Question:

Some few individuals prefer to save the cost of a reel and wind the line around their necks instead.  This is said to be a particularly effective method for salt water species like tarpon and sailfish as the large diameter of the neck (relative to that of a common reel arbor) ensures quick takeup of slack line. However, as this method is not widely practicesd (as yet) it is too soon to be certain of its efficacy.  We await your reports.

My understanding is that some individuals actually substitute very fine piano wire for fly line– something about eliminating memory IMR — Scott Reverse first field of address to reply

Response:

Not that I would ever stoop to a Cabela’s Three Forks, but, just for the sake of discussion, what reel would make a good fit? Bugger p.s. Curiosity…

There’s only one choice… http://www.dutchreels.com/triangle.htm /daytripper (Aim high, grasshopper

Response:

Should I try to remove the hook, or just cut the tippet? Bug – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not that I would ever stoop to a Cabela’s Three Forks, but, just for the sake of discussion, what reel would make a good fit? Bugger p.s. Curiosity…

Response:

Some few individuals prefer to save the cost of a reel and wind the line around their necks instead.  This is said to be a particularly effective method for salt water species like tarpon and sailfish as the large diameter of the neck (relative to that of a common reel arbor) ensures quick takeup of slack line. However, as this method is not widely practicesd (as yet) it is too soon to be certain of its efficacy.  We await your reports. My understanding is that some individuals actually substitute very fine piano wire for fly line– something about eliminating memory IMR

Correct.  But in either case the line catches on the ears when the fish is Wolfgang

Response:

Not that I would ever stoop to a Cabela’s Three Forks, but, just for the sake of discussion, what reel would make a good fit? Bugger p.s. Curiosity…

They sell a combo with a Prestige reel for $69. The Prestige is an Okuma Sierra with Cabelas name on it so you are basically paying $30 for the reel, about $5-$10 less than you can find it retail. Here’s a link. : http://makeashorterlink.com/?V66322B12 G.C.

Response:

<snipped educational material Some few individuals prefer to save the cost of a reel and wind the line around their necks instead.  This is said to be a particularly effective method for salt water species like tarpon and sailfish as the large diameter of the neck (relative to that of a common reel arbor) ensures quick takeup of slack line.  However, as this method is not widely practicesd (as yet) it is too soon to be certain of its efficacy.  We await your reports.

<SPLORK! — TL, Tim give a man enough fly line. . . .

Response:

Okay. You fellas have lost me again. What is the logic to putting a $400 reel on a $39 rod?

The basic principle which underlies fly fishing (as most of us practice it at any rate) is that a rod is used to impart a certain amount of kinetic energy to a fairly heavy line which, in turn, then causes that energy to be transferred to a leader and thus to the fly at the end.  The rod and line are then used to maintain some control over the action of the fly which, if all goes well, will entice a fish to impale itself on the hook, at which time the rod and line are used to draw the fish toward the fisher who then either releases it or bops in on the pate and transfers it to a creel or some other receptacle until such time as it is convenient to cook and eat it.  The reel holds the excess line.  Some few individuals prefer to save the cost of a reel and wind the line around their necks instead.  This is said to be a particularly effective method for salt water species like tarpon and sailfish as the large diameter of the neck (relative to that of a common reel arbor) ensures quick takeup of slack line.  However, as this method is not widely practicesd (as yet) it is too soon to be certain of its efficacy.  We await your reports. Reeling with confusion,

Oh, you ain’t seen nuthin yet. Wolfgang

Response:

Okay. You fellas have lost me again. What is the logic to putting a $400 reel on a $39 rod?

You said nothing about logic. You asked for a "good fit." My guess is it fits good. HTH, Russell Bet there are others that will fit as well.

Response:

Okay. You fellas have lost me again. What is the logic to putting a $400 reel on a $39 rod?

Oops…I must have neglected to include one of these     with my original reply.  Handy little things, really.  I find that they can often clarify even the most senseless posts.  HTH. Cheers, Bill

Response:

Okay. You fellas have lost me again. What is the logic to putting a $400 reel on a $39 rod? Reeling with confusion, Bug

Hook, line and sinker, and pole too! — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

Response:

Okay. You fellas have lost me again. What is the logic to putting a $400 reel on a $39 rod? Reeling with confusion, Bug – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not that I would ever stoop to a Cabela’s Three Forks, but, just for the sake of discussion, what reel would make a good fit?  You might want to check out the San Miguel Vision by Ross or Abel’s Super Series.  I don’t think that you’ll be disappointed with either choice.  HTH. Cheers, Bill —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Okay. You fellas have lost me again. What is the logic to putting a $400 reel on a $39 rod?

The logic is that you spent way too much on a reel and you only have $40 to spend on the stinking fly rod….

Response:

Not that I would ever stoop to a Cabela’s Three Forks, but, just for the sake of discussion, what reel would make a good fit?

Ross San Miguel.  Perfect fit for that rod.  

Response:

Not that I would ever stoop to a Cabela’s Three Forks, but, just for the sake of discussion, what reel would make a good fit?

 You might want to check out the San Miguel Vision by Ross or Abel’s Super Series.  I don’t think that you’ll be disappointed with either choice.  HTH. Cheers, Bill —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Not that I would ever stoop to a Cabela’s Three Forks, but, just for the sake of discussion, what reel would make a good fit? Bugger p.s. Curiosity…

Response:

Question:

wish ‘em luck Peter

An article in The Electronic Telegraph, a London e-paper, has an article on the SAS unit.  Also mentioned was the deployment of Tornados to the "little" military exercise in Oman, with about 20,000 people.  I don’t think most people, on either side, are aware of the size of the wave about to break. Wayne to fish is human….to release Divine!

Response:

An SAS group was active for a brief time in South Yemen a few years ago (when there were *two* Yemens – now there is one).  These folks, like most shadow warriors are seldom seen, heard about only in rumor, and you surely wouldn’t want to wake up with them standing by your bed, if you are on the task list. This will likely be the sharpest edge of that terrible swift sword. Tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peter Collin: SAS = ? Special Air Service.  Roots from WWII.  It’s the Kippers’ answer to our SEALS, Special Forces, Rangers, etc.  Damn fine bunch even if they are Brits!  <g Dave According to the Washington Post, they’ve been training in the Pakistani mountains for the past five years and before that, with the Pathan warriors against the Soviets.  If they follow standard SAS ops, most will speak the local language – they’ll concentrate on recon, demolition, and ambush; vectoring in a larger force for the capture and covering it on the extraction.  Then they’ll disappear again and we’ll probably never hear about their contribution. If anyone wants to get an inkling of current SAS ops, check out Andy McNab’s "Bravo Two Zero" about the Gulf War.  An 8 man SAS patrol lead by McNab on a Scud busting mission, was dropped inadvertently in the middle of two Iraqi divisions.  Their mission compromised right from the start, they made a 110 mile escape and evasion to the Syrian border.  One made it, three died (two from exposure) and four were captured at the Euphrates River, the border with Syria.  On the way, it was estimated that they took out over 250 Iraqi soldiers. They were started in WWII by David Stirling, operating in the desert, doing recon and blowing up Rommel’s airplanes and ammunition dumps. The old TV series Rat Patrol was, as is usual for Hollywood, stolen from SAS service history.  The series does give some sense of what their WWII desert ops were like.  Hitler gave orders that any captured SAS soldiers were to be executed immediately as they were too dangerous to be left alive. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

The British SAS were used in the Iranian embassy siege in London a few years ago.  They went in from the roof and balcony and killed all, but one, of hostage takers.  The stroy goes that when they realised one of the hostage takers was hiding among the hostages outside the embassy, they went out to drag him inside to kill him.  Hostages pleaded for his life to be spared. He is serving life in jail. They took out IRA members in Gibraltar, leaving the bodies on the road. There was accusations of a "shoot-to-kill" policy. They turn up in many places where justice, law and order fails to take hold.  For example, an IRA man was found not guilty at the Old Bailey (Central Criminal Court, London) despite overwhelming evidence.  A few weeks later, he was shot dead, along with his mates, in a Northern Ireland churchyard, having just robbed a bank. The SAS are based at Hereford.  Its best to say "Sir" to anyone you speak to in Hereford. Bobby Bewl —

I haven’t seen it mentioned on CNN but the Toronto Sun has reported a fire fight between a Taliban force and an SAS recon patrol. Apparently, they’ve been in country for nearly a week, looking for bin Laden. wish ‘em luck Peter Visit The Streamer Page at

http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

and if you think *they’re* tough, wait ’til they get a whiff of the 24th foot…the south wales borderers.

