinginpuertorico.com for more information. Mark V. <’< – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I spent a couple of months down there in the US Navy and I had a blast with the baracuda, gar, croaker, and tarpon. All over the area. You will love it. make sure you have some braided leaders or wire of some sorts. ‘Cudas bite right through it. Also need som 10-20 pound leaders and tippet material. The best colors were blue/white and chartreuse/white. Others worked but not as well. I caught many other species of fish, but I couldn’t tell you what they were. Hope you enjoy the fishing. There are some flats to chose from as well as some good accessible deeper areas. Good fishing Gordo When in doubt, toss ‘em a fly. Who knows, may be your day. Gordo

Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

Kind sir, As pointed out by the gentleman before me… I bet I could cross your eyes with a hookset on a good Gamaguchii hook and a Kit Kat…  Too easy… <G  Try fly-fishing over selective trout and tell me who THAT’s unfair to

Response:

Just in case you have not noticed yet: LIFE IS NOT FAIR. Once one realizes that, it is easier to cope.  Now suck it up, stop snivelling, and get on with it! Steve, the DsrtTravlr

Response:

I do not think that using lures is fair to the fish. Lures are not part of their natural environment you sandheads. It would be as if someone was dragging a stack of $100 bills on the ground. Live bait is the only fair way to catch fish. Everything else is just a crutch for poor fishing technique. If any of you clowns want to discuss this, email me and MAYBE I’ll tell you some of my super secret tricks that I use with a worm. Bye jerkheads!

Shows just how little you actually know about fishing. If your super secret tricks are hanging a Night Crawler off a hook, you can keep them. That’s too easy. Give the fish a fighting chance by using artificial lures! Dale Ross Microsoft BackOffice MVP ClubIE Team 5 Captain, ClubWin Chapter 10 Head http://www.clubie.com http://www.clubwin.com |   Win32 Support BBS Charlotte, NC USA (704) 588-2669         | |            http://win32supportbbs.vnet.net/                  | "Nothing I have written here is in any way, shape, or form official or unofficial L & H Technologies policy or opinion. It’s simply my opinion that I hope they agree with! <G"

Response:

go fish

Response:

I do not think that using lures is fair to the fish. Lures are not part of their natural environment you sandheads. It would be as if someone was dragging a stack of $100 bills on the ground. Live bait is the only fair way to catch fish. Everything else is just a crutch for poor fishing technique.

Wait a minute.. in my experience, it MUCH EASIER to catch a fish on live bait!!  If anything, using live bait is ‘unfair.’ -Mark

Response:

Wait a minute.. in my experience, it MUCH EASIER to catch a fish on live bait!!  If anything, using live bait is ‘unfair.’

Bait is easier. All fishermen know that. But some of you guys are missing the point here. This dickwad dont fish, he just gets a rise out of starting long pointless threads on newsgroups by coming out with belligerent statements carefully designed to piss people off. And he is good at it. This thread is way longer than almost all legit questions posted here. I see guys asking about line, or tips on setting hooks, and they get almost no response. And here a worthless scumbag gets all the traffic he wants and he doesnt even give a crap about fishing. I suppose the thread is usefull in that its a debate over what is easier to catch fish on. But I am almost insulted that other decent folks are asking for help here and are not getting it while this guy gets more response from this group than he deserves. Definately a very successfull troller. You guys should quit biting. stev — stev_ix_netcom_com is a fake. Sorry, Im tired of all the crap I get in the mail.    

Response:

I read your post, and although I disagree greatly with you, I’d like to discuss this.  First of all, I don’t believe that lures are unfair to the fish, in fact, if I’m not catching anything on a lure, I’ll switch to a worm and fish for whatever bites (usually bluegill, sunfish, small bass, etc).  Number 2, I fish lures because it is challenging.  I do not understand your reasoning on a lure being mean to the fish.  When you catch a fish on a worm, do you give him the worm?  If not, you don’t make any sense.  Also, you’d better pray to God that a fisherman/hacker didn’t read your post, especially the ‘Bye Jerkheads!’ part.  Have a nice day, Mike Zansk

Response:

Is this the same muscle bound moron we’ve been having so much fun with lately?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I do not think that using lures is fair to the fish. Lures are not part of their natural environment you sandheads. It would be as if someone was dragging a stack of $100 bills on the ground. Live bait is the only fair way to catch fish. Everything else is just a crutch for poor fishing technique. If any of you clowns want to discuss this, email me and MAYBE I’ll tell you some of my super secret tricks that I use with a worm. Bye jerkheads! Scott Mulligan

artificial to the fishes world, and to be able to put this man made object in to that world, and completely fool the fish into striking it, as if it is something to eat is what it’s all about. Any dumbass can put live bait on a hook and the fish will eat it, that’s not fair to the fish. With an artificial, he at least has a chance to reject the offering. What if I put a candy bar on your Mom’s kitchen counter, and waited for your ass to come and eat it, and when you did, I jacked your jaws into the next county, now that that would be unfair. Just kiddin!

