Question:

Hi, I can buy a Patrol 3.3 D, build 1986, km 220 000. I want to buy this car to get me and my caravan through the Alpes during the summer and next year to the North in Norwege. So the car has not much work to do frequently, but must do the job  during hollidays. I camp near rivers, do some flyfishing, so some `dirty work` on a riverbank is also a job that must be done… I`ve searched for some info on the internet, but can`t find anything. Anyone who can help me with some info about this car? TIA Regards, Henk J

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi, I can buy a Patrol 3.3 D, build 1986, km 220 000. I want to buy this car to get me and my caravan through the Alpes during the summer and next year to the North in Norwege. So the car has not much work to do frequently, but must do the job  during hollidays. I camp near rivers, do some flyfishing, so some `dirty work` on a riverbank is also a job that must be done… I`ve searched for some info on the internet, but can`t find anything. Anyone who can help me with some info about this car? TIA Regards, Henk J

Hi Henk, There is a Australian mailinglist for Nissan Patrols (and a general Australian newsgroup, aus.cars.offroad if you want, not many Patrol owners in r.a.4×4 I am afraid), see my homepage for a link (also the newsgroup in clickeable format): http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/main_4×4.htm (do a text search on ‘patrol’ and ‘newsgroup’) (posted & mailed) — Bye, Willem-Jan Markerink       The desire to understand is sometimes far less intelligent than      the inability to understand [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!]

Response:

Question:

Truely, here in ROFF, one man’s light is another’s lightening rod and we are all illumed by the interchange.

Well said, and while the occasional violent discharge may generate a lot of noise and smoke, the sound and the smell dissipate quickly. — Charlie…

Response:

I don’t think this is quite true. Many people here make every possible effort to help newbies and others at every opportunity, and also welcome new posters.  We also however have a duty as a group to see that misleading information, or bigoted or arbitrary ideas  are at least answered, and in some cases dashed to the ground at once. Continued exposure to such dangerous claptrap might infect the odd newbie or other poster to the extent that he believes at least some of it. This must be avoided at all costs.  Most anglers I know are decent kind generous people, and have no need or wish to spread poisonous or elitist ideas. They just mainly love fishing. They do not go around behaving like pariahs and foisting their ideas or opinions on others in an unpleasant way. It might be that you looked in at just the wrong moment. I do not have the impression that this is an exclusive club as you maintain.  I am rather surprised at the somewhat limited number of regular participants, considering the number of anglers out there, and that this is basically the only show in town, but this could be for a host of reasons, other than those you describe. The only person here in this particular case who started trying to exclude and ridicule people for all sorts of things, was the person you mentioned. There have not been many others, in fact at the moment I can not recall any others of this overt nature. A couple of rather nutty views and comments have been jumped upon immediately, but that is all. At one point every single post emanating from the particular source you mentioned was either misleading, untrue, defamatory, overbearing, bigoted, or otherwise insulting. This sort of thing is bound to cause retaliation to some extent, and a damn good thing too. This group is in my opinion usually very fair in its reactions as a whole. If someone is a racist or a bigot , then his views must be challenged and combated at every turn. The same goes for extremist views. They have no place in fly-fishing which as you say is a haven and a solace for everybody. Hope you have a nice trip. Tight lines ! MC

Response:

(a worthwhile perspective other than mine snipped) Barry, The very diversity of opinion on controversial subjects which gives you alarm is one of the strengths of this group.  What you see over and over is not the stringent "party line" of a narrow focused group, but rather the many colored viewpoints which strenghten our individual world views.  Truely, here in ROFF, one man’s light is another’s lightening rod and we are all illumed by the interchange. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

Yes well, perfectly true, I was rather of the same impression, but was also of the impression that I had spread more than enough shit myself recently, so refrained from the straightforward forthright path evident in your post. Agree with the sentiments though. Must admit to not having seen all that many worthwhile or camaraderie inducing posts from Barry either, but then who the hell am I to judge, just another loud mouthed asshole. But there again, at least my title was officially bestowed, ( and well earned I might add ! ) )) TL MC

Response:

Joe F: <<It is often said that ROFF is Darwinian, and that is certainly true, not from the "survival of the fittest" perspective that our frequent battles would imply; but because it is constantly evolving.   New folks come, some folks go, the subject of immediate interest keeps changing. (rest of excellent post snipped) Wish I had said that, Joe.  That is *exactly* what roff is all about.  Thank you. Louie http://cdesb.com/albolene.html

Response:

Oh well, that’s why I have message filters.

Yeah, for some the internet is a place where they feel they can say anything they please.  For others it is the only place that they have the power to hide from unpleasantness.  After all, that’s why you message filters.

Response:

Brian, Bullseye. Also, it’s obvious that the few loudmouths now dominating ROFF do not have enough knowledge about flyfishing to say much about it. Therefore, they are quick to change the subject.

I’m going to go way out on a limb here and guess that I may be perceived as one of those offensive loudmouths.  And your right, I don’t know enough about fly fishing to offer advice to my betters.  In fact I don’t know enough about ANYTHING to offer my services as a mentor to the world at large.  Your presence here coupled with your contempt for those who have nothing to offer suggests that you are in such a position.  I am delighted.  Please teach me. A popular off-topic twist is to spew on and on about beer and alcohol. So, add a few drinks and bottle of liquor to big egos that know little about flyfishing and you have a newsgroup that is like the current state of ROFF.

Most of the talk about drinking comes from a group who have individually and collectively shown themselves to be very knowledgeable and remarkably devoid of inflated ego.  One occasionally hears someone whine about what a clever bunch of people they think they are.  In fact, they ARE clever.  The exercise of their wit is often mistaken by the intellectually challenged as nastiness and inflated ego.  Damned shame, a lot of good stuff passes a whole bunch of people by. Nonetheless, it is sometimes entertaining.  In time, we’ll get some serious flyfishers back. Bob Elliott

Please recommend some serious fly fishers.  I’d like to see what one looks like.

