Question:

speechless. I am going to take that statement with a huge pile of salt. I have never seen the time a trial lawyer was speechless.

Hm…..now that you mention it Dale, speechless and incoherent really AREN’T synonymous, are they?   Don’t let this get around, you do have a reputation to maintain.

And we aim to do all the maintenance required. Wayno:Looking forward to seeing you in about a week.

Ditto, in spades. Big Dale

You too Dale. Wolfgang

Response:

Much appreciated Vincent.Maybe I’ll try one on the Housatonic, Columbus day.I’ll definitely bring a few of those litle Olive thingamajigs as well. Regards,Flypaint(Shawn) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would have tried a Patriot but I’m not sure what it is. Regards,Flypaint (Shawn) Hook:      Mustad 94833, sizes 10 – 18 Thread:    Red Tails:       Brown hackle fibers Body:      Smolt blue Krystal Flash wound around shank, with                a "belt" of red thread, like a Royal Coachman Wings:    White impala or calf tail, divided Hackle:    Brown from Meck’s _Patterns, Hatches, Tactics, and Trout_, pp.  197-8. vince norris

Response:

…..Asadi stayed until Monday morning.  I wonder if he ever found the Home for Wayward Amish girls?…..

Um…….guys…….it’s a painful memory and I don’t like to dredge it up but I seen Asadi take a shower on the shore of Lake Wolfgang gotta go now…..gotta wash out my brain

Response:

Um…….guys…….it’s a painful memory and I don’t like to dredge it up but I seen Asadi take a shower on the shore of Lake Wolfgang gotta go now…..gotta wash out my brain

Aggggh!  Good lord, now ya gone and done it.  I’ll have nightmares for weeks. Natty

Response:

Natty was on a mission Sunday morning,and I hope he picked up a couple of nice fish before he left and thanks again for inviting me to the inn.

Only managed one small brown on a trico that DavePA gave me just before his departure.  Weirdest thing…the trico hatch was confined to a 20-30 yard stretch of the river.  Either side of that, nothing but the size 72 cream midges. Glad you could make it Shawn…had a great time.  Sorry about the buzzsaw. Things that stand out: a lot of talk about farm-women and personal flotation devices,amish co-eds,sounds that are like snoring(leaf blowers,lawn mowers,outboard engines

etc.),newborns,small fish on big flies,and Jack Daniels.Some much needed comic relief, thanks again fellas. Regards,Flypaint (Shawn)

Asadi stayed until Monday morning.  I wonder if he ever found the Home for Wayward Amish girls?  It really was a laugh. Natty

Response:

speechless.  

I am going to take that statement with a huge pile of salt. I have never seen the time a trial lawyer was speechless. Don’t let this get around, you do have a reputation to maintain. Wayno:Looking forward to seeing you in about a week. Big Dale

Response:

I would have tried a Patriot but I’m not sure what it is. Regards,Flypaint (Shawn)

Hook:      Mustad 94833, sizes 10 – 18 Thread:    Red Tails:       Brown hackle fibers Body:      Smolt blue Krystal Flash wound around shank, with                a "belt" of red thread, like a Royal Coachman Wings:    White impala or calf tail, divided Hackle:    Brown from Meck’s _Patterns, Hatches, Tactics, and Trout_, pp.  197-8. vince norris

Response:

Shawn,   It was great meeting you, glad you got a chance to fish after that tire debacle on Saturday.                                   Tom

Response:

@mb-mj.aol.com: Nice report Tom. I’m looking forward to next spring. Joel Axelrad **DFD**

As am I.  I would love to do one of these fall trips (especially Dave L’s), but Fall is my big teaching semester. Scott

Response:

Hey All,   I’m glad I was finally able to make it to a ROFF gathering ,even if it was only a mini one.I’m looking forward to the May, Penns gathering even if I can only make it for a three day weekend.Nice bunch of guys to hang out and fish with.Asadi wins the hospitality award hands down(and biggest rock bass).I picked up a lot of good tips watching these fellows fish and Tom might be interested to know that I dug around in my box until I found a small olive whatchamacall it and grabbed a nice brown just below the riffle at the end of tunnel road.I would have tried a Patriot but I’m not sure what it is.(is the pattern posted anywhere?)Natty was on a mission Sunday morning,and I hope he picked up a couple of nice fish before he left and thanks again for inviting me to the inn.Things that stand out: a lot of talk about farm-women and personal flotation devices,amish co-eds,sounds that are like snoring(leaf blowers,lawn mowers,outboard engines etc.),newborns,small fish on big flies,and Jack Daniels.Some much needed comic relief, thanks again fellas. Regards,Flypaint (Shawn)

Response:

. We ended the day with an enchilada dinner, courtesy of John B. Drank an assortment of wonderful beers, and some of Johns Budweiser as well.

        good god.  asadi drinks *budweiser*?  i am rendered speechless.           it’s somewhat akin to discovering that mahatma gandhi spent his spare time reading superman comics. wayno, crestfallen in the old north state

Response:

Nice report Tom. I’m looking forward to next spring. Joel Axelrad **DFD**

Response:

wayno notes: good god.  asadi drinks *budweiser*?  i am rendered speechless.  

he doesn’t actually drink it, that I noticed. Just tries to foist it onto the unsuspecting. Also, it comes in handy after DavePA comes over and blows through the Bass Ale supply.                               Tom

Response:

Yeungling!  John, you’re in PA, gotta drink Yeungling.  My God man, have you no shame? — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – wayno notes: good god.  asadi drinks *budweiser*?  i am rendered speechless. he doesn’t actually drink it, that I noticed. Just tries to foist it onto the unsuspecting. Also, it comes in handy after DavePA comes over and blows through the Bass Ale supply.                               Tom

Response:

   Well folks, a small, but noble, crew showed up at Coburn, PA this weekend. First to arrive(on Thursday), were John Baker(asadi), Mike Pitch(natty b),Mike Shaw(handyman) and Shawn ?(flypaint). Fishing was said to be fair, but will allow them the details at some later date.    Friday brought the rest of the arrivals, DavePA and friend Jeff, Allan Epps, with spouse and dog. The latter crew, I had never met. They proved to be pleasant and seemed to like the locale. The fishing Friday was quite good. Water levels were lower than May’s by a good foot or two. It was a great opportunity to study the underwater layout of the place. Hatches consisted of: Blue Quills, Little Olives, a couple types of craneflies, some decent caddis of a couple types and a smattering of Slate Drakes. These were accompanied by a virtual snowstorm of pale midges, roughly in a size 52, were one to attempt a size match. At any rate, I found success by throwing a pair of very small wet flies to visible feeders. The fly to use for this proved to be a #18 olive wet fly. This pattern took 11 of my trout over the weekend, my best producer. By contrast, Mike Shaw was taking a equal number of opportunistic risers with a #12 Patriot, for whatever reason. Success seemed largely due to the fact that Mike is steadily improving his cast placement, and was sending the things right to the fish properly. Others reported varying success. We ended the day with an enchilada dinner, courtesy of John B. Drank an assortment of wonderful beers, and some of Johns Budweiser as well. Dave took pictures of the assembly which I hope he posts someplace. Well, he can leave out the facial closeup of me in which I looked like I was on the back end of a two week drunk.   Saturday, the fishing proved tougher, but most caught fish, generally on the small stuff. I did manage a couple of Browns on Dun Variants during a short burst of drakes. A chilly, breezy day, it was nonetheless beautiful in Penns Valley, with numerous bird sighting, mink running about. No bears seen. Dinner was at the Millheim, in the bar, over copious amounts of Yeungling Lager.   Sunday started out foggy, due to the Yeungling, no doubt. Actually, it was clear, and cold. Air temp of 36 at 7 am. After a quick talk with campground owners, and a fine breakfast with John, I joined Mike Shaw below Elk Creek to fish some pocket water with nymphs. Shawn checked in, having taken the largest fish of the weekend(a 17 incher) very early am with a Black Wooly bugger. Winds made for tough work nymphing, so we decided to depart and give the fish a break. The rest of the crew were either packing to go or fishing upstream. It was truly great to see you all, and will help whet the appetite until the May Clave.                                                         Tom

Response:

Question:

Email me just with dates. I have a commitment around the first.  But for me it’s drive up the river to the mouth of the Deschuets walk a couple of miles and fish.  There is a park and boat launch there. Send me a phone number where your staying and I’ll call.  We are going to Crater Lake one on those weekends.  BJC – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I’ll be going to Portland,

Response:

Theo: Portland may not be as beautiful as New Jersey, The Garden State (snicker, snicker), but you’ll like it fine. Actually, the above was sarcastic. Oregon is lovely, and in September it probably will either be hot (maybe even up to 100), or wonderful (60-70). You should be able to find steelhead in several local rivers or, if you have time to drive about 4 hrs, you can be on one of the world’s great steelhead streams, the Deschutes. Re-post or email me directly at the end of August to remind me — in the meantime I’ll check the migration status and let you know where the fish are. Your 7-8 wt rod will be perfect. Floating line (DT or WF) and fairly strong leaders. You’ll want to pick up some of the standard Northwest steelhead flies: Freight Train, Streetwalker and Skunks are the classics. Kaufmann’s Streamborne has them online, and I think Hill’s Discount Flies does too. You may want to email Kaufmann’s for advice, too. They’re expensive, but very helpful to travelling anglers. The standard approach for summer steelhead is very systematic: cast quartering downstream, let the line swing across the current until it’s straight downstream, strip in a couple of yards; take a big step downstream, pick up your line, and cast again. You end up covering the whole section of stream that way. The strikes usually come at the very end of the "swing" or during the first "strip." (The steelhead seem to follow the fly across the river, then pick it up when it stops.) There’s some basic info for you. Again, re-post your inquiry or email me when you get closer. You’ll have fun!! — Scoobey (Scott Bellows) "Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum." -Ambrose Bierce – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve never been to Portland, hence never done any flyfishing in that area (did some in New Jersey, last year, very nice).

Response:

My favorite site to check on events around Oregon is http://www.westfly.com/cgi-bin/entryPage?state=OR Other sites include (in no particular order and no recommendation from me) http://www.flyfishingdeschutes.com/ http://www.deschutesoutfitters.com/Reports/index.html http://www.kman.com/ http://numb-butt.bendnet.com/ http://www.flyfishusa.com/index Rakane at gte dot net (remove the NOSPAM)

Response:

If  its summer steelhead you want to fish for then check out the rivers around Tillamook, the Wilson, trask and not to forget the Nestucca, the Nestucca being my favorite river to fish for summer steelhead.  You might even be able to catch large fall chinook in the big Nehalem river.  There are plenty of places to fish around the area.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My favorite site to check on events around Oregon is http://www.westfly.com/cgi-bin/entryPage?state=OR Other sites include (in no particular order and no recommendation from me) http://www.flyfishingdeschutes.com/ http://www.deschutesoutfitters.com/Reports/index.html http://www.kman.com/ http://numb-butt.bendnet.com/ http://www.flyfishusa.com/index Rakane at gte dot net (remove the NOSPAM)

Response:

The 2nd week of September should still be good weather.  The rains don’t usually start up until October. For steelhead, you might try the Sandy and Salmon rivers.  There’s a flyshop in Welches, OR (I forget the name but they are on the web) you should be able to give them a call or hire them as a guide. Best of luck,      - Ken

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I live in the Netherlands and, like you all, keen on flyfishing. I lurk around this newsgroup frequently and figured this is the place to ask some advice. I’ll be going to Portland, Oregon the second week of September, mostly for work. But,,,, I can squeeze in some time for fishing and, searching the web, found that it might actually be a good place for flyfishing, esp. steelhead. I’ve never been to Portland, hence never done any flyfishing in that area (did some in New Jersey, last year, very nice). So, any advice on spots (can rent a car), charters, gear (I’ve got a Shimano Chameleon traveller fly 9078, 9 feet #7-8, 4pcs. flyrod esp. for trips like this), flies to use, methods to use, you name it, is very much appreciated.

Response:

Indeed we have wonderful weather usually the first part of September…When suggesting visiting the Portland, OR area, I recommend last 2 weeks of August first 2 weeks of September.  A great place to check the local fishing is with Kaufmann’s Streamborne Fly Shop in Tigard, OR (south of Portland a tiny bit) and they are on the web at www.kman.com Padishar Creel – It is over 80 today and clear in the Portland Oregon area, so there!

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I live in the Netherlands and, like you all, keen on flyfishing. I lurk around this newsgroup frequently and figured this is the place to ask some advice. I’ll be going to Portland, Oregon the second week of September, mostly for work. But,,,, I can squeeze in some time for fishing and, searching the web, found that it might actually be a good place for flyfishing, esp. steelhead. I’ve never been to Portland, hence never done any flyfishing in that area (did some in New Jersey, last year, very nice). So, any advice on spots (can rent a car), charters, gear (I’ve got a Shimano Chameleon traveller fly 9078, 9 feet #7-8, 4pcs. flyrod esp. for trips like this), flies to use, methods to use, you name it, is very much appreciated. Cheers, Theo

Response:

Hi, I live in the Netherlands and, like you all, keen on flyfishing. I lurk around this newsgroup frequently and figured this is the place to ask some advice. I’ll be going to Portland, Oregon the second week of September, mostly for work. But,,,, I can squeeze in some time for fishing and, searching the web, found that it might actually be a good place for flyfishing, esp. steelhead. I’ve never been to Portland, hence never done any flyfishing in that area (did some in New Jersey, last year, very nice). So, any advice on spots (can rent a car), charters, gear (I’ve got a Shimano Chameleon traveller fly 9078, 9 feet #7-8, 4pcs. flyrod esp. for trips like this), flies to use, methods to use, you name it, is very much appreciated. Cheers, Theo

Response:

Question:

My favorite river appears to have a hatch of what somebody told me was Crane Flys.  The insects torso hangs below the wings and the bottom of the torso comes around and looks like it connects with the thorax.  Imagine a flying J with wings on the top part of the J and you have the insect I am talking about. Does anybody have any information on these insects and if so, what patterns best imitate them. Thanks! Mike Wilson Fishing!! What else is there?

Response:

FlyFis4fun: <<Does anybody have any information on these insects and if so, what patterns best imitate them. Patterns are in "Fly Patterns of Umpqua Feather Merchants", and Stewrt/Allen’s "Flies for trout".  Both adult and larva patterns are listed.  I can not imagine the crane fly as a major hatch, but if you say so…… Dave LaCourse

Response:

My favorite river appears to have a hatch of what somebody told me was Crane Flys.  The insects torso hangs below the wings and the bottom of the torso comes around and looks like it connects with the thorax.  Imagine a flying J with wings on the top part of the J and you have the insect I am talking about.

If they are indeed crane flies, also know as "daddy long legs" they belong to the family tipulidae, and are terrestrials which often fall on the water in considerable numbers, especially when it is windy,  being very clumsy fliers.  They are often imitated using long trailing knotted pheasant tail or nylon legs, body, hackle, and hackle tip spent wings to match the colour, usually from light tan to dark brown, but olive and yellow variations are also common.  An excellent pattern may be made using detached buoyant mayfly bodies. TL MC

Response:

Thanks for the information gentleman but it appears that the insect that I am seeing is something other then the Crane Fly.   The insect in question, as afore mentioned, is a pale tan to whiteish tan and flys with its torso bent around to connect near its thorax.  It hatches in fair numbers though I must admit, I have never seen any of them actually land on the water.  The primary food on this river is Stone Flys so this is more of a question exploration then anything else. Thanks for the help so far. Mike

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for the information gentleman but it appears that the insect that I am seeing is something other then the Crane Fly. The insect in question, as afore mentioned, is a pale tan to whiteish tan and flys with its torso bent around to connect near its thorax.  It hatches in fair numbers though I must admit, I have never seen any of them actually land on the water.  The primary food on this river is Stone Flys so this is more of a question exploration then anything else. Thanks for the help so far. Mike

Hi Mike, how big is this insect ?  Does it hatch from the water, or does it just appear on the water ? TL MC

Response:

Many Crane Fly species are terrestial, living in damp soil.  Aquatic species are usually found in streams with bottoms of fine gravel silt or sand.  Pupation usually takes place in damp soil along stream margins and is therefore of little account to the flyfisherperson. The larvae are simple and tube like and usually not available to fish as they burrow rather deeply and have no swimming abilities.  They are available during spates and may be represented by wooly worms.  The "Muskrat", an old Polly Rosborough pattern is another Crane Fly larva imitation.  Adults seem to be more available during light summer rains and may be represented by any appropriately sized and colored dry fly. As I write this I am watching a hiuge cranefly llumbering around the room….here in the Northwest there is a species that frequents lawns(well watered) and in climax years actually causes quite a bit of damage to the turf. Thanks for the information gentleman but it appears that the insect that I am seeing is something other then the Crane Fly.   The insect in question, as afore mentioned, is a pale tan to whiteish tan and flys with its torso bent around to connect near its thorax.  It hatches in fair numbers though I must admit, I have never seen any of them actually land on the water.  The primary food on this river is Stone Flys so this is more of a question exploration then anything else. Thanks for the help so far. Mike

– Mike in PDX "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                          Tom McGuane

Response:

The insect in question, as afore mentioned, is a pale tan to whiteish tan and flys with its torso bent around to connect near its thorax.  It hatches in fair numbers though I must admit, I have never seen any of them actually land on the water.  The primary food on this river is Stone Flys so this is more of a question exploration then anything else. Thanks for the help so far. Mike

Hello Mike, I sometimes fish a limestone stream in Eastern Pennsylvania  where Orange Craneflys (orange head) gather in clusters all along the stream banks and edge of water.  The locals have an easy to tie pattern for the orange cranefly that is very effective..  Basically, your going to tie a dry fly without a tail or wings — just body, legs, & head.   Very lightly dubbed muskrat body with Dun colored hackle, use orange thread and build a small head.  I hope this helps. Dave

Response:

My favorite river appears to have a hatch of what somebody told me was Crane Flys.  The insects torso hangs below the wings and the bottom of the torso comes around and looks like it connects with the thorax.  Imagine a flying J with wings on the top part of the J and you have the insect I am talking about. If they are indeed crane flies, also know as "daddy long legs"

I don’t know about where you live, Mike, but in the US Crane Flies and Daddy Long Legs are not at all the same thing. Crane Flies actually have wings and fly. They look like gigantic mosquitoes, but they don’t bite. Daddy Long Legs look like large spiders (but they aren’t spiders). They don’t have wings.

Response:

Crane Flies:   When I was in Ireland a few summers ago, the gillie taught me how to "dibble" for salmon: He put a relatively heavy wet fly at the end of my leader, and then a bushy dry fly on a dropper, about 6′ up from the tippet.   The idea was to use the wet fly as an anchor, and then bob the rod tip, so the dry fly danced on the surface of the water…on the surface one second, then suddenly 6" above, like a big bug jumping up and down on the water.   So I haven’t tried this over hear yet, frankly, but talking about it did lead to some interesting new information. I told this story to George Anderson,   and he said  "Sure, the guys over in Dillon (MT) have been fishing the crane fly hatch on the Beaverhead that way for years!" — /* Sandy Pittendrigh                  –oO0  * http://www.nervana.montana.edu/~sandy  */

Response:

They look like giant mosquitoes…so how about a size 2 mosquito??? George

Response:

Fish the larvae The trout eat them Lots easier to tie too… a Beaver leech — Free Lake Fly Fishing On-Line Magazine Lake Fly Fishing CD’s, Videos, Books http://www.rural.escape.ca/angling_north/fishing/organz.htm

Response:

Question:

Is there such a thing as "the best waders?"  I’m restarting my fly fishing career after 20 years off and am baffled by neoprene vs. breathables vs. canvas etc.  Is there a brand better than another?  Every fly rodder that I’ve spoken with has a different opinion.  The latest is to buy stocking foot breathables from Orvis. Thanks.

Response:

Is there such a thing as "the best waders?"  I’m restarting my fly fishing career after 20 years off and am baffled by neoprene vs. breathables vs. canvas etc.  Is there a brand better than another?  Every fly rodder that I’ve spoken with has a different opinion.  The latest is to buy stocking foot breathables from Orvis. Thanks.

Simms Guide model breathables. — something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

writes: Is there such a thing as "the best waders?

The best waders are which ever ones fit your needs and your pocket book. You’re right they’re so many out there and most of them work as promised. If money is not an object, breathables Simms Guide Gortex, LL Bean Gortex or the new tough Orvis ones are supposed to be good. I have had the simms for four seasons now. Not a leak yet, very comfortable in the summer but they were and are pricey. If I wear my breathables over fleece pants, I have yet to have a "cold" problem steelheading. I never plan on wearing my neoprenes again. Wayne Knight Geneva IL                            

Response:

I too am in the process of "gearing up".  After speaking with several individuals, an Orvis salesperson, a BassPro rep, and looking through a plethora of magazines and books, I have concluded the following: 1.    Not all waders are created equal. 2.    If you buy a $10 pair of waders, expect a $10 pair of waders. 3.    NO 2 fly fisherman (or sales people) will answer the same question         with the same (or nearly the same) answer. 4.    Waders are a personal choice based on the following:         A.    Area to be fished (ie; hiking 10miles in 6mm neoprene is                 not the most pleasant experience.)         B.    Seasons fished (15 degrees in 45 degree water is no fun                 in lightweight breathables.)         C.    Price range:  Buy the best you can afford while keeping in                 mind what you are going to use them for. Basically, unless you are comparing two specific products, there are no definitive answers.  Think:  Need, Desire, Use, Price.  When in doubt, take along a fly fisherman you trust and have him/her answer the necessary questions on your behalf. Casting is free therapy!!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there such a thing as "the best waders?"  I’m restarting my fly fishing career after 20 years off and am baffled by neoprene vs. breathables vs. canvas etc.  Is there a brand better than another?  Every fly rodder that I’ve spoken with has a different opinion.  The latest is to buy stocking foot breathables from Orvis. Thanks.

Response:

Ditto the previous replies. Except for the coldest, most rugged conditions, the breathables are the best bet. I have Hodgmans, which I love. Go with the ones that fit you best; both your body and your pocketbook! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there such a thing as "the best waders?"  I’m restarting my fly fishing

Response:

Basically, ditto. Breathables are not only the most comfortable thing I’ve worn in the water (besides an occasional big grin) they are absolutely fantastic for travel. They dry overnight and take almost no space at all when they go back into your suitcase for the morning flight. But if you’re only going to fish a couple of times a year, you have to decide whether they are worth the expense. I like Simms. Ken Ft. Lupton, CO – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: Is there such a thing as "the best waders? The best waders are which ever ones fit your needs and your pocket book. You’re right they’re so many out there and most of them work as promised. Wayne Knight Geneva IL

Response:

Seems like there are a lot of good vendors out there.  I’ve got some LL Bean waist-high breathable waders which I find fantastically comfortable (I fish a lot of small, freestone streams) and have been very durable.  Waist high works much better than hippers (which invariable are 2" too short) and are much more comfortable in hot weather than chest waders.  I almost never miss the extra height of a chest wader (if it’s that deep, you should be fishing in it, not walking in it). I also have a pair of Orvis Chest High breathable waders, which I would give a miss.  The fabric simply isn’t puncture resistant enough. Michael – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ditto the previous replies. Except for the coldest, most rugged conditions, the breathables are the best bet. I have Hodgmans, which I love. Go with the ones that fit you best; both your body and your pocketbook! Is there such a thing as "the best waders?"  I’m restarting my fly fishing

Response:

______  I use Levi  Waders and they are very breathable.  Cheap, too. Mr. G.

Response:

______  I use Levi  Waders and they are very breathable.  Cheap, too. Mr. G.

Plus if you gotta piss it’s  better’n neoprene, eh George? BA

Response:

______  I use Levi  Waders and they are very breathable.  Cheap, too. Mr. G. Plus if you gotta piss it’s  better’n neoprene, eh George? BA

_______   yep. —

Question:

Hi folks, I’m new to the group, and would like your thoughts on what is the best kayak for fly fishing coastal bays and flats.  I normally fly fish in Christmas Bay (close to Galveston, TX), and use a Zest Two – Ocean Kayak two seater.  It’s kinda tough to handle in a breeze over, say, 10 kts. I’m in the market for a faster boat that will handle higher wind conditions, and would like some input from those more knowledgable than I. Howard About Christmas Bay – http://www.christmasbay.com

Response:

  Hi, the boat of choice here in San Diego for fishing seems to be the Scupper Pro,and Scupper Classic. I own the classic , it weighs48pds. compared to your68pd. zest. The pros weigh 55pds.      I’m able to troll effectivly even when the wind picks up, if the wind picks up while jig fishing or while i’m after halibut i use my sea anchor to slow my drift     Aqua

Response:

I’m new to the group, and would like your thoughts on what is the best kayak for fly fishing coastal bays and flats.  I normally fly fish in Christmas Bay (close to Galveston, TX), and use a Zest Two – Ocean Kayak two seater.  It’s kinda tough to handle in a breeze over, say, 10 kts. I’m in the market for a faster boat that will handle higher wind conditions, and would like some input from those more knowledgable than I.

I’m also a newbie to this thing, but I’ve got a few opinions anyway…  [had my boat for a couple months so far] I know most folks will suggest an open cockpit boat, but don’t write off an enclosed version.   Also, I know most folks tend to prefer getting out of the boat and wade, but I’m not one of them.  I like to start more or less dry, and end more or less dry. I have very little difficulty casting my 8 weight while seated in my kayak. [Dagger Edisto].   But there is also enough deck rigging to support a decent trolling setup, and there was enough mounting and cargo room for me to add an all-around light to help with safe night fishing and transits to duck hunting spots next season.. If you are annoyed by high winds and waves, get a rudder. The difference is mind bogolling. My modest experiences so far: http://www.neosoft.com/~rww/kayak_log.html

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If you are annoyed by high winds and waves, get a rudder. The difference is mind bogolling. My modest experiences so far: http://www.neosoft.com/~rww/kayak_log.html

If I get out I may use a fly rod on the flats, but I have had more luck trolling from my kayak.  I dont know if its the speed or that the boat makes the fish notice my fly or lure but the success rate is pretty good for both bass and blues.  I use a kevlar kayak and a rudder to make the experience "less painful".  I also gave up using a rod from my boat.  I made a hand line device that is very easy to use.  To see one visit my site at:  http://www.jlc.net/~hlevin I usually troll rapalas, rubber eels a fly or other artifical baits. —     Hal     Wilton, NH     Power your boat with carbohydrates,     not hydrocarbons.           http://www.jlc.net/~hlevin                 0                  _O                     0

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If I get out I may use a fly rod on the flats, but I have had more luck trolling from my kayak.  I dont know if its the speed or that the boat

I do good trolling as well. experience "less painful".  I also gave up using a rod from my boat.  I made a hand line device that is very easy to use.  To see one visit my

Give up my rod and reel?  I have a rod holder angled 45 degrees backward, a bit behind the cockpit.  I can paddle (troll) at any speed without interference.  That reminds me…i was trolling at work yesterday..woops!

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Question:

  Given the Spiral of Death this ng has been in for a while, I  can only attribute it to    CABIN FEVER <<<   First of the year no less.   I  suggest we all run from our keyboards screaming some " PC" epithet and dive into the snow or at least in the freezer outside. Return  to your bench and tye  a dozen #22 Royal Humpys and call it a day.  All references to anatomical parts or functions, should be spoken, face down into the snow in a civil tone. Use of Prosaic & White Label with sensory depravation devices is frowned upon, but not forbidden. Remember that not long ago there was a good PMD hatch,that you just missed and the Sun was high and warm, and the river felt cool. We will be back there soon, Britt slang or no .   Harry "Only hundred and ten dozen more… shit"

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Hi Harry I agree with your "take" on the situation. The next thing we know someone with starting talking about Rush Limbaugh or Larry King and go bouncing in another direction. I like you "face down in the snow" idea, that would sure bring me up short. Speaking of which, I have about 14" of snow to shovel off the driveway, I guess I better get started. Darn! Other topic: You state at your signature "Only hundred and ten dozen more…" Are you a commercial tier? If you are I certainly understand you statement. Gretchen and I are winding down on an order for 350 dozen Royal Wulffs – only 27 more dozen to go. And then we have about another 800 to go. Oh well, Montana winter are long and we have plenty of time. Happy Holidays. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 materials catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

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Question:

Hi Group It seems like everytime I leave for a while my email gets messed up.  If any of you have tried to contact me in the last week, please do so again. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 catalog)

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Hi Al — welcome home In light of some of the posts recently i have to start this with THIS IS A JOKE… but maybe nobody wanted to talk to you!!!!  ;) jg

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Question:

One method that works fairly well is to tie the end of the leader (not tippet) to the center of the piece of yarn using an improved cinch knot.  Then tie the tippet to the leader just above the yarn also using an improved cinch knot.  The  obvious disadvantage to this method is that it’s not very easy to change depths. John Johnson Atlanta, GA

A second disadvantage is that it requires two knots instead of one. Next time I think that I’ll try the simple overhand knot that others have suggested. John Johnson Atlanta, GA

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I am trying to use yarn instead of foam, BioStrike, etc. What is the best knot and method to use to attach the yarn to the leader?

Hi Jay, The question is, do you want effectiveness and are you willing to work for it, or do you want convenience and are willing to settle for not as effective? If you want the most sensitive and best casting system, use a fairly stout leader 2X or 3X  (~6 to 7 1/2 ft. in length) and tie your yarn on to the end with an *improved* clinch knot (the regular clinch knot will slip). Then attach your tippet (depth of the water or slightly longer) to the leader with an improved clinch knot behind the indicator and slide it up against the indicator.  Test the connection (don’t bounce your knots!).   Attach split shot ~6" away from your fly (no closer than 4" and no farther away than 8")   If you keep at least 2 "X" numbers difference between the leader and the tippet size, the break will be at the fly and not at the yarn.  You have to keep adjusting the  length of the tippet as the water depth changes, and that’s a pain.  But, it is deadly.  The stout leader makes casting the indicator much easier and the 90 degree tippet gives you great control over placement.  This is often called "the hinged nymphing system" and was developed by the gentleman I teach fishing schools with, Dean Schubert, and his ex-roomate Dave Hickson.   If you don’t want to go through all these machinations you can tie your yarn on with a clove hitch which will allow you to loosen up the knot and slide the yarn up  or down, and it won’t score the line or weaken it.  It also won’t cast as well and you won’t get the 90 degree hinge that you get with the other system so it won’t be as sensitive and your fly may actually be quite a ways from your indicator (instead of within a 2 ft. circle), but it is more convenient and in fast water it works OK.                                        Good Fishing!                                                Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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I am trying to use yarn instead of foam, BioStrike, etc. What is the best knot and method to use to attach the yarn to the leader? — Jay Thomas

I don’t know what type of water you are fishing but in New Zealand’s North Island, on the larger rivers eg. the Tongariro or Rangitikei, I use a 1" piece of Glo-bug yarn. Soak the yarn in a dry fly floatant and allow to dry. My leader is joined to the fly line by a pair of interlocking loops and the Glo-bug yarn indicator is placed in between the loops before they are pulled up tight. Lime green is easy to see at the change of light and hot pink when the sun is on the water. This indicator does not affect casting but there is some distance between it and the fly. For these waters this distance is not a problem. Jim Learmonth

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While yarn works great for indicating strikes, I find it interferes tremendously with casting. — -Wayne Trzyna

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While yarn works great for indicating strikes, I find it interferes tremendously with casting.

Hi Wayne, Your right if your talking about those golf ball and larger sized sized chunks of yarn that people toss around.  However, if you get the right yarn, you don’t need huge pieces of it and I find it easier to cast than any other indicator I’ve found (so far).  The yarn you want to find comes in your choice of colors and can often be found at macrame shops.  It is a braided polypropylene yarn.  One of the brand names out there is Bonnie Braid, I’m sure there are plenty more. However, all polypropylene yarns are not created equal and different skeins of the same brand and the same color can perform differently.  The type that works best is coarse and shiny.  Not shiny and soft, not coarse and dull, but coarse and shiny.  Get it in a color you like as waterproof markers won’t penetrate the fibers and will wash off quickly.  It usually comes in 50 or 100 yard skeins depending on the thickness of the braid.  I prefer the 100 yard skeins because the braid is smaller and easier to seperate.  Use about 4 strands of the braid, tie it on and comb out the fibers.  Cut to the desired size (dime to quarter size depending on amount of weight used), and treat with paste floatant.   I use the Orvis Hy-flote paste floatant because it liquifies when I rub it between my fingers. Don’t use too thick a paste or it won’t work well.  I’ll then stroke it on the fibers and comb it out again.  If you did it right this should look like a very small open flower floating on the water.  If the flower is tipping forward – your fly is dragging behind it, if it is tilting backwards – it is in front of the indicator.  If it floats straight up, you are getting a very good drift.  If you did it wrong it will look like a dense golf ball or bigger.  Dense doesn’t cast or float as well as the "open flower".  Goldilocks strikes again, not to thick, not too thin, just right!                             Good Fishing,                                   Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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dont

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dont

nonsense. make a standard overhand loop with the yarn inside, breaking strength is 100% of the tippet. The advantage of yarn (you can also use small pieces of etafoam, a few CDC feathers etc.) is that you can adjust the size of the strike indicator and the depth of fishing (in shallower water just move the indicator closer to the fly). An easier strike indicator is Orvis Strike Putty, a resin you can mold to any shape and you can us as much as you really need (from very small for midge fishing in shallow water to really big to fish a deep run with a stonefly, highly visible colors and even night glowing!).       If this was your question…                                       Thomas

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I am trying to use yarn instead of foam, BioStrike, etc. What is the best knot and method to use to attach the yarn to the leader? — Jay Thomas

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Tie a slip-knot in the leader. Insert yarn and pull tight. Trim yarn to size and apply a small amount of floatant. This has worked for me for years. It is also easy to adjust the fly depth and has minimal effect on the leader stregth. Good luck. Jack

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Path: news.itd.umich.edu!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!realti me.net !news.mindspring.com!jpthomas.mindspring.com!user Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 6 NNTP-Posting-Host: jpthomas.mindspring.com X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.1.8 I am trying to use yarn instead of foam, BioStrike, etc. What is the best knot and method to use to attach the yarn to the leader? — Jay Thomas

Try a knittingneedle knot.

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I am trying to use yarn instead of foam, BioStrike, etc. What is the best knot and method to use to attach the yarn to the leader? — Jay Thomas

Jay, Around here we tie an overhand knot at the area where you want the indicator to be, but leave it loose. Then put the yarn in the knot an tighten it. This way it is easy to backl the knot off and roll it to a different spot depending on how deep the water is. It won’t be a weak link since it is way up the leader where it is thick anyway. Martin Allen

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Tie a slip-knot in the leader. Insert yarn and pull tight. Trim yarn to size and apply a small amount of floatant. This has worked for me for years. It is also easy to adjust the fly depth and has minimal effect on the leader stregth. Good luck. Jack

   Our knot testing machine (which, as Lefty says, "has no bias") shows that yarn slip knotted to leader will reduce the leader strength by up to 50%. A much better way is to tie a simple overhand knot in the leader and put in a piece of yarn before cinching up.    Without the yarn this would result in a "wind knot" which is not very strong (reduces leader strength by about 15% . . . it’s not nearly as bad as many have been led to believe).     Our strain gauge device measures accurately down to 1/100 of a pound and it shows zero reduction of strength in an overhand knot cinched around a piece of yarn. Your leader will always break at the yarn because it creates a focus of energy; however, there is no reduction in the strength of the leader.    -Ralph —

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I am trying to use yarn instead of foam, BioStrike, etc. What is the best knot and method to use to attach the yarn to the leader?

One method that works fairly well is to tie the end of the leader (not tippet) to the center of the piece of yarn using an improved cinch knot.  Then tie the tippet to the leader just above the yarn also using an improved cinch knot.  The  obvious disadvantage to this method is that it’s not very easy to change depths. John Johnson Atlanta, GA

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I am trying to use yarn instead of foam, BioStrike, etc. What is the best knot and method to use to attach the yarn to the leader?

I learned a nice method from a guide on the San Juan River in New Mexico. You form a loop up in the fat part of the leader, then reach through the loop and pull another loop of the same leader through it. You put the yarn halfway through this second loop and pull on the leader to tighten it up. If you need to change depths, you just push the leader to open the loop, get your yarn out and do it again somewhere else. I hope I have explained this so you can understand it. It’s a pretty simple method, though it will leave a bend in the leader if you leave the yarn in too long. Doesn’t seem to affect the strength of the leader though. — | Michael P. Thompson – Liberty Communications | |           * Spreading the Word *             |

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[snip] Your leader will always break at the yarn because it creates a focus of energy; however, there is no reduction in the strength of the leader.   -Ralph

I didn’t realize from your previous posts that you were a "New Age" kind of guy Ralph.  That focus of energy must be some variation of the pyramid effect.  :-) BTW, I love to read your magazine articles! See ya, John Johnson Atlanta, GA

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Question:

Question: I live in Oregon and we’ve had a warm and wet winter.  We are just recovering from a major flood.  What effect will this have on insect populations in the spring and summer?

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Yo Dan, The effect of the flood will be the determining factor on the bug population, not the warm water conditons. Certainly if the flood was sustained and had heavy enough flows to scour the stream bed then you can expect some damage to the invertibrate population.   The warmer than seasonal winter flows can accelerate the hatches, that is make them come early.  Normally by mid season the hatches will get back on track unless you have a hot spring. Yippi tie one on! AuSable1

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Question: I live in Oregon and we’ve had a warm and wet winter.  We are just recovering from a major flood.  What effect will this have on insect populations in the spring and summer?

Good question.  Most nymphs or larva grow very little during the winter months but the unseasonably warm water may change this.  Could see many of your normal hatches happening earlier than usual.  Then again the flooding may well have destroyed a lot of the habitat (rooted vegetation especially) with its scouring effects and you may have greatly reduced hatches and insect activity.   Then again placing all the organic materials in the rivers may actually improve habitat over the long run. This is a little like chaos theories, there are so many variables it’s real hard to predict. Probably just have to wait and see what happens. Any one else care to guess?                                                Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Schools Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Question: I live in Oregon and we’ve had a warm and wet winter.  We are just recovering from a major flood.  What effect will this have on insect populations in the spring and summer? Good question.  Most nymphs or larva grow very little during the winter months but the unseasonably warm water may change this.  Could see many of your normal hatches happening earlier than usual.  Then again the flooding may well have destroyed a lot of the habitat (rooted vegetation especially) with its scouring effects and you may have greatly reduced hatches and insect activity.   Then again placing all the organic materials in the rivers may actually improve habitat over the long run. This is a little like chaos theories, there are so many variables it’s real hard to predict. Probably just have to wait and see what happens. Any one else care to guess?                                                Dan My guess:  It may make the hatches come off early.  Therefore,

you should get onstream earlier in the year.  It also may make the hatches sparse.  Therefore, you should spend as much time as possible onstream.  It may make the hatches come off late, since we are just guessing here, so you should fish later into the year than you normally do.  It may stunt the hatches.  There- fore you should tie smaller flies this year.  It may cause phenomenal growth, since the flood reduced the population relative to the habitat.  So, you should tie larger flies.  It could reduce populations, causing underfed fish to virtually leap on any fly presented to them.  Therefore, you should not bother to take a variety of flies onstream.  It could displace the fish so they are unavailable to jump on your fly.  Therefore, stay home. It could go just about any way.  I plan to review the year at the end and construct a difinitive answer to this question when I have some factual^b^b^b^b^b^b^b anecdotal data to draw on. Charley

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Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have used a fiberglass drift boat (16ft) for several years now on the Deschutes, upto class 4 whitewater.  Great boat.  If you plan on hitting a few rocks wood is not a good choice.  lots of maintenance-drying out, snding, refinishing 9but they are beautiful.  Company in Portland that sells plans and kits (Greg tatman- adds in flyfishing magazines).  The bow or stern depends on definition-  pointed part goes downriver but you row the other way-  anchor system goes on the broad end, but if lake fishing you need one on the pointed end as the boat will spin very easily in any wind.  Most driftboats will also take up to 10 hp motor.  I have 36lb thrust elecric for my and moves boat very well.  Aluminum is very durable but also noisy.  Definitely a 16ft for three people.  Enjoy

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Hi, My name is Al Beatty and I’m one of a few guides who use a wood drift boat.  You definitely want a 16′ boat for three people; a 14′ boat is too "squirrely" especially in the wind.  I guide in Montana and wind is a definite concern regarding drift boats.  Don Hill makes a really great wood drift boat and also has plans if you want to build your own.  You can find his address in most fly fishing magazines or ask your local fly shop. Normally you run a drift boat down the river bow first and usually the anchor is located on the stern of the boat. Good luck! Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Catalog Available 406-585-0745 (phn & fax)

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Either the Macenzie design(square front) or the Rogue is quite acceptable. Yes the wood  boats are more maintenance but also offer the greatest pleasure.Ever seen photographs of finished wood boats on the river? Compared to plastic or Aluminun there is no comparison.Also a wood boat,contrary to most opinions, is an easier rowing boat; wood boats float upside down!They also don’t blow around in the wind as bad as glass boats,especially the glass boats with rolled gunnels. One downside to a wood boat is lack of watertight storage but that is overcome with dry bags. www:http://www.accessone.com/~davy

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Agree with you comments.  Built a 17′ Rogue River and it has been a jewel to fish from.  Had a fiberglass one previouly.  The wood, drift easier, is easier to handle in big water, is not affected by the wind very much and tracks perfectly.  It is muck quieter and a lot warmer then the fiberglass and metal.  Floated the Keani this week.  Air tempeture was 20 degrees but yet the bottom of the boat was comfortable. — Gene Dobrzynski, Eagle River, Alaska

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 One of the things you forgot to mention was weight. Aluminum being the lightest, then fiberglass and wood. Ernie Harrison

Hmmmm. I’ll agree that aluminum boats are the sturdiest…hands down. But lightest? Not the ones I’ve seen. I remember guiding with Doug McClelland (former TU president, or some such) a few years ago. Doug’s Aumaweld was so heavy I nearly busted a gut trying to help him get it off the trailer. I wonder if anyone has the real weights: say what a 16 Lavro, ClackaCraft or SlideRite weighs compared to an Alumaweld, Willie’s or whatever.   One last point about Aluminum boats: steelhead guides who backtroll plugs like the sharp, molded chine of an aluminum boat, becuase it acts like a keel, and makes it easier to hold a "track" down through a good run. But every silver lining has its pepto bismol counter part…..that sharp, hard chine catches the water too hard when you are rowing sideways to a fast current. Try pulling out into a fast current after eddying out behind a mid-river bolder (with an aluminum driftboat)…..then you’ll get an appreciation for a smooth, rounded chine (like you get in a molded boat).   If you do decide to buy a molded boat, get the stiffest one you can find. Soft bottoms and flexible sides just create lost motion in the rowing process, which makes ’soft’ boats harder to row, and slower to move. —

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I am not sure that Irish and Scots Gillies would agree with your sentiments about glass fibre boats.  Their experience, and I lived to tell the tale, is that properly built wooden boats will take more punishment than GRP – especially when rocks are invisible just below the surface and you only find out they are there too late.  GRP is so easy to look after, which is why that is my choice on Loch Ness (no rocks!) Good fishing Oliver Inverness-shire

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Mike, it is unfortunate that a person can’t get all of the good features in one boat.  One of the things you forgot to mention was weight. Aluminum being the lightest, then fiberglass and wood. There was an article several years ago in Flyfishing about a fellow who recovered drift boats that people lost on Oregon’s salmon and steelhead rivers.  It was amazing what the water had done to these boats.  The fiberglass and wood boats were mostly damaged beyond repair.  The welded aluminum boats were generally all recoverable. Ernie Harrison

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I’m considering building a MacKenzie River drift boat, for use both on local rivers and smaller lakes.  This design is alleged to be quite adequate for drifting and much better for motoring than the Rogue River style drift boat. Does anyone have experience drift-fishing with this type of boat?  Do you drift with bow or stern downstream?  I assume you anchor bow-upstream…but can you mount an anchor bracket on the bow?  For three people, is a 14′ OK or should I go 16′?  Any experience or observations on this type of boat are welcome. Thanks.

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I used a wood drift for several years in Oregon on the coast streams.  A lot of maintenance, thats for sure. But its the best flyfishing platform I’ve ever used. The fiberglass boats seemed to float higher, draw less water, and be more durable.

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"There is an aluminum welded drift boat (Alumnaweld?) which is probably the most durable of all the drift boats and very low maintenance.. Ernie Harrison" Ernie, Alumaweld, the original welded aluminum driftboat.  For more contemporary designs in aluminum, see FishRite and/or Willie Boats. IMHO, Aluminum….noisy, durable, cold, NOT slippery unless bottom is treatet with Gluvit or plastic.  Capable of being made with a hard chine so hold well n water for backtrolling etc. Fiberglass…durable, quieter than aluminum, slippery, flexible rather than a rigid bottom like aluminum, rounded or soft chines. Wood…quietest and warmest, hard chines, classic craftmanship (Rays River Boats of Portland Oregon are some of the best), may be constructed with West System Epoxy techniques to reduce maintenance requirements.  Also, the only naturally buoyant construction material and the lowest center of gravity.                           Mike in PDX                "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                                            Tom McGuane

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writes: The fiberglass boats seemed to float higher, draw less water, and be more durable.

There is an aluminum welded drift boat (Alumnaweld?) which is probably the most durable of all the drift boats and very low maintenance.. Ernie Harrison

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I have used a fiberglass drift boat (16ft) for several years now on the Deschutes, upto class 4 whitewater.  Great boat.  If you plan on hitting a few rocks wood is not a good choice.  lots of maintenance-drying out, snding, refinishing 9but they are beautiful.  Company in Portland that sells plans and kits (Greg tatman- adds in flyfishing magazines).  The bow or stern depends on definition-  pointed part goes downriver but you row the other way-  anchor system goes on the broad end, but if lake fishing you need one on the pointed end as the boat will spin very easily in any wind.  Most driftboats will also take up to 10 hp motor.  I have 36lb thrust elecric for my and moves boat very well.  Aluminum is very durable but also noisy.  Definitely a 16ft for three people.  Enjoy

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