Any relation to the 24th Yorkshire Foot and Mouth? Bobby

Response:

has long been the unwritten rule that one does NOT write about one’s life in the Regiment

Then this article, in yesterday’s Sunday Times, will not have gone down very well: www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/sti/2001/09/23/stiusausa02023.html "Tom Carew, an SAS soldier who helped turn Afghanistan’s fighters into an effective modern guerrilla force, on the daunting task facing allied troops in the air or on the ground.  My life with the mujaheddin." — Phil Jones

Response:

They were started in WWII by David Stirling, operating in the desert, doing recon and blowing up Rommel’s airplanes and ammunition dumps. I was in high school during WW II, but I remember reading about British "Commandos," which I vaguely recall was a word taken from a Dutch word "commando" used during the Boer War. Was "Commandos " another name for the SAS? vince norris

In WWII, the Commandos were Royal Marines whereas the SAS were drawn mostly from the army and RAF.  The Commandos specialized in amphibious raids while the SAS, as the name suggests, used airborne and overland approaches. There is a Royal Marine version of the SAS called the SBS (Special Boat Squadron) that is even more clandestine than the SAS (and if you ask a Marine – tougher.)  Just to confuse matters, the SAS has a Boat Troop that operates similarly to the SBS while the SBS also operates from naval helicopters.  Both the SAS and the SBS originated in WWII. http://business.thisisnorthscotland.co.uk/Nsco/a/r/m/armedforces/mari… http://www.britains-smallwars.com/main/SBS.htm Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

If there is a reasonably accurate account of the SAS in book form or official history, I woiuld like to add a copy to our Museum’s library.  We currently have a little material from W.W.II North African campaigns in the collection including some Desert Rats material.  Our collection includes significant material from England and Commonwealth counries from both World Wars and the Cold War.  We hold the largest ANZAC collection in the US and need to expand input from the British. Wayne to fish is human….to release Divine!!

Response:

They were started in WWII by David Stirling, operating in the desert, doing recon and blowing up Rommel’s airplanes and ammunition dumps.

I was in high school during WW II, but I remember reading about British "Commandos," which I vaguely recall was a word taken from a Dutch word "commando" used during the Boer War. Was "Commandos " another name for the SAS? vince norris

Response:

Thanks for getting back to us.  BTW, there are a number of regiment histories out there – preferences? Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Thanks for getting back to us.  BTW, there are a number of regiment histories out there – preferences?

One that was semi-officially sanctioned by the Regiment several years ago was "Who Dares Wins" by Tony Geraghty.  It is pretty factual, although obviously just a selection of stuff that can be made public.  Of interest is the fact that Tony Geraghty, an ex-Territorial (Reserve) paratrooper and journalist wrote a book about Northern Ireland only a couple of years ago and got himself arrested for spilling a few too many beans.  His earlier book mentioned above, is pretty accurate up to the Gulf War. There are numerous others, but most are either glamourizing tales of bravado written with an eye to the dollars, or semi-political works that try to make the authors’ pet point. The more accurate books are restricted circulation ones within the SAS Association or Special Forces Club library. There is one by Ken Connor, a long-time member of the Regiment, called "Ghost" I think from memory – it’s not too bad, but he does push his own barrow a fair bit, and has a slightly jaundiced view of things.  Some say he was in there too long.  I had just under 6 years in, and I saw enough to make me appreciate all the good things in life, and also to recognize what’s REALLY important in life as opposed to what society and peer- pressure try to tell us is important.  That’s why I enjoy fly-fishing! (Nifty, cunning return to topic there – heheh — NightStalker Email addy is nightstalker87 at hot(you know).com

Response:

British special forces (Special Air Service) – originated during WW II as a raiding force to fight Rommel’s forces in Africa, and obviously it stuck together.  The man who started it (Stirling) was knighted about 10 years ago I believe.

Just for the record, he was knighted back in the 1980s, and he died in 1991, just a few months before the Regiment’s jubilee (50th) birthday celebrations, which I attended and was marked by a touch of sadness that the founder had not quite made it. — NightStalker Email addy is nightstalker87 at hot(you know).com

Response:

I’m aware that McNab’s book hasn’t received the best of reviews from his former associates, though to the best of my knowledge, the 250 number came from other sources, not McNab.  Having had a former SAS Flt. Lt. as a training officer, I know about their reticence regarding any sort of publicity.  So I wonder whether the regiment’s dislike of the book comes from perceived inaccuracies in the story or the fact that McNab has profited from matters that should not have been made public.

Both.  The inaccuracies are real and grossly exaggerated.  It’s interesting that no mention of these huge body counts was made in the video-taped debriefings of both ‘McNab’ or ‘Ryan’.  And the other reason for the dislike of the books is that has long been the unwritten rule that one does NOT write about one’s life in the Regiment.  It’s for this reason that the two writers mentioned are now persona non grata in the Regiment and its Association.  Mind you – I’m sure they’re crying all the way to the bank…. (Cultural information note to the U.S. contingent in the ROFFian Universe.)  Over the past few decades the British and especially the Canadians have developed the bad habit of viciously tearing down their heros as soon as they’ve elevated them.  While it’s always wise to view claims to heroism with a clear eye, the counter-claims from these sources should be viewed, at the very least, the same way.

Just to balance the accounts a bit – let me just say that several ex- members of the Regiment HAVE written books that are held in much higher esteem than the ‘McNab’ and ‘Ryan’ books, but these are (a) factual, (b) usually limited distribution through the Association, and (c) not glorifying or exaggerating any deeds or misdeeds. Knocking down heroes is a peculiar sport, but in the opinion of most members and ex-members of the Regiment, neither ‘McNab’ or ‘Ryan’ were heroes – they just did a bloody good E + E (escape and evasion) effort, then tried to cash in on this stuffed up patrol and make ‘heroes’ out of themselves. — NightStalker Email addy is nightstalker87 at hot(you know).com

Response:

As a (shhh!) ex-member of the said regiment, back in the 60’s, allow me, as a long-time lurker here, to say a couple of words.  Andy ‘McNab’’s book is hugely exaggerated, especially about the number of Iraquis they allegedly ‘took out’ on the patrol which was a total stuff-up from day one.  There is another book about the same patrol, called "The One That Got Away" by Chris ‘Ryan’ (all pseudonyms) that is even more exaggerated and self-grandising. Now I’ll just fade silently back into "lurker-dom"

I’m aware that McNab’s book hasn’t received the best of reviews from his former associates, though to the best of my knowledge, the 250 number came from other sources, not McNab.  Having had a former SAS Flt. Lt. as a training officer, I know about their reticence regarding any sort of publicity.  So I wonder whether the regiment’s dislike of the book comes from perceived inaccuracies in the story or the fact that McNab has profited from matters that should not have been made public. (Cultural information note to the U.S. contingent in the ROFFian Universe.)  Over the past few decades the British and especially the Canadians have developed the bad habit of viciously tearing down their heros as soon as they’ve elevated them.  While it’s always wise to view claims to heroism with a clear eye, the counter-claims from these sources should be viewed, at the very least, the same way. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

SAS = ?