Response:

Absolutely excellent post, and I believe the truest to date on this subject. Thank you very much indeed. TL MC

Response:

<sanctimonious sneer snipped Well, if it isn’t our old friend Barry, back to drop his second little incendiary device in about as many months and then scurry away as before with his superior morals tucked firmly up his tight ass. I read seventeen responses on this thread before beginning my own.  As usual the majority of respondents are a great deal more courteous and reasonable then your little slap in the face should have earned you.  Does the word irony mean anything to you Barry?  How many of the people you have denigrated here begin a thread by not so slyly telling the rest of us what assholes we are?  And how many of them then run away?  Do you really believe that your little diatribe contributes to the camaraderie you so miss from the good old days before the fractious loudmouths took over?  And just how was this thinly disguised tirade related to fly fishing? Generally speaking and despite your sophomoric conclusions, the majority here are not especially exclusionary.  However, I for one, would be delighted to make an exception in your case.  Note that there was very little gnashing of teeth and rending of clothing attendant upon your last departure.  One suspects there would be no more this time.  In the meantime here’s a little thought for you to mull over whenever you have a moment free from your self appointed labor of defending the moral high ground.  The world is full of people just like the evil folks you find here; there are even more like me!  And this is the only planet you’ll ever get to live on.  Welcome to Hell Barry! p.s.  You never did answer my question the last time your stuck your oh so superior head in the door.  You amy recall that we were discussing whether or not the native Americans should have their treaty rights revoked because nobody should have special privileges.  We ended with my asking you whether or not the playing field is level.  Well?  Is it? Note:  For those who found themselves in accord with Barry’s post.  There is little danger that he will respond to this post.  Last time he showed up he spewed forth his muddle headed position and then promptly disappeared when he was taken to task for it.  Presumably he will do so again.  It is not in his nature to sully himself by wading through the muck that he so freely strews about him.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It is often said that ROFF is Darwinian, and that is certainly true, not from the "survival of the fittest" perspective that our frequent battles would imply; but because it is constantly evolving.   New folks come, some folks go, the subject of immediate interest keeps changing.   The camaraderie we share goes on.   It is unreasonable, however, to expect the camaraderie to exist without the multitude of off-topic subjects we discuss. I’m as guilty as most, I suppose, but its the exploration of views, interests, and personalities outside our common interest that brings us together as friends.   Without it, we’re just boring and homogenous. I’m not a great fly fisherman.   I don’t have a lot to share on that subject compared to many here.   But these are great guys, and I enjoy hanging out here and sharing jokes and lies in between my occasional substantive on-topic contributions.   I’ve made friends here, a phenomenon that still astounds me.   If I say something stupid, I expect to be called on it or justifiably ridiculed.   I expect intelligent and opinionated discussion on any subject as if I were in person with "live" fly fishermen.   My fly fishing friends are not friends because they think like me or act like me or have only fishing in common with me.   They are my friends because we learn from each other, enjoy our differences, and debate serious issues with civility.   That is why ROFF is such a great place, and why I think you’re wrong in your conclusions. It’s just that the rules are different here.   When tempers flare, and they surely do, the opportunities for resolution are different than in real life. You can’t punch anybody in the nose, you can’t raise your voice, and you can’t make them leave.   Shouting and name calling are really the only avenue available to let off steam.   Frequent offenders receive frequent criticism and may be ostracized.   It’s usenet, what else are you gonna do? New visitors, in my experience, are welcomed with open arms and helpful advice.   Those that stay become "one of us" and we’re glad for the company. Some newbies start out as rectums right from the start and receive a less than warm welcome.   So be it.   There are too many people here with too many diverse opinions to get along all the time.   There’s a lot of crap I don’t like and don’t bother with, but that doesn’t define the group for me. We are the forum that makes the discussion possible among fly fishermen, and that’s what I like. Joe F.

Thanks Joe. I don’t think, no, I know I couldn’t have said it better. Tight lines to all you opinionated rascals! Walt — Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

Response:

There was a time when I posted regularly to ROFF and read most of the posts. I enjoyed the camaraderie that we all shared because of our love of fly fishing and the positive nature of the newsgroup.  <snip

It is often said that ROFF is Darwinian, and that is certainly true, not from the "survival of the fittest" perspective that our frequent battles would imply; but because it is constantly evolving.   New folks come, some folks go, the subject of immediate interest keeps changing.   The camaraderie we share goes on.   It is unreasonable, however, to expect the camaraderie to exist without the multitude of off-topic subjects we discuss. I’m as guilty as most, I suppose, but its the exploration of views, interests, and personalities outside our common interest that brings us together as friends.   Without it, we’re just boring and homogenous. I’m not a great fly fisherman.   I don’t have a lot to share on that subject compared to many here.   But these are great guys, and I enjoy hanging out here and sharing jokes and lies in between my occasional substantive on-topic contributions.   I’ve made friends here, a phenomenon that still astounds me.   If I say something stupid, I expect to be called on it or justifiably ridiculed.   I expect intelligent and opinionated discussion on any subject as if I were in person with "live" fly fishermen.   My fly fishing friends are not friends because they think like me or act like me or have only fishing in common with me.   They are my friends because we learn from each other, enjoy our differences, and debate serious issues with civility.   That is why ROFF is such a great place, and why I think you’re wrong in your conclusions. It’s just that the rules are different here.   When tempers flare, and they surely do, the opportunities for resolution are different than in real life. You can’t punch anybody in the nose, you can’t raise your voice, and you can’t make them leave.   Shouting and name calling are really the only avenue available to let off steam.   Frequent offenders receive frequent criticism and may be ostracized.   It’s usenet, what else are you gonna do? New visitors, in my experience, are welcomed with open arms and helpful advice.   Those that stay become "one of us" and we’re glad for the company. Some newbies start out as rectums right from the start and receive a less than warm welcome.   So be it.   There are too many people here with too many diverse opinions to get along all the time.   There’s a lot of crap I don’t like and don’t bother with, but that doesn’t define the group for me. We are the forum that makes the discussion possible among fly fishermen, and that’s what I like. Joe F.

