Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing Rods

Subject: In memory of a fly fisherman and a dear friend for 25 years

admin — Sun, 08 Dec 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

All, A man I knew for the last 25 years as a dear friend and a fly fisherman passed away last night at the age of 68. This man survived the Korean War flying some of our best jets of that time and continued flying until medical problems grounded him. His main interest in life was fly fishing and fly tying. When he could not find the materials he wanted for tying or fishing, he made them. He even defied the odds and manufactured his own fly rods and produced some of the finest rods I’ve ever had the privilege to cast. I know that many on this list were his friend and will also miss him. This list will miss his quips and comments. Whether you agreed with him or not, he did made you think. George, we will all miss you. In memory of George Gehrke, Karl Snyder — a friend

Response:

In memory of George Gehrke, Karl Snyder — a friend

Friend or foe, from all I’ve heard, he was an excellent angler. Tight lines George. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

Response:

In memory of George Gehrke,

It’s good he was able to make it to the Henrys Fork Clave, and probably why he strived to get there. He obviously enjoyed himself there, and (for better or worse) enjoyed frequenting roff. My thoughts are with his friends and family. — TL, George. Tim

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All, A man I knew for the last 25 years as a dear friend and a fly fisherman passed away last night at the age of 68. This man survived the Korean War flying some of our best jets of that time and continued flying until medical problems grounded him. His main interest in life was fly fishing and fly tying. When he could not find the materials he wanted for tying or fishing, he made them. He even defied the odds and manufactured his own fly rods and produced some of the finest rods I’ve ever had the privilege to cast. I know that many on this list were his friend and will also miss him. This list will miss his quips and comments. Whether you agreed with him or not, he did made you think. George, we will all miss you. In memory of George Gehrke, Karl Snyder — a friend

Very sorry to hear that, Karl. No matter if the people on this list were his friends or not, I think that we all will miss his posts, for sure I will. Even if I didn

I dream of brookies.

admin — Mon, 07 Oct 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I tried that one out. The nearest fly shops were down in Williamsport. I was kinda hoping to find one right in Canton, preferably staffed by a cute young lady with a soft spot for engineers on quests. Hope springs eternal and all that… My work firewall won’t let me into the forum section, so I haven’t posted questions yet. Barring any particular solutions, I can just use general solutions: Be polite, bring five sizes of Adams and tie on 7x. You picked (or had fantastic dumb luck) a great area to fish and nearly the perfect time of year to go.

One of my friends just bought a new digital camera so I’ll post pictures of the scenery. I was in Bucks County last weekend and the trees were just starting to turn. I think by the time I get to Bradford County they’ll be mostly done, but the state of the leaves is really just a part of the whole experience. Brookies in the fall? You will be dazzled.

I hope so. It has the ingredients to become maudlin and possibly even mawkish. If the fish are even a tenth as beautiful as I remember (assuming I catch one), I might just begin to cry from the sheer emotional power of touching my inner child. At worst, I’ll start watching Lifetime or Oxygen… Kiyu

Thanks for the suggestion. Steve "I can see the mountains, I can see the sky, and it’s all too pretty for a man to want to die." -Johnny Cash, "25 Minutes to Go"

Response:

"You never even called me by my name"… Steve Goodman (City of new orleans) wrote it and sent it to David Allan Coe telling him it was the perfect country/western song, Coe replied saying it wasn’t because it didn’t mention pick up trucks, being drunk, trains, Momma, Prison or dying. Goodman wrote an additional verse sent it back and Coe recorded it. That verse went like this… "I was drunk, the day my Mom, got outta prison, and I went to pick her up in the rain, but before I could get to the station in my pick up truck, she got runned over by a damned old train…." Great sing along swing song I used to do at every gig, and if we forgot to include it the requests ensured we did. A good song, but just as good a laugh. Clark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Frank Reid" No one has written a country western song about it, I could, but probably wont….. Clark To quote an intro off a Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young album, "Here’s a song guaranteed to bring you right down. Its called, "Don’t let it bring you down."" Who was it that said the perfect country western song’s gotta have "trucks, trains, mothers" and a few other things? — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

Response:

"Brian D. Nelson" Wasn’t that Merle?? Nope, David Allan Coe sang it, Steve Goodman wrote it. Clark

Response:

"I was drunk, the day my Mom, got outta prison, and I went to pick her up in the rain, but before I could get to the station in my pick up truck, she got runned over by a damned old train…."

Clark, I know you will remember the bit by Billy Connolly (or as he says, Big Bill Connolly, the man who put the c**t in Country Music). He was the big scottish guy in "Head of the Class" for the US readers. The bit deconstructs the genre in a humorous yet accurate way, talking about the tragedy, lost love, alcohol that form the common or garden country song. He tops the bit off with this little number: http://www.btinternet.com/~sarsen/billy/bc-candw.html Note the part that says "Country and Western Sounds" went like: Yo de lay eeeee .. lay eeee .. lay eeeee Wooo Wooo You know what I mean Cheers, — Gary M (remove ‘x’s from email address)

Response:

When I was a kid and I lived on the Western slopes of the Rockies, my father and I went fishing for brookies in small alpine creeks. We used spinning gear and worms and enjoyed the summer sunshine. My father was a very busy man and these trips were the highlight of our time in Colorado. We got up before light and dressed heavily because even in July the overnight temperatures would drop to near freezing. There was a perfunctory attempt at packing lunch, usually a block of cheese, leftover steak, two sodas, a sixpack and the obligatory thermos of coffee. Sometimes it was just the coffee and the sixpack. We drove out to Steamboat Springs, stopped at the same gas station for worms and headed up towards Hahn’s Peak. At first we went for the little brookies in the streams that flowed into Steamboat Lake. Later, Dad got a little twelve-foot aluminum boat and we trolled Steamboat Lake for rainbows, and then after we moved, bass in small lakes. No matter where I go or how I fish, I remember how perfect those little brookies were. The biggest we ever caught was eight inches and six was the norm. They all came from those sun-soaked little creeks where the water was so cold it hurt your feet and all the while, Hahn’s Peak looked down in all its purple benevolence. I’m older, and my third-grade enthusiasm is tempered with a little knowledge and a little skill. I know that those little brookies were invaders; they probably should have been cutthroats. It doesn’t change how beautiful they were or how great it was to be ten years old and fishing with Dad. In two weeks, I going with my friends to a cabin on the border between Bradford and Tioga Counties. According to the Pennsylvania Fishing and Boating Commission, there is a Class A Wild Trout Stream right in the little town of Canton, with a population of native brookies, wild and sustaining. Rathbone Creek, it is called. This will be my first chance at wild brookies, and more importantly, my first chance at natives: fish that have lived in that area since the glaciers retreated twelve thousand years ago. I’ve left the worms and the spinning rods behind (for the most part), and since I’ve taken up fly fishing I’ve considered a native brookie on a dry fly to be very meaningful and a fishing milestone. I think it will be almost a exciting as hooking my first steelhead (though not as dramatic). I’d like some help in this quest: Is there a fly shop in the vicinity of Canton? Is there public access to this Rathbone Creek? Is Rathbone the right idea? We’re not hooligans and we won’t trash anybody’s favorite spots. Thanks, Steve

Response:

… since I’ve taken up fly fishing I’ve considered a native brookie on a dry fly to be very meaningful and a fishing milestone. …

You’re a man after my own heart. I can’t help you with your Pennsylvania quest but you would be right at home in North Carolina. Uncle Waldo at ezflyfish could set you right up. Good luck. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

… since I’ve taken up fly fishing I’ve considered a native brookie on a dry fly to be very meaningful and a fishing milestone. … You’re a man after my own heart. I can’t help you with your Pennsylvania quest but you would be right at home in North Carolina. Uncle Waldo at ezflyfish could set you right up. Good luck.