British special forces (Special Air Service) – originated during WW II as a raiding force to fight Rommel’s forces in Africa, and obviously it stuck together.  The man who started it (Stirling) was knighted about 10 years ago I believe. By the way, at one point Stirling was a POW in Colditz Castle, which was the inspiration for the computer game that "started it all" (yes, a shooter game that preceded Doom) – Castle Wolfenstein.  (There was also a board game called "Escape From Colditz".)  A later version of the computer game was "Spear of Destiny", where a commando was sent in to retrieve the spear that pierced the side of Christ, which was supposedly being kept by Himmler in the belief that Nazi armies would be invincible while it was in their possession (in keeping with his occult leanings.)  "Return to Castle Wolfenstein" is due out this fall, for more Nazi-killing goodness.  Boy is this OT.

Response:

An SAS group was active for a brief time in South Yemen a few years ago (when there were *two* Yemens – now there is one).  These folks, like most shadow warriors are seldom seen, heard about only in rumor, and you surely wouldn’t want to wake up with them standing by your bed, if you are on the task list. This will likely be the sharpest edge of that terrible swift sword. Tom

I was involved in that little lot.  It was in the Radfan mountains in the mid-60s, (1966 to be exact) the mountain range between what was then South Yemen and the Protectorate of Aden, as the Brits were withdrawing from Aden, we were basically covering their collective backsides.  The terrain there was like the flipside of the moon, about 50degrees Celsius by day, and sub-zero at night, with rocks underfoot that could cut through a pair of tough desert boots in no time. Special Air Service.  Roots from WWII.  It’s the Kippers’ answer to our SEALS, Special Forces, Rangers, etc.  Damn fine bunch even if they are Brits!  <g Dave

One small difference of opinion if I may – the SEALs were the USA’s answer to the SAS, not the other way around  The whole idea of Special FOrces, where small teams of highly-trained individuals could wreak more havoc than a company of grunts, originated in the fertile minds of David Stirling, his brother Bill Stirling, Paddy Maine, Jock Lewis, and a few others in 1942. According to the Washington Post, they’ve been training in the Pakistani mountains for the past five years and before that, with the Pathan warriors against the Soviets.  If they follow standard SAS ops, most will speak the local language – they’ll concentrate on recon, demolition, and ambush; vectoring in a larger force for the capture and covering it on the extraction.  Then they’ll disappear again and we’ll probably never hear about their contribution.

22SAS has had a very long involvement in the middle east, and particularly in desert terrain, including Aden as above, Oman (southern area called Dhofar) etc etc, and the regiment was actually started in the northern deserts of Africa in 1942.  They are long-time masters of ‘low- intensity’ campaigns, fighting guerilla tactics and winning hearts and minds as well as using all sorts of means to stay undetected deep behind enemy lines and across borders.  They are primarily a recon and special ops outfit rather than front-line engagement troops. If anyone wants to get an inkling of current SAS ops, check out Andy McNab’s "Bravo Two Zero" about the Gulf War.  An 8 man SAS patrol lead by McNab on a Scud busting mission, was dropped inadvertently in the middle of two Iraqi divisions.  Their mission compromised right from the start, they made a 110 mile escape and evasion to the Syrian border.  One made it, three died (two from exposure) and four were captured at the Euphrates River, the border with Syria.  On the way, it was estimated that they took out over 250 Iraqi soldiers. They were started in WWII by David Stirling, operating in the desert, doing recon and blowing up Rommel’s airplanes and ammunition dumps. The old TV series Rat Patrol was, as is usual for Hollywood, stolen from SAS service history.  The series does give some sense of what

As a (shhh!) ex-member of the said regiment, back in the 60’s, allow me, as a long-time lurker here, to say a couple of words.  Andy ‘McNab’’s book is hugely exaggerated, especially about the number of Iraquis they allegedly ‘took out’ on the patrol which was a total stuff-up from day one.  There is another book about the same patrol, called "The One That Got Away" by Chris ‘Ryan’ (all pseudonyms) that is even more exaggerated and self-grandising. Now I’ll just fade silently back into "lurker-dom" — NightStalker Email addy is nightstalker87 at hot(you know).com

Response:

Ditto Op

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – having read down to bobby’s post…..I’m impressed… john

Response:

having read down to bobby’s post…..I’m impressed… john

Response:

  The series does give some sense of what their WWII desert ops were like.  Hitler gave orders that any captured SAS soldiers were to be executed immediately as they were too dangerous to be left alive. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

        up the empire, peetah!         thanks to the brits from         their friend in the old north state         wayno         and if you think *they’re* tough, wait ’til they get a whiff of the 24th foot…the south wales borderers.

Response:

Peter Collin: SAS = ? Special Air Service.  Roots from WWII.  It’s the Kippers’ answer to our SEALS, Special Forces, Rangers, etc.  Damn fine bunch even if they are Brits!  <g Dave

According to the Washington Post, they’ve been training in the Pakistani mountains for the past five years and before that, with the Pathan warriors against the Soviets.  If they follow standard SAS ops, most will speak the local language – they’ll concentrate on recon, demolition, and ambush; vectoring in a larger force for the capture and covering it on the extraction.  Then they’ll disappear again and we’ll probably never hear about their contribution. If anyone wants to get an inkling of current SAS ops, check out Andy McNab’s "Bravo Two Zero" about the Gulf War.  An 8 man SAS patrol lead by McNab on a Scud busting mission, was dropped inadvertently in the middle of two Iraqi divisions.  Their mission compromised right from the start, they made a 110 mile escape and evasion to the Syrian border.  One made it, three died (two from exposure) and four were captured at the Euphrates River, the border with Syria.  On the way, it was estimated that they took out over 250 Iraqi soldiers. They were started in WWII by David Stirling, operating in the desert, doing recon and blowing up Rommel’s airplanes and ammunition dumps. The old TV series Rat Patrol was, as is usual for Hollywood, stolen from SAS service history.  The series does give some sense of what their WWII desert ops were like.  Hitler gave orders that any captured SAS soldiers were to be executed immediately as they were too dangerous to be left alive. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

SAS = ?

Special Air Service. — Gary (Email address is munged with x’s)

Response:

Peter Collin: SAS = ?

Special Air Service.  Roots from WWII.  It’s the Kippers’ answer to our SEALS, Special Forces, Rangers, etc.  Damn fine bunch even if they are Brits!  <g Dave

Response:

I haven’t seen it mentioned on CNN but the Toronto Sun has reported a fire fight between a Taliban force and an SAS recon patrol. Apparently, they’ve been in country for nearly a week, looking for bin Laden. wish ‘em luck Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Peter Charles: I haven’t seen it mentioned on CNN but the Toronto Sun has reported a fire fight between a Taliban force and an SAS recon patrol. Apparently, they’ve been in country for nearly a week, looking for bin Laden. wish ‘em luck

Damn straight, Peter!  Hope they get him.  Betcha you’re poppin’ some buttons! <g Dave

Response:

SAS = ?