Response:

I read your post, and although I disagree greatly with you, I’d like to discuss this.  First of all, I don’t believe that lures are unfair to the fish, in fact, if I’m not catching anything on a lure, I’ll switch to a worm and fish for whatever bites (usually bluegill, sunfish, small bass, etc).  Number 2, I fish lures because it is challenging.  I do not understand your reasoning on a lure being mean to the fish.  When you catch a fish on a worm, do you give him the worm?  If not, you don’t make any sense.  Also, you’d better pray to God that a fisherman/hacker didn’t read your post, especially the ‘Bye Jerkheads!’ part.  Have a nice day, Mike Zansk

Maybe you’re new to this thread Mike, but Scott old boy(?) get his jollies by trolling with an outrageous statement then appartently sitting back and watching the results until it peters out, when he submits another "gem". He’s not interested in discussion and is best ignored… — Tight lines and sharp hooks, Capt. Mark Poirier – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<OOOO))’

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I do not think that using lures is fair to the fish. Lures are not part of their natural environment you sandheads. It would be as if someone was dragging a stack of $100 bills on the ground. Live bait is the only fair way to catch fish. Everything else is just a crutch for poor fishing technique. If any of you clowns want to discuss this, email me and MAYBE I’ll tell you some of my super secret tricks that I use with a worm. Bye jerkheads! Scott Mulligan

If lures are too effective to be "fair" (whatever that means) then live bait is even MORE "unfair" because it’s usually more effective, in my experience.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I do not think that using lures is fair to the fish. Lures are not part of their natural environment you sandheads. It would be as if someone was dragging a stack of $100 bills on the ground. Live bait is the only fair way to catch fish. Everything else is just a crutch for poor fishing technique. If any of you clowns want to discuss this, email me and MAYBE I’ll tell you some of my super secret tricks that I use with a worm. Bye jerkheads! Scott Mulligan

who says 100 dollar bills dragging on the ground is not in my enivornment!Besides your mistake is comparing fish to human beings. As thinking beings we have created a way to fish without using LIVE bait and that means saving the life of those creatures used as LIVE BAIT.

Response:

You probably dont even have a worm….. other than the ones you got through a hole in the wall in a peep-show booth. GO AWAY MORON mark s.

Response:

I do not think that using lures is fair to the fish. Lures are not part of their natural environment you sandheads. It would be as if someone was dragging a stack of $100 bills on the ground. Live bait is the only fair way to catch fish. Everything else is just a crutch for poor fishing technique. If any of you clowns want to discuss this, email me and MAYBE I’ll tell you some of my super secret tricks that I use with a worm. Bye jerkheads! Scott Mulligan

O.K., so I decided to check out Deja News to see what our spammer has been up to elsewhere, and here’s what I found.  (see below) Of the newsgroups listed, I looked at his articles in about 5 of them and they were all stupid flames, some even word for word just like some of his tripe posted here.  He’s not just an idiot troller, he’s lacking in creativity.  Unless you can send 220 volts straight through his modem, he’s not worth responding to.   Confidence Newsgroup: 99%rec.woodworking91%alt.fishing65%rec.motorcycles.harley61%rec.gardens47%r ec.martial-arts47% rec.outdoors.fishing.bass39%rec.outdoors.fishing39%soc.singles28%rec.motorc ycles.racing21% microsoft.public.excel.programming21%rec.arts.startrek.current21%soc.bi13%c omp.lang.java.tech10% alt.abuse.recovery10%alt.beer10%rec.folk-dancing Steve Thomas If you don’t get this, let me know. (Remove _ from "reply to" address)

Response:

I do not think that using lures is fair to the fish. Lures are not part of their natural environment you sandheads. It would be as if someone was dragging a stack of $100 bills on the ground. Live bait is the only fair way to catch fish. Everything else is just a crutch for poor fishing technique. If any of you clowns want to discuss this, email me and MAYBE I’ll tell you some of my super secret tricks that I use with a worm. Bye jerkheads! Scott Mulligan

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I do not think that using lures is fair to the fish. Lures are not part of their natural environment you sandheads. It would be as if someone was dragging a stack of $100 bills on the ground. Live bait is the only fair way to catch fish. Everything else is just a crutch for poor fishing technique. If any of you clowns want to discuss this, email me and MAYBE I’ll tell you some of my super secret tricks that I use with a worm. Bye jerkheads! Scott Mulligan

Hey spamhead…Troll-off Bubba B

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Larry-  Most knot strength tests are done with dry monofilament that is tied and tested while dry. This results in a meaningless number for anglers. As an example: The highly touted Orvis and monofilament loop knots are very strong when dry but fall far short of the uni-knot (Duncan knot) after the monofilament becomes wet.    Our strain gauge device (calibrated to .001 lbs) has no opinions and gives us the following results on knots tied with dry monofilament that are then soaked in distilled water for 45 minutes at room temp. The following percentages are the average of 20 knots tied from three different spools of factory fresh 3x Dai Rikki Velvet. Velvet was used because it has the most consistant breaking factor of any tippet material we have tested.    Loop Knots:    Bimini-100 percent, Uni knot- 96 percent, Monofilament loop- 87 percent, Perfection- 85 percent, 2X surgeons- 68 percent, 4X surgeons- 68 percent, 6X surgeons-81 percent, 7X surgeons-73 percent.    FYI: the best tippet to fly loop is the Uni knot at 96 percent.         the best tippet to fly non-loop is the Trilene knot at 100 percent.         the best mono to mono connection is the 6x blood knot at 68 percent.         the despised wind knot tests at a relatively strong 87 percent.   -Ralph

DEAR RALPH:  I disagree with the majority of your tests.  Are you just using a regular pull scales or what?  And the Dai Rikki comment I also don’t agree solidly with, but I don’t want to argue this with you because I don’t know what your controls are and the fact the IGFA specifies along with a breaking +/- % centage that there are more than one mono product(s) that breaks EXACTLY where they should and at EXACTLY the same breaking points in percentages in order to set "World Recognized IGFA Records".  MAXIMA is one such product along with Andre, Trileen, etc.  This is what makes your "most consistant comment" void (or dubious)and really, frankly biased in the face of real (already established) scientific facts compared to our and other scientific laboratory tests which have been conducted by major monofiliment companies.  Yet, I am pleased you are getting into this field and that your interests are so strong.  I hope you continue it, but I think you should ‘rethink’ your approach and possibly revisit your testing equipment and/or procedures.  Test should be run both dry and wet and off the same spool stock or batch.  Etc, etc.  But I find serious disagreement with your percentages.  Our recent tests with Knot-Perfect Knot Lube certainly changes the entire realm of how knots should behave and function.  For true uniformity, this product will definately change test results . . . and all "CONSISTANTLY for the Better".  I will send you some for your testing as a sponsor and supporter in your work, if you like.  Just need a mailing address Ralph.   Mr. G.

Response:

Hi George-  Your letter is responding to Ralph H, not me, Ralph Cutter. Non-the-less I found your post amusing, and left me with a few questions: This is why I always fish with Maxima because I have a lifetime of fishing experience with this ONE BRAND.  Every knot I tie in it is known. . . Now, this statement is about as bold as you can do, but lets face it.  I know what the hell I’m doing. . .  It means consistant breaking

or parting percentages every time.    I’m curious as to why you chose Maxima. Of ALL the lines we have tested it is the most inconsistent. The diameter, color and strength vary greatly from spool to spool and we’ve noted up to .02 differences in the same spool. This is an observation made by several different line testers.   Maxima is an old product. Over the past decade Polymer technologies have advanced almost as fast as computers. My old Kaypro was fine in its time, but in the case of plastics and computers newer is better. A breaking scale does not a scientist make.  

   That is why we employed a polymer chemist to help us with our testing parameters. Much of the actual testing was done by an engineer with thirty years of stress analysis at Lockheed and Kaiser. I also know that there are much more consistant breaking and more reliable tippet materials than those bragged about.

Please share these with us. I was also amused by your previous post stating saying your knot glue was a new and revoltionary concept that could change the face of flyfishing. Forty years ago Herter’s sold a glue that was guaranteed to make monolfilament knots 100 percent. When nylon was introduced, many knot glue products were sold to help people with this new slippery material. A good product probably; revolutionary, hardly. I agree fully with the concept of your glue. ZAP A GAP and PVC cement do the same. Ralph and Lisa Cutter. California School of Flyfishing http:www/flyline.com  /v/                             /v/

Response:

If Tony and Spinolio got married they’d have offspring named Toniolio.

Easy for you, Tim to ponder Tony’s mating habits when your mouth has obviously been surgically attached to his fat ass <G. For the record, I have a tube of George’s knot-goop *and* I agree with Tony…noone I know would fool with it astream…a little spit-tle do ya…it snot that big of thing…

For the record I *don’t* have a tube and would never buy one (come fishing with me, Tim, and you’ll see how I tie knots). My post was in response to Gades telling George to stop posting, as if this were something Gades has the power to do. (Note to Gades: I got your big, bad hate mail, just as other people warned me I would. Apparently you’re becoming famous for this sort of thing. Very scary, but don’t flatter yourself…I would never actually email you).   No good will become the fellow that needs lubricant to tie a knot.

Don’t look at me, you’re the one who bought it. Spinolio

Response:

Hi Rick-   The Orvis Knot and the Mono loop knot tested virtually the same. E mail me your postal address and I’ll send you more data.   -Ralph

Ralph, I notice you have a web site. Maybe you could put your results up there (so you don’t have dozens of us requesting copies in the mail). Thanks for the informative posts. Jim Ralph and Lisa Cutter. California School of Flyfishing http:www/flyline.com /v/                            /v/

– Opinions expressed are my own, and not those of my employer.

Response:

  If they’re knot tests, then what are they ? Must be naught tests. Anglerboy — Trout fear me, Women want me.

Great .sig file Anglerboy !.  You gotta love it… — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

It is extremely easy to see why you, based on your cumulative "contibutions" to date, would be intimidated by posts that demonstrate an active thought process.

Let me know when you come up with one. As for the streamside choice, I applaud your choosing knot-goop.

I would only choose a tube of knot-goop over your company… better conversation. It is consistent with the fact that you don’t actually fish.

Yeesh… ya really got me with that one, Tony. Same to you, only double! Ha! I’ve been to your masturbatory web site… are you the fat, ugly cosksucker holding the dead fish or is that your Orvis-endorsed guide. Spinolio

Response:

If they’re knot tests, then what are they ? TimW Halfordian Golfer

As you can tell from the way these threads are unspooling, the answer to that question is still tied up in debate.  If I understand these tests correctly, we should all start using distilled water and George’s goop — they’ll make our knots so strong we’ll be uprooting trees every time we try to yank a fly free from a limb. John

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly   (much blather snipped)   Please don’t waste our time by quoting the results of some knot test   that used your knot-liquid.  It is of no use since nobody I know would   bother with such a product streamside.   Considering the pompous and snotty nature of your posts, Tony, I can’t   imagine anyone I know bothering with such a product as *you*, streamside   or otherwise. Faced with a choice, George’s knot-goop wins hands down.   Spinolio It is extremely easy to see why you, based on your cumulative "contibutions" to date, would be intimidated by posts that demonstrate an active thought process.

.. hmmm sounds interesting Mr Gades. Based on your CV (checked out that web site you advertise) this is something you know a thing or two about. Sometime maybe you’ll take a break from being crabby and give us a demo! 8^) Ralph H (just a simple dip shit) " … the sabbath rang slowly in the pebbles of the holy streams!" Dylan Thomas, "Fern Hill" " One man free to love his minute   in the realms of flesh and sun   breaks down more pain than ages   of humane law or lawyers can." Leonard Cohen, " Crying, Come Back, Hero"

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Hi Jon-   We found that as monofilament soaks up water it becomes increasingly vulnerable to cutting itself with tight radius knots (mono loop and wind knots). Clinching type knots (Uni-knot) actually often became a bit stronger, possibly because the swelling of the monofilament created a tighter grip.    When developing testing parameters we put knotted lines in water and tested knots at 5 minute intervals. After about 30 minutes the changes were no longer noticable. For the hell of it we let the lines soak for an additional 15 minutes simply to be sure they were soaked to capacity.    The IGFA also soaks lines before subjecting them to class rating tests.    -Ralph Ralph, I am curious why you use 45 min. soaking. I can see wetting having one or more of several effects. 1) just surface coating which may affect surface tension or lubricity of the knots in some way and possibly affecting cinching or stress production in the knot and 2) interaction with the plastic polymer which would imply some sort of penetration into the plastic and a change of its physical characteristics. #1 would happen immediately upon wetting and #2 may be time-dependent based on the permeability of the plastic. A grey-zone might occur if #1 was the main effect but the water required time to penetrate the knot. It would be easy to test by looking at change in breaking strength over time of a wet strand in the absence of a knot. Any comments? Just curious. Jon

Ralph and Lisa Cutter. California School of Flyfishing http:www/flyline.com  /v/                             /v/

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  If they’re knot tests, then what are they ? Must be naught tests. Anglerboy — Trout fear me, Women want me.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (much blather snipped) Please don’t waste our time by quoting the results of some knot test that used your knot-liquid.  It is of no use since nobody I know would bother with such a product streamside. Considering the pompous and snotty nature of your posts, Tony, I can’t imagine anyone I know bothering with such a product as *you*, streamside or otherwise. Faced with a choice, George’s knot-goop wins hands down. Spinolio Right on! It’s about time somebody called-out this Gades character. I’ve yet to read a post where he didn’t come off as being pompous and rude.

If Tony and Spinolio got married they’d have offspring named Toniolio. Whydoncha relax a notch swatson ? For the record, I have a tube of George’s knot-goop *and* I agree with Tony…noone I know would fool with it astream…a little spit-tle do ya…it snot that big of thing… No good will become the fellow that needs lubricant to tie a knot. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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(much blather snipped) Please don’t waste our time by quoting the results of some knot test that used your knot-liquid.  It is of no use since nobody I know would bother with such a product streamside. Considering the pompous and snotty nature of your posts, Tony, I can’t imagine anyone I know bothering with such a product as *you*, streamside or otherwise. Faced with a choice, George’s knot-goop wins hands down. Spinolio

Right on! It’s about time somebody called-out this Gades character. I’ve yet to read a post where he didn’t come off as being pompous and rude.

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Hi Rick-    The Orvis Knot and the Mono loop knot tested virtually the same. E mail me your postal address and I’ll send you more data.    -Ralph – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Great post!!   I was wondering, you mention that the Orvis knot was "far short of the Uni-knot" but you didn’t give a percentage.  I tend to like the Orvis knot because of it’s ease in tying and the thought that it was so strong. Also, I think a comparision of Wet to Dry Knot strenths would be very interesting.  Do you have that kind of data?   I have never considered the Duncan Loop to be a very strong knot but your data does not support this idea. Once agin, thanks for the information and keep up the good work. Rick Richard Padgett

Ralph and Lisa Cutter. California School of Flyfishing http:www/flyline.com  /v/                             /v/

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly   Organization: Gehrke’s Gink/Xink Fly Fishing Products Company   DEAR RALPH:  I disagree with the majority of your tests.   Mr. G. Mr. Cutter clearly laid out the results of clearly explained experiments. There is nothing to "disagree" with unless you are claiming that he lied. , While I found the info interesting it has to be noted that no experiment is valid beyond the parameters of it’s design. For example who fishes in distilled water? Who soaks their leader in water for 45 minutes and why was that time period chosen (was it chosen arbitrarily?) Leaders are in the water usually for no more than a few minutes and then dried – at least partially – by casting. Do we know the extent of saturation of a typical leader on an average day? What was the precise breaking strain of the mono before the knot was tied? What was the breaking strain of the knot? what was the degree of confidence in the test? None the less the relative breaking strains of the knots are informative. AND! George seems to have thrown down a gauntlet regarding the effectiveness of his knot goop. I for one would be fascinated by an independent before and after sort of comparison. Ralph H (just a simple dipshit 8^) ) "…      the sabbath rang slowly      in the pebbles of the holy streams!" Dylan Thomas, "Fern Hill"

RALPH, you are not a dipshit.  Christ.  Loosen up.  What you should do is reread every sentence in my answer carefully without putting words in my mouth.  Re-review the part about the IGFA and think a bit.  What I say is based on sound facts.  If you want to call someone a liar, than you should but don’t count me in on your train-of-logic because it is also incorrect.  As far as challenges are concerned regarding KNOT-PERFECT, I will say this Ralph.  I will challenge anyone in the world not to agree that Knot-Perfect, (WATCH MY WORDS!) will make any brand of tippet/leader material (KNOT FOR KNOT) a more consistant breaking knot for THAT MATERIAL.  Understand? For instance, a batch or spool of 2# test may break variously with ONE KNOT but once you use KNOT-PERFECT on that same knot each time its tied, that knot will break more consistantly AT THE SAME POUNDAGE than with any other product in the world. What this means Ralph is this.  You can train yourself with two pound test and with the same brand of mono used every time to sense or KNOW how hard to fight and pull on a fish before that brand and knot will break.  This comes with experience.  It is not learned over-night. This is why I always fish with Maxima because I have a lifetime of fishing experience with this ONE BRAND.  Every knot I tie in it is known.  A blood knot will break at a different percentage than another. Etc.  However, my friend; there are things that KNOT-PERFECT does inside a knot and too the monofiliment that no other product in the world can do.  Now, this statement is about as bold as you can do, but lets face it.  I know what the hell I’m doing.  I haven’t spend years in my chemistry lab just swatting flies on the walls.  The point is, KNOT-PERFECT takes fishermen in all catagories that are knot-perfect and makes them (you guessed it) PERFECT!  The knots aren’t burnt.  The knots are no longer chaffed or cracked under pressure, and every knot squeezes down (for THAT PARTICULAR KNOT) around where the main tippet stem enters the knot EXACTLY THE SAME AND UNDER THE SAME PRESSURE TIME AND TIME AGAIN.  This means what?  It means consistant breaking or parting percentages every time. So, if you are tying a blood-knot all the time, for each poundage at its weakest point . . . you have dialed in a confidence level never before dreamed or possible before.  A 2.1 # test tippet in a blood-knot will break (for example) at exactly 1.9 LBS. time and time again, without exception.  This has never been possible before in the entire history of fishing.  Any kind of fishing, Ralph. A breaking scale does not a scientist make.  I still do not know what kind of scales are used or the testing parimeters.  In fact, none of us do.  The variables are massive from what we read compared to our lab tests.  I still will not compound an arguement or difference of opinion but what I am saying is that the test results posted are ‘very general.’ They are general because you do not know the material diameters, the length of the male verses the female side or; the cope vs the drag side or put another way, the length of the bottom tippet verses the top? Were identical diameters used or was a two pound test tippet attached to a four pound test piece?  I also know that there are much more consistant breaking and more reliable tippet materials than those bragged about.  And I mean, by a long shot, Ralph. And no.  I don’t know everything.  I’m no smart-ass, but I’m not stupid either.  I’ve done a lot of research work in this industry Ralph and I’m not here belittle anyone.  But I am here to freely disagree when I know I’m right. I’ll leave it at that and you all can have this thread.  I’m sorry I butted in where I wasn’t wanted. Have a nice season. Mr. G. POST SCRIPT:  I was just asked what I use all the time and of course it is Maxima.  I cannot stand tippet material that snake and curl up like D.Reek/etc. does once you catch a fish and stretch it.  No Sir.  Maxima doesn’t do this and I do not like hard, slick surfaced tippet material for much the same reasons.  When I die and they bury me, they can put a spool of Maxima in my shirt pocket so I won’t run out of it in heaven. Everyone.

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If they’re knot tests, then what are they ? — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly   Organization: Gehrke’s Gink/Xink Fly Fishing Products Company   DEAR RALPH:  I disagree with the majority of your tests.   Mr. G. Mr. Cutter clearly laid out the results of clearly explained experiments. There is nothing to "disagree" with unless you are claiming that he lied. ,

While I found the info interesting it has to be noted that no experiment is valid beyond the parameters of it’s design. For example who fishes in distilled water? Who soaks their leader in water for 45 minutes and why was that time period chosen (was it chosen arbitrarily?) Leaders are in the water usually for no more than a few minutes and then dried – at least partially – by casting. Do we know the extent of saturation of a typical leader on an average day? What was the precise breaking strain of the mono before the knot was tied? What was the breaking strain of the knot? what was the degree of confidence in the test? None the less the relative breaking strains of the knots are informative. AND! George seems to have thrown down a gauntlet regarding the effectiveness of his knot goop. I for one would be fascinated by an independent before and after sort of comparison. Ralph H (just a simple dipshit 8^) ) "…      the sabbath rang slowly      in the pebbles of the holy streams!" Dylan Thomas, "Fern Hill"

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   Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly    (much blather snipped)     Please don’t waste our time by quoting the results of some knot test     that used your knot-liquid.  It is of no use since nobody I know would     bother with such a product streamside.    Considering the pompous and snotty nature of your posts, Tony, I can’t    imagine anyone I know bothering with such a product as *you*, streamside    or otherwise. Faced with a choice, George’s knot-goop wins hands down.    Spinolio It is extremely easy to see why you, based on your cumulative "contibutions" to date, would be intimidated by posts that demonstrate an active thought process. As for the streamside choice, I applaud your choosing knot-goop.  It is consistent with the fact that you don’t actually fish. _pompously_ yours,         -tgades — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html NOTICE: DO NOT ADD MY NAME TO _ANY_ MAILING LISTS.  

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example: The highly touted Orvis and monofilament loop knots are very strong when dry but fall far short of the uni-knot (Duncan knot) after the monofilament becomes wet.

Great post!!   I was wondering, you mention that the Orvis knot was "far short of the Uni-knot" but you didn’t give a percentage.  I tend to like the Orvis knot because of it’s ease in tying and the thought that it was so strong. Also, I think a comparision of Wet to Dry Knot strenths would be very interesting.  Do you have that kind of data?   I have never considered the Duncan Loop to be a very strong knot but your data does not support this idea. Once agin, thanks for the information and keep up the good work. Rick Richard Padgett

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(much blather snipped) Please don’t waste our time by quoting the results of some knot test that used your knot-liquid.  It is of no use since nobody I know would bother with such a product streamside.

Considering the pompous and snotty nature of your posts, Tony, I can’t imagine anyone I know bothering with such a product as *you*, streamside or otherwise. Faced with a choice, George’s knot-goop wins hands down. Spinolio

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..snip…. Our strain gauge device (calibrated to .001 lbs) has no opinions and gives us the following results on knots tied with dry monofilament that are then soaked in distilled water for 45 minutes at room temp.

…snip… Ralph, I am curious why you use 45 min. soaking. I can see wetting having one or more of several effects. 1) just surface coating which may affect surface tension or lubricity of the knots in some way and possibly affecting cinching or stress production in the knot and 2) interaction with the plastic polymer which would imply some sort of penetration into the plastic and a change of its physical characteristics. #1 would happen immediately upon wetting and #2 may be time-dependent based on the permeability of the plastic. A grey-zone might occur if #1 was the main effect but the water required time to penetrate the knot. It would be easy to test by looking at change in breaking strength over time of a wet strand in the absence of a knot. Any comments? Just curious. Jon

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  Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly   Organization: Gehrke’s Gink/Xink Fly Fishing Products Company   DEAR RALPH:  I disagree with the majority of your tests.   Mr. G.

Mr. Cutter clearly laid out the results of clearly explained experiments. There is nothing to "disagree" with unless you are claiming that he lied. Quote another test, its methods and results, and to make it useful to us, skip using that knot-goop because nobody is going to bother using such a product in the real world. A trilene knot (which I primarily use) has been shown repeatedly to have a breaking strength of 100%.  The 6x blood knot ranks in around 70%.  The perfection loop ranks in around 90-100%.  These results I’ve seen repeatedly.  These are the same results found by Mr. Cutter. I see no reason to disagree. Please don’t waste our time by quoting the results of some knot test that used your knot-liquid.  It is of no use since nobody I know would bother with such a product streamside. cheers,         -tony — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html NOTICE: DO NOT ADD MY NAME TO _ANY_ MAILING LISTS.  

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Larry-    Most knot strength tests are done with dry monofilament that is tied and tested while dry. This results in a meaningless number for anglers. As an example: The highly touted Orvis and monofilament loop knots are very strong when dry but fall far short of the uni-knot (Duncan knot) after the monofilament becomes wet.    Our strain gauge device (calibrated to .001 lbs) has no opinions and gives us the following results on knots tied with dry monofilament that are then soaked in distilled water for 45 minutes at room temp. The following percentages are the average of 20 knots tied from three different spools of factory fresh 3x Dai Rikki Velvet. Velvet was used because it has the most consistant breaking factor of any tippet material we have tested.    Loop Knots:    Bimini-100 percent, Uni knot- 96 percent, Monofilament loop- 87 percent, Perfection- 85 percent, 2X surgeons- 68 percent, 4X surgeons- 68 percent, 6X surgeons-81 percent, 7X surgeons-73 percent.    FYI: the best tippet to fly loop is the Uni knot at 96 percent.         the best tippet to fly non-loop is the Trilene knot at 100 percent.         the best mono to mono connection is the 6x blood knot at 68 percent.         the despised wind knot tests at a relatively strong 87 percent.

But of course.  This is the one I tie best.  Hey, if you have good eyes, they also make a half-way decent strike indicator!  :-)   -Ralph

Cheers, and tight lines. -Mark PS:  ’Love your book, Ralph.  It should be required reading for Sierra trout anglers.  Keep up the good work.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mr. Cutter clearly laid out the results of clearly explained experiments. There is nothing to "disagree" with unless you are claiming that he While I found the info interesting it has to be noted that no experiment is valid beyond the parameters of it’s design. For example who fishes in distilled water? Who soaks their leader in water for 45 minutes and why was that time period chosen (was it chosen arbitrarily?) Leaders are in the water usually for no more than a few minutes and then dried,at least partially by casting. Do we know the extent of saturation of a typical leader on an average day? What was the precise breaking strain of the mono before the knot was tied? What was the breaking strain of the knot? what was the degree of confidence in the test?

Hey dip…., You bring up some very valid points.  I don’t think the soaking time is important as long as the interval is consistant – the main thing is the line was wet (something I didn’t do when I performed a series of breaking tests). None the less the relative breaking strains of the knots are informative.

Yep, on a relative basis it is good information to know.  Regardless of what knot you use, I find one of the most important things is to make sure the knot is snugged up tight to prevent it from cutting into its’ self and breaking. -Burton — L. Burton Hawley         2330 NW Hummingbird Corvallis, OR

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Hi Larry-    Most knot strength tests are done with dry monofilament that is tied and tested while dry. This results in a meaningless number for anglers. As an example: The highly touted Orvis and monofilament loop knots are very strong when dry but fall far short of the uni-knot (Duncan knot) after the monofilament becomes wet.    Our strain gauge device (calibrated to .001 lbs) has no opinions and gives us the following results on knots tied with dry monofilament that are then soaked in distilled water for 45 minutes at room temp. The following percentages are the average of 20 knots tied from three different spools of factory fresh 3x Dai Rikki Velvet. Velvet was used because it has the most consistant breaking factor of any tippet material we have tested.    Loop Knots:    Bimini-100 percent, Uni knot- 96 percent, Monofilament loop- 87 percent, Perfection- 85 percent, 2X surgeons- 68 percent, 4X surgeons- 68 percent, 6X surgeons-81 percent, 7X surgeons-73 percent.    FYI: the best tippet to fly loop is the Uni knot at 96 percent.         the best tippet to fly non-loop is the Trilene knot at 100 percent.         the best mono to mono connection is the 6x blood knot at 68 percent.         the despised wind knot tests at a relatively strong 87 percent.   -Ralph

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Question:

I’m planning a trip to the Portland, Oregon area the first week of October.  Can anybody provide advice on rivers, lakes, oceans, etc. for fishing, including spin and bait fishing for sturgeon, walleyes, steelhead, etc.  I will also need a guide for one day.  Can anyone personally recommend someone? Thanks for your help, Mike

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I’m planning a trip to the Portland, Oregon area the first week of October.  Can anybody provide advice on rivers, lakes, oceans, etc. for

                                                        ^^^^^^ I’d suggest the Pacific, just for ease of access. — Derek R. Larson           Indiana University        Dept. of History                 "Nothing interesting occurred today…"         -Meriwether Lewis at Ft. Clatsop, Oregon, Jan.4th, 1806

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writes: I’m planning a trip to the Portland, Oregon area the first week of October.  Can anybody provide advice on rivers, lakes, oceans, etc. for fishing, including spin and bait fishing for sturgeon, walleyes, steelhead, etc.  I will also need a guide for one day.  Can anyone personally recommend someone?

    In that time slot, I’d try the Upper Clackamas for late summer steelhead and/or the Wilson for searun cutthroats, both pretty close to town.  Glenn Young of Beaverton OR is a very good guide for ffing in the Tillamook Bay area, but I can’t find his phone number –perhaps another ROFFer can supply it. –Roger, Portland

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: I’m planning a trip to the Portland, Oregon area the first week of October.  Can anybody provide advice on rivers, lakes, oceans, etc. for fishing, including spin and bait fishing for sturgeon, walleyes, steelhead, etc.  I will also need a guide for one day.  Can anyone personally recommend someone?    In that time slot, I’d try the Upper Clackamas for late summer steelhead and/or the Wilson for searun cutthroats, both pretty close to town.  Glenn Young of Beaverton OR is a very good guide for ffing in the Tillamook Bay area, but I can’t find his phone number –perhaps another ROFFer can supply it. –Roger, Portland

I show that the number is 503-642-4570 for Glenn Young. Don Chen Mid-Willamette Fly Fishers (Corvallis, Oregon)

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: I’m planning a trip to the Portland, Oregon area the first week of October.  Can anybody provide advice on rivers, lakes, oceans, etc. for fishing, including spin and bait fishing for sturgeon, walleyes, steelhead, etc.  I will also need a guide for one day.  Can anyone personally recommend someone?     In that time slot, I’d try the Upper Clackamas for late summer steelhead and/or the Wilson for searun cutthroats, both pretty close to town.  Glenn Young of Beaverton OR is a very good guide for ffing in the Tillamook Bay area, but I can’t find his phone number –perhaps another ROFFer can supply it. –Roger, Portland

You can contact Glenn at (503) 642-4570.  I’ve fished with Glenn a number of times and he is top notch and his rates are very reasonable. Be SURE to try the searun cutthroat–best fly rod fish in the state!! Paul

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That’s a pretty good time of year to try sight fishing to steelhead in the "skinny water" high up on any of the coastal rivers.   Greg in Albany – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: I’m planning a trip to the Portland, Oregon area the first week of October.  Can anybody provide advice on rivers, lakes, oceans, etc. for fishing, including spin and bait fishing for sturgeon, walleyes, steelhead, etc.  I will also need a guide for one day.  Can anyone personally recommend someone?    In that time slot, I’d try the Upper Clackamas for late summer steelhead and/or the Wilson for searun cutthroats, both pretty close to town.  Glenn Young of Beaverton OR is a very good guide for ffing in the Tillamook Bay area, but I can’t find his phone number –perhaps another ROFFer can supply it. –Roger, Portland

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   In that time slot, I’d try the Upper Clackamas for late summer steelhead and/or the Wilson for searun cutthroats, both pretty close to town.  Glenn Young of Beaverton OR is a very good guide for ffing in the Tillamook Bay area, but I can’t find his phone number –perhaps another ROFFer can supply it. –Roger, Portland

Glenn Young’s number: Hackle and Hide Glenn Young  (503)642-4570

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Question:

Today UPS showed at my door with my rod and a replacement tip. No Charge! What a surprise! It seems to be a much better tip than the first one as the spline is difficult to feel. Now it is back to the wrapping bench with a smile on my face and a BIG complement to Sage. What great service they have provided to me. I hope others have been just as satisified.

I was really pleased to hear this.  I use a custom built Sage rod and love it, but was thinking of going with Orvis on a new one because of warranty.  I hope the word gets to Sage haw important such service is to their sales.

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I have had a similarly positive experience with Sage. I broke the tip on my 366LL a couple of years ago and even though it was totally my fault, (slammed it with the truck tailgate) they fixed it for free. They have my loyalty. Kevin

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I had a positive (in my opinion) experience too.  I had a Nova (blemished Sage blank) 490LL and broke it while casting real hard.  Sage didn’t send me a free rod tip, but replced it at nominal expense (I forget the exact price, but it was like $25).  Given that it was a Nova and not a Sage, I was pleased.

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I have also had great service from SAGE, but at a price!  I broke the tip on a one year old 389LL and sent it to SAGE.  Much to my surprise, I received a replacement in 4 days.   Also to my surprise, I received a bill for $70 two weeks later.   Needless to say, my enthusiasm dropped.   With their "new" warranty policy, I guess I had bad timing.  

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Iguess I must be from the wrong side of the tracks. I broke the tip on a brand new Sage 4 piece, waited almost 6 weeks for a replacement ( most of the rest of my salmon season) and paid $34 US which  hurts after conversion to my currency. I can’t get too excited about this level of service.– Jack Botsford – Executive Director                      Tel (709) 722-3069 Newfoundland Alliance of Technical Industries           Fax (709) 722-3879 Box 41, Atlantic Place, 215 Water Street St. John’s, NF, CANADA  A1C 6C9

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Last June I purchased a Sage 4711 LLB blank from Patrick’s Fly Shop up in  Seattle, WA. I wrapped and finished it and a 497 RPL (I think). Took a month and a half to teach my wife (who says you can’t teach your honey) how to cast and went off to Northern Canada flyfishing. Came home and while over at the casting ponds, I asked if I could work with it. Well much to my surprise after a few casts it fractured just up from the joint. I’d been told that this might happen to two piece rods. None of this I blame on Sage’s part. I used 4wt line, but may have been casting too far. I called Patrick’s and asked about a replacement and was told to send it to Sage, which I did along with my story. And waited for a letter to advise me how much to send for the replacement. Today UPS showed at my door with my rod and a replacement tip. No Charge! What a surprise! It seems to be a much better tip than the first one as the spline is difficult to feel. Now it is back to the wrapping bench with a smile on my face and a BIG complement to Sage. What great service they have provided to me. I hope others have been just as satisified. —  Remember amateur astronomers: "keep looking for the next Universe"

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Question:

I just purchased a mint condition South Bend bamboo 9′ fly rod.  Does anyone know the value of a rod like this, or know how I can find out the value.  

Response:

I just purchased a mint condition South Bend bamboo 9′ fly rod.  Does anyone know the value of a rod like this, or know how I can find out the value.  

Len Codela of Turner’s Falls, Massachusetts can appraise it if you send it to him.  His current catalog lists South Bend rods anywhere from $100 or less to $400 or so.  There were many different levels of quality of South Bend rods. His prices are slightly high as he caters to collectors as much as fishers.  Call either 508 or 433-555-1212 to get his number I’m not sure which area code. As this is a fishing more than a collecting forum,  I say the real value is how it feels to fish.  Try out different lines with it if you can, then take it fishing.  If it sings the line out like poetry as smooth as twenty year Scotch, it’s priceless for fishing and that is it’s inspired destiny. Don’t incarcerate it. Mark Vinsel http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.html

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I just purchased a mint condition South Bend bamboo 9′ fly rod.  Does anyone know the value of a rod like this, or know how I can find out the value.  

I’ve got one of these guys.  There more valuable as a fishing tool, albeit a very heavy one, than they are collectible.  Interestingly the South Bend company was started by Wes Jordan (later of Orvis fame) though the rods produced were mediocre at best.  Still, I fish mine a couple of times a year for half a day or so (really a heavy rod).  I’d say go fish it!                                                                      Dan

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Question:

Seeking fishing experiences on the private waters of Oasis Springs, CA. Specifically: type of water, cost, lodge accomodations,  and maximum number permitted daily. Thanks, Norm Norm Hanami

Response:

Yes, I’ve fished Oasis Springs Ranch.  It was the dumbest trout

experience I have nothing good to say about this place. I didn’t like dealing with the people, to the point of feeling cheated. And, I’ve heard from others (I never actually got there, and lost my deposit) exactly what the other posts said. That is, there’s one decent stretch, it’s hatchery fish, and the brochure is full of bull. Jack Formerly

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Went there the first year to check it out.  Beautiful lodge.  Nice location.  Huge "native" fish with very rubbed noses and fins.  Oh well. Varied stretches of water, from deep pool to riffles & runs.  Also great fishing below PGE transfer pipe up one of the arms.  Struck me as an odd combination. . . Since then i’ve had several friends go there and have a great time.  They have all sorts of other distractions, tennis court, i think horse riding as well.  Good location for a weekend get away with a non-fishing SO or something.  There have been some intro classes up there for new fishers, also. just my #22 –jim *                                                     *

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Norm, I get a flyer from these folks about twice a year. Never tried ‘em, but it seems like a nice outfit. Try calling ‘em (800) 642-4150 or (916) 474-1943.

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Yes, I’ve fished Oasis Springs Ranch.  It was the dumbest trout experience I’ve ever had.  Caught endless numbers of of 4-6 lb. football shaped rainbows….straight out of some brood hatchery around Redding.  The waters? The brochure says "5 1/2 miles of prime stream.  It’s more like 400 yards of prime, since a PGE flume is a short distance above the lodge, which removes most of the water from the upper stream and shoots it back into the lower stream. (There is a dam just below the lodge, which is where the football shaped big ones hang out.  Give them anything black and ugly on a sinking line…they are stupid trout, and will apparently eat anything coming near the dam that looks like food.) The lodge itself is prime, and the grounds are pleasant, food better than average. My advice?  Take your signifigant other, have a restful time, but don’t expect a quality flyfishing experience.

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Does it have the same warranty as the rods? Just think of it,a 25 year warranty; drive the damn thing into a tree–get a NEW one!!!Get hit by a bus–get a NEW one!! Break your Orvis Rod, closing your Orvis Edition door–get a NEW rod and Jeep!!! I can’t understand where you see this becoming a problem.It’s not like Ralph Lauren is coming out with a POLO line of yuppie flyfishing clothes, with $225.+ mock flyfishing vests made in Shri Lanka(spelled wrong:you know the place where Orvis has their flies tied.); which someone got  80 cents to make with $4.00 worth of material, and are going to sell these at OUR finer stores for mear profit! Personally, I’d like to see ALOT of people buy them. Picture this, 25 Orvis Edition Jeeps in the parking lot.25 paranoid new Orvis Edition owners,fishing as close to the parking lot, as possible; to watch their $25,00 plus investments. Me, I’ll be 100 yards up stream–FISHING BY MYSELF!!!!!

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OK, so maybe I’m a little bit biased because my vest is an Orvis, a gift a couple years back, but if there’s one thing ALMOST as annoying as a bunch of yuppies brand name-dropping on the stream bank, it’s a bunch of anti-yuppies on the opposite bank throwing rocks at them.       People object to the conspicuous consumption, brand name set because this group of people seem to judge personal worth by what company made their clothing, gear, car, etc.  OK, no problems there with me; I hate that stuff, too.  But aren’t we doing the same thing when we start to feel that anyone who purchases anything from Orvis falls into the dreaded Y-word category?  Now WE are the ones who are judging personal worth based on a label.  We have thus become the anti-snob, which is the same thing in my book.   IMHO Orvis sells some worthwhile gear, and some of it is reasonably priced for the quality you get, like the Battenkill disk reels and their super-strong leader material (who really makes that stuff, anyway…anyone know?).  Some of the stuff is overpriced, but a savvy angler can pick and choose…it just means more catalogs to go through during the loooong winter, which to me sounds like a good way to spend my time  ;) Happy Winter Solistice (the days will be getting longer soon, only 3.5 months until opening day…)             Paul DiConza NY Capital District Angler

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