I’ll second all of that and add that if you’re ever in Wisconsin or upper Michigan we can show you LOTS of native brookies. Wolfgang

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … since I’ve taken up fly fishing I’ve considered a native brookie on a dry fly to be very meaningful and a fishing milestone. … You’re a man after my own heart. I can’t help you with your Pennsylvania quest but you would be right at home in North Carolina. Uncle Waldo at ezflyfish could set you right up. Good luck. I’ll second all of that and add that if you’re ever in Wisconsin or upper Michigan we can show you LOTS of native brookies. Wolfgang

gotta go there and do that. it wouldn’t be maudlin, would it? yfitons wayno

Response:

I’ll second all of that and add that if you’re ever in Wisconsin or upper Michigan we can show you LOTS of native brookies. Wolfgang gotta go there and do that. it wouldn’t be maudlin, would it? yfitons wayno

just don’t trip over the meniscus Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … since I’ve taken up fly fishing I’ve considered a native brookie on a dry fly to be very meaningful and a fishing milestone. … You’re a man after my own heart. I can’t help you with your Pennsylvania quest but you would be right at home in North Carolina. Uncle Waldo at ezflyfish could set you right up. Good luck. I’ll second all of that and add that if you’re ever in Wisconsin or upper Michigan we can show you LOTS of native brookies. Wolfgang gotta go there and do that. it wouldn’t be maudlin, would it? yfitons wayno

Nope…….um……not on a school day anyway. Weekends…..well, you know. Wolfgang bring cheese!

Response:

You might try http://www.paflyfish.easetech.com/ There is a listing of fly shops (though I’m sure not complete) and a bullitin board wherre you can post your questions. Pretty active. It seems to be THE place to go to find out about Pa trout matters. You picked (or had fantastic dumb luck) a great area to fish and nearly the perfect time of year to go. Brookies in the fall? You will be dazzled. Kiyu

Response:

gotta go there and do that. it wouldn’t be maudlin, would it? yfitons wayno

No one has written a country western song about it, nor has anyone reported their rod missing. I would give it a 0.2 on the maudlin potentiometer. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

Response:

"Frank Reid" No one has written a country western song about it, I could, but probably wont….. Clark

Response:

"Frank Reid" No one has written a country western song about it, I could, but probably wont….. Clark

To quote an intro off a Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young album, "Here’s a song guaranteed to bring you right down. Its called, "Don’t let it bring you down."" Who was it that said the perfect country western song’s gotta have "trucks, trains, mothers" and a few other things? — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

Response:

Who was it that said the perfect country western song’s gotta have "trucks, trains, mothers" and a few other things?

David Allan Coe "…and he told me it was the perfect country and western song I wrote him back a letter and told him it was NOT the perfect country and western song because he hadn’t said anything about Momma, or trains, or trucks, or prison, or gettin’ drunk…" — Charlie…

Response:

Who was it that said the perfect country western song’s gotta have "trucks, trains, mothers" and a few other things?

Wasn’t that Merle?? — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

"…and he told me it was the perfect country and western song I wrote him back a letter and told him it was NOT the perfect country and western song because he hadn’t said anything about Momma, or trains, or trucks, or prison, or gettin’ drunk…"

"I was drunk the day my ma got out of prison…" Joe F.

Response:

Thanks, by the way, this is cool. Joe’s comment on Charlie’s post arrived on my server first. Still can’t see Charlie’s post. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

Response:

"I was drunk the day my ma got out of prison…" Joe F.

Since I can’t see Charlie’s post, who was it? — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

Response:

"I was drunk the day my ma got out of prison…" Joe F. Since I can’t see Charlie’s post, who was it?

David Allan Coe. — Charlie…

Response:

"Frank Reid" No one has written a country western song about it, I could, but probably wont….. Clark To quote an intro off a Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young album, "Here’s a song guaranteed to bring you right down. Its called, "Don’t let it bring you down.""

And then he adds, "It starts out kinda slow and then fizzles out altogether." Russell Some of these threads start out slow. It’s getting them to fizzle out that’s hard.

Response:

More Photo Essays up

admin — Sat, 14 Sep 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

(shit, gotta teach these friggin’ yankees EVERYTHING!)

tell me about it. it’s been my personal burden for decades. your friend in the old north state wayno

Response:

Where are these photo essays posted at? Tim Apple

Response:

Where are these photo essays posted at? Tim Apple

Here’s the link to the page on Peter’s site…some nice water on display. http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/strmr-13.html Cheers, Bill

Response:

Hmm…. Very nice, Peter. otoh, remind me never to take you to any of my favorite New Hampshire brookie ponds ‘lessen you leave your shootin’ iron at home!

and why not? :) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Speakin’ of brookie ponds, I hit two of the best on a sparkling White Mountain Fall day, one pond in the morning ’til lunch, the other after lunch ’til dark. Took three of my Winstons in the canoe, a 9/3 with a tiny white parachute midge on 7x, a 9/5 with a damselfly on 5x, and another 9/5 with a Type 6 uniform sinker tipped with a #10 Silverside. I was loaded for bear. The sky was blue, the sun was hot…and the wind was beginning to rise. Some nasty tropical weather is apparently coming up here to die and fighting that wind taxed the hell out of my trollin’ motor battery, not to mention making dry fly fishing more challenging at times. But I was determined to fish the three weight at least once this year so I set out, working along the windward bank, and had a ball. A 14" cold water brookie on this rod feels like a monster and before the first lap of the pond I was lucky enough to catch a couple of biguns to go with as many shorts. Kept working a dry fly along the shore line on a second lap catching the odd fish, ’til the rising wind pushed me into the clutches of The Dark Side and I took to trolling the deep middle with the supersinker. In short order – three passes over the really deep spot in the pond – I had caught a matched pair of slabby females and one precocious male short that was colored up like he meant business *this* year…

Did you set up the canoe of the windward side of the lake and let the wind blow you across? Years ago, I watched a TV spot with two guys in Quebec in a wooden boat that was a cross between a canoe and a row boat. There was a wicker chair at each end and the guys were stretched out, fly rods over the side, letting the wind push them across. Looked mighty peaceful way to fish. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Right about noon, feeling nicely toasted by rays, wind, and whatever, I pulled out and headed over to my first favorite little brookie pond and had lunch while the battery charged up. The wind had risen well beyond the 3 weight so I was down to the dry and wet fives. All afternoon I was looking for that "just barely legal" fish to boink and consume In The Name Of Tim. I fished the hell out of that pond with dry fly and streamer until near dark battling wind and white caps and wishing I had a dagger board clamped up alongside the bow. I did catch a half dozen fish before dark, but all were either undersized or honestly just too big – this close to spawning season I just can’t whack a big ol’ cow brookie or her old man (that’s *my* principle and I won’t be moved by some confused BassMaster wannabee out in Colorado . Still, felt like fish for dinner, so at dark as I drove back to my cabin I threw a reach cast into the little grocery in beautiful downtown Franconia and pulled out some Kipper snacks, smoked oysters, real cheddar cheese, and some gnarly bread that the local hippy bakery up here supplies to the store. And some *excellent* Tuckerman Pale Ale, brewed by Kirsten and Nik at Tuckerman Brewing Company in Conway. www.tuckermanbrewing.com Just one of the *many* New England brews that would kick that pommy Sleeman’s ass back to Saskatoon

ya right, take twenty of those yankee cabbage water brews to measure up to one Sleemans and it’s Guelph, not Saskatoon and the original Mr. Sleemans was probably a kraut, not a pommy (shit, gotta teach these friggin’ yankees EVERYTHING!) Hoping to meet up with Dave "Flyfish" Bottom in the morning on the Magalloway. It looks pretty grim on weather.com… /daytripper ("Mmmmmm….Kipper snacks!"