Response:

aka "m-14" …special forces for Britain i believe… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – SAS = ?

Response:

Question:

any good trout streams in and around clifton park NY??? fly fishing is the method i use.

Response:

battenkill river is about 30 minutes east, near the vermont border.  kayadeross creek west of balston spa is about 20 minutes.  au sable river is 90 minutes north.  

Response:

Question:

i snapped the tip off my pm . i brought it back to orvis of boston and they gave me another right then and there.i was shocked still

Response:

Jeff Baker: <<i snapped the tip off my pm . i brought it back to orvis of boston and they gave me another right then and there.i was shocked still Why?  Shocked that they honored their warranty?  Or, shocked that they did not send it back to the factory?  There is much bitching and moaning about Orvis on these pages, but there products are superior and their warranties unprecendented.   Dave LaCourse

Response:

Hi Jeff, I’ve alway found the folks at Orvis to provide good service. Glad things turned out for you. Take care & … tight lines – Al Beatty Whiting Farms – Hoffman Hackle Al Beatty2

Response:

Ditto. I use all brands of stuff and like Orvis just fine. Sometimes guys think buying stuff from Orvis is being a yuppie, meanwhile they buy gear that is more expensive from other manufacturers and think they aren’t being snobs because it doesn’t say Orvis. Viva anything that works including ORVIS, ORVIS !!

Response:

You should have asked for a Trident.

i snapped the tip off my pm . i brought it back to orvis of boston and they gave me another right then and there.i was shocked still

Response:

I can vouch for the Boston store. My father died and my brothers and I divided his flyfishing equipment. I took the waders in to the Boston store while traveling to see if they still had the suspenders, which were missing, and to see if the waders could be altered a little. They said no to both, but steered me to the rack and suggested I pick out a new pair. I assumed it was a version of bait and switch (no pun intended), but was shocked to discover they meant – pick out a new pair. My father was a life long Orvis customer, and I will be too. John Tesar

i snapped the tip off my pm . i brought it back to orvis of boston and they gave me another right then and there.i was shocked still

Response:

John Tesar: Great story, John.  You will see folks on this ng bitch ‘n moan about Orvis, but their stuff is good (if pricey) and they do stand behind their product. Dave LaCourse

Response:

John Tesar: Great story, John.  You will see folks on this ng bitch ‘n moan about Orvis, but their stuff is good (if pricey) and they do stand behind their product. Dave LaCourse

    The Orvis dealers I’ve come in contact with are to a man, pretty good people. Being of sound mind and unsound bank account, most items they sell are regretably beyond my means. I do have two reels which I ordered along with the approprate line and backing. When I received them they were all set up ready to go. The gripes I see on this NG are not about quality or service but about the clothing etc. that are in the Orvis shops. Personally "who gives a rats patooty". If that is what it takes to make a shop fiscally sound, it’s better than a "closed" sign and I can walk on by. When ever I am in an area not close to home I search out an Orvis dealer and buy the recomended fly of the day( usually in threes). I’ve yet to be disapointed.                                                              John Popp                                                         in Sanford Fl.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I can vouch for the Boston store. My father died and my brothers and I divided his flyfishing equipment. I took the waders in to the Boston store while traveling to see if they still had the suspenders, which were missing, and to see if the waders could be altered a little. They said no to both, but steered me to the rack and suggested I pick out a new pair. I assumed it was a version of bait and switch (no pun intended), but was shocked to discover they meant – pick out a new pair. My father was a life long Orvis customer, and I will be too. John Tesar i snapped the tip off my pm . i brought it back to orvis of boston and they gave me another right then and there.i was shocked still

_____ I believe those waders came with a lifetime guarantee.  Yet, you are well taken care of and you should stick with those companies that make you satisfied and happy.  If the Boston Store does that for you, amen. I’d stick with them myself if I used Orvis equipment, under your circumstances.   Mr. G.

Response:

My father died and my brothers and I divided his flyfishing equipment. I took the waders in to the Boston store while traveling to see if they still had the suspenders, which were missing, and to see if the waders could be altered a little.

Please, bury me in my waders…I’ll be a needin’ ‘em. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Response:

Please, bury me in my waders…I’ll be a needin’ ‘em.

Our pleasure. Is next Tuesday good for you? ;^)

Response:

My father died and my brothers and I divided his flyfishing equipment. I took the waders in to the Boston store while traveling to see if they still had the suspenders, which were missing, and to see if the waders could be altered a little. Please, bury me in my waders…I’ll be a needin’ ‘em. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "Guilt replaced the creel…"

_____ Tim?  Consider yourself hugged.  Wonderful reply! Mr. G.

Response:

Please, bury me in my waders…I’ll be a needin’ ‘em. Our pleasure. Is next Tuesday good for you? ;^)

______ As a gentleman, that was uncalled for. Mr. G.

Response:

Please, bury me in my waders…I’ll be a needin’ ‘em. Our pleasure. Is next Tuesday good for you? ;^) ______ As a gentleman, that was uncalled for. Mr. G.

Aw, c’mon Georgie! It was clearly denoted as a rib – even you should be able to pick up on that ;^) /dave

Response:

 Please, bury me in my waders…I’ll be a needin’ ‘em. Our pleasure. Is next Tuesday good for you? ;^) ______ As a gentleman, that was uncalled for. Mr. G.

Aw, c’mon Georgie! It was clearly denoted as a rib – even you should be able to pick up on that ;^) << Hey, if that ‘hole diden’t pick up on the first ), the 2d one won’t do any good.  He probably thinks you’re going to steal one of his ribs.  After all, "denoted" is more than one syllable. Your post was perfect.  Only thing I didn’t like about it was that *you* posted it, not me. <g

Response:

Dave LaCourse,I was just surprised of the fact that Orvis exchanged the rod when I brought it in.I’ve been using Orvis products since 1965,fishing mostly with their cane.That exchange just made me feel good, sort of bringing me back to the good old days,when we thought of a company making products for us to enjoy,never thinking how we’re getting fucked like we or I do these days, J Baker.

Response:

good, sort of bringing me back to the good old days,when we thought of a company making products for us to enjoy, I know the feeling, friend.  They have exchanged a number of things for me, no argument, no explanation on my part.  I don’t like it – they exchange it.  I will continue to do business with them. I have been teased by friends on this NG about wearing Orvis driving shoes and driving gloves and hat, and a doggy bed for my good dawg Charlie.  It’s all in fun (I hope).  Orvis HAS gone the way of a yuppie-provider-store, but they still make fine fishin’ stuff and I will always be a customer. Dave LaCourse

Response:

I have been teased by friends on this NG about wearing Orvis driving shoes and driving gloves and hat, and a doggy bed for my good dawg Charlie.  

And I _do_ like the bed<g. I too like Orvis products. Some of their stuff is fluff, but I have had excellent luck with their fishing gear and have some of their luggage that is probably close to 20yrs old, has been around the world (literally) a couple of times, and is still in great shape. I sure wouldn’t hesitate to buy something just because it had their logo on it, not would I buy something simply because it did. FWIW. — Charlie…

Response:

John Tesar: Great story, John.  You will see folks on this ng bitch ‘n moan about Orvis, but their stuff is good (if pricey) and they do stand behind their product. Dave LaCourse

Hi All, Orvis, L.L.Bean, Patagonia and a few others have the reputation of taking care of their customers. Actually, if given the chance, many manufacturers will do something for you if a product does not last or doesn’t work out somehow. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

Response:

Question:

Any fly as long as it’s big and bright. Don’t tie a complicated fly because pike beat up a fly real quick.  I like to use 10X long streamer flies and cover the tube body or wrapped tinsel body with clear epoxy glue otherwise the pike’s teeth get caught in the body thereby preventing the hook point from penetrating. I like easy economical patterns like Mickey Finns, Red and White, Tri-color. Add flashabou if you want.

