Question:
Well done. Wish I knew Bob so the picture would be absolutely crystal clear, but I get the idea. Great pictures, Wolfie. Dave
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And therein lies both the beauty and the curse of the lowly Power Bar. These little miracles can be recycled indefinitely with no noticeable loss of flavor or change in texture.
That’s because they suck to begin with. Give me an 8 oz bag of King’s peppered beef jerky and a few bags of M&Ms. 
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…..and hoisted our packs once again. Check the crew. Jeff’s wearing a glazed, almost beatific, smile…..endorphins or sumpthin…..he’ll get over it, and Bob just looks cramped and mean. Right. Everybody’s ready. And up the trail we go. Half an hour later, our first real break. Jeffie, the merciless bastard, agrees to a ten minute stop at a campground known, for reasons which by now are of absolutely no interest to me, as "the sawdust pile". As he goes to look at the stream, Bob swigs from a plastic bladder filled with a mysterious brownish fluid, and I search the suspension system of my backpack in the probably vain hope of finding a scapula which I noticed, some time ago, was not in it’s accustomed position in the left dorsal proximal (or maybe it was the distal…….how DOES one tell them apart?) quadrant of my torso, a young couple approaches from downstream. He goes off to admire the stream….or make one of his own, and she stops to chat. They are on a seven mile hike and the turn around is at "the sawdust pile", so we have come three and a half miles. As we rest, several of the elderly day hikers from one of the pontoon boats we passed on the lake straggle in……well, actually, a couple of them blaze by in a swirling cloud of dust and are only barely stopped by the frantic shouts of their friends or they might be in central Labrador by now. It is at this campground that we first notice the bear proof food hangers. At each of the campgrounds the park service has installed one or more of these. A steel cable is stretched between two trees some twenty to thirty feet apart. Suspended from this cable are several more which are formed into continuous loops, each of which runs through a pulley at the top. There is a pair of hooks on each of the loops, and a series of plastics sleeves held in place with nuts and bolts. The sleeves act as handholds, making it easier to haul up the hooked load of food. Each cable also has a sturdy halyard clip which is placed such that it just reaches a screw eye about waist high in the trunk of the tree with the load suspended aloft. Simple, elegant, cheap, and very effective. There will be one more rest stop before arrival at what will become our home for two nights and a day. This time, I open my pack and take out something to eat. Even Jeff is willing to stop for twenty minutes or so, but he is driven and Bob, who wears a look that says, "well, I’d probably like to sit down and die here with you, but I think I’ll take my chances with Jeff this time, nevertheless," accompanies him, leaving me to my fate. "Ya’ll go on ahead," sez I, "I’ll catch up". I dawdle for a bit, enjoying the surroundings and the weather. It is October and the leaves are beautiful. A trout stream rushes by within easy reach and I know that I am within a mile of camp on a trail with an average grade of 2 or 3 percent……a trail which should more properly be called a highway….hell, a veritable Autobahn of hiking trails. This is the sort of trail that backpackers dream about after a hard day of climbing steep ascents over rolling cobbles and through calf deep mud. So, I sit for a while and sip water and smoke a cigarette. The day hikers have been left behind and I have a lovely spot all to myself. Just me and the trees….and the stream….and the rocks….and the bea….um….well shit, maybe it IS time to get moving again. There is no sign of Jeff or Bob for the next half hour. I am just about to cross another bridge when I happen to look to the right and catch a glimpse of movement. Uh oh…….oh, it’s the boys. It appears we have arrived at last. Nice campground. Not quite as barren looking as the others we had passed, and there is a more or less level spot on a tiny spit that over looks the confluence of Hazel and whatever the little feeder that comes out of Bone valley is called. Not all THAT little actually. This is a major tributary for a stream the size of Hazel, carrying about half as much water. We set up camp quickly. Two tents are erected in about fifteen minutes, a clothes line is strung, and three suddenly rejuvenated fly fishers are suited up and ready to rock in another ten or so. Jeff dives in right at the camp site, Bob goes up the tributary, and I walk down a few hundred yards to fish my way back up. Hazel creek is different water than most that I have fished in the North Carolina mountains. Where Santeetlah and the others plunge and roar in a frenzy of moving water, Hazel merely rushes in exuberance. The is bigger water….not BIG, mind you, but bigger. There are actual pools, trenches, runs, and even some sizable eddies where the others have pockets. There are deep holes holding mysteries. There are places too deep and or fast to wade through; you have to go around. An hour or so of fishing produces a few small fish, and that’s enough. I arrive back at the campsite and see Bob working his way up the tributary. We spend the next hour and a half exploring a couple hundred yards of this promising water. The promise is not fulfilled in any spectacular fashion, but we know the fish are there, as they are in Hazel itself, as they HAVE to be in water that looks like this. We have been ASSURED that they are there by witnesses like Jeff and Wayno, but we believe it anyway. Back in camp, we eventually prepare the first of what will be a series of dismal meals. Having flown half way across the country, I came without any food and we survived on what Bob had left over from previous trips and a few odds and ends we picked up in Robbinsville. Not that my bringing anything from home would have made any real difference. I’ve always been fairly indifferent to comestible niceties while on the trail….just too much bother, but I hope I never live to see another "Power Bar", and I believe the others share this sentiment. Damned things look like they’ve been eaten once already, and neither the flavor nor the consistency does anything to dispel that disturbing impression 
Two other campers who arrived while we were out fishing rattle pots and pans (cast iron pans!) as they enjoy what smells like bacon and beans….THEY came in on horses, trailing a pack mule…..bastards! We kindle a fire using the wood which the previous tenants have thoughtfully left for us. It’s a bit of a chore, as the wood is wet….looks and feels like it’s been rained on for a few days. But it is mostly surface moisture and among the three of us we manage to keep a cheery blaze going till late into the night, as we each enjoy his own brand of poison and tell lies. Long about 7:30 Jeff bags it and the rest of the party is not far behind. Morning comes early as Jeffie has not slept a wink…..something about cougars and bears cavorting around his tent all night long. After a hasty breakfast of coffee, liquor, power bar wrappers, and crawly things, it was back to the stream for a full day of fishing. Bob elected to stay in the general neighborhood of camp while Jeff and I decided to head upstream a couple of miles. Jeff was eager to see virgin water….the section that had been closed to fishing for the past 25 years, despite having been informed that it wasn’t really all that virginal. Seems the locals have been raping it pretty steadily throughout that time…..what’s new? Virgin or not, a mile or so was enough for me and I ducked into the stream as Jeff continued up the trail. In all, I fished two miles or a bit more that day. For the first hour or two I worked the water carefully and caught fish steadily at the rate of one every three or four minutes. By the end of that time it was clear that it was just going to be one of those days. One of those infrequent days when it simply doesn’t matter much what you do. Wishing to see more of the stream and thinking that I might eventually overtake Jeff, I began to move much more quickly and only fished what seemed to me the most appealing spots. I’d like to think that twenty years of experience and hard practice have prepared me to be able to pick the best spots to fish, but the truth is it was just one of those days. The catching pace remained constant throughout the day. I ended up with something like sixty or seventy, based on calculating the time fished and the steady catch rate. The largest were three ten inch rainbows, all unusually fat. The rest ranged from three through eight inches or thereabouts with a fairly even distrubtion…..about normal for most of the waters I’ve fished in NC or back home in Wisconsin and Michigan, for that matter. Surprisingly, all were rainbows and browns, with the rainbows predominating. Not a brookie in the bunch. By late afternoon, having gotten bored with catching fish, bouncing around on wet rocks and taking a couple of bone jarring falls, and knowing that I had about a three mile hike back to camp, I decided it was time to see if I could locate the trail which task, after caroming off several nasty and impenetrable rhodo thickets, I eventually accomplished. Took about forty-five minutes of fast paced downhill hiking to make it back. Arriving back at camp, I found Jeff in the stream there. He had given up some time ago, gone back down the trail and then hiked up to bone valley where he found the meadow we had been told of completely overgrown with trees. Things change. He then came back to the campground where he caught a fat ten inch rainbow (it seems they suddenly put on a great deal of weight on reaching that threshold size) just before I arrived. Although neither Jeff nor Bob had as good a day of catching as I did, we were all agreed that it had been a glorious day. The sun shined all day long and the temperature must have reached about sixty. Where a sunbeam managed to penetrate the canopy and hit a relatively still spot in the stream the bottom shone with a breathtaking clarity. The water, it seemed, was even clearer than the
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Question:
Do you think atheists are more likely than Judeo-Christians to abuse their elderly parents (on account of the fact that they don’t believe in God and therefore are not held to that ridiculous "honor thy father and mother" edict)?
No, I don’t. But I do think that different cultures often develop very different attitudes about animals and about how they should be treated. That’s pretty hard to deny. Cows are sacred in India. Pigs are "unclean" in Moslem and Jewish culture. Dogs are food items in Vietnam. Horses are food items in France. Japanese fishermen deliberately kill large numbers of dolphins. It goes on and on. These practices and attitudes may be consistent and uncontroversial within a culture. Problems arise, however, when different cultures interact. I think that’s what’s happening with the Amish puppy mills. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/
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TWIMC 1. Horse trading with Amish? Want to lose your shirt? . . . only a fool. . . . Thats just a fact and if anyone on this NG would like to test it with their own money, I will personally offer to make comforting cooing sounds when you return without your money and with 3 to 6 new assholes. 2. Yeah, they do have a different attitude toward animals: They are single minded farmers surviving with a minimum of technology in a corporate farming world. They have to pay their taxes like everyone else, and the have lots of kids to help get established. Land costs money. They do what they have to to survive and Im not going to pick at their sores. Earth to ROFF! Earth to ROFF! 3. Associating Amish run puppy mills with Amish people is a stretch? . . . is bigoted? What a crock. Maybe its a stretch if you don’t get around much. Steve is right. Try this one on: Is mentioning the leading involvement of young renegade Amish in several high profile Pennsylvania drug busts . . . bigoted? Or is it just that shit happens? See, young Amish men raise hell. Surprise. Sheesh! 4. What is so hard about understanding that the difference between bigotry and cultural objectivity has a broad band of gray running down the middle. Its not your simple-minded binary geek-friendly, male preferred "either or" call. Scheesh, fucken word weenies! 5. Just as an FYI item: There are some unflattering terms that Amish use for non-Amish. One is "English." What are some or the others? Dave Ideology sucks
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – rw, I would like to see some proof that the Amish mis-treat their animals, do you have any? Raising puppies for sale doesn’t make them bad guys. If you want to point your finger at someone I suggest you look into the racing dog business and some of the filthy puppy mills we have in California. There’s Amish folk in California? :-) Joe F.
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rw, I would like to see some proof that the Amish mis-treat their animals, do you have any? Raising puppies for sale doesn’t make them bad guys. If you want to point your finger at someone I suggest you look into the racing dog business and some of the filthy puppy mills we have in California. Ernie "rw" wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It is different. The reason it’s different is that the Amish religion teaches that animals are to be used for utilitarian purposes only, and not kept as pets. That’s just fine with me. I have no problem with that at all. However, it seems to be having the perverse effect that the Amish have become major players in the puppy mill business, which supplies animals to pet shops. They look at the animals as merely commodities, as just another "crop", even though the final customers buy them as pets. The Amish certainly aren’t the only people in the puppy mill business, but they are major players. I realize that people who don’t care about dogs probably don’t give a shit, but it’s a sore point with me. It’s a very cruel business.
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In standard ROFF form, I’m now being portrayed as "anti-Amish".
Not so fast my evil name-twin Nobody said you’re anti-Amish, did they? Your statements simply appear to present a somewhat stereotypical view of Amish beliefs, IMO. I’m not, of course. I’m anti-puppy-mill. It just happens that for historical and cultural reasons some Amish are very involved in the puppy mill business. That’s an easily verified fact.
It’s easily verified that there are Amish families involved in the puppy mill business. It’s NOT easily verified that they’re in that business because they’re Amish. There’s a HUGE difference between "some Amish people abuse animals" and "some people abuse animals because they’re Amish." It sounds as though you were somehow implying the latter. Do you think atheists are more likely than Judeo-Christians to abuse their elderly parents (on account of the fact that they don’t believe in God and therefore are not held to that ridiculous "honor thy father and mother" edict)? –Steve
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Ken Fortenberry writes: … (I expect Fortenberry to start denouncing me as an antisemite now. … Stop your whining, Barnard. — Ken Fortenberry- can actually spell anti-Semite
<<<splork
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rw, I would like to see some proof that the Amish mis-treat their animals, do you have any? Raising puppies for sale doesn’t make them bad guys. If you want to point your finger at someone I suggest you look into the racing dog business and some of the filthy puppy mills we have in California.
There’s Amish folk in California? :-) Joe F.
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Give him hell if you want, Bob, but beware, you may end up with a picture of Snoop Doggy Dog under your name on the ROFF Faces page. 
Oh, god, I’ve gone too far. Anything but that! I know I should have kept my opinions to myself. Oh, crap. It was really out of character for me to respond in such a manner and, normally, I wouldn’t. But it did strike me that some stereotyping is acceptable and some isn’t. I would never support a puppy mill business no matter who runs it. If the Amish do indeed participate in the puppy mill business, I’m certainly not in favor of it. I’ll bet this and many other topics will be discussed around the "campfire" on the SJ. I’m going to be really, really nice to everyone so as to avoid any "mislabeling". Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–
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Prehaps because they win a lot of races! Paul – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Strange, then perhaps you can explain explain why Amish trained horses always bring a premium price? An Amish lady is trotting down the road in her horse and buggy when she is pulled over by a policeman. "Ma’am, I’m not going to ticket you, but I do have to issue you a warning. You have a broken reflector on your buggy." "Oh, I’ll let my husband, Jacob, know as soon as I get home." "That’s fine. Another thing, ma’am, I don’t like the way than one rein loops across the horse’s back and around one of his testicles. I consider that cruelty to animals. Have your husband take care of that right away!" Later that day, the lady is home telling her husband about her encounter with the cop. "Well, dear, what exactly did he say?" "He said the reflector is broken." "I can fix that in two minutes. What else?" "I’m not sure, Jacob…something about the emergency brake…" Frank (dodging road apples) Church The Amish have many admirable qualities, but the way they treat their animals isn’t one of them, in my opinion. For one thing, they are notorious for running puppy mills. As a dog fancier, I despise that. It’s also common wisdom that you should never even consider buying a horse from an Amish. They treat animals strictly as economic units. Maybe some of you guys in ROFF think that’s OK, but I don’t. It’s fine with me when it comes to chickens and pigs, but I draw the line as dogs and horses. If there are any devout Amish flyfisherman I’m confident in predicting that they don’t practice C&R. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/
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The Amish have many admirable qualities, but the way they treat their animals isn’t one of them, in my opinion. For one thing, they are notorious for running puppy mills. As a dog fancier, I despise that. It’s also common wisdom that you should never even consider buying a horse from an Amish. They treat animals strictly as economic units. Maybe some of you guys in ROFF think that’s OK, but I don’t. It’s fine with me when it comes to chickens and pigs, but I draw the line as dogs and horses. If there are any devout Amish flyfisherman I’m confident in predicting that they don’t practice C&R.
Holy stereotype, Batman! Where the hell are all the PC cops? This isn’t my job but since none of the regular PC cops stepped forward: If someone on this group were to say, "blacks are lazy welfare bums, Mexicans are lazy, Jews are money hungry, Pollocks are dumb, southerners are in-bred hillbillies, asians are shifty, all male flight attendants are flamingly gay, Indians are drunken bums, eastern fly fishers are sissy boys or westerners are room temperature IQ rednecks," the roff PC police would have jumped on them in a flash. But —- I guess this is different. Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–
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As for "puppy mills", ain’t never heard of one being run by the amish. They must be a lower order of amish located in Pennsylvania. (ducking here)
Go into google and search on "amish puppy mills". It’s appalling. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/
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<context snipped Pollocks are dumb, <more snippage eastern fly fishers are sissy boys or westerners are room temperature IQ rednecks,"
You got at least one of these right. Pollocks (those inferior north atlantic cousins of the haddock that they try to sell as "schrod" when the cod are not biting…) are dumb as hell. –Stan (Polack first class)
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Holy stereotype, Batman! Where the hell are all the PC cops? This isn’t my job but since none of the regular PC cops stepped forward: If someone on this group were to say, "blacks are lazy welfare bums, Mexicans are lazy, Jews are money hungry, Pollocks are dumb, southerners are in-bred hillbillies, asians are shifty, all male flight attendants are flamingly gay, Indians are drunken bums, eastern fly fishers are sissy boys or westerners are room temperature IQ rednecks," the roff PC police would have jumped on them in a flash. But —- I guess this is different.
It is different. The reason it’s different is that the Amish religion teaches that animals are to be used for utilitarian purposes only, and not kept as pets. That’s just fine with me. I have no problem with that at all. However, it seems to be having the perverse effect that the Amish have become major players in the puppy mill business, which supplies animals to pet shops. They look at the animals as merely commodities, as just another "crop", even though the final customers buy them as pets. The Amish certainly aren’t the only people in the puppy mill business, but they are major players. I realize that people who don’t care about dogs probably don’t give a shit, but it’s a sore point with me. It’s a very cruel business. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/
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Holy stereotype, Batman! Where the hell are all the PC cops? … But —- I guess this is different.
Exactly. Some here ARE different and have proven themselves to be so thoroughly insufferable and egotistical that it’s not productive to waste any energy admonishing them about their ugly prejudices. Give him hell if you want, Bob, but beware, you may end up with a picture of Snoop Doggy Dog under your name on the ROFF Faces page. — Ken Fortenberry- "Porky Forty"
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It is different. The reason it’s different is that the Amish religion teaches that animals are to be used for utilitarian purposes only, and not kept as pets… [snip] They look at the animals as merely commodities, as just another "crop", even though the final customers buy them as pets.
RW, I found your puppy mills post to be enlightening. I learned something from you and I appreciate that. I’m much less inclined to purchase from a pet store should my kids ever talk me into having a pet. But, despite your explanation, I’m a bit uncomfortable with your Amish stereotype. As an example (and *only* as an illustrative example), try this on… "The Black culture teaches Black men that it’s OK to father children out of wedlock. Women are to be used for utilitarian purposes only and not to be kept as wives. They look at women as merely commodities, just another crop, even though children are born as a result." Sounds pretty bad, doesn’t it? If I were to suggest such a thing on this forum I would be ostracized and rightfully so. I’m not suggesting that you be ostracized, but rather that it’s not *because* they’re Amish that they’re doing something so despicable. –Steve
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: It is different. The reason it’s different is that the Amish religion : teaches that animals are to be used for utilitarian purposes only, and : not kept as pets. Hmm, for starters I don’t believe that, and even if the general gist is true, the two are not mutually exclusive. The Amish are people, just like us, and I cannot believe that many of them don’t get attached to their animals, especially since they interact with, and even depend on, them more than we do. FWIW, I’d much rather see an animal get used than stand in a pen every day or sit in a cramped dog run. I’ll bet you won’t see an Amish horse develop the "bad" habits that indicate psychological imbalance (i.e., pacing, cribbing, pawing, and other repetetive acts). The fact is, there is *way* more abuse by us "recreational" pet owners. : They look at the animals as merely : commodities, as just another "crop", This is simple stereotyping. Yes, I’ve no doubt that there are "bad apples" in the Amish communities, just as there are in ours. People are people. But "they" aren’t any worse than us, and in many ways they might even be better… JonCook. — Are you a r.o.f.f. newbie? Then see http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~jcook/ROFF/
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It is different. The reason it’s different is that the Amish religion teaches that animals are to be used for utilitarian purposes only, and not kept as pets… [snip] They look at the animals as merely commodities, as just another "crop", even though the final customers buy them as pets. RW, I found your puppy mills post to be enlightening. I learned something from you and I appreciate that. I’m much less inclined to purchase from a pet store should my kids ever talk me into having a pet. But, despite your explanation, I’m a bit uncomfortable with your Amish stereotype. As an example (and *only* as an illustrative example), try this on… "The Black culture teaches Black men that it’s OK to father children out of wedlock. Women are to be used for utilitarian purposes only and not to be kept as wives. They look at women as merely commodities, just another crop, even though children are born as a result." Sounds pretty bad, doesn’t it? If I were to suggest such a thing on this forum I would be ostracized and rightfully so. I’m not suggesting that you be ostracized, but rather that it’s not *because* they’re Amish that they’re doing something so despicable.
Many stereotypes have an element of truth to them. For example, in the Middle Ages the Church forbade Christians from charging interest on loans, but Jews were under no such restriction. As a result, many Jews became moneylenders, thereby encurring the resentment of Christians who owed them money. So we get stereotypes like Shakespeare’s Shylock that strike many people as offensive (I think that’s a misreading of The Merchant of Venice), but the stereotype was based on a real cultural practice. (I expect Fortenberry to start denouncing me as an antisemite now. That would be funny.) The Amish puppy mills are similar, I think. According to the Amish religious tradition there’s nothing wrong with them, but dog fanciers don’t see it that way. They see a cruel business. I’d never say that all Amish are cruel to animals, but I do think that Amish religious beliefs allow some of them to do something (run puppy mills) that many people believe is wrong, and to do it with a clear conscience. In other words, they’re acting consistently within their own moral framework, but that framework is at odds with the morals of the larger society that they have to deal with. There are a lot of examples of these sorts of conflict between what different cultures think is moral — female circumcision in Africa, Japanese whaling, capital punishment in America (from a European point of view), etc. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/
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… (I expect Fortenberry to start denouncing me as an antisemite now. …
Stop your whining, Barnard. — Ken Fortenberry- can actually spell anti-Semite
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In standard ROFF form, I’m now being portrayed as "anti-Amish". I’m not, of course. I’m anti-puppy-mill. It just happens that for historical and cultural reasons some Amish are very involved in the puppy mill business. That’s an easily verified fact. It’s kind of like saying that because someone doesn’t like diamonds he must be antisemitic. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/
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The Amish have many admirable qualities, but the way they treat their animals isn’t one of them, in my opinion. For one thing, they are notorious for running puppy mills. As a dog fancier, I despise that. It’s also common wisdom that you should never even consider buying a horse from an Amish. They treat animals strictly as economic units. Maybe some of you guys in ROFF think that’s OK, but I don’t. It’s fine with me when it comes to chickens and pigs, but I draw the line as dogs and horses. If there are any devout Amish flyfisherman I’m confident in predicting that they don’t practice C&R. visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/
Well shit! That’ll be my last Amish joke. I will take issue with you RW, on the matter of how amish folks treat their animals…with the exception of my 20+ yrs military and globe trotting out of Elkhart county, I have lived with these folks as my neighbors for most of my life. They see *any* of their animals as a food source or work unit, even cats are used in the main to keep the rodents out of the grain. Therefore, especially in the case of horses, they are well trained and taken care of…who wants a sickly horse pulling the plow? Of course, they use huge draft horses for the work, and sleek "trotters" for pulling the buggy. 20 miles from my house is a huge auction barn where they hold horse auctions every Friday, and folks come from miles around to trade with these rapscallions. As for "puppy mills", ain’t never heard of one being run by the amish. They must be a lower order of amish located in Pennsylvania. (ducking here) As to flyfishing, I’ve only witnessed one instance of that, and it was so funny I had to stop my own fishing and just watched. This would-be flyflinger (in a small boat) would bring the rod clear back to horizontal, then with great force, bring it forward using a full overhead arm swing, to parallel with the water in front. The resulting splash was something to behold! Our bluegill population was safe from this guy. Frank (where’s my black hat?) Church
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Because they dont see bloody monty roberts and his bad training techniques on the telly 
)
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Strange, then perhaps you can explain explain why Amish trained horses always bring a premium price? An Amish lady is trotting down the road in her horse and buggy when she is pulled over by a policeman. "Ma’am, I’m not going to ticket you, but I do have to issue you a warning. You have a broken reflector on your buggy." "Oh, I’ll let my husband, Jacob, know as soon as I get home." "That’s fine. Another thing, ma’am, I don’t like the way than one rein loops across the horse’s back and around one of his testicles. I consider that cruelty to animals. Have your husband take care of that right away!" Later that day, the lady is home telling her husband about her encounter with the cop. "Well, dear, what exactly did he say?" "He said the reflector is broken." "I can fix that in two minutes. What else?" "I’m not sure, Jacob…something about the emergency brake…" Frank (dodging road apples) Church The Amish have many admirable qualities, but the way they treat their animals isn’t one of them, in my opinion. For one thing, they are notorious for running puppy mills. As a dog fancier, I despise that. It’s also common wisdom that you should never even consider buying a horse from an Amish. They treat animals strictly as economic units. Maybe some of you guys in ROFF think that’s OK, but I don’t. It’s fine with me when it comes to chickens and pigs, but I draw the line as dogs and horses. If there are any devout Amish flyfisherman I’m confident in predicting that they don’t practice C&R. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/
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Strange, then perhaps you can explain explain why Amish trained horses always bring a premium price?
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – An Amish lady is trotting down the road in her horse and buggy when she is pulled over by a policeman. "Ma’am, I’m not going to ticket you, but I do have to issue you a warning. You have a broken reflector on your buggy." "Oh, I’ll let my husband, Jacob, know as soon as I get home." "That’s fine. Another thing, ma’am, I don’t like the way than one rein loops across the horse’s back and around one of his testicles. I consider that cruelty to animals. Have your husband take care of that right away!" Later that day, the lady is home telling her husband about her encounter with the cop. "Well, dear, what exactly did he say?" "He said the reflector is broken." "I can fix that in two minutes. What else?" "I’m not sure, Jacob…something about the emergency brake…" Frank (dodging road apples) Church The Amish have many admirable qualities, but the way they treat their animals isn’t one of them, in my opinion. For one thing, they are notorious for running puppy mills. As a dog fancier, I despise that. It’s also common wisdom that you should never even consider buying a horse from an Amish. They treat animals strictly as economic units. Maybe some of you guys in ROFF think that’s OK, but I don’t. It’s fine with me when it comes to chickens and pigs, but I draw the line as dogs and horses. If there are any devout Amish flyfisherman I’m confident in predicting that they don’t practice C&R. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Amish have many admirable qualities, but the way they treat their animals isn’t one of them, in my opinion. For one thing, they are notorious for running puppy mills. As a dog fancier, I despise that. It’s also common wisdom that you should never even consider buying a horse from an Amish. They treat animals strictly as economic units. Maybe some of you guys in ROFF think that’s OK, but I don’t. It’s fine with me when it comes to chickens and pigs, but I draw the line as dogs and horses. If there are any devout Amish flyfisherman I’m confident in predicting that they don’t practice C&R. Geeze. Way to let the air out of a good joke, steve…
Geez, I thought the C&R thing was at least a little comic relief. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/
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An Amish lady is trotting down the road in her horse and buggy when she is pulled over by a policeman. "Ma’am, I’m not going to ticket you, but I do have to issue you a warning. You have a broken reflector on your buggy." "Oh, I’ll let my husband, Jacob, know as soon as I get home." "That’s fine. Another thing, ma’am, I don’t like the way than one rein loops across the horse’s back and around one of his testicles. I consider that cruelty to animals. Have your husband take care of that right away!" Later that day, the lady is home telling her husband about her encounter with the cop. "Well, dear, what exactly did he say?" "He said the reflector is broken." "I can fix that in two minutes. What else?" "I’m not sure, Jacob…something about the emergency brake…" Frank (dodging road apples) Church
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – An Amish lady is trotting down the road in her horse and buggy when she is pulled over by a policeman. "Ma’am, I’m not going to ticket you, but I do have to issue you a warning. You have a broken reflector on your buggy." "Oh, I’ll let my husband, Jacob, know as soon as I get home." "That’s fine. Another thing, ma’am, I don’t like the way than one rein loops across the horse’s back and around one of his testicles. I consider that cruelty to animals. Have your husband take care of that right away!" Later that day, the lady is home telling her husband about her encounter with the cop. "Well, dear, what exactly did he say?" "He said the reflector is broken." "I can fix that in two minutes. What else?" "I’m not sure, Jacob…something about the emergency brake…" Frank (dodging road apples) Church The Amish have many admirable qualities, but the way they treat their animals isn’t one of them, in my opinion. For one thing, they are notorious for running puppy mills. As a dog fancier, I despise that. It’s also common wisdom that you should never even consider buying a horse from an Amish. They treat animals strictly as economic units. Maybe some of you guys in ROFF think that’s OK, but I don’t. It’s fine with me when it comes to chickens and pigs, but I draw the line as dogs and horses. If there are any devout Amish flyfisherman I’m confident in predicting that they don’t practice C&R.
Geeze. Way to let the air out of a good joke, steve… /daytripper (Get laid or something. Soon. ;^)
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – An Amish lady is trotting down the road in her horse and buggy when she is pulled over by a policeman. "Ma’am, I’m not going to ticket you, but I do have to issue you a warning. You have a broken reflector on your buggy." "Oh, I’ll let my husband, Jacob, know as soon as I get home." "That’s fine. Another thing, ma’am, I don’t like the way than one rein loops across the horse’s back and around one of his testicles. I consider that cruelty to animals. Have your husband take care of that right away!" Later that day, the lady is home telling her husband about her encounter with the cop. "Well, dear, what exactly did he say?" "He said the reflector is broken." "I can fix that in two minutes. What else?" "I’m not sure, Jacob…something about the emergency brake…" Frank (dodging road apples) Church
The Amish have many admirable qualities, but the way they treat their animals isn’t one of them, in my opinion. For one thing, they are notorious for running puppy mills. As a dog fancier, I despise that. It’s also common wisdom that you should never even consider buying a horse from an Amish. They treat animals strictly as economic units. Maybe some of you guys in ROFF think that’s OK, but I don’t. It’s fine with me when it comes to chickens and pigs, but I draw the line as dogs and horses. If there are any devout Amish flyfisherman I’m confident in predicting that they don’t practice C&R. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/
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I just arrived in L.A., and after picking up the rental car, drove by Bob Marriott’s en route to my hotel.! How’s that for addiction??? I’m here for one week (work-related, not fishing), so I thought I’d enter into the spirit of things and wish all you ruffian ROFFians a happy 4th July. — Pete, Brisbane, Australia To reply by email, remove the "SPAMLESS" from the address in the header.
thanks, mate…up the empire! wayno
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Thanks, Pete. On behalf of the yanks on ROFF I’ll extend a welcome to the US – even though LA is (in my opinion) not necessarily representative of the rest of the country. Go east, young man! (at least to the Rockies!) Mark Faulkner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just arrived in L.A., and after picking up the rental car, drove by Bob Marriott’s en route to my hotel.! How’s that for addiction??? I’m here for one week (work-related, not fishing), so I thought I’d enter into the spirit of things and wish all you ruffian ROFFians a happy 4th July. — Pete, Brisbane, Australia To reply by email, remove the "SPAMLESS" from the address in the header.
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Happy 4th to you too. I am planning to trip to your country in November. Any fly fishing that way?
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says… Happy 4th to you too. I am planning to trip to your country in November. Any fly fishing that way?
You betcha! Try Tasmania, home of some huge wild brown trout. I can recommend London Lakes Lodge. http://www.londonlakes.com.au/domino/londonlakes/londonlakes.nsf/html- v/home This is run by Jason and Barbara Garrett – Jason was the captain of the Australia flyfishing team, and is extremely knowledgable. The London Lakes complex is 5000 acres of privately owned and superbly managed fishery. Sight-fishing for huge brownies at its best! Tell them Pete from Brisbane sent you. ) Also, excellent stream and large lake fishing in the Snowy Mountains and the Monaro district on mainland Australia in New South Wales. The world flyfishing championships are being held in the Snowy region this year, particularly on Lake Jindabyne and some of the excellent trout streams high up in the mountains. Depending on the time of year of your visit, closed season is usually June to August, re-opening in September or thereabouts. — Pete, Brisbane, Australia To reply by email, remove the "SPAMLESS" from the address in the header.
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I just arrived in L.A., and after picking up the rental car, drove by Bob Marriott’s en route to my hotel.! How’s that for addiction???
Last time I was in LA for a weeklong vacation, I lept out of bed at 5:30 every morning, didn’t brush my teeth, didn’t bother getting out of my sleeping clothes and immediately hopped into the rental car with my buddy from Boston and drove straight for the ocean. ( Took one day to go fish San Diego and another to ride a party boat with some non-fishing friends). Came back at noon and raided my host’s kitchen, took a shower with my fly lines and then hung them up to dry. I was a groomsman in a wedding party on the last day I was there. We went fishing that morning too. Landlocked Mu
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I just arrived in L.A., and after picking up the rental car, drove by Bob Marriott’s en route to my hotel.! How’s that for addiction??? I’m here for one week (work-related, not fishing), so I thought I’d enter into the spirit of things and wish all you ruffian ROFFians a happy 4th July. — Pete, Brisbane, Australia To reply by email, remove the "SPAMLESS" from the address in the header.
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Question:
: / : | : / : / : / : / : / : / One word and a comment: WOW. Get a hobby. The best tool is your scissors. Open the blades a bit, wrap the finish thread around the open blades once, with the overtop thread away from the fly and slide the loop over the fly eye. Tighten. Repeat. This seldom unravels and takes less than 5 seconds. Try it, you will like it. (Doesn’t everyone do this?) Rick — T. Rick Fletcher – http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry | That’s Idaho, not Iowa. | These University of Idaho | Upper Left Hand Corner. | opinions Moscow, ID 83844-2343 | No, I don’t grow potatoes. | are mine.
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What Rick has described with his scissors is a half hitch not a whip finish. If you use half hitches, use at least three to finish off fly. The whip finish is smoother, cleaner, stronger. Recommend you learn how to do it with your fingers so you can do a whip anywhere on the fly. Another good reason to learn to do a whip without a tool is that your fingers can generally be found on your hands whereas tools sometimes hide on the fly tying desk. If you work construction or some other profession where your fingers are rough and split, then learn how to use the tool. good luck!
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Heh.. Yeah this is one of the "implements Of tourture". / | / / / / / / I have been able to get it to work ( I spent an hour fiddling with it lastnight ). But it is Harder than by hand. Let me know how anyways, Heck I am probably doing it wrong. Thanx For all the Help. Jason Jones.
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It depends on what type it is. There are 2 major types of whip finishers, one is an implement of torture and the other is a Matarelli. The former is made of spring wire and absolutely no one knows how to use it. The Matarelli is a simple bent hook with a swivel handle, and a piece of cake to operate. Let us know which one you have and we’ll take it from there.–Crashjibe
I have a book (somewhere) that shows how to use those whip finishers that look like a dentist’s tool, so at one time, there was someone who knowed how to use it. Mine is a Matarelli and there is none better! A sunny day, a box of midges, and a wandering stream… Man, this MUST be heaven! < Steve Kulpa <<
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Mine is a Matarelli and there is none better!
My question is why use a whip finishing tool? What is the advantage to using one? Don’t you have better control finishing off a fly by hand and doesn’t it take more time to reach for a tool and rig it up than it does to just do it by hand? Jake
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: Heh.. Yeah this is one of the "implements Of tourture". : / : | : / : / : / : / : / : / : I have been able to get it to work ( I spent an hour fiddling with it : lastnight ). But it is Harder than by hand. Let me know how anyways, Heck : I am probably doing it wrong. : Thanx For all the Help. : Jason Jones. Yeah. I bought one like the above and fought with it for days before taking it in to my local flyfishing specialty shop to ask for instructions on just how to make it work. They took me over to the rack a pulled off a "M" which I was able to use first time. Guess when you buy fly fishing/tying gear at a drug store, you get what you deserve. Bryan
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Mine is a Matarelli and there is none better! My question is why use a whip finishing tool? What is the advantage to using one? Don’t you have better control finishing off a fly by hand and doesn’t it take more time to reach for a tool and rig it up than it does to just do it by hand? Jake
I doubt it. I can whip finish a fly in a few seconds with my matarelli, and if I worried about how long it took to reach for tools, I’d give it up. The advantage is getting a nice, NEAT, and tight head. I have an extended one too that is great for whipping over un-trimmed hair, or whipping something in the middle of the fly (e.g. the red floss on a Royal Wulff). But hey, if you prefer to do it by hand, you won’t get any flack from me, to each his own. Steve A sunny day, a box of midges, and a wandering stream… Man, this MUST be heaven! < Steve Kulpa <<
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Heh.. Yeah this is one of the "implements Of tourture". / | / / / / / /
Arrgh….That’s it! (good rendition) I have been able to get it to work ( I spent an hour fiddling with it lastnight ). But it is Harder than by hand. Let me know how anyways, Heck I am probably doing it wrong. Thanx For all the Help. Jason Jones.
I’ll look it up again, I think it came with the instructions on a set of wing burners I bought. Apparently, the company makes both products and puts instructions for both on one sheet, then puts the same sheet in both packages. I hope I didn’t toss it. Steve A sunny day, a box of midges, and a wandering stream… Man, this MUST be heaven! < Steve Kulpa <<
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My question is why use a whip finishing tool? What is the advantage to using one? Don’t you have better control finishing off a fly by hand and doesn’t it take more time to reach for a tool and rig it up than it does to just do it by hand?
Yes, you’re correct. But try that when your fingers have a bunch of dings, snags, gouges, and cracks (from beating the brush all day in search of elusive troots, putting in some more rose bushes for your S.O.’s gardens – or perhaps from just doing your particular 8 to 5 routine) and you’ll appreciate having a whip-finisher handy. There’s nothing worse than trying to whip finish #24 dries by hand with 8/0 tying thread and having it fray from hanging up on a chunk of gouged out callous… If my hands are in good enough shape that rubbing them down with some talc smooths them up, I’ll wrap by hand. Otherwise a quick flip with the whip tool and voila, perfect finish, no swearing! ;^) <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp. Alpha Server Engineering < < "Read this and nobody gets hurt" < <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
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Another factor to consider when dealing with this kind / | / / / / / / of whip finisher is "handednesss". Mine is left-handed. And, you can have my Materelli when you pry it from my cold dead fingers! :^) Charley
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My question is why use a whip finishing tool? What is the advantage to using one? Don’t you have better control finishing off a fly by hand and doesn’t it take more time to reach for a tool and rig it up than it does to just do it by hand? Yes, you’re correct. But try that when your fingers have a bunch of dings, snags, gouges, and cracks (from beating the brush all day in search of elusive troots, putting in some more rose bushes for your S.O.’s gardens …
Never fished for troots before. :*D A sunny day, a box of midges, and a wandering stream… Man, this MUST be heaven! < Steve Kulpa <<
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: : : My question is why use a whip finishing tool? What is the advantage to using : one? Don’t you have better control finishing off a fly by hand and doesn’t : it take more time to reach for a tool and rig it up than it does to just do : it by hand? : : Yes, you’re correct. But try that when your fingers have a bunch of dings, : snags, gouges, and cracks (from beating the brush all day in search of elusive I have the same problem with finger ding snags. Some nights I have trouble just handling the darned bobbin without snaging the thread. Guess I should wear those rubber gloves while I do the dishes. :-))) Yes, hun, I’ll get off the computer and get right on them. And yes I did the vaccuming just like you asked. : troots, putting in some more rose bushes for your S.O.’s gardens … : Never fished for troots before. :*D I hear tell they’re durned good eatin. : : A sunny day, : a box of midges, : and a wandering stream… : Man, this MUST be heaven! : < Steve Kulpa <<
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I had to laugh at the replies to this one. I bought my girlfriend’s son the little kit in Cabela’s that comes in the wood box. It had the "implement of torture" in it. Then for fun I went into a friend’s fly shop and pulled one off his wall and told I wanted to see how it worked. We had to laugh after about 20 minutes of trying. We still don’t know how the thing works. For me, using the Materelli instead of my fingers is a very satisfing way to finish a fly. To each his own… Ross Wilson
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Hi All. Have a Little tying question here… I have an old whipfinish tool in my flytying box and dont know how to use it. I know how to whip finish without it, and have for 6 years, but would like to give this whole tool thing a try. I bought the tool in a FlyShop Close-Out and it didnt have instructions. If you could E-mail me or post some directions OR send me in the right direction, I would appreciate the help. Thanx, and happy Tying.
Yikes! Anyone who can successfully describe, via email, how to use a whipfinish tool to whip finish a fly, with only written description and ASCII pictures, is going to be a Big Hero! (And should probably be guaranteed a job somewhere as a technical writer!) If anyone is brave enough to attempt an ASCII description, please let us know what font and size is used to construct the picture! Maybe we should turn this into a contest – it could be *very* interesting! Tim
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It depends on what type it is. There are 2 major types of whip finishers, one is an implement of torture and the other is a Matarelli. The former is made of spring wire and absolutely no one knows how to use it. The Matarelli is a simple bent hook with a swivel handle, and a piece of cake to operate. Let us know which one you have and we’ll take it from there.–Crashjibe
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Hi All. Have a Little tying question here… I have an old whipfinish tool in my flytying box and dont know how to use it. I know how to whip finish without it, and have for 6 years, but would like to give this whole tool thing a try. I bought the tool in a FlyShop Close-Out and it didnt have instructions. If you could E-mail me or post some directions OR send me in the right direction, I would appreciate the help. Thanx, and happy Tying. Jason Jones. aka Marin-1 — |___| | | O |_] ||||| o Stop by my WWW HomePage at http://cello.qnet.com/~marin2
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