Haven’t had kippers since I was a kid – keep this up and you might get a surprise guest one day and you might be able to twist my arm enough for me to drink some of that cabbage water. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Bob Patton’s and Bill Mason’s photos are now up. Yet to come: Meramec – Bob Patton Whitemans Creek, ON Spring Creek, PA Penns Creek, PA Credit River, ON Rapid River, ME Bronte Creek, ON Saugeen River, ON AuSable, NY 18 Mile Creek, NY or until I run out of space on the server. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

forgot the URL http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/strmr-13.html Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Bob Patton’s and Bill Mason’s photos are now up.

Thank you again, Peter. Looking through the essay photos, I’m reminded that it’s really the little out-of-the-way waters I enjoy the most. The big, famous rivers offer their own unique experience, but I find that a day spent with a friend on an uncrowded stream really captures the essence of the sport for me. I’m looking forward to more pictures, but make sure that you leave yourself some time for fishing! Cheers, Bill —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

//snip// Thank you again, Peter. Looking through the essay photos, I’m reminded that it’s really the little out-of-the-way waters I enjoy the most. The big, famous rivers offer their own unique experience, but I find that a day spent with a friend on an uncrowded stream really captures the essence of the sport for me. I’m looking forward to more pictures, but make sure that you leave yourself some time for fishing! Cheers, Bill

I’ll second Bill’s comments. Thanks, Charles. Now, where the hell is Frenchman’s creek? Gotta go there soon! Bob

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – //snip// Thank you again, Peter. Looking through the essay photos, I’m reminded that it’s really the little out-of-the-way waters I enjoy the most. The big, famous rivers offer their own unique experience, but I find that a day spent with a friend on an uncrowded stream really captures the essence of the sport for me. I’m looking forward to more pictures, but make sure that you leave yourself some time for fishing! Cheers, Bill I’ll second Bill’s comments. Thanks, Charles. Now, where the hell is Frenchman’s creek? Gotta go there soon! Bob

Hmm…. Very nice, Peter. otoh, remind me never to take you to any of my favorite New Hampshire brookie ponds ‘lessen you leave your shootin’ iron at home! Speakin’ of brookie ponds, I hit two of the best on a sparkling White Mountain Fall day, one pond in the morning ’til lunch, the other after lunch ’til dark. Took three of my Winstons in the canoe, a 9/3 with a tiny white parachute midge on 7x, a 9/5 with a damselfly on 5x, and another 9/5 with a Type 6 uniform sinker tipped with a #10 Silverside. I was loaded for bear. The sky was blue, the sun was hot…and the wind was beginning to rise. Some nasty tropical weather is apparently coming up here to die and fighting that wind taxed the hell out of my trollin’ motor battery, not to mention making dry fly fishing more challenging at times. But I was determined to fish the three weight at least once this year so I set out, working along the windward bank, and had a ball. A 14" cold water brookie on this rod feels like a monster and before the first lap of the pond I was lucky enough to catch a couple of biguns to go with as many shorts. Kept working a dry fly along the shore line on a second lap catching the odd fish, ’til the rising wind pushed me into the clutches of The Dark Side and I took to trolling the deep middle with the supersinker. In short order – three passes over the really deep spot in the pond – I had caught a matched pair of slabby females and one precocious male short that was colored up like he meant business *this* year… Right about noon, feeling nicely toasted by rays, wind, and whatever, I pulled out and headed over to my first favorite little brookie pond and had lunch while the battery charged up. The wind had risen well beyond the 3 weight so I was down to the dry and wet fives. All afternoon I was looking for that "just barely legal" fish to boink and consume In The Name Of Tim. I fished the hell out of that pond with dry fly and streamer until near dark battling wind and white caps and wishing I had a dagger board clamped up alongside the bow. I did catch a half dozen fish before dark, but all were either undersized or honestly just too big – this close to spawning season I just can’t whack a big ol’ cow brookie or her old man (that’s *my* principle and I won’t be moved by some confused BassMaster wannabee out in Colorado . Still, felt like fish for dinner, so at dark as I drove back to my cabin I threw a reach cast into the little grocery in beautiful downtown Franconia and pulled out some Kipper snacks, smoked oysters, real cheddar cheese, and some gnarly bread that the local hippy bakery up here supplies to the store. And some *excellent* Tuckerman Pale Ale, brewed by Kirsten and Nik at Tuckerman Brewing Company in Conway. www.tuckermanbrewing.com Just one of the *many* New England brews that would kick that pommy Sleeman’s ass back to Saskatoon Hoping to meet up with Dave "Flyfish" Bottom in the morning on the Magalloway. It looks pretty grim on weather.com… /daytripper ("Mmmmmm….Kipper snacks!"

Response:

Repost: Wading In (Intro and History) sorta long

admin — Mon, 22 Jul 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Welcome back. We missed you. Signed Fish

Response:

*thick skin* to venture here(though why that is necessary to discuss something and tranquil and relaxing as fly fishing is beyond me)

So one would think… I was born and raised near Driggs, Idaho. Driggs is located in the middle of Teton Valley in southeastern Idaho. Running right down the middle of the valley is the Teton River.

That must’ve been beautiful. Growing up I was quite oblivious of the existence of the river

Youth is wasted on the young, as a wise and no doubt old man said. I set the hook and landed the most beautiful seven-inch brown trout I had ever seen, well at least in the last ten years.

I think returning makes it all the sweeter. Still euphoric, heck maybe giddy!

Happens to me all the time. Very nice read, Russell. Thanks for sharing. Steve

Response:

Your post reminded me that I sometimes take all this good stuff for granted. I just opened the shades in my office and spent a few minutes reveling in the joy of sight. If you’ve been lurking as you say, you’ve noticed some pretty heated discussions on photography. Interesting that we could all get so wrapped up in the topic of which is better and why, while others are just glad to see *any* image. My wife bought me a fishing licence for Father’s Day.

You’ve got a keeper there! She obviously saw the joy your new-found sight brought. Congrats. I bought me some new hip waders and patched my chest waders. I have made it out a few times since with great success. Thursday evening I am headed to Idaho to take care of some family business. I will be taking my rod, vest, waders and float tube and plan on being on the Teton River very early Friday morning. That is where it all started. I can’t wait.