Response:

Dave Wilson wrote I’ve been volentered (sp?) to tye a bunch of pike flys for a friend, the only trouble is, What the heck patterns do I tye? If anyone has had experience here please respond.<< Have been doing a fair amount of fly fishing for Northern Pike for about 40 years now. Most important things I’ve learned are that pike will quickly tear up your flies (so doing it cheap is a big consideration) and that large undulating patterns work best. Trying to tie lots of flies cheaply I’ve found that using hooks in the 2/0 to 5/0 sizes with long shanks are the best starting point. I like the Eagle Claw Lazer Shark hooks made for bass fishermen rigging rubber worms the most cost effective. They have a shank as long as very long shank streamer hooks, come out of the package as sharp as you can get a hook and are very cost effective. The sproat is just about perfect. If you go down to your local craft store you’ll find 3" to 4" chicken feathers and marabou feathers sold in bulk for a really low price. I buy them in red and white. I wrap the whole hook shank from the start of the bend back to the hook eye in a single layer of thread wrapped quickly, then I tie in one feather each (approximately the same size) by wrapping over the exposed quill and back 1/2" to 3/4", this double wrap ending just at the hook eye. You can tie in a cone shaped nose if you like, but it’s not needed. Secure with a whip finish and you’ve got a simple, cheap yet highly effective streamer for toothy critters. Fair winds and following seas, Pat in Pawtucket  RI

Response:

I’ve been volentered (sp?) to tye a bunch of pike flys for a friend, the only trouble is, What the heck patterns do I tye? If anyone has had experience here please respond. Thanks in advance Dave Wilson

Big 2/0 red/yellow or white marabou or bunny streamers. Big deer hair or caribou hair mouse patterns with weed guards for top water fishing. I would put 6 to 12 inches of wire leader on them. I am not an expert on the subject but that’s what I have seen. Dan Blanton has a trip to Canada for pike and you might look for his web site for some answers, too. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

Response:

I’ve been volentered (sp?) to tye a bunch of pike flys for a friend, the only trouble is, What the heck patterns do I tye? If anyone has had experience here please respond.  Thanks in advance Dave Wilson

Response:

Question:

Estimates of the survivability of game fish that are caught and then released back into the water range from 10% to as high as 50%.  With mortality rates this high, I feel that the practice of catch and release should be outlawed. The simple fact of the matter is that a catch and keep sportfisherman, who obeys laws concerning catch limits and possession limits causes the demise of far fewer fish than the catch and release fisherman. The person who catches fish only for the fun of it without regard to there value as a food source is not unlike the big game hunter who kills a bull

If you had been flyfishing twenty, well thirty years ago…believe me… you would have second thought about your position.  It seemed ok to keep your whole catch then simply because there weren’t so many fishermen, plus you now unfortunately HAVE to add in the factor of habitat degradation. I look at the whole spectrum and figure on even just a small percentage of the trout caught…being those that have been caught several times, thus saving many trout from being caught that first time. tight_lines, steve d.

Response:

giorgio writes:    Catch and release is technique… Survival is in the very high 90% (I’ll bet I get 100%!!)

That’s right, it’s all those other people, who aren’t as clever as I am, that kill fish.  I can catch fish all day, and never kill even one.  They seem to enjoy being caught.  As I was saying to my wife… Morgan Fairchild, yeah, that’s the ticket…. CQ

Response:

Estimates of the survivability of game fish that are caught and then released back into the water range from 10% to as high as 50%.  With mortality rates this high, I feel that the practice of catch and release should be outlawed. The simple fact of the matter is that a catch and keep sportfisherman, who obeys laws concerning catch limits and possession limits causes the demise of far fewer fish than the catch and release fisherman. The person who catches fish only for the fun of it without regard to there value as a food source is not unlike the big game hunter who kills a bull elk only for the fun of it(or perhaps a set of horns over the mantle.)

Where the heck did you get your numbers? This "estimate" (Defined as an educated guess) is way out of line with data gathered from actual research, which shows mortality on released fish to be lower than 3% with barbless flys, and never even near this 50% even with multi-point, barbed and baited hooks. The "Simple fact" is that those who ignorantly condemn certain practices based on false conjecture serve only to harm the resource they intend to protect, if that is even their true motive. And how, then, would you explain why certain fish can be fooled and released over and over year after year, in the same place? And those beautiful wild Deschutes red-band rainbows that (sadly) have several hook-holes in their jaws a couple of weeks into the famous salmon fly hatch? They would never reach their 14" to 20" typical size even at a 10% mortality rate! Get your facts straight before you start throwing words like "outlaw" around OK? The last thing we (or the fish) need is more misguided legislation!

Response:

Ever notice how people who post messages like this don’t use their name? Hey Mike: I never really though about it, logflyer is my E-mail account name.  But for your information my name is Mike Golden, I live in Idaho and if there is anything else youd like to know about me please dont hesitate ot E-mail me.

I think, Mike Golden (if that is your real name), that where fishing is concerned I already know as much about you as I ever want to. — "…but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States." Article VI, US Constitution

Response:

giorgio writes:       Catch and release is technique… Survival is in the very high 90% (I’ll bet I get 100%!!) That’s right, it’s all those other people, who aren’t as clever as I am, that kill fish.  I can catch fish all day, and never kill even one.  They seem to enjoy being caught.  As I was saying to my wife… Morgan Fairchild, yeah, that’s the ticket…. CQ

I’ve had fish die in my hand or after release so I’d never claim 100% though I’m sure I do far better than 50 oh yeah despite rumours to the contrary I am not married to Nicole Kidman –  my wife sort of looks like her (she smarter too!) 8^) Ralph H "…      the sabbath rang slowly      in the pebbles of the holy streams!" Dylan Thomas, "Fern Hill"

Response:

 Hey Mike: I never really though about it, logflyer is my E-mail account name.  But for your information my name is Mike Golden, I live in Idaho and if there is anything else youd like to know about me please dont hesitate ot E-mail me.

Thanks Mike. Maybe it’s just psychological but I like to think that there is a real person at the other end of a post. When someone doesn’t use a name it seems like they just want to stir the pot, stand back and watch the results. Some people get their kicks from this kind of activity. I share some of your concerns for catch & release fishing but I don’t agree with many of your statements. I practise catch & release regularily, but will I always keep the fish when I have a doubt as to whether it will survive (when legal to do so). I have observed fishermen do not because the fish was "too small" or it means the end of their fishing day or just simply through ignorance. Perhaps some sort of training should be mandatory to obtain a fishing license? (Maybe just a quiz that you must pass?) Any thoughts on this folks? Should we fish a lake or stream that is catch & release because of conservation reasons? Maybe not, but fishers are some of our most active conservationists. Fishing keeps people in touch with aquatic ecosystems and I feel this benefit can outweigh the disadvantages. — Mike Robinson

