Question:

I’m probably breaking some copywright law, but from the Lewiston ID Tribune but.. George Eugene (Billis) Gehrke, an avid fly fisherman, inventor and writer, passed away Sunday Dec. 8, 2002, at his Asotin home. He was 68. He was born July 28, 1934, in Toledo, Ohio. Graduating from Anthony Wayne High School in 1954, he was the first in his class to go directly into the Air Force Cadet Program. After his tour with the Air Force, he married the love of his life, Gladys Gray, Sept. 6, 1958, in Toledo. He often told others how lucky he was to have her in his life and how much he loved her. George owned a fly fishing company and manufactured its products since 1973. He is survived by his wife, Gladys, at the Asotin home; three sons, Robert of Panama City, Fla., Stuart of Trout Creek, Colo., and Gregory of Asotin; three daughters, Rosemary Tafoya of Asotin, Tracy Castaneda of Houston and Georgia Gehrke of Kapaa, Hawaii. He is also survived by a sister, Karol Ann of Archie, Mo.; brothers, Ernest Gehrke and John Billis of Ohio; uncle C.M. Kurczak of Baton Rouge, La.; several nieces and nephews; 11 grandchildren; and many, many friends. A memorial service will be held at 1 p.m. Thursday at the family home at Asotin. Vassar-Rawls Funeral Home of Lewiston is in charge of arrangements.

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Thanks Wayne, for passing that along. Rest in Peace, George. bruce h

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Question:

Today I took the day off work and decided to head out to Loch Lomond in Santa Cruz California to get in some flyfishing. Loch Lomond is a beautiful lake for being so close to an urban center. It’s a reservoir in a mountain valley… and if you squint just a little and ignore all of the picnic tables and hiking paths, you would swear you’re at a lake in the high sierra. It has resident populations of bass, catfish, panfish, and is planted in the spring with rainbows.  Of course, the trout is my fish of choice. Since the lake doesn’t allow wading or float tubes, your only choice is to bring or rent a boat if you want to flyfish… renting is cheap, and they rent only rowboats, so I get a free workout thrown in. I didn’t get on the lake until 11am (had to drop my daughter off at school, etc), so I did get a late start.  Thanks to the fog, though, conditions were cool and the fish were still near the surface.  One after one, I try all the dries in my flybox.. but they’re not hitting. Strange, because they are ocassionally rising (though not very often)… to what?  That’s the big question, and one I still don’t know the answer to.  Maybe there are emergers, but I can’t see any. I also try nymphing a little bit… but no luck there either. Of course, I notice the trollers and the bait dunkers at the shore aren’t having any better luck.  A couple people had good luck earlier, before I arrived, but nobody is catching. Anyway, it was a GREAT day, even if I didn’t catch a damn thing.  I was off the water by 2pm, just when the fog burned off and the air started to heat up a little.  I WILL go back soon, it was great! Now, here’s the request for knowledge section of this post: HOW does one fish nymphs in a lake?  I’ve fished dries in high sierra lakes, and dries and nymphs in rivers, but never nymphs in lakes.  Do they need movement?  The current is moving a little in the lake.  Any advise you can give me? Also, what do you think they were rising for?  Yea, I know you weren’t there, but if you had to guess…. Thanks for the help…

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HOW does one fish nymphs in a lake?  

Buy and read Gary LaFontaine’s Fishing the High Mountain Lakes. You might try dangling a small brassie (chironomid imitation) below an indicator, especially if there’s a little ripple on the surface. Works for me. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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<SNIP Also, what do you think they were rising for?  Yea, I know you weren’t there, but if you had to guess….

Chironomids. ( Midge pupa). Have a look here; http://www.bcadventure.com/adventure/angling/protalk/chan/confession…. The rest of the site is worth a good look as well. TL MC

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Try this one as well; http://www.fishbc.com/adventure/angling/flies/chironomid/pupa.phtml TL MC

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Thanks! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – HOW does one fish nymphs in a lake? Buy and read Gary LaFontaine’s Fishing the High Mountain Lakes. You might try dangling a small brassie (chironomid imitation) below an indicator, especially if there’s a little ripple on the surface. Works for me. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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Thanks and thanks! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Have a look here; http://www.bcadventure.com/adventure/angling/protalk/chan/confession…. The rest of the site is worth a good look as well. TL MC

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 Chironomids, all various colors coming off lakes or any other hatch you can identify are difficult to fish on lakes.  The trout are many times large and they are cruisers.  The difficulty in fishing for cruising trout feeding on emerging Chironomids is timing.  Timing is everything. Pick a fish out that you see break the surface one, two, cast, three!  The fish are taking Chironomids just under the surface, not on top of it.  They cruise about a foot or two under looking up.  They come up and take the food in an arch, their backs breaking the water.  This means you may have to try dangling about six to eight inches of tippet "under the water" and float the rest of the tippet and leader on top.  Lead the fish, and then twitch about an inch or two.  Dress the first few inches of leader with Xink and that includes the nymph or Chironomid pattern of your choice.  Float the rest of your leader and fly line. "The Take," is one of perpetual motion and a cruiser will hook themselves for obvious reasons.  The initial response is one of surprise.  Make sure you lower your rod tip level and sideways to the first run because it will be a duzzie! Hope this helps.  You WILL catch fish. George Gehrke "Chironomids are Cillers"

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Question:

I picked up 3 sets of different color at the Maryland Fair this last weekend (tough getting my shopping done while proposing to Cathy Beck).  Tom, try dubbing the body with your favorite bug color.  I have sulphurs, grey foxes, BWOs, tan caddis, black caddis, green caddis all just by messing with the wing color and body dubbing.  Lets see, 3 bucks for 2 feet makes about 150 flies vs the cost of grade A hackle for the same amount of flies. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  I’m planning on buying a big bag-o-feet at Somerset next weekend. –Stan

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Stan writes: The ‘good’ tiers ended up with very tight smooth bodies on their flies, mine are sparse and ratty,

and yours would resemble the original, as I have seen it. If the thread doesn’t show through the translucent, somewhat coarse snowshoe fur, the effect is different. Not wrong, per se, but different. The body should be on the thick side, but this is a "ratty" looking fly. I love snowshoe hare feet.

For duns, and caddis, you cannot beat the stuff for a low floating durable tie. With a few handling tricks, small duns and midges and such are easily done as well.                             Tom L

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Frank writes: , try dubbing the body with your favorite bug color

you’re right, Frank. Just ask Willi, I’ve been doing this for years. The Usual was selected for the swap to bring the swappers, and myself, back to where the ideas originated. I had a snowshoe BWO in a swap two or three years back, and a caddis in a Compuserve swap waaaay back(my first encounter with Harry Mason). tough getting my shopping done while proposing to Cathy Beck

Interesting tie-in, she and her hubby nearly exhausted the supply of Fred Reese’s dun dyed snowshoe feet a few years back. Luckily, I had beaten them by a few days and got my half dozen feet in time. Fred was blown away by the sudden popularity of the stuff( this was 1993 or so,as I remember). Just did a rough count of current supplies before the annual order, still have 22 feet in various natural, dyed dun,green, olive, rust and assorted tans and ambers.                               Tom L

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I’ve never used a dyed (vs dead) hare’s foot.  How are they and where can I get them and why do you need seven and a third yards (22 feet) of fur? — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just did a rough count of current supplies before the annual order, still have 22 feet in various natural, dyed dun,green, olive, rust and assorted tans and ambers.                               Tom L

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Frank writes: , try dubbing the body with your favorite bug color you’re right, Frank. Just ask Willi, I’ve been doing this for years. The Usual was selected for the swap to bring the swappers, and myself, back to where the ideas originated. I had a snowshoe BWO in a swap two or three years back, and a caddis in a Compuserve swap waaaay back(my first encounter with Harry Mason).

The use of Snowshoe Hare is much more of an Eastern thing. It’s uncommon to find any flies that use it in a shop in the Rockies. It’s a versatile material. I also did a Snowshoe pattern for the swap, a quill bodied emerger pattern. Willi

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. God! I love this fly!!                              Tom L

and they are great fish-catchers too! Eugene K.

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 still have 22 feet in various natural, dyed dun,green, olive, rust and assorted tans and ambers.                              Tom L

do you guys think the wing colour as important as the body colour?…I often use different bodies with the same wing, and really I only use light feet and dark feet.   Eugene K.