I await your TR. Good luck catching fish, but *that* isn’t the most important part, now is it? :) Still euphoric, heck maybe giddy!

Keep spreading it around, my friend. You do it well. — TL, Tim

Response:

(This is a repost of a message I sent on July 7. The original somehow never made it out of my ISP’s server so I’m reposting with Google. A TR will follow later.) Because of a renewed (I’ll explain why renewed in a bit) interest in fly-fishing, I started lurking in ROFF about a month and a half ago. The more I observed from the banks, the more I began to wonder if I dare wade in lest I get my head bit off. you stupid son of a bitch – just a little something to make you feel like part of the group! Welcome to ROFF! There’s a Clave this Fall at Henry’s Fork. Willi

Response:

Russell Great story. Years ago fishing Spanish Fork and hunting mulies in the oak brush foothills with an old Enfield above the powder house helped keep me a reasonably sane undergrad. When things got too weird we’d head for the railroad cafe at the Thistle junction for some pie and coffee.

The town of Thistle no longer exists. In 1983 it was wiped out by a landslide that so blocked the Spanish Fork River that it created a big lake over the town. Here’s a picture of the dam and lake. Thistle is under the water on the left/middle part of the picture. http://landslides.usgs.gov/html_files/landslides/slides/slide3.htm Here is a pretty concise description of what happened: http://www.trainweb.org/utahrails/locales/thistle.html to see the stainless steel cars of the California Zephyr coming out of the Canyon up from Denver in the snow, 100% USA built, on past thousands of sheep on the flat in Winter enclosures, and headed for Salt Lake. I just got to get back to that country someday, visit the Art Museum in Springville

A true treasure of this state. and maybe head on down to Helper in the Utah coal country.

Ah, Helper! I lived in Price from 1977 to 1979 and worked in a coal mine just north of Helper. What great country that is. Price is one of the best places that I’ve ever lived. Great people down there. Russell

Response:

Great story Russell, my best wishes for you. Do yourself a favour wear polarised glasses. That improves your sight in/on the water, but the best point is it protects your eyes. I tell you this, because I hooked my cheek directly under my left eye last time I was fishing. That was painful enough, can

TR: The family goes FFing

admin — Tue, 09 Jul 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

For starters, I have to brag that my youngest ties a darned good GRW. Everytime I sit down to tie, she wants to tie with me, and when I have the time & patience, I teach her a few things at the vise. Sitting on the porch at Moosehead, she got to the point that she could tie a #16 bead head GRW all by herself & have it look as good as mine (faint praise, indeed

Response:

Joe F.:

Response:

For starters, . . .

Response:

Climbed out of the river, & got back to the cabin, where youngest wanted to tie some more flies. Joe F. p.s. Dave, both kids thought you were pretty cool.

ya but what do kids know, eh?

Response:

Old cane fly rod

admin — Wed, 26 Jun 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Bloody horrible tasting,

I’m, surprised……I was told they taste like bald eagle….. and they cost a fortune.. about $5000 if you get caught with one.

….well, about the same price per pound, anyway. Of course the trick is not to get caught with one. hmmm maybe I could start a new franchise business KFK

Too late. Already been done…..they just changed the name. Wolfgang well, ya got yer kaka, and then ya got yer caca……and it don’t taste like chicken to me.

Response:

Wolfgang well, ya got yer kaka, and then ya got yer caca……and it don’t taste like chicken to me.

It may be art, though. From the London Telegraph: —— The Tate values excrement more highly than gold By Catherine Milner, Arts Correspondent (Filed: 30/06/2002) Critics of modern art will at least applaud the irony. The Tate Gallery has paid

Quality

admin — Thu, 02 May 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Phooey. Give me a stick, a length of kite string, a hook, some worms … Well Shit! Just give me a rock and I’ll kill a deer, make a hook …

So you agree with Mike’s point and find daytripper’s detailed and impassioned counterargument to be in error, as I do, or is that whooshing noise the sound of the whole damn thing flying over your head ? — Ken Fortenberry- buy yourself some emoticons, Willi

Response:

or, I don’t need no stinkin’ rock, I can grab more trout with my bare

…six months ago, in a semi-sober conversation, i made a $100 bet with pj – he claimed he would catch more trout on upper snowbird in august by grappling than i would with rod and reel. i bet him just because it sounded like an opportunity to get a good chuckle… but i expect to lose a $100 in the process… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [major snippage] Regarding rods, you can catch just as many fish with a hazel branch cut from the hedge, which costs nothing, … No, you can’t. Phooey. Give me a stick, a length of kite string, a hook, some worms and a twig bobber and I’ll catch MORE trout (or bluegill) than any Winston toting, effete, full-of-himself, Orvis-clad flyfisherman who ever fished a stream or pond. Guaranteed. It is more a matter of personal taste, than of suitability. No, it’s not. Personal taste is ALL it is. The rest is just posturing for dramatic effect. (Not that there’s anything wrong with that .

Hah hah! I’d love to see you and Mike bring your sticks, kite string, etc, out for some bluewater fishing – at least for the 5 seconds it’d take for you to realize that Yet Another Broad Statement has gone down in a flaming Reality Check… /daytripper (hope *that* helps, flatlander.

Response:

[major snippage] Regarding rods, you can catch just as many fish with a hazel branch cut from the hedge, which costs nothing, as with the latest top-notch super-duper "high-modulus" carbon fibre or split-cane fishing rod, for a bag full of money. No, you can’t.

I have to agree here. Just try for pike, mackeral, bonefish, stripers, salmon, and this falls apart. Put in a constraint that we’re working small streams for trout or panfish, and then it’s a different story. It is more a matter of personal taste, than of suitability. No, it’s not. Cheers /daytripper (Hope this helps

Cheered Chas (it did) Fix underscore in address to reply

Response:

It was not designed to insult, upset, or ridicule anybody at all. If it has, then I was just lucky.

Response:

While I agree with much you say, I also believe it’s overly simplistic.

I believe it is always true. One has the desire to catch fish, often in some special way ( dry-fly. nymph, upstream wet, etc etc), but this is inextricably mixed in with many other desires, such as the desire for fresh air, being out in tne countryside, relaxation, general enjoyment, etc etc etc. People should develop into the the type of fihermen they want to be, independent of what others think or say. What I or anybody else "would like to see", assuming this was the case, is completely irrelevant.

One can be extremely proficient, and still catch no fish. One becomes proficient by learning and practicng. How does one know what is successful if they’ve not been successful?

Good point, the answer is basically the same. You can only really "know" something if you experience it. You can only know how Bill Gates feels, if you are Bill Gates. Read and listen to the experts. Cast on the lawn. Do all the things that the lesson plans call for.

I do not agree with this. Go fishing. You will not become proficient until you put everything together and succeed on a consistent basis.

I do not agree with this either. One may enjoy oneself fishing, even if one is a hopeless duffer. Proficiency is not a pre-requisite for enjoyment. It may be for many, but this does not make it a universal constant. Then, and only then, will you be proficient and realize that it’s not really about catching fish.

I think even most beginners are perfectly well aware that it is not about catching fish. As far as rods, sure for worm dunking most anything will do. But that’s where that level of simplicity stops.

I disagree again. A rod is a rod, irrespective of how "primitive" it may be. Nothing else changes. In order to practice some modern techniques, ( long distance casting etc ), then modern rods are indeed required. It is however not necessary to use such techniques when fishing for trout on most streams and rivers, and a "primitive" implement is just as good as the most expensive rod made for this purpose. It has nothing to do with "simplicity" as such. mayfly

TL MC

Response:

It is not really about catching fish. This is of course said time and time again, and occasionally even analysed, but still it is a problem for many. If you just want fish, then go to a professional fisherman, supermarket, fish-shop, whatever, and buy them. If you want to catch large numbers of fish, become a professional fisherman. How many you catch, is less important, at least to a sensible flyfisherman, ( or indeed any other predominantly "pleasure" angler), than how, where, under what circumstances, and with what. If this were not so, then it would be absolutely pointless to go fly-fishing. Fly-fishing is ( in most cases) illogical per se. There are ( at least nowadays, this was not always so), far more efficient, less labour intensive, and far less costly ways of obtaining fish. People do it because they enjoy it, for one reason or another, not because it is efficient. Of course a good flyfisherman will normally consistently catch more fish than a beginner. This is perfectly normal, he is simply better at it! There are no arcane reasons. There are no "magical" flies, rods, or anything else. It is simply a matter of knowledge and application. Somebody who learns as much as he possibly can, and applies this over a period of time, will be better than somebody who just goes out for a Saturday afternoon now and then, after perusing his monthly fishing magazine. Necessary? None of it is necessary. The main challenge, is to become proficient at something which is intrinsically difficult and demanding. This allows many people to forget their woes and worries. They sink themselves in their fishing to the exclusion of all else. Whether this is "sensible" or not, has nothing to do with it. If you do not want something difficult and demanding, then use worms and a bobber. Or stay at home watch TV, and drink beer to reach blissful oblivion. Neither I, nor anybody else can remove the "frustration" of not being able to do some things. Either learn to do them, or give up, and do something else. Constantly moaning that you can not catch anything, is your own problem, and nobody else

Trip Report – Eastern PA

admin — Sun, 28 Apr 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Now imagine that trip with some *real* streamers in your arsenal.

I fish streamers often. I had small Mickey Finns and white/peacock Deceivers with me. But, knowing there were very large fish in the pool, and never having taken one there, I tried the largest fly I had. And it took the largest trout I’ve ever caught. Glenn GKT

Response:

. 15" and 18" browns. Not something to write in a diary, but it worked. Any trout of that size I take on a fly rod will get written in a diary. Pete Collin

Well, me too; I was way too casual in that description. Probably in comparison to the 11 trout someone else caught the day before. For the record, the previous largest trout of my life was a 21" brown on a #16 Goddard Caddis from a pool on this creek. But there are a fair number of long-term holdover trout in the 15" plus range there. Glenn GKT

Response:

Not something to write in a diary, but it worked. Fairly sure I would write that in my diary! TL MC

Well, I did. I apologize for being way too casual. I belittled it in comparison to the 11 fish someone else caught the day before. Glenn GKT

Response:

If I saw a trout big enough to eat a 4" clouser I would write about it. hell, i would leap from the water, terrified. your friend in the old north state wayno where a 4 inch clouser would be damn close to a record.

I did warm my waders when I saw the fish. GKT

Response:

. 15" and 18" browns. Not something to write in a diary, but it worked. Any trout of that size I take on a fly rod will get written in a diary. Pete Collin

Could you improve that remark by just saying "Any?" GG

Response:

After an hour or so of good intentions, I switched to the inevitable Wooly Bugger. Black marabou, peacock herl and silver wire body, black saddle hackle palmer, silver barbell eyes. With the cover of rain, I got next to the dark green channels and high sticked the Bugger through the runs. 15" and 18" browns. Not something to write in a diary, but it worked.

Fairly sure I would write that in my diary! TL MC

Response:

Fairly sure I would write that in my diary! TL MC

If I saw a trout big enough to eat a 4" clouser I would write about it. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

Response:

Fairly sure I would write that in my diary! TL MC If I saw a trout big enough to eat a 4" clouser I would write about it.

hell, i would leap from the water, terrified. your friend in the old north state wayno where a 4 inch clouser would be damn close to a record.

Response:

Thursday 4/25 Paradise Creek off the Brodhead 9:30 to 2:30. Light to moderate rain with an air temperature of 43 to 46 degrees. The day before, someone had taken 11 browns up to 18" on Hendrickson spinners. To quote Dizzy Dean, it ain’t bragging if you can do it. Thursday the creek was up but fairly clear. Rings on every pool but they were made by drips from the hemlocks and sycamores. An occasional microcaddis in the air, but no concentration of bugs in the trees. I checked the streamside and bridge spiderwebs for evidence of hatches but they were generally empty. No shucks on the rocks, though the rising creek might have covered earlier stonefly activity. My fishing partner stuck with a Prince nymph most of the day. It had worked the previous week, so he went over a lot of water giving it another chance. Moderately stubborn type. I changed flys with that fine desperation and lack of intuition which characterizes my approach to tough conditions. If I had thought to bring midge pupa imitations with me they might have been a better bet. I was also trying to avoid retreating to Wooly Buggers. After an hour or so of good intentions, I switched to the inevitable Wooly Bugger. Black marabou, peacock herl and silver wire body, black saddle hackle palmer, silver barbell eyes. With the cover of rain, I got next to the dark green channels and high sticked the Bugger through the runs. 15" and 18" browns. Not something to write in a diary, but it worked. To close out the day, we went to the toughest stretch, Harold’s Pool. My friend went up through all the riffles with the Prince. I drew a very large flash to the Wooly Bugger, but the big fish in that pool see a lot of Wooly Buggers from desperate anglers. I put on a 4" 1/0 chartreuse and white Clouser (barbless) and flogged the depths of the pool. No fun casting with a 3 wt. But the second cast, letting the Clouser swing below me, a trout nailed the fly (ok, it might as well be a jig). And it made the day light up. I horsed it as best I could with the 3 wt. and a 2X flourocarbon leader. And it fought upstream, probably surprised as hell that it couldn’t snap the leader instantly. So in a few minutes I brought a brilliantly colored brown to my feet, popped the Clouser out of the corner of its mouth, and set it free. We took our shivering old bodies to the car, put away our rods, signed out, and headed home with the heater cranked to max. No bugs but not a bad day. GKT

Response:

[snip] We took our shivering old bodies to the car, put away our rods, signed out, and headed home with the heater cranked to max. No bugs but not a bad day. GKT

Now imagine that trip with some *real* streamers in your arsenal.

Response:

. 15" and 18" browns. Not something to write in a diary, but it worked.

Any trout of that size I take on a fly rod will get written in a diary. Pete Collin

Response:

Nice story Arn. It’s hard to maintain the discipline between being a fly fisherman and lures. It’s like walking the fine line between genius and insanity. Fly fishing has driven many advocates mad. Yes, its a mad, mad, mad world! George Gehrke "Mr. Cool"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thursday 4/25 Paradise Creek off the Brodhead 9:30 to 2:30. Light to moderate rain with an air temperature of 43 to 46 degrees. The day before, someone had taken 11 browns up to 18" on Hendrickson spinners. To quote Dizzy Dean, it ain’t bragging if you can do it. Thursday the creek was up but fairly clear. Rings on every pool but they were made by drips from the hemlocks and sycamores. An occasional microcaddis in the air, but no concentration of bugs in the trees. I checked the streamside and bridge spiderwebs for evidence of hatches but they were generally empty. No shucks on the rocks, though the rising creek might have covered earlier stonefly activity. My fishing partner stuck with a Prince nymph most of the day. It had worked the previous week, so he went over a lot of water giving it another chance. Moderately stubborn type. I changed flys with that fine desperation and lack of intuition which characterizes my approach to tough conditions. If I had thought to bring midge pupa imitations with me they might have been a better bet. I was also trying to avoid retreating to Wooly Buggers. After an hour or so of good intentions, I switched to the inevitable Wooly Bugger. Black marabou, peacock herl and silver wire body, black saddle hackle palmer, silver barbell eyes. With the cover of rain, I got next to the dark green channels and high sticked the Bugger through the runs. 15" and 18" browns. Not something to write in a diary, but it worked. To close out the day, we went to the toughest stretch, Harold’s Pool. My friend went up through all the riffles with the Prince. I drew a very large flash to the Wooly Bugger, but the big fish in that pool see a lot of Wooly Buggers from desperate anglers. I put on a 4" 1/0 chartreuse and white Clouser (barbless) and flogged the depths of the pool. No fun casting with a 3 wt. But the second cast, letting the Clouser swing below me, a trout nailed the fly (ok, it might as well be a jig). And it made the day light up. I horsed it as best I could with the 3 wt. and a 2X flourocarbon leader. And it fought upstream, probably surprised as hell that it couldn’t snap the leader instantly. So in a few minutes I brought a brilliantly colored brown to my feet, popped the Clouser out of the corner of its mouth, and set it free. We took our shivering old bodies to the car, put away our rods, signed out, and headed home with the heater cranked to max. No bugs but not a bad day. GKT

Response:

STREAMERS is a very good idea. I would have fished a muddler minnow darting along the bottom with a sink tip. George Gehrke "guessing is better than doing nothing" Now imagine that trip with some *real* streamers in your arsenal.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Loomis Adventure Fly Reel

admin — Wed, 24 Apr 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Hi! Our Adventure reel is well liked by most people and I doubt if we will ever change the color. It matches well with our rods. If you want a black reel, we offer the syncrotech reel that is all black.

Gary Loomis is gone. The company is Japanese owned and operated now. Personally, I favor Lamiglas Fly Rods and have for over 30 years. Of course Gary learned the business from Steve Posey before going on his own. A little known fact of fly fishing history of Woodland Washington. George

Response:

A few people with the Loomis Adventure fly reel have stated that they would like to see it in black. I took the bull by the horns and asked Loomis about it directly. With their permission, here is my question and their response: I have and Adventure reel and find it is the perfect reel for my 4wt Loomis. Question is, when are you going to make the reel in black. I like the matte finish of the rods and would like the reel to match. Frank Reid Hi! Our Adventure reel is well liked by most people and I doubt if we will ever change the color. It matches well with our rods. If you want a black reel, we offer the syncrotech reel that is all black. However, this reel is more expensive. Thanks for using G. Loomis products. Tight lines, Fran Hansen G. Loomis, Inc. 1359 Down River Drive Woodland, Washington 98674 1-800-GLoomis (456-6647) 1-360-225-6516 Not a very good answer, but an answer all the same. Cheers Frank Reid

Response:

Wow. A customer service reply straight out of Dilbert (…you do TOO prefer it our way!). With various manufacturers bending over backwards to provide lifetime warranties and otherwise satisfy the customer, I guess that Loomis’ attitude surprises me. Based upon posts in the ROFF/Google archives, I looked at this reel when assembling my first outfit, but didn’t like the color. I guess that’s not going to change. Thanks for the info. Cheers, Bill – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A few people with the Loomis Adventure fly reel have stated that they would like to see it in black. I took the bull by the horns and asked Loomis about it directly. With their permission, here is my question and their response: Hi! Our Adventure reel is well liked by most people and I doubt if we will ever change the color. It matches well with our rods. If you want a black reel, we offer the syncrotech reel that is all black.

Response:

full sinking line for stillwater

admin — Mon, 22 Apr 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Actually, flyrods are more since that was quoted correctly. Secondary part costs have increased dramatically since the Clinton defascoes and Greenspan screw ups with the economy.

So until you give me a new figure let’s work with a 100% increase on costs over the past four years (although I can’t beleive it should be this high). That still implies a helathy profit of several 100%. You have not used the correct price at all. Most of the fly rods are around $500 – $700.

Check your own website. I clearly stated I was using the MSRP which is quoted at $1620 to $3000. This is the price you expect a retailer to charge for your rods. or did you post a hugely inflated MSRP in order to make your rods appear to be worth more tahn they really are. Surely that would be unethical… George Gehrke "bamboosan" http://www.gink.com George Gehrke "lowest priced bamboo fly rods regardless"

And this is wrong too. Your MSRPs for your product line rods are higher (and in some cases considerably higher) than the price of most handmade rods which, as you have admitted yourself in the past, have higher quality.

Response:

The Cortland "444 Clear Camo" is the most popular here in California, USA, planet earth.

For those in the know (such as my cat) the inter-galactic postal service now requires both "Galaxy" AND "ZIP + AZ + RA" for speedy delivery… K

Response:

Where the fuck are those guys in white coats when you need them? Playing Poker over at Wayne Harrison’s house: Joker’s Wild? Glad to see you’re not brain dead yet by responding to my troll of vulgarity. My apologies for the civilized language. Mr.G. "back to regular casting"

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Actually, flyrods are more since that was quoted correctly. Secondary part costs have increased dramatically since the Clinton defascoes and Greenspan screw ups with the economy. So until you give me a new figure let’s work with a 100% increase on costs over the past four years (although I can’t beleive it should be this high). That still implies a helathy profit of several 100%. You have not used the correct price at all. Most of the fly rods are around $500 – $700. Check your own website. I clearly stated I was using the MSRP which is quoted at $1620 to $3000. This is the price you expect a retailer to charge for your rods. or did you post a hugely inflated MSRP in order to make your rods appear to be worth more tahn they really are. Surely that would be unethical… Whoa, right here ass hole. You don’t know for jack shit the quality of our fly rods. Admit it! Where is your source of knowledge derived from?? Other assholes?

You should learn to read and comprehend and control your infamous short-temper. You are supposed to be a mature adult, so why not start acting like one. I did not say your rods are of bad quality. I asked if they were really worth $1600 to $3000, which are prices commanded by top quality, hand made rods, constructed by gentlemen with many years of craftmanship behind them. You have often commneted yourself that your rods are of porduction line quality, and, while they may or may not be the best production line rods in the world, I find it hard to believe they are of the same quality level as the handmade rods, and therefore worth an equivalent amount. So, I ask you, would you put your rod with a MSRP of $3000 (note, I said MSRP, not "special online price") up against a hand-made rod charged at $3000? Would you gurantee your rod to be of the same quality and standard as that handmade rod? I’ll tell you what. I dare you, if you wish to see a beautiful bamboo to order one and in your case you will pay in advance for a Bastard for a bastard. I will defy you to be able to find fault with it compared to any other bamboo fly rod in the world. Okay, you chicken shit son of a bitch. What say you? George Gehrke bamboosan

I have no wish whatsoever to do business with a man who uses such language and shows such obvious contempt for his "customers". I am very choosy about who I give my money to. Sorry.

Response:

Some people wonder why the hell little bottles of Floatant sell for $20 NZ here…

Is there money to be made smuggling Albolene to NZ? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Some people wonder why the hell little bottles of Floatant sell for $20 NZ here… Clark

You can always order factory direct as ours don’t sell for that there Clark. Even the cost of postage would be cheaper than what it takes you to drive to the store. Your Pal, George

Response:

Some people wonder why the hell little bottles of Floatant sell for $20 NZ here… Clark

Um, isn’t that about 8.00USD? Granted, more expensive than in the US, but considering the costs involved versus the market, that doesn’t, on the face of it, sound so outrageous. Of course, if it’s Ginkle’s Gunk, I can see the basis for your confusion… TC, R

Response:

Rusty? I did an extensive article with drawings on how fly lines are made. The engineering has been paid for long ago and that deals with line tapers mainly. What does change are coatings and finishes. That is all. The process is so simple as to boggle the mind and the cost of making a fly line is indeed one of the lowest in American Manufacturing in the industry. This is why one can readily appreciate HOW a company like Cortland can afford full page ads in magazines. The profit margin is so vast as to be literally obnoxious and unfair. Just like Frog Butt, the fly fishermen of America are NOT getting a square or honest deal when it comes to fly lines. No joke. Fly lines from all the manufacturers are over priced. I mean, WAY over priced! Consider this. A Cortland 333 or 444 could be bought in Wal-Mart here in Lewiston Idaho just a week ago and for several years for the low, Low, LOW price of only $11.57. Would you like to hear the rest of the story? The new (and I wonder about this term as a hype bite) 555 Cortland costs no more to make than any other Cortland Fly Line. If they cost more, okay; I’ll let you increase that factor about what this article is worth. How about .02 Cents? George Gehrke Each of these fly lines all cast the same, believe it or not. It’s nothing to get excited about. Fly lines are expendable and as far as I’m concerned, the 555 should sell for LESS THAN Twenty dollars per line. You know everyone? I keep saying this time and time again. The packaging costs more than what it takes to make a fly line and the labor required is not much at all, but for some odd reason this fact just doesn’t soak in. Fly line companies need to be boycotted if you want to get them back into the honesty game, like it or not. Thing is, it’s all I mainly fish with is Cortland Fly Lines but I use only the fairly priced ones and always will. George Gehrke "Inside Trade Secrets"

Response:

Yep! Clark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some people wonder why the hell little bottles of Floatant sell for $20 NZ here… Is there money to be made smuggling Albolene to NZ? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Yep basically but my point was, even at $8.00 US, for what it is some people just are not in a position to be bitching about how Cortland prices its lines, apart from the obvious factors already pointed out about the engineering and development and manufacture of new lines. Cortland didn’t just find a material used to keep ladies knickers up and repackage it as an expensive fly line. Clark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some people wonder why the hell little bottles of Floatant sell for $20 NZ here… Clark Um, isn’t that about 8.00USD? Granted, more expensive than in the US, but considering the costs involved versus the market, that doesn’t, on the face of it, sound so outrageous. Of course, if it’s Ginkle’s Gunk, I can see the basis for your confusion… TC, R

Response:

My article on how easy it is to put some PVC plastic on a string apart from engineering which has been done years ago and paid for ten thousand times over, machinery that hasn’t changed in fifty years in making the web core and the automated ejection dies that cost a dime a dozen, is long ago paid for. It is just the change of plastic advances. Cortland or S.Anglers all buy the plastics by the thousand pound box lots and it’s cheap. The cost of the plastic coating the fly line you’re using today is about a 1/20th of a cent worth, if that. I know what a fair price for a fly line is and you don’t Clark. I’m telling you that you can make it sound extravagant but it isn’t. The art work on a fly line box is more extravagant than the line, believe that. My point is simple. Fly lines are over priced. George Gehrke The exchange rate where you are is indeed just numbers. You have the same buying power and that is not America’s fault now, is it? How much money is good wages per hour there? A hundred dollars an hour or three dollars an hour?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Rusty? I did an extensive article with drawings on how fly lines are made. The engineering has been paid for long ago and that deals with line tapers mainly. What does change are coatings and finishes. That is all. The process is so simple as to boggle the mind and the cost of making a fly line is indeed one of the lowest in American Manufacturing in the industry. This is why one can readily appreciate HOW a company like Cortland can afford full page ads in magazines. The profit margin is so vast as to be literally obnoxious and unfair. Just like Frog Butt, the fly fishermen of America are NOT getting a square or honest deal when it comes to fly lines. No joke. Fly lines from all the manufacturers are over priced. I mean, WAY over priced! Consider this. A Cortland 333 or 444 could be bought in Wal-Mart here in Lewiston Idaho just a week ago and for several years for the low, Low, LOW price of only $11.57. Would you like to hear the rest of the story? The new (and I wonder about this term as a hype bite) 555 Cortland costs no more to make than any other Cortland Fly Line. If they cost more, okay; I’ll let you increase that factor about what this article is worth. How about .02 Cents? George Gehrke Each of these fly lines all cast the same, believe it or not. It’s nothing to get excited about. Fly lines are expendable and as far as I’m concerned, the 555 should sell for LESS THAN Twenty dollars per line. You know everyone? I keep saying this time and time again. The packaging costs more than what it takes to make a fly line and the labor required is not much at all, but for some odd reason this fact just doesn’t soak in. Fly line companies need to be boycotted if you want to get them back into the honesty game, like it or not. Thing is, it’s all I mainly fish with is Cortland Fly Lines but I use only the fairly priced ones and always will. George Gehrke "Inside Trade Secrets"

"I assure everyone here, you can build the finest bamboo fly rod in the world for less then $50 – $65 dollars. " George Gehrke, 31 December 1998 Quoted _retail price_ on www.gink.com = $1620 Profit = 1620 – 80 = $1540 (allowing for some inflation!) % Profit = almost 2000 %. That’s quite some markup! Note: This is not the "special offer if you buy via the internet price", but the manufacturer’s suggested retail price for a Blonde model. If you want a Black Raven at MDRP of $3000, the markup is closer to 3650 %. It is up to the reader to decide whether these are the "finest bamboo" in the world. What should we think about such high markups? "The more commercial you become the lower the manufacturing costs UP to a CERTAIN point. Then things average out to around $49.95 each. THAT rod is now being sold for $2500! Which is such a con job as to require all of us to march upon Orvis and other Overpricing Fly Rod Manufacturers who are "Over-Charging" and we should slap them silly. " George Gehrke, 31 December 1998 What can we do but agree with this sage advice. The line forms on my right…

Response:

"Rapscallion" YOU! You chickenshit sonofabitch, who doesn’t have the balls to present your own real name dares to challenge me, the God and Ruler of Roff? I’m George Gehrke, the one and only. Who are you. Nothing? George Gehrke "a somebody" And proud of it.

Where the fuck are those guys in white coats when you need them?

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Actually, flyrods are more since that was quoted correctly. Secondary part costs have increased dramatically since the Clinton defascoes and Greenspan screw ups with the economy. So until you give me a new figure let’s work with a 100% increase on costs over the past four years (although I can’t beleive it should be this high). That still implies a helathy profit of several 100%. You have not used the correct price at all. Most of the fly rods are around $500 – $700. Check your own website. I clearly stated I was using the MSRP which is quoted at $1620 to $3000. This is the price you expect a retailer to charge for your rods. or did you post a hugely inflated MSRP in order to make your rods appear to be worth more tahn they really are. Surely that would be unethical…

Whoa, right here ass hole. You don’t know for jack shit the quality of our fly rods. Admit it! Where is your source of knowledge derived from?? Other assholes? I’ll tell you what. I dare you, if you wish to see a beautiful bamboo to order one and in your case you will pay in advance for a Bastard for a bastard. I will defy you to be able to find fault with it compared to any other bamboo fly rod in the world. Okay, you chicken shit son of a bitch. What say you? George Gehrke bamboosan

Response:

For just about any manufactured goods, the cost of raw materials is minor compared to the costs incurred in research and development, manufacture, distribution, and promotion. Basing the "fair price" of a flyline on the cost of bulk PVC is about the same as saying that split-cane flyrods shouldn’t cost any more than 20 or 30 dollars because they are made of little more than bamboo, cork, steel, and nickel. Besides that, there is currently enough competition in the fly line market that I seriously doubt that an artificially high price would last for very long.

This is very true, but misleading and not entirely correct. The general rule of thumb that I have found is that wholesale is roughly half of retail and wholesale is over two times the cost of production. You are basically paying for the manufacturer to make a profit and then the retailer to make a profit. My friend was signed up with several business that had guide programs and I got to see some of the price sheets for Orvis and others. What was costing me $5 (brass beads), he was getting for $1.50 or so. If you knew the mark up on stuff like hackle, fly rods, etc you would shit your pants, which wouldn’t be a problem if you were paying wholesale because you could afford a pair just to crap in. The glasses I wanted that were $150, he could get for $45. Unlike other industries, the mark ups on fly fishing gear is huge. Those that are able to afford it do so. Those that can’t afford it but still want it sacrifice and buy it anyways. Those that can’t afford it buy something that is a good substitute but within their price range. I think the fly fishing industry has basically nickled and dimed us over the years to find the upper limits of what we are willing to pay as consumers and have been very effective at doing so. The few manufacturers that start off at discounted prices eventually join up with the rest and start charging the same as everyone else. Look at rod prices for instance. — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

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Actually, flyrods are more since that was quoted correctly. Secondary part costs have increased dramatically since the Clinton defascoes and Greenspan screw ups with the economy. You have not used the correct price at all. Most of the fly rods are around $500 – $700. Just the ferrules which are all American Made usually are nearly $200 worth. That is not my idea of fair pricing either. Then there are the Agate Guides, snake guides, reel seat, cork, labor. No, we don’t over charge but you sure do know how to blue sky and put things out of context. As a Roffian, you fit right in. George Gehrke "bamboosan" http://www.gink.com George Gehrke "lowest priced bamboo fly rods regardless"

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I know what a fair price for a fly line is and you don’t Clark. I’m telling you that you can make it sound extravagant but it isn’t. The art work on a fly line box is more extravagant than the line, believe that. My point is simple. Fly lines are over priced.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know what a fair price for a fly line is and you don’t Clark. I’m telling you that you can make it sound extravagant but it isn’t. The art work on a fly line box is more extravagant than the line, believe that. My point is simple. Fly lines are over priced. For just about any manufactured goods, the cost of raw materials is minor compared to the costs incurred in research and development, manufacture, distribution, and promotion. Basing the "fair price" of a flyline on the cost of bulk PVC is about the same as saying that split-cane flyrods shouldn’t cost any more than 20 or 30 dollars because they are made of little more than bamboo, cork, steel, and nickel. Besides that, there is currently enough competition in the fly line market that I seriously doubt that an artificially high price would last for very long. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

You make a compelling point and I bow to it. George

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Any opinions on the best full sinking line for stillwater applications? steve haun sioux falls

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Any opinions on the best full sinking line for stillwater applications?

Depends what you require of it. We do a lot of reservoir fishing from boats here in the U.K. We use everything from neutral density (barely breaks through the surface) through to some fairly scary high density fly lines (e.g. Airflo DI7 and DI8). Note that these last named are proper casting tapers, not just lengths of lead core trolling line. If I were to pick only one sinking line, I’d probably choose a 3M Scientific Anglers WetCel 1 intermediate – popularly known here by its colour: the ‘Kelly Green’. It’s a nice line to cast and generally useful. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

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Some people wonder why the hell little bottles of Floatant sell for $20 NZ here… Clark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bill? I went to my favorite or nearest Fly Shop and looked at the Cortland 555 and for $60 Cortland isn’t offering much for something that only cost them .87 Cents to make. Hell, the packaging cost more! I just wish there was more honesty in fly line pricing than what is taking place in America today. These fly lines should not be retailing for any more than about $15 each and this is the truth… The 555 is a new line, and the people who developed it, advertise it, distribute it, etc, all need to get paid. If they sold for only $15, the engineers (and others) currently in the flyfishing industry would move on to greener pastures, or the companies would go out of business. Maybe both. With the kind of fishing I do, and the kind of budget I’m currently living with, the budget lines made by Cortland and SA suit me just fine. OTOH, it’s nice to know that they (and others) are constantly innovating. There is a price to pay for having the newest, slickest line, but judging by the sales of high-end fly tackle, there are plenty of customers who are willing to pay for it, just as there are plenty of others who are willing to stay with the older-generation lines in order to save money for other things. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

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The 555 is a new line, and the people who developed it, advertise it, distribute it, etc, all need to get paid. If they sold for only $15, the engineers (and others) currently in the flyfishing industry would move on to greener pastures, or the companies would go out of business. Maybe both. With the kind of fishing I do, and the kind of budget I’m currently living with, the budget lines made by Cortland and SA suit me just fine. OTOH, it’s nice to know that they (and others) are constantly innovating. There is a price to pay for having the newest, slickest line, but judging by the sales of high-end fly tackle, there are plenty of customers who are willing to pay for it, just as there are plenty of others who are willing to stay with the older-generation lines in order to save money for other things. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

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Hi Steve, We sell most the full sinking weight forward slow sinking clear lines for a lakes. The Cortland "444 Clear Camo" is the most popular here in California, USA, planet earth. Years ago the WF6S type 2, SA or Cortland was the most popular lake line. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any opinions on the best full sinking line for stillwater applications? steve haun sioux falls

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Bill? I went to my favorite or nearest Fly Shop and looked at the Cortland 555 and for $60 Cortland isn’t offering much for something that only cost them .87 Cents to make. Hell, the packaging cost more! I just wish there was more honesty in fly line pricing than what is taking place in America today. These fly lines should not be retailing for any more than about $15 each and this is the truth. I walked into Lewiston’s Wal-Mart to buy some Cortland 444 fly lines for about the same low price of around $15 and this store said that Wal-Mart pulled not only the Cortland Fly Lines and ALL Fly Line brands but the leaders. I no sooner got outside to my electronics center (Pick Up) and called 1-800-Wal-Mart and we had a serious discussion about this issue. Seems their light bulb may have come back on. We will see. George