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -logflyer writes: Estimates of the survivability of game fish that are caught and then released back into the water range from 10% to as high as 50%.  With mortality rates this high, I feel that the practice of catch and release should be outlawed.   Those figures are probably correct if you’re talking about marlin, or if you’re talking about salmonids that are played to total exhaustion, or kept out of the water long enough for a carefully posed picture (arrrgh!).  If you’re fishing for salmonids, bringing them in green, not taking them out of the water, and you’re reviving them correctly, studies have shown that survivability is above 90%, unless water temps are high. A 10% mortality rate is a good, conservative rule of thumb to use when you’re deciding when it’s time to stop for the day. The simple fact of the matter is that a catch and keep sportfisherman, who obeys laws concerning catch limits and possession limits causes the demise of far fewer fish than the catch and release fisherman. Absolutely, if the c&r angler doesn’t limit his catch, but it doesn’t have to be that way.  It’s more relaxing (for me, anyway) to take breaks and enjoy the area than it is to work like hell to see how many dozen fish you can catch in a day, anyway. A modest proposal: C&R shouldn’t exempt you from the ethic of limiting your kill. If the limit is 6 trout, and you’re releasing all the fish you catch, assume that as many as 10% die after release, and limit yourself to a half-limit of fish killed (3 fish), since they are being left behind uneaten (by you, anyway).   This still permits you to land as many as 30 fish in a day.   Another, even more conservative method would be to stop when you’ve released a limit of "keepers."  Landing six nice fish (or whatever the limit would allow) in a day is still nothing to complain about! The person who catches fish only for the fun of it without regard to there value as a food source is not unlike the big game hunter who kills a bull elk only for the fun of it(or perhaps a set of horns over the mantle.) I don’t know if I’d describe fishing as fun; fulfilling would be more accurate. I get something good from the fish I harvest, something equally good from the fish I release, and something else (equally good) from the fish that I can’t (or choose not to) catch. I’d agree that (at least for some) there is an element of trophy hunting, and even gluttony, in catch-and-release.  I no longer photograph live fish, as the time out of water decreases their chance of survival, and always limit my catch, whether I’m keeping fish or not. (BTW, all of the elk hunters I know around here hunt mainly for the freezerful of meat that comes with those horns.) CQ

Charlie ; you’re a blessing to the group! Ralph H " … the sabbath rang in the pebbles of the holy streams!" Dylan Thomas, "Fern Hill" " One man free to love his minute   in the realms of flesh and sun   breaks down more pain than ages   of humane law or lawyers can." Leonard Cohen, " Crying, Come Back, Hero"

Response:

logflyer writes: Estimates of the survivability of game fish that are caught and then released back into the water range from 10% to as high as 50%.  With mortality rates this high, I feel that the practice of catch and release should be outlawed.  

Those figures are probably correct if you’re talking about marlin, or if you’re talking about salmonids that are played to total exhaustion, or kept out of the water long enough for a carefully posed picture (arrrgh!).  If you’re fishing for salmonids, bringing them in green, not taking them out of the water, and you’re reviving them correctly, studies have shown that survivability is above 90%, unless water temps are high. A 10% mortality rate is a good, conservative rule of thumb to use when you’re deciding when it’s time to stop for the day. The simple fact of the matter is that a catch and keep sportfisherman, who obeys laws concerning catch limits and possession limits causes the demise of far fewer fish than the catch and release fisherman.

Absolutely, if the c&r angler doesn’t limit his catch, but it doesn’t have to be that way.  It’s more relaxing (for me, anyway) to take breaks and enjoy the area than it is to work like hell to see how many dozen fish you can catch in a day, anyway. A modest proposal: C&R shouldn’t exempt you from the ethic of limiting your kill. If the limit is 6 trout, and you’re releasing all the fish you catch, assume that as many as 10% die after release, and limit yourself to a half-limit of fish killed (3 fish), since they are being left behind uneaten (by you, anyway).   This still permits you to land as many as 30 fish in a day.   Another, even more conservative method would be to stop when you’ve released a limit of "keepers."  Landing six nice fish (or whatever the limit would allow) in a day is still nothing to complain about! The person who catches fish only for the fun of it without regard to there value as a food source is not unlike the big game hunter who kills a bull elk only for the fun of it(or perhaps a set of horns over the mantle.)

I don’t know if I’d describe fishing as fun; fulfilling would be more accurate. I get something good from the fish I harvest, something equally good from the fish I release, and something else (equally good) from the fish that I can’t (or choose not to) catch. I’d agree that (at least for some) there is an element of trophy hunting, and even gluttony, in catch-and-release.  I no longer photograph live fish, as the time out of water decreases their chance of survival, and always limit my catch, whether I’m keeping fish or not. (BTW, all of the elk hunters I know around here hunt mainly for the freezerful of meat that comes with those horns.) CQ

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Estimates of the survivability of game fish that are caught and then released back into the water range from 10% to as high as 50%.  With mortality rates this high, I feel that the practice of catch and release should be outlawed. The simple fact of the matter is that a catch and keep sportfisherman, who obeys laws concerning catch limits and possession limits causes the demise of far fewer fish than the catch and release fisherman. The person who catches fish only for the fun of it without regard to there value as a food source is not unlike the big game hunter who kills a bull elk only for the fun of it(or perhaps a set of horns over the mantle.) Estimates of the survivability of game fish that are caught and then released back into the water range from 10% to as high as 50%.  With mortality rates this high, I feel that the practice of catch and release should be outlawed. The simple fact of the matter is that a catch and keep sportfisherman, who obeys laws concerning catch limits and possession limits causes the demise of far fewer fish than the catch and release fisherman. The person who catches fish only for the fun of it without regard to there value as a food source is not unlike the big game hunter who kills a bull elk only for the fun of it(or perhaps a set of horns over the mantle.)

Where the heck did you get your numbers? This "estimate" (Defined as an educated guess) is way out of line with data gathered from actual research, which shows mortality on released fish to be lower than 3% with barbless flys, and never even near this 50% even with multi-point, barbed and baited hooks. The "Simple fact" is that those who ignorantly condemn certain practices based on false conjecture serve only to harm the resource they intend to protect, if that is even their true motive. And how, then, would you explain why certain fish can be fooled and released over and over year after year, in the same place? And those beautiful wild Deschutes red-band rainbows that (sadly) have several hook-holes in their jaws a couple of weeks into the famous salmon fly hatch? They would never reach their 14" to 20" typical size even at a 10% mortality rate! Get your facts straight before you start throwing words like "outlaw" around OK? The last thing we (or the fish) need is more misguided legislation!

Response:

Ever notice how people who post messages like this don’t use their name?

Response:

Estimates of the survivability of game fish that are caught and then released back into the water range from 10% to as high as 50%.  With mortality rates this high, I feel that the practice of catch and release should be outlawed. The simple fact of the matter is that a catch and keep sportfisherman, who obeys laws concerning catch limits and possession limits causes the demise of far fewer fish than the catch and release fisherman. The person who catches fish only for the fun of it without regard to there value as a food source is not unlike the big game hunter who kills a bull elk only for the fun of it(or perhaps a set of horns over the mantle.)OR POSTS indefensible trip such as this. If this is your actual thought,

you really and truly should contact any qualified biologist that has monitored catch and release lakes. I think you would have to rethink your position.         Further, If I catch 10 keepers and release them, even with your high mortality rates-which are very suspect-I am hundreds of percentage points ahead of the surviavability rates of those that end up in your fry pan.           I don’t begrudge someone their meal of legally caught and kept fish, and there is a balance to be kept in mind on that point, but  for you or anyone else to begrudge my releasing fish that you might end up having for dinner next week is ludicrous. Enjoy the fishing; return the fish. Jeff O’Donnell

Response:

Where did you get your numbers? The studies that I have read list the survival rate of a fish caught and released on a fly at about 99%. With a spinner, it drops to 90 to 95%. The lowest is with bait because the fish has the opprotunity to take the hook deep in the vital areas. With bait it drops to about 75%. I spend alot of time fishing in the South Platt River, you would be hard pressed to find a harder fished river and much of it is C&R. It is full of some large and very smart rainbow and brown trout, I reciently caught a 24 inch rainbow. If your numbers were correct, there would be no fish in the river.Amen! Further, thos of us that fish the same small waters can track some

fish over a period of two to four years. Enjoy the fishing;return the fish Jeff O’Donnell

Response:

Ever notice how people who post messages like this don’t use their name? Hey Mike:

I never really though about it, logflyer is my E-mail account name.  But for your information my name is Mike Golden, I live in Idaho and if there is anything else youd like to know about me please dont hesitate ot E-mail me.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Estimates of the survivability of game fish that are caught and then released back into the water range from 10% to as high as 50%.  With mortality rates this high, I feel that the practice of catch and release should be outlawed. The simple fact of the matter is that a catch and keep sportfisherman, who obeys laws concerning catch limits and possession limits causes the demise of far fewer fish than the catch and release fisherman. The person who catches fish only for the fun of it without regard to there value as a food source is not unlike the big game hunter who kills a bull elk only for the fun of it(or perhaps a set of horns over the mantle.)OR POSTS indefensible trip such as this. If this is your actual thought, you really and truly should contact any qualified biologist that has monitored catch and release lakes. I think you would have to rethink your position.    Further, If I catch 10 keepers and release them, even with your high mortality rates-which are very suspect-I am hundreds of percentage points ahead of the surviavability rates of those that end up in your fry pan.      I don’t begrudge someone their meal of legally caught and kept fish, and there is a balance to be kept in mind on that point, but  for you or anyone else to begrudge my releasing fish that you might end up having for dinner next week is ludicrous. Enjoy the fishing; return the fish. Jeff O’Donnell

        If you’re ripping the swallowed #4 hook from the guts of the fish while squeezing hard with a dry hand. . . then yes you will kill the fish.         Catch and release is technique: barbless hooks, set in the jaw, released without touching or lifting the fish from the water. And don’t play them ’til they’re "dead in the water" . . . These fish sustain insignificant wounds to the jaw and swim away unharmed. Survival is in the very high 90% (I’ll bet I get 100%!!)

Response:

What species of fish are you talking about? Is this just salmonoids or are you applying your rules to tarpon, bonefish, fresh water catfish, etc? Just curious. Charlie…

Response:

Estimates of the survivability of game fish that are caught and then released back into the water range from 10% to as high as 50%.  With mortality rates this high, I feel that the practice of catch and release should be outlawed.   The simple fact of the matter is that a catch and keep sportfisherman, who obeys laws concerning catch limits and possession limits causes the demise of far fewer fish than the catch and release fisherman. The person who catches fish only for the fun of it without regard to there value as a food source is not unlike the big game hunter who kills a bull elk only for the fun of it(or perhaps a set of horns over the mantle.)

Response:

Where did you get your numbers? The studies that I have read list the survival rate of a fish caught and released on a fly at about 99%. With a spinner, it drops to 90 to 95%. The lowest is with bait because the fish has the opprotunity to take the hook deep in the vital areas. With bait it drops to about 75%. I spend alot of time fishing in the South Platt River, you would be hard pressed to find a harder fished river and much of it is C&R. It is full of some large and very smart rainbow and brown trout, I reciently caught a 24 inch rainbow. If your numbers were correct, there would be no fish in the river.

Response:

survivability of game fish that are caught and then released back into the water range from 10% to as high as 50%.  With mortality rates this high, I feel that the practice of catch and release should be outlawed.<< If that were in fact the case I’d agree with you. Fortunately there was a good study in MI two years ago or so that indicated that if fish were properly handled and released then mortality rates in the very low single digits could be expected. After this study was published Paul Burgess at Airflo in the UK sponsored a study that had similar results. If I’m not mistaken a PA study also showed similar results. Methinks the bottom line is that if a fish is brought in as soon as possible rather than being played to death, is kept in the water, handled gently with wet hands and properly revived, then released, mortality can be very low. I keep lots of panfish and the occasional trout for the skillet, but C&R has been proven effective as a tool for better management of a declining resource in a time of increased fishing pressure. All this chest thumping by those opposed to C&R was entertaining for a while, and hopefully gets the attention of those who would force C&R as a religion down the throats of everyone. Just the same the entertainment factor has worn off, the chest thumping of those who want to stick their heads in the sand and pretend C&R is not a good management tool is just so much schlock, and the debate now sounds like what you get listening to both sides of either the abortion or gun debates in the U.S. with everyone talking, but no one really paying much attention. Fair winds and following seas, Pat in Pawtucket  RI

Response:

Estimates of the survivability of game fish that are caught and then released back into the water range from 10% to as high as 50%.  With mortality rates this high, I feel that the practice of catch and release should be outlawed.   The simple fact of the matter is that a catch and keep sportfisherman, who obeys laws concerning catch limits and possession limits causes the demise of far fewer fish than the catch and release fisherman. The person who catches fish only for the fun of it without regard to there value as a food source is not unlike the big game hunter who kills a bull elk only for the fun of it(or perhaps a set of horns over the mantle.)

Logflyer,     Where did you get those stats, they are much lower than those reported in the literature ? I have ( read) numbers for flyfishing in the 90 – 99 % range.     I do think you are being unfair about the C & R / gamehunter analogy. Most fisherman I think practice C  & R to selfishly conserve the resource so they (we) can go back and catch them again, quite unlike the Big-game hunter. If your stats are correct, and it is a reputable scientific study then we should rethink C & R because we are fooling ourselves. But  "gamefish" is a rather large generic. Does your info break out fish species, angling methods, etc. with an                                                                                           Jody – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Estimates of the survivability of game fish that are caught and then released back into the water range from 10% to as high as 50%.  With mortality rates this high, I feel that the practice of catch and release should be outlawed.  

virtually all published studies indicate that release mortalities with artificial lures range from less than 4% (BC STEELHEADS) to no more than 10 or 12 %. Bait produces mortality of 15 % or higher on some salmonids. Experience with many catch and release fisheries including those under very heavy fishing pressure is that fish populations stay high or increase What studies or information are you using? What terminal tackle choices are you inferring are being used? DH

Response:

logflyer, For some reason your logic isn’t fiting for me.  As much as I fish here in Montana and kept all the fish I caught during the season and all my freind did it also  100% of the fish would be gone and we all’d be eating Trout everyday to keep possesion limits legal. If I kill 50% of the fish I land that’s better than 100% taken. My freind like that, expecially if it’s a big spawner. If my logic has flaws please explain more I’m always open to new logic. Lar’s – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Estimates of the survivability of game fish that are caught and then released back into the water range from 10% to as high as 50%.  With mortality rates this high, I feel that the practice of catch and release should be outlawed.   The simple fact of the matter is that a catch and keep sportfisherman, who obeys laws concerning catch limits and possession limits causes the demise of far fewer fish than the catch and release fisherman. The person who catches fish only for the fun of it without regard to there value as a food source is not unlike the big game hunter who kills a bull elk only for the fun of it(or perhaps a set of horns over the mantle.)