Response:

tripper: <<Truely, here in ROFF, one man’s light is another’s lightening rod and we are all illumed by the interchange.

I was illumed by the interchange once. Cost me a bundle in repair bills… I got illumed in Subic Bay many years ago.  Pretty good, but it cost a helluva lot!  Risky too. Dave L.

Response:

wayno complains: (snip for brevity) <<wayno; a man not to be toyed with wayno, did I ever tell you about my good friend Michael Era

Question:

Carl, These boats differ in their performance.  The Delta, Acadia, Bayou, Keowee and Swifty are all "recreational boats".  The Delta and the Bayou are very similar in performance but one is longer than the other and tracks better. They both have flat hulls and are very good with initial stability but not very good secondary stability.  These boats will track better and be a bit faster than the Swifty and Keowee. The Swifty and Keowee are just knock around boats.  They don’t track well but do maneuver easily.  The Acadia is at the extreme low end of "touring kayaks"  It’s has a little more rocker on it but is made to get out into the easy ocean if desired.  It has good initial and secondary stability.  All of these boats will do flat water, easy class I/II rapids and paddle in bays well.  The Acadia, you can take a step further out in the easy ocean.

I’ve seen Swiftys and Keowees on class II, and I don’t think I’d say that they do it well.  Certainly people have fun in them, but…well, it depends on the class II, I guess.  I think that the more technical the river is, the less fun these boats will be.  Also, I’ve never seen anyone wear a skirt with these — it could be a pretty damp experience.   — ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::         "I would not exchange the sorrows of my heart                 for the joys of the multitude"

Response:

Yes it does depend on the river.  The Chattahoochee in Atlanta would be fine but something that is more technical would not.  That’s why I said easy class I/II rapids.  People have the option of purchasing a skirt with these boats.  The companies make skirts that fit each one.  If a person tells me they want to run some easy class I/II as well as flat water, I tell them they may want to purchase a skirt with it to keep the water out.  On the other hand if they just want to do flat water, there’s no need for a skirt unless they want to get a mini-skirt for splash or paddle drip. Courtney Rapid Adventures – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve seen Swiftys and Keowees on class II, and I don’t think I’d say that they do it well.  Certainly people have fun in them, but…well, it depends on the class II, I guess.  I think that the more technical the river is, the less fun these boats will be.  Also, I’ve never seen anyone wear a skirt with these — it could be a pretty damp experience.

Response:

You can get into a Swifty and yes it will float but it will sit lower in the water and be sluggish.  The Delta would be a better boat for doing what you are wanting to do and be more in your weight range.  If you really liked it, go for it.  It’s a great boat and I’m sure you won’t be disappointed. Courtney Rapid Adventures – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear Courtney WOW- what a great reply…..thanks SO VERY MUCH!!!! As a follow-up- being 6-01/245- will the Swiftie float ??  If so, I think it would be an ideal 1st boat for me…..going to the kids later (if I like it enough to spend more $$$$$)  All I want to do at this point is paddle out a little, or paddle upstream a little (slow river) and flyfish for Bass/Panfish on the way back. I do have to admit though- out of the Delta and Bayou- I liked the Delta MUCH better.  The Bayou just seemed a little squirley compared to the Delta.  I even sat back and pulled my legs out and dangled them in the water in the Delta. A nice way to float down stream .  Couldn’t do that in the Bayou. I guess the thing that keeps me fluctuating towards Perception is their cool web site- maybe their boats are as cool??  Haven’t seen one though- other than on the web . Thanks again!! Carl

Response:

Dear Courtney WOW- what a great reply…..thanks SO VERY MUCH!!!! As a follow-up- being 6-01/245- will the Swiftie float ??  If so, I think it would be an ideal 1st boat for me…..going to the kids later (if I like it enough to spend more $$$$$)  All I want to do at this point is paddle out a little, or paddle upstream a little (slow river) and flyfish for Bass/Panfish on the way back. I do have to admit though- out of the Delta and Bayou- I liked the Delta MUCH better.  The Bayou just seemed a little squirley compared to the Delta.  I even sat back and pulled my legs out and dangled them in the water in the Delta.  A nice way to float down stream .  Couldn’t do that in the Bayou. I guess the thing that keeps me fluctuating towards Perception is their cool web site- maybe their boats are as cool??  Haven’t seen one though- other than on the web . Thanks again!! Carl – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Carl, These boats differ in their performance.  The Delta, Acadia, Bayou, Keowee and Swifty are all "recreational boats".  The Delta and the Bayou are very similar in performance but one is longer than the other and tracks better. They both have flat hulls and are very good with initial stability but not very good secondary stability.  These boats will track better and be a bit faster than the Swifty and Keowee. The Swifty and Keowee are just knock around boats.  They don’t track well but do maneuver easily.  The Acadia is at the extreme low end of "touring kayaks"  It’s has a little more rocker on it but is made to get out into the easy ocean if desired.  It has good initial and secondary stability.  All of these boats will do flat water, easy class I/II rapids and paddle in bays well.  The Acadia, you can take a step further out in the easy ocean. As for the Carolina and Chinook, they are both Touring (sea) kayaks.  They track very well but are harder to turn.  Normally they will come with a rudder to help you with this.  They are both much faster than the above mentioned kayaks.  They have very good initial and secondary stability and both perform beautiful on flat water, easy class I/II rivers, bays and out in the ocean.  Their intended purpose is for actual sea kayaking, flat water and easy rivers. Both companies hold a good warranty (I think 3 years).  Dagger plastic is made of Excel polyethylene whereas Perception is made of Linear. Technically Excel is stronger but both plastics are very good.  Wilderness Systems material is made up of Crosslink.  This is the strongest of materials but a little heavier. Since you tried the Delta and liked it but didn’t like the Bayou, you may also check out the Wilderness Systems Manteo.  You may find you like it a whole lot better than the Pungo.  The hull on these boats are called a tri-hull.  They have excellent initial and secondary stability and track very well.  I have known several people to take them on all the above mentioned waters but they did get a bit nervous when out in the ocean and the waves got big or choppy. If you’re looking at a used boat, take a look to see that the top of the boat is the same color as the bottom of the boat.  People store their kayaks outside allot and the UV rays break down the plastic over time.  If stored indoors the plastic condition should be fine.  Also look for oil canning (where the boat has a bow in it somewhere on the hull, usually under the seat).  I little bow is o.k. but if it looks really wavy, the plastic is getting warn and doesn’t have too much time left before it cracks.   Look for deep gouges as well.  There will always be scratches on a boat and that’s fine but DEEP gouges can be a sign of trouble on the horizon depending on where these gouges are.  For instance, under the seat would be a bad place. Out of all of these boats, I would focus on the Delta, Acadia and Manteo if not planning on really getting out into the ocean.  The Manteo does great in waves and flat water, the Acadia the same but less initial stability and the Delta does better in flat water due to the good initial stability but not that much secondary and is not as wave friendly. If planning on going into the ocean, either the Carolina or Chinook would be good.  I personally like the Carolina the best because of it’s stability and performance. Hope this helped and sorry it’s so long.  I work in a boat store and sell these boats every day and it’s hard to narrow it down to two sentences. Courtney Rapid Adventures Hi: I’m a long time paddler (canoe) that’s brand new to kayaks…..but I’m hooked Tested the Delta today and loved it….haven’t seen the Acadia or Carolina, however from the web the Acadia seems almost exactly like the Delta.  What are your thoughts….which is a better company (product, fit and finish, warranty, support etc) and which is a better boat?  To complicate matters another shop has a used Perception Chinook for the same price as these new boats……. Also, I’m 6′01" and 245lbs…..any large kayakers try the Keowee or even the Swiftie?  I did paddle the WS Pongo and the Dagger Bayou and did not like either (for different reasons). I know this is a long message, but I do hop there are some out there that will have the time to respond…..I’m hopelessly confused Carl

Response:

Carl – Did you try also posting your message to the following newsgroup? rec.boats.paddle.touring You might reach more users who could help you out there. Good luck! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I wanted to thank the two newsgroup members above- they were the only replies to my post.  For the rest of you, PLEASE help me with opinions.  I have no kayak background and thought that this would be the perfect forum to get experienced responses.  My original post is below:- (My sole (current) ambition is to paddle a mile or so upstream and fly-fish downstream)) Hi: I’m a long time paddler (canoe) that’s brand new to kayaks…..but I’m hooked Tested the Delta today and loved it….haven’t seen the Acadia or Carolina, however from the web the Acadia seems almost exactly like the Delta.  What are your thoughts….which is a better company (product, fit and finish, warranty, support etc) and which is a better boat?  To complicate matters another shop has a used Perception Chinook for the same price as these new boats……. Also, I’m 6′01" and 245lbs…..any large kayakers try the Keowee or even the Swiftie?  I did paddle the WS Pongo and the Dagger Bayou and did not like either (for different reasons). I know this is a long message, but I do hop there are some out there that will have the time to respond…..I’m hopelessly confused Carl

Sue

Response:

Carl, These boats differ in their performance.  The Delta, Acadia, Bayou, Keowee and Swifty are all "recreational boats".  The Delta and the Bayou are very similar in performance but one is longer than the other and tracks better. They both have flat hulls and are very good with initial stability but not very good secondary stability.  These boats will track better and be a bit faster than the Swifty and Keowee. The Swifty and Keowee are just knock around boats.  They don’t track well but do maneuver easily.  The Acadia is at the extreme low end of "touring kayaks"  It’s has a little more rocker on it but is made to get out into the easy ocean if desired.  It has good initial and secondary stability.  All of these boats will do flat water, easy class I/II rapids and paddle in bays well.  The Acadia, you can take a step further out in the easy ocean. As for the Carolina and Chinook, they are both Touring (sea) kayaks.  They track very well but are harder to turn.  Normally they will come with a rudder to help you with this.  They are both much faster than the above mentioned kayaks.  They have very good initial and secondary stability and both perform beautiful on flat water, easy class I/II rivers, bays and out in the ocean.  Their intended purpose is for actual sea kayaking, flat water and easy rivers. Both companies hold a good warranty (I think 3 years).  Dagger plastic is made of Excel polyethylene whereas Perception is made of Linear. Technically Excel is stronger but both plastics are very good.  Wilderness Systems material is made up of Crosslink.  This is the strongest of materials but a little heavier. Since you tried the Delta and liked it but didn’t like the Bayou, you may also check out the Wilderness Systems Manteo.  You may find you like it a whole lot better than the Pungo.  The hull on these boats are called a tri-hull.  They have excellent initial and secondary stability and track very well.  I have known several people to take them on all the above mentioned waters but they did get a bit nervous when out in the ocean and the waves got big or choppy. If you’re looking at a used boat, take a look to see that the top of the boat is the same color as the bottom of the boat.  People store their kayaks outside allot and the UV rays break down the plastic over time.  If stored indoors the plastic condition should be fine.  Also look for oil canning (where the boat has a bow in it somewhere on the hull, usually under the seat).  I little bow is o.k. but if it looks really wavy, the plastic is getting warn and doesn’t have too much time left before it cracks.   Look for deep gouges as well.  There will always be scratches on a boat and that’s fine but DEEP gouges can be a sign of trouble on the horizon depending on where these gouges are.  For instance, under the seat would be a bad place. Out of all of these boats, I would focus on the Delta, Acadia and Manteo if not planning on really getting out into the ocean.  The Manteo does great in waves and flat water, the Acadia the same but less initial stability and the Delta does better in flat water due to the good initial stability but not that much secondary and is not as wave friendly. If planning on going into the ocean, either the Carolina or Chinook would be good.  I personally like the Carolina the best because of it’s stability and performance. Hope this helped and sorry it’s so long.  I work in a boat store and sell these boats every day and it’s hard to narrow it down to two sentences. Courtney Rapid Adventures – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi: I’m a long time paddler (canoe) that’s brand new to kayaks…..but I’m hooked Tested the Delta today and loved it….haven’t seen the Acadia or Carolina, however from the web the Acadia seems almost exactly like the Delta.  What are your thoughts….which is a better company (product, fit and finish, warranty, support etc) and which is a better boat?  To complicate matters another shop has a used Perception Chinook for the same price as these new boats……. Also, I’m 6′01" and 245lbs…..any large kayakers try the Keowee or even the Swiftie?  I did paddle the WS Pongo and the Dagger Bayou and did not like either (for different reasons). I know this is a long message, but I do hop there are some out there that will have the time to respond…..I’m hopelessly confused Carl

Response:

I wanted to thank the two newsgroup members above- they were the only replies to my post.  For the rest of you, PLEASE help me with opinions.  I have no kayak background and thought that this would be the perfect forum to get experienced responses.  My original post is below:- (My sole (current) ambition is to paddle a mile or so upstream and fly-fish downstream)) Hi: I’m a long time paddler (canoe) that’s brand new to kayaks…..but I’m hooked Tested the Delta today and loved it….haven’t seen the Acadia or Carolina, however from the web the Acadia seems almost exactly like the Delta.  What are your thoughts….which is a better company (product, fit and finish, warranty, support etc) and which is a better boat?  To complicate matters another shop has a used Perception Chinook for the same price as these new boats……. Also, I’m 6′01" and 245lbs…..any large kayakers try the Keowee or even the Swiftie?  I did paddle the WS Pongo and the Dagger Bayou and did not like either (for different reasons). I know this is a long message, but I do hop there are some out there that will have the time to respond…..I’m hopelessly confused Carl

Response:

Hi: I’m a long time paddler (canoe) that’s brand new to kayaks…..but I’m hooked Tested the Delta today and loved it….haven’t seen the Acadia or Carolina, however from the web the Acadia seems almost exactly like the Delta.  What are your thoughts….which is a better company (product, fit and finish, warranty, support etc) and which is a better boat?  To complicate matters another shop has a used Perception Chinook for the same price as these new boats……. Also, I’m 6′01" and 245lbs…..any large kayakers try the Keowee or even the Swiftie?  I did paddle the WS Pongo and the Dagger Bayou and did not like either (for different reasons). I know this is a long message, but I do hop there are some out there that will have the time to respond…..I’m hopelessly confused Carl

Response:

paddled the Carolina in a Basic Sea Kayaking course and was pleased with it. It was my first time kayaking and I had no problems.  It is 25 1/4 inches wide so it will be more tippy than the Delta I believe.  I would be reluctant to paddle a kayak with out some instruction.  Oh, I almost forgot, I am 6′ 2" and found the Carolina a little too scrunched up for my legs.  I rented a Current Designs Storm (17′ l  24"w) today and the leg room was better and it was fast, but it was extremely heavy.  Hope this helps some.

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I have had two Dagger white water boats and have had no complaints about their fit or finish. Are you pretty much decided on a day-tripping boat? There are a number of choices out there, in a number of lengths, and it is easy to get "analysis paralysis". Check out the paddling shops in your area and find out about rentals and demo days. Get hooked up with a paddling club or two and you can get exposure to a number of different boats and opinions. Many folks have more than one and might be willing to help you compare. Don’t worry about making the choice. You’re really just buying your *first* kayak, anyway . (ps- one of the boats I have is a Wilderness Systems Seacret, which is plenty wide (I’m 6′1" and weigh 205) and has lots of foot room, and was surprisingly maneuverable and quick… I bought it to serve as a fishing photo platform, but really like it generally. Check and see when the outfitters in your area are selling used equipment…worked for me, and I got it half price! Good luck! — paddlrat living proof that rats can swim! Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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Question:

I’ll be in Cork, Ireland the week of May 10th and am trying to decide whether or not to stay a few extra days for some flyfishing for native browns. I ran the standard searches thru dejanews and hotbot and found some interesting March salmon info but not much for May browns. I called the Cork fisheries guy for some info but any suggestions for books or web sites or guides or lodges? Thanks, Doug

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Get hold of PeterO’Reilly’s books on the Rivers; Loughs and Flies of Ireland (all published by Merlin Unwin books). The Suir, in Co. Waterford (east of Co. Cork) is -in many opinions- one of the best wild brown trout rivers in Europe. Try Andrew Ryan at www.flyfishingireland.com Tight lines Tony D – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ll be in Cork, Ireland the week of May 10th …. etc. (snipped)

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Question:

I’m thinking about buying a Sage rod. Since I live in Seattle, I was thinking about visiting the Sage factory on Bainbridge and seeing if they sell anything direct from the factory that I might be able to get at a lower cost. Has anybody tried this? Does Sage even have a customer facility at their factory on Bainbridge? I checked their website, but found no guidance there.

You found no guidance because Sage has a dirty little secret.  They do not make any rods in Seattle.  All they do is relabel Orvis’s seconds. All the best conspiracy theories are utterly groundless. Keep your stick on the ice, Thos.

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Anybody know if GLoomis does factory tours / sells seconds(blems) since they are also in Washington (abeit the Southern end). Hatch – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m thinking about buying a Sage rod. Since I live in Seattle, I was thinking about visiting the Sage factory on Bainbridge and seeing if they sell anything direct from the factory that I might be able to get at a lower cost. Has anybody tried this? Does Sage even have a customer facility at their factory on Bainbridge? I checked their website, but found no guidance there. Thanks in advance, Sid remove thisaint for email

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m thinking about buying a Sage rod. Since I live in Seattle, I was thinking about visiting the Sage factory on Bainbridge and seeing if they sell anything direct from the factory that I might be able to get at a lower cost. Has anybody tried this? Does Sage even have a customer facility at their factory on Bainbridge? I checked their website, but found no guidance there. You found no guidance because Sage has a dirty little secret.  They do not make any rods in Seattle.  All they do is relabel Orvis’s seconds. All the best conspiracy theories are utterly groundless. Keep your stick on the ice, Thos.

Orvis rods are built by St. Croix.

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Yea they do, but I am not sure there prices are all that great.  If you are real serious and can build something with your hands, then you need to look at Sage seconds on their blanks.  A store in Seattle, I beleive it is Anthony’s Fly Shop (if that ends up being wrong, let me know and I will see if I can dig up the correct info) used to sell Sage second blanks for $80.  I built my first one this way and I love it. Just a thought, Curtis – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anybody know if GLoomis does factory tours / sells seconds(blems) since they are also in Washington (abeit the Southern end). Hatch I’m thinking about buying a Sage rod. Since I live in Seattle, I was thinking about visiting the Sage factory on Bainbridge and seeing if they sell anything direct from the factory that I might be able to get at a lower cost. Has anybody tried this? Does Sage even have a customer facility at their factory on Bainbridge? I checked their website, but found no guidance there. Thanks in advance, Sid remove thisaint for email

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I believe it is actually Patrick’s Fly Shop in Seattle (on Eastlake Avenue) that sells Sage seconds. They’re pretty close to the Eastlake Zoo tavern, if that helps (and I know it helps me). Sid remove thisain for email replies – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yea they do, but I am not sure there prices are all that great.  If you are real serious and can build something with your hands, then you need to look at Sage seconds on their blanks.  A store in Seattle, I beleive it is Anthony’s Fly Shop (if that ends up being wrong, let me know and I will see if I can dig up the correct info) used to sell Sage second blanks for $80.  I built my first one this way and I love it. Just a thought, Curtis Anybody know if GLoomis does factory tours / sells seconds(blems) since they are also in Washington (abeit the Southern end). Hatch I’m thinking about buying a Sage rod. Since I live in Seattle, I was thinking about visiting the Sage factory on Bainbridge and seeing if they sell anything direct from the factory that I might be able to get at a lower cost. Has anybody tried this? Does Sage even have a customer facility at their factory on Bainbridge? I checked their website, but found no guidance there. Thanks in advance, Sid remove thisaint for email

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I’m thinking about buying a Sage rod. Since I live in Seattle, I was thinking about visiting the Sage factory on Bainbridge and seeing if they sell anything direct from the factory that I might be able to get at a lower cost. Has anybody tried this? Does Sage even have a customer facility at their factory on Bainbridge? I checked their website, but found no guidance there.

I stopped by the Sage factory yesterday. Nice place with a casting pool behind. Does anyone know how a rod factory got built in such prime land. Ron Looi www.geocities.com/RainForest/2730/

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I’m thinking about buying a Sage rod. Since I live in Seattle, I was thinking about visiting the Sage factory on Bainbridge and seeing if they sell anything direct from the factory that I might be able to get at a lower cost. Has anybody tried this? Does Sage even have a customer facility at their factory on Bainbridge? I checked their website, but found no guidance there. Thanks in advance, Sid remove thisaint for email

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I’m thinking about buying a Sage rod. Since I live in Seattle, I was thinking about visiting the Sage factory on Bainbridge and seeing if they sell anything direct from the factory that I might be able to get at a lower cost. Has anybody tried this? Does Sage even have a customer facility at their factory on Bainbridge? I checked their website, but found no guidance there. Thanks in advance, Sid remove thisaint for email

Hi Sid, Sage does not sell direct or from the factory. The best bet is to get a blank if you are looking to save money. Get a part time job in a fly shop? Open a fly shop? Date a girl who’s father has a fly shop? Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

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Do you have a daugther available?   On second thought, my wife my object and she’s been pretty supportive of my fishing "habit" so far.  ;-) Hatch – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m thinking about buying a Sage rod. Since I live in Seattle, I was thinking about visiting the Sage factory on Bainbridge and seeing if they sell anything direct from the factory that I might be able to get at a lower cost. Has anybody tried this? Does Sage even have a customer facility at their factory on Bainbridge? I checked their website, but found no guidance there. Thanks in advance, Sid remove thisaint for email Hi Sid, Sage does not sell direct or from the factory. The best bet is to get a blank if you are looking to save money. Get a part time job in a fly shop? Open a fly shop? Date a girl who’s father has a fly shop? Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

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I’m thinking about buying a Sage rod. Since I live in Seattle, … and seeing if they sell anything direct from the factory that I might be able to get at a lower cost. Date a girl who’s father has a fly shop?

Rather few and far between! most of the fly shop owners proprietors of my acquaintence are too obsessed with FF to have time for things as mundane as wives, families or sex. Ralph H

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Question:

As far as catching grayling, it may make a difference where you will be fishing. I have fished the Alaska Peninsula for grayling several times.  In those waters I have used humpies, elk hair caddis (black body), and brown drake patterns with the most success.  All flies were tied on no. 12 hooks.  The guide I was with liked the irresistable. To a lesser extent, we have taken   grayling with a Royal Coachman and have had those fish hit a deer hair mouse while fishing for rainbows. Interestingly, almost all articles I have read mention using black gnats for grayling.  For all the times I have tried these flies, I have *never* caught a grayling with one.  Consequently, I have a bunch of these that don’t seem to have a use. Always hit it like you mean it, Steve  

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Could someone recommend some patterns for arctic grayling?  I went out for them a couple of years ago and had a great time.  I want to go again this year and could use some advice on patterns and tactics.

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 Could someone recommend some patterns for arctic grayling?  I went out for  them a couple of years ago and had a great time.  I want to go again this  year and could use some advice on patterns and tactics.

We have had great success with caddis patterns, particularly Elk Hair Caddis size 12 and 14. However, the Grayling need time to come up from the bottom so give the drift a chance. They will often take the dry as it goes under at the turn. Don’t be afraid to wake the fly in short retrieves back to you.

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Could someone recommend some patterns for arctic grayling?  I went out for them a couple of years ago and had a great time.  I want to go again this year and could use some advice on patterns and tactics.

They’re not really sophisticated, especially in Alaska, the Yukon or NWT. I had one take a #2 streamer meant for pike Use a fly you can see – for dries, try the Wulff series, Humpies, or the dry version of a black gnat, all in sizes 8-14. In lakes, they like to congregate where the wind accumulates surface scum – reefs (e.g. in Great Slave) are great. For streams, just think of them as a really dumb (but beautiful) trout. One key note – on dries, they tend to rise in a corkscrew spiral (perhaps their vision is poor). They sometimes miss the fly, and have to take a second try. Don’t strike too soon. — 3798 Woodland Drive     voice: (604) 368-9315 Trail, BC               data:  (604) 368-9341

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I

Question:

Hi In reviewing the Fly Tackle Dealer magazine, I see an add for the Fly Tech company.  They make waders for the whole family from large to very small. The add says to call them at 800-590-2053 and ask for their local distributor. Good Luck! Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (catalog avail)

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Cabela’s has then in 1000 denier cordura for about $175. FYI. Don’t know what price your looking for but this is less than the $300 you mentioned. Bill C. Alpharetta, Ga. USA 30201

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Question:

Hello! I’m about ready to buy a mess of flyfishing stuff on a budget. The rod, reel and line are my first consideration.  After several FF trips using an old fiberglass rod, and borrowing a Cabela’s Sweetwater outfit (8′ 6"  6wt  2pc  96% graphite), I believe the combo I want is a 8 foot, 4 piece, 4-5 weight with matching reel and line.  I want it small enough to perform well in small mountain streams (like in Shenandoah NP) as well as be satisfactory in as many other situations as possible.  4 piece cause I want to hike with it, moderate action.  So far my choices are:         From Cabelas ‘96 FF catalog:            1  Fish Eagle Traditional Combo   $153               8′ 4wt  4pc  moderate action                     walnut seats, silv plated hardware, stainless steel                   double foot snake guides (chrome finish).  Al oxide               stripper guide w ceramic insert               include cahill reel + cortland 333 line + backing            2  Willow Creek Pack Rod Combo    $90 !               8′ 4-5wt  4 pc  96% graph                 cahill reel + WF line + backing         3  St Croix 8′ 4-5wt mod action  Imperial travel Rod 4 pc            $135 rod only  SC33 Graphite (33m mod)            Any comments on these?  I’m kind of leaning toward the Fish Eagle Traditional right now.  I’m hoping to keep the whole deal around $100-200.  Any other suggestions?  How about Sage or Orvis low end stuff? T & T ? Next is the other essentials:  stockingfoots, boots, vest, glasses. I’d love for the stockingfoots and boots to be as packable as possible.   I’m pretty sure that the Cabelas 3mm neoprene stockingfoots and their Three Forks wading Boot are a decent choice.  How about their 2mm  SuperLite neoprene stockingfoots?  They say they are ideal for backpacking.  Are they durable and warm enough for three season use?  I heard that the actual foot area of the waders are a little vulnerable (3mm).  3mm = $60, 2mm = $70, Three Forks = $45. Cabelas entry level Willow Creek Vest sounds reasonable for $40.  I don’t want too many pockets to mess with, just something simple comfortable and durable.  It says it has a rear pouch, but is it zippered?   Cabelas Pro Angler Sunglasses for $15?  Decent? Any suggestions and comments are appreciated! Pls email replies. C’mooooooooon spring. Thanks, Jim — The above opinions are factual.

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Hello! I’m about ready to buy a mess of flyfishing stuff on a budget. The rod, reel and line are my first consideration.  After several FF trips using an old fiberglass rod, and borrowing a Cabela’s

etc. Personally, I would stick to one of the lower Orvis or LL Bean packages. You can save some money and get good merchandise. Other good choices other than the ones you mentioned are Scott and Lamiglas. I don’t think Lamiglas gets enough "press" as they make some good rods.  You might be best off (in my humble opinion) in spending more for the rod now, and get a cheap reel. Unless you are battling Salmon or Bonefish, the reel is only a place to store the line. You could always use it for an extra when you get a better reel. I am still using the old Orvis madison reel I bought 15 years ago, but it mounts on one of my Winston rods. I’ve never really had the desire to replace it. But then again, I am still driving the new car I bought in 1984 too!

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I’ve been very satisfied with my 5 weight Loomis combined with an inexpensive but well crafted scientific anglers reel.  The two totaled together around $300.  LL Bean makes a pretty good rod.  But stay away

Please tell us more about your opinion of Bean’s reels.  Have you had problems with them?

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At one time they sold some reals made by STH in Argentina…as did Orvis…and from what I saw they were not very good reels

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Question:

writes:    A lot of people are touting the blood knot.

For more interesting reading on knots, including blood knots, try the current issue of FLY FISHERMEN where their test indicate that only two knots retain 100% line strength, given current tippet materials: the Palomar and the Trilene knot. Very interesting…

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I gave up on the clinch and trilene this year because they kept pulling out on big fish, despite very cautious tying. I quit using them because I decided

Without commenting on which knots are best, let me point out that most break-offs will occur at a knot, no matter which knot you use.  The UIAA routinely tests mountaineering ropes, and this is common knowlege to such testing agencies.  It makes intuitive sense when you think about it: stress is concentrated at the bends in a knot. — -Wayne Trzyna

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  A lot of people are touting the blood knot. Blood knots are not as good as they used to be! The newer multi polymer monofilaments are so hard and slick, the blood knot (and the clinch, inproved clinch, and Trilene knots) does not bite. We have a very sophisticated (read expensive) motor driven strain guage device that tests lines and knots to .01 pounds. 7 turn blood knots on Orvis SSS, Dai Riki, and Umpqua pull themselves apart at somewhere around 60-70% of the material breaking strength.

Ralph, I’ve abandoned the blood-knot alltogether because I’ve noticed an alarming decrease in strength in that connection with the new leader materials in recent years. I was beginning to fear that my own ability to tie the knot effectively had diminished, but your breaking strength measurements tell the real story. I now use the double-surgeon’s knot to connect the tapering segments of my leader and the double-surgeon’s loop-to-loop connection to attach tippets. Have you had the opportunity to measure the breaking strength of double-surgeons knots? Does the triple-surgeon’s provide significant additional strength? Thanks, Fred

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  A lot of people are touting the blood knot. Blood knots are not as good as they used to be! The newer multi polymer monofilaments are so hard and slick, the blood knot (and the clinch, inproved clinch, and Trilene knots) does not bite. We have a very sophisticated (read expensive) motor driven strain guage device that tests lines and knots to .01 pounds. 7 turn blood knots on Orvis SSS, Dai Riki, and Umpqua pull themselves apart at somewhere around 60-70% of the material breaking strength.

I gave up on the clinch and trilene this year because they kept pulling out on big fish, despite very cautious tying. I quit using them because I decided that after all these years of using them I must have lost the ability to tie them properly ! I never suspected the mono may be a contributing factor. Used the non-slip mono loop all year and it worked pretty well for me. I use double surgeon’s loops to join tippet to butt (when I use a butt).                                                 jc

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7 turn blood knots on Orvis SSS, Dai Riki, and Umpqua pull themselves apart at somewhere around 60-70% of the material breaking strength. Ralph,

Thanks for telling me the names of leader material to avoid when constructing tapered leaders. Ernie Harrison

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   A lot of people are touting the blood knot. Blood knots are not as good as they used to be! The newer multi polymer monofilaments are so hard and slick, the blood knot (and the clinch, inproved clinch, and Trilene knots) does not bite. We have a very sophisticated (read expensive) motor driven strain guage device that tests lines and knots to .01 pounds. 7 turn blood knots on Orvis SSS, Dai Riki, and Umpqua pull themselves apart at somewhere around 60-70% of the material breaking strength. I gave up on the clinch and trilene this year because they kept pulling out on big fish, despite very cautious tying. I quit using them because I decided that after all these years of using them I must have lost the ability to tie them properly ! I never suspected the mono may be a contributing factor. Used the non-slip mono loop all year and it worked pretty well for me. I use double surgeon’s loops to join tippet to butt (when I use a butt).                       jc

I’ve noticed the same thing with blood knots!  Thanks for the explanation.  I replaced the blood knot with the triple surgeons knot for any line/line connection.  According to a recent study, this line holds 100% of the weaker lines strength, wet or dry.  It’s simple to tie.  The only problem is that the any of the popular "double line through the eye" knots seem to be about the strongest, most durable knot I can find.  Anyone got a very strong, non-tightening loop knot as I fish for Stripers and like the free swing for the fly.  Most loops that I tie either slip or break and I’m looking for alternatives.  Most tippets I use are from 12-24lb Dai Rikki.  Thanks.     Tim —- "Just say no to bait"

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Hi Dan! Thanks for the kind words regarding the slide show.         Re: blood knots. Your formula for X number of turns for X size tippet is rational.          We lubricate the line with KY jelly (it is water soluble unlike silicone) prior to drawing up the knots. Then we soak the line in water to a). remove the lubricant, and b) to test the wet strength of the line and knot. It defies common sense to depend on dry strength for fishing line; however, I’ve NEVER seen anyone else do it.          Wet testing demonstrates some pretty wierd changes in tippet diameter, static strength, dynamic strength, stretch, and abraision resistance. The fluorocarbon lines really shine when compared against standard nylon and multi polymer monofilaments.         You probably want to know what leaders I use?! Umpqua pre tapered leaders because I get them at cost. I replace the tippet section with Dai Rikki Velvet for normal (trout) conditions or with Dai Rikki Diver when I need abraision resistance (toothy critters or abraisive bottom structure).         Tight lines, Ralph —

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   A lot of people are touting the blood knot. Blood knots are not as good as they used to be! The newer multi polymer monofilaments are so hard and slick, the blood knot (and the clinch, inproved clinch, and Trilene knots) does not bite. We have a very sophisticated (read expensive) motor driven strain guage device that tests lines and knots to .01 pounds. 7 turn blood knots on Orvis SSS, Dai Riki, and Umpqua pull themselves apart at somewhere around 60-70% of the material breaking strength.    Back to back uni- knots are excellent as are three turn surgeons knots. I still use blood knots on the heavier parts of my leader because the line is so strong there, someting up front is going to break even though the blood knots is not 100%. Blood knots look cool, sound neat as they click through the guides and don’t tend to catch as much gunk as other joining knots. In short I like ‘em alot but use them with with prejudice.    The strongest loop knot for attaching flies is the monofilamnet loop knot as seen in Kreh’s new knot book. Lefty claims the uni-knot is weak, but our machine says it consistently tests 90-100%. In practice it’s easy to tie and doesn’t take up as mucj material as the monofilament loop knot. Its big disadvantage is that the loop cinches up where the monofilament loop knot is permanent.    tight knots! Ralph —

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Question:

: If you come up with ideas on how to get your girlfriend to take up : flyfishing for steelhead, drop me a line,…Bill Uyeki If I can make it so she doesn’t have to get up early … walk too far … have someplace warm to sit in the sun while fishing … and generally allow for napping time … I’m set … doesn’t sound condusive to steelhead …  ;-) KStJ

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I spent last weekend on the Mad River trying my luck with the Steelhead run … does anyone have suggestions for someplace closer to S.F.  I’d appreciate a day trip location instead of a weekend trip … and my girl-friend would probably a it also.  ;-) KStJ

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I spent last weekend on the Mad River trying my luck with the Steelhead run … does anyone have suggestions for someplace closer to S.F.  I’d appreciate a day trip location instead of a weekend trip … and my girl-friend would probably a it also.  ;-)

The Gualala (sp?) is 3 hours from SF.  It’s a much smaller river than the Mad, but I’ve seens tons of fish and good water color there 2 days after a rain.  With these smaller coastal rivers, timing is even more critical. The Russian is even closer, but I’ve heard in recent years the number of steelhead returning to the hatchery on Dry Creek is barely over 600.  By comparison, consider that when things are really rockin’, the Mad River Hatchery will get 250+ steelhead a week, and they have to take some back down to the river, because they can’t handle any more! If you come up with ideas on how to get your girlfriend to take up flyfishing for steelhead, drop me a line,…Bill Uyeki

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