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(snips) The ‘good’ tiers ended up with very tight smooth bodies on their flies, mine are sparse and ratty, the other two guys couldn’t get the fur to dub at all and used beaver dubbing. For demonstration purposes, I put one of mine in a glass of water, dunking it to make sure it was through the surface tension, and it was still floating like a cork 4 hours later.  I love snowshoe hare feet.  I’m planning on buying a big bag-o-feet at Somerset next weekend.

Not that I’m planning on tying, but what other materials will float easily and well?  I’d think that poodle hair, as they were once cold water retrievers, would be pretty good. — rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless remove invalid or hit reply to email. Though I’m very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

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Frank,   Dyed dun is pretty easy to find from many of the larger material houses. The other colors are less frequent. I buy them from Fred Reese’s Trout Shop, in PA., who has specialized in them for a while. You ask: why do you need seven and a third yards (22 feet) of fur?

for the same reason I have a cedar chest full of rooster pelts…just like having them around. Seriously, though, most of the feet on hand have been chopped through a bit, maybe 5 or 6 are completely intact.                              Tom L

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tough getting my shopping done while proposing to Cathy Beck Interesting tie-in, she and her hubby nearly exhausted the supply of Fred Reese’s dun dyed snowshoe feet a few years back. Luckily, I had beaten them by a few days and got my half dozen feet in time.

Ok, so I finally get the opportunity to swing by Fred Reese’s place to pick up some spade hackle…. the stuff you were waving in front of me at the clave last year. A large bag for just $5.00 you say.  Well, we picked through his stock and could only find two pieces suitable for tailing sulphurs.  You exhausted his supply of spade hackle.  :-( Dave

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Dave,   The source I cited for spade hackle is Collins Hackle Farm in NY. Charlie Collins is listed at the back advertising section of most major fly tying/fishing mags. Also, he can be spotted in person at the upcoming Somerset show. I wasn’t even aware of Reese’s selling the stuff…but, it is always fun to poke around their supply, isn’t it?                               Tom L

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Someday I’d like to learn to tie perfect dry flies like your’s Tom. Awesome. bruce h

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you guys embarrass me….thanks for all the kind words. Can’t wait to hear the response to these Usuals I am tying for the swap! This is one of those flys, at least for me, that is tyed wrong if it looks organized at all. I am gazing at a butter tub that looks like a small rodent exploded in a pile of hooks(contains 50 flies). God! I love this fly!!                               Tom L

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Someday I’d like to learn to tie perfect dry flies like your’s Tom. Awesome.

Well, those little midge thingies are perfect too Bruce.  As far as we can tell!  heh heh

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Tom: We tied Usuals at my tying club this week – two really excellent tiers, me (intermediate at best) and another two guys who range from beginner to intermediate depending on material.  It’s interesting to see how 5 people in the same room tying the same pattern will come up with vastly different flies.  A lot of depends on skill, some on expectation of what a fly should look like.   The ‘good’ tiers ended up with very tight smooth bodies on their flies, mine are sparse and ratty, the other two guys couldn’t get the fur to dub at all and used beaver dubbing. For demonstration purposes, I put one of mine in a glass of water, dunking it to make sure it was through the surface tension, and it was still floating like a cork 4 hours later.  I love snowshoe hare feet.  I’m planning on buying a big bag-o-feet at Somerset next weekend. I’m really looking forward to seeing the other three examples in this swap. –Stan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – you guys embarrass me….thanks for all the kind words. Can’t wait to hear the response to these Usuals I am tying for the swap! This is one of those flys, at least for me, that is tyed wrong if it looks organized at all. I am gazing at a butter tub that looks like a small rodent exploded in a pile of hooks(contains 50 flies). God! I love this fly!!                               Tom L

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Tom: I can send you the html and images in a zip any time you want it.  Feel free to give out the url in the meantime to clavesters. See you at Penns!  Jim Lafley is coming again too (even though he said something last night about 4 days…).  If anybody else from Mass. wants to carpool get in touch by email. –Stan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Stan,   Bless you! AOL’s server is constantly screwed up, making getting to my site unreliable(watta surprise,eh?). If you can hang onto the layout for me, I would appreciate it, as it is a more efficient size, it seems, should I want to add stuff to my site.                               Tom L

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Does anyone have links to the best flies for Penns in May and how to tie them?  This will give these folks a good start.    Frank Reid

Here’s the URL for Flyfisher’s Paradise, a shop between Bellefonte and State College:    http://www.flyfishersparadise.com/ They provide hatch info ever week during the season.  Click on "Streams" at the bottom of the site; then click on the stream you want to know about. Click on "Articles" for patterns and tying instructions. vince norris

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone have links to the best flies for Penns in May and how to tie them?  This will give these folks a good start. Well, IMO… I plunked down a whole bunch o’ cash on flies at the Feathered Hook. Seemed like just about every fly in there was a "gotta have it" fly. But I can say this… I caught nearly all my fish on six patterns (four dries, two nymphs), listed in order of effectiveness: (1) sulphur or other yellow fly (2) "Cripple" spidery-looking something (3) Elk Hair Caddis (4) March Brown (1) pheasant tail nymph (2) stonefly nymph (3) Colornel Sander’s Corn Kernal –Steve

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Be careful,  if the climate is different, so will be the flies….sometimes very significantly.  Not so much with the nymphs of course, but the surface hatches. I’ve found that the Penn’s trout tend to be taking the newer arrivals.  So try to ask around, and find out what has been coming off, listening for what has just started,  when I see the 7 or 8 different species on the water, in varying sizes,  I’ll try that first.  The bug that is new the Clave week in May is usually the sulphur (in one size or another), but could also be March Brown Spinners,  Sulphur Spinners, Tan Caddis, Chocolate Caddis, Green Caddis, Grey Fox (duns or spinners), and some years the Light Cahill and Green Drake (but this is remote). If all else fails, remember the electric shocking equipment, The Finn

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone have links to the best flies for Penns in May and how to tie them?  This will give these folks a good start. Well, IMO… I plunked down a whole bunch o’ cash on flies at the Feathered Hook. Seemed like just about every fly in there was a "gotta have it" fly. But I can say this… I caught nearly all my fish on six patterns (four dries, two nymphs), listed in order of effectiveness: (1) sulphur or other yellow fly Same here – should have multiple styles! (including emerger)  So when Tom and DavePA etc. chime in with their favorite pattern, don’t pick one, pick ‘em all (1) pheasant tail nymph Works as a sulphur nymph

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Okie dokey folks.  I have a couple of folks here that will be attending Penns that have never been there before.  They are interested in tying flies for the clave fishing.  I couldn’t find the link to the message from last year indicating which flies are best.  I did find the link to the feathered hook, but, as usual, not enough info. Does anyone have links to the best flies for Penns in May and how to tie them?  This will give these folks a good start.     Frank Reid

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Tom Littleton posted some on his web site last year (which I filched for my reference – hope you don’t mind Tom…). You can find copies of Tom’s photos at http://members.bellatlantic.net/~sgula/penns/

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Okie dokey folks.  I have a couple of folks here that will be attending Penns that have never been there before.  They are interested in tying flies for the clave fishing.  I couldn’t find the link to the message from last year indicating which flies are best.  I did find the link to the feathered hook, but, as usual, not enough info. Does anyone have links to the best flies for Penns in May and how to tie them?  This will give these folks a good start.     Frank Reid

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Does anyone have links to the best flies for Penns in May and how to tie them?  This will give these folks a good start.