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: I’m looking for some good quality rod blanks.  I have never built a flyrod so I don’t want to start with an expensive blank but if the job is successful I want a pretty good one.   thanks—knack Whitehouse, TX Hi NOTE: Combined posting for clear thread You might try Clemens, 444 Schantz Raod, Allentown, PA.  They have fly rod blanks from inexpensive to very expensive. I second that, they have discounted close-outs that they sell by the $/foot. Ask for their latest rod blank flyer. Don Burns

can senr info on all blank mfg. in U.S

Response:

I’m looking for some good quality rod blanks.  I have never built a flyrod so I don’t want to start with an expensive blank but if the job is successful I want a pretty good one.   thanks—knack Whitehouse, TX

Response:

I’m looking for some good quality rod blanks.  I have never built a flyrod so I don’t want to start with an expensive blank but if the job is successful I want a pretty good one.   thanks—knack Whitehouse, TX

Hi You might try a Sage second. I think the River’s Edge still has a few and they are reasonably priced. 406-586-5373 Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

Response:

I’m looking for some good quality rod blanks.  I have never built a flyrod so I don’t want to start with an expensive blank but if the job is successful I want a pretty good one.   thanks—knack Whitehouse, TX

I would suggest you consider the St. Croix, Pac Bay, or (slightly more expensive) the Powell blanks.  You may also be able to find a shop that has some blems that may be ok if you have  chance to look at them carefully. Lyman Lyman G. Hughes Dallas, TX Ennis, MT

Response:

writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m looking for some good quality rod blanks.  I have never built a flyrod so I don’t want to start with an expensive blank but if the job is successful I want a pretty good one.   thanks—knack Whitehouse, TX Hi

NOTE: Combined posting for clear thread You might try Clemens, 444 Schantz Raod, Allentown, PA.  They have fly rod blanks from inexpensive to very expensive. I second that, they have discounted close-outs that they sell by the $/foot. Ask for their latest rod blank flyer. Don Burns

Response:

Question:

  I am planning to do a great deal of fly fishing in the Kananaskis region this summer.  I would like some tips on some great fishing holes in and around that area.  Is there any places to catch Artic Gralying in the southern part of Alberta?

Response:

In article   I am planning to do a great deal of fly fishing in the Kananaskis region this summer.  I would like some tips on some great fishing holes in and around that area.  Is there any places to catch Artic Gralying in the southern part of Alberta?

Good luck flyfishing the Kannanaskis River. TransAlta has turned off the flow completely in order to replace generators in the Pocaterra Dam on the Lower Kannanaskis Lake.This has completely de-watered a growing stretch (5 kilometres 2 weeks ago) and has destroyed spawning redds and habitat.Maybe you could call the Park office and inquire about it. There really isn’t much unless you try the headwaters of certain tributaries, or head to the Spray area, or south over the Highwood. The Upper Bow has its moments! As for grayling, Big Iron Lake is the only place in southern Alberta that has them as far as I’ve heard. Any reports I’ve heard have been positive. Dan Bell, Upper Bow Flyfishing Co. Banff Alberta.

Response:

George: I’ll be spending a week in Kananaskas this July, looking for hungry trout. Can’t wait! You may want to contact some local guides, like Marcus Perron of Rocky River Outfitters in Calgary. He offers, among other things, a float trip on the Bow River and he can send you info on what to expect. Good luck! Bill Fowler Birmingham, AL

Response:

Question:

I fished the N. Fork Saturday and found only Smallmouth Bass. Really good ones, too, but no trout. Water was gin clear and warm.  I fished the Yankee Jim access east of Colfax.  Got buzzed by a Timber Ratltler, saw some homeless-types panning, and generally was disappointed. Am I selling this river short?  Is there beter action upriver around Mumford Bar, and if so, how is the access? It seems like it could be a good resource and I know a portion of the river has Wild Trout status. Any info would be greatly appreciated. John Wallace

Response:

Hi John- The N.Fork American is a neat river. As you found out, there are some nice smallies out of Colfax. In the fall and early summer you’ll find rainbows and browns up and down the system as far as Lake Clementine. As the water warms the trout move upstream, into the springs, or into the deeper waters of the lake.      To get into consistant (small but plentiful) summer trout you’ll have to hike in at one of the trails near Royal Gorge or get permission to access the river at The Cedars just south of Donner Summit (drive down the dirt rd past Serene Lakes and ask at one of the cabins.    The timber rattle snake you saw is really a north pacific rattler. They do bite but generally go out of their way to avoid you. Don’t bother ‘em, they belong here (the browns and smallmouth don’t!).    Wild waters, Ralph Cutter —

Response:

Question:

Chalk up another vote for Cargill Creek.  The shop I work in takes groups down every year in November – best time to go – and organizes trips for others at any other time.  Owner and manager are good friends with Millie and Joe.  Both have caught world class bones and have some kind of sixth sense about dem bones.  Call John or Wayne at The Troutfitter (Wayne’s is featured in a picture for Andros Island bonefishing, I think for a new Orvis ad) 315-446-2047, Syracuse, NY. Tell them Tom got you onto them through the computer (they still don’t believe this stuff is for real).  If nothing else, they will be a great source of information (John’s flies are also somewhat magic).  The trips we organize average about $2500 for a week (including, room, board, food, and guides daily – either wading the flats, poling through the back cays, or both).  John’s brother is also down there guiding full-time.  Another good person to look up if you go, and I hear his lobster/conch stew is pretty tasty.  Also, if you’re interested in Montana, these guys can provide the same information/assistance or put you on the spring creeks.  Unfortunately, their spring creek and bonefish trips are usually booked a year in advance.  Give it a shot, if you want, I’ll snail mail you some literature.  Email me back with an address or again, call the shop, they’ll be glad to set you up and get you on their trip mailing list. Best of luck, Tom Carroway

Response:

Path:

interramp.com!psinntp!cmcl2!yale.edu!yale!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newshost.marca m.co
m!insosf1.infonet.net!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.ne t!cs
utexas.edu!uunet!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 12
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
<Can anybody give me recommendations on guides/lodges for bone fishing in
<the Bahamas.  We have a group of four that would like to go down there
<this spring.  What can we expect to pay for  a decent guide with our
<without lodging?  Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I stayed one week last July at the Great Abaco Bonefishing Club at Great Abaco. This particular destination has been featured in a few of the flyfishing magazines lately (Fly Fishing in Salt Waters Jan/Feb.’95 and Fly Fisherman March ‘95) so I won’t go into any details. As a whole, our group was pretty pleased with our stay…great lodge, good food, relatively experienced guides and some beautiful water. This is not a place to go for large numbers, but the average size was good (3-4 lbs) and we did catch some larger bones (at least I found them large) up 7-8 lbs. On a more general note, I can recommend a monthly newsletter I’m subscribing to called The Angling Report published by Don Causey out of Miami (305 670-1918). This newsletter covers flyfishing destinations worldwide, although with more emphasise on the US. The material is based on reports from subscribers as well as independant writers. This is the only publication I’ve come across that really tells you both "the good" and "the bad", where to go and even more important where not to go. Tight lines! Inge Solberg Houston, Texas

Response:

Can anybody give me recommendations on guides/lodges for bone fishing in the Bahamas.  We have a group of four that would like to go down there this spring.  What can we expect to pay for  a decent guide with our without lodging?  Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Response:

<Can anybody give me recommendations on guides/lodges for bone fishing in <the Bahamas.  We have a group of four that would like to go down there <this spring.  What can we expect to pay for  a decent guide with our <without lodging?  Any help would be greatly appreciated. Try Andros Bonefishing Club or Cargill Creek on Andros. Fishing for a week with guides and room and food is about $1800-$2000. Good luck Dave

Response: