Question:

Tres Cool! Left my house south of Ba’more at about 6:20 a.m.  (O-dark-thirty for the rest of you).  Headed north to beautiful Somerset, NJ (exit 10 North) and pulled into the Doubletree Hotel parking lot at 0930.  First time on the NJ Turnpike.  If you’re doing 75, then turn on your emergency flashers and get on the shoulder.  Also, if I’d not bought anything, discounting gas, the tolls and the entrance fee cost me about $32.  Sheesh!!  I’m a West Coast kinda guy.  We ain’t used to these toll roads. A few yards inside the door, there’s Tom Littleton tying one on (a Catskill tie).  I go to the Mike Martinek presentation and he remembers me and Frank’s Fightin’ Craw from the Chatsworth Angling Fair in the UK back in ‘97. At 12:30, Tom is done tying so we wander through to shop and check out the heavy hitters on hand.  We see A.K. Best, Borger (father and son), Fishy Fullum, Tim Trexlar, Oliver Edwards, Jack Gartside, Dick Talleur and a few dozen more.  Just watching these folks tie is incredible. There are some new people there too.  Gentleman by the name of Dave Martin. He ties the most realistic lion fish (yes, its a fly done with deer hair) that I’ve ever seen.  His blue-ringed octopus and scorpion are just as amazing.  I’ll post the pic of the lion fish this evening. Overall, a very worthwhile show.  By the way, Tom said that Stan, Handyman Mike and a few others were gonna show up.  Where were you, you whimps!?  If I can vibrate my spine silly on the Turnpike from the south, then someone should have to suffer the trip from the north. Thanks Tom for the introductions (man, everyone knows him) and the wonderful time. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

Response:

Next time try – I-695 to I-83 North to I-81 North to I-78 East To I-287 South.  $0.25 toll each way (pay $0.50 when west bound) at the Delaware river. and believe it or not, it’s not 10 minutes longer and usually shorter due to low traffic volumes.  I’ve been doing it both ways for years. Gene

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tres Cool!   Also, if I’d not bought anything, discounting gas, the tolls and the entrance fee cost me about $32.  Sheesh!!  I’m a West Coast kinda guy.  We ain’t used to these toll roads. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

Response:

Thanks! "Eugene Cottrell" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Next time try – I-695 to I-83 North to I-81 North to I-78 East To I-287 South.  $0.25 toll each way (pay $0.50 when west bound) at the Delaware river. and believe it or not, it’s not 10 minutes longer and usually shorter due to low traffic volumes.  I’ve been doing it both ways for years. Gene

Response:

Overall, a very worthwhile show.  By the way, Tom said that Stan, Handyman Mike and a few others were gonna show up.  Where were you, you whimps!?

(Un)fortunately, I get to play host for Thanksgiving this year so I have to rearrange the house to get a dining room back.  Also got signed up for a software project on Friday, so my schedule is way too tight.  I really wanted to go this year. Did you by any chance get to see Marla Blair tying?  She usually shares a table with Dick Talleur and I know they were traveling down together.  She ties some amazing (unfishable) realistic grasshoppers and crickets. –Stan (I *will* be at the Somerset flyfishing show in January)

Response:

Stan,   I saw Marla tying up something terrestrial, tough to get details as she had a crowd around her.  Too bad you couldn’t make it down…..maybe Danbury over the winter??                                Tom

Response:

I would LOVE to have made it up to this event!  Couldn’t get away this time around though. Right now I’m in pretty good shape in all departments except hooks and a tyer can NEVER have enough chicken feathers!  What I missed most was the techniques to be learned from the real experts.  I have an interest in the Catskill style and would really like to improve myself in that area. — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tres Cool! Left my house south of Ba’more at about 6:20 a.m.  (O-dark-thirty for the rest of you).  Headed north to beautiful Somerset, NJ (exit 10 North) and pulled into the Doubletree Hotel parking lot at 0930.  First time on the NJ Turnpike.  If you’re doing 75, then turn on your emergency flashers and get on the shoulder.  Also, if I’d not bought anything, discounting gas, the tolls and the entrance fee cost me about $32.  Sheesh!!  I’m a West Coast kinda guy.  We ain’t used to these toll roads. A few yards inside the door, there’s Tom Littleton tying one on (a Catskill tie).  I go to the Mike Martinek presentation and he remembers me and Frank’s Fightin’ Craw from the Chatsworth Angling Fair in the UK back in ‘97. At 12:30, Tom is done tying so we wander through to shop and check out the heavy hitters on hand.  We see A.K. Best, Borger (father and son), Fishy Fullum, Tim Trexlar, Oliver Edwards, Jack Gartside, Dick Talleur and a few dozen more.  Just watching these folks tie is incredible. There are some new people there too.  Gentleman by the name of Dave Martin. He ties the most realistic lion fish (yes, its a fly done with deer hair) that I’ve ever seen.  His blue-ringed octopus and scorpion are just as amazing.  I’ll post the pic of the lion fish this evening. Overall, a very worthwhile show.  By the way, Tom said that Stan, Handyman Mike and a few others were gonna show up.  Where were you, you whimps!? If I can vibrate my spine silly on the Turnpike from the south, then someone should have to suffer the trip from the north. Thanks Tom for the introductions (man, everyone knows him) and the wonderful time. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

Response:

Stan,   I saw Marla tying up something terrestrial, tough to get details as she had a crowd around her.  Too bad you couldn’t make it down…..maybe Danbury over the winter??                                Tom

The Danbury show is January 3-5.  I’ve never been to that one, but it’s pretty close by and I know a couple of people I could talk into going.  All they have listed on their site is a bunch of tying classes (and a rod building class).  What else do you know about that show? We already have a room booked for the Somerset show in January – I think at the Holiday Inn (better bar than the DoubleTree).  I love that show.

Response:

Howdy All     Would have liked to have made the show myself but with the recent rains i am behind on my yard cleanings with snow a possibility this week had to get as much done as we could this weekend. Maybe in Jan. who knows the weather will dictate that also.                    Handyman Mike           Standing in a river waving a stick

Response:

There are some new people there too.  Gentleman by the name of Dave Martin. He ties the most realistic lion fish (yes, its a fly done with deer hair) that I’ve ever seen.  His blue-ringed octopus and scorpion are just as amazing.  I’ll post the pic of the lion fish this evening.

The lion fish fly pic is on a.b.p.f. Frank

Response:

Question:

Been enjoying an eBay catch "To Hell With Fishing" by Ed Zern and H.T. Webster. Thought I’d share a bit of 40’s humor… In one cartoon titled "The Honeymoon", Mr. Webster draws a happy fellow flyfishing in a stream, while his new bride stands on the shore in a lovely dress and hat, her head surrounded by gnats, while she looks a bit confused. Mr Zern comments: "Personally, I don’t get the point of this cartoon.  As far as I can see, it’s an ideal honeymoon, and I don’t know what Mr. Webster could be driving at.  I spent my honeymoon fishing for small-mouth bass.  I had to.  The trout season had ended." More wife-torturing tips available upon request. 8^)

Timothy Juvenal

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Been enjoying an eBay catch "To Hell With Fishing" by Ed Zern and H.T. Webster. Thought I’d share a bit of 40’s humor… In one cartoon titled "The Honeymoon", Mr. Webster draws a happy fellow flyfishing in a stream, while his new bride stands on the shore in a lovely dress and hat, her head surrounded by gnats, while she looks a bit confused. Mr Zern comments: "Personally, I don’t get the point of this cartoon.  As far as I can see, it’s an ideal honeymoon, and I don’t know what Mr. Webster could be driving at.  I spent my honeymoon fishing for small-mouth bass.  I had to.  The trout season had ended." More wife-torturing tips available upon request. 8^) Timothy Juvenal

Great book. G.Cleveland

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Been enjoying an eBay catch "To Hell With Fishing" by Ed Zern and H.T. Webster. Thought I’d share a bit of 40’s humor… In one cartoon titled "The Honeymoon", Mr. Webster draws a happy fellow flyfishing in a stream, while his new bride stands on the shore in a lovely dress and hat, her head surrounded by gnats, while she looks a bit confused. Mr Zern comments: "Personally, I don’t get the point of this cartoon.  As far as I can see, it’s an ideal honeymoon, and I don’t know what Mr. Webster could be driving at.  I spent my honeymoon fishing for small-mouth bass.  I had to.  The trout season had ended." More wife-torturing tips available upon request.

….And what if you should be so unfortunate as to find a lady who is a flyfisher? Worse yet, what if she is a flyfisher AND flytyer AND could give a rat’s rump if the seat is up or down? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 8^) Timothy Juvenal

Response:

Valkyrie postulated …And what if you should be so unfortunate as to find a lady who is a flyfisher? Worse yet, what if she is a flyfisher AND flytyer AND could give a rat’s rump if the seat is up or down? —– I have one of those special partners that is both a flyfisher and a fly tyer BUT she would rather that I put the seat down cuz she hates taking a midnight dip in the porcelain jacuzzi…I guess 2 out of 3 ain’t bad. Chris Fanning — got a nice package from Cabelas today, oh goodie…Very impressed with their $9.99 Grizzly No. 1 Saddle.

Response:

Count a second here.  Severe adversion of midnight dips.  2 for 3!!! Chris Richer – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Valkyrie postulated …And what if you should be so unfortunate as to find a lady who is a flyfisher? Worse yet, what if she is a flyfisher AND flytyer AND could give a rat’s rump if the seat is up or down? —– I have one of those special partners that is both a flyfisher and a fly tyer BUT she would rather that I put the seat down cuz she hates taking a midnight dip in the porcelain jacuzzi…I guess 2 out of 3 ain’t bad. Chris Fanning — got a nice package from Cabelas today, oh goodie…Very impressed with their $9.99 Grizzly No. 1 Saddle.

Response:

"Chris Richer"  wrote… Count a second here.  Severe adversion of midnight dips.  2 for 3!!!

I really must object to this implication that the fair sex is not clever enough to put the seat down when neccasary.  I always leave the seat up, and have yet to fail to put it down when I’ve needed it in that postion.  I refuse to believe that the ladies are incapable of making the same judgement call. No, gentlemen, it’s not really about women being prone to falling into the toilet.  They’re no more likely to fall in than you or I, and in fact, are probably less likely.  No, this is nothing more than a convienient opportunity to tell you what to do, and one of the few instances when a woman is actually successful at that endeavor. We must be strong, men!  We must resist if we are to prevail in the war between men and women!  We must _insist_ that they leave the seat up!   For the dignity of all mankind! Timothy Juvenal

Response:

"Valkyrie"  wrote … ….And what if you should be so unfortunate as to find a lady who is a flyfisher? Worse yet, what if she is a flyfisher AND flytyer AND could give a rat’s rump if the seat is up or down?

Yes, I admit it would be hard to be strong under circumstances as extreme as those.  Especially if she isn’t always asking silly questions like "What’s *wrong* with you?!", and she can supply a good answer to a simple question like"What’s the big deal?", and she doesn’t decide that she doesn’t want to date men anymore after just a few dates, and all that other silly stuff women can be prone to. Timothy Juvenal

Response:

We must be strong, men!  We must resist if we are to prevail in the war between men and women!  We must _insist_ that they leave the seat up!   For the dignity of all mankind!

I’ve found that insisting that the seat AND lid remain down works better.  It looks better and if you have kids/pets it keeps them out of the toilet seem to work well as reasons for her to do it. Also negates the argument over falling in.  You can beat them at their own game.  :-)      - Ken

Response:

….And what if you should be so unfortunate as to find a lady who is a flyfisher? Worse yet, what if she is a flyfisher AND flytyer AND could give a rat’s rump if the seat is up or down?

And a masseuse. Don’t forget that. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

I’ve found that insisting that the seat AND lid remain down works better.  It looks better and if you have kids/pets it keeps them out of the toilet seem to work well as reasons for her to do it.

I use the same argument in reverse. What if the dogs get thirsty? It works for me, and it works for them. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Stand at the greeting card rack checking out all the romance cards.  Buy one and let her see you pay for it.  When you’re alone, throw it away. George Gehrke

Response:

….And what if you should be so unfortunate as to find a lady who is a flyfisher? Worse yet, what if she is a flyfisher AND flytyer AND could give a rat’s rump if the seat is up or down? And a masseuse. Don’t forget that.

   Shoot, I only got two out of the four.               Charlie,               who ties her flies AND leaves the seat down

Response:

"rw"  wrote… What if the dogs get thirsty?

So, a dog walks into a bar and says to the bartender, "It’s my birthday!  Do I get a free drink?"  And the bartender says, "Sure, the toilet’s down the hall!" Timothy Juvenal

Response:

"rw"  wrote… What if the dogs get thirsty? So, a dog walks into a bar and says to the bartender, "It’s my birthday!  Do I get a free drink?"  And the bartender says, "Sure, the toilet’s down the hall!"

T’ain’t nothin’ til ya hear about how RW’s dog mistook a nude sun-worshipper for a walking sausage factory. Mu

Response:

Glad to see that this appetizing (if OT) title has had so many bites . . . Lazarus — Lazarus Cooke

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Question:

Hello all; Looking for recommendations for a good smallmouth streams in the King of Prussia, Pennsylvania area.  I will be in the Hatboro/Philadelphia area on business Thursday and plan on a little fly fishing Thursday night and Friday.  I will be wading.  Thanks in advance for your suggestions. Joe

Response:

A decent smallie area is the Perkiomen watershed park at routes 73 and 29 just outside of Collegeville (its in Schwenksville to be technical). Another area is the Evansburg park area on Germantown Pike. I can give you better directions if either sound appealing. Ron

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all; Looking for recommendations for a good smallmouth streams in the King of Prussia, Pennsylvania area.  I will be in the Hatboro/Philadelphia area on business Thursday and plan on a little fly fishing Thursday night and Friday.  I will be wading.  Thanks in advance for your suggestions. Joe

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Question:

I’ll cook up some wild rice the night before along with a chiffonnade of whatever root vegetables October brings to market in that part of North Carolina and we’ll have a proper feast. A dry reisling would be good but I’m not slavish to the notion of white’s with fish. My latest "find", and all my "finds" are under $15, is the 1996 Syrah from Lonetree winery. Highly recommended and perfect for a crisp fall lunch of fresh trout in the Smokies. http://www.lonetreewine.com/ http://winetoday.com/reviews/0002241.html — Ken Fortenberry

Uhh, Ken how come you only brought Bud when PJ and I accompanied the two of you?  Four’s a crowd?    The next hike up Snowbird better include all the fixin’s.  :) Peter

Response:

peter…you mean you didn’t get any of the coq-au-vin ken whipped up trailside on snowbird?  he assured me he was going to save some for you and pj…the white wine wasn’t that good, so you didn’t miss much there. jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ll cook up some wild rice the night before along with a chiffonnade of whatever root vegetables October brings to market in that part of North Carolina and we’ll have a proper feast. A dry reisling would be good but I’m not slavish to the notion of white’s with fish. My latest "find", and all my "finds" are under $15, is the 1996 Syrah from Lonetree winery. Highly recommended and perfect for a crisp fall lunch of fresh trout in the Smokies. http://www.lonetreewine.com/ http://winetoday.com/reviews/0002241.html — Ken Fortenberry Uhh, Ken how come you only brought Bud when PJ and I accompanied the two of you?  Four’s a crowd?    The next hike up Snowbird better include all the fixin’s.  :) Peter

Response:

Uhh, Ken how come you only brought Bud when PJ and I accompanied the two of you?  

As you recall, I was trying to "be like Mike" and had the grandmother of all hangovers that day. Bud, and as it happens Wild Turkey and screaming suicidal death rides, are therapeutic in such cases, food definitely is not. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Max, Would a fly fishing rod that I can collapse (to fit in or tie to a backpack) just be a waste of time, or would I not notice much difference while casting?

Collapsable rods are a joke for fly fishing.  If you _must_ have compactness, get a 3 or 4 piece fly rod.  But, before you spend the bucks for that, try a trip with your regular 2-pc rod. My backpack has "ski-sleeves" behind the side pockets and I’ve found that I can easily carry an 8 or 9 foot, 2-pc rod with no inconvenience. Has anyone every used these?  Would it be a good backpacking/fly fishing tactic to use a set of these with a set of thin hip waders?

Try a pair of neoprene socks over flyweight waders — and a pair of Tevas.   Any other tips for integrating backpacking and fly fishing into the same outing?

Butter Salt Pepper Lemon juice Aluminum foil My first fly fishing experience was on a backpacking trip to some high Sierra lakes.  Having absolutely no confidence in my ability to catch fish, we packed in a full supply of food. Three days later, we packed out our full supply of food — except for the butter, salt, pepper, lemon juice and aluminum foil.  We’d lucked onto a lake full of brookies on the brink of overpopulation. Absolutely gorged on them. If you expect there’ll still be a fair amount of snow around, add some zip-lock bags, chopped onion & bell peppers and lime juice.  Dice your fish. Mix it with the onion & peppers. Put the mixture in a zip-lock and add plenty of lime juice.  Bury it in a snow bank for several hours.  The French call this raw fish preparation ceviche.  Mmmmm, mmmmm! Wes Peterson

Response:

 The French call this raw fish preparation ceviche.  

What a coincidence ! That’s EXACTLY what the Mexicans call it. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

 The French call this raw fish preparation ceviche. What a coincidence ! That’s EXACTLY what the Mexicans call it. — Ken Fortenberry

Ken, When I was in Venezuela, the told me it was Peruvian, when I was in Peru, they told me it was Venezuelan. Who knows? Tom — Tom Brown The Signal Group Wake Forest, NC I shall be telling this with a sigh Somewhere ages and ages hence: Two roads diverged in a wood, and I- I took the one less traveled by, And that has made all the difference.             Robert Frost (1874-1963)

Response:

I backpack a lot, and I have recently become addicted to fly fishing.  I would love to integrate the two activities in the same outing.  I have seen the rods that you can collapse.  I have used these types of rods with spinner fishing.  I know that the rod is more important in fly fishing than spinner fishing. Would a fly fishing rod that I can collapse (to fit in or tie to a backpack) just be a waste of time, or would I not notice much difference while casting?

Sage makes some great 5-piece rods, but they’re very expensive. I have a 5-piece 5-weight SP and I love it. Typical of Sage rods, it’s very stiff, but I really couldn’t tell any difference between a 5-piece and a 4-piece. They come with a extra tip, a beautiful, light-weight, 25-inch-long, aluminum rod case, and a lifetime guarantee. One nice thing about these rods is that you can fit them in your carry-on luggage. Sometimes, though, I just take my 2-piece 9-foot Walton Powell and use the PVC rod case as a walking stick! As for wading, if I don’t plan to wade wet I pack my Patagonia breathable waders and lightweight boots. Together, they weigh maybe 3 pounds. Another good investment, if you plan to fish backcountry lakes, would be a lightweight float tube. Bill Kiene recommended the Wood River line to me, and I really like the one I bought — the Summer Breeze model. With a float tube you’re talking about some significant weight, but it’s reasonable for short, easy trips. — something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

 With Ghee and a light dusting of the flour you can cook up trout meuniere. Hope this helps. — Ken Fortenberry

…ok, ken…fallball…let’s hike the road to nowhere above Noland…you bring the gourmet cookin stuff and i’ll bring…the wine…uh, i’ll also try to catch some trout…looking forward to a streamside meal from chef fortenberry. jeff (in watauga county preparin for an afternoon trout stalkin)

Response:

0] : I backpack a lot, and I have recently become addicted to fly fishing.  I : would love to integrate the two activities in the same outing.  I have seen : the rods that you can collapse.  I have used these types of rods with : spinner fishing.  I know that the rod is more important in fly fishing than : spinner fishing. : Would a fly fishing rod that I can collapse (to fit in or tie to a backpack) : just be a waste of time, or would I not notice much difference while : casting? : I have seen plastic stockings that are designed to fit over a shoe or boot, : and keep the shoes and feet dry.  These were really lightweight, but I’m not : sure if they work. : Has anyone every used these?  Would it be a good backpacking/fly fishing : tactic to use a set of these with a set of thin hip waders? : Any other tips for integrating backpacking and fly fishing into the same : outing? : thanks : Max A lot of rods, perhaps most, from most manufacturers come in 2, 3, and 4 piece versions so you should be able to find a satisfactory rod in your price range. Collapsible rods are junk. The solution I like for wading in the back country is thin hippers with dive booties pulled over them, preferably the kind of booties that dont have zippers. A fanny pack makes a pretty good substitute for a vest. Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories  (remove x’s from email if not      Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971   a spammer) Phone: (650)-857-5491              

Response:

you bring the gourmet cookin stuff and i’ll bring…the wine…uh, i’ll also try to catch some trout…

Four miles up Noland from the "road to nowhere" at the confluence of Mill Creek is the abandoned town of Solola Valley. The park service has put in an outhouse, some picnic tables and a hitchin’ rack for those that use horses. We can hike up to Solola Valley, fish the rest of the morning then repair to one of the picnic tables for a streamside lunch. I’ll cook up some wild rice the night before along with a chiffonnade of whatever root vegetables October brings to market in that part of North Carolina and we’ll have a proper feast. A dry reisling would be good but I’m not slavish to the notion of white’s with fish. My latest "find", and all my "finds" are under $15, is the 1996 Syrah from Lonetree winery. Highly recommended and perfect for a crisp fall lunch of fresh trout in the Smokies. http://www.lonetreewine.com/ http://winetoday.com/reviews/0002241.html — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

I’ll cook up some wild rice the night before along with a chiffonnade of whatever root vegetables October brings to market in that part of North Carolina and we’ll have a proper feast. A dry reisling would be good but I’m not slavish to the notion of white’s with fish. My latest "find", and all my "finds" are under $15, is the 1996 Syrah from Lonetree winery. Highly recommended and perfect for a crisp fall lunch of fresh trout in the Smokies.

        goddammit, forty, if you were a chick, i’d leave home for you. wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -http://www.lonetreewine.com/ http://winetoday.com/reviews/0002241.html — Ken Fortenberry

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alright!!!  …reserve a place at the picnic table for me. everyone other than the chef ought to carry at least one bottle of wine for a proper solola valley wine tasting and trout cook…but, if the smokies scotch tasting was a forecast (or backcast) of events, we might need a horse or two to get out of the valley… jeff   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – you bring the gourmet cookin stuff and i’ll bring…the wine…uh, i’ll also try to catch some trout… Four miles up Noland from the "road to nowhere" at the confluence of Mill Creek is the abandoned town of Solola Valley. The park service has put in an outhouse, some picnic tables and a hitchin’ rack for those that use horses. We can hike up to Solola Valley, fish the rest of the morning then repair to one of the picnic tables for a streamside lunch. I’ll cook up some wild rice the night before along with a chiffonnade of whatever root vegetables October brings to market in that part of North Carolina and we’ll have a proper feast. A dry reisling would be good but I’m not slavish to the notion of white’s with fish. My latest "find", and all my "finds" are under $15, is the 1996 Syrah from Lonetree winery. Highly recommended and perfect for a crisp fall lunch of fresh trout in the Smokies. http://www.lonetreewine.com/ http://winetoday.com/reviews/0002241.html — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I backpack a lot, and I have recently become addicted to fly fishing. … Any other tips for integrating backpacking and fly fishing into the same outing? Multi piece rods are the way to go. Collapsibles are junk. Get a good 3 or 4 piece rod appropriate for the streams you’ll fish. I’ve heard recommendations here for St. Croix & Cabela’s in the moderate price range, I’m partial to a 3 piece Winston. Leave the vest at home and consolidate flies, leader(s), tippet spool(s), nail clipper, hook hone and thermometer into two pocket size containers. Get a fishing shirt in a neutral color that has two big front pockets with button down flaps big enough to accomodate the two containers mentioned above. For wading I use Teva sandals with a neoprene sock over a silk liner sock and "miracle pants", those nylon hiking/outdoor pants that dry almost instantly. Go to the Indian food store and get a jar of Ghee. It’s clarified butter at a fraction of the price of the backpacker variety. Put some in a small unbreakable container and put that and a bit of flour in with your cook kit. With Ghee and a light dusting of the flour you can cook up trout meuniere.

Agree entirely with the additional suggestions of using a fanny pack.  Not the expensive "fly-fishing" fanny packs that Sage/Simms/et al sell, just some generic one.  And that it’s easy enough to make your own Ghee.  The stuff never spoils so you never have to worry about refrigeration or the heat.  Add a couple spices to your flour ahead of time and you’re good to go. Speaking of which…      - Ken — "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the  initiative in creating the Internet."  - Al Gore

Response:

[snip] I’ve heard recommendations here for St. Croix & Cabela’s in the moderate price range, I’m partial to a 3 piece Winston.

Forty, your predilection for lousy beer is well countered by your taste for fine rods. /daytripper ;^)

Response:

‘grats guys…jeez wine in the apps…. guess ya’ll be geetin sohhffttt… me? ‘morrow…hungover…fishin’ the most beautifil water in the world with pals (wish you were heh) and enjoying this fine art to the fullest… waldo… on the sun spine of g’fatha alright!!!  …reserve a place at the picnic table for me. everyone other than the chef ought to carry at least one bottle of wine for a proper solola valley wine tasting and trout cook…but, if the smokies scotch tasting was a forecast (or backcast) of events, we might need a horse or two to get out of the valley… I don’t have a horse but I expect I could waddle my fat butt up there and *maybe* back<g. Sounds like a great picnic plan. — Charlie…

– Ezflyfish.com                 Blue Ridge Book Gallery Quality Gear & Service        Used & Out-of-Print Books http://www.ezflyfish.com      http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

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walt…hah, no doubt marie must be off the mountain visiting somewhere…it’s past one in the morning, yer well-oiled, acting independent and "manlike",and bangin away on the computer. damn, i’m envious. …if you come along in october, you can use the most excellent wine we’ll be bringin as a chaser for yer wine alternatives – you know, that stuff bottled down in the hollars in mason ("Masson"??) jars, dripped fresh from the coils – actually, you and i probably could use a dip in the "couth" tank from time to time <G. jeff (i’ll not whine before it’s time) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ‘grats guys…jeez wine in the apps…. guess ya’ll be geetin sohhffttt… me? ‘morrow…hungover…fishin’ the most beautifil water in the world with pals (wish you were heh) and enjoying this fine art to the fullest… waldo… on the sun spine of g’fatha alright!!!  …reserve a place at the picnic table for me. everyone other than the chef ought to carry at least one bottle of wine for a proper solola valley wine tasting and trout cook…but, if the smokies scotch tasting was a forecast (or backcast) of events, we might need a horse or two to get out of the valley… I don’t have a horse but I expect I could waddle my fat butt up there and *maybe* back<g. Sounds like a great picnic plan. — Charlie… — Ezflyfish.com                 Blue Ridge Book Gallery Quality Gear & Service        Used & Out-of-Print Books http://www.ezflyfish.com      http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

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        goddammit, forty, if you were a chick, i’d leave home for you. wayno

ROTFLMAO, Wayno Mark Faulkner

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Would a fly fishing rod that I can collapse (to fit in or tie to a backpack) just be a waste of time, or would I not notice much difference while casting?

There are a LOT of multi-piece flyrods that pack down to very managable sizes.  I’ve got a 5pc. Scott rod that can fit INSIDE my daypack and it cost about $200 on clearance.  You don’t need the most expensive rod, just a good tool for the task. Alpine trout do tend to be greedier and so the massive fly selection is not necessary.  Adames, Humpies, mosquitos, Coachmens, Terrestrials (especially ants) keep me in fish all day.  A few nymphs never hurt. I have seen plastic stockings that are designed to fit over a shoe or boot, and keep the shoes and feet dry.  These were really lightweight, but I’m not sure if they work. Has anyone every used these?  Would it be a good backpacking/fly fishing tactic to use a set of these with a set of thin hip waders?

Thin waders, then the bootie, then your Tevas or ratty converse tennies.  If like in the Eastern Sierra, you’re fishing small streams to spooky trout, I spend most of the time on my knees anyway. Any other tips for integrating backpacking and fly fishing into the same outing?

It’s not really that much more stuff to bring.  I started lugging less camera gear and my load lightened immensely. Good Luck Bob

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It’s not really that much more stuff to bring.  I started lugging less camera gear and my load lightened immensely.

Amen about the camera gear. Now I just take disposable cameras. One panoramic and one a normal field-of-view camera. If I’m rafting or doing risky wading I’ll take a waterproof disposable. Actually, you can soak a non-waterproof disposable and the exposed shots will develop fine, as long as the film is dried out before processing. Forget about the rest of the roll, though. The quality of the photos is fine, especially if you’re just going to scan them into a relatively low-resolution digital format. — something bogus to avoid spam)

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For wading I use Teva sandals with a neoprene sock over a silk liner sock and "miracle pants", those nylon hiking/outdoor pants that dry almost instantly.

That’s almost exactly what I do.. although the cold Sierra lakes that I backpack to make it tough to stay in too long.. Go to the Indian food store and get a jar of Ghee. It’s clarified butter at a fraction of the price of the backpacker variety.

That’s EXACTLY what I do.. but, of course, I also pack in a couple of lemons and my own seasoning too.  Worth the weight.. — -Mark/Particle Salad Particle Salad/Noom Room Studio http://home.earthlink.net/~psalad

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Backpacking is the ONLY way to fly!  :) I have a 4-piece rod that I take apart and simply tie to one of the side metal frame pieces of my external frame pack.  I’ve never had trouble, but I wouldn’t take my best rod.. I have a Fenwick spin/fly rod that I take on trips like these so I can reach farther out in the lake (I haven’t packed a float tube yet, though have been considering it lately). My advice.. do it, you won’t regret it! -Mark – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I backpack a lot, and I have recently become addicted to fly fishing.  I would love to integrate the two activities in the same outing.  I have seen the rods that you can collapse.  I have used these types of rods with spinner fishing.  I know that the rod is more important in fly fishing than spinner fishing. Would a fly fishing rod that I can collapse (to fit in or tie to a backpack) just be a waste of time, or would I not notice much difference while casting? I have seen plastic stockings that are designed to fit over a shoe or boot, and keep the shoes and feet dry.  These were really lightweight, but I’m not sure if they work. Has anyone every used these?  Would it be a good backpacking/fly fishing tactic to use a set of these with a set of thin hip waders? Any other tips for integrating backpacking and fly fishing into the same outing? thanks Max

– -Mark/Particle Salad Particle Salad/Noom Room Studio http://home.earthlink.net/~psalad

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<snip Hi Max; Multiple piece rods are fairly popular for backpacking but I’ve always found them somewhat unsatisfactory.  The more pieces you have, the more likely it is that the thing will come apart while casting.  Multiple joints also affect the action of the rod.  I have often carried a standard two piece rod while backpacking and had very little trouble with it.  A 4 1/2 ft. rod case will sometimes catch on low branches or other obstructions but in my experience it has not happened often enough to be considered a major problem. On short trips where weight was not a major consideration I have carried light weight waders and boots.  While this is a very comfortable way to fish I don’t consider the comfort worth the extra weight or space on longer or more arduous trips.  In such cases I bring a pair of Rock Socks or other light weight footwear and wade wet, but I wade wet a lot anyway.  I have found that I’m comfortable in colder water than most of the people I have fished with, so you’ll have to judge for yourself how viable this option is for you. Tight Lines!

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I backpack a lot, and I have recently become addicted to fly fishing. … Any other tips for integrating backpacking and fly fishing into the same outing?

Multi piece rods are the way to go. Collapsibles are junk. Get a good 3 or 4 piece rod appropriate for the streams you’ll fish. I’ve heard recommendations here for St. Croix & Cabela’s in the moderate price range, I’m partial to a 3 piece Winston. Leave the vest at home and consolidate flies, leader(s), tippet spool(s), nail clipper, hook hone and thermometer into two pocket size containers. Get a fishing shirt in a neutral color that has two big front pockets with button down flaps big enough to accomodate the two containers mentioned above. For wading I use Teva sandals with a neoprene sock over a silk liner sock and "miracle pants", those nylon hiking/outdoor pants that dry almost instantly. Go to the Indian food store and get a jar of Ghee. It’s clarified butter at a fraction of the price of the backpacker variety. Put some in a small unbreakable container and put that and a bit of flour in with your cook kit. With Ghee and a light dusting of the flour you can cook up trout meuniere. Hope this helps. — Ken Fortenberry

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I backpack a lot, and I have recently become addicted to fly fishing.  I would love to integrate the two activities in the same outing.  I have seen the rods that you can collapse.  I have used these types of rods with spinner fishing.  I know that the rod is more important in fly fishing than spinner fishing. Would a fly fishing rod that I can collapse (to fit in or tie to a backpack) just be a waste of time, or would I not notice much difference while casting? I have seen plastic stockings that are designed to fit over a shoe or boot, and keep the shoes and feet dry.  These were really lightweight, but I’m not sure if they work. Has anyone every used these?  Would it be a good backpacking/fly fishing tactic to use a set of these with a set of thin hip waders? Any other tips for integrating backpacking and fly fishing into the same outing? thanks Max

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Generally, the ferrule of the rod is stiffer so you may notice the rod has a stiffer action (based on 3 or 4 pieces).  One thing I’ve learned from experience (and I know I will have a lot of opposition here) is that the old fiberglass rods are much more durable than the new graphite rods.  Reason being if your graphite rod drops and hits a rock, you can shatter it and not know it until you take a cast and the rod breaks in half!  Fiberglass doesn’t have this problem.  As an FYI, I’ve also performed the sinful task of attaching a spinning real to the fly rod – works really well if you want options on a trip! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I backpack a lot, and I have recently become addicted to fly fishing.  I would love to integrate the two activities in the same outing.  I have seen the rods that you can collapse.  I have used these types of rods with spinner fishing.  I know that the rod is more important in fly fishing than spinner fishing. Would a fly fishing rod that I can collapse (to fit in or tie to a backpack) just be a waste of time, or would I not notice much difference while casting? I have seen plastic stockings that are designed to fit over a shoe or boot, and keep the shoes and feet dry.  These were really lightweight, but I’m not sure if they work. Has anyone every used these?  Would it be a good backpacking/fly fishing tactic to use a set of these with a set of thin hip waders? Any other tips for integrating backpacking and fly fishing into the same outing? thanks Max

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Question:

Has anyone used Rain-X as floatant? How does it work? Shinji

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I bet it would work great at first.  But if you’ll read the label, it has some really strong petroleum distillates.  I woud think it would damge fly line and leave a horrendous taste on flies. As for myself, a rueben sandwich with hot peppers and a budweiser pretty much makes me unsinkable. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone used Rain-X as floatant? How does it work? Shinji

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it has some really strong petroleum distillates.  I woud think it would

damge flyline and leave a horrendous taste on flies. It’s been more than 50 years since my last chemistry class, but aren’t "distillates" volatile?  Wouldn’t they evaporate? vince norris

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Rain-X ought to work.  It’s basically wax in some solvents (distillates) and when they evaporate, it leaves an easy to polish windshield. Not knowing what the distillates are, it is unclear what effect they might have on the fly head cement, artificial and natural colors, waxed thread, etc. "Some mornings I wonder if it was worth it to gnaw through the leather straps."  – E. Philips

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Rain-X ought to work.  It’s basically wax in some solvents (distillates) and when they evaporate, it leaves an easy to polish windshield.

        my god, george gherke, are you suffering from laryngitits, or under arrest in a foreign land, or asleep, or have you simply expired?         a. wayne harrison

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Rain-X ought to work.  It’s basically wax in some solvents (distillates) and when they evaporate, it leaves an easy to polish windshield.         my god, george gherke, are you suffering from laryngitits, or under arrest in a foreign land, or asleep, or have you simply expired?         a. wayne harrison

The problem with products containing distilates (in fact, just about anything with an organic solvent) is that the solvents will interact with the plasticizers in the fly line.  Most lines today are built with a plastic coating over a braided core.  If you get solvent onto the coating, a wide variety of things can happen, most of them bad.  Typical results can include (but are not limited to) cracking, softening, peeling, loss of the outer skin, etc.  Probably the worst one is the softening.  I have seen fly lines that were contaminated with gasoline or diesel.  These lines were as limp as overcooked spaghetti, and cast about as well.   Other things you need to be really careful about are- sunscreen, and insect repellant. Be very careful about what you put on your $50 fly line, it could ruin your day.  There are a variety of "resonably priced" line cleaners and dressings out there.  Personally I like Glide, with the caveat that I have to be able to let it dry for long enough before I buff it off(1-2 hrs)-If you do not let it dry, or do not remove excess, it is like glue.  Otherwise, I will use SA line cleaner and dressing in a pinch.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Rain-X ought to work.  It’s basically wax in some solvents (distillates) and when they evaporate, it leaves an easy to polish windshield.         my god, george gherke, are you suffering from laryngitits, or under arrest in a foreign land, or asleep, or have you simply expired?         a. wayne harrison The problem with products containing distilates (in fact, just about anything with an organic solvent) is that the solvents will interact with the plasticizers in the fly line.  Most lines today are built with a plastic coating over a braided core.

The Advantage to using rain x is it works best when dry. You pre treat all flies the night before. The next day you are ready and will not get any thing on the flyline but the water you are fishing in. Jim

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <HTML &nbsp; <BR <BR <BR Rain-X ought to work.&nbsp; It’s basically wax in some solvents (distillates) and <BR when they evaporate, it leaves an easy to polish windshield. <BR <BR&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; my god, george gherke, are you suffering from laryngitits, or <BR under arrest in a foreign land, or asleep, or have you simply expired? <BR <BR&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; a. wayne harrison</BLOCKQUOTE _______ No Wayne honey, I’m not asleep.&nbsp; I just know you know better.What you say about solvents destroying fly lines is excellent and accurate. <Pgeorge gehrke <BRmr. gink <P_______ Now you force me to review the copy below that followed. <

        i knew you wouldn’t dissapoint me, george…         a. wayne harrison

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The last distallate I tasted was in a little ’shne from the hills.  Didn’t like the taste….. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – it has some really strong petroleum distillates.  I woud think it would damge fly line and leave a horrendous taste on flies. It’s been more than 50 years since my last chemistry class, but aren’t "distillates" volatile?  Wouldn’t they evaporate? Home heating oil is a distillate. Try pouring some of that around your basement floor and see how fast it evaporates…

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it has some really strong petroleum distillates.  I woud think it would damge fly line and leave a horrendous taste on flies. It’s been more than 50 years since my last chemistry class, but aren’t "distillates" volatile?  Wouldn’t they evaporate?

Home heating oil is a distillate. Try pouring some of that around your basement floor and see how fast it evaporates…

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Question:

Anyone know of a site with a Loon call .wav file on it?  We are looking for one to put on a new fly fishing site. — Paul Phillips Director of Operations Fintastic Fish Mounts http://www.fintastic.com/ Remove the 1 for E-mail

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Anyone know of a site with a Loon call .wav file on it?  We are looking for one to put on a new fly fishing site.

The Roger Tory Peterson bird watching CD (Houghton Mifflin) has good recordings of bird calls: copyright of course. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Anyone know of a site with a Loon call .wav file on it?  We are looking for one to put on a new fly fishing site. Not .wav but I have had a *.au loon call at my fishing page for years. See:  http://www.acs.ucalgary.ca/~powlesla/personal/fishing/

… you post this and suddenly Tim’s back! He heard it, he heard it! Ralph H note spurious hyperbole, insults and ‘personal attacks’ made by the author are meant to honour "the Soul of Cicero" and are not intended as personal slights. Please don’t take offense as none is intended. remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

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Anyone know of a site with a Loon call .wav file on it?  We are looking for one to put on a new fly fishing site. Not .wav but I have had a *.au loon call at my fishing page for years. See:  http://www.acs.ucalgary.ca/~powlesla/personal/fishing/

Why on earth would anyone want a recorded Loon call?  I spent more weekends than I care to remember in the BWCA as a kid with my Dad getting eaten alive by blackflies, having to endure the never-ending Loon calls.   Oh the Loons were pretty cool for the first couple seasons, but after One swam by our tent one night, and cut loose about 30 feet from it.   That’ll turn you off to Loons in a real hurry, believe you me.  Right up there with seagulls (read: skyrats), Gray Jays, and whip-poor-wills. BTW:  I NEVER liked the Blackflies. </chaz

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My wife usually says…… =8^)

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Question:

I recently inherited a split cane fly rod and would like to identify its source and possible age.  It is a 3 piece, 10′6", with spare top section, has screw type ferrules, cork grip, and wrappings approx. every inch along its length. I always thought it was a salmon rod but the last time I was allowed to use it was about 1950 in England, so my memory is a bit hazy.

It would be unlikely (though not impossible) that it’s primary function was as a salmon rod. Even today salmon in Britain are normally fished for with two-handed rods, from 12 to 15 or more feet long. You may fish for summer fish with a shorter rod but you’ll then be said to be fishing with a trout rod. It might well be one of two things: a sea-trout rod (in other words trout that migrate to sea like steelhead) and are fished for on rivers – that is if the action is quite tight and fast, or, I think more likely,  a boat rod,  for fishing for trout from a boat drifiting along on a lake with the prevailing wind. In this fashion, casts are quite short, and very soft rods were used – very often around this length. I still have one my father inherited in the 1920s from a major Irish fisherman, but I must say that I find it unfishable. I fish with split cane on the English chalkstreams, but anything of ten foot I would find very hard going

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I recently inherited a split cane fly rod and would like to identify its source and possible age.  It is a 3 piece, 10′6", with spare top section, has screw type ferrules, cork grip, and wrappings approx. every inch along its length. I always thought it was a salmon rod but the last time I was allowed to use it was about 1950 in England, so my memory is a bit hazy. The only identifying mark is on the brass butt piece and that has partially worn off.  It has the inscription  " CA??ER and CO.  London  ". I’m not expecting it to be of any value, other than sentimental, but I would like to know its age and origins. Also I intend to fish with it so could somebody give me some idea of the possible line weight used with these rods.   Thanks  Ed — Ed Fenton Burlington, Ontario, Canada

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Ed, I think this rod was made by (or for ?) Carter & Co., London that appears to have been a tackle store (??) that existed from 1853 till 1969. The company changed it’s name from Alfred Carter to Carter & Co. in 1901, so your rod is definitely post 1901. This is all I could find out from my books. regards Inge Solberg Houston, TX – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I recently inherited a split cane fly rod and would like to identify its source and possible age. It is a 3 piece, 10′6", with spare top section, has screw type ferrules, cork grip, and wrappings approx. every inch along its length. I always thought it was a salmon rod but the last time I was allowed to use it was about 1950 in England, so my memory is a bit hazy. The only identifying mark is on the brass butt piece and that has partially worn off.  It has the inscription  " CA??ER and CO.  London  ". I’m not expecting it to be of any value, other than sentimental, but I would like to know its age and origins. Also I intend to fish with it so could somebody give me some idea of the possible line weight used with these rods.   Thanks  Ed — Ed Fenton Burlington, Ontario, Canada

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently inherited a split cane fly rod and would like to identify its source and possible age.  It is a 3 piece, 10′6", with spare top section, has screw type ferrules, cork grip, and wrappings approx. every inch along its length. I always thought it was a salmon rod but the last time I was allowed to use it was about 1950 in England, so my memory is a bit hazy. The only identifying mark is on the brass butt piece and that has partially worn off.  It has the inscription  " CA??ER and CO.  London  ". I’m not expecting it to be of any value, other than sentimental, but I would like to know its age and origins. Also I intend to fish with it so could somebody give me some idea of the possible line weight used with these rods. Thanks  Ed — Ed Fenton Burlington, Ontario, Canada

Heck, I’m no expert (for sure) but I may be able to point you in the right direction.  It does sound like a salmon rod, probably taking about an 8 to 10 weight line.  The wraps every inch or so were called "intermediate wraps" and were originally used when glues weren’t very good.  However, UK-built rods seem to value tradition and rods with intermediate wraps were available in the 1970’s (I believe from Clifford Constable — or was it J.Sharpe?).  In my web wanderings I found a site that frequently auctions cane rods in the UK (I think it is www.auctions-on-line.com, if that doesn’t work e-mail me and I’ll find it) with descriptions, etc.  Sorry I can’t help with the name of the actual maker — I only know of companies that were on the scene in the 1970’s or later (i.e., Hardy, Constable, Farlow, Sharpe, Partridge, etc.). BTW–If you do find out exactly what it is, please post a follow-up. George (Irish descent, not living in Ireland)

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Question:

For nymphing I use an intermediate line.

Is that right?  On rivers as well as lakes?  Seems like line control would be a problem.  Isn’t it? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – -Burton — L. Burton Hawley         2330 NW Hummingbird Corvallis, OR

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Just my .02 cents worth. A double taper will always roll cast better because of the line structure. On a double taper you are casting (roll) a taper section(larger) vs a wt fwd which will be into running line which is smaller. Tight Loops KenW   —

A double taper will only roll cast better if you roll cast longer than the line belly. Assuming that your rod and your leader are 9ft each, the front taper including the line belly is 36 ft you are talking about a 54ft roll cast! Most trout are caught within a shorter distance. In other words: no advantage for the DT line. The real advantage is that line handling (mending) longer lines is easier and that you can turn around a DT which makes it possible to use a DT line twice as long. The best roll-casting line I found so far is the Wulff Triangle Taper with it’s 36-40ft of tapered line belly (depending on the line weight). Thomas — Thomas Urbig

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I got in on this discussion rather late, so pardon me if I missed something. A double taper will only roll cast better if you roll cast longer than the line belly. Assuming that your rod and your leader are 9ft each, the front taper including the line belly is 36 ft you are talking about a 54ft roll cast! Most trout are caught within a shorter distance. In other words: no advantage for the DT line. The real advantage is that line handling (mending) longer lines is easier and that you can turn around a DT which makes it possible to use a DT line twice as long. The best roll-casting line I found so far is the Wulff Triangle Taper with it’s 36-40ft of tapered line belly (depending on the line weight).

A double-taper is a real asset if you aerialize your roll cast and combine it with a single haul.  This will make a 54′ roll cast easy even on 5 wt. rods.  To do this, you want to make a _small_ backcast so that about 4-5′ of the tip of the line hit the water next to you.   You’ll have a big loop of the line also next to you.  As soon as the last 4-5′ of line hit the water, you start the forward cast and add a single-haul. I live in the Pacific Northwest and out here, spey casting has grown in popularity dramatically.  In the winter, we get a lot of rain and the rivers swell big time, and spey casting allows us to cast a large fly much further with less effort than any other technique.  I use a 14′ 9wt two-handed rod for steelhead and salmon, and with it, 70-100′ roll casts are a breeze.  For this type of work, a double-taper line is needed.  Scientific Anglers makes a Mastery Series Spey/Salmon line that is 120′ long with a 77′ belly.  It works well, but once you get a lot of line out there, it can be more difficult to work with than a double-taper line. (If you’re not familiar with spey casting, it is swinging the rod to reposition the line to make an aerialized roll cast.  It is often done with two-handed rods but can be done with single-handed rods as well.  One of the neatest things about spey casting is that you can make very long casts without a backcast.  This has great application to anglers who don’t have boats.) Spey casting is hard to describe with words, so if you’ve never seen it, borrow or rent a video on it.  Hugh Faulkus and Derek Brown each have excellent videos. Dan

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I essentially use DT’s and shooting heads. In the past few years I have cut the DT’s in two parts, glued a braided loop connector to the butts, and used only one half with a running line. I like this approach for the following three reasons: 1) I can store the other half in large coils,     so when I “reverse” the line I have a nice,      new line, instead of the portion that was      wound up tightly on the reel 2) I can swap the half DT with the shooting head,         the running line is already on the spool 3) Most of my casting is within 1/2 line (I use    long leaders, a 90′ line/2+12′ leader is     roughly 60′ away.    If you need to cast longer than that, the running     line is much better than the second half of         the DT, since it glides much better through         the guides. -Vittorio

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I have WF4F line on a fly reel I received for Christmas (it is well balanced for my Adams Traveler 4 weight rod). Among other things, for my birthday, I received an extra spool for the reel.  My fishing is primarily in the Great Smoky Mountain National Park which means I fish relatively narrow mountain streams with riffles, pocket water and deep swift pools. I like the WF4F but would like some advice on what type of line (DT, ST, F/S, etc.) would be a good choice for the second spool. Any advice?

Response:

I have WF4F line on a fly reel I received for Christmas (it is well balanced for my Adams Traveler 4 weight rod). Among other things, for my birthday, I received an extra spool for the reel.  My fishing is primarily in the Great Smoky Mountain National Park which means I fish relatively narrow mountain streams with riffles, pocket water and deep swift pools. I like the WF4F but would like some advice on what type of line (DT, ST, F/S, etc.) would be a good choice for the second spool. Any advice?

Another floating line, even a double taper, would not be of any great value. Some type of fast sinking, full length line or sinktip might be nice for the deep, faster runs. Orvis makes a very fast sinking #4 line with a  4′ mini-tip. It is a full length, 80′ or more, of floating line with a 4′ section of very fast sinking line on the end. Cortland makes a weight-forward #4 line in full sinking  in a type 3 rate of sink. Not lots of sinking lines are available for the smaller sizes. On some rods, you can overline one size, particularly with sinking lines and get a few more choices. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

Response:

A double-taper is a real asset if you aerialize your roll cast and combine it with a single haul.  This will make a 54′ roll cast easy even on 5 wt. rods.  To do this, you want to make a _small_ backcast so that about 4-5′ of the tip of the line hit the water next to you.   You’ll have a big loop of the line also next to you.  As soon as the last 4-5′ of line hit the water, you start the forward cast and add a single-haul.

What you describe is an improved roll cast for the one handed rod. This is not only a valuable technique for a 5wt, it even does the job with a 3wt (or even 1wt!). But you can make the job much easier with a WF-line. I use e.g. a 3/4 Wulff Triangle Taper for most of my fishing and with the improved roll cast or spey cast (different techniques, I know!) and a single haul I can almost cast a whole line. That is because you shoot most of the line out which is a domain of the WF line. The disadvantage is that I have to strip in my line to about the back taper of the line belly to make a good cast with the WF which is of course not necessary with the DT line. Should I mention that the Wulff Triangle Taper is really becoming my favourite?! Thomas <valuable stuff about spey casting deleted Dan

– Thomas Urbig

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I have fished the Smokies  and think that a DT 4 line will roll cast much better than the WF 4 in the small confided streams of the area. Snip if you regularly fish the bigger rivers of the area then get one of the mini-sink tips. Thinking of getting one of these myself for my big river trips. Good Luck!

I agree with you completely about the DT.  It never fails to make me laugh when people say they won’t use a DT ’cause you can’t shoot them, and then when you see them cast they false cast all but about 5 feet of their line.  Ooooh, you sure made full use of that WF!  On the minitip though I’m torn.  I have one and it performs and casts very well, but It really lets me down when it comes to fishing a sculpin type fly along the bottom.  I get better depth and longer drifts with my 13 foot type IV 5 weight than with my 6 weight minitip.  For what it does do well though, the minitip is a high quality, VERY long lasting line.  It just isn’t the only sinking tip line you’ll ever need. Phil

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Should I mention that the Wulff Triangle Taper is really becoming my favourite?!

It always has been mine for dry fly fishing.  For nymphing I use an intermediate line. -Burton — L. Burton Hawley         2330 NW Hummingbird Corvallis, OR

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Just my .02 cents worth. A double taper will always roll cast better because of the line structure. On a double taper you are casting (roll) a taper section(larger) vs a wt fwd which will be into running line which is smaller. Tight Loops KenW   —

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For nymphing I use an intermediate line. Is that right?  On rivers as well as lakes?  Seems like line control would be a problem.  Isn’t it?

Yep, I like to get deep fast and have a straight connection to the nymph.   Although my former fishing partner also used intermediates and he like to use a bow in the line as a strike detector.  Personal preference I guess.  What line control problems are you thinking about.  It worked well for us, we caught thousands of fish.  (That was before I stopped and decided to rethink my attitude and purpose re: fishing) -Burton — L. Burton Hawley       2330 NW Hummingbird Corvallis, OR

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        Greg Metzler . I like the WF4F but would like some advice on what type of line (DT, ST, F/S, etc.) would be a good choice for the second spool. Any advice?

I agree with Bill, go with a sink tip.  Orvis, Cortland or Teeny jg

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I have fished the Smokies  and think that a DT 4 line will roll cast much better than the WF 4 in the small confided streams of the area. This is a definite asset on all but the largest rivers. However, if you regularly fish the bigger rivers of the area then get one of the mini-sink tips. Thinking of getting one of these myself for my big river trips. Good Luck!

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Question:

Looking for a 3 wt. rod St Croix Imperials-any experience or comments?

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I have 3 St. Croix Rods (ledgend series) and I think they are a super value. They cast smoothly and have a modulous of graphite equivalent to more expensive rods.  I highly recommend them. Woollyworm

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I bought a 9′ 3-4 wt. St. Croix Imperial this summer for bluegill and am very pleased with it.  The rod is nicely finished and handles a 4wt FWF line very well.  I was originally concerned that a 4wt. might be too light to cast larger panfish poppers, but it casts up to a #6 popper or hair bug with no problems.  At $100 it would be hard to beat.   —

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Been dealing with St. Croix rods for seven years.  Excellent products for the dollar.  The Imperial is available in a 7′ 3/4 or 9′ 3/4.  Both are a high-modulus, relatively fast rods.  Current price as of 10/95 $110 and $120.  You want-I’ve got. E-mail

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St. Croix rods great deal for the money.  Been selling them for 7 years. 2 models avail. in Imperial 3wt.  7foot and 9foot Current prices are $110 and $120 respectively.  Interested? e-mail

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        I couldn’t agree more with the sentiments about St. Croix rods. If you want a Sage rod for half the price, buy a St. Croix Legend series. Lifetime warranty included. It’s not quite as nice a reel seat, but the fish, the fly, and the fly line don’t really care.

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writes: St Croix’s lightest rod is a 7′ 3/4 weight which IMO casts best with a 4 wt line.  It’s a very nice rod for the money.  You can’t get a better rod anywhere even if you spend twice the money or more.  Just too bad they use such a cheezy reel seat, but that’s one way to help keep the price down. IMO, St Croix is an excellent dollar value.

RJ, the "cheesy" reel seat you refer to is not necessarily there for higher profit, even the big names (Orvis, LL Bean, etc.) use aluminum bands on the small light rods, for the weight saving gained in not using wood/metal for a reel seat. I happen to like mine, even preferring the bands to the standard reel seat. Looks cool too. Frank Church Goshen, In

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Right on Jim, if you’ve read my earlier posts on St Croix rods, you know I believe they are the best buy on the market for the money. I have Sage rods to compare them with, and my little 7 footer holds it’s own against Sage. (maybe not in overall quality, but what do the bluegills care??) Frank Church Goshen, In

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: St Croix’s lightest rod is a 7′ 3/4 weight which IMO casts best with a 4 wt line.  It’s a very nice rod for the money.  You can’t get a better rod anywhere even if you spend twice the money or more.  Just too bad they use such a cheezy reel seat, but that’s one way to help keep the price down. IMO, St Croix is an excellent dollar value. RJ, the "cheesy" reel seat you refer to is not necessarily there for higher profit, even the big names (Orvis, LL Bean, etc.) use aluminum bands on the small light rods, for the weight saving gained in not using wood/metal for a reel seat. I happen to like mine, even preferring the bands to the standard reel seat. Looks cool too. Frank Church Goshen, In

 Frank, I agree with you.  I like slip rings, or cap and ring seats and put them  on all the light rods I build.  I was referring to the standard, oversized,  all aluminum, down-locking ones that St. Crx puts on most of their  rods except the Legend series.  I wasn’t aware that St. Crx was using slip  rings on their 7′ model yet/again/for the first time.  From visits to their  factory showroom it’s my impression that they’re a little inconsistent as to  what type of seat they put on that model.  It deserves a light slip ring  seat, not a clunky aluminum one.  - Rj

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Right on Woolworm, I think these rods are an excellent buy and am surprised that they don’t get more mention when someone is looking for a moderately priced rod. Maybe if they offered a "starter" package like Orvis, Sage, Cortland, et al. they might get a little more attention.