Well, IMO… I plunked down a whole bunch o’ cash on flies at the Feathered Hook. Seemed like just about every fly in there was a "gotta have it" fly. But I can say this… I caught nearly all my fish on six patterns (four dries, two nymphs), listed in order of effectiveness: (1) sulphur or other yellow fly (2) "Cripple" spidery-looking something (3) Elk Hair Caddis (4) March Brown (1) pheasant tail nymph (2) stonefly nymph Since the magical hatch portion the day–the time when the fish are supposedly keyed into an exact pattern, size, and hook stye–lasts a grand total of about half an hour, the rest of the time you’re just searching. And another tidbit from someone who doesn’t know what he’s talking about but has an opinion nonetheless… During the daytime, you’ll have the most success if you can switch easily from nymphs to dries and back. I saw very few risers during the daytime, but when I *did* see them (mostly taking stuff from the foam line in eddies it seemed) they were very fun to target and catch. –Steve

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Tom Littleton posted some on his web site last year (which I filched for my reference – hope you don’t mind Tom…). You can find copies of Tom’s photos at http://members.bellatlantic.net/~sgula/penns/

I remember now seeing this page last year and thinking "God, what beautifully tied flies."  Advancing decrepitude or some damn thing prevented me from bookmarking it then.  Thanks for the link.  They’re still beautiful. JR

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Does anyone have links to the best flies for Penns in May and how to tie them?  This will give these folks a good start. Well, IMO… I plunked down a whole bunch o’ cash on flies at the Feathered Hook. Seemed like just about every fly in there was a "gotta have it" fly. But I can say this… I caught nearly all my fish on six patterns (four dries, two nymphs), listed in order of effectiveness: (1) sulphur or other yellow fly

Same here – should have multiple styles! (including emerger)  So when Tom and DavePA etc. chime in with their favorite pattern, don’t pick one, pick ‘em all (1) pheasant tail nymph

Works as a sulphur nymph

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Stan,   Bless you! AOL’s server is constantly screwed up, making getting to my site unreliable(watta surprise,eh?). If you can hang onto the layout for me, I would appreciate it, as it is a more efficient size, it seems, should I want to add stuff to my site.                               Tom L

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Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Flypaint writes: I thought near the ends of the canoe were more stable for tying off and hauling up the anchor. -Patrick They probably are ,because your’e pulling your anchor line along a stable central axis point.I personally don’t prefer to do it that way because I don’t like to have to lean back every time I want to raise or lower the anchor.We’re talking about anchoring on slow lazy rivers or lakes,not on raging rapids.Their would have to be one hell of a wind kicking up to put me under just because I tied off on the center support.I also find it gives me better boat positioning.Anyway,my main reason in responding to the post was to share a tip about using the plastic barbell.You can tie your anchor anywhere you want as far as I’m concerned.I don’t recommend tying it to your ankle however. Tight Lines,Shawn

:All the canoes that I have used on rivers have had a pulley mechanism connected to the bow of the canoe with the rope running through a channel in the mechanism with a hammer-like piece coming down to hold it fast while at anchor.  The rope can be reached by any seat in the canoe.   Ken Fortenberry writes about using an onion bag with rocks — excellent idea and one used by Maine Guides.  When hiking into a remote pond, all they have to haul is the onion bag and a piece of rope — the rocks to fill the bag are already there!  Actually, it ain’t an onion bag but a bag designed for scuba divers.  You can find them in most dive shops. Achoring a canoe from the side in any kind of current can be unstable and could cause a turn-over.  But, of course, that’s JMHO. Dave LaCourse: These anchor control pulleys are great, but the single point of control often results in the stern being swung back and forth by the current or the wind.   We use the motor at the square stern of the canoe to act as a rudder.  When we are in rocky rivers (and hence no motor), I just use plastic bar bells and a small piece of chain, like one other poster mentioned, and drop a line off the stern.  The stern anchor doesn’t have to be very heavy, but the line has to be tight to dampen the pendulum effect.  I just tie it off the back; no anchor control necessary. JB

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I thought near the ends of the canoe were more stable for tying off and hauling up the anchor. -Patrick

They probably are ,because your’e pulling your anchor line along a stable central axis point.I personally don’t prefer to do it that way because I don’t like to have to lean back every time I want to raise or lower the anchor.We’re talking about anchoring on slow lazy rivers or lakes,not on raging rapids.Their would have to be one hell of a wind kicking up to put me under just because I tied off on the center support.I also find it gives me better boat positioning.Anyway,my main reason in responding to the post was to share a tip about using the plastic barbell.You can tie your anchor anywhere you want as far as I’m concerned.I don’t recommend tying it to your ankle however. Tight Lines,Shawn

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Flypaint writes: I thought near the ends of the canoe were more stable for tying off and hauling up the anchor. -Patrick They probably are ,because your’e pulling your anchor line along a stable central axis point.I personally don’t prefer to do it that way because I don’t like to have to lean back every time I want to raise or lower the anchor.We’re talking about anchoring on slow lazy rivers or lakes,not on raging rapids.Their would have to be one hell of a wind kicking up to put me under just because I tied off on the center support.I also find it gives me better boat positioning.Anyway,my main reason in responding to the post was to share a tip about using the plastic barbell.You can tie your anchor anywhere you want as far as I’m concerned.I don’t recommend tying it to your ankle however. Tight Lines,Shawn

All the canoes that I have used on rivers have had a pulley mechanism connected to the bow of the canoe with the rope running through a channel in the mechanism with a hammer-like piece coming down to hold it fast while at anchor.  The rope can be reached by any seat in the canoe.   Ken Fortenberry writes about using an onion bag with rocks — excellent idea and one used by Maine Guides.  When hiking into a remote pond, all they have to haul is the onion bag and a piece of rope — the rocks to fill the bag are already there!  Actually, it ain’t an onion bag but a bag designed for scuba divers.  You can find them in most dive shops. Achoring a canoe from the side in any kind of current can be unstable and could cause a turn-over.  But, of course, that’s JMHO. Dave LaCourse

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How do you anchor a canoe for flyfishing when there’s a breeze that keeps moving you off your spot? Thanks!

Well…if you’re not portaging …grab a large coffee can..fill it with cement/concrete…stick in a large eye bolt.  The can will pick up far less muck when in a weedy/muddy bottomed pond/bog/lake. $.02, steve d.

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: All the canoes that I have used on rivers have had a pulley mechanism connected : to the bow of the canoe with the rope running through a channel in the : mechanism with a hammer-like piece coming down to hold it fast while at anchor. :  The rope can be reached by any seat in the canoe.   : Ken Fortenberry writes about using an onion bag with rocks — excellent idea : and one used by Maine Guides.  When hiking into a remote pond, all they have to : haul is the onion bag and a piece of rope — the rocks to fill the bag are : already there!  Actually, it ain’t an onion bag but a bag designed for scuba : divers.  You can find them in most dive shops. : Achoring a canoe from the side in any kind of current can be unstable and could : cause a turn-over.  But, of course, that’s JMHO. : Dave LaCourse Hi; As a Illinois EPA volunteer, we go out often. We’ve been out in days when we have waves coming over the sides of our kayak. We use a two seater and one person handles the anchor (which we just drop over the side) and writes the results and the other (me) lowers the secchi disk and leans over the opposite side (from anchor) of the kayak to take measurments. We do end up going back to work sometimes smelling kind bad, but we have yet to tip… — John Nelson                       Chicago Area Paddling/Fishing Page        http://www.chicagopaddling.org   http://www.chicagofishing.org  (A Non-Commercial Web Site: No Sponsors, No Paid Ads and Nothing to Sell)

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How do you anchor a canoe for flyfishing when there’s a breeze that keeps moving you off your spot? Thanks!

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How do you anchor a canoe for flyfishing when there’s a breeze that keeps moving you off your spot? Thanks!

I use an onion sack full of rocks. — Ken Fortenberry

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How do you anchor a canoe for flyfishing when there’s a breeze that keeps moving you off your spot? Thanks! I use an onion sack full of rocks. — Ken Fortenberry

Scott, he’s also been known to use his fishing partner. Peter (promising never to call it an "aluminum monstrosity" again)

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I tie a 5 pound maul (sledge hammer) off the back.  Easy to lift and adjust. Opie  **Panhandling for a better tomorrow!**

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How do you anchor a canoe for flyfishing when there’s a breeze that keeps moving you off your spot? Thanks! I use an onion sack full of rocks. — Ken Fortenberry

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Ken,    The holes in the onion sack are too big to put corn in. Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How do you anchor a canoe for flyfishing when there’s a breeze that keeps moving you off your spot? Thanks! I use an onion sack full of rocks. — Ken Fortenberry

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How do you anchor a canoe for flyfishing when there’s a breeze that keeps moving you off your spot? Thanks!

Scott, FLOAT TUBE ANCHOR SYSTEM: www.woodrivercompany.com/accessor.htm I have one of these for my float tube and I use with the canoe also…I really like it and I don’t have to haul those muddy rocks that dirty and scratch up my precious and prestine Old Town canoe (that looks like it was dropped by UPS…..Cargo Jet, that is). Padishar Creel

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How do you anchor a canoe for flyfishing when there’s a breeze that keeps moving you off your spot? Thanks!

I use a 1 gal detergent jug filled with sand. You might want two, for when you want to keep the craft sideways to the wind. Pops **** Armed and Safe(tm) **** "By US Code Title 47, Sec.227(a)(2)(B), a computer/modem/printer meets the definition of a telephone fax machine. By Sec.227(b)(1)(C), it is unlawful to send any unsolicited advertisement to such equipment.   By Sec.227(b)(3)(C), a violation of the aforementioned Section is punishable by action to recover actual monetary loss, or $500, whichever is greater, for each violation."

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: How do you anchor a canoe for flyfishing when there’s a breeze that keeps : moving you off your spot? Thanks! I have a <ducking head JetSki anchor that I bought from Overton’s.  It’s small, comes with it’s own storage bag and has a little float on the end just incase you lose the rope.  It also has a clip so I just loop it over a thwart and clip it on. P.S. I do not own a jetski — John Nelson                       Chicago Area Paddling/Fishing Page        http://www.chicagopaddling.org   http://www.chicagofishing.org  (A Non-Commercial Web Site: No Sponsors, No Paid Ads and Nothing to Sell)

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How do you anchor a canoe for flyfishing

Hey Scott, I like to use a plastic barbell weight,about eight pounds.I tie a rope through the center and tie the end to the center support bar in mycanoe.The good thing about the barbell weight is because it.s round it’s not likely to hang up on anything.If your anchor hangs up even the least little bit you will have trouble freeing it without flipping your canoe.When pulling your anchor up you want to pull the rope over the side from the center while seated in a stable position.If you lean over the side to haul the anchor you will soon find yourself and all your equipment in the water. Good Luck,Shawn

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I use an onion sack full of rocks.

Yeah, but what yuppie boy isn’t telling you is that those rocks were individually swallowed and pooped out by a rare strain of African wildebeast. Helps ‘em sink faster apparently. –Steve (don’t worry Ken, I’ll get one with a large fridge)

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Scott,   I also like the rock in an onion sack solution, it doesn’t take up much space when not in use so I usually have it with the canoe.   However, I would not tie it to one of the center thwarts.  If there is a current, or a strong wind, this can tip a canoe over.  Also it it easier to tip a canoe when raising the anchor.  It is better to tie to the end of the canoe, I have a carry handle at the bow and stern of my 18′ Wenonah.  It is inconvenient to raise and lower if I am by myself, but I have had a sudden breeze come up and have been happier. Joe – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How do you anchor a canoe for flyfishing when there’s a breeze that keeps moving you off your spot? Thanks!

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Reminds me of my first scuba diving buddy (a college roommate). He insisted that he always carried a scuba knife and dove with a partner for safety reasons. That way, if he saw a shark, he could stab his buddy and swim for shore.

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 i use old window sash weights.  lead bars about 10 inches long with hole already in the end for your cord.  rig pulley off front and you can hold canoe in place during ‘gentle’ winds. fishworship – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How do you anchor a canoe for flyfishing when there’s a breeze that keeps moving you off your spot? Thanks!

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<snip When pulling your anchor up you want to pull the rope over the side from the center while seated in a stable position. <snip I thought near the ends of the canoe were more stable for tying off and hauling up the anchor. -Patrick

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Question:

(snipped Wolfgang’s set-up ;^) LOL.   I think you’ve filled in the blanks nicely, but I have to make at least one post with the word "meniscus" in it.   There.

Heck – ya beat me to it, Joe! /daytripper

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You forgot Fuhrer baiting Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip Why, in addition to your hiking, hunting, and shooting, we have experts here on canoeing, politics, environment, beer, single-malt Scotch, kayaking, cooking, poetry, rod building, goats…..<snip …..scientific terminology, anti-retro-post-deconstuctionist theory (as applied to all of the above, and below), the true path to enlightenment, hydrophobia, hydrology, hydrangeas, metallurgy, dramaturgy, ballistics, statistics, logistics, political economy, autonomy, Deuteronomy, Exodus, calculus, elastic modulus, pathos, bathos, Athos, Porthos, ethics, literary criticism, philology, philosophy, phylogeny, philandering, filigree, fillets, philodendrons, fillips, Philippinos, fistulas, fissures, fishers, martens, minks, Gink, Xink, (and the kitchen sink!) and a few other things that I can’t even spell!

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And I thought I was one of the few to graduate at 32!

32?  I didn’t think it was possible to get out that young!  I was 38 myself, and I only got out that soon by rummaging through the catalogue long enough to find a major to which I could apply some of the hundreds of eclectic credits I accumulated over a checkered 13 year college career!

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LOL.   I think you’ve filled in the blanks nicely, but I have to make at least one post with the word "meniscus" in it.   There.

I would have bet a thousand dollars that we could not get through this thread without THAT word showing up, but I don’t suppose I’d have gotten anyone to take the bet.  Thanks for the salt Joe, I am rubbing it in to the wound even as I type!

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And I thought I was one of the few to graduate at 32! 32?  I didn’t think it was possible to get out that young!  I was 38 myself, and I only got out that soon by rummaging through the catalogue long enough to find a major to which I could apply some of the hundreds of eclectic credits I accumulated over a checkered 13 year college career!

Alright, we’re not competitive on ROFF at all, are we?  Let’s see who can top first undergrad degree at 47. Peter

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Alright, we’re not competitive on ROFF at all, are we?  Let’s see who can top first undergrad degree at 47. Athletic scholarship? — Charlie…

 Combined engineering and kinesiology degree – thesis "Stress analysis of lightweight aluminium alloy struts for supporting over-developed, middle aged, male beer bellies."  Study group was required to consume a case of lager a day for two months while wearing the struts. Naturally, as part of any good participant-observer methodology, I included myself in the study. Peter

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Waldo: <<don’t forget us "rhododendron" experts in the blue ridge…. mountain laurel hell! AKA Fortenberry’s Flowers!  d;0) Where da hell is my rod/reel case?  Must I employ Wayno to get it?  <G Dave LaCourse

    can’t get blood out of a turnip, david! wayno

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Combined engineering and kinesiology degree – thesis "Stress analysis of lightweight aluminium alloy struts for supporting over-developed, middle aged, male beer bellies."  Study group was required to consume a case of lager a day for two months while wearing the struts. Naturally, as part of any good participant-observer methodology, I included myself in the study.

No doubt this also spawned a paper on the corrosive effects of urine on structural aluminum alloys. Joe F. BS at 33 (a mere babe) MBA at 45 (getting there)

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Study group was required to consume a case of lager a day for two months while wearing the struts. Naturally, as part of any good participant-observer methodology, I included myself in the study.

Hm….well, there’s lager and then there’s lager.  The major American, Canadian, Australian, and Japanese brewers put out products modeled (very loosely) on the classic Pilsner style which is a lager.  On the other end of the spectrum you have the equally classic, though much more robust, doppelbocks.  While I’m sure that some valuable preliminary data could be obtained from the study of the effects of any of these, or many others, I suspect that a great deal more work needs to be done.  Let me be the first to volunteer my services for follow-up studies assuming, of course, that I will not be subjected to the aforementioned toxic swill produced by the majors; put it back in the horse!

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that I will not be subjected to the aforementioned toxic swill produced by the majors; put it back in the horse!

Actually….[from Robertson's] Budweiser rates a 63 for the style, Coors 65, Michelob 74.  Pilsner Urquell a 79 (they must have slacked off, this should be at 100 since it is the original heretic Pilsner Lager that should be the standard for this style).  The US lagers are actually excellent *for the style*, which is exceedingly difficult to duplicate by the home brewer.  Are these numbers accurate ? Well…they show Zima at 13.  That’s a pretty good control. Your pal, — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

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Actually….[from Robertson's] Budweiser rates a 63 for the style, … The US lagers are actually excellent *for the style*, which is exceedingly difficult to duplicate by the home brewer. …

Damn right. Whenever one of the beer snobs around here starts in with the gagging and pinching the nose routine at the the mention of Budweiser, which has a taste, a smoothness and a drinkability you will find in no other beer at any price, I challenge ‘em to brew up a lager that’s better. No takers to date. — Ken Fortenberry

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Waldo: <<don’t forget us "rhododendron" experts in the blue ridge…. mountain laurel hell! AKA Fortenberry’s Flowers!  d;0)

Yeah, what’s the deal with the rhodedendrons in the Nantahala ? I had to go to Beckley, West Virginia under very sad circumstances and to kill time before the funeral I drove around the surrounding countryside. The rhodedendrons were in bloom and it was a spectacular sight. And too, I’ve read reports of hikes along the Appalachian Trail where the rhodedendrons in bloom are described in reverential tones. When I was in North Carolina with the two reprobates referenced above there were plenty of rhodedendrons, we thrashed through them, cursed them, removed our flies from them and used them as trail markers, but there were no blooms. Not a single blooming flower (pun intended):-). Any horticulturists in our midst care to take a stab at an explanation ? (And I’m not talking to those of you that buy caviar for prostitutes.) — Ken Fortenberry You can lead a whore to culture, but you can’t make her think.                                                         -Dorothy Parker-

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Mike: <<Did i mention almost a college grad too, been studying molecular biology.. and have a AS with alot of forestry and wildlife bio built in.  so i can understand at least 10 out of that top list hehe. mike Oh, great.  Exactly what we need — another pedant!!!! Oh, hell…….  Welcome aboard, Mike.  <g Dave LaCourse

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I was almost a college grad for more than ten years.  :-)<

Me too.  Best 10 years of my life.

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Waldo: <<don’t forget us "rhododendron" experts in the blue ridge…. mountain laurel hell! AKA Fortenberry’s Flowers!  d;0) Where da hell is my rod/reel case?  Must I employ Wayno to get it?  <G Dave LaCourse

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And I thought I was one of the few to graduate at 32! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was almost a college grad for more than ten years.  :-)< Me too.  Best 10 years of my life.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip Why, in addition to your hiking, hunting, and shooting, we have experts here on canoeing, politics, environment, beer, single-malt Scotch, kayaking, cooking, poetry, rod building, goats…..<snip …..scientific terminology, anti-retro-post-deconstuctionist theory (as applied to all of the above, and below), the true path to enlightenment, hydrophobia, hydrology, hydrangeas, metallurgy, dramaturgy, ballistics, statistics, logistics, political economy, autonomy, Deuteronomy, Exodus, calculus, elastic modulus, pathos, bathos, Athos, Porthos, ethics, literary criticism, philology, philosophy, phylogeny, philandering, filigree, fillets, philodendrons, fillips, Philippinos, fistulas, fissures, fishers, martens, minks, Gink, Xink, (and the kitchen sink!) and a few other things that I can’t even spell!

Don’t forget robot fish! — Levi I have been through some terrible things in my life – some of which actually happened.  –Mark Twain

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Hi I’m mike, I am 25 and live in Westchester county, in the state of

Welcome to the group Mike. TL MC

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip Why, in addition to your hiking, hunting, and shooting, we have experts here on canoeing, politics, environment, beer, single-malt Scotch, kayaking, cooking, poetry, rod building, goats…..<snip …..scientific terminology, anti-retro-post-deconstuctionist theory (as applied to all of the above, and below), the true path to enlightenment, hydrophobia, hydrology, hydrangeas, metallurgy, dramaturgy, ballistics, statistics, logistics, political economy, autonomy, Deuteronomy, Exodus, calculus, elastic modulus, pathos, bathos, Athos, Porthos, ethics, literary criticism, philology, philosophy, phylogeny, philandering, filigree, fillets, philodendrons, fillips, Philippinos, fistulas, fissures, fishers, martens, minks, Gink, Xink, (and the kitchen sink!) and a few other things that I can’t even spell!

Did i mention almost a college grad too, been studying molecular biology.. and have a AS with alot of forestry and wildlife bio built in.  so i can understand at least 10 out of that top list hehe. mike

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip Why, in addition to your hiking, hunting, and shooting, we have experts here on canoeing, politics, environment, beer, single-malt Scotch, kayaking, cooking, poetry, rod building, goats…..<snip …..scientific terminology, anti-retro-post-deconstuctionist theory (as applied to all of the above, and below), the true path to enlightenment, hydrophobia, hydrology, hydrangeas, metallurgy, dramaturgy, ballistics, statistics, logistics, political economy, autonomy, Deuteronomy, Exodus, calculus, elastic modulus, pathos, bathos, Athos, Porthos, ethics, literary criticism, philology, philosophy, phylogeny, philandering, filigree, fillets, philodendrons, fillips, Philippinos, fistulas, fissures, fishers, martens, minks, Gink, Xink, (and the kitchen sink!) and a few other things that I can’t even spell!

LOL.   I think you’ve filled in the blanks nicely, but I have to make at least one post with the word "meniscus" in it.   There. Joe F.

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Did i mention almost a college grad too

Big deal.   I was almost a college grad for more than ten years.  :-) Joe F.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip Why, in addition to your hiking, hunting, and shooting, we have experts here on canoeing, politics, environment, beer, single-malt Scotch, kayaking, cooking, poetry, rod building, goats…..<snip …..scientific terminology, anti-retro-post-deconstuctionist theory (as applied to all of the above, and below), the true path to enlightenment, hydrophobia, hydrology, hydrangeas, metallurgy, dramaturgy, ballistics, statistics, logistics, political economy, autonomy, Deuteronomy, Exodus, calculus, elastic modulus, pathos, bathos, Athos, Porthos, ethics, literary criticism, philology, philosophy, phylogeny, philandering, filigree, fillets, philodendrons, fillips, Philippinos, fistulas, fissures, fishers, martens, minks, Gink, Xink, (and the kitchen sink!) and a few other things that I can’t even spell!

don’t forget us "rhododendron" experts in the blue ridge…. mountain laurel hell! walt — Ezflyfish.com                 Blue Ridge Book Gallery Quality Gear & Service        Used & Out-of-Print Books http://www.ezflyfish.com      http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

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Before flyfishing I have been a avid Hiker, small/big game hunter, and dedicated gun collector and shooter.

Hi Mike, Welcome to ROFF.   This is a one-stop shop for a guy like you.  We’ve got all those bases covered and more!   Why, in addition to your hiking, hunting, and shooting, we have experts here on canoeing, politics, environment, beer, single-malt Scotch, kayaking, cooking, poetry, rod building, goats and damn near anything else.   We even talk about fishing once in a while. Nice to meet all of you.

You might want to hold back on that; you haven’t met all of us yet.  <g Joe F.

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<snip Why, in addition to your hiking, hunting, and shooting, we have experts here on canoeing, politics, environment, beer, single-malt Scotch, kayaking, cooking, poetry, rod building, goats…..<snip

…..scientific terminology, anti-retro-post-deconstuctionist theory (as applied to all of the above, and below), the true path to enlightenment, hydrophobia, hydrology, hydrangeas, metallurgy, dramaturgy, ballistics, statistics, logistics, political economy, autonomy, Deuteronomy, Exodus, calculus, elastic modulus, pathos, bathos, Athos, Porthos, ethics, literary criticism, philology, philosophy, phylogeny, philandering, filigree, fillets, philodendrons, fillips, Philippinos, fistulas, fissures, fishers, martens, minks, Gink, Xink, (and the kitchen sink!) and a few other things that I can’t even spell!

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Hi I’m mike, I am 25 and live in Westchester county, in the state of NY..right next to the metro area.  I mainly fish in the croton system, and I have actually finally gotten the hang of fishing in a river less than 10 ft wide!  I am also thinking of joining my local chapter of Trout Unlimited to meet some fellow sportsman. Before flyfishing I have been a avid Hiker, small/big game hunter, and dedicated gun collector and shooter.  Nice to meet all of you. PS i’ll have alot of questions for you all when i come into a snag or two. mike

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Question:

I will be in Salida Co next week for a day or two.  Iam interested in fishing a bit. Any suggestions would be appreciated;  best locations, flys to try, local contacts.  Thanks in advance for your help.  james mahan

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I will be in Salida Co next week for a day or two.  Iam interested in fishing a bit. Any suggestions would be appreciated;  best locations, flys to try, local contacts.  Thanks in advance for your help. james mahan

I would suggest the South Platte near Deckers.  It’s less than an hour from there and is supposedly fishing great.  I haven’t fished there in a while, but that would be my favorite place near Salida.  There is a fly shop in Deckers that can probably let you know what the fish are taking.  Wildcat

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Question:

Try rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Sorry can’t help you with the hatch.

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: Folks, : Is there a flyfishing newsgroup? If so, would most appreciate the : address. I can’t seem to get my server to list all the available groups. : Thanks and would really appreciate e-mail. : BTW, anyone know what kind of hatch might be going on at a subalpine : lake (9,000) in western Montana? This for a novel I’m writing. rec.outdoors.fishing.fly rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying

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Folks, Is there a flyfishing newsgroup? If so, would most appreciate the address. I can’t seem to get my server to list all the available groups. Thanks and would really appreciate e-mail. BTW, anyone know what kind of hatch might be going on at a subalpine lake (9,000) in western Montana? This for a novel I’m writing.

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Question:

hey   kevin     my name is david and im 14 years old.  Ive never been to st petersburg but ive been to marco island/naples to fish for snook and its really  fun. I went out by a dock and threw my fly in the perfect place and a 10 lbs. snook hit it.   It took me 15-20 mins to get him to the boat and that was one of my favorite fishing trips ever. I hope have fun and catch a big one when you go on your trip. david screen name: snookage

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I like it when they blast out of the water after a take. I caught one down in the glades that I thought was a posiden when it came out of the water. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hey   kevin     my name is david and im 14 years old.  Ive never been to st petersburg but ive been to marco island/naples to fish for snook and its really  fun. I went out by a dock and threw my fly in the perfect place and a 10 lbs. snook hit it.   It took me 15-20 mins to get him to the boat and that was one of my favorite fishing trips ever. I hope have fun and catch a big one when you go on your trip. david screen name: snookage

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Question:

If any one out there has mounted turkey tailfeathers in the fan position with the beard below, could you advise on how to remove the tail section (where to cut)? and how to preserve "set" the fan etc?

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If any one out there has mounted turkey tailfeathers in the fan position with the beard below, could you advise on how to remove the tail section (where to cut)? and how to preserve "set" the fan etc?

I have mounted several.  The easiest way is to buy a kit.  I bought a real nice one from Duns several years ago.  It had a solid Walnut plaque.  The only ones I can find in the catalogs now are press board with a laminate.  The kits come with all you need. With or without a kit, the first step is to cut off the tail along with about 6 inches of back skin and feathers.  Use a sharp knife to cut as much meat from the tail as you can without destabilizing the tail feathers.  Next you need some Borax.  It is hard to find.  I found some a Kmart several years ago.  A large box should last a lifetime. Be sure to get Borax not Boraxo (a combination of borax and soap).  Rub the borax into skin and any remaining meat.  A table spoon or two should be more than enough.  This acts as a preservative. The next step is to arrange the tail feathers.   Get a large cardboard box.  I use one of the large UHAUL moving boxes.  The box should be in its original flat form not folded into a box form.  Get a dozen or so nails.  Lay the box flat on the floor and put the tail on it.  Spread the feathers evenly to form a fan.  Use the nails like thumb tacks to hold the main tail feathers evenly apart.  Set this aside in a dry cool environment to set.  In a couple of weeks or less the tail will harden in the form you placed it in. Now, lets look at the beard.  When you pluck the bird, firmly but gently pull the beard from the breast.  It should come right off.  There are several ways to prep this for display.  My favorite is to use some heavy nylon thread (sewing store or fly fishing shop).  I like to wrap the top 1/4 inch of the beard with the thread.  You can tie the thread off neatly using the same technique bow mechanics use to finish a serving. You can find this technique in many archery magazines with pictures.  If you tie your own flies you probably are familiar with a Whip finish. This works fine as well.  I then coat the thread lightly with clear nail polish to help hold it in place.  Set this aside to dry. Now lets look at the spurs.  There are many techniques used to display these, but this is my favorite.  I use a hack saw to cross cut the leg just below and just above each spur.  Use a sharp knife to remove the scaly skin and any flesh from the bone.  Hot water helps.  Next I use a grinder or disc sander to flatten the sides of the bone and round the corners.  You want to end up with enough bone that is flat enough to drill a small hole through.  I usually buy a couple of gold colored brads from the hardware store.  Pick a drill bit slightly larger than the brads. If you get a kit, follow the directions for installing the pieces.  If not, you first want to make a shelf for the fan.  The dimensions depend on the size of your plaque.  Start with 1 x 1/2 x 6 inches.  Make a datto down the middle of the length of the shelf.  The datto should be about 1/2 inch wide and 1/4 inch deep.  This the dattoed side will be the bottom of the shelf.  Center the shelf from left to right on your plaque about 1/4 of the way down from the top.  Use screws through the back of the plaque to secure the shelf.  Next, set the fan on top of the shelf.  Use short drywall screws to screw through the base of the tail into the plaque.  Don’t worry about hiding the screws.  You will next make a half round cover plaque.  The flat side is the same length as the shelf.  The height at center is high enough to obscure the screws and ugly base of the tail.  This should be as thin as possible and can be any material you like.  It should be as thin as possible.  1/8 inch or less.  It is simply decorative.  You can use nice gold brads to secure it to the shelf.  You can put a picture or any decoration you want on the cover plaque.  Use three brads to secure the cover plate to the shelf.  You may want to drill slightly undersized holes for the brads. The center brad should be as long as the shelf is deep and centered on the shelf.  the height of all brads should be 1/2 of the depth of the datto. Next, insert the top of the beard into the center of the shelf datto. then insert the center brad through the cover plate, the front of the shelf, the beard, and the back of the shelf. Finally, position the spurs against the lower side of the main plaque on either side of the hanging beard.  Use two gold brads through the holes you drilled in the bone to secure the spurs. This is only one of many techniques. Enjoy, Jack

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Question:

: I was browsing around a couple weeks ago at the local Wal-mart and : came across "Spider Wire" – a braided Spectra fishing line. I’ve also : come across some in a Netcraft catalog – where its significantly : cheaper ($11-16 for 150 yards). [...] : I wonder if the .013" stuff would be OK for moderately large models. : No, I don’t plan to try this stuff in Combat – it’d be interesting to : use it as a streamer leader though – cut off the other guy’s wing [...] I have had much success on model rockets to use the pre-assembled fishing leaders that you find at Walmart, Kmart, etc.  Usually has 12" small diameter wire, with connector on one end, and snap swivel on the other.  Either mount them under a centering ring if length permits, or epoxy them to the airframe wall.  I suggest making the swivel about even with top of airframe to minimize zippering the body tube, but I’ve had good luck with letting them hang out.  Attach shock cord to swivel end of the leader. —          /       Lee Reep                    voice: 303/229-2010     /  /~~  /   Fort Collins, Colorado                TRA 2007

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Anyhow.. Here is number you call to get a Netcraft catalog.         1-800-638-2723 The address is:         Netcraft         2800 Tremainsville Road,         Toledo, OH 43613 Incidentally, besides the Spectra, they have a huge variety of other stuff that we’d all be interested in: snaps and swivels, steel leader wire, crimping sleeves, tools, carbon fiber fishing rod blanks, (small) Cyalume sticks (work great for low altitude rockets at night, but I’d use the larger 4 inchers for anything that goes above 200 feet), threads and line of all descriptions, storage boxes, etc. etc. Incidentally.. last night I was at the Wal Mart again and found another brand of Spectra line. The brand was "Lynch line". It came in test weights to 80 pounds and as little as 35 pounds. The 35# stuff, though, was the same diameter as the Spider Wire 50# test – .014". It was quite a bit cheaper than the Spider Wire. — Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala

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: Yesterday I was at the first (for me) contest of the season. I got a : kill off someone by snagging his streamer with my inboard leading : edge. Problem was the string the management supplies was a little too : think – it broke both spars and tore off half the inboard wing!  ^^^^^ Alright.  Make up your mind.  Thin or Thick.  (It could go either way.)

It was rope jr. ^_^;; Looks like I’m going to have to learn to splice wings.. my planes usually get thrown away (actually I have 15-20 moldering away in a closet ^_^;;) after getting damaged (usually because I come up with new hotter designs) but this one was the second newest one in my fleet! — Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala

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: Yesterday I was at the first (for me) contest of the season. I got a : kill off someone by snagging his streamer with my inboard leading : edge. Problem was the string the management supplies was a little too : think – it broke both spars and tore off half the inboard wing!   ^^^^^ Alright.  Make up your mind.  Thin or Thick.  (It could go either way.) —

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What exactly is "parachute cord"? You don’t mean the stuff for full-size parachutes, do you? Incidentally, I hear that Kevlar lines need sleeving, too. I guess I’m showing my age by calling it that.  The stuff was developed for that use.  It comes in several diameters and you want the stuff that IS, indeed, useed in small parachutes (drag chutes).    People also use parachute cord to make "slinkies".  "Slinkies" are short  lengths of parachute cord stuffed with lead (preferably steel…) shot,  used as substitutes for sinkers/split shot in drift-fishing rivers/streams  with snaggy bottoms.  Slinkies are less prone to snagging.

So is Parachute Cord hollow, or do you have to pull the inner filler out? All the braided line I’ve seen has an inner core. What diameter are we talking about for sleeving? I imagine the stuff used for "slinkies" is of a larger diameter. — Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala

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The motor like sound comes from the vibrating trailing edge of the sail (fabric). Control lines can produce whistle like sound. Gee Simo…did you really think I didn’t know that?  I was joking about the motor.

Now you can be stronger in your faith… Simo —

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<questions about Spectra) : I wonder if the .013" stuff would be OK for moderately large models. : No, I don’t plan to try this stuff in Combat – it’d be interesting to : use it as a streamer leader though – cut off the other guy’s wing : ^_^;; In *any* contact, the Spectra loses; it has a *very* low melting point and any friction cuts it instantly. For cutting wings off <grin, use Kevlar. In fact, for your use I would recommend it over Spectra, although it is not as UV-resistant; just don’t leave the lines out in the sun when you’re not using them and they should last for years.

Heh… Speaking of cutting off wings.. Yesterday I was at the first (for me) contest of the season. I got a kill off someone by snagging his streamer with my inboard leading edge. Problem was the string the management supplies was a little too think – it broke both spars and tore off half the inboard wing! — Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I was browsing around a couple weeks ago at the local Wal-mart and came across "Spider Wire" – a braided Spectra fishing line. I’ve also come across some in a Netcraft catalog – where its significantly cheaper ($11-16 for 150 yards). Apparently it comes in about 6 or 7 different thicknesses (.006 to ..013 inch) and 3 colors (green, grey, white) and is very strong. It doesn’t stretch. I will want to use the thin stuff for control-line wire for flying 1/2-As. Questions: 1) Does this stuff deteriorate badly in sunlight 2) Is it fuel proof (I assume so, its polyethylene) 3) How do you make ends? "Traditional" steel C/L wire is terminated   using copper or aluminum crimping sleeves. What about those   "fisherman’s knots" that are used for monofilament? The ones where   the line wraps around itself several times. One could substitute the   line clip for the fishing hook. Would crimping sleeves work? What   are these "sleeves" that kite fliers use? I wonder if the .013" stuff would be OK for moderately large models. No, I don’t plan to try this stuff in Combat – it’d be interesting to use it as a streamer leader though – cut off the other guy’s wing

Wow!  Control line.  It’s been about 35 years since I fooled around with C/L.  – fun stuff.   I use the polypro stuff for fishing.  I’d say it is fairly resistant to sunlight and fuels.  I would suggest tying to a small snap using a polamar or a trilene knot, then "seal" the knot with a tiny drop of super-glue. I suspect you could fly a Cessna 180 with the .013 stuff  I think I would try something around .008 or about 20# test for 1/2 A. The stuff is real slippery (good for loops) and that quality can be enhanced by spraying with ACE or any other generic brand of silicone lubricant. Have fun.

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1) Does this stuff deteriorate badly in sunlight

I’ve never had any problems with my lines deteriorating. 2) Is it fuel proof (I assume so, its polyethylene)

Wouldn’t know about this.  My kite sounds like it has a motor in it (several people have asked what kind of motor I’m using) but there really isn’t one…honest 3) How do you make ends? "Traditional" steel C/L wire is terminated   using copper or aluminum crimping sleeves. What about those   "fisherman’s knots" that are used for monofilament? The ones where   the line wraps around itself several times. One could substitute the   line clip for the fishing hook. Would crimping sleeves work? What   are these "sleeves" that kite fliers use?

I’d really like to hear what the fishing folks say about this as it’s the major bugaboo.  In kiting we sleeve each line before making a bend in it as the stuff is very brittle when bent.  We use parachute chord and thread the Spectra through it.  Then we can loop the cord back and tie it without problems.   This is true of normal fishing line as well and a simple knot will reduce the line strength by an order of magnitude.  Thus, there are several knots that try to get around this and are somewhat successful.  They amount to wrapping the line back on itself and around itself.  This increases strength by the simple redundancy so that the knot itself, while it weakens the area by the tying, doesn’t completely give up the strength.  In stunt kiting, though, we want 150-200lb test lines with the diameter of 6lb monofilament. I wonder if the .013" stuff would be OK for moderately large models. No, I don’t plan to try this stuff in Combat – it’d be interesting to use it as a streamer leader though – cut off the other guy’s wing

This is really the downside of Spectra.  It’s SHARP.  Any stunt kiter who tells you they’ve never been cut by it either hasn’t used it very long or they’re lying — # Canadian Forest Service              _||  |/|_                         # # Petawawa National Forestry Institute        /    Tel:  (613) 589-2880 # # Chalk River, Ontario  K0J 1J0         ______<     Fax:  (613) 589-2275 # # CANADA                                   /                              #

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Sleeving.. A needle of sorts.  Really nothing more than a loop of wire that’s pinched at two places to form an elongated loop.  You can then lay the line in one end and push the wire through.  You want something dull, though, so that you don’t tear through any fibres in the sleeving.  I’m sure you can buy sleeving at Into the Wind but I’ve just used parachute cord and it works fine.

What exactly is "parachute cord"? You don’t mean the stuff for full-size parachutes, do you? Incidentally, I hear that Kevlar lines need sleeving, too. Its Spectra vs. styrofoam, though. Maybe a spruce spar or two also. I don’t share the view that Spectra will always lose.  It’s not used on fighter kites because it is more brittle than other lines.  I doubt it would get through a spruce spar but it would likely take a considerable bite out of styrofoam.  The big problem would be cut-offs if it hit any of the clips, control cables, or metal/wood parts.  BTW, aren’t there rules against using anything but braided metal lines for anything but 1/2A?

Sullivan sells Kevlar control lines. They aren’t too popular, though. By the way, C/L airplanes behave much like stunt kites – you pull on one line and it turns one way, pull on the other and it goes the other Yeah, except you don’t have to worry about your competitor getting you upwind and loose

Yeah.. I’d like to see a kite fly upwind ^_^ The Kevlar seems a little thick (at least the stuff on sale at Wal-Mart) for 1/2-As, but we do plan to try it out. Its a lot cheaper than the Spectra, by the way. What is the "Wal-Mart" use for Kevlar?  I’ve never used it for kite lines but from talking to those who have, it just doesn’t hold up like Spectra. Might be the lack of UV resistance but most folks chalk it up to being "too brittle".

Its fishing line. "Stren" brand, to be exact. On the same display case for that matter. — Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala

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Wouldn’t know about this.  My kite sounds like it has a motor in it (several people have asked what kind of motor I’m using) but there really isn’t one…honest

I noticed that in certain kites there is a motor like sound when they fly.  Is it caused by the control line or by the farbic of the kite itself? 874 Dillingham Blvd.       | Honolulu, HI 96817         | Ph#: (808) 845-9202        |

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How is this done? A needle? Where do you get the sleeving? "Into-the-Wind"? (I visited their showroom in Denver once, by the way..)

A needle of sorts.  Really nothing more than a loop of wire that’s pinched at two places to form an elongated loop.  You can then lay the line in one end and push the wire through.  You want something dull, though, so that you don’t tear through any fibres in the sleeving.  I’m sure you can buy sleeving at Into the Wind but I’ve just used parachute cord and it works fine. In *any* contact, the Spectra loses; it has a *very* low melting point and any friction cuts it instantly. Its Spectra vs. styrofoam, though. Maybe a spruce spar or two also.

I don’t share the view that Spectra will always lose.  It’s not used on fighter kites because it is more brittle than other lines.  I doubt it would get through a spruce spar but it would likely take a considerable bite out of styrofoam.  The big problem would be cut-offs if it hit any of the clips, control cables, or metal/wood parts.  BTW, aren’t there rules against using anything but braided metal lines for anything but 1/2A? Something I’d forgotten to ask about is abrasion resistance and how easily it slides over itself. The stunt kite people ought to be able to answer this one.

This is not a problem.  You can wrap them up quite a lot before you start feeling friction problems.  It’s probably better than braided metal in this respect. By the way, C/L airplanes behave much like stunt kites – you pull on one line and it turns one way, pull on the other and it goes the other

Yeah, except you don’t have to worry about your competitor getting you upwind and loose For cutting wings off <grin, use Kevlar. In fact, for your use I would recommend it over Spectra, although it is not as UV-resistant; just don’t leave the lines out in the sun when you’re not using them and they should last for years. The Kevlar seems a little thick (at least the stuff on sale at Wal-Mart) for 1/2-As, but we do plan to try it out. Its a lot cheaper than the Spectra, by the way.

What is the "Wal-Mart" use for Kevlar?  I’ve never used it for kite lines but from talking to those who have, it just doesn’t hold up like Spectra. Might be the lack of UV resistance but most folks chalk it up to being "too brittle". — # Canadian Forest Service              _||  |/|_                         # # Petawawa National Forestry Institute        /    Tel:  (613) 589-2880 # # Chalk River, Ontario  K0J 1J0         ______<     Fax:  (613) 589-2275 # # CANADA                                   /                              #

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Sleeves are short lengths of braided dacron line; these are hollow braids. You slip a length of it over the Spectra (long enough to cover entire loop and knotted area) and then make the loop with a double- overhand knot, being careful to keep the two parts parallel through the knot. Some people recommend two d-oh knots a short distance apart to prevent the Spectra slipping through the knot.

How is this done? A needle? Where do you get the sleeving? "Into-the-Wind"? (I visited their showroom in Denver once, by the way..) : I wonder if the .013" stuff would be OK for moderately large models. : No, I don’t plan to try this stuff in Combat – it’d be interesting to : use it as a streamer leader though – cut off the other guy’s wing : ^_^;; In *any* contact, the Spectra loses; it has a *very* low melting point and any friction cuts it instantly.

Its Spectra vs. styrofoam, though. Maybe a spruce spar or two also. Something I’d forgotten to ask about is abrasion resistance and how easily it slides over itself. The stunt kite people ought to be able to answer this one. By the way, C/L airplanes behave much like stunt kites – you pull on one line and it turns one way, pull on the other and it goes the other way. The difference is that the lines are on a handle and you use one hand to do the controlling. I’ve seen stunt kites flown like this, except the "handle" is a 3 foot long broomstick. In fact, someone sells a "combat trainer" kite, ostensibly for learning how to fly C/L planes. There are also engineless C/L planes called "wind fliers". You fly them on the downwind side of the circle when the wind blows, assisting it now and then by whipping. For cutting wings off <grin, use Kevlar. In fact, for your use I would recommend it over Spectra, although it is not as UV-resistant; just don’t leave the lines out in the sun when you’re not using them and they should last for years.

The Kevlar seems a little thick (at least the stuff on sale at Wal-Mart) for 1/2-As, but we do plan to try it out. Its a lot cheaper than the Spectra, by the way. — Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala

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The motor like sound comes from the vibrating trailing edge of the sail (fabric). Control lines can produce whistle like sound.

Gee Simo…did you really think I didn’t know that?  I was joking about the motor. — # Canadian Forest Service              _||  |/|_                         # # Petawawa National Forestry Institute        /    Tel:  (613) 589-2880 # # Chalk River, Ontario  K0J 1J0         ______<     Fax:  (613) 589-2275 # # CANADA                                   /                              #

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What exactly is "parachute cord"? You don’t mean the stuff for full-size parachutes, do you? Incidentally, I hear that Kevlar lines need sleeving, too.

I guess I’m showing my age by calling it that.  The stuff was developed for that use.  It comes in several diameters and you want the stuff that IS, indeed, useed in small parachutes (drag chutes).  And yes, Kevlar should be sleeved also. Yeah.. I’d like to see a kite fly upwind ^_^

– # Canadian Forest Service              _||  |/|_                         # # Petawawa National Forestry Institute        /    Tel:  (613) 589-2880 # # Chalk River, Ontario  K0J 1J0         ______<     Fax:  (613) 589-2275 # # CANADA                                   /                              #

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Wouldn’t know about this.  My kite sounds like it has a motor in it (several people have asked what kind of motor I’m using) but there really isn’t one…honest I noticed that in certain kites there is a motor like sound when they fly.  Is it caused by the control line or by the farbic of the kite itself?

The motor like sound comes from the vibrating trailing edge of the sail (fabric). Control lines can produce whistle like sound. Simo —

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I’m cross-posting this to rec.fishing, and rec.kites (where Spectra lines have been used for a long time) in the hopes that I can get my questions answered. I was browsing around a couple weeks ago at the local Wal-mart and came across "Spider Wire" – a braided Spectra fishing line. I’ve also come across some in a Netcraft catalog – where its significantly cheaper ($11-16 for 150 yards). Apparently it comes in about 6 or 7 different thicknesses (.006 to .013 inch) and 3 colors (green, grey, white) and is very strong. It doesn’t stretch. I will want to use the thin stuff for control-line wire for flying 1/2-As. Questions: 1) Does this stuff deteriorate badly in sunlight 2) Is it fuel proof (I assume so, its polyethylene) 3) How do you make ends? "Traditional" steel C/L wire is terminated    using copper or aluminum crimping sleeves. What about those    "fisherman’s knots" that are used for monofilament? The ones where    the line wraps around itself several times. One could substitute the    line clip for the fishing hook. Would crimping sleeves work? What    are these "sleeves" that kite fliers use? I wonder if the .013" stuff would be OK for moderately large models. No, I don’t plan to try this stuff in Combat – it’d be interesting to use it as a streamer leader though – cut off the other guy’s wing ^_^;; — Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala

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<questions about Spectra) : 1) Does this stuff deteriorate badly in sunlight It is better than a lot of materials for UV resistance, but not UV-proof. : 2) Is it fuel proof (I assume so, its polyethylene) Dunno, never tried, but I’d tend to assume so, for the same reason as you. : 3) How do you make ends? "Traditional" steel C/L wire is terminated :    using copper or aluminum crimping sleeves. What about those :    "fisherman’s knots" that are used for monofilament? The ones where :    the line wraps around itself several times. One could substitute the :    line clip for the fishing hook. Would crimping sleeves work? What :    are these "sleeves" that kite fliers use? Sleeves are short lengths of braided dacron line; these are hollow braids. You slip a length of it over the Spectra (long enough to cover entire loop and knotted area) and then make the loop with a double- overhand knot, being careful to keep the two parts parallel through the knot. Some people recommend two d-oh knots a short distance apart to prevent the Spectra slipping through the knot. : I wonder if the .013" stuff would be OK for moderately large models. : No, I don’t plan to try this stuff in Combat – it’d be interesting to : use it as a streamer leader though – cut off the other guy’s wing : ^_^;; In *any* contact, the Spectra loses; it has a *very* low melting point and any friction cuts it instantly. For cutting wings off <grin, use Kevlar. In fact, for your use I would recommend it over Spectra, although it is not as UV-resistant; just don’t leave the lines out in the sun when you’re not using them and they should last for years. — …I studied with diligence Neptune’s laws, and these laws I tried to obey… <Joshua Slocum

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How is this done? A needle? Where do you get the sleeving? "Into-the-Wind"? (I visited their showroom in Denver once, by the way..)

Take a two foot length of thin wire (fishing leader or even your metal C/L line and bend it back on itself. Thread this wire into the sleeving material and then loop the spectra between the two sides of the wire and pull it back. Something I’d forgotten to ask about is abrasion resistance and how easily it slides over itself. The stunt kite people ought to be able to answer this one.

It is very slippery and does slide over itself. In this respect it would probably work great for C/L. Unfortunately, abrasion resistance is pretty low. Overall, Spectra is fragile stuff. Be careful about snagging it on objects or on the ground. If you do use it, check it periodically for nicks and abrasion points. The Kevlar seems a little thick (at least the stuff on sale at Wal-Mart) for 1/2-As, but we do plan to try it out. Its a lot cheaper than the Spectra, by the way.

For a given breaking strength, Kevlar and Spectra are about the same size in cross section. Stretching characteristics are also about the same. Kevlar is a lot tougher though, and you don’t have to worry so much about abrasion and contact with other lines. — Marty Sasaki            Harvard University           Sasaki Kite Fabrications 617-496-4320            10 Ware Street               Jamaica Plain, MA 02130                         Cambridge, MA 02138-4002     phone/fax: 617-522-8546

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