Ahhh, there’s the rub! The rods included in the Cortland starter package are made by St. Croix. And pretty durn nice they are, too. I fished with a Cortland 6wt for years, when I couldn’t afford to own five different rods. My wife uses it now, since I’ve aquired the St. Croix 4-5wt 4 piece pack rod. I LIKE IT! Last month I broke it in fishing for cutts in Rocky Mtn. National Park, and it exceeded my expectations of a travel rod. Primo! — And the Lord put aside his huge cigar…-F.Zappa

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After years of fly fishing for pan fish & bass in Nebraska (but not much fishing done in the past 8 years, or so), I’m looking forward to fly fishing for trout after moving to Wyoming.  I’ve been using a Fenwick, 4 piece-7 foot, fiberglass rod with a 6 wt, weight forward line.  The Fenwick must be 20-25 years old.  The reel is a Pflueger Medalist.   I lived in an area where no one fly fished and I haven’t kept up on the advancements in rods.  Since moving to Wyoming, I’ve taken a fly tying class which was great fun and I’m really looking forward to heading to the mountains.  I imagine that there is a vast improvement with the grahpite rods.  I’ve been looking at the St. Croix, Imperial rods in the 5/6 weight.  A couple of people that I’ve visited with suggested the travel rods. Others seem to think that two piece rods work a little better.  I thought since I already have a travel rod (even though it’s old and not state of the art) that perhaps I should buy the two piece rod, although, when hiking into the Cloud Peak wilderness area the two piece rod might be a little cumbersome.   Do you give up anything in going with the 4 piece rod?  Which rod length would be best, the 8′ 6" or the 9′?  I can’t imagine that 6 inches would make much of a difference but it must or they wouldn’t make the two lengths.  I’ll be doing mainly small stream and pond fishing and will probably be buying a float tube.   Thanks for any advice that you might offer to this fly fishing novice.   Would you mind e-mailing me in addition to posting to the group as my news server doesn’t get all of the messages. Thanks, — To reply, remove one "bs" from E-mail address — To reply, remove one "bs" from E-mail address

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Go with the 9 ft. rod. Travel rod if you truly intend air travel with it. therwise don’t bother

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After years of fly fishing for pan fish & bass in Nebraska (but not much fishing done in the past 8 years, or so), I’m looking forward to fly fishing for trout after moving to Wyoming.  I’ve been using a Fenwick, 4 piece-7 foot, fiberglass rod with a 6 wt, weight forward line.  The Fenwick must be 20-25 years old.  The reel is a Pflueger Medalist.  I lived in an area where no one fly fished and I haven’t kept up on the advancements in rods.  Since moving to Wyoming, I’ve taken a fly tying class which was great fun and I’m really looking forward to heading to the mountains.  I imagine that there is a vast improvement with the grahpite rods.  I’ve been looking at the St. Croix, Imperial rods in the 5/6 weight.  A couple of people that I’ve visited with suggested the travel rods. Others seem to think that two piece rods work a little better.  I thought since I already have a travel rod (even though it’s old and not state of the art) that perhaps I should buy the two piece rod, although, when hiking into the Cloud Peak wilderness area the two piece rod might be a little cumbersome.  Do you give up anything in going with the 4 piece rod?  Which rod length would be best, the 8′ 6" or the 9′?  I can’t imagine that 6 inches would make much of a difference but it must or they wouldn’t make the two lengths.  I’ll be doing mainly small stream and pond fishing and will probably be buying a float tube.  Thanks for any advice that you might offer to this fly fishing novice.  Would you mind e-mailing me in addition to posting to the group as my news server doesn’t get all of the messages. Thanks, — To reply, remove one "bs" from E-mail address — To reply, remove one "bs" from E-mail address

If you are planning on using a float tube the 9′ is better. St. Croix rods are one of the best buys for the money. You give up very little in a graphite 4 piece rod compared to a 2 piece.   Joel Axelrad

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Guy, I believe that my 5 wt Legend is 44 million mod. graphite, and I know its super fast.  I toss big stillwater streamer and such.  It needs a good deal of line to even load.  If you like fast the Legend is it, but in 2 -3 -4 wts I prefer slower actions, Sage LL, Powell SS and LG.  If you do too, look into the Imperial line. jg – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -St  Croix. What type of graphite is used and how would the actions be classified? I am interested in the 3-4 wt rods. Any comments pertinent to these rods are appreciated. Thanks.

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I own two St. Croix Imperial rods and they are very different from each other.  One of the rods is a 7 ft. 6 in. 4/5 wt and the other is a 9 ft. 6 in. 7/8 wt.  The 4/5 wt has a fast action, roll casts well, but can be difficult with short overhead or sidearm casts.  The 7/8 wt. has more of a moderate action.  I am not sure if the entire series of rods can be classified as having one particular action.  Don’t really know what type of graphite is used. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would like to find out more about the Imperial and Legend rods from St Croix. What type of graphite is used and how would the actions be classified? I am interested in the 3-4 wt rods. Any comments pertinent to these rods are appreciated. Thanks. Guy

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   I would like to find out more about the Imperial and Legend    rods from St Croix. What type of graphite is used and how    would the actions be classified? I am interested in the 3-4    wt rods. Any comments pertinent to these rods are    appreciated. Thanks.    Guy    Search, Read, Post to Usenet My wife has the St. Croix Imperial 5/6 wt. 8′6" 4-piece.  I’d call it a softer, "medium action" rod (compared with my Sage RPL 6 wt.).  It casts nicely, and the price was right. John Y. Liu via HP200LX palmtop Net-Tamer V 1.06H For HP100/200 & OG700 – Registered

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I would like to find out more about the Imperial and Legend rods from St Croix. What type of graphite is used and how would the actions be classified? I am interested in the 3-4 wt rods. Any comments pertinent to these rods are appreciated. Thanks. Guy

    I don’t know the type of graphite St.Croix uses but I do own 2 Imperials, a 6-7 and  7-8, they are both medium fast. I also own a Cortland 3-4 which is a St.Croix blank and it is medium.    My stepson owns a Legend, its on the fast side of medium fast and a bit lighter than the Imperial line. His Legend is also a 7-8 by 9 ft. 6in. as is my Imperial, so it makes a reasonable comparison.   My son owns a6-7 Imperial also but its an earlyer model than ours and"softer". My origanal6-7 was the same way(now broken).These early ones are gray in color and the later are brown, they do not have the same action.   We also own Sage rods in our family and St. Croix’s work well but they require more effort and the line control is less precise. Sage’s are great and unconditinaly guarateed for life and a guy can be in the "Discovery" series for very few dollars above the Legend, check it out!                       DAVE G.

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I would like to find out more about the Imperial and Legend rods from St Croix. What type of graphite is used and how would the actions be classified? I am interested in the 3-4 wt rods. Any comments pertinent to these rods are appreciated. Thanks. Guy

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Question:

Fish for Dolly Varden, wild trout, Steelhead, Salmon, and more! Join us at our logde for the fishing experience of a lifetime. Check out our web site at <http://www.libby.org/davis/welcome.html

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: Fish for Dolly Varden, wild trout, Steelhead, Salmon, and more! Join us : at our logde for the fishing experience of a lifetime. Check out our web : site at <http://www.libby.org/davis/welcome.html I feel  compelled to respond to the specific claims made on what species are available. My father visited camp Kiklukh last year during the latter part of August into the first few days of September.  He found that this is basically a one fish fishery, silver salmon. Of all the people in camp at the same time, there were only a handful of dolly varden caught and he *heard* of one cutthroat trout being caught. Now, I am not at all trying to be negative on the whole trip because that is not the case.  There were many parts of the trip that were fantastic.  George and Debbie Davis were described as outstanding people.  Of the places we have visited in Alaska, my father’s opinion of Camp Kiklukh was the  absolutely best food he has had and the best silver fishing.  If the fishing was poor around the camp, the anglers were flown out to the Tsiu at no additonal cost just to make sure they got into great numbers of silvers. As I said, I just wanted to clarify what species of fish are available in significant numbers at camp Kiklukh. Kind regards, Steve Kernosky  Ph.D. Michigan